I Don't Speak German, Episode 11: The Christchurch Massacre and Leaderless Resistance
In this episode we touch on the promised topic of the mainstreamers vs the vanguardists in the far-right movement, but only in the course of covering topical events. These include the firing of the 'Nazi EMT' Alex McNabb, and the recently released tapes of disgusting comments by Fox News's pet white nationalist con-man Tucker Carlson. But, most particularly, of course, we talk about the recent ghastly massacre at Christchurch, New Zealand. Daniel provides really vital insights in this episode into the way such murderous terrorist attacks by fascists - of which the Christchurch attack is just the latest of many - stem from a conscious organisational strategy within the far right called 'leaderless resistance'. Daniel explains this and where it comes from, its meaning within the movement, etc, going into the infamous racist novel The Turner Diaries and 'The Order', and so on. He also goes into the murderer's 'manifesto', the meme-drenched nature of his chan board-based fascism, and describes the contents of his livestream broadcast. We touch on the killer's 'Balkan Nationalism' and his ostensible ecological concerns. Needless to say, some of this is upsetting listening. (Sorry for the delay but, to be honest, this one was a bit distressing to edit.) * Catch us on iTunes. We recently got mentioned in a web article by David Gerard for Foreign Policy magazine about the far-right and crypto currency, for which Daniel was interviewed. We were also recommended on the AV Club, thanks to Anthony Herrera. * Show Notes: Bring the War Home Blood and Politics McNabb fired "In Unearthed Audio, Tucker Carlson Makes Numerous Misogynistic and Perverted Comments" Madeline Peltz profile at Washington Post Chip Berlet "When Hate Went Online." Documents white supremacist BBS networks in 1984 or 1985. Louis Beam at the SPLC Louis Beam: Leaderless Resistance. (His site.) Robert Jay Mathews at Wikipedia 'The Order' at Wikipedia Robert Evans at Bellingcat: "Shitposting, Inspirational Terrorism, and the Christchurch Mosque Massacre" "In Brenton Harrison Tarrant’s Australian hometown, his relatives remember violent video games, trouble with women" "'You Are Safe Now': Moments of Heroism in Christchurch Massacre" "New Zealand Mosque Gunman Inspired by Balkan Nationalists." On the Moynihan Report Part 3 of Behind the Bastards podcast series on George Lincoln Rockwell, the father of modern American fascism, focusing on his legacy. Good stuff. Intersects with our topics this week. Excellent new video from Some More News on Tucker Carlson, covering his recent "How is Diversity Our Strength?" rhetoric. Sean debunks Lauren Southern and her puffing of the 'Great Replacement' racist conspiracy theory
OK, welcome to episode 11 of I Don't Speak German, the podcast where I talk to Daniel Harper about what he learned from more than two years of listening to the American far-right, white supremacist, etc., Nazis, fascist scum, talking to each other in their online safe spaces, their YouTube videos, their podcasts, etc.
And in another change to the scheduled program this week, we are, well, we are, I think, going to be touching a little bit on the What is it?
Mainstream versus vanguardist?
Movementarian?
There's no well-defined terminology for it.
I'm so well prepared!
I think, just to peek behind the curtain here, audience, if you've seen the title of this, you kind of know why we're both completely fucking exhausted.
But we're both completely fucking exhausted, and on top of everything else, I worked like eight hours of overtime this weekend.
So yeah, we're doing great here.
We put out product for you, for free.
You're welcome.
Please don't feel guilty in any way.
No, please do not feel guilty.
Only if we were to actually speak German should you feel obligated to feel bad for us.
That's right, because that would be a violation of trade's description or something.
Yeah, so this is not about what we said it was going to be about, although I think we are going to touch upon it.
We're not going to do the deep dive on that.
We are going to cover it a bit, and we'll just kind of have to schedule that in for later on when we kind of do more of the militia movement, because that kind of... We'll cover the big picture today, and then the details we'll get into in a much future episode when I dig into that.
We'll get to some of that, why that's... God, I'm so flabbergasted at trying to explain this.
It's fine.
Let's move on.
You're going to have to make allowances for us, because we're both a bit frazzled, as Daniel says at the moment, with one thing and another.
And that's because, you know, to finally announce the topic of this episode, we're going to be talking mainly about the horrific massacre in Christchurch, New Zealand.
We're going to We are going to be talking about that.
We're going to be going into some detail, not a huge amount of detail.
We have to issue the caveat that, you know, everything we say is the state of our knowledge now, you know, and that is obviously imperfect.
So, you know, things can change and it's nasty stuff.
And we're going to try to signpost it before we get to it so that you know it's coming.
And before we get directly to it, we are going to talk about a couple of other things which have happened recently.
It's kind of a news roundup episode, so we're experimenting with the format a bit.
So let us know what you think, audience.
And the first item on the news roundup agenda is Mr McNabb, the Nazi EMT, and his job fortunes.
Yes, so I said a couple weeks ago that he was investigated for, you know, possible misconduct on the job.
They found no evidence of misconduct and so he was crowing on his podcast about He was gonna go back to work and you know I don't even do this for the money it's just because I just I just feel like I need to help people you know so I work part-time as an EMT it's it's it's a giant heart you see that he feels the need to to work in this profession.
He's a humanitarian.
He's a humanitarian he's a humanitarian Nazi you know he he feels he feels an obligation in his heart to help the less fortunate.
And the inferior races.
That's kind of his perspective.
It's kind of like his white man's burden, in a way.
I'm just going to read from this local news thing, which will be in the show notes.
This is the Jeb Stewart Volunteer Rescue Squad voted unanimously Sunday to terminate Alex McNabb.
Board members said they did not want people in the community to doubt the intentions of those tasked with saving the lives of others, according to Wren Williams, the squad's attorney.
They decided, no, you really haven't done anything, like, in your job that, uh, you know, is kind of, like, termination-worthy in and of itself, but, uh, you're a fucking racist, and we think people aren't gonna call 9-1-1 if they think you might show up at their house.
So, he's- he got shit canned, so, um, good on- good on them.
I really thought they were gonna keep him on.
I- I didn't expect this outcome.
No, that's a pretty good outcome.
Although, of course, it is an outrageous infringement upon an innocent man's freedom of speech, isn't it, really?
I would like to just, you know, just in terms of talking about the journalism around this stuff, I'm increasingly of the opinion that what my goal with this stuff is, is just to teach journalists to talk about this better.
Somebody needs to.
Let me read you the headline.
Patrick County EMT fired after making racist remarks on podcast.
Alex McNabb did not make racist remarks on a podcast.
Alex McNabb is one of the main hosts of a podcast that is pushing a borderline and sometimes overtly genocidal agenda towards non-white people in the North American continent.
Yeah, he is.
This is not like, oh, I dropped the n-bomb a couple of times.
I'm sorry, whatever.
This is the podcast is called The Daily Show.
Yeah, racism is built into its DNA.
Yeah.
You could be forgiven, couldn't you, if you just scanned that headline for thinking you went on, like, a baseball podcast and said something slightly off-color about Hispanic people.
Yeah.
No.
No.
And that's the version of this that he wants you to believe.
That, oh, yeah, I'm just kind of a comedy shock jock.
I just kind of went out there.
I made some comments that people didn't like, but other people thought it was funny and you really shouldn't think.
And it's all just a big laugh.
It is not a big laugh.
And I think political correctness persecuting a man that made an off color joke.
No, this is this is a pervasive pattern of using jokes to mask and like actually horrifyingly racist agenda.
And this man is disgusting and vile.
And I feel bad for his infant son.
but I have a feeling that he's gonna be okay.
Well, that's on him.
Well, in terms of money-wise.
I have a feeling that this guy's going to be able to support himself.
through some other way.
Not so great having Alex McNabb as his father.
No, that's deeply unfortunate for him.
Last line of this short piece, I'm just going to read it out here.
So this guy Locke Boyce who, I don't know if I mentioned this, there was a heated argument between Boyce and McNabb at a hearing in December.
Boyce says, Mr. McNabb does enjoy some protection from the First Amendment.
The people who have his view should not be in positions of responsibility over other people.
Before signing his vote, Boyce thought there was a good chance the rescue squad was going to keep McNabb on staff.
He said Monday that he thought the decision shows courage on the part of the board.
That's an admirable thing for them to do, and I'm glad they did it, Boyce said.
He said McNabb's attorneys have told him they plan on suing him for his public comments that McNabb is a racist and a white supremacist.
