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Nov. 2, 2024 - Rubin Report - Dave Rubin
01:09:11
Ex-Lobbyist: This Isn’t Normal. It’s the Beginning of a New Crisis | Calley Means
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calley means ▲ ● ▼
The public health emergency right now is childhood obesity.
The public health emergency right now is 66% of American adults having prediabetes.
The public health emergency right now is we have 25% of women on SSRIs, you know, basically a numbing agent that's not working.
Like, there's a public health emergency blaring.
That's why hospital beds are full.
And the fact that the medical system and the medical experts still think after this disaster of COVID that they have any rationale to lecture us.
You know, my sister and I talk about in the book, it's like, It's just not rational.
When it comes to chronic conditions, when it comes to the things that aren't going to kill you right away, but the kind of long-term sicknesses that are destroying this country, there's just no reason or rationale or argument of why you should give the medical system the benefit of the doubt.
We've never prescribed a drug for a chronic condition that leads to lower rates of the chronic condition.
So I think there's this violent pushback led by the fact that these industries have co-opted our institutions of trust.
Again, I just can't say this enough.
The pharma industry pays five times more than the oil industry to politicians themselves, and they're the largest funder of media.
And they fund the literal regulatory agencies like the MPA, 75%.
unidentified
It's a crazy world, crazy world.
Somebody's gotta have the same views.
It's a crazy world.
It's a crazy world.
Somebody's gotta have the same views.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼
Joining me today is a New York Times bestselling author, a wellness entrepreneur, and co-founder of TrueMed, a company focused on integrating healthier lifestyle choices with healthcare spending accounts.
Callie Means, I am extremely happy to have you in studio finally.
It's good to be here.
I realized as you walked in, this is, I believe, my last interview before the election, so it might be my last interview ever, depending on what happens.
calley means ▲ ● ▼
You might be in jail.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼
Really?
Oh, we could be jailed?
We're the ones that could be jailed?
They keep telling us they're going to be jailed, but we could be jailed just for talking about health and things of that nature.
So it's kind of funny.
I sort of wanted to have you on this week as a little bit of a break from the political racehorse stuff.
And yet, in a weird way, everything you do as it relates to health and farming and factory farming and all of these things has become deeply political.
So before Before we get to the political part, can you just tell people that may not know too much about you, just a little bit of your background, how you got involved in this, and then we'll kind of connect it to everything else.
calley means ▲ ● ▼
Yeah, I used to be a lobbyist during my career for the food and pharma industry.
And I think the one stat that I honestly just put my head around, actually, recently, but defines everything, is we're 4% of the U.S. population.
We're 4% of the population in the United States, of the world population.
unidentified
Wow.
calley means ▲ ● ▼
We produce 70% of pharmaceutical profits, and we're 60th in life expectancy among all countries.
And that pretty much sums up what I like.
You just can't actually wrap your head around.
So, 70% of profits for the pharmaceutical industry.
what the biggest issue in the country is.
I mean, we have co-opting of our institutions, and I saw it up close and personal.
It's to kind of define my worldview.
And the fundamental premise that I saw working for these industries is that, you know, so many institutions in this country make money and are driven by an incentive that's the opposite of what they state.
I mean, I think we have a healthcare industrial complex.
The healthcare industry is the largest and fastest growing industry in the United States.
It's much bigger than the military, much bigger than tech, much bigger than any other industry.
And it's producing worse health, more infertility, more people being overweight, more depression for each marginal dollar we spend.
Just as I think the military industrial complex, as Tulsi talked about, It's producing a less safe country for each marginal dollar we spend at this point.
You go to education, we're producing dumber kids for each dollar we spend.
So I saw it up close and personal.
I saw, as a junior employee, a strategic effort to steer bribes, consulting payments, and research funding to Stanford and Harvard.
I was shocked.
Transactional meetings with the dean of Stanford Med School about opioids, about how Pfizer and Purdue Pharma were going to funnel money to actually create Stanford Medical School's curriculum.
So really just saw those examples, got out of that system, radicalized by my sister, who is top of her class Stanford Med School surgeon.
She left the system after just a simple insight that she never learned why people get sick.
Just medically, and that I think is where we get into the policy, is doctors, pharmaceutical companies, hospitals, the NIH, Dr.
Fauci, what have you.
Nobody's asking why we're getting so sick.
Nobody's asking why we're 4% of the world population, but we're 16% of COVID deaths because our immune system is so destroyed in the United States.
There's plausible liability for everyone to be washing their hands of that because everyone's profiting from the fact that we're actually, our human capital, America, is really, really Weak and really, really compromised.
So, put the pieces of my experience with my sister from the medical background, and after the death of our mom from a preventable condition, cancer, which by the way is just skyrocketing right now, skyrocketing among kids.
We're at an all-time high of cancer rates this year in the United States, just like every other chronic condition.
We started going on the warpath and are talking about this.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼
So, there's a million ways we could go here.
I think it's fairly obvious to someone watching this how this all became very political once you started just looking at health, and it sounds obviously like a lot of the stuff that you're talking about echoes a lot of RFK's things, and you're doing some stuff with him, which we'll get into.
Are you...
Now that you've gone down that rabbit hole, does it shock you that all of the institutions, I mean, you just mentioned a couple of verticals, education, healthcare, like there's a whole bunch of verticals that all seem to have been corrupted.
Does that seem obvious or disconnected that they all kind of went down the same path?
I think it's like, I mean, we could do the laundry list of things.
calley means ▲ ● ▼
I think it's radical and just a vital national conversation we're having on these institutions that have been co-opted, and I think we're all labeled as conspiracy theorists we're talking about.
But if you look high-level at what's happening in the world right now, to me, the foundational, I think, societal dynamic of our time is this lunge of voters making their voice known and their frustration known with these populist movements.
I mean, it's happening in every single developed country, whether it's leftward or rightward.
Voters and citizens are lunging out like something's not quite right.
So I think everyone feels it.
I think everyone's trying to put their finger on it.
I think a lot of people can't necessarily explain exactly why they're so passionate about Donald Trump or other populist figures in other countries.
But I think what's happening in independent media is we're unpacking exactly what's happening.
We're unpacking with the media how 50% of TV news spending is from the pharmaceutical industry.
We're actually talking about that.
That's being aggressively labeled as conspiracy theories, actually just unpacking these institutions.
But I think that's where independent media comes in.
To me, what independent media is, it's asking these questions.
You know, some of the questions and solutions and takeaways aren't totally right, but we're having these messy debates.
People are waking up.
Eyeballs are gravitating towards that.
And then I think where voters are going is politicians that are trying to put the finger on that.
What I think is so powerful and why health, thankfully, has become such a powerful...
I think discussion topic and national conversation in this closing day to the campaign is it's a tangible example of these mass corruption and corporate capture issues that I think voters are trying to put their finger on.
I think what RFK has done so well and what my sister and I are trying to do is everyone sees what's happening with kids.
Everyone sees what's happening with their own health.
There's something clearly just not right.
unidentified
right.
calley means ▲ ● ▼
And I think we've learned a lot of lessons from COVID, quite frankly, that we're still trying to put together.
So by actually tying these incentives and this corporate capture into what's happening in a kid's classroom where 50% of young adults are now overweight or obese, I think it's helping people put their heads together, not just on the health issue, but on this overall, I think, macro dynamic, which is the defining issue of Trump's candidacy, which is just which is the defining issue of Trump's candidacy, which is just the It's corporate capture.
Yeah.
unidentified
And it is...
calley means ▲ ● ▼
I try to just talk about the raw economic incentives.
