Sept. 24, 2025 - Rubin Report - Dave Rubin
01:00:22
Participants
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| Speaker | Time | Text |
|---|---|---|
| I am blown away at the number of, I mean, Dave and Brussel, thousands of DMs that I've gone and who am I, about people just saying, I've I've I've I've never had, you know, faith strong enough to talk about out loud. | ||
| I've never read the Bible. | ||
| It is driving me to do that. | ||
| So, yes, there's going to be this, but first I get chills talking about this because I've never seen privately or publicly so many people refer to God. | ||
| Someone said to me the other day, someone came up to me at the airport and said, Dave, he ran turning point, but this might be a tipping point. | ||
| And I thought that that was I I thought that that was pretty I when I first met him at that RNC and like I've just become Christian, like a couple of months. | ||
| I'm all bewildered. | ||
| And I was reading, like I'm reading the Bible in one year, and so I was in the book of Romans. | ||
| And I like and then he was like, So what are you asking me about my Christianity? | ||
| And I'm like, yeah, I mean the book of Romans. | ||
| He's like, well, that's the Constitution. | ||
| That's the Christian constitution. | ||
| And I was like, oh, I thought about that when I was reading it and stuff. | ||
| All right. | ||
| This is actual friends. | ||
| And I must say that this week I am very happy to be with actual friends Sage Steele and Russell Brand. | ||
| Uh obviously, we don't really need a rundown for a show like this. | ||
| We all know what's going on here. | ||
| Um unfortunately, Sage was not with us uh last week, having gotten married only barely two weeks ago, which was so profoundly wonderful and such an incredible celebration of love. | ||
| And I was so honored to be there. | ||
| It was just great. | ||
| And then obviously a few days later, the the world has just uh changed clearly for the worse. | ||
| Uh Russell and I were on air doing the show when when we found out that uh Charlie had been shot. | ||
| We did not know that he was dead yet, although it did not look good. | ||
| And and we were kind of just working through it in real time. | ||
| And I I guess, guys, maybe the best way to kick off the show today is because we do this for a living, because we talk about all these things, and then we end up knowing these people. | ||
| And we we are these people in some sense. | ||
| It's hard to, as I said to you last week, Russell, it's like almost like we're narrating the end of the world that we're all part of. | ||
| It's something like that. | ||
| And and it's been really challenging for me. | ||
| I'm I'm really trying hard to level up and do this with as much honesty and emo and and true emotion as possible. | ||
| Uh, but it gets really complicated. | ||
| Sage, why don't I start with you? | ||
| Because you weren't here last week and and you do lead with emotion, which is one of the reasons I love you. | ||
| And I know you're always trying to you you always think it's like a weakness that you have or something, but like I I think it's great, and I think it's why people love you so much. | ||
| Um there's almost just no way to do this properly, right? | ||
| Talk about what's happening right now to really do it right. | ||
| Yeah, no, you're right. | ||
| And thank you for for saying that. | ||
| I think if we don't show some semblance of emotion over this, even if we didn't know Charlie, and all of us here did, um, there's something lacking in you as a human being in your soul, is just my personal opinion. | ||
| Um, yeah, I was on my honeymoon and and um, you know, had a very different mentality when all this happened, and needless to say, the honeymoon completely changed, and I went to work, so to speak, because I wanted to, you know, because I wanted to try to remember a man that has profoundly changed me. | ||
| Um there's a lot of negativity that we're gonna talk about on today's show. | ||
| What I will say is for me, the um the overwhelming beautiful messages, um, comments about Charlie, his family, people coming now to the forefront to talk about how much he changed them from afar, from sometimes thousands of miles away, you know, just on YouTube watching his clips. | ||
| Um, I do continue forward with positivity and with hope and optimism that something this disgusting and incomprehensible and wrong can have an incredible impact. | ||
| Kind of like what Erica Kirk said in her absolutely unforgettable and incredible comments on Friday night. | ||
| Um, so I'm glad we're gonna get into all of it because we have to. | ||
| We can't just focus on, hey, we're gonna be better stronger. | ||
| We have to go deeper into it. | ||
| And that's what we love to do on this show in general, and that's what we have to continue to do if we're gonna move forward and be better. | ||
| Yeah, and you know, we're we're gonna show a clip in a second of uh a Fox and Friends hit that I did on Friday morning. | ||
| I was in New York. | ||
| I was only there because Thursday was the memorial of 9-11. | ||
| So I was in New York for that. | ||
| I was in New York during 9-11. | ||
| My dad actually saw the second plane hit. | ||
| I had cousin who was a firefighter, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. | ||
| I was in New York for that. | ||
| And then it was insane because I'm at the 9-11 museum with the Cantor Fitzgerald people who lost 650 some odd employees. | ||
| I mean, just absolute uh unimaginable horror. | ||
| And in some sense, this almost sounds crazy, but it felt kind of small relative to Charlie. | ||
| And some of the memorial, they were Howard Lutnik, who was running uh Candor Fitzgerald, who's now in the Trump cabinet, he was talking and he started talking about Charlie at the 9-11 memorial. | ||
| I thought, man, this this thing is huge. | ||
| Russell, it feels to me it has like a stickiness that most things don't have anymore. | ||
| That, you know, we just go from story to story. | ||
| Last week everyone was focused on the Charlotte's uh the Charlotte murder, which was horrific, the light rail murder. | ||
| We're gone with that now. | ||
| But this thing feels like it's gonna stick and and maybe fundamentally change the country. | ||
| Yeah, I think you're right. | ||
| And thank you at the beginning covering the fact that it there'll be a lack of objectivity because of various degrees of personal connection, whether it's sort of professionally or personally with Charlie. | ||
| But I think uh yes, even just a week later, it's fascinating to look at its impact. | ||
| I've spoken to numerous people who didn't know who Charlie Kirk was prior to his death, that are now trying to understand why this is so significant. | ||
| Of course, it's the first political murder of its type, you know, sort of a significant American public figure since the 1960s in your country. | ||
| And I think it's the f like even though Charlie Kirk, there was so much about him that was traditional and literally conservative and Christian, obviously, and of course, he was also a modern phenomena in terms of what he did for a living and how he mobilized people and how he how he performed. | ||
| And so we've got the this is uh is a unique event, Dave. | ||
| And I think you the the sort of the, as you say, the viscosity of the event is because people are starting to recognize in the way that perhaps they did with the impact on various elections, whether it's Brexit or Trump, uh the first Trump election. | ||
| This is what is this significance? | ||
| And so we're gonna be dealing with, of course, people exploiting the death, people not honoring the death. | ||
| And it in a way, it isn't extraordinary with your point about 9-11, that in a sense it's part of a continuum because how was 9-11 used and exploited? | ||
| What what did we learn from 9-11? | ||
| How did it as an object? | ||
