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Sept. 10, 2024 - Stay Free - Russel Brand

02:32:49

LIVE DEBATE WATCH PARTY: TRUMP VS. HARRIS

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	[inaudible]
	We're going to see the future.
	[Music]
	... approach toward immigration and that is because usually the Democrats promised
	immigration reform and Latinos were attracted to that promise but that
	promise never materialized Now they feel that the recent arrivals hurts not only their image, but they feel that it is unfair that they are getting paroled.
	Many of them are getting work permits while there are still millions of undocumented People here living in this country that are either married to U.S.
	citizens or have children that are U.S.
	born, that have been waiting for decades, also the dreamers.
	And that's the one thing that I think that they need to take into consideration.
	One thing that might hurt President Trump is the mass deportations.
	Latinos are not in favor of mass deportations.
	Rachel?
	Maria, Elena, Salinas, we so appreciate your time and your insights.
	Thank you so much for joining us.
	John?
	All right, we are less than 30 minutes away from the first debate between Donald Trump and Kamala Harris.
	When we come back, the global stakes in this most extraordinary moment.
	[Music]
	Why has America accepted the wait for payday?
	When life doesn't wait for you to get paid.
	[Music]
	[BLANK_AUDIO]
	[MUSIC PLAYING]
	ABC News, honored for excellence with 40 Emmy nominations.
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	Live reporting, breaking new exclusives.
	Keep streaming with ABC News Live.
	Back now in Philadelphia about 28 minutes until the election.
	The conflict in the Middle East and Matt I know this debate is being watched very closely
	there.
	[BLANK_AUDIO]
	Very closely, Martha, and a former longtime advisor for Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu told me that he's going to be watching very closely for what former President Trump has to say about Iran.
	He said, for Netanyahu, both Harris and Trump are known quantities, but the advisor telling me that for Netanyahu, a Trump presidency would be a dream come true, especially because of the mounting scrutiny that Netanyahu has been under Increasing allegations that he's been dragging his feet on this hostage deal and ceasefire, mounting even further after the release of that video, showing the tunnel in which those six hostages were executed, including American Hirsch Goldberg Pollen.
	That's just a couple of hours ago.
	And if you ask Israelis and Palestinians what they're looking for from Vice President Harris, they're likely to say they want to know what she has to offer that is different from what the Biden administration has been doing the past several months.
	Despite massive efforts, they've promised that a deal is around the corner, but it remains elusive.
	And it's going to be a lot easier of a sell for the former president who's ever faced a crisis like this, but he's likely going to say and repeat what he said in the past that if he were president, October 7th would never have happened.
	If he were president, he would have been able to have strong-armed Hamas and Netanyahu into a ceasefire in a hostage deal that would have saved the lives of many Palestinians and, of course, those hostages, Martha.
	A lot of challenges about that tonight for sure, Matt.
	Thanks so much.
	Ukraine also at the center of this.
	Let's bring in Chief Foreign Affairs Correspondent Ian Pannell, who is in Ukraine.
	Closely watch there as well, Ian.
	Yeah, that's right.
	I mean, I spoke to an advisor to the President's office today and he used one simple word, critical.
	It's critical what happens tonight.
	It's critical what happens in November.
	Not just to Ukraine, but I think this sends strong signals to other critical areas in terms of foreign policy for the United States.
	For example, China.
	And this war is just grinding on.
	I mean, overnight Ukraine launching one of its biggest drone attacks on Russia since the start of this war.
	drones were shot down the Moscow region over a hundred and forty fired into
	Russia an apartment block here to woman killed and one of Moscow's airports was
	also struck what we've seen is Ukraine repeatedly trying to target Russia in
	attempt to try and bring the war home to the Kremlin and to the Russian people
	this is partly because they've been given restrictions on the weapons have
	been supplied by the United States and others and what Ukraine is hoping is
	that those restrictions are going to be lifted US Secretary of State Antony
	Blinken is going to come here to Kiev this week speaking London he confirmed
	that Iran has now transferred ballistic missiles to Russia He's expecting that those are going to be used in the coming weeks.
	He describes this also as a critical moment for Ukraine.
	So all eyes are going to be on tonight's presidential debate.
	Even, apparently, President Zelensky expected to tune in.
	And the outcome, I think, of this presidential debate is going to be critical to the outcome of Ukraine's defense against Russia's invasion.
	Martha?
	Thanks so much, Ian.
	And Ian and I have both spent a great deal of time in Afghanistan, John, as you know, and that will be a key issue tonight.
	Former President Trump has been slamming the Biden-Harris administration for that disastrous withdrawal, the way it was done.
	Hey, look, let's say it bluntly.
	It was a dark moment for the Biden campaign, for the Biden presidency.
	It might be the darkest moment of his presidency.
	In fact, the Republicans have now given the Congressional Medal of Honor.
	Not the Medal of Honor.
	They announced... Medal of Freedom.
	Congressional Medal of Freedom, yes.
	You know, to the 13 service members who died at Abbey Gate in Afghanistan.
	And one thing, if you look at that moment, so that withdrawal from Afghanistan happened in August of 2021.
	The other thing that happened in August of 2021 was that Joe Biden became an unpopular president.
	His popularity, his favorability ratings went below 50%.
	They never came back.
	But Joe Biden was also at the time saying, this would not be like Saigon.
	We also saw those images of that.
	It's hard to play that down.
	If you're the president, it's hard to call that a success.
	And Mary, let's go back to Israel and Gaza.
	A key issue also for Kamala Harris.
	And a very, very fine line she has to walk.
	A very fine line.
	And this is one of those rare issues where she is taking a notably different tone.
	from the president.
	She has been much more forceful in speaking out about the humanitarian crisis in Gaza, stressing, yes, of course, Israel has a right to defend itself, but saying Palestinians also have the right to dignity, security, and freedom.
	Now, policy-wise, she is largely vowing to continue the policies of the Biden administration, but there is no question, on this issue, she is facing the most pressure from Democratic voters.
	I've been at nearly every Harris rally so far, and at almost every one, she is interrupted by protesters.
	Eager to make their voices heard on it.
	They will be listening closely.
	Very strong voting bloc there too, Rachel.
	Yeah, they're gonna be listening to that message.
	Alright, so coming up, Senator Tom Cotton and Governor Josh Shapiro are standing by with just about 20 minutes until the debate.
	Stay with us.
	[BLANK_AUDIO]
	Hello guys, so thank you very much for joining me.
	Sorry I was late, I wasn't awake yet.
	And let's watch the stream on ABC.
	Let's have the audio on the floor This is bear
	Look, I'm not sure what world's...
	How you doing on Rumble?
	This is the actual live news coverage.
	In charge the only thing we have more of in this country was more chaos
	I think under Kamala Harris You're gonna see someone who's compassionate who cares
	deeply about the welfare of all Americans no matter what they look like where they come from
	Who they love who they pray to and he can this is the actual?
	live news coverage Somewhat biased
	Strong vision for the nation and prosecute the case effectively against Donald Trump tonight
	You mentioned the case against Trump. What about Joe Biden?
	How does she go about building off of their record but making clear to voters who are concerned that she won't
	just be back to point?
	so like my assumption was that
	What we'd watch on here would be so broadly unbiased but straight away if you don't watch a lot of mainstream
	Kamala Harris.
	News.
	It's staggering isn't it?
	Yes.
	What she wants to do for this nation.
	Elections are about the future and Kamala Harris's vision for the future is a stark
	contrast to the dangerous vision of the future that Donald Trump had.
	One of less freedom and more chaos under Donald Trump.
	I would like a little bit more chaos and a bit less freedom.
	Right, so we've talked to surrogates from both campaigns.
	So, um, thank you very much for joining me, Anbeer, and Gareth Roy, off-camera, who's assisting me with some insights.
	prepare for big debates with tonight's showdown less than 14 minutes away.
	I've mainly been watching X, and the various feeds from that.
	It's interesting what just happened then, was... Cool, the, um, audio outcome just while I'm listening to Gareth, guys.
	Trump's been saying how ABC are gonna be really biased against him, and they've said, no, of course not, and then just watched that.
	That coverage was sort of unbelievable.
	It's... just in the most ordinary way, normalising the idea that a future under Trump is dangerous, as they just explicitly said.
	And Kamala Harris has a positive vision.
	Just so you guys know this, this is not sort of a, by any means, an excuse.
	We're so excited to be here with you.
	Like, when I woke up at one o'clock in the morning, went to sleep, and woke up at one o'clock in the morning, it's so beautiful.
	Such beautiful stars.
	I'm completely delirious, singing.
	I'm gonna go and watch this debate between Kamala Harris and Donald Trump.
	The whole thing just doesn't actually quite seem real, so you'll have to bear that in mind when listening to some of my insights.
	And bear is a German shepherd.
	That's responding to a comment.
	That last bit wasn't mental illness.
	Sup, Quantum Nova?
	What's up?
	Tay Kimble Brooks, Freaky Monday.
	How's it going?
	Lapa Nick.
	So what we're going to do is we're going to watch the debate together, sometimes in bafflement, sometimes in awe, and let us know what you lot think.
	While you're watching along with us, I would like to say exclusively on Rumble, but of course the debate itself will be being widely streamed, I imagine, on ABC with what amounts to astonishing amounts of casual, easy propaganda.
	A few things that you have to kind of check yourself around.
	No one's talking about Covid and what happened in the pandemic and how extraordinary it was.
	No one is talking about the various terrifying conflicts that are taking place around the world.
	I'm saying no one, I mean no one in media.
	And if you watched, I don't know if you've seen any of Eric Weinstein's performances, appearances lately, it's like he's just saying like, you know, we're Edging towards thermonuclear war as if it's ain't no thing.
	So there's a few things to consider.
	Thank you, Luke the dog.
	Thank you so much.
	What a beautiful compliment.
	Thank you very much.
	Um, is the, uh, can we put the, well, let's have, uh, ABC's content in this small in, in pip in the small screen, please guys for the output and this, or let's have it on at all times.
	And actually this, and let's go to it now with audio.
	Whose coverage is that?
	Do you want to look?
	The latest news is that Kamala Harris is going to have a mini podium compared to Trump's.
	She's going to go for a little podium?
	Yeah.
	Right, this just in.
	Kamala Harris's podium is regarded to be a mini podium.
	We can confirm that now.
	It's a podium, a diminutive one.
	Elegant, is the way I'm going to describe it.
	Can we have audio on the law please?
	We'll do that.
	That's just... That's what the news is, really.
	really. Yeah, let's leave that now with audio. What's the output that we're watching on there
	that's calling itself ABC Live?
	And I'm Jonathan Carlton, Mary Bruce and Rachel Scott.
	The candidates are just off the stage.
	Well it's different from what we're watching.
	They're in their hold rooms just minutes from making.
	You get right in that zone.
	So what's the disparity?
	What's it like?
	Well, it's stressful, but it's also that time you just say, "This is go time."
	You get in your zone.
	You get right in that zone.
	The nominees, the candidates right now are thinking the same thing.
	They've studied. They're going to go out. Open the grid.
	Alright, well then let's bring somebody in who has been there both debating Donald Trump
	and helping him prepare for General Election Day.
	It's Chris Christie.
	Former Governor of New York.
	Listen, I can tell you now, this guy will not do any rehearsals.
	Look, at this point, he's in the worst hour of his prep.
	That's a minute quicker.
	actually does. Bring us into that moment right now. What's going on with Donald Trump?
	Look at this point. He's he's in the worst hour of his prep.
	But that's a minute quicker. They're like a minute ahead there.
	That's what ABC is putting out on their website.
	And this is freezing sometimes, huh?
	This one's freezing less.
	You know what I mean.
	so let me ask you the question yeah let me ask you the question I tried to ask Tom Cotton
	he didn't exactly give me an answer but you will which Trump is going to show up tonight?
	you know what I mean by that you know what I mean
	who exactly are we going to be dealing with?
	I think at the beginning of the debate the Trump who will show up will be the commer Donald Trump
	(laughter)
	inherently in the 2020 first thing as Joe Biden that the other Donald Trump is not the one that's a winning
	formula don't bring him out
	the question is going to be will he be able to continue to maintain that approach
	through questioning by David and Lindsey and through
	(no audio)
	Center in We're on YouTube as well, but we'll be on YouTube maybe for the first 15 minutes.
	Totally angelic.
	I'm here to see your dog.
	Yeah, here's my dog.
	We're gonna pray together.
	I can't do partisan prayer, Dixie Homestead.
	Well, don't do that.
	instilling her as a young lady. Look, she is steady on her feet, still in her resolve, and tonight she should talk to
	the American people. Sit in their living rooms. Sit at their kitchen table. Look, look, look, look. That'd be unnerving.
	Ideas that I want to share with you. There's so much that we have done together over the last four years. But here's
	what I think we can do together over the next four years.
	Be positive in our approach and really remind the American people that we don't want to go back to the chaos and the confusion, the disaster that made, of course, the American people go out in droves in 2020 to fire the former president.
	Say, I want to be a president that lead all Americans.
	I want to keep us strong and secure.
	She's good, that woman.
	That was a good condensation of cliche and without ever touching upon any of the things that might actually concern us.
	We want a good pandemic reckoning.
	We want an end to all wars.
	We don't want Kamala Harris in your kitchen reminding us of her childhood.
	Remember, don't worry about the global wars.
	You get yourself some capped insulin.
	Lauren, I don't have a cutter for this.
	The people who can buy their insulin without paying over a thousand dollars...
