The Debate Between Liberal and Conservative - 12.21
Jonathan Gilliam returns and spends some time talking to Constitutional Attorney Danielle McLaughlin to tackle some big questions. McLaughlin, a liberal activist, talks with Gilliam about how Conservatives have challenged her thought and made her political views more effective. The Sean Hannity Show is live weekdays from 3 pm to 6 pm ET on iHeartRadio and Hannity.com. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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This is Jonathan Gillum.
And I am back in the seat for my good buddy Sean Hannity on the Sean Hannity Radio Show, literally broadcast all over the universe.
I can guarantee you if uh the Navy actually saw Martians, which uh there was something last week about some UFOs, they know about this radio show.
I can guarantee you that they know.
So anyway, here we are, back again.
Those of you that don't know who I am, you're gonna find out today.
I'm a former Navy SEAL, Federal Air Marshal, security contractor, and FBI special agent.
I say that every time.
Why do I say that every time?
Because I want you to understand that uh I have some cred when I talk about the things that I talk about.
I'm not just a talking head as most people know.
And I also want you to realize as I talk throughout the day today, that um I never uh put myself out there as uh the end all, the be all know all of all things.
I I try to never expound upon things that you know I really have never done and I don't know.
Because I think it's important that uh we get back to a place in this country where Americans actually represent exceptionalism, morals and ethics, service, and more importantly, unity.
We can't have really have unity without all those other things because what happens when you don't have the exceptionalism, the belief that you are somebody who is going to do great things.
You subscribe yourself to dependency.
If you don't have the morals and ethics, what happens is you you tend to go astray into narcissism and psychopathology and politics.
So this is the truth when we look at this stuff.
And unity without service and without the other things that I just spoke about, you you're never gonna have true unity.
So as I reflected on this show today, and I was talking to Lauren and I talked to Linda about uh how I wanted to do this show today.
I wanted to focus on Christmas.
And we have so many different Christmas shows that you're gonna turn to TV on, you're gonna see all these different things.
And I kept thinking about from I do a show every uh night at 8 p.m. Eastern Stand Time.
It's called The Experts.
I do it uh from my studio and it's Amulcast on uh Facebook, Twitter, and YouTube.
I got a little surprise.
I'm gonna tell everybody about that.
I kind of broke the surprise last night, but I'm actually going to be doing that from one next week.
It's going to be from one to 2 p.m., 1 p.m. to 2 p.m. next week, and then we may adjust that to where we start doing it at 12, but that's on Newsmax, on Newsmax Television.
And so I'll tell you in a little bit, I'll tell you about how you find newsmax.
But uh so this show is going uh that I do call the experts.
I I call it the experts because I don't have talking heads on there.
I only have people that uh I think are uh capable of talking about the actual things that they have experience in.
I uh I don't like uh talking heads that have never actually operated in the field that they uh they want to expound upon.
And the reason is because I feel, as I said there at the beginning, that we've gotten away from uh exceptionalism.
We've gotten away from the morals and ethics, we've gotten away from the service and the and the unity, and we people are just comfortable in their image.
They're comfortable in uh in the perception that you have of them, not the reality of who they are.
And they're actually comfortable with that.
Uh Instagram is a perfect example.
People take 500 pictures until they get the right angle to where they look the best, not how when they look like they should they actually look.
So, yeah.
Ethan knows all about that.
He spends massive amounts of time on Instagram, is that correct?
More than uh time that I work.
He said more than time that he works.
So what I want to cover today is the reality of what Christmas actually is.
Uh the reality of what Christian is uh of Christmas has been to different people that have been in the news and how America is closely tied to this, uh, this spirit of Christmas.
And I'm looking at Fox News uh.com and I'm seeing that um the main headline on there right now is that the world thumbs nose that the U.S. that uh Trump and Haley, uh these are this is the headline off of FoxNews.com, warnings ignored as you uh UN uh condemns moving American embassy to Jerusalem.
This is just interesting to me because I can guarantee you as we look on all the mainstream media that they're gonna be talking about this, and the reality is the U who cares what the UN thinks.
I mean, the reality is the UN does nothing to determine uh what is best for the United States and whether or not the United States is in the best possible shape it could be, and they do nothing for that.
I know as an FBI special agent, I was in charge of the uh special events program where I was the liaison every year to the United Nations General Assembly for a period of time, and I watched the reality of these people come in and go and get up there and speak.
And the reality is, folks, these people, whether it's the UN or Washington, D.C., the majority of them do not have your special, your best interests at heart.
They don't have America's best interest at heart.
And I used to sit there and think as I saw these people walk through that.
The reality is Americans need to have their best interests at heart.
America needs to have its best interest at heart.
And I don't really care what the UN has to say.
All the rage in the news over the past year has been the fact that the Russians supposedly interfered with our election process, which I've still not seen any significant um proof or evidence of that beyond what every other country does.
So why should we care what the UN or the rest of the world thinks when we say we're gonna move our embassy to Jerusalem, which is the capital of Israel.
Why should we care what they say?
They don't they don't affect our daily lives here.
So again, what I'm trying to get towards here is that every year we celebrate Christmas.
Every year uh people go out and they help each other out and they give gifts and they're good to each other and they do the right things for each other, and that lasts for a season, a few weeks actually, and then they go right back into the grind After the drinking of New Year's to the point where you know people are flipping each other off in traffic again, they're not holding the door for each other, and they don't really care about each other.
And I think this year, especially with this massive audience that Sean has uh cultivated throughout his you know 30 something years in radio and television, I think that America and all the Americans,
the citizens in this country, natural born or not, or immigrated here legally, we need to get back to the point where this feeling that we get on Christmas is the feeling that we have all the time.
Folks, if we commit to each other and to treating each other the same way we do for the two weeks, three weeks that we uh around Christmas, you will see a turnaround in this nation.
You will see ethics and morals develop again.
You will see politicians that are actually leaders evolve again in Washington, D.C. You will see the right people step forward to do what needs to be done to take this country back on track.
Yes, I believe we have the right man in the White House.
I believe President Trump is the man to be in the White House, but I believe he's surrounded by a complete cesspool.
I believe he's surrounded by people in and around the White House.
It's like rings of security that the uh that the establishment is put on the president.
You have the inner circle, which is the president, and immediately when you step out of his office, he's surrounded by these globalists, by these uh really I would call them communist, uh establishment members.
You step out of that, you have the Congress and the Senate and the Supreme Court, they're standing against him.
You step out of that, you look at the RNC and the DNC and how they have their fingers in every seat of power in the United States.
Those are two private companies, by the way, in case you didn't know that, the RNC and the DNC, two private companies.
They're not government entities.
That's why George Washington, who we'll be talking about here in a bit, warned against political parties.
And so what we've done is what they have done with the president is the same thing they've done with the with the rest of the United States.
They have blocked our ability to be exceptional, and it all focuses back on them, just like the UN tries to do with the world.
That's why you have wasted money in the U.N. That's why you have people like uh from some of the most violent terroristic sponsoring countries sitting on the on like the in some kind of peace panel.
It's nonsense.
I went to a thing once in the UN, just to give you a little uh hint of what I'm talking about.
I was, you know, I was there for the FBI, but I stood by and watched a conference that was happening, and it was about world hunger, global world hunger, global hunger.
And they had um Harmy Karzai, Bill Gates were sitting up on the stage, several other prominent people, and then you had this whole audience of very wealthy philanthropists.
And I sat there and watched it for over an hour.
Not once did they talk about how we cultivate the soil.
How do we get farmers uh or people that want to be farmers from these uh these areas where there's no agriculture, bring them here, teach them how to farm and send them back.
There was no talk of that.
There's no solutions.
It was all about raising money.
You see, that's the truth is that the world uh that uh at least the world representatives that go to the U.N., the people in Washington, D.C., they're not that much different.
They take real issues and they spin them so that it all comes back to them and making them look important.
And as I we go to break, 800-941-7326, 800-941-7326.
That's the number.
That's 800, 941 Sean, in case you want to spell your numbers, I want you to think about this.
This whole show, I'm gonna be talking to different people about the reality of an exceptional United States, about the exceptional American people, the exceptional America.
And how do we do that?
This mindset that you're in right now that we're going to talk about today, you stay in that.
One last thing before we go to break, Sheep No More, the Art of Awareness and Attack Survival, it's a book I have out right now.
It's all about empowering you.
If you want a stocking stuffer, if your daughter or son are going to be going to college this next semester, if you are live in a city and you don't feel safe, or if you're just an American who wants to be empowered again, go to Amazon and order it right now.
Sheep No More, The Art of Awareness and Attack Survival.
Just look up Sheep No More.
You'll see my mug on the cover of the book.
Order it now.
Order it today.
And you'll get it here in a couple of a couple days or a week, and you will be on the right step to being empowered again.
This is Sean Hannity Radio Show.
Jonathan Gillum filling in for my good buddy.
This is Jonathan Gillam back in for Sean Hannity on the Sean Hannity Radio Show.
And as I was talking there a few minutes ago, we are so close to Christmas that right now you are feeling the Christmas spirit.
And I and I have to, I don't I want to make sure I made myself clear on that intro.
This is the spirit that is going to make America great again.
Yes, our president is the man who's going to turn the ship.
