Russell Brand confronts Donald Trump's blasphemous self-comparison to Jesus, analyzing it through the Book of Daniel as an apocalyptic sign of empire's end. He contrasts this with his own recovery journey, describing addiction as a "mad wolf" and advocating for replacing the "addict self" with a spiritual identity in Christ. Brand argues that true freedom requires rejecting false idols and centralized power, urging listeners to silence destructive internal voices through humility rather than control. Ultimately, the episode suggests that overcoming addiction mirrors the broader struggle against political and personal tyranny, demanding a surrender of ego to find genuine liberation. [Automatically generated summary]
Transcriber: CohereLabs/cohere-transcribe-03-2026, sat-12l-sm, and large-v3-turbo
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Blasphemy and Ascension00:08:10
Russell Brand, trying to bring real journalism to the American people.
Hello there, you awakening wonders.
Thanks for joining me today for Stay Free with Russell Brand.
We're going to be talking about blasphemy, we're going to be talking about ascendancy and ascension and revolution and rebellion, and all of it is available on Rumble and Rumble Premium.
Get Rumble Premium now.
Let us talk together freely outside the inhibiting presence of those that would seek to censor us.
But is some censorship.
A good thing?
Do you like having a president that would willfully just compare himself to Jesus?
I mean, it's shocking.
That's actually me.
I did that.
That's me comparing myself to Jesus before coming to Jesus.
Good photo, not the right message.
Although we can gain access to Christ if we are willing to surrender everything about ourselves that we consider to be more important than Him.
Here's the post that caused all the trouble.
When I was on Tucker Carlson.
Carson, the other day, it's on all of the Tucker Carlson things right now, I guess.
The thing that caused most concern was the demonic presence in the light above.
Now, like, in a way, should it make any difference?
Is it any different than when Donald Trump posts himself as Superman?
In a way, he sort of could say that he's reviving what looks like Hunter Biden around the people from that Duck Dynasty show.
Maybe it's as simple as that.
If there was anything that concerned me, it would be the demonic presence.
Up there in the sky.
Meghan Kelly, who I'll be joining soon to discuss my new book.
There's a link in the description to buy that.
Oh, don't hold that up so damn.
I'm talking about being antichrists.
This is my book, How I Become a Christian in Seven Days.
How I Love You, Lord.
It's a good book, this.
I'm real proud of it.
Please get it, particularly if you love me.
It's pretty good.
I'm going on Meghan Kelly soon.
Not like that, grow up.
Here's Meghan Kelly talking about how 1.4 billion Catholics have been offended.
One of those Catholics, Joe McCann, is on the Show with us, as you know, every week, and he'll be doing crack on in just a matter of moments.
But before that, we're going to cover Trump and blasphemy.
We're going to look at some of the disturbing news emerging all around the world.
We're going to be talking about Sam Harris, who hopefully will come on the show for an honest chat with us.
We're going to be fronting the IMF.
But first, let's hear Megyn Kelly's views on Trump's blasphemy.
I don't know why the president's getting so desperate for attention that he feels the need to mock 1.4 billion Catholics.
It's enough, okay?
It's enough with this nonsense.
I know you love getting a rise out of people.
I know you're really enjoying being subversive.
You upset all the right people.
I get it.
But you know, like, why?
Last week it was Muslims.
Now it's Catholics.
Who's next?
I bet you it's not going to be the Jews.
She bowled.
She bowled Meghan Kelly.
I'm looking forward to meeting her.
Hey, what I think is pretty interesting is Donald Trump, he's always been a little bit like this.
And I think what a lot of people are feeling is that in condemning Trump, those that were his vociferous advocates, among them Tucker Carlson, Candace Owens, and Meghan Kelly, are having to.
Kind of walk back the evangelism and zeal that led him to be president in the first place.
Imagine how the liberal left must be rejoicing at this fragmentation of the once unified space.
Therefore, those of us that have always said don't worship political figures, the institutions and the systems themselves are what need to change, are, I would say, white as snow in this instance.
And I don't mean that in a racist way, I'm also against racism.
Let's have a look at John Stewart saying that he saw us.
Familiar face, I guess, in that meme.
Let's have a look at Jon Stewart.
He's a funny guy.
Wait, the guy in the bed, can I just.
Are you.
Nice, he's still got it, Judge Stewart.
He's still got it.
It's he himself.
Let's have a look at how Trump voters have responded to the Post.
That's a disgrace.
I mean, they've hit pay dirt there.
He's got a white truck, a mustache, not in a gay way, and he's not taken his shades off to be interviewed.
That is a Trump voter.
I'm very upset about that.
I mean, how egotistical can you possibly be?
I'm ashamed that he would actually do that.
A man I voted for and trust.
Again, this will cause revelry and rejoicing among the liberal left, but I urge you already to step outside of the vicissitudes of swinging from an imagined left to an imagined right between the colours red and blue.
Ascend, ascend these systems, demand direct digital democracy and absolute open source participation.
That's why me and Joby Weeks and a whole other set of people that have been exposed to significant lawfare, you'll be next, Dave, are building the technology for digital democracy.
I'll be running for Mayor of London in 20 28.
Who knows what conditions I'll be in by then?
But it doesn't matter because in democracy is the will of the people and indeed the ability of the people to vote that matters.
We're building the tech right now, even as we speak.
If you want more money spent on roads, no problem.
If you want police time and resources spent on Facebook crime, you can vote for it.
If you want it spent on knife crime, vote for it.
Throw off the shackles and the labels.
Walk instead with the divine truth accessible to us all.
The Iranians, it seems, are trolling President Trump for his recent ascent or descent into blasphemy.
Spence whose perspective you look at it from.
From his perspective, it's ascending because, you know, Christ can't go any higher than that.
From a religious perspective, it's a descent into blasphemy.
Let's look at what Iran, let's see what these cheeky Iranians are saying about this.
Your reckoning has come.
What is this?
I mean, we're in a blasphemy spiral now.
Our Lord would not be using the old fisticuffs, although apparently when he returns, it will be with a sword.
Let's have a look at how Trump defends this.
And let me know, I've not watched this yet.
I know the story, you know, stories a million years ago in internet years, but I want to see this is what I'm trying to hold together.
I find Trump a fascinating individual, having gone from in like 2015, 14, thinking this person can't be president, this is madness, finding him a sort of joy.
Because, you know, my enemy's enemy is my friend, that kind of mentality.
But perhaps a little more sophisticated and nuanced that he brings to the forefront political and ideological problems that are able to be masked if you have innocuous bureaucratic and managerial leaders, or even showbizzy leaders,
whether you're talking about Blair in my country, who's a sort of a blend of bureaucrat and showbiz, good public speaker, potentially demon controlled, or Obama, a sort of almost a return to the kind of Reagan and Kennedy levels of.
Public facing excellence.
And if those presidents could deliver little in 2008, Barack Obama yielding to the powers of the centralized financial industry, and if Trump ultimately does in a situation of global conflict what one imagines Kamala Harris would have done, isn't the gig up for centralized party politics, particularly this bipartisan concoction that most democracies live with?
So for me, this ain't no great revelation nor no great fall.
I'm really interested to see how his social dexterity and media skills enable him to.
Talk his way out of this one.
And did you post that picture of yourself depicted as Jesus Christ?
Well, it wasn't depicted.
It was me.
I did post it, and I thought it was me as a doctor and had to do with Red Cross as a Red Cross worker there, which we support.