	Remember, don't worry about the global wars.
	You get yourself some capped insulin.
	Um, Lauren, um, I don't have a cutter for this.
	Have you seen one anywhere?
	...not dragged back to another era.
	And, and, Lawrence, I want your thoughts on...
	prepped Donald Trump for debates back in 2016.
	I believe...
	What will he be doing right now with three minutes and 27 seconds to go?
	What will Donald Trump do?
	...about talking about policies and what kind of president he will be.
	Well he certainly can be.
	I mean, the reality is Donald Trump doesn't have a lot to lose tonight.
	I mean, his support has always been almost unmovable.
	So, the second piece is the honeymoon, I think, is over for Kamala Harris.
	And you all kind of touched on it with Donna.
	Kamala Harris has to answer for the state of the economy that she took a role in, in the Biden administration.
	the border, you know, her past positions on decriminalizing the border, decriminalizing
	certain drugs, what her role was in Afghanistan. So really the spotlight is on Kamala Harris
	tonight because she played a role in the Biden administration, she wants to act like she's not
	an incumbent. So this is where the focus... That's the first time that there's been anything other
	than unbridled condemnation.
	That sounded somewhat balanced.
	She's in the spotlight, Donald Trump doesn't have a lot to lose.
	Everything else is like, we don't want more chaos and danger and madness.
	And the other thing I enjoyed about watching Eric Weinstein was when he said, like, where's Joe Biden gone?
	Like, has he just been sort of extracted from office?
	When you take a step back, you recognize that what's being normalized is staggering.
	But I also think that, just like he did in the first debate against Joe Biden, I think the formula here... Previous is a Republican, right?
	Yeah.
	Like, so, sort of, partisanship sounds like neutrality.
	So normalised has, um, the, sort of, ongoing democratic bias been on legacy media.
	For those of you joining us live on Rumble, we'll be accompanying you for the debate.
	Let us know your comments, like you.
	We'll be doing this from a British perspective, but also I'm explaining American politics to my dog.
	Now what happens in American politics, Bear, Unlike British or canine politics, is the legacy media roots for one side.
	And because that party once had better values in, say, I don't know, the 1960s, we all pretend it's not been captured by the military-industrial complex and pharmaceutical industry.
	Does that make sense to you?
	Or if it does, we'll be streaming throughout the debate.
	Remember, in my country, well not my country, I just live in it, It's quite late at night now and I'm delirious.
	I'm so delirious I can't even set fire to this in all good faith.
	Hey, Miss Vale.
	Hey, called the sun.
	Hey, Earthlight Promotions.
	Let me know if anything unusual happens on X-Gal.
	Not unusual, informative.
	So I've got Joy Reid talking about how Trump is the oldest person to ever run for president, which is hilarious, really.
	Oldest person?
	She's criticizing Trump.
	She's like, he's the oldest person to ever run for president.
	They keep forgetting about Biden, don't they?
	It's like he literally is just deleted from history now.
	Because I remember Joy Reid, oh wicked, nice one mate.
	Joy Reid in particular was one of those people that said like, you know, I will vote for a dead Joe Biden over, over Donald Trump.
	And like the issue of age, oh that's so brilliant, I'm so glad that you found that and surprised actually.
	Thanks Lauren.
	Like it was like it was verbodent.
	Uh oh, it is sideways head man.
	Oh no, what's his name again?
	Eric Weir.
	Alan Weir.
	David Muir.
	David Muir.
	I had a rhyme of it.
	David Muir.
	Look, put your head forward.
	Now he's got someone next to him to the side.
	He's more sideways than ever.
	David, face the front.
	Imagine being David Muir's fourth grade teacher all day long.
	Face the front, David.
	For me, this is as front as I go.
	I will not face the front and I will not face the facts on ABC News.
	Oh dear, right.
	Another clip on X. You can see why they want to delete Biden.
	Biden's been interviewed about the debate and he said, oh Kamala's gonna do great and tomorrow I'll be doing 9-11.
	Oh no!
	Don't do another 9-11!
	That was a catastrophe!
	We all remember that.
	Totally angelic.
	A long time fan of you, Russell.
	First time ever interacting in a chat.
	I'm so grateful for your content.
	Thank you for coming in here.
	You're very welcome.
	We're doing the news on ABC.
	We're taking a sideways look at the news, quite literally, because I've crooked my neck and I always face... Is it his nose, in fact?
	If I was that anchor lady, I'd get him by the chin and I'd rotate him 10-15 degrees to the front.
	This is what they're saying now.
	I do love propaganda.
	For Vice President Kamala Harris, this is her first debate since President Biden withdrew from the race on July 21st.
	Of course, that decision followed his debate against President Donald Trump in June.
	Since then, this race has taken on an entirely new dynamic.
	And that brings us to the rules of tonight's debate.
	90 minutes with two commercial breaks.
	No topics or questions have been shared with the campaigns.
	The candidates will have two minutes to answer questions, and this is the clock.
	That's what they'll be seeing.
	Two minutes for rebuttals, and one minute for follow-ups, clarifications, or responses.
	Their microphones will only be turned on when it's their turn to speak.
	No pre-written notes allowed.
	There is no audience here tonight in this hall at the National Constitution Centre.
	This is an intimate setting for two candidates who have never met.
	President Trump won the coin toss, he chose to deliver the final...
	Everyone gets so absolutely excited about this stuff, like sideways head man David Muir.
	This is a debate in an intimate setting.
	You think this is an intimate debate?
	Look at this debate.
	Me, a blanket, bear, in England, in the middle of the night, live watch along.
	Join us.
	Come on over to Rumble.
	Join this giddy, giddy chat for this glorious debate.
	Oh my god, I can't wait.
	It's like they're really shaking hands.
	Let's go.
	Good luck.
	to have you it's an honor to have you both here tonight good evening we are
	War?
	looking forward to a spirited and thoughtful debate so let's get started
	good luck is their number one issue and that is the economy and the
	cost of living in this country vice president Harris you and more four years
	ago and your opponent on the stage here tonight often asks his
	supporters are you better off than you were four years ago when it comes to the economy I
	believe Americans are better off that they were four years ago so I
	was raised as a middle-class kid
	And I am actually the only person on this stage who has a plan that is about lifting up the middle class and working people.
	Gotta raise them up!
	I believe in the ambition, the aspirations, the dreams of the American people.
	And that is why I imagine and have actually a plan to build what I call an opportunity economy.
	Because here's the thing.
	We know that we have a shortage of homes and housing.
	And the cost of housing is too expensive for our... You might observe at this point the 2019...
	Policies.
	The 2019 policies are so distinct from the rhetoric in 2024 that one wonders if there is a clear vision or any consistency.
	I'm speaking specifically about Kamala.
	Now watch Donald Trump's face.
	What's he coming for?
	for their children. My passion, one of them, is small businesses. I was actually, my
	mother raised my sister and me, but there was a woman who helped raise us, we call
	her our second mother, she was a small business owner. She was a small business
	owner, she was a mouse, it was a mouse business, she was selling cheese from a
	mouse hole. I care about mouses. To start up small businesses, knowing they are part of the
	backbone of America's economy. A lot of people in the chat saying Kamala's dodging the
	question. His plan is to do what he has done before, which is to provide a tax cut for
	billionaires and big corporations, which will result in five trillion dollars to
	America's deficit. I will say, her hair looks great. I call the Trump sales tax,
	which would be a 20% tax on everyday goods that you rely on to get through
	the month.
	Economists have said that that Trump sales tax would actually result for middle class families in about $4,000 a year.
	He don't like this Trump sales tax being criticised, gal.
	He's got comebacks.
	If that mic weren't muted... ...the backs of middle class people paying for tax cuts for billionaires.
	President Trump, I'll give you two minutes.
	First of all, I have no sales tax.
	That's an incorrect statement.
	She knows that.
	We're doing tariffs on other countries.
	Other countries are going to finally, after 75 years, pay us back for all that we've done
	for the world.
	And the tariff will be substantial in some cases.
	I took in billions and billions of dollars, as you know, from China.
	In fact, they never took the tariff off because it was so much money they can't.
	It would totally destroy everything that they've set out to do.
	They're taking in billions of dollars from China and other places they've left the tariffs on.
	When I had it, I had tariffs and yet I had no inflation.
	Look, we've had a terrible economy because inflation has, which is really known as a Inflation.
	Now he's got inflation plus he's hitting the word tariff very hard.
	You know, them tariffs, that's the bloodbath statement.
	I think already she's done a bit of scratchy face nervousness.
	They've gone on to the single on Trump.
	I think because Kamala looks nervous.
	been a disaster for people for the middle class but for every class on top
	of that we have millions of people pouring into our country from all
	straightened with immigration institutions and insane asylum and
	they're coming in and they're taking jobs that are occupied right now in a
	way if they can go straight from a mental institution into a steady job
	you've got to say they're doing good work at the institution and you see
	what's happening you see what's happening with towns throughout the
	United States you look at Springfield Ohio you look at Aurora in Colorado they
	are taking over the towns they're taking over buildings they're going in violently
	these are the people that she and I'll just say, this is my first impression, that Kamala attempts to evoke a folksy, homey, homespun feel from her own childhood.
	We had this friend who ran a small business and I'm gonna support ordinary people.
	This is sort of like an optimistic but vague offering.
	Trump is able to offer you a sort of this depiction of the dystopia that we feel like we're experiencing.
	Mass immigration, towns falling apart.
	Donald Trump left us.
	Donald Trump left us the worst unemployment since the Great Depression.
	Donald Trump left us the worst public health epidemic in a century.
	Donald Trump left us the worst attack on our democracy since the Civil War.
	And what we have done is clean up Donald Trump's mess.
	What we have done and what I intend to do is build on what we know are the aspirations and the hopes of the American people.
	But I'm going to tell you on this debate tonight, you're going to hear from the same old tired playbook.
	A bunch of lies, grievances, and name-calling.
	What you're going to hear tonight is a detailed and dangerous plan called Project 2025 that the former president intends on implementing if he were elected again.
	I believe very strongly that the American people want a president who understands the importance of bringing us together, knowing we have so much more in common than what separates us, And I pledge to you to be a president for all Americans.
	President Trump will give you a minute here to respond.
	Number one, I have nothing to do, as you know, and as she knows better than anyone, I have nothing to do with Project 2025.
	That's out there.
	I haven't read it.
	I don't want to read it, purposely.
	I'm not going to read it.
	This was a group of people that got together.
	They came up with some ideas.
	I guess some good, some bad.
	But it makes no difference.
	I have nothing to do.
	Everybody knows I'm an open book.
	Everybody knows what I'm going to do.
	Taxes very substantially and create a great economy like I did before.
	We had the greatest economy.
	We got hit with a pandemic and the pandemic was not since 1917 where 100 million people died.
	Has there been anything like it?
	We did a phenomenal job with the pandemic.
	We handed them over a country where the economy and where the stock market was higher than it was before the pandemic came in.
	Nobody's ever seen anything like it.
	We made ventilators for the entire world.
	We got gowns.
	We got masks.
	We did things that nobody thought possible.
	And people give me credit for rebuilding the military.
	They give me credit for a lot of things, but not enough credit for the great job we did with the pandemic.
	But the only jobs they got were bounce-back jobs.
	These were jobs bounce-back, and it bounced back and went to their benefit, but I was the one that created them.
	They know it, and so does everybody else.
	Donald Trump has no plan for you.
	And when you look at his economic plan, it's all about tax breaks for the richest people.
	I am offering what I describe as an opportunity economy, and the best economists in our country, if not the world, have reviewed our relative plans for the future of America.
	What Goldman Sachs has said is that Donald Trump's plan would make the economy worse, mine would strengthen the economy.
	What the Wharton School has said is Donald Trump's plan Would actually explode the deficit.
	16 Nobel laureates have described his economic plan as something that would increase inflation and by the middle of next year would invite a recession.
	You just have to look at where we are and where we stand on the issues.
	And I'd invite you to know that Donald Trump actually has no plan for you because he is
	more interested in defending himself than he is in looking out for you.
	It's just a soundbite.
	Thank you for that to say.
	Look, I went to the Wharton School of Finance and many of those professors, the top professors,
	think my plan is a brilliant plan.
	It's a great plan.
	It's a plan that's going to bring up our worth, our value as a country.
	It's going to make people want to be able to go and work and create jobs and create
	a lot of good, solid money for our country.
	And just to finish off, she doesn't have a plan.
	She copied Biden's plan, and it's like four sentences, like run, spot, run.
	Four sentences that are just, oh, we'll try and lower taxes.
	She doesn't have a plan.
	Take a look at her plan.
	She doesn't have a plan.
	Mr. President, I do want to drill down on something you both brought up.
	The Vice President brought up your tariffs.
	You responded, and let's drill down on this, because your plan is what she calls essentially a national sales tax.
	Your proposal calls for tariffs, as you pointed out here, on foreign imports across the board.
	You recently said that you might double your plan, imposing tariffs up to 20% on goods coming into this country.
	As you know, many economists say that with tariffs at that level, costs are then passed on to the consumer.
	Vice President Harris has argued it'll mean higher prices on gas, food, clothing, medication, arguing it costs the typical family nearly $4,000 a year.
	Do you believe Americans can afford higher prices because of tariffs?
	They're not going to have higher prices.
	What's going to happen, who's going to have higher prices, is China and all of the countries that have been ripping us off for years.
	I charge, I was the only president ever China was paying us hundreds of billions of dollars and so were other countries and you know if she doesn't like him they should have gone out and they should have immediately cut the tariffs but those tariffs are there three and a half years now under their administration.