He's turning it.
But he's not going to be the one that docks the ship.
We are.
He is the guy who, like a special forces team, flew out, boarded the ship.
He fast think of Trump as uh this exceptional SEAL who fast roped onto the ship with him and his uh little band of uh pirates, and they got on the ship, they took it over, and he's turning it.
Meanwhile, all the establishment people are jumping off.
Uh the rest of the ships that are out there in the ocean that are nefarious, they don't know what to do.
He's turning that ship.
But Americans are the ones that are the battle force that comes in and guards that ship, surrounds the ship, and man's the ship.
See, that's the way it works.
When you do uh uh ship seizures, um the the the initial force that goes on there takes over the ship, but there's eventually gonna have to be a crew that comes over and mans that ship if you take it over.
And uh that's what America is.
The feeling that you have right now is what you are gonna have to continue to have throughout the rest of the year.
Now, we're gonna we're gonna go to break here in just a minute.
So I want what I want to do is I want to spend uh uh just a few seconds uh talking about again, I talked about my book there a second ago.
I'm not gonna go over this book all day today.
I'll remind everybody about it, but because I was on Sean's show uh a couple of weeks ago when it debuted, and then I actually did a show uh one day where I had uh several great guests talking about security.
I just want to make sure that everybody realizes uh I I sat on this book for um probably over ten years, waiting for the right time to write it.
And why did I wait so long?
Because I didn't think America was in the right mindset uh to actually sit down and start looking at themselves from an attacker's point of view, and that's really what this book does is it it teaches you how to target yourself so that you can understand your own critical areas, the critical times for those areas, the vulnerabilities that can be exploited, and the attacker's avenue of approach uh that somebody will take to attack you.
I'm not I'm talking pedophiles, sexual predators in the workplace, terrorists, uh robbers, burglars, people who will mug you.
I'm talking about all these people, people that will tar will pick you up as a target of opportunity or people that will follow you and stalk you.
You can look at yourself from this perspective.
You first thing you have to do is divide your life up into sectors so that you can pinpoint all those criticalities for each sector of your life.
And this book, Sheep No More, that's available on Amazon right now, Sheep No More, the Art of Awareness and Attack Survival.
It comes from my over 20 years in service to this country in various ways as an attacker and a defender.
And so the technique that I teach is called attack and defend.
And I'm milking that into this part because for one, uh, I get a limited amount of time on this radio show, and I really want to employ everybody to go out there, implore, employee.
I don't know how you say that, but but I want implore, implore everybody.
See, I'm from Arkansas, so we like to make up words.
I want to implore everyone to go out and get this book because here's the key to this.
Yes, this is about securing your your own home life, your own homeland.
But the reality is once you start to be aware, it's like a Pandora's box, and you start to realize exceptionalism is right there.
You start to realize what's going on in this world.
Awareness starts to grow.
800-941-7326.
This is the Sean Hannity Radio Show.
I'm Jonathan Gillam, your resident Navy SEAL and FBI special agent.
Here today, we're going to come back and talk about George Washington and the Christmas when he crossed the Delaware.
We'll be right back.
This is Jonathan Gillam filling in for my good buddy Sean Hannity on the Sean Hannity Radio Show.
I promise I will get the calls 800 941 7326 800, 941 Sean.
That's 800 941 7326.
For those of you that have a short memory span like I do.
So listen, here when I was talking to Lauren about this show today, and I don't I don't know if I said this.
If you're driving, like if you took off early and it's Thursday and you're gonna you're gonna take off tomorrow and you're driving to your relatives, you're gonna want to hear this whole show.
So slow down, put the cruise control on, you know, the speed limit, and listen to this show because it's gonna give you great cannon fodder if you're going to a dinner with your family and uh and they're highly liberal and they're you know, or even if they're conservative, but they're they're talking about how they should fix it and they should do this.
This is the show that you want to listen to because we're gonna talk about things today that's gonna help you reflect and help you develop your own understanding of why uh this country got away from it being exceptional, and how we can get back to it.
So when I was talking to Lauren about developing this show today, uh I said, you know, I really want to have a historian on here to talk about uh George Washington, and uh, you know, he crossed the Delaware on Christmas night into uh the next day.
Uh so she reached out uh and got a hold of uh Tom Maddock.
He's uh historic uh interpreter for Washington Crossing Historical Park and Washington Crossing, Pennsylvania.
And um uh Tom, before I say yep, let me just say this real quick.
Um, you know, having been a SEAL, I've done uh a lot of different training operations.
I was never over in combat over in uh in Afghanistan or Iraq.
I did my time down in Central South America.
But I know how men are when it comes to cold water and when it comes to being cold and doing operations.
I know what it's like when you have terrible gear, uh, but I cannot imagine I want people to think about in modern day terms, right?
This type of of an operation and all the things that could go wrong.
So it's about 11 p.m. on Christmas, Washington's army uh commenced its crossing of the half frozen river, that's the Delaware at three locations, the uh twenty-four hundred sho uh soldiers.
It's two thousand four hundred soldiers, no radios, uh, no flashlights, no satellites up in the air, no C-130 Spectra flying over or Predator drones.
This is 2400 soldiers led by Washington himself.
They braved the icy and freezing river and reached New Jerseyside of the Delaware just before Don.
I think the first word, the first word out of their mouth was, what is that smell?
So I'm just kidding.
I love Jersey.
I love Jersey.
So he Say again.
Exit fifteen.
Exactly.
So um when they got over there, when they got over there, uh just before dawn, uh the other two divisions made up of another three thousand men, um, and the crucial artillery, they failed to reach the meeting point and the appointed time.
So that was their Christmas night.
And so just with with that discussion there, Tom.
What was it what what was it like for these individuals?
What was it like for George Washington?
What was his mindset uh on Christmas night?
Was Christmas the same then as as it is now?
Was Christmas the same?
Um, did it have the same meaning then as it does now?
Was it celebrated the same way?
And what was it like for these soldiers that not they weren't deployed, they were in their own country.
Well, you know, the uh the whole story is in Europe, you're you're pretty good on on leading it up to the battle.
But Washington was desperate.
The revolution was hanging by a thread.
The enlistments are up at the end of the year, and Washington needed a W. He needed a victory, he needed one bad.
This bold stroke to go down and get the Heson to Trenton uh was his way of uh making that happen.
Uh the whole thing was the problem was getting across the river.
The river was about three football fields wide that night, eight hundred and eighty feet to be exact.
It was uh ninety inches deep.
Uh that's that size of the river meant the current was very strong.
That being said, there's also these huge slabs of ice coming down, which were gonna cause Washington problems uh when he returned.
But to get across the river, he had commandeered these boats.
It was bitter cold.
The soldiers had had bad food, they didn't have any tents, their blankets had been left when they'd retreated from Fort Lee in northern New Jersey some a month later, a month earlier.
So these are these guys when some of them was rags wrapped around their feet.
I'm told some were barefoot, the weather is closing in, the river is starting to freeze, uh, what have you, and they start across, and of course, at midnight and midway through the crossing, a nasty northeast storm hit.
So you've got sneak fleet phrasing rain, snow and hail coming down, which impedes everything.
So Washington, of course, had chosen this as a very bold stroke, was hugely determined uh to uh lead his troops to victory.
But um these 2400 men, I'm telling you, when you think about what they what they did, how they persevered, what their commitment to the cause was is truly remarkable.
So you know it's interesting because uh as a Christian and uh somebody who uh and I was told by my uncle who's uh a preacher, I've talked about him on the show before.
I was told by my uncle, if you ever uh ask the Lord for patience, um you you better get ready because it's that that means he's going to build you into a patient person, and it's not easy.
Well, uh it it's interesting because you know, George Washington and the founding fathers and all these individuals had set out to uh start this um this country and this experiment of this new constitution and um and it and it's as if God laid it out and said, I'm gonna make you work for this, uh, because if you want your freedom, I want you to understand how desperately important this actually is.
Well, it it's interesting because if you read the perspective and you read the perspective of the Revolutionary War uh from the British perspective, they made three miscalculations.
And one was that they expected more help from their loyalist buddies, uh people loyal to the crown, but the big key was that they didn't realize that the American colonists would fight as hard as they did for their freedom and their independence.
And that was a major miscalculation, which of course worked out well for the Americans.
But the the to continue the scenario, Washington is is finally gets his troops across the river, even with this storm raging and they start down to Trenton, nine miles south of the landing point, and arrived there shortly after after dawn.
The surprise element uh uh to rise there at just at dawn had been eliminated because they were late, but the Hessians who were suspected were told something was happening, didn't pay attention to it.
So Washington was able to to um get to Trenton uh and the thing that made his his his thing work was that he had taken down eighteen cannon, which are sixteen six times the number of cannon that you'd normally take for a troop that size, and he whipped them right into the high ground, and um he then controlled the battle.
And instead of shooting cannonballs out of these these cannons anywhere from three pounders to up to six pounds, he was shooting grapeshot and canister, which kept the Hessians at bay, because most historical references will tell you that no American lost his life in the Battle of Trenton because they Hessians couldn't get anywhere near the Americans because of Washington's brilliant stroke to take down cannon, put it on the high ground and control the battle.
And that's what eventually did.
Of course, as you know, the battle lasted very little.
