Aug. 23, 2025 - Rubin Report - Dave Rubin
52:30
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| Speaker | Time | Text |
|---|---|---|
| Many people on the left, which is I care more than you, which is a specific narcissistic signal. | ||
| Everything that anyone chooses to do from a policy standpoint, if they disagree with that individual, you're going to kill people. | ||
| If you disagree with vaccines, you're going to kill people. | ||
| If you say, Hey, Medical needs to be refunded in some way, people are going to die. | ||
| So as always, it's a projection. | ||
| We did not anticipate the current situation. | ||
| We did not, we were not heading for this. | ||
| I've had medical students say to me, Why should I be memorizing things? | ||
| I was like, Look, you have to get it all in your head. | ||
| And they go, Well, why should I? | ||
| I just look it up anyway. | ||
| Pursuit of fame as an autonomous motivator appeared in the ninet 90s for the first time in human history. | ||
| When they went out and asked children, What do you want to do when you grow up?, as opposed to, I want to be a doctor, I want to be a dad, I want to be a mom, I want to be famous. | ||
| I did, I wasn't moving for fourth grader to be given sexual education, explicit sexual education courses. | ||
| That's insane. | ||
| That's absolutely nuts. | ||
| Porn addiction is out of control. | ||
| Sex addiction is just crazy. | ||
| Those who had access to explicit pornography on their phones when they were adolescents, it messes with their wiring. | ||
| There's a race now of young people that are going to chat GPT with all their problems. | ||
| They're talking about their parents, they're talking about their family, they're talking about their finances, their sexuality. | ||
| And there's no set standard as it relates to what these companies can do with the data. | ||
| Oh, damn. | ||
| We are in for trouble. | ||
|
unidentified
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We are in for trouble. | |
| All right, people, as this airs, you know that I am off the grid, I am disconnected, I have no electronics, no communication with the outside world, but we did not want to leave you, the viewer, without content. | ||
| Thus, as I tape this right now, it is the end of July and I am with my good friend and dare I say, internet sensation in this. | ||
| this second half of your career, my friend Drew Pinsky? | ||
| How are you? | ||
| I'm great, David Rubin. | ||
| Good to see you. | ||
| You are missed. | ||
| I miss you. | ||
| As we record this, obviously you're not gone, but I already miss you. | ||
| Yes. | ||
|
unidentified
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It's weird. | |
| You're having pre, it's not pre, it's sort of like pre crime. | ||
| You're having pre missed. | ||
| This is pre grief as is to persuasion is to persuasion. | ||
| So. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Well, unless something goes horribly wrong, I will return. | ||
| But if I don't, you can have the Rubin Report and all its assets and everything. | ||
| It's on the record. | ||
| Here we go. | ||
| Something might happen to you now. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| My lawyer is not in the room. | ||
| I can see if something does happen to you, they're coming to me first. | ||
| First up, I'm going very casual today because I'm preparing to go off the grid and you are dressed professionally like you are a doctor going to a meeting with other doctors to present some sort of new study. | ||
| No, no, no, no, no, it's close to that. | ||
| I'm literally running from our interview to another interview on homelessness where I need to present a more professional self. | ||
| I would have dressed exactly like you. | ||
| And I feel a little weird being dressed the way I am, but here we are. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Well, you are a doctor, you are a professional. | ||
| Before we dive into just, so we're just going to talk about some of this. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| We we've been in the same game now for a year. | ||
| Now for years, everyone knows our history. | ||
| You I think were the first television show that I ever even did when you were on HLN many years ago. | ||
| So weird. | ||
| But I thought first might be interesting because you deal with so many people with different addictions and conditions and neuroses, all these things. | ||
| This is my ninth year going off the grid and partly when I did it for the first time years ago, it was just because I was just getting that internet headache, that thing that we're all obsessed with. | ||
| the endless scrolling that you feel like your attention span is fraying and I was just like, let me just try it. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And needless to say, I loved it. | ||
| I think it's one of the things that has allowed me to stay sane in this political world where so many people seemingly have gone off the deep end. | ||
| What do you make of our relationship with the devices and what do you think of digital detox generally speaking and all that? | ||
| Well, I mean, there's a lot packed into what you said. | ||
| I would not exclusively blame screens for how you were feeling, right? | ||
| I mean, I mean, when when people have a busy schedule, they need to take breaks. | ||
| You just do. | ||
| You cannot do so. | ||
| I was a profound workaholic early in my career and I could only manage sort of three day breaks and I would take two days to wind down and then to spend the next day having dread. | ||
| So I was like not a vacation, but then I had to return. | ||
| But we we do need to do that. | ||
| But we have this added problem of screens. | ||
| And so I'm guessing you're saying that not only do you take a break from work, you also take a break from anything online, which is very This is literally going into the safe. | ||
| I mean, I'm not going to watch the news, nothing for a month. | ||
| Everybody reports improvement in sense of well being. | ||
| It's just a universal thing. | ||
| And of course, I think we are all becoming more and more familiar with the adverse impact on kids and adolescents. | ||
| I mean, it's just inescapable. | ||
| My friends who are psychologists, that particularly those work with adolescents, they do not allow their kids access to screens maybe an hour or two a day supervised structured academic pursuits, that sort of thing. | ||
| Maybe some socialization here and there, but highly limited exposure. | ||
| Now the real problem is, you know, in schools someone's going to go, hey, look at this, you know, so the schools also have to take a no screen policy and some do or you got a home school. | ||
| So God knows a lot of people are heading that way these days. | ||
| But yeah, you're absolutely right. | ||
| It is something that is important, is a good idea and it's healthy and you're modeling healthy behavior. | ||
| So good for you more so than me. | ||
| Do you think what was the., what was the show you did with famous people in the house? | ||
| Celebrity Rehab. | ||
| We had a couple of incarnations. | ||
| We had Celebrity Rehab. | ||
| Celebrity Rehab. | ||
|
unidentified
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Yeah. | |
| We had Sober House, which was the follow on treatments in a sober living. | ||
| And then we had Sex Addiction too. | ||
| We did a sex addiction treatment. | ||
