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March 22, 2024 - Rubin Report - Dave Rubin

41:46

Dave’s Prediction Comes True: Candace Owens Leaves the Daily Wire

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andy ngo

08:44

dave rubin

30:28

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00:31

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unidentified		[Music]
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		Hello Internet.
		I'm Dave Rubin.
		This is The Rubin Report.
		It's March 22nd, Friday, where we normally do a Friday roundtable extravaganza, but then all hell broke loose on the Internets about a half hour ago.
		You have probably heard already.
		The Daily Wire and Candace Owens have parted ways.
		This is unfolding right as we speak.
		There are announcements being made and videos being put out there and everything else.
		To some extent, for better or worse, I'm kind of right in the middle of this thing because we just found out a few minutes ago that Candice has officially opened a locals page and is planning on going independent.
		She put up a video over there.
		Also, obviously, I've been in the mix with Candice and with Ben and the Daily Wire and all that for a long time, so I'm gonna do... We scrapped our show about a half hour ago.
		I was gonna have Andy Ngo on and And Ari Hoffman.
		Andy's gonna join me in about 20 minutes.
		He's the senior editor over at The Post Millennial, and he's gonna give us some background on all of this and add some analysis.
		And he's obviously big on the ground when it comes to dealing with Antifa and a lot of that nonsense.
		And also he's a keen, he's got a keen eye on what's going on on the media.
		But we did scrap the show so that we could address all this, because obviously this is, not only because she's joining Locals now, Which I created, but also it's personal because Candice and I kind of came up together.
		Ben and I kind of came up together.
		I actually sort of gave Candice her first break, I guess in a way, because she used to be a little-known YouTuber known as Red Pill Black, and the first kind of legit show she was on when she had just a couple subscribers was my show.
		So we're going to go into some of the history of it.
		I want to talk about how all this relates To obviously free speech and big tech and everything else.
		And I'm going to do my best to remain as above the fray as possible, not make any of this personal or anything else.
		We'll see if I can actually do that.
		And interestingly, I'm sure many of you saw it, but I was on Patrick Bette David's podcast yesterday.
		And they were talking a bit about the Candace-Ben feud and some of the stuff involving Tucker.
		And I basically said, like, obviously she's leaving The Daily Wire.
		I did not know it was going to happen today.
		I had no idea about anything related to locals or anything like that.
		But anyway, so here's just a tweet.
		This is from Jeremy Boring, who's the CEO of The Daily Wire.
		This is about a half hour ago, 40 minutes or so.
		Daily Wire and Candace Owens have ended their relationship.
		It's worded in such a way that it's unclear to me whether they fired her, whether she quit, whether it was totally mutual, but this was obviously coming, right?
		Ben and her have been going after each other.
		For a moment, it does not matter which side you were on in terms of the Israel-Hamas conflict or anything else, but it is a network.
		The Daily Wire is a network, and I think it's an important distinction to make Between a network and a platform, right?
		And for those of you that have been following the big tech fights for a long time, this is when we talk about Section 230 of the Communications Act.
		One of the differences between a network and a platform is a network like Fox News is a network.
		The Daily Wire is a network.
		It is responsible for the content that it puts on the network, and it can have a vision.
		Fox News has a certain vision.
		You may like it or not like it.
		MSNBC has a certain vision, and they're responsible for what they put on there,
		just as ABC is responsible for The View.
		It is a network.
		A platform is Twitter.
		A platform is locals.
		A platform is Instagram, where anyone can get on there.
		And as long as you abide by the rules of the platform, or at least this is the way it was supposed to be before the government got involved in everything else, as long as you abide by the rules of the platform, then you're on there.
		So meaning, if you post something really mean on Instagram, Instagram is not liable for that.
		And this is when people talk about Section 230 of the Communications Act.
		One of the reasons that some people don't want to remove these certain protections That was the initial tweet from Jeremy Boring.
		Again, unclear.
		Did she leave?
		Did he leave Mutual?
		everything everyone says on Instagram, or they will ultimately have to censor everybody.
		So okay, without getting too deep in that, that was the initial tweet from Jeremy Boring.
		Again, unclear, did she leave, did he leave mutual?
		I suppose we will find out, but there was a tweet from Candace.
		It says, "The rumors are true.
		I am finally free.
		If you'd like to support my work, you can head over to CandaceOwens.com, where you'll be directed to my Locals page, or you can give a gift at GoCandace.com.