	We are going to take in billions of dollars, hundreds of billions of dollars.
	I had no inflation, virtually no inflation.
	They had the highest inflation perhaps in the history of our country because I've never
	seen a worse period of time.
	People can't go out and buy cereal or bacon or eggs or anything else.
	The people of our country are absolutely dying with what they've done.
	They've destroyed the economy and all you have to do is look at a poll.
	The polls say 80 and 85 and even 90 percent that the Trump economy was great that their economy was terrible.
	Vice President Harris I do want to ask for your response and you heard what the president said there because the Biden administration did keep a number of the Trump tariffs in place so how do you respond?
	Well, let's be clear that the Trump administration resulted in a trade deficit, one of the highest we've ever seen in the history of America.
	He invited trade wars.
	You want to talk about his deal with China, what he ended up doing is under Donald Trump's presidency, he ended up selling American chips to China.
	To help them improve and modernize their military basically sold us out when a policy about China should be in making sure the United States of America wins the competition for the 21st century.
	Which means focusing on the details of what that requires.
	Focusing on relationships with our allies.
	Focusing on investing in American-based technology so that we win the race on AI, on quantum computing.
	Focusing on what we need to do to support America's workforce so that we don't end up having, on the short end of the stick, in terms of workers' rights.
	But what Donald Trump did, let's talk about this, with COVID, is he actually thanked President Xi for what he did during COVID.
	Look at his tweet.
	Thank you President Xi!
	When we know that she was responsible for lacking and not giving us transparency about the origins of COVID.
	President Trump, I'll let you respond.
	First of all, they bought the chips from Taiwan.
	We hardly make chips anymore because of philosophies like they have and policies like they have.
	I don't say her because she has no policy.
	Everything that she believed three years ago and four years ago is out the window.
	She's going to my philosophy now.
	In fact, I was going to send her a MAGA hat.
	She's gone to my philosophy.
	But if she ever got elected, she'd change it.
	And it will be the end of our country.
	She's a Marxist.
	Everybody knows she's a Marxist.
	Her father is a Marxist professor in economics, and he taught her well.
	But when you look at what she's done to our country, and when you look at these millions and millions of people that are pouring into our country monthly, where it's, I believe, 21 million people, not the 15 that people say, and I think it's a lot higher than the 21, that's bigger than New York State pouring in.
	And just look at what they're doing to our country.
	They're criminals.
	Many of these people coming in are criminals.
	And that's bad for our economy, too.
	You know, you mentioned before, we'll talk about immigration later.
	Well, bad immigration is the worst thing that can happen to our economy.
	They have, and she has, destroyed our country with policy that's insane.
	Almost policy that you'd say they have to hate our country.
	I want to turn to the issue of abortion.
	President Trump, you've often touted that you were able to kill Roe v. Wade last year.
	You said that you were proud to be the most pro-life president in American history.
	Then last month, you said that your administration would be great for women and their reproductive rights.
	In your home state of Florida, you surprised many with regard to your six-week abortion ban because you initially had said that it was too short.
	And you said, quote, I'm going to be voting that we need More than six weeks.
	But then, the very next day, you reversed course and said you would vote to support the six-week ban.
	Vice President Harris says that women shouldn't trust you on the issue of abortion because you've changed your position so many times.
	Therefore, why should they trust you?
	Well, the reason I'm doing that vote is because the plan is, as you know the vote is,
	they have abortion in the ninth month.
	They even have, and you can look at the governor of West Virginia, the previous governor of
	West Virginia, not the current governor, is doing an excellent job, but the governor before,
	he said the baby will be born and we will decide what to do with the baby.
	In other words, we'll execute the baby.
	And that's why I did that, because that predominates.
	Because they're radical.
	The Democrats are radical in that.
	And her vice-presidential pick, which I think is a horrible pick, by the way, for our country, because he is really out of it.
	But her vice-presidential pick...
	It's absolutely fine.
	He also says execution after birth.
	It's execution, no longer abortion, because the baby is born is okay.
	And that's not okay with me, hence the vote.
	But what I did is something for 52 years they've been trying to get Roe v. Wade into the states.
	And through the genius and heart and strength of six Supreme Court justices, we were able to do that.
	Now, I believe in the exceptions for rape, incest, and life of the mother.
	I believe strongly in it.
	Ronald Reagan did also.
	Eighty-five percent of Republicans do.
	Exceptions.
	Very important.
	But we were able to get it, and now states are voting on it.
	And for the first time, you're going to see—look, this is an issue that's torn our country apart for 52 years.
	Every legal scholar, every Democrat, every Republican, liberal, conservative, they all wanted this issue to be brought back to the states where the people could vote.
	And that's what happened.
	Happened.
	Now, Ohio?
	The vote was somewhat liberal.
	Kansas, the vote was somewhat liberal.
	Much more liberal than people would have thought.
	But each individual state is voting.
	It's the vote of the people now.
	It's not tied up in the federal government.
	I did a great service in doing it.
	It took courage to do it.
	And the Supreme Court had great courage in doing it.
	And I give tremendous credit to those six justices.
	There is no state in this country where it is legal to kill a baby after it's born.
	Madam Vice President, I want to get your response to President Trump.
	Well, as I said, you're going to hear a bunch of lies, and that's not actually a surprising fact.
	Let's understand how we got here.
	Donald Trump hand-selected three members of the United States Supreme Court with the intention that they would undo the protections of Roe v. Wade.
	And they did exactly as he intended.
	And now in over 20 states, there are Trump abortion bans, which make it criminal for a doctor or nurse to provide healthcare.
	In one state, it provides prison for life.
	Trump abortion bans that make no exception even for rape and incest, which understand what that means.
	A survivor of a crime, a violation to their body, does not have the right to make a decision about what happens to their body next.
	That is immoral.
	And one does not have to abandon their faith or deeply held beliefs to agree.
	The government and Donald Trump certainly should not be telling a woman what to do with her body.
	I have talked with women around our country.
	You want to talk about this is what people wanted?
	Pregnant women who want to carry a pregnancy to term, suffering from a miscarriage, being denied care in an emergency room because the health care providers are afraid they might go to jail, and she's bleeding out in a car in the parking lot.
	She didn't want that.
	Her husband didn't want that.
	A 12 or 13 year old survivor of incest being forced to carry a pregnancy to term.
	They don't want that.
	And I pledge to you, when Congress passes a bill to put back in place the protections of Roe v. Wade as President of the United States, I will proudly sign it into law.
	But understand, if Donald Trump were to be re-elected, He will sign a national abortion ban.
	Understand in his project 2025, there would be a national abortion, a monitor that would be monitoring your pregnancies, your miscarriages.
	I think the American people believe that certain freedoms, in particular the freedom to make decisions about one's own body, should not be made by the government.
	Thank you Vice President Harris.
	Well there she goes again.
	It's a lie.
	I'm not signing a ban and there's no reason to sign a ban because we've gotten what everybody wanted.
	Democrats, Republicans and everybody else and every legal scholar wanted it to be brought back into the states and the states are voting and it may take a little time But for 52 years, this issue has torn our country apart.
	And they wanted it back in the states.
	And I did something that nobody thought was possible.
	The states are now voting.
	What she says is an absolute lie.
	And as far as the abortion ban, no, I'm not in favor of abortion ban, but it doesn't matter because this issue has now been taken over by the states.
	Would you veto a national abortion ban if it came to your desk?
	Well, I won't have to because, again, two things.
	Number one, she said she'll go back to Congress.
	She'll never get the vote.
	It's impossible for her to get the vote, especially now with 50-50, essentially 50-50 in both Senate and the House.
	She's not going to get the vote.
	She can't get the vote.
	She won't even come close to it.
	So it's just talk.
	You know what it reminds me of?
	When they said they're going to get student loans terminated and it ended up being a total catastrophe.
	The student loans.
	And then her, I think probably her boss, if you call him a boss, he spends all his time on the beach.
	But look, Her boss went out and said, we'll do it again, we'll do it a different way.
	And he went out, got rejected again by the Supreme Court.
	So all these students got taunted with this whole thing about, this whole idea.
	And how unfair that would have been, part of the reason they lost, to the millions and millions of people that had to pay off their student loans.
	They didn't get it for free.
	But they were saying, it's the same way that they talked about that, that they talk about abortion.
	But if I could just get a yes or no, because you're running me, J.D.
	Vance has said that you would veto if it did come to your desk.
	Well, I didn't discuss it with J.D.
	In all fairness, J.D., and I don't mind if he has a certain view, but I think he was speaking for me, but I really didn't.
	We don't have to discuss it because she'd never be able to get it, just like she couldn't get student loans.
	They couldn't get student loans.
	They didn't even come close to getting student loans.
	They taunted young people and a lot of other people that had loans.
	They can never get this approved.
	So it doesn't matter what she says about going to Congress.
	Oh, wonderful.
	Let's go to Congress.
	Do it.
	But the fact is that for years they wanted to get it out of Congress and out of the federal government.
	And we did something that everybody said couldn't be done.
	And now you have a vote of the people on abortion.
	Vice President Harris, I want to give you your time to respond, but I do want to ask, would you support any restrictions on a woman's right to an abortion?
	I absolutely support reinstating the protections of Roe v. Wade, and as you rightly mentioned, nowhere in America Is a woman carrying a pregnancy to term and asking for an abortion.
	That is not happening.
	It's insulting to the women of America.
	And understand what has been happening under Donald Trump's abortion bans.
	Couples who pray and dream of having a family are being denied IVF treatments.
	What is happening in our country?
	Working people, working women, who are working one or two jobs, who can barely afford child care as it is, have to travel to another state to get on a plane sitting next to strangers to go and get the health care she needs.
	Barely can afford to do it, and what you are putting her through is unconscionable.
	And the people of America have not—the majority of Americans believe in a woman's right to make decisions about her own body, and that is why in every state where this issue has been on the ballot, in red and blue states both, the people of America have voted for freedom.
	I have been a leader on IVF, which is fertilization.
	I have been a leader.
	In fact, when they got a very negative decision on IVF from the Alabama courts, I saw the people of Alabama and the legislature two days later voted it in.
	I've been a leader on it.
	They know that and everybody else knows it.
	I have been a leader on fertilization IVF.
	And the other thing, they, you should ask, will she allow abortion in the eighth month, ninth month, seventh month?
	Come on.
	Okay, would you do that?
	Why don't you ask her that question?
	That's the problem.
	Because under Roe v. Wade, you could do abortions in the seventh month, the eighth month, the ninth month, and probably after birth.
	Just look at the former governor of Virginia.
	The governor of Virginia said, we put the baby aside and then we determine what we want to do with the baby.
	President Trump, thank you.
	We're going to turn now to immigration and border security.
	We know it's an issue that's important to Republicans, Democrats, voters across the board in this country.
	Vice President Harris, you were tasked by President Biden with getting to the root causes of migration from Central America.
	We know that illegal border crossings reached a record high in the Biden administration.
	This past June, President Biden imposed tough new asylum restrictions.
	We know the numbers since then have dropped significantly.
	But my question to you tonight is why did the administration wait until six months before the election to act?
	And would you have done anything differently for President Biden on this?
	So I'm the only person on this stage who has prosecuted transnational criminal organizations for the trafficking of guns, drugs, and human beings.
	And let me say that the United States Congress, including some of the most conservative members of the United States Senate, came up with a border security bill which I supported.
	And that bill would have put 1,500 more border agents on the border to help those folks who are working there right now over time trying to do their job.
	It would have allowed us to stem the flow of fentanyl coming into the United States.
	I know there are so many families watching tonight who have been personally affected.
	By the surge of fentanyl in our country.
	That bill would have put more resources to allow us to prosecute transnational criminal organizations for trafficking in guns, drugs, and human beings.
	But you know what happened to that bill?
	Donald Trump got on the phone, called up some folks in Congress, and said, kill the bill.
	And you know why?
	Because he'd prefer to run on a problem instead of fixing a problem.
	And understand, this comes at a time where the people of our country actually need a leader who engages in solutions, who actually addresses the problems at hand.
	But what we have in the former president is someone who would prefer to run on a problem instead of fixing a problem.
	And I'll tell you something, he's going to talk about immigration a lot tonight, even when it's not the subject that is being raised.
	And I'm going to actually do something really unusual, and I'm going to invite you to attend one of Donald Trump's rallies, because it's a really interesting thing to watch.
	You will see during the course of his rallies, he talks about fictional characters like Hannibal Lecter.
	He will talk about when mills cause cancer.
	And what you will also notice is that people start leaving his rallies early, out of exhaustion and boredom.
	And I will tell you, the one thing you will not hear him talk about is you.
	You will not hear him talk about your needs, your dreams, and your desires.
	And I'll tell you, I believe you deserve a president who actually puts you first.
	And I pledge to you that I will.
	Vice President Harris, thank you.
	President Trump, on that point, I want to get your response.
	Well, I would like to respond.
	Let me just ask though, why did you try to kill that bill, and successfully so, that would have put thousands of additional agents and officers on the board?
	First let me respond is to the rallies.
	She said people start leaving.
	People don't go to her rallies.
	There's no reason to go.
	He's offended by the rally thing.
	He doesn't like that.
	And then showing them in a different light.
	So she can't talk about that.
	People don't leave my rallies.
	The biggest rallies, the most incredible rallies in the history of politics.
	That's because people want to take their country back.
	Our country is being lost.
	We're a failing nation.