| There's like I was sort of saying today, actually, Dave, that there's the actuality of Charlie Kirk's death, a man who's a father and uh husband, and like that almost I can't think about that side of it. | ||
| It's still me. | ||
| But then there's this object now, Charlie Kirk, the object, the you know murdered Charlie Kirk as an object. | ||
| How is that being dissected, used, exploited? | ||
| And I think that's already super revealing. | ||
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| So let me throw to this clip. | ||
| This is from Fox and Friends uh on Friday morning, about 7 a.m. | ||
| I had woke up about 15 minutes before. | ||
| And just like you guys, we do all these TV shows. | ||
| It becomes kind of old hat. | ||
| You don't have to think about it that much. | ||
| You tell people what you think, that's it. | ||
| But as I was walking 10 blocks at 6.30 a.m. through New York City, I really was like, I have no, I knew I was gonna be on TV all day. | ||
| And I was like, I have no idea how I can do this properly, like actually emote properly, but but tell people really what I think and also not become part of the circus and everything else. | ||
| Uh, here I am sitting down with uh Lawrence Jones. | ||
| I mean, this is an unimaginable tragedy, not only for guys like you and I who knew him, but for the country. | ||
| What Charlie did consistently better than anyone, and I literally mean that in the United States of America was talk to the other side. | ||
| We know how tough it is, right? | ||
| We're we're in the media biz. | ||
| We try to reach out to these guys, and it can be very difficult to do that. | ||
| I'm I'm a former lefty. | ||
| That's what brought Charlie and I together, right? | ||
| I was leaving the left, and Charlie and I were debating, we would debate abortion, we'd debate marriage equality, death penalty, taxes, health care, the entire thing, and we would do it on stage together. | ||
| And even though we had huge disagreements, which over the years, thanks to Charlie, I actually evolved quite a bit. | ||
| Uh, and our differences got much smaller, much narrower. | ||
| But it was always respectful. | ||
| There was a hug at the end, we broke bread many times. | ||
| So, guys, the the thing that I maybe we should focus on a little bit is that Charlie represented the ability to talk to both sides. | ||
| We all talk to people for a living. | ||
| It's become increasingly difficult to do that. | ||
| And my fear right now is that after a couple days of mourning, it's just gonna go completely completely the other way. | ||
| What do you think about that, Sage? | ||
| When you say go completely the other way, what do you mean? | ||
| Meaning that that the anger emotion and going off into our own sides is gonna take over. | ||
| We're already starting to see some of that on Twitter, which we can get into or not. | ||
| Uh but I feel like there was a couple days, it was very brief, maybe three days of like everyone was kind of like, okay, wow, this this man has died. | ||
| This is horrific. | ||
| And now it's starting to veer into the okay, how do we use this for our own political purposes part? | ||
| And that's the thing that ends up always dividing us. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| No, listen, it does kind of feel like that right now. | ||
| Um, and it does tend to happen, it seems every single time something like this happens when you go back a week and a half ago to the to the situation in Charlotte with the young woman. | ||
| And immediately it's the horror, it's the emotion, it's the tears, and then it's the pointing of fingers. | ||
| And that is absolutely from both sides. | ||
| Um I I do feel that there's there you guys tell me what you think. | ||
| Is there one difference with this where I have never ever noticed as many people talking about God and faith this time after a tragedy? | ||
| Maybe if you go back 24 years to 9-11, but never ever. | ||
| No, I I think more now. | ||
| I think more now. | ||
| That was very political. | ||
| That was very, very d very political. | ||
| And rightfully so, immediately. | ||
|
unidentified
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Yeah. | |
| Um, and this is obviously political for all these networks and people who are like, well, we don't know the motive and shut up. | ||
| Like, I just I can't even do that. | ||
| Just let's be freaking honest for once. | ||
| Um, but I am uh blown away at the number of I mean, Dave and Russell, thousands of DMs that I've gone, and who am I, about people just saying, I've I've I've I've never had, you know, faith strong enough to talk about out loud. | ||
| I've never read the Bible. | ||
| It is driving me to do that. | ||
| So yes, there's going to be this, but first I get chills talking about this because I've never seen privately or publicly so many people refer to God and their faith after something so tra maybe it's because we've actually never seen anything like this on live TV. | ||
| It came this close with Donald Trump. | ||
| He was on live TV when that happened last July 13th in Butler, Pennsylvania too. | ||
| But to see this to a young man, I I feel like it has turned. | ||
| It is a turning point. | ||
| It actually is. | ||
| And so maybe that's why they'll there's gonna be this, but the good people are going to shout down some of that ugliness, and hopefully that's what ends up being their pervasive thought. | ||
| What am I too optimistic to think that? | ||
| Russell, I want you to jump in here, but real quick because you mentioned turning point. | ||
| Someone said to me the other day, someone came up to me at the airport and said, Dave, he ran turning point, but this might be a tipping point. | ||
| And I thought that that was I I thought that that was pretty good. | ||
| I don't know if they meant it purely in the political sense, or maybe they did mean it in the spiritual sense that you're talking about. | ||
| But Russell, Russell, I mean, I it's like I don't know that we're to the silver lining part of this, but as someone that publicly talks about their faith an awful lot and has had their own evolution, let's say here, I mean, you must be feeling somewhat um well I don't want to put words in your mouth validated or affirmed that some of the things that you care about are kind of scaling up. | ||
| Well, I don't know where else you would go, actually, is why. | ||
| I don't know, other than Christ where one can turn. | ||
| Not just because of the extent of the tragedy, because of course what many of the people that look to exploit it from an oppositional perspective will say is, well, who cares about this when there's these deaths that are connected to my perspective or my political point of view. | ||
| And well, you know, when you see in a short period of time, JD Vance say the appear to say, along with Pam Bondi, that this legitimizes a rescinding of many of the previous positions of the right when it comes to free speech and free expression. | ||
| There's free speech and then there's hate speech. | ||
|
unidentified
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So when you see someone celebrating Charlie's murder, call them out in hell. | |
| Call their employer. | ||
|
unidentified
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We don't believe in political violence, but we do believe in civility. | |
| That's horrific. | ||
| It's free speech, but you shouldn't be employed anywhere if you're gonna say that. | ||
| I feel kind of a a concern, although I understand it when you see something like my c my countryman Bob Villain, who you may have heard of because when he was at Glastonbury, he sort of said some pretty intense things about Israel. | ||
| And I reckon that would have been on your radar particular day. | ||
| But he like said some stuff that I actually gasped. | ||
| I don't think I didn't think I was at that point in my life where I would go like he said like some such uh derogatory things about Charlie Kirk, God rest his soul. | ||
|
unidentified
