78: Jimmy Dore Platforms a Boogaloo Boy (& News Roundup)
This week, it's another of our occasional News Roundup episodes. This time Jack takes the lead (and Daniel hits the whiskey) for a discussion about Jimmy Dore platforming a Boogaloo Boy. Plus a couple of other stories, the painful return of an old segment, and a very special but silent guest appearance. Content Warnings. * Please consider donating to help us make the show and stay independent. From Jan 2021 onwards, patrons get exclusive access to one extra episode a month. Daniel's Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/danielharper/posts Jack's Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/user?u=4196618&fan_landing=true IDSG Twitter: https://twitter.com/idsgpod IDSG on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/i-dont-speak-german/id1449848509?ls=1 * Episode Links/Notes: Jimmy Dore video 'Populist Right & Left Joining Forces Against Establishment': https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OP5OLBauCg Jimmy Dore video 'Radicalised Michigan Anarchist Seeks Unity with the Left': https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZMB9052rEs Sam Seder response: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ew3ZB7d19lw Matt Binder response: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lb1eRi8B3dg Emily Gorecenski's Ricky Vaughn tweets: https://twitter.com/EmilyGorcenski/status/1354479956961718276
I'm Jack Graham, he him, and in this podcast I talk to my friend Daniel he him, and in this podcast I talk to my friend Daniel Harper, also he him, about what he learned from years of listening to today's Nazis, white nationalists, white supremacists, and what they say to each white nationalists, white supremacists, and
Be warned, this is difficult subject matter.
Content warnings always apply.
It's episode 78 of I Don't Speak German, and I'm here, as always, and Daniel's here, and also here with us we have Bernie Sanders.
He's just sitting in the corner in his anorak, that's what we call him in Britain, and his mittens.
He's not saying anything, you're not going to hear him, but he's going to be there the whole time, and it's going to be very funny.
He's here, he's giving us the, well, you can't really tell if there's a thumbs up because of the mittens and all.
Well, it's just his presence there, really.
It's hilarious.
It's killing me.
Yeah, it is.
Just his presence in a place where you wouldn't normally expect.
It's just amazingly funny.
Yeah.
Anyway, it's another News Roundup episode.
It's still not Tom Metzger Part 2, I'm afraid, although we promise you that is coming.
I was literally prepping to do that this afternoon, and then Jack and I were messaging on the back channel, and Jack's like, I really want to talk about this Jimmy Dore thing, and I'm like, oh god, we should talk about the Jimmy Dore thing.
So, you know.
And the Tom Metzger episode just keeps expanding the longer I look at it, so it's just, alright, we'll figure it out, it's fine.
Anyway, as I keep saying, this is a News Roundup episode, but before we get to that, Daniel, we're going to do the first in what's going to be a new segment, a new opening segment for the podcast, which it doesn't really have a title, but it's just, it's Daniel Answers a Question.
So, Daniel, answer a question.
I get emails and I get DMs, and I'm going to probably start up a Curious Cat or something that you could send.
But I get a ton of people sending me a lot of questions that are very similar to one another.
Nobody sends me questions.
Apart from, why don't you fuck off?
Things like that, obviously.
Oh, well, you know.
I get those too.
It's fine.
But I figured it would be nice to sort of like warm up our podcast and do a little bit more audience engagement and start answering a question in every episode.
I'm not going to be reading names out for obvious reasons.
This is one I got from a DM and it's, you know, the most common question I get from people is what the fuck does your podcast title mean?
Which I've explained in many places.
But it takes so...
It's like...
I deeply apologize for any German people that I've offended with the title of this podcast.
We're kind of stuck with it at this point.
But we're not going to do that again.
Instead, the second most common question I get...
It doesn't mean anything.
Don't worry about it.
We're not...
We're not bigoted against German people.
German people are great.
I know German people.
My best friend is a German.
Daniel said I don't speak German during the first recording and I just listened to that Lady Gaga song.
That's literally it.
Don't worry about it.
It's not really any more complicated than that.
Anyway, so the second most common question I get is, why don't you cover Person X?
For a long time, the number one thing was Ben Shapiro.
Every couple of days, it'd be like, hey, you should do something about Ben Shapiro.
You should really do an episode about Ben Shapiro.
He's really important.
I don't disagree.
I don't get that one as much anymore.
I think Cody Johnson of Some More News kind of took care of that one.
I was going to say, I think that's been very comprehensively tackled by the folks over at Some More News.
I figured, I got this one recently and I figured I would just respond to it here on the show.
And the question was, why don't you do an episode about Jordan Peterson?
And big figures like that, I mean, big kind of popular figures, I feel like it's pretty well understood who Jordan Peterson is.
I don't feel like I have anything to add to that discourse.
If I found out that Jordan Peterson was hanging out with neo-Nazis on the side and that wasn't being widely reported, or if I found out something kind of interesting or some weird connection in Jordan Peterson's past, then we would absolutely cover that.
But I feel like...
More mainstream sources have covered Jordan Peterson very well, you know.
And I don't feel like, I feel like my attention or the attention of this podcast should be elsewhere.
Like, I feel like that's kind of where we should go.
Yeah, I don't know.
Like, I just, I don't have a take.
And that's increasingly, particularly looking forward into 2021, what I'm looking for when I'm prepping these episodes is To have, for one or both of us, to have, like, a take on this material, to really have something to say that isn't being said elsewhere, or some perspective on it that isn't kind of, like, coming from left field.
Like, I resisted doing the IDW people for a long time until, you know, I was really kind of, like, digging in and suddenly feeling like, yeah, no, I actually do have things to say about the Weinsteins, etc., that other people haven't really expressed in so many words.
So those, like, major figures, those kind of bigger figures that have been, like, kind of extensively covered in other places, I'm gonna really resist doing them unless there's something kind of new that kind of comes in.
The other kind of person that gets recommended, well, some people recommend, hey, why don't you do such-and-such figure who is in our wheelhouse that we just haven't gotten around to yet?
So that's kind of a second class, and it's just like, okay, I will get there eventually, you know?
Usually, they have to do something interesting enough to spur me on to prep it immediately.
That's sort of the thing that happens with those guys.
But the other one is either non-American groups or personalities, which I have less personal familiarity with, or super obscure, like a local clan leader in Indiana or something.
sometimes get like hey there's this guy that you should really be paying attention to and there the risk is you know kind of giving them more prominence in their worth or you know kind of like out sitting the threat or you know like it's it's just kind of a complicated dance of like how do you decide to and who who to cover and when okay so uh we shall move on from from there from our amazing new segment daniel answers a question to uh
so i'm gonna i'm gonna actually lean this over into you and kind of because you you brought this up and so um the floor is yours jack who tell me Tell me about Jimmy Dore.
Yeah, so Jimmy Dore, as people may or may not know, I suspect our audience is largely made up of people who know fairly well who he is, but aren't devoted fans.
That would be my guess.
Jimmy Dore is a comedian.
Question mark.
Comedian, yes.
Well, you know, humour's subjective.
Who has a podcast stroke YouTube show.
You know, it's a podcast and he also releases bits of it on YouTube, I think.
And I've listened to a few episodes of his show and watched a bit of his YouTube stuff.
You know, the way you do.
You taste a bit of this, that and the other to find out what's for you.
Jimmy Dore has been very much in the news recently actually with this forcing the vote on Medicare thing.
Yeah.
And I kind of suspect that getting himself in the news is the real goal here.
You don't kind of push that kind of thing and challenge AOC from the left, quote unquote.
And like call her like a fake, you know, a fake leftist or a fake progressive or whatever, and then tag her on Twitter and then get into like the fights in public on this topic without realizing what you're actually doing is like spreading your brand.
Yeah, indeed.
Apparently, I read anyway, I'm not absolutely sure this is true, but apparently he has a degree in marketing.
I'll be honest, I knew the name last year.
I've known the name, I've seen his face probably.
Until the Force the Vote thing, I had no clear concept of him at all as a human being.
I mean, that's what I think he's doing anyway.
He plays this character as kind of this blue-collar guy, and he does this shtick where he kind of says, you know, I'm just a jag-off comedian.