	And it happened three and a half years ago.
	And what's going on here, you're going to end up in World War III, just to go into another subject.
	What they have done to our country by allowing these millions and millions of people to come into our country and look at what's happening to the towns all over the United States.
	And a lot of towns don't want to talk.
	It's not going to be Aurora or Springfield.
	A lot of towns don't want to talk about it because they're so embarrassed by it.
	In Springfield, they're eating the dogs, the people that came in.
	They're eating the cats.
	They're eating They're eating the pets of the people that live there.
	And this is what's happening in our country.
	And it's a shame.
	As far as rallies are concerned, as far as... The reason they go is they like what I say.
	They want to bring our country back.
	They want to make America great again.
	It's a very simple phrase.
	Make America great again.
	She's destroying this country.
	And if she becomes president, this country doesn't have a chance of success.
	Not only success, We'll end up being Venezuela on steroids.
	I just want to clarify here.
	You bring up Springfield, Ohio, and ABC News did reach out to the city manager there.
	He told us there had been no credible reports of specific claims of pets being harmed, injured, or abused by individuals within the immigrant community.
	Well, I've seen people on television!
	Let me just say here...
	My dog was taken and used for food, so maybe he said that and maybe that's a good thing to say for a city manager.
	I'm not taking this from television.
	I'm taking it from the city manager.
	I don't trust television.
	You can't rely on those guys.
	They don't even face the front.
	You talk about extreme.
	You know, this is I think one of the reasons why in this election I actually have the endorsement of 200 Republicans who have formally worked with President Bush, Mitt Romney, as well as numerous cats and dogs.
	Former Vice President Dick Cheney and Congressmember Liz Cheney.
	And if you want to really know the inside track on who the former president is, if he didn't make it clear already, just ask people who have worked with him.
	His former Chief of Staff, a four-star general, has said he has contempt for the Constitution of the United States.
	His former National Security Advisor has said he is dangerous and unfit.
	I think reveling in the Bush-Cheney endorsements, former Bush staffers and the Cheney family is where you see how the Democratic Party is repoed as a party of war.
	And I wonder if the subject of war will come up.
	you a quick minute to respond. Thank you because when I hear that, see I'm a
	different kind of a person. I fired most of those people, not so graciously. They
	did bad things or a bad job. I fired them. They never fired one person. They didn't
	fire anybody having to do with Afghanistan and the Taliban and the 13
	people who were just killed, viciously and violently killed.
	And I got to know the parents and the family.
	They didn't fire—they should have fired all those generals, all those top people, because that was one of the most incompetently handled situations anybody has ever seen.
	So, when somebody does a bad job, I fire them.
	And you take a guy like Esper.
	He was no good.
	I fired him.
	So he writes a book.
	Another one writes a book, because with me they can write books.
	With nobody else can they.
	But they have done such a poor job, and they never fire anybody.
	Look at the economy.
	Look at the inflation.
	They didn't fire any of their economists.
	They have the same people.
	That's a good way not to have books written about you.
	But just to finish, I got more votes than any Republican in history by far.
	In fact, I got more votes than any president, sitting president, in history by far.
	Let me continue on immigration.
	It was what you wanted to talk about earlier, so let's get back to your deportation proposal that the Vice President has reacted to as well.
	President Trump, you call this the largest domestic deportation operation in the history of our country.
	You say you would use the National Guard.
	You say if things get out of control, you'd have no problem using the U.S.
	military.
	You also said you would use local police.
	How would you deport 11 million undocumented immigrants?
	I know you believe that number is much higher.
	Well, take us through this.
	What does this look like?
	Will authorities be going door-to-door in this country?
	It is much higher because of them.
	They allowed criminals, many, many millions of criminals.
	They allowed terrorists.
	They allowed common street criminals.
	They allowed people to come in, drug dealers, to come into our country, and they're now in the United States and told by their countries, like Venezuela, don't ever come back or we're going to kill you.
	Do you know that crime in Venezuela and crime in countries all over the world is way down?
	You know why?
	Because they've taken their criminals off the street and they've given them to her to
	put into our country.
	And this will be one of the greatest mistakes in history for them to allow, and I think
	they probably did it because they think they're going to get votes, but it's not worth it
	because they're destroying the fabric of our country by what they've done.
	There's never been anything done like this at all.
	They've destroyed the fabric of our country.
	Millions of people let in.
	And all over the world, crime is down all over the world except here.
	Crime here is up and through the roof, despite their fraudulent statements that they made.
	Crime in this country is through the roof.
	And we have a new form of crime, it's called migrant crime.
	And it's happening at levels that nobody thought possible.
	President Trump, as you know, the FBI says overall violent crime is actually coming down on this country.
	Excuse me, the FBI defrauded.
	They were defrauding statements.
	They didn't include the worst cities.
	They didn't include the cities with the worst crime.
	It was a fraud, just like their number of 818,000 jobs that they said they created turned out to be a fraud.
	President Trump, thank you.
	I'll let you respond, Vice President Harris.
	Well, I think this is so rich, coming from someone who has been prosecuted.
	for national security crimes, economic crimes, election interference, has been found liable for sexual assault, and his next big court appearance is in November at his own criminal sentencing.
	And let's be clear, where each person stands on the issue of what is important about respect for the rule of law and respect for law enforcement.
	The former vice president called for defunding federal law enforcement, 45,000 agents, get this, on the day after he was arraigned on 34 felony counts.
	So let's talk about what is important in this race.
	It is important that we move forward, that we turn the page on this same old tired rhetoric and address the needs of the American people.
	Address what we need to do about the housing shortage, which I have a plan for.
	Address what we must do to support our small businesses.
	Address bringing down the price of groceries.
	Frankly, the American people are exhausted with this same old tired playbook.
	Vice President Harris, thank you.
	Excuse me.
	Every one of those cases was started by them against their political opponent.
	And I'm winning most of them, and I will win the rest of the appeal.
	And you saw that with the decision that came down just recently from the Supreme Court.
	I'm winning most of them.
	But those are cases, it's called weaponization.
	Never happened in this country.
	They weaponized the Justice Department.
	Every one of those cases was involved with the DOJ, from Atlanta and Fawny Willis to the Attorney General of New York and the D.A.
	of New York, every one of those cases.
	And then they say, oh, he was — he's a criminal.
	They're the ones that made them go after me.
	By the way, Joe Biden was found essentially guilty on the documents case.
	And what happened in my documents case?
	They said, oh, that's the toughest of them all.
	A complete and total victory.
	Two months ago, it was thrown out.
	It's weaponization, and they used it, and it's never happened in this country.
	They used it to try and win an election.
	They're fake cases.
	President Trump, thank you.
	A really quick response here, Vice President Harris, on this notion of weaponization of the Justice Department.
	Well, let's talk about extreme and understand the context in which this election in 2024 is taking place.
	The United States Supreme Court recently ruled that the former president would essentially be immune from any misconduct if he were to enter the White House again.
	Understand, this is someone who has openly said he would terminate, I'm quoting, terminate the Constitution of the United States.
	That he would weaponize the Department of Justice against his political enemies.
	Someone who has openly expressed disdain for members of our military.
	Understand what it would mean if Donald Trump were back in the White House
	with no guardrails.
	Because certainly we know now the court won't stop him.
	We know J.D. Vance is not going to stop him.
	It's up to the American people to stop him.
	Vice President Harris, in your last run for president...
	Can you weaponize, please?
	This is the one that weaponized, not me.
	She weaponized.
	I probably took a bullet to the head because of the things that they say about me.
	They talk about democracy.
	I'm a threat to democracy.
	They're the threat to democracy.
	With the fake Russia, Russia, Russia investigation, that went nowhere.
	We have a lot to get to.
	Lindsey?
	Vice President Harris, in your last run for president, you said you wanted to ban fracking.
	Now you don't.
	You wanted mandatory government buyback programs for assault weapons.
	Now your campaign says you don't.
	You supported decriminalizing border crossings.
	Now you're taking a harder line.
	I know you say that your values have not changed.
	So then why have so many of your policy positions changed?
	So my values have not changed, and I'm going to discuss at least every point that you've made.
	But in particular, let's talk about fracking because we're here in Pennsylvania.
	I made that very clear in 2020.
	I will not ban fracking.
	I have not banned fracking as Vice President of the United States.
	And in fact, I was the tie-breaking vote on the Inflation Reduction Act, which opened new leases for fracking.
	My position is that we have got to invest in diverse sources of energy so we reduce our reliance on foreign oil.
	We have had the largest increase in domestic oil production in history because of an approach that recognizes that we cannot over rely on foreign oil.
	As it relates to my values, let me tell you, I grew up a middle class kid raised by a hardworking mother.
	Who worked and saved and was able to buy our first home when I was a teenager.
	The values I bring to the importance of home ownership knowing not everybody got handed 400 million dollars on a silver platter and then filed bankruptcy six times.
	It's a value that I bring to my work to say we are going to work with the private sector and home builders to increase 3 million homes, increase by 3 million homes by the end of my first term.
	My work that is related to having a friend when I was in high school who was sexually assaulted by her stepfather.
	And my focus then on protecting women and children from violent crime is based on a value that is deeply grounded in the importance of standing up for those who are most vulnerable.
	My work that is about protecting Social Security and Medicare is based on long-standing work that I have done protecting seniors from scams.
	Didn't protect poor Joe Biden from scams!
	That's one senior who's damned to have his job.
	I'm going to be that president.
	Well, first of all, I wasn't given $400 million.
	I wish I was.
	My father was a Brooklyn builder, Brooklyn-Queens, and a great father, and I learned a lot from him.
	But I was given a fraction of that, a tiny fraction, and I built it into many, many billions of dollars.
	Many, many billions.
	And when people see it, they are even surprised.
	So we don't have to talk about that.
	Fracking?
	She's been against it for 12 years.
	Defund the police?
	She's been against that forever.
	She gave all that stuff up very wrongly very horribly and everybody's laughing at it okay they're all laughing at it she gave up at least 12 and probably 14 or 15 different policies like she was big on defund the police in minnesota she went out wait a minute i'm talking now if you don't mind please does that sound familiar she went out
	...in Minnesota and wanted to let criminals that killed people, that burned down Minneapolis, she went out and raised money to get them out of jail.
	She did things that nobody would ever think of.
	Now she wants to do transgender operations on illegal aliens that are in prison.
	This is a radical left liberal.
	She wants to confiscate your guns, and she will never allow fracking in Pennsylvania.
	If she won the election, fracking in Pennsylvania will end on day one.
	Just to finish, one thing, so important in my opinion.
	So, I got the oil business going like nobody has ever done before.
	They took, when they took over, they got rid of it, started getting rid of it, and the prices were going up the roof.
	They immediately let these guys go to where they were.
	I would have been five times, four times, five times higher because you're talking about three and a half years ago.
	They got it up to where I was because they had no choice because the prices of energy were quadrupling and doubling.
	You saw what happened to gasoline.
	So they said, let's go back to Trump.
	But if she won the election the day after that election, They'll go back to destroying our country and oil will be dead, fossil fuel will be dead.
	We'll go back to windmills and we'll go back to solar, where they need a whole desert to get some energy to come out of.
	You ever see a solar plant?
	By the way, I'm a big fan of solar.
	But they take...
	400, 500 acres of desert soil.
	President Trump, we have a lot of issues that we have to get to.
	We're out of time.
	Thank you.
	Lindsey, thank you.
	We have an election in just 56 days and I want to talk about the peaceful transfer of power, which of course we all know is a cornerstone of our democracy and the role of a president in a moment of crisis.
	Mr. President, on January 6th you told your supporters to march to the Capitol.
	You said you would be right there with them.
	The country and the world saw what played out at the Capitol that that day, the officers coming under attack. Aides in the
	West Wing say you watched it unfold on television off the Oval Office. You did send out
	tweets, but it was more than two hours before you sent out that video message telling
	your supporters to go home. Is there anything you regret about what you did on that day?
	You just said a thing that isn't covered.
	Peacefully and patriotically.
	I said during my speech, not later on.
	Peacefully and patriotically.
	And nobody on the other side was killed.
	Ashley Babbitt was shot by an out-of-control police officer that should have never, ever shot her.
	It's a disgrace.
	But we didn't do this group of people that have been treated so badly.
	I ask, what about all the people that are pouring into our country and killing people that she allowed to pour in?
	She was the Bordezar.
	Remember that.
	She was the Bordezar.
	She doesn't want to be called the Bordezar because she's embarrassed by the Bordezar.
	In fact, she said at the beginning, oh, I'm surprised you're not talking about the Bordezar yet.
	That's because she knows what a bad job they've done.
	What about those people?
	When are they going to be prosecuted?
	When are these people from countries all over the world, not just South America, they're coming in from all over the world, David.
	All over the world.
	And crime rates are down all over the world because of it.
	When are those people going to be prosecuted?
	When are the people that burned down Minneapolis going to be prosecuted?
	Or in Seattle?
	They went into Seattle.
	They took over a big percentage of the city of Seattle.
	When are those people going to be prosecuted?
	But let me just ask you.
	You might ask her that question.
	You were the president.
	You were watching it unfold on television.
	It's a very simple question as we move forward toward another election.
	Is there anything you regret about what you did on that day?
	I had nothing to do with that other than they asked me to make a speech.
	I showed up for a speech.
	I said, I think it's going to be big.
	I went to Nancy Pelosi and the mayor of Washington, D.C.
	and the mayor put it back in writing, as you know.