It was a very short battle.
Uh only twenty-two Hessians died, including the commander, uh, who took a bullet and and died shortly thereafter.
But he had been given a note early in the morning of December 26th, which indicated that the spy had told him that the American army was coming, which he put in his pocket and did not read.
So there was a number of of um mistakes and assumptions by the Hessians, which turned out to be very fortuitous for Washington and his army.
It's it's so amazing, and it uh if somebody so those are those are issues in battle that you don't those are mistakes that you don't want to make.
But uh somebody I told uh that I was gonna be on this uh show today talking about this, and they sent me Uh a letter that had been written by, and you correct me if I'm wrong, by a uh General uh Schuler, S-A-S-C-H-U-Y-L-E-R, and he wrote it to uh George Washington, and this is the quote that stood up, stood out to me.
It said, Be pleased to make uh my best regards to General Lee, General Gates, and uh gentlemen of your uh of your suit.
I hope we shall meet at a Merry Christmas.
And this was by no means a Merry Christmas.
No, and yet I gotta be honest with you, Jonathan.
I am not familiar with that quote.
So it was written in October um before uh of that year.
And before the before the before the battle?
Yeah, before the battle, it was written in October from what I'm reading.
But was this this an American or a British?
I'm not sure.
I'm not sure.
I just uh There was a because there was a General Schuyler up in the upper in the uh up in the Albany area, uh whether that was him who did that, which would make sense, I don't know.
So the interesting thing though, when when I read the description of this and what uh George Washington, when I was doing the research of talking to you today today, the the research that I did, but some of the stuff that he dealt with is exactly what we dealt what we deal with today.
Um when you look at um uh he his his command was not unified.
Um the the uh supply channels for food, arms, and pay had broken down.
Uh the citizens soldiers decided to come and go as they pleased a lot of the times.
And basically there was just a breakdown in the understanding of what the military actually was, and then here's the biggest thing was when you take those different things that are annoying, and uh you put in there the political appointees who a lot of these were uh uh young people who were rich, but they had came from rich families, and uh so they wanted to they wanted them to be made uh high ranking uh military individuals.
Um that is one of the biggest problems that we have today in the in our military is not necessarily that uh political appointees are getting their kids made high rank, but the political appointees are the biggest problems that we have with our military.
We can't fight a a proper war.
And that's what uh I loved about this was George Washington dealt with all this stuff, but yet at the same time, he still fought a tactical war.
Well, you know, and and that's you're absolutely right.
It's interesting because Washington was learning on the job.
Uh he was learning how to be a leader, he was learning how to be a military man, he had to organize an army.
There was no military experience, there was no industrial military complex, if you would.
There was no structure.
These people came from booksellers from you know, one was a Quaker, converted Quaker, General Green.
So these guys had to learn how to be leaders, they had to learn how to be military people, uh disciplined, it was absolutely unheard of.
So Washington, besides doing all that stuff, trying to keep an army together so it wouldn't evaporate, also had to fight the enemy.
So the number of things that Washington dealt with very successfully was truly remarkable.
And he may not have been a military person brought up in the military, like coming through West Point or Annapolis, but man, he really did a wonderful job in pulling it all together, keeping it all together, um, and then coming out with a with a victory.
How much do we know about uh the morale of these soldiers when that night and when they crossed?
The fact that it was Christmas, you know, like you said, some of them didn't have shoes, which I don't know how that's possible.
I know, I I couldn't I agree with you.
Um the morale, I think a lot of it is it it's very logical.
I mean, Washington has started out in the defense of New York in August 24th with about 20,000 men.
When he crosses the Delaware into pen into Pennsylvania on December seven, eight, and nine, he's down to about three thousand five hundred, four thousand at best.
Um these are some hardcore guys, some of the people had gone home, some of the people who'd come back in, as you mentioned.
Um so it was um it was uh catches catch can.
Um but um the morale um uh was was uh predictable because of lack of pay, lack of food, lack of clothing, medicine was was shaky at best.
But it's interesting.
Um the the the fire of liberty, the fire burning in these guys' bellies was what kept him going.
But you know, I've read that one of the biggest boosts to morale was Thomas Payne's pamphlet called The American Crisis.
And that was read to the troops on December twenty-third uh by their officers.
It was it had been written during the retreat through New Jersey, published in Pel Philadelphia, then brought up to the troops.
And of course, that's the pamphlet that starts out.
These are the times that try men's souls.
You know, and the Sunshine Patriot and the Summertime Soldier shrink from their duty.
Those who stand it now will be loved by men and woman.
It's uh that apparently was a huge boost to morale.
That's unbelievable.
That listen.
No, go listen, I got to cut it right there, but Tom, uh, I can't thank you enough for coming on.
This is exactly what everybody needs to hear.
Tom, you got it, buddy, and I'll have you on again sometime.
I can't thank you enough for this.
This history is what people need to hear.
Thank you very much.
Tom Maddox.
Agree with you more.
Historical interpreter for Washington Crossing, Historical Park and Washington Crossing, Pennsylvania.
This is Jonathan Gillam.
Man, what a story.
I hope that motivates you.
We're going to come back and we're going to talk to some good friends of mine, uh, Karen and Bob Vaughn here in just a minute.
This is Jonathan Gillam on the Sean Hannity Radio Show, 800-941-7326.
Let's make America great again.
Let's do it.
This is Jonathan Gillum filling in for my good buddy Sean Hannity.
And uh we got it real quick before we go to another break.
Uh, I just want to leave everybody with this before we come back and talk to uh Karen and Bob Vaughn.
Uh they're the parents of a fallen uh Navy SEAL who died in Afghanistan August 6, 2011.
And you know, after listening to that about Washington and all the things that his troops were going through and that he went through, it's going to be a great contrast to talking to uh Karen and Bob Vaughn.
But make sure as you're driving down the road that you go to Amazon.com and get Sheep No More, The Art of Awareness and Attack Survival.
Go get it.
I'm telling you right now, this book will change your life.
Um and also, the experts, my show every night, 8 p.m. Eastern uh Standard Time on Facebook, Twitter, and YouTube.
Next week it's gonna be on Newsmax from one to two.
This is Jonathan Gillam back on the Sean Hannity Radio Show with uh my favorite.
There's like literally I say this every time there's like 50 people back here monitoring and working this show.
Um minus 48.
You got Lauren Ethan back here with me today, uh running the running the whole show and uh making it worth 40 or 50 people, right?
Right.
You're worth 40 or 50 people, Lauren plus two more.
So uh so that's an inside joke.
So, you know uh I've been talking about uh my next two guests uh for quite a while.
I love them both, they're amazing people.
And uh I have renamed uh it's Karen and Billy Vaughn, but I've renamed uh Billy for some reason today, I've renamed him Bob.
I don't know why I've been calling Billy, I've been calling you Bob all day.
I don't know why.
But um so uh it's it's always great to not be called I've been called worse before.
Well, it's great to have you guys on.
I got to see you at the Christmas party last week, and um so for the for people that don't know who you are and and I just can't imagine that they don't know who you are.
You're the parents of um the fallen Navy SEAL Aaron Vaughn and the co-founders of Operation 300.
You you actually co-founded that with your daughter Tara Baldwin.
And uh you both look, I just wrote a book called Sheep No More, The Art of Awareness and Attack Survival.
People can go get it on Amazon right now.
But you guys, and that's one of the hardest things I've ever done.
You both have written a book.
And uh that's pretty amazing when you think about it.
Uh let's see, uh Billy, your book is Betrayed, the shocking uh true story of extortion 17 is told by a Navy SEAL's father.
And Karen is author of a new book, uh World Changer, A Mother's Story.
And I can't thank you guys enough.
I I wanted to bring you all on.
I thought about after I saw you at the Christmas party.
I wanted to do the show today about uh Christmas and the reality of what Christmas is, how the spirit that we have during the Christmas, uh three weeks really that we celebrate Christmas now, um, how that's the reality.
If we want to make this country uh great again, that's the attitude and the spirit that we need to have three hundred and sixty-five days out of the year so that we can completely create the unity.
And I just wanted to ask you all, you know, having been a seal, Never been in combat, but having been a SEAL and understanding the reality, uh, especially when I was in the FBI here and going through doors where people may or may not have guns on the other side, um, understanding what I'd be giving up, and I'm sure Aaron knew exactly and and uh charged into battle uh a very happy man uh charging into battle and into these dangerous situations is what seals live for.
But I wanted to ask you all a very tough question.
And um after uh the death of Aaron, and I I'm a Christian, I believe that uh you're you're never dead, you live forever.
Um once you're born, death is a doorway that we have to go through.
But what has changed uh in significance to the Christmas holiday for you all?
I know that's a hard question, but um when you look at it reality from a Christian perspective, uh the reality is death is uh as a tough but a very beautiful thing in that of the location where they are now, and uh how significant is uh Christmas for you all now.
Well, uh let me let me just say something here, Karen.
Uh it's it obviously it's very significant.
It's uh you you described it very well, uh Jonathan, by the way, and and uh thank you for having us today.
But uh it it is.
It's it's where we all want to be.
Um but for us who are left behind, uh we're still sad.
I I know Aaron is at home with the Lord uh based on the promise that Jesus made, based on uh the decision that Aaron made to receive the gift of salvation.