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What is that piece, Charlie Kirk and piece of shit? | |
| Then I remembered, I remembered me on September the 12th, 2001, while I was an MTV presenter in the UK dressing up as awesome Mar bin Laden, going to work that day. | ||
| And I thought it wasn't, you know, I was a drug addict, and so obviously literally not in my right mind, but it was like I couldn't handle the scale of what happened. | ||
| And as a little show-off, I wanted to kind of uh uh be close to it and understand it. | ||
| And I already knew about Mar Bin Laden, and I couldn't believe that something that was on my radar had had such extraordinary consequences. | ||
| And I can't deal with Bob Villain doing that or J. D. Vance and Pam Bondy sort of saying that maybe hate speech is a thing and you should snitch on people if they say desecratory or disrespectful things about Charlie Kirk, although I can understand the outrage. | ||
| I can understand, I can understand, I can understand why people would even say things about Charlie Kirk that are um disrespectful and disgusting because and the only path I can walk through it now is with Jesus. | ||
| Like the immediately forgive Bob Villain for saying that. | ||
| That's what I reckon Charlie Kirk would be down with, certainly that's what Christ would be down with. | ||
| I understand why people now might change their positions on free speech, because that's that too, it requires compassion. | ||
| I don't see how from a political, rational, philosophical perspective, you can navigate not only the death of Charlie Kirk, but the subsequent reaction without Christ. | ||
| And that's why I'm fascinated. | ||
| Although I'm not certain, I just have the certainty that comes from surrendering to him. | ||
| Well, I I don't know if you guys saw my uh tweet about this a couple of days ago, but you know, Charlie, over the last couple of years, he was also starting to celebrate uh Shabbat, the Jewish Sabbath, obviously starting on Friday night sundown into Saturday night sundown. | ||
| And I tweeted out, you know, we've been trying to do that a bit more around my house and really get off uh get offline for that period of time and everything else. | ||
| But I've committed to myself and I fully will keep it up that we will now keep that in my house uh going forward. | ||
| That's something I can do. | ||
| It's it's for Charlie in some sense, but I think it's something that uh we all could do. | ||
| Charlie obviously was not Jewish, but he was keeping the Jewish Sabbath, which certainly would be in line with all of his other religious values. | ||
| But Dave, when I ask you real quick, because what what what for you and for David is it about what happened that is making you say, okay, this is the the the turning point and my life at home as a father that makes you now want to implement this. | ||
| Well, I you know, we've been coming around to some of those things just by the nature of being parents now, where then you know, you know, as a mother of three, like then you start realizing some of the things that came before you and the traditions that came before you and the beliefs and all the things that set you up, hopefully to have a good life. | ||
| So we've been trying to do a little Bit more of that in general, but I saw somebody tweet about I saw somebody tweet the video where Charlie talks about why he keeps uh the Jewish Sabbath. | ||
| And I just thought it was so wonderfully said with all of the goodness that people are now coming around to realize Charlie was about, that I thought, man, like what what a I'd be giving something to him in a sense, but it's really giving it to myself, and it's and it's the easiest thing to do. | ||
| And as you guys know, I mean, I I had a running joke with Shapiro for the last 10 years. | ||
| I take August off, and he always goes, Dave, you take 30 days off, but you know we have one day a week, we're supposed to do it. | ||
| So it's like it it it's actually an easy thing to do in some sense. | ||
| So that's nice. | ||
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| But Sage, let me throw to uh this other clip that which you referenced a moment ago. | ||
| So this is CNN where there is this desire now to not make it political because it appears to be political in the direction that they do not want it to be political. | ||
| And here is uh well, it's Montel Williams starting Scott Jennings, who you just had on your podcast finishing. | ||
| Take a look. | ||
|
unidentified
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Talking about a love-torn child, a kid. | |
| This is probably his first real relationship, and somebody was disparaging the person that he loved. | ||
| He sat on that building for 30 minutes before he took the shot. | ||
| Why did he wait until the first word trans came up? | ||
| Then he took the shot. | ||
| You think he heard it? | ||
| You could he could hear it. | ||
| I think he could hear it. | ||
| I think he also I don't believe he was motivated politically. | ||
| I think this was motivated emotionally. | ||
| Guys. | ||
| Guys. | ||
| The evidence here is overwhelming. | ||
| He said, Charlie Kirk, I can't stand this hate anymore. | ||
| I'm gonna take him out. | ||
| He the testimony from him in the statements of his family, he had become more left-wing. | ||
| He etched the statements that are made by the left about Republicans and conservatives and Charlie Kirk fascist on the bullet cases. | ||
|
unidentified
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He made a joke about it in his last text. | |
| Well, it doesn't sound like a joke to me because someone's dead and about to be buried. | ||
| Well, it doesn't sound like a joke to me. | ||
| So I'm just telling you, there is an effort, there was an effort all weekend long on the left to try to make this guy sound like he was a conservative. | ||
| That failed. | ||
| That was passed around all over the week, and that has now failed. | ||
| The evidence has now come out. | ||
| He was motivated by hate, he was motivated by left-wing radicalism. | ||
| He got mixed up with some trans ideology in his life. | ||
| We'll learn more about that, I'm sure, when more evidence and testimony comes out. | ||
| We are looking around the edges of this for something other than what staring us in the face. | ||
| Left wing radicalism got this kid, he went up to a roof and he murdered our friend, and that's what happened. | ||
| All right, so you guys know Scott always does a bang up job cleaning up the mess that these guys put out there. | ||
| Montel Williams, just as a sidebar, you guys know that he was once dating Kamala Harris just as a complete like how the hell do these worlds about that these worlds just collide in weird ways. | ||
| But Russell, the the point that Montel started with, and he's trying I can see he's trying to lead with empathy. | ||
| So I'm I'm not gonna try I'm gonna try not to mock him here, but he says something kind of insane. | ||
| He basically says this was not motivated politically, it was moti motivated emotionally. | ||
| But the emotion that motivated him to kill was because of the purported political beliefs that Russell had. | ||
| So it strikes me as just why are you why are you trying to confuse the issue here? | ||
| He was dating apparently this trans person, or it was his roommate or lover, or whatever it is, and he killed Charlie because of what he believed Charlie's position on these issues were. | ||
| If that's not political, then what the high hell is political. | ||
| I think that, yeah, that's some extraordinary sophistry from Montell Williams there that he would evidently have to deploy when thinking about his date in history as well. | ||
|
unidentified
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He must do a rationalizing. | |
| Yeah, I I didn't know that. | ||
| I uh it's very difficult, I would say, to form a cleavage between that guy's reported romantic life and the assassination of Charlie Kirk. | ||
