June 1, 2020 - Rubin Report - Dave Rubin
20:30
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| Speaker | Time | Text |
|---|---|---|
| I want to react to one specific thing you said about the angry men. | ||
| It is 100% projection. | ||
| The angry young men and women are on the left. | ||
| How could they not be? | ||
| You're living in a racist, sexist, misogynist, homophobic, xenophobic society. | ||
| You are a victim. | ||
| Unless you are a white heterosexual Christian male, you are a victim. | ||
| Who is producing anger? | ||
| Us? | ||
| Saying, you know what? | ||
| Life is inherently difficult. | ||
| Now, what do you do? | ||
| Make your bed. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Start with that. | |
| I'm Dennis Prager, and Dave says I don't need an introduction, which is a very major compliment. | ||
| I'm not sure it's true, but it doesn't matter. | ||
| You're here. | ||
| You're here because of Dave Rubin anyway. | ||
| So we're going to talk about Don't Burn This Book, Chapter 9. | ||
| I am very delighted that Dave asked me to comment on Chapter 9. | ||
| It's Find a Mentor. | ||
| It's largely about Jordan Peterson, but of course, it's even larger than—by the way, let me interrupt myself. | ||
| I think that Jordan Peterson—I wrote the introduction to his biography—I think that he is one of the most wonderful human beings that I have met in my life, and I cannot tell you how many wonderful people I have met. | ||
| This is an extraordinary human being in every way, and like many extraordinary people, he bears the weight of the world on his shoulders, because he is so He is so sensitive to the pain of the world, and he wants to try and make a dent in this tremendous amount of pain. | ||
| I have often said on my radio show that if pain were water, the world would drown. | ||
| So I resonate to him tremendously, and you, Dave, obviously do. | ||
| But your chapter, while it's mostly about Jordan, is about the subject of finding a mentor. | ||
| So let me tell you something you'll find, I think, of interest. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| I've been broadcasting 35 years, so I started in my 30s. | ||
| And so I was a kid when I started, and I'm not a kid now. | ||
| So gradually, over the course of time, more and more people would say, Calling into the show, Dennis, I just want you to know, you're like a father to me. | ||
| And I've always answered, good. | ||
| Everyone needs one. | ||
| And I've said all the time, it is every male's task to become a father figure to younger men. | ||
| That is our task. | ||
| And that is why every human being, and I'll talk about men now, every man can make a difference. | ||
| Whether you have children or not, whatever your circumstance, if you are a father figure to one younger man, the younger man may be 10 years younger than you, you have made a dent in this world. | ||
| But a lot of men, like a lot of women, don't want to grow up. | ||
| So the last thing they want to be is a father figure to anybody. | ||
| They want to be the peer of younger people, not the father figure of younger people. | ||
| So I can't tell you how much I resonate to that chapter. | ||
| Even the part about dressing formally, just as you are now. | ||
| I mean, it's dramatic. | ||
| This is my favorite black shirt. | ||
| Come on, Prager. | ||
| I'm sure it is! | ||
| You are definitely dressing appropriately for the chapter. | ||
| Well, you know, a few things that you said there really strike me as interesting because, you know, one of the main things that we heard throughout the tour as the hit pieces would come out in the media is that the only people who show up to these Jordan Peterson events are angry young men. | ||
| And it was interesting, because not only was that factually not true, it was usually about 60-40 male to female, but they weren't angry, as far as I could tell. | ||
| It was a lot of people that were trying to fix their lives. | ||
| And they were, of course, every age, and there were literally grandmother groups that showed up, and there were trans people there, and everything that there could possibly be. | ||
| But this idea that he was only talking to angry young men, I thought was sort of fascinating, because if it was true, let's just pretend for a second that what they were saying was true, Well, if you're talking to angry young men and you're making their lives better, helping them get away from anger, well, would that not be considered good? | ||