		There'll be many announcements in the weeks to come.
		So again, I had no idea she was joining Locals.
	That's just fine.
	I do want to... This is exactly why I created Locals, actually.
	I wanted to be independent.
	I did not want to be part of a network.
	There are There are networks out there.
	Obviously I'm in partnership.
	We have a distribution deal with The Blaze.
	There are reasons that you want to bundle with people and then unbundle.
	But my feeling always, and I've been in this game for quite some time I guess at this point, my feeling always was independence and me being my own boss and building my own business and having direct connection with my audience and letting you guys fund me and Without even knowing what you like or think to a certain extent, then I can just do what I think is right and let the chips fall where they may.
	So Candace obviously sees the value in that.
	It is worth noting actually, I don't think I've ever mentioned this publicly before, I would have had no reason to, that a couple of years ago when we were starting Locals, I tried to get Candace's husband to invest.
	We had a couple of meetings, it never came to be.
	I suppose perhaps they they wish they did but okay putting that aside for a moment I want to jump to two videos from yesterday's Patrick that David podcast because I did predict like this was obvious this could not hold much longer either she was gonna burn down the daily wire or they were gonna have to get rid of her that you can't have that kind of Tension just sitting there when you are a bundled network that has what you would believe to be a cohesive ideology, let's say.
	So here's yesterday on PBD.
unidentified		What do you think about the dynamics of her and Ben at Daily Wire where, you know, Ben made those comments at that one event and was recorded and it went to the public and, you know, I don't agree with this.
		And obviously tensions were high.
		What are your thoughts about that dynamic?
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		I think there's many layers to this.
		Let's just remove the Israel layer for a second.
		There's a pure business layer to it, which is that Candace has a contract with Daily Wire.
		I know nothing, I truly know nothing about the nature of the contract or how long it lasts or how much it's for or anything else.
		But it seems fairly obvious to me she wants to leave the Daily Wire.
		We're moving just the specifics around Israel or politics for a second and saying that there, and I think Candace to her own, uh, whether she wants to join Tucker or do something else after start the, the Candace Owens network, whatever it might be.
		I think there are realities outside of just like the political fights.
		And that's why in this case, it actually, for me, it has more to do with that.
		We were friends for awhile.
		I'm trying to honor and respect that we were, we were quite good friends, you know?
		Um, and I, I think.
		She sees an opportunity here and she's going for it.
		Okay, so that seemed fairly obvious to me yesterday and clearly it was borne out to be true today, right?
		Like, they pay her a salary, right?
		I don't think she owns the content that she was doing on the Daily Wire.
		That's not how they do deals.
		That's just how it is, right?
		Like Michael Knowles does the Michael Knowles show on the Daily Wire.
		They pay him amount for it.
		He doesn't own it.
		I guess Ben probably owns a certain percentage of the company as a founder.
		Jeremy probably owns a certain percentage of the founder.
		I own all of this.
		Candace, as someone now going independent, will own all of her stuff.
		Those are just two different roads to go down, and everyone has their own reasons why they do that, or reasons why they pick one or the other, right?
		But it seemed obvious to me that this was the opportunity.
		In a weird way, I think Candace Wanted to be fired, right?
		Because if she wants to go independent ultimately, which I think she really did, and if there already was this tension between her and Ben, which there clearly was, then whether she just got fired, and again we don't know if she got fired or it was mutual, Or whether she voluntarily left or they let her go or whatever.
		It just seemed obvious that it was coming.
		Now I want to address something because there was a certain portion of the, I was on PBD for about two and a half hours yesterday, but there was a certain portion of it that people were clipping out of context where I said something about being former friends with Candace.
		I want to show you the full context of it here.
		I sort of referenced it in the previous clip and then I'll explain further.
		Putting aside the specifics of that clip for a second, I know it would be extremely good for the internet and for the warfare that we're all involved in for me to go after Candace right now, but let me just say that Candace and I were very good friends for a long time.
		I was at her wedding, she was at my house only a year and a half ago helping us pick out strollers for our kids who weren't even born yet.
		Um, I, in large part, I kind of discovered her when she was known as Red Pill Black on YouTube and I brought her on my show.
		We did a sign called YouTube Week where we take little YouTubers.
		When I sat down with her in my house, I didn't, I actually didn't know her name until 20 seconds before we started.
		I said, I think you're Red Pill Black, but what's your real name?