Lock Voice, if you are listening to this podcast, if you get sued by Alex McNabb, my DMs are open.
Yeah.
We have material you might be interested in.
Yeah, I think I can establish in a court of law that Alex McNabb is both a racist and a white supremacist.
Maybe.
I might be able to establish that.
It's possible.
Yeah.
Boyce is online.
If I see word of a lawsuit that goes through, I think it's an idle threat.
If I see word of a lawsuit, don't worry, I will be reaching out to Mr. Boyce.
Good, good.
That's kind of all I got on that topic, at least for now.
We'll keep track of it and see what happens.
Yeah, good.
And another thing that's happened recently is Mr. Tucker Carlson has been in the news with some, again, just innocent, off-color, jokey remarks that the political correctness Nazis have Taken out of context and he's now being persecuted for it.
Isn't that right?
That's what happened, isn't it?
That's right.
That's exactly what happened.
Poor innocent Tucker Carlson just went on to a comedy show and made a couple of off-colored remarks.
So this was released by Media Matters for America.
So, in case you don't know, Tucker Carlson basically spreading white supremacist lies on his television show, Five Nights at Freddy's.
More and more openly all the time.
It's almost like every broadcast is more open about it.
Right, exactly, and copious evidence of that in previous episodes of the show.
Christopher crying Nazi Cantwell is his biggest, biggest fan.
Back in the Obama years, apparently Tucker Carlson used to go on a shock jock radio show called Bubba the Love Sponge.
Now, this is the sort of thing where...
I really wish we were going after Tucker Carlson for what he's doing now and spreading white nationalist talking points to millions and millions of people rather than, you know, he went and said some stuff on an edgy talk show.
You know, a decade ago.
It does seem really, you know, kind of fucked up in my opinion that, you know, he makes, uh, you know, some of these are defensible as, you know, look, he's kind of, he's sitting there, he's kind of going along with the host.
He's making, uh, you know, he's, he's making people laugh.
It's a late night show for adults.
Like, you know, if he's implying that underage girls are sexy or whatever, like, You know, I say off-color things on podcasts too.
I, you know, would hate to, you know, kind of be held to account for, you know, every last bit of that is being taken completely literally.
Absolutely.
And I, so this is kind of one of those things where, you know, I'm willing to kind of give tucker quite a bit of like leeway on this in terms of like he went on he went on a he went on a radio show he got paid to do it he said some shit that probably he shouldn't have said some of this stuff is really fucking nasty though um oh yeah reveal sort of a um
it's not so much that he's sort of saying edgy things about like you know sexy teenage girls as much as he clearly views women as objects like in real life which is why he's able to make these jokes and that to me is far more like uh Far more objectionable than, you know, kind of like laughing about underage girls in 90s in college dorms or whatever.
Of course, the thing they always say in situations like this is, oh, it's being taken out of context, it's a joke, it's a comedy show, etc.
Yeah, okay, so that's the context, fine.
If it was just that, I'd give you a mulligan.
Like, you know, people have said, like, I've done it, you've done it, everybody's done it, we've said off-coloured things, things that don't necessarily represent who we really are.
You know if you if you take us in a serious moment will say yeah i mean i don't i don't think that you know that's something that.
Loads of people have done and it's not something that should invalidate the rest of your life absolutely right the trouble is there's another context that that context is within another context is the entire rest of his fucking career right.
He's been a right-wing asshole his entire life.
He is the heir to the Swanson TV dinner fortune.
He is a vile, despicable man who, around 2016, really hitched his wagon to this kind of like slightly coded white nationalism.
And I kind of don't care what happens to him.
I would really like to see him, you know, run out of town on a rail.
Yeah, fuck.
And if it takes a little bit of a, you know, we're gonna kind of take some off-color jokes you made a few years ago, and if that's what it takes to do that, you know, some of this stuff really is pretty disgusting.
And a lot of it is like, you know, I mean it's one thing if you're kind of joking around about like, oh, attractive women who are at least of age, but he seemed to have this real like obsession with like teenage, like 15, 16, 14 year olds, you know.
There's a real, this is kind of a recurring, like, thing that's happening there.
And, you know, if you want to be a shock jock radio host and do that and make those kind of jokes, fine with, you know, I'm not, you know, it's within your First Amendment rights, I'm going to be fine with that.
But you don't also get to be, like, a respected political commentator without, like, some distance between those two things.
That's kind of my opinion on this.
Yeah.
And he's known for switching registers.
As it's convenient to him as well, you know, if you challenge him on stuff, he says, you know, the defense will be well, I'm I'm I'm an opinion.
You know, I'm an opinionator.
I'm an opinion former.
I'm a columnist, whatever it is.
He calls himself.
I'm not a not a journalist.
I'm not a reporter.
We don't he does that when it's convenient.
You know, he's a reporter when he wants you to believe the dodgy statistics that he's feeding you about migrants.
He's not a reporter when he says something and he doesn't want to be held to the facts, etc.
You know, and he says something like this suddenly.
Well, it was it's comedy.
You know it's blatantly opportunistic and as you say the guy is poison he's he's a he's spreading white nationalist white supremacist talking points in code all those are saying increasingly not in code as it goes it goes on on you know on on mainstream.
To the extent that Fox is mainstream, you know, and anything that gets rid of the guy, to be honest with you.
And yeah, there's a kind of a point in the fact that we're talking about what he said to Bubba the Love Sponge ten years ago, or whatever it was, instead of what he's saying on his show every fucking night.
Yeah, there's a point there.
That's not in his favor, though.
That's a complaint about, as you were saying before, about the way journalists report this stuff, or rather fail to, don't you think?
Absolutely, and sort of like, as long as he's sort of, um... It's funny, they got Milo for this stuff, too.
Like, they didn't get Milo on, you know, you've been, like, actively encouraging people to call ICE on any brown person from the stage of your appearances.
Or attack trans people.
They don't get Milo on attacking trans people.
Sorry, that was my next example.
You know, like, literally telling people to attack trans people in just horrifying, horrifying ways.
They're not.
They don't get him on that.
They got him on, like, a sexual assault survivor had some weird opinions about what it might take to, you know, kind of emotionally process through that assault, you know?
And I'm really trying to be, like, You know I really try to be fair to these people and I'm being very kind to Milo and assuming that he's like this is like a legitimate kind of thing that he's feeling and it wasn't just him kind of going for edgy humor and I am not trying to defend sort of the content of what he was kind of saying there and the content of you know like saying like Well, you know, a 16-year-old gay man just needs a father figure to show him the ropes, as it were.
Which is kind of essentially what he said in that moment.
But I am saying that to the degree that he... This is the thing that we can just always get people on.
You know, that like talking about like sex that is, you know, unpleasant or off color or whatever, like that seems to be the thing that suddenly, you know, and that's the bit that gets them.
I mean, like Trump and Stormy Daniels, like I don't care that Trump paid a prostitute to, you know, have a good time.
You know like I like and that's the thing that suddenly like that becomes a news story for three months You know yeah, it's just like you know it always comes back to that and again I am not defending what Tucker Carlson said and I'm not trying to defend what Milo said no I
I'm suggesting only, and I just want to make this completely clear so that this is not taken out of context on my part, I am simply trying to argue that, you know, that sexual assault survivors have lots of feelings about the way that they survived their assault, and if that was a legitimate kind of feeling that he had, I don't think that's the sort of thing, that's not the thing I would want to go after him for, right?
Yeah, the other thing about Milo is that the thing that started the dominoes falling was CPAC, Uh, just dumping him, wasn't it, that year?
Oh yeah, no, no, I mean, it was that thing.
From not wanting to be associated with him, because the, uh, it's the optics debate again.
The optics are bad, suddenly, because he said something about, uh, you know, underage sex with boys.
It's, you know, the other vile shit that he says and does all the time.
Yeah, the CPAC is fine with that.
Right, well, that's just, that just makes him more popular.
That's just, you know, hitching your, hitching your wagon to the Trump train, but, you know.
It's their bread and butter.
Once he starts getting uncomfortably sexual, that's the moment when you can kick him out.
Also, that clip was like 8 months old or something at the time that it came out.
So it was clearly, it was like somebody was sitting on that just waiting for the moment when they could cut him loose.
Maybe it was kind of uncovered.
I do want to just kind of mention this just while we're on that topic.
There's this nice piece at the Washington Post.
The young woman who worked for Media Matters who kind of uncovered all this material.
Her name was Madeline Peltz.
