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Jan. 23, 2025 - Stay Free - Russel Brand
01:19:26
The Oracle Series: Trump, Globalism, and the New Spiritual Battle – SF525
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Hello there you awakening wonders Thanks for joining me today for Stay Free with Russell Brand and what a special episode we have for you this Thursday.
It's been an extraordinary week redolent with symbology because an inauguration is about a transfer and instantiation of power.
Do the ceremonies and symbols matter?
Is the signified and the signifier somehow intrinsically, authentically connected to an identifiable and objective reality?
Or can we say that the symbol of a swishing sword cut in a...
The cake while dancing to the YMCA is meaningless, yet the symbol of a Nazi salute is filled with meaning.
We'll be talking about the inauguration as well as the WHO withdrawal by Donald Trump.
And additionally, if we have time, some matters emergent from the Southport murders in the UK. Democratic crisis that has been introduced in my country, the UK, because of the way that those murders have been handled in media and the kind of cultural identity crisis that has coalesced around it right up to,
I suppose, the jailing of people for posting stuff on the internet, the grooming gang crisis and the incarceration of Tommy Robinson.
Joining me today and every week in this new Oracle series, which will make up our...
Precious and beloved Thursday show are, my friends...
And allies and fantastic reporters, Lara Logan and Neil Oliver.
If you don't know about Lara Logan, she's an incredibly brave and brilliant reporter who made her name and her bones working inside Legacy Media and now does a great deal of incredible work in the field of human trafficking.
I don't mean contributing to it.
She's not got like a truck somewhere loaded up with the vulnerable.
No, I mean preventing it, which I've seen her do marvelously and magnificently in a number of contexts, both at live events and online.
Lara, thank you so much for joining us today.
Thank you for having me, Russell.
Additionally joining me is my doppelganger brother, my shadow self and that great emergent archetype from the hills of Scotland.
The coast guy himself, the magnificent Neil Oliver.
Thanks for joining us, Neil.
I'm delighted to be with you both, Russell and Lara.
Thank you so much for joining us.
The first story that we're going to discuss today is the inauguration itself.
We're seeing seismic changes around the world since the election of Donald Trump.
There are many legislative changes already in action.
The withdrawal from the World Health Organization being the first and most significant among them.
This is the WHO's response to America's withdrawal from the WHO.
The World Health Organization regrets the announcement that the USA intends to withdraw.
The WHO plays a crucial role in protecting the health security of the world's people, including Americans.
Now, what do you think this indicates, Lara?
Is this...
An end of globalism.
Is this a positive step forward for America?
Or does this indeed place the world's vulnerable and the health of Americans and the health of people around the world in jeopardy?
Is this, do you think, an endorsement, an early endorsement of the Trump administration?
Or do you think this is an indicator of a malign administration?
This is an administration that's carrying out its promises, and it's doing it from day one, right?
I mean, Trump said on the campaign trail that he was going to withdraw from WHO. You know, last time around, he withdrew from the Paris Climate Accord.
He was looking at the United Nations very closely.
It really marks the era of Trump doing something that Americans, millions of Americans have wondered about for a long time.
Like, why are you a member of a group?
That every chance they get, they stand up and say how awful you are.
And you're paying all the bills.
Not all of the bills, but you're paying most of them.
So the WHO in that respect is representative of the UN and all these other global organizations.
However...
However, what's different with the WHO is COVID, right?
Because you can make arguments, and I grew up, I was born and raised in Africa, so, you know, I know that there are Africans who are part of these programs and supposedly benefit from this, although never seen any improvement in the standard of living or the health of any of these countries where the WHO operates in practice, right?
So I'm not sure how much good it does, but this is a kind of safety net, or so we believe.
However, what happened with the WHO during COVID was that they really led this march on the world that was based on one lie after another.
And what you saw, COVID brought into clear focus this clash between global governance and global organizations.
And the individual rights and freedoms of sovereign nations and sovereign individuals.
You know, I mean, Europe was ready to toss the Nuremberg Code out the window.
It's like, oh, goodbye, Joseph Megler.
Goodbye, you know, Nazi Holocaust and all the rest of it.
We don't care about the Nuremberg Code anymore.
It's time to talk about forced vaccinations.
Well, you know, the Nuremberg Code was implemented specifically to prevent you from being forced to do something medically.
But in the United States, you have a Bill of Rights, you know, and you have a constitution.
And people are not just going to go along with that.
They're not going to indefinitely suspend their liberties and then, by the way, sign on to a treaty that says that the WHO, the next time there's a pandemic, is going to be in charge.
So really, I think it was the mass murder and harming of people all over the world that brought this issue of global governance into focus.
And I don't want to talk too long.
I want to hand it over to Neil.
I have to say, me personally, I'm one of those people that says the WHO could go, you know, they can get knotted.
And you're going to have to come up with some other system, a better system, to help people across the world than one that is profoundly dishonest and, quite frankly, tyrannical, and then harming people.
I mean, who wants that?
No.
No, thank you.
Trump emphasised in the withdrawal the economic aspect of the United States' relationship with the WHO, that their contributions significantly outweigh, for example, that of China, while America, of course, represent a smaller population.
Neil, do you consider this to be an economic or ideological withdrawal?
And what do you imagine its impact to be?
I think it's the players.
on this board are so slippery that I would need to wait and see what actually happens and how the words manifest themselves in the days and weeks and months ahead.
Trump's America has previously withdrawn funding from the WHO but money then went more directly to To Bill and Gates, I can't remember whether it was the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation or whether it was Gavi,
but money was redirected so that it seemed to have left where people didn't want to see it, but it still ended up in a connected destination, Bill Gates or the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation being amongst the biggest private funders of the WHO. I would need to see what actually happens.
When I say slippery, the WHO were pushing the The pandemic preparedness treaty, which they were trying to get, you know, every, you know, every functioning country on earth to, you know, to accept.
Then that garnered the kind of headlines that became a bit problematic for the WHO. Perhaps it went a bit into the long grass and then lo and behold, it resurfaced in the United Nations in New York with talk of the Pact for the Future and so on.
So something that had seemed to be You know, kicked away or pushed down by popular displeasure, then resurfaced somewhere else.
I would need to see what it actually means.
I would very much like to see the World Health Organization cease to be.
I think it's a malign presence and I don't want it funded by anyone.
I don't want it having any authority anywhere.
And if Donald Trump means it when he says that, you know, he, for his part, is going to withdraw everything from them, then good.