This is like one of his catchphrases.
I'm just a jag-off comedian, and I smoke dope, and, you know, even I understand politics better than these people, et cetera, et cetera.
And as I say, you know, pretty solidly middle-class.
I'm 50 years old, and I'm reusing like third-tier Patton Oswalt material from 1997 and 2021.
Yeah.
And his class position is pretty solidly middle-class, you know, he's from a generational cult family, and he's got a degree in marketing.
And, you know, a lot of people will just openly say they think he's a grifter.
You know, Sam Seder just calls him a grifter.
And I think that's probably true.
He started out on the Young Turks, and then left.
That's usually a bad sign.
That's in itself.
That's by itself a bad sign.
Sam Seder started on The Young Turks, and we have our issues.
I think you and I would each have our individual issues with Sam Seder, but he's largely on the side of good, I think.
He's pretty good.
He's pretty good.
Michael Brooks was better.
Anna Kasparian is pretty good.
A lot of the people that moved over to the majority report, a much better forum for the talents that was formerly on The Young Turks.
Yeah, but another person of course famously started on the Young Turks was Dave Rubin and I think there is a certain amount of overlap there with Jimmy Dore, which maybe that's something we'll get into.
But yeah, the thing that he's done most recently, Jimmy Dore this is, is that he's had one of the Boogaloo Boys, had a Boogaloo Boy on his show and done this Pretty fawning interview with this guy.
I want to kind of break this up into two things, which I'm thinking of as the act of it and his spin on it.
I want to talk about the actual interview itself and the person in question.
And then I kind of want to talk about how Jimmy Dore spins this, or how he understands the meaning of what he did.
The first thing is the interview.
Well, the first thing is actually that Jimmy Dore sees this speech that this guy, whose name is... Magnus Panvidya.
And he sees him, he's a Michigan guy, and he sees him giving this speech where he's coming out with stuff about, the bit I've seen is he's talking about how Black Lives Matter and Antifa and right-wing militias are not the cause of the problem in our society, they're symptoms of it.
They're the antibodies, was the word he used.
Antibodies, that's it, yeah.
Yeah.
And, I mean, just immediately, to anybody with any sense, he's equating Antifa and right-wing militias.
So, you know, gigantic, loud, blaring alarms ought to be going off in your brain at this point, OK?
If you're looking at this honestly and sensibly.
If you have any knowledge about any of this at all in history.
And like, as I think we've indicated, Jimmy Dore is, he's in his fifties, I think.
I mean, you know, he's, you know, I'm not, I'm not trying to be ageist here.
You know, he's got white hair or kind of gray, white hair.
He's, you know, he's, he's an older guy, like, which is fine.
Everybody ages, but like, he can't pretend to be like 22 and not like understand what the nineties and American politics was like.
Like he knows who Timothy McVeigh is.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And, you know, there are these things called books.
I wouldn't know.
And the internet, even, these days.
I've heard of it, anyway.
Turns out you can Google things.
You can find out stuff if you want to.
And I would say, if you're going to be the sort of person that talks about politics, In a public forum, especially if you've got a large audience.
And this guy, again, like a lot of the people we talked about, like Molyneux and Harris and Tim Pool, much bigger audience than we've got.
I think you have a responsibility to, you know, know something about these issues.
I very, very much do not claim to be an expert or a scholar or an academic or any of those things.
I am very much a dilettante.
I'm a guy who is interested in politics and history and stuff like that and studies it in his spare time.
I have a degree in English and philosophy, but that doesn't make me an expert.
I do not claim to be an expert.
But I do take, you know, and I have a jokey way about me, but I do take it seriously to an extent that I have, you know, you and I, we have an audience now.
It's not a massive audience, but we do have an audience and we talk about things that are important.
So I, you know, obviously in the podcast forum, you're going to misspeak, you're going to misremember things, et cetera.
And when that happens and people tell us we try to put it right, et cetera, that, you know, everybody understands that.
But you do have a certain responsibility if you're going to be talking about these things in public to any kind of audience.
To, you know, to make some effort, to do some basic fucking research, so that you understand the basics.
And he just did not do that.
He just completely abdicated responsibility and went ahead on the basis of open ignorance.
If you watch the video, he's talking, you know, in the video where he's showing this speech from Panvidya.
Lansing, yeah.
In the video where he's showing bits of this speech and reacting to it, he's saying openly, the Boogaloo Boys, I don't know anything about them, who are they?
And this other person on the show, who I believe is his wife, who's also one of the writers and hosts, she looks it up on Wikipedia during the show.
I think he tells the joke, are the Boogaloo Boys like the Proud Boys, but with dancing?
Is that what they are?
Yeah.
Which, actually, not as wrong as you might think.
Actually, a pretty good answer, in that kind of oversimplified way.
Yeah, yeah.
It's on the trajectory to being right, isn't it?
Much more so than the fawning ball slap that you gave to Mr. Panvindia there.
Apologies for the gendered language, I suppose, but you know what I mean.
Absolutely, yeah.
I don't think this is ignorance, honestly.
I don't want to impute ill motives into people.
Particularly, I don't know much about Jimmy Dore and his history or whatever.
I've not done the deep dive on Jimmy Dore.
We are doing what we just claimed, but we've done more work trying to understand Jimmy Dore than Jimmy Dore apparently did trying to understand the Boogaloo.
We're not literally Googling him in real time, which means we're by definition doing more work.
But at the same time, I don't think that... I think you can, based on the questions he doesn't ask, when he actually gets the guy on screen and when he's actually having the conversation, I think you could very easily kind of say, oh, he knows exactly what he's doing.
Yeah, I don't think that we can – calling it ignorance and as righteously angry as you are is almost too kind, because I think there is the other version of this in which he is willfully pursuing an actually malicious goal, and I think that's a clear possibility.
Yeah, well, somebody said something once about it being very hard to get somebody whose job depends upon them not knowing something to know that thing, didn't they?
I can't remember who said that.
And a related thing to that is something I often say, which is that it's amazing how people will passionately and sincerely believe things that are in their material interests.
So yeah, I think I think there's a point where ignorance just becomes as bad as dishonesty, because it basically is a form of dishonesty.
If you play around with this stuff without bothering to know, that's basically the same thing as being deliberately dishonest.
And while you and I don't know a lot about Jimmy Dore, we do know a lot about the Boogaloo Boys.
And so by extension, we can say that Jimmy Dore either ignorantly did this or maliciously did this.
But by being knowledgeable about the Boogaloo Boys, we can criticize Jimmy Dore's kind of lack of knowledge without even having to know anything else about Jimmy Dore, right?
I think so, and I think I do know a fair bit about Jimmy Dore, because as I say, I've listened to several of his shows, I've watched several of his videos, I've looked into the guy.
Again, I don't claim to be an expert on Jimmy Dore, but I have actually done some basic fucking research before I started talking about him on Mike, you know?
Which, apparently, at least according to his own presented account of events, is a lot more than Jimmy Dore bothered to do.
Read the Boogaloo Boys.
Because, as I say, you actually see him, as he's showing this speech, saying to the other people in the studio, who were the Boogaloo Boys?
I don't know these people.
After a whole summer, which they showed up to like every fucking protest, right?
Well, yeah, exactly.
It's that old thing, isn't it?
You're either lying or you don't know, and you have no excuse for not knowing.
This is not something you shouldn't know about at this point.
If you're in any way going to present yourself as a serious person talking about politics in 2021, you know.
It's Tim Poole saying, this is James also beginning, like, have you seen any Nazis around here?
Interviewing Baked Alaska, you know, are you a white supremacist?
No?
Oh, that's interesting, thanks.
Baked Alaska, who was in the Capitol building on January the 6th.
Yeah, we have a related, I have a brief news story, which we'll get to at the very end.
Anyway, please continue.
I apologize, I keep interrupting.
Like his spiritual counterpart, he's the shadowy reflection of Jimmy Dore in the same way that Belloq is the shadowy reflection of Indiana Jones, Dave Rubin.