		Uh, we ended, she ended up staying at my house for like 10 hours that night.
		We've had her and her husband over for dinner many, many times.
		So in this case, um, I don't think that, I'm just not in the place anymore where I want to be involved in the firestorm of burn everything down, uh, as it, as it relates to her and everything else.
		Okay, so let me address something very, very clearly because people were taking that out of context and implying that somehow I'm not friends with her because of her position on Israel and Hamas and a whole bunch of other stuff.
		First off, the cleanest way I can tell you this is that when Candace started getting real famous and the Kanye thing happened and everything else, one day out of nowhere she unfollowed me on Twitter.
		So I had sort of helped her get to a certain extent and then she unfollowed a bunch of people.
		She had a bunch of people that she followed And then she unfollowed me.
		So I took that sort of as like a mark of just like, and I'm not trying to create shit here.
		I really am not, actually.
		But I just kind of took that of a mark of like, oh, like...
		There is a limit to our friendship, like it was sort of transactional for you to a degree.
		Then, I don't know, a couple years ago, she changed her phone number and didn't tell me, and I needed to contact her about something and I had to go around away.
		So it's like, I don't know, if you were friends with someone, would you be doing that?
		But again, I'm not doing this for drama purposes.
		I'm doing this to clean up some of the nonsense around this.
		Now, have I agreed with her positions on Israel and Gaza?
		Obviously not.
		Obviously not.
		She's gotten into it with me on Twitter a couple times.
		I would say in a fairly disrespectful way, if you are friends with someone, you can take it offline and deal with it that way.
		So that's really what I meant by that.
		By the way, I take no pleasure in that.
		I was at Candace's wedding.
		As I said there, I was really the first person to kind of put her out there.
		A few weeks before our kids were born, she was here having dinner, helping us pick out strollers.
		for the kids. So I'm just telling you the reality as it is.
	I would also say that you know one of the things that I think helped me stay sane
	throughout all this because you know friends come and go and fame comes and go
	and clicks come and go and all of that stuff is that I have friends from before
	all this. Like I am my best two friends in the world are guys that I knew when
	I one of them I met when I was four and one of them that I met when I was
	seven.
	So I think that's helped me stay sane where a lot of people everything kind of becomes transactional.
	What can I get out of you?
	How do I move forward and become bigger because you and everything else?
	But now I want to jump back for a moment, because I mentioned that when Candace was known as Red Pill Black, she did a video about what it's like for a black woman to come out, so to speak, as a conservative to her black family, and that video blew up.
	And then we were doing something on my show.
	What year was this?
	This has got to be around 2016, right?
	It was 2000, it was either late 16 or early 17.
	We did something on my show called YouTube Week where we would take kind of small YouTubers that were doing all sorts of different stuff.
	It wasn't even all political.
	And we would fly them in and bring them into the studio and I would talk to them and kind of promote them.
	And I thought she was just great.
	And this is, I believe this is the beginning of our, this is just me meeting her quite literally for the first time.
	This is in my garage back in late 2016 or early 17.
	Joining me today is a YouTuber who has done pretty much the scariest thing that one person can do.
	She has come out as conservative.
	The scariest of all words.
	Candace Owens, aka Red Pill Black.
	Welcome to the Rubin Report.
unidentified		Thank you, I'm so happy to be here right now.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		Who is this Candace person?
unidentified		All right, let's just do some history for the people that don't know about you at all.
		I am, honestly, I'm just a girl that makes videos.
		The history is I grew up in Stamford, Connecticut.
		I went to school at the University of Rhode Island, pursued a degree in journalism, which is quite ironic.
		Whoa!
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		Someone that studied journalism that's trying to tell the truth?
unidentified		This is fascinating.
		Yeah, absolutely.
		After college, I was in a lot of student loan debt.
		You know, I came from a family that doesn't have any money whatsoever, and I had to just pay it back.
		So the smartest move for me was to go into finance.
		I hit the ground running in New York City, worked at a private equity firm for four years.
		Uh, left that firm and wanted to do my own anti-bullying startup thing that went really sideways when the left tried to do hit pieces on me during the election and that was my red pill moment.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		All right, so that was quite literally me and her meeting for the first time.
		We sat down 30 seconds before that.
		She ended up, she brought a friend over to the house, ended up staying over for dinner.
		We had chicken parm, which David has made for her and her husband many times over the years, and she stayed till about midnight, a couple of bottles of wine later, and then we became fast friends over the years.