We actually are mutual followers on Twitter.
I don't think we've ever interacted, but she has a very nice Twitter and she kind of tracks the far right.
She tweets out a lot about Tucker Carlson.
She was on the beat of watching every Tucker Carlson show and kind of digging into his archives.
And I'm just gonna say it shows what can come of somebody just getting paid to sit and listen to tons of old audio of people saying horrible things.
Yeah.
Which is not at all a... Not something that... I have no sympathy for Ms.
Peltz at all.
You have no special sort of... You have no skin in that game.
No, fair enough.
Also, Media Matters, call me!
That's right, give Daniel a job, he does this.
He's doing it for free at the moment, pay the poor bastard.
He's putting in the ear work, you know.
I'm pretty sure I've read some stuff by Madeleine Peltz at Media Matters, actually.
Since this piece has come out, there have been a couple more.
Basically, she has a ton of material on him and they're just releasing it drip by drip by drip.
Aside from all the you know like misogyny there's also you know like he says something about I just closed the tab but there's a there's a line he has where you know.
The Iraqis would be fine if they would learn to use toilet paper and forks.
That's right he's got the fecal obsession these motherfuckers always have doesn't he?
They don't know how to wipe their ass, you see, and how can they form a functioning government, you know?
The fact that the U.S.
just, like, overtly bombed all of them into, you know, into submission and killed a million of them, that has nothing to do with anything.
It's the fact that they don't know how to use toilet paper.
That's the thing.
That's why Iraqi democracy isn't working.
Fucking with their country relentlessly, be it through, you know, no-fly zones, bombing raids, sanctions, installing Saddam in power in the first place, You know, arming both sides in the Iran-Iraq war, et cetera, et cetera, et fucking cetera.
No, no, it's nothing to do with that.
It's the fact that they are, because they're brown, they have some sort of genetic inability to manage their own arseholes.
Yeah, great.
Or, I think, Tucker, just to be completely fair to Tucker here.
Oh yeah, let's not.
I think Tucker would argue that it's a cultural, not genetic thing.
The genetic argument is the slightly further, more insane version of that.
But this is the thing, people like Tucker are a link between those two things.
Absolutely, and effectively it makes no difference, right?
Because you're saying, well, the culture is bad, but it does lend itself to a certain... Once you start making that sort of like, oh, this is inherent and genetic, you get a lot closer to justifying ethnic cleansing at that point.
Yeah, but it's just conflicts again.
It's just what looks bad, you know, to the sort of the more mainstream punters.
If you start talking about it being in the genes or in the blood, that starts to look a little bit, you know, somebody somewhere might be a bit, Oh, I don't know about that.
That's a bit fascist.
I don't like the sound of that, you know, but Tucker and people like him and there's legions of these fucking people.
They sell it as cultural, you know, so people can go, Oh yeah, so I think there might be something in there.
Yeah.
I despise these fucking people.
I'm sorry, I'm getting angry, but I despise these fucking people.
Believe me, you're not going to get disagreement from me on that point.
I mean, you're familiar with the Moynihan Report, right?
Remind me.
This is Daniel Moynihan in the 70s, I believe.
I don't have the details in front of me, but I believe he was in the House of Representatives.
And he co-authored a report which was, you know, kind of, why hasn't the the quote-unquote black community been able to rise up from, you know, poverty despite civil rights being passed a decade ago before?
I don't, sorry, I don't have the details in front of me, but it's just like a landmark report.
This is ringing faint bells now.
I mean, it sounds like baffle gab, but now that you, yeah, I have heard of this.
Yeah, and essentially the argument was, you know, well, you know, it's all these like single parent households and all these like absent fathers and, you know, they, you know, they're just these all these like cultural reasons why they just don't act white enough to really be involved in
Coming to, you know, kind of white standards of acceptability and they can't have a house in the suburbs because they just, they're just all these dysfunctional families and so it ends up being the thing that, you know, this sort of paternalistic government like justifying, you know, like, you know, work for welfare laws and that sort of thing.
It ends up being this sort of like huge ideological justification and It ends up being the sort of thing that after a couple of decades of that, when a paternalistic government forcing African American families to jump through hoops in order to get assistance, etc.
It turns out that doesn't actually do anything and people just end up like leaving the programs and like either dying or like, you know Becoming homeless like homelessness becomes a giant problem right around this time for you know God, how could that have happened?
When things continue to go bad, that just lends credence to the genetic argument, right?
Well, gee, and even after all this, they still can't get their ship together, right?
So there must be this genetic flaw, and then it leads right up to, say, the bell curve and Newt Gingrich.
Contract with America, or Contract on America, as Michael Moore used to put it in the 90s.
And, you know, it just becomes that same old justification for all of this stuff.
And then now, the alt-right is arguing that, essentially, if you believe it's just culture, you're a cuck and you're a liar.
And that's just how this stuff becomes more and more mainstream.
You know, the failure of the bad policy before the failure of this vision of the world then becomes a justification for the even more extreme version of it.
What's time?
Yeah, absolutely.
And the most frustrating thing is that the outright biological racists was not the most frustrating thing.
The most frustrating thing is that people.
Suffer and die because of this disgusting disingenuous ideological excuse for keeping them poor, you know, and standing on their necks because, you know, they, yeah, we have to pretend it's cultural failings.
But whereas, obviously, the fact that, you know, people are stuck in, in poverty is because they haven't got any fucking money.
And, you know, you're not giving them an opportunity to get out of that situation.
That's you know it's it's the other way around it's literally the exact opposite what you say you say they haven't got money because they've got these cultural problems no.
They've got the cultural problems because they haven't got any fucking money and you make damn sure they don't have an opportunity to get any money you don't help them you don't fund them you don't you don't do anything to alleviate this problem so the problem continues so you then pointed the problem and say there you go I told you there was a problem.
But one of the frustrating things is that the outright genetic racists, people like that, they will point to some of the loopholes, the problems with the cultural arguments and say, well, the cultural arguments don't work, so it must be the genes.
It must be the racial argument.
Whereas, of course, the cultural argument is just a sanitized, polite version of your argument, your racist argument.
It's just the same thing in different clothes.
Well, it comes back to – and we covered this – I can't remember which episode.
I think the David Duke episode, maybe.
The assimilationist, anti-racist, and segregationist positions.
I think it was the David Duke.
Yeah.
Ibrahim Kendi's Stand from the Beginning.
Go read that book.
It's amazing.
Just to just to summarize, you know, in that, you know, you have to kind of understand that both a sort of segregationist like these people of another race or ethnicity or religion should be separated from us.
An assimilationist position, these people are fine so long as they kind of behave in the way that's, like, integrate with the thing we already have, that those two positions are both racist positions, and that only the actively anti-racist position has any, like, has any, A, justice, and B, like, ability to, you know, actually right the wrongs of, you know, historic racism and white supremacy.
So, again, just recovering that, just in case people, this is somebody's first episode, I'm sure, so.
Yeah, but no, I mean, the problem is that they just need to pull their pants up, as Bill Cosby said.
Yeah, absolutely.
We are far afield here, but I think A, this was useful.
I think we both needed to get a little bit of rage out of this.
And B, I think we are kind of avoiding the elephant in the room a little bit.
I think we are, yeah.
Before we get to the elephant, I think you did want to touch a little bit on the mainstream versus vanguardist issue that this episode was supposed to be about, as it relates to that, didn't you?
No, absolutely.
And in fact, that's going to kind of be our lead in here.
So we are going to trend into talking about the Christchurch massacre here.
We're going to get there in just a couple minutes.
And so, again, I'm going to speak for Jack here.
Our hearts go out to, obviously, all the victims and to the citizens of Christchurch.
Neither one of us lives anywhere near that.
I'm almost literally on the opposite side of the planet from there.
This is kind of the nature of this podcast is you know kind of this grim humor and we do We laugh at some of this stuff, and we try to keep it light, but that is not in any sense an attempt to take the events of this weekend lightly, and the horror of this is very much at the top of our minds right now.
So I just want to be clear, I'm assuming this episode is going to get a bunch of listens that the other ones haven't, so just be aware that's where we land on this.
Absolutely.
Yeah, quite happy for Daniel to speak for me in that respect.
So one of the things that is essential to understanding white nationalism, white supremacy, the white power movements over the course, certainly in the United States, I am unfortunately less familiar with sort of the history around the rest of the world, but certainly in the United States.