| It was very interesting. | ||
| So, when you've done those shows, but particularly celebrity related, like, do you think there's some element, you know, I'm in the public eye. | ||
| There's an element of ego that is being, you know, stroked specifically. | ||
| I go out, people, you know, have been out with you. | ||
| People know who we are. | ||
| They say nice things. | ||
| They buy you a drink. | ||
| They want to, you know, they talk to you about this, about the other thing. | ||
| That in some way there's like a particularly unique case. | ||
| It used to be, oh, you'd be addicted to a substance or you'd be addicted to a particular behavior or something else, where publicity or I don't know, fame, whatever the hell you want to call it, is like a differently insidious thing in some sense. | ||
| And that is also partly why I disappear so that I can be completely away from that. | ||
| Just be honest. | ||
| And my version of it is very small relative to some people. | ||
| Well, this is a complex topic. | ||
| I actually have published research on this topic, wrote a book about it. | ||
| This book was called Mirror Effect. | ||
| And let me break this down in two ways to start with. | ||
| One is what I have noticed treating people who have a public life, there's a gigantic difference between someone who has had a day job and whose day job has been being famous. | ||
| Those are two different populations. | ||
| Yeah, I think that's a very important distinction. | ||
| Oh my God, and people who are performers or actors who have been famous, they who never had a day job, horrible. | ||
| I would not want to go through a life like that. | ||
| They take everything. | ||
| This is all, this is their existence. | ||
| This is serious business. | ||
| If you've had a day job, you're like, grateful for it. | ||
| It's fun. | ||
| Glad I have it. | ||
| But this is not real. | ||
| This is not a real thing. | ||
| It's an instrument. | ||
| It's a way of doing things. | ||
| It's a way of reaching people. | ||
| Now there's a feature in this, I think you'd relate to this of sort of performing, like, like, I bet you like public speaking, right? | ||
|
unidentified
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Of course. | |
| Yeah. | ||
| And so public speaking for me is, that's my sweet spot. | ||
| I love public speaking, and this sort of scratches that itch too. | ||
| And public speaking is a really interesting sort of coalition. | ||
| You know, it's coalescing of a performance instinct with a communication instinct with an intellectual pursuit where you're trying to, I mean, I just think about Jordan Peterson as the ultimate sort of representation of having captured all that.. | ||
| And also people who tend to pursue these things often have got some childhood injury and this is supposed to solve a problem. | ||
| And of course, it doesn't. | ||
| It doesn't solve any problems. | ||
| And if you expect it to, that's a problem. | ||
| The other thing is pursuit of fame as an autonomous motivator showed up in the 90s for the first time in human history when they went out and asked internationally kids, what do you want to do when you grow up? | ||
| This is before the social media and the influencer thing too. | ||
| And that was all just getting rolling. | ||
| As opposed to I want to be a doctor. | ||
| I want to be a dad. | ||
| I want to be a mom. | ||
| I want to be famous. | ||
| That was never something that was in the in the 90s. | ||
| And why do you think that started in the 90s? | ||
| I mean, we had TV before that. | ||
| We had famous musicians. | ||
| We had famous actors, comedians, blah, blah, blah. | ||
| I don't because somehow it was becoming democratized and everyone felt they had, you know, a right to it. | ||
| I think there was also a massive shift. | ||
| This is a big topic we're about to get into, a massive shift towards narcissism. | ||
| And I actually interviewed a physicist psychologist a couple of days ago, a couple of weeks ago, who was saying, we've now moved actually from we were in, he frames it as this. | ||
| We were in a schizoid position for many years when hallucinations and hearing voices and encounters with God were not considered pathological. | ||
| They were normal. | ||
| Uh, and then we as the individual became paramount and sacrosanct, we moved towards narcissism and then all these media outlets really reinforced all that. | ||
| And we've now, in his opinion, we've actually moved now into borderline process. | ||
| And I think that's true. | ||
| I think the hysteria has now captured, uh, you know, Trump derangement syndrome is a hysteria. | ||
| And you notice how people exaggerate and project. | ||
| I was thinking this morning, I'm a little off topic here, but I wanted to bring this up with you that I noticed the left does something. | ||
| I just noticed it this morning. | ||
| Everything that anyone chooses to do from a policy standpoint, if they disagree with that individual., you're going to kill people. | ||
| People are going to die. | ||
| Everybody's going to die. | ||
| If you disagree with masks, you're going to kill people. | ||
| If you disagree with vaccines, you're going to kill people. | ||
| If you say, hey, Medicare needs to be refunded in some way, people are going to die. | ||
| Look, literally, if you defund NPR, you're going to kill people because there won't be enough weather people reporting on, yeah, because that is the only way to get weather. | ||
| I mean, that's hysteria and it is disgusting and we should be repelled by it. | ||
| Let me just, Medicare is the one that has the greatest sort of traction to it. | ||
| And let me assure you, this is something that no one ever talks about as a physician. | ||
| No one, and I mean no one in the United States of Americaica is refused health care if they need it under any circumstances. | ||
| Who eats it is all that's in question here. | ||
| Usually it's the doctors and the county when Medicare doesn't cover it. | ||
| So the counties and the physicians are going to eat this and the LA county's going to speak up about it. | ||
| I've lived through this before. | ||
| I've lived to my David, I'm a time traveler, man. | ||
| I have I've come from a bygone era and I've traveled through time and I've seen these freaking good ideas, bad ideas come and go and come and go. | ||
| And right now, all the bad ideas are on the table for some reason. | ||
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| That is connected to where we started here, that we are hit, the mechanism to deliver the bad ideas has been weaponized. | ||
| Not only weaponized algorithmically, but our, but in some way, as I always say, that it's like the algorithms seem to know us more than we know ourselves. | ||
| We can all say, Oh, we like good news all the time. | ||
| If someone just did the good news show, I'd do it. | ||
| But they've tried and it always fails. | ||
| I mean, I try to do as a positive spin and a silly, the way I present things is usually sillier and more ridiculous. | ||
| A piece of advice. | ||
| We know what it is. | ||
| You need to go back to the South Park clips, by the way. | ||
| They've gone. | ||
| They've gone wild. | ||
| I love those guys. | ||
| They are brutal right now. | ||
| So it's going to be weird. | ||
| Bear fruit. | ||
| I know you love those clips when I react to the South Park, South Park stuff. | ||
