Sean Hannity Show - Michael Cohen and Media Amnesia - 11.29

Nov. 29, 2018 - Sean Hannity Show

01:44:24

Michael Cohen and Media Amnesia - 11.29

Cohen takes a plea deal on accusations unrelated to Trump; Special guest Jerome Corsi Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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	Wow, what a newsday.
	There is so, so very much to get to, so little, so little time, and we're going to get it all in, I promise.
	So I had Roger Stone and Jerome Corsi on Hannity last night, and I didn't have enough time with either of them.
	And we had Roger on yesterday.
	We ended up keeping him for the hour.
	We have Jerome Corsi book for a half hour coming up one hour from right now.
	And what we are witnessing and watching unfold should put real, and listen, this is not hyperbole in any way.
	It should put real fear in the hearts of law-abiding Americans.
	And I want you to understand where I'm coming from on this.
	You know, because I've been saying this is the biggest abuse of power.
	This is the biggest corruption scandal in our lifetime.
	And it is.
	And I've been saying there's no equal justice under the law.
	And there's not.
	And I've been saying there's no equal application of our laws.
	And there's not.
	And I'm going to go through this systematically and somewhat, you know, with probably more details than you want or need.
	Some of it might be a little repetitive and things that you have gotten to know because we have covered the double standard a lot because it's been so important and so necessary.
	And I just think, you know, let's start with the Michael Cohn news just for one today.
	And, you know, Michael Cohn goes to court and he pled guilty to lying to Congress about the Moscow project.
	Do you know this Trump Moscow project had been exhaustively discussed, exhaustively talked about.
	Nobody, this is what Donald Trump does, well, did, and this is what he did for a living.
	He built buildings.
	He sold his name rights on buildings based on certain conditions and profits and investments.
	I don't, you know, this is what built Trump into who he is today.
	This is what his business is.
	Anyway, it's a nine-page following, lays out a litany of lies that Michael Cohn admitted that he told congressional lawmakers about the Moscow project.
	You know, it's sad to me on one personal level.
	I know Michael, he's got a wonderful family.
	I can't imagine the pressure this guy is under.
	I'm not sure who's advising him in any way, shape, matter, or form, but it doesn't look good to me.
	And I will tell you, the most amazing thing is, and this is what we're going to get into with Corsi.
	And you can see this with the Flynn case.
	And you can see, you know, in the Manafort case, and you're seeing it over and over again.
	And what really is concerning me is like, if you say this, we're going to go easy on you.
	If not, you might die in jail.
	That's pretty much what Jerome Corsi was offered from the special counsel.
	Okay.
	He, now, again, I have no way to corroborate, but I know he handed over every single thing he had to the special counsel.
	He'll give us the details later.
	He handed over his computers.
	He handed over his notes.
	He spent 40 hours with the special counsel.
	He's 72 years old.
	He admits he didn't remember all of the emails from two years ago, and his recollection did not match up to certain emails, but the contents of which are, you know, if you believe him and he says he never met Assange, never met, never talked to Assange, never talked to anybody that works at WikiLeaks.
	And that means whatever, again, Wikileaks, to me, this is beginning to seem like a Pentagon's paper case all over again.
	And it's going to be fascinating because everything Wikileaks published as it relates to these emails with the DNC and Podesta, et cetera, well, all this was printed by the New York Times and other news outlets all over the place.
	So in other words, the question is going to be, well, if it wasn't Wikileaks doing the hacking, just like in the Pentagon paper case, that means they got information.
	Maybe if it was stolen, like in the Pentagon Papers case, and by a 6-3 decision, yeah, the New York Times has found that they have every right to print it.
	So let's just make an assumption here that, okay, Wikileaks got it from a source.
	Now, when I interviewed Assange, I asked, was it Russia?
	Was it anybody associated with Russia?
	No.
	Okay, let's just for the sake of assumptions here.
	So if Corsi is telling the truth and Stone is telling the truth, I have no reason at all to doubt them.
	I don't know.
	I assume by now that if there was any contact, absolutely they would have figured it out in the special counsel's office.
	So, you know, they can't say something like that that's not true because that's simply, it's easily provable.
	And so assuming that's all true and this big DNC email dump comes out, ends up Debbie Wasserman Schultz gets fired, all the revelations in there without rehashing them all.
	And then, you know, everyone was speculating, but what else do they got?
	They got that.
	What else did they get?
	Nobody knew.
	But the one sticking point, it was on or around July 25th.
	This is one from Roger Stone, an email to Corsi, and the subject line is, get to the founder of Organization One.
	All right, Organization One, we now know to be Wikileaks.
	And then the body of the message, the email, said, get to the founder of Organization One, Wikileaks, at the Ecuadorian Embassy in London and get the pending Organization I emails.
	They deal with the foundation, allegedly.
	Now, here's what's fascinating about that.
	I read that to mean the Clinton Foundation.
	And I don't remember.
	I don't even remember.
	I didn't even read that.
	You can't, no one has the time to go through all this stuff.
	I guess they're talking about the Clinton Foundation.
	And I don't even think that's what it was about.
	This was John Podesta's emails at that point.
	Whether he had any input into that is neither here nor there.
	The Pentagon Papers case is fascinating because here you have stolen materials dealing with military issues and published the New York Times, Washington Post, they go to court, they want to publish it.
	They didn't steal it.
	It was a source that gave it to them within the government.
	And the court was very clear they have a right to publish it.
	So for the sake of assumption, let's say somebody, I don't know, listen, Hillary's email server could have been hacked by anybody.
	We believe the first draft of Comey Instructs exoneration that they were writing in early May before they actually interviewed Hillary and 16 other people.
	They talked about five or six foreign intelligence services having hacked into her email in that mom and pop shop bathroom closet.
	And yeah, there was classified and top secret information there.
	And all of that is a felony and a violation of the Espionage Act.
	You know, we've identified about 18 crimes she probably could have been charged with, but the fix was in.
	And the guy that interviewed her, Peter Strzok, you know, he's the guy that thought, well, she should win $100 million to zero, that Trump shouldn't get a single vote.
	So they write the exoneration in early May.
	They don't interview her till July.
	Three days later, they exonerate her, even though Comey gives a 13-minute diatribe about how everything that she did is wrong, except just changes the words from, you know, extreme carelessness, you know, versus whatever reckless disregard, whatever it happened to be.
	And she gets off scot-free.
	Now, I can literally read verse and chapter.
	I don't know where in my papers I put this.
	I'm really frustrated with myself.
	I got so much information here.
	But all the people, if you can print out what Ethan said to me earlier, James, and then bring that in.
	Oh, you have it.
	Oh, you're such a good guy.
	All right.
	Let's look at this.
	What about all the top Clinton aides that lied to Congress?
	Because that's what Michael Cohn.
	You know, Cheryl Mills, Uma Abedeen faced legal consequences, misleading statements.
	Let me play James Comey.
	Listen to this tape we've got.
	This is gold.
	This is James Comey admitting, well, good people lie.
	I lie.
	And Andrew McCabe lied, but it doesn't mean he's not a good person.
	Think of it through the context.
	The only person that I know at all, you have Loretta Lynch, you have James Comey.
	Loretta Lynch implied Comey lied about being cornered over calling the Clinton investigation a matter.
	There are a couple of issues involving Lynch and lying.
	A federal judge was shocked.
	Clinton aide got immunity by the DOJ.
	She apparently accused of lying.
	McCabe did lie.
	Then you've got a list of other people.
	You know, Eric Holder, Lois Lerner, James Clapper, Brennan, all of them.
	Clapper committed perjury.
	Only person that ever gets in trouble is, oh, Michael Cohn.
	Listen, he admitted it.
	That's whatever.
	What about all these other people that lied?
	Listen to Comey's.
	You see, if you're in the club, you're in the swamp, you're in the sewer, and you tell lies, it's okay because you're really just otherwise a good person.
	Only people that, you know, just like if you took, had subpoenaed emails and you decided to delete them and you decided to use Bleach Pit, nobody ever heard of the stupid thing, best promotion that Bleach Pit ever got in their life, and you acid wash your hard drive with Bleach Pit, and you erase any chance of recovering the emails, and you have somebody bust up your devices with hammers and remove SIM cards, then you hand them to the FBI, you know, you're going to jail.
	This is why, this is where you should be so worried and concerned today for your country.
	Because we have a dual justice system, one for them and one for the rest of us.
	And the idea that there's telling Jerome Corsi, and he'll tell his own story in his own words today.
	You tell us this is what he said to me on TV last night.
	They were telling him what they wanted him to say and saying, you probably won't even get probation.
	We will go easy on you.
	It's like Sammy the Bull Gravano.
	19 murders, but because he gave up higher-ranking people in the mob like John Gotti and testified against them, no jail time, witness protection program, new house in Arizona.
	We're going to be able to bribe people for their statements, and that's what's so stunning.
	Of course, he's saying, I'm not going to lie for you.
	I can't.
	I can't swear before God and lie.
	I thought that's what we want in our justice system.
	But maybe he's not one of the good, quote, liars like Jim Comey and Andrew McCabe.
	Listen to this.
	Do you think the future of the FBI is transparency?
	I think it has to be a huge part of the FBI because public confidence in the FBI is its bedrock.
	We have to show people our work when we can, as often as possible, so they have confidence in us.