Dave Rubin, of course, has people on his show and they just sit there spouting bollocks and lies and pig-ignorant nonsense from this reactionary direction and, as is well-remarked upon by many people, he just sits there going, Hmm, interesting.
And it looks like Dave Rubin is a profoundly ignorant, foolish, stupid person, which of course he is, but he's using his profound ignorance in order to do something very deliberate, which is to craft a show which is extremely popular with a certain kind of audience.
He's using his profound stupidity in order to be able to sit there nodding appreciatively as people like Ben Shapiro or Jordan Peterson, whoever, spout their toxic bullshit.
And everybody involved does very well out of it.
You know, Dave Rubin has been pushed into...
He's followed the money.
As I've talked about before, there's this kind of political behaviorism, particularly with these people who turn it into the business of making money online, particularly on YouTube.
where they follow where the reactionary bucks take them.
And I think This is probably something that's happening to Jimmy Dore, because Jimmy Dore presents himself as left-wing.
I think his self-identification is progressive, right?
Which, I mean, I could do an entire fucking episode just talking about- We could definitely talk about progressive, and like, yeah, let's table that for now, but yeah.
Yeah, let's table that indeed.
And, I mean, if you watch him... No skin for the quote-unquote progressives who are listening to this show, because I wasn't progressive until, like, 2015 or so.
Like, when you and I, when Jack and I first met, I would have really called myself, like, oh yeah, I'm kind of a progressive liberal type, I'm not really a socialist, now I'm like, burn it to the ground, motherfucker.
So, you know, like, yeah.
I like to take some of the credit for that.
You have a great deal of the credit for that, my friend.
Good, good.
I'm glad to have- By very slowly and carefully answering my questions.
I'm glad to have been the Darth Sidious in this equation.
The fact that Nazis fear us, the fact that Nazis curse my name on air behind their paywalls, is solely because of you.
So if you do get murdered one day, it'll be my fault, thanks.
Oh no, no, it's the Nazis' fault.
No.
Anyway.
But yeah, what was I saying?
That went dark.
That went real dark real fast.
What do you think, Bernie?
He's shaking his head.
Yeah, progressive.
Jimmy Dore's a progressive.
I am once again asking you to stay on topic.
We should have him here more often because we need that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
If you, If you listen to Jimmy Dore for any length of time, what you get from him is his preoccupation, his real interest is like both sides are as bad as each other, the Democrats are as bad as the Republicans.
It's the establishment, it's the oligarchy rather than...
I mean, there's no class analysis, there's no real ideological analysis of the difference between right and left.
He harps upon things like, quite technical stuff like Medicare for All.
Obviously that's a good thing that we should have.
Obviously I'm not against Medicare for all and obviously I'm not against the suggestion that the Democrats are fucking useless and they need to be criticized.
Obviously I'm not against any of these things but that kind of politics which focuses on this constant critique of the establishment as if there's no differentiation between it and they're all just this lump And, you know, again, I'm very critical of the Democrats.
I don't think you can say meaningfully that they're as bad as the Republicans.
They're not.
They are differentiated parts of one political establishment and one political system, absolutely.
They're not the same.
And as highly critical as you can and should be of the Democrats, you have to... And which we are on the show on a regular basis.
On a regular basis, yes.
Yeah, you have to acknowledge that it's worth having, you know, the defeat of Trump, which by definition, unfortunately, Bernie's really growling at me now, because of course this is getting into sensitive areas, but you know, by definition, if we wanted to get rid of Trump in America, we had to have President Biden.
It's worth having.
With all the criticisms that you can and should level at Biden, this is something that's worth having.
And this kind of decontextualized- We've seen very real material differences, even, like, my favorite, like, can I, can I, like, so on, like, day two or day one, or, like, on the 21st or 22nd, I can't remember which day it was, we had our first White House, like, we had our first White House, like, daily press briefing since, like, I think, The White House just quit doing them.
You know, daily briefings at some point early in Trump's term, and I forget exactly when that was, but we had our first White House press briefing.
And someone said, oh, that's what...
That's a thing that we used to do.
That was just normal politics in the United States up until just a few years ago, and I completely forgot.
And I had this moment, and I'm not trying to get- And there weren't chairs reserved for Breitbart.
Right.
And Alex Jones.
I'm not trying to get all liberal on you here, please forgive me, but I had a moment of like, just that moment of relief.
Just that moment of like, oh, right.
There's some level of accountability here, right?
There's some level of at least we're communicating, at least our sensible leaders have the obligation to pretend they're communicating to the American people again.
And then that press conference was full of fucking lies.
And it was like, oh right, that's the flip side, yeah.
But I did have that moment of that sense of relief, and so I get it.
I'm not against that.
It's fine.
If I'm more cynical, it's because I'm just cynical these days.
Joe Biden gives me no reason not to be cynical, but you can't go from there.
I don't think it's cynicism.
There's a difference between...
The Democrats are also bad because they are a far-right political party.
But they're not as far-right and stupid and awful and incompetent as the Republicans.
We are allowed to believe both of those things.
And to say both of these things are equally bad because they're quote-unquote the Establishment, and who we really need to be listening to is Tulsi Gabbard, who is not a member of the Establishment.
I don't know if Jimmy Dore has... I don't know what his opinion of Tulsi Gabbard is, but... Jimmy Dore is very, very pro-Tulsi Gabbard.
What we really need to do is be listening to the Boogaloo Boys, because they're coming out, they're saying both sides are bad, lets us, the people, unite against the establishment, and create a civil war that will have blood rolling in the streets, and ultimately we are pro-capital.
Sorry, I think I'm jumping ahead for you, I apologise.
You're jumping ahead a bit, yeah, but I wanted to get to this.
I think a really telling detail of policy.
is the Biden administration's revocation of Trump's ban on transgender people in the military, right?
Because you can, you know, if you're in that part of the left that responds to that with just Anti-imperialist stuff, anti-military stuff.
And again, I agree.
I am against the American Empire.
I am against the American military and its role in sustaining the American Empire.
I know all about its acts of aggression.
I know all about that.
That's not the point.
The point is that Trump instituted a specifically bigoted discriminatory ban on one section of the population based entirely upon their gender identity.
That is bad, it's wrong, it's horrifyingly dangerous, it It has to be fought.
It has to be opposed.
It doesn't matter how you feel about the American military.
It doesn't matter at this point in the political conversation about what it gets up to abroad.
That's not the issue here.
The issue here is that the American government with that is specifically discriminating.
Against an entire population, based entirely upon their gender identity.
And that has to be opposed.
And if you're going to be meaningfully, as we've talked about before on this show, if you're going to be meaningfully on the left, you have to be for the entire working class.
You have to be a tribune of the oppressed.
You cannot tolerate that.
You have to be completely against it.
And I think that issue, it's like a prism, where you can see this entire divide in miniature, because you have this entire segment of the left, or the so-called left, who are so oriented around anti-imperialism, or what they see as anti-imperialism, that they will allow that consideration, which is an important one.
Again, don't get me wrong, I'm a dedicated anti-imperialist.
But my critique of imperialism is rooted in my critique of capitalism, and my critique of capitalism is rooted in a class analysis.
Now, what you have with... I mean, I'm putting Jimmy Dore in company that he... it's...
He's not on the same level as people like Greenwald, etc.
But he's definitely in that wing.
He's definitely of that tendency, of that side.
And it's rooted in a fundamental lack of a class analysis, which leads them into these complete dead ends.
I'm not saying... I don't know Jimmy Dore's specific position on this issue, but I'm just using this as kind of a cameo of the entire thing, how it works.
The conversation we're having is ultimately larger than Jimmy Dore, and I think that's... Well, this is why it's interesting, yeah.
But it's, you know, the point there is that you have to stand in solidarity with trans people and you can have the anti-imperialist conversation another time.
But I think what happens with these people that get pulled into this dead end is that they allow things like anti-establishmentism and so on, which is very, again, it's not based in a class analysis, it's too vague, it's not material enough.
And they get lost in these byways.
And I think that's exactly what you can see going on here, where you have this video of this guy talking about how we can unite, you know, right and left can unite against the establishment, against the oligarchy.
