Knowledge Fight Interactive Search Tool

All Episodes

Previous Next

Feb. 13, 2019 - I Don't Speak German

01:30:42

I Don't Speak German, Episode 6: Christopher Cantwell, Part 2

Part 2 of Daniel and Jack's conversation about the 'Crying Nazi'.

Large

Audio Only |

Scroll

Time	Text
	Okay, welcome to I Don't Speak German, episode six, and it's part two of the Christopher Cantwell, The Crying Nazi Conversation.
	Daniel, welcome back.
	I understand there have been developments since we last spoke about Mr. Cantwell.
	Indeed.
	Cantwell, if you know anything about him, and why would you, ultimately, he does like to make news basically by provoking people and posting violent things on the internet.
	And one of these things is he has decided to threaten a journalist, or, well, you can decide if this is a, you know, a straightforward threat.
	This is a journalist.
	I'm not going to name this person because I don't want to kind of create any conflict with the journalist in question to kind of push more people in their direction.
	Although, once I kind of read some of this, it is kind of Google-able, but I just don't want to say their name.
	Um, but this journalist has been covering Cantwell for a little while.
	Um, basically writing, you know, very, uh, solid factual pieces.
	Um, they have, uh, they do know Cantwell, uh, fairly well.
	They do listen to the podcast, which many people who do follow Cantwell and these other figures do not.
	Um, so there was previously this video game called Angry Goy, and it was, so Goy is the, um, is the word, uh, is the, sort of the, uh, the Jewish word for non-Jew.
	Uh, and so these guys often, um, appropriate this term to describe themselves as, you know, like the Goyim, the white people, um, the non-Jewish people, in order to differentiate themselves from, um, from the Jewish people.
	And, uh, they've kind of taken this as a badge of honor.
	So Angry Goy is essentially a, um, It's a violent kind of video game where you go around and you kill people that you don't like.
	So basically homosexuals and Jews and leftists and communists, etc, etc.
	And you play as a number of different figures within the alt-right movement.
	And then there was a sequel game called Angry Goy 2.
	Catwell was a character in the game.
	He was a playable character, and his special weapon was a can of pepper spray, which obviously a lot of what his legal troubles after a unit derived from his use of pepper spray against a number of protesters.
	Several, at least two of which suit him over the practice.
	So, he was a playable character.
	He thought it was great that he's a character in the game.
	He was asked if he would host the files, and he did.
	This journalist basically wrote a factual article about this game, describing it, and he starts kind of posting threats and such.
	There really wasn't a kind of back and forth until a little bit later on.
	Kind of randomly, he posts a week ago today, as I'm kind of looking at his Gab profile, I'm going to read this Gab post.
	It's essentially, Gab is the Twitter for Nazis, if you don't remember.
	But he posts, if someone shot this journalist in the face and then stuffed their worthless corpse behind a dumpster and spent the afternoon shopping and dining out, waiting for the body to begin to stink more than usual before coming back and raping it, no one who mattered would give a shit.
	Nice.
	Cantwell does this deliberately.
	He admits this on his show.
	He does this to draw attention to himself as a way of getting people to write about him.
	And then he this is not the first journalist he has he has threatened.
	He even posted audio of himself all but threatening another journalist specifically a journalist who said, you know, just just back off just a little bit, please.
	He he.
	He is known for posting audio of calls.
	He does record all of his calls, and he does post the audio where he thinks it makes him look good.
	His belief is that since I fear for my life from these leftists and communists who are coming after me, all the Antifa who don't like what I say, I think that the journalists who cover me should fear equally as much.
	And so that's his perspective on these things.
	He also was on another Gab post from this guy, Eric Stryker, who we will be covering in the not too distant future, I believe.
	He's kind of associated with the Daily Stormer and the Right Stuff Network, which is the Daily Show guys.
	And he's kind of involved with some of the other YouTube stuff as well.
	He has his fingers in a lot of pies, which is interesting because he's one of the only figures who's still able to kind of Maintain friendships across the some of these divides, but um he posted about there was a Rally on Super Bowl Sunday at Stone Mountain, Georgia.
	This is the birthplace of the Ku Klux Klan.
	There is a giant boss relief Sculpture cartons inside of a mountain of Robert E Lee and a couple of other generals and he is a He had posted a video of anti-fascists who had come, some with weapons, some without, some with masks.
	In cattle, let's just say, they do have anti-mask laws in Georgia, and so there was some violation of the local codes there from people wearing masks, and they were actually not arrested, surprisingly.
	The cops were forced to remove their masks.
	Striker decided this looked like a really, really terrifying thing.
	He posts, and here we have a parade by armed communist paramilitary interlopers looking to intimidate locals calling these Trump voters Klansmen in the commercial district of their town on a Saturday afternoon.
	How is this even permitted?
	So that's Striker's post.
	Cantwell, down in the comments here, and I do have a link to this in the show notes so you can look at it, He posts a photo of himself with the photoshopped bowl, the Dylan Roof bowl cut, and, you know, scratched in, in this kind of red handwriting, lettering font, the word soon.
	And he did this intentionally just to kind of fuck with people.
	It's a threat, an implied threat to anti-fascists and other anti-racist organizers who would attempt to prevent the white ethnostate from being formed, apparently.
	Yeah, that's what Cantwell's been up to in the last couple of weeks.
	He also had his family-friendly show, The Outlaw Conservative, which we'll get to here shortly.
	He's trying to produce this sort of family-friendly version of his racist radio show.
	With the attempt that he could actually sell memberships to it and kind of use regular credit card processing alongside that.
	Well, everybody who has been following him knew exactly what he was doing.
	He admitted openly what he was doing and he got banned off of iTunes and I believe Spotify pretty immediately.
	And he is none too happy about getting kicked off of platforms when he produces the exact same content with the racism slightly more veiled.
	So yeah, that's this week in Chris Cantwell, if you've been following him online.
	That's what he's done this week.
	And it's always like this, isn't it, really, with him?
	It is.
	I mean, he kind of dips in and out of the news.
	I mean, he usually it's it's kind of more when he's when he's trying to kind of draw people to his new projects or he's trying to kind of draw some attention to himself, some income to himself.
	He does kind of like pop up and do these kind of things.
	But yeah, no, he's he's in fine form lately trying to draw more listenership to his to his new show.
	And I'm very happy it's getting kicked off of platforms.
	Another another just detail that showed up on his gab.
	I usually don't look at his gab all that often but I I did you know just kind of go through and just look at what this guy's up to lately and Apparently he's now trying to get into selling cryptocurrency to his audience so after so this is a good way to get into this so most people again know Chris Cantwell mostly from the crying Nazi video and the
	Legal issues he had around the events of Unite the Right and the Vice documentary that followed him.
	The beauty of the aftermath of that, I mean, one of the things that happens is he goes to jail for a while.
	He spends 107 days in jail, about a month of it in solitary confinement.
	He ends up being housed with some of the other people who got arrested for events that kind of came out of that rally, and he has actually, like, posted phone calls that he has
	Get gotten permission from these guys so they call him from jail and then he post the audio on his podcast feed so you can kind of listen to him chatting with his former cellmates many of these people were the ones who have since been convicted of assaulting DeAndre Harris which we discussed in the in what in the aftermath to unite the right episode.
	Several of those guys are sentenced to multi-year prison terms and he is considering them kind of the POWs behind the wire and he wants to kind of rescue them.
	That sort of thing.
	And he posts their audio as a way of getting their message out there.
	There's also another guy named Will Planer, who was involved in the one of the battles at Berkeley, which we discussed in the first Unite the Right episode.
	And he is he actually his case.
	He recently went to trial.
	He had a hung jury and that's kind of something that happened over the weekend.
	So again, kind of breaking news there.
	But Cantwell will receive calls from these guys and then post them up on his website as a way of trying to maintain a connection for these guys with the larger community.
	He also sounds very different during these calls.
	When you listen to his show, he's kind of putting on this character of himself.
	He makes himself into this larger-than-life, kind of right-wing shock jock, right-wing superhero kind of guy on the show.
	When he's just kind of chatting with these guys, it's more talking about things like jail food and how bad it is, and just kind of like giggling about their kind of shared experience.
	Which I do find interesting that this is that he is kind of allowing us a peek behind the curtain into his more kind of who he is when he's not on the radio.
	The other thing to kind of keep in mind is that Cantwell is very much someone who...
	Lives forth his show like he seems to use the show as therapy to a large degree Partly because he is kind of communicating with the callers.
	He's getting You know because he does take live phone calls on the show But even in his like paywall content for a while he would and then I never paid for his paywall content So it has been shared online Uh, to where, you know, you can, I've just been able to listen to it and some of it he'll, he's kind of like posted like a bonus paywall thing.
	Uh, for a while he was actually carrying around a digital recorder and just like talking into it.
	Um, just sort of thoughts of the day sort of stuff.