But I would need to see in the weeks ahead how that actually shapes up.
That's very sensible, Neil, to not...
Wildly offer opinions without observing information, and it's certainly not a position that I generally take.
I suppose the only thing around which we would have consensus, the three of us, is that the WHO could be regarded as a malign influence on global health, which is an extraordinary verdict to achieve consensus around, given the nature and name of the organisation.
But we have accumulatively so much information on what...
Their agenda appears to be that it's difficult to remain optimistic, and it's Trump's opposition to globalism that forms at least a significant part of his popularity, and I would say power, but I'm...
The reason I'm so grateful to both of you and for the complexity and nuance that you bring to your opinions always on all of the subjects that we've discussed over the years is because this isn't a simple matter of the kind of neo-liberal left bad and compliant acolytes of a globalist agenda and MAGA populists.
Good, bold opponents of globalism.
And it's interesting to bring in here Whitney Webb's take on this subject.
To be fair, Trump also left the WHO in mid-2020, says Whitney Webb, a brilliant journalist, and then redirected what was once WHO funding to the Gates-funded Gavi Vaccine Alliance that Neil just mentioned.
While leaving the WHO is positive, says Webb, it's not the slam-dunk summer advertising, especially considering Gates' recent comments on Trump's enthusiasm for his vaccine innovation proposals.
I get called a lot of names, says Webb, for pointing this sort of stuff out.
But remembering what happened last time is important and often instructive about the present, especially when few people in media are inclined to point these things out.
She says that in response to Brett Weinstein's post congratulating Trump for his withdrawal.
Oh, look, Neil's frantic and excited.
We've got to go straight to Neil.
Who cares what I think?
I've just spent my life trying to get in this position.
Neil Oliver's got an impulse.
Neil, what are you saying?
Go on, Neil.
It's over to you, mate.
It feels to me as though we're circling a black hole.
There's some hard to see, unfocused entity of centralisation.
That is at the heart of things in the way that a black hole is supposed to be somewhere in the universe, a sort of universal attractor.
And we are all of us kind of orbiting around the, you know, the event horizon, you know, one, you know, always being pulled into it and things are being distorted.
And the wonderful, you know, Whitney Webb there, you know, what she's pointing out, almost certainly what she's saying there is where I got, you know, my information from that I said in my first response to your question.
About things just being redirected.
There always feels to me now like we're all moving, whether we want to or not, whether even Trump wants to or not, whether Robert Kennedy Jr wants to or not.
We're being pulled by something centralising.
And I think it's extremely difficult, if not impossible, even for somebody with the thrust of an Elon Musk.
Or the thrust of a Donald Trump to break free of that almost irresistible gravity of the black hole.
I'm sure for some of them, there's genuine intent.
You know, there's a genuine will and a desire.
I mean, you said that Trump was anti-globalist.
And I'm sure in some ways, some parts of his DNA are, because I think he's very much a, you know, he's a game player.
He likes to...
To strike a deal, you know, he likes to be a mover and a shaker.
And I don't think he's naturally attracted to just a sort of a one-world government where he doesn't have any say.
I think he likes to be in amongst the big boys, you know, as a mover and a shaker.
And I think it's credible that he would like to be anti-globalist.
But I think the gravitational pull of globalism is very hard, a very hard one from which to break free.
I mean, you know, Lara...
Hailing, as she does from South Africa, you know, there's another excellent South African of my acquaintance, Nick Hudson, you know, and he has come up with this idea of Hudson's razor, where he says that if something is being pushed as a global crisis requiring only a global solution,
you know, a one-size-fits-all solution issuing from a central point, and if, as the third criterion, Any opposition to that, any challenge to that is brutally suppressed.
Hudson's razor says that that's a scam.
Hudson's razor identifies scams.
And I think in the context of the WHO, you know, as I say, they want that iteration.
Call it the WHO. Call it the United Nations.
You know, it keeps on popping up in different forms.
But it's a centralising force that draws everything towards it.
And we'll just, as Whitney says, you know, it's a bait and switch.
Okay, we'll take the money from the WHO, but we'll be sucked towards the same destination by giving it to Gavi.
Gotta watch.
Hey, OK, I'm sorry to interrupt you both.
If you're watching this on X or on YouTube, please click the link in the description now and join us over on Rumble, where we will continue to talk about the inauguration, as well as talking about the significance of the symbols used in it, as well as talking about some real practical ways in which globalism can continue to reassert power, even in spite of the success in the election.
So if you're watching on X or YouTube or Facebook, click the link and join us now over on Rumble.
If Hudson's razor is real, Neil, you should use it to trim your beard, he said.
I dare you.
I very dare you.
Of almost no self-awareness.
Lara, Neil makes so many good points there and uses such alluring and instructive imagery, the word thrust being particularly Potent image called upon by Neil, because it's almost as if some sort of priapic urgency is required from the members of the Trump administration to...
Pull away from the yawning and appealing vortex of globalism.
But if indeed such magnetic powers as Trump, Musk et al, with the mandate they appear to have, and it's that mandate you alluded to when we discussed even the legislation of the first 48 hours, which is all we're really able to...
You know, discuss, diagnose or determine.
We've already seen what appears to be an attempt to pull away from globalism.
Yet Webb and Neil there point out that it's a little more complicated than that.
And I wonder if you are concerned about some of the things that Bill Gates has been saying about vaccine programs.
And indeed, what about this new cancer vaccine that was being discussed just yesterday?
Are you troubled by things like that, Lara, when you see, and not to mention the new sort of AI program that appears to have enormous surveillance capacity?
How do we reconcile the positive things that we're seeing, the release of, I don't know, Albrecht and, you know, there's plenty of positive things.
I would say the withdrawal from the WHO is a positive thing with what appear to be, gosh, I don't want to say salutes.
That's a complicated word.
Nods towards other forms of globalism and authoritarianism.
The examples that have just been used.
Cancer, vaccine, AI, and the new cosying up of or with Bill Gates.
Did you die of Bill Gates or with Bill Gates?
Same as COVID. Let me know what you think, Laura.
Well, I'm a warrior, right?
I'm a fighter.
And I like my feet to be planted firmly on the ground.
And when I look at things, I know what Neil means by the centrifugal kind of force drag you into this black hole.
But, you know, the reality is that can be broken down very simply.
into very human actions, right?
It's not some vortex that we have no power or control over.
