William Pulte, Trump’s FHFA director since March 2025, revives Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac—$7.8T giants—by firing fraud-linked CEOs and slashing $97M in waste, while accusing the "deep state" of enabling past failures; he targets New York AG Letitia James for mortgage fraud and rejects public listing fears, blaming Biden’s policies for soaring rates and economic misreporting. Pulte bans DEI/climate lending mandates, cuts housing material costs, and warns of four years of Democratic damage, eyeing privatization under Trump’s leadership to spark a housing affordability boom. [Automatically generated summary]
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The Stone Zone on the Red Apple Podcast Network.
Welcome back in the Stone Zone.
We're joined now by William Pulte.
Bill Pulte is a dynamic American businessman and philanthropist who was appointed as director of the Federal Housing Finance Agency by President Donald Trump and confirmed by the U.S. Senate in March of 2025.
He is a successful entrepreneur and businessman.
He is the grandson of William J. Pulte, the founder of Pulte Group, one of the nation's largest and best-known home builders.
He is a former director of Pulte Homes and the chief executive officer of Pulte Capital Partners before joining the government.
And now, I believe Bill Pulte's appointment demonstrates President Donald Trump's pledge to make housing affordable again and to expand the affordable housing across the country.
Bill Pulte, welcome to the Stone Zone.
Thank you, Roger.
Always good talking to you.
So we have a little bit of time before we have to go to break, and then we'll have more time to talk about your commitment to President Trump's agenda to make housing more affordable and to extend the housing stock in America.
But how did you find things when you were first appointed to the Federal Housing Finance Agency?
You have oversight of both Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, two of the most important engines for financing of homes in America.
But I remember you telling me that virtually nobody was showing up for work.
Yeah, we had 16,000 people, Roger, if you can believe that.
And most all of them were not going to work.
And it's crazy to think about it because these are the two largest companies in terms of asset size in the world.
Roger, we have, and Americans have, these two companies, Fannie Mae, with $4.4 trillion in assets.
Can you believe that?
And $3.4 trillion at Freddie Mac.
These are huge American icons.
And until President Trump showed up on the scene, as far as I'm concerned, no other presidents really gave a damn about these two companies.
You told me a great story, which I'm going to ask you to repeat.
You told a driver to take you to one of their corporate headquarters, and he didn't know where it was because he'd never been there.
Yeah, he said, I don't think those exist.
I wanted to go to the Fannie Mae office in Virginia and the Freddie Mac office in Virginia.
And he said, sir, I don't think we have offices out there.
And this is the guy who had been with all of the directors since inception.
So, look, you know, it is what it is.
What's happened in the past has happened.
But now we're in the driver's seat and we're affecting positive change.
We've been on the job eight weeks and we're moving at lightning speed because President Trump was given a mandate and we are doing everything we can to fill that out.
When we come back, I'm going to ask Bill Pulte about this Truth Social post by President Donald Trump.
He said yesterday, I'm giving very serious consideration to bringing Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac public.
I'm speaking with Treasury Secretary Scott Besant, Secretary of Commerce Howard Luttnick, and Director of the Federal Housing Finance Agency, William Pulte, among others, and will be making a decision in the near future.
Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are doing very well, throwing off a lot of cash, and the time would seem right to take them public.
So stay tuned.
When we come back, I'm going to ask Bill Pulte about that potentially historic posting on social media by President Donald Trump and talk about the prospects for more affordable housing, which is the marching order that President Trump has clearly given the agency director Bill Pulte, who joins us today.
Thanks for joining us in the Stone Zone today.
Bill Pulte probably knows more about housing than anybody I know.
Like Donald Trump, he's a businessman.
He doesn't come from government or politics.
He comes from the private sector.
I'm anxious to get his answers on the other side.
Whatever do, don't touch that dial because we'll be right back in the Stone Zone in just a few minutes.
Welcome back to the Stone Zone.
We're talking to Bill Pulte.
He was appointed director of the Federal Housing Finance Agency by President Donald Trump.
And in that role, he takes very seriously his charge from President Trump to make housing affordable for all Americans.
Again, he has already enacted incredible reforms at that agency.
Bill, let me ask you, how have inflation and the interest rates affected the current housing market?
And this is a matter of personal opinion.
Do you think the Federal Reserve should cut rates to create a further housing boom in America?
Well, I agree with all of President Trump's comments on the Fed needing to lower rates.
I would say that the inflation under Biden, and we all know this, was astronomical.
And what happens for people who don't know about mortgage rates and why mortgages are so unaffordable is mortgage rates generally track inflation rates.
So when inflation goes up, often mortgage rates go up.
And the reason for that is basically that, you know, when inflation goes up, people want to use interest rates to keep inflation down.
And so now we've got the situation that is a total mess that was created in the last four years.