And because it's not based in actual material politics, which is always going to be the politics of class, And, you know, some people might hesitate at that.
They might think, well, this is actually about racism and sexism and stuff like that.
Absolutely.
Because I don't see that that's not the politics of class.
Because for me, the whole point is that the class, the working class, is made up of all these different identities.
And the point is to be in solidarity with all of them, to be for the unity of all of them.
And that is absolutely Not what right-wing politics is about.
So the minute you start thinking about left-right unity, you're just instantly putting all those people on the rubbish tip.
And with it, you're putting class unity, you're putting class collectivism and collective struggle on the rubbish tip, just instantly.
I absolutely agree, and the response that our Boogaloo boy Magnus Panavidya would have were he here, and which Bernie is shaking his head at ruefully with his mittens, is that, well, you know, I'm a member of the working class, I'm pro-LGBTQ, I'm not really quite straight myself.
I just want to kind of join with you to fight against the oligarchs, to fight against the government who is just coming to crush us.
The difference between you and me is that I'm a capitalist and I'm an anarchist, by which he means anarcho-capitalist.
Slipped that under the rug there, right?
Which is really the fundamental thing, fundamental thing, the fundamental thing.
Which, parenthetically, Jimmy Dore just completely recycles Uncritically in the same way that he has this, I mean we're going to get to the interview, but he has this guy on and he interviews him uncritically and laughs along and nods along and then he puts the video up on his channel and he calls it something like, uh, Anarchist Calls for Unity or something like that.
Yeah, this whole like, uh, anarcho-capitalists calling themselves anarchists goes back a while.
God, there's a Whole conversation we can have there.
I do want to just before we get too far away from it I do want to highlight one more thing about trans people in the military Just to sort of rewind and then I do want to continue this conversation.
I know personally a number of trans people who joined the military because they were poor and didn't have health care and joined the military because of They could jump through the medical hoops that the military would put in front of them, as horrifying as those hoops are, and gain access to the medical care they needed to transition and not shoot themselves in the head, right?
And that's a material thing.
That is a material thing in real people's lives.
And how dare you How dare anyone who claims to be on the left say that's not fucking important?
Because... Absolutely, yeah.
You join... As I say, I don't know specifically what Dawes' position is on this.
I was just using it as an example of the kind of mistake that gets made.
I've seen these people.
It's the kind of stupid poll, the anti-id poll, anti-imperialist, whatever.
We can, like, we can talk all day.
I'm happy to talk all day about, like, American imperialism and American empire and how terrible it is and, you know, the complicity of people that join it.
But so many people join it when they're 19 years old and don't fucking know any better.
And people join it because it'll pay for college.
People join it because it'll pay for their medical care.
People join it for all kinds of reasons.
Because they're African-American, living in run-down communities, and it's the only fucking way out.
And they target people like that as well.
And that is part of the capitalist system, right?
And that is, it feeds the poorest, the most marginalized people in our society into the maw of war as a way of granting them the slightest access to material support.
What we need to be doing is, like, embracing these people and granting them material support outside of the military, and in that way we choke off the American imperialist machine by, like, oh god, why am I the one who has to say this?
Anyway, please continue.
Please continue.
I mean, my angle is, you know, you look at, just, just, you know, my kind of general thought is, you look at Panavidya's thing, and it's nothing that, like, the anarcho-capitalists weren't saying in, like, 1995 on internet forums, right?
We're not right or left.
We're in the center and we love black people and gay people and we love weed and drugs and also, you know, like, uh, how about we have a little capitalism and billionaires are fine.
Billionaires are fine.
You know, you can just negotiate your own, you can just negotiate your own contract.
That's what we support.
And, you know, welfare, well look, you know, some people just aren't, some people just maybe need to die.
Oh, we don't, don't talk about weed.
Weed.
We like weed.
Weed.
It's good.
We should have weed.
We should have weed.
Yeah.
Yeah, and probably paedophilia as well.
If you get far enough into it, you probably end up there.
This really is going to dark places, this one.
And also, you may very well have the right to own a nuclear weapon.
Yeah.
And it would be immoral for the government to tax you to fund a missile to destroy an asteroid that was going to hit the Earth.
That's something I've seen actually argued.
Yeah, that's a fairly mainstream opinion among, you know...
Like, there was a video from the 2016 Libertarian Party primary, you know, from like the debate for, you know, where they were selecting their candidate in which Gary Johnson eventually won the nomination.
But it was like, you know, the debate moderator says, So, do you think that you need to have a license to drive a car?
And, like, literally every other candidate is going, like, fuck no, that's the government getting into your personal business.
You should be able to drive regardless, and, you know, we'll just do, we'll just settle any deaths that are caused through the courts.
And then Gary Johnson goes, yeah, no, actually, I think probably you should have to be licensed to drive a car, and I think that's probably a good idea.
Boo!
Boo!
You know, like that.
I mean, just that level of brainworms, it's endemic in the Libertarian Party and it's endemic in the Boogaloo Boys.
It's a completely incoherent political position.
This is the thing, because Jimmy Dore is listening to this speech and he's saying to his co-hosts, because the guy is going through all this stuff.
And he's saying to his co-host, I said, is there anything there you disagree with?
And these people, of course, on the show, they think of themselves as left-wing or progressive or whatever.
So he's kind of making this rhetorical point like, this guy here, he's saying stuff that we agree with.
And I've told the anecdote before about being on a forum and somebody who was quoting bits of a political manifesto at us on the left, you know, in the forum and sort of saying, what do you think Think about this!
And of course it was obvious that he was quoting, out of context, bits of the British National Party manifesto.
And again, as we've talked about on this show before, they always do this.
Fascists always have left rhetoric.
They always incorporate it.
The thing about the Boogaloo Boys is that they, you know this better than I do, but they're sort of split down the white nationalist or right libertarian axis.
Right.
And you get different types of Boogaloo Boys.
And this guy they're talking to, Magnus Panvidya, he's pretty obviously on the anarcho-capitalist, right-libertarian side of things.
And yeah, from those people you will get stuff about how, yeah, obviously you should be allowed to be gay, and obviously you should be allowed to smoke dope, etc, etc.
You will get stuff that you agree with on the left.
And this is just... it is so irresponsible to platform this guy and to let him Present himself as a reasonable person with whom you the viewer on the left or on the progressive side of things might be able to make common cause with and specifically to market it as like the left and the right need to make common cause because Jimmy Jimmy door does this thing after after the interview he does with pan video.
He says oh, it's not an endorsement You know, I'm not I'm not endorsing him.
I'm just talking to him.
You're talking to him uncritically yeah, and And then you're openly saying, you know, that the populist left and the populist right... What the fuck is the populist right?
The populist right is fascists!
The populist left and the populist right have to come together and fight the oligarchy together, and then we can get back to fighting each other afterwards.
Of course, like, the populist right, that term, that rhetoric, goes much deeper than just Demi... Demi Moore!
Demi Moore!
It does go deeper than Demi Moore.
It goes a lot deeper than Demi Moore, yeah.
It goes a lot deeper, yeah.
Jimmy Dore.
It goes a lot deeper than Jimmy Dore, because that's been standard rhetoric in newspapers of note since the rise of Donald Trump, since 2015.
It's like, oh no, Donald Trump is a populist, you see?
He's not a fascist, he's just a populist.
He's just supporting popular policies.
Yeah, exactly.
And this is the position that Jimmy Dore is working from, as an assumption.
It's the economic anxiety, the white working class, the left behind of neoliberalism, account of Trumpism.
And so, obviously, it makes perfect sense that you have these guys who come along and say, well, we can make common cause against this establishment.
And you have this You have this bit where he says, you know, this isn't a left-right issue, this is a top-down issue, right?
Well, that's... Top-down is capitalists and workers, motherfucker!
That's why you make... and you make that argument, the actual top-down argument, capitalists versus workers, to people.
You don't make common cause with people who actually don't have a top-down view of it, they have a left-right view of it, and a, you know, us-and-everybody-else view of it.