	Um, in ways that were not, uh, designed for the show, but were just sort of, you know, it's like note to self.
	What if the Jews are really behind this thing?
	And you talked about his family a bit.
	But the really kind of disturbing one, this one came out – in the last episode we discussed the cricket slick, his ex-girlfriend who aborted his baby, quote-unquote.
	I have since learned, I kind of looked through some of the archives, and I have since learned that apparently there are five other women who have aborted babies that were his.
	One of which was his request because they were both teenagers at the time or whatever.
	But the really interesting thing is that I ran across some audio.
	It's a 50-minute clip that is taken from what I'm told is something like a 12-hour total audio stream that is essentially a very long methamphetamine binge that Cantwell narrates completely through.
	And, you know, I will admit that I have a kind of a general strategy, a general kind of way of treating this stuff that There is a no, that if a white nationalist is speaking, they are lying, and they are lying in a way that is meant to make themselves look good.
	I thought I had a pretty good handle on Cantwell's previous drug use.
	I figured there was some exaggeration here and there, and he was kind of trying to make himself look better.
	But I really, I was blown away by the...
	By some of the details that I ran across in this, um, meth binge.
	Uh, first of all, I wasn't aware that he had really ever, uh, been addicted to, to meth.
	He, uh, since then I've kind of found another piece of audio where he claims, oh no, I was only really, uh, strung out on meth for a couple of weeks and, you know, everything was fine.
	You listen to this audio, he does not sound like a man who has, um, only done meth a couple of times.
	Um, In the aftermath of this breakup because this does seem to be in the aftermath of the at least sort of in the interim of the cricket slick breakup.
	This is someone who is.
	Strung out talking about, you know, seeing the dirt on his floor and thinking they're meth.
	This is someone who's talking about, like, telling stories about, like, staying up all night and injecting himself hundreds of times in his foot and in his arms with the meth needle in hopes of getting just that little bit higher.
	This is someone who describes the process of Apparently injecting his own asshole with methamphetamine in a process called plugging, I believe.
	I can't say that I'm an expert on methamphetamine use, but it sounds like he knows what he's talking about.
	He also describes the process of how, as a young man, he gave his younger brother pot when he was 13 years old.
	And that younger brother has since gone on to be a really violent gang member in drugs.
	So, and is currently serving some, you know, extended sentence in prison.
	And another and again another piece of audio can't well claims this is not that he's kind of playing a character that he's putting things that are deliberately not true as a way of kind of kind of putting it out there and kind of kind of being larger than life.
	I believe that some of it might be overstated but at the same time I don't I don't I think he's I think he's lying about lying basically I think he sounds exactly like what.
	You think this is he sounds like a completely strung out drug user who absolutely hates himself who is he at one point he breaks a wine glass and says, yeah, wouldn't that be a wouldn't that be a perfect fitting metaphor for my life like a like my in my obituary is broken wine glass on the on the floor of this shitty apartment.
	At one point he doesn't trust his knees he can't he's on enough drugs that he doesn't think he can walk it so he pisses in a In a whiskey bottle probably a very low-cost whiskey bottle if we're gonna go by our podcast Our in joke here, but um you know I'm imagining.
	It's probably wasn't wasn't the best kind of whiskey, but yeah, no he's a Struck out drug addict, and I'm in no way going to Say he's a bad person for that, honestly.
	I have enormous sympathy for anyone who is hooked on drugs, and it sounds like he has this very extensive drug history.
	I mean, he compares doing meth with doing heroin with doing cocaine.
	He's doing cocaine that's been laced with heroin and amphetamines.
	He has an extensive drug history.
	He is very well acquainted with this stuff.
	He is clearly he has an addiction and this addictive personality.
	He says the hardest thing to quit is alcohol because alcohol is everywhere.
	You know, if you want to stay away from from meth, you just don't go buy it.
	But, you know, you find alcohol at the fucking grocery store.
	And he has a severe problem with that.
	And I am hugely sympathetic to that.
	I am not going to make fun of him for previously or currently, I mean I imagine it's previously, having been heavily involved in methamphetamine.
	That said, This is a deeply discomforting material to listen to.
	I did listen to it a couple of times just to kind of get the gist of it.
	And it does speak to something that I think is really important in terms of understanding these guys more generally, is that a lot of them do have these kinds of really difficult things in their past.
	Cantwell is not the only figure we're going to talk about on this podcast who has admitted to having issues with drugs, in particular opiates.
	A lot of these guys do have kind of problem drinking.
	They've had problems with women.
	They've had problems with their parents They have you know economic difficulties But in particular the drug thing seems to be really really common that it seems to be that a lot of these guys have had at least some exposure to this to this drug life and they embrace this right-wing politics in part as a way of Getting away from that as a way of making themselves better people as a way of kind of know you need to stop doing math.
	You need to get to the gym.
	You need to, you know, work out and you need to enforce this on yourself as a way of getting away from your drug addiction and, you know, kind of beating it that way.
	And then they believe that because these things are so terrible that you need, that society at large needs a, you know, basically a full-on police state in order to kind of keep it away from people, especially if you believe that this stuff is being introduced into population by, you know, people with three parentheses around their names.
	And in particular, the sort of the opiate crisis in the United States, particularly in Appalachia, We have very well-sourced, very solid reporting.
	From various sources that this was this was, you know, the opiate crisis was deliberately engendered by Purdue Pharma as a way of drawing more income into, I mean, it's capitalist.
	It's a capitalist market there.
	They they sell the drug and then they sell the cure and that the the family that was in charge of Purdue Pharma, the Sackler family, is, of course, Jewish.
	And this It creates a huge data point that they use over and over again with respect to the white genocide theory that the Jews are coming in and taking these opiates into these poor white families, into these majority white areas, and that they're devastating these communities for their own profit, and they just add on the, and then they promote race mixing and degeneracy and all that other stuff on top of that.
	A whole lot of these guys do have this sort of personal relationship with this drug culture and Cantwell is definitely one.
	And it's just, it strikes me as one of those situations where the material conditions really are creating this.
	ideological superstructure in a lot of ways that the that these uh terrible lifestyles of this kind of terrible addiction and that the the need to um prevent it from happening to anyone else leads them into um through this sort of guise of this kind of twisted uh race realist ideology and pseudoscience leads them to really really extreme conclusions but also you know you listen to the audio of chris can't well you know stabbing himself in the asshole with methamphetamine and um
	And I do have sympathy for how we got there, right?
	I mean, and I don't want to... I in no way want to take him sympathetically above his victims, because he does have victims, both in the immediate sense of people he has actually assaulted, and just in terms of continuing to do his show and continuing to push his ideas.
	He has victims around the world, obviously, but it's hard to not have some sympathy for that.
	No, that's I mean, that's so interesting.
	I mean, you know, anti-Semitism, it's been said to death, but it's still true.
	It really is the anti-capitalism of fools.
	And, you know, maybe to adapt that slightly, in this case, the anti-capitalism of the alienated.
	You know, because it sounds like heavy duty alienation.
	I mean, that's what I mean.
	You know, I don't want to derail it, but that's what that's what the opioid crisis and drugs generally it's about.
	It's about I once heard addiction defined as people not wanting to be present for their own lives, which I think is an excellent description.
	And it's yeah, it's because people's lives are fucking horrible in a lot of these places.
	And they've been made that way by Why, you know, capitalism, particularly over the last 20, 30, 40 years, capitalism unleashed, you know, neoliberalism, and it's left communities desolated, and it's left people under all these pressures that they don't know how to deal with.
	And because there's so little political education and so little genuine political knowledge to be had from anywhere, really, people are so disoriented.
	And again, none of this is an excuse.
	But it is the context for it.
	And it's a causal relation as opposed to trying to be an excuse.
	Yeah.
	You know, yeah, exactly.
	We're trying to connect this to, you know, you know, Chris Cantwell chooses to be this evil.
	I'm not disputing that.
	But he is responsible for what he does.
	Yeah.
	He is – the people that he is affecting, the kind of broad strokes of the way that the political winds move is not just because he's an engaging speaker, because he's not that engaging a speaker.
	He's speaking to some material condition, and he's giving them an easy answer.
	And in some ways, he has been sort of fed an easy answer by the kind of people who came before him.
	Um, it's, it's a, it's a really tough situation.
	It's a really, you know, yeah.
	Not to step outside of our focus or to derail.
	I mean, what you were saying about them kind of using this ideology is almost, you know, an excuse to get themselves down to the gym and stuff like that.
	You know, whatever, whatever we think about gym culture.
	Um, it, it, it reminds me of, uh, you know, the way Jordan Peterson pedals his reactionary politics in the form of a self-help, self-help book.
	And positions himself as kind of this surrogate father to this generation of young men that are just rootless.
	It's the same sort of thing, isn't it?
	They talk about their alienation.
	They talk about being basically treated as consumer units by the neoliberal consensus.