Uh it's it's we the ones who are left behind who are in the temporary place.
We're in we're in a place that that we don't belong, so we're not home.
And and we do miss Aaron, we mess him very much.
Um we still put his stocking out every Christmas, just like we have since the first first Christmas that uh that we had him.
He was our firstborn, our only boy, our only son, and uh we still put his Christmas out, and uh and there uh I'm his stalking out, and uh and there's a there's a place uh there's there's just a hole there.
There's a there's a hole there in everything you do.
And even at the same time, there's a there's this there is a joy there, even in all the sadness, because he is where uh if you have children, you all and you and you're a believer, you always pray that your children will end up.
And uh he is there.
We just never thought, I never thought about how the home going would be, you know.
Yeah.
Karen.
Yeah, I you know, I feel the same way.
Christmas is really difficult to get through, and and I'll tell you why, Jonathan.
It's because for doing this.
I love you guys.
You know, love you too.
But it's because of this, you know, like what throughout your life, you just you look forward to the holidays for one reason, because those are times where you get to break away from all the hustle and bustle of life and just spend that quality time with your family.
So, you know, Christmas is one of those holiday seasons where we get a lot of extra time where it's so family centric.
And so when you have a huge gaping hole in your in your you know, world of your family, it makes it makes it a very difficult time of year.
But at the same time, Billy and I are just what he said.
We know where Aaron is.
We know that we'll be with him again one day.
We know that even though he died 7,000 miles away from all of us who loved him, he took his last breath in the arms of the one who loved him more than any of us could have.
And and that's our hope, and that's our joy and holidays.
We try to celebrate him because we got a lot of wonderful people still here in our life in this family, and and we want to stay here and present for them, and that's what we try to do.
Well, you know what's interesting about this, um doing this interview is probably j not as hard, but it's hard on me to do this interview as well as uh have you all answer these questions, but I think they're important questions.
Um but just uh this is what's interesting about uh I my father actually was born on Thanksgiving and died on Christmas, if believe it or not.
And I was thirteen years old.
I was with him uh when he died.
Uh I I remember walking over to him and uh opening his eyes up and and uh realizing at 13 years old the difference between life and death and the presence here and the presence there.
And um one of the things that uh that uh I've noticed out of that is what came out of my father was uh had an IQ of over 160 but was had a terrible time in life, uh having been uh verbally abused by one parent and uh spoiled by the other.
But what came out of his death was probably far more um ex uh uh uh of an extreme impact on this world far beyond what his life was actually uh capable of of inspiring.
And when I look at like the books that you've written, when I look at Operation 300, what your daughter Tara has done, and uh it it's I mean it's pretty amazing the way death in such a sad state is such an amazing door for incredible things to to happen.
So I I just want you all to I want to give you a chance to talk about Operation 300 and uh about how important it is and how people can donate to that.
Okay.
Karen Karen, let me say something just r right quick on uh that that is true.
Everything you said right there is true.
Same way with Aaron.
Aaron Aaron's life since he's been gone has made an impact on this world that I'm sure he could never have made were still alive.
And that's in my opinion, that's why God has to be in control, is in control, and has to make decisions like that because we we couldn't I would never give my boy up for anything.
I would never give him up.
But I know the Lord mu loved him more than I ever could.
And the Lord makes those decisions, and um and we trust that the Lord knows best, and he does, and we trust that everything has to go by the throne of God before it happens.
Let me do let me just say one thing there, Billy, because go ahead.
You know, uh uh I I'll say this from the perspective uh that Aaron had is that um you didn't give him up that you raised him right, and I always say if you discipline your children, you're gonna raise a disciplined adult.
And he's a man that charged in into battle, um, he made that decision and uh God was with them.
That's a listen, a parent can't do any more than that.
Yeah, and God is gracious.
Thank you, thank you for that.
And God, but but God is gracious, in spite of our mistakes of r of raising children.
He knows we're not perfect parents.
Uh he's very gracious, and and uh and uh he he he allowed Aaron to be uh to grow be a great American like he does like he does so many other millions.
And uh Operation 300 came out of that, and Operation 300 uh you know now uh we have six camps scheduled for uh 2018.
We had six this past year.
The first three camps are are already maxed out.
We're already uh turning kids away.
We have well over two hundred kids on our roster.
And what did explain to people exactly what it is, what Operation 300 is.
That's what I was gonna say.
We didn't tell them what it was.
It is it is a camp.
It is a camp where Aaron left behind two children and in the aftermath, you know, with uh his his widow wondering uh who's gonna teach them what their dad would have.
Tara came up with a vision, had the vision for this camp, and we bring in little boys and little girls who've lost their dads in the military in service to our country.
They come in for a three-day adventure camp, they spend those three days with a mentor who would have been about the age of their father, not an old man like me.
And he does things with them that uh, you know, that that dads do with their sons and daughters, uh fishing, shooting, sailing, campfires, and those kind of things.
Uh and uh go ahead, Karen.
Oh no, that's that's it.
And you know, the the greatest thing that's happened, Jonathan, is is we also we also bring their mothers in and we put them up for a weekend of relaxation, and the things that we planned for this camp to be and to expose the children to have ended up being the secondary things to the beautiful things that have happened.
I I've told Lauren this story one time, but um like like we bring these kids and we pair them up, like Billy said, with father-age male mentors, and we let them just have a weekend of living large, and I think that our family got what these children needed more than most because we experienced this loss, and and so it's not a grief camp, it's nothing like that.
I often say that these kids, if their clothes are worth uh washing and trying to re try into uh to to make where the kids can wear them again at the end of the camp, we didn't do our job because these kids just live large, they laugh, they run, they play, they chop firewood, they build if you just do all the things that rowdy young kids ought to get to do, and a lot of times the only person who really gives them access to do those things is their father.
But one situation we had a couple years ago was so unbelievable.
We had this young boy in who never really had a relationship with his father because his parents divorced when he was very young.
And so he came to the camp.
He qualified because his dad was his dad died and he qualified for the camp and he came and he was just kind of meandering around.
He had this he had a mentor who was in special forces, Jonathan, who was a SEAL, and and uh and this they you know talked throughout the weekend about loss, about things like that, but they didn't have any idea what their connection was until Sunday.
And on Sunday, that the mentor finally asked the kid about his dad, and he found out that his that this mentor was his father's best friend when they were in the teens together.
Wow.
And so that I mean they just couldn't even believe it.
These things happen all the time.
And so now these two have this this uh Navy SEAL has come in and he's he's uh introduced his kid to all of his father's best friends and they're telling him stories about his.
Can you imagine what that's done for this young teenage boy?
And so things like that happen all the time.
Just mysterious, crazy, incredible things where where these kids just have experiences every single time.
When kids come back the next year after they've been to the camp the year before, when we see them come in on a Friday afternoon, I cannot believe the the uh just chill chills to the bone when you see these kids launch off the vehicles they come in on and come running from seven years old to eighteen years old, come running to their mentors' arms to hug them, and then the way they cry when it's time to leave, and just depressed and sad that it's time to go home because they've built such relationships.
So the relationships have been one of the most incredible things, not the things they get to do, but the relationships they've built with these mentors.
I got about a a minute left before we go to break.
Uh what would it take?
You said you hey you're turning kids away.
What would it take to get the rest of those kids there?
Um that's a good question because right now we're having six camps a year and it's very taxing on our volunteers.
The camps are very expensive.
Uh, you know, the thing of it is, Jonathan, money helps everything.
Uh and and right now, our biggest expense I was uh this is kind of tied with what you said, but our biggest expense is getting the kids there.
They come from all over the country.
They've come from Alaska, they come from Hawaii, they've come from as close as Florida.
But it takes a lot of money to get the kids here, and and right now we don't have an airlines uh a connection with an airlines who has given us a break on tickets.
Uh it's it's costing us way over a hundred thousand dollars a year just to get the kids to get to the camp before we ever spend them a penny on them here when they're there.
So um if anybody out there listening has a connection with with an airline that could help us with that because we've not been able to crack that nut.
Okay.
And uh obviously, uh obviously uh as I said, the expense of the camps and uh with our volunteers we're trying to figure out.
Tara and I actually discussed uh going to seven or eight camps this next year, but we just didn't think we could take it on right now.
So uh let me ask you real quick.
Yeah, go ahead.
The website real quick.
I got like five seconds.
Yeah, operation three hundred.com.
Operation three hundred dot com.
You got it, guys.
Thank you.
I love you both.
Merry Christmas.
I wish I could be with you, but my you're in my prayers as always, and uh you know that Aaron's looking down at us right now, smiling.
Thank you, Jonathan.
Merry Christmas.
You got it.
That my friends is American exceptionalism right there.
This is Jonathan Gillum filling in uh for my good buddy Sean Hannity.
This is Jonathan Gillam back in.
I got uh about a minute here.
I just want to throw a couple of things out at you.
That was uh Karen and Billy Vaughn that we're talking to there a minute ago, the parents of Aaron Vaughn who died in uh 2011, Navy SEAL.
And uh you can go to their uh website, Operation300.com if you want to help out.
Um this would be a great thing for Jet Blue if they ever want to get involved like they did with Chris Kyle.