And only the fake news could come up with that one.
End of Imperial Politics00:14:36
So I just heard about it.
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And I said, how did they come up with that?
It's supposed to be me as a doctor making people better.
And I do make people better.
I make people a lot better.
As an example, the 11,000, I understand your husband's going through a treatment.
Yes, sir.
Yes, sir.
He's going through some very serious cancer treatment, so this goes a long way.
Yes, sir, it sure does.
There we go, not vintage Trump, I wouldn't say, but somewhat adeptly handled.
In this giddying, spiraling time, I think it's difficult even to hang on to the rails.
The world is moving so quickly, isn't it, now, into a kind of geopolitical heat that seems to me unprecedented.
Then I remind myself what would it have been like if you'd had Instagram and X when the bombs of Nagasaki and Hiroshima went off?
What would we be saying if Pearl Harbor had happened when.
If Pearl Harbor had happened when social media was available, or Dunkirk, or Normandy, or any of the sort of Second World War, the great wars, as they are known, of the last century, how would they be reported?
Vietnam, even the proxy wars in their last incarnation, how would they have seemed in their age?
Let me know what you think in the comments and the chat.
Here, though, is an advert from Trump.
I'm not sure what the context is.
Here's an advert from Trump.
Are you suffering from a serious life-threatening illness?
Has your doctor told you you're probably going to die?
My name is Dr. Donald Trump and I have helped millions of patients with conditions.
I don't know.
I mean, what are you asking?
Do you think he was lying there?
Do you think he actually thought it was a Red Cross worker?
I don't think that.
I think he's below the threshold of his concern.
Someone said, I think he was told the photo was doctored, and they're wondering if he confused that to mean.
Well, he's someone healing someone.
He's someone healing someone.
But what I think he must be like, don't you?
Did you watch that Tucker Carlson documentary where he was like, yeah, you actually saw him posting?
Like, I didn't watch the whole thing, actually.
You know, who watches the whole anything these days?
I just remember seeing some clips of it.
And like, he's like just on Truth Social, typing and doing stuff.
And it's all very urgent and immediate and spontaneous.
And I don't see him going into an AI program and having it generate it.
And then him posting it.
So someone else probably generated it.
Hey, what do you think about this, sir?
Yeah, it's pretty funny.
And he's just like, put it out there.
Probably.
I think that might be what it's like.
In any event, he's put himself into a sort of a conflict.
If you were looking at Trump in a Lao Tzu way, as in an art of war, excuse me, a Sun Tzu, who is it wrote Art of War?
I can't remember.
But anyway, if you look at him in an art of war way, you're not meant to have conflicts unless you want to have the conflict.
And I think this feels kind of.
Inadvertent.
Whilst I reckon the conflict between Iran and the United States was going to happen, whoever was president, what I feel like this might represent is an end of the idea that Trump exists outside of an imperial globalist purview, i.e., whoever's really in control can continue to do what they want to do regardless of the outcome of any election.
Let me know what you think about that in the comments and the chat.
In English, I would simply say, when Once again, what I said in the Urbi et Urbi message on Sunday, asking all people of goodwill to search always for peace and not violence, to reject war, especially a war which many people have said is an unjust war, which is continuing to escalate and which is not resolving anything.
In fact, we have a worldwide economic crisis, energy crisis.
Situation in the Middle East of great instability, which is only provoking more hatred throughout the world.
So come back to the table, let's talk, let's look for solutions in a peaceful way, and let's remember especially the innocent, children, the elderly, the sick, so many people who have already become or will become victims of this continued warfare, to remind all that attacks on civilian infrastructure, Is against international law,
but that it is also a sign of the hatred, the division, the destruction the human being is capable of.
And we all want to work for peace.
People want peace.
I would invite the citizens of all the countries involved to contact the authorities, political leaders, congressmen, to ask them, tell them to work for peace and to reject war always.
Thank you very much.
In a way, it's heartening to see.
A religious leader, the head of the church in this instance, declaring that the goal should be peace and encouraging activism because the ascendant and ultimate authority is the authority of God.
Secularism, which has never been tried before, I was reminded in my conversation with Tucker Carlson, you'll be able to see that today, and our interview with him next week, is a relatively modern phenomenon.
People previously have never tried to live apart from a holy code.
Even if that's derived from pagan beliefs or Islamic.
And the idea that we can just through reason with mankind as the apex, not just one individual, but our entire species, is pretty novel and I would say doesn't seem to be going that well.
Don't you feel like a lot of times the church is subjugating itself to the power of the fallen one, the institutions that might be controlled by evil?
Certainly, that's the biblical and scriptural position that the institutions of the world, the world itself, is controlled by the evil one.
The prince of this world has come to get me now, our Lord says in Luke when Judas betrays him.
And I feel that the question of our time might be bigger even than the enormous personality of Donald Trump, and even larger than the great conflicts that appear to be igniting and exacerbating in the Middle East.
What is the role of God in your life as an individual and what is the role of God in our lives collectively?
If we reject God, what are the coordinates by which we govern our own lives and by which we navigate hot, contentious political conflicts such as the one right now?
In a sense, Pope Leo there didn't seem to be, and I don't know what the chronology is, particularly addressing a blasphemous post, but the problem of war itself.
And as I've heard, friends of mine, I'm friends with Sean Foyt, hey, that preacher, and he clearly really, he's a good guy.
I like him a lot.
I love him.
And he's, I think, a real advocate for Trump and believes that Trump's doing the right thing.
My feeling, though, is that, and also that we know what we get with Trump, and we always knew that he was a kind of a bombastic and egocentric individual.
In truth, though, and from my perspective, just as another Christian walking the earth very, very briefly, hopefully before being brought into eternity, the problem is not Donald Trump.
Donald Trump represents the end of a kind of political era, the era of the political personality or the anti personality politician, in the case of Keir Starmer.
It's over now.
There isn't someone else you can put in that office that is going to improve our condition.
We're all fallen.
We're all broken.
Lurid, vivid, colourful, powerful characters like Donald Trump.
Insignificant, grey, irrelevant characters like, you know, basically the rest of us when compared to him.
So.
We've got to stop believing in false idols, and that's been a pretty clear religious direction for a very, very, very long time indeed.
Here's Trump's response.
I mean, like he's attacking dear old Pope Leo, calling him weak and terrible for foreign policy, and says that he likes his brother better and that he was elected in a landslide, and that Obama's a better politician.
And in a way, sort of the type of discourse that we recognize, if we've, you know, let's face it, that pretty much the whole world follows Trump these days.
But what I'd like to point out to you from the book of Daniel here is this wicked prophecy man.
Check this out.
It's from Daniel 11.
See the prophet Daniel.
He dreams of, in his sort of vision that comes towards the end of the book, or at least it's after he's done, like, you know, a load of famous stuff, Lion's Den and them lads, Meshach, Shadrach, and Abednego have been tossed in that furnace only for there to be a fourth figure in there.
Daniel offers up this vision.
This is in 7, Daniel 7.
In his vision, he says, I saw the winds churning up the great sea.
Four great beasts, each different from the others, came up out of the sea.
The first was like a lion and it had the wings of an eagle.
That I saw as the combination of the British and American empires.
I watched until its wings were torn off and it was lifted from the ground so it stood on two feet like a human being.
This I see as the personification of the counterfeit god that is the evil one.
It stands on its feet like a human being.
Government, like, see when people say corporations have human rights?
You know, you've heard that argument?