	I said, you know, this is going to be a very big rally or whatever you want to call it.
	And again, it wasn't done by me.
	It was done by others.
	I said, I'd like to give you 10,000 National Guard or soldiers They rejected me.
	Nancy Pelosi rejected me.
	It was just two weeks ago.
	Her daughter has a tape of her saying she is fully responsible for what happened.
	They want to get rid of that tape.
	It would have never happened if Nancy Pelosi and the mayor of Washington did their jobs.
	I wasn't responsible for security.
	Nancy Pelosi was responsible.
	She didn't do her job.
	The question was about you as president, not about former Speaker Pelosi, but I do want Vice President Harris to respond here.
	I was at the Capitol on January 6th.
	I was the vice president-elect.
	I was also an acting senator.
	I was there.
	And on that day, the President of the United States incited a violent mob to attack our nation's Capitol.
	To desecrate our nation's Capitol.
	On that day, 140 law enforcement officers were injured.
	And some died.
	And understand, the former president has been indicted and impeached for exactly that reason.
	But this is not an isolated situation.
	Let's remember Charlottesville, where there was a mob of people carrying tiki torches, spewing anti-Semitic hate.
	And what did the president then at the time say?
	There were fine people on each side.
	Let's remember.
	That when it came to the Proud Boys, a militia, the president said, the former president said, stand back and stand by.
	So for everyone watching who remembers what January 6th was, I say we don't have to go back.
	Let's not go back.
	We're not going back.
	It's time to turn the page.
	And if that was a bridge too far for you, well, there is a place in our campaign for you to stand.
	For country to stand for our democracy, to stand for rule of law, and to end the chaos, and to end the approach that is about attacking the foundations of our democracy because you don't like the outcome.
	And be clear, on that point, Donald Trump, the candidate, had said in this election there will be a bloodbath if this and the outcome of this election is not to his liking.
	Let's turn the page on this.
	Let's not go back.
	Let's chart a course for the future, and not go backwards to the past.
	Let me just follow up here.
	It was a different term, and it was a term that related to energy, because they have destroyed our energy business.
	That was where Bloodbath was.
	Also, on Charlottesville, that story has been, as you would say, debunked.
	Laura Ingram, Sean Hannity, Jesse, all of these people, they covered it.
	If they go an extra sentence, they will see it was perfect.
	It was debunked in almost every newspaper, but they still bring it up, just like they bring 2025 up.
	They bring all of this stuff up.
	I ask you this, you talk about the Capitol.
	Why are we allowing these millions of people to come through on the southern border?
	How come she's not doing anything?
	And I'll tell you what I would do, and I would be very proud to do it.
	I would say we would both leave this debate right now.
	I'd like to see her go down To Washington D.C.
	during this debate, because we're wasting a lot of time, go down to—because she's been so bad, it's so ridiculous—go down to Washington D.C.
	and let her sign a bill to close up the border, because they have the right to do it.
	They don't need bills.
	They have the right to do it.
	The president of the United States, you'll get him out of bed, you'll wake him up at 4 o'clock in the afternoon, you'll say, come on, come on down to the office, let's sign a bill.
	If he signs a bill that the The border is closed.
	All he has to do is say it to the border patrol, who are phenomenal.
	If they do that, the border is closed.
	Those people are killing many people, unlike J6.
	We talked immigration here tonight.
	I do want to focus on this next issue to both of you, because it really brings us this into focus.
	Truth in these times that we're living in.
	Mr. President, for three and a half years after you lost the 2020 election, you repeatedly falsely claimed that you won, many times saying you won in a landslide.
	In the past couple of weeks leading up to this debate, you have said, quote, you lost by a whisker, that you, quote, didn't quite make it, that you came up a little bit short.
	I said that?
	Are you now acknowledging that you lost in 2020?
	No, I don't acknowledge it at all.
	I said that sarcastically, you know that.
	We said, oh, we lost by a whisker.
	That was said sarcastically.
	Look, There's so much proof.
	All you have to do is look at it.
	And they should have sent it back to the legislatures for approval.
	I got almost 75 million votes, the most votes any sitting president has ever gotten.
	I was told if I got 63, which was what I got in 2016, you can't be beaten.
	The election, people should never be thinking about it.
	Election is fraudulent.
	We need two things.
	We need walls.
	We need, and we have to have it, we have to have borders, and we have to have good elections.
	Our elections are bad.
	And a lot of these illegal immigrants coming in, they're trying to get them to vote.
	They can't even speak English, they don't even know what country they're in practically, and these people are trying to get them to vote.
	And that's why they're allowing them to come into our country.
	I did watch all of these pieces of video.
	I didn't detect the sarcasm, lost by a whisker, we didn't quite make it.
	And we should just point out here as clarification, and you know this, you and your allies, 60 cases in front of many judges, many of them Republican.
	No judge looked at it.
	They said we didn't have standing.
	That's the other thing.
	They said we didn't have standing, a technicality.
	Can you imagine a system Where a person in an election doesn't have standing, the President of the United States doesn't have standing.
	That's how we lost.
	If you look at the facts, and I'd love to have you do a special on it.
	I'll show you Georgia, and I'll show you Wisconsin, and I'll show you Pennsylvania, and I'll show you... We have so many facts and statistics.
	But you know what?
	That doesn't matter.
	Because we have to solve the problem that we have right now.
	That's old news.
	And the problem that we have right now is we have a nation in decline, and they have put it into decline.
	We have a nation that is dying, David.
	Mr. President, thank you.
	Vice President Harris, you heard the President there tonight.
	He said he didn't say that, that he lost by a whisker.
	So he still believes he did not lose the election that was won by President Biden and yourself.
	But I do want to ask you about something that's come up in the last couple of days.
	This was a post from President Trump about this upcoming election just weeks away.
	He said, "When I win, those people who cheated"—and then he lists donors, voters, election officials—"will
	be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, which will include long-term prison sentences."
	One of your campaign's top lawyers responded saying, "We won't let Donald Trump intimidate
	We won't let him suppress the vote.
	Is that what you believe he's trying to do here?
	Donald Trump was fired by 81 million people.
	So let's be clear about that.
	And clearly he is having a very difficult time processing that.
	But we cannot afford to have a president of the United States who attempts, as he did in the past, to upend the will of the
	voters in a free and fair election.
	And I'm going to tell you that I have traveled the world as Vice President of the United
	States, and world leaders are laughing at Donald Trump.
	I have talked with military leaders, some of whom work with you, and they say you're
	a disgrace.
	[BLANK_AUDIO]
	And when you then talk in this way in a presidential debate and deny what over and over again are court cases you have lost because you did in fact lose that election, it leads one to believe that perhaps we do not have in the candidate to my right the temperament Or the ability to not be confused about fact.
	That's deeply troubling and the American people deserve better.
	I'll give you one minute to respond, Mr. President.
	Let me just tell you about world leaders.
	Viktor Orban, one of the most respected men.
	They call him a strong man.
	He's a tough person.
	Smart.
	Prime Minister of Hungary.
	They said, why is the whole world blowing up?
	Three years ago it wasn't.
	Why is it blowing up?
	He said, because you need Trump back as president.
	They were afraid of him.
	China was afraid, and I don't like to use the word afraid, but I'm just quoting him.
	China was afraid of him.
	North Korea was afraid of him.
	Look at what's going on with North Korea, by the way.
	He said Russia was afraid of him.
	I ended the Nord Stream 2 pipeline, and Biden put it back on day one, but he ended the XL pipeline.
	The XL pipeline in our country, he ended that.
	But he let the Russians build a pipeline going all over Europe and heading into Germany.
	The biggest pipeline in the world.
	Look.
	Victor Orban said it.
	He said the most respected, most feared person is Donald Trump.
	We had no problems when Trump was president.
	But when this weak, pathetic man that you saw at a debate just a few months ago, that if he weren't in that debate, he'd be running instead of her.
	She got no votes.
	He got 14 million votes.
	When you did, you talk about a threat to democracy.
	He got 14 million votes and they threw him out of office.
	And you know what?
	I'll give you a little secret.
	He hates her.
	He can't stand her.
	But he got 14 million votes.
	They threw him out.
	She got zero votes.
	And when she ran, she was the first one to leave because she failed.
	And now she's running.
	I don't understand it, but I'm okay with it because I think we're going to do very well.
	Turning now to the Israel-Hamas war and the hostages who are still being held, Americans among them.
	Vice President Harris, in December you said, quote, Israel has a right to defend itself.
	But you added, quote, it matters how, saying international humanitarian law must be respected.
	Israel must do more to protect innocent civilians.
	You said that nine months ago.
	Now an estimated 40,000 Palestinians are dead.
	Nearly 100 hostages remain.
	Just last week, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said there's not a deal in the making.
	President Biden has not been able to break through the stalemate.
	How would you do it?
	Well, let's understand how we got here.
	On October 7, Hamas, a terrorist organization, slaughtered 1,200 Israelis.
	Many of them young people who were simply attending a concert.
	Women were horribly raped.
	And so absolutely, I said then, I say now, Israel has a right to defend itself.
	We would.
	And how it does so matters.
	Because it is also true, far too many innocent Palestinians have been killed.
	Children, mothers.
	What we know is that this war must end.
	It must end immediately and the way it will end is we need a ceasefire deal and we need the hostages out.
	And so we will continue to work around the clock on that.
	Work around the clock also understanding that we must chart a course for a two-state solution.
	And in that solution, there must be security for the Israeli people and Israel, and an equal measure for the Palestinians.
	But the one thing I will assure you always, I will always give Israel the ability to defend itself, in particular as it relates to Iran, and any threat that Iran and its proxies pose to Israel.
	But we must have a two-state solution where we can rebuild Gaza, where the Palestinians have security, self-determination, and the dignity they so rightly deserve.
	President Trump, how would you negotiate with Netanyahu and also Hamas in order to get the hostages out and prevent the killing of more innocent civilians in Gaza?
	If I were president, it would have never started.
	If I were president, Russia would have never, ever—I know Putin very well—it would have never—and there was no threat of it either, by the way, for four years—have gone into Ukraine and killed millions of people when you added up.
	Far worse than people understand what's going on over there.
	But when she mentions about Israel, all of a sudden, she hates Israel.
	She wouldn't even meet With Netanyahu, when he went to Congress to make a very important speech, she refused to be there because she was at a sorority party of hers.
	She wanted to go to the sorority party.
	She hates Israel.
	If she's president, I believe that Israel will not exist within two years from now.
	And I've been pretty good at predictions, and I hope I'm wrong about that one.
	She hates Israel.
	At the same time, in her own way, She hates the Arab population because the whole place is going to get blown up.
	Arabs, Jewish people, Israel.
	Israel will be gone.
	It would have never happened.
	Iran was broke under Donald Trump.
	Now Iran has $300 billion because they took off all the sanctions that I had.
	Iran had no money for Hamas or Hezbollah or any of the 28 different Uh, spheres of terror.
	And they are spheres of terror.
	Horrible terror.
	They had no money.
	It was a big story, and you know it.
	You covered it very well, actually.
	They had no money for terror.
	They were broke.
	Now they're a rich nation, and now what they're doing is they're spreading that money around.
	Look at what's happening with the Houthis and Yemen.
	Look at what's going on in the Middle East.
	This would have never happened.
	I will get that settled and fast, and I'll get the war with Ukraine and Russia ended.
	If I'm president-elect, I'll get it done before even becoming president.
	Vice President Harris, he says you hate Israel.
	That's absolutely not true.
	I have my entire career and life supported Israel and the Israeli people.
	He knows that.
	He's trying to, again, divide and distract from the reality, which is it is very well known that Donald Trump is weak and wrong on national security and foreign policy.
	It is well known that he admires dictators He wants to be a dictator on day one, according to himself.
	It is well known that he said of Putin that he can do whatever the hell he wants and go into Ukraine.
	It is well known that he said when Russia went into Ukraine, it was brilliant.
	It is well known he exchanged love letters with Kim Jong-un.
	And it is absolutely well known that these dictators and autocrats are rooting for you to be president again because they're so clear they can manipulate you with flattery and favors.
	And that is why So many military leaders who you have worked with have told me you are a disgrace.
	That is why we understand that we have to have a president who is not consistently weak and wrong on national security, including the importance of upholding and respecting in highest regard our military.
	Vice President Harris, thank you.
	And she's the one that caused it.
	That's weak on national security by allowing every nation, last month for the year, 168 different countries sending people into our country.
	Their crime rates are way down.
	Putin endorsed her last week, said, I hope she wins.
	And I think he meant it.
	Because what he's gotten away with is absolutely incredible.
	It wouldn't have happened with me.
	The leaders of other countries think that they're weak and incompetent, and they are.
	They're grossly incompetent.
	And I just ask one question.
	Why does Biden go in and kill the Keystone Pipeline and approve the single biggest deal that Russia's ever made, Nord Stream 2, the biggest pipeline anywhere in the world going to Germany and all over Europe?
	Because they're weak and they're ineffective.
	And Biden, by the way, gets paid a lot of money.
	President Trump, thank you.
	We have a lot of issues to get to.
	We'll be right back with much more of this historic ABC News presidential debate from
	the National Constitution Center right here in Philadelphia.
	Back in a moment.
	Okay, it's our first commercial break.
	I've sensed so far that this is one of those debates where if you're watching this and you've got a pro-democratic feed on your X timeline, for example, you'll be seeing pro-Kamala commentary, endorsements of her stance and style, and the opposite is true, of course, if you're in a Republican and Trump-oriented feed.