| And I don't know why you would want to. | ||
| It's clearly a factor. | ||
| And even for saying it's emotionally motivated rather than politically, as if emotion and politics are separate. | ||
| They're not separate categories anyway. | ||
| It's uh really that was uh I saw that clip before, but I didn't see Scott Jennings response, and there was actually some the uh Scott Jennings handled it because that that was a ghouling piece of uh cause history from Montel Williams there. | ||
| Sage, what do we do about the the both sides of this thing? | ||
| That that's been the thing that I when I when I have been talking about the political part, even though I've been trying to talk about the emotional part, that's the part that I'm really trying to draw the line in the sand on. | ||
| This thing where they're all getting up there now and saying, well, so first off they try to confuse you, it's about emotions, and this was a love story, basically. | ||
| Um but the other part is the both sides thing, that somehow both sides are equally guilty, which just as like a notion is nonsense. | ||
| Things are not equal, right and left are not equal. | ||
| It doesn't necessarily mean one is inherently better than the other, but to just be like, okay, well, both sides do it, it's a 50-50 thing, it's it's like the most low resolution thinking you could possibly come up with. | ||
| I do want to add that, you know, it's one thing for analysts, uh, not that Montel Williams is an analyst, but guests to come on and say things and you kind of go, okay, fine. | ||
| When the journalists in the room, and I use that term lightly these days. | ||
| Yeah, yeah. | ||
| Um Caitlin Collins come on and is arguing incessantly with Senator Ted Cruz the other day. | ||
| Yeah, and saying, well, we don't know that it's politically motivated. | ||
| I think, you know what, I guess they just continue to stomp on their own graves because as journalism we know has been dead now for a long time, and the mainstream media people like Caitlin Collins continue to cement that unfortunately. | ||
| If if only they would just tell the truth, which is kind of obvious here, fine, still say alleged about the alleged assassin, fine, do all those journalistic things, but at the end of the day, when we know for a fact that those certain terms, fascist, et cetera, were written on the bullets and on the casings, then we don't have to pretend anymore. | ||
| To me, I think one of the problems, one of the reasons why we got in this position in the first place, is because so many people who are center to center right and a little bit more conservative, because I was uh one of these people that stayed quiet. | ||
| And unfortunately, what we did is we allowed the microphone, all the platforms to go to just one side, one ideology. | ||
| And for uh on TikTok on every single platform, and it's like, okay, just stay quiet, just do it to keep your job. | ||
| And what that did is that only allowed certain ideologies, many like this, to go into the heads of these young kids. | ||
| And so, and so now I'm not saying that's the only thing to point your finger at, but when everyone else stays quiet, just because it's scary and it's easier, and you're trying to be more peaceful in many ways and not stir the pot and not debate more, then the other possibilities, the other opinions are never heard on these platforms. | ||
| And so to me, that is one thing that we absolutely must do, along with, in in my opinion and personally for me, getting on my knees even more and praying and leading with God, but also to not live in fear. | ||
| And you've got to speak up. | ||
| So our kids can at least hear both sides and come up with their own opinions, and not only hear that Donald Trump and Charlie Kirk and everybody on the right is a fascist and a Nazi. | ||
| So I think we do have to take some responsibility there, because the silence in many ways is compliant, and the silence then from from both sides, you know, one side in particular, allows so many people to believe what they're hearing from the this ugliness. | ||
| And and it's devastating. | ||
| We can no longer afford to be silent. | ||
| We just have to do it differently. | ||
| And I think that we already are. | ||
| When you look at the response to it, there are no cities burning down. | ||
| There are no riots. | ||
| None of that is happening, unlike the summer of lab in 2020. | ||
| If this were reversed, and I know I shouldn't do that. | ||
| No, of course. | ||
| No, but it's the truth. | ||
| We've seen it historically, and we can no longer afford to be silent, but we must do it better. | ||
| You know, let's so to that point, let me, I'm gonna, we're gonna toss away the last clip that I was gonna throw to you here. | ||
| I want to ask you something else, because you were just making me think something's age. | ||
| Do you think in some sense, you the three of us are roughly the same age? | ||
| And we grew up in a time where everyone, it was not cool to be racist, it was not cool to hate gays. | ||
| It was not like we had we were so post-much of the craziness that in some sense there's no one out there, and I include us in this that can actually really speak to what a kid who's say between 12 and like 19 is really going through right now. | ||
| When you think of COVID and you think of TikTok and the access to all of the shit they have on their phone and how their parents lock them in their bedroom because of COVID and the government lied to them and all of the other stuff that we always talk about. | ||
| In some sense, there's no way to actually analyze the psychological condition of an 18-year-old kid who by all accounts came from a decent family, two parents, blah, blah, blah. | ||
| Ends up in this ideology, this queer trans ideology or whatever, and then murders someone for it. | ||
| It's it's almost impossible for us, because we didn't grow up in a time where we were being told the world was gonna end because of climate change tomorrow, everything was systemically racist, your genitals don't match. | ||
| So we've basically like given them this horrific poison and then said to them, good luck with all of that. | ||
| Russell, did that make any sense? | ||
| Yeah, it made good sense, actually. | ||
| First time I sort of heard that argument that what was created was a global laboratory where people were subject to unprecedented conditions. | ||
| And you're right. | ||
| I I I mean, even myself, I can't conceive of how if your driving ideology was that people's individual identity is the most important thing about them, and if they want to subvert even their anatomical uh appearance in order to uh convene more closely with their spiritual identity, I still don't know how you get to, and then therefore I'm gonna shoot Charlie Kirk. | ||
| That's still kind of crazy. | ||
| But like what is, I think, really interesting about what you've just said is that we don't know the repercussions of that extraordinary and deceptive time. | ||
| That too, like something you mentioned, Sage, had a brief window at the beginning of COVID where we're all like, oh, well, we're all in this together. | ||
| We better like help one another because life is so life is important. | ||
| We all have to protect one another. | ||
| Then that went and it became about sort of try and mistrust and hatred and division. | ||
| Yeah, we're gonna maybe there a peculiar incubation period of hysteria was created. | ||
| And I I I think that's a really interesting set of connections that you've made. | ||
|
unidentified
|
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| Hey, hey, Dave and Russell, I mean, you guys know the ages of my kids, 19, 21, and 23. | ||
| Uh, the younger two are still in college. | ||
| So subtract five years, and we were in the thick of things during COVID when we were shut down, living in the Northeast, which was completely Insane. | ||