One of the really clear distinctions that does not get brought up enough and which I hope that I can make people understand its importance is the distinction between the mainstreamers and the vanguardists.
Now there's no really good terminology for this because like while people kind of study it and people kind of understand the distinction there's not a sort of like rich rich literature that I found on it unfortunately.
Now maybe that's just I'm not looking in the right place.
But I first kind of came to this concept through Zeskin's Blood and Politics.
There is a link to that in the show notes.
This is one of the books that is most It helps me to clarify my own understanding of how to understand these movements.
And it is an absolutely phenomenal book.
Zeskind traced white nationalism back when it was attending Klan meetings in muddy shoes as opposed to following 4chan boards and the like.
He did the work for decades.
He's still alive.
He still gets interviewed and things from time to time.
There are some issues with Blood and Politics, but I think it's overall a really, really brilliant book, and I think more people should read it.
The book itself takes the form of understanding sort of the history of white nationalism.
The book was published in 2009.
It kind of stops its story sometime after the beginning of the 21st century, kind of 2002-2003, and it begins in sort of the late 40s.
And its main spine of the book is this sort of parallel career track between these two guys, Willis Cardo and William Pierce.
Now, let me just read from the book here.
This is from the preface.
Within the movement, two political trends, mainstreaming and vanguardism, vie for strategic hegemony.
The differences between the two are somewhat akin to the distinctions between reformists and revolutionaries.
They both seek the same goal, but differ over the manner in which they work towards it.
Broadly speaking, mainstreamers believe that a majority or near-majority of white people can be won over to support their cause, and they try to influence the existing structures of American life.
Vanguardists think they will never find more than a slim minority of white people to support their aims voluntarily, and they build smaller organizations of highly dedicated cadres with the intention of forcefully dragging the rest of society behind them.
As a way of illustrating this, I focus on the two personalities who epitomize their trends, Willis Cardo and William Pierce.
And then he kind of goes on to talk about it.
So, Willis Cardo ends up founding a whole bunch of organizations that Act like basically ordinary political French movements.
They put out leaflets.
They, you know, try to kind of gain Democratic support.
They run candidates.
You know, it's a lot of, you know, just kind of like that sort of like basically broadly appeal to the broadest slice of like the American populace possible and work within something that looks like an ordinary political process.
William Pierce is the other side of that.
William Pierce, you may, if you're ahead of me here, he ends up being the guy who is best known for authoring a book called The Turner Diaries.
The Turner Diaries is an incredibly influential work within this world.
It is the book that most directly inspired Timothy McVeigh, who we'll talk about here in just a moment.
But also a group called The Order in the early 80s, which essentially sort of arguably created the militia movement.
Now, I was originally planning on doing an entire episode talking about the details of The Order and some of this other stuff and kind of dig out some of the spaghetti of the history of this.
I have not had time to sort of prep for that.
I don't have it in front of me.
We will eventually do an episode on the militia and we'll kind of just sandwich that in there.
More importantly I think for this moment and the Christchurch shooting kind of made this the necessity to kind of it kind of became necessary to kind of cover it quickly and then to kind of talk about some of the issues around this shooting around this massacre and there's a figure that I think more people should know about and this is a guy named Louis Beam.
Loose Beam is still alive.
I've linked to his SPLC page.
He is a...
Overtly violent man.
He wrote a book, you know, kind of a series of essays and kind of pamphlets that got kind of collected as essays of a Klansman.
He was sort of one of David Duke's lieutenants.
David Duke, if you remember our David Duke episode, he was, he lists as one of the kind of early formative appearances of his life.
He actually got to meet William Luther Pierce in the 70s.
And so in like 1973, I think when No, in the late 60s when Duke was like 17 years old or something like that.
Beam, kind of, he goes to Vietnam.
He comes back and he decides to bring the war home.
And if you do want to know kind of the detailed history of Beam, there's another book I'm going to recommend.
I've recommended both of these books before.
They're both excellent.
This one is by Kathleen Ballou, and that is Bring the War Home, and it gives you a very long, detailed history of Louis Beahm.
Now, Louis Beahm is widely credited with popularizing, although technically not inventing, this concept called leaderless resistance.
And what this implies, kind of the idea of leaderless resistance is, okay, so if we're trying to build a, you know, kind of white supremacist, white nationalist movement, if we're trying to get things accomplished in the real world, and we're trying to do something that looks something like The more hierarchical our structure is, the less able we are to really get anything going because we are much more vulnerable to infiltration and to ultimate collapse by the kind of much larger, much more structured, much more resourced U.S.
our structure is, the less able we are to really get anything going because we are much more vulnerable to infiltration and to ultimate collapse by the kind of much larger, much more structured, much more resourced US government. the less able we are to really get anything going And so BEAM starts working to build a different kind of structure.
Instead of a pyramid structure, he recommends a cell structure.
This cell structure, if you look at kind of the details of sort of the way a lot of these things get organized, it is ripped straight out of the pages of the Turner Diaries by William Luther Pierce.
This becomes the model for every bit of right-wing, white nationalist, militia violence going forward through to today, and the tendrils of that are out All over the Christchurch Massacre.
The most prominent example of this is the Timothy McVeigh bombing.
This is the Oklahoma City in 1995.
Timothy McVeigh bombed the Murrah building, killed 159 people.
I think 20-something of them were small children.
There was a daycare in that building.
Timothy McVeigh did not care.
Or there's no evidence that he knew about it, but there's no real thought that he would have cared anyway I'm gonna read this is actually the last bit of bring the war home right before you get to the epilogue and I think it sells Because in the media these these guys kind of get called like lone wolf assassins so they get called you know like the lone nut the crazy guy, you know just snapped one day and That's not really, if you look at the history, if you look at the psychology of these guys, that's not really what's going on.
Let me read this bit from, and again, this is the very end of Bring the War Home.
Until his execution in 2001, McVeigh maintained that he had acted alone, with coerced help from Fortier and Nichols, in carrying out the bombing.
He said that his attorney was wrong about the conspiracy idea, that he had never met Mahon, and that he had encountered Strasmere only once, at a gun show.
He said he had made calls to Elohim City and the National Alliance, these are two far-right organizations at the time.
He said that he made calls to Elohim City and the National Alliance only to secure a place to hide after the bombing.
The evidence, however, from McVeigh's life history, to his associations, to the ideas that shaped his life and actions, points to his long participation in the white power movement and as a soldier of its cell-style underground.
It didn't matter that McVeigh had no demonstrable contact with white power leaders.
He could be no greater an acolyte had he gone into battle under direct command.
McVeigh referred to the bombing as a military action, and the bombing was indeed the culmination of decades of white power organization, bringing to bear years and years of paramilitarism.
The successful strategy of leaderless resistance meant that movement leaders could never be linked to the bombing, and that even the white power movement itself could become invisible, its coordinated violence misunderstood as disconnected acts carried out by lone terrorists.
The point of leaderless resistance is that you can always just point to an individual and that individual is disconnected from any kind of larger movement and therefore the people like Tucker Carlson and like all the other fucking assholes that we've talked about in this podcast can't be directly connected to the things that the violent people do.
So there's a sense in which the lone wolf, as so-called, is just another cell in the structure.
The lone wolf, like these cells, can be as small as one person, and something like that.
The evidence, there is a lot of kind of argument back and forth, and I am not qualified to discuss this argument, to discuss that evidence.
Um, there is a lot of speculation that McVeigh may have had, like, actual accomplices who are just, you know, they just couldn't, like, directly connect him to.
Um, but I think it's completely, there's nothing that happened in that bombing that seems out of the realm of the possibility that this one guy with, like, basically just coercing some, a couple other people to help him, uh, could have done without, without, you know, there's no need for kind of a large-scale, like, team to do this, right?
Um, but McVeigh is deeply invested in the white power movement, which is really kind of more an anti-government movement at that point.
It gets a little, this is where things get a little bit hazy, but McVeigh is absolutely connected in with that.
His ideas are being fed to him by, you know, at a distance from people like William Luther Pierce.
He is going to gun shows where they're selling copies of the Turner Diaries, where they're selling essays of a Klansman, where stories about some of these other figures, Bob Matthews, who founds the Order.
The Order was a-- sorry, I've mentioned them a couple of times here.
I realize I haven't defined them.
They were a group that grew out of, again, Vietnam veterans in the late '70s and early '80s.
They did a whole bunch of bank robberies actively to fund white nationalists and white supremacist groups.