Well, this is a bit like that, but for government.
And the mind of a human was given to it.
I consider that to be the false consciousness of AI.
Then he describes that another of these four great beastly entities is like a bear.
I assume that's one way of understanding Russia.
Certainly that emblem can be attached to it.
But the fourth vision, after a set of images, animal images, totemic images that seem to represent the East, is the one that frightens Daniel the most.
It was terrifying, frightening.
It had large iron teeth.
It crushed and devoured its victims and trampled underfoot what was ever left.
It was different from the former beasts.
It had 10 horns.
I'm really spending a lot of time, and let me know in the comments and chat.
And of course, both Dave and Jake and Joe have been Christian longer than I have, and I'll be interested in any interpretation of what horns mean.
I keep thinking about antennae and the capacity of antennae to conduct power.
Before me was another horn.
Now, this is really interesting and very graphic language.
Another horn, a little one, which came up from among them, and three of the first horns were uprooted before it.
This horn had eyes like the eyes of a human.
Like the eyes of a human being, and a mouth that spoke boastfully.
Then there's some prophecy that sounds like it's the return of the chosen one.
The Ancient of Days took his seat.
His clothing was as white as snow.
His hair was white like wool.
His throne was flaming with fire.
There are many references to Christ like figures and to God, how one might personify God the Father.
Elsewhere, Daniel, a great prophet who survived four different dynasties, beginning with Nebuchadnezzar and then his son, and even survived when there was a change of command, like when Darius, the king of Persia, over.
Took the power of Nebuchadnezzar, Daniel remains in a position of authority.
One of my favorite bits in Daniel is there's the bit that's after the writing of the wall, where Belshazzar, I think, is his name, the son of Nebuchadnezzar, sees like the figurative writing on the wall, which, along with Christ writing on the ground before the adulterous woman, is one of these extraordinary times.
And I guess the writing of the Ten Commandments.
I like it when God is legible and lapidary writing in stone before us.
I like these occasions.
Anyway, in that writing on the wall, you can tell that the court are shitting themselves, like the king's terrified.
He's got a load of concubines around.
They've been necking booze out of the goblets that have been stolen from the temple.
They're delighting in their sacrilegiousness, these lot are.
And I really, the way that Daniel, the book of Daniel, and Daniel himself, if he wrote it, depict these times is right cool because everyone seems like they're messed up, like everyone's had a real high old time, orgies, drinking.
Then the vibe has changed because of this writing on the wall.
And the writing on the wall basically says, your enemies are going to take over, you're finished, you're going to die.
And there's this amazing bit.
Where the king Belshazzar gets Daniel in and he's like, Listen, I'll look after you.
I'm going to get you robes.
I'm going to give you a necklace.
Revelatory Models for Enemies00:05:02
You're going to be powerful.
And the way that Daniel deals with him is like, Yeah, all right, mate.
Listen, this is what I don't need nothing from you.
This is how it's going to go down.
And Daniel knows that that guy is going to be dead in the morning.
Those of us that are aligned with and attuned to the supreme truths cannot be controlled by earthly power.
You will feel like you will be happy to be anointed and eat in the presence of your enemies.
You'll be cool with it because you'll know.
We ain't here long.
Our gaze must remain fixed on the joy of the hereafter.
This is just momentary suffering we're encountering.
Anyway, listen to this about the king.
It's a pretty condemnatory passage, which when I read it to Tucker the other day, he noted that it could be applied to the current hubris of the current world king.
Excuse me while I just kiss the sky.
um king version i remember i thought it was in daniel 10.
What piece are you looking for?
I'm going to look it up.
This is from Daniel 11.
The king will do as he pleases.
He will exalt and magnify himself above every god and will say unheard of things against the God of gods.
He will be successful until the time of wrath is completed, for what has been determined must take place.
He will show no regard for the gods of his ancestors.
It continues, of course, but I suppose it's easy to see those prophetic words as applicable to our time, and all true wisdom is by its nature atemporal, aspatial, because that's the character of God.
It's all happening all the time.
Everywhere, and it's our role to be able to tell you the truth as best we can beyond, inside, within, and around time.
It's our literal job.
It's our literal job to do that.
I forgot that for a while because I had a lot of pressure, but luckily that pressure has been relieved now.
So everything is good.
So we're living in, it seems, an apocalyptic age, and certainly from the revelatory sense, we always are living in a revelatory age.
People will come and go, they will die eventually.
All tyrants must die.
I remember Eric Hyde, all the great pythons, saying that from Monty Python, I mean.
And don't worry though, because it's all Going to be fine because God is absolutely, actually real.
I can tell you that for a certain fact.
Praise the Lord.
But that's just what I think.
Let me know what you think in the comments and chat.
If you don't have your copy of How to Become a Christian in Seven Days, then get one now.
We should do some sort of competition, don't you think?
Let's do some sort of competition.
In this competition, you have to give us a lot of money and we'll give you the book.
No, just give us what it costs.
Hold on, what does it cost?
I'm not going to keep no money from it, by the way, guys.
I'm going to do good things with it.
$32.99.
Oh, I might as well have just gone all the way up to $33.
One of my favourite.
Numbers there, because of the Lord and his lifespan.
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We're all using AI now, aren't we?
This probably isn't even actually really me.
It's like a diary business ideas, health questions, private thoughts.
Now, Sam Altman says ChatGPT can reference all your past conversations and get to know you over your life.
Thanks!
OpenAI has former NSA leadership on its board, is exploring ads, and even requires government ID for some models.
That should give you pause.
Well, if you've got nothing to hide, you've nothing to fear.
Well, just hope that you never ever do anything that could ever bother anyone.
All you have to do is live a life of totally irrelevant and you should be fine.
But what if you want more?
What if you want to participate?
What if you want to be a conduit for divinity?
What if you believe that there's an Armageddon coming, a great big holy battle?
What are you going to do?
Sit quietly, put your ID into some digital code.
No, Fight back, baby.
We've already learned too late what social media was doing with our data.
AI is worse because people share far more intimate information.
Yeah.
On top of that, most AI tools censor harmless prompts and quietly steer what you're allowed to ask or think.
That's why I've been using Venice.
That's right, Venice.
Venice is a private uncensored AI platform, Dave.
Your prompts stay on your device, not their servers.
No surveillance, no data harvesting, no moral scolding.
You should not have said that.
It uses powerful open source models, including Venice Uncensored, which refuses prompts only about 2% of the time compared to the majority on other platforms.
You can switch between models, generate images other AIs won't touch, analyze documents, even create custom AI characters.
all without handing over your id if you want ai without censorship and without surveillance go to venice.ai forward slash stay free and use the code stay free for 20 off venice pro links in the description and pinned in the comment and i'm going to be using it because i'm always creating content what you want to do though is organize systems of opposition to this corrupt and disgusting centralized tyranny that we're all forced to fight right now stay free Well,
Lawrence Fox, my brother actor over in the UK, has said the N word in public.
Massey put this in here, I think, because he likes stuff like this.
Lawrence Fox and Racism00:04:40
Myself, I find racism a bit awkward and embarrassing, and I'd prefer it if it stopped.
Nevertheless, this is Rumble.
I mean, let's take it further.
Let's go a lot further.
I think we should all be able to say the N word.
Go on, then.
Nigger.
Oh.
