May 23, 2021 - Rubin Report - Dave Rubin
01:14:35
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| Speaker | Time | Text |
|---|---|---|
| I think what we're seeing for the first time in American history, since America has become like a worldwide cultural institution starting like the early 1900s to some extent, is you're having creative types Fleeing these liberal, you know, currently democratic areas like LA, New York, and everyone's moving to red states, to Austin, to Miami, and a few others. | ||
| This has never happened before where the creativity goes to the Republican Party. | ||
| And I don't see how you reverse that trend. | ||
|
unidentified
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[music] | |
| All right, I'm Dave Rubin and we're doing something a little different today. | ||
| I am live in studio with my guest who is just outside. | ||
| I have not seen him yet, but I have been told that he is wearing a tiny mask due to proper safety protocols related to COVID. | ||
| Here he is, Michael. | ||
| (laughs) | ||
|
unidentified
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Michael Malice, welcome to the room. | |
| Good to see you. | ||
| It's good to see you again. | ||
| Can I feel your face? | ||
|
unidentified
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Yes, feel my face. | |
| This is very exciting. | ||
| I didn't know what you were going to be doing today. | ||
| You told me you had something in store for me. | ||
| It's good to see you. | ||
| I wish I could say the same. | ||
| But I can't, honestly. | ||
| First off, I love the suit, the color is great, the shirt's nice, tie, the whole shebang. | ||
| Where did you get this little face getup? | ||
| I know you've been, COVID's very serious and you've been very serious about it. | ||
| You didn't even praise the shoes. | ||
| No, your shoes, the whole thing is- These are seal leather from the seventies. | ||
| Is that right? | ||
| When you could get seal leather. | ||
| That's right. | ||
| Yeah, that's very impressive. | ||
| Not like nowadays. | ||
| No, no, no, you can't get it. | ||
| You have to get on the black market now. | ||
| I have a feeling we're going to do the entire interview this way. | ||
| Well, of course. | ||
| We can't joke around. | ||
| This is Playtimes. | ||
| I don't want to kill your grandma. | ||
| No, thank you. | ||
| They're both dead. | ||
| Well, I don't want to kill her again. | ||
| Already, yeah. | ||
| So you've been walking around like this, I assume, wandering through L.A. | ||
| with your... | ||
| I have a little cane and one of those dogs, and I fit right in. | ||
| Now, here's what I want to ask you. | ||
| One of the things that I've seen when I'm walking around L.A. | ||
| I'm from New York, as you know. | ||
| You're a Brooklyn guy. | ||
| I've lived there all my life. | ||
| And now I'm at the point where I'm joined the chorus of... Well, let me take a step back. | ||
| As a New Yorker, you're always defending New York at its worst, right? | ||
| When people attack it for being filthy, for being crowd, or for people being rude. | ||
| All my life, I've said, you just don't get it. | ||
| You don't understand. | ||
| Or, That's part of what makes New Yorkers tough. | ||
| We can survive it, you can't. | ||
| And only in the last year with COVID and what Mayor de Blasio, Governor Cuomo have done, have I come around to, I was wrong and these people are right. | ||
| What they've done to New York City, the crown jewel of America, one of the great cities of all time, is unforgivable and unacceptable. | ||
| And there's no possibility, in my opinion, of things getting better. | ||
| Ever? | ||
| You think they can never get better? | ||
| In the medium term. | ||
| There's no mechanism for it to get better. | ||
| If I'm a young person and I want to make a store that sells artisanal socks, cheeses, I'm a young restaurateur, I want to open up a cool new restaurant, why would I go into New York City now? | ||
| Where every single regulation is against me, where I'm being told constantly, maybe not explicitly, but implicitly, we don't want you here. | ||
| You're not welcome. | ||
| New York is not open for business. | ||
| And we're just going to shut you down at the drop of a hat. | ||
| And I feel as if LA is kind of similar in that vein, that it's going to get worse because there's no mechanism for it to get better. | ||
| I'm curious to hear your thoughts on that. | ||
| Yeah, well, as you know, I think L.A. | ||
| is an absolute disaster, and I've only been to New York once since... I can't believe I'm talking to you in this thing. | ||
| This is really... You look good. | ||
| This is actually the best you've looked, honestly. | ||
| Well, of course, you have to see my hideous face. | ||
| No, I've only been to New York once since this whole thing happened. | ||
| I was in Midtown Manhattan because I was doing the Gutfeld Show at Fox, and it was scary. | ||
| It felt like I Am Legend. | ||
| There were no business people out. | ||
| There were only people out walking alone with masks and hats, and it was kind of cold, so jackets, and everyone looks kind of shady, and there's cops and a lot of barricades and all that stuff, and it's like... | ||
| How does this ever come back? | ||
| And here, I mean, you know, the main, I don't wanna say exactly where we are, but the main drag here, still a ton of boarded up stuff. | ||
| What mom and pop shop? | ||
| Forget young people. | ||
| You said young people. | ||
| What person that had their business closed in the last year that is experienced, maybe even has a little money, could be like, yeah, let's do it again. | ||
| Let's do it again so Newsom can shut us down next month when we have the climate lockdowns or COVID too, or give me something better than that. | ||
| The only possibility of things getting better, I tweeted this week, if Caitlyn Jenner runs on a campaign of hitting and running Governor Newsom, I think she would get elected in a landslide. | ||
| But here's what people don't appreciate. | ||
| They thought one day Detroit could never go anywhere. | ||
| Not only was Detroit Motor City, the home of the automobile industry, the music coming out of Detroit still resonates decades later, still legendary decades later. | ||
| Now Detroit is a bombed out shelter, a hole in the ground of what it used to be. | ||
| Hollywood, in my view, is running on fumes, on inertia of the golden age. | ||
| You go to LA, every pretty girl, every hunk from their hometown, as you did, comes to Los Angeles to make their name, to make their mark. | ||
| And now the movie industry doesn't have that cachet. | ||
| It's not like the place you have to be anymore, because thanks to the internet, there's so many more venues for young filmmakers, especially internationally, to, on a small budget, create and innovate something amazing. | ||
| Parasite, you know, which came out of South Korea, won the Academy Award. | ||
| There's such a hunger It's not even a right or left wing thing. | ||
| There's such a hunger for new voices, new creativity, but Hollywood and these media establishment entities are so corporate that whether you're reading a comic book Or you're reading about the Middle Ages, or you're reading about a documentary. | ||
| The messaging, the culture, the punchlines are all going to be the same. | ||
| So why would you come here, where you can hang up your shingle and be a filmmaker and be as opposed to Hollywood, and you're going to have an edge that way? | ||
| We're going out to dinner after this. | ||
| Are you going to be dressed like this? | ||
| Well, sure. | ||
| How are you going to eat? | ||
| How are you going to eat? | ||
| Well, I mean, I'm on a cut. | ||
| I'm going to be doing an underwear ad, so... | ||
| Are you shocked? | ||
| So look, you live in Brooklyn. | ||
| I was born in Brooklyn and I've only lived in New York and now LA. | ||
| You're a New Yorker, a true New Yorker. | ||
| Are you shocked how quickly everybody folded and that still now people, I assume in Brooklyn, are wandering around with masks outdoors and the dingbats that I'm walking by over here? | ||
| I mean, to tell you what a level of New Yorker I am in the audience, I don't know how to drive. | ||
| So I'm going to have to learn how to drive. | ||
| That's a true New Yorker. | ||
| That's the true New York. | ||
| This is what I'm shocked about. | ||
| I am shocked to what level Americans who have prided themselves on their sense of defiance, who in 2016 had an opportunity to vote for someone, in large part to just give the finger to the corporate press, how solidly they folded in the wake of these lockdowns and were subservient. | ||
| And what's even worse, and this is where it gets from the point of, okay, maybe you're a little bit weak, maybe you're a little bit fearful. | ||
| I can wrap my head around that. | ||
| I'm not a particular tough guy. | ||
| But when you see things like in Canada, There was a woman who tweeted, I'm sure you saw this, I'm sure many people saw this. | ||
| There was, I think it was Ontario, where the message went out that your children should be quarantined in a room in your home for two weeks. | ||
| And when I went after this, people couldn't even believe it. | ||
| They assumed I meant just being locked in your house with your family, which isn't ideal, but it's hardly a nightmare. | ||
| And the woman was tweeting that it was heartbreaking for her to hear her child banging on the door saying, mommy, I'm lonely or mommy, whatever it was, I'm scared. | ||
| And I'm thinking to myself, I don't care what your political persuasion is. | ||
| If you or I or virtually anyone listening to this, if you're like at a mall and there's a child who's lost and scared, If they're not ugly, you stop and you're like, what's wrong? | ||
| How can I help you? | ||
| Let's find your mom and dad. | ||
| Let's keep you entertained and calm until mom and dad get here. | ||
| This is just humanity 101. | ||
| And I say this as someone without any facial features. | ||
| So to have people not only do this, But to post about it on social media, and not just, you would think that, I could even wrap my head around being like, oh yeah, I'm totally doing this, and at home being like, I don't care what the news says. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| I'm not gonna not hug my children. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| So, I'm an uncle now, I've got two nephews, I absolutely adore them, and if someone says, you know, lock them in a room for two weeks, we're not having a conversation. | ||
| That is you declaring war on my family. | ||
| So the twisted part, beyond what the mother's physically doing to the child, is the virtue signaling that she then sends the message out. | ||
| Oh, it's breaking my heart what I've had to do as I jailed my child. | ||