It's unclear about where all that money went in the end, but we know that they Funded a whole lot of people.
A member of the order was the guy that murdered Alan Berg.
Alan Berg was a radio show host in, I believe, Portland.
And that murder ends up being the real event that inspired the Oliver Stone film, Talk Radio, if you've seen that.
They are eventually prosecuted and although they kind of got off and there's a whole there's a whole like kind of history of Kind of legal action with these guys.
I did kind of give links to some some kind of further reading about the order You can read about them both in You can read the details of that if you really want to go deep on it in both bring the war home and in blood and politics there they are very well covered in both of those books and I just did not kind of re-read to kind of bring it to the fold here, sorry.
Sure, but it's worth saying again, the order it's directly inspired by, it's like a copy of, even down to the name, the fictional terrorist provocateur organization in the Turner Diaries by William Pierce.
Yeah, William Pierce, if you've read the Turner Diaries, which, I mean, I've read the Turner Diaries, I haven't read Hunter, which is the other book William Pierce wrote, but I have read the Turner Diaries.
If you've read it, it is this near-future dystopia in which a government run by non-whites and homosexuals, etc.
a government run by non-whites and homosexuals etc are run roughshod over all the kind of white people in society and the kind of internal revolution that happens and they form this small cell group called the order and it's it's kind of a false history of that it's an It takes the form of, it's epistolary, it takes the form of a diary entry, a series of diary entries which is where the title comes from obviously.
But it's worth it, this book has had an incredible influence.
Yes, it is available online in PDF form, there's not like a good copy of it that's actually easy to read, but it is available online.
I can give you a copy if you reach out to me, it's an easy PDF, but it is available if you do want to read it.
I think more people should at least take a glance at it.
It reads a lot like third-rate Heinlein, and the Heinlein connection is not at all a stretch.
McDonald published the Turner Diaries under the pseudonym Andrew McDonald.
Anson MacDonald was an early pseudonym of Robert Heinlein's, and that's a connection that I see almost no one bring up.
And we know from Pierce's history that he was a big fan of, like, 30s sci-fi.
Like, he just kind of grew up on that.
And he was actually a kind of professional electrical engineer.
I think he had a PhD in electrical engineering.
Like, oh no, he was a physicist.
He was a physicist, excuse me.
And he was, like, very good at it.
Like, he was a legitimately bright guy.
The idea that he was not aware of the McDonald, of the Anson McDonald pseudonym, like, I think he deliberately modeled it after Heinlein.
So he's a big fan of the type of science fiction that Norman Spinrad is taking the piss out of in the Iron Dream, then?
Essentially, yeah, no, very, very much so.
I mean, like, it's funny because I grew up on that stuff too, so, like, it is, you know, I read the Turner Diaries, people go, wow, this is really horribly written, and I'm like, I could see really enjoying this in a way when I was, like, 15.
You know, just as, like, kind of pulp fiction, you know, I kind of grew up on this stuff, so, you know, it's just, you know, obviously I would have rejected the, like, racist aspects of it, but, you know, like... It wouldn't, it wouldn't necessarily have stuck out as a particularly unusually bad specimen of the genre, or even an unusually egregious, in a political sense, specimen of the genre.
If you didn't realize that you were reading something that had a particular place in the history of American fascism.
Right.
I mean, if people hadn't taken this book and used it specifically as an instruction manual for building bombs and killing brown people, you'd just kind of go, well, yeah, that's a really racist book, but it wouldn't necessarily stand out particularly among other books of its kind written on that time.
I mean, it is more overtly racist, but not so much that you would say, oh, that's a clear outlier, right?
Yeah, all of this kind of concept all this and I did provide some links about legal resistance and some of these figures if you want to kind of do some more reading all the switches to say that when you see someone like the Christchurch massacre alleged killer will use alleged here just to.
Uh, cover our journalistic bases, but you know, it's pretty well established this is the guy.
Um, it's very tempting to, you know, what these guys say is like, oh, he's not connected to us.
He's not, you know, one of us.
He's not, he's just some guy who kind of went off and he's just, he's just a lone nut, right?
Um, but if you read his manifesto and you see, um, what he's done and, and, you know, like he's very intimately connected with, uh, With the rest of the movement.
He's one of them.
He's just the one who took matters into his own hands.
And this is very much like the guy that walked into the synagogue having said, screw your optics, I'm going in, isn't it?
Very much so.
That's another example.
Dylann Roof himself, although he kind of predates the alt-right as it is today.
In fact, he's arguably the progenitor.
And before him, of course, Anders Breivik.
And before him, Anders Breivik and, you know, all these, and there are plenty of other, you know, shooters and mass killers, and they almost always start with kind of vicious misogyny.
I mean, there's a piece, again, I put it in the show notes, here from the Washington Post.
So there are, you know, a reporter went to his house and interviewed his mom and kind of talked to some people in his town, and he comes from this little town in Australia.
I mean, It tends a little bit maybe close to the, you know, like, what a sweet boy kind of thing, but I think it mostly avoids that trope.
But I can kind of understand people reading it and kind of feeling differently about that.
I think it is just sort of answering that kind of basic question of like, where did this kid come from?
Where did this guy come from?
He comes from this little town in Australia.
His dad died in around 2010.
He had trouble with women, he apparently never really had a girlfriend, he liked to play video games, and he gets radicalized online.
And we can kind of talk about some of the contents of the manifesto, I think, if you're interested going through that.
The thing about online is that it's enabled this sort of cellular structure you were talking about, the leadership resistance where the cell can be an individual.
That's really taken off because of the online phenomenon, because a cell can self-create in its basement, can't it?
Exactly.
You don't need direct contact from some kind of outside figure.
You can just kind of spew propaganda out there.
And like some percentage of people are just going to absorb it and take it to heart and then go out and do things.
This is what James Alex Fields did.
He became a cell in this leaderless structure in front of his computer.
And he went to the Charlottesville rally and he murdered Heather Heyer in a terrorist attack, acting as a cell in this structure, despite the fact that he didn't really have much connection personally to any of these people.
Exactly.
I mean, despite the fact that, as we've shown before, he's standing two feet away from, you know... He's trying to have a personal... He's trying to kind of be that guy, but... Up to that point he hasn't, but he is still nevertheless a cell of one in that structure.
Fields is a little bit unclear because he didn't plan an attack it seems.
He at the very least planned something in the minutes before the car hit someone, didn't he?
It was definitely an intentional attack, there's no question about that.
That is actually adjudicated and I do not want to lean into that.
but there's no sense that like he spent months kind of planning this and the you know the other thing with fields is that they defend him by going well obviously he didn't plan he didn't spend like months in a basement like meticulously planning to kill that one person or whatever you know it's like no whereas of course but absolutely the defense would be oh well he was just a lone nut and how do we know well he spent months in a basement meticulously plan there's always an answer there's always an answer And the same facts will mean different things, you know, according to convenience.
That's how you know you're listening to utterly cynical bullshit artists.
Another thing that happened this week is the college cheating scandal, where a bunch of rich celebrities and bankers and such were found out they were cheating to get their kids into college because they were wealthy enough to pay for that, but not wealthy enough to literally buy a wing of the school, which is the way you're supposed to bribe universities.
Again, it's a bit like... I mean, I'm not saying that the college cheating thing is fine and we should ignore it, but it's a bit like, you know, going after Tucker based on what he said to Bubba the Love Sponge, you know.
Yeah, there are wider systemic problems here with education, believe it or not.
Let's go after Felicity Huffman instead of, like, Harvard University and the rest of the Ivy College system, you know.
The Ivy League colleges, by the way, have produced far more mass murderers than Than right-wing websites, by the way, not to downplay the horror of right-wing websites.
Yeah, yeah, certainly once you get a hold of the levers of power, I mean, I'm pretty sure that, like, George W. Bush alone has, you know, killed more than, you know, all the right-wing nutjobs combined.
Which is not in any way to downplay any crimes, you know, of the far right, because as we've seen, it's absolutely fucking awful what these people can do.
Absolutely.
And just to kind of put a pin on the, I was bringing up the college cheating scandal, more just to say that the standard thing that, so I was listening to the Daily Show this week, as I listen every week.
I was listening.
And they bring up the story and the standard thing that they always do is go look at all the Jews.
This is the thing that the Jews are doing in order to get one over on white people.
That's always kind of their take on it.
Except in this case, like there aren't really any Jewish people involved in it.
Like, you know, it's mostly, you know.
That's right!
Gentiles.