	Even if that means your second in command was fired for lying four times.
	So this is where I think the confusion comes from.
	Your second in McCann in command, McCabe, was fired for lying multiple times within the FBI.
	You defended his character on Twitter.
	That's okay.
	Lying is okay internally.
	No, it's definitely not.
	In fact, the McCabe case illustrates what an organization that's committed to the truth looks like.
	We investigated, hold, I ordered that investigation.
	We investigated and hold people accountable.
	Good people lie.
	I lay out on the book, I think I'm a good person where I've lied.
	I still believe Andrew McCabe is a good person, but the Inspector General found that he lied, and there's severe consequences in the Justice Department for lying, as there should be throughout the government.
	I didn't see him plead guilty to a felony.
	And the one guy that the FBI didn't think was lying, 30 plus years of service to his country, General Flynn.
	He didn't, nobody, Stephen Peterszzok and James Comey didn't think he lied.
	But he was told, listen, sign this, admit to it.
	I know you're broke.
	You can't afford your lawyers.
	You got to sell your house.
	It'll all end here.
	Oh, and if not, we're probably going to have to investigate your kid.
	He worked with you.
	I suspect as a good father, he dove on the sword.
	This is dangerous.
	Really, really dangerous.
	We're shredding the Constitution before your very eyes.
	It's happening.
	We don't have equal justice under the law.
	We don't have equal application of our laws.
	We have a dual justice system.
	You're seeing it.
	There are so many reasons to be a grateful nation, and in large part, we have our military and our veterans to thank for our liberties and freedom.
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	All right, so the big difference is Michael Cohn said, well, he said that the Trump-branded tower in Moscow negotiations ended in January 2016.
	And then he said, but it actually went through June of 2016 and that he briefed the president on more than three occasions about what if he built it?
	It's not a crime.
	You know, if you look at what's happening here, Manafort, okay, they had a plea agreement.
	They've got a cooperation deal.
	That's now gone.
	Then you got Jerome Corsi who's going to join us at the top of the next hour.
	Mark Penn said it really, really well in a brilliant piece in the Hill today, dissecting this whole Mueller investigation, a case-by-case analysis, just how weak Mueller's case is.
	And really, what he's saying is, is that Mueller is now flailing.
	Mueller is now desperate.
	Mueller is, if it's going to come down to one meeting at Trump Tower, no information gathered by all people, by all accounts of every person in the room, every single person.
	Or did he really know about that?
	And by the way, if you tell us, we're going to give you a sweet deal.
	Otherwise, we're going to let you die in rotten prison.
	You're 72 years old.
	But you look at these last minute, this overreach and this perjury traps.
	Flynn, now it's, you know, they're literally feeding Corsi what they want him to say.
	And he's saying no.
	They're feeding Manafort what they want him to say.
	He's saying no, I'm not going to lie.
	And, you know, just keeps raising, you know, anything that he can mention the word Russia.
	They talked about building a Trump building.
	It was published everywhere in Moscow.
	What they're trying to do is bludgeon and pressure and the Sammy, the bull Gravano people.
	You give us what we want.
	You get off scot-free.
	A get out of jail free card.
	You get your life back.
	That's what's going on here.
	There's a sign of desperation, but it should scare everybody.
	More importantly.
	Now that we made some money for our sponsors, let's go back to making the liberals crazy.
	The handman is back on the radio right now.
	All right, 25 till the top of the hour, 800-941, Sean, Jerome Corsi, at the top of the next hour.
	Then we have Geraldo.
	And, you know, Geraldo's a lawyer.
	People forget that.
	And Jonathan Gillum are going to check in today.
	The latest on the caravan that's grown and grown like we told you.
	And it's a big problem.
	A lot of stories out today about serious, significant health issues, sadly, among those that have made this long journey.
	And I mean, we're talking about tuberculosis in some cases and worse.
	I mean, it's just, I don't even want to go through it because people say, well, you're just picking on people.
	No, I want them to get the medical care they need.
	Just the opposite.
	And I hope I can see doctors going to help.
	You don't want people sick, especially, you know, people come from such poverty, they don't have any help.
	It's terrible.
	By the way, the Senate bill to protect Mueller goes down to defeat the president.
	How many times does the president have to say he's not stopping Mueller?
	And the media just wants it.
	Here's something fascinating.
	I'm going to pay very close attention to this.
	Mainstream media polls have basically said, you know, Trump's approval rating low, low.
	He could never win reelection.
	Now, remember, 69 seats lost by Obama in his first midterm, 60 seats by Clinton.
	Clinton lost eight Senate seats, 52 House seats.
	Obama lost six Senate seats.
	And what was that?
	63 House seats.
	And Trump gains two House seats and literally goes to fight to save DeSantis.
	Rick Scott helped Marsha Blackburn helps Josh Hawley helps Braun in Indiana.
	Heidi Heitkamp's out.
	Claire McCaskill's out.
	Donnelly's out.
	Nelson's out.
	That's all in the president.
	You know, net loss of, what, 38 or so House seats?
	I haven't looked at the final number.
	Rasmussen had Trump at 51% a couple of times.
	There's a new Harris survey for the Hill.
	Well, the president's approval rating keeps going up.
	Now 48%.
	And I am telling you and predicting to you, as the media continues this hysteria, as these antics of Mueller, there's a frenetic pace now going on with Mueller.
	As that continues, and the president stays focused on keeping the economy strong, protecting our interests.
	By the way, I think he did the right thing and pulled out of this meeting with Putin as he heads.
	I think they're headed to Argentina.
	I think it was the right thing to do based on his actions with Ukraine and the ships and sailors that they claimed were in their territorial waters.
	I don't believe it for a minute, but that's what they're claiming.
	And then the president also did something else nobody will talk about in the media.
	And life expectancy, by the way, is now down for the third year in a row.
	Oh, I thought Obamacare was going to make our lives so much better.
	Anyway, the Trump administration outlined ways that states can now avoid Obamacare's restrictions, freeing them now to spend federal dollars outside of the law's exchanges and extend cheaper options that don't comply with the stringent coverage mandates.
	These are waiver concepts, states that devote subsidies to cheaper plans that President Trump promoted as off-ramp from the Affordable Care Act exchanges.
	Why?
	Because so many millions lost their doctors, lost their plans.
	Many only have one option.
	And I still believe that Dr. Josh Umber, Atlas MD, has the answer.
	Health savings accounts are the answer.
	All right, so back to the issue we're watching, and Jerome Corsi will join us.
	We had Roger Stone on yesterday.
	What you're seeing here is a phenomenon.
	You know, the cooperation deal with Mueller and Manafort collapse.
	And apparently, Manafort's not willing to say something that he doesn't believe to be true.
	And that's what Corsi was telling me, and we'll give him more time to expound on this today.
	You know, that's what he's saying.
	They were basically feeding him the information.
	Tell us this.
	And like, you probably won't even get probation.
	You may not even get probation.
	You may just walk away.
	And okay, at 72 years, he didn't remember every email.
	By his own admission, but he said, I didn't lie.
	I just didn't remember.
	And he's saying that he never had any contact with Assange, WikiLeaks, any of their agents, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
	Okay.
	Neither did Stone, according to what he's saying.
	I have no reason to doubt them.
	So what's the crime?
	That you didn't, that you're 72 and you didn't remember an email from two years ago and they're beating the snot out of you just to get you to say what they want?
	You don't see this as flailing around desperation, you know, perjury trap after perjury trap after perjury trap.
	You know what the lesson here is for everybody?
	Sadly, coming from a family of law enforcement, my mom, a prison guard, my dad, family court, probation, so many extended family members, police officers, couple in the FBI, they were deity in my family.
	Deity.
	They were the top of the top.
	Is that I guess you can never cooperate.
	Or maybe, and I said this sarcastically once and the media, sanity's telling people to lie.
	I said, no, because there was talked that Mueller was taking everybody's computer.
	I said, well, just do what Hillary did.
	Just delete him.
	Acid wash with bleach pit and bust up your devices.
	Of course, I'd never give that advice.
	I said at the time, it's not going to work out well for you.
	Worked out well for Hillary.
	All right, so Cohn says, okay, well, I thought the Trump-branded tower in Russia, Moscow, which had been reported widely in January 2016, it didn't.
	It ended in June of 2016.
	Okay, and so he's admitting that he lied before Congress.
	Trump has repeatedly said I didn't do business dealings in Russia.
	For the record, he said, tweeting in July of 2016, I have zero investments in Russia.
	No one said that he, if he did, we would know about it by now.
	Telling reporters in January 2017 that he had no deals there because he had stayed away.
	That's not even contradicted by what Michael Cohn is saying.
	Now, you know, I mean, if it comes down to it, all right, Michael, were you telling the truth then or are you telling the truth now?
	Look, I don't want to pick on Michael Cohn.
	Listen, I just, I feel bad for him.
	And I know his family, and it's just horrible.
	And you get down to the bottom of this.
	Anyone that is in the Trump orbit seems to be bludgeoned.
	And what?
	Okay, so he's telling prosecutors that the president knew about Donald Jr.'s meeting where they learned nothing.
	And here's where the big rub is: it's like with sexual harassment, sexual assault allegations.
	You know, if it's a Republican by the name of Brett Kavanaugh, I believe, I believe, every senator, I believe, I believe, I believe, I believe, I believe.