That'd be great.
Uh the other thing is I want to tell you real quick about my book again, Sheep No More, The Art of Awareness and Attack Survival.
You can go to Amazon.com and get that.
You will not be sorry.
It is a stalking stuffer, and more than that, it's something that you're gonna want to take and carry around with you.
And along with that, if you go to Vets Manufacturing, that's Vets V E T S M F G dot com and put in code JTG 10, you can go on there and order all kinds of backpack body armor and first aid kits and stuff.
Women, kids, they you need to go and check this out.
We'll be right back.
800-941-7326.
This is Jonathan Gillam.
Now listen, let's go ahead.
I want to spin that up.
I want to play that before I bring Israel on.
Uh I think there was uh I confused him there a second ago when I asked for that.
But I want to play this.
Uh those of you got a little taste of that already.
This is from Charlie Brown.
Before I bring Israel tutorial on, uh, you don't want to miss this.
If you this we're just this whole show is full of incredible interviews.
But I want to play this real quick because next to listening to about uh George Washington and about um what he went through and listened to Billy and Karen Vaughn talk about what Christmas means to them now.
I can't think of anything I've seen on television over the past well, in my lifetime, 48 years.
I like to say I'm 2028, but uh I can't think of anything that really spelled out what Christmas is all about than on the peanuts gang, uh Charlie Brown, when they were talking about Christmas, and this is Linus.
Go ahead.
And there were the same country shepherds, abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night, and lo, the angel of the Lord came upon them.
And the glory of the Lord shall round about them.
And they were sore afraid, and the angel said unto them, fear not.
For behold, I bring you tidings of great joy, which will be to all people.
For unto you is born this day in the city of David, a Savior, which is Christ the Lord.
And this shall be a sign unto you.
You shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger.
And suddenly there was with the angel, a multitude of the heavenly host, praising God, and saying, Glory to God in the highest, and on earth, peace, goodwill toward men.
That's what Christmas is not about, Charlie Brown.
Listen, uh I first of all, the fact that that is in a child's voice, uh so innocent, uh speaking those true words is amazing.
The fact that that was on television is amazing in this day and age.
And I have to ask, as I as I listen to that again, and I I just love that description um of how simple uh of a concept this thing that we call Christmas is actually about.
Why?
I'm asking the American people that listen to this show right now, why have we gotten away from that spirit?
And the spirit that you have over the next two, three weeks or that's been going on, is what you have to continue throughout the year.
I'm gonna continue to say that over and over again.
Now, I'm gonna bring in my good buddy.
I just met him a while back, Israel Del Toro.
Before I have uh Israel before you talk, or DT, everybody calls him DT.
Uh, let me just tell everybody a little bit about what happened to you, and then I want to play a little part from when you received the Pat Tillman Award.
And for those that don't know, DT um was in Afghanistan.
He was a JTAC, which is um just for the civilians out there, just so you kind of know what it is.
There, those are the guys that go into a combat situation and literally control the aircraft uh that are flying around in support of all that's going on.
They have become uh integral parts of almost every major uh operation or special forces unit that there is.
Uh, they're so sought after.
And they're one of the the biggest um targets for the enemy as well, because they know if they get the JTAC, they're also gonna disrupt the operation.
So uh unfortunately, DT was uh in Afghanistan, and uh he actually uh got hit by uh their their Humvee got hit by an ID.
This was in 2005, and he sustained burns over 80% of his body and never never slowed him down.
And let's just play uh what he had to say there at the end of the the Pat Tillman award when he received that award.
I think this says it better than anything.
So to all my wounded injured those service members, disabled civilians, or anyone who's having a bad day, I will stay strong for the ones who cannot.
I will fight for the ones who cannot fight.
I will never quit on you, and I will finish strong.
This is my promise.
This is my pledge.
And thank you for letting this guy we just had a bad day at work.
Feel like someone special tonight.
Thank you.
Now let that put into perspective, folks, for you when you think you have a bad day and uh you're a truck driver and you're trying to park your truck and it's not working out or you're having to go to a digital uh logbook instead of uh writing it in paper or if you're a nurse that's listening or a doctor that's listening or heaven forbid an attorney and you're having a bad day think about this uh DT was hit a uh uh an IED in the ground and was uh blown up and
burnt over 80% of his body.
Israel Del Toro, my good friend DT, it is always an honor to have you on any of these shows.
And I couldn't think of a better reason to bring you on, not necessarily to talk about combat, but to talk about what does Christmas mean to you after all this?
You know, the first Christmas after you had your, well, it's compared to the Christmas before this happened and then the Christmas after.
And then now that you've come from then to here in 2005 now to 2017, what is Christmas for you, buddy?
Well, for me, you know, first of all, thanks for having me on the show, man.
It's awesome.
Always talking to you.
You got it.
Being on the show.
But for me, I know like my Christmas before my injury, I was gone.
You know, I never really got to spend Christmas with my son.
So the Christmas after my injury really put things in perspective, because, you know, when you're an operator, man, you just out there taking care of the mission, doing the mission, taking care of your guys.
And that, cause that's the whole thing.
That's your job.
So when I was hurt, I didn't, I just didn't see myself as, as this hard charging guy.
I just saw myself as a father for my, for my son to be there for him, to see him open up presents.
Cause I never got to see that before.
So to, To see that, it really brought a lot of perspective to me.
And how do you think, you know, as far as, you know, I know you're saying that you don't look at yourself as a hard-charging guy.
I mean, you are a hard-charger.
You're amazing.
I met you, and I think you're just, you should be in hard-charging.
If there was actually something in the dictionary that said hard-charging, it should be a picture of you next to it.
But for the service members that are out there, for the civilians that are out there trying to figure out, you know, after Christmas is over, and this spirit, because the whole show I've been talking about this, about how we want to talk about how to make America great again, how important it is not to let go of this exceptionalism that we have during this Christmas period.
What's your advice to the American people in how they can continue down this road of unity, ethics, morals, service, and exceptionalism that we have during this Christmas season?
You know, it is weird.
You know, the Christmas season, you see the best that everyone is, you know, when it comes to caring and feeling exceptional and, you know, taking care of each other.
And then Christmas ends, and then Aaron goes back to hating each other, you know, forgetting about goodwill and all that.
My thing is, like, I guess the best word is, like, the last words my dad told me is, like, before he passed away, it's like, just take care of your family.
And family doesn't mean literally your wife, your husband, brother, sister.
It means everyone out there.
Everyone's your family.
You know, everyone's, you know, all the people out there.
Take care of them.
You know, be that great person that people aspire to be to, you know.
As little kids, we always looked at as superheroes, you know, comic books.
Man, I want to be like that.
I want to be super.
I want to be people to look up to.
And somewhere as we grow up, we forget about that, those values, how we had, how we always want to be great.
And maybe there's a reason why all these superhero movies are coming back out.
And for people to strive to be that amazing person, to people to look up to.
And that's just the goal, just to try and get to that.
I'm not saying that your whole goal is to, man, I just want to be awesome.
No, your goal should just be, hey, I'm there for you, man.
If you need me, I'm here.
And now that you have, and again, I didn't know you before this.
I know you now, and you're a humble guy.
I'm assuming that you were humble then.
What is it like when people come up to you and, you know, everybody wants to carry a conversation on with you because they're enamored by you and they want to hear about you.
They want to tell you how much they think about you.
What is the impact that you see now that you have, despite the, you know, the burns and the presence that you have as somebody who has been in war and been injured in war, what is the thing that when people come up to you that keeps you going and keeps you engaged with people?
Because I don't see you as somebody who pushes people away.
You're a person that engages.
Yeah, you know, for me, it's still weird.
It really is.
Because I guess I don't see myself in that light like other people see me in that light.
But what keeps me going is when I hear a complete stranger come up to me and like, sir, are you Master Sergeant del Toro?
You know, are you Israel del Toro?
I was like, yes, sir.
I was like, I heard your story and it totally changed my life.
You know, I was the point of giving up and then I hear your story and it completely changed my life.
And that's when I was like, holy cow, you know, I really have an impact on these people like this.
And that's when, you know, it really hits me.
And that's what keeps me going.
Because I know my story or what I talk about may not hit everybody.
But if I hit that one person that's really, really having a bad day, that's ready to give up on life.
And it changes.
It turns them around just by hearing my story.
Everything I went through, any pain, any, you know, weak structure, sir.
surgery you know therapy rehabilitation everything I went through is worth it just to be able to help that one person you know feel like they can still keep going.
You know, I listened to, and I cannot remember right now, my brain is dead, I cannot remember what the guy's name was, motivational speaker.
And he talked about how powerful we are created, that we don't even realize how powerful we're created.
And I think you're an example that you were thrust into that.
I think people that rise to the occasion that we call heroes when there's a fire, law enforcement when they've got to rush into the firefight.
You know, this comes out in people, this power that exists inside of us.
You've experienced it, right?
What do you, again, I'm asking this advice because I think you're the one that can actually verbalize it better than most.
You were thrust into this.
You were faced with your, and you told me the story about how you got out of the Humvee and you tried to run back to where there was a creek that was about 200 yards away and you were on fire.
You fell down.
One of your buddies grabbed you while you were burning, put you in the water, and then put that out.