	It's very difficult, isn't it, to not notice that you're held within a framework.
	The screen of the television perfectly operates as a kind of live, real-time, over-teen window.
	These are the questions that get asked.
	These are the questions that don't get asked.
	And I feel that Gareth, my sort of sense is that we've not seen like the kind of vintage 2016 Trump like hitting out zingers and neither have we seen the kind of risible, ridiculous Kamala.
	But I'm left with the idea that what you get with Kamala Harris is someone that stays within very prescriptive lines and Trump sort of Trust his intuitive sense of what makes people angry.
	What doesn't get bought in or what doesn't seem enough of the forefront to me is that Kamala Harris is in office, has been in office for the last four years, so presenting herself as a change candidate doesn't make sense.
	On that basis, and when it comes to something like her transition and change in policies, it's very difficult to hold that.
	And I think that's why she returns continually to kind of folksy, when I was a kid I did this, I believe in that.
	When you sort of touch upon the sort of terrifying issues of global war and massacre and death, that's where the sort of homilies start to sound a little weak.
	What's your sense?
	Yeah, I mean I think She's obviously used scaremongering against Trump when actually I really think Trump has had the opportunity to go for her in ways that he hasn't.
	As you say when you talk about The global wars that are going on at the moment that, you know, the Biden administration has had a huge hand in.
	And Trump hasn't really gone for that at all.
	There was other two immigration and Kamala's flip-flopped policies.
	Trump didn't really get her on those.
	There's been a lot of talk on X about how the moderators are helping Kamala a lot.
	And it is noticeable that I think Glenn Greenwald pointed out that they're kind of They're attacking Trump more than she is in a way.
	So I think that will be discussed a lot.
	Sagar and Jetty from BreakingPoint wrote this as well.
	He said this was so obvious.
	Immigration is Kamala's worst issue.
	So she baits him on the rallies and then he gets derailed and scrambled.
	And that is what happened as well.
	I think you kind of have to hand it to her that she is handling it pretty well.
	I mean, compare this to the Biden debate.
	I mean, there is no comparison whatsoever.
	Yeah, that's right.
	Because I suppose, like, in that we were watching the visible and evident decline of a person whose atrophy and inability perfectly reveals what people in our spaces believe.
	Oh, these kind of puppets, these figures.
	I suppose in Kamala Harris you have a puppet that is better at rendering the statements and positions of what we would broadly describe as a static globalist set of institutions.
	She doesn't waver visibly on camera.
	Some of us wonder what the emotional essence that's driving both candidates is.
	With Kamala Harris, when she's on the subject of abortion, she's able to appeal to femininity and the sadness and difficulties that are wrapped up in that issue.
	and with Trump you get the essence of the anger and desperation that people feel in
	a country in decline and a set of institutions that are in decline.
	What I wonder is, do you lot in the chat feel that you're getting the Trump that's so beautifully
	represented angry?
	Anger.
	Anger at institutions.
	Anger at corruption.
	At this point, it's difficult to sort of say which of these, like, who is offering you policy and change?
	Like, when it comes to sort of a clear answer on how are you going to resolve Israel-Palestine?
	How are you going to resolve Russia-Ukraine?
	Trump, like, offers you his kind of, like, his, um...
	strength almost in essence rather than policy in a kind of a specific way.
	The debate's starting again now so we'll rejoin him but certainly it's clear that
	the way that the moderators pick up on particular points is designed to
	favour Kamala.
	...defend Ukraine from Russia from Vladimir Putin to defend their sovereignty their
	democracy that it's in America's best interest to do so arguing that if Putin
	wins he may be emboldened to move even further into other countries.
	You have said you would solve this war in 24 hours.
	You said so just before the break tonight.
	How exactly would you do that?
	And I want to ask you a very simple question tonight.
	Do you want Ukraine to win this war?
	I want the war to stop.
	I want to save lives that are being uselessly people being killed by the millions.
	It's the millions.
	It's so much worse than the numbers that you're getting, which are fake numbers.
	Look, We're in for 250 billion or more because they don't ask Europe, which is a much bigger beneficiary to getting this thing done than we are.
	They're in for 150 billion dollars less because Biden and you don't have the courage to ask Europe like I did with NATO.
	They paid billions and billions, hundreds of billions of dollars when I said either you pay up or we're not going to protect you anymore.
	So that's maybe one of the reasons that are Like me as much as they like weak people.
	But you take a look at what's happening.
	We're in for $250 to $275 billion.
	They're into $100 to $150.
	They should be forced to equalize.
	With that being said, I want to get the war settled.
	I know Zelensky very well and I know Putin very well.
	I have a good relationship and they respect.
	Your president, okay?
	They respect me.
	They don't respect Biden.
	How would you respect him?
	Why?
	For what reason?
	He hasn't even made a phone call in two years to Putin.
	Hasn't spoken to anybody.
	They don't even try to get it.
	That is a war that's dying to be settled.
	I will get it settled before I even become president.
	If I win, when I'm president-elect, and what I'll do is I'll speak to one, I'll speak to the other, I'll get them together.
	That war would have never happened.
	And in fact, when I saw Putin after I left, Unfortunately left because our country has gone to hell.
	But after I left, when I saw him building up soldiers, he did it after I left.
	I said, oh, he must be negotiating.
	It must be a good strong point of negotiation.
	Well, it wasn't because Biden had no idea how to talk to him.
	He had no idea how to stop it.
	And now you have millions of people dead and it's only getting worse and it could lead to World War Three.
	Don't kid yourself, David.
	We're playing with World War III and we have a president that we don't even know if he's... Where is our president?
	We don't even know if he's a president.
	And just to clarify here... They threw him out of a campaign like a dog.
	We don't even know.
	Is he a president?
	We have a president that doesn't know he's alive.
	Your time is up.
	He doesn't know he's alive.
	I believe it's in the U.S.
	best interest for Ukraine.
	He doesn't know that.
	I want to take this to Vice President Harris.
	I want to get your thoughts on support for Ukraine in this moment, but also as commander in chief, if elected, how would you deal with Vladimir Putin?
	And would it be any different from what we're seeing from President Biden?
	Well, first of all, it's important to remind the former president you're not running against Joe Biden, you're running against me.
	I believe the reason that Donald Trump says that this war would be over within 24 hours is because he would just give it up.
	And that's not who we are as Americans.
	Let's understand what happened here.
	I actually met with Zelensky a few days before Russia invaded, tried through force to change
	territorial boundaries, to define one of the most important international rules and norms,
	which is the importance of sovereignty and territorial integrity.
	And I met with President Zelensky.
	I shared with him American intelligence about how he could defend himself.
	Days later, I went to NATO's eastern flank, to Poland and Romania.
	And through the work that I and others did, we brought 50 countries together to support
	Ukraine in its righteous defense.
	And because of our support, because of the air defense, the ammunition, the artillery, the Javelins, the Abrams tanks that we have provided, Ukraine stands as an independent and free country.
	If Donald Trump were president, Putin would be sitting in Kiev right now.
	And understand what that would mean, because Putin's agenda is not just about Ukraine.
	Understand why the European allies and our NATO allies are so thankful that you are no longer president, and that we understand the importance of the greatest military alliance the world has ever known, which is NATO.
	And what we have done to preserve the ability of Zelensky and the Ukrainians to fight for their independence.
	Otherwise, Putin would be sitting in Kiev with his eyes on the rest of Europe, starting with Poland.
	And why don't you tell the 800,000 Polish-Americans right here in Pennsylvania how quickly you would give up for the sake of favor and what you think is a friendship with what is known to be a dictator who would eat you for lunch.
	Vice President Harris, thank you.
	We've heard from both of you on Ukraine tonight.
	Afghanistan came up in the last hour.
	I wanted her to respond to something you said earlier.
	Please, I'll give you a minute here.
	Putin would be sitting in Moscow, and he wouldn't have lost 300,000 men and women, but he would have been sitting in Moscow.
	Quiet, please.
	He would have been sitting in Moscow, much happier than he is right now.
	But eventually, you know, he's got a thing that other people don't have.
	He's got nuclear weapons.
	They don't ever talk about that.
	He's got nuclear weapons.
	Nobody ever thinks about that.
	And eventually, maybe he'll use them, and maybe he hasn't been that threatening.
	But he does have that.
	Something we don't even like to talk about.
	Nobody likes to talk about it.
	But just so you understand, they sent her to negotiate peace before this war started.
	Three days later, he went in and he started the war.
	Because everything they said was weak and stupid.
	They said the wrong things.
	That war should have never started.
	She was the emissary.
	They sent her in to negotiate with Zelensky and Putin.
	And she did.
	And the war started three days later.
	And that's the kind of talent we have with her.
	She's worse than Biden, in my opinion.
	I think he's the worst president in the history of our country.
	She goes down as the worst vice president in the history of our country.
	But let me tell you something.
	She is a horrible negotiator.
	They sent her in to negotiate.
	As soon as they left, Putin did the invasion.
	President Trump, thank you.
	You did bring up something.
	You said she went to negotiate with Vladimir Putin.
	Vice President Harris, have you ever met Vladimir Putin?
	Can you clarify tonight?
	Yet again, I said at the beginning of this debate, you're going to hear a bunch of lies coming from this fellow.
	And that is another one.
	When I went to meet with President Zelensky, I've now met with him over five times.
	The reality is it has been about standing as America always should.
	As a leader upholding international rules and norms.
	As a leader who shows strength understanding that the alliances we have around the world are dependent on our ability to look out for our friends and not favor our enemies because you adore strongmen instead of caring about democracy.
	And that is very much what is at stake here.
	The President of the United States is Commander-in-Chief and the American people have a right to rely on a president who understands the significance of America's role and responsibility in terms of ensuring that there is stability and ensuring we stand up for our principles and not sell them for the benefit of personal flattery.
	We've talked about Ukraine and Vladimir Putin.
	I do want to talk about Afghanistan.
	It came up in the first hour of this debate.
	I want to move on to Afghanistan.
	Trump did the most amazing thing I've ever seen.
	He got these countries, the 28 countries at the time, to pay up.
	He said, I've never seen.
	He's the head of NATO.
	He said, I've never seen.
	For years, we were paying almost all of NATO.
	We were being ripped off by European nations, both on trade and on NATO.
	I got them to pay up by saying, one of the statements you made before, if you don't pay, we're not going to protect you, otherwise we would have never gotten it.
	He said it was one of the most incredible jobs that he's ever seen done.
	Thank you.
	I want to turn to Afghanistan.
	It came up in the first hour of the debate, and we witnessed a poignant moment today on Capitol Hill, honoring the soldiers who died in the chaotic withdrawal from Afghanistan.
	I do want to ask the Vice President, Do you believe you bear any responsibility in the way that withdrawal played out?
	Well, I will tell you, I agreed with President Biden's decision to pull out of Afghanistan.
	Four presidents said they would, and Joe Biden did.
	And as a result, America's taxpayers are not paying the $300 million a day we were paying for that endless war.
	And as of today, there is not one member of the United States military who is in active duty in a combat zone in any war zone around the world the first time this century.
	But let's understand how we got to where we are.
	Donald Trump, when he was president, negotiated one of the weakest deals you can imagine.
	He calls himself a dealmaker.
	Even his national security advisor said it was a weak, terrible deal.
	And here's how it went down.
	He bypassed the Afghan government.
	He negotiated directly with a terrorist organization called the Taliban.
	The negotiation involved the Taliban getting 5,000 terrorists, Taliban terrorists, released.
	And get this, no get this, and the president at the time invited the Taliban to Camp David, a place of storied significance for us as Americans, a place where we honor the importance of American diplomacy, where we invite and receive respected world leaders.
	And this Former President, as President, invited them.
	To Camp David because he does not again appreciate the role and responsibility of the President of the United States to be Commander-in-Chief with a level of respect.
	And this gets back to the point of how he has consistently disparaged and demeaned members of our military, fallen soldiers, and the work that we must do to uphold the strength and the respect of the United States of America around the world.
	Vice President Harris, thank you.
	President Trump, your response to her saying that you began the negotiations with the Taliban?
	So, if you take a look at that period of time, the Taliban was killing our soldiers, a lot of them, with snipers.
	And I got involved with the Taliban because the Taliban was doing the killing.
	That's the fighting force within Afghanistan.
	They don't bother doing that because, you know, they deal with the wrong people all the time.
	But I got involved and Abdul is the head of the Taliban.
	He is still the head of the Taliban.
	And I told Abdul, don't do it anymore.
	You do it anymore.
	You're going to have problems.
	We're in Shangela's territory now, aren't we?
	18 months.
	We had nobody killed.
	We did have an agreement negotiated by Mike Pompeo.
	It was a very good agreement.
	The reason it was good, it was we were getting out.
	We would have been out faster than that, but we wouldn't have lost the soldiers.
	We wouldn't have left many Americans behind and we wouldn't have left, we wouldn't have left 85 billion dollars worth of brand new beautiful military equipment behind.
	And just to finish, They blew it.
	The agreement said you have to do this, this, this, this, this.
	And they didn't do it.
	They didn't do it.
	The agreement was terminated by us because they didn't do what they were supposed to do.
	And these people did the worst withdrawal and, in my opinion, the most embarrassing moment in the history of our country.
	And by the way, that's why Russia attacked Ukraine, because they saw how incompetent she Enter Borser.
	President Trump, thank you.
	I want to move on now to race and politics in this country.
	Mr. President, you recently said of Vice President Harris, quote, I didn't know she was black until a number of years ago, when she happened to turn black, and now she wants to be known as black.