If you look at each industry, they've been captured by really bad incentives.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼
So let's discuss that a little bit, because I think most people now, or at least a good percentage of people, are realizing there's a lot of crazy ingredients in our things, and Bobby talks about yellow number five that's in our, which cereal fruit loops here, but not in Europe, et cetera.
And there's all of these things in our Doritos and all of our foods, okay.
But the average person's wondering, well, why would they do it here then in America if they did not do it in Europe?
So I guess, how did that start originally?
What was the idea that originally quite literally put poison in our children's cereal and somehow Europe said no to that?
calley means ▲ ● ▼
Yeah, so a lot of things start with good intentions.
So just, and let's just, yeah, let's go through the food.
I think it's just important for people to know how this happened.
So the American diet was almost 100% unprocessed foods up until World War II.
After World War II, we had the Marshall Plan and had, with Europe devastated, had to ship our food, and we became the breadbasket of the world.
And we created these preservatives, all these chemicals to make food shelf-stable and basically created ultra-processed food in order to ship it across the world.
So that's how it started.
unidentified
So far, no bad intentions.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼
Yeah, no bad intentions.
unidentified
Yeah, so you had more packaged food, okay?
calley means ▲ ● ▼
With preservatives and processing of the grains, which takes the fiber off, which spoils, which hurts the nutritional value, but okay.
And then you had the rise of industrial agriculture, which is actually less...
It produces less output per acre, but you can mechanize things, and that led to the explosion of pesticides.
But the story really is important and gets interesting in the 1980s.
So, our percentage of ultra-processed food consumption, really this food in boxes, didn't start exploding until about the 1980s.
And something happened, which I talk about a lot in the 1980s, something very deliberate happened, which is that cigarette companies were the largest companies in the world.
Literally, if you looked at the highest market caps, you had Philip Morris and R.J. Reynolds in the top 10 largest, most valuable companies in the world.
And as the Surgeon General started coming down on smoking, those companies to diversify started buying food companies.
So they actually saw that the processing, that creating basically these frankenfoods that isn't natural with all these ingredients we don't recognize, they can actually use the same playbook that they use for cigarettes to buy off the USDA, and they started what's called grass standards, generally accepted as safe.
And they created, through the USDA, a situation where our government does not say whether chemicals are safe.
It's self-policing, and basically they have to be proved harmful after the fact, after including our food.
And through that lobbying, the cigarette industry put 10,000 chemicals in our food in the 1980s and 1990s that aren't legal in Europe.
In Europe, we have to prove that something we're eating is safe.
What they were able to do with those chemicals is make food much cheaper, and they're really mixed together to be addictive and palatable.
So we had cigarette industry scientists, as those companies, Philip Morris and RJ Reynolds became 40%, just two companies, 40% of our food supply in the 1990s.
You had just unbridled chemicals and then really good scientists working with those chemicals to basically hijack our satiety signals and evolutionary biology to make this ultra-processed food something that you basically can't stop eating.
So if you look at it right in 1990, calorie consumption in the United States started skyrocketing and percentage of ultra-processed food consumption started skyrocketing.
So I'm a conservative.
We're free market guys.
But the cigarette industry...
Co-opting the USDA to the point of 19 out of 20 USD Nutrition Guideline Committee members are paid for by food companies.
Co-opting the USDA to where they self-police any chemical in our food.
Co-op the FTC to allow the top advertiser, Nickelodeon, to be food companies.
You can't look on YouTube with kids' stuff without seeing food companies.
unidentified
Yeah.
calley means ▲ ● ▼
Having this fundamentally addictive substance, which is these frankenfoods, with artificial colors in there that are safe in the United States but banned in every other country.
They're literally crude oil.
That's what these colorings are.
But they do research that the neon colors make kids want to buy them.
So you just had frank just rank corporate capture.
Buy cigarette companies of the USDA in the 1990s that's led to a metabolic health crisis where today a child's diet is 70% ultra-processed food.
So, I think what Trump and RFK are unpacking and what I'm certainly arguing is like, I think we get in this left-right box too often.
Like, there's a fundamental poisoning of American children with 10,000 chemicals we don't allow in any other country through a corporate co-opted system and a metabolic health crisis among kids to where 33% of young adults have prediabetes and where we really have a competitiveness issue where 77% of military-age men aren't eligible to join the military.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼
Do you think in a weird way that it was an inevitability that this would have happened in that?
Capitalism, which is the best of all systems, even for whatever its flaws may be, allows for some of these, maybe you disagree with that, but allows for these companies to come in, and then the government that doesn't really operate the way it's supposed to ends up not regulating the things that it's supposed to, or can't regulate the things that it's supposed to, or the people are bought off, that basically no system could have done it better, and now we're just getting out of the learning process of that, something like that.
calley means ▲ ● ▼
I think that's right.
I think one of the dynamics in our culture today is that we are living in a good, optimistic society.
And we've got Elon, you know, sending rockets up and these robots that he's making are just incredible.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼
And I don't think we- The climate people hate the guy trying to get us on other planets.
calley means ▲ ● ▼
It's really something.
And there's a real story of optimism.
And I don't think we'd want to trade a lot of our modern conveniences for, you know, going back 100 years.
Nobody's suggesting that.
So I think in some respects, as I truly agree, we're living in an amazing, one of the best times.
But I think we've lost our way in the midst of this unprecedented progress.
And we have, I think, more abilities to destroy ourselves today as well.
And I think that's where this anxiety is coming.
It's like we...
We are living in good time, but we're also, I think, facing more existential threats.
So, capitalism is great, but, like, the military-industrial complex fundamentally is built for more conflict and wars.
Like, the healthcare...
Every system in this country, every single lever makes money when Americans are sicker for longer periods of time and loses money when they're thriving and healthy.
And that's what it's producing.
You can go down the list.
The media fundamentally is paid for by the pharmaceutical industry, which is an industry that profits from Americans being sick, which is why during COVID there wasn't one mention of our compromised immune system.
It was all about a pharmaceutical solution.
If you just trace the economic incentives that have been created, I don't think those are capitalist incentives.
I think it's corporate cronyism and corruption.
Maybe it's an inevitable byproduct of fast economic growth.
But again, I don't like getting in this box of is this left, right, capitalist?
It's just like we have a health collapse that we're very close to, I think, in this country.
unidentified
Right.
calley means ▲ ● ▼
I mean, with healthcare rates growing at two times the amount of GDP, you know, if we don't reverse this, it's going to be 40% of GDP in like 10 years, right?
It's 10 to 12 years with the rate it's growing.
I mean, we're going to bankrupt the country.
So, yeah, we've got to have a hard look.
And I think it's the question in this election is an incremental change, frankly, a question among people that are around President Trump.
I think President Trump is saying we need bold change.
We need real systemic transformational change.
And then I think the people that are profiting from the current industries are saying we need incremental change.
And I think that's a big choice the American people are making right now.
unidentified
Right.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼
I like how you frame that because I agree.
It's not the fault of capitalism.
It might just be the byproduct of freedom, but now here we are still as free people, now with more information, and maybe we can alter some of that.
And I mentioned to you right before we started, I mean, my team even in here, I mean, we talk about this stuff constantly, and a lot of us have changed our diets and attitudes and gotten off seed oils and all of this stuff, so you still have a chance.
As a free person.
That's why I thought what Trump did with McDonald's was so great, because then an hour later, you've got Bobby sending out a tweet about beef tallow, and it's like, it will not surprise me if in one year from now, maybe that's a little bullish, but if Trump is president, that McDonald's will switch from, what are they using, canola oil?