Yeah.
And so their answer then becomes, well, you know, the you know why it's all like, quote unquote, white people and not Jews.
It's because the Jews have other ways of doing this.
It's like white people have to get to this in order to get the.
That's right.
They're forced to.
The Jews already have, you see.
So, you know, there's no there's no way to win.
They're forced to fiddle the Gentiles are forced to fiddle the admissions process because otherwise the Jews have got it all sewn up.
That's what I mean about these fucking bullshit artists.
They just use, you know, a fact just means whatever you want it to mean, given the circumstances.
Right.
I'm sorry, we're laughing at this, but it's... It's not funny, it really isn't.
It's laughter in the dark, you know, because what else do you do?
Um, so I think, I mean, I guess we should talk about the sort of the Christchurch attack a bit.
The video is available.
I'm not going to link to it.
I'm not going to tell you how to get it.
I've watched it a couple of times.
It'll give you nightmares.
I already have nightmares, so... But I have watched it.
I have not watched it, for fair disclosure.
I feel like a coward, but I can't put myself through it.
I feel like no one should feel the need to watch this.
There's no reason to.
I was advised not to watch it, but I couldn't help myself.
I did watch it.
Just to this man, this little pipsqueak, dipshit, racist asshole of a man.
I'm going to read you a little bit from his manifesto.
This manifesto is 87 pages long.
There are a couple different verses floating around.
Again, I'm not linking to this either.
There is a sense that making these too widely available kind of lends to the radicalization process.
I want to read just a little bit here.
So I'd like to read you this segment.
So at one point he writes these little missives to various groups.
that might be reading this manifesto.
There's one, two conservatives, there's one, two Christians, and he's got kind of things that he has to say to them.
And there's one that's two Antifa/Marxist/Communists.
I do not want to convert you.
I do not want to come to an understanding.
Egalitarians and those that believe in hierarchy will never come to terms.
I don't want you by my side or I don't want to share power.
I want you in my sights.
I want your neck under my boot.
See you on the streets, you anti-white scum.
And that last bit is in all caps.
I'd like to note he didn't actually do that.
I'm certainly not encouraging some racist shithead listening to my voice right now to attack anyone.
But that's about the most violent, like most overtly threatening he gets in this entire manifesto is that little paragraph right there.
He says in many places, you know, I don't have anything against, you know, Muslims as long as they stay in their countries.
He even says he doesn't dislike gay people.
He acts as like as long as gay people are working for their race and are, you know, kind of, you know, like, I don't, you know, that that marks him as like radical left wing by the standards of these guys.
Yeah.
Now, he didn't go to an anti-fascist protest.
Marxist slash communist, right?
That's his message.
Now, he didn't go to an anti-fascist protest.
No.
And start picking people off.
People at that protest might have been armed.
They certainly they might have been armed with like clubs, at least, or, you know, some of them actually do, you know, place organizations like Redneck Revolts, who are technically not kind of under that anti-fascist umbrella, etc.
because the tactics are different.
But, you know, They do kind of go armed they do carry rifles to these events and we can feel how we feel about that But you know he didn't go there No, he went to a place of worship with people who had no expectation that there was going to be any Need to be on the defensive in that moment.
Yeah, this fucking dipshit walks up to this house of worship carrying three gun three large weapons and is greeted by Hello brother.
That man was one of the first people shot and murdered that day.
He was greeted with open arms and he opened fucking fire.
Yeah.
He ambushed peaceful people at prayer.
And they welcomed him.
They welcomed him and he fired until his guns were empty and then picked up more ammo And fired into the bodies as if in a video game.
And when he had killed everyone, he left the mosque and started picking people off on the street.
And then got in his car and drove to another location, taking out people on the streets through his windshield, which didn't work because windshields are actually resistant to that kind of blast.
But he fired out his driver's seat window and killed some people that way.
And he was on his way to another mosque when the video cut out.
When it was actually taken down.
That's all the video we have.
There's a CNN story I have linked.
He got to the second location and he was... Someone did have a weapon.
A credit card processing machine.
A man named Aziz threw a credit card processing machine at him to distract him and grabbed one of the guns that the guy had dropped and tried to shoot at him, but the gun was empty.
But that action probably saved dozens of lives.
41 people were killed at the first location, only 9 at the second location.
And that man is a hero, like a legitimate hero.
There was someone at the first one who did attempt to tackle the guy and take him out, but that didn't work out very well.
He died later in that day.
I'm sorry, I didn't really even mean to talk about the details of the video necessarily, but I think it's important to kind of understand what this man did.
And he's chatting to his live stream audience.
He's critiquing his own performance after he left the first location.
Like he's just sort of chattering on.
You know, oh, I dropped the clip there.
Oh, you got to think about, you know, various, you know, he's kind of talking about like tactical things he could have done wrong.
He walked into a place and killed people who could not fire back.
And what did he do?
The second he ran across someone and a police officer who could fire back, he surrenders immediately.
Yeah.
The last line of this manifesto, and I'm gonna read it here.
here as for me my time has come i cannot guarantee my success all i know is the certainty of my will and the necessity of my cause live or die i know what it is all for you my friends my family my people my culture my race goodbye god bless you all and i will see you in valhalla valhalla is where you go when you die heroically and battle you fucking shithead yeah i've seen i've seen medieval scholars
you know people that study the norse myths furious about this on twitter you know Oh yeah, oh yeah.
This hurts them.
It's so despicable, and it's so cowardly, and it's so stupid, and it's so squalid.
And it's so transparently selfish as well.
All these pompous words about heroism and doing it for my race, etc.
Bullshit!
You did it because you wanted to.
Because it made you feel good.
One of the questions in the Q&A is, do you believe those you attacked were innocent?
He says, there are no innocents in an invasion.
All those who colonize other people's lands share guilt.
There are all kinds of grammatical errors in there.
There's no apostrophe in peoples, but the intent is pretty clear there.
One of the men that died was a man who, I think he was 40 years old, And he moved there because he was doing his PhD.
Uh-huh.
And there's pictures.
I've seen a tweet by one of his relatives.
He was this woman's uncle.
Her beloved uncle.
And she put pictures up of him with her and the kids in his family.
This wasn't an invader.
This was a beloved uncle doing a PhD.
I read this...
I woke up at five o'clock in the morning on Friday because my phone was blowing up and I just kind of couldn't sleep anymore.
And I read this manifesto like in bed before work that day.
And I was kind of tweeting about it.
I tweeted a little bit out about it.
And my overall feeling about it is just how ordinary it sounds for these guys.
He's not even really that edgy in terms of leaning into the memes.
He's got old memes in this, right?
This isn't as aggressive as stuff that I listen to every day from people who are just kind of making racist jokes.
This is really basic stuff in terms of this movement.
There are hundreds of thousands of people in my country and even more across the world who Basically agree with everything that this guy said and the defense I heard on the we talked about James Edwards a few weeks ago I listened to his his show his is a Saturday show.
I listened to that today and his You know his response is like just because some some guy goes out and does this like stupid thing Doesn't mean that like everything he believes is wrong like you can believe that all these things about you know the the
Invading hordes from from outside and that can be perfectly reasonable and you not go out and do it yourself What you mean there is what you want to do is get a government to do your dirty work for you you fucking assholes And that's what all of this shit is I talked about kind of the mainstreamers and vanguardists and I think it's important to differentiate between these two kind of groups of people because the way that we kind of deal with them is different and the way that we understand them is
In terms of, like, opposing them as different, but ultimately they feed on each other and they both push against each other because the vanguardists, the leaderless resistance types, think that all the, you know, kind of alt-right types, the people who are, you know, kind of the e-celebs, think that those guys are cucks because they're not, you know, actively advocating, kind of going out and doing something about the problem directly.
And the more mainstream guys, you know, kind of say that the other ones are really... No, we disavow this kind of stuff because we don't... They'll actually say, no, we don't disavow.
We understand the need for this, but we think that's just not the way to do it.
We think you could be more effective.
I literally heard somebody say today, you can be more effective if you write a pin.
You can take care of a lot more than 49 people.
With a pen than you can with a gun, you know, and so you really should have just stuck it out and done something I listened the other day just a random episode of this thing where this guy is You know one of those more harder-edged types and he's kind of talking about leaderless resistance Likely if you're gonna do it, you might as well, you know Kind of have a life first have some kids make sure they're kind of raised up right and once they get to a certain age You can go off and you know do what you got to do But you know, you at least have some kids first and kind of like contribute to the white race This is how these people feel about this
Over and over and over and over again, and I am done pretending that that's not what's going on here.