		Here's just a couple pictures of us over the years.
		Obviously, you see me and her at her wedding over there.
		That's one of the times on my show.
		Then one of the times on her show over at the Daily Wire.
		And then one was a party.
		I think that was the night, actually, of that infamous, or famous, depending on which way you look at it, the Kanye tweet, I like the way Candace Owens thinks.
		So, and again, I've had dinner at her house, like, so I'm not attacking Candace in any way here.
		I am trying to, I suppose, even though I don't consider myself a journalist, I just tell you what I think for a living.
		A lot of people pretend to be journalists.
		I'm just trying to lay out sort of what's happened here and now it's interesting because where this all ended up, After, you know, the whole IDW thing, intellectual dark web thing, blew up and it was, you know, me and Rogan and Sam Harris and Jordan Peterson, this whole crew, we were all, Ben Shapiro obviously, we were trying to build a network, there were all these meetings to figure out was there ways to put any of this together and build anything.
		Obviously we all went our separate ways.
		I ended up building Locals and now it's sort of a, I don't know, it's like an odd karmic thing or something?
		She ends up having this blowout with Ben, and Ben has every right.
		By the way, I do want to address something very clearly here.
		The Daily Wire, again, we don't know if they fired her or she left or it was mutual, but a network has every right to say, these are the parameters that we, these are the things that we believe in as a network, or these are the behaviors we believe in.
		Or whatever it might be, a code of conduct, right?
		Like a university has a code of conduct that is different than the First Amendment.
		So this is not a First Amendment issue.
		This is not someone attacking her free speech, but she is welcome to express her free speech.
		And let me just say, as the founder of Locals, who did this, who created this tech to free myself, and then we realized, oh wow, this...
		You freed yourself, let's see if we can free some other people.
		And that's why this company has blown up the way it has, and I'm so freaking proud of that.
		It's crazy that it happened, and obviously we end up merging with Rumble and have become something that's truly wonderful.
		And whether people, there are creators on there that hate me and do videos about me, and that's just fine.
		But the point is, I'm actually thrilled that she's on Locals now.
		And I don't mean that for any monetary reason whatsoever.
		I believe that independent voices should be out there.
		I don't have to agree with them.
		And the Locals policy is the same thing as the Rumble policy, which is as long as you're not breaking the laws of the United States, You can be on the platform, right?
		That was one of the basic ideas that we came up with from the beginning.
		So as long as she's not raising money for Hamas, which I don't think she is, I think she'll probably be okay over there.
		But okay, what happened?
		Why did she leave and what are the motives?
		Well, now I want to jump back to the other portion of this, because this isn't just about Candace, obviously.
		This is also about Ben Shapiro.
		So now here's me and Ben Shapiro meeting for the first time.
		This is maybe a year and a half before all that.
		This has got to be This is February of 2016, me and Ben Shapiro sitting down for the first time, and same with the Candace thing, we had only met about 30 seconds before he sat down.
		I'm very happy that you're here, because I have had all of Twitter basically saying to me for about six months, you've got to talk to this guy.
		This is the guy who will either convert you to conservatism, or you guys are just going to hate each other.
ben shapiro ▲ ● ▼		I'll turn you into a flaming Bernie Sanders socialist, yeah.
ben shapiro ▲ ● ▼		That's pretty much... Pretty sure that's not the direction... Good, so he'll be a conservative by the end of the conversation.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		Well, let's see.
unidentified		Let's see.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		Hewitt would agree that racism exists at some level, right?
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		That there are people that are legitimate racists.
ben shapiro ▲ ● ▼		It would be idiotic to think otherwise.
		Of course there are legitimate racists and we should target them and we should find them and we should hurt their careers because racism is unacceptable.
		But what I don't agree with is this, I don't like fighting phantoms, as I said earlier.
		Institutional racism is a meaningless phrase.
		Libraries are not racist.
		Schools are not racist.
		You have to show me a law, a policy, a person who's racist.
		You can't just say American society is racist.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		All right, so clearly Ben has been preaching a lot of the same stuff for years.
		I thought it was worth showing you the initial time that I met both of them.
		Obviously what's interesting, and I kind of laid it out there, I didn't know which way my career was going to go or my ideology or anything else, But I have, I would say, become, let's say, more conservative over the years.
		I think I've nudged Ben on some things, maybe a little more centrist in some ways as well.