I don't know what it is, but something pretty terrible for their fries, back to beef tallow, which is in essence what they did, I think, before 1990.
calley means ▲ ● ▼
The McDonald's goes and piss me off.
People say, oh, Trump's not serious about health.
It's like, No, Trump's not saying that to go to McDonald's.
The question is, why do McDonald's french fries have 17 ingredients right now?
They used to have three, and in Europe, they have three.
It's salt, oil, and potatoes.
So what are the incentives that have led McDonald's french fries to have 17 ingredients?
And it's top down and bottoms up.
And I want to be clear, and if you listen to RFK and Trump, they're not talking about any regulation.
They're just talking about getting the truth.
I mean, if it is true that glyphosate, which is now sprayed on almost everything we eat and not sprayed in any other country, which requires a hazmat suit to spray it and kills every organism in sight, is now just like on everything our kids eating and our microbiomes being destroyed, leading to horrible situations.
If they can definitively prove like every other country has, that's a problematic substance, then the political calculus changes a little bit.
But I think we have a bottoms-up situation.
Clearly, there's a questioning of the American people of seed oils.
Really not a big thing in other countries.
The top source of American calories right now was used as engine lubricant by John D. Rockefeller.
It's a highly processed way to make these oils.
It's not anything our body's evolutionarily made to eat.
Is this the right thing we should be shoving down our throats?
It's like, yeah.
So I think What you're hitting on is this optimistic message.
It's just like, I don't think anyone wants this.
I think the brilliance of the American system and our capitalist system is that we are able to savage our current industries.
It's actually happened throughout the past 150 years in really positive ways.
You look at, like, Teddy Roosevelt.
There's been, like, really dramatic pushbacks against the system.
You know, Teddy Roosevelt, that was the richest period in American history, relatively, versus other countries.
You know, a lot of things were going well there, but there was also a lot of reforms.
Some of them are good, some of them are not good.
But that's the history of America.
I think that's where the independent media free speech comes in, quite frankly.
We'll get to the right answer if we're able to kind of hash this out.
But for some reason, the media and actually regulatory and government agencies themselves are violently telling Americans they can't ask questions about why they're getting so sick.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼
I mean, so in some respects, do you think COVID and the ovary, let's say, overreaction that they had with COVID and the fact that you would watch the news shows and then they would quite literally say brought to you by Pfizer while they were telling you to take a Pfizer medication and not go outdoors and eat, take out all of this.
Now, what we now see is fairly ridiculous stuff.
In some ways, this isn't going to sound exactly right, but are you happy that that happened to some extent because that has led to the wake up?
That people intuitively suddenly were like, wait a minute, I'm being forced to be injected with something.
It isn't stopping the vaccine.
They've blocked me out of the gym.
Like there were just too many factors that seemed counter to basic knowledge.
calley means ▲ ● ▼
I think COVID was one of the most important societal and political dynamics, you know, of our lifetimes.
I think since World War II, I mean, they locked us all up for a year.
They caused a generation of setbacks for kids, economic dislocations.
I think we're going to feel for another generation.
It exposed, I think, the fact that our immune systems are really poor in the United States.
I mean, if you were...
RFK and Trump have said this.
If you're metabolically healthy, you really weren't.
Dying of COVID. Almost demonstrably.
That's almost just a definitive statement.
I think it was four comorbidities on average.
So we were lied to...
And the lockdown policies, which were a pharmaceutical kind of invention, I think were the biggest public policy mistake of my lifetime, probably one of the most consequential.
And then we were told to shut up.
And weirdly, right, I was just talking to a reporter on the way in here, but weirdly, every single article now about RFK and Trump is how the experts are so concerned about the damage to public health.
unidentified
Yeah.
People that come in and are asking what's going on.
calley means ▲ ● ▼
I sympathize with them.
We shouldn't bring polio back, but the public health emergency right now is childhood obesity.
The public health emergency right now is 66% of American adults having prediabetes.
The public health emergency right now is we have 25% of women on SSRIs.
You know, basically a numbing agent that's not working.
Like, there's a public health emergency blaring.
That's why hospital beds are full.
And the fact that the medical system and the medical experts still think after this disaster of COVID that they had any rationale to lecture us.
My sister and I talk about in the book, it's like, there's just not rational when it comes to chronic conditions, when it comes to the things that aren't going to kill you right away, but the kind of long-term sicknesses that are like destroying this country.
There's just no reason or rationale or argument of why you should give the medical system the benefit of the doubt.
We've never prescribed a drug for a chronic condition that leads to lower rates of the chronic condition.
So I think there's this violent pushback led by the fact that these industries have co-opted our institutions of trust.
Again, I just can't say this enough.
The pharma industry pays five times more than the oil industry to politicians themselves, and they're the largest funder of media.
So you have...
And they fund the literal regulatory agencies like the right 75%.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼
So you literally have or they're board members of the companies that end up.
calley means ▲ ● ▼
Yeah, you know, Trump's Trump's FDA director, one of them went straight to Pfizer, as we know, and.
And so, Scott Gottlieb.
So, you just have a – it's not conspiratorial.
When you have an industry that profits from this dynamic, funding the regulatory agencies, the politicians, and the media, and then you have the media, the regulatory agencies, and politicians basically calling anyone a war criminal and anyone who questions the existence of some dangerous, it's really problematic incentives.
And I think that's why it's so important.
just to get Trump over the line and to get RFK over the line, because this isn't a health policy issue.
It's just a moral clarity issue.
You know, we get bashed, I get bashed, you know, where's your medical degree?
It's like, no, the most important thing when it comes to healthcare particularly, and we could go into other industries, is just seeing this for what it is and being able to go straight at those corruption incentives.
And we can fix this so quickly, but I do think this election is about as existential as you can get.
And I think it ties so much to the independent media.
I think it ties so much because you've got to be able to have these conversations.
You've got to be able to point this stuff out.
And if you wake enough people up, which is happening right now and happened during COVID, it's hard to put that back in the bottle.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼
It's why I'm very proud, to whatever extent I've had any influence on any of this, that like...
to have some of these conversations years ago when they weren't as comfortable to talk about.
Now it's definitely gotten easier, at least at the moment, and we'll see what happens post-election, but people were afraid to talk about all of this or election stuff or anything else.
It's like, here we are.
So as you're out there now with Bobby and people are waking up to some of this stuff, what are some of the basic things for someone that's watching this, and we've discussed this a little bit on the show, for someone that's watching this that is not aware of any of this stuff and is still using salad dressings that have canola oil or they're still having the cereal, what are some of the basic things that they should get off that probably will change them for the better in a relatively quick time?
calley means ▲ ● ▼
Yeah.
The core thesis of our book, Good Energy, is that it's much more simple than we're led to believe.
So when it comes to food, the unholy trinity of three ingredients, it's that simple.
It's vegetable, seed oil, so canola, soybean, safflower, oils like that.
You'll see them on any salad dressing.
They sneak into hummus, to healthy foods, to your creamers, to oat milk.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼
It's almost impossible, actually.
Once I became aware of this, it's almost impossible to find salad dressings that are made with olive oil.
You pretty much have to make them yourself.
Everything is basically canola.
calley means ▲ ● ▼
Everyone watching, literally, if you can just rob your diet of that one ingredient, you are going to transform your health.
And I've been actually blown away.
Like, when my sister and I were writing the book, I really wanted to write a diatribe about, like, the corruption in the system.
And the editor's like, no, you got to put tips in.
Okay, well, the tips are simple.
It's like seed oils.
And we've gotten thousands of messages of literally, like, people, like, they're sending their blood tests.
So, like, we've transformed our family's health in...