I think we should all be able to. say it I don't think it should just be reserved to one group of people okay I think if we're gonna have a word then everyone should be able to say it okay let's see who you will say will you say that to anyone are you do you mind the context I'm not interested in going and upsetting people and winding them up but I don't believe there should be one word that's reserved for one group of people I think that's that is wrong There you go.
Lawrence Fox saying the N word there.
I mean, I've told you before why I stopped saying that word.
People kept beating me up.
What's this one for the citizens?
Spain's Prime Minister says the legalisation of over half a million migrants will be approved today, calling it an act of justice.
That would be popular.
And the IMF has just downgraded Britain's economic prospects, making it the worst economy out of all the major economies of the world.
Breaking news.
The International Monetary Fund has downgraded Britain's economic prospects more than any G7 country in its latest update on the state of the global economy.
It's a fresh blow for Chancellor Rachel Reeves, with the financial institutions slashing the UK's growth forecast from 1.3% to 0.8%.
It also follows a similar downgrade from the OECD.
Just last month, the IMF says the UK is also set to see higher inflation in the months ahead.
Price rises set to average at 3.2% across 2020.
But I don't like their league table, the IMF.
I've never liked the IMF, the International Monetary Fund.
Who are all these people?
Israel have been called the New Third Reich by Konrad Berkowitz, who's a Polish politician.
The attack on Israel on the Blisk Wschod is that Polish people are going to be able to get paliwa.
But how do you get children, who have been killed many times more than during the whole war in Ukraine?
Żydzi stosują zakazaną bombę fosforową, która pochłania tlen z powietrza i doprowadza do ich śmierci przez uduszenie.
Więcej dym z tej bomby dostaje się do płuc i pali je od środka.
One duszą się i palą się od środka jednocześnie.
Kilkadziesiąt tysięcy kobiet i dzieci.
Ale jak jakiemuś dziecku się poszczęści i się nie udusi, to biały fosfor przyklei się do policzka, do rączki i wypala się przez tkanki do kości.
Nie da się tego zgasić, więc od tego dziecku.
Izrael does not do it in our own eyes.
Izrael does not do it in our own eyes.
Izrael is now a Trade Rzesza.
Izrael is now a Trade Rzesza.
Izrael has to be like that.
Izrael has to be like that.
Thank you.
Pan poseł Maciej, and we are going to go to the next one.
A UK wholesaler has reported shocking price surges seen over the course of one week.
One week!
What's going on in our crazy country?
This time last week, a box of broccoli like that, I paid £9.90.
So, six kilos of broccoli last Friday. cost me £9.90.
You buy 20 boxes on a fry.
Today, this broccoli, same weight, Spanish broccoli, cost me £24 a box.
So, 15 quid a box or so dearer than this time last week.
This time of year, you'd expect to pay somewhere between £6.50, £7.00 a box for tomatoes.
This morning, £20.
Ordinarily, you'd be paid somewhere around, let's say £9, £9, £10 ordinarily.
This morning, £17.50.
12 in a box.
This time of year, I would expect the normal price for something like that would be £6.60, £7.20 a box, so costing us about £60p a head.
That's what I would normally expect to be paying.
This morning, that cost £1.10 per head.
If you're watching this anywhere other than Rumble, like YouTube or X, click the link in the description.
Addiction and Spiritual Sanity00:15:35
It's time now for Crack On with Dave, Russell, and Joe.
This podcast is not allied with nor endorsed by any particular 12 step fellowship.
Although we may reference their literature, we do not represent these organizations.
The primary purpose of this podcast is to provide additional support to men and women who walk the path of recovery.
We share our personal experience of the 12 steps in the hope that others can benefit.
Take what is useful, disregard what isn't.
Apologies in advance for any offence caused.
Any other problems, take them to your God and your sponsor.
Crack on!
Let us crack on and ignore the irony that I'm literally attached to a drip.
It says that this week we're discussing interaction.
In Crack On, we talk about recovery and principles of recovery.
The important thing I think about recovery is that it can be applied to the world.
You're addicted to nothing more than reality as you see it.
It's like you're consuming yourself in front of you.
We've got to decouple ourselves from these mad addictions.
We've got to recognize that until we enter into the spiritual world, we're dead indeed.
I picked this out.
So we have ceased fighting anyone or anything, even alcohol, for by this time, sanity would have returned.
We will seldom be interested in liquor.
If tempted, we recoil from it as we would from a hot flame.
We react sanely and normally, and we will find that this has happened automatically.
We will see that our new attitude toward liquor has been given us without any thought or effort on our part.
It comes.
That is the miracle of it.
It just comes, rather.
We are not fighting it.
Neither are we avoiding temptation.
We feel as though we had been placed in a position of neutrality, safe and protected.
We have not even sworn off.
Instead, the problem has been removed.
It does not exist for us.
We are neither cocky nor are we afraid.
That is our experience.
That is how we react so long as we keep in fit spiritual condition.
It goes on, but the gist of it is I picked that out because I thought, well, I mean, it says you get restored to sanity, right?
And that's like step two.
I mean, is that just in terms of alcohol?
Like, What does it really mean to be sane?
Do you know what I mean?
Because I personally feel like I'm always going to be mental.
Do you know what I mean?
Like, I know that I've been restored to sanity in terms of, like, I know I can't drink and it never looks even remotely sort of tempting or nothing.
But some days I do think, fuck me, I'm still mad, like, you know?
But then could that insanity drive you back out the door to a state where you think it's a good idea to drink again?
And can that happen through, like, you know, like that says in the literature resentment, fear, and all that kind of stuff?
Don't you think like a lot of people park at a level of recovery that's a kind of placid passivity where, like, we maybe don't drink or use, but the thing that's holding your life together isn't a spiritual connection?
Yeah, I see that a lot.
Or they get, they retard their spiritual growth, they like cap their spiritual growth in it, and it's just become, they may have some of that, but.
I don't know.
I find most of them cross addict in some sort of way to something else.
I mean, it's got to go somewhere.
And it's either, for me, it's either going to be spiritual or it's going to be some sort of sin.
It's almost better when you, like, see, like you worked a lot in like halfway houses and treatment centers than you, Dave.
Like, that first bit when you stop drinking and taking drugs, you've got this kind of almost, well, they call it pink cloud in a lot of the fellowships and groups, a pink cloud moment.
But like, there's a kind of euphoria.
At having been pulled out of it and that you're sort of still alive.
Do you know?
Do you remember that?
And like, so when you're working with people like that, like, and I remember it from my own for when it happened to me, there's a sort of a rawness and a liveness.
And then you think, oh, well, actually, I'm okay.
And you might drift back into, well, there's all sorts of things.
You could try drinking, and some people seem to be able to drink somewhat moderately, or obvious things, porn, food, smoking.
Like, I actually think that when you look at the literature of the 12th century, Of the 12 step programs, like the big book of Alcoholics Anonymous, I'm saying, but even the 12 and 12 of Alcoholics Anonymous, what becomes clear is that the whole thing, and someone read an important section of the book, the bit where the 12 steps are described and a vision is given to you afterwards.
What becomes clear is that, to your point earlier, Joe, it ain't that we're just stopping drinking, we're stopping being the person that has to drink.
That's really what I think is happening.
And To do that, every single one of your attachments will one by one be chalked off.
Now, AA is only about alcohol, NA is only about drugs, and ad infinitum, the gambling fellowship is about that, and the debt fellowship is about that, and even the codependency and the Al Anon.
I suppose it starts to get a little bit deeper when you're talking about relationships because then you're forced to look at.
Oh, wow, I've got these unconscious expectations of every relationship.