	I want to ask a bigger picture question here tonight.
	Why do you believe it's appropriate to weigh in on the racial identity of your opponent?
	I don't, and I don't care.
	I don't care what she is.
	I don't care.
	You make a big deal out of something, I couldn't care less.
	Whatever she wants to be is okay with me.
	But those were your words.
	So I don't know.
	I don't know.
	I mean, all I can say is I read where she was not black that she put out.
	And I'll say that.
	And then I read that she was black.
	And that's OK.
	Either one was OK with me.
	That's up to her.
	That's up to her.
	Vice President Harris, your thoughts on this?
	I think it's I mean, honestly, I think it's a tragedy that we have someone who wants to be president who has consistently, over the course of his career, attempted to use race to divide the American people.
	You know, I do believe that the vast majority of us know that we have so much more in common than what separates us, and we don't want this kind of approach that is just constantly trying to divide us, and especially by race.
	And let's remember how Donald Trump started.
	He was a He owned land, he owned buildings, and he was investigated because he refused to rent property to black families.
	Let's remember, this is the same individual who took out a full page ad in the New York Times calling for the execution of five young black and Latino boys who were innocent, the Central Park Five.
	Took out a full page ad calling for their execution.
	This is the same individual who spread birther lies about the first black president of the United States.
	And I think the American people want better than that.
	Want better than this.
	Want someone who understands, as I do, I travel our country.
	We see in each other a friend.
	We see in each other a neighbor.
	We don't want a leader who is constantly trying to have Americans point their fingers at each other.
	I meet with people all the time who tell me, can we please just have discourse about how we're going to invest in the aspirations and the ambitions and the dreams of the American people?
	Knowing that regardless of people's color or the language their grandmother speaks, we all have the same dreams and aspirations and want a president who invests in those, not in hate and division.
	This is the most divisive presidency in the history of our country.
	There's never been anything like it.
	They're destroying our country and they come up with things like What she just said, going back many, many years, when a lot of people, including Mayor Bloomberg, agreed with me on the Central Park fight, they admitted, they said, they pled guilty.
	And I said, well, if they pled guilty, they badly hurt a person, killed a person, ultimately.
	And if they pled guilty, then they pled—we're not guilty.
	But this is a person that has to stretch back years, 40, 50 years ago, because there's nothing now.
	I built one of the greatest economies in the history of the world, and I'm going to build it again.
	It's going to be bigger, better and stronger.
	But they're destroying our economy.
	They have no idea what a good economy is.
	Their oil policies.
	Every single policy.
	And remember this.
	She is Biden.
	You know, she's trying to get away from Biden.
	I don't know the gentleman, she says.
	She is Biden.
	The worst inflation we've ever had.
	A horrible economy because inflation has made it so bad that she can't get away with that.
	I want to respond to that, though.
	I want to just respond briefly.
	Clearly I am not Joe Biden and I am certainly not Donald Trump.
	And what I do offer is a new generation of leadership for our country.
	One who believes in what is possible.
	One who brings a sense of optimism about what we can do instead of always disparaging the American people.
	I believe in what we can do to to strengthen our small businesses, which is why I have a
	plan.
	Let's talk about our plans and let's compare the plans.
	I have a plan to give startup businesses $50,000 tax deduction
	to pursue their ambitions, their innovation, their ideas, their hard work.
	I have a plan, $6,000 for young families for the first year of your child's life
	to help you in that most critical stage of your child's development.
	I have a plan that is about allowing people to be able to pursue what has been fleeting
	in terms of the American dream by offering a help with down payment of $25,000 down payment
	assistance for first time home buyers.
	That's the kind of conversation, I believe, David, that people really want tonight as opposed to a conversation that is constantly about belittling and name-calling.
	Let's turn the page and move forward.
	President Trump, we have to move on.
	She has a plan to defund the police.
	She has a plan to confiscate everybody's gun.
	President Trump will do have to move on to other issues.
	She has a plan to not allow fracking in Pennsylvania or anywhere else.
	That's what her plan is until just recently.
	I just need to respond to this.
	The President has said something twice that I need to respond to.
	I just need to respond one time to what he has said multiple times.
	President Trump, this is now your third time running for President.
	You have long vowed to repeal and replace the Affordable Care Act, also known as Obamacare.
	You have failed to accomplish that.
	You now say you're going to keep Obamacare, quote, unless we can do something much better.
	Last month you said, quote, we're working on it.
	So tonight, nine years after you first started running, do you have a plan and can you tell us what it is?
	Obamacare was lousy healthcare.
	Always was.
	It's not very good today.
	And what I said, that if we come up with something, and we are working on things, we're going to do it and we're going to replace it.
	But, remember this, I inherited Obamacare because Democrats wouldn't change it.
	They wouldn't vote for it.
	They were unanimous.
	They wouldn't vote to change it.
	If they would have done that, we would have had a much better plan than Obamacare.
	But the Democrats came up, they wouldn't vote for it.
	I had a choice to make when I was president.
	Do I save it and make it as good as it can be?
	Never going to be great.
	Or do I let it rot?
	And I felt I had an obligation, even though politically it would have been good to just let it rot and let it go away.
	I decided, and I told my people, the top people, and they're very good people.
	I have a lot of good people in this, that administration.
	We read about the bad ones.
	We had some real bad ones too, and so do they.
	They have really bad ones.
	The difference is they don't get rid of them.
	But let me just explain.
	I had a choice to make.
	Do I save it and make it as good as it can be, or do I let it rot?
	And I saved it.
	I did the right thing.
	But it's still never going to be great, and it's too expensive for people.
	And what we will do is we're looking at different plans.
	If we can come up with a plan that's going to cost our people, our population, less money and be better healthcare than Obamacare, then I would absolutely do it.
	But until then, I'd run it as good as it can be run.
	So, just so you guys know, you still do not have a plan.
	I have concepts of a plan.
	I'm not president right now.
	But if...
	We come up with something.
	I would only change it if we come up with something that's better and less expensive.
	And there are concepts and options we have to do that.
	And you'll be hearing about it in the not-too-distant future.
	Vice President Harris, in 2017, you supported Bernie Sanders' proposal to do away with private insurance and create a government-run healthcare system.
	Two years later, you proposed a plan that included a private insurance option.
	What is your plan today?
	Well, first of all, I absolutely support, and over the last four years as vice president, private health care options.
	But what we need to do is maintain and grow the Affordable Care Act.
	But I'll get to that, Lindsay.
	I just need to respond to a previous point that the former president has made.
	I've made very clear my position on fracking.
	And then this business about taking everyone's guns away.
	Tim Walz and I are both gun owners.
	We're not taking anybody's guns away.
	So stop with the continuous lying about this stuff.
	As it relates to the Affordable Care Act, understand, just look at the history to know where people stand.
	When Donald Trump was president, 60 times he tried to get rid of the Affordable Care Act.
	60 times.
	I was a senator at the time.
	I will never forget the early morning hours when it was up for a vote in the United States Senate.
	And the late, great John McCain, who you have disparaged.
	As being, you don't like him, you said, at the time because he got caught.
	He was an American hero.
	The late, great John McCain, I will never forget that night, walked onto the Senate floor and said, no you don't.
	No you don't.
	No you don't get rid of the Affordable Care Act.
	You have no plan.
	And what the Affordable Care Act has done is eliminate the ability of insurance companies to deny people with pre-existing conditions.
	I don't have to tell the people watching tonight, you remember what that was like?
	Remember when an insurance company could deny if a child had asthma, if someone was a breast cancer survivor, if a grandparent had diabetes?
	And thankfully, as I've been vice president and we over the last four years have strengthened the Affordable Care Act, we have allowed for the first time Medicare to negotiate drug prices on behalf of you, the American people.
	Donald Trump said he was going to allow Medicare to negotiate prices.
	He never did.
	We did.
	And now we have capped the cost of insulin at $35 a month.
	Since I've been vice president, we have capped the cost of prescription medication for seniors at $2,000 a year.
	And when I am president, we will do that for all people, understanding that the value I bring to this Is that access to health care should be a right and not just a privilege of those who can afford it.
	And the plan has to be to strengthen the Affordable Care Act, not get rid of it.
	Vice President Harris, thank you.
	That's just prologue in terms of where Donald Trump stands on that.
	I want to move to an issue that's important for a lot of people.
	You made a mistake.
	Number one, John McCain fought Obamacare for 10 years.
	But it wasn't only him.
	It was all of the Democrats that kept it going.
	And you know what?
	We can do much better than Obamacare.
	Much less money.
	But she won't improve private insurance for people.
	Private medical insurance.
	That's another thing she doesn't want to do.
	People are paying privately for insurance that have worked hard and made money and they want to have private.
	She wants everybody to be on government insurance where you wait Six months for an operation that you need to be- President Trump, thank you.
	We have another issue that we'd like to get to that's important for a number of Americans, in particular younger voters, and that's climate change.
	President Trump, with regard to the environment, you say that we have to have clean air and clean water.
	Vice President Harris, you call climate change an existential threat.
	The question to you both tonight is what would you do to fight climate change?
	And Vice President Harris, we'll start with you.
	One minute for you each.
	Well, the former president has said that climate change is a hoax.
	And what we know is that it is very real.
	You ask anyone who lives in a state who has experienced these extreme weather occurrences, who now is either being denied home insurance or is being jacked up.
	You ask anybody who has been the victim of what that means in terms of losing their home, having nowhere to go.
	We know that we can actually deal with this issue.
	The young people of America care deeply about this issue.
	And I am proud that as Vice President over the last four years, we have invested a trillion dollars in a clean energy economy while we have also Increase domestic gas production to historic levels.
	We have created over 800,000 new manufacturing jobs while I have been vice president.
	We have invested in clean energy to the point that we are opening up factories around the world.
	Donald Trump said he was going to create manufacturing jobs.
	He lost manufacturing jobs.
	And I'm also proud to have the endorsement of the United Auto Workers and Sean Fain, who also know that part of building a clean energy economy includes investing in American-made products, American automobiles, it includes Growing what we can do around American manufacturing and opening up auto plants, not closing them like happened under Donald Trump.
	Vice President Harris, thank you.
	It didn't happen under Donald Trump.
	Let me just tell you, they lost 10,000 manufacturing jobs this last month.
	It's going, they're all leaving.
	They're building big auto plants in Mexico, in many cases owned by China.
	They're building these massive plants and they think they're going to sell their cars into the United States because of these people.
	What they have given to China is unbelievable, but we're not going to let that.
	We'll put tariffs on those cars so they can't come into our country because they will kill the United Auto Workers and any auto worker, whether it's in Detroit or South Carolina or any other place.
	What they've done to business and manufacturing in this country Is horrible.
	We have nothing because they refuse.
	You know, Biden doesn't go after people because supposedly China paid him millions of dollars.
	He's afraid to do it between him and his son.
	They get all this money from Ukraine.
	They get all this money from all of these different countries.
	And then you wonder why is he so loyal to this one, that one, Ukraine, China?
	Why is he?
	Why did he get three and a half million dollars from the mayor of Moscow's wife?
	Why did he get?
	Why did she pay him?
	Three and a half million dollars.
	This is a crooked administration and they're selling our country down the tubes.
	President Trump, thank you.
	Thank you.
	We'll be right back with closing statements from both of our candidates.
	An historic night, this ABC News presidential debate from Philadelphia.
	Back in a moment.
	It's historic what we're doing here.
	I'm going to glance even further to the side.
	One of the things I feel when you watch it is when you talk about healthcare, you stay in the bureaucratic quagmire of we put Obamacare forward, it was struggling, Congress, it was a great bill, do you have a better idea?
	Do I have a concept of a plan?
	And actually, you don't talk about Big Food's stranglehold on policymaking, you don't talk about big farmers profiting from sickness and ill health across America.
	And I feel like the general optimism that I felt when Bobby Kennedy endorsed Trump meant that what you have an opportunity for is to bring to the forefront the Big issues of look, it's whether or not Obamacare succeeds or doesn't succeed You've got massive health crisis in America and across the world and that's brought about by putting the interests of corporations ahead of the interests of people and it sort of what seems absurd is you kind of think I want them to move away from talking about from just demonstrating emotion whether it's the emotion that Trump has typified since he entered the political scene or
	Or the emotions that Kamala is demonstrating, I think, sort of rather well when it comes to... We'll deal with that little noise.
	We'll deal with that.
	That's the noise that we have from time to time.
	When you get into the policy, it seems sort of like ridiculous minutia.
	So like it seems sometimes very general and emotional and sometimes absurdly specific without sort of landing on the point of what's going to happen with this Ukraine-Russia war?
	What's going to happen in the Middle East?
	What are we going to do about healthcare?
	It's an odd blend of generalities and then such specificity that it negates you having a clear vision of what might happen under their terms.
	So you're sort of, in a way, left with your biases.
	That's what you're left with, is just a general sense of, well, You know I like Donald Trump because he represents anti-establishment interest or he represents anger or I like Kamala Harris because even though she is a person that's still in government in particular we understand with some control over the border or some responsibility at least for the border she's being pushed this change.
	I think they are managing that job well of saying she's sort of like somehow a progression of Biden.
	She's able to say well I'm not Joe Biden you forget I'm not Joe Biden.
	And I think that what we'll come away from this saying, I wonder if you agree Gavin, I wonder what you guys think in the chat, is that the context of this debate is defining this debate.
	The fact that sort of every incremental question, enquiry or follow-up is gently biasing you towards Kamala Harris, that it's broadly favourable.