| What kind of mental collapse do you think we've really had as a society? | ||
| It seems almost complete to me. | ||
| I mean, there are some sane people. | ||
| Of course, there are some sane people. | ||
| But it seems like we have had just a cascading collapse at almost every level at this point. | ||
| I don't think it's a question of sanity or insanity. | ||
| There's a quote I use all the time from H.L. | ||
| Mencken. | ||
| If people don't know who he is, he was one of the great controversialists of the early 20th century. | ||
| He was a newspaper man when newspaper men were regarded correctly as basically one step above a sex worker or a drug dealer, just really just the dregs of society. | ||
| And his quote was, the average man does not want to be free He simply wants to be safe. | ||
| And I think a lot of what you're seeing, what you refer to as the virtue signaling things on social media, the exchange, the bargain is, I will do what you, the people on the screens, corporate America, the politicians tell me. | ||
| And in exchange, you are going to tell me that I don't have to worry about anything. | ||
| I don't think of anything. | ||
| I need responsibility. | ||
| I'm just going to follow orders and be taken care of. | ||
| And what drove them crazy to some extent about Trump is that they, in a very literal sense, didn't know what to do other than freak out. | ||
| They weren't being given that kind of direct guidance from the screens that they coveted so much under Obama or even under George W. Bush. | ||
| I tweeted this morning a quote that you often put out there, which is that we didn't deserve Trump, or we don't deserve Trump. | ||
| We do not deserve him, yes. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Do you miss him? | ||
| How much do you miss him? | ||
| You know what's really sad about President Trump is that he sends out these press releases that are basically tweets attacking people. | ||
| Many in the Republican Party especially seem to be his targets, especially Liz Cheney, who I will remind everyone wants to kill your children. | ||
|
unidentified
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I'm not even kidding, this woman- And her dad killed a lot of other people's children. | |
| Absolutely. | ||
| Although you have to admit, you really are kind of like a baller if you shoot someone in the face and they apologize to you. | ||
| I gotta give Dick Cheney credit for that. | ||
| Google it if you don't know what he's talking about. | ||
| I'm sorry, I lost my train of thought. | ||
| What was the question again? | ||
| Well, Trump, like, do you miss him, and where are we going with him? | ||
| Right, so Trump has been sending out these press releases, and you're just imagining, instead of him having his BlackBerry or whatever he uses to send out these tweets, he's standing in front of a fax machine, you know, age 70 or whatever, feeding these press releases. | ||
| And they're hilarious, but it's just not the same. | ||
| What I found really sick, and I think many people in the Democratic Party as well, I think 49 attorneys general have joined inside this lawsuit, is the Facebook policy of We're not going to allow President Trump's voice to appear on this site. | ||
| Now, if it is your belief that President Trump incited the worst attack on American soil since 9-11, and let's put things in perspective, AOC had to see a cop for five minutes. | ||
| I mean, my God, these people are still in therapy, because someone put up their feet on Nancy Pelosi's desk. | ||
| Alice, the insurrectionists forgot to bring weapons. | ||
| Nobody had a gun, and the only person who got shot was one of them, who happened to formerly be in the Marines. | ||
| In the most armed country, or certainly one of the most armed countries. | ||
| Forgot to bring the guns! | ||
| In the most armed countries in the world. | ||
| So it's kind of just amazing how fragile I think these elites have in a center control power and how easily that balloon has been burst. | ||
| So how much of that, and the sort of hysteria now where nothing makes sense, and Biden obviously has dementia, and the whole system is just like every, even today, literally an hour before we're taping this, I heard Biden is gonna build part of the wall. | ||
| It's like everything is just an epic amount of bullshit, and it's becoming, I think, harder and harder for the average person. | ||
| Maybe they wanna break, they either wanna break everybody, or they want everyone to give up, maybe that's the same thing, or they want everyone to know which way is up, What do you think? | ||
| I mean, is it a systemic, systemic, are they systemically just trying to break our spirit? | ||
| Is that really what's happening? | ||
| Well, I think a large part of what's kind of the message is that their memory lasts like six months. | ||
| It's really kind of bizarre. | ||
| I'm sure you and I and many other people are not alone in the fact that Jimmy Kimmel has like George W. Bush on Where, like, a few years ago, they'd be talking that he's a war criminal, this guy's literally the worst president. | ||
| I mean, and now, you know, he's just their pal. | ||
| The same people who think President Trump was Hitler, right, and is fascist, are regarding Liz Cheney, the imperialist warmonger, as a responsible, sane person. | ||
| There's this bizarre detachment from reality, but that's a good measure of knowing | ||
| if your process is working. | ||
| It's much easier to train a smart dog than a dumb dog. | ||
| So if you see all these educated, not unintelligent people, parting the same message, | ||
| you know that your process of programming them has been working. | ||
| And this has been going on for over 100 years. | ||
| You had books by Walter Lippman, Bernays is another one. | ||
| And the question was, and this speaks to like the early days of mass media, | ||
| how do we, the elites, who have an earned right to rule and to create order out of chaos | ||
| through our regulation and control, how do we manufacture consent? | ||
| And Noam Chomsky, who's a fellow anarchist of mine, had a book on this subject. | ||
| And his reaction was, the best way to do this is to have strictly limited area of debate, but strong disagreement within that area. | ||
| So whereas you and I or somebody else might say, let's have the debate range between one and 10, They'll have it between six and seven. | ||
| Well, there's infinite numbers between six and seven, six and a half, 6.7, and have everyone argue and think you can't get outside this very strictly limited thing. | ||
| And you see all the time how the language for heretic changes. | ||
| It's racist. | ||
| It's insurrectionist. | ||
| It's white supremacist. | ||
| It's QAnon. | ||
| More people on the left talk about QAnon than I've ever seen on social media coming from the right. | ||
| I've told this a couple times on the show, but I went to a Trump rally in Beverly Hills, I went to a few of them, and at one rally, there was one woman who was into Q that came up, you know, everyone knows me there, they all come up to me, everyone says nice things, this woman comes up to me, she goes, Dave, what do you think about Q, blah, blah, blah, and I was like, honestly, I've never talked about it on the show, I haven't paid any attention to it, I don't know anything, and she got very pissed at me, because she was a Q person, she grabbed a bullhorn and started screaming that Dave Rubin's here and he doesn't believe in Q, and everyone walked away from her, and everybody was like, Dave, what do you think of that crazy woman? | ||
| And it's like, that's what CNN needs. | ||
| They need that crazy woman. | ||
| Yeah, and it's, I, Justin Amash, who's a former congressman, I'm sure you've probably talked to him at some point, he had me speak to a class that he was teaching or lecturing at at the University of Chicago, and the first thing I said to him is, my goal today is to make you regret this. | ||
| And I was talking about public education, one of the students went on Twitter, and the point being that the purpose of public education isn't to educate children, it's, in their own words, to create better citizens. | ||
| What that means is to break young spirits and make them subservient and obedient. | ||
| And the girl immediately said, how can you be talking about this conspiracy? | ||
| This word is used, I never said conspiracy. | ||
| This is something that, is there a conspiracy among pro-life people to eliminate abortions? | ||
| Is there a conspiracy among businesses to get tax cuts and regulatory cuts for their industry or to increase regulation to keep competition out? | ||
| But they just throw out this word to mean any kind of organization that's deleterious to their interests. | ||
| And it's a mechanism to forestall any kind of future debate and discussion. | ||
| And I gotta say, I'm very, very hopeful for the future of this country | ||
| because there is an increasing amount of recognition on all sides of the political spectrum | ||
| that political discourse and discussion are becoming close to impossible. | ||
| No one believes each other, no one trusts each other's motives. | ||
| And in my view, with very, very, very good reason. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| You're giving me a lot, Malice, I can't even see your beautiful face. | ||
| I don't have one. | ||
| You're just the faceless political operative now. | ||
| I'm an NPC, yeah. | ||
| You're a complete NPC. | ||
| You could have dressed up as the NPC, just full-on gray. | ||
| I'm too much of a blue check to ever be an NPC. | ||
| A little inside baseball lingo for people. | ||
| I got it, I got it. | ||
| Let's just back up though to the mask thing for a second, because I'm still seeing people wearing masks out here. | ||
| And it seems to me that they've triggered this fear thing in people that they're going to always do this. | ||
| They're going to always do this. | ||
| Where years ago you'd go to the airport and you'd see Asian people wearing masks and you were like, oh, are they sick? | ||
| Or are they protecting us from being sick? | ||
| Or what's going on here? | ||
| Like they've now just trained us to do all these things. | ||
| And we've broken down the basic social fabric. | ||
| You go to a store, you barely, you know, you're wearing a mask, they're wearing a mask. | ||
| You barely look at the cashier in the eye. | ||
| We don't go to movie theaters. | ||
| Right. | ||
| anymore that we've broke down all of the stuff. | ||
| You don't go to a bar and sit at a bar. | ||
| I used to love just sitting at a bar and getting a drink and talking to somebody or talking to the bartender. | ||
| They've broken all of that. | ||
| And that's gonna have all sorts of repercussions that we probably can't even imagine at this point. | ||