What you're actually describing is that there are very powerful people and institutions who have set up a system and a society that is pulling us in that direction and has been doing that for a very long time and stopping it.
It's going to take a monumental effort.
And it's not so simple as, you know, Republican versus Democrat, you know, Labour versus Conservative, because the reality is that Labour and Conservative, Republican and Democrat, they're all involved in forcing us into a global power structure.
They all want power.
I don't really understand it.
I couldn't think of anything worse than having power.
I'm not interested.
I don't even have power over my own children, you know, half the time.
But I'm not built that way.
That's not in my DNA. I don't care one bit about power.
What I care about are the things that are much older, right?
What did the 300?
What did the Spartans fight for?
What has man wanted from the moment we've been on Earth?
We have fought for freedom.
And really, we fought for the truth.
You know, people ultimately don't want to be lied to.
We want to lie to ourselves about a lot of things, but don't really want to be lied to.
So I believe that this is a monumental task.
And Trump and certain people around him are fighting.
On multiple fronts.
The world right now, look at Europe.
You talked about your own country.
You're sitting right there.
You're looking at it saying, what on earth has happened?
I lived in Paris when I was 18. I went back years later and I was like...
I didn't recognize it.
I lived in London for years.
Go back to London.
Parts of London are unrecognizable.
Not just that.
Grooming gangs, my ass, okay?
Those are rape gangs.
They're not grooming.
They're raping people.
So, you know, spare me the nice language, right, to try to cover up your crimes.
Look at what is happening all over the world.
But people are standing up all over the world.
They don't want this because it's built on lives.
We all know enough now to know that a global order is not going to make us all better off.
We're not going to have more rights.
We're going to have less.
We're not going to have more access to goods and services.
They told us globalization would make everything cheaper.
You know, it would bring jobs to everybody.
That was a lie.
Go to the Midwest of the United States and see the towns and cities that I've seen that have just absolutely sunk into poverty when they moved manufacturing overseas.
So maybe there's people in India and China who've got more jobs now.
But they took those jobs from somewhere.
So, you know, we've been deceived over and over and over.
And this is a fight that's been going on for a long time.
It's nothing new for people to want to control the world or to have absolute power.
But we are in a moment now where I worry that if you say, oh, there's a force pushing us there, that people will think they can't do anything about it.
And I don't believe that.
I think we've got to fight with every fiber of our beings, every single inch of me.
I will be that person that dies fighting.
I will never, ever surrender to this.
And I think the biggest worry that we have, one of the most alarming things is AI.
But I'm also big enough to know one thing.
I'm conscious of what I don't know.
So when I see all of this, it's tempting with social media to jump in there and throw your voice, you know, get your voice out there, throw your hat in the ring and be outraged and do this and that.
But those are the moments when I take pause and I think about what are they really playing at here?
What's the real game?
Because if AI is the future and quantum computing and all that stuff is coming, Coming at us like a high-speed train.
You need to be able to fight on that new battlefield.
So is that what they're doing?
I don't know yet.
I just don't know enough.
I think we're going to find out with time.
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Well, it sounds like what you're anticipating is a kind of AI cold war of mutually assured destruction, that if your enemy is going to be utilizing this technology, then everyone has to.
And in a sense, that absolves everyone of moral responsibility.
What I'd like to sort of contemplate when it comes to the idea of outsourcing jobs and the economic impact of such is that what is really urgently required is a...
A metric that transcends that dynamic that we don't look at our roles primarily as cogs in a machine.
We have to reject that idea.
The problem of the arguments of the last century were perhaps that both sides use economic vernacular to determine their ideology.
Whether it was Marx saying that industrialization had tyrannized the population or capitalism saying that economies could liberate the population.
What I believe we're experiencing through this revival, this revival that's concomitant with the many Evil forces that Neil alludes to in his vortex analogy and that you rally us to oppose, quite rightly, Boudicca of South Africa, that you are, warrior woman.
It does indeed have to be opposed, but my concern would be that it can't be opposed simply using forces that are contained within that paradigm, i.e.
Whether that's sort of MAGA nationalism or this peculiar new form of empire that we call globalism, perhaps precisely because the term is anodyne enough for us to be distracted.
From the fact that, as you say, there's always been the pursuit of global power.
But we'll leave that particular aspect of the subject, the World Health Organization, as an avatar for globalist power and Trump's withdrawal from it as a demonstration that nationalism is one of the most obvious ways to oppose globalism.
In fact, it's just packed into the terminology, isn't it?
It's kind of obvious that nationalism would be a response to globalism.
We'll park that for a moment.
moment.
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Here's an extract from our conversation yesterday with Nathan Finocchio.
Have a look at this. - There's three books that have changed my life, I was on a bit of a demythologization quest in my 20s, and there's sort of two camps in Christian theology, particularly in the study of the Old Testament.
One is explaining the supernatural in sort of a...
A demythologization way, right?
So, like, did the flood happen?
No, it was just phenomenological to the narrator.
You know, his world was flooding, but the actual world didn't flood.
And this is sort of, these are the modern questions, so that Christians don't feel like idiots when they're conversing with people of science who think that the supernatural is insane.
Heiser has pushed back on that, and he's like, no, no, everything, the talking snake, all of the miracles, I think that that's real.
And beyond that, we're living in a supernatural world, and if you believe in a guy who came back from the dead, and he could walk on water and make people's limbs grow back, then what's your problem with the sun standing still?
And so on and so forth.
And that actually puts you in the seat of the intended audience.
People that were reading the book of Genesis believed that such things could happen and did happen.
And so, to be a better reader of Scripture...
I should believe, like you said, like the trash cans can talk and that the trees are alive and the world, you know, kind of like in a Tolkien sense where, you know, the world is just so, it's more supernatural than we realize.
And everything is a miracle and it's sort of more exciting.
And I reckon that that's the way to read scripture.
That's the way to understand Jesus.
And maybe that's really how life...
There's no point pretending that we don't all refer to deep inner meaning when organizing our own lives.
The inauguration ceremony was therefore loaded with symbols.
Did Trump put his hand on the Bible or just above the Bible?
Why have a Bible there at all?
What do those ceremonial swords mean?
Why cut a cake?
What does it mean when you apportion and share a cake?
What does it mean when Hermes reapportions Apollo's cattle?
What does the word carnival even actually mean?
Who is it that apportions power?
Who gets the first cuts and who gets the lousy guts?