Because, you know, these things are mutually exclusive, they're incompatible.
But this idea that you can make common cause, you know, we can put aside our differences and fight about them after we've vanquished the establishment, it is so fucking illiterate, and so fucking dangerous and irresponsible.
I mean, I, I'm gonna, I'm not pushing back here.
I'm just going to say, like, you know, if a Boogaloo boy, if some kid kind of got involved in this and was having, like, serious, like, medical issues and needed, like, support, like, I would absolutely say, yeah, let's get this kid a heart transplant or whatever.
But that's because I think mutual aid is a thing.
And I think that, like, solidarity, like, as someone needing, like, medical attention is, like, kind of a real thing.
And I'm assuming this guy isn't a leader or any major person, but it's also a way of demonstrating to that person and to everyone else.
It's like, no, your real problem is not – your issue is not where you think it is, right?
Like, your issue, like, and that's, like, real solidarity, right?
Goes towards, like, material needs and material interests.
I don't know, maybe it's... Yeah, I'm talking, like, you know, political activism.
Sure, sure, sure.
Obviously, universal, you know, we should have universal healthcare and it should be available to everybody.
That's right.
It should be universal.
Right, right, yeah.
I absolutely agree with that.
Sorry, I'm just, I'm just trying to, I'm just trying to kind of, like, I was trying to establish this sort of, like, difference, because I think, like, we might have some listeners who are sort of, like, boogaloo curious, or, you know, kind of whatever.
And I feel like there is this kind of shroud of mystery around a lot of these things.
And if there's one... I know you've got more notes.
I just want to kind of, like, kind of highlight some stuff here, just while I'm thinking of it, if that's okay with you.
Yeah.
I think the next few years, like the Biden administration, four or eight years, probably four, is going to be, what I'm seeing happening is muddying the water.
You're going to see a lot more really kind of complicated people having kind of complicated alliances and allegiances and kind of viewpoints and without a clear idea of like where our politics are and where our politics should lie and what kinds of things we should and should not accept then we are vulnerable to people who will come in as a trojan horse and try to take over the movement from within
not that i'm the leader of any kind of movement or anything you know but like that's that's what we're going to see and i think the boogaloo boys are like kind of that like what we're seeing even since sort of like the trump election loss what we're seeing from the steamy door interview like listening to this guy talk listening to this magnus guy talk he's He is saying things that I think people without, like, kind of a knowledge of the dog whistles, without a knowledge of the specific language and the specific history of some of these terms.
Like, he talks about, like, oh no, we need to be a resistance.
We need to have a strike.
We need to have a tax strike.
We need to stop paying our taxes, because paying our taxes to fund these wars is wrong.
And it's like, oh, no, that's straight up John Birch posse comitata shit that Tom Metzger got his start in.
So maybe we should be thinking about that.
Because maybe when you say general strike and then move immediately to tech strike, that's a sign of where your impulses actually lie.
And maybe you are not actually on our side.
But, of course, Jimmy Dore, he doesn't call it out.
And from everything that I saw in the video and I watched it twice as we were prepping this episode because I had nothing else to do because you prepped this episode.
But no.
Well, roughly.
I watched it, and Jimmy Dore doesn't give me any sign that he sees that bit of rhetorical sleight of hand, right?
No, no.
Because he's got no class analysis, so he doesn't notice that we've gone from talking about working class self-activity to giving breaks to capitalists.
And people who, even beyond, like, not even going to that level, but I agree with you, not even going to that level, people who understand the history of right-wing movements, people who understand how the right, how this kind of far-right Far-right extremism, I hate the term extremism, but you understand what I'm saying here, how they have sought to infiltrate other political activities over the course of the last 70 years or so.
Any one of us could have looked at that and laughed at it, right?
You don't have to be as deep in this as I am, right?
But any person with any level of knowledge, any I-don't-speak-German listener could have taken this guy apart in 10 minutes, right?
And Jimmy Dore either won't or can't.
And if we think the answer is can't, then that's a sign that more education of the type that you and I are doing on this podcast needs to still happen.
And what I'm seeing from all the kind of fascist stuff Since the Trump loss.
They've moved on from Trump.
They understand that they're in the background for the next four years at least.
They don't have a fascist in waiting to support, and they know that their job is now to muddy the waters and to infiltrate everybody.
That's what we're seeing.
It's not even like red-brown alliance.
It's just like brown It's just shit everywhere.
And so a lot of what I'm doing at this point is just like, I'm just going to start pointing it out, you know, like I don't know what else to do.
Well, yeah, I mean, that's that's why I thought that this would be something for us to talk about, because, again, it's a bit out of our normal wheelhouse.
It's about it's a bit out of our normal Because we have been doing a fair bit recently on this very thing you've been talking about, which is the trend on the right to drift towards trying out third positionism as the next strategy, trying to peel off that.
It's absolutely the National Justice Party.
Yeah, exactly.
When the Democratic, and I'm not trying to harp on this, and I'm not trying to beat the Bernie stand, sorry Bernie, I know you're sitting in the corner, he's shaking his head at me, he's not happy with me right now, but when Bernie was crushed out of this primary in March, They started sharpening their knives.
That's what happened.
Yeah.
All right?
Yeah.
And they know exactly what they're doing.
And it is people following them and people knowing what they're doing that you need to be listening to.
And it is like, I'm not talking about me.
There are other, there are plenty of other people.
Anybody who follows this stuff knows this, right?
Like, you know, like there's so many journalists.
Like, it's funny.
I saw some tweets that were basically like, you know, when, uh, when the former extremism reporters actually end up being relevant to mainstream discourse, you know, that we're truly fucked.
So, yeah, that's, uh, that's, that's where we are.
You know, like, yeah.
You know, my wife turned to me over the summer and she said, you know, my Facebook friends are trying to sound like you did like four years ago.
Is that a bad thing?
And I'm like, it's good and bad.
Yeah, it's good that they're paying attention.
It's bad that they're forced to pay attention.
That's that's sort of the that's sort of the answer there.
And I apologize.
Exactly.
Yeah.
So, yeah.
Anyway.
And I think Stuff like this, coming from the quote-unquote left, the progressive side, if you want to put it that way, it's going in exactly the wrong direction.
It's going towards these people who are, as you say, poised to try to do this, to peel off that layer of people who are, you know, disillusioned Who may have been pro-Bernie.
Sorry, Bernie.
May have been pro-Bernie for the Democratic nomination.
Saw what happened there.
However, Bernie didn't get it.
You know, he still didn't get it.
And they're disillusioned with that project.
They're disillusioned, maybe angry with the Democratic Party.
That factors in very much with Jimmy Dore's approach, which is to constantly And again, this is really difficult because, you know, the Democratic Party's fucking awful.
I mean, don't think for a moment I'm defending them.
But the point is that Jimmy Dore equates, and I'm sure you could go through it and find, you know, instances of him saying this isn't the case, but what you get from having, what I get from having listened to a fair bit of this stuff now, Is, out of sort of morbid fascination, is this reduction of the whole thing down to this one rotten establishment, you know?
And again, we were talking about the force the vote thing, the constant drive to find how the voices who are worthwhile aren't really worthwhile, you know?
Going after AOC, she's not really a progressive, etc.
And then, you know, falling into the arms of people like Tulsi Gabbard, which, God, that's an entire episode in itself.
IDSG, Tulsi Gabbard, that's going to happen way before Jordan Peterson, by the way.
Jimmy Dore has been pro-Bernie, you know, he's said good things about Bernie, he's criticised him, he's said good things about him, you know, he's sort of openly said, you know, we'd like to see somebody like Bernie or Tulsi Gabbard, which, you know, again, the ideological confusion you need to say that.
I'm amazed at the Tulsi phenomenon.
This really is something that you and I are going to have to talk about at some point.
The degree to which the wool over people's eyes, and I hate to put it this way, and I know you're leaning somewhere.
It really is.
She's hot.
Like, I mean, that's... I mean, you know, like, conventionally attractive, whatever.
Like, it really is, like, people want to bone her, and so therefore, you know, like, she's great!