And Roger, we're working every day to reverse the damage that's occurred in the last four years.
I'm incredibly optimistic that the president's going to be able to turn around the housing market and make houses affordable again, but we definitely have our work cut out for us.
Yeah, you recently upset the Democrats by firing the chief executive officers of both Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae, appointing yourself chairman, because, of course, you report directly to President Donald Trump.
What made these moves necessary?
Well, we saw a lot of fraud in the companies, and we, frankly, were frustrated with some of the poor decisions that were being made.
And, you know, like any good manager, when you come in and you don't think that things are being done right, you take what the required action is.
And so we went in and we took the action.
And I'll tell you, the best thing we ever did was become chairman because that gives you the ability to actually control things.
And when you're responsible for things, you need to be able to control the outcome.
I don't know how anyone can get anything done if they're accountable for something and they have no influence on the outcome.
And as you know, Roger, these companies, or said differently, anything that is affiliated in any way with the government, you know, they have almost like a deep state to them.
In other words, there's these people who just do not want progress to happen.
And, you know, what's funny is when you think somebody's on your side and then you find out that they really aren't, you know, that's the deep state.
It's where you don't think that people are going to show up.
And so we were just a fan of, you know, getting rid of the cancers that we believed were there.
And then, you know, hopefully the businesses will be stronger than ever before.
And I can tell you, Roger, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are stronger than ever.
So you mentioned finding a lot of mortgage fraud after digging around in your new position.
Is it fraud anywhere near the level of mortgage fraud that we saw in like 2007, 2008 that caused a mortgage crisis back then?
No, I don't think so.
But as you know, we want to avoid the slippery slope and we want to stop mortgage fraud where it is.
You know, I referred Letitia James to the Department of Justice you may have seen for what we believe to be mortgage fraud.
You know, I don't want to comment too much beyond that letter, but I would say to you, generally speaking, Roger, that there is an issue in this country where people are claiming that they live in one state and going and buying property in another.
There is also a situation where people are overstating their earnings.
There's also situations where people are claiming that they have more units in building or less units in buildings in order to get access to financing that would only be available at certain levels.
So we are taking a very strong approach to it.
It doesn't matter, Roger, whether you're a politician or whether you have an esquire after your name.
If you commit mortgage fraud in this country, we are going to come after you, period.
Well, no person is above the law.
I forget it was who said that, but I think she's about to find out.
Bill, your reaction to the passage last night of, I think, the single largest tax cut in American history by the House Republicans.
Well, it's following from the president's mandate, and obviously, you know, the president's mandate speaks for itself.
Look at what's happening now with the House of Representatives.
I'm sure the Senate will pass it in due course, hopefully, God willing, and we'll be off to the races.
But look, we've got a lot of work ahead of us, Roger.
These last four years, what happened with inflation and what happened with housing costs, you know, President Trump doesn't get much credit, but he's been able to bring down the inflation and housing costs.
And I wish that would be reported more.
I saw an interview you said there are a lot of things that were put in place during the first Trump administration that the Biden administration canceled and that you have brought back.
Can you mention a few?
Well, we've brought just back getting rid of all of the bureaucracy, even from the Obama era, if you can believe it.
I mean, we still have regulations that are just complete and utter nonsense that have been in place since Obama that were requiring all this bureaucracy, all of this reporting.
Roger, I mean, we saved almost $100 million.
Think about that.
$97 million is the exact number that I was told by the CFO of Fannie Mae.
$97 million just by getting rid of useless reporting, useless bureaucracy at Fannie Mae alone.
I mean, these numbers are astounding.
And by the way, Roger, not a day goes by where I don't get shocked with millions of dollars that we're saving.
The Fannie and Freddie are now extremely profitable, but nothing compared to what they could be.
I want to ask you about this tweet, or I should say, I think it was his first true social posting.
The president said, I'm giving serious consideration to taking Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac public.
I'll be speaking with Treasury Secretary Scott Besant, Secretary of Commerce Howard Luttnick, and the director of the Federal Housing Finance Agency, William Poultry, among others.
And we'll be making a decision in the near future.
Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are doing very well, throwing off a lot of cash, and the time would seem to be right.
So stay tuned.
Bill Poultry, what is the case for taking both Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac public?
Well, the president puts it better than anyone, and he says point blank, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are doing well, and they are.
People are back in the office.
These things are spitting out cash.
And frankly, if we have our way with them, which we will, they will be great American icons once again that have tremendous, tremendous earning power, and that are nursed to the benefit of the American people.
The whole reason that we did what we did with the chairmanship and taking a strong approach to making sure that there are good outcomes with this situation is exactly to make sure that we can deliver on what President Trump is saying, which is making sure that these businesses are spitting out cash and doing better than ever before.