	But a guy that that's not 36 years ago, old allegations from high school or your first year in college, when Keith Ellison is being accused of emotional and physical abuse from the very same year, and there's evidence to back it up, they never talk about it.
	I thought they cared about the issue.
	Why didn't they believe Ellison's girlfriend?
	Why weren't they as outspoken?
	Because it's not the issue, it's politics.
	Or the same could be said about Avenatti.
	Couldn't get enough of Avenatti's accusations, you know, in the client and the affidavit that he filed about Julie Swetnick.
	And he gets accused of it.
	I don't hear a peep out of any of the same people that loved him for bringing him forward the information against Kavanaugh or the love of the Clintons.
	Paula Jones, Jennifer Flowers, you know, Kathleen Willey, Juanita Broderick.
	I didn't hear anybody saying they believe them.
	Same people.
	So it's politics.
	It's the same here.
	You know, Clapper lies to Congress, USA Today.
	CIA Director Brennan, Congress tells about how Brennan lied before the Senate in The Guardian.
	Loretta Lynch, New York Post, lied to Congress.
	James Comey lied to Congress, Washington Examiner.
	Loretta Lynch, James Comey, again, lied to Congress, townhall.com.
	Eric Holder, Investors Business Daily, I believe, lied to Congress.
	Washington Times, Lois Lerner, lied to Congress.
	U.S. Treasury Secretary Jack Liu, Obama administration, lied to Congress about a key part of the Iranian deal, Washington Post.
	Deputy FBI Director Andrew McCabe lied to Congress.
	Clinton Aid, Cheryl Mills, lied to the DOJ, Washington Examiner, Uma Abedeen lied to DOJ officials, Daily Caller.
	A lot of lying accusations.
	Michael Cohn's the only one.
	The problem with all of this is this whole Russia collusion.
	Where's the collusion?
	Manafort loan applications.
	Manafort didn't pay taxes.
	Manafort had Ukrainian contacts and he did business like, I believe I read Tony Podesta, John's brother.
	So what?
	You know, What's so stunning to me in this is we actually have real crimes, real collusion, and nobody cares.
	Hillary Clinton and her private server in a mom and pop shop bathroom closet.
	Full investigation taken out of the field offices of the rank and file, the good guys that work hard every day in the FBI.
	Taken over by Comey and his buddy Strzzok and Paige and everybody else.
	They're writing an exoneration letter in May that actually says gross negligence, which gets turned into extremely careless, extreme carelessness.
	And then they write the exoneration early May, interview her, 4th of July weekend, July 5th, she's exonerated.
	Then they begin right there, well, let's go after Trump.
	And it's led by Peter Strzzok.
	People forget Peter Strzzok and Lisa Page also were working with the Pit Bull Weissman on Mueller's team.
	And he quietly let them go because he knew there would be a problem at some point.
	So you have Hillary Clinton.
	You know, I guess she has, you know, her own fixer, closer, if you will.
	And that would be Christopher Steele.
	So she pays for the money to go to Perkins Cooey, along with the money she's controlling with the DNC, goes to Perkins Cooey, a law firm, legal expense, but then it gets funneled to an op research firm, Fusion GPS.
	Nellie Orr works there, interestingly.
	Then they hire Christopher Steele.
	Christopher Steele puts together a series of papers that become known as the dossier.
	The dossier then becomes the basis of Trump and hookers in Russia urinating on a bed.
	I mean, how is this not applicable if we're looking?
	She bought Russian lies.
	Those lies were used and leaked purposefully.
	How many people didn't vote for Trump because he thought there were hookers in his room in Moscow and the Ritz, and the hookers were peeing in his bed?
	That was out there.
	Now, they'll ignore Uranium One.
	By the way, that was under Mueller's watch, if I recall.
	We knew Putin had agents in the U.S., and they were involved in bribery, extortion, money laundering, and kickbacks because they wanted to get a foothold in the uranium industry, the foundational material for nuclear weapons.
	Guess what?
	They never stopped it.
	And it happened.
	And tons of money got kicked back to the Clinton Foundation.
	Devin Nunes warned in 2014 about the Russians wanting to create chaos in our elections.
	He was way ahead of the curb.
	So then that phony dossier that she bought with Russian lies, then it gets used not only to lie to the American people before the election, it gets used to get not one, but it's used in four FISA applications to get a warrant to spy on a Trump campaign associate, Carter Page.
	But they never verified the Russian lies she paid for.
	They never corroborated the Russian lies she paid for, which they should have.
	They never told the FISA court judges, as they should have, that it was a political document.
	And then later on, we find out that the author, Christopher Steele, who has a direct line to Bruce Orr, and he's sending messages to special counsel Mueller.
	This is after he had testified.
	He doesn't know if any of this is true under the threat of perjury in an interrogatory in Great Britain.
	How is this not important?
	Because it's just like the sexual assault claims.
	It's only if it's a Republican.
	In this case, it's only if it's Trump.
	I've been warning everybody about Mueller.
	I've been looking at his team.
	I told you who they are.
	I describe it often.
	All Democrats, you know, Andrew Weissman loved Sally Yates after what she did.
	That was at Hillary Clinton's victory party at the Javits Center in New York.
	I've warned you about this team.
	I've warned you that they have.
	Now, what they've got is, okay, Michael Cohn lied to Congress, not all these other people that lied.
	Now you got Coursey, who's going to join us in the next hour.
	They're telling him what they want him to say, and we'll give you a get out of jail free card.
	You know, just tell us what we want.
	That's how desperate they are.
	You know, who's going to choose a jail cell rather than say, yeah, whatever you want me to say?
	I mean, you have in this team, Strzok, Paige, Comey, McCabe, all of these, or Bruce, and Nellie, 25 people, 30 people total, you know, resigned, demoted, fired, abuse of power.
	And now you've got Mueller and his team of obviously desperate, frenetic deals being made, perjury traps set.
	This is not equal justice under the law.
	It's not an equal application of our laws.
	It's like shredding the Constitution and selectively just basically doing whatever the hell you want to do as long as you hate the other person.
	A country doesn't survive with a system like this.
	Forget Republican, Democrat, conservative, liberal.
	It's not justice.
	It's not right.
	This is not going to end well in the sense that if this is allowed to stand, you can kiss equal justice, equal application, goodbye, selective use of constitutional rights.
	That is what you ought to be afraid of today.
	All right, Jerome Coursey, when we get back, he'll tell his own story.
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	It's 800-941 Sean, if you want to be a part of the program.
	It is the biggest, most spectacular double standard ever that a 72-year-old man who, by the way, voluntarily, you know, handed over his computer, every note he had, spent 40 hours with the special counsel.
	By the way, you know, this is what I keep saying.
	You can't get people on the underlying crimes.
	You see now this frenetic pace of Robert Mueller.
	He's grasping.
	He's driving.
	He's pushing, but none of it, you know, this whole desperation thing today with Michael Cohn.
	Oh, I didn't tell the truth before the Senate.
	But there's still nothing wrong in anything.
	It doesn't even contradict what Donald Trump had said.
	Just says that Michael Cohn's admitting that he lied in testimony.
	And you see this with, you know, imagine this.
	You're 72 years old and the feds and a special counsel want you to say certain things.
	And, you know, you give them everything that they can ask for in terms of documentation.
	Who remembers what they wrote in an email two years ago?
	I don't remember what I texted 10 seconds ago.
	I mean, that's how ridiculous this gets.
	But if you don't get it right, well, then they're going to say, well, guilty, perjury.
	Look at Michael Flynn.
	Look at Papadopoulos.
	Look at what they're now trying to do to Jerome Corsi, who's saying, no, I'm not going to lie and say that I lied.
	Yeah, I got a couple of things wrong.
	I didn't remember them.
	But that is called the lie.
	Then they'll put you in jail.
	And it looks like they tried to do the same thing to Paul Manafort.
	And Manafort, he's not lying either because they basically will tell you the story that they want to tell you.
	You know, look, I've got a cut.
	Let me play this and then we'll get to Jerome Corsi here in a second.
	This is Comey saying they lied, but they're good people.
	Oh, okay.
	It's, you know, and then I give, go back to the list that I gave you earlier, people that we know, James Clapper lied to Congress.
	John Brennan lied to Congress or the Senate in that case.
	Loretta Lynch lied to Congress.
	James Comey lied to Congress.
	Then we have people like Eric Holder.
	Remember that case?
	Yeah.
	Eric Holder repeatedly lied to Congress.
	Lois Lerner lied to Congress.
	Jack Liu, the former Treasury Secretary under Obama.
	Andrew McCabe lied to investigators in Congress.
	Cheryl Mills, Clinton Aid Uma Aberdeen.
	Nothing happens to any of them.
	You want Russia collusion?
	You got it.
	Bought and paid for Russian lies, all to influence the 2016 election, and they don't go near it.
	Anyway, listen to Comey here.
	So do you think the future of the FBI is transparency?
	I think it has to be a huge part of the FBI because public confidence in the FBI is its bedrock.
	We have to show people our work when we can, as often as possible, so they have confidence in it.
	Even if that means your second in command was fired for lying four times.
	So this is where I think the confusion comes from.
	Your second in McCann in command.
	McCabe was fired for lying multiple times within the FBI.
	You defended his character on Twitter.
	That's okay.
	Lying is okay internally.