| My buddy, Tom Woods, I did a cartoon with you. | ||
| Yeah, I love that. | ||
| In a second, like he made the point, he's a dad. | ||
| He's got, I think, five daughters. | ||
| He made the point, what about three-year-old children or four-year-old children? | ||
| What about dogs? | ||
| To live in a society where you can't see people smiling at you, this is something that has profound and severe long-term psychological consequences. | ||
| A lot of times people who are holier-than-thou, smarter than everybody else, urban elites, make fun of religious people. | ||
| But when you're four or five years old, you're basically trained to think that there are these invisible demons everywhere they go outside. | ||
| And without this magical piece of fabric in front of your face, you're one day away from killing your grandparents. | ||
| This is not a healthy psychological message to tell children that you should be afraid of leaving the house. | ||
| What about how they've butchered science? | ||
| I mean, there's almost nothing, even me. | ||
| I mean, I'm fairly well-read. | ||
| I talk to some interesting people. | ||
| I'm pretty much completely skeptical of anyone that says anything about science. | ||
| You say the word science, and I'm like, what are you talking about? | ||
| I mean, that Fauci in effect has destroyed the complete ability for anyone to believe anything, at least. | ||
| Well, I mean, it's even broader than that, because we're being told every five years we have 10 years to save the planet. | ||
| And the only way to save it is to basically destroy all industry. | ||
| And even if that happens, we're still not going to save it anyway, but we should still do it for some, you know, dubious purpose. | ||
| So the goalposts keep changing. | ||
| And I think I've mentioned this previously on the show. | ||
| I know I've spoken of it before. | ||
| This goes back to the early days of progressivism and Woodrow Wilson, because one of the things | ||
| that happened during the Great War was this was the big, if I can, pardon my French, progressive wet dream, | ||
| which is we're gonna have Washington as this super state governing every single aspect of our country, | ||
| of our economy, of our culture. | ||
| Now, they had an excuse. | ||
| It was the Great War. | ||
| This is World War, everyone's involved, but this was a great dress rehearsal | ||
| for the Great Depression and New Deal, because they can say, look, 15 years ago, | ||
| you guys all did this. | ||
| You guys handed over all your authority to the state, to Washington. | ||
| This is a bigger crisis than the Great War, and that's actually true. | ||
| Like, in terms of which is a bigger threat to America, the Great Depression or the Hun, it was certainly the Great Depression. | ||
| And, you know, I tweeted this out, I think, a year ago. | ||
| Some very, like it or not, wrongly or rightly, whatever the science is, some very, very bad people Right, so what do you think comes after this? | ||
| about how much people will put up with these lockdowns and they could use that information in the future. | ||
| And they're not gonna use it for nice things. | ||
| Right, so what do you think comes after this? | ||
| You've had a pretty good track record on projecting all of this. | ||
| And I think you have a good sense of the general weather. | ||
| Yeah, one of the things I am, I'm very optimistic about the future, | ||
| as I said earlier in the show and in general. | ||
| And when I'm optimistic, I think optimism has to be based on data. | ||
| It's not just like everything's going to be fine. | ||
| That is not the case. | ||
| There's many cases where things are not fine or they're only fine after a very long period of time. | ||
| One of the things I am shocked and delighted by is how many people on the right, especially conservatives, have seen the cops for what they are. | ||
| As you know, I'm an anarchist. | ||
| I could not have a worse opinion of the police. | ||
| But they are understanding that the police are not their friends. | ||
| The police will follow any law that is being passed. | ||
| And when these conservatives start defending the police, I ask them, how much money Would it take for Gretchen Whitmer to force you to lock an old person in their home? | ||
| How much money would it take for Andrew Cuomo to tell you to keep someone away from their dying mother in a hospital? | ||
| It's a question of conscience. | ||
| If you're going to just follow orders, if you're going to waive the basic element of what separates us from the lower animals, this sense of right and wrong, And we see it in city after city after city. | ||
| The police stand down and the only people who are punished are those who have guns or those who are trying to defend themselves or their communities. | ||
| In fact, we saw, I believe it was in Portland, when the Attorney General Barr sent in federal troops to guard the courthouse. | ||
| He was the one who was hauled before Congress and having to explain himself. | ||
| How dare you send in troops to defend federal property from being destroyed? | ||
| It's a complete Kafkaesque upside down world. | ||
| So how much damage has to happen to these cities before something turns around, either through the people or through better governance, I suppose? | ||
| I know that's not really your thing, but like, does Portland have to just completely become ground zero? | ||
| Does Seattle have to collapse? | ||
| Does New York City? | ||
| Does LA, San Francisco? | ||
| Like, what actually do you think has to happen at the human level that gets people going, okay, we gotta turn this around? | ||
| Or does everyone just have to flee the cities? | ||
| I think what we're seeing for the first time in American history, since America has become like a worldwide cultural institution starting like the early 1900s to some extent, is you're having creative types fleeing these liberal, currently democratic areas like L.A. | ||
| and New York, and everyone's moving to red states, to Austin, to Miami, and a few others. | ||
| This has never happened before, where the creativity goes to the Republican Party. | ||
| And I don't see how you reverse that trend. | ||
| The question's gonna be, how did L.A. | ||
| get destroyed, to quote Hemingway, two ways, gradually and then suddenly? | ||
| I don't see a mechanism or even a desire, because when people complain in these cities about how hard it is, Cuomo is a great example of this. | ||
| There was a press conference during this whole COVID thing, and he was asked, like, you know, how are you, you know, you're destroying these small businesses. | ||
| And very flippantly, he was like, well, if I have to choose between a lot of people dying and a lot of businesses going out of business, it's not an easy choice, but it's also in one sense, not a hard choice. | ||
| So there's not even like a sense of, Hand-wringing, what have we done? | ||
| What has the cost been? | ||
| Because it's very useful for the corporate media to not speak about trade-offs. | ||
| Thomas Sowell, who I adore, and you're obviously a huge fan, talks about, instead of thinking about good or bad, At what costs and compared to what? | ||
| To talk about costs and benefits. | ||
| But they don't want to think about costs and benefits. | ||
| They don't want to think, OK, this is a good thing, but it's expensive or this will help this group, but it's hurting these 10 other groups. | ||
| It's more like it's the right thing to do. | ||
| Don't ask any questions. | ||
| And like if something is the right thing to do in the short term, that's certainly a possibility. | ||
| What are going to be the long term costs and how do we fix it? | ||
| They were tripping over themselves in 2008 to bail out the banks. | ||
| And now every little business that I loved in New York, stores have been around since the 70s, the 50s. | ||
| They're boarded up. | ||
| The signs are still there because they were proud. | ||
| This is a family institution. | ||
| They're gone and they're never coming back. | ||
| And no one cares. | ||
| Do we have to jail some of these people? | ||
| I mean, is that like the end that basically Cuomo and Whitmer and Newsom that it's very obvious | ||
| there was no science behind the lockdowns. | ||
| They decided to destroy millions of lives. | ||
| Kill the elderly. | ||
| I think that literally kill the elderly in Cuomo's case and probably in Whitmer's case. | ||
| No, not probably. | ||
| Let's talk about that video. | ||
| I'm sorry to interrupt you, but that video went viral. | ||
| There was this kid, I think he was 17, 18, 19, was in a nursing home and was beating up elderly people in their beds and posting it on social media. | ||
| This went viral. | ||
| Oh, was that in Michigan? | ||
| I know what you're talking about. | ||
| It was Michigan, yes. | ||
| Okay, okay. | ||
| He was in those homes because by law, it was mandated they're gonna be quarantining them in these locations. | ||
| So it's not maybe, she was killing I'm sure you saw this on Twitter. | ||
| If you go to governors2gitmo.com, I've got the t-shirts. | ||
| That's my answer to this problem. | ||
| Right, but really- - But just one more thing, I'm sorry to interrupt you. | ||
| It's not going to change until politicians have consequences | ||
| on a personal level for their malfeasance and depravity. | ||
| I don't know what that looks like, but it's certainly more than them getting voted | ||
| This cannot continue, and I think they are pushing America in a very dangerous direction. | ||
| Brinksmanship is something that very rarely has a happy ending. | ||
| Well, it's like every day now in California, Newsom's coming out and we're giving you stuff, more money for you guys. | ||
| And it's like, wait a minute, how do progressives suddenly think giving us money is good? | ||
| I thought that taxes are bad, but it's all the tax money you took from us in the first place. | ||
| I mean, I know none of it really makes any sense, but okay, if voting amounts not enough, I mean, really, what do you think either the jailing or like, what are we gonna? | ||
| Send them to the Phantom Zone? | ||
| What are we gonna do with these people? | ||
| I'm okay with the Phantom Zone, but really, what's the real thing? | ||
| Because these people deserve none of our respect, or attention, or money, or power, or anything. | ||
| I think something that's very, you just hit the nail on the head. | ||
| One of the things that President Trump did very, very well, and there's a lot of things he didn't do so well, is he demonstrated that these people should not be treated with respect, but be treated with open, brazen contempt. | ||
| If you are telling me That I cannot hug my child. | ||