She said war is bad, because, like, American soldiers shouldn't be in the Middle East, because it's about the American soldiers.
She's anti-war, anti-imperialist.
Don't look at her connections to endo-fascists.
Don't look at the cult she grew up in.
No, no, she's great.
She's great.
Transphobia.
Don't look at all that.
She went against all that like two years ago.
It's fine.
She is fine.
Very fine.
I want to see her in a wetsuit.
It's fine.
Tulsi.
Tulsi.
You know the Nazis that I listen to?
Like, they call her Coconut Mommy?
And, like, we could spend a whole hour unpacking that, right?
Oh god, I want to die.
The whole, like, everybody listening to this episode just had the exact same response of like, Jesus Christ, Harper, like, why do you do this to us?
Anyway, please continue.
Yeah.
All I was trying to get to was that I thought this was worth talking about because, you know, I see it as a form of ostensibly left politics, which is, you know, they're inching in the direction towards meeting the far right as they try to edge towards the left in order to try to peel off these disillusioned, you know, left democrat people, which is the very threat you've been talking about.
And there we have people like Jimmy Dore equating The Democrats and the Republicans is pretty much completely equal just in this sort of decontextualized blob of an establishment.
And why shouldn't the left and the right align against it?
And then we can argue about how our insignificant little ideological differences afterwards, insignificant ideological differences about whether trans people should be allowed to live.
But, and it's this paradox of the sort of class reductionist left that actually doesn't have a class analysis.
That's where it ultimately comes from.
Because a real class analysis allows you to understand that the working class includes all these people that you're telling to shut up because they're trying to talk about things other than class.
But that's, you know, that's my thing.
But it's so dangerous.
It's so dangerous to have people ostensibly, and this is where he's going.
And if you, I think, I think if you look at the turn that Jimmy Dore has taken sort of relatively recently, you can really see him going in that Tim Pool direction, you know, in that sort of faux centrist but actually a reactionary.
Because it's a weird kind of centrism, isn't it?
The Democrats and the Republicans are basically the same.
It's couched as a kind of radical critique from the left, but it actually ends up just as a kind of dunder-headed centrism.
And I think...
What you end up with then is somebody who is, I was talking about that kind of ideological, that financially motivated ideological behaviorism that happens with people like Dave Rubin and Tim Pool, and it pulls people further and further to the right.
I think you're starting to see something like that happening with Mr. Doar, because I think he's identified this market of people who, you know, they hate the Democrats and the Republicans equally, And they might be attracted to something like the Boogaloo, which of course, this guy has a degree in marketing.
The Boogaloo is a great big marketing exercise.
Oh yeah, no, definitely.
And I mean, it is.
And he's fallen for it!
That's what I got from the Magnus, what's his name?
Panvidya.
My apologies.
Magnus Panvidya.
Appearance.
That's one of his names, anyway.
That's what I got from it.
This guy, he's smooth.
He knows how to sell his ideas to the audience.
He's very good at communicating clearly in a few words.
This is not someone who is...
ignorant of what he's doing right and so like even if we were to grant uh jimmy door the the greatest of um you know if we're gonna kind of grant him everything right you know like to to To give him the benefit of the doubt.
Panvidya is manipulating him, right?
And Jimmy Dore is eating it up, because Panvidya is very good at this.
The bit of research I did for this episode was to kind of try to dig into Pan Vidya's history and his Twitter, and I can assure you that I will be watching in the future.
Yeah.
I love that I say that and Jack just kind of like chuckles and he knows that, yeah, there's an episode.
There's an episode in the future.
There's an episode coming up.
He's open to file, folks.
There's a directory.
It's named Magnus Panvidia.
It actually doesn't exist yet, but I followed him on Twitter, and I've been looking into him.
I've been doing some Googling, because, you know, he's local.
He's local.
Yeah.
Well, I think, before we go, I think maybe we can talk, because there's a pretty good video about this from Matt Binder.
Oh, I didn't watch the Matt Binder one.
I watched the Sam Seder one, but I didn't watch the Matt Binder one, so yeah, please.
Yeah, no, I watched the Sam Seder one, and the Matt Binder one's very good.
And he, I mean, aside from other things, he does talk a little bit about this specific guy, this Magnus Panvidier, who's, as we've said, he's a Michigan guy, and he's also been known online as Zachariah Clark, with Z-A-double-K-A-R-I, Clark.
Does that ring a bell?
Interesting.
It does.
It does not.
But I'm going to have to check out.
Like, I did, again, I had like two hours and I, you know, was kind of furiously Googling because we did this the last minute.
And sometimes my Google food does not yield results that quickly, especially when I'm trying to eat dinner at the same time.
But, you know, please tell me.
Tell me.
Tell me what I don't know.
Again, I'm cribbing frantically from Matt Binder.
So, you know, all credit to him.
No, that's fine.
Matt Binder is better than we are, I'm sure.
You know, like, you know, well, that's just, that's partly a function of like, you know, Matt Binder doesn't have to, Matt Binder doesn't have to do this, doesn't have to have a day So if you want us to actually get good, you have to give us more money.
You have to give us more money, right.
If my Patreon got to about three times where it is now, I could quit my day job and I would do so much more material.
Yeah, absolutely.
If people want to pay me to just do this for a living, believe me, I'm perfectly happy to do that.
We might have to be Twitch streamers, you know, to make that happen.
Anyway, I'm sorry, I'm being goofy at this point.
Please tell me what Matt Binder had to say.
I'm a very old man.
I really don't know what a Twitch streamer is.
Yeah, so anyway, this guy apparently... No comment, no comment, please.
Apparently also goes by the name, or did, by the name Zachariah Clark, spelt with two Ks, as I say, which is potentially interesting in itself.
Yeah, very interesting.
One more K and you know.
But two Ks, not enough, not enough to know.
But a lot of his social media stuff history has been deleted in crackdowns, you know, on Boogaloo stuff.
But he was part of the reopen protests in Michigan.
I was looking for a photo of him at the June Lansing protests, and I put, you know, 15 minutes worth of work into it and couldn't find a photo of him.
But if Pinder found a photo, that would make me very happy.
I don't know if he was actually at the reopened protests in Michigan, but he is connected to people who were.
Now, there's a bit in Binder's video where he talks about how Panvidya says, you know, there are people in the Boogaloo Boy movement who aren't great, but the good ones police the bad ones, right?
Now, that's interesting when you view it in the context of the fact that Magnus is apparently connected to this guy Timothy Teagan.
And there are photographs of Timothy Teagan hanging out with Daniel Harris and Pete Musico, who were two of the guys who were arrested as part of the swoop on the group that were planning to kidnap Governor Gretchen Whitmer.
So, he is connected tangentially to people who were involved in that plot.
He's also been online apparently retweeting Donald Trump, Ben Shapiro, Sargon of Akkad.
He's defended a shooting, a militia guy who shot a Black Lives Matter protester.
There's a Facebook post.
Duncan Lemp?
That's another thing I was going to get to, where he makes that a question of self-defense, which it obviously wasn't.
He literally, in the interview with Jimmy Dore, he directly compares Breonna Taylor to Duncan Limp, and while I don't think the cops should have murdered Duncan Limp.
I actually don't think the cops should murder anybody.
But, you know, like, while the Duncan Limp situation is fucking bullshit, it is not nearly on the same level of bullshit as Breonna Taylor.
Anyway, please.
No, that's another thing I was going to mention.
That was going to be my crowning glory.
Oh, well, yeah.
You've preempted me.
That's fine.
I stole that from you, because I'm an American imperialist.
Yeah?
But yeah, it is absolutely disgusting to lump Duncan Lemp in with Breonna Taylor and George Floyd.
The circumstances are very different.
And Duncan Lemp was a member of a far-right group.
It's just disgusting.
And the fact that that just sails past Jimmy Dore, that tells you everything.
Again, it's the either he didn't know, in which case, why is he doing this?
It's irresponsible.
Or he did know, in which case, it's arguably worse.
But, yeah, this guy, he says in the interview with Jimmy Dore that he's pro-Antifa.