	And they talk about, you know, this country shouldn't be a shopping mall.
	And I agree with all that!
	I'm with you guys, right?
	This isn't necessarily – This is why it's tragic if we could – But because the Democratic Party – I mean just to be slightly simplistic about it, the Democratic Party and the liberals in the United States have completely failed to meet those material needs, have completely failed to do anything the Democratic Party and the liberals in the United States have completely failed to meet those
	And then they – instead they just kind of feed this sort of like a slightly modified version of capitalism that has austerity politics connected to it.
	And the fact that – and this isn't even like – I'm not even blaming this on the American left necessarily.
	I mean because – The American left has had so little impact because they just can't get access to the media to get any kind of message out there.
	This is another aspect of neoliberalism.
	It's the fact that the left has been systematically disempowered and destroyed from labor unions right the way across to academia.
	Despite the myth about academia being overrun with left-wingers, the opposite is the case.
	You know, maybe in the humanities departments, yeah, you have left professors talking about Wuthering Heights, you know, but apart from that, there is no, there just is no left discourse now, essentially, except on the fringes.
	It's getting slightly better, but it's just not there.
	So the vacuum is being filled by the vacuum that is just otherwise this suffocating mainstream range from, you know, ranging from totally unleashed capitalism Two are we you know maybe we can have some rules every now and again and lots of nice rhetoric about how everybody's equal the only other thing that's available to these disaffected people is.
	Is extreme right wing politics right and and i can't also again you can pay attention to him long enough he is a bona fide.
	He is previously been heavily involved libertarian politics he did run for congress from from new hampshire.
	A few years ago, as a Libertarian candidate, he got very much nowhere at that point.
	But certainly today, he is a very partisan Republican, because he believes that the Democrats are literally out to destroy the country.
	He says this over and over and over again, through economic and social policies, essentially that taxing wealth is going to mess up the incentives that make people productive, and that, you know, just lines that come straight off of Fox News.
	And then he's put this like far libertarian and cap stuff on that and then he's put this like fascist race realist stuff on top of that again and and so this.
	Incredibly cynical project started by amongst others murray rothbard and lou rockwell and people like that.
	Get the inherently unpopular message about how you know markets complete should be completely unleashed they should be no breaks on capital etc etc this be no breaks on the power of big corporations and the rich and stuff.
	I mean they don't say that but that's what it amounts to.
	They're completely insidious agenda to get that message popularized to a public that's just unresponsive to it, because of course they are, by linking it to reactionary politics, to racism and sexism and stuff like that, to link libertarianism to paleo-conservatism.
	That cynical, disgusting project, at least with these people, it's worked, hasn't it?
	It very much has and I would I would put not just the I mean I agree with everything you just said but the presence of Fox News the presence of this right wing television network that's in every you know airport and every
	Yeah, every gym and every bar and everything in the United States that presents itself as the sort of like reasonable middle between You know like we're fair and balanced I don't say that much anymore But you know like it's certainly back in the you know kind of the the the late days of the Clinton administration You know Fox News was founded in 1996 and then kind of going into the the the first the W. Bush years there's a ton of
	Yeah, treating themselves as a sort of reasonable center that you go as opposed to, you know, that that far lefty outlet CNN.
	And what's happened is that over the course of the last, you know, 20, 22 years, a couple of decades, what you've what you've run into is that, you know, we have a whole generation of people who just sort of grew up with Fox News and then like drifted further right.
	So the Fox News then kind of begets Breitbart in the in the kind of Early days of the early 2010s, which just goes kind of further as Steve Bannon takes over from after Andrew Breitbart's death.
	And then people have to go even further than that in order to be the kind of the reactionary types.
	And, you know, this this kind of rebirth of kind of open fascism is in many ways it's it's even though Fox News is not pushing a kind of openly race realist agenda.
	Mostly we'll get to that.
	Gets pretty close sometimes it's pretty close and now it's really much more that kind of new conservative you know markets are great can emit romney s thing and then it's these kind of younger kids rebel from that they're not.
	They don't have a voice on the left that is reaching them and able to kind of speak to them about, uh, again, the kind of real, you know, the real people who are fucking over are your bosses and they're not, you know, the social workers who are trying to make sure that like impoverished people, uh, from, from south of the border, uh, you know, are able to eat today.
	Like it's, it's not people that are causing your problem.
	It's, it's, it's billionaires.
	It's, it's Walmart.
	It's McDonald's.
	Like, That's been completely purged because that's you know if you that's how you do it you I mean you again that slightly you know the term I have an issue with the Overton window but let's use it for now it's been pushed so far that way that Fox News composes the center you know so of course anything that's that actually gets at the fact that yeah
	Your life is bleak and meaningless and commodified and you know american culture is this so you know and global capitalist culture as well as the sort of howling wasteland of soulless commodification and austerity and you know.
	Yeah, that's the fault of the people that fuck you over every day of your life, you know.
	It's the fault of the capitalists and the corporations.
	That which, you know, a hundred years ago, that was common sense to millions of workers all across the globe.
	It was just understood by millions upon millions of ordinary people.
	You know, I'm not just talking about Bolsheviks here, like ordinary working class guys in Britain, Labour voters, they understood that.
	That it was their boss screwing them over.
	But over the course of that time, particularly from the 70s onwards, it's just been relentlessly purged from culture to the point where it sounds like insane lunacy.
	And of course, part of that is that you spin this narrative, you purge the left, the left ideas, partly by spinning this narrative about how culture is controlled by the left, which is just bonkers.
	Because a handful of, you know, genuinely left-wing professors have, you know, have speaking positions somewhere, you know, you point to like the five most left wing people with more than a $50,000 a year salary and say, yeah, they're the problem and not, you know, the founders of GM.
	Well, you know, a lot of a lot of professors identify as liberal or left of center.
	The numbers who identify as socialist or communist or radical or whatever are minuscule.
	And yet in the humanities you will get to read, you know, you will read Marxist criticism of Wuthering Heights or whatever.
	You don't get Marx.
	Fuck, in a lot of economics departments you don't even get Keynes taught.
	You know, it's just not there.
	When you're talking about, you know, and a lot of these, as you have, as you have documented quite well, and a lot of these economics departments and business departments, these are actually funded by, you know, billionaire Koch Brothers, you know, endowments.
	Koch Brothers, Mercer's and all that lot, yeah.
	Yeah, no.
	And it's, you know, it's funny.
	But of course, all those people are Jews, right?
	And so, you know, if you identify this problem, and if you go, you know, and look, I'm not buying into the Jewish conspiracy to control the world thing, but, you know, it sounds like real data to these people, right?
	That like, oh my God, look at all these Jewish names that are doing this to me.
	And it's like, well, yeah, you know, Jewish people have historically been involved in the financial sector for a, like, long, you know, for a thousand year, There's good scholarship by historians documenting the context for some of this stuff.
	We know why this happened.
	It's not the elders of Zion.
	Yeah, but those scholars, some of those were Jewish or Marxist or whatever.
	You know, and yet it looks really compelling.
	There's good scholarship by historians documenting the context for some of this stuff.
	You know, we know why this happened.
	It's not the elders of Zion.
	Well, yeah, but those scholars, some of those were Jewish or Marxist or whatever.
	And, you know, Hillary Clinton is a communist, you know.
	Yeah, there you go.
	I mean, yeah, one will literally say it.
	Like, he thinks Hillary Clinton is basically a communist.
	And that someone like, you know, AOC is like, has to be deliberately trying to destroy the entire country because the Green New Deal is such an obviously wrong set of economic policies that's going to, like, give money, take money away from the productive and give it to the unproductive, which are, you know, disproportionately nonwhite.
	And that it cannot possibly be like an attempt to actually stave off this thing called climate change that is going to destroy us all regardless of what else we do.
	That's obviously not real because like, oh, those leftist Marxist professors and climate science departments who just want to destroy the economy so they can get that precious grant money so they can go on their fancy cruises to Antarctica where they do ice cores.
	Yeah, no, all of that, you know, like none of that has any context.
	It's just they're all against you because, again, Fox News is the center.
	And if you're only listening to Fox News, you're getting that very particular kind of spin on things.
	And yeah, no, it's – Kent Will is fascinating because he is such this like partisan Republican guy and he's just like – and I told you in the last episode.
	He says like I get up in the morning and I read the Drudge Report and I write the thing for the show and I – and he follows like all the other Nazis on Gab.
	But he doesn't like absorb like this super far-right material.
	He's not, like, he's not listening to, like, The Daily Show.
	He's not, like, really, I think he reads The Daily Stormer here and there, but, like, he's getting his news from, Oh, it's converging.
	Right.
	It really is.
	I mean, I've noticed this particularly.
	I mean, maybe we'll get into this, but I've noticed Fox News... We're going to get into Tucker Carlson here in a minute, because I've got one for you.