	No, it's definitely not.
	In fact, the McCabe case illustrates what an organization that's committed to the truth looks like.
	We investigated, I ordered that investigation.
	We investigated and hold people accountable.
	Good people lie.
	I lay out in the book, I think I'm a good person where I've lied.
	I still believe Andrew McCabe is a good person, but the Inspector General found that he lied and there's severe consequences in the Justice Department for lying, as there should be throughout the government.
	What are the consequences?
	We haven't seen them yet, except that, oh, he's not in the job any longer.
	Anyway, Jerome Corsi is with us, and obviously he made a conscious decision that he is not going to sign on to a plea agreement.
	What I've read, Jerome, is that they even said that they wouldn't object to just probation if you would sign on to the, quote, I lied, you know, scheme that Mueller had, correct?
	Oh, that's correct, Sean.
	They, in fact, said there might not even be probation.
	I may just get a sentence, no jail time, no probation.
	And now if you're 72 years old, and you know by making that decision, the easy decision would have been to say, okay, if you guys promise probation at the most, I'll sign what you want, right?
	That would have been an easy decision.
	You go on with the rest of your life, I guess, and maybe have to testify against Roger Stone.
	Do you know what they were?
	Were they specifically looking for something that wasn't in your emails that they wanted you to tell them?
	Were they kind of coaching you what they wanted to hear?
	Oh, absolutely.
	They were saying they wanted a link between Roger, me, and Assange.
	And the special prosecutors were demanding that I tell them whom I source, who told me about Assange having Podesta's emails, and they would not believe that I figured it out myself.
	And I was pounded on that hour after hour after hour.
	Just for the record, you never talked to Julian Assange.
	You never talked to anybody connected to WikiLeaks.
	You never met him.
	You don't know him ever, correct?
	All that is correct.
	I've never had anything to do with Julian Assange.
	I mean, and when you gave them the same answer again and again, and there's no email trail, if everything, and I have no reason to doubt you, is true, then, you know, how did we get to this point where you were you told they were going to indict you?
	Oh, yes, they said next is plea talks with your lawyer.
	We're finished with you.
	And they lectured me about how, you know, I can't tell the truth, and I pick this fact, and I lie.
	And I got a whole series of lectures yelled at.
	They walk out of the room.
	They do scowls.
	They start yawning.
	I mean, the bad behavior went on and on, Sean, and they just would not accept that I figured it out myself, which is connecting the dots.
	It's what I do professionally.
	It's my job.
	You are not denying that when you handed over all your computers and in the 40-plus hours that you were testifying.
	Who were the specific people that were interviewing you, interrogating you, whatever phrase you would prefer to use?
	Probably this was inquisition.
	I mean, we use the most extreme term you can.
	The three were Jeannie Ree.
	Oh, Jeannie Ray.
	Wait, wait.
	She's the one that actually was a lawyer for the Clinton Foundation, correct?
	Correct.
	Oh, that one.
	Okay.
	Who else?
	And then Aaron Zelinsky, and he was a prosecutor under Rosenstein, I believe, in Rochester or some city.
	I'm not sure where, but under Rosenstein, he was a U.S. Assistant U.S. Attorney.
	And then the third one was Andrew Goldstein, who was head of the corruption division under Prep Bahara in the Southern District of New York, and about between six to nine different FBI agents.
	So it would be me and my attorney, David Gray, and we'd be facing the three prosecutors and all these FBI agents in a closed-in room, some building unmarked for the FBI in Southeast Washington, for hour after hour after hour of grilling.
	Now, you do admit that in the course of this 40-hour period that you didn't remember things, and as a result, they think you're lying.
	And you were quoted as saying that I was amending my testimony a number of times because you made mistakes.
	Okay.
	That's correct.
	I did that all the time.
	Okay.
	Explain how you didn't remember and what jarred your memory.
	Well, first of all, what they do is they ask you a question, and I give them an explanation.
	They say, well, but what about this email?
	It contradicts what you said.
	I said, well, why don't you show me that first?
	So I could, you know, no, no, we don't want to lead your tip.
	You've got to remember it.
	And if you don't remember it, just say, you don't remember.
	So I said, I don't remember.
	It's impossible you don't remember this.
	So it was constantly being sniped, undercut, because they had something in there.
	They had this eight-inch binder of all my materials, emails, things I've written, who knows what else.
	They wouldn't show it to me.
	And then the detailed, what did this person say to you on this day?
	I'm not a human tape recorder.
	You can't punch a button.
	And I'm going to go back and tell you exactly what the person said on a specific day two years ago.
	And the point is, I guess, because and a lot of this comes up.
	Listen, Jerome, and I'm being very blunt and honest here.
	I can give you Ronald Reagan's success chapter and verse.
	I can give you Obama's failures chapters and verse.
	I can talk about everything related to Clinton, chapter and verse, and George Bush and all things that we've been discussing.
	If you ask me who I had on my show a week ago, I won't remember.
	I honestly, did I text this a week ago?
	I guess.
	Let me see it.
	I would not remember.
	That's not how my brain works, to be very blunt.
	And when you would make these amendments, did they call you a liar?
	Yes, they did.
	I was a liar.
	And then when they showed it to me, I said, well, let me, this is what I think, now you're reconstructing, and now you're telling us a story.
	He said, Dr. Corsi, we're tired of your narratives.
	Don't make up an ⁇ tell us what it is.
	Well, how can I tell you what it is without trying to explain it?
	They said, well, did you just invent that?
	Is it an invention?
	Is it a reconstruction?
	Is it an actual memory?
	I say, you guys got me so confused, I don't even know where I am right now.
	August 21st, there was a tweet.
	Trust me, it will soon, it will soon.
	The Podesta's time in a barrel.
	Weeks later, emails stolen from Hillary Clinton's campaign chairman, John Podesta, were put out.
	If you had nothing to do with any coordination, any conspiracy, any hacking, any, I'm not seeing any underlying crime here for you, except that you cooperated as best you could.
	Did you have the option of saying, no, I'm not talking?
	Yes, you could say that.
	Then they put you in front of the grand jury.
	They ask you the same questions, and you have to answer.
	And now they've got you on transcript.
	And it's much harder to take that back if you do make the mistakes.
	I knew I was going to be making mistakes over and over and over again.
	And I probably made a mistake to think I was trying to be a good citizen and help these people.
	So I handed over everything.
	I just didn't realize that they were out to trap me.
	They were out to make me feel like I was going to go to prison the rest of my life.
	And they do this in the first meeting.
	When you said you constructed and what you testified to, that you believed you were creating a cover story for Roger because Roger wanted to explain this particular tweet that we're talking about in another tweet.
	What did you mean by that you wanted to create a cover story?
	Because that sounds nefarious.
	Well, it does.
	And first of all, this is my recollection of what I was doing.
	It's very ordinary in politics to provide an alternative explanation.
	I mean, I say I was trained in public relations by Edward Bernays, who was the father of public relations.
	So, Sean, to give you an example, British Petroleum, which has been looking for petroleum resources around the world for maybe 100 years, gets a public relations expert, and now they're BP, and they say that's beyond petroleum.
	Well, maybe 1 or 2% of BP's business is solar.
	I don't know the exact percentage, but BP is no more beyond petroleum than little Long John Silver is beyond booty.
	I mean, they're still going after petroleum all over the world.
	So is that a cover story?
	Is it a lie?
	It's pretty much what's done normally in politics.
	And I was repositioning, in my mind, I was saying it was Podesta's involvement in Russia, which had become an issue.
	Now, what Roger thought, and Roger has a very different view of it, that's Roger's view.
	And I don't dispute Roger's view.
	My idea of what I was doing might have been my idea and it might have been wrong.
	All right, let's hold it right there.
	We're going to take our time with this because I think this is too important, especially in light of this frenetic, you know, almost like bizarre, strange level of activity.
	I believe that Robert Mueller, now, the person I was warning everybody about from the get-go, we're now seeing his true colors.
	And there's an anger that they don't have collusion.
	And that led in part to, I guess, they think, well, Michael Cohn was negotiating a Trump Tower deal longer than they said that they had originally said it.
	Okay, is any of that illegal?
	Any of it?
	And it never materialized.
	And maybe it went on longer.
	He wasn't the president.
	He wasn't even close.
	At that point in time, they were just beginning this Russia witch hunt.
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	All right, as we continue with Jerome Corsi, by the way, who is going to stay with us past the half hour here, there was this document of Robert Mueller's office that they wanted to use to sign as part of a plea deal had in there, for example, this particular text.
	On or about July 25th, 2016, person one, we know to be Roger, emailed you, Corsi, with the subject line, get to Organization One, obviously WikiLeaks.
	The body of the message read, get to the founder of the organization, Assange, at the Ecuadorian embassy in London and get the pending Organization One emails.
	They deal with Foundation, allegedly.
	Now, number one, I don't remember anything that ever came out about the Clinton Foundation from WikiLeaks.
	I might be wrong.
	I don't remember.
	Which would tell me that you had no idea what this person might or might not have.
	That's right.
	And see, I didn't.
	I had no idea at that point what Assange had, hadn't thought about it really hard.
	But I did subsequently, and about flying over to Italy a few days later, I figured it out.
	But at any rate, that day, that memo, Roger was saying, ask Ted Malik, who's a good friend of mine.