		Here's just a couple pictures of Ben and I over the years.
		This was a very famous picture at the height of the IDW thing with Rogan and Sam and Eric Weinstein and Jordan.
		Sam looks photoshopped in there, but he was actually at the dinner.
		Look, so they have been going back and forth, the two of them, for quite some time, largely because of the Israel stuff.
		Obviously, I tend to agree more with Ben on this, but the Daily Wire, again, is allowed to make whatever calculations it wants as per who it wants on their network.
		Do we want to do some of the tweet back and forth here?
		Alright, so we'll do some of the tweet back and forth.
		And again, I'm not doing this for drama.
		I really, really hope that you guys can understand that.
		I'm just trying to lay out what happened here because it happens to be so close to what I do, personally and professionally, I suppose.
		So here is a little back and forth from Ben and Candice.
		This is a little bit after October 7th.
		So this is in November, middle of November, as things were getting quite heated.
		Ben is retweeting Candice.
		So I'll read Candice's tweet first.
		She wrote, Blessed are the peacemakers, for they should be called the children of God.
		Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
		Blessed are ye When men shall revile you and persecute you and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely for my sake.
		No one can serve two masters.
		Either you will hate one and love the other or you will be devoted to one and despise the other.
		You cannot serve both God and money."
		And clearly everyone understood that that was an attack on Ben who was defending Israel.
		Candace wasn't Taking that position.
		Let's say Ben retweeted it.
		Candice, if you feel that taking money from the daily wire somehow comes between you and God, by all means quit.
		So it was obvious.
		That was back in November.
		It was very obvious this thing was not going to end well.
		If you know Candice, she kind of likes these fights, right?
		She's done it with rappers.
		She's done it with Different singers, different political people.
		She likes it.
		I'm not even judging her for that, actually.
		I used to get into more of these fights.
		I'm just, at this stage of my life and career, I'm not that interested in doing that thing.
		She kind of likes those things.
		And Ben has a position that's held very close to his heart and how much he cares about Israel and the Jewish people.
		And as a yarmulke-wearing Jew in the midst of everything that's going on in the world right now, he has an insane amount of hate Here's another tweet from Candice.
		This is the same day, actually.
		It was a response.
		in his own home, but I don't want to speak for Ben.
		Here's another tweet from Candice.
		This is the same day, actually.
		It was a response.
		She wrote, "You have been acting unprofessional "and emotionally unhinged for weeks now,
		"and we have all had to sit back and allow it, "and have all tried to exercise exceeding understanding
		"for your raw emotion, but you cross a certain line "when you come for scripture and read yourself into it.
		"I will not tolerate it."
		So, look, obviously I disagree with her estimation there, Ben was emotional.
		Many people were emotional after October 7th, and certainly warranted.
		By the way, there are still at least five American hostages, so when people say, what does this have to do with America?
		Well, if you care about Americans, it has a little something to do with that, even if you don't care about Israel, and even if you don't care about the Jews.
		But the point of all of this, and why I said this yesterday on PBD, having no idea this was about to happen today, nor that she was going to go on Locals, is that it wasn't going to hold forever
		and everyone is making their own calculations, right?
		Like Tucker might be looking at this, he just started the Tucker Carlson Network.
		Well, the Tucker Carlson Network obviously is going to be in competition
		with the Daily Wire.
		It's not only, let's say, ideological competition, the future of what the right is or conservatism is,
		but it's also like, oh, we want subscribers.
		There's only X amount of subscribers on the right to go around.
	The Daily Wire is a huge, crazy money-making business.
	I mean, they've turned it basically, I think, into a billion dollar business
	if they were gonna sell it.
	They've built something really, really awesome.
	Now, you may not like this decision.
	It might cost them subscribers.
	Maybe they'll get a boost of subscribers 'cause people will like them more for having got River.
	Who the hell knows?
	We will find out.
	But Tucker might be looking at this going, OK, I want to bring Candace on board.
	Patrick Bette David, who I was talking to yesterday, he went a little quiet as I was discussing this because I think he might be looking at Candace going, oh, maybe I can bring her on board.
	Like, everyone has their own calculations.
	Again, my calculation from the beginning was the best thing creators could have is stand up for your own self and be independent.
	I think if Candice goes down that route, regardless of whether I agree with her or not, regardless of whether she goes after me or not or anything else, she has a platform to do it and I'm very proud to have built that platform.
	It really is as simple as that.