| And I can tell you, as a mother, I felt like I long before what happened last week, I felt like I had failed in many ways because I almost had to give up and allow my kids to go on their devices more. | ||
| Because that was the only social interaction they were allowed to have. | ||
| They weren't allowed to go to school. | ||
| They weren't allowed to participate in sports. | ||
| And so all they had was this. | ||
| And I saw it, and all of a sudden you see, you know, these inappropriate dance moves and everybody's doing TikTok dances. | ||
| But guess what? | ||
| They were really smart and they kept pushing more after that in the ideology. | ||
| And so my kids were on a group text constantly. | ||
| And before Charlie Kirk, before this happened last week, I mean, we were constantly going back and forth. | ||
| I'm like, Mama, what about this? | ||
| And I thought Donald Trump said this. | ||
| And mom, what do you think about this? | ||
| And mom, really, are you sure, mom? | ||
| Are you sure? | ||
| Because they only saw one thing. | ||
| It has been the battle, a battle I can't even describe over the last several years to say, okay, guys, but you can't just get your news from TikTok. | ||
| And fortunately, I feel like I've made up a little bit for what I felt was a failure back during COVID when we're locked down, but I still had to go to work every day. | ||
| I couldn't monitor. | ||
| I couldn't babysit everything that was coming onto their phones and their laptops. | ||
| And so the conversations have been incredible because they're mature enough to listen to me now and not think I'm the double because I would, you know, make them make their beds and clean up after themselves. | ||
| But like they realized they were only getting their news from one source. | ||
| And this happened last week. | ||
| And my kids asked for a FaceTime with me, which never happens. | ||
| The three of them who say, Mom, we need you. | ||
| Number one, they're scared. | ||
| They're like, Mom, please, no more. | ||
| Please don't go speak. | ||
| Please don't go anywhere. | ||
| Don't go near a college campus. | ||
| It's not worth it. | ||
| Mom, we love you, but please don't. | ||
| We're all for crying on the phone. | ||
| Um, and number two to truly make an effort. | ||
| My oldest already has to listen to all different kinds of platforms, not just one. | ||
| And the younger two are now. | ||
| Um, but that's only because I've been choking them and saying, you guys, you can't just take it in from there. | ||
| It is incumbent upon the parents. | ||
| Um, it's not too late for some, obviously, the damage has been done, and we have to pray for those people. | ||
| But as parents, we have to continue, continue to make sure that they are not getting everything from just one source. | ||
| It is evil what has been put out there. | ||
| And I don't know that anyone, anyone who's being honest with themselves, can deny that based just on the last week. | ||
| And since then, and the reactions on college campuses of so many kids laughing and stomping on the grave of Charlie Kirk, so to speak. | ||
| So we have a huge job to do. | ||
| And I am heartbroken. | ||
| I'm heartbroken for this generation that we have done this to. | ||
| Well, Sage, let me give you a little public credit here because I spent a lot of time at the wedding with all three of your kids, and those are mature, bright, fun, happy, loving human beings. | ||
| So I know you know that, but it's very true. | ||
| And Russell, real quick before I hand it off to you guys, um, you know, to your point also about the hysteria. | ||
| This so let's say you really thought uh Charlie was the worst of all things. | ||
| Like actually, whatever that means. | ||
| If the answer, if your answer was, okay, I have a trans lover, and to stop Charlie, I must kill him. | ||
| Well, now look at the fruits of what you've done. | ||
| You're gonna he this per Tyler Robinson may die by firing squad because they have death penalty in Utah. | ||
| But his one way or another, his life is over. | ||
| Uh his functioning life is over. | ||
| And the the partner, lover, whatever you want to call him, his life is over too. | ||
| So if the idea was I'm going to assassinate someone so we can live a happy life, it's like that that's the total reverse of what you did. | ||
| So there's just so many, so many layers here. | ||
| Who am I throwing to now? | ||
| Me, I think. | ||
| Take it over, Russell. | ||
| Marshall McLuhan, uh, the Canadian, I think, cultural analyst and philosopher coined the famous phrase, the medium is the message, I think coined to explain that if mass media is controlled by a few individuals, the messaging you'll receive likely the agenda of those few individuals. | ||
| We all know the MSNBC, CNN, the BBC ultimately represent a handful of views when it comes to global imperialism, the power of the state, partnerships between commerce and deep state bureaucracies that amount to the nullification of democracy as we understand it. | ||
| If the medium really is the message these days, Media has changed radically, and Charlie Kirk is perhaps a martyr not just for Christianity or republicanism or conservatism, but for this new form of media where everybody can have a voice. | ||
| Maybe it's a free market ideology where the best messaging will succeed, but maybe there are other factors too. | ||
| Certainly say it's just expressed her concerns about her own uh young adult children receiving a good amount of their information from TikTok and from other short-form platforms. | ||
|
unidentified
|
In the United Kingdom, there is division. | |
| For a brief moment this weekend, there appeared to be something resembling Unity because the nationalist marches led by Tommy Robinson, seemed to be very, very successful and to go off almost without a hitch. | ||
| We had a reporter there ourselves, and I believe we have some coverage of that march now. | ||
|
unidentified
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*crash* | |
| It was a very well-attended march. | ||
| My friend Joe went and he said that it was jubilant in the main. | ||
| There was some solemnity, and uh there was a celebration and honoring of Charlie Kirk was part of it. | ||
| What perhaps fascinated me most of all uh was that the counter-protests seemed pallid, listless, pale, and awful, even for a kind of Antifa-inspired movement, masked uh denizens of basements everywhere that wouldn't show their faces and couldn't really show their colours. | ||
| What's fascinating is Elon Musk appeared and spoke at that mask at that march, excuse me, uh, but via satellite or via some kind of link up, of course. | ||
| Um, and what's interesting is between Elon Musk and Tommy Robinson, you have perhaps in a way comparable to the certainly to the posthumous impact of Charlie Kirk in that. | ||
| Tommy Robinson is persona non grata in the UK. | ||
| He's been jailed, he's been banned, he would be cancelled into oblivion, were it not for the fact that Elon Musk has taken an interest in particular around his reporting about rape gangs in the United Kingdom and has reposted a lot of Tommy Robinson content. | ||
| So now you have a robust nationalist movement that's entirely outside of state-sanctioned centralized control. | ||
| And even those people on the left that were in attendance are in agreement with the majority of those marches on one thing. | ||
| Keir Starmer and the current UK government are in total failure and near collapse. | ||
| Here, I think is some of uh Elon Musk's conversation with Tommy Robinson, and I really want to hear what both of you think about what this means, particularly in the life of Charlie Kirk's death for new politics, i.e., someone that is outside of the British political system, Elon Musk, who's essentially now a sort of at least in this role, a magnate for media and communications, and a marginal peripheral and you know, in some cause despised figure like Tommy Robinson are able to create and generate this kind of interest. | ||
| What does it say about the British government? | ||