I'm using people, I'm using them.
That person, I've given them a job to make me feel a certain way.
And if they don't do it, I'll punish them for it or I'll abandon them.
And I believe that where the program becomes truly magical is where your entry point through alcohol and alcoholism becomes the acknowledgement that you're actually continually trying to achieve states through stimulation.
Stimulation of, I have to go there every morning and do this or that.
I remember one of my mates saying, You're addicted to the cure because I was going to a bunch of 12 step meetings the whole time.
But really, what we're trying to get to, we're trying to get to a point of absolute connection to God that cannot be disrupted by any external stimulant that no one can take you out of.
And now, as a Christian, I'll say, Nothing will make you let go of Christ's hand, so people can agitate you.
A really good example of it from a non 12 step perspective is the movie Mr. Rogers, starring Tom Hanks as the Brilliant Mr. Rogers, American children's entertainer, I guess you'd call him, but also, I guess, evangelist.
There's a moment where the antagonistic reporter whose relationship with Mr. Rogers makes up most of the film is trying to push him over the edge by bringing up his difficult relationship with his son.
And you see, brilliantly acted by Tom Hanks, a moment where he sort of winces a little bit and before returning to a loving state, that Mr. Rogers was such a beautiful and successful entertainer because he.
Practiced Christianity, how Christianity should be practiced, must be practiced in the present moment.
In the present moment.
And see, I recognized the other day that money, if you, the relationship between alcohol and alcoholism can be investigated very in an interesting way through money.
Because what is money really?
What is it?
What is it that money does in your life?
How is it that money functions in your psyche?
It's power in a way.
And certainly, I can tell you what my relationship with money was, is like, I want to be left alone.
Leave me alone.
And that's what money is for me.
And because I've been poor, and I remember being around people even poorer, like drug addicts that are street homeless and are begging to get their next fix.
I would notice, my God, their poverty, it's actually eating their body.
They're so poor that they're sleeping in the street, their face, and they're like one guy had no eye and he had an amputation and he had ulcers.
And obviously those things are caused by heroin.
But if you were taking that much heroin and you were rich, you'd be able to do it in a pretty cool way.
And now I realised that for me, like not, I just had no more ability to drink or take drugs because the consequences were getting too fast, too rapid.
And now where I live is in a state where.
I've been given the tool and the language of addiction, but I recognize that it was always foundational for a deeper spiritual experience for me coming to Christ.
I'm holding up my own book because obviously I'm promoting it, but really the book I should be holding up is this one, that it moved me to a point where you have to, everything in front of you is from God.
Everything, like moment by moment.
So when you get into the coders and the Alanons, you know that that madness ain't going, that madness is like a rod and staff from Psalm 23.
You're going to be guided continually if you remain in the right state.
Like it can't do anything except get deeper and deeper, almost until there's nothing of you there.
There's not a point where you're.
I think a lot of people practice 12 step stuff until they get a nice girlfriend or boyfriend or a wife or some money or whatever.
And that's very tempting.
I know I did it.
What I did was I'll stop drinking and taking drugs until I'm famous.
And then I. Realized in the interim, oh, you can never drink or take drugs.
But what I didn't let go of was the addict mindset.
Like, I needed something to make me feel okay.
And for me, it obviously became sex for a long, long while.
And like, it's stripping it away one way, but gets subtler and subtler, don't you think?
Yeah.
I mean, I think in what Joe read was, was that's nine step promises or 10 step promises?
10 step promises.
Yeah.
I mean, at this point, when you're first going through them, when you talk about sanity and you're, you, It's sanity with regards to drinking.
You know, it's like when you're first going through it, it's just the fact that it still blows me away 25 years later that the fact that I don't like, I don't think about alcohol.
I don't, I don't have this like, I mean, it was such a solution for me for everything.
I couldn't imagine my life with alcohol or without, you know, it's like I, it blows my mind that something that was impossible to beat was just taken away just by doing these steps.
It still is pretty miraculous.
But I think when you're first going through it, it's about that.
But then, like everyone, like the girl we talked to from the driver we had at Tucker's, right?
He was in recovery.
A lot of our drivers have been in recovery.
Yeah, they're always in recovery.
It's pretty wild.
But he had a girl that just recently relapsed, and we called her up on the phone.
And really, primarily, Russell.
Push her to go to a meeting that day.
And, you know, she's been through it.
Like you could tell.
But, like with her, it's just the fact of, hey, get there, get plugged in, get a sponsor, start doing it.
Just do these basics.
Just follow some direction.
Are you willing to go through these steps?
Right.
In the beginning and then getting through them.
Then, when things return, then it's like we get distracted.
And then we start thinking, okay, I need the car, the girl, whatever it else is.
I need these external things.
Which, in a lot of cases, if they don't come for a little while, that could be a good thing.
You know, and so I think at first it is about not drinking at all, but really it's not even about getting to, for me, it's not about getting to a state that I'm like, man, the whole day I nailed it today.
Not once did I get in self, not once.
I've never had a day like that.
I always, it's not about perfection, it's about growth.
And so there's this momentum.
You know, one of the most powerful things in business is not having, You know, this killer quarter with all these cells.
It's about a team that's building momentum.
It's the most powerful thing is when you feel like you're on this momentum.
And when you're on a spiritual path and you're gaining momentum and you're growing.
I mean, that's what I think of when you do a 10th step.
I don't think of, oh shit, I didn't, another day that I didn't, you know, that I got in self or another day that, you know, I was dishonest or I whatever.
It's another day.
Instead, it's like, okay, here's how I can be better, better, better.
You know, like here's how I can be not just better.
This is how I can grow closer.
This is how I can get more free, more free, more free.
Like, guys miss that.
Like, having Jamie Winchip come down and talking about identity through self.
I mean, there wasn't, I don't think there's anything that he necessarily said that I thought, oh my God, I have no idea what he's talking about.
Some new concept.
It's still the basics in some ways, but it's a different angle.
And getting to identity through fear and looking at fears like, man, I'm excited for that.
Because I mean, it's growth.
It's growth.
I want to grow closer.
I want to get more free.
He's helped me, man.
Like, he's helped me because I had a similar experience with Jamie, or at least encounter to what you're describing, in so much as the idea that you have an identity in Christ and an identity in the world is really clever.
In a way, though, it's completely the same as addict self and recovery self.
It's the same concept, but because it's in Christ, that obviously brings it to a level of focus that's so sharp, I think.
And like when Jamie says, You know, now Jamie, interestingly, doesn't drink and went to AA 12 Steps, excuse me, for a while, but like didn't keep doing it.
And I'm always interested when someone doesn't keep doing it because I have to keep doing it.
I feel like my addiction part of me, like a mad wolf, the addiction part of me, that's from Brass Eye, so it's very sort of mad reference.
You should watch that thing.
Like the addiction part of me is so sort of like dominant, volatile, I don't know, that I need something in place all the time.
I don't think I'm always, and also I like it.
I like being around other drug addicts and alcoholics.
I like them.
I don't like them in my life, I'll tell you that.
But I like them in the rooms, and I like being kind to them and whatever.
But when they're in your life, I'm like, you're crazy, man.
I just can't take that crap.
But what I think Jamie does that's amazing is I'm almost sort of, it's weird because I don't want to do him a disservice because he's obviously brilliant and he's done something brilliant.
I already feel like, yeah, all right, like I've got this thing where I think we've talked about before.