Events like this tell us exactly what's going on.
It's disgusting, it's vile, and every single person who has ever, like, starting right now, if you trot out the fucking word anti-white, if you start talking about white genocide or the Great Replacement, this manifesto is called the Great Replacement, if you start pulling this shit to me, I know exactly who you are.
Don't fucking lie to me anymore.
And it is my job to spread that message as widely as I possibly can at this point.
Yep.
Absolutely.
It won't do.
You can't get away with it anymore.
People like Lauren Southern.
Lauren Southern took down her Great Replacement video.
I wonder why.
There's a bit in this manifesto, I tweeted this out, there's a bit in the manifesto where he says, you know, how is diversity our strength?
Tucker Carlson did a whole segment on that!
Directly from- There's a chyron!
How is diversity our strength?
Chris Cantwell played that bit on his show!
I'm gonna make that the, yeah, I'm gonna put that image on the- Yeah, they- On the blog page.
They are all saying the same thing.
They all believe the same thing.
It's just that this guy believes it was his responsibility to go out and do it for himself.
He thought there wasn't time enough.
And what's the goal of this?
The goal of this is to increase tension.
It's to increase the friction between the races.
It's to make Muslim, people who follow Islam, brown people...
little bit more scared on their day-to-day so that they get a little bit more anxious and so more and more this violence is gonna happen and other places some of these people will talk about go out put up fly put up swastika flyers put up swastikas on light light posts near synagogues and you know just just to make people uncomfortable just raise the tension so something's gonna snap and they're all praying for fucking Rahoa.
Rahoa is racial holy war.
They want to burn this thing to the ground over race.
They fantasize of the day.
There's a book published, there's a book series I think that's published called The Day of the Rope.
The Day of the Rope is the day that white people take back what's theirs and put all the non-whites and put all the Jews and all the liberals and hang them from fucking trees.
That's the fantasy.
And if you go on their discords, this is not the sort of thing that's said in the polite company of like Richard Spencer and Mikey, not this is not the sort of thing that they will disavow all of this language.
But you go into like, on the ground, you look at the message boards, and they kind of they frame it as a joke.
But it's not a fucking joke.
It's not a fucking joke.
No, it's, it's always a joke.
It's always a joke until it isn't.
And up till the very last moment.
It's just a joke.
Yeah.
It doesn't stop it not being a joke the very next second they can get away with it.
And that's how they do it.
As you say, they ratchet up the tension one notch.
I only ratchet it up one notch.
I put one sticker up.
Yeah.
Notches on top of notches on top of notches.
And they believe all of this is justified.
Like, this guy This guy, Britton Tarrant, he had it poured into his head that this is happening too fast.
The opening bit.
Segment of this manifesto after a son and rad and a He publishes the rage rage against the dying of the light poem.
Yeah, Dylan Dylan Thomas Dylan Thomas Yeah, he doesn't he just he just potes posted there and then introduction.
It's the birth rates.
It's the birth rates It's the birth rates.
He comes back over and over again that white people are not breeding fast enough that we that white people that we are being outbred by all the mud people and And, you know, he's got statistics.
He links to Wikipedia.
There's a whole section of where he links to, you know, like migrant crime, like various Wikipedia pages of migrant crimes, etc.
And this is, you know, reformat this and put it in a nice language and this could be, you know, like Jared Taylor could say this.
I mean, hell, Tucker Carlson could be saying exactly this.
Or a hundred fucking, well a thousand fucking channels on YouTube.
You know, just go to YouTube, spend enough time there.
It'll start suggesting Stefan Molyneux and Lauren Southern and Black Pigeon Speaks and these disgusting fucking liars that peddle this conspiracy theory about the Great Replacement, the White Replacement, the White Genocide.
That's how it works.
It's just, you know, you change one word at a time.
Yeah.
And you end up with, you know, I don't want to keep going this dark.
I feel like we're just kind of angry at this point.
I'm sort of inarticulate.
I've lost my words.
I've lost my words.
I think this is the one.
I think people will only listen to this one.
It's pretty raw, I think, for both of us at this point.
I have not had the time to kind of emotionally distance myself from some of this.
And I have been very, very angry all weekend.
And I want to say, by the way, that I really have distaste for people that sort of, because there are people in the world who get off on stuff like this.
They're sort of attracted to tragedy.
And and horror like this and they you know they they kind of get off on talking about it and talking about how upset they are about it and i i just hate that that just makes me sick so i don't i want to i want to frame this and you know i i i am upset i am personally upset i want to frame this in terms of i want to tell people that i am very aware of the fact that i was you know i was i've i have been like likely grazed by this this this is how to effectively no effect on my life whatsoever except.
That it upset me on an emotional level.
I don't claim to be the victim here.
Obviously, the real victim here is Chelsea Clinton, as we know.
And Candace Owens, obviously, as well.
Oh God, we have to talk about that.
What's his name?
Anning.
The guy who got hit in the head with an egg.
Hit with an egg, yeah.
I think we're both, I think we're on the same page on that.
We are not trying to make this about us and our anger about it.
This is so not about me, you know, and I know that.
On the subject of some of the, I don't want to talk about it, but on the subject of some of this nonsense about Candace Owens, Bob Evans had his really good article at Bellingcat.
Yes, very much so, yeah.
Yeah, he wrote that overnight, basically, when I was asleep, and it's a really, really wonderful piece, and it says a lot of stuff that I would say about this.
I mean, he kind of, you know, hit the high points of a lot of, you know, I highly, highly recommended that piece, so definitely go check that out.
He's also just done a three-part series of Behind the Bastards on George Lincoln Rockwell, who is kind of like the inspiration.
Yes, and I would definitely recommend all that.
That is a great three-part episode and it goes over a lot of the material that I was going to sort of cover in a slightly more deep dive kind of way with the mainstream or Vanguardist stuff is kind of in that.
Yeah.
So that's another really good, really funny source for, if you do want to kind of gather that through podcast form, that is a very good source for that.
He doesn't go into Louis Beam, but he covers a lot of the rest of it.
So highly recommended.
Yeah.
Do you want to talk a little bit before we finish about the fact that he was, the shooter, I mean, was inspired partly by Balkan nationalism?
Yeah, sure.
I mean, one of the issues I run into is that I kind of laser focus on the U.S.
just because that's all I have the time to cover in detail.
And there are kind of other people kind of covering kind of more of the details on that.
But I did put a piece, I did read something from Balkan Insight.
A couple of the songs that he plays in the video have connection.
One of them was part of the Bosnian War during that time period.
There's this meme that floats around called Remove Kebab and that's Christians removing Arab people from their white homelands during that wonderful conflict.
Um, and there was a song that was popular, that was popularized during that kind of time period, and then it becomes the source for this removed kebab meme, which, I, I, you know, I'll admit, you know, one of the things where I didn't know where that came from until, uh, this week, because, um, I just, I knew they said removed kebab, but I, I wasn't aware, I never, like, Googled the history of that, so, um, Yay, I learned something this week.
But there is a piece where it does talk about some of the background of that from a Balkan news source that seems pretty accurate.
I just can't speak to that personally in terms of how that all connects together.
But he does mention in his manifesto a couple of times the sort of the Turkish invaders of Eastern Europe and a lot of these guys do have a real hard-on for Eastern Europe because they see that as the sort of unsullied white homeland in a way that's sort of very traditionalist you know kind of thing that after throwing off the yoke of communism that they're relatively undued quote-unquote and so they have a
kind of a stronger sense of family and nationalism and identity and a lot of those countries are seeing autocratic regimes pop up and they're big fans of that.
Another thing about the New Zealand gunman is I've seen him described as a as an eco-terrorist, a right-wing environmentalist or something.
I mean I I mean, I had idiots sort of crawling out the woodwork almost immediately telling me he was a left winger.
Oh, you've been foolish enough to buy the propaganda that he's a right winger.
No, no, he's a left winger.
Because he's into eco stuff.
He's an eco-fascist, and this is, uh, you know, sometimes they call it the green pill, um, in various, uh, forms, uh, you know, because there are all these different pills.
Jesus, get some new fucking material, you boring fuckers.
They call it the green pill, right?
But there's a show called The Green Pilled Perspective, and it's absolutely horrifying.
He's one of those straight-up Hitler, legalist, resistance types, and I think he's like 17 years old, so woohoo.