| What does it say about media and communications and what does it say about the future of the UK? | ||
| Let's have a look at the Elon Musk clip, I think it is. | ||
| The government can obviously use uh whatever powers are available uh to suppress the people. | ||
| Um so I I really think that there's got to be a change of government in Britain. | ||
| Um and you can't we we don't have another four years or whatever the next election is. | ||
| It's it's it's too long. | ||
| There's genuine risk of rape and murder and the destruction of the country and dissolution of the entire way of life. | ||
| If you weren't under a massive attack, then people should go about their business and and just you know look their lives. | ||
| But unfortunately, uh if the fight comes to you, you don't have a choice. | ||
| So you have to rally the the whole, all of the people of Britain to fight for the future. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Let me ask you, there won't be a future. | |
| Are you ready to fight for your future, Britain? | ||
| Fight for your future. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Do it go. | |
| Will we be gagged any longer, Britain? | ||
| Well, there you go, a bit of jingoism and excitement there, and Elon Musk doing his excited persona, which is always bringing some very particular feelings to the forefront for me, God love him, that glorious and magnificent nerd. | ||
| Um, Dave, what do you think about that movement? | ||
| And do you see that turning into real political collateral? | ||
| And what do you think it indicates about the UK, mate? | ||
| Well, Russell, you uh you uh asked three questions, right, when you threw into that. | ||
| I had to write them all down because you say a lot of things per sentence. | ||
| So, first, as for the British government, the British government is completely screwed. | ||
| Keir Starmer, I don't know, look, I know I'm in my own bubble as we all are. | ||
| I don't know anyone that supports the guy. | ||
| You're right. | ||
| Now the left is turning on him too. | ||
| He's been just like a middle management nothing that that for the most part people can fully see through. | ||
| He also had a lot to do with the hiding of the Pakistani rape gang. | ||
| So he's on his way out one way or another. | ||
| He's either not radical enough for the left or he's just too transparently nothing for the right. | ||
| So he's done. | ||
| The media portion we discuss all the time. | ||
| I mean, I think this again represents to see Elon showing up with Tommy Robinson, who you're right, has been kicked out of every mainstream institution in your country. | ||
| Uh, Pierce Morgan won't even have him on his show. | ||
| You know, I had Tommy on my show in 2016. | ||
| We were supposed to have him on yesterday, but subsequently, because there the uh there was such um that was such a huge event, he had to postpone because he's doing a lot of media now. | ||
| But like, this is a guy who he's not racist, he's fighting for his country. | ||
| I don't know all of his political beliefs, but there's just simply no reason to think that that he wants anything much more grand than for than Britain for British people to have some values that were consistent with what your country had for quite literally thousands of years. | ||
| Um I don't think there's a racial component to that per se. | ||
| Um, but sometimes there is different cultures are different, and let's just leave that there. | ||
| And then the final question that you asked was about the future of the UK. | ||
| That's the first time I've seen anything out of the UK in the last 10 years that gave me any hope for your country. | ||
| I I've been to the I've been to the UK probably once a year for the last 10 years, uh, usually just London area, Oxford, Cambridge, that kind of thing. | ||
| And every single time it seems worse, but not only does it seem worse, it seems like the hope is gone. | ||
| And uh Carl Benjamin, who you guys might know, he goes by the name of Sargon of Akkad on uh YouTube or he used to go by that when he became real famous, but now Carl Benjamin, he tweeted out something like a year ago that I thought was really interesting. | ||
| He's like, you know, you walk around London, you don't see any real Brits anymore. | ||
| You see a lot of Islamists and whatever. | ||
| He said, if you want to find real Brits, they're all in the pub at 11 a.m. | ||
| And it's like, well, that is a problem on multiple levels. | ||
| You don't see the people you're supposed to see on the street, and the people who might defend your country are actually getting drunk because they know the party's over. | ||
| So the fact that there were some estimates of about two million people out there uh is an unbelievably inspiring sign. | ||
| And having Elon involved, which we know how integral he was to getting Trump re-elected, like maybe there is a little hope across the pond. | ||
| I I I'm so glad you said it that way, Dave, too, because I saw the video and Russell, I I kept Googling, looking for more because I'm like, is this really happening? | ||
| Is it really happening there? | ||
| And is it happening for these reasons? | ||
| I think so often over the last couple of years, I'm like, gosh, what is going on over there with you know, expressing, expressing disappointment? | ||
| W why do you think? | ||
| Because I don't know enough about the history. | ||
| I've only been there once, unfortunately. | ||
| But like, what why do you think that I hate to use that phrase turning point again? | ||
| But when's the last time we saw that many people in the streets in London, peacefully doing what they were doing, marching and and and listening and seemingly caring so much. | ||
| Why was this the moment? | ||
| Well, also marching for their country. | ||
| I think that's the distinction because London has marches every week. | ||
| They're just not for London or for Britain. | ||
| And this was wildly different. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| The last march of that scale was when Tony Blair took Britain into the Iraq war, erroneously and deceitfully. | ||
| And I feel that when you get a mass demonstration of that scale, particularly one that is at odds with the agenda of the media. | ||
| Of course, as you're saying, Sage, like they're trying to minimize, obfuscate, tell a different story about it, they're racist. | ||
| You know, at his core, it seems it's anti-migration. | ||
| That's a significant part of Tommy Robinson's focus. | ||
| But that in itself, as I said when I spoke to him, I said that the migration issue is likely a symptom of an expression of power from elsewhere, because migrants aren't by themselves, by definition, a powerful group. | ||
| They may be the beneficiaries of power, but what would be the reason for that? | ||
| And what I'm starting to sort of feel, and I'm like really torn both of you, and forgive me being absolutely transparent as best as I can be for a moment. | ||
| Like in the last week, I felt like exhausted. | ||
| I felt a bit on the day even prior to Charlie's murder. | ||
| I felt like, and we've actually talked about it offline before. | ||
| It's like, I don't know how much longer I can keep on doing this, talking about the stuff, the endless cycle, the churn, things that you don't know anything about, things you don't understand but have to commentate on, things that just seem cyclical and bewildering and heartbreaking and awful and just generate more and more hatred. | ||
| This, though, this sort of set of events makes me start to understand that the real core problem is control of information has been lost. | ||
| And maybe COVID in that period was an attempt to assert a level level of authoritarianism that was required going forward to legitimize censorship. | ||