In one quarter by literally just looking for seed oils.
Because if a product has seed oils, they're making that as cheap as possible.
I think that company really isn't caring about you that much.
At the most basic level, It's a processed ingredient that we're just not made to eat.
And that gets the two other ingredients real quick is highly processed grains.
So what does that mean?
So if it's a whole grain, you know, that's not corrupted, like we're made to eat.
We ate grains for tens of thousands of years.
The processed grains, as I said, is taking the fiber off.
It's basically a hidden sugar.
And then I believe, and you always get slammed, oh, there's not enough research for that.
But I really do think a key problem in the United States is our grains that are sprayed with a bunch of these chemicals like glyphosate that are being phased out of other countries.
You always hear about people going to Europe and eating a bunch of pasta and losing weight.
There's something really problematic about our grains and the way they're processed in the United States in any type of packaged food.
They're pulverized and changed beyond recognition and have a ton of inevitable chemicals on them and turn into hidden sugar.
So processed grains, any type of refined flour or wheat, I would really try to rob that out of your system.
And then added sugar.
We all know about added sugar, but that sneaks in everywhere.
It's got 40 different names on labels and our fruit disconsumption is up, I think, 30%.
3,000%, which is a particularly nefarious type of sugar in the past 100 years.
If you can do those three ingredients and just get to more whole foods, I don't understand why this is so controversial or why this is being attacked.
It's not Trump saying, don't go to McDonald's, but when it comes to the USDA nutrition guidelines, there's nothing conservative or liberal about getting the truth from scientific authorities, which This is a lesson we learned from COVID. The USDA recently came out with a report like months ago saying that a child's diet 93% ultra-processed food, which is basically those three ingredients I just mentioned, can be healthy.
They are a promoter of ultra-processed food.
They came out two weeks ago.
You can Google this two weeks ago and said that there's not enough scientific evidence to say whether ultra-processed food is bad or good and we should not vilify food.
They, to this day, I cannot stop talking about this, because I think there's no more criminal guideline in the country.
They say a two-year-old could be healthy for their diet to be 10% added sugar.
Added sugar.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼
I'm going to introduce you to my two two-year-olds after this, and when you see these kids who are eating only natural, organic food, nothing processed.
We've given them nothing with sugar.
We actually finally, like two weeks ago, took them to this farm.
They had like a lick of soft serve, and they weren't even into it.
That's the level and how smart they are and aware.
calley means ▲ ● ▼
And I'm sure you're talking about it.
It's a great thing.
So I bristled as a conservative, okay, we don't want the nanny state.
There's nothing.
It's actually a betrayal of the American people that are scientific authorities.
Why aren't they giving us guidelines to thrive?
Oh, Why aren't they advising parents to do exactly what you're doing?
It's been transformational.
I have a two and a half year old.
That's why a big reason I'm in this fight.
And just watching his love of, you know, steak and love of, you know, a little bit of berries and stuff, you know.
But like, it's just, it's beautiful.
And we know, I'm sure we both know, it's like there's something happening to that child's development when they're eating that real food.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼
I think we can feel it.
We do a lot of steaks around here.
And I'll give them the bone from the tomahawk after.
calley means ▲ ● ▼
They chew it.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼
And it's so primal and obvious.
They know it.
calley means ▲ ● ▼
And I just think that we, through our recommendations, and this is kind of the RFK Trump agenda in my head, it's stop recommending and stop subsidizing.
We literally take what children are naturally born to do, which is To be playing, to be eating natural foods, to be in the sun, to be, you know, not overloaded with a ton of pharmaceuticals probably, right?
And we just do the exact opposite.
So it's just stop recommending this crap to kids and stop subsidizing.
We literally just subsidize the wrong foods to go in our kids' bodies.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼
So in your dream world, if Trump wins next week and then says, okay, Bobby, so what is it you want to do?
Or if he says to you, what do you want to do?
What is that?
Is that take over the NIH and the CDC? Is that one of you taking agency?
Is there some combo there?
calley means ▲ ● ▼
Let me get to specifics, because I want to be clear, you know, being in these conversations and seeing, you know, a small vantage point how President Trump and RFK are discussing this.
It's not horse racing for positions right now.
It's really larger than that and a holistic view of health.
So number one...
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼
Okay, so forget your agenda.
calley means ▲ ● ▼
Number one is the USDA, the agriculture, and the HHS health need to be seen as one and the same.
Everything is siloed right now.
We need to see food as health.
And what we need to do is take those two organizations and in the first hundred days just get the corruption out of those organizations.
I cannot express just how that simple act of not having the FDA funded by the pharmaceutical industry, of not having the CDC have a non-profit that pharma funds hundreds of millions of dollars into, of not having 80% of NIH grants go to conflicted researchers.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼
What does it actually mean, though?
Like, do you literally have to, like, fire half the people there?
Like, I get the idea of these things.
I think most people can understand the idea of these things.
But I'm talking, like, when you get in there, like, are you just walking?
Like, I don't mean you specifically.
But is that what is going to have to be done?
That these things, they basically have to be disassembled?
I think that's what people are trying to figure out.
What does it actually mean?
Like, we can get on the idea part.
calley means ▲ ● ▼
Yeah, I'll give an example.
So the NIH, you could have an executive order that says that the NIH grants can't go to researchers that are being paid for by drug companies that directly impact that research.
Everyone would assume that it's already in place.
It's not, 80%.
So that executive order, what that would do is lead to complete chaos in the medical field, and there'd be attacks on President Trump for an assault on scientific research, which would be an interesting political—and again, this is just my— But that would be an interesting political dynamic where President Trump is not touching scientific research funding.
He's just simply saying it can't go to co-opted researchers.
You could do an executive order saying, people don't even understand this, but the NIH right now is a pharma R&D. No NIH money.
to speak of is actually going to understanding why people get diabetes, why people are getting Alzheimer's, why people are getting cancer.
It's almost all for pharmaceutical interventions accepting those increasing disease rates as a trend.
You can sign an executive order tomorrow and we have this and we're recommending for President Trump's consideration.
It's something he's talked about.
But putting the NIH back to doing foundational research about why we're getting sick.
What a concept.
But we're not doing a study right now looking at different variables among people with different disease rates.
I It's not even getting into the vaccines or getting into food, but let's look at the core of people and let's look at variables of why people are getting sick and what's related to people getting sick and what's not, so we can attack those things.
We don't do that right now.
There is an aggressive war on any research to actually understand why people are getting sick, what they're eating, what drugs they're taking.
So that would be very good research, which then flows in, and this is huge, to Medicare-Medicaid policy.
So we spend more on Medicare and Medicaid three times more than the defense budget.
It's the biggest part of the U.S. budget.
And it's totally bureaucratic how that money flows.
And right now, if you're on Medicaid and you're sick, you're getting a drug.
You're not getting any holistic—and that construct, right?
It's not left or right.
It's like, why are we on Medicaid poisoning every lower income person with food stamps which 70% go to ultra processed food, having no healthcare dollars go to helping those people thrive?
The Medicaid only kicks in when a poor person gets diabetes, which 30% or so of people on Medicaid have.
It's an epidemic among lower income people.
And then we give them drugs for life, which that standard of care doesn't even make sense.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼
It makes sense, just not if you're trying to take care of people.
calley means ▲ ● ▼
It makes sense if you're trying to commit suicide against the population and lead to a situation where a lower-income man in the United States dies 15 years younger than an upper-income man.
And I think this can happen within the first 100 days.
Both with existing research that we have, open source the data sets, open source all these data sets, population-wide studies about why people are getting sick, have people come up with the answers, and then reflect those in the Medicare-Medicaid incentives, which then impact all insurance.