Hopefully he'll grow up a bit.
Doesn't sound like it.
I'm sorry, I'm a curable optimist.
No, you do see this occasionally because usually what they kind of go for is, well look at our, again, nice white suburbs and then these kind of brown people, the mud people, come in and they bring like trash and they don't clean up their yards and they're kind of ugly and you know like you know, only white people really care about the environment.
So we just have to cleanse the land of brown people, and that way we can have prettier trees and such.
And that's kind of where the eco-fascism, that's sort of the basic idea behind it.
You kind of hear this in various senses.
There are people who kind of are overt, like, no, I am actually interested in being ecologically sound, and this is the way I plan on doing it.
But it kind of becomes like a rhetorical tool in the toolbox across a wider movement.
So there are people who kind of actively call themselves ecofascists, and then there are others who just kind of like take that as part of the argumentation.
But yeah, no, this is this is a, you know, well, look at look at the countries that are like destroying the environment the most right now.
And it's like India and China.
And so like, you know, those people just shouldn't be over here if you want.
If you want a cleaner environment, we should be more like, you know, the United States and Europe and not, you know, we're not, you know, like we need to stop them from reading so much, you know, that that's how we protect the environment.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And this is something I mean, these these people will always appropriate anything they can use.
You know, it's been fascism has been called a scavenger ideology.
You'll find loads of fascists to call themselves.
Well, I mean, you know, national socialists.
Or revolutionaries or you know that you have you have a national bolshevism in russia which is kind of like fascism but cloaked in some of the some of the ideas of the of the bolsheviks and stuff like that you will find this stuff.
It disorient some people people like what i don't understand are they right wing or left wing or what you know they're all right wing the fascists.
Because at the bottom of it all is racial supremacy, white supremacy.
That's the tell.
That is the tell.
Whatever the surface decoration, whatever the garnish on top, if it comes down to white supremacy, gentile supremacy, it's all the same thing.
It's fascism.
Yeah.
Well, and I mean, you know, they even kind of stopped arguing politics with each other to a certain degree, because, you know, you hear this a lot, like, you know, we can deal with that when we have our ethnostate.
Let's make it all white people and then we can deal with the other problems later.
Let's not argue about economics.
Let's not argue about healthcare.
Make it all white people and then we can figure it out.
Like, you know.
Yeah.
One other – I feel like we should wind down, but there is something I do want to kind of cover briefly before we kind of wrap up here.
And that is that this manifesto, if you read it, it's kind of internally self-contradictory if you kind of read it on its face.
It's filled with… No, really?
Well, it's filled with, like, memes that you have to sort of be in on the joke in order to get, right?
Like, at one point he puts in a bit of copypasta of, you know, this old thing from 2010 that's like, you know, this kind of hard-ass marine kind of thing.
He puts in all kinds of jokes where he, like, answers questions twice and, you know, like I've, you know, there's one where he's asked, like, am I a racist?
And... Sorry, let me find it here.
It's very like that, isn't it?
It's very in.
It's very, you know, in the sense of being in this incredible sort of envelope of in jokes on the Chan boards.
Right, yeah, no, I mean, and the whole thing is like, you know, the things that are written on his guns are all like memes within this chan board, you know, it's all like dates that have significance to them, and it's all like terms that have significance to them, and the whole manifesto is filled with that, you know.
So for instance, you know, in one of the sort of – so the manifesto takes the form of like, one half of it is this kind of broad Q&A where he answers kind of the questions that he expects people are going to ask of him.
And then the other half is sort of the more like kind of like manifesto part of the manifesto where he talks about his… You were a bigot, racist, xenophobe, islamophobe, nazi, fascist.
and trying to get people to follow his lead essentially.
But one of them is the question, quote unquote, is you are a bigot, comma racist, comma xenophobe, comma Islamophobe, comma Nazi, comma fascist.
There are no spaces there.
It's just he has a problem with putting commas in that space.
So anyway, that's the question.
And then A, compliments will get you nowhere.
B, that isn't a question.
And then C, and then he does the Navy SEAL copypasta bit.
And so, like, if you read that and you don't kind of understand... I mean, I guess that one's fairly clear, you know, but, like, it's meant to be kind of deliberately disorienting.
Because, you know, compliments will get you nowhere is, you know, agree and amplify.
Yes, I'm a racist.
Thank you.
that they're kind of taught to use is like, oh, you called me a racist.
Yes, I'm a racist.
Thank you.
And then, I'm so racist, I believe we should just kill everybody.
Agree and amplify, which is to sort of like put your questioner off their back foot, right?
And then B, that isn't a question.
That's, that's, Stephen Molyneux's not an argument, right?
Not an argument, yeah.
And then C is like... Stephen, I just want to boast about this.
Stephen Molyneux once tried that on me and I replied, well spotted.
It was an insult.
Which, what did you do?
You agreed on Amplified.
So, you know, it's, it's, you know, they're not bad.
Like, if you're just trying to, like, snark at somebody in 280 characters, like, it's, it's not unreasonable.
But, uh, and then, of course, C is, like, he's spewing a meme at you.
And if you don't recognize the meme, you might spend a lot of time trying to figure out, what does he mean?
Navy SEALs and Al-Qaeda, etc.
It's like, no, this is a thing.
That it's just meant to make journalists and make people who are not in this community like run themselves ragged trying to figure it out while they all kind of stand off in the corner and laugh at it.
Like that's the place.
Yeah, this is playground argumentation.
Exactly, exactly.
Um, there's a ton of that in this, um, you know, in this manifesto.
Uh, I feel like, uh, the Robert Evans piece kind of covers a lot of the, the, you know, covers the big ones anyway.
Yeah, that's true.
Um, there's some of them that I'm not quite clear on, um, that I'm trying to kind of get clarification on.
Uh, we might come back to it and kind of, like, highlight some of them with time because I have read this a couple of times.
So, I'm sorry, go ahead.
I didn't fucking understand word one of that, to be honest with you.
I mean, the article was great because I understood what I wasn't understanding, if you follow me.
Right, right.
You mean the Bellingcat post?
Yeah.
I'm not criticizing the article.
It's a great article.
It makes it perfectly clear what's going on.
It's just in terms of the details of what he's repeating, the author, I mean, is repeating from the manifesto.
I'm just like, what?
What the fuck?
There's a ton, I mean, and the thing is, like, I have just, like, poured enough of this into my brain that I can, like, oh, I know what you did there.
It's clear, like, once you listen to it.
Turns out you do speak German.
It turns out I speak racist.
That's really not the, uh, but, you know, This is the goal.
I speak their language so I can try to kind of elucidate some of it.
But I feel like maybe we'll kind of come back to it and we can kind of cover it in a future time if kind of this, depending on how widely some of the misconceptions get spewed.
Because I feel like even in the last couple of days I've seen some other places where people are kind of like pushing back on some of this.
If you are a journalist listening to this and you have questions, please DM me.
I am happy to answer whatever questions you have.
But I feel like, you know, I don't want to have to pick through this with a fine-tooth comb this late in the episode.
Okay, so I think we'll draw it to a close for this episode.
Daniel, do you know what our topic, I mean, you know, assuming there aren't any more news stories we need to cover, do you know what our topic will be next episode?
Assuming no one plants a bomb or something before next Sunday, yeah.
Which is a depressingly big assumption, isn't it?
I will say, I mean, just one more little bit here, I'm expecting this summer to be lousy with this stuff.
I think we're going to see a spike in this, for reasons that we will get into next week, I think.
Because I think there's some really interesting stuff happening, and I think it is now time to talk about Donald Trump and the alt-right.
So that's what we're going to do next week, is talk about how the alt-right has viewed and currently views Donald J. Trump.
Yippee!
Okay, so there's one to look forward to.
Spoiler alert!
Not well these days.
No, no, that's right.
Yeah, they're a bit disappointed, I understand.
They are quite disappointed.
It's kind of glorious to see.
But we will talk about that next week.
Hopefully that will be a lighter episode than describing the details of a massacre.
Yeah, we might actually even have a couple of sincere laughs next week.
At their expense, which would be nice.
Yes.
And so yeah, tune in for that.
Again, it's too depressing an episode to do any self-promotion beyond saying check out our Twitters and you will find links to everything we do on them.
I'm at underscore Jack underscore Graham underscore and Daniel is at Daniel E Harper.
And thanks for listening.
Thank you very much.
All solidarity to the victims and to all those fighting for the victims.