	Tucker Carlson is kind of the poster boy for this convergence that's going on with, you know, from Fox News towards the white nationalist far right.
	But yeah, it's interesting.
	Just to say, Dave Newhart's been tracking this for a long time, both in his blog and in his book, The Eliminationists, which has nothing to do with, you know, Hitler's willing executioners, which is a terrible, terrible thing.
	But his book, The Eliminationists, actually, It refers to, it was written in, I believe, 2009 or 2010, kind of that, just as this stuff was really beginning, the alt-right was formed around that time, but it had no, this is the Tea Party era, and he's kind of referring to the way that Fox News would use kind of veiled threats of violence that would then be acted upon by, you know, individuals, you know, kind of seeking out the enemies of Fox News, etc.
	And so, you know, the kind of links between kind of extremist violence and far right ideology at that point.
	And, you know, the sort of the mainstream from from Fox News is an excellent book, definitely worth a read.
	And Newhart knows more about these kind of connections between, you know, the kind of far far violent, you know, the kind of individual actors, the those guys and the connections between, you know, kind of quote unquote mainstream news sources and just about anybody.
	So so definitely check that book out if you're listening.
	It's a book I haven't read myself, but it's definitely on my list and I've been meaning to get to.
	He's a liberal, not a leftist, but he knows this shit and he knows it backwards and forwards.
	We can have our issues with what he says.
	He's a liberal, not a leftist.
	Absolutely.
	But he knows this shit and he knows it backwards and forwards.
	Oh, yeah.
	Go read that.
	It's great.
	Absolutely.
	His blog is great stuff.
	A little bit of context on what Daniel said there.
	The first time Daniel mentioned to me the book The Eliminationists, I was a little wary of it because it reminded me of a term that was used in the famous book Hitler's Willing Executioners by Daniel Jonah Goldhagen.
	It's a work of pseudo-history.
	It was enormously puffed and praised at the time.
	I think it was published in the late 90s or the early 2000s, but it's basically a work of pseudo history.
	It's really, really bad.
	It's been debunked over and over again.
	And his big theory about why the Holocaust happened was that the Germans were just, the Germans were anti-Semitic.
	That was his argument.
	I mean, yes, I mean, obviously there was a lot of anti-Semitism in Germany, clearly, but that's not an explanation.
	It's just a description, you know, but that was kind of his explanation.
	The Germans had this unique Brand of eliminationist antisemitism.
	So to me, the term elimination is just kind of connoted quackery, but no, not not in this case.
	Another interesting thing you said was about the yeah, about the drugs, which is the way the way Cantwell seems to have gone from being a guy with, you know, and and a lot of a lot of these other guys seems to have gone from being a guy with a with a serious problem.
	To being very anti and even in his case and in some other cases being very much about how you need a kind of police state to crack down on drugs, you know, and keep people away from it, which is really interesting to me in terms of the pipeline that we talked about last time from libertarianism.
	To fashion because of course it's very much part of the libertarian position that yeah just you know if you want to take drugs they should.
	They should be able to take drugs in fact that was one of the ironically that was one of the reasons why rothbard and the people around him broke away from the sort of.
	Mainstream so to speak of libertarianism.
	uh back in the day because they found ironically the group around the coke brothers far too sort of hippie-ish in their uh in their in their drugginess and they wanted to get serious i'm reminded of the uh of jeff sessions saying the one thing he didn't like about the clan was that they smoked weed That's right, that was their big problem.
	I got into this a little bit in the last episode, but he says in Cantwell's opinion, the libertarian movement, the right libertarianism, this kind of Rothbardian libertarianism,
	was at some point in the like early to 2010s essentially invaded by communists who just wanted to just cared about you know transgender bathrooms and drugs and you know we're kind of iffy on child pornography and that sort of thing and they destroyed the movement from the inside and this again you know when you believe that like the free keen squad and the people on free talk live are of sexually communists It's a joke, right?
	I mean, it's – but he absolutely believes it.
	He's like, no, there are these communists who are coming in because they care about anything other than the absolute unfettered right of people to use their private property in any ways they see fit and anyone who bothers to come across the border.
	I am justified in using the absolute most force that is possible in order to prevent them from coming over.
	I can shoot somebody for stepping on my shoe, essentially, because that's how our private property norm should be.
	It's ridiculous, but it's incredibly influential.
	This kind of libertarian subculture, I mean, we'll kind of come back to some of this.
	There are some other figures that I'd like to talk about with this as well.
	But this libertarian subculture, it's not even sort of the ideology as much as it is this sort of debate, like we're going to sit around and debate about what the idealized form of society is.
	I mean, I was a teenage libertarian back in the day.
	I have kind of involved myself in some of these kind of You know, fun thought experiments about, like, so how do you, like, build roads and, you know, what would the ideal, you know, what is the use of force and that sort of thing.
	You know, but now these kind of ex-libertarian types like Cantwell and particularly Mike Enoch, who we will do episodes on, we will get to, he's the main host of the Daily Show-Up podcast, which I've mentioned a few times here, you know, will essentially laugh at that.
	They'll laugh at their previous naivete for thinking that – having intellectual arguments about.
	So what if somebody owns a piece of property with like a donut hole in the middle of it and the person within the donut hole has no way of getting resources to feed themselves except by traipsing on someone else's property?
	Are they then justified in...
	In traipsing over that, you know, is that a violation of the NAP?
	And, like, you people are completely out to lunch when you're having that conversation.
	You are completely devoid of any... And what's the thing is they now recognize, oh yeah, that was ridiculous.
	Of course, what we really need is just, you know, to get rid of the Jews and then all this is gonna be fine.
	You know, all that was like Jewish subversion of, like, putting our effort to this other thing.
	It's...
	Yeah, I know.
	It's interesting how they've just learned that we just cut through all that, but we embrace this super far-right politics as kind of a justification of it.
	So the, I don't know, I wouldn't want to go too far with this, but it sounds like sort of the switch from, from libertarianism to fascism is almost an attempt to evade, you know, the incoherence of libertarianism.
	It's, you know, the questions it raises are so difficult to answer that they have to switch to this more Manichaean sort of good and evil worldview where there's just, the problem is that there's this evil group, the Jews, you know, and you just get rid of them and everything's fine.
	Well, you know, that all the problems in this society and all the problems in the world are kind of created by these, you know, elites, quote unquote, and that, you know, they'll use a – I don't want to go too deep into this either, but they'll use this sort of term, Talmudic reasoning, after the Talmud, the, you know, the… The Jewish Book of Law.
	And, you know, there's this sort of idea that that, you know, sort of Orthodox Judaism has all kinds of justifications why, you know, oh, we have this rule that God tells us we can't use fire, but oh, we can have a doorman.
	you know, push the button for us, or we can have, like, all these, you know, we can draw, you know, we have to be inside, but then there's this rule that allows us to, well, we can be outside so long as we've got, like, pieces of string that a religious authority has put in various places, and so, like, this sort of, like, legalistic view of the world, and, you know, I this sort of, like, legalistic view of the world, and, you know, I think a lot of that is really silly as well, like, let's not, you know, but they start to kind of use this kind of absurd kind of religious reasoning, and they use it as a way of sort of saying, well, and then,
	reasoning and they use it as a way of sort of saying, well, and then like, you know, reverse mortgages and, you know, these kinds of financial instruments that the Jews, that the bankers use have the same Talmudic quality and, uh, libertarianism, you know, this like idea of like these, you know, like the donut property things, like getting us this like idea of like these, you know, like the donut property things, like getting us involved in these things and having an, always an And you can't just go out and beat people up that you don't like, uh, you know, You know, is this is this telemetry, right?
	And any kind of, you know, we talked about climate change, you know, like, well, how can a increased number of blizzards in the winter months in the Midwest and these like super cold temperatures.
	be created by a global warming trend?
	And the answer is, well, you know, there are wind patterns that are created that, you know, as the temperatures change, the thing at the North Pole called the polar vortex is more likely to dip into the, you know, temperate latitudes, et cetera, you know.
	But, like, oh no, that's just Talmudic reasoning, you see.
	That's not, it can't be, like, real science.
	There can't be real evidence behind it.
	It's Jewish science.
	You're making up excuses for why, you know, This has to be real and why I haven't been able to argue you out of something in 15 seconds.
	The online culture, this era of social media and reading headlines and 140 characters, leads itself to that, right?
	Because whoever has the shortest, quickest to comprehend take wins, right?
	Yeah, yeah.
	God, do they think that that sort of playing around with rules is exclusive to the Jews?
	For God's sake, it's everywhere.
	In any system with rules, there's people, you know, there's casuistry and sophistry and dodging and weaving.
	It's fucking everywhere.
	Have they never looked at themselves?
	Well, no, of course they haven't.
	Sorry.
	They haven't.
	Believe me, believe me, no.
	Yes, I don't know how blizzards are caused by climate change, but that doesn't mean they're not.