| Now, if you can mobilize that many people without legacy media support, with with legacy media lying about it, denying it, even if it's not perfect in its motivations, you can see that the real problem, and this might be the reason Charlie Kirk ends up getting murdered one way or another, the reason that other people get smeared, and perhaps even including myself, is because information can't be sufficiently controlled. | ||
| And because of that, you have to find ways of shutting down alternative voices and legitimizing centralized control. | ||
| When if the medium is the message, the message must be this decentralize, maximize power of the individual, maximize power of the community, maximize power of the state, maximize power of the nation. | ||
| If that is a true reflection of the people in that nation. | ||
| Obviously, Britain have pushed its population to a tipping point. | ||
| Because that ain't normal for Britain. | ||
| Certainly, as you say, they've not motivated by patriotism. | ||
| So I felt like kind of heartened by it, even though I'm still, you know, really confused overall by just what's been going on. | ||
| All that begins as individuals, doesn't it? | ||
| And by each of us using our voices and looking in the mirror, because it is exhausting, and you want to run away sometimes, but then you kind of are part of the problem. | ||
| And like I tried to point out earlier, um, then you're only allowing one group, one thought to permeate everything. | ||
| Um and I do also think it's not just it's not just, you know, your everyday people, neighbors, it is people who are in Hollywood where we know it's a much higher percentage who actually believe in pretty conservative values, at least middle of the road, but have been quiet and silent and taking that paycheck. | ||
| Um, it is athletes who I know for a fact, all of us know for a fact, have quite often very conservative views, but have stayed silent. | ||
| And so if the people who are the most comfortable financially, um and with the biggest platforms are choosing to stay silent, why would the quote unquote little people have the courage to speak up? | ||
| So I do think um we all have to take that responsibility, and especially those with platforms and who don't have as much to risk financially. | ||
| Um it is looking in the mirror and it is going back to Russell, like you you cannot. | ||
| You you can't go anywhere. | ||
| You can't get quiet. | ||
| You can't away, like we need your voice, and you have been so raw and so vulnerable with so many things, very personal things, and in particular, your faith now, where when you see so many people turning to God and you see you see the effect. | ||
| Like, we need you now more than ever, actually. | ||
| If I can pile on if Russell's ego can deal with it for a moment, let me just say two things on that, and then we'll kick it to Sage. | ||
| Um, you know, Russell, you just said the thing about trans, you know, radical transparency and that this can grind us all down and everything else. | ||
| Um yeah, it can, and that's why I've been enjoying doing this with you guys so much. | ||
| It was I didn't know it when I was originally sort of came up with the idea for the show, it was just like, ah, I love Sage and I love Russell, and we'll bring in some other people and it'll be kind of fun. | ||
| But I think what we've all learned while doing this is there's been something where this is in some sense, this is like therapy for us to be able to go out and do the other job that we do all week. | ||
| And that's why it's been been really nice, because yeah, there are moments when you can get up and you're like, man, the war is still here. | ||
| But to that point, um, you know, about a year ago, I was under like endless assault from the media from like a million things and had all these people turning on me and all this stuff. | ||
| And I didn't know who to turn to exactly. | ||
| I probably could have, I'm sure I was Texting you guys, but I I called Jordan Peterson, who like he's at the top of my, you know, you call in the emergency thing. | ||
| And I said to him, I was like, Jordan, you know, there's a part of me that's just like just get out now. | ||
| Just you did it, you did it. | ||
| It's time to go and and just disappear. | ||
| And what he said to me was, he's like, Dave, there's a war, and you can try to hide in Bora Bora, but the war will still come to you. | ||
| There, there's no end to this. | ||
| So, how whatever, to whatever extent we all play a role in it, it's like you can't really hide from it. | ||
| And especially we're all parents now. | ||
| And Russell, you got you got a son who's younger than my guys, and it's like, so okay, so Russell Brand dips out because it's painful to do this, or we get hate or whatever it might be. | ||
| Well, then we've just acquiesced the room to make the world worse for our kids, and I simply won't do that. | ||
| So I'm proud to be in the fight with you guys. | ||
| And we have to go even deeper and ask why. | ||
| Why are we in these roles? | ||
| To have a little bit of a voice, to have a platform. | ||
| Why are we here? | ||
| Okay, yes. | ||
| Had some success, financial success, fame, fortune, all the things. | ||
| And I think we all know now it's much bigger than that. | ||
| So when the going gets tough, even though I have felt pressure on my chest over the last week, too, like, why? | ||
| And let's just run away. | ||
| Let's just go, you know, I'll take less in my life. | ||
| Like to me, it's so much bigger. | ||
| Why are we here? | ||
| Why has God put us in these positions to speak up? | ||
| Um, so we all have choices to make. | ||
| And I think there are, listen, from a security perspective, I talked about that earlier. | ||
| Um when this airs on Friday, um, I'm I was scheduled to be um on a stage with Charlie and Erica. | ||
| And um I don't know, they're still gonna have the event at a church in Tennessee. | ||
| I we don't know what that looks like. | ||
| I'm certainly changing um my message that I was going to have in my speech, and I was gonna be on a panel with the two of them. | ||
| Um, like I said, my kids are like, Mom don't, mom don't, and I got all emotional, not gonna do it now. | ||
|
unidentified
|
But like, look what they gave up. | |
| Look what he gave up. | ||
| Look what Erica gave up and is going to continue. | ||
| You know, she's gonna be front and center. | ||
| So I feel like um it's our duty because of this gift that we've been given They tried to kill Donald Trump and he was back out there the next day, right? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So what so what are we doing? | ||
| Yeah, we I I do believe we we have no choice, and maybe we just alter the way we do it. | ||
| I know certainly to be extra careful to try to lead with um empathy and kindness. | ||
| I I also um, you know, as we reflect here and always I think forever will with Charlie, the legacy, it's really endless. | ||
| Um, and one thing that I said to him the last time I saw him, it was in Scottsdale in May, and I was um just on stage with him, and it was at a church, and it's just a conversation back and forth. | ||
| I was so honored that he had asked me to come. | ||
| And I brought my daughter Quinn with me, who's my oldest, and she's 23, and she's the one for years, she's like, Mom, this Charlie Kirk guy, you know, and I and I said, guess what? | ||
| She had just graduated from college like two weeks before, and I'm like, you need to come with me. | ||
| I want you to meet him, I want you to shake his hand. | ||
| I'm so glad that I did that now. | ||
| And she is even the one that said, he changed this country. | ||
| Like he changed the election. | ||
| And it's something that I spoke about um a week ago on Wednesday, right after we got the news that he died. | ||
| It was on Fox News, take a look. | ||
| Charlie Kirk is one of the strongest, bravest people that I know. | ||
| He has on a personal level encouraged me so much to not be afraid to wear this cross, like I used to be. | ||
| Um he's taught me so much about God and faith and doing the right thing, even when it's hard. | ||