Who is ultimately in control?
And what can we determine from the angle of Elon Musk's right hand?
The media is going into apoplexy and spasms around this moment of Elon Musk.
Did he do a Nazi salute or did he not do a Nazi salute?
And look at all of these other people apparently holding their hands at the same angle, whether it's Taylor Swift or Kamala Harris or Hillary Clinton.
All of us have been guilty at some time or another of holding our hand at that angle.
Now, I want to go to you first here, Neil.
Neil, why is it that we're continually reaching for meaning?
AOC, for example, was genuinely, I think, incensed by that angle.
And I will say that, like I said on my show earlier, that's a crazy thing for Elon Musk to do by accident.
And I genuinely sort of feel like it was an expression of excitement from a man with perhaps unusual skills.
But given...
Given the type of conversation that he must have known would ensue, it was a pretty curious, inadvertent blunder.
What do you make of it, Mr Oliver?
I don't think someone as experienced on the world stage would do much.
Genuinely, spontaneously, without having pre-thought a little bit about what he might do and what might happen immediately thereafter.
You know, when it comes to something like a gesture such as he made, which can be interpreted in more than one way.
I don't think it's accidental.
And I think it's also probably...
We possibly have seen enough of Elon Musk to know that he is a provocateur.
He likes to make plain that he has got himself into a position where he can do what he wants.
And he often does what he wants.
I've often wondered whether...
I don't know.
I've never met Elon Musk.
Like most people, I just watch what's...
Presented to me on one screen or another.
But he seems to me to be somebody who is neither good nor bad.
I think he's morally ambivalent to some extent.
I think he is driven to do the things that he knows he can do.
If it's possible for him, he will do it.
Without troubling himself too much about whether or not it's a good or a bad thing to do.
It's just a possible thing to do and therefore he will do it.
Put a sports car in space orbiting the earth with a dummy and I'll do it.
Because I can do it.
And I'll catch rockets with another bit of kit because I can do it.
But I'm sure he knew going out there that he was going to make that gesture.
And he knew that it was going to cause a heck of a fuss.
That's what he wanted to do.
He knew that it was going to set the chattering classes chattering.
And I think that was the impact of it.
I don't think he was declaring himself to be a Nazi.
I don't think he was declaring himself to be a citizen of the Roman Republic or a Roman Emperor.
I think he just knew that by gesturing in that way at the crowd, he would get them talking.
And by God he did.
Go on, Lara.
Well, this is where I go back to being conscious of what I don't know, right?
Because, I mean, you cannot, you know, Neil's got his opinion on it, and I try to look at it as a journalist.
Like, there's no way that I can know what's in Elon Musk's head.
But, you know, he's pretty geeky.
He's pretty awkward.
And when I saw him do that, I didn't think twice.
I didn't think anything of it.
So I step back at that point, and I look at it strategically.
And what we have is a return to the Nazi narrative.
But more than that, what you've already seen from before the election and afterwards is that we're in the age of information warfare, fifth generation warfare, and one of the main narratives is designed to separate Trump from Elon Musk.
Why?
Because Elon Musk has extraordinary power with Twitter.
What did his buying Twitter do?
It did much more than just give, you know, supporters of Trump a home.
It broke information dominance in a very powerful way.
So up until that moment, when you have legacy and traditional media, and then you have, you know, what you had in, for example, in 2020, when Facebook canceled Candace Owens.
They had a deal with Verizon and AT&T and whatever, with the email companies, the phone companies, and they all canceled her.
So she couldn't even reach the million-plus supporters she had through text and email.
These people colluded to silence people.
So when they owned, whether it's Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, TikTok, and X, plus you own the email companies, you own the text companies, the phone companies, and you have traditional media, You have information dominance.
And that has been so powerful for them.
But when Musk took over Twitter, that ended in the biggest way.
And then he exposed the censorship of the Twitter files and everything else.
So there's no question that Elon Musk is a powerful force right now.
He has a power that no other politician has.
And they just don't, except for Donald Trump.
So what do they do?
If you're his opponents, if you're their enemies, what do you have to do?
You have to sow seeds of doubt amongst the supporters, amongst the people serving with him, and most importantly, amongst Trump.
So we have the chipping away.
The chipping away of the relationship between them.
We have the effort to create disharmony and get infighting going, right?
And then you have this...
They're trying slowly to turn public opinion against Elon Musk.
Well, you know, they're doing it with the same old tired narrative of the Nazis.
And I just have to say, if you haven't read the Finders documents, if you haven't looked at any of the Operation Paperclip documents...
You have some serious homework to do regarding the Nazis in the Second World War.
Because if you really want to know who the Nazis are, take a look at Alan Dulles, you know, who founded the CIA. Who did he do it with?
Well, the former head of Nazi intelligence, brought to the United States under Operation Paperclip.
Let me see.
John Kerry married to Theresa Heinz Kerry.
What did her family do?
In Austria, they provided the safe houses for the Nazis who were fleeing Europe to go to Latin America.
Hmm.
Bill de Blasio.
Former mayor of New York.
What's his real name?
Wilhelm Werner Jr. You know, okay, who says he was abused by his father.
That's why he changed his name.
Well, maybe it was.
Maybe it wasn't.
You know, you start to break it down.
You start to see that.
Actually, who protected the Nazis in Ukraine from the Nuremberg trials?
Well, Alan Dulles and the CIA. Oh, wait a minute.
That's right.
Where was the Nazi SS headquartered?
In Western Ukraine.
So you protected some of the worst criminals.
You brought them in to the United States.
You put them inside of NASA, the intelligence agencies, your classified programs.
You took them to Fort Detrick, Maryland, which is, you know, where you continue to carry out the biological weapon programs of the Nazis.
Okay, so if you want to really scratch the surface of the Nazi narrative, who were the Nazis?
The National Socialists.
They were leftists.
This whole construct of, you know, Nazism and racism and fascism all belongs to the right.
It's all nonsense.
They're vying for power, just like Al-Qaeda is fighting ISIS and this one and that one for power of the Islamic movement.
These people, whether they're, you know, the Nazis or the Marxists, they're all fighting each other because when you dig the surface, they don't believe in freedom of speech.
They don't believe in freedom of religion.
They don't believe in individual liberty.
They don't believe in free markets.
I mean, they've got more in common with each other than, you know, than anybody else.
So what does that mean?
It's a lie.
Aren't we just, do you not feel a lot of the time that we're just being played like a Stradivarius?