| If you are telling me that I can't see my mother breathe her last breath in this hospital, this is not like, well, I've got one opinion, you've got another opinion, let's just kind of hash it out and agree disagree. | ||
| This is completely, in my view, beyond the pale. | ||
| And the time for conversation has ended. | ||
| And the thing is, the Republicans need to go on offense instead of constantly having to apologize and discuss the hard left's idea du jour. | ||
| Here's one example. | ||
| Everyone now in this country who's politically minded has an opinion on whether we should defund the cops, right? | ||
| Everyone talked about it. | ||
| Most people are against it, but everyone discussed it. | ||
| Why is no one discussing ending birthright citizenship My personal idea is to have a, using the Second Amendment and using the logic of Obamacare, make gun ownership mandatory. | ||
| The Second Amendment says a well-regulated militia, which means a militia of citizens who are regulated, who are informed and practiced in the use of their firearms, is necessary for free people. | ||
| So either you get a gun or you can't vote. | ||
| Things like this. | ||
| The New York Times is going to freak out. | ||
| The Washington Post is going to freak out. | ||
| Don Lemon is going to, you know, have a meltdown on air. | ||
| That's going to happen regardless. | ||
| Ann Coulter had this great quote where she says, attention Republicans, if the New York Times isn't calling you racist, you're losing. | ||
| For the record, for the record, huh? | ||
| Called me a white supremacist this week. | ||
| Pretty good. | ||
| Did they really? | ||
| Well, they asked Andrew Yang why he goes on white supremacist shows, in effect. | ||
| Me, they called it the Dave Rubin Show. | ||
| This is the Rubin Report. | ||
| I couldn't even get them to retract that. | ||
| I didn't even care about the white supremacy part. | ||
| I was like, ah, we've done that a million times already, but they got the name of the show wrong. | ||
| They wouldn't even fix that. | ||
| But you know what else is amazing? | ||
| So it's an honor. | ||
| It's also amazing that you would ask a politician, why would you want to promote your views On a place that has an audience. | ||
| It's really funny because on the one hand you have the Maxine Waters types and I do like her antagonism and aggression, I'm not going to lie. | ||
| But she's saying if you see someone from the Trump administration at the gasoline station, at the mall, you go up to them and you say you're not welcome here. | ||
| You would expect them to, if you are a white supremacist, if you're a homophobe, if you're an anti-Semite, all these things, which we know you are, to come here and be like, screw you, Dave Rubin, you're terrible, your ideas are horrible, you're this, you're that, and so on and so forth. | ||
| You want to take the fight to the enemy! | ||
| Malice, this is why I love you, Malice. | ||
| It's a great point. | ||
| It's a great point. | ||
| On one hand, they're saying, get in their faces, don't let them have an inch, blah, blah, blah. | ||
| And then on the other hand, they're saying, don't talk to them at all and pretend they don't exist. | ||
| And we saw a great example of this. | ||
| When Brian Stelter from CNN, he had a panel, and they were freaking out that venues like Tim Pool, like your show, Joe Rogan, several others, have bigger audiences than CNN, and people are getting the wrong information, by which they mean information they don't like, and what are we going to do about this? | ||
| So their agenda is basically, well, let's pretend the Dave's Rubin don't exist, the Tim's Pool don't exist. | ||
| became too hard, your audience is too big, your social media following is too big. | ||
| Now it's like, well, on an individual level, maybe we'll start from out of guests. | ||
| You have no shortage of people, idiots from Brooklyn, you know, dressing like question, | ||
| banging down your door to try to get on this show. | ||
| So that's not really gonna work, but it shows their desperation | ||
| and the fact they're running out of ideas. | ||
| So then what's after that? | ||
| Because I've been saying for a while, I mean, all of us have a limited window on social media. | ||
| I'm thrilled that I think you were the second guy on local, basically, and you're killing it on there. | ||
| But it seems to me that because of exactly what you just said there, that the jig is up, they've been exposed, everyone gets it. | ||
| They can't let us on YouTube and Twitter and Facebook much longer. | ||
| Like, it just can't, it's not tenable. | ||
| But I've always said there's going to have to be alternative sources for people and our culture has to bifurcate in order to go forward. | ||
| Back in the day, it was ABC, NBC, CBS. | ||
| Now, in terms of news, there's literally thousands of sources. | ||
| Some of them are completely wrong and misinformation and kooky. | ||
| Some of them, it's a spectrum. | ||
| Some are, you know, objective and spot on the money. | ||
| The only way the New York Times can be the New York Times in terms of stature is if it has close to monopoly on the microphone. | ||
| And I don't see how, like Humpty Dumpty, once that egg is shattered, how you put it back together again. | ||
| We're never going to be again as a country. | ||
| And it's not even in terms of the news. | ||
| Look at like the MASH finale. | ||
| For kids, there was a show called MASH, which is about the Korean War. | ||
| What was the number? | ||
| What was the number on the finale? | ||
| 60 million eggs. | ||
|
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But even the Super Bowl. | |
| Yeah. | ||
| This was something that everyone, air quotes, in America is watching. | ||
| You can't get that together in terms of the New York Times or even CBS, ABC, NBC, NBC News anymore. | ||
| Our country has become too split up. | ||
| And that choice is the basis of liberalism. | ||
| That's what liberalism means. | ||
| You have as many options and you're free to choose as you wish. | ||
| But this is a big threat because their entire worldview is based on their depravity and malfeasance. | ||
| They're more upset That someone had their feet up on Nancy Pelosi's desk, that many people in the elites were possibly engaging in statutory rape with Jeffrey Epstein, and ABC News knew about this and didn't inform the authorities. | ||
| But the guy had his feet up, he was wearing his shoes, he took a picture, I mean... Were they steel leather? | ||
| They were not as fancy as your shoes, that's for sure. | ||
| So at what point do you think we've crossed the Rubicon here? | ||
| Have we crossed the valley, let's say, where we should just start ignoring them? | ||
| I struggle with this all the time. | ||
|
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No. | |
| Okay, go ahead. | ||
| The battle is won. | ||
| When the average American regards a corporate journalist exactly as they regard a tobacco executive. | ||
| Now, whenever I say this, some midwit has to get on Twitter and say, the tobacco executive's much better. | ||
| Yeah, I said regards. | ||
| And that is the next step. | ||
| You have to realize I'm not Catholic, you're not Catholic. | ||
| I like the Pope. | ||
| Some of the Popes I like, some I don't like. | ||
| You can hear him out, but there's no reason for me to believe everything he says or to trust him to some exceptional degree. | ||
| So the thing is, there's no reason the same way to believe CNN, Fox, NBC. | ||
| These are corporate entities with an agenda. | ||
| And if you're at a point where Coca-Cola is telling their employees to be less racist, given Coca-Cola's extremely racist history, They sort of backed off this thing though, right? | ||
| Didn't they delete some of the diversity and inclusion stuff? | ||
| And that's the point. | ||
| Like now they are trying their shenanigans, but people are onto them. | ||
| And instead of trying to have this lively debate, it's like, we're not having this conversation. | ||
| This is just a mechanism for you to further your power. | ||
| And we're going to have to fight back because I am not going to bend the knee to your nonsense any longer, especially because constantly and explicitly you're coming for our children. | ||
| Do you think it's possible that they've awoken a real lion here, like a real beast? | ||
| And I mean that in the best sense that I just tweeted this out in the last couple hours. | ||
| Something about like we need rallies again. | ||
| Like the Trump rallies were so much joy, so much positivity, so much true diversity and all of that stuff. | ||
| And I'm not saying it has to be Trump doing it. | ||
| I personally wouldn't have a problem if it was Trump. | ||
| In effect, they've awoken something that we must get out there and show them that we're here, that that's the only way. | ||
| And they locked us in our houses to make sure we couldn't do it while they bowed at protesters. | ||
| Those rallies aren't granted for the simple reason that it's a symbol of defiance. | ||
| Everyone remembers how Governor Abbott of Texas, he rescinded some of these mandates. | ||
| Governor Newsom of California tweeted out that it was unacceptable, or I don't remember what term he used, but he was basically condemning it. | ||
| Nothing happened as a consequence and everyone pretended it didn't happen. | ||
| So if you have these big rallies, which they're gonna be described as white supremacist rallies, they're gonna describe it that way anyway, And this is showing people, we're not gonna stand six feet apart from each other and no one's going to die as a consequence. | ||
| We're going to be safe and so on and so forth. | ||
| That kind of element of defiance is useful because people in the middle, there's something called the bandwagon effect. | ||
| People in the middle who don't really have a political opinion one way or another, but basically, you know, all my life I'm a New Yorker, I'm not a sports fan. | ||
| People be like, Yankees or Mets. | ||
| I would say Mets because I like the blue and the orange better. | ||
| I literally have no other mechanism for choosing. | ||
| But if you have no mechanism for choosing, you're going to go to the people who are having fun. | ||
| You're going to go to the people who have the energy. | ||
| So if you have one group that's like, be miserable, never go to a concert, the other one's like, don't you want to have like rock and roll and listen to even Elvis? | ||
| It's like, yeah, I'm going to go to where the people who are having fun are. | ||
| And that's a big threat to their control. | ||
| So in many ways, this is what you would have wanted to happen a long time ago at some level, right? | ||