	I want to bring on Andy Ngo.
	Andy Ngo is the senior editor over at Post Millennial.
	And he's another guy that I've been in this game with forever.
	He has quite literally taken the blows for being out there on the front lines, exposing Antifa, exposing BLM, and so much of this sort of crazy Marxist left.
	When I say quite literally taken the blows, he has been physically attacked multiple times at some of these things, but he's also got a keen eye on the media, and as an actual journalist, I mean, that's what I love about, there's a lot of things I love about Andy, but he's an actual journalist, so I don't have to put air quotes around, and I think he can also add some Insight into what's going on here.
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	And now back to me.
	All right, let me bring on my old friend.
	It's a day of old friends, I suppose.
	Friends and maybe ex-friends, but this one's an actual old friend.
	My buddy and senior editor of Postmillennial, Andy Ngo.
	Andy, how are you, my man?
andy ngo ▲ ● ▼		I'm okay.
andy ngo ▲ ● ▼		Thanks for having me on to speak about this.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		Andy, how did I do there?
		Because we are friends throughout this, and there's a whole bunch of us.
		We all become friends, and then people know us, and they think things about us, and some of it's public, some of it isn't.
		It's kind of difficult to talk about some of that stuff, but you're one of the guys.
		Also, we all kind of rose up together, and we now exist in this weird space.
andy ngo ▲ ● ▼		You know, lots of commentators like to react to many things, but Few will be able to provide personal insight, particularly as you have, because as you shared in that opening, you were one of the first big platforms to help mainstream Candace Owens, even before she went by Candace Owens.
		I remember those days back in 2016.
		So, you know, her public career beyond her initial YouTube persona Um, had a lot to do with you introducing her in those days as a black conservative and a Trump supporter to a much larger audience.
		Fast forward seven years, you know, this, this firing that was, excuse me, this, um, business relationship that ended, um, with Daily Wire.
		Um, I, I misspoke there.
		We don't know the circumstances of whether it was a firing or a mutual agreement.
		Um, It is surprising, but perhaps not in the sense that if you take a step back, Canis has been with several other organizations before, and they don't really last all too long.
		Before, she was at TPUSA for a time, and then she was at PragerU, and then in 2021, she joined Daily Wire.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		I wanted to provide a little bit of context around I just want to throw in one thing real quick, because you mentioned Turning Point, and I actually completely forgot until just now.
		I should have mentioned it earlier, but I actually introduced her to Charlie Kirk, and I was standing about 10 feet away from them when she got that first job at Turning Point.
		We were at the Breakers at a Horowitz Freedom Center event, and David Horowitz, by the way, who also So it seems like David Wyatt hired Candace Owens to do what she does, which is to give her opinions.
		She's been controversial for a long time.
		Controversial depending, I suppose, on who you ask.
		say in light of some recent views, but yeah, I did connect her with Turning Point.
		It is what it is.
		Anyway, I'm sorry, continue.
andy ngo ▲ ● ▼		So it seems like David Wired hired Kena Soens to do what she does, which is to give her opinions.
		She's been controversial for a long time, controversial depending, I suppose, on who you ask.
		I think what it looked from the outside that the business relationship
		appeared to probably have been started to strain around the time when Kanye West in late 2022
		had made a number of inflammatory and antisemitic statements in his personal life
		on Twitter at that time and interviews that he gave.
		Candace Owens publicly stood by him But this relationship strain with her colleagues really spilled out into the public after the 7th of October terror attacks by Hamas in Israel, in which Ms.
		Owens took a view that many viewed as too sympathetic to Gaza, too harshly and unfairly critical of Israel.
		And as you highlighted in your opening segment, there were some very ugly back and forth that she had with Ben Shapiro, who is one of the co-founders and presenters on Daily Wire.
		Now, leading up to her separation from Daily Wire this morning, last week, there was another spat that she had with another rabbi.
		And according to Mediaite, Ms.
		Owens had liked a post from another user who mentioned that the rabbi was, and this is the quote, "drunk on Christian
		blood." Now, of course, that goes back to a very old anti-Semitic trope about blood libels in Jewish people. And
		Ms.
		Owens had also in her public spats with this rabbi who had accused her of anti-Semitism, she did bring up his religion.
		So I wonder if that was really the breaking point.
		This is immediately really in the days preceding this morning's announcement.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		So as someone that has been treated quite poorly by the media yourself, and you've gone independent, you're on Locals also, which I'm thrilled about, and now you're doing your thing with Postmillennial.