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You know, I mean, it's...
You know, there's a...
There's constantly an ever refreshing performance on the stage, you know, and the rest of us are just in the auditorium watching, distracted, you know, being shocked by this plot change and this scene change and, you know, and this dramatic effect and this flashing light.
And, you know, and what's happening now, I don't know, it seems to me the whole theatre of the inauguration, I was watching it in just sort of bewildered awe.
I just didn't.
Cakes here, swords there.
The new president of the United States doing the YMCA. I mean, Nazi salutes from the, or purported Nazi salutes.
I just didn't know which way to look next.
And it feels like being on the waltzers or the merry-go-round and the guys that are the fair hands, just spinning everything faster and faster and faster, keeping everybody dizzy.
And look what's going on.
You know, in the face of all the dreary stuff like the state of economies, the Ponzi scheme that is currencies, the quadrillions of debt, you know, the necessity to perpetuate war here, there and everywhere in order to keep the military industrial complex running.
And what are we talking about?
You know, here in the UK, we're talking about, you know, Prince Harry, you know, apparently having some kind of victory over...
The empire of Rupert Murdoch and whether or not Elon Musk performed knowingly a Nazi salute.
You know, the world's going to hell in a handcart.
Rome's burning.
We're all just watching the sideshows.
Do you not feel?
We're just being played.
Played.
No, yes, but no.
Because yes, because everything you said is correct, but no, because when you pull those threads, those threads lead to the deeper truth.
Even if we were...
I'm not suggesting that we do in some detail examine the spat between Harry and Murdoch, but if you were to pull that, you would look at old media institutional power versus old collapsing monarchical power and how that's playing out even in an attempt to retain, as you said, attention in a manageable space.
But, you know, recently I had this rather spiritual, if you...
If you want my opinion, epiphany that if God is an all-encompassing, all-powerful creator of all reality, then his signature would be present like DNA, an identifiable hallmark in every moment.
When this revelation came to me...
A different sort of presence entered my consciousness, which appears to be accessible, if not all the time, more frequently.
And in any moment, it seems to me, Lara and Neil, you can identify deeper truths that are somehow embedded in a single gesture or communicative exchange in the same way as that you could take a single cell from either one of us and were the science available and surely the science of God is limitless, you could recreate us in our entirety.
If there's a point to God at all, it's as an aspatial and atemporal being that can be antithetical to this nihilistic vortex that you earlier described, Neil, a dark and demonic or perhaps a light and luciferian force that...
It brings about and charges our lower nature for a long time.
I've had conversations with each of you separately about my belief that there needs to be a re-engagement of ulterior spiritual power, particularly the power of the cross and Christ Jesus, if we are to oppose these forces that you continually describe.
Although the theology that I'm, of course, referring to doesn't indicate but plainly states that...
Christ himself will resolve these issues and all we need to do is be prepared for that.
I mean, but I don't want to park myself in indolence and hopelessness, irrelevant and redundant.
I know that from my faith in him, works will unfold.
That because I believe in him and because I believe he will return, is returning, is present now in this moment, I will...
In accordance with that, I will become beautiful in his name and by his grace, not by my merit.
I suppose I mention this just so that amidst all the giddiness of the ceremonies that you've described, Neil, it seems significant to me that two moments that we've not yet touched upon are the fact that a Bible is there at all is an indication that there's a requirement for an authority that goes beyond human power.
And the fact that there is the prayer morning, and that the prayer morning created, once again, cultural controversy, as the clergy person, Bishop, um...
Errol, Errol, Errol, something like that.
Merrol, yeah, Bapé Bishop, like, you know, that bishop, that bishop.
She referenced cultural issues that are clearly divisive and are at odds with the...
Many people are concerned that this is a Project 2025 administration.
It's a phrase that you've heard.
It's reporting that I've seen that many of the executive orders already signed are in alignment with specific decrees in Project 2025, which is undergirded by the Heritage Think Tank, which even in the article that I read was called a kind of conservative think tank.
But it's a Christian think tank is really what it is.
And I wonder, Lara, what you think is the significance and importance of Christianity and Christ.
Why these ceremonies refer to Christianity and Christ?
Why...
We are now apparently experiencing some kind of revival of interest in Christianity.
And what you think is the significance of Christianity and Christ in particular, now that...
Wherever you stand in this argument, this is an enormous shift.
We're now not in, we've seen now Biden's ludicrous pardons.
Ludicrous pardons, which again is of course a reappropriation of the concept of forgiveness and the idea that one can wipe the slate clean, that there is some sacrament or covenant that could cleanse a person.
You preemptively can even deploy that for Fauci and the J6 committee.
This shift in power, because now, those guys, and I really appreciate you saying before, Lara, that a power as nefarious and insidious and ingenious as that which we're describing is, of course, finding forms of expression.
A significant example of that being an attempt to separate Musk and Trump, because if you have a Musk-Trump alliance, you have an albeit flawed conduit for continual free speech, at very least.
How do you think, Christianity will evolve, how opposition will evolve in the light of the inauguration.
Why is it significant that there has to be reference to Christian power in particular in these ceremonies, both in terms of the prayer breakfast and the controversy there and the Bible hovering?
Because even though these are somewhat trivial issues, like I said before, Neil, the threads of them surely lead to some deeper truth.
Lara.
Okay, so that's just 50 questions which I'll try to answer.
I'm glad he's going to you first, Lara, because I'm going to listen to your answer and then copy it.
Okay, well, this is the thing.
Having grown up outside of the United States and now being a citizen and having lived here for a long time, my children born here and so on, I have learned about something that I never understood from a distance, which is that...
When you go back to the Constitution and the papers, you know, the writings of the Founding Fathers, the thing that makes America different from all the other nations on Earth is that it was founded on a covenant with God.
So that's not something that people in Europe or Africa typically understand.
It's not built, that covenant with God is not built into the fabric of the literal founding of the country.
And it goes even beyond that.
Because if you look at the civil war in the, well, if you look at the war with the British in the United States.
That dog is messing up your audio, Lara.
That dog's messing up your audio.
Sorry, this one?
I think so.
It got in the way of the mic, I think.
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Sorry.
Okay, wait.
I'll say that again.
So it's not just the founding of the country.
If you go back and you look at the war against the British, what you will see is that the colonies, the 13 colonies, where did they organize?
What was the foundation of the resistance against the British Empire?