| That the right, the new right, to use the title of your book, that the new right would become the place that was creative and cool and there would be music and parties and fun and sex and all of those things that humans are supposed to do and all the left has is preening fake morality and hysteria and lunacy. | ||
| Well, I mean, I'm gonna be a little bit pedantic and apologize. | ||
| I wouldn't call it fake morality. | ||
| They really have a very strict puritanical morality, which... Well, I meant fake, meaning it's not moral in an objective sense. | ||
| No, it is moral in an objective sense, in the sense that, like, a morality, let's get my Yaron Brook hat on... Okay. | ||
| Morality in the Ayn Rand sense is basically a code of ethics or code of values which governs every aspect of your life. | ||
| Keeping kosher in the Jewish ethic is a good example of acting ethically. | ||
| Every choice you make with your food is guided by this ethical code. | ||
| And they have extended that to literally every aspect of your life. | ||
| Who you sleep with, What kind of food you eat, it's got to be ethical, local, so on and so forth. | ||
| How you dress, what shows you watch, who you interview on your own set. | ||
| It's just amazing to what extent, this is the other thing I point out, and I discussed this in my book, if you're talking about video games, sci-fi, fantasy, comic books, Places where people go to escape reality and escape the Earth and have this kind of sense of adventure, their morality and their worldview even permeates there. | ||
| There's nowhere on Earth, space, time, or the future where you can go to escape their edicts. | ||
| And at a certain point, many people are like, I don't want to live like this. | ||
| I want to judge my friends on are they going to be there for me when I have a tragedy or not who they voted for or whether they think Trump is Hitler as opposed to maybe they think he's just a buffoon. | ||
| How much further will they crack down then, right? | ||
| They're not gonna just give up. | ||
| Like, okay, so we start rallies again. | ||
| We're creating good stuff. | ||
| We're doing all the stuff that you would like to see happen. | ||
| And by the way, I do think it's happening, right? | ||
| It is happening, there's no doubt about it. | ||
| But they're not just gonna give up. | ||
| They're not just gonna walk away. | ||
| And even when Coke reverses slightly its diversity stuff, it's like, well, what are you really saying? | ||
| Yesterday, you were telling half your employees that they're racist. | ||
| Now you got exposed, so they're not? | ||
| I remember last year, I said, the riots are about 72 hours away from having corporate sponsorship. | ||
| And it was like two hours later, everyone's bending over backwards to endorse the civil unrest. | ||
| PlayStation, I literally turned on my PlayStation and it offered me a free Black Lives Matter background. | ||
| Right, but it's amazing to what it's... Right, so everything has to be permeated with this very specific... And it's not only like... It would be one thing if they had said, we want people to value Black Lives More. | ||
| It specifically just has to be this one slogan. | ||
| And this month, we're only caring about black people. | ||
| Next month, we're caring about this group. | ||
| Next month, we're caring about this group. | ||
| And if you're a poor white person and you're resentful, well, you had your turn. | ||
| You know, go home and suck it up. | ||
| So I don't think this is something that's going to be able to last much longer. | ||
| And I have to give credit to people on the left, people like James Carville, Van Jones and some others, where they're like, this is something that cannot long term sustain itself. | ||
| And Britain Of all places, I mean, talk about just in terms of a backward asshole. | ||
| They just had their local elections after having a new leader for labor, which is one of their two main parties, Sir Keir, and he was much more to the center than their previous leader, Jeremy Corbyn. | ||
| They had their off-year elections, and they were seeing their biggest losses since like World War II. | ||
| So if you're and you're seeing this also in Germany, the Social Democrats, which is historically the second biggest party in Germany, are now polling at like 11 or 12 percent. | ||
| So in country after country, this old coalition of the left being the party of the labor unions, the working man. | ||
| They now have such contempt for the working man, especially in America since Reagan. | ||
| When you had union workers who were voting Republican, they just threw themselves, they got thrown to the garbage as quickly as possible. | ||
| And this is what I think people on the right don't understand. | ||
| They don't care about Muslim immigrants, Mexican people at the border, transgender rights. | ||
| It's whatever group is of use at the moment to further their agenda. | ||
| And once that group is not behaving or acting in the way that they like, they're just swiftly discarded. | ||
| Here's a great example that's not even an identity politics group. | ||
| Everyone can look up and probably remembers they had these stopping bullying campaigns. | ||
| All the nerds getting shoved into lockers. | ||
| We need to put a stop to this. | ||
| This is terrible. | ||
| This is not who we are as a country. | ||
| True. | ||
| Then came Gamergate, and the nerds were the first ones to fight back. | ||
| The nerds fought back. | ||
| Do you think it's all really connected to that? | ||
| Yeah, the nerds fought back. | ||
| They were like, we just want to play video games. | ||
| We don't care about identity politics in Star Wars. | ||
| And all of the narrative now became that those people who play video games are not only racist, but are potential school shooters. | ||
| Two years ago, let's not bully them. | ||
| Now they're an existential threat to this country and the world. | ||
| Did it all start there? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| With the Gamergate thing? | ||
| That was the first time where you had a group that just wanted to mind their own business, and they realized... And the entire machine. | ||
| Yeah, they will not leave us alone. | ||
| We just want to sit at home, in our underwear, eating our Cheetos, with our headphones and our war station, playing this dopey game, and even in my basement where I have no friends, I still can't escape you and your clutches. | ||
| Whew, malice, malice. | ||
| We got a lot of stuff to fix. | ||
| Let's jump back for just a second because you said something about the Democrats not being, or in effect, the left not being the party of the working man, but they want $15 minimum wage. | ||
| Wouldn't that be the greatest thing for the working man? | ||
| Doesn't that mean they care about the working man, malice? | ||
| I'm smiling as I say this to you. | ||
| In terms of the minimum wage, I am one of the few people who are anarchists who are in favor of raising the minimum wage because I cannot handle dealing with cashiers. | ||
| All their job is is to input mistakes between me and the touchscreen. | ||
| And listen, if the minimum wage in effect Give people more money and doesn't hurt jobs. | ||
| I'm all for it. | ||
| But it really... But you know that's not true, right? | ||
| And the minimum wage is zero. | ||
| And it's always going to be zero. | ||
| No one ever expected that a minimum wage... One of the things you see these tropes on social media is that a minimum wage job can't pay for a one bedroom apartment. | ||
| Yeah, it's called minimum. | ||
| A minimum wage job should pay for the minimum size apartment. | ||
| That's just the logic to it. | ||
| And minimum wage jobs have never been designed for someone to provide for a family. | ||
| It's for people who are marginal. | ||
| It's people who are teenagers, people who are maybe getting out of prison or something, trying to get their feet on the ground, people who used to be homeless or unemployed, or people who really just are struggling and they're trying to make their way through night school or building up the resources in other capacities in terms of their career or their resume. | ||
| But can you give me the true anarchist version of just why the government has no right to tell you how much you have to pay somebody? | ||
| Give me like your pure anarchist 101 version. | ||
| You just did it. | ||
| I know I did it, but I was trying to be a good host and let you do it. | ||
| All government edicts have no authority whatsoever Just because a bunch of people in Philadelphia had a conspiracy and signed a piece of paper, the fact that that is going to have to have an impact between my relationship with you in terms of how much money I'm offering you for your services or your book or your shoes or anything like that, there's absolutely no role | ||
| for the state to get involved in a situation like that. | ||
| And it's the poor people who are always the first ones to be hurt. | ||
| And this is why corporate America loves the minimum wage. | ||
| I'm Walmart. | ||
| I'm Target. | ||
| I can afford to pay my workers at the very bottom more. | ||
| But that little store, where that one extra employee is the difference between having two people, mom and dad, and three, that's a 50% increase in terms of my productivity. | ||
| I'm the one who's going to be screwed. | ||
| Sort of like how the lockdowns allowed for Target to remain open, but the little mom and pop store that sells the same stuff as Target next door wasn't allowed to remain open by the orders of the Democrats? | ||
| We have seen a systemic assault on middle class businesses by corporate America, both In terms of them cheering on the literal physical destruction, in terms of looting and rioting and saying it's mostly peaceful. | ||
| Meanwhile, COVID, remember they were saying it was like 93% of these protests were peaceful? | ||
| Well, COVID has a 99% survival rate and we have to shut down the earth! | ||
|
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Science, math, come on! | |
| They say whatever is of use to them in that moment to further their power, and they will never apologize for being called out on their craft. | ||
| Here's another good example that transcends partisan political lines. | ||
| We were told in 2020, early 2020, that there was about to be a genocide of the Kurds in Syria, and that if we don't have American troops there tomorrow, boots on the ground, this is going to be another Holocaust. | ||
| We did not have boots on the ground. | ||
| The Kurds have not been exterminated as a race. | ||
| Trump got us out. | ||
| And no one who was arguing for killing American soldiers had any shame or consequences | ||
| for what they had been advocating. | ||
| Speaking of no shame and consequences, I think you went after him on Twitter, | ||
| so I will bring it up 'cause I had to do it too, even though he's been on my show. | ||