As soon as I realize a new thing, I'm almost immediately irritated that other people don't know it.
Like, that's in that exact same second.
I'm like, this is obvious, isn't it?
Come on, why are we here?
I'm like, you didn't know this yesterday.
No, never mind all that.
Let's get on with it.
Letting Go of Control00:13:02
Like, now, something like your identity in Christ is so obvious.
Like, when he did that speech, which he outlines in his new book, The Worldview New Book, which we did on the show, you should check out the show on Monday if you've not seen it.
Was it Monday?
Yeah, it was Monday.
And this will be Friday.
So, yeah, check that out.
And like, when in that he talks about Harvard and giving a talk at Harvard, and now I've worked out how he does it.
He does it like this.
He goes, Who in this room hears voices in their head telling them they're not good enough and that you're worthless and you're never going to succeed and that you're going to fail and everything's going to go wrong?
And all these Harvard undergrads put their hand up and he goes, Good, right.
So, we all acknowledge that we hear voices in our head then.
Who has a voice in their head that tells them you're beautiful?
You're enough.
You're perfect.
I love you.
You're exactly as I made you to be.
You're doing so well.
No one puts their hand up.
None of us have that voice.
Now, I'd come across a comparable idea.
Myself, and it's much more fuzzy and confused to hear it is.
I was like, Come into Christ.
It's like, you know how you've always got a voice in your head that you're talking to all the time?
Well, eventually, that negative, destructive voice, eventually, that becomes Christ, and you can hear Christ talking.
And then in the end, that will be the only voice.
Like the other voice will have gone entirely.
And that's real similar to that bridegroom stuff that is at the beginning of John, when John the Baptist says, I must become lesser, he must become greater.
When the friend of the bridegroom hears the bridegroom's voice, And also, by the way, the whole time he's saying this, he's the best man at a wedding.
He's not even the groom, he's not the bride, he's not anyone.
John the Baptist put himself in a pretty humble position there for someone that our Lord says the greatest person that's ever lived.
And I started to feel like my own understanding.
So when Jamie puts it in them terms, like and said, right now, tell me all of the things that your negativity tells you.
Now, any of us that are addicts, we're black belts of that crap.
We've been doing it for a long time, we know how to talk about it.
What people are surprised at with me still to this day is that.
I'll tell you in real time what I'm feeling and like the bad things I'm feeling.
And I even did it with Jamie.
I mean, Jamie, I'm having trouble recommending you to like friends because I feel like I'm going to sort of get squeezed out and shit.
And I told him it.
And he was like, That's an unbelievable confession.
Well done.
You know, and like, so he's good at getting you to like own it.
And then I said to him, I think I get into situations where people think that it's the substance of what I'm saying is the problem.
Rather than the phenomena that I'm saying, I think people think, wow, this guy's crazy.
I'm not crazy.
I know myself so much better than you that it seems like craziness.
Like you're not in the same leagues.
And so now I'm moving into a part of it.
Like he's given me a different kind of language and a different kind of understanding of it.
And also the exercise where it's like, now who does he say you are?
And like, do you notice in that bit with Peter, by the way, when he says it, he calls him Simon at the beginning of it.
Like he says, Simon, what a fuck's up.
And then, like, he's, then Simon says, Who do you think, you know, when our Lord asked him, Who do you say I am?
He goes, You're the son of the living God.
Like, he goes, Yes, Peter.
Like, he goes, It's like, that's when you are who I made you to be.
Identity.
Like, that's, and like, when me and you are communicating, Joe, I'm like, I've always can recognize that's not, that's recovery Joe, that's addict Joe, addict Joe.
Like, but like, it's not to say that recovery Joe isn't funny.
Recovery Joe is really funny.
Like, when we like him too.
I like them both.
By the way, the addict Joe, that guy, you know, we've got to watch out for him.
Same with all of us.
The same, you know, if I run things from my.
Now, I think the problem is with like, if you get sort of successful, say, in some way, is you can build a little.
It's sort of a bubble or enclave or even a community around you where you're not called on your stuff.
And I think that's what happened.
There's so many things about these false allegations that direct me to truth.
So many things.
Like when they say enabled, right?
Enabling to do things that are not illegal is not good, but it's not a crime.
It's like, you know, you've got loads of people.
Like every famous person has that.
If you ever spent time around a famous person or maybe in a rich person or maybe even the most powerful person in your family, people won't tell your dad or whoever it is.
Just shut the fuck up, man.
That's wrong.
Like, you know, like people live in these little bubbles that no one challenges them on and they think that they're powerful.
Yeah.
But we ain't.
No, we, in counseling, we used to call it, we'd say disabling.
You know, you say you're enabling someone, we'd say you're disabling them.
For parents, a lot of times it's used as like, you know, they're giving them money or they're, you know, not punishing them when they know they're using drugs.
And we'd say you're disabling them because you're disabling them.
From having to learn lessons in life, right?
You're disabling them from growing.
We'll get disabled from growing because no one's calling us out.
We're not.
And I think for some people, it's harder than others.
I mean, I think when you've had some success, like you have Russell and stuff like that, you have to seek it out.
You got to invite it with others.
You got to put yourself, and it's not for everyone to.
I mean, you don't just open yourself up for just every random person to call you out on.
You know, your intimate stuff, but like you have to have a crew around you that feels free to call you out and say, Hey, Joe, I don't think you're doing good.
You seem like you're struggling.
You seem like you're resentful.
Are you building a resentment towards that?
Is that something you know?
I'm doing great.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You do.
And I think you got to know, you have to do that.
You have to trust that the people that you're doing that with really care for you.
Yeah.
There's not been a lot of trust.
I'm not going to trust someone that I don't think really actually cares for me.
Yeah, it's very hard.
I'm really realizing there's a strong connection between trust and control.
You know how they say, is it in the Bitcoin world or whatever, don't trust, verify?
And for me, it's always been don't trust, control.
Like, I don't like to be in situations that I'm not in control of.
And because there aren't that many situations that I can control, I don't go into very many.
I just stay in a very particular set of situations because it's like, you can't be in control.
Like, you know, I don't like sport or dance.
There's so many things.
I'm like, I'm not going to do that because I can't be in control of it.
Just living it on like a sort of in a yeah, one square of one circle on a twister board rather than sort of go out and chant stuff because trust is hard.
You'll always, he'll always lead you, the Lord, to the very thing, to the very thing you'll be shown.
What is it?
Like, you know, it's like, oh, no, man.
That's why the same situation keeps bloody well coming up because this time, are you going to do it different this time?
No, all right.
Another five years.
You're going to do it different this time?
Another five years.
Like, in the end, it's like, are you going to let go of control?
Are you gonna let go of control?
But I, and it's weird because all of them, the step three, I'd call them type problem step three, made a decision to turn your will in your life over to the care of God as you understood God, all have this legitimacy to them.
Well, how am I gonna get anything done?
How am I gonna do this?
Okay, you know, if I don't do this, then what's gonna happen?
And I know it's, I don't quite know, and I wonder if you've got anything on this, know how to navigate divine action or sanctioned action or true identity action.
Versus action outside of, and also, you know, especially when you're an entrepreneur, especially when you own your own business, when you are the boss, like you have to make things happen.
Versus, okay, is this from God or is this me playing God?
It's very funny that my first shot at it, you know, like if you're an entertainer, you can't infantilization is diriger, like they will make you like a baby, they make you like a baby.
It's sort of like a king baby, as they would say in 12 steps.