| We literally shot a few of them before we jumped on with you that will be released in August. | ||
| I can't wait. | ||
| Stay tuned. | ||
| Including Donald Trump's penis, which spoke. | ||
| It's very disturbing. | ||
| It's very disturbing, but they are equal opportunity brutality. | ||
| They get everybody. | ||
| They don't leave anyone out of their line of fire. | ||
| So what would you as a doctor, I mean, if you if someone came to you and said, well, I guess you could do a couple of versions of this. | ||
| Let's say someone brings their 15-year-old kid who's, who's crushed under the weight of all the incoming fire of tantal culture and just the general situation state of craziness. | ||
| They're inundated with images and all the stuff. | ||
|
unidentified
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Yeah. | |
| Then someone comes to you now they're middle aged, uh, and then someone comes to you in older age. | ||
| Do you have to operate with these people differently to get them out of some of the ways we are it with information? | ||
| They, yes, and the pathologies tend to sort of be a little different, right? | ||
| With the young person, it's identity and self esteem and, you know, who they are to their peers, it's everything. | ||
| And you can imagine they can't escape it. | ||
| So you got to get them, you got to help them build a sense of self and ability to regulate their emotions without the constant connection with the texting and the peers and all this stuff. | ||
| But it's tough. | ||
| It's tough. | ||
| Whatever you do about the physical side of that because that's also been put on steroids. | ||
| Everyone is filtered and photoshopped. | ||
| And, you know, so every 15-year-old girl is comparing herself and guys comparing themselves to things that don't exist. | ||
| Correct. | ||
| And I think limit exposure, obviously, because even anybody can just be distorted by that, right? | ||
| I mean, any human being. | ||
| But I have the sense that the What are we calling after Gen Z? | ||
| Alpha now? | ||
| I don't even know what we're calling. | ||
| They're alpha. | ||
| Yeah, alpha kind of gets it. | ||
| They know it's bad for them. | ||
| And they know it's bullshit. | ||
| And so they they're a kind of a discerning group, but still you have to help them. | ||
| You have to limit, limit, limit the access. | ||
| But you know, the older guy, older folks. | ||
| So older folks are being swept into hysteria and ending up outside the Tesla dealerships, right? | ||
| Not good. | ||
| I would urge them to expose themselves to different kinds of information and to think about things. | ||
| And then the young adults, sort of the middle, you know, thirty something, forty something, porn addiction is out of control. | ||
| Sex addiction is just crazy. | ||
| Wait, sorry, which I was scribbling something down. | ||
| So I was 340, 40, 30, 40-year-olds, the ones that had access to explicit pornography on their phones when they were adolescents, it messes with their wiring. | ||
| So okay, so let's hit all of those. | ||
| So first on the on the older one, when we see these people, you know, it's usually it was older people that were outside Tesla screaming or they have Trump derangement syndrome or something. | ||
| In some ways, when we've played videos, and it's usually females. | ||
| When we've played videos of them, I'm somewhat sympathetic to them because although I think they're wrong about what's happening, I'm sympathetic that they're watching the boomer world disappear. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| And then they see all this stuff that they never saw before because of the internet. | ||
| And then it offers their brain this bizarre sense of everything's falling apart. | ||
| And I'm somewhat sympathetic to that, that when you and I are their age one day, the world might be so cataclysmically different that maybe we'll be crazy because we'll think that all the good stuff that we had was flitting away. | ||
| That peace I will grant you, but Adam Kroll and I talk about this a lot and he sees all these people as his mom. | ||
| So they were essentially the narcissistic hippies of the 60s. | ||
| And they were, remember, they were casting off the yokeoke of a generation that made no sense to them, and legitimately so. | ||
| None of us anticipated this. | ||
| This we did, like, I look, I created Loveland, right? | ||
| I was involved in the creation of Loveland. | ||
| And that was to alert young people about the biological consequences of, really, the sexual revolution, which was perpetrated by adults. | ||
| Nobody contemplated what it would do to adolescents and young adults. | ||
| They were getting STDs, they were getting pregnant. | ||
| They were, they were being acted out on sexually by people who took the position that they're just young adults, whatever, no big deal. | ||
| They're into whatever they're into. | ||
| It was a horrible time. | ||
| And now we have this thing, HIV. | ||
| We at the time when I started, we were calling it grids and then we called it AIDS and then we had HTLV 3, remember that? | ||
| And then we had HIV. | ||
| And all through that, I was like, you got to know about this. | ||
| It is coming. | ||
| And so that biological reality was all I was really talking about. | ||
| We ended up, as years went on, talking about the consequences of childhood trauma on many of their interpersonal choices. | ||
| We did not anticipate the current situation. | ||
| We did not, we were not heading for this. | ||
| I did. | ||
| I was not moving for fourth grader to be given sexual education explicit sexual education courses. | ||
| That is insane. | ||
| That's absolutely nuts. | ||
| Their brain is not, it's not wireed for that. | ||
| It can't. | ||
| manage it. | ||
| Okay, but back to the old people And like Adam's mom, they were very narcissistic. | ||
| They were the first narcissists. | ||
| And they did it in the name of caring and being so concerned and, you know, concerned for the environment. | ||
| And it really, but what you look, we look at what they did over the years, they never actually did anything for anybody, including parenting. | ||
| They just were caring. | ||
| And that has become a crucible now. | ||
| That has become the sort of organizing idea of many people on the left, which is I care more than you, which is a specific narcissistic signal. | ||
| If you care more than somebody, how about you pay more than you pay? | ||
| more to the people that work at your house? | ||
|
unidentified
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Much more. | |
| Right. | ||
| You can have empathy, but it can't be the top of the hierarchy. | ||
| Toxic empathy. | ||
| There's something called toxic empathy. | ||
| And the toxic empathy, empathy entirely, it, by the way, is polluted by narcissism and they're sort of getting past that by this virtue thing. | ||
| You know, narcissists have two big signaling needs. | ||
| I exist and I'm better than you. | ||
| And I care more than you is now the way that they're doing that, which again, and part of that caring is you're going to kill people. | ||
| I care more. | ||
| You're going to kill. | ||
| And it's all a projection. | ||
| And by the way, if you looked at some of the policies of the vaccines, of the vaccines, of the school shutdown, they killed people. | ||
| So as always, it's a projection. | ||
| It's a projection. | ||