The problem is we truly have this sick care system that waits for people to get sick and then profits the pharmaceutical industry by design.
So it's getting the conflicts out of the research.
How would that happen?
How would the personnel work?
You know, I'll be honest.
I think when it comes to NIH, CDC, FDA, it is real aggressive action, in my opinion, against these sick care incentives and a real mantle.
When it comes to the agriculture policy, I think there's huge problems with big ag, but we got to bring the farmers to the table.
I think nobody in the agriculture community, including the farmer lobby, thinks that what we have right now is a good situation.
A tomato grown in the United States, We're the agriculture capital of the world, but 20% of our children are malnourished.
Like, there's something wrong.
So, I think you can, you know, really disrupt the healthcare agencies and use President Trump and RFK, quite frankly, in their reform agenda to bring the agriculture community together and figure out some compromises and solutions.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼
farming part a little bit because we're seeing, it seems to be a worldwide attack on farmers.
I mean, you see what's happening in Belgium, you see what's happening in Holland, in many other countries.
It seems a little short-sighted to me for the government to be going after the people that are producing our food.
But I suppose if your incentive was maybe to have a docile populace that wasn't that healthy, that could just be drugged and in essence enslaved, I mean, it sounds like sci-fi, but- No, there are dark, high-level...
calley means ▲ ● ▼
When you look at not what they're saying, but what's actually happening, it's very dark.
I mean, why is the food industry fighting for the colorings, which is crude oil, which demonstrably causes ADHD and neurological issues?
Why is the people that I'm even dealing with, they're saying that RFK and me are dangerous people for suggesting we should stop poisoning kids?
I think that's honestly what's rallying so much support for President Trump.
You Why would the school shut down and the teachers' unions defended that for two years in some cases?
Why are we giving kids so many pharmaceutical products and basically attack when we ask a question or parents ask a question, the gender reassignment?
I mean, you go down the list.
There's dark things happening to kids.
But with farmers...
I think every farmer should be outraged for what's happening.
We basically have terrible incentives for them.
Nobody's happy, big or small farmers.
We have incentives that basically force them into making components for ultra-processed food, corn, soy, wheat.
And then pharma is reaping all the profits.
You know, we spend two times less per capita in the United States on food than Europe.
We're really shafting our farmers.
Also, we're importing so much from China.
Like, I don't think people realize this, but like a huge percentage of our meat and meatpacking is Chinese.
These chemicals I mentioned, like The packing part is the crazy part.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼
So we literally take meat from like four places on Earth, like Australia, maybe from America, Canada.
Then we take it and we send it there to package it to bring it back here.
I mean, it's nuts.
calley means ▲ ● ▼
We've outsourced our meatpacking to China.
And then all of these chemicals that we're using on our food that are banned in other countries, like glyphosate, it's almost predominantly made in China.
And China's phasing those chemicals out of their food supply.
So I consider them almost like bioweapons that they're importing.
So the strings that foreign companies have into our food system, Monsanto, Bayer, which is a German company which is making all of our seeds...
Bill Gates is the largest owner of Farmland that's got really weird incentives.
I mean, there's this weird co-opting many times from foreign governments into our food system.
So, to me, there's a real message here that we need to really believe and empower our farmers.
It's not telling them what to grow, but right now we are.
Right now, we do more in agriculture subsidies than any other country in the world combined.
And it's all kind of going to this kind of broken industrial ultra-processed food system.
So I think you can really...
I don't think it's going to be less money for farmers.
We need to believe in our farmers.
We need to empower them.
So there's a real, I think, importance there of a pro-farming, unleashing American competitiveness in farming, and really seeing our food supply as a national security issue.
I mean, you get to that 77% of Americans not being eligible for the military.
I mean, that's a profound...
I really do think you don't want to overuse the military threat and national security argument.
We have a national security issue with our metabolic health, with the chronic disease, and with our competitiveness right now as a country, which flows also to mental health, which is a disaster.
I think there's a really bold commission and panel with diverse farming interests to get foreign influences out of our food supply and really reform our incentive structure.
Uh, to, uh, empower our farmers to make food that actually leads to thriving for the American people.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼
So while you guys are working all that, all that, and again, hopefully in less than a week, we get the result we want and then things start going in the right direction.
What are some of the other things besides understanding some of the ingredients that you think people can do in their own lives?
You just got here.
I'm very proud of my garden that we put together.
We've Planted in the last two years about 30 fruit trees here.
We're working on getting backyard chickens a little more complex in parts of Miami than you might think, even though we've got chickens running in the streets in other parts of Miami.
But what are just some of the other things if people just want to get a little more control over their food, over their life, over, you know, just some of the ways to not be so dependent on the system?
Because I think that is really what it all boils down to.
unidentified
Yeah.
calley means ▲ ● ▼
The first chapter in our tips is getting control and understanding of your data.
There's a war in this country to scare people from understanding what's happening inside their own bodies.
It's just such a black box, right?
It's like when we go to the doctors.
Actually, states today, there's multiple states that actually it's illegal for you to even have ownership of your own medical records.
You don't even have ownership or can necessarily even see them.
It's owned by the system.
So I would recommend everyone really understand what's happening with their blood tests.
So we get our standard ones for free, which are HDL, triglycerides, blood pressure, blood sugar, and then there's another one, waistline, which we all know.
Those five biomarkers I just mentioned, if you have those five in a normal range, you almost by definition aren't going to get nine of the ten leading causes of death for Americans.
So that's obviously diabetes, which is a blood sugar.
So if you have right blood sugar, you by definition don't have diabetes.
You almost have a 0% chance of getting heart disease, which is the number one killer.
But people don't even understand cancer, pancreatic cancer, which my mom died of.
Is more tied to blood sugar dysregulation than smoking is to lung cancer.
We're saying all these cancers, you know, the top oncology person at Stanford told my mom it was unlucky that she got pancreatic cancer.
It's not unlucky.
If you have these biomarkers under control, you're very unlikely to get...
breast cancer is another one highly tied to metabolic dysfunction you're plummeting your chances even with genetic issues you're plummeting your chance of blood breast cancer if you have your blood sugar under control Alzheimer's is now called type 3 diabetes and if you have you know if you're not pre-diabetic or diabetic you have a very low chance of getting Alzheimer's so really understanding those we go through it in the book and then playing a game with yourself to really go on a path of curiosity and this is what What's, I think, the spiritual element here?
You know, working with your kids, playing a game with them, you know, getting these biomarkers under control, empowering yourself with data.
The medical system still says today that they don't want to give too much data because it's going to scare people.
There's a whole movement not to even weigh people in a doctor's office.
I think we're so blunt with how we talk about sticking to a vaccine schedule or something like that.
We need the bluntness to get our biomarkers under control.
I truly mean this.
And this, again, the first 100 days is getting corruption out, getting the standards of care right.
But then it's just simplifying the standards of care.
There should be a national effort in this country to just get those five biomarkers under control.
Then we get into 100 functional medicine lab tests that go into a bunch of other...
So there's a company, Function Health, which I... I can't recommend enough or any type of functional medicine practitioner that gives you a bunch of blood tests.
You know, so many people I talked to having read the book, right?
They didn't even realize they had an autoimmune issue.
Those are exploding.
They didn't realize they had a vitamin D deficiency where they can cure that with supplementation and it is tied to depression and a bunch of other things.
They didn't realize their omega-3s.