	I'm not a climate scientist, I don't know, but I can ask a climate scientist or I can read something written by a climate scientist.
	The fact that I don't understand it doesn't mean it isn't real!
	And it turns out that there are things in the real world that take longer than 30 seconds to understand.
	But, I mean, this is a movement, and libertarianism, before it was a movement, at least in sort of its popular conception, was built on this sort of idea that, you know, it's built on like bright white dudes who were really good in school and never really had to work hard to understand things until, you know, you kind of got beyond a certain level.
	And so the idea that, like, no, you can't just understand something just from, you know, a casual glance at this material, that, like, maybe you actually do have to learn things, and maybe you actually do have to, like, consider your biases, uh, it just, it sounds like, you know, gobbledygook bullshit to them.
	You know and I don't want to push too hard on that but I mean they really are just like mental teenagers who are used to being the smart kid in the class who are throwing spitballs at the authority figures and they think they're really good because they can like come up with a quip and make people laugh and not understand that like there are people who have spent years studying this stuff who know way way more than you do and maybe you should listen like I mean it's just you know.
	They think they're entitled to be right.
	Right.
	If somebody says, you're not right, they think, well, why is that person lying?
	Why is that person trying to cheat me out of my God-given right to be right about things?
	It reminds me of something Stephen Fry, not to veer too far off the topic, but it reminds me of something Stephen Fry wrote.
	We'll come back.
	Go ahead.
	It reminds me of something Stephen Fry wrote in the first part of his autobiography where he writes about being a kid at public school.
	And he writes about sort of this, quite perceptively, I still like that book, about this sort of culture of sort of sneering anything clever.
	And he writes about the sort of boys in English class saying, well, you know, how can Hamlet be Freudian?
	Shakespeare lived and died hundreds of years before Freud.
	It's rubbish, you know, because they just Anything that smacks of cleverness has to be rejected as sort of sly and sneaky.
	And of course, actually, this is where this links up.
	Stephen Fry, who is himself Jewish, he links it to this particularly English iteration of antisemitism.
	So that probably gets us back to where we were before.
	Sure.
	Well, when you're talking about Cantwell, you never get too far away from antisemitism.
	That's just kind of the reality, at least in terms of his current incarnation.
	Because boy, does he hate the Jews!
	And yet he's decided to isolate himself from the fascist movement and become more a Republican Party hack or wannabe Republican Party hack.
	I don't suppose they'd have him.
	No, I mean, I've mentioned he is attempting to sort of rebrand.
	So he does a three-day-a-week show, and it used to be like Monday, Wednesday, Friday he'd do this Radical Agenda live phone show.
	Now he's taking the Wednesday show and he's branded that as Outlaw Conservative.
	This is one of his side businesses.
	He's got a few of these.
	He's got a business where he sells cheap crap like walkie-talkies and flashlights and stuff.
	He's got a business where he will use his professional audio equipment to read things that you write for him.
	Basically he does ad copy and so he charges a fee for that.
	He does have some samples up on that website and they are hilarious.
	He's looking to get into VPN.
	He's trying to provide a VPN service for people who want protection.
	He's trying to charge people 5-10 bucks a month or whatever to do a VPN.
	Recently, again, this is another little piece of news I just saw on his Gab profile.
	He's trying to get into selling cryptocurrency.
	He's long been an adopter of cryptocurrency, and he's been begging for cryptocurrency donations for years.
	One of his big things is that he regrets that he got out of jail when...
	You know, crypto was very near its high point, and he bought a bunch of cryptocurrency, and now it's at about a third of that value, so he lost a shitload of money on Bitcoin.
	But he spent about a year begging every week for his audience to get involved in the crypto markets because he wasn't able to run cards through PayPal, and he couldn't find a credit card processor for his main business because people saw the Vice documentary and they wanted nothing to do with him.
	Yeah.
	But yeah, no, he's now trying to do this cryptocurrency.
	At least he kind of floated the trial balloon.
	But even in the Gap post he says, well, it's going to cost you more than other services.
	And because of Know Your Customer laws, I have to know who you are so you can't be anonymous with me.
	There are all kinds of rumors that Chris Cantwell is a federal informant of various levels of believability.
	He admits to informing on Antifa, like he's trying to, you know, as part of his, kind of, when he was in jail he was trying to say, like, go after these guys, we have the tattoo, we know their names.
	You know, and nobody kind of went after that, and he sees that as the system is biased against him, when in reality it's like, no, you assaulted these people and they defended themselves, and you know, you need to like, get over your fucking self, Chris Cantwell.
	Yeah.
	But there is a lot of speculation that part of how he got out of jail was he informed on maybe some people on his side, and then maybe he's continuing to do so, and I really like the idea that Chris Cantwell is a federal informant.
	I like, I really love the idea that The other alt-writers will continue to believe that meme, despite the fact that I have no evidence for it, really, one way or the other.
	So we'll just kind of leave it at that.
	Yeah, you'll see that a lot of Antifa accounts, a lot of Antifa people on Twitter, people I know, will kind of, you know, continually kind of mock him as a fad, and I think it's glorious.
	But yeah, no, he's trying to sell crypto.
	He's also God, again, more stuff that he just kind of did this week.
	He has previously, so on a prior show like earlier in January, he had, he was out of his state and he decided to make some content for his website and he was prank calling these dating websites, like these like LiveLine, you know, where you get people calling in and then basically he would get non-white women calling in and he would tell them, you know,
	Not to date black people and you know he would just kind of spread his racism around and then he published all those conversations or a bunch of those conversations as the bonus episode and boy Listening to Cantwell deal with real people in the real world is a pretty disgusting thing he named that episode dating diverse degenerates which tells you really all you need to know about that and
	But he had so much fun with that and he thought that was so great that he decided to do a sort of similar thing where he's having his audience member put up flyers that say stop Donald Trump and then they have like a phone number beneath that and the idea is that he's trying to get people to call him.
	They hear a recorded message which maybe hypothetically absolves them of like not being able to release the call, but because New Hampshire is a two party record state both parties have to consent to having a call recorded.
	So he's trying to kind of get around that with this disclaimer that's whatever.
	I don't know what the legal status of that's gonna be.
	But he did try to release that and he already released one little eight-minute call he got from somebody where he was trying to convince them that, you know, well really we just got to stir up the blacks because we're, you know, trying to, you know, stop Donald Trump and so if we stir up the blacks and that's gonna be the way to, you know, drive engagement of people on our side and It's totally cringe material, but he's also actively trying to make fun of people.
	He's actually trying to find low-information people to mock, essentially, and I think it's pretty disgusting behaviour.
	Sorry, go ahead.
	So the point of the posters is to get people who are anti-Trump to phone him up so he can trick them into agreeing to things like that.
	Right, exactly.
	And then post audio of stupid libs and stuff.
	Really, I think he's trying to get like non-white people who don't have the greatest education to go, you know, he's trying to get people he can mock.
	So he's trying to get, you know, like the quote-unquote, the Shaniqua voice that he can just, you know, berate and get to say stupid things.
	I mean, that's, he's, he's working on the assumption that most of the people who are going to call and depending on where you put the, you know, if you put them in, you know, various, There are places where you could put these flyers where you could get calls from people that would definitely sound eminently mockable.
	But then again, I could put a similar flyer with an opposite message at various places in the American South and get equally mockable audio from people if I chose to do so.
	Who goes to show, you know?
	This is actively punching down at this point.
	I think it's pretty vile.
	Even less funny, even more despicable version of Steven Crowder, if you can imagine such a thing.
	I did tweet that out.
	If you do see that flyer anywhere, please pull it down immediately.
	Listen to my voice.
	Spread that far and wide.
	I would like those taken down if at all possible.
	I will say, if you're taking down any sort of far-right poster, Do take care because supposedly they sometimes put, I'm not saying Christopher Campbell does this, but sometimes fascists, if they put posters up, they will put razor blades behind them.
	Yeah, so if you're taking down anything like that, use your keys or something like that, not your bare hands.
	Indeed.
	Okay, so he gets callers, doesn't he?
	I mean, tell me about some of the people that call in to talk to him.
	Sure.
	Well, it's interesting that For a while I wasn't even really listening to the calls just because I was kind of absorbing so much material of his for so long that I would kind of listen to the opening segment he did and then so many of the calls are so like low information and kind of low you know it's just kind of bullshit and so for a while I wasn't really listening to the calls but now I'm actually kind of more interested in the callers just because it gets a kind of a slice of like who's listening to this stuff who isn't me?
	It's kind of part of the issue.
	And, you know, because we know that other podcasters, other kind of like, you know, e-celebs kind of listen to each other's stuff to some degree.
	But, you know, who's on the ground?
	Like, what do these people look like?
	And, you know, Cantwell's collars are probably not an accurate cross-section of this community.
	But I think there's some interesting stuff here.