| So when you see someone in that group that we're talking about, that let's say plus they're really plus seventy now, but they're activists and they are out there, I mean, do you think that for the most part, there's really no way to deprogram them at that point? | ||
| Oh, yeah. | ||
| Obviously, obviously not completely, but. | ||
| Yeah, no, no, no, no. | ||
| And it's you, you can't. | ||
| It again, if you're dealing with someone like that, it's a lot of questioning. | ||
| I wonder what this is about. | ||
| I wonder what that is. | ||
| I wonder why Elon Musk would spend his time trying to help out. | ||
| I wonder, you know, wonder, wonder, wonder. | ||
| And just get them thinking and then expose them to different ideas as much as you can. | ||
| But, but there's a, you know, there's all this theory about, um, you know, people's cognitive biases that when you convince them in one area, sometimes they double down in another in the sort of same category. | ||
| So it's, it's, it's to some extent, you and you can't really use intellect. | ||
| You can't use argument because they will shape shift right in front of you. | ||
| They'll morph into something where they, you know, they change the topic and literally. | ||
| So okay, so that's that version. | ||
| Then you talked about the thirties to forties. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So that's really, I think you're talking a little bit bit more about Gen Y in some sense, and they were the first ones that grew up where porn was basically everywhere. | ||
| Did you see we covered it on my show today? | ||
| It's obviously weeks ago by the time we aired this. | ||
| Sorry, what's her name? | ||
| Julia Sweeney is it? | ||
| No, that was an actor on SNL. | ||
|
unidentified
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What? | |
| Sydney Sweeney, not Julia Sweeney. | ||
| That would be very different. | ||
| But did you see this ad campaign with her in American Eagle? | ||
| You know, she's this very young, pretty girl and they're promoting jeans, but they're clearly showing her cleavage and her pants are unbuttoned and all this stuff. | ||
| And I was thinking when I was watching, and there's obviously a certain set of people on the left are outraged because she's white and blonde and too pretty and blah, blah, blah. | ||
| And then another set of people are like, oh, this is great. | ||
| It's great, it's sexual and it's like, you know, whatever. | ||
| What I kept thinking was there's something good about the course correction right now because sex has become so privatized, I think, because of porn. | ||
| If you look at all the ads of the last, like, ten years, there was nothing sexual about it. | ||
| There was nothing sexual on TV, sexy. | ||
| I don't mean, I don't mean over the top or body. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| But we sort of compartmentalize sexuality to, I suppose, to the generation that you're talking about. | ||
| Am I ballparking something? | ||
| Yes, I think you're on something here. | ||
| And so not only that, but the sexual, if you had to, you have desire to see a sexual image, you're not already burned out by what you've seen on pornography. | ||
| It's like so much more than that. | ||
| I mean, the advertiser tells you about the current moment. | ||
| More so than the documentaries or the television productions. | ||
| Really watch television ads. | ||
| Adam, again, back to Adam, it really schooled me on this one. | ||
| You really learn a lot. | ||
| And right now, we've got those kinds of ads coming in, which suggest, I think, that's the alpha coming in. | ||
| And we also see, and you see Volvo ads where a guy is writing a letter to his daughter crying outside a lighthouse. | ||
| And you see the truck ads voiced by Dana White. | ||
| So we're getting into this weird dichotomy And Adam calls it safe spaces and octagons. | ||
| And I said, Adam, we're literally going to have an octagon at the White House. | ||
| You predicted it. | ||
| It's literally going to happen. | ||
| It's coming. | ||
| It is coming next year for the 250 he's bringing Dana White it. | ||
| Right. | ||
| So basically that you had everything because porn was so accessible, people could get all the sexual stuff out sort of privately. | ||
| And then there was nothing. | ||
| It's not that public needs sex per se, but then the only way we expressed it publicly was people in furry hats or dog masks or something. | ||
| So it was like you had to be ridiculous in some sense versus just, I don't know, a girl showing her dekolt to sell an ad kind of works for everyone. | ||
| And we went through a phase where, you know, ideology took over everything about and superseded everything about human motivation. | ||
| So what happened? | ||
| This is beautiful. | ||
| That's beautiful. | ||
| We're calling it beautiful because we said so. | ||
| It didn't sell Jaguars. | ||
| It didn't sell them. | ||
| And Sidney Sweeney will sell some jeans. | ||
| She will. | ||
| It's just the way humans work. | ||
| I'm not saying we should exploit her sexuality. | ||
| I'm not saying we should be sort of get more of a celebration of all aspects of humanity and the fact that we do, we are sexual beings. | ||
| We do like these things. | ||
| It's okay. | ||
| And we can like other things too. | ||
| It's all right. | ||
| Right. | ||
| That's the key point. | ||
| It makes more sense to celebrate a pretty girl showing off her boobs for a shirt than it does to have, let's say, an obese woman in a Nike outfit where that makes no sense to the brand and that's what they push on us. | ||
| So we hit those two groups. | ||
| Let's go back to the first group. | ||
| So the the 15-year-olds that are struggling with all this identity stuff, as you said, and you know, trying to match their way to the world to what the internet is showing them. | ||
| What is what do you think they will be like when they hit adulthood? | ||
| So now they're in their twenty, thirty, forty. | ||
| What do you think the effect of that? | ||
| the effects of them growing up in that distorted funhouse meme. | ||
| So I'll tell you in a second, but let me just finish the middle age and the porn thing. | ||
| The sex addiction is a real thing. | ||
| Don't think otherwise. | ||
| People get they're the meeting rooms are full. | ||
| Everyone's going on Zoom. | ||
| Do twelve step, do Zoom meetings. | ||
| Sex addiction is consuming and has consequences like any other addiction. | ||
| Please get help for that if you're suffering with that or struggling with that. | ||
| Back to the young people. | ||
| biggest, biggest thing is the, I think, going to be the constriction of emotion and constriction of, let's call it intellectual curiosity, that everything is just on the phone. | ||
| I've had medical students say to me, and this was disturbing to me, just recently heard this, why should I be memorizing things? | ||
| I was like, look, you've got to get it all in your head. | ||
| It's got to get there so you can use it. | ||
| It's like using a language or something. | ||
| And they go, well, why should I? | ||
| I just look it up anyway. | ||
| I thought, oh, damn, we are in for transformation. | ||
| trouble they're much like it's very different to listen to a language and understand it it's different when you produce the language it's a different brain mechanism. | ||
| And the same thing is true of our knowledge and intellect. | ||