I'll defer to the president in terms of what his truth post will mean.
Ultimately, he will be the one making the decision on it.
However, in the meantime, my main focus is on making sure that through the chairmanship, but most importantly through the directorship at FHFA, Federal Housing, through President Trump, that we are keeping all of our options open and running these businesses in tip-top shape.
And I can tell you, Roger, when you have 16,000 employees and no one showing up at work, they were not in tip-top shape under Biden.
They were in the toilet, and we're getting them back.
We're getting them back up and running.
And we're going to get going again.
I noticed one of your critics said this on social media.
I'll give you a chance to respond to it.
Somebody said that if Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were taken public, it would cause the value of housing bonds to crash.
Your view?
Well, we're extremely sensitive to, and we'll make sure that any study that we do in terms of this whole process and just thinking about it in general has to really be focused on making sure that there's not an upward pressure on mortgage rates.
And I'm very focused on it.
We're very focused on it.
And I think that it's going to be something that's very important to us.
So first and foremost, Roger, no matter what happens, is the safety and soundness of the mortgage market.
And I can guarantee you we are going to make sure that the mortgage market is safe, sound, and that there are not increased costs, no matter what the outcome is.
About a week ago, I think it was, I had Barry Habib, one of the nation's leading experts on both the housing and the mortgage market, a man who's actually credited with saving the mortgage market back in the past when he made a stunning presentation to the Federal Reserve.
And he made an excellent case for taking these public.
He also expressed great confidence in your leadership at FHFA, I might add.
I guess my concern here is that there are those out there who don't understand that Donald Trump, kind of like Bill Pote, is first and foremost a businessman, an entrepreneur, an understand man who understands the dynamic of business, and that these decisions made by the president, I think, could lead to a true golden age in terms of not just affordable housing,
but drop in inflation, lower grass prices, lower food prices.
I really do think we're on the cusp of a golden age.
On the Cusp of a Golden Age00:02:25
We are.
We are, but he has to reverse what's gone on the last four years.
And I keep saying this.
And, you know, it's not something we want to talk about.
But, I mean, Roger, the inflation that happened in the last four years is borderline.
You know, I mean, I don't even want to say it.
It's just not good.
It's just not good what happened under Biden.
And to your point, President Trump has gotten groceries down, eggs down, and he's gotten oil down.
One of the things he doesn't get credit for is home prices.
Home prices are not sky high in terms of rate of change quarter over quarter like they were.
I mean, Roger, people couldn't afford homes.
People could barely afford their rent.
So yes, we are on the cusp of that.
And I'm very positive and very positive about the economy under President Trump.
But what he's doing right now is nothing short of Herculean to turn around what happened the last four years.
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An amazing report just the other day, which was something Barry Habibi kind of tipped us to, which is virtually all of the job creation numbers published during the Biden years were bogus.
So they would project a net gain of 60,000 jobs, and it got huge headlines.
And then, of course, three days later, they would quietly restate that, ratcheting the numbers way down.
Of course, the second story never got any coverage.
So, I mean, most of the economic information that the Bureau of Labor Statistics was giving us had been cooked, cooked for political purposes, cooked to try to affect the 2024 election.
I'm not sure what can be done to ensure that the information being put forward by some of these federal agencies, which sadly are still riddled with holdovers, with people who are loyal to the last regime or loyal to the institution rather than committed to the president's pro-growth, pro-opportunity agenda.
But I think that it should be a high priority.
Want Strong Housing Market00:03:37
I agree.
And I think that, look, you got a great team, a great economic team, and they're going to get to the bottom of anything I believe as it comes up or as it's been done that they believe is untoward.
But, you know, in terms of our mortgage fraud, that's really where our focus is on, as you know, and making sure that there is safety and soundness in the mortgage market.
So I can't really, you know, help in that area.
But I can tell you one thing, Roger.
We are laser focused on this mortgage fraud.
And as I said earlier, if you are a politician or you are a famous person or you are a lawyer and you think you can get away with mortgage fraud in this country, you are underestimating what we are going to do to get rid of mortgage fraud.
You know, you have sweeping powers in that area.
And this idea that you are somehow weaponizing the system.
I mean, the facts are the facts.
This has all been very heavily documented.
We had Sam Antar, who is the publisher and editor of whitecollarfraud.com, who did the original analysis on this.
He shows you the actual documents.
So this isn't conjecture.
This isn't a projection.
This isn't polemics or propaganda.
The signed notarized documents are what they are.
And it is very compelling in the question of Attorney General Letitia James.
And then she just says the New York Times, oh, well, yes, I did sign a power of attorney in which I said that I was going to occupy this home in Virginia.
It would be my principal residence.
But before that, I signed an application that didn't say that.
Well, there is no such application.
New York Times just writes that as a fact, but you can look in the records.