Well, in old posts of his under the name Zachariah Clark, you find him talking about wiping his ass with left-wing anti-fascist movements and equating them to fascists.
So this guy, I mean, we've been talking about some of this more sophisticated and nuanced stuff, but there's also just lying going on here.
Just straight up fucking lying.
You always with these fucking people.
Now that's my turn to get mad.
You always with these fucking people.
They're like, I want to align with Antifa and Black Lives Matter against the forces, the powerful forces that are against us.
The oligarchs, which very often you just want to put that in three parentheses and it makes a lot more sense.
But I'm not going to quite push in that direction here, you know.
But then you always find, like, the old social media posts, or you find the Discord chats, or you find the Facebook page where it's like, oh no, actually Antifa should be shot on sight.
And it's like, yeah, no, I, we, yeah, obvious.
Yeah.
I mean, I know he's, he's not, he's not the same, but Peter Sweden, yeah.
Yeah.
He starts getting a bit of media attention and suddenly it's, oh, I hate totalitarianism, right and left.
And you go back into his old Twitter stuff and you find, oh, I'm pretty sure the Holocaust didn't happen and the camps had swimming pools, you know?
Yeah.
But you didn't disprove that, Jack, on the podcast.
You did not establish that.
You did not.
You didn't argue against it, so therefore... I dare say the camps did have swimming pools.
I don't think the prisoners were using them, but there you go.
Well, you know.
They have a response.
It's fine.
We don't need to care about that.
It's late.
It's very late.
Very different topic, very different topic.
A big point that Matt Binder makes, of course, is that these people are a movement based around Civil War.
I mean, as we covered in our own Boogaloo episode.
On our mini Boogaloo episodes!
We did one that was a very particular Boogaloo episode, and I think Jimmy Dore, you know, he could have even just listened to that, he would have been more informed than he was going in.
Well, and that episode is not even, like, I mean, that episode is obscure in the sense that I know how many downloads it got, and it's not, I mean, you know, it's small in the sense of Jimmy Dore probably never heard of us, right?
I'm just being a bit facetious there, I'm just saying, you know, he could have just listened to one of our episodes and gone in better informed.
But there are other people who have written much more widely shared things about the Boogaloo.
Like, this is kind of where I land, again.
Who do you think I'm cribbing for?
He has no reason not to know all of this, right?
Exactly.
And as other people have pointed out, Jimmy Dore, if he finds himself in a post-Boogaloo America where the right and the left have united against the oligarchs, What is that world going to look like?
What is a world partly made by the Boogaloo boys who are comprised of right libertarian anarcho-capitalists on the left and on the right are composed of fucking white supremacists?
What is that world going to look like?
How is the anti-government right libertarian Boogaloo way of doing things going to square with his obsessive fixation on things like Medicare for all?
And in another way of looking at it, You know, this guy, this guy's a white cis, as far as I know, gentile, straight guy.
You know, he's relatively safe, isn't he?
He's not really juggling with his personal safety when he flirts with these people.
And these people are lethally dangerous to a whole load of people that aren't like him.
And it just sickens me, particularly because it's done under this guise of being on the left or being a progressive, of people who have said, yeah, we're pro-AOC, we're pro-Bernie.
Bernie's angry about it as well.
You know, we don't need these fucking people.
We don't need these people because they're ultimately not working for the same goals.
It's empiricism.
It's basic entryism.
And yeah, no, it's terrible.
It's terrifying.
This is, again, everything's going to get muddy.
People who have been listening to this podcast will have a much better understanding of the I don't know.
It's only just begun.
people who aren't.
So, share this podcast, please.
And other sources, I don't know, like, the next four years are going to get very, very complicated.
This isn't over.
It's only, like, here's, I don't know, like, it's only just begun.
We haven't even started yet.
Trump being out of office, like, it's great, but it just makes the other forms of this more insidious and more vicious.
So, yeah, yeah.
But the way to fight it is to- And there is no force.
There is no big institution that's going to come in and help us at this point.
We all have to work together to do this now.
And I hate that I don't have a better answer than that, but that's all I have.
It's like, we have to... That's where we are.
That's where we are.
Yeah, and the way to fight it is not to make alliances with the far right, however they present themselves.
Yeah, yeah.
Because that is a betrayal.
But also just understanding what the snake in the grass looks like, and the snake in the grass right now looks like a fucking boogaloo.
Like, you know, like look, again, some 17 year old kid likes guns and finds the memes cool and kind of gets into it, and you have a personal relationship with this kid and you can talk to them and really have a relationship and really kind of get them out of it.
Like, that's one thing.
But, like, when some guy shows up and is like, oh, I'm a booger, I'm totally into this thing, and I want to support Black Lives Matter, That's not where we want to go.
That's not a thing, because these people push comes to shovel, turn on you, and on a dime.
And they do, and have, in documented ways.
They've repeatedly used Black Lives Matter as a cover for committing terrorism.
I just love... Robert Evans tells this on a number of occasions.
A friend of the pod, Robert Evans.
I just love being able to say that, you know.
Yeah, that's a good thing to say.
It's a nice thing to say.
He says, you know, the Boogaloo Boys showed up to the protests in Portland over the summer.
And, uh, the second the cops pulled out the pepper balls on the tear gas, they ran the fuck away.
They ran away.
It was, it was 40 year old soccer moms that stood up much, much better than the fucking Boogaboys.
And, uh, you know, I'm not going to like, it's not, it's not a matter of like toxic masculinity.
Like I have never been fired on with tear gas.
I have no idea how I would respond to that.
But like, if you're like pretending like, oh yeah, we're going to be here to start a civil war.
Uh, you know, look at me with my big $15,000 rifle.
Also, I'm gonna run away from some, like, pepper balls.
Uh, you know, maybe you're not as tough.
Maybe, maybe you need to, like, step down a bit.
Hey, look, I would run like fuck, but I don't claim to be a tough guy, you know?
Right, right, sure, sure.
Like, I would like to think I would show solidarity with my comrades.
I would, you know, I would hope.
That I would have the courage for that, but I haven't been in that situation.
I've been in other situations that required courage, but not that one in particular.
Do you have anything else you'd like to, because I do have a couple of news stories I'd like to cover here at the very end.
There's just, there's one more thing.
I was going to read this at the start and I forgot, but this is, this is our, this is our text.
This is our text for today.
And I'm going to read you a very, I promise you very, very, very short passage from Capital Volume 3.
Oh God!
By Karl Marx.
We've reached this point and I don't speak German in which we're reading Capital Volume 3.
Okay, please.
Reading it in English translation, of course, because I don't speak German.
Well, no one who speaks German is allowed on this podcast.
This is part 7, chapter 48.
This is from page 956 in the Penguin edition.
All science... Stop laughing.
All science would be superfluous if the form of appearance of things directly coincided with their essence.
That's it.
I told you it was short.
But there you have it.
Because somebody's wearing a Hawaiian shirt, it doesn't mean they're a funny, friendly guy.
Because somebody's carrying a gun, it doesn't mean they're a tough guy.
And because somebody tells you, yeah, I like Black Lives Matter, yeah, I'm pro-LGBT, it doesn't mean they're fucking telling the truth.
They could be lying.
And you know what?
They are.
And you need to know that.
And you can know that.
It's not actually that difficult.
And if you don't know that, and you can't be bothered to find out, DO NOT FUCKING PLATFORM THESE PEOPLE, and then let them spew their bullshit unchallenged.
Because you are helping Right wing, I don't know about this specific guy, but it sounds like he's pretty fucking shady.
You are helping right wing accelerationist terrorists who at best are fucking anarcho-capitalist nutbags.
So shut the fuck up.
There you go, I'm done.
I really hate to even comment after that, but I do feel like there are a couple of news stories that we should just kind of slide in here at the end.
And God, that should really be the end of the episode.
But it's not, because I'm a dork.
So one of the things, because there's so much news happening, and I'm just going to slam this in here, is that Enrico Terrio, who was the leader of the Proud Boys, was arrested on January 5th of 2021.
Yes.
And he was discovered carrying some magazines.