| You have to use it and produce it has to be sort of in you. | ||
| And that requires reading and study and experiential learning, not this. | ||
| This can be, this is not all bad, right? | ||
| I mean, I'm right, I use Grock 10 times a day, but I'm using it to sort of guide my intellectual pursuits, not to substitute for them. | ||
| And then the same thing is true of their relationships. | ||
| Humans need bodies in space. | ||
| That's how we build our sense of ourselves. | ||
| That's how we construct our emotional landscape, how we regulate the landscape. | ||
| To some extent, we could do it through screens like you and I are doing it, but it is only really because we already have a relationship that we can do it effectively. | ||
| It requires the bodies communicate in ways that are ineffable and don't get necessarily or fully transmitted through the screen. | ||
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| I got one that I think you can use. | ||
| I think you're going to like it enough to use it in the future. | ||
| You don't even have to credit me, but basically this thing is the tool to help you build a house, but it's not the architectural plan. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And that, and that in essence is what everyone's being hung up on. | ||
| Did you see in the last couple of days, and again, we're holding this for a little bit, but there's been a lot of talk about how ChatGPT doesn't have privacy standards yet. | ||
| So there's a rash now of young people that are going to ChatGPT with all their problems, and it remembers their problems. | ||
| They're talking about their parents, they're talking about their family, they're talking about their finances, their sexuality, blah, blah, blah, blah, and there's no set standard as it relates to what these companies can do with the data. | ||
| I mean, that is a Pandora's box that seems completely like the idea of closing that Pandora's box is insane. | ||
| Yeah, that that you can thereby when you know all your deepest, darkest sort of sort of thoughts and motivators, imagine how you can be manipulated. | ||
| I mean, it's a scary thing. | ||
| It's a scary thought. | ||
| I do believe that humans, what tends to happen with technology is the humans get taken advantage of by it first. | ||
| And then a new generation comes in and goes, I see what this is. | ||
| I'm not going to fall for it. | ||
| I understand how to use it. | ||
| So there is damage done, but it usually gets adapted to by younger people. | ||
| They usually figure out how to deal with it. | ||
| Do you think that's a fundamental? | ||
| I discussed this with Roseanne Barr, a ball people, a couple of weeks ago on actual friends. | ||
| And she basically said it in her kind of crazy over the top way. | ||
| But I thought it was so good that humans do have a course correction thing built into them that the generations do. | ||
| It is a fundamental piece of the like architecture of humanity that we have this way that. | ||
| every time everything goes too far and that doesn't mean awfully many people are not going to pay or die or whatever, but just when we're about to tilt off into the abyss, the next generation does have some way of doing something. | ||
| And that's a fundamental truth. | ||
| It's in the Scriptures, man. | ||
| I mean, Sodom and Gomorrah was a warning about that, you know, one of those evolutions into trouble and people were recoiled against it because they see what happens. | ||
| It's not something, this is the problem with ideology. | ||
| Throughout human history, ideology is what hurts people. | ||
| That's it. | ||
| Doing ill in the name of good. | ||
| That is how humans hurt each other. | ||
| And it's what we're, we're into right now. | ||
| We are in, been in denial about the basics of how humans work. | ||
| And that is a very destructive. | ||
| I think we're moving back slowly, but we are moving back. | ||
| And it is gravely concerning when humans get into that mode. | ||
| And yes, we will, it's because young, I've always said this again, going back to the loveline thing, young people are exquisitely sensitive to case studies, right? | ||
| They, they, if they see something happen to their peers, they get it. | ||
| They get it right away. | ||
| And then they course correct. | ||
| But they don't want to hear about it from adults, right? | ||
| They don't want you to tell me about it. | ||
| I could learn it if I drew in a box telling me about it, but I won't course correct until I see it happening. | ||
| And so that experiential phenomenon, I think, is what is at the core of the course correction. | ||
| Are you saying that the road to hell is paved with good intentions? | ||
| I think I just came up with that phrase. | ||
| Wow, that's an incredible phrase. | ||
| I bet people will use that. | ||
| It's worse than that, but it's worse than that though. | ||
| I mean, that seems like a that seems empty compared to what really happens. | ||
| To me, the scariest words in the English language are on the order of, well, now we figured it out. | ||
| Now we know what. | ||
| Now we know what human. | ||
| We know it's the same thing in economics when you say this time it will be different. | ||
| It's never different and you never figure it out because we figured it out three thousand years ago. | ||
| And it's just we need to get better at it, not figure it out again. | ||
| Are you worried to the backdrop of all the stuff that we've talked about a billion times related to COVID and the institutions failing us and all of those things that the fundamental things that you care about in your career, I mean, helping people not be addicted to things and getting their lives in order and things of that nature, that people will be less willing to hear the correct analyses because people will just not trust anyone at some point. | ||
| That's been going on for a long time already. | ||
| That we've had such a tough time getting young addicts into any kind of twelve step process because I don't relate to it. | ||
| It's not my thing. | ||
| We're special. | ||
| We're different, whatever. | ||
| And yes, that is gravely concerning. | ||
| I've seen a lot of it's interesting. | ||
| I've seen a lot of scorn and concern about exactly that issue from people who created the lack of trust during COVID. | ||
| Right, right, right, right. | ||
| And it's like, yes, that is a problem. | ||
| But ultimately, what, again, back to thinking you figured it out. | ||
| What really was missing was the. | ||
| centralization of authority in healthcare. | ||
| That is how bad things happen. | ||
| You got to get people back under the care of their doctor, under the care of a healthcare system they trust and they can communicate with, and not things from on high, mandates from on high. | ||
| I mean, it's never been intended to be that way, ever. | ||
| Do you think there are some psychological conditions that actually are kind of impervious to therapy? | ||
| The reason I'm asking you this is I'm on, as of tonight, I'll be watching the final episode of The Sopranos. | ||
| It's my third go round. | ||
| Did you watch it? | ||
| Yeah, I've no spot. | ||
| I've never watched it through and through. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Okay. | |