Like, you know, people will bring you everything and do stuff and all of that.
And you sort of see it everywhere.
And it's very, it seems very legitimate because this is how it's legitimate.
If I do a thing that no one else can do, then I should spend all of my time focused on that.
Because what's the point of me cleaning the car?
What's the point of me?
What's the point of me?
Whatever it is.
Because someone else can do that.
And then I'll do more of this thing I'm good at.
There's actually a redeemed version of that, for sure, isn't there?
There's a version of it.
It's like, what's the point in you going through all these accounts?
You're not very good at accountancy.
And why, instead of that, why don't you go and write a book and we might generate some revenue?
I mean, that's a sort of a good idea.
But when it goes wrong, it becomes like, I'm not going to do anything except that.
And then it becomes very, for me, it became very, when I'm thinking about it, I sort of was also, I want to say lazy.
I've always been, in a way, a quite hard working person.
There was this George Bernard Shaw quote that I encountered quite young where it says, A true artist would rather that his mother starved and his children were sold than work at something that is not his art.
Right?
And I was thinking, I like that.
Like, you know, like you just won't do it.
But, like, you know, sort of like, so, but me, when I'm in my thing, like, you just got to go and go and go until it's done, eh?
And then sometimes I do literally crack from exhaustion.
But those kind of things can, I think, facilitate the wrong mindset.
I don't know, like, is that true of everyone?
We're all doing that.
We're all sort of like refusing to do what we're supposed to do because it's what's in front of us.
What you're supposed to do is what's in front of you.
It's very so, like, why I get like a joke is, like I said in the book, I think he's as mad as me in the way that I'm mad.
Like a sort of an intense type of madness.
So when I'm talking to Joe, like, I'm like, no, that's crazy.
Why would you do that?
And then I sort of immediately think, well, what do you do that's like that?
And I say, so if things are obviously improving, like those two qualifications are meaningful qualifications.
So I would like the HGV license.
That means Joe can drive any kind of lorry and like a truck and the CPA, CPS thing, close protection.
That's two sort of good, even in just worldliness, streams of improvement.
And I know, because I know you well, what the voice in your head was.
Will tell you about where your life is and what your life is like and where you should be and why that doesn't mean anything.
But it's momentum, Joe.
Like that's momentum, you know?
Even if you didn't even use them.
I have two degrees I don't even use at all, but like it was momentum for me.
And I think that's good.
I do think, I think of in the steps where, um, I think of where it's, I don't think you're trying to, I don't want to say this.
I don't think you're, it's about the motive.
It can be the exact same action, but the motive behind it.
Am I, it talks about this God sense is like a sixth sense.
This God consciousness is like a sixth sense.
And so, like, you could do the exact same thing.
You could, Automate out, you know, have other people doing other aspects of your job because that's not what you're good at and you're specialized, right?
It's something that few people can do.
So that's what you're going to do.
But if you're coming at a motive of, I'm not going to do that because I'm playing God in that sense, I'm refusing to do that.
I'm not doing it out of pride and ego, or I'm doing that out of faith.
I think that's the difference now.
In practice, I don't always do that.
I think you kind of know if God's directing your thinking or not, then if you're like being honest with yourself and you're having your time in the morning of prayer and everything else and doing all the other suggestions within the program, like speaking to other addicts on a daily basis, connecting with your gratitude and all that kind of stuff.
And like it says, naturally your thinking becomes more on the plane of sort of inspiration and whatnot rather than divorced from selfish and self seeking motives.
Yeah.
Faith Over Pride in Action00:13:13
Yeah.
When you're in that state, you're headed for trouble, innit?
You know?
I'm always being given fit.
I mean, I've been given my whole body, my whole life, my mind, the ability to communicate.
I mean, everything we have, that's it.
We've got the wrong mindset.
We think about life, we approach life from entirely the wrong angle.
The first time someone said to me, What do you mean, your life?
I was like, Oh, shit.
What do you mean, your time?
What do you mean?
Where did you get it?
What did you do?
Did you do something?
No, right.
Everything you've got, you've been given.
So.
Now, get on and serve.
You know, it's very, very, very, very, we are very broken.
We are very broken.
I was going to ask you, right, in regards to that reading, yeah, so we react sanely and normally and all that in terms of drink.
So, to you and Dave Russell, right, because you're, how many years are you now?
I'm 23, Dave's 25.
23 and 25.
Do you remember the last time where you looked at a drink or a drug and you thought, I fucking want that?
I really want it, but I know I can't have it.
Like, when was the last time?
How long did it take for that to go completely for you?
And do you remember the last time that you had a thought like that?
Because I remember we were talking about it the other day, which made me think of this reading when I was in Brazil and I called you Russell.
I remember cold beers in that, in them cold beers.
On that little boat.
Like, because I was just at the point of, Having done the formalities of step 10 through the book, step 11, read it, and we've done a little prayer after a meeting and that kind of stuff.
And then, you know, putting my hand up to sponsor for step 12.
And I've gone off to Brazil for six weeks, almost with a mindset of like, I've done it now.
I'm all right.
Let's see what's out there.
Maybe I'll find a wife.
Anyway, I've been out there in Rio and I was getting to meetings.
I found two English speaking meetings.
It was pretty cool.
I was having a nice time meeting people in recovery and that.
And then I've gone off on like little excursions.
I went to this town, it's a few hours away from Rio, then a place called Parachi, like an old town.
And then from there, I went out on like a little excursion to these islands called Iagrangi.
And it was the Brazilian Independence Day weekend.
So it was like party time on these islands.
And I didn't know that, right?
And no one spoke English.
Well, I think like one or two people, maybe.
And I've gone out on this boat with these people and we were out on it all day.
I thought, you're meant to do stuff like this when you're away.
So I'll do it.
But I felt so like on my own.
And like this guy was drinking these ice cold beers and he had a big box of them full of ice.
And they were like little slim cans.
I remember thinking, oh, they must be real cold in that ice, the little slim cans.
And I was just watching him sipping on them.
And then by the end of the day, where I was like gone so like within myself and not being able to connect and speak to people properly, I was thinking, he must be drunk by now.
And then I'm looking at me and he's even pissed.
And I thought, I wonder what his wife's like with him when he gets home.
Will he be drinking whiskey when he gets home?
Does she have to beg him to stop?
Why do you always do this?
Just leave it alone.
I can't fuck off.
And then I thought, I want them beers.
I got off that boat.
I rang you Russell.
I left that island.
I went back to Rio.
I rang my mates in AA.
I got straight back in and.
I didn't drink, and I've been all right ever since.
But that was when I realized fuck, man, I can't leave any of this stuff.
I need to do everything daily prayer, meditation, contact other alcoholics, get to meetings as much as I can, and be as useful as I can to other alkies.
I can't, I ain't ever going to live a normal life.
Anyway, that was the last time.
I ever really wanted to, although I knew I couldn't have it, I fucking wanted it.
I really wanted it.
You remember, Dave?
It's been a while.
To be honest, it's not like a flex or anything, like a spiritual flex of, oh, it's been a while since.
It really has.
I think some too is, I mean, like, first 10 years, I probably would have like, Certain moments, when it would begin to come up, it would start to scare me.
I remember that early on.
It's like I would start getting spiritually sick.
I would just not do the shit I needed to do.
I wanted to spend time with God, wasn't going to me, wasn't getting plugged in at all, wasn't helping anyone, and then would just get selfish.