So Washington, D.C.
has incredibly draconian firearms laws.
And I'm not here to debate one way or the other on that at this point, but it does have You are basically not able to bring anything that can fire anything with a velocity greater than a certain velocity into the city at all.
You will be horribly clamped down upon.
Terrio brought in extended bags, which were completely fucking illegal within DC, that had, like, Proud Boys logos on them.
And so, like, he fucking knew what he was fucking doing.
Like, this was immediate stuff.
Like, there's kind of no question about that, as far as I'm concerned.
Um, so he was arrested and it was revealed today that, uh, he was, uh, back in 2012 when he was arrested and convicted of a complicated scheme involving, uh, fake diabetic test strips, which let me just, let me just rewind here.
That by itself, like, that is a fucking evil thing to do.
Yeah, that's Harry Lyne-level shit.
Making fraudulent, like, oh god, The Third Man.
Should we do The Third Man?
Oh god, yeah.
Is it on this episode?
Yeah.
Alright, maybe February is The Third Man.
Oh, wow.
I would love to do The Third Man.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Anyway.
Would you even notice if one of those little dots- no, not now, we'll do it later.
We'll do it in February.
No, no, we should do this.
I was thinking we'll do 1984, but also The Third Man.
More content in 2021, that's the thing.
Patreon, that's how you get it.
Go ahead.
like more content in 2021 that's that's the uh thing but patreon that's how you get it go ahead even beyond the oh my god you're literally selling fake medical supplies to like impover How fucking low could you get?
And you served prison time for it, right?
And you're a convicted felon!
I am perfectly, like, willing to believe, like, I'm not in favor of the American carceral system, etc, etc.
Obviously, I'm a prison abolitionist.
Like, I think this is completely something that everyone listening to this show should know.
But also, like, fuck, like, fucking Ricky Theriault, like, long before anything he did, like, you know, involving the Proud Boys, like, that's, that's, that's just awful!
Like...
Selling fake diabetes test strips is way worse than, like, punching your way through a crowd of Antifa or whatever.
Like, not to defend the other, but, like, fuck!
That's so bad!
It's so bad it's almost parodically bad, you know?
It's like... But not only is it bad...
The cops, the feds charmed him and he gave a ton of info on his compatriots.
That's why he got out early.
And then he got out early and started being the leader of the Proud Boys.
Oh man, I have complicated feelings about the American prison system now.
Like, it would have been, the world would have been better if they just kept him, if they just kept him in a cage.
Actually, like, it would be better if they could, they could, they could put him in a nice hotel or something.
Like, that would be better.
And also, people who didn't do things, but also people who didn't do things as bad.
Like, if Enrico Terrio gets, Everybody should have a nice, comfortable home, and food, and warmth, and medical care.
It's just that a tiny minority of people shouldn't be allowed out of the nice, comfortable home that they're given.
You know, so...
Everybody should have a nice, comfortable home and food and warmth and medical care.
It's just that a tiny minority of people shouldn't be allowed out of the nice, comfortable home that they're given.
That's basically what we need.
Because they're fascists and because they're, you know, preying out other people.
And, you know, like, yeah.
Again, I have complicated feelings about all this.
So, second news story that came out today.
I really regret not doing an episode about Ricky Vaughn previously, because then I could reference that previous episode.
But Ricky Vaughn was a pro-Trump troll, like a Twitter troll in 2015 and 2016, who was as much as anyone in terms of Twitter presence, the person kind of spreading the pro-Trump who was as much as anyone in terms of Twitter presence,
And if you credit the Twitter presence as being a thing that affected Trump's ability to gain the office of the presidency...
He's kind of among the most present people, right?
The veteran of the great meme wars.
He was the greatest veteran of the meme wars, right?
Sorry, I've had like three glasses of whiskey while I've been recording this.
Oh really?
I couldn't tell.
Yeah, well, hopefully the audience can't tell.
I do apologize.
People pay me for this, right?
I think this'll be fine, don't worry.
Anyway, so Ricky Vaughn was doxxed in 2018 by Chris Cantwell.
We're never going to escape!
There's no escape!
We're never getting away!
We're never gonna escape.
And I knew about this at the time.
Cantwell News, everybody.
Cantwell News.
I had been considering doing a Ricky Vaughan episode.
He's been on that kind of like mid-level list, but he kind of disappeared after that.
Since the Biden inauguration, Ricky Vaughn has been arrested by the feds for interfering in the 2016 election for some ads he placed that On Facebook, I believe that Encouraged people not to vote who were likely Democrat voters, etc, etc Anyway, he's been arrested like today.
I saw this today and Willie Gorsenski friend of the pod posted this There's a big complicated story involving Douglas Mackey, who is his real name.
Ricky Vaughn is Charlie Sheen's character in the film Major League, in case you don't know.
I have to confess, that one had passed me by.
That was, that was, uh, that was Mackey's avatar, Douglas Mackey's avatar in, uh, on Twitter for years until he got banned from Twitter.
So anyway, uh, so there's a big, uh, complicated story involving Ricky Vaughn and Chris Cantwell and this guy, Paul Nealon, who I've really wanted to do an episode on.
And I think we're going to do an episode on in the very near future and explain all this shit to you people who listen to me.
As the source, but the fact that Ricky Vaughn got arrested and he's now probably going to serve some federal prison time for election interference is, even me as a hardcore prison abolitionist, who thinks even my worst enemies should not serve prison time in our current carceral system.
Kind of glory.
It's kind of, it's kind of fine.
Like, yeah, if anybody should, it should be Ricky Vaughn.
It should be, it should be the overt Nazis.
Um, and so Emily Gerstensky, and I put this in the show notes, Emily Gerstensky posted a thread, uh, she was looking at the documents, kind of posting down the list of like all the shit.
And, uh, Anybody who is kind of familiar with the context of all this can read through the lines and know who all the people are.
And then at the end, she goes, she tags me and says, If anything, this means that Daniel Harper is always going to have a source for Cantwell news.
And what my response to that was is, yeah, job security.
There's always more Cantwell.
There's always more.
People will keep listening forever, as long as I keep giving the raw cocaine of Cantwell news.
Yeah.
Again, I apologize for having a little bit of whiskey, but you understand we're in this place of, I just need a little bit of whiskey to get through this episode.
I think everybody understands.
Yeah.
Okay, well.
Wrap it up, we're done.
There we go, yeah.
That's it, that's the news well and truly rounded up.
So it's, yeah, I mean, listen to this podcast, which you're already doing, but listen to it more, more often, and tell people about it all the time.
Grab Strangers on the Street.
Listen to every episode twice, but download twice so that the numbers go up, because that's what we see.
Also, check out our Patreon episodes.
Yeah, give us money.
The first one is out.
The first one, Punishment Park, we reviewed, discussed.
We didn't review.
We discussed the 1971 film, Punishment Park, which no one has heard of because capitalism.
Punishment Park.
And we had a lot of really good things to say, I think.
And you should go listen to that.
I agree.
You can get access to that for as little as $1 a month by joining my Patreon or Daniel's Patreon.
You can of course give more than that to both of us if you want.
You don't get anything for that except a warm glow of moral satisfaction.
So yeah, that's it.
Goodbye from me and Daniel and from Silent Bernie over there.
I think he might be dead actually.
Is there a precedent for this?
For somebody called Bernie being dead and we have to pretend he's alive?
I'm sure I've seen that somewhere.
There is.
I don't think Bernie is dead.
that I just think he's within the Biden administration and so therefore is kind of dead.
That was I Don't Speak German.
Thanks for listening.
If you enjoyed the show or found it useful, please spread the word.
If you want to contact me, I'm at underscore Jack underscore Graham underscore, Daniel is at Daniel E Harper, and the show's Twitter is at IDSGpod.
If you want to help us make the show and stay 100% editorially independent, we both have Patreons.
I Don't Speak German is hosted at idonspeakgerman.libsyn.com, and we're also on Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud, Spotify, Stitcher, And we show up in all podcast apps.
This show is associated with Eruditorum Press, where you can find more details about it.