We were all unique, and having your blood test as a base, I'd say that to anyone, anyone who's personally suffering, or they're a kid or teenager, you know, is a little bit depressed, or their doctor's telling them to go on a stat or metformin, get control of your blood test first, because then you can start playing a game with yourself and start gamifying getting those down, which I think is really important.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼
I'll tell you two quick things that my audience knows, but related that are perfect examples of what you're laying out there.
A couple years ago, out of nowhere, I was losing huge chunks of my hair.
I had alopecia areata, huge chunks.
I lost about 40% of my hair.
I went to every doctor.
I took every freaking test.
I thought I had cancer, AIDS. I had no idea.
They couldn't find anything wrong.
Then they chalk it up to stress, but who knows what it was.
But really, the way I solved it was through diet.
I largely now do a carnivore diet, and I was even, this past year, I've been basically only doing carnivore.
Little bit of stuff on the side, but pretty much cut out sugar and all that.
And I just, for my life insurance, just did the full blood pallet, cardio, all the stuff.
And I was worried, because I was like, I don't know, I've just been eating all this meat, and I have a good amount of salt, butter, and all that stuff.
And my numbers came back fabulous, and they lowered my life insurance rate.
And I was like, oh, It's not that crazy that I changed my diet, I started feeling better, my body responded positively, and now I have the numbers to prove it.
So I think just doing some stuff that, take a chance, do some stuff and see how you feel.
We're also completely disconnected to how we feel I think.
calley means ▲ ● ▼
Yeah, and I just think, you know, getting to the tips, it's just a mindset on that.
We're scared and threatened, basically, that a carnivore diet's dangerous, but we're not getting warning signs on our ultra-processed food.
We're saying, like, soda and, you know, just sugar-laden fruit juice is safe for kids, but, you know, Thomas Massey, a representative of Kentucky, who was almost arrested recently for, like, you know, drinking raw milk.
So there's a war on raw milk.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼
One of my guys gets his raw milk here.
You have to get it from the animal sector at the store.
calley means ▲ ● ▼
Right, it's a veterinary.
It's a veterinary, but then look at all the other...
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼
Even here in Florida, where we're pretty good about this.
calley means ▲ ● ▼
Look at all the other toxic crap with all the colorings that they're selling.
So there's a really backwards thing.
I think, you know, the carnivore is a really interesting thing.
I think one of the profound parts of that is it's just taking a lot of the toxins out.
The meat is actually one of the...
You don't have a lot of the toxins in there.
A lot of the pesticides.
And it actually just is a detoxifying...
It's a protocol.
So I just, I would encourage everyone, like, this is not, the books, my book, books by Dr.
Mark Hyman, you know, blog posts, every podcast is talking about this.
Now there's tips.
But I think, to me, what's so rewarding, as you're seeing with your kids probably, is just like, going on a path of curiosity.
Do you getting, your blood tests start that path.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼
Yeah.
calley means ▲ ● ▼
And I just think that is where I'm optimistic of a world with more bio-wearables, with more understanding.
We're all dying much earlier.
The health trends are falling off of a cliff, and we should know the trajectory we're on because that's more motivating to solve it.
And then carnivore might work for someone.
I always say I don't care whether it's carnivore or vegan.
Start with something radical and figure out what's right for you and look at your blood tests.
My sister levels, which is blood glucose in real time, it's just like Start playing that game and you'll find what's best for you.
But I guarantee you, there's not many people that have been misled by getting more data and then experimenting with their diet, whole food biased.
And then there's all this talk about what exercise protocol is good.
There's not a big problem or epidemic of sick people that are moving, that are doing 8,000 to 10,000 stuff a day.
Just do something, basically.
And doing 8,000 to 8,000 steps and getting their heart rate up for at least 150, 180 minutes.
It's like I've been up and down on the exercise.
It's just doing something.
Then you optimize your diet.
Then you optimize.
But I just think On an individual level, what we're seeing is people are taking more control of their family's health.
I think that's happened.
I mean, you're talking about it.
Joe Rogan's talking about it.
I think radicalizing for a lot of people, tuning into Joe Rogan during COVID, this misinformation, and all he's talking about is exercising and eating healthy.
And that's where everyone's gravitating to.
And then, you know, again, that gets to the government stuff.
It's not...
It's not command and control, but we spend $4.5 trillion on healthcare.
So we should have that healthcare kind of standards of care, the right advice for the thriving of the American people.
Unless we're just abolishing that $4.5 trillion, it should go towards functional medicine blood tests for every single American to get their control, to have them understand with their family and incentivize better food, which is the root cause of disease.
I'm not like I'm not like messianic about food and exercise being the solution.
I think we should all be really rigid that we should have the best clinical guidelines for the issues plaguing America.
90% of the issues, 90% of medical spending and deaths in the United States are lifestyle conditions.
We've been poisoning ourselves.
Reeling that back with our healthcare industry will produce thriving for the American people.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼
It's just so interesting to me because it's sort of where we started, but I just see all of this so connected to the media that lies to us about everything, like the institutions that lie to us, so it's not just food, it's what they've done to our education system.
It's just all right there.
So, okay, so if we've got...
If you clean up your diet a little bit and you get rid of the seed oils and some of the other things you talked about, and now you get some control over your biomarkers, you know what's going on with your blood basically in your heart, what else can we do?
What else can we do?
calley means ▲ ● ▼
Yeah, I mean, it really goes to the basics.
I mean, get a whole foods diet.
If we have 80% whole foods diet, try to get organic.
I do think the pesticides are a huge issue.
Try to do pasture-raised meat.
Really be on a path of curiosity about the quality of your food.
We're getting 25% less sleep in America than we did 100 years ago.
Sleep as a baseline.
It's getting eight hours of sleep.
It's tracking your sleep.
I mean, that is just the baseline.
Chronic stress management.
I think prayer.
I think meditation.
I think there's some kind of spiritual problem we've had of just getting disconnected from You know, centering ourselves.
I think throughout all of human history, we were outdoors just by how we had to be.
We had more awe for the world around us.
I think the phones and the chronic stress.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼
Touch some grass, as they say.
calley means ▲ ● ▼
Yeah, I just think there's nothing more profitable than preying on a kid's dopamine and our dopamine and our attention span.
And I think that is a really, again, We have a great modern society.
I love my phone.
I'm on it all the time.
But like, we are being preyed on with the media too, just with chronic stress.
And I really do think it's a huge issue that we're in a constant state of alarm when I think we had just much more peace and awe, just like Without so much going on, and that's what our cells are made to handle.
So being really conscious of our chronic stress and our kids' chronic stress is really important.
And there's a lot of tactics we go through, you know, from prayer, from meditation.
You know, we talk today in the book about psychedelics, which I think is actually profound research on, quite frankly.
And I think we have a mental health epidemic that's not being cured right now.
And I think we're being slanted by the pharmaceutical industry that just wants to drug every single condition for life.
That's a whole other rabbit hole.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼
Well, let's do that a little bit, because I wanted to talk to you about mental health a little bit, because it seems to me that there's clearly a mental health crisis from the endless outrage that we're doing all day long, and I guess I'm pretty good about this thing, but I'm in it too, to the fact that we literally take fifth graders who just have a lot of energy,
and as Jordan Peterson says, you've got to run these kids until they're exhausted at 8 p.m., But instead we put them in these classrooms where they don't move, we end up drugging them and then we tell them they have ADHD or they have the reverse of that or whatever it might be.
So is that all again, is that all just connected to all, just teach, we've taught all of the wrong things.
So then parents are just like, all right, just drug him.
You know, he wants to be out at six o'clock riding his bike and he should be home studying.
calley means ▲ ● ▼
This hopefully sheds a light on the policy solutions that we talked about, but it's really bureaucratic standard of care.