| So, but you know obviously about the Soprano Mafia family and that he's in therapy. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| And one of the interesting things, I'm not blowing this because the show came out twenty years ago, but one of the interesting things is in the second to last episode, there's been a through line that Dr. Melfi, his therapist, has been struggling over the course of the years, trying to figure out, is she actually helping him at all? | ||
| Or is she actually by allowing him to talk, is she in some ways emboldening the lies and where he can compartmentalize his life? | ||
| And then her therapist, because she also goes to a therapist, basically presents her with a study about a certain personality disorder and says, This is what you've got on your hands. | ||
| And she breaks it off with him in the second to last episode. | ||
| It's it's really incredible television. | ||
| And I'm wondering if you've ever encountered any of that sort of thing where you suddenly, not necessarily in your private practice, where you suddenly just say, There's nothing that actually can be done here, at least within my skill set. | ||
| 100%. | ||
| It's not uncommon. | ||
| You'll be surprised. | ||
| And there's a there's a sort of a subset of it that I deal with more than not, which is not ready. | ||
| These people to change, much like addicts, they're everything. | ||
| They have to be threatened with survival, frankly, before they're willing to change. | ||
| And that's, that's true of what you're calling personality disorders. | ||
| And there is, you know, sociopathy, and which is what we're talking about here with Tony Soprano, and as social becomes criminal at a certain point. | ||
| And the only way to solve that is with constraint, with some sort of external force, because they just won't trust. | ||
| They won't enter the frame. | ||
| They won't change. | ||
| They see everything as the problem, not them. | ||
| And anyone trying to help them is sort of full of shit. | ||
| So why would they, why would they listen to them? | ||
| And it's funny. | ||
| I had a patient of mine who was very much in that zone. | ||
| It was a woman and she started with it was funny. | ||
| She started with I had someone in the room with me. | ||
| We were working with her. | ||
| And she started with sort of an open position. | ||
| And then she put her hands over her head like this, which is a position that primates make when they're when they're acknowledging a superior position and an openness to the other person. | ||
| And then she went from that. | ||
| And I thought, oh my God, we're making progress to this. | ||
| And then just this. | ||
| It was just, I thought, wow, that's the full evolution of criminal thought right there. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Wow. | |
| So you think what was going on in her head. | ||
| Actually, she was acting out in some sense all of those. | ||
| Those were body language manifestations of I'm listening to you. | ||
| Oh, you're making sense. | ||
| Wow, I like you. | ||
| I know you. | ||
| I trust you. | ||
| I'm open. | ||
| And but, but it's sort of, it's sort of like a, like an alpha male talking to an alpha male will if one is listening to the other, the chimpanzees do it. | ||
| You'll see it. | ||
| It's crazy. | ||
| And then when they've had enough, it just closes up. | ||
| That's it. | ||
| Back to it's all BS. | ||
| Why am I bothering? | ||
| So, but but what's that like when you've been in practice dealing with someone that where you get to the end of the road with them and you don't get the, you know, I'm sure there have been moments where you get to the end of the road and you go, boy, I've set this person up properly in life. | ||
| So, but to go the other way, I mean, man, I don't, I don't do a lot of that kind of work. | ||
| I do teamwork with drug addicts, but I will tell you how that works in a second. | ||
| But, but I would try to get that person to somebody who specializes in personality disorders. | ||
| There is such a thing. | ||
| And I, I, she did, by the way. | ||
| I was trying, right. | ||
| And I was listening to a podcast recently where a guy, one of these therapists, a psychiatrist was in there and he said, you know, this, this severe narcissist was in there and he was telling me this horrible story of abuse in his childhood. | ||
| And he goes, I don't normally evoke emotion in the interpersonal context of therapy, but I started to cry and the narcissist went, why are you mocking me? | ||
| So that's how much they disturort the outside world. | ||
| You see how that works. | ||
| The addict, they become disruptive. | ||
| I give them three strikes, they're out. | ||
| You know, that's that. | ||
| And I can't tell you there have been many, many, many times that the person I kicked out of treatment and sometimes they surprise me. | ||
| If you offer drugs to someone else, you're out immediately. | ||
| If you have sex with someone else, you're out immediately. | ||
| But if you use drugs yourself, I actually give them chances. | ||
| I give them other chances. | ||
| But if you hurt someone else, you're out. | ||
| I can't tell you how many times people come up to me three, five years later. | ||
| I don't even recognize them. | ||
| They're so different. | ||
| They come up and shake my hand. | ||
| They go, I'm in a PhD program for psychology now. | ||
| I wasn't ready to hear what you were saying at the time, but you setting that limit with me and spitting me out is something that helped build my motivation where I finally got better. | ||
| What feels more rewarding to you? | ||
| Is it those when you had the intimacy of the clinical practice and they're coming in meeting with you all the time, or is it that you can do this at scale now and someone you've never met will come up to you at the airport or whatever and say, Boy Drew, I did listen to Love Lines way back when and I had some weird stuff going on and I you helped me sort it out. | ||
| You know, I've always been doing them both side by side the whole time. | ||
| So they're just different to me. | ||
| I mean, I'm trying to figure out. | ||
| We have a sick society on our hands essentially, and I'm trying to figure out how we can use cases again to help kind of move that in the right direction. | ||
| That's been the well, and we're sick, we're still sick, man. | ||
| We are still I kind of feel like we're getting better or something. | ||
| If we can get back to families, boy, if we can get families healthy again and empower families and do good child rearing, it'll come back fast. | ||
| So I do think we are on the comeback right now. | ||
| I feel it very strongly actually. | ||
| I think a lot of it's hard to see because of the algorithms and because of our conditioning to negativity or what people click. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| But it does seem to me that more and more people suddenlyly care about family or care about what they're putting in their body or are a little skeptical about COVID and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. | ||
| I mean, even your very public evolution as it pertains to trusting some of the institutions. | ||
| I mean, it's pretty, it's powerful stuff, which is why every time we've talked about it, it goes viral. | ||
| It's, it's stark. | ||
| I went from saying at the beginning of the pandemic, first of all, I was, I thought the press was causing the panic. | ||
| I didn't realize it was coming from our government, other sources. | ||