And then you were laying on your back and you were like, this sucks.
And you thought you were going to die in Afghanistan.
Well, you didn't die in Afghanistan.
And you've now been thrust forward into this spotlight.
What would you tell people when it comes to stepping up to the plate?
How do you do that?
And how do you, when it comes time to ignore the pain, when it comes time to ignore the heavy burden ahead, how do you reach inside?
Where do you reach inside and grab this exceptionalism?
You know, I would say people always, you know, tell me, it's like, DT, I don't know how you can do it.
I don't think I could do what you went through.
And I always say, like, you never know.
It's like, I never saw myself as being this person.
I always saw myself as, you know, being an operator, being out there, you know, calling the airstrikes.
I never saw myself as being this person.
as a person that'll be out here motivated and inspired and help people help change lives because you never know uh you just you just got to believe in yourself and and to find that fire to keep pushing and not stopping you know everyone has it you just gotta find it.
You got to find what drives you.
And for me, it was my son.
Yeah.
I wanted to show him no matter what.
Just put in front of you.
If you keep that positive mind, you can you can accomplish anything.
So my my strength, my spark, you can say it's my son.
But everyone's different.
Someone's gonna be, man, this guy said I can never do this.
I'm gonna prove them wrong.
Or you know, they said I will never get out of here out of the out of the slums of the ghetto.
But here I am, you know.
Got to run, buddy.
Listen, I gotta I gotta run, God bless you.
I'm gonna have you on again.
I'll finish some stuff for you when we come back.
You got it.
God bless you.
Sean Hannity Radio Show.
That was Israel del Toro.
Jonathan Gillam here filling in for my good buddy Sean Hannity.
For those of you that don't know me, I hope you've been listening to this whole show.
Uh former Navy SEAL, Federal Air Marshal, Security Contractor, an FBI special agent now, host of my own show called The Experts.
I do it every night on Facebook, Twitter, and YouTube.
But next week, I'm going to be doing it on Newsmax from 1 p.m. to 2 p.m.
And you can watch that on Direct TV, that's channel 349 on the Dish Network, that's channel 216.
Verizon Fios, which I have, that's channel 615 or 115 if you uh don't like to watch an HD for some strange reason.
And on ATT uh Viva or Uverse, that's channel 1220.
And of course, NewsmaxTV.com.
You can watch it live streamed.
So that's going to be next week.
Man, you want to talk about this is like a Steve Jobs where they created a computer in the garage.
I created a TV show in my apartment in New York, and now it's going to be on Newsmax.
Also, go get my book, Sheep No More, The Art of Awareness and Attack Survival.
Order it on Amazon right now.
We'll be right back.
This is Jonathan Gill.
I'm filling in for my good buddy Sean Hannity on the Sean Hannity Radio Show.
And you know, I was thinking today as uh Lauren and I were putting this show together, and uh was wanting to talk about how I have been the whole time about American exceptionalism and the reality of what we are as a nation,
the unity that we feel, the morals and ethics that we exude, um, the uh service that we have to each other during the month of December leading up to and just after Christmas, it how that is really who we should be as a country, as a nation, as a citizenry, as individuals on on 365 days of the year.
And you know, one of the things that we do in this country is we're so divided.
Uh we're divided by our color.
We're divided by our cultures.
Um we're not just divided by these things.
It's pushed on us on a daily basis where we struggled for many, many, many years thank uh thanks to a God given constitution and rights, uh, God granted rights in this constitution and the founding fathers that put this thing together so eventually um true equality could grow.
We we struggled for so many years to get to the point that we are now, but now it's thrust upon us because politically and in the media it makes sense to have us divided because they can then cause us to um you know to have uh to make the headlines by being anxious and by being upset with each other, and that's what gets people voted and and splits up the money and so on and so forth.
I kept thinking, you know, every Thursday I come on here, and at first it was Rick Unger, and then it was Geraldo, and then my good buddy uh Daniel McLaughlin was uh would come in here, and I thought, you know, we debate every Thursday about uh liberal versus conservative.
Of course, on my news feed on uh Twitter and Facebook, they get slammed.
I'm sure on their news feeds, I get slammed.
But I thought to myself, let's talk about Christmas and this exceptionalism and talk about what uh a liberal thinks about um how great this country is versus a conservative.
You'll start to see that there's no real difference here.
There's differences in the way that we look at it.
And I thought, well, Rick Unger's too old, I don't want to bring him on.
I thought Geraldo is probably out, you know, laying in the sun somewhere.
So I figured, you know, I know who I want on here.
Somebody who's a mom, uh, somebody who is working towards her American citizenship.
So she's studying this stuff right now.
Somebody who uh is a a constitutional expert and uh co-wrote a book, which is interesting because when I read this title, it makes me think she's a conservative.
The Federal Society, how conservatives took the law back from the liberals.
And the only there's only one thing I can find bad about her, really, is the fact she's an attorney.
But well, I'll forgive her for that.
Daniel McLaughlin, who I'm on here every Thursday now with.
Thank you for being here.
Jonathan, it's such a pleasure to see you.
How are you?
I'm laughing here.
I'm the lawyer thing.
I'm doing good.
And for now that I have you in studio.
So I make a joke every now and then when we're on, and Sean never gets this joke.
I always say when I'm on opposite of you because your accent, I sound even more stupid than I really am.
Um and Sean always thinks I'm insulting you because of that, but I'm actually giving you you have this New Zealand accent.
Um the Hobbits are from New Zealand, I guess.
Uh is Gary Jackson from New Zealand or no.
Uh uh Peter Jackson, yes, yes.
No, he is.
I don't know who Gary Jackson is.
I don't know either, but we can find out after the show.
I'll uh I'll Google it for you.
Maybe Lauren can do that and I'm gonna make sure I think Gary Jackson was a steal and worked for Blackwater.
Oh, well, there you go.
There you go.
Slightly different career paths, but uh equally interesting, I'm sure.
Yes, Peter Jackson's a QE, he's the one who put the uh the Hobbit and the Lord of the Rings onto the silver screen.
How big is New Zealand?
Uh it's about the size of Colorado uh by land area, and it has about four million people in it.
Um it's got one of the biggest diasporas in the world, actually.
I have no idea what is that?
That is people who are expats who are living outside of New Zealand even.
What do you call it again?
The diaspora.
Um that's the last five dollar word I'm gonna use today.
Uh you are a lot of us are short.
I'm short.
I know it's it's difficult.
We're on radio, so no one can see me right now, but I'm not the tallest person, and we do actually call my parents hobbits as a sort of uh kind nickname, if you would a loving nickname.
I asked you this the other day.
Do all New Zealanders hug like steel workers?
Because you you give a hug.
I swear if you close your eyes and let Daniel give you a hug, you're gonna think that she's this giant steel worker that just came off of a building.
You're an amazing hugger.
Well, you know what?
I was an engineer before I did the lawyer thing.
So I I wore I was spent a lot of years in overalls, uh climbing all over planes and various other things.
But you know what?
I think you should hug people like you mean it.
Yeah.
Uh and actually uh my husband, the first date with my husband, it didn't go that well in his head until I hugged him at the end and he thought, oh, maybe she I think this girl likes me and that's a good one.
And she can defend me.
Yes, more to the point.
Yes, just with hugging.
Oh my lord.
So let me ask you this.
You're becoming an American citizen, and you are um somebody who is very passionate about the Constitution.
Um you have fallen uh on the side of the the liberal side, but as we discuss quite often, and I've talked about this on my show before, that not necessarily these lights, but if you look at a lot a lot of lights um that are high up in the ceiling, there's several different ways you could change that light bulb.
You could do it with a stick that has a suction cup on it, or you go get a ladder.
Uh or you could do it like the government where they hire uh a contracting company owned by one of the politicians to do a study on it and then go out and employ ten million people to pick up the building and turn it while one person holds the bible.
Right.
So ultimately, some people are gonna say, let's just get a stick and put it up there and with the suction cup.
Other people are gonna say, let's get the ladder.
And that's really where uh the divide happens with liberal and conservative.
A lot of the times we want the same outcome, or we we we have an idea of what is most effective, but we lose that in the argument between I'm liberal, I have to think this way, or I'm conservative, I have to think this way.
And setting all that aside, uh, what do you see now coming to this country?
What makes this country exceptional?
Uh what drew drew you to this country, and what do you want the American people to see that were born here that didn't immigrate here?
Um, the way that you see the country.
Sure.
Um, gosh, so much to unpack there.
Uh long story short, I arrived here about 15 years ago um to work for Vale Resort selling lift tickets.
Um so uh, you know, very uh beginnings pretty you know, pretty humble, uh earning about nine dollars an hour.
I came here with a huge amount of student debt because I put myself through college.
Uh lived in Vail for a couple of years, uh, and then I decided I wanted to go to law school, so I put myself through law school, uh, started working a firm, uh, worked for a judge, uh, co-wrote a book, moved to New York City, uh, and continue to write and think about the constitution, about politics, about policy, and how those three things sort of con uh triangulate.
And so here I am in studio with you today, and I guess Sean is off Christmas shopping or something, so you know, lucky me.
Maybe, maybe.
Uh he didn't disclose where he was going for Christmas.
Um so many things.