	I helped get his memoirs published.
	An academic, brilliant academic, said have him go see Assange.
	And I passed it on.
	I saw nothing wrong with it.
	You could certainly go see Assange without committing a crime under the Pentagon Papers case.
	By the way, I've interviewed him.
	I went to the Ecuadorian embassy.
	I asked him if there was any Russia influence.
	He said no.
	Now, whether or not he told the truth, I don't, you know, but if you go to the Pentagon Papers case, if he wasn't a part of stealing or hacking and it was handed to him, well, that's like the Pentagon Papers handed to the New York Times and Washington Post and then them publishing it.
	And the New York Times even published the WikiLeaks stuff, too.
	This is a short segment.
	Stay with us.
	I promise I'll give you a lot of time.
	I don't want to interrupt you.
	I want you to be able to tell your story.
	And we'll get back to Jerome Corsi on the other side.
	Alec Baldwin's favorite radio talk show host is on the air right now.
	Right, Mr. Baldwin?
	Here's Sean Hannity.
	All right, 25 now till the top of the hour, toll-free.
	Telephone numbers, 800-941.
	Sean, you want to be a part of the program?
	We continue with Jerome Corsi.
	And, of course, the big news this week and an argument that I am making here is that it seems in an act of flailing desperation and just bordering on insanity in some ways.
	You see this flurry of activity with Robert Mueller.
	And we now learned earlier this week that Jerome Corsi was offered a plea deal.
	He said, I'm not going to sign it.
	He said, I'm not going to sign it because if I sign what you want me to sign, it's going to be a lie.
	Now, we just heard, I played earlier, you know, there's James Comey admitting he lied, admitting McCabe lied, but you can still be a good person and tell lies.
	And Jerome, you're saying you didn't remember things from two years ago when you went before the special counsel.
	You know, by the way, memory does, it's not as good as it used to be.
	And I'm only 56.
	So let me be blunt about that.
	I don't know.
	You know, most people I know that are older, they say, yeah, it really begins to go in some ways.
	But you made a big choice because you basically were offered a get-out-of-jail free card.
	Let's be honest here.
	You were offered a, we'll leave you alone.
	You sign this agreement.
	You admit to this.
	And now you, and I'll use your words, you know you now may spend the rest of your life in jail.
	Well, Sean, if I have to spend the rest of my life in jail, so be it.
	If that's where justice in America has come to.
	But I will not stand in front of a U.S. attorney and swear to God that I knowingly and willfully gave false information that I knew to be false to federal authorities to deceive them because I know in my heart I did not do that.
	And I will not swear a lie to God.
	I just won't do it.
	That sounds like a principled stand that I would think that they would want from somebody.
	What was their reaction when you said you can't sign this deal?
	They were furious, blew up, told my attorney, we'll take it from here, very curt, hung up the phone.
	That's what they did.
	You called from David Gray.
	Your attorney got the call, but you had already told your attorney you will not take a plea deal on the specific offer that they had made to you.
	And that was Monday morning.
	I did that.
	Monday morning, I announced to David and began announcing to the world, this is a fraudulent deal.
	I was offered by the Department of Justice.
	I had to lie to the regulatory industries where I've held insurance and securities licenses since the 80s.
	I was going to sign, they demanded it be secret that I pled guilty before a federal judge, and I couldn't even report that to the federal, to the various regulatory agencies, which require you to immediately notify them of a change in circumstance, which would prevent you from having a license.
	So it was both I had to lie and I had to commit some kind of a fraud.
	I won't do that.
	I won't commit a crime, Sean, to stay out of prison the rest of my life.
	I can die in prison, but I will have had my integrity.
	And before God, who is the only judge who matters in my life, I will have been honest.
	You know the case of Lieutenant General Flynn, and I'm listening to you, frankly, in amazement because it's a principled stand you're taking.
	That's correct.
	And Lieutenant Flynn, and I'm pretty sure I figured out what happened in his case.
	And I cast no aspersions upon him, just the opposite.
	I think he's an American hero.
	You know, this is the thanks you get for 30 years of serving your country for far less money than you would ever get in the private sector.
	In his particular case, neither the two FBI agents that interviewed him, none of them thought he was lying.
	Comey didn't think he was lying.
	So why did he agree to the one charge that he admitted he lied?
	Number one, he ran out of money.
	He couldn't afford to pay his lawyers.
	He had to sell his house.
	And what I really suspect is, and this is a trick or pressure point that prosecutors often use.
	Well, you know, I guess we're just going to have to, you know, your son work with you and your business.
	We're just going to have to, we're going to be going after him too, just so you know.
	And my guess, and this is total speculation, is he said, I got it.
	I'll sign it.
	And as a father, he dove on the sword for his son or somebody else in his family.
	Now, does that sound plausible to you?
	Because that's what I believe probably happened.
	I believe it's exactly what happened, given my experience, Sean, and General Flynn's a huge American hero in my book.
	And they're doing the same to me.
	They say, you know, your family will be bankrupt.
	You'll lose your jobs.
	You'll not have any way to work.
	We'll be putting you in prison soon.
	You're going to be guilty.
	You'll be separated from your wife.
	You may never see your children or grandchildren as a free man again.
	And I said, if that's what you want to do to me, Mr. Mueller, come get me.
	Because I'm not swearing to a lie no matter how much you threaten me.
	Did you ever meet Mueller?
	No, I've never met Mueller.
	Is Andrew Weissman in any of these meetings?
	I've never met Andrew.
	He's never been in any of these.
	It's always been the Genie Ree, Aaron Zelensky, and Andrew Goldstein.
	Let me ask you, and I asked you this on TV last night, because I got to know you when you and Jim O'Neill wrote the book that was a number one bestseller, Unfit for Command.
	And I'm reading all these things about you, you know, and I asked you about it last night because I didn't fully hear your answer, to be very blunt.
	It's hard sometimes on TV, that you didn't believe the moon landings had really happened or you believe that 9-11 was an inside job.
	And I'm asking for a specific reason.
	I know that you went into the issue of Barack Obama's birth certificate.
	That, for me, was never my issue, really.
	I just thought these produced a stupid thing and we move on and eventually it happened.
	But do you really believe those things or are people lying about you?
	People are lying about me.
	I don't believe those things at all, Sean.
	I think we landed on the moon.
	But you've seen it as I have, correct?
	Yes.
	And my critics like to demonize me with making up things that I've never believed and I don't avow.
	And I'll acknowledge that, you know, I pushed the envelope.
	I'm an investigative journalist.
	I'm willing to ask questions that go against the government explanation of things.
	But why didn't you claim a First Amendment privilege that you don't give away sources in any regard?
	Well, Sean, I could have done that.
	I could have.
	But I went in honestly to try to help.
	I didn't see I had done anything wrong.
	I didn't see anyone had done it.
	Not Roger Stone.
	Certainly not the president.
	I don't even like Russian salad dressing.
	So I don't have anything to do with Russia.
	Well, that's probably the only thing.
	I like Russia salad dressing.
	All right.
	Let me ask you very bluntly.
	What did they want you to say?
	And what do you think about this?
	They want me to say that here's my contact with Julian Hassan, which I did not have.
	And this person told me everything Julian Hassan chat.
	I told it to Roger Stone, so Roger Stone could tell it to Banner or the president.
	And they were collude.
	This was their channel to tell Assange when to drop things, what he had, how they wanted to create this false narrative that Donald Trump, through Roger Stone, through me, to Wikileaks, was giving instructions as to how to use these stolen DNC emails to harm Hillary Clinton.
	That's what they wanted me to say.
	So now this is after the DNC emails came out just before the Democratic National Convention, correct?
	Correct.
	All right.
	And if I recall correctly, there was tons of speculation.
	Well, does he have anything else?
	Nobody knew.
	There was like this shroud of mystery all over the place, right?
	That's right.
	Everybody was asking.
	Everybody, what does Assange have?
	It was a question on everyone's mind at that time.
	You know, I had found in my interviews with him, he's very careful with every word he says.
	And it was, you know, and I wanted to know because my feeling was that if he did get this information wherever he says he gets it from, maybe it's a Russian cutout and maybe he didn't know.
	Maybe it was Russia and he just didn't tell me the truth.
	Maybe it was, who knows?
	It could have been 100 different things.
	Maybe it was China.
	You know, Hillary's emails were, we understand, were hacked by at least, what, six foreign intelligence services.
	You know, I mean, it's insane that she's not in any trouble and that she got an exoneration before even an investigation.
	So what can you tell us about the joint defense agreement that you had with President Trump's legal team?
	David Gray and Jay Sekolo and the team of the president's lawyers were entering into an informal, was never signed, defense agreement.
	My understanding, what I told David to do, and I never participated in any of these conversations.
	I didn't hear them because I'm not a lawyer.
	This was lawyer to lawyer.
	And what my instructions were to David were let the president know through Jay Sekolo what's going on with Mueller from our perspective, what we're seeing, what we're being asked.
	Share that with the president.
	Don't ask for advice.
	We don't want the president's advice.
	We don't want any coordination.
	It's a one-way communication, David.
	And David affirms that this is how he did it, where we share information with Jay Sekholo and don't expect anything in return.
	When Roger wrote you about, you know, get to Organization One, which we now know to be Wikileaks and Assange, you never got there, but did you have or know somebody that had contact with Assange that could have given you information that you believed to be accurate?