| But David Frum in the last couple days with everything going on in Israel and he starts going off on Trump. | ||
| Look at those Trump peace deals that didn't accomplish anything. | ||
| This is the man who literally wrote the axis of evil speech that lied us into the Iraq war. | ||
| Part of all of it is that they have no shame, right? | ||
| Like what do you think that is psychologically actually? | ||
| Is it just self-preservation? | ||
| It is a very sad thing to be closer to your coffin than to your prime as a man. | ||
| And it is a sad testament to the history of this country, how we treated women, how we treated minorities, how we treated gay people, that all the appropriate words to describe David Frum have misogynist or homophobic context. | ||
| You're good, Malice, you're good. | ||
| Let's back up to something you said earlier. | ||
| You mentioned Van Jones and who was the other one? | ||
| James Carville. | ||
| As sort of the Democrats or lefties who are kind of trying to do something from the inside. | ||
| You know a little bit of the history of Dave Rubin. | ||
| I tried it as a lefty. | ||
| I wrote a book defending liberalism and how it's different than leftism. | ||
| I don't know why I left the left guy. | ||
| You think they have any chance? | ||
| Like what do you make of those people trying to do that thing at this point? | ||
| Let me say something that's going to make some conservatives very upset. | ||
| Corporate Democrats have been a lot better and stronger at defeating the hard left in 2020 than the Republicans were. | ||
| Joe Biden's nomination was the Democratic Party getting on the phones with Amy Klobuchar, with Kamala Harris, with Pete Buttigieg, saying Biden's the nominee, you're folding your campaign today, you're getting on a plane today, you're endorsing Biden, and he got the nomination. | ||
| Wait, wait, can I pause you for one second? | ||
| So just to be clear, so they all did that the day before Super Tuesday, so that the next day, in effect, that Tuesday, Biden would basically get the nominee. | ||
| Although he has turned out to be far worse, you would agree, right? | ||
| Then who? | ||
| How much worse could this be if Bernie was in charge right now? | ||
| I think you could argue it's actually worse, because it came in cloaked, as opposed to being obvious what it was. | ||
| That's a very interesting conversation to have, and you could easily, in my view... No, I'm doing an interview show. | ||
| No, but I'm saying I can easily argue for both sides. | ||
| It's very nuanced. | ||
| Do you want someone who is honest and an ideologue, or is it easier to get over if you're kind of passing as being in the middle? | ||
| How much of this is Biden's ideas? | ||
| How much of it is the ideas of the people behind him? | ||
| I find it hilarious. | ||
| that the leaders of Black Lives Matter publicly said, Biden and Kamala Harris won't even take our calls. | ||
| And they hadn't even been inaugurated yet. | ||
| It was just an amazing thing to watch. | ||
| So this is, but the thing is, I think people on the right tend to regard | ||
| the Democratic Party and the left as a monolith. | ||
| It's the same people who would tell you that, I mean, if someone told you that Jeb Bush | ||
| is the same thing as Trump, is the same thing as Hitler, you're on the right, you're all Republicans, | ||
| it's just nonsensical. | ||
| And Van Jones, as you mentioned, is a good example. | ||
| He's a former communist, literal communist, but the commies really often have this red pill perspective because they understand how corporate politics work. | ||
| They understand the interrelationship between corporate America and the political process and how the little guys always want to get screwed. | ||
| So where do you think guys like them end up at this point? | ||
| What do you mean? | ||
| Where does a guy like Van Jones, like the guys that are still on the left that are trying to negotiate with the woke thing, trying to make sense of Biden, like, you know, the few that are still somewhat sane in the midst of this, where do you think they sort of end up? | ||
| Do they end up where I'm at? | ||
| There's a few, let me ask you a question, a segue, there's a few scenarios. | ||
| One is they win and they basically purge the party or marginalize these loons and have them just be in the garbage can, or- Okay, let's say that's not gonna happen. | ||
| Or they're driven out of the party, or they're the ones who are marginalized. | ||
| But this has been going on since the 90s at least. | ||
| The Clintons with the DLC, the Democratic Leadership Council, I believe it was called. | ||
| The idea was we're going to be the new moderate Democrats. | ||
| He did balance the budget against his will. | ||
| He did limit spending against his will. | ||
| Passed the ban on gay marriage, which is a conservative idea. | ||
| So, Bill Clinton, in many ways, was better at delivering ostensibly conservative ideas than many of the Republicans ever were. | ||
| So I think politics is often counterintuitive in terms of who's the vehicle who's going to deliver the goods that you want. | ||
| Richard Nixon brought about a laundry list of leftist wish dreams, including wage and price controls, which even Bernie Sanders isn't advocating for. | ||
| Right. | ||
| What about the, we talked a little bit about- Let me ask you that question. | ||
| You tell me, what is the process when you start out as James Carville, who I'm sure would have been somewhat close to your worldview at the time. | ||
| He's a savvy Democrat. | ||
| He's a practitioner. | ||
| He's a strategist. | ||
| But now, you know, you voted for Trump. | ||
| What were the steps if you sat down with Dave Rubin or Dave Rubin at that time to get you from there to voting for someone who you might have perceived as Hitler? | ||
| Well, I think the final step, I'll give you the final step first. | ||
| The final step for me of being okay with Trump is that I actually met the guy at Mar-a-Lago and that when he was introduced to David and I and realized that David was my husband and he said, gay, gay, I can't, and he slapped the table and stood up with this huge smile and shook our hands and thanked us for being there and then turned to Melania and said, you know, can you believe it? | ||
| These guys are gay. | ||
| Their only problem is they're too handsome. | ||
| It wasn't that he was complimenting me. | ||
| It was that an illusion about him Here's a better example. | ||
| in front of my face in real time. | ||
| And it was like, well, wait a minute, if that, if I was still hung up on maybe he's anti-gay | ||
| or something, or that a lot of people still walk around thinking that Trump's a racist, that Trump is truly racist. | ||
| The guy who was- - Here's a better example. | ||
| If you're a Nazi, his daughter converted to Judaism. | ||
| And I'm going to be very, very serious. | ||
| We're sitting here as two Jews. | ||
| To divorce Nazism from anti-Semitism is despicable. | ||
| And in any other context, people who are students of history realize this is very, very wrong to regard these as separate concepts and separate phenomenon. | ||
| They go hand in hand. | ||
| So to refer to someone as a Nazi when they welcome Jews into their own family, converted Jews, is really marginalizing the oppression of many people who are relatives of ours in the past. | ||
| And by the way, these are the same people who run around screaming about cultural appropriation all the time. | ||
| And they're doing actually the most, in some ways you could argue, the most horrific type of cultural appropriation. | ||
| But to answer your question, you know, I mean, it was a long slog for me, but it wasn't just waking up to ideas and reading Thomas Sowell and actually sitting down with him and meeting Trump and sitting down with him and then talking to guys like you and realizing when I sat down suddenly with Prager and with Shapiro And Glenn Beck, and all these people who, yeah, we kind of agreed to disagree on some stuff that, yes, I've shifted in their way at some level, obviously, but it was like, they were nicer, and more generous, and more lively. | ||
| Where the left, everyone's afraid of their shadow, and people turn on each other, and it's very unpleasant, and most of my friends on that side, actually, I've realized, aren't that great. | ||
| And I found this other thing that's very intellectually robust, and interesting, and fun. | ||
| And real. | ||
| So it's a long freaking slog, but I would say it's not just the political part. | ||
| It's both those parts together. | ||
| What were your concerns and were those concerns accurate? | ||
| Because if you become an apostate in any ideology, you're a big target because if we lose one, maybe this Martin Luther, right? | ||
| If we lose this guy, we might be losing a lot of other people we want to hold the line. | ||
| The signal gets out there. | ||
| Well, look, I mean, look, Candace walked away also. | ||
| I walked away plenty of people. | ||
| Now there's a whole walkaway movement. | ||
| But I mean, you've seen my Twitter responses, like the endless barrage of hate from the people who purport to be tolerant. | ||
| I mean, you know, and I've lost friends. | ||
| I've had problems with, there were family members who won't talk to me. | ||
| Is that true? | ||
| Right now? | ||
| Oh, yeah. | ||
| I have close family members that won't talk to me. | ||
| Like, you know, just the endless, the crazy type of, I'll give you one. | ||
| I had a lifelong friend who I met at a bar in New York City a couple of years ago. | ||
| We actually went to, we knew each other from childhood, went to college together, | ||
| studied political science together, played basketball together over the years. | ||
| We always did this. | ||
| This thing that we're doing, we always did this about everything, right? | ||
| I meet him at a bar. | ||
| It was obvious that our politics were going in different directions, but this was before I had said I was gonna vote for Trump. | ||
| And we get in, he's immediately just attacking me. | ||
| We hadn't seen each other in years. | ||
| He had just had a new kid, which I wanted to talk about. | ||
| I didn't wanna do politics. | ||
| He's just attacking me over and over and over again. | ||
| And finally I said to him, I said, do you think it's possible that I believe what I believe as much as you believe what you believe? | ||
|
unidentified
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And without hesitation, he said no. | |
| And I thought, that level of certitude is something that I want nothing to do with. | ||
| But also the sense that you can imagine someone saying this, and then as soon as the words come out of their mouth, you know like sometimes, like if I'm making fun of somebody, I'll go too far and I hear it, and they're like, whoa, I'm sorry Dave, I didn't, you know what I mean? | ||