	A lot of them are, you know, they do kind of push him in particular kind of political directions.
	They really don't want him to cuck.
	They want him to be as hardcore as he can be.
	And the irony is that he has, you know, really pulled back in a lot of ways.
	Like, right after he got out of jail, he went, like, straight all Nazi all the time, full-on, I'm gonna be as aggressive and as, you know, use the harshest and most radical possible language I can use.
	And I think he's realized that doing that, you know, putting on that version of his character doesn't necessarily, like, serve his larger goals of, like, actually trying to build something.
	And actually try to I mean, you know, I said in the last episode that his his goal is genocide.
	And I mean, yes, it is.
	But explicitly, he's trying to kind of put something together.
	It's like the Free State Project, but for Nazis.
	He's trying to get the libertarians to move to New Hampshire.
	He's trying to get.
	The fascists to move to New Hampshire in particular to move to like some particular municipality where they can sort of like become the government.
	They can just sort of like come in and all vote in favor of the most racist laws they can and I'm going to take over key positions in government and that's sort of his at least sort of medium term goal is to kind of set that up.
	And trying to build something like that doesn't really work well when you're just making helicopter ride jokes continually and being really aggressive.
	And we'll get into some of the...
	Some of the more aggressive people who have called into his show are these people called the Bowl Patrol.
	We will do a whole episode on them.
	These are, he actually, for a while he was hosting their podcast on his network.
	He hosts a number of different podcasts on his network, including, for the first two episodes he hosted the Bowlcast.
	Now, Boal, again, is sort of from the Dylann Roof hairdo.
	And these are people who believe that Dylann Roof did nothing wrong and that, you know, they advocate a form of direct action in terms of violence against non-white people.
	And Cantwell himself... Dylann Roof, of course, is the young man who walked into an African-American church and killed... Charleston, South Carolina.
	How many?
	Charleston.
	He killed nine people.
	He sat down with them, he prayed with them, he felt bad about doing it, but then he pulled out a pistol and shot nine people, shot and killed nine people.
	He will serve the rest of his life in prison.
	I don't think, I think he's still kind of going to trial.
	For the death penalty, I'm not sure exactly where he is in his legal things.
	He may very well be killed by the federal government and not too distant future.
	Anyway, these are people who call him, you know, St.
	Ruth and St.
	Dylan and the Pittsburgh synagogue shooter, Robert Bowers, they'll say they'll call him.
	St.
	Bowers.
	These are used to be kind of friends of Cantwell's as he has sort of pulled back from that.
	Now they just prank call him and they pretend to be other figures in the movement and basically interrupt his show to the point to where he actively has started banning them.
	And I think there's a lot of bad blood now, even though they'll still kind of like talk about his show on their show.
	And then kind of other things that they do is sort of like they sort of like him because they think he's pretty hardcore and he's pretty entertaining.
	But they think he's just cucking on the message and that, you know, you should just kind of go out and kill people.
	So their explicit policy is that you should just go and murder black people.
	Right, that you should go and use.
	And Jews.
	And Jews, right.
	Black people, non-whites, people who are working to subvert the society, that this isn't going to be solved politically, this is going to be solved through some form of action.
	So the obvious question is, I mean, I'm not advocating this, but why don't they do that?
	If that's what they think you should do.
	Well, the metaphor I use is they want to throw spitballs in the hopes that other people throw bullets at the enemies, right?
	They're not actively doing it themselves, but they'll say, oh, we don't disavow that and we worship that.
	And then there's some, like, Satan worship stuff they get into, and I'm kind of treading a little bit lightly here.
	The founder of the Boldcast actually follows me on Twitter.
	And I would block him, but I'm sure he could just create another account, so it's fine.
	So he may be listening.
	Hey, how's it going?
	Don't worry, we're going to talk more about these guys later on.
	But that's kind of one kind of thing, is that he is getting these prank calls.
	He's pretty much got a lid on it these days.
	He kind of knows where they're calling from, and he has ways of kind of tracking where they are.
	So he's not taking their calls as often.
	But it does have a whole list of other people on that network, including this other super-libertarian guy, Jared Howell, who is obsessed with this theory that US foreign policy is ultimately controlled by the petrodollar, being the dollar peg for world currency.
	I looked up this theory, and it has a little bit of a pedigree going back to the 70s, I think.
	But he's just obsessed with using it to describe any kind of like any kind of currency fluctuation at all that has anything that is connected with any kind of military action or like a threat of military action is suddenly evidence that the petrodollar that that's the the killer ruling thing that controls world events and then of course that connects to the Jews and the bankers and all that sort of thing.
	Jared Howe is a deeply unpleasant person to listen to.
	That's his pet topic, and the other one is he lives in Lewiston, Maine.
	He does this under his own name, so I've got to give him respect for that, but he lives in Lewiston, Maine, which has a significant kind of Somali immigrant community, and all the crimes they commit is also his other big...
	Topic du jour.
	He is really, really hard to listen to.
	The other group that is on Catwools Network is this podcast called Obzine Podzine.
	These guys are basically punk rockers who talk about how you should kill the Jews in between playing punk songs.
	So, yeah, that's a great listen.
	This is the these are the people that like hang out with Chris Cantwell these days Just just letting him just trying to give you a sense of you know He's not completely on his own because he's got these kind of buddies.
	He does get guests like from the movement on his Podcast every now and then but like the really the big heavy hitters don't really show up anymore Like, you know, Mike, you know, he was kind of he he was kind of calling him for a while you know because I've been on and Over a year now.
	I mean, you know like these the kind of the big names really are kind of steering clear of Cantwell because Cantwell has kind of gone so far off the off the deep end on some of this stuff Which again is just more isolation to Cantwell in terms of his callers in terms of I'm sorry Hang on a minute.
	I'm a little bit unclear on this sure this like Mikey knock.
	He is the host of the daily shower Yes Right.
	And now he's avoiding Cantwell because Cantwell's gone, what, too anti-semitic?
	Or not anti-semitic enough?
	I'm a bit lost now.
	No, I'm sorry.
	I was not being as clear as I could have been.
	So this is part of the big optics debate, which I mentioned a couple of episodes ago.
	Oh, right.
	I see.
	The idea of distancing yourself from overt calls to violence or overt...
	You know, sort of political, you know, kind of direct political action as opposed to trying to kind of keep it light and just be like, no, no, we're just joking here.
	And so it's like, no, no, The Daily Show, it's just, it's just a kind of a fun time, goofy podcast from, from guys that like to like edgy humor.
	You know, we're not actively advocating that like all trans people should shoot themselves in the face or anything like that.
	This is part of that kind of divisions within the movement.
	I don't think that, like, you know, Cantwell and Enoch are not getting along.
	In fact, Cantwell even says, like, any problems that, like, TRS, the right stuff, which is the larger network that Enoch runs, any issues with the TRS guys are all kind of on their end.
	Like, he says he doesn't hold any ill will towards them, but who knows what the reality of that is.
	These guys are constantly fighting behind the scenes, and all I'm telling you is that, you know, None of the big names in the movement have come on to Cantwell's show in quite some time.
	David Duke is one exception, but David Duke will go on anybody's show.
	Anybody who'll let him talk about health food and the Jews, he's there.
	That's great.
	But yeah, I could get you a list of previous guests, but it is kind of interesting that Cantwell is so isolated from everybody else to such a large degree, or at least the other kind of big names.
	Other callers that he has this kind of retinue of kind of regular callers and if you listen long enough you get you get to kind of know some of these people, one of whom, Patrick Little, who ran for Senate in California last year, who was Who has connections to the movement, kind of going back, I mentioned him a bit in one of the Unite the Right episodes.
	He's the one that Jason Kessler was having a phone call with when his father walked in and made him get off the phone.
	Patrick Little is the unironically nuke Israel guy.
	We will definitely do an episode on him in the future, but he kind of started his political career calling into Cantwell Show.
	He just called in and said, hey, I'm thinking about running for office.
	What do you think about that?
	And Cantwell gave him the advice.
	Yeah, I think the more people we got running for office, the better.
	And he's still kind of maintaining some kind of connection with him.
	He called in just like a week or two ago and chatted with him for a few minutes.
	So Patrick Little likes to call.
	He also has some non-obvious people that you wouldn't expect.
	And this is something that Cantwell kind of does intentionally is to maintain – is to let people call in that you wouldn't necessarily think would call in to a quote-unquote Nazi-branded.
	the Nazi-branded radio show.
	One of whom is this very soft-spoken, obviously gay, who admits to being gay, I'm not outing him or anything.
	But this former Democrat, who is a gay man, who I don't think has identified himself, at least I don't have his name in my head, but he calls in and he goes, yeah, well, hello, Chris.
	I just, I just don't know about this, about this Trump thing.
	I mean, we've really got to do something about this.
	And, you know, when you hear this, like, lisping, you know, very stereotypical gay man talking, like, literally talking on a Nazi podcast, it is this kind of, there is this kind of weird frisson there, right?