| And I was like, don't listen to these people. | ||
| Listen to the CDC and Dr. Fauci. | ||
| I've worked with these people for years. | ||
| They will get us through this. | ||
| And man, I was wrong. | ||
| Holy moly. | ||
| I didn't know what had happened to those organizations. | ||
| And I went from that to, wow, these organizations that were advisory to physicians to help us make good decisions are now trying to usurp our they're trying to tell us how to practice medicine that is insane. | ||
| And as that became more and more clear to me how insurance companies and hospital employers and regulators were taking over medicine, I became a freedom fighter. | ||
| And then when my speech started getting constricted, that's just unimaginable to me in this country. | ||
| This country, the First Amendment, the very first principle of the Bill of Rights is being infringed upon and people are questioning whether we should have less freedom of speech. | ||
| Holy crap. | ||
| I can't believe we're there, but it's been my evolution and there's been lots of other little sidebars to it, but yeah, I am fully there. | ||
| We have to fight for these things. | ||
| I didn't, you know, Tom Sizemore once told me, he, Tom, I love Tom and I had known him for many, many years. | ||
| And he said he was preparing, I think he was preparing for Black Hawk Down. | ||
| And he went and he lived with a, said a colonel in the Air Force or something. | ||
| And the guy came to the door and went, all right, you can hang around here, but I'm busy fighting for freedom in this world. | ||
| I'd fight for the freedom of this country and that's a full-time job. | ||
| And we both were like, ha ha ha, this guy fight for freedom. | ||
| I think about that guy all the time now. | ||
| Thank God that guy was there fighting for freedom and the guys like him. | ||
| And now it's got to be all of us, all of us. | ||
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| Why do you think some people are wired in a way or conditioned in a way or maybe it's just innate that they are able to do the mea culpa, able to do what you did say, boy, I miss that and some people can. | ||
| I was watching a video just a couple days ago of Nancy Pelosi being asked, Do you have any regrets around the election and the Biden and Kamala stuff and the way things went down or anything? | ||
|
unidentified
|
And she had no regrets, no regrets. | |
| That is completely insane to me. | ||
| What you just said, which is very dear to your heart and career, is that you made a mistake. | ||
| I mean, do you think that that's conditioning? | ||
| Is that how we're wire that some people can do it and some people can't? | ||
| Is that just humility that you're supposed to learn along the way? | ||
| It's a great question. | ||
| There's probably lots of different answers to it. | ||
| I think maybe politicians are sort of geared up for that. | ||
| They sort of learned that they have to do it that way. | ||
| Maybe she wasn't the best example, but pretend I gave you a nonpolitical example. | ||
| Someone who can apologize. | ||
| Yeah, I'm making apology a habit right now. | ||
| Wherever I find something that I needed that I did wrong or needed to change course. | ||
| I'm on the record. | ||
| I'm apologizing. | ||
| I got Jenny McCarthy in here last week for my streaming show. | ||
| By the way, my wife will kill us both if we don't mention it. | ||
| It's Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday on Rumble at Ask Dr. Drew 2 o'clock Pacific time. | ||
| Also YouTube, wherever else. | ||
| I brought her in here to apologize to her. | ||
| I said, Jenny, you've been a friend for a long time. | ||
| I've always admired you and she's an extremely bright woman. | ||
| I don't know if anybody as many people know that as I do. | ||
| I've known her since the 90s and I said, I have been less than supportive of your vaccine concerns and that is I apologize. | ||
| That is wrong. | ||
| I should have just I should have just I should have listened to you and we should address these things in a systematic way. | ||
| And it's sexist because I didn't think about what it meant to you as a mom. | ||
| And that was powerful for me. | ||
| I just I need to I don't know why I can I I find it such a powerful thing to apologize. | ||
| I I think if you're a narcissist, it must be really hard and must feel threatening that your very being is being because they're so close to shame all the time with narcissists. | ||
| And I get it. | ||
| Shame is not a great feeling. | ||
| And I and I'm exposed to shame too. | ||
| I don't like it. | ||
| It's not good. | ||
| But you gotta have humility., faith, forgiveness, these are real things and you have to, you have to steep yourself and make a point of going after these things wherever you can. | ||
| It's for your own health. | ||
| It's for the good of us all, but it's also for your good. | ||
| And if it doesn't go well, you know, not all, you can't do apologies that hurt other people. | ||
| It's like the amends and twelve step. | ||
| You, you have to make sure they're done in such a way that you don't expose yourself to harm. | ||
| I understand there might be some liability, legal or otherwise, if you apologize for certain things. | ||
| I think that's a lot of what's going on these days with the politicians. | ||
| That's interesting. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And also you don't want to hurt someone else, but otherwise look for opportunity to apologize and just listen to other people's point of view. | ||
| It's very important. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| It's just like after all these years, all these people who got these big things wrong. | ||
| You'd think like a simple apology boy, it would inoculate so much of the attacks against them. | ||
| But you're right, there might be a legal component. | ||
| But but I'm looking for that though. | ||
| I'm looking for I want I don't want blood. | ||
| I want people to go, let's, let's apologize where I made a mistake. | ||
| So I will not do that again. | ||
| Otherwise you're going to do it again. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right, right. | |
| Well, that's why I think Jake Tapper's book got the reaction that it did. | ||
| Because it's like, dude, you were part of the thing. | ||
| Your book should be an apology, not an explanation of the cover up that you committed. | ||
| But that's a sidebar. | ||
| You mentioned that you're dressed in your good suit today because you are going to a homeless conference. | ||
| I saw some numbers right before we broke it. | ||
| I'm going to show you some numbers right before we brought you on. | ||
| So right now there are, there are almost two hundred thousand homeless people in California. | ||
| And California's homelessness represents 24 percent of the national total homeless population. | ||
| I don't know if the conference you're doing is specifically for California, but can you talk about what you're doing and just what it is a I don't see a lot of this here in Miami. | ||
| Yeah, it's a documentary actually through the Salvation Army who have always been there helping with addicts. | ||
|
unidentified
|
And there's the militant wing of the Salvation Army or the regular wing? | |
| I don't know the difference. | ||
| The one I used to refer to was literally a joke for the first time. | ||
| That's all. | ||
| I don't know the difference. | ||