	No, I had no person who was an intermediary or go-between or a contact with Assange that told me what Assange had.
	I had no intermediate contact at all.
	No direct contact, no intermediate contact.
	I had no contact whatsoever of any kind with Julian Assange.
	So there's no chance of any conspiracy to get stolen emails from anybody.
	You never hacked anybody, I assume.
	Is that correct?
	No, I never did.
	Okay, so they really don't have any underlying crime for you at all, do they?
	No, and they were furious at me because I broke their chain.
	I couldn't give them the piece that connected Roger to Assange.
	And now I'm a bad dog.
	Now I've lied, and now I'm going to spend the rest of my life in prison.
	And so be it.
	So, you know, we're back to the, it's like the Martha Stewart case.
	I mean, if you can't get him on the underlying crime and one fact is misremembered and you didn't remember, you literally are talking about emails from almost two years ago or past two years ago.
	Correct.
	So you have two-year-old emails.
	I don't know how many emails you get a day, but I got a bunch.
	And text messages.
	I got a bunch.
	60,000 emails.
	When I finally reloaded, I had 60,000 emails in that conversation.
	When you went in, had you read those emails to refresh your memory?
	No, I couldn't because I wanted to give them my laptop, which nearly broken in the condition when I stopped using it.
	And so I was afraid if I reloaded 2016, I would destroy its lawyers.
	By the way, the only one that gets away with that is Hillary Clinton.
	You get to delete them and then acid wash it with bleach pit.
	And then you get to have somebody bust up your devices and remove SIM cards.
	And of course, in her case, she's free as a bird.
	I mean, when you see all the things that, I don't know if you watch my TV show much.
	All the time, almost every day, almost every day.
	I love your show.
	Well, thank you.
	But, you know, we've uncovered a lot of information about her, and she gets an exoneration, violated the Espionage Act, clear obstruction of justice, did far worse more consciously than you did, and nothing happens to her.
	Then she actually paid for Russian lies to influence the election.
	And they turned out to be even its own author won't stand by them anymore.
	And then those lies become the basis of FISA court fraud so they can spy on a Trump campaign associate.
	As you see that, you know, I've been trying my best to uncover every aspect of this.
	And you think, well, this is the United States.
	This is not justice or equal justice under the law or equal application of our laws.
	We might as well take the Constitution hearing this and knowing everything Hillary did, just shred it because it's not being the two-tier justice system.
	I've been right the whole time.
	And as we continue, Jerome Corsi, he's been now our guest for the full hour.
	I want to give you the last minute we have and give you a chance to just direct your what you want the American people to know about your experience, what you now have described in detail to us.
	My experience proved to me that the Mueller investigation is run by political hacks that are really criminals.
	Anybody whose demand to keep me out of prison, I have to swear to a lie, I consider a criminal.
	And the supervision of Mueller proves that the Department of Justice is being run right now by political hacks who are criminals.
	If this is the way it's going to be, I'll go to federal prison for the rest of my life and it'll be that's what I have to do to show the country that we do not have justice in America any longer.
	We've got political, criminal, criminals running the Justice Department.
	Well, I want to just say this.
	I'm very sorry that you're going through this, especially because you didn't do anything.
	And this is how you're being treated.
	And I hope every American pays very close attention to this.
	Jerome Corsi, thank you for being with us.
	You're in our thoughts.
	You're in our prayers.
	We wish you Godspeed, sir.
	Thank you, Sean.
	God bless.
	Godspeed.
	800-941-Sean, toll-free telephone number.
	Jonathan Gillum, Geraldo Rivera, next.
	Our final news roundup and information overload in the final hour of the Sean Hannity Show.
	Well, Sean, first of all, I think I've been targeted because I supported Donald Trump for president and I helped defeat Hillary Clinton.
	But I violated no law regarding the 2016 election or anything else.
	And the idea that I knew about the source or the content of the WikiLeaks disclosures, whether they were allegedly hacked emails or allegedly stolen emails of John Podesta, is simply false.
	I had a tipster who told me that after Assange went on CNN in June and Fox in August and said that he had a trove of documents on Hillary Clinton, I had a tipster to tell me that they were devastating.
	A bombshell, incredible, would end Hillary's campaign and that they would be published in October.
	And I provided text messages only last week that proved that that source was Randy Credico, a New York-based progressive radio talk show host, and that his source was not Julian Assange, but a woman attorney who works for Wikileaks.
	So now, suddenly the media doesn't want to talk about Randy Credico anymore.
	Now suddenly they have a new narrative, which is the idea that I must have received these documents, either Podesta's emails or the DNC emails from Jerry Corsi.
	That is also false.
	All right, that was just in the last hour.
	Roger Stone is now the mystery of what is going on.
	Paul Manafort, Julian Assange both denying the Guardian report that they had met on three separate occasions.
	Jerome Corsi saying he will not sign something that is not true in some plea deal offered to him.
	He claims by Robert Mueller in connection with what he knew and what he and Roger Stone were communicating about in the lead up to the 2016 presidential election.
	And on top of all of that, we just have, you know, what's going to happen next.
	The president had put out answers to specific questions, one of them apparently having to do with whether or not the president had any conversation with Roger Stone about the issue of what might be released by Julian Assange, Roger Stone just telling us moments ago that there was no such conversation and the president answered correctly.
	Anyway, here to get to the bottom of this, what are the legal aspects that are in play here?
	Because when Robert Mueller, if he's offering Jerome Corsi, as Coursey claims, some type of plea deal, then that's interesting to one count of perjury or lying and even the possibility of only probation.
	But he's not going to sign something that's not true.
	Remember back, Lieutenant General Flynn said the FBI agents and James Comey himself, Peter Strzzok amongst them, all did not believe he lied to the FBI, but he was going bankrupt, had to sell his house.
	I believe the screws were being turned on him, probably pressuring him with some time for threat against his son who he was in business with.
	This happens all too often.
	And we call it, as my friend Greg Jarrett, who joins us now, calls it, TESSA lying.
	Say what they want.
	You get off with no sentence.
	You get off with a light sentence.
	But both Manafort and Corsi are saying, no, we're not going to play that game.
	Also with us, Andy McCarthy, Fox News contributor, Columnist National Review, former, by the way, assistant U.S. attorney for the Southern District of New York.
	Welcome both of you.
	You know, Andy, we've gone back and forth about this.
	And, you know, it reminds me of like Sammy the Bull Gravano, who, you know, he kills, what, 18, 19 people.
	And they make a deal, and he doesn't go to jail if he testifies against Gotti.
	How do you trust a guy when you're bribing him with a get out of jail free card in that particular case?
	Maybe more dramatic, but do you see that happening here?
	Sean, the vital difference between what you just described in terms of Gravano and what we're dealing with here is that Gravano actually pled guilty to a crime.
	That is to say, to a scheme, to a conspiracy.
	What a prosecutor does in a real criminal case when the prosecutor has an actual conspiracy that he's investigating is he brings the cooperator in and the cooperator testify or allocutes in his guilty plea to the existence of the conspiracy.
	He says, here's the crime that we agreed to commit.
	I was a member of the Gambino family at Cosa Nostra.
	Here was the boss.
	Here was the underboss.
	This is the crew I ran.
	These are the crimes I committed.
	And that way, you have the structure of the criminal enterprise.
	You've got it all described.
	You have everybody's role in it, right?
	Here, what we're dealing with is an investigation of no crime.
	So they don't have what they're doing is they're investigating the seamy underbelly of American politics, the kind of stuff that goes on in campaigns.
	And even if Mueller had his dream version of events here, let's say Wike Leaks was in contact with Jerry Corsi, who was in contact with Stone, who told the president that they had Hillary Clinton or John Podesta's emails.
	What's the crime?
	Because I don't think anybody knew it was in there.
	So this is important because I'm watching all of this and I'm asking myself, what is, okay, somebody says that they have something that is damning op research that's going to hurt the other party.
	Now, I think if 435 members of Congress, 100 U.S. senators get a phone call and the phone call says, oh, we got information that is damaging to your opponent.
	Do you agree with me?
	Probably all 535 would say, what do you got?
	And go and meet such a person.
	Of course they would because that's the way politics goes in America.
	But my point is that they are criminalizing something that is not criminal activity.
	That's the reason that they have to plead them guilty to false statement counts.
	I agree with you that Sammy Gravano got a disgraceful sentence, but at least he pled guilty to racketeering.
	At least he pled guilty to the crime that they were investigating.
	Here, they're not investigating a crime.
	So they have to plead everybody guilty to false statements counts.
	And Sean, if you're a prosecutor building a case that you intend to have a big bang at the end, do you think the way you go about that is to plead all your important witnesses to lying to the FBI?
	You want to put people on the stand that the first thing that the jury's going to hear and the most enduring thing they're going to hear is that the guy's a liar and can't be trusted?
	Nobody builds a case that way.
	Greg Jarrett.
	Well, Jerome Corsi sent me the plea offer that he received from Robert Mueller.
	And count number one, false statement.
	It begins by saying Jerome Corsi did willfully and knowingly make a materially false, fictitious, fraudulent statement to wit, and then it identifies three things he said.
	Those three things are different than emails that he happened to have.
	And the lawyer responded, Corsi's lawyer responded by saying, my client did not have the benefit of reviewing his emails.