	He has several people who you know will admit to being you know non-white or at least sort of like mixed-race People of like Hispanic heritage and black.
	He's even got a few Jewish people who kind of show up in his Like his telegram group that like the kind of local chat group and his his forums He's remarkably kind of open to working with non-white people for a white nationalist, you know It's like if you if you're gonna agree with my goal of like getting rid of all the trans people and getting rid of all the you know Like setting up an all-white system of government I'm happy to work with you as long as you're on the other side of the border or there aren't enough of you to overwhelm our white majority.
	It's weird.
	He's fundamentally practical, right?
	It does remind me of...
	He's fundamentally practical, right?
	Oh, yeah, yeah.
	Yeah.
	I think what he is is fundamentally lonely.
	A lot of these guys at least sort of openly are not like kind of, you know, suggesting a sort of like overt hatred of people who aren't like themselves.
	Some of them do, but that's not sort of the norm.
	Usually it's more of a, you know, as long as they stay over there where I don't have to deal with them.
	I mean, a lot of these guys are like rap music fans.
	Cantwell loves rap music.
	He'll play rap music on the show sometimes, you know?
	And he's just like, you know, like, yeah, I mean, you know, I like the way they sing and dance, just get them over there so I don't have to share a political system with them.
	You know, this is, you know, the idea that like, you know... This is old as the hills though, isn't it?
	Like, you know, you want to, you like the jazz, but you don't want them Right.
	In the white section of the restaurant, you know.
	Yeah, this is ancient stuff.
	Yeah, no.
	This shouldn't be surprising, and yet it is surprising to people, so it's worth pointing out.
	Should mention one more caller.
	I mean, I understand why it's surprising, because the sheer cognitive dissonance at work, you know, or rather just the hypocrisy and the sheer lack of self-awareness.
	To me, I think it feeds from this idea that, you know, the sort of simplistic notion of what racism means kind of plays into this, right?
	This sort of idea that, like, you know, if you're not a member of the Klan and good standing underneath the hood, outside of a burning cross, then, oh, well, that's what real racism is.
	And the idea that – and this was sold to us as a way of sort of combating racism in a way of creating this sort of cognitive dissonance where you just don't want to be like the kind of poor inbred hick.
	But it also meant that racism gets coded as that and only that, and that's really, really difficult and problematic, and it just kind of feeds into our ideas.
	Yeah, it's a real barrier to understanding this idea that racism is just like a character flaw.
	I'm not saying these people aren't very flawed, but racism is this character flaw where you just hate people who are different from you.
	It is so much more complicated than that.
	It's a vast, complex You know, historically embedded social system.
	And as such, it's got loads of, I mean, just today, a fascinating exchange on Twitter.
	Emily Gorchansky was talking about how TERFs are effectively white supremacists.
	And her reasoning is, you know, I have to think about this a bit more, but her reasoning is extremely good.
	And she's getting Jesse Sing, is it Signal or Single?
	Single.
	Single.
	Yeah.
	Who's obviously, you know, very suspect on this issue to anybody who knows about this guy.
	And he's just effectively mocking her for this statement, like, oh, she's just an ignoramus.
	She doesn't like TERFs, so they're Nazis, you know.
	And he just doesn't know, he doesn't have the faintest understanding of what he's talking about, because he hasn't bothered to examine her position at all.
	And to him, you know, if you're not, I think as you yourself pointed out on Twitter, because TERFs don't go around wearing white hoods, then how can you say they're white supremacists?
	Exactly.
	One of the things with studying these guys is that, you know, many of them are really, you know, are both these sort of active, classically racist, you know, Klan members, essentially.
	You know, they're both wearing the white hoods and taking advantage of the sort of larger societal construct.
	And then they say, well, you know, how can you say that Donald Trump is a racist when he's not as racist as I am, essentially?
	And so they kind of come at that same idea from the other side and then using that as a way of sort of, you know, whitewashing all the people who just aren't them, which is again a way that this sort of metapolitical game and the sort of Overton window stuff works.
	You know, it's all part of the same general strategy.
	So, big topic here.
	I'm sure we'll come back to it.
	I did want to do one more caller because we teased it on the last episode.
	And that is Dave from New York.
	Dave from New York.
	We're finally there, listeners.
	We're finally going to talk about Dave from New York.
	If you tuned in specifically to hear about who Dave from New York is.
	We've teased you long enough.
	One of the few times I've actually laughed at one of these shows is a line that Cantwell has over Dave from New York.
	And yet, the more I thought about like, oh, this would be like a little funny segment where I can tell you about this ridiculous person, the more actually sad and horrifying it is, because Dave from New York is someone who has – we have – if you've listened long enough, and you can kind of piece through some of this evidence.
	Severe mental health issues.
	He seems to be a pretty bad diabetic who is not able to care for himself possibly properly I mean, you know kind of take his insulin unless he's in some sort of facility which he has gone into You know various shelters and some some some jail time in the kind of time that he's been he's been calling in from what I am told from and this this guy is a
	I'm not going to link you to his online presence.
	He does have a YouTube channel of his own, but he's been a regular caller in to Cantwell's program since it was on Free Talk Live.
	So for several years now, and the first time you hear him, you think he's got to be an actor just playing a role, but no, this guy is absolutely 100% real by any You know, no one would run this running gag that long and play it in quite this way.
	He runs on his sentences.
	He talks way, way too fast, and I am actively trying to slow myself down in how much I talk right now.
	I am aware that in previous episodes I have spoken too fast, and I say, you know, every 15 seconds.
	I'm working on that.
	Dave from New York, he speaks too fast, he is completely incoherent, and he's always looking for a job, and he's always looking for a girlfriend, and you know, sexual relations.
	I said that calling in to Chris Cantwell and asking for advice about sex and dating is a really bad idea.
	Dave from New York is absolutely not the person who should be calling in to Chris Cantwell's show.
	Because Cantwell's opinion is, well, you know, you are just not a very appealing mate, Dave.
	And the reason you're not is because you think the world needs to hand, you know, you need things handed to you.
	You need someone to give you a job and you're not willing to, you know, kind of build yourself up by your bootstraps in order to become a better person.
	Dave is looking in particular, like one time he asked the question, how can I tell from looking at a girl if she has hair down there?
	How can I tell if she has pubic hair?
	Because I don't like girls that are shaved because they just they seem too young to me.
	I like I like a girl with hair down there.
	And they went on several calls over the course of like whenever Dave would call in, he would kind of go back to the same topic.
	How can I tell if the girl has hair down there?
	And Cantwell's answer is, well, You seduce her by whatever means you're going to seduce her and at some point she's going to take her pants off and you're going to learn the answer to that question.
	But Dave doesn't want the answer to that question to be no because he's just completely obsessed with this particular feature.
	Also he wants women who paint their nails and their toenails.
	He wants a girl with long hair.
	And they go on back and forth about the details of, you know, Dave's dating life, which appears to be largely women that he is stalking and women who he's kind of talking to on the Internet, and possibly some sex workers.
	I'm not sure exactly there.
	At one point, Cantwell encourages...
	Dave to go look up our mutual friend Molly in Charlottesville who's at Socialist Dog Mom and he said yeah just go go to Charlottesville and look her up because you know she's a lesbian and you could just fuck her straight Dave you know that that's actual advice that he's given him so yeah absolutely hilarious stuff I feel bad for Dave because he's he's calling into this show and yet he
	You realize after a while that this is again sort of a situation where Cantwell is using this as a way of sort of disarming the people like me who would follow, or the people who kind of casually listen, because he's providing content that is not as, you know, out there and hardcore.
	I mean, he does do an open phone show.
	Anybody can call him in, and just about anybody does call into that show.
	You hear a little bit of everything here and there.
	At least Jewish women who will call into his show.
	It's remarkable.
	Yeah, so that's Dave from New York.
	The one time that I laughed at the show, and I'm just going to leave this here.
	The one time I laughed was there was a particular moment where Dave had called in and he said, like, I'm trying to get this job at a greeting card company.
	I was trying to get a job at Hallmark or something.
	And Cantwell says, well, are you going to, are you going to be writing the cards?
	I mean, what would you write in a card, Dave?
	What would you, with all your, like, knowledge of human relationships, et cetera, write in a card?
	And then he suggests that, you know, you should have a card, and on the inside it should say, on the outside it should say, you know, do you have, and then you open it up, hair down there.
	And that's the one time I've ever laughed at Chris Cantwell's show.
	I've got to tell you, I'm more bummed out than amused.
	You haven't listened to as many calls from Dave as I have.
	You take your pleasure where you can get it, ultimately.
	Sometimes you really do just kind of take the tiny little nuggets of joy just where they are.
	But that's the one time where I could just imagine Cantwell opening up an undersized card and just hair down there.
	Yeah, it amused me slightly to hear that.