And if I do that for a little amount of time, then all of a sudden I would have like a somewhat stronger urge or thought.
Not that I, I mean, after going through all 12, like I really did have a spiritual awakening, but I mean, like it says, I mean, we have a reprieve, which it isn't a cure, you know.
You know, you guys know that, you know, they use that for people on death row, right?
Like that's what the word reprieve is really like, you know, you're not going to die today, you know, but you're on death row.
You're, you know, it'll be maybe tomorrow.
And so we got to do these things to do a reprieve, but.
Yeah, like I've had it throughout my sobriety for sure, especially in those first years that I would have that come up.
And it would hit me at times that I would not expect it necessarily either.
I'd be feeling okay, and all of a sudden, but I wasn't doing anything spiritually.
I love altered states.
I've always loved altered states.
I still love altered states.
Sure.
This THC free CBD.
That, Ivy.
I'm still negotiating in a weird way.
I also, with me, a married man, as a father as well, I have to be very, very aware of my inclinations towards female beauty.
I have to really sort of be aware of it.
You're aware of that beauty, aren't you?
You're aware of it.
Good because two things started to happen a while ago.
One was like I started to understand in a kind of a Lazarus way flesh decays, you know.
And I also, as a father, began to see the daughter vibes of women, you know.
But like I know I could be like I'm cautious around that.
And I think it's a sort of a prudent caution because when I see Radhanath Swami, who'd been a monk all them years, shake hands with my wife, embrace me, I'm like, wow, man, they take that.
Seriously, I take it seriously.
Like, there is a dip, there is a charge, there is an energy.
It's real, it's not pretend.
When's the last time you actually saw alcohol or drugs or like had an actual.
The thing that came back when Joe asked the question was like, there's heroin, it's always heroin.
One time, I think I've told this before, I was doing something for New Musical Express, a cool magazine in the UK around music, and I was doing something for them before I got proper famous, but I was a bit famous.
And Pete Doherty out of the Libertines was very sort of cool.
Heroin addict and brilliant, brilliant musician.
I went into the toilet with him and held his spoon while he was cooking up.
The smell, the smell, I remember thinking, Oh man.
And then my mate Lucy, God rest her soul, when she would come around our house and she would have to use in our house, you know, like in our little children around in our little country cottage, she'd have to sort of pop off to the guest house and bang up.
And I like when I'm around the paraphernalia of it, like.
What I have to do more of is literally sit and be with Christ.
You know, I know you've got the rosary there, Johan.
You'd like to do the rosary.
Sometimes for me, any form of rote prayer can not be what I need.
Like, say, even I know I've memorized, as it says in our literature, I've memorized Lord's Prayer, St. Francis' Prayer, Step Three Prayer, Step Seven Prayer, and another prayer Tony Robbins gave me.
I know them by heart.
And when on a good day when I'm doing them, I feel them.
I feel like they relieve me of the bondage of self.
That I may better do thy will, take away my difficulties, that victory over them may bear witness to those I would help of thy power, thy love, and thy way of life.
You know, I feel it.
But, like, what I feel like, you know, see what heroin will do is unloop you from yourself, the part of yourself that's endlessly worrying and irritating to be in.
Like, that sort of feeling of a valve, like, and like, ah, and like that, man, I'll never forget that first time, man.
I'll never forget that first time of like just laying down as always on a bathroom floor and like, oh my God, this is amazing.
Why isn't everyone doing this all the time?
That's what I thought.
Why isn't everyone doing this all the time?
There's nothing better than this.
It's so comfortable, so easy.
I forget all the times it made me puke up and it never really worked and all of that and the itchiness and the kicky legs and the withdrawal and all those things.
You know, obviously, in the end, everyone stops because the consequences make you stop.
And it, like, whatever your drug, you stop because the consequences, you have to.
And all you don't, you die.
You know, like, the consequences start going like that.
It gets like a noose tightens in it.
And you're like, nah.
But otherwise, you still do it.
You know, like, but that's the one, like, just the smell, man.
The smell and the feeling of relief that's even better than sleep or dreams.
And I guess, really, what it points to, like, an arrow, Is you can't have, you can't be living in a life that's so painful for you that that's preferable.
You have to address what are these, what is this pain you're in?
That sounds really nice the way he described it, or it was making me want it.
I've never thought of it.
Think of it, I've felt that like not immediately, like heroin or alcohol or any other drug, but I get this similar response spiritually.
Just like in even think you, this is one thing I think that is good to mention about what you've you do, Russell, or we do together.
I mean, we'll confess with each other, even like we'll be somewhere and and you know, just thoughts that you're having, and we'll get back in the plane or we'll get back on the road and just being able to go, Oh man, I need to get this out and just sharing it.
Um, not even not even.
Confronting or anything like that, just putting it out there, just going, I'm getting this out of my head.
I'm not gonna rumorate on it.
But I hope we're not ending the show on a ringing endorsement for recreational heroin.
See what I was gonna say, yeah.
In like CA meetings, you men are like, do all that bit, and then like, you get everyone like feeling it, and then you go, but it's not like that today.
And then they did a little, like, everything's good today.
I'm not going to die of it.
I was obsessed with drugs before I even took them, weren't you?
I knew that they were saying about drugs.
I'm going to be a drug addict, I can tell.
Like, when I was really young, yeah.
I like the sound of all this.
This is what it's all about.
Even things that were warnings, I liked them.
Like, when the police came around and showed us drugs at school, I was like, this is fucking brilliant.
Where do I get it?
Like, there was nothing people could say to me.
That didn't make things like, you know, when like in a fag packet, they show you a picture of a fetus or dirty teeth or something.
Like, you know, with heroin, they're always trying to tell you how bad it is.
I think it sounds brilliant.
I don't know what you're all about.
I'm not interested in your counter arguments.
It's mad.
I was in the shop the other day, yeah, and I was looking at all the beers and all that.
Just that, like, you notice, don't you?
Because they're all on an end aisle.
You know, there's like promotional stuff on an end aisle, like Easter eggs or, you know, advent calendars for Christmas or whatever.
In this shop, it was all crates of beer, crates of Stella, Heineken, like, you know.
And different brands and that.
And you can get pissed out of your head for like £6.
And that video we saw earlier, mate, he's paying £6 for a fucking little box of lettuces these days.
It's mad, isn't it?
So they're managing to keep the price of beer down and spirits and whatever else.
And that matters.
That's dumb.
Yeah, that's what they want.
They want us all drugged up and drunk and arguing with one another and fighting on the streets like animals and idiots.
And sometimes that's as good as we can offer ourselves as well.
More of the Same00:01:09
All right, well, let's wrap it up this week with.
A simple prayer that drugs actually, if you're a drug addict, you shouldn't take drugs.
If you aren't a drug addict, they're pretty good.
Same as alcohol.
Like, all right, so let's not do drugs now.
Well, thank you very much for joining us for Crack On with Dave, Joe, and Russell.
Thank you for that introductory music.
Remember, you lot, don't take drugs if you are a drug addict.
We will be back on Monday with a conversation with Tucker Carlson.
If you've been interested in the way that the war is unfolding and the MACA movement is fragmenting, then this is the conversation I think that will give you the most insight.
I reckon I only talk 15% of the time.
So it's going to be a different type of episode.
All right, you lot.
I love you.
See you next week for more of the same, not for more of the different.
Till then, if you can, stay free.
Say that again.
More for the same, but for more of the different.
I think you said for more of the same, not more of the different.