And against the crown, you know, which was the greatest power on earth at the time.
They did it inside the churches.
It came from the congregations.
And if you read the letters of the 13 colonies, you see how heavily they relied on that.
So in the United States, not across the world, not something that people across the world can relate to, necessarily, or even understand, in the United States, the founding of this country is 100% You know, inseparable from Judeo-Christian values and from this covenant with God.
And in fact, the taking of this country from the British, it came out of that.
And so what happened was that those people who didn't take this experiment very seriously, right, those people from, you know, around the world who looked at this and thought that the colonies didn't stand a chance, they then looked at this again after The defeat of the British and what did they try to do over the next hundred years?
There's historical evidence that shows How they tried to infiltrate the churches.
And they didn't really succeed.
They succeeded here and there.
So at the turn of the next century, where did they focus?
They focused on the seminaries.
And why am I bringing this?
What is my point?
Well, because you raised both the founding of America, why that hand on the Bible is there, in the inauguration ceremony, and then this pastor, this bishop, at the prayer breakfast, who stood there and lectured the president, as if he doesn't know exactly what the deal is with illegal immigration, and took a very Very selective political line.
But that was interesting because in recent times, in America, there's been a push towards secularism, right?
It's happening all over the world.
Christianity's going down, Islam's going up, blah, blah, blah.
We all know that.
But what has been driving that?
Well, they took the prayers out of, you know, public schools.
They used the separation of church and state to justify erasing, trying to erase God.
From the roots and the founding and the identity of this country.
And what people miss when they talk about, say, for example, the First Amendment, it isn't just about free speech.
If you read the First Amendment, it's about freedom of many freedoms, but including one of the first listed, the freedom of religion.
So what gives you the freedom to worship any God you want, to be part of any religion, to not be part of a religion if you don't want to?
In the United States, it's Judeo-Christian.
Values that give you that freedom.
I can tell you having lived in Iraq and Afghanistan and traveled all over the Middle East and Central Asia and many other places, including most, you know, a lot of Islamic countries, they don't have that kind of freedom there, okay?
It doesn't exist.
It doesn't exist.
It's not guaranteed.
It's not a given.
So you're right.
You know, people want to now say, well, Christianity is bad.
The crusades were awful.
Look at all the pedophilia.
And all of that is true.
All of that is valid, right?
I mean, those are the things I grew up focused on.
I was like, why would I want to identify myself with the church when the church does all these evil, terrible things?
But they don't tell you the whole truth.
You know, I was in a village in ancient Mesopotamia.
Which is now northern Iraq.
I lived in Iraq for five years.
And when I was in this village, where it was written in the history books that Jesus had walked those streets and all the rest of it, it was newly liberated from ISIS. And I was, I mean, they were still in control of Mosul at the time, which was, I mean, you could see it right there.
You could see the enemy lines and, you know, all of that was still happening.
ISIS was in control.
And so I was just trying to get a simple...
I wanted to make sure that it was true that Jesus really walked those streets before I reported it for 60 minutes.
And so I asked the simple question of how old is this town?
And I got a different answer from everyone.
So eventually I said, okay, this isn't working because everyone's concept of time is different here.
So I asked this, what is the oldest?
Take me to the oldest building in the village.
The oldest building.
And I expected...
To be taken to the mosque.
I never for one single moment thought that they would take me where I went, which was to where?
To the synagogue.
And they were all, all these Muslim people, oh yeah, this is the synagogue.
It had written into the wall when it was built and all the rest of it.
So then I was like, okay, I'm on a roll.
Take me to the next oldest building.
Again, expecting to go to the mosque.
No, where did I go?
I went to the church.
They took me to the Assyrian church.
And then when I went to the mosque, after that, the first mosque, Wasn't built in that town where Jesus did walk the streets until roughly 600 years after the first church.
So for 600 years, there wasn't a mosque there.
And I'm only, I raise this to you for this idea, is that This idea that somehow, if you stand up for Judeo-Christian values, and you stand up for God, now means the death of all other religions, and you're an evil, terrible person, and you're forcing your identity on someone.
No!
We've been shamed and bullied and forced into turning our backs on reality.
Because this covenant with God...
It's a real thing in the United States.
They don't do it in other places, but it means something here.
It really does.
And this idea that unless you turn your back on God, you're somehow violating the Constitution is a fake idea.
And as you know, Russell, you've talked about this a lot.
We are in a spiritual battle.
When you cover, like you said, I do a lot of my work looking at the reality of child trafficking.
I can tell you, when you look at the reality of that, there is no doubt in your mind, no doubt in your mind that evil does exist.
It is a real thing.
And so why would you...
Why would you believe in evil but you wouldn't believe in good?
You know, those are the kind of questions that you start to ask yourself.
And by the way, you know, the satanic church in America is currently suing the Supreme Court for the right to perform satanic ritual abortions in the United States.
So if you want to say this is conspiracy, go to the Supreme Court docket and listen to the words of the satanic church that thinks that they have a right.
To perform ritual abortions.
I actually can't believe that.
I actually, I mean, that is a brilliant way to...
That's spiritual warfare.
If it's true, if that's true, I really want to see the receipts for that.
Let's pull that up, because if the Supreme Court are currently reviewing whether the Satanic Church have the right to perform ritual abortions, okay, yeah, no, but just even the fact that such a concept would exist would fascinate me.
But even before you'd said that, there was a great deal to unpack, Neil.
I can't imagine that you are in a better position than you were when I stopped speaking to tackle what seems to be a pretty broad area, but I do know you, Neil.
I know you're to be a brilliantly capable man with an extraordinarily illustrious mind.
So make what you can of what both Lara and I have said, sir.
I think it encourages a thinking person to go in search of simplicity in a sense.
Quite early on in our conversation between the three of us, Lara, you said, you know, I had said something about the centrifugal force and you wanted quite rightly to say that Not too high!
Not too high, Neil!
Not at a right angle to my body, no!
So you were right to point that out.
When I talk about simplicity, we have absolutely for 300 years in the West been discouraged away from God.
I mean, I'm quite happy to say I think God is real.
And I believe in evil.
I believe in both.
And I think that's a simple thing to comprehend.
And it's a relief to say something like that.
You know, the image of a President of the United States of America placing his hand onto or over a Bible, a holy Bible.
He's supposed to be acknowledging something ancient, which is that no one, no mortal, no human being is above the law.
You know, that ultimately we are irresistibly Unquestionably, under the law.