I mean, I feel this country's given me so many opportunities, and I'm trying to give back.
When you when you when you talk about giving back and what the country's given you, do you look at that from a conservative or or excuse me from a liberal standpoint?
Because I guess what I'm trying to say is that when we talk offline, we're not talking about liberal or conservative.
We're talking about effective, effective ideas.
Absolutely.
Uh I don't think about my contribution in terms of its political uh perspective.
I think about it as being a part of important discussions, discussions with people who think differently than me, and it allows me to pressure test what I believe and why.
Um, you know, the book that you mentioned when you introduced me, really I immerse myself within into const uh into conservatism.
And what I've loved about the work and and being on air with people like you and people like Sean is you're constantly challenging me.
And I think that's really important because we only get better when we are talking, when we are exchanging ideas, and we're trying to collectively move this country forward.
Do you find it like I do sometimes uh difficult to term yourself as a liberal?
I find it sometimes difficult to term myself as a conservative, not because I don't have what you would term conservative values, but because I I just can't find uh effective answers under a definition uh because you can't say that everything that is gonna work is going to work from that viewpoint.
I tr I couldn't agree more, and I think we do put ourselves and maybe each other uh in boxes, and I think that can be problematic because then we're looking at the label and not the person or the ideas or what they're trying to achieve.
So I I think it is a problem.
To your earlier points, you know, it helps in media.
Um you're setting someone uh person A who's on the right against person B and you create conflict and it it it creates excitement and uh this makes for good TV in a lot of ways.
The conversations that I really love are where I find common ground with people who I might not have thought that I would have.
You know it's interesting you say that because uh one of my favorite shows used to be, and not so I don't even know it's on anymore.
I stopped watching it, but was um American Idol when it first came out, you know.
And you would see people rise to the occasion and this talent come out of these people, and then they would supplement that with the arguments and the big bickering and the drama.
And I never liked the drama part of it.
I always was touched by the people that faced this adversity and overcame it.
And uh it's interesting because when I watch the news and when I watch TV, I feel the same way.
If I hear from an expert or I feel uh that the person truly believes in uh their viewpoint, I'm interested in that.
But I am I'm not I'm instant instantly tuned out when I hear the bickering.
No, sure.
And um, I think when people come to the table with talking points uh and they're not really ha willing to have an intellectually honest discussion and actually, you know, take responsibility for you know errors and bad judgment and and things that people on their side of the aisle have done.
I I just think we've lost a little bit of the intellectual honesty in our conversations and I work really hard every day where whenever I'm on air and really in my day-to-day interactions with people to make sure that I I say what I mean and I mean what I say, that I'm not making any misrepresentations, I'm not reeling off a list of talking points, and I'm really willing to listen.
And I think listening to one another is is something that we've lost because we're sort of in social media echo chambers in a lot of ways.
Yeah.
And my hope, especially as a person who is coined as a liberal, my sort of life within conservative media is to reach out to people and to listen to people because I want to hear what they have to say, and I'm hoping that their ears and their hearts are open to what I have to say.
And that's ears.
Ears and hearts.
There's a song there somewhere, ears and hearts and hearts and ears, you know, take it away.
I'm sure I'm still trying to figure out the body parts that you're talking about.
Listen, I tell you what, let's do this.
Let's take a break real quick.
We're gonna come back uh and we're gonna touch on this a little bit more and uh and then where can people find you on Twitter?
Ms. Ms. D. McLaughlin.
Sorry, it's a bit of a mouthful.
And I'll have her uh I'll actually have her uh her uh her Twitter uh on my uh account as well, and that's J. Gilliam underscore seal.
J. Gilliam underscore seal.
Uh follow me on Twitter or like me, follow me, whatever it is, and then on Facebook, it's Jonathan T. Gilliam.
But real quick before we go to break, make sure that you go to Amazon right now.
I'm telling everybody, you're not you don't get me every day.
Go to Amazon, order Sheet No More, The Art of Awareness and Attack Survival.
Um, or you could just go down to Barnes and Noble and buy it right now, and uh they have them on stock there.
You won't regret getting it.
This is a Sean Hannity Radio Show, 800, 941 7326.
We'll be right back.
This is Jonathan Gillam back in the studio for my good buddy Sean Hannity.
And joining me again is my good, my other good buddy, Danielle McLaughlin, who hugs like a steel worker.
I sure do.
Watch out, I'm gonna hug you again at the end of this.
And she uh I am she's a little taller than a hobbit.
So she's in between actually, you more you look more like the Elven Princess.
Oh, that's so nice of you to say.
I forgot what her name is.
But uhw.
You would know that.
Yeah.
Being from New Zealand.
I think she's played by Kate Blanchett, who's Australian, but I still, you know.
We have a little bit of a thing with the Australians.
You know, if Sean Connery had been in that in that movie, oh yeah, it would have been like this.
I think you're an amazing woman and an amazing elf.
Well, if this radio thing doesn't work out for you, then maybe there's a life for you and Sean Connery impersonation is just saying.
Yeah, let's see.
All right.
So let's let's finish this off because we only got a couple minutes.
Uh what do you think that American people that are born here?
Uh, because I think the reality when we talk about the lack uh or the the fall of American exceptionalism, the lack of unity in this country, whether it's liberal and conservative getting along or a conservatives getting along, seems like liberals get along pretty well, but conservatives are so they're they're free thinkers, they don't follow a narrative a lot of the times.
I think that liberals are more dedicated to their narrative far more than conservatives.
Because conservatives want to come home and be left alone.
And uh what would you say to the American people, regardless of liberal conservative, from somebody who's come here to this country, is becoming a citizen.
What is it that we may have forgotten?
Because I know that comfort kills.
Comfort kills freedom, comfort will kill your body, uh, comfort will destroy your marriage and your family.
If you get too comfortable, uh you will you will end up falling to whatever force is against you.
What do you say to the American people that they should remember about this country that you're learning that you're seeing and that drew you here?
You know, I would say that Americans are some of the hardest working people that I've ever seen.
Um, and I really respect and appreciate that.
And I think being here has made me more of a hard worker.
Uh I think this is truly a land of opportunity.
I really do believe as an immigrant, that inscription on the Statue of Liberty.
Um I've been so welcomed, so warmly welcomed here, and I've appreciated that there are people from all over the world, not just here in New York City, but in the small towns of Colorado, uh in the little hamlets in California, in uh, you know, towns of Iowa.
I've seen I've I've traveled a lot, I've seen a lot of people, and the the the warmth that is is exuded by Americans is something that I've never seen.
The work ethic is something that I've never seen.
Uh the the charity, the way that we give to one another is something that I've never seen.
And you know, I guess I go back to opportunity.
Um I really believed when I moved here that I could become anything, and I want people here to remember that.
Um you have to do the thing that terrifies you, and that might mean leaving your small town.
That might mean traveling a little bit around and seeing a little bit of the world.
What I've appreciated about being here also is that I see my former life in context.
And I've learned as someone who's traveled a little bit and lived in you know three states and three countries.
You do have to leave where you're from to really love it and appreciate it in a new way.
So with that being said, why don't you just say this, repeat after me?
Uh I'm Danielle McLaughlin.
This is Sean Hannity Show.
We'll be right back.
I'm Danielle McLaughlin.
This is the Sean Hannity Radio Show, and we'll be right back.
And this is Jonathan Gillam filling in for my good buddy Sean Hannity on the Sean Hannity Radio Show.
And I gotta tell you, as we're winding down this show, I hope you've been listening for the whole three hours.
You know, some people do actually listen to this show for three hours, and I I'm hoping that what you've gotten out of this is a better understanding of what American exceptionalism is and how closely it's tied to our Judeo Christian uh beginnings.
Um I know that's not gonna make some uh liberals and atheists happy, but uh listen, God bless you, and I hope you uh you succeed in life with whatever you have, other than uh the power of the Lord to push you forward.
But in this Christmas season, um, and when you look at the exceptionalism of the country that uh the way it was and the way I hope it will be, I think that is it is inevitable that you will come back uh to the point of these three special weeks around Christmas and how important the behavior that we have uh over these three weeks,
the the exceptionalism, the morals, the ethics, the service, the unity that we have to each other, to freedom, um to the elderly.
The things that we do, a lot of the times in these three weeks around Christmas, most people don't even consider them the rest of the year.
But I keep saying again and again, and I'm gonna say it until the end of the show, this is the mindset we need to have on a daily basis 365 days a year.
So I want to bring in, you know, again, as I'm sitting there with Lauren talking about who I wanted to come on this show.
Of course, I couldn't not have C. L. Bryant on, because C. L. Bryant, uh, and I'm on his show quite often.
Um, he is a creator creator of the the film Runaway Slave and host of his own show, the C. L. Bryant Show.
And uh he he is an amazing man, an amazing Christian.
He is one of the people when I talked earlier about uh I don't like to recognize skin color, C L is one of the people that transcends any type of uh judgment that anybody would ever have on skin color uh and defies the odds uh of uh of what the Democrats and the Liberals in this country want to tell you that somebody who has dark skin should be,
and he is somebody that has gone out and created his own road based on the morals ethics, work work ethic, and the the the human being that was created by his parents, the man that he is.
And I figured, okay, that's great, let's bring C L on.