| I didn't mean it that way, but no! | ||
| And you would catch yourself like, what have I become? | ||
| Now here's the other, I'm sorry Dave. | ||
| Well, no, I would just add one other thing, which is that when you shed all of those friends, look, I'd rather be hated for who I am than loved for who I'm not, and it becomes obvious. | ||
| It sounds like a cliché when you say it, but then it really is something that's real, and when you realize that you're standing up on your own two feet, and that you see the world in a certain way, and here I am, and people are going to hate me for it or love me for it or whatever, but it's better to be me than to be someone else to be liked. | ||
| Unconditional love means unconditional. | ||
| It does not mean conditioned on who you would prefer to have as president, which will have very little impact on your day-to-day life anyway. | ||
| Let me just ask you one more question, if I may, you know, being the guest in your show. | ||
| Can you compare to me Your thought process and your fears about coming out as gay on September 10th, 2001, and coming out as being right of center, because you're also in very different parts of your life. | ||
| You're younger here, you don't have the financial stability, you don't have the platform necessarily. | ||
| Here, you're older. | ||
| This was a million times harder. | ||
| It's not even close. | ||
| It's not even close. | ||
| Politically, I'm talking about, rather than coming out as gay. | ||
| I was 25 then. | ||
| Yes, I had internal tumult. | ||
| Some which, by the way, the ghosts of that lived with me at 44. | ||
| Like, that's just how life is. | ||
| But it was like an internal thing. | ||
| And by the way, when I started coming out to people, everybody reacted great. | ||
| There were one or two little family things. | ||
| You know, people were shocked. | ||
| I don't act gay. | ||
| That's what everyone kept telling me. | ||
| I don't act gay. | ||
| They don't really see me after 10 p.m., but you know what I mean? | ||
| Not that. | ||
| But in essence, it was all love and affirmation and great, be who you are and fantastic, this is amazing and wonderful. | ||
| This thing of doing this, it's an endless, where David now gets messages on Facebook | ||
| that he's married from friends of his saying that they can no longer be friends with him | ||
| because he's married to a Nazi or a lot of people were messaging him. | ||
| I mean, a sizable amount of people, former friends of his, you're married to a terrorist after the January 6th thing, | ||
| which obviously I had nothing to do with and I wasn't there and blah, blah, blah. | ||
| But that ongoing level of hate and to be here in LA. | ||
| where I know that, you know, I'm living in a city that's not congruent with my beliefs, and when I go out, you know, most of the people that say hi to me are nice, but you don't know what anyone else is thinking, and we also live in a time with weird, you know, anything goes politically, and you're allowed to smash people over the heads with bottles and throw Molotov cocktails. | ||
| It's like, that ain't fun. | ||
| So this has been way, way harder. | ||
| Way, way harder. | ||
| I would tell all the young people listening to this who are scared of coming out in one shot. | ||
| But it's better! | ||
| No, but I'll tell them, Because the concern is, and it's a realistic concern, if you come out as something, gay, republican, whatever it is, I'm going to lose a bunch of friends, right? | ||
| You want to lose friends. | ||
| It's better to be hungry. | ||
| And looking for your next meal or looking for peers who like you as you. | ||
| It's going to be tough in the medium term. | ||
| It's going to be very tough. | ||
| Then to be trapped in a cage where you're fed like a little pellet every day or trapped in a social group where if these people knew who you really were, they wouldn't like you or respect you. | ||
| You can live like that forever. | ||
| You are never going to be happy. | ||
| And most importantly, you are not going to be able to look at yourself in the mirror. | ||
| And having that capacity to be like, I am living true to my values and my friends like me, not despite them, but because of them, to me, that goes hand in hand with happiness, success, and self-esteem. | ||
| And when you're that kind of person who stands up strong and is like, this is what I think, this is who I am, that is very attractive in a business sense, in a romantic sense, and in a social sense. | ||
| Malice, are you saying that we should all stand up straight with our shoulders back? | ||
| Somebody said that. | ||
| Who said that? | ||
| Wasn't there some guy that was saying that for a while? | ||
| Well, not everybody. | ||
| Some people are weak. | ||
| Like I said earlier, they'd rather be safe than to be free. | ||
| But for most people, the people that I would like, listen to me. | ||
| What about the general idea that on this side of things, again, you wrote the book, it was called The New Right. | ||
| I'm on the back of the book. | ||
| Called you the Willy Wonka of politics. | ||
| One of your greatest accolades, I think. | ||
| I love that. | ||
| Can I tell you one thing in all seriousness? | ||
| Harvey P. Carr, the late comic book writer of American splendor fame, he wrote a book about me called Ego and Hubris. | ||
| It came out in 2006. | ||
| It goes for $300 on eBay now. | ||
| I've seen the pictures on eBay, yeah. | ||
| When I watch Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, the Johnny Depp version, which is superior, I do cry a little bit, and I'm not kidding, because Harvey gave me that golden ticket. | ||
| Harvey's the one who saw something special in me, who saw someone unique, and put his reputation on the line, and said, I'm going to write a book about this freak. | ||
| And that was such a major step in me becoming independent. | ||
| If you are that special person – and people don't like special. | ||
| They want everything to be the same. | ||
| They want to watch Big Bang Theory. | ||
| They want to watch Chris Cuomo. | ||
| When you're an outlier, people aren't trained on how to handle you. | ||
| Some people will be drawn to you. | ||
| A majority will be put off by you. | ||
| But when you meet your maker, I promise you are going to be able to, like you said, hold your head up high because you lived according to your values. | ||
| So Jordan's been, since I just mentioned Jordan, that, what you just said right there. | ||
| Did you happen to see the clip that went viral of Jordan in the last couple weeks? | ||
| Which one? | ||
| Where he was on Tucker Carlson's Fox Nation show and he's talking about telling the truth for truth's sake. | ||
| Did you happen to see this? | ||
| I have not. | ||
| So we're gonna lay the clip in right here. | ||
| You know, you make your decisions in life, and I decided when I was very young, in my mid-twenties, that I was going to say what I believed and see what happened. | ||
| I talked to you earlier in the talk about adventure, you know, about the adventure of truth, and... | ||
| I don't think I'm happy about what has happened, and I certainly have dragged my family through their fair share of, well, both hell and also incomprehensible opportunity. | ||
| It's expanded our lives in both directions to a tremendous degree. | ||
| But it's certainly been an adventure. | ||
| It's not been dull. | ||
| And I don't believe that it was a mistake. | ||
| Whatever happens as a consequence of telling the truth is the best thing that can happen. | ||
| It doesn't really matter how it looks to you at the moment, or maybe even across the years. | ||
| It's an article of faith in some sense. | ||
| Do you believe that reality is better constituted as a consequence of truth or falsity? | ||
| If you believe that reality is best constituted as a consequence of truth, then you have a responsibility to speak the truth, and you can't assess the consequences and say, well, that was a mistake, because part of the decision That reality is best constituted as a consequence of the truth is the decision that no matter what happens is the best if it's a consequence of telling the truth. | ||
| And so that's what I conclude. | ||
| It's like this is what happened because I said what I had to say as clearly as I could say it. | ||
| And that's as good as it could be. | ||
| Now, whether or not that's good, well, it's good compared to all possible alternatives. | ||
| All possible realistic alternatives. | ||
| That's an article of faith, as far as I'm concerned. | ||
| You know, our culture is predicated on the idea that truth in speech is of divine significance. | ||
| It's the fundamental presupposition of our culture. | ||
| Well, if you believe that, then you act it out. | ||
| and you take the consequences. You're going to take the consequences one way or another, you know. | ||
| So you want the truth on your side or do you want to hide behind falsehoods? | ||
| Okay, so I think you understand why I wanted to play that clip just as you were saying that. | ||
| It's very Ayn Rand in his messaging. | ||
| That's Jordan Peterson at his best. | ||
| A lot of people who are fans of mine are huge Jordan fans. | ||
| I always knew why, but seeing him work his magic... First of all, I'm just delighted on a personal level. | ||
| That he's being bad, that he's back from his health issues, that he's being this cogent. | ||
| But yeah, Rand, Ayn Rand had that point about reality is true. | ||
| It is the standard for what truth means. | ||
| And that's the definition of truth, that which corresponds to reality. | ||
| Ben Shapiro, you know, obviously has a very famous quote, facts don't care about your feelings. | ||
| Facts are what come first. | ||
| And if your worldview is based on facts, As you understand them. | ||
| We're all limited in our knowledge. | ||
| We're going to make mistakes or we're going to have to kind of own them and fix them. | ||
| But if you are trying to act in a way that corresponds to reality, that corresponds to what you regard as true, even if you fail, at least you will have the self-esteem of knowing you've fought the good fight. | ||
| And truth is something that every one of us has to learn on our own. | ||
| Even if you tell me, Dave, that this is a great painter, for me to know that it's true, I have to see it for myself and do the mental work. | ||
| You can't have that telepathy. | ||
| But so much of corporate media is the person on the screen telling you this is what the science is, and me, or whoever, going on social media and repeating it verbatim. | ||
| That's not fact. | ||
| That's not truth. | ||
| That's being a parent. | ||
| And that's why I've been saying we're in a war on truth. | ||