		Can you talk a little bit about the platform publisher thing that I mentioned?
		Because I think it's an important distinction that people don't really understand.
		Daily Wire has every right to fire her.
		They will deal with the repercussions of that.
		So she's not being deplatformed as if she was on Twitter and then somehow Twitter was not allowing her.
		I think it's an important distinction to make.
andy ngo ▲ ● ▼		I think some people were surprised that Daily Wire had maintained a business relationship with her for as long as it did, given that there have been many months of pretty controversial statements.
		But speaking to being somebody who is also an independent journalist, when you have an institutional relationship, either with another business, you are part of their brand.
		So even if they hire you as a commenter, which is to give your opinions, You have to do it in a professional way.
		And I'm just speaking generally now.
		I'm not speaking specifically about Miss Owens, but obviously, you know, I, I, me being a senior editor, uh, the post millennial, what I say is obviously words that I have to own, but also if I am unprofessional or, um, inaccurate or somehow, um, just completely off base that reflects on The news publication that I'm with.
		So.
		You know, we've seen a lot of content creators who have institutional connections at some point or another, just perhaps maybe not are not able to reconcile that their speech has to.
		They also have to think about their business relationships with others and how it may be interpreted and affect those who work with them.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		Everyone should understand like all of this is a series of trade-offs.
		If you are someone that exists in our space and you take a deal with the network, most likely because they're going to own your content, they're going to overpay you.
		So you're going to take a bigger check because they're going to have more control, right?
		Like anyone at Fox News.
		They don't own what they're doing.
		Fox News has given them a big check to do that, and that's a calculation, and that's not a judgment call by me, that's a calculation.
		You go independent, well now your upside is huge, but your risk is also huge, because it could all fall apart.
		You may think you're gonna be huge, and then the next you launch an independent, you launch locals, or whatever your subscription network might be, and it just may fall apart.
		Andy, what do you think about all of this sort of politically?
		You know, you and I, I think, are people that certainly started Let's say on the left for a long time.
		We're now definitely embraced a little bit more by the right.
		I don't want to speak for you, but I don't think either one of us would call ourselves traditional conservatives.
		But because we tend to be more in right-wing circles now, there is some strange... I think that the fight between Ben and Candace also is illuminating a broader fight on the right.
		What do you think about that, sort of politically speaking?
andy ngo ▲ ● ▼		Um, I think that the, uh, the political left is obviously very happy whenever they can see, um, the right in the United States be fractured or have issues of infighting.
		Um, uh, but at the end of the day, these are issues that have to be resolved.
		How do you reconcile very, um, disparate views that exist on the right about the state of Israel?
		Obviously there are views of Israel that go from, Criticisms all the way to hatred as a state of Israel all the way to anti-semitism that exists on the far right That's also an additional context to this to the story that I that I didn't mention earlier that a lot of the online cheerleading of miss Owens in recent weeks and months have come from the Online so-called groper movement, which is extremely anti-semitic
		And hit pieces have been written about Miss Owens for this.
		I don't fault her, by the way, for what other people say and write about her.
		But her critics have also pointed out that she's failed to sufficiently distance herself from these people who have come now to cheer her on.
		And you can see these in the comments in the back and forth that have happened.
		So that's also part of the The context here that there are different factions at play who are who are reveling in this chaos, I would say.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		You know, it's interesting because that was what I was trying to bring up yesterday on the Patrick at David podcast.
		Everyone's got their own calculations, their own audience to go to.
		She may just view this new online, right?
		I mean, trust me, when I when I've had little interactions with her that I do as respectfully as possible, it's not even that she's going after me.
		It's the endless amount.
		Of crazy hate.
		It is what it is.
		I don't bitch and moan about it.
		It's the internet.
		People say weird things.
		Let me tell you a couple other predictions.
		I know everybody loves being in the prediction game.
		Where do you think this leaves The Daily Wire at the moment?
		Because they've built something truly extraordinary that nobody thought they could build.
		Left LA to do it.
		Highly profitable and everything else.
		Do you think they come out of this thing stronger or weaker?
andy ngo ▲ ● ▼		Um, I think for a time, their audience will be splintered, but they'll recover.
		And I predict the same thing about Miss Owens as well.
		The thing is, in this space, people have short memories.
		This might seem very catastrophic now, but months down the line, people forget.