There is no such notarized application.
It is amazing how the media seeks to cover for her.
And then, I don't know if you saw this bill, but they actually tried to move legislation in the New York state legislature where the taxpayers of New York would pay for her legal defense.
Her defense in actions she took, not as Attorney General, not in her official capacity as Attorney General, but as a private citizen.
Actions that she took that appear to me to constitute a 22-year record of mortgage fraud.
And the Democrats want the taxpayers of New York to pay for her legal defense.
She hired the lawyer, Abby Lowell.
He last represented Hunter Biden.
He'll sign his name to anything, whether it's true or not.
But I can tell you this, he's not cheap.
I see no reason why the taxpayers of New York should pay for that.
Bill, you don't have to comment on any of that.
I don't expect you to.
I did see.
I appreciate it.
And as I said, I can't comment beyond the letter.
But just as a general matter as it pertains to mortgage fraud, to your point, you know, we are in a, look, we look at housing and mortgages as not political.
I mean, we want a strong housing market.
We want a strong mortgage market.
It doesn't matter whether you're black, white, Republican, Democrat, politician, lawyer, famous person, not famous person, if you commit mortgage fraud, in our view, you are a threat to the market.
Very, very well put.
I saw in an interview the other day that you said when you got to FHFA, you found people working there posing as Americans, but who were not even U.S. citizens, Chinese citizens, Indian citizens.
Focus on Lending00:04:49
When we come back, I'm going to ask you about that.
I'm also going to ask you, given your family's reputation as builders, isn't part of the housing boom, the need to bring the cost of housing building materials down?
We'll be back with Bill Pulte to answer those questions on the other side.
Please, whatever you don't touch that dial, we'll be right back in the Stone Zone in just a minute.
And we're back in the Stone Zone for our final segment.
We're talking to William Pulte.
He was appointed by President Donald Trump as the head of the Federal Housing Finance Agency, FHFA, after a stunning,ly successful business career.
He's an entrepreneur, businessman.
Home building is in his blood.
His family, of course, is known as one of the premier homebuilding companies in the country.
He's also one of the earliest pioneers of online philanthropy, philanthropy, pardon me.
And we're glad to have him.
Bill, when it comes to housing, it's not just the availability of mortgages.
Don't we have to bring down the cost of home building materials?
I mean, roofing materials, bricks, wood, all the things, cement, all things go into home building.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
But under Biden, Roger, all these materials went up.
They went sky high.
And now we're trying to wrestle them and wrestle the ascent back to normal levels.
I mean, it was crazy what had gone on.
We really have to give credit, Roger, to President Trump because you look at what has happened to oil prices, which are a leading indicator for some of this.
You look at what's happened with groceries.
You look at what's happened with eggs.
Now we're starting to see it in some of these products, Roger.
And that's absolutely critical.
Drywall has become more affordable.
Lumber has become more affordable.
Kitchen and bath countertops have become more affordable.
And so these things are very important because, as you said, it takes two to tango.
You need the products and you need the mortgages to be affordable.
And one without the other, you're going to be in trouble.
And thankfully, we have a president, I believe, who understands that.
As the chief regulator for federal home loan banks, what have you told the heads of those banks?
I told them we got to get rid of climate.
We got to get rid of DEI as a result of what we look for when we go to hire board members.
It's crazy that we are focusing on climate and DEI in terms of lending money to people at a local level.
We need to focus on lending to banks.
We need to focus on lending to businesses.
We need to focus on lending to things that create jobs, not this nonsense DEI and climate stuff.
So we're getting back to business, Roger, and that's our mandate, and that's what we told.
I oversee Roger through that position, through the banking side of things.
A trillion dollars, $1 trillion is on the balance sheet of these 11 banks.
And we take it very seriously, just like we do the $7.8 trillion in the mortgage market.
All right.
I want to thank our guest, Bill Pultey.
He is, as I say, the director of the Federal Home Finance Agency and the man who's carrying out President Donald Trump's mandate to make housing affordable again and available again.
He also, as has been reported, recently sent a letter to the Department of Justice referring New York Attorney General Letitia James to that office for what his office investigators found as a serial series of actions that he and his investigators deemed as mortgage fraud.
The next step will be left up to the Department of Justice.
It has been confirmed by FBI Director Kash Patel that they are investigating.
It's also been confirmed that a grand jury to look at those claims has been impaneled in Virginia.
We will keep you up to date on that.
When the president decides whether or not he wants to take Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac public, as he speculated he may do in a true social posting last night, Bill, we'd love you to come back in the Stone Zone and talk to us about the implications of that.
So thank you again for joining us.
It's great talking to you.
It's great to have you.
For our friends out there listening to the Stone Zone, God bless you and Godspeed.
Until tomorrow.
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