So let's just look at what we do right now.
And just back up.
If you take any animal and put them in a cage, and they're sedentary, and they don't have a lot of sunlight, and you're constantly annoying them with chronic stress triggers, and you're force-feeding them basically all to process food and sugar and processed grains, any animal, they're going to go exhibit crazy behaviors.
There's YouTube videos of rats where they're on ultra-processed food and have some bad stimulus and then not, and the natural diet, and they go crazy.
They lose cognitive functioning.
Like, this is not radical.
and the separation of our medical standards.
You know, the NIH has a department of mental health that's totally siloed and they're just studying the brain.
That's one thing we have an executive order for.
There's 23 different NIH departments.
It's diabetes, it's cardiology, it's mental, these things are all connected.
Like if you're force feeding yourself and sedentary, but so that's the environment we're existing and we're super sedentary, we're getting terrible sleep.
The sun and circadian rhythm dynamics are extremely important.
We talk about that a lot in the book.
And actually, looking at the sun, having the lights a little bit lower.
We never had natural or artificial light until 100 years ago.
Our cells are totally embedded to a rhythm of sleep cycle with the sun.
Like we have to be cognizant of that.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼
Literally just turn down your lights at 8 p.m.
unidentified
Right.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼
So that your eyes are adjusting accordingly.
unidentified
Right.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼
I mean.
calley means ▲ ● ▼
But all these dynamics impact our mental health.
So what do we do?
If a kid's a little bit fidgety, we have 15% of high school seniors on Adderall, which is one molecule away from meth.
unidentified
Yeah.
calley means ▲ ● ▼
You know, we, SSRI rates, antidepressant rates have doubled among high schoolers in the past You know, if they're a little bit high cholesterol, they're on a STAD, which has mental health impacts.
Now, of course, they're recommending Ozempic for as young as six.
Ozempic, a huge side effect for Ozempic is...
It's depression.
It's suicidal ideation.
So they're actually prescribing more SSRIs with Zempic.
It's like a two-for-one special.
And then what does SSRIs do?
The number one side effect of SSRIs listed on the box is weight gain.
So you're actually needing more Zempic.
So we have all these crazy dynamics, this toxic stew of everything happening.
So yeah, the foundational, like what Trump and Harf K are talking about.
At the medical level is seeing our chronic disease and mental health crisis as interconnected.
I mean, you know, from a small data point with a book that's really resonating that my sister and I wrote, it's like, that's it.
It is just a lie that Stanford Medical School, when you graduate, my sister graduated, has 42 specialties, and you never talk to another specialty for the rest of your life.
Things are connected.
The mental health epidemic is connected to why there's a diabetes explosion.
And we have to understand that from our medical system.
And as a parent, And this is my advice to parents, my tactical tip, is if your kid has an infection or a broken bone or something acute that's going to be a big issue or potentially kill them right away, that doctor deserves the benefit of the doubt.
Potentially take that antibiotic, no question.
But if they're about to be prescribed a statin or your doctor's giving dietary advice or an antidepressant or anything chronic, anything that's not going to kill that kid right away, you are going on a bad path by listening to your doctor, most likely.
The doctor does not deserve the benefit of the doubt.
You are most likely being lied to.
The suicide rate among doctors is the highest among any profession.
I think because they know that they're not serving patients and they're in a terrible incentive structure where they're really, I think, actively creating a moral hazard by telling that kid that Adderall is the curer For why they're fidgety.
It's not.
It's not.
So you should truly trust the podcast, trust the books, trust your own intuition much more.
And then again, that gets the really macro societal spiritual issue with that Bobby's tapping into and President Trump is tapping into of like, we've lost since we lost.
We've taken leave of our common sense with how we think about health care.
We just don't have any curiosity anymore for what we're putting in our bodies, which has been taken away from us.
So just getting back to our own intuition is really important.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼
So if the election does not go the way that we want, you've already addressed that this is not purely political because you've mentioned a spiritual element of it.
And you've mentioned familial element.
What would be adjustments then that you would want to make to ensure that people will do some of these things?
Because, I mean, if Trump doesn't win and Bobby's not involved in this stuff, the show goes on.
It goes on as it's continued to go on.
There's been no reformation of the CDC or the NIH. Fauci still gets his $400,000 a year in retirement.
So that will just continue.
Would that fundamentally shift the work that you guys are doing?
Do you privatize stuff more?
I mean, is that basically the idea at that point?
calley means ▲ ● ▼
I'll be direct.
I'll be direct.
I mean, I am praying that when this airs that we'll have a resounding victory for Trump.
Health, unfortunately, is political.
And I don't know.
I made it right now, but I think a lot of people feel like this really is one of the most important elections in the world.
They always say that.
And he has to win.
My sister and I talked about this on Rogan.
My sister says it much more eloquently, but I think we are on the verge of a health collapse in this country.
It's a societally destabilizing event with what's happening to kids' health and how we're poisoning kids in the war on kids.
So I'm scared for the continued competitors in the country, but what do we do?
We, I mean, we have a, we have a, despite every single media entity telling people that they're Nazis who are supporting this Ufenda, we do have a bottoms-up, you know, revolution happening.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼
You were at the MSG, bro.
Yeah, yeah, I'm sorry to interrupt.
calley means ▲ ● ▼
Very positive.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼
Did you see any Nazis?
calley means ▲ ● ▼
No, I didn't see them.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼
Did they laugh at all the Nazi jokes?
They did when Hogan was like, I don't see those thinking Nazis.
calley means ▲ ● ▼
I didn't see the Nazis.
I saw a diverse group, and I saw a lot of Israeli flags.
So, so, but, but realistically, We need to win because there's, I think, an uprising of consciousness that's happening that's trying to give power to RFK, that's trying to give power to Elon.
If it doesn't happen, we need to really resist.
We need to protect free speech.
We need to make sure that we continue to talk about these things.
We need to have a radical disaggregation with chronic disease management from the government.
I will be aggressively pushing bipartisan policies because I do think I think either route, but particularly with Trump, this could be a true bipartisan issue.
I think Trump, actually, I've heard from Democratic members of Congress that if a president can really beat up on this issue, they can then have air cover to tell the farmer lobbyists to get out of their office, and they actually want that.
I actually know a lot of Democrats are praying for a president to really make this issue high-level and say they're going to veto anything that's corrupt so that they can really push the right thing and get the lobbyists out of their office.
But, you know, I mean, we're going to push forward bipartisan solutions if the other side wins.
But, you know, I just got to be honest, I'm not optimistic because I don't...
I don't think this issue changes and we have a real paradigm shift with how...
This is a paradigm shift.
This is a true...
It's a true rethinking of medical standards of care to not have cardiology, diabetes, depression in separate silos, but actually see everything as connected, which has to happen.
So that requires high-level executive leadership.
But...
Yeah, if Kamala wins, buy good energy, get blood tests, take matters into your own hands, and we've got to try to support bipartisan efforts to chip away at the sick care system.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼
A buddy of mine, Bob Juergens, doing stand-up about 20 years ago, used to have a funny joke about the Prozac commercial where there's a woman and she's got this animation cloud following her, and she's talking about how depressed she is.
And then she takes it and she's less depressed, but it's like, and then side effects include nausea, vomiting, restless sex.
And then she's like, well, now I'm depressed because you have all these things.
But it goes to your point that, well, then we'll drug you with something else and we'll drug you with something else and we'll drug you with something else.
And before you know it, that's how you get to the collapse because you have basically an entire population of people that...
That are in too deep, in essence.
calley means ▲ ● ▼
It's waggable.