| That's what this thing is, a war on truth. | ||
| I wonder, do you see where Rand and maybe Jordan are divergent? | ||
| Is that at the end, he's saying that that is the ultimate expression of faith, where I don't think she would go that far. | ||
| And the reason I brought all of this up was because I also wanted to link it to that star that you've got on your lapel. | ||
| Well, in terms of Rand, she was asked this on Donahue in 1979, which I'm sure you're a big fan of, and her point was, the way he's using the word faith, he's like, you have faith that you are accomplished, or whatever the question was, she goes, that's not faith, that's a conviction. | ||
| So it's not faith in the religious sense of received knowledge from a higher power, or I just have this emotional experience with the divine, and therefore everything else follows. | ||
| He means it in this, I can't, I don't want to put words in his mouth. | ||
| The perception I got is that he means this is a conviction, like an axiom, basically. | ||
| The leap to do that, the leap of faith to do that truth for truth's sake, something like that. | ||
| Yeah, so I mean, he's, I'm kind of, it takes a lot for me to sit here and kind of not know what to say, but when he nails it, like there's no one better. | ||
| And I think it's very, very, Sick that we have heard from the left correctly for a very long time that these young men are being raised without kind of models for healthy behavior and they result in negative consequences. | ||
| Rape culture is one of the things where this is like, you know, no one's teaching these men not to rape. | ||
| We need to teach them how to rape. | ||
| And Jordan comes along and he tells young people Your life can be better. | ||
| You can be a better person tomorrow. | ||
| You may not be perfect, but you could still be the best version of yourself. | ||
| Here are some concrete, actionable items to improve your life. | ||
| And as a consequence of that, as a consequence of preaching independence and self-improvement, he's a threat to the cathedral. | ||
| And that's why he became public enemy number one. | ||
| And you and I also have seen, and everyone listening to this has seen, The demented glee in his chemical dependency, and how people were happy that something bad happened to him, whereas he has not, I've never seen him really wish harm on anyone. | ||
| Ever, not once, ever. | ||
| He's a better person than me in that regard. | ||
| I was on his show, I'll tell you, I don't know when the episode's going to drop, and he goes, I'm not going to do the voice, he goes, the way you talk about academics, Uh, you know, and just these really nefarious terms. | ||
| Where does that leave me? | ||
| And me being me, I said, Jordan, you know, you'd be the last one that we're going to put up against the wall. | ||
| And after the interview, And I have no doubt he had a huge laugh. | ||
|
unidentified
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He did. | |
| Of course. | ||
| I'm friends with his daughter, Michaela. | ||
| I'm like, I just said your dad's going to get shot. | ||
| Uh, but it, you know, after that clip, maybe we'll, uh, uh, find some space for him. | ||
|
unidentified
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All right. | |
| So let's just link that. | ||
| to that star that you've got on your lapel and then I want to do two other things with you, relative to what's going on in the world right now in Israel and everything else. | ||
| I think it is interesting, I'm not an authority in the Middle East, but I think it is interesting how so many times when you have a group that's just burning everything down, that they are regarded as the heroes simply because they're weak and violent. | ||
| And we see this in nation after nation, and it's a very dangerous lesson to teach people. | ||
| I think Israel, like any country, has a right to defend themselves. | ||
| And I also think if you are defending yourself as a country, if that's what they're doing, this is a whole very, very complicated issue, who's, you know, chicken and egg. | ||
| I do not believe defense needs to be proportionate. | ||
| It can't be. | ||
| Right. | ||
| I mean, you'd actually be an idiot. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| If you were doing proportional... If someone's breaking into your house, you don't just, like, break into their house. | ||
| Right, exactly. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Let's do two more things because I want to get some drinks with the guy dressed like this. | ||
| Everyone does. | ||
| That's so cool. | ||
| I want to see you drink through the mask. | ||
| It's going to be a beautiful... red wine through the mask. | ||
| It's going to be... oh, here we go. | ||
| Oh, this is how it ends. | ||
| You never disappoint Malice, you never disappoint. | ||
| This cartoon that I just saw of you this morning, you're doing a cartoon with Tom Woods. | ||
| Very failed podcaster. | ||
| Yeah, very failed podcaster, Tom Woods. | ||
| It's a really wonderful, what do you call it, the politically incorrect explanation of communism? | ||
| I'm butchering it slightly, help me. | ||
| If they go to Pig TV series, there's a series of books by Regnery, who I'm sure you know. | ||
| They do great stuff. | ||
| They publish Gadsad. | ||
| Of course. | ||
| And for decades, they have been doing good stuff. | ||
| So they had a series of books called The Politically Correct Guide. | ||
| It's a politically correct guide to feminism, politically correct guide to the Constitution, to the United States. | ||
| So we adopted that. | ||
| And it's a series of cartoons, me and Tom, animated. | ||
| We discuss issues like the politically correct guide to communism, to the Great Depression, to Woodrow Wilson, to American heroes. | ||
| We're putting them out once a month. | ||
| And it's a great, people, the thing why I hate government schools And this is something that's not controversial. | ||
| People learn differently. | ||
| Some people learn by podcasts through conversation. | ||
| Some learn by books. | ||
| Some learn by audiobooks. | ||
| Some learn by documentaries. | ||
| None of these are right or wrong. | ||
| It's just the human mind is nuanced and perceives knowledge and information differently. | ||
| So this is a fun way for people to just sit down and learn about these epic issues that we're not going to learn the truth about from the New York Times, necessarily. | ||
| And if you find it interesting, You can go on and explore from there. | ||
| So they're bite-sized pieces, and I'm really proud to work with them. | ||
| What's the website again? | ||
| TigTVSeries.com. | ||
| Politically correct. | ||
| GuyTVSeries.com. | ||
| They're just great. | ||
| They're light and fun and just great. | ||
| And my goal, Tom, again, as I mentioned earlier in the show, he's a dad, Catholic, he's got five daughters. | ||
| My goal is to get him in a dress in as many episodes as possible, and I think I did a good job of that. | ||
| You haven't got me in a dress yet. | ||
| Well, not on camera. | ||
| And it wasn't really much work. | ||
| What a night that was. | ||
|
unidentified
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It was getting you out of the dress that was the problem. | |
| Final thought here, and I'm actually not mentioning this for promotional purposes. | ||
| I'm mentioning this for purposes that are completely in line with everything we've talked here. | ||
| You're crushing it on locals. | ||
| You've built something that is awesome and great, and you've got your... I always say there's no trolls on locals, and you always go, well, wait, wait, wait. | ||
| Wait, wait, wait. | ||
| But we've built you your own community where you're killing it, basically. | ||
| I am so grateful to you and to my supporters. | ||
| It's malice.locals.com, as everyone knows, because my goal wasn't like, hey, everybody, I'm such a badass. | ||
| My goal is there are certain values that I hold. | ||
| Come to the community. | ||
| You're gonna find people who think like you. | ||
| We'll discuss... People post pictures of their dog. | ||
| They post pictures about their nephews. | ||
| They discuss politics. | ||
| But you know it's a space where your neighbor from high school, like on Facebook, isn't gonna wish death upon you. | ||
| And I think there's... I was surprised, and I think you were very ahead of the curve on this. | ||
| There's a huge ethos on the internet in the same way that when you go to a restaurant and you tip the waitress, if you see a creator that is making it happen, you toss them a few bucks because they're the ones who are kind of in the front lines taking the bullets. | ||
| Outsourcing of bravery. | ||
| Oh, yeah, I like that. | ||
| I'm going to pretend I thought of that. | ||
| So the fact that I have so many people who are willing to toss me five bucks a month for nothing in return, I'm still going to do the work, because they're like, you are taking the fight that I, as a business owner or a young professional, aren't in a position to do, that is very, very humbling and flattering. | ||
| And I could not be more grateful. | ||
| And it also means I don't have to be afraid Because if I had a situation with locals, I'd get on the phone with you, we would hash it out, and we'd come to some conclusion, even if we had to go our separate ways, but I know I'm never gonna wake up and have the community vanished and have no explanation other than some press release. | ||
| To be very clear, Michael, you're not getting on the phone with me, because that's not what I do, but you'd get on the phone with someone there, and guess what? | ||
| It's your community. | ||
| You do whatever the hell you want. | ||
| If you're breaking the laws of the United States, you've got bigger problems than locals. | ||
| You're taking my call, Ruben. | ||
| I'll take your call anyway, but not about this sort of stuff. | ||
| You know, Malice, I didn't know what I was walking into. | ||
| You said to me that, you know, I should sit here first before seeing you. | ||
| My guys got to see you. | ||
| I honestly thought you were going to be dressed up as Bea Arthur from the Golden Girls. | ||
| That was my, it was just my gut feeling. | ||
| But you've surprised me yet again. | ||
| And thus you are the Willy Wonka of politics. | ||
| Well, thank you, Veruca. | ||
| I appreciate it. | ||
| Can you see my hand? | ||
| I can. | ||
| Is it the finger? | ||
| If you're looking for more honest and thoughtful conversations about politics instead of nonstop yelling, check out our politics playlist. | ||
| And if you want to watch full interviews on a variety of topics, watch our full episode playlist all right over here. |
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