		You can just, I mean, we can think of, you know, how many people who have had various Scandals, some of them very big, who have just recovered and people just forget that they had this scandal the year before or a couple years before.
		And Miss Owens is obviously somebody who's very brilliant.
		She's very charismatic.
		She's already shown that she's been able to move up and up and up in her career.
		And so I predict that both parties will be fine, really, at the end of the day.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you think she's gonna stay independent because there's just no doubt that there are major checks being drawn up right now, whether it's Tucker, I just have no doubt about that, or maybe PBD or elsewhere.
andy ngo ▲ ● ▼		I think given how controversial the days leading up to her separation has been with Daily Wire, that any larger conservative media that would have the resources to have Ms. Owens as a contributor or a presenter in some way, they're
		probably going to be a bit reluctant.
		And I'm not giving any personal insight, I'm just speaking generally of figures who are
		controversial. But I think maybe an independent platform may be what Ms. Owens wants in that
		she has very explosive views on a number of issues. And if any type of institutional
		affiliation is going to, in some ways, put a muzzle on her, and that's not something she's
		willing to accept clearly. So, I think that's a good thing.
		So it seems like the independent way, I assume, I predict, is probably what she's going to be most happy with.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		Well, Andy, we were kids when we started this thing, and here we are now.
		I appreciate your insight, as always.
		And everyone, go to andynow.locals.com, because he is an independent content creator, and you can see all of his controversial stuff.
		It was good seeing him, my friend.
		I'm going to finish up for a couple minutes without you.
		Thank you.
		I just want to reiterate on the local side of this thing very quickly.
		I think we've already illuminated enough sort of on the personal side and everything else.
		And you know what, maybe Kansas and I will cross paths again, right?
		I think it's been made very clear here.
		I'm not here to burn everything down.
		I think there are ways to have touch points on things.
		I may not like some of the behavior, whether it was the personal stuff
		of changing phone numbers, whatever.
		It just doesn't even matter.
		I just want to be very clear on the locals front.
		We created Locals because I wanted to be independent.
		I knew that my days on YouTube could just come to an end like that, or that Twitter could kick me off, at least the old regime at Twitter before Elon, or whatever else it might be.
		And we built it for me, and after a few months we were like, hot damn, you know, some other people might like this.
		So I guess this is just another part of a very strange story, I suppose, that has become My career or my life in a way, that after all of this, after sitting, like if you would have told me when I was sitting down with that girl Red Pill Black eight years ago, or then with Ben Shapiro then, that they would have worked together, they would have had a blowout, I would have gone independent, created this thing, she would have then joined this thing, gone independent, like who knows?
		Ironically, Locals was founded by me.
		I'm Jewish and my Israeli brother-in-law.
		But, you know, it's okay.
		It's okay.
		We believe in free speech.
		It's just fine.
		With all that being said, I hope you will join us on our Locals, which is ReubenReport.Locals.com, and keep this show independent.
		And we do a post-game show, which we'll do in about 30 seconds.
		We do it every day after the show.
		You get our ad-free stuff and early stuff, and that's how I really communicate with you.
		And I would say more broadly than anything else, I don't want to be there are so many forces right now trying to burn everything down, whether it's our borders, our basic understanding of biology and reality, our history, all of those things.
		And I know that there is just like there's a certain set of people that just want to kind of energy chase everything.
		And I was even a little hesitant to do this show the way we did it today, because I don't want to be that type of thing.
		I don't want to do things just for clicks and all that stuff.
		We've got to get out of this.
		Like, we literally have to get out of this descent to hell that we are all on, because we are destroying our country.
		Like, we see it all happening in front of us.
		And I think we have much bigger fish to fry than, say, what divides Ben Shapiro and Candace Owens, right?
		They largely believe in the same things.
		Things got messy.
		There are emotions involved when there's, I don't know, beheadings and mass murder.
		And are Jews a little more sensitive to genocide?
		Yeah, perhaps.
		History might dictate that.
		So regardless of what side you're on, whether you're watching this and you're going, And this or I'm more with Ben or anything else.
		Like we have a much bigger problem on the horizon, which are all the problems that are literally coming to our doorsteps that we talk about on this show every day.
		And if I can do anything to kind of glue that stuff back together, that is going to be my intention.
		I hope that it will be your intention.
		We don't have a cold close for you today because we switch this up all on the fly, but in about 30 seconds, RubinReport.Locals.com.

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