Whether we're the President of the United States or just men and women in the street, we are under the law and we're answerable to it.
And it's something that's easy to forget and easy to overlook.
And it's so important.
Russell, you talked about Biden hardening his family and Liz Cheney and members of the January 6th Committee and so on.
That was a travesty.
That was an inversion of lawfulness.
It invites nothing less than all of us looking on when we see something like a get out of jail free card being handed to Anthony Fauci and all of the rest to think that the law is just something that powerful people have as a gift.
It's up to them.
If they say it's legal, it's legal.
And if they say it's...
Illegal for you, they'll put you in jail for it.
It's an absolute travesty.
And it's so important, I think, that we take a snapshot.
And Biden's not the first to do it.
They all do it.
They all, you know, presidents take this opportunity to absolve their lieutenants and their goons, you know, preemptively.
They all do it.
Neil, it's just a small thing I want to pick up on, and it's a short point.
Please be brief, Russell.
Is this.
When you say it's to indicate that we are not above the law, what do you mean by law?
Because law literally is...
Are you talking about mosaic law, a decree from God?
Are you talking about an absolute universal principle?
Or are you talking about Yahweh, Elohim?
From where?
From where?
From where are you deriving this absolute?
It can't be legislative or human.
It cannot be post-enlightenment law.
Because otherwise it will be utilised in exactly the way you're describing.
Unless it is a transcendent yet imminent God.
How will it not be subject to utility, Neil?
It's really, I mean, it is important, I think.
It's important, it's simple, it's easy to grasp this stuff.
You know, statute, legislation, the stuff that parliaments or Congress, these documents that they write, these millions of pages of legislation that they come up with and empower themselves to pass, are just so much confetti in the wind.
They're just workarounds.
They're just powerful people putting in writing.
The workarounds that let them do what they wanted to do in the first place.
That's legislation.
That's statute.
That's all that man-made stuff.
Every child knows the law.
It's right and wrong.
That's right.
Everyone knows.
You know what?
What is it?
Where's that coming from then?
Where's that coming from?
No, the law.
It's older than any religion.
It's God!
It's God!
The law just is!
It's not the law!
It's God!
It's God, Neil!
You can use any language.
You can use any language you want.
I think it's, personally, I think it's simpler to say that the law just is.
It can't be touched.
I am!
As Moses said, as Christ says on the water, I am!
I am the moment living!
I am the living water!
I am the law!
I am a jealous God.
No gods but me.
I mean, I don't think it's just semantics because law indicates construction created.
God indicates constructor creator.
And if we make it about the object of law rather than the creator, then the utility flows out of that, Neil.
I just think it's simpler than that.
We all know.
We all know the difference between right and wrong.
And when you watch...
- Jesus! - When you went. - Jesus! - He can't stand it.
But you're giving it names, which is appropriate because of your particular personal point of view.
You know, you're personalising it.
You're giving it a name.
No!
I had to kill the person to get this.
I had to kill the person to get this.
It's the opposite of personalising it.
I was personalising it before.
Now, I'm irrelevant.
I'm irrelevant.
I mean, I'm still trying my best to be me and I still want attention and I still want power because I'm fallen and broken and desperate and silly.
But it's not a personalization.
It's the recognition that when you accept Christ as man, the perfect life, perfectly lived, the perfect sacrifice to show that maximal power is the maximal power to sacrifice yourself for the common good.
The very thing on the altar of the present in this moment, in your mind, Neil, Lara, me, all of us watching this, there is the aperture.
Of consciousness, and there is the apex of the interaction between apparently external stimuli and the reception of that stimuli.
Now, if on that altar you place your personal urgency and your desire, then you have...
In a sense, replaced Christ.
And if you actually, if you refute that, if you repent and take yourself off the altar, the self and what the self wants, and I'm not suggesting that I'm capable of doing that alone.
In fact, I'm telling you that I'm not.
And in this moment, I'm not even sure if I'm saying this now because it's Russell wants attention, Russell wants to get his point across, or because Russell resolutely believes in Christ Jesus.
But it's only by accepting the transubstantiation of focusing on him in the present that you can overcome your own Russellness.
And surely overcoming Russellness is an objective to be pursued.
But please, Neil.
All I'm saying in simple terms is that none of us can touch the law.
That's it.
You can't change it.
Lara was talking there about the US Constitution and the Founding Fathers.
It's important to know that underpinning it is that sense that they weren't inventing anything.
You know, when they wrote the Constitution, in the same way when Magna Carta was written in 1213, it didn't matter.
I mean, it was being written down.
It was like a catch-up.
It was like a reminder.
But the point was, they weren't creating anything new.
They were just saying it in the knowledge that they could neither touch it nor change it.
Right is right and wrong is wrong.
That's all I'm saying.
And it's very important to watch, as an example, an outgoing president letting people away with murder in order to realise that we do not live in a lawful society.
We live in a society of legislation.
Which is written by people who are on the make and on the take and not one, every word of it is written on water.
It's utterly without purpose.
All that matters is that right is right and wrong is wrong and we all know it and we can't touch it or change it.
That's all I was saying.
Now, for you it's made manifest in the Eucharist and it's made manifest in Scripture.
But it's simpler than that.
You can't touch it.
You can't change it.
Can I say one thing?
I think what you're talking about, Neil, is embodied in this.
It's just like there's only one truth.
People try to get you to understand.
They say my truth, your truth.
No, that's nonsense.
There's only one truth.
We sat here, we had this conversation, and we didn't, and so on and so on, right?
So I take refuge in that as a journalist, because my job is to try to figure out the truth.
And if that's my master, who am I really serving?
Because if there's only one truth...
It saves us all from ourselves, all those frailties and prejudices and biases and opinions and all the rest of it, right?
Because if there's only one truth, where does truth come from?
It doesn't come from darkness.
It comes from light.
It doesn't come from deception, right?
It comes from honesty and integrity and all these things.
And you know what I'm going to say, Russell?
You know it.
I am the way, the truth, and the life.
The truth is God.
And I don't think it's simpler than that.
The truth is God.
And so, yes, you're right, Neil.
We know in our hearts the difference between, you know, we know what the Ten Commandments say.
Thou shalt not kill, except we complicate it.
Okay, now you want to kill my child.
Now can I kill you?
Is it okay?
But, you know, what we know intrinsically, if you want that simplicity...
We know thou shalt not steal, thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife.
We know these things implicitly.