| There's no military. | ||
| I don't, I listen. | ||
| I step on so many political landmins. | ||
| I was like, another landmind for me. | ||
| I said so. | ||
| But, but, yeah, the homeless thing, I've seen what it is from the beginning. | ||
| These are my patients. | ||
| It's like I'm literally a surgeon who sees the surgical problem all over everywhere that he could fix if somebody would allow him. | ||
| This is not that hard a problem to fix. | ||
| It's really not. | ||
| President Trump has started, you know, I used to work with Ben Carson during Trump one to try to, and he, he got it. | ||
| He understood. | ||
| He came out and he walked the streets with me here in Los Angeles. | ||
| He got it. | ||
| There's no question about what was going on. | ||
| It's just finding out a way to make a difference. | ||
| I don't know why Trump felt at his liberty to do an executive order now, but it's going to help just saying, just saying. | ||
| It's not okay to just lie down on the sidewalk. | ||
| If you're so sick, if your brain is so far gone that you're going to lie down on the sidewalk, we got a problem. | ||
| That's as sick as a brain gets. | ||
| That's it. | ||
| That's the worst. | ||
| Right. | ||
| You're at the end there. | ||
| That's it. | ||
| That's as far as people go without dying. | ||
| And guess what? | ||
| They die if you leave them there. | ||
| And they all so the vast majority of his addiction, obviously, they have two huge problems with the homeless. | ||
| One is that they that they send sort of high school student out with a clipboard. | ||
| You are you doing drugs? | ||
| Oh no. | ||
| So they're not they're not drug addicts. | ||
| You have to you have to know how to do a psychiatric interview. | ||
| You have to send out skilled people to actually get the data and they have never done that. | ||
| Second problem is who is rendering the care to the people on the street? | ||
| Social workers. | ||
| Social workers. | ||
| That's right. | ||
| Trying to have a physical therapist do orthopedic surgery. | ||
| They are not trained for this process. | ||
| They say the scariest thing in the world to me. | ||
| We got to always meet patients. | ||
| where they are. | ||
| Drug addicts, where they are, is they want to do drugs, nothing more. | ||
| That's it. | ||
| You do not meet drug addicts where they are. | ||
| You get them to do something. | ||
| You have to ask drug addicts to do something as simple as come with me. | ||
| You can't lie down on the sidewalk. | ||
| That changes everything. | ||
| It gets the movement in the right direction. | ||
| And he is sort of added to the idea of institutionalization. | ||
| Yes, some people need custodial care. | ||
| That's just it. | ||
| Some humans need custodial care. | ||
| It's the way it is. | ||
| I don't like that. | ||
| And we can do custodial care. | ||
| People watch one flu over the cuckoo's nest and they first of all think, I think they're seeing a documentary. | ||
| Secondly, Ken Kesey wrote that thing in 1959, 75 years ago. | ||
| You don't think mental health care is different now? | ||
| It's actually kind of lovely. | ||
| It's like hotel care. | ||
| We can do great services without what that looked like back a hundred years ago, nearly a hundred years ago. | ||
| What do you do about the drug component of this in that it seems to me the drugs are changing constantly. | ||
| So we don't always do. | ||
| Well, now we have a better handle on what's coming across the border, but the drugs that you must be seeing these people hooked on now are way more addictive and dangerous probably. | ||
| No, is that right? | ||
| The pain, the way more addictive is just get more people hooked, you know, in terms of once they're hooked, it's all kind of the same thing. | ||
| It's opiate addiction and stimulant addiction. | ||
| That's it. | ||
| And if you don't treat them, they will die. | ||
| This is the part. | ||
| There's a guy you should interview him. | ||
| He wrote a book called Crooked Smile. | ||
| He's going to be in this documentary that I'm just working on right now. | ||
| And he told me he's now a carpenter. | ||
| He made it out. | ||
| He was an opiate addict and he got sober and he said that, first of all, everybody's doing drugs. | ||
| Everybody. | ||
| He never met anybody in the streets that wasn't doing drugs. | ||
| Number one. | ||
| Number two, he got his drugs from the social workers on the street. | ||
| They gave him the rigs, gave him the drugs. | ||
| And then he said they towards the last couple of years, they would pat him on the back and say, once we get communism in place, this won't be a problem for you. | ||
| Can you imagine this taking the sickest, sickest, sickest brain disorder and not understanding what you're dealing with and having this ideological fog you live in where you imagine that it's due to the economics or that it's capitalism? | ||
| I mean, it's just, it's just so nutty cuckoo and they deny that this is a progressive disease. | ||
| This is the other part of the problem. | ||
| I don't care who administers or gives the drugs to a drug addict, the disease progresses to death. | ||
| And that's why we lose six to eight a day here on the streets of Los Angeles. | ||
| What's the documentary called? | ||
| We don't have a name yet. | ||
| We, we, not that I wear of it. | ||
| So I'll send it out. | ||
| But I want to say one more thing about, you know, things that go viral between you and me. | ||
| The thing, the other thing that went viral between us was something that Elon retweeted was where I told you, I just can't believe anything in the press anymore. | ||
| And that has gone way worse. | ||
| When I first said that, it was sort of occurring to me. | ||
| And now it's you think that's the floor and yet Oh boy, now it's I don't know what to do with anything anymore. | ||
| I'm, I'm, that's why I'm talking to Grock ten times a day and I look at him with a very jaundice eye too. | ||
| So it is. | ||
| It has come a point where. | ||
| Everybody seems to have a point of view and the point of view is not does not include giving us the facts. | ||
| Just the facts, please report the facts. | ||
| I'm finding that. | ||
| I'm finding more of that on like, uh, Instagram. | ||
| I'm finding people just, you know, who are reporters who were reporters who were just going, uh, let me just give you the facts. | ||
| And I'm finding it there, strangely enough. | ||
| Well, you know what? | ||
| You're on the short list of people that I still trust for whatever that is worth. | ||
| My friend. | ||
| And I have just heard through my ear, uh, my lawyer has broken into the conversation. | ||
| You, you can't have the right Rubin Report assets. | ||
| Oh, good. | ||
| You can't come back there. | ||
| It's going to have to go to auction and see the whole thing. | ||
| No, listen, you're doing me a service because if you end up dead, they're not going to come after me. | ||
| So don't you dare end up dead. | ||
| You and that lovely family, do great, have a great time, enjoy your health, and you'll come back with six times the horsepower that you have now. | ||
| That's the plan, my friend. | ||
| Good to see you, Drew. | ||
| All right, buddy, thanks. | ||
| If you're craving more honest and thoughtful conversations about politics, check out our politics playlist right here. |
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