	And once he did that, he amended his statements to your office.
	And now you're asking him to admit that he lied when, in fact, he simply didn't recall a couple of the emails.
	He's 71 years old.
	Look, I'm much younger.
	If you ask me who is on my show next week, I honestly don't think I could recall.
	I don't think I would.
	I'll give you an example.
	So.
	So I went back because I had some vague recollection that I wrote about WikiLeaks in 2016 during the summer.
	And so I research it.
	I go back through my emails.
	I go through my column.
	I wrote a column, which I don't remember writing.
	By the way, Andy, you know that's true, right?
	How does anyone remember what the hell you did in 2016?
	I don't even know where I was.
	Wait a minute now.
	Sean and Griggles.
	It was based on emails and information that I sent out trying to get the same information from WikiLeaks.
	Now, I don't remember sending them.
	So if I had testified yesterday, I'd be in the same position as Jerome Corsi.
	Andy, you want to jump in on that?
	I just was going to say that I remember every word of every column, and I expect everyone else to remember every word.
	That's ridiculous.
	You do not.
	Anyway, let's go back to this document describing Corsi's activities.
	And I want to just ask if it's a crime.
	It says, on or about July 25th, 2016, person one, we believe now to be Roger Stone, sent an email to Corsi with the subject line, get to the founder of Organization One, we believe to be WikiLeaks, meaning Assange.
	The body of the message read, get to the founder of the organization, Organization One, at the Ecuadorian embassy in London.
	They're not really hiding it.
	And get pending Organization One emails.
	They deal with Foundation allegedly.
	So somebody gave him a, it sounds like somebody gave him a tip.
	Hey, this guy might have information that deals with the Clinton Foundation.
	That's how I read it.
	Right.
	Yeah.
	And if it was a crime, they would have asked Jerry Corsi to plead guilty to conspiracy to commit espionage.
	They're describing an operation to get somebody's clause on opposition research, which people may think is icky, but is not illegal.
	And again, Sean, I come back to the same thing.
	The reason that they're pressuring him to plead guilty to a false statement is in order to camouflage what they're doing as if they were investigating actual crime.
	But what's going on here is they're investigating a non-crime.
	They trip people up and they get them to falsely explain, or as they put it, inaccurately explain what happened.
	And what the media then runs out and reports is that Mueller is doing an investigation of Trump collusion with Russia and everybody's pleading guilty.
	Isn't this what we call a classic?
	Isn't this a classic perjury trap?
	In other words, you know, they can't get you on the underlying crime.
	So what it teaches, I guess, everybody else is, even though you might be inclined as I normally would be, if the FBI wanted my help, I would want to help them.
	But if I'm risking my own life and a charge of perjury, if I don't accurately remember something, I don't even know what I did on TV last night.
	And Corsi's mistake is twofold.
	First of all, he should not have volunteered to testify.
	He should have said no when he was asked.
	And second of all, he should have reviewed his emails before he testified.
	That's his mistake.
	But nevertheless.
	What if he didn't save them?
	Well, he actually deleted them, but then he was able to gain access, as you often are, through deleted emails that are nevertheless kept.
	But I mean, the point is that if Robert Mueller decides to charge Jerome Corsi with making a false statement, he'll never be able to prove it, I predict, because he'd have to show that it was willingly and knowingly made.
	Well, the defense of Jerome Corsi, as it is for many people, is that I didn't knowingly make a false statement.
	And I didn't remember emails that I sent.
	Isn't it an act of bravery?
	I mean, pretty much what it seems Mueller's team was offering, you plead guilty to one count of lying, and we won't even oppose the possibility that you just get probation.
	So Corsi says, I'm not going to lie.
	Manafort, he says, I'm not going to tell you what you want to say.
	Greg, you coined the term, well, I've heard it before, test a lie.
	In other words, they're sitting there across the table from you basically telling you what they want to hear.
	And all you have to do to save your own ass is say what they want to hear.
	And if you do, you've got to benefit instead of the rest of your life in jail.
	Maybe it's going to be, you know, two weeks like Papadopoulos.
	But to both of them, to both say no because they can't go along with something that's false, they're both older gentlemen.
	It seems to me that that's a pretty principled stand, knowing that this might be the rest of their lives in jail.
	They're being principled and the special counsel is being unprincipled because he doesn't care about the truth.
	And he's using the tactics of bribery and extortion to try to get somebody to capitulate.
	And Coursey, and I think Manafort now are refusing to do so.
	A quick answer on that, Andy, then we'll take a break.
	To capitulate on what?
	That's the, I mean, what Greg outlines, sure, but the thing is, what if they admitted what Mueller wanted?
	It's still not a crime.
	What they're doing is they're criminalizing what they do in a political campaign.
	It's not like, you know, somebody agrees with Mueller's version of events, and finally we have the big hacking conspiracy.
	They don't have to.
	Well, I want to ask you about that when we get back.
	I want to ask you about, because the New York Times also publishes information, as did other papers, other news sources.
	And there was a case in the past where it became a big deal.
	I'll explain that when we get back.
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	All right, as we continue, Andy McCarthy, Greg Jarrett are with us.
	Let's talk about other publications that did the same thing that Wikileaks did.
	They got the information, they got the emails, DNC, Podesta, didn't they all print them?
	Why are they less culpable than WikiLeaks doing it, Andy?
	They're not.
	We have a Pentagon.
	If WikiLeaks was involved, if Wikileaks had an understanding with Russian operatives that there would be hacking and WikiLeaks would take the hacked information and put it out, then WikiLeaks may have a hacking problem.
	You know, they may be involved in the hacking conspiracy.
	That doesn't mean that other people who take what they have and run with it have committed a crime.
	I remember when this came out, Sean, Marco Rubio, I think, came out and said nobody should rely on this stuff and nobody should publicize it because it's stolen material.
	And he wanted to be like the last honest man.
	But the way things work in America, everybody uses this stuff, and the media regularizes it by publishing it.
	I think that's a good point.
	And on the other side of this, if you guys don't mind, I want to hold you over a few more minutes and get into historically why I think this is important and what it means for freedom of the press and those that are given information like this.
	800-941 Sean, we'll continue.
	More with Greg Jarrett and Andy McCarthy on the other side.
	And he talks to the people involved in the top stories of the day.
	Every day.
	Sean Hannity is on.
	All right, 25 now till the top of the hour.
	It's getting more interesting by the hour, by the minute, by the day.
	And Robert Mueller has had two setbacks now in the last couple of days.
	One with Paul Manafort, also apparently, along with Jerome Corsi, had joint defense agreements with the White House, which means a lot of the information was going back and forth.
	Mueller's claiming the cooperation agreement with Manafort has been breached.
	And in the case of Corsi, he's saying that he refuses to take a plea deal in which he would be forced to lie about something.
	I want to get into the issue and maybe use the Pentagon papers as a case in point, Andy, to explain to people exactly why this is not a crime, even if it did happen as it relates to Jerome Corsi or Roger Stone.
	Why would you say it's not a crime?
	Well, Sean, maybe the best example for people would be like a diary, right?
	You have a diary in your house.
	I come in and I steal the diary out of your house and I give it to Greg.
	And Greg runs with the information on it.
	Now, Greg didn't deputize me to go steal it.
	He didn't know I was going to take it.
	But he finds the information interesting.
	He publishes it.
	Now, I've committed a crime because I stole it from you.
	Greg hasn't done anything wrong.
	Now, you could say maybe he's done something unethical or something that you think is icky because you've put personal information in your diary and he's not respecting your right to privacy as you see it.
	Sure, fine.
	But he still committed a crime.
	Well, let me ask you specifically in this case, because I interviewed Assange on radio and on TV, and I asked him repeatedly, I'll play it for you if you want, whether or not he got this information from Russia.
	Now, one caveat, people in the Intel community, other sources I have said it absolutely was maybe it wasn't directly from Russia or a state party, as he said, but it could have been a third-party cutout, if you will.
	In other words, somebody that is not associated with them, but really is doing their bidding.
	But here's what Assange said: Russia give you this information or anybody associated with Russia.
	Our source is not a state party.
	So the answer for our interactions is no.
	You did not get this information about the DNC, John Podesta's emails.
	Can you tell the American people 1,000% you did not get it from Russia or anybody associated with Russia?
	We can say, and we have said repeatedly over the last two months that our source is not the Russian government and it is not a state party.
	Our source is not the Russian government.
	So in other words, let me be clear.
	Russia did not give you the Podesta documents or anything from the DNC.
	That's correct.
	All right.
	Now, Andy, just using your example of you giving something to Greg, and Greg maybe unethically but not illegally, you know, publishes that something, and maybe you're on the hook.
	What if something is brought to WikiLeaks by whatever source, but it happens to be truth that they're publishing?
	You may not like it.
	It may be secrets.
	It might be, you know, personally, I can't believe we as a country have not developed cybersecurity.
	We get hacked all the time.
	It's insane that we have not built up a better defense system for our government, which also raises the question of Hillary's emails and how unsafe that was in a bathroom closet.
	But when he says that, if what he is saying is true and this was offered to him, is he, Greg, using your analogy?
	Did he just receive it from somebody and he published what somebody gave him because he believed it to be true?
	The best example is the Pentagon Papers case.
	The documents about the Vietnam War were stolen by Daniel Ellsberg.