| Charlie Kirk changed is changing this country, certainly changed the election. | ||
| I looked at some of the numbers earlier, and the Democrats lost 20% of that vote, 18 to 29. | ||
| I've said from day one, it's because of Charlie Kirk. | ||
| I have three college-age kids, as you know, will, and Charlie Kirk is the reason why they began to care and dig a little deeper and try to understand what's going on in this country because he encouraged thought and then came with facts. | ||
| And unfortunately, It seems as if when people realize they're losing in many ways, they get desperate and they resort to violence and evil ways. | ||
| And that is what we are witnessing. | ||
| We witnessed July 13th last year with President Trump and Butler, and we're witnessing again today. | ||
| And I'm devastated and heartbroken for him, for Erica, uh, for his two beautiful children, and for this country that we've gotten to this point. | ||
| As you guys could see, um, the lower third there, that was when we didn't we thought he was still alive. | ||
| And the second I hung up from that Zoom with the Will Kane show is when the news broke. | ||
| Um I would love your thoughts um on the impact that you believe he had last November leading up to the election and and how that continues to carry out. | ||
| And I know it's speculation. | ||
| We're guessing we're maybe hoping that the impact continues. | ||
| Um, but I don't know that we fully comprehend how much he did to help Donald Trump get elected. | ||
| Oh, I I don't know that we comprehend it. | ||
| And I think as far as going forward, I think there's no way to comprehend it. | ||
| I think now, to your point earlier, there is there is such a renewal in this country that is going to be both spiritual and political and cultural and all of those things. | ||
| And of course there'll be the counter movements to all of that. | ||
| But I think he has he has woken something up amongst the people. | ||
| He really was one of the good ones, and maybe in some sense didn't get the credit, uh, like the day-to-day credit, like he wasn't as famous as Tucker per se or as Ben Shapiro or some of these other guys, but really was on the ground affecting young people more than anybody else. | ||
| And, you know, I used to do those college events with him. | ||
| And, you know, we'd have the bomb threats and the fire alarms pulled and people throw things at us and and all of the stuff. | ||
| Um, but he was never, never ever afraid. | ||
| And I'll just tell you one other thing, because I mentioned it on my show the other day, a little private thing about Charlie. | ||
| Charlie opened up for me at my uh last book tour in Arizona, and he was in crippling back pain. | ||
| People don't realize how tall Charlie was. | ||
| He was a great basketball player. | ||
| I just saw a sage. | ||
| Have you seen any of the video of him playing ball in high school? | ||
| Oh, he could shoot. | ||
| He really could shoot. | ||
| I'll try, I'll try to find it for you. | ||
| He was quite a player. | ||
| Uh, but he would Charlie was really tall. | ||
| I think he was probably about six five, maybe. | ||
| And and he had he had crippling back pain, as a lot of tall people do. | ||
| And the day of my book tour, he was supposed to open for me, and he called me in the morning. | ||
| He said, Dave, I don't know that I can get out of bed. | ||
| Like I'm really laid up right now. | ||
| He said, I will do everything I can, but but I just don't know if I can do it. | ||
| And we didn't know until showtime, and about five minutes before he showed up, he was literally laying on the floor in the green room because he couldn't sit in the in the on the sofa. | ||
| He goes up, gives a beautiful, beautiful, you know, 10-minute talk about our relationship and everything else. | ||
| And then uh, and then he says, Dave, I'd love to stay. | ||
| And people wanted him to stay, obviously, to say hi and chat and all that. | ||
| He said, But I I just can't, I'm in so much pain. | ||
| And he would not even take money. | ||
| He would not take money to do it. | ||
| He was in crippling pain, didn't have to show up and wouldn't take a dime to do it. | ||
| So that that's the Charlie I know, that's the Charlie that I hope will the spirit that I hope will continue to run throughout the country. | ||
| I feel like, you know, to the question of how effective was he politically, I think extremely. | ||
| And I don't feel like what you said, Dave, about that. | ||
| I didn't really think about that kind of thing. | ||
| I was just what I was aware of before was I thought of the thing of going to colleges as being like a kind of provocateur. | ||
| You know, you're going where all of the wokenness prevails and getting amongst it. | ||
| And I suppose because my background is more entertainment than politics, that's how I would frame that. | ||
| I'd say more like jackass than, you know, sort of William Buckley. | ||
| But but there was some element it of that evolved because when we did it at first, it was definitely more like flamethrower fight the woke over the top, we're gonna mock you guys, even though it was thoughtful too in the way we do things, but it was more of that. | ||
| It evolved into the thing that he turned it into, which was like the full-on debate situation. | ||
| Yeah, and he's sort of but I think that, you know, that is meeting people where they're at, and people were obviously convinced, and in a sense, well, as is this is somewhat more typical, is it takes someone's death to understand what their impact is. | ||
| I said to someone, well, like someone in Britain was asking about like who is Charlie Coe, we've never heard of him. | ||
| And I go, he's deaf, is it's I said it's like the death of Diana for the conservative right, that he somehow must of encapsulated something that wasn't entirely expressed because the outpouring of grief and subsequent reaction and even the derision indicates that in that atom, when it was split, the energy released shows you something, a truth that was not available previously. | ||
| That he was, I suppose, you know, we we're in a time of, as you say, renewal and revival, and much of that was packed in. | ||
| You don't even, if you think about it, I didn't think of him as being young. | ||
| I didn't think of Charlie Kirk as young. | ||
| He's like an old young person, in it. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Big long Nephilim, 31 year old. | ||
| Like when I first met him at that RNC, and like I've just become Christian, like a couple of months, I'm all bewildered. | ||
| And I was reading, like I'm writing the Bible in one year, and so I was in the book of Romans, and I like, and he was like, So why are you asking me about my Christianity? | ||
| And I'm like, yeah, I mean the book of Romans. | ||
| He's like, well, that's the Constitution. | ||
| That's the Christian Constitution. | ||
| And I was like, oh, like thought about that when I was reading it and stuff. | ||
| And so like it wasn't evident and obvious. | ||
| And think of it, ain't that long ago that South Park did that thing of making him like Cartman and stuff. | ||
| Like he was, it's what I suppose is that, you know, and you've copped for it there, Dave, that he was involved in the provocateur aspect of discourse and dialectic. | ||
| But the grief is um, you know, like sort of for a Christian and for a father. | ||
| Well, guys, uh, I have a feeling we could probably have just done a 24-hour live stream and sat here and and done this cathartic thing together endlessly. | ||
| We will continue to do it. | ||
| I actually have to jump because in a minute uh to continue with our spiritual theme. | ||
| Uh, next week is Russ Hashanah, which is the Jewish New Year, and I have Rabbi David Wolpe on. | ||
| We thought it would be good to have him on to talk about that, also to the backdrop of everything we've talked about here. | ||
| I thank you, my friends. |
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