I mean, look at birth.
We have a 40% C-section rate in the United States right now.
Is that right?
Yeah.
It's close to 40.
It's like right at 40%.
unidentified
And, you know, a lot of women don't want that.
calley means ▲ ● ▼
We, you know, give them different drugs.
We say they can't handle the pain.
You can't handle this.
We induce because the doctors want to be on a schedule, and that leads to more complications.
And it's every woman you talk to now, right?
Birth is a crisis.
It's just...
So when you start intervening, when you start going against nature, things cascade, right?
And when you start getting on one drug, there's complications and you need others.
It's just like once you get on this treadmill, things just start going out of control.
And that's happened, I think, tragically to birth.
I don't think women are giving informed consent on going into all these interventions and the most...
You know, biggest miracle humans perform is a totally medicalized process now that's often just a horror show.
It's like, in every facet of life, we're just intervening too much and cascading.
We should absolutely have, like, emergency surgical procedures for complicated childbirth, which are a big thing.
But we should be defaulting to awe of the human body and, you know, non-intervention, but we're just not doing that.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼
Let me just ask you one other thing, and then let's definitely pick this up after the election, and hopefully it all worked out, and then there'll be a lot of new things to talk about in terms of how these things can actually be fixed.
You mentioned a little bit about vaccines, and now since you just mentioned birthing people, also known as pregnant women, can you just talk a little bit about the vaccine schedule and just what your general philosophy is on that and how things have gotten a little out of control, let's say?
Yeah.
calley means ▲ ● ▼
Everyone should be questioning why this is the one issue we can't ask a question about.
Like, you're just immediately violently censored, but when it comes to childhood chronic disease, oh, we can't expect moms not to give their kids a treat sometimes.
I just think that's one thing I'd say.
The medical system...
Knows how to make a point really strongly.
There's no excuses, no cost too high, right?
No social justice considerations when it comes to jabbing your kids on time with 72 immune system changing interventions.
Like, no problem with that.
And there's no excuses.
So I just say, I just ask everyone the question, why isn't that the same type of emphasis from all sectors when it comes to why 33% of people Young adults have prediabetes.
Why can't we use that same emphasis?
That's one thing.
When it comes to the schedule itself, it's highly problematic.
It's highly problematic.
There's no other product in the world where the second you get on the list, you're mandated in government, paid for by every single living American, And you have all institutions of society basically calling anyone a war criminal who questions that list.
So just, I think everyone can agree that the incentive from a pharmaceutical company is to get more products on that list.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼
It's beautiful.
Right.
And the list has expanded in crazy ways.
calley means ▲ ● ▼
No, it's gone from like 20 to 72 shots in like 20 years.
unidentified
Right.
calley means ▲ ● ▼
So I don't understand why it's controversial to say there's a huge incentive as a pharmaceutical company, and you literally can't watch the NFL now.
There's a vaccine for everything.
Bill Gates is saying his goal is 50 new vaccines, and he's highly invested in these companies.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼
The number one farm owner, as you mentioned.
calley means ▲ ● ▼
Yeah, the number one farm owner and one of the biggest investors in pharma.
It's really weird.
So there's this absolute breaking the neck.
To get more vaccines.
That shouldn't be controversial.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼
Okay, so for the eight-month pregnant woman that's watching this with her husband, they're confronted now with all of this stuff, right?
They know they have a couple weeks to go before, literally, when the baby's born.
Vitamin K shot, you know, the slop on the eyes for, what is it, hepatitis or something, which she most likely doesn't have if she hasn't been cheating on the husband.
I mean, the series of things.
So, yeah.
calley means ▲ ● ▼
The vaccine schedule is unquestionably a result of corruption and problematics, and you have every right as a mother and a parent, and I would actually argue an obligation to ask questions and to research the schedule at the very least.
The schedule is created in order to, you know, they say to protect society.
The doctor's not giving advice for your individual child's situation.
And I actually don't think that's what the Hippocratic Oath says or what a doctor's obligation is to that individual child.
So you have every single right to ask questions as a parent about immune system changing pharmaceutical interventions, which inevitably have potential benefits and risks.
And the fact that that is one area of the world where we basically bully a mom not to ask a question, and these do have powerful impacts.
I mean, these change a child's immune system for life.
I mean, obviously, as any drug has, side effects.
So you should ask questions and it's important.
These are important medical interventions.
Very specifically, you are getting jammed a hepatitis B shot within 12 hours of that child's existence on this earth.
I will give an opinion on that.
It's a scandal and that absolutely has to be revoked.
Hepatitis B is a STD or it's through needles.
There's not a case in documented history of really anyone getting it from any other way.
Literally, when I talk to a doctor about it, I'm like, what is the scenario?
If the mom has been tested for hep B and doesn't have it, And then the child's born, what's the scenario where they'd get it between like zero and 10?
And they said they could trip on a hepatitis B infected needle on the playground.
It's like, there's not a case.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼
It basically doesn't exist.
calley means ▲ ● ▼
It doesn't exist.
And it's problematic.
It has side effects.
And even unknown, because we can't really research them.
So, there is not a case other than, and this is what literally people say when you push them, that it's important and people will forget, so we might as well just do it right away.
But this is a heavy metals and a very serious intervention.
And at first, why are we taking this beautiful child and putting...
That intervention.
So I would strongly push and get your head around as a parent why STD vaccine if you don't have Hep B. If you have Hep B, you should get it, in my opinion, honestly.
But if you're by law, the standards are you're tested for.
If you don't have it, you should.
I've never heard an explanation for that.
The vitamin K, all this.
Why are we going and giving all these interventions, right, when a beautiful child's born?
It's actually very dark.
Then when you get to the schedule, the vaccine-friendly plan is an interesting book.
It's okay to do some research.
That's what I'd say.
And there's hugely problematic incentives with the schedule.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼
Alright, since we can't end on vaccine schedules, we have to end on something more positive.
So, well, I guess, notwithstanding what happens next week, I mean, I sense you're hopeful either way, because people are now more empowered.
And I guess, really, at the end of the day, that's what this is about.
calley means ▲ ● ▼
To be direct with you, I never have felt more nervous, and I've never had higher convictions.
I think we're at the most important moment of my lifetime with this election.
That's how I feel, to be totally honest.
I think they're saying they're going to take free speech away.
I think there are dark, dark forces against kids right now.
And there are people on the other side that do not understand how, I think, at risk our society is if we just keep pounding these bad incentives among kids.
Like, we have not had rectification of what we did for kids with the school shutdowns on We have the elites and medical organizations basically apologizing for poisoning our kids.
I think it's dark and I think we have to win this election.
And I'm, to be blunt, I don't want to end on a pessimistic tone, but like I think our country's going to persevere, but there's some major moments in American history that I think things could go certain ways.
I think this is one.
If President Trump wins, when he wins, I think we really need to all support him and his stated objective for true generational reform to healthcare and many other sectors.
There are evil people in his midst, which he said on Rogan, and I'm seeing it.
There are evil people in his midst.
There are angles that he is trying to be influenced that we don't even understand.
The month after his victory is going to, in my opinion, be the most important month in American history because there are trillions and trillions and trillions of dollars on the line.
And if he stays true, as I know he wants to, to his reform With the military industrial complex, with healthcare, with our border, with our economy, true generational reform, it's going to be unleashed American power, but also be extremely disruptive to industries.
I think there's huge, huge, huge room for optimism if President Trump wins, and we all support him and help him exert that mandate we hopefully give him for generational change because there are evil forces in his midst trying to get him to modulate.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼
I hope you will be part of that adventure.
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