But then I thought, you know, I'm all when I'm on C L's show, I'm speaking to uh his producer, Michelle Malon.
What a name that is too, Michelle Malone.
And I thought, who better to bring on with C L than the woman that's in charge of C L on a daily basis in his show, and a woman who I've talked to uh over a period of time who is uh a profound Christian, an incredible mom, and a successful woman.
And I thought we need to have her on here as well.
Now, I don't know if you all have ever been on before, but Michelle and CL, thank you all for being on together.
And um as of right now, for this next few minutes, it's the uh Sean Hannity, C. L and Michelle show.
That is fantastic, Jonathan.
I am so glad that uh you have got given my Michelle uh my producer a chance to be on with me.
You know I pay her in corn chips, and so uh it it's very good that she is on with me as a Christmas present to her.
Man, the topic that you're talking about is absolutely spot on.
America is the greatest nation on the face of the planet, the greatest success story the world has ever known.
And that is because of our Judeo Christian principles and ethics that we offer to everyone who is a citizen of this country and everyone who will become a legal citizen of this country.
And at this point in time in our country's uh this time of the year, we can't forget the reason for this season.
It's called Christmas.
That means a celebration of the Christ.
Literally.
You celebrate Christ.
He's the reason for the season, and it is an exceptional nation.
Glad that you have us both on.
I guess I'll throw it to Michelle.
Yeah, so I guess I won't get my corn chips for December.
And I will say, nobody controls C. L. Bryant.
Okay, Jonathan.
No one.
Uh you know, Jonathan, you and I have talked a great deal over the few past few years about our faith.
And you know, people assume when you say, Well, she's uh you know, a Christian, That I'm all about being uber religious and judging people if they don't go to church or this or that.
You know, Jonathan, at this time of year, when every person, even an atheist says this is the most beautiful time of the year, as a believer, I'm grateful.
I don't need them to say, well, Jesus is a son of God, because it's being revealed to them through the way we as Christians behave during this time.
And as a busy mom and wife and trying to juggle job and Christmas shopping, the conviction I feel about being kind when I'm running late and I'm buying all these gifts, and you know, and then the clerk is really slow, and I feel conviction about is Christmas about these presents or my godly attitude.
You know, I was having a conversation with my good friend Jackie Klein, and for those of you that uh don't I've talked about her before, Jackie Klein Nutrition.com.
She actually uh I did something with some NFL players uh a couple of years ago, and uh they she she put us all through this um nutrition thing where we were doing a cleansing, and um she's a mom as well, and I I can't help but reflect on what you just said there uh about uh how people are and the and the the pressures that moms face during Christmas.
Here's a question I have for you, though, and I was talking to Jackie about this.
What do you think about the other uh 364 days out of the year?
How do you think that Americans and moms and uh children can grasp this special feeling that we have over this period of time and become that, not just experience it once a year, but actually become that.
Well, you know, Jonathan, and of course, Michelle's the mom here.
My wife is out probably spending money, and that's great as far as concerned.
But this is the thing.
I believe that this president, when we talk about the the opportunity we have now in America to reclaim our core values, I believe that there is no better opportunity than we have under this particular president.
Even in Washington, D.C. at the White House, you go to the Walmart and Jonathan, both you and I admit that we like to go to Walmart.
Uh both of us can see the door greeters, the door greeters are welcoming people with Merry Christmas and saying goodbye the same way.
What do you say, Michelle?
Well, I don't go to Walmart.
I'm just kidding.
But I think it has a lot to do with probably your last whatever.
Your last guest, she talked about it, you know, about the civility.
I think there are attitudes that we need to keep all the time.
And I'm glad you brought up politics, Ciel, because the premise of your show that is going to be on the air for four years coming up on your anniversary, was about having a conversation.
There's such polarization in this country.
And I'm looking at 2018 and making this a topic with all of my conservative liberal friends to put down the walls and start to find common ground.
We do not have to agree on everything.
I have so many friends that are so different from me that I love.
And I don't want my politics or my religion to make them feel alienated.
And as a Christian, that's what this is all about.
If you read the Christmas story, it's about God bringing himself to humanity in a manger that was worse than Walmart, and saying, It's cool, it's going to be all right.
So I guess, Jonathan, our attitude as Christians, every day isn't that we don't drink and smoke, but are we giving peace and kindness to the the world that we touch?
Yeah.
No, listen, that that is see uh what I've been trying to go back and forth about all day today is that uh Christmas is uh as CL said, uh you can't have Christmas without the Christ.
And um that exceptionalism of that tiny baby that was in a manger in the story that uh we we played the little snippet from uh the Charlie Brown uh Christmas story a little while ago, uh it really boils down to um two thousand years ago to the characteristics of this uh young uh baby that grew into a man and set the ultimate standard for how we should be.
And I I I tell you, uh people may feel differently about this, but this country is a direct reflection.
We are dir we are walking in the the direct footsteps of his behavior this many two thousand years later.
You're absolutely right, Jonathan.
And you know, when you have when you put it the way that you put it, uh the preacher in me rises up and I I remember the words of John the Baptist when he saw Christ coming to be baptized.
And he said to the crowd, Behold the Lamb of the world who comes to take away our sins.
And when you talk about that manger that he was born in there was a prophetic message that God sends to the world.
Where else would a lamb be born except in a stable in a manger like our Lord was born.
And I think and I pray that we as Christians uh are able to tell our story.
And I certainly hope that we as Americans are able to tell our stories through the prism of the Judeo Christian ethic.
It is what's made us great and it's what will make us great again.
It's what's keeping us great.
Michelle, let me ask you one thing before we go here.
We've got about two minutes.
What would you say to the American people that are out there?
You know, you live in a rural area in the country.
What would you say to the people that are in the big cities, the people that got upset because of the way the election happened and the way that the president was elected?
They say it was the majority vote that actually won.
But the difference is in the major...
metropolitan areas these are where uh vast majorities of people live and they're dependent on the cities where they're not as much in the rural areas what would you say to those people to help them recognize the exceptionalism of the people that live in these rural areas well and I think it's something that we do as citizens ourselves.
You know a lot of people put pressure on the media and on the president.
But I think it's people I think it's the people in the big cities that need to see other people like me and hear my story and you talk about Christianity 365 well I think that's what it is about kindness about openness and I really think your previous guest about having honest discussion about things you know if the mainstream media is putting out a false narrative continuously we have to combat falseness with the truth and that's done on an individual one-on-one basis.
I hope they listen you know Monday through Friday to the C.L. Bryant show on redstate talkradio dot com and that's noon to two you get to hear the truth there.
But really Jonathan we need to talk with our neighbors and friends and we need to use 2018 as this opportunity to talk with people not get angry if they don't agree with us.
And that's what to me makes America great not one idea that we all have but the ability to have many ideas.
CL I give you the last word I got about 30 seconds I'm all in with that yes let's build that bridge to conversation and folks every day I want to thank my good friend Jonathan Gilliam I always say he's a brother from another mother mother and I'm not saying that because he's white and I happen to be black.
Sean Henry is at the way uh as far as concern I want to wish you Sean Lauren and and our very good friend Linda for having Michelle and I on Michelle Merry Christmas this is your Christmas present don't expect anything and God bless and keep um you all there in America.
Listen to the C. Al Bryan show 12 noon Eastern to two o'clock on Red State Talk Radio.
Thank you so much.
You got it God bless you both I love you and uh thank you for all that you've done you are making America greater and greater every day.
God bless you.
This is Jonathan Gill and feeling in for Sean Handy we're gonna come back I got some closing thoughts for you.
Stand by you don't want to miss this and go get my book Sheep No More The Art of Awareness and Attack Survival.
It's available on Amazon right now.
Go order it right now we'll be right back.
This is Jonathan filling in for Sean Hannity as I close out the show and that was the uh the drunken Christmas song that Lauren picked out thanks number two.
So anyway This is some quality music right here yeah that's good for late at night when you're all alone and you're drunk and it's a Christmas play like five seconds of that real quick.
Hold on one second this is the picture you're in a trailer.
I grew up in a trailer I know you're drinking Path Blue Ribbon, and that's the song playing.
And then you drift to sleep.
Okay, so listen, I got just a few minutes here, and I just want to say to everybody that um I love this country, and uh I I'm so thankful for the family that I grew up in for my mom, who I love more than uh than life itself, uh, for the American citizenry that uh I think can be exceptional all year round.
But I want you to focus on this as I go away.
In order to be exceptional, you have to have morals and ethics.
You have to care about each other, not just yourself.
You have to be in service, not just to your country, but to each other, and you have to unify.
If you want to make this country great again, we cannot allow this thing that we feel over this period of Christmas to drift away and be forgotten January 2nd.
You have to keep this going all year round.
And there I don't even know how many years ago it was now in 1983 when my father died when I was with him on Christmas Day.
I learned so much about what the Lord thinks about us and the reality of what Christmas is about.
I'm thankful that I had my dogs in my life for the past eighteen years.
I'm thankful for the opportunities that I've had to grow my career, and I'm thankful that the God of all the universe sacrificed his son so that we may all meet again in heaven and toast to freedom with the founding fathers that created this country.
So I I invite all one and all to come and join me.
This is Sean Hannity Radio Show.
I'll see you next time.
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