	We should end on Tucker Carlson.
	That's the place to go.
	Oh goody.
	My favorite.
	So Chris Cantwell is literally Tucker Carlson's biggest fan.
	He watches Tucker Carlson every night.
	He plays segments of Tucker Carlson on his show.
	During the period before he was brought into jail, but after the Unite the Right rally, he actually said to a journalist, I will not go on with you, I will not give you an on-camera interview because I can't trust you.
	If you can get me an interview with Tucker Carlson, I will go on Tucker Carlson.
	He literally will say, Tucker Carlson is the only honest man in news, and that he has to know about the Jews.
	He can't talk the way he does and not know about the Jews, right?
	So this is literally his perspective.
	And I figured I did click some audio for you if you do want to go listen to it.
	There's an extended segment, and I've got a link here.
	Tucker Carlson, his first show after the New Year, after the Christmas and New Year holidays, he came in and he did a segment that was called The American Dream is Dying.
	And in this segment he talks about the, I mean basically kind of what we were talking about earlier, the idea that this country as a shopping mall, this country as not having a coherent identity.
	He softens it slightly and kind of uses language that's somewhat more...
	You know less overtly racialized and more like people are coming in here who do not share the American culture and American values wink-wink You know these people who might speak Spanish or who might?
	You'll be from Africa and maybe have different religions and different different attitudes towards you know white middle-class suburban capitalism and the private property rights etc, but he goes on and it's it's about a 15-minute segment and
	And I did include a link here where you kind of read you can watch the segment the video that Carlson put out and you can kind of read a Kind of commentary on it from Real Clear Politics, which is a pretty good kind of describes What he's kind of really saying here.
	What's interesting is that Cantwell plays this entire segment.
	It's about 15 minutes long and it's Much longer than he would normally play normally he does like these little kind of three or four minute things where he just like goes to take a piss or whatever and But he plays this entire thing, and then he comes back, and clearly himself innervated just by listening to it again, by listening to Tucker Carlson basically push white nationalist talking points on the third largest show on cable news.
	He then reads a segment from Mein Kampf, which says the exact same fucking thing.
	Except it just kind of says it a little bit more overtly and uses the word Jew.
	And I highly recommend people actually go listen to that thing.
	Put it at high speed, kind of get through it.
	I mean, I listen to all this stuff at high speed.
	But the idea that, you know, if you need any further evidence that Tucker Carlson is pushing an actively, like, white nationalist agenda on his television show, The fact that, like, Chris Cantwell is his biggest fan and that he literally, he did my work for me by just putting it right up next to a segment from Mein Kampf, right?
	Like, you know?
	Yeah, yeah.
	We will almost certainly do an episode on Tucker Carlson in the future, but yeah, sorry, go ahead.
	No, I was just going to say, I've been talking about Tucker Carlson on and off for ages.
	He's one of those, I'm sure loads of people were talking about it before me, but I've been sort of, from my own research, talking about how horrifyingly dangerous this guy is for a while.
	And it's sort of become almost a mainstream talking point since I started talking about it.
	And I think also he's become more overt, but yeah, he is incredibly dangerous.
	I mean especially in recent years where I haven't read his book but apparently in his book and this has been mirrored in some of his more recent broadcasts you know he's starting to pepper this stuff, this coded white nationalist stuff, anti-immigrant stuff, he started to pepper it with like, vague anti-capitalism you know or at least uh stuff about how we should uh we you know this free you know letting the free market you know just be completely free
	that's been that's actually been bad for americans and of course it comes from this right-wing perspective where he talks about how it's been bad for families and uh social stability and religion and traditional you know traditional marriage and which you know there's there's a germ of truth in that because of course the ravages of neoliberalism have wrought incredible sort of social changes on society and a lot of them have been incredibly damaging to communities but this is what fascists do they will come out with you know
	i'm not necessarily calling tucker carlson a fascist although i think he's pretty close you know he's definitely on the spectrum um and As someone who's been studying the writings and the speakings and the propaganda of fascists for two years now, I'm kind of comfortable saying Tucker Carlson is a fascist at this point, honestly.
	Yeah, yeah, he's, you know, again, it's a bit more complicated than you just are or you aren't.
	It's not an on-off position, you know, but yeah, he's pretty much on the way.
	He's cut from that same cloth.
	Oh, totally.
	If he was not making the show on fox news he could he could go like 1% further and be on the TRS network there would be no lady.
	Yeah he be one of these people he be one of these people if you haven't had the good fortune to be born rich.
	Right.
	And I think that's probably true of a lot of these people.
	But yeah, this is what fascists do.
	They will come out with sort of pseudo anti-capitalism.
	And it's all reoriented away from a proper left critique of capitalism towards this pandering to these right-wing paranoias.
	And that's exactly what he's increasingly doing.
	So yeah, it's no surprise to me whatsoever that Uh, Cantwell and people like him are picking up on the, uh, the high frequency whistles that Tucker is emitting, you know?
	And it's, we were talking about Fox News earlier, they know their audience.
	And, uh, I think Tucker knows that there's a growing audience here, you know?
	Oh yeah, no, I mean, I, I can't, it's unclear to me whether Tucker even believes, I mean, you know, what Tucker actually himself believes is, uh, opaque to me.
	Because he has kind of moved around a lot on a lot of these issues and he's deeply opportunistic and cynical Tucker Carlson exactly and I think he's just feeding this audience and the irony is that you know he took over when Bill O'Reilly was kicked out of Fox News for sexual harassment Tucker took over his spot and Bill O'Reilly was not nearly as far on this stuff as Tucker Carlson is so
	No, but Bill O'Reilly's sort of a trad conservative, you know, compared to Tucker Carlson, which, you know, don't get me wrong, a traditional sort of conservative is a fucking awful thing, but yeah, Tucker's on a whole different level, I think.
	Bill O'Reilly, the reasonable center, is kind of what... When Bill O'Reilly is your reasonable man, you're in some pretty fucking dangerous territory there.
	The reasonable center right character, Bill O'Reilly, or David Frum, that's just kind of where we are now.
	Yeah, no definitely check out that that link at least kind of watch his video and look at the look at the right up there And yeah, we will be coming back and doing Tucker Carlson In a more extended setting I did just want to mention him here because you know Cantwell is his biggest fan and he will literally play segments on his show from time to time and I thought that was a really remarkable moment where he played that much of it at one time because he just thought it was he thought it was perfect he thought it was exactly
	What it is, and it is, you know, this rejection of this kind of laissez-faire capitalism, this sort of idea that, you know, it is the nature of the state, the nature of the government to protect the people who are here.
	And, you know, the white nationalists will say the race, the white race, but, you know, and Tucker will say, you know, The population or you know the the the root population or the you know the traditional population or whatever.
	But you know it's just another coded way of saying the same fucking thing right?
	And it's completely insincere as well lest there be any doubt about this.
	I mean we're talking about Tucker's opportunism and cynicism.
	They're all fascists are always opportunistic and cynical.
	They will always jettison their deeply held beliefs about whatever to get into power.
	Hitler did it.
	Hitler betrayed The you know wings of his party to the point of having the murdered when they got in the way of his power and you know as for their sort of critiques of laser for capitalism i can show you know i give the page references for shire's rise and fall of the third reich where you know they quote.
	Walter Funk, who was one of Hitler's economic goons, you know, where he talks about Hitler going to meet big businessmen to get funds from them and telling them, oh, no, I'm not in favor of planned economies.
	I'm in favor of free markets.
	You know, it's bullshit, but they will say it because it plays well.
	Just like that's why the Nazis were called the National Socialists.
	You know, it wasn't because they were on the left, as assorted people will tell you.
	It's because it played well.
	Exactly.
	Socialism was like the hip new thing, and that's how you just brand yourself as a National Socialist.
	But yeah, we're getting into history now.
	Well, yeah, I think that wraps up Cantwell.
	I mean, it obviously doesn't go through all of Cantwell, but I think I've given you, over these last three hours or so, I think you've gotten a good feel for who this absolutely despicable fucker is, and also just how pathetic he is.
	And that was kind of the goal the whole time, right?
	Yeah, it's been really interesting.
	So what are we doing next time?
	Yeah, next time I think we're going to get away from people again and we're going to go for the neoconfederates slash southern nationalists.
	We're going to discuss some of the, this sort of division in the movement, this, you know, again kind of going back to the Unite the Right, the monuments coming down, kind of where that history comes from and what the kind of realities on the ground of this particular subset of the movement, which Definitely distances itself from what you normally think of as the alt-right in some interesting ways.
	So yeah, that's where we're going next, the neoconfederate slash southern nationalists.
	Great, okay.
	Well, that'll be episode seven.
	So we seem to be building a bit of an audience, which is great.
	Thanks for listening, everybody.
	And yeah, see you next time.
	See you.
	Thanks, Daniel.
	Bye.

▲