You're right.
It is very simple.
The truth is always very simple.
And thank God, because they throw so much ambiguity at it.
They throw so much crap in the air that we're actually spent a few minutes discussing Elon Musk's hand gestures, which was, you know, it's like a waste of time.
You might as well suck your brain out.
And flush it down the toilet.
That's how useful it is.
I think it's also, I mean, Russell, I think it's also, it's eminently, you know, useful, I think, to remember that when it comes to Jesus, that, you know, Jesus made plain when he turned up to begin his mission, when he began to speak as an adult man.
He said, I've not come to write the law.
I've just come to remind everybody that the law is the law and that you're not obeying it.
You know, he was pointing his fingers at the Pharisees in particular, upon whom he heaped a program.
But he wasn't claiming.
He didn't claim to be the author of the truth or the law.
He just said, look, we all know the law.
The problem is you guys are breaking it.
Just follow the law.
That was, you know, even Jesus, you know, was saying the same.
It's not me.
It's not about me.
Just do the right thing, because you know what it is.
Indeed, perhaps part of the manifestation of Christ as man is to inculcate and instantiate the principle of substantiation.
Elsewise, sacrifice was required to be relational, e.g.
Abraham-Isaac.
Sacrifice has to be played out relationally.
Through the triune God, the inauguration of the Holy Spirit, through Christ, we're provided with the cartilage between the deity and the material.
Now, I just want to say that when you said, wrote upon the water, and when you said, Lara, about light, the very first words of the great book, in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
The earth was without form.
Now, I suppose the only difference or differentiation that I'm trying to refer to is the idea that...
For law to be, there has to be a principle behind it.
And we were so close to C.S. Lewis's definition of the presence of Christ in mere Christianity that it seems impolite not to at least reference it, that his own argument...
From atheism to Christ Jesus was predicated on his own visceral knowledge of right and wrong that all of us know when we have violated that law.
We know it.
We know it already because it is.
It is I am.
It is the truth and the way.
And I just suppose that we're not really querying.
Or quarrelling over anything, really, as long as we all arrive, it appears that we're all arriving roughly the same place.
And I just want to say, as we bring this to conclusion, that...
I'm actually very happy with how this has gone.
I've really, really enjoyed it because even when we talked about quite tabloid and scintillating stuff like the hand gestures and the hovering above the Bible, that we did manage to find our way to why it was indicative of a deeper truth.
Because even I think when we're fascinated by something that's ludicrously profane and overtly pornographic, we're dealing with something.
We're dealing with something.
Why is the Lily Phillips or Bonnie Blue or the Whore of Babylon or Ezekiel's prostitutes irrelevant and redolent?
Why is the desecration of female erotic power significant?
In all of it, there is great power.
In all of it, there is great power.
And I suppose what I wanted to celebrate or at least acknowledge was that from...
Covering these topics about the WHO and covering matters around the inauguration and the constant reference to something sacred or at least an unimpeachable or irrefutable or absolute power.
There's a lot...
And I'm really grateful that we got the opportunity to look at stuff as practical as tactics to separate Musk and Trump being part of an ongoing globalist agenda, as well as through Whitney Webb's work that we looked at briefly, recognising that there are no human powers that are going to independently deliver us.
That's not going to happen.
That's not going to happen.
It's on us.
Yeah, it's on us.
And I think when you said that, Laura, about like, you know, that we have to resist the vortex and you saying that, Neil, that gravity does precisely that, it reminds us of our individual agency.
Because otherwise we live in this terrible age, as you referred to earlier, Neil, of, you know, the age of commentary, the chattering classes, chattering.
And it's sort of it's like suddenly we become dreadfully inactive.
And one of the reasons that I enjoy our conversation is because I know how active you are, in particular, Laura, around the child trafficking issues.
And Neil, I know how you live the principles of the soil and the symbol through your, let's face it, very Celtic interpretation and therefore pagan interpretation of meaning itself.
And I'm just very grateful to both of you for joining me today.
I hope that you'll both agree to join me next week for another Oracle episode where we will discuss whatever issues are defining the never-ending carnival world as we are, as Neil alluded to in one of these many great metaphors over the course of this conversation, perhaps while being...
Giddyingly and dizzyingly distracted from what we ought to be focused on.
Lara, thank you so much for joining us today.
Russell, thank you.
I want to point out one thing, which is just that we've never had a president.
We might need an hour.
No, very quickly.
We've never had a president sign executive orders in the presence of the people who voted him into power.
So that means something.
Not all of it is a show.
For bad reasons.
Sometimes it can be a show for good reasons, right?
Because that is a nod to the people who really gave Donald Trump the mandate that he has.
Let's see what he does with it.
Neil?
I just feel that this conversation, I was obviously a part of this conversation, but hopefully I was listening more than I was talking.
And I just hope it's encouraging for people to see that what we all have to try and do.
After all this time, is to sort of fumble and feel our way towards the right way to say, to express these thoughts, to articulate these ideas, because it hasn't been fashionable for centuries, really, to openly be in this territory.
You know, and if people listening felt that any one of us or all of us at different moments, you know, sort of lost our train of thought and it became confusing.
It's because we are finding our way into it.
It's difficult.
It's difficult stuff.
These are huge ideas.
The truth!
You know, we're trying to find a way to the truth.
You know, and the truth on the one hand is very simple, but it has been so obfuscated and buried and we're so distracted from looking at it and understanding that each one of us holds it in our hearts without having to be told.
To be reminded of that is profound and it's a bumpy road to get to it.
Neil and Lara, you're both so beautiful.
I find it impossible to declare which of you I'm more in love with.
I really do.
Thank you so much.
It's me, obviously.
How could it not be?
Thank you so much for participating in our inaugural, in every sense of the word, episode of Stay Free Oracles.
And we will do this all again next Thursday.
Thanks for joining us and we'll see you for another episode of Russell Brand's Stay Free Oracles.
No, we're just going to call it Stay Free Oracles next week.
And we will be back on Monday.
Not with more of the same, but with...
with more of the different.
Until then, if you can, stay free.
Switching, switching, switching, switching.
Switch on.
Many switching.
Switch on, switch in, switch on, switch off. Many switch in, switch on, switch off. Many switch in.
Switch on.
Many switching.
Switch on.
Many switching, switch on, switch on.
Many switching, switch on, switch on, switch on.
Many switching, switch on, switch on.
Many switching, switch on, switch on.
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