	They were given to the New York Times and the Washington Post that published them.
	The Post and the New York Times are insulated from prosecution.
	They're publishing something that's a matter of public interest, even though they were stolen.
	And that principle of the Pentagon Papers case has stood for a very long time.
	We don't prosecute people for trying to find out information, especially news organizations that are in the public interest, even though they originally might be stolen information.
	Now, the same can be said here.
	Let's assume that the documents were stolen and given to WikiLeaks, and then they then publish.
	Course he was trying to do exactly what you did, trying to find out information.
	If you read the count against him, it says he reached out to WikiLeaks.
	All right, so did you.
	So did I.
	So did hundreds of other journalists across America during the summer of 2016 because Julian Assange said he's got some stuff and it's going to be damaging to Hillary Clinton.
	So everybody was trying to find out what it was.
	So why then?
	Coursey, it's not a crime.
	Why, Andy, then would, in the sense, if this is offered to WikiLeaks, and I know they view themselves as a news organization, if it's given to them, why wouldn't they be in the same position as the New York Times and the Washington Post and the Pentagon Papers case?
	Well, Sean, I don't know that I accept Assange's explanation that he didn't get it from Russia.
	If you take at face value, what he said, and if it turns out, as you qualified before, if what he's saying is true, then I agree with Greg's analysis of it.
	He's just like a journalist.
	Let's say his source was a Russian cutout.
	Let's say it's that.
	Does that matter where he got it from?
	I think it depends on whether he knows and whether you have an arrangement that you can properly describe as a conspiracy.
	How is that different, though, than the Pentagon Papers?
	What do you mean?
	In other words.
	In other words, they were stolen documents.
	They were printed.
	Yeah, but if you're encouraging people to do the theft and there's proof of that.
	Let's say he didn't encourage it.
	Somebody came to him and offered it to him.
	Well, that's a different thing.
	Right.
	That's like somebody takes information.
	What I'm saying is there's a lot of, you know, this is not a one-off with WikiLeaks, right?
	They have a lot of information that they've put out in the past, and there's a lot of people in the intelligence community long before any of this happened that thought that they were an arm of Russian intelligence.
	And I don't think that that's ever been disproved.
	It certainly hasn't been disproved.
	Listen, I know people that believe that with all their heart and soul, and I don't have an answer because it's way above my pay grade.
	But then let me take it a step further and ask, if in fact they got this information, however they got it, and they published it, and if they didn't encourage it, you're saying there's no crime associated with that, and that that precedence of the Pentagon Papers would hold.
	Yes, if there's no conspiracy, Sean, I don't understand why giving it to WikiLeaks would be different from giving it to me.
	You know, I mean, there's either a crime or there's not underneath it all.
	Yeah, and Greg, to take it even maybe a step further, if they really wanted to find out where they got it from, why didn't Mueller and his well, first of all, why didn't you know the interesting thing is he never went after Hillary Clinton and real Russian lies really used to propagandize the American people, bought and paid for Russian lies, then a fraud committed on four FISA courts and four separate applications, pertinent information withheld from those judges.
	And then, of course, she was exonerated without an investigation.
	And then we've got surveillance and unmasking and leaking raw intelligence abuse here.
	But, you know, let's just, for the sake of argument here, say that, you know, in the case of WikiLeaks, that they did what any other paper would do or any other.
	And Mueller admits it.
	But why didn't they ask?
	Here's my question.
	Why didn't they ask Julian Assange?
	Well, they should have.
	The first thing you do is you ask Julian Assange.
	There's no indication.
	Wouldn't he be the one guy?
	I'm sorry to interrupt.
	Wouldn't he be the one guy that knows where he got it from?
	And wouldn't he be able to prove where he got it from?
	He would.
	But on the statement of offense, first page, Mueller declares the theft of campaign-related emails and other documents was by the Russian government's main intelligence directorate of the general staff, the GRU.
	So Mueller declares the theft was by.
	Okay, let's say that's true.
	But that doesn't mean that's where they got it from.
	That's right.
	If the Russians gave it to WikiLeaks and Jerome Corsi and others, including yourself, try to find out information and details about that, you're not committing a crime.
	The GRU committed a crime, but nobody else did.
	All right.
	Listen, you guys are both fascinating.
	I mean, this really is getting interesting to me.
	And it seems like there is a certain desperation to this that I think is going to be revealed in pretty short order.
	We'll find out.
	Andy McCarthy, thank you.
	Greg Jarrett, thank you.
	We appreciate you guys spending the extra time with us.
	800-941-Sean, toll-free telephone number.
	You want to be a part of the program.
	Our friend Congressman Louis Gorman of Texas, their first congressional district.
	What percentage of the vote did you get this time?
	It was only about 72-73.
	72-73.
	I'm never campaigning for you again.
	You don't need me ever.
	Are you kidding?
	Are you never kidding?
	It would have been a lot worse without you, Sean.
	Are you kidding?
	Listen, can I say one thing about Mueller?
	Mueller investigation.
	We got senators say the Mueller investigation ought to be protected.
	Look, let me go on record.
	The Mueller investigation has got to be protected at all costs.
	I've been saying Mueller needed to be investigated for years now.
	And if there's an investigation of Mueller, it needs to be protected.
	This guy's dirty.
	He needs to be investigated.
	That's the Mueller investigation that needs to be.
	Well, that's not going to happen.
	But, you know, we are talking about a lot of different things here.
	Let me ask you this.
	Now, you have a plan that's going to allow Congress to pay for the border wall through a reconciliation bill.
	That would mean the House and Senate can do it with 51 votes in the Senate.
	Yeah, or even 50 votes, because then we have a Vice President that would break it for the president.
	And you know what?
	In September, we were told, look, let's don't have a fight for the wall now.
	Let's come back in December and do it then.
	And now there is no fight.
	And I got up today at conference and I was saying, look, guys, you said you wanted to fight in December.
	Now is the time to fight.
	We only have a couple of months.
	And, Sean, you would have been so proud of the members that stood up and said, hey, I've been defeated, but I'm willing to stay here every day.
	I'd like to have Christmas Day itself, but I would stay here every day.
	People are willing to fight.
	Rank and file are willing to fight.
	And Paul says, well, the Senate doesn't have the votes.
	We can do it through reconciliation.
	Brad Byrne has the bill.
	It's called a 50-vote for a wall bill because you don't have to have 60.
	And it could be done.
	Paul's been chairman of budget committee.
	He's done it before.
	He knows how it's done.
	Well, they don't have the votes in the Senate.
	Look, we have got to have people light up the Senate, light up the House members saying, look, you got two months.
	Help the president.
	You didn't help him enough before.
	Now you got a chance before you go out.
	Help the president.
	We got to light people up because the fight is in a lot of members, Republican members here, just not at all.
	Why are they afraid to have this fight ever?
	I mean, this is it.
	I don't get it.
	I don't get it.
	If we don't have this fight, they may want Mitt Rodney for president next time.
	There will not be another Republican president if we don't do what we need to do to help Donald Trump protect our border, protect our country, not to stop immigration, but make sure it's legal.
	He's doing what he can.
	That's why his voters will come out in 2020.
	But we can do this.
	It's through the reconciliation process.
	And the Democrats can't stop it.
	We have the votes.
	What does Mitch McConnell say about it?
	Well, I haven't heard from Mitch, but I've heard from Paul and Kevin.
	Their position is, well, the Senate says they don't have the votes.
	Well, maybe they don't have Jeff Flake, but we could get 50 votes if there's enough pressure brought to bear on what's going to happen next year if they don't help out and get this done for a while where we need it.
	I mean, we have slapped the president in the face, figuratively speaking.
	It's time we can do this now.
	And thank you for your fight.
	This is a desperate time.
	And I don't normally get applause at conference.
	But when I said, guys, this little experiment in self-government is very in grave danger of coming to an end.
	Let's fight.
	Let's spend these next two months helping the president.
	And I got a bunch of applause.
	People are ready to fight, but the leadership is not.
	They just say.
	I'm going to get Kevin McCarthy on the line and see if I can't talk to him about it because he's the guy that can make this happen.
	And he should make it happen in the need.
	Listeners, I think you need to add.
	Look, you have a good relationship with the president.
	Why don't you have the president call Mitch McConnell and push him?
	Well, and that's the thing.
	If the House will do our job, then the president has incredible leverage against the Senate to get it done.
	But if we don't even fight to do it in the House, well, then there is no pressure on the Senate.
	We got to get it done.
	We're going to work on that the rest of the week as it unfolds.
	Louis Garmer, thank you, my friend.
	800-941 Sean told.
	It's simple.
	They have the power.
	All they have to do is the work.
	Not that hard.
	Keeping promises.
	The American people will reward you politically for that.
	Listen, I hate to spoil the surprise.
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	The newsmakers you won't hear anywhere else.
	This is the Sean Hannity Show.
	Wrap things up for us here today.
	Wow, what a show we have on Hannity tonight.
	By the way, I just see Jerome Corsi has now said that his attorneys have prepared, it looks like they filed a criminal complaint with the acting attorney general Whitaker on Mueller's special counsel and the DOJ.
	Now, both Jerome Corsi and Roger Stone will join us tonight.
	Hannity tonight, 9 Eastern State UDVR.
	We'll be back here tomorrow.
	See you tonight.
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