	The conditions are so sort of generally beneficial to her that it's, I would say, sort of somewhat unfair Yeah, I think so.
	The main talking points are the moderators.
	I think that's going to be the headline out of this, is the fact-checking that they're doing on behalf of Kamala Harris towards Trump, whereas not the reversal.
	That is going to still, well, certainly within our space, the headlines.
	I mean, I think you're absolutely right.
	I don't see this debate in changing anyone's minds whatsoever.
	I think this is In a way you see why with the last debate the headlines were all about Biden's errors you know with this one I think some of the talking points will be probably that moment where Trump said I'm speaking now which was obviously a reference to Kamala with Mike Pence from 2020 so yeah I mean it's a it's a TV show I mean that's what I guess that's what we come back to is
	This is ultimately a spectacle.
	No one's really learning anything from it.
	It's either too general or too biographical when it's massive stories that we should be focusing on like war, which I actually think Trump easily won that round if you want to look at it as winning rounds.
	I mean, you want to talk about why Kamala Harris has got the Cheney vote.
	I mean, you couldn't have seen something more Pro-NATO, pro-war, you know, pro-funding of Ukraine.
	But, you know, and no-one's, again, to your point, no-one's fact-checking that, are they?
	No-one's going... No, no-one's saying... Yeah, exactly, was that the right thing to do?
	What were the conditions?
	What led us into that?
	What was his funding expedient?
	Well, where Kamala Harris is talking about invading Poland.
	I mean, there's literally no evidence that Putin wants to invade Poland.
	Yeah, you can't just say... But that doesn't get fact-checked, does it?
	Well, did you, have you ever met Putin?
	So I think you've heard tonight two very different visions for our country.
	that Russia want to invade Poland. I believe they're back for their closing
	statement. Stay with us for this and then afterwards we'll learn to our own little
	Pricey. So I think you've heard tonight two very different visions for our
	country. One that is focused on the future and the other that is focused on
	the past and an attempt to take us backward. But we're not going back.
	And I do believe that the American people know we all have so much more in common than what separates us.
	And we can chart a new way forward.
	And a vision of that includes having a plan.
	Understanding the aspirations, the dreams, the hopes, the ambition of the American people, which is why I intend to create An opportunity economy, investing in small businesses, in new families, in what we can do around protecting seniors, what we can do that is about giving hardworking folks a break and bringing down the cost of living.
	I believe in what we can do together.
	That is about sustaining America's standing in the world and ensuring that we have the respect that we so rightly deserve, including respecting our military and ensuring we have the most lethal fighting force in the world.
	I will be a president that will protect our fundamental rights and freedoms, including the right of a woman to make decisions about her own body and not have her government tell her what to do.
	I'll tell you, I started my career as a prosecutor.
	I was a DA, I was an Attorney General, a United States Senator, and now Vice President.
	I've only had one client, the people.
	And I'll tell you, as a prosecutor, I never asked a victim or a witness, are you a Republican or a Democrat?
	The only thing I ever asked them, are you okay?
	And that's the kind of president we need right now.
	Someone who cares about you.
	Are you okay?
	I'm not okay.
	...to be a president for all Americans and focus on what we can do over the next 10 and 20 years to build back up our country by investing right now in you, the American people.
	Vice President Harris, thank you.
	President Trump?
	So she just started by saying she's going to do this, she's going to do that, she's going to do all these wonderful things.
	Why hasn't she done it?
	She's been there for three and a half years.
	They've had three and a half years to fix the border.
	They've had three and a half years to Create jobs and all the things we talked about.
	Why hasn't she done it?
	She should leave right now, go down to that beautiful White House, go to the Capitol, get everyone together and do the things you want to do.
	But you haven't done it and you won't do it because you believe in things that the American people don't believe in.
	You believe in Things like, we're not going to frack, we're not going to take fossil fuel, we're not going to do—things that are going to make this country strong, whether you like it or not.
	Germany tried that, and within one year, they were back to building normal energy plants.
	We're not ready for it.
	We can't sacrifice our country for the sake of bad vision.
	But I just ask one simple question.
	Why didn't she do it?
	We're a failing nation.
	We're a nation that's in serious decline.
	We're being laughed at all over the world.
	All over the world they laugh.
	I know the leaders very well.
	They're coming to see me.
	They call me.
	We're laughed at all over the world.
	They don't understand what happened to us as a nation.
	We're not a leader.
	We don't have any idea what's going on.
	We have wars going on in the Middle East.
	We have wars going on with Russia and Ukraine.
	We're going to end up in a third world war, and it'll be a war like no other because of nuclear weapons, the power of weaponry.
	I rebuilt our entire military.
	She gave a lot of it away to the Taliban.
	She gave it to Afghanistan.
	What these people have done to our country, and maybe toughest of all, is allowing millions of people to come into our country.
	Many of them are criminals, and they're destroying our country.
	The worst president, the worst vice president in the history of our country.
	President Trump, thank you.
	And that is our ABC News presidential debate from here in Philadelphia at the National Constitution Center.
	I'm Lindsay Davis.
	And I'm David Muir.
	Thank you for watching here in the U.S.
	and all over the world and from all of us here at ABC News.
	I remember in earlier iterations of presidential debates, the Clinton-Trump one, the Clinton-Biden one, the constitution that forms the backdrop was more vivid and clear.
	You could make out the language and the words and you could see in those documents the original vision for the United States of America.
	Now they've blurred that vision and it might be a perfect metaphor for what's happening.
	Because what is actually happening in a broader global sense is some quite terrifying issues.
	The escalating war, the general tendency towards mass citizen management and control, and the use of crisis to legitimise further authority.
	And other than Trump's recognisable rhetoric, those issues weren't brought to the forefront.
	Kamala Harris, as you said Gareth, is good at presenting generalities and biographical facts and sort of oddly being able to present herself as a progression or an advance or even a change when, as Trump pointed out, she's in the White House right now.
	What I feel that this spectacle does overall, a spectacle facilitated somewhat by moderators whose favour was plain and visible, an ongoing democratic centralised government, is that there is no sort of There's an appetite to bring to the absolute forefront the nature of the crisis, both domestic and global, that many people feel like they're dealing with.
	You sort of glimpse occasionally the outline of, like, you know, economic crisis, inflation, global war, the horror of the Middle East, but you don't feel that you ever drop down into that space where people are sort of seriously going, listen, we're going to actually deal with this and this is how we're going to deal with it.
	It's so performative actually.
	Other than the fact that we're kind of used to it, that it's become normal to us, when you check it, it's kind of disturbing and uncanny.
	Yeah, I agree.
	I think if anything what this shows, other than the headline of the moderators as we
	have spoken about, is the parameters that these kind of things exist within.
	And ultimately, I guess, from a kind of macro position, this does reinforce the idea that
	one of these two parties should be governing the United States of America and that anything
	that's outside of the remit of the parameters discussed in this debate are not worth talking
	about.
	I mean, all the things that you highlighted before, that, for example, an RFK has been
	highlighting about and why so many people were so excited about him.
	being a presidential candidate.
	Most of those things are just not discussed because they're not deemed relevant or they're not deemed the talking points that ABC or these moderators or whoever it is... Do you think as well, Gareth, that those points are somehow deliberately excluded?
	Because, for example, can Trump talk like Bobby Kennedy with regard to, say, the power of
	Big Pharma.
	Notice when they talked about Covid briefly, he sort of was like, you know, I handled that fantastic.
	You know, you'd imagine that a lot of Trump's sort of natural base would want something along the lines of
	"Under the circumstances that were presented, I did the best that I could."
	Did we overly empower the pharmaceutical companies?
	Did we facilitate their profit?
	Did these lead to the conditions of censorship and big tech overreach and the relationship between big tech and government?
	I wish we could have done something different.
	It's sort of Like, I suppose there's not enough sense of that easy anti-establishment rhetoric, even if it is only rhetoric, because it's almost harder, isn't it, don't you find, to not judge the debate on its own terms, the terms it presents to you, which are, it's a spectacle and you want to see people say funny stuff, you want to see Trump land zingers, and
	Really, actually, we should be rejecting its terms.
	We should be saying, actually, we're in a real moment of potential crisis.
	Whoever's side you're on, if you're sort of a democratic person and democratic media inclined, your concerns are likely climate change and social justice issues.
	If you're a Trump MAGA person and you're inclined towards that type of media, you're likely
	concerned by the incredible and insidious power of the state and advancing globalism.
	But what can't be brought to the forefront are the mechanics and architecture of those
	problems because in a sense both sides are gridlocked.
	Remember we said even with RFK, as his campaign advanced and became more significant and successful
	as he went from a very marginal figure to a significant and influential figure, we know
	noted that, oh look, he's restricted somewhat.
	And now that he's endorsed Trump, many people, when I was doing that thing with Tucker, were saying, oh Bobby Kennedy feels like he's freed up again.
	It's like the institutions themselves whether it's the institutions of media or the institutions of government by their nature present restrictions that present restrictions that prevent change and so it's difficult like that debate you could watch it like it's a football match and it's difficult actually to watch it beyond that because when they do get into policy you think what 25 grand Yeah.
	for business that's what we're talking about aren't we like in a really
	terrifying position and so sort of Trump's stuff about Putin's got nuclear
	weapons lands or or if you're more inclined Kamala's stuff about look we're
	not gonna go backwards on women's rights and and like but even there like you
	said your point about fact-checking earlier mate it's like that no one said
	well that doesn't if you are totally pro body autonomy for the individual how
	does that tally with your stance on vaccine mandate vaccine Yeah, exactly.
	Yeah.
	mandated for government workers and we're not mandated, you were shamed if you do not
	comply. Would that be your position today? If there was another pandemic, would you mandate
	government workers? Would you mandate the military that you claim to respect so much?
	Yeah, and I'm surprised Trump didn't bring that up. But then again, as you say, the point
	that he made around his only point around the pandemic was what a great job he did.
	And that's kind of the point with all this, isn't it? It almost becomes the debate around
	of what's omitted from the debate.
	Ultimately, that is what we're focused on.
	I mean, hence why this debate is shown on ABC, you know, and Trump's criticized ABC a lot.
	But imagine if you had a debate like this that was on Rumble, for example, you know, what would that look like?
	Moderators like Bongino, Glenn Greenwald, you could have a, you know, you could have
	a, it doesn't have to be partisan, you know, it can be a fair debate but they obviously
	would never go for something like that.
	And I guess maybe the bigger takeaway is that, how relevant are these debates anyway?
	I mean, you know, we all know, we all kind of come away from this and being like, well, this is more about what wasn't said rather than what was said.
	And so therefore, probably a lot of the audience on Rumble are thinking, well, actually, a lot of these things I kind of care a bit about, but maybe 20% I care about, but there's so much that I do care about that wasn't covered.
	I suppose the bad debates must be relevant because the debates happen.
	And that means, I suppose, they must overall, and in a general way, service the status quo.
	They must service continuity.
	Because if there were, imagine in a real democracy for a moment, you would say, Let's have a debate where these candidates are exposed to genuine interrogation, genuine opposition, and what the Kamala campaign has been notably defined by up till now is her unwillingness to deal with open interviews.
	She's been very controlled when it comes to PR, but Biden was like that in campaigning in 2020.
	He was out of the way.
	They sort of realized then that Trump generates such polarizing feelings that you're probably tactically better off to let him do his thing, and the people that he don't reach and that don't like him will be greater galvanized by anything they can offer.
	Clearly, Kamala Harris is an upgrade on Biden.
	No question about it.
	JD Vance is appearing on something now.
	Should we check that for a moment so we'll see what J.D. is saying?
	...crystal clear and not on the fact that people can't afford groceries and housing
	because of Kamala Harris's policies.
	This election is actually quite simple and Kamala Harris and apparently the media would
	like to distract Americans on issues, by the way, that Donald Trump's been crystal clear
	about, but they're not talking nearly enough.
	This debate didn't talk nearly enough about the fact that Americans are struggling because
	they can't afford groceries, they can't afford housing, and a lot of their kids are dying
	of fentanyl overdoses because Kamala Harris has let the Mexican drug cartels take over
	the southern border.
	This is a disgrace to what's going on in our country, John, and we could do so much better
	if we just had better leadership.
	We've got the best workers, the most beautiful country, the best natural resources, but Kamala
	Harris's leadership is squandering the great benefits of this country.
	It's why we've got to get back to Donald Trump's leadership.
	Senator, by the way, I asked because he hadn't been crystal clear and he said something different than what you said.
	That's why I was seeking clarification.
	Hey guys, I tell you what, what we'll do is we'll take a moment.
	We're gonna leave it here.
	Remember, our show will be on as usual.
	We'll see you then, guys.
	I hope you've enjoyed joining us for this.
	five BST, it's 12 ET. 12 ET will be on the normal time with our post-debate special.
	We'll see you then, guys. I hope you've enjoyed this, joining us for this. Joey Yodo, JimmyKee55,
	GorillaWagon. Thanks for your lovely comments about Gareth being back and this beautiful
	dog and JC.
	Beautiful dogs, beautiful dogs.
	Thanks very much for joining us.
	I think you can see what our conclusions are, that in a sense the framing and what is excluded is how you can determine what is important And yeah, probably we'd come away from this thinking it was a three against one debate.
	Thanks for joining us.
	It's very late here and we've still got a few things to fix up.
	So we'll see you tomorrow at the usual time.
	Thank you for joining us for this and stay free guys.
	Nighty night.

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