| But I know the media is sort of unable to deal with, you know, somewhat complex topics. | ||
| So to see that and then to see that you're right. | ||
| There has been some weird shift that I think you, because of radio and because of being public about your opinions for so long, you've definitely seen where something happened That is not just specific to men, but perhaps has more to do with young men. | ||
| Where the father figure, or the trusted uncle, or someone that would give them guidance on really what the hard things are in the world, to really be responsible about your life. | ||
| And just because you don't like your job, it doesn't mean you can quit it tomorrow if you've got, you know, family to feed. | ||
| And just really, what does he say? | ||
| I mean, simple stuff. | ||
| Clean your room before you clean the world. | ||
| Stand up straight with your shoulders back. | ||
| Like these messages, he would say it sometimes during the tour. | ||
| He would say, some of my messages Yes, I mean, look, there are so many things you said that I would love to react to. | ||
| We are on this world, on this planet, for a limited period of time, and you have to decide what you want to do with your life. | ||
| that I would love to react to. | ||
| We are on this world, on this planet for a limited period of time. | ||
| And you have to decide what you want to do with your life. | ||
| I want to touch people to lead a better life. | ||
| In this terms, better meaning deeper and more good. | ||
| But I want to react to one specific thing you said about the angry men. | ||
| It is 100% projection. | ||
| The angry young men and women are on the left. | ||
| How could they not be? | ||
| You're living in a racist, sexist, misogynist, homophobic, xenophobic society. | ||
| You are a victim. | ||
| Unless you are a white, heterosexual, Christian male, you are a victim. | ||
| Who is producing anger? | ||
| Us? | ||
| Saying, you know what? | ||
| Life is inherently difficult. | ||
| Now, what do you do? | ||
| Make your bed. | ||
| Start with that. | ||
| I wrote a book on happiness. | ||
| It's not exactly an anger-reducing book. | ||
| I'm a happiness hour on my show for 21 years. | ||
| They create anger. | ||
| We're trying to subdue it and make happy, better, richer people. | ||
| And I don't mean richer in money. | ||
| Richer in life. | ||
| I wonder, Dennis, do you think that everyone actually needs a mentor? | ||
| Because one of the things that I talk about in the chapter is that it's not that Jordan and I sat down. | ||
| It's not that he sat me down and said, Hey, Dave, we're going on tour and I'm going to impart some wisdom on you. | ||
| It wasn't some sort of Jedi sit down kind of thing. | ||
| It really was that through the year and a half that we spent together, I saw him doing the best that he could, and I saw him sometimes admitting what his shortcomings were. | ||
| I saw him sometimes in front of 5,000 people, if a specifically pointed question was asked about something. | ||
| If people asked, for example, about his carnivore diet, and they would ask for advice about their diet, he would say, well, I'm not a dietician, I'm not a nutritionist, I can tell you what works for me. | ||
| And I think hearing somebody with some humility, and more than anything else, Totally, totally. | ||
| But your opening question is a variant. | ||
| Does everyone need a mentor? | ||
| The answer is yes, absolutely. | ||
| But the mentor can come in different shapes, forms, and ways. | ||
| I almost didn't realize that I needed it until I got it. | ||
| Does that make sense? | ||
| Totally, totally. | ||
| But your opening question is a variant, does everyone need a mentor? | ||
| The answer is yes, absolutely. | ||
| But the mentor can come in different shapes, forms, and ways. | ||
| So I believe my father was not a loving father, but he was a mentor, | ||
| which frankly is more important. | ||
| I I will give up a thousand hugs for a thousand sources of wisdom. | ||
| No, for ten wisdoms. | ||
| Okay? | ||
| I would like both, but if I have to choose, there's no question in my mind. | ||
| So, in my early life, and I had him as a model. | ||
| That I did, he was. | ||
| He was a model of a man. | ||
| And boys need male models. | ||
| Number two, I had mentors from 3,500 years ago. | ||
| I'm a religious Jew. | ||
| I've written a Bible commentary, The Rational Bible, and the figures there, Moses was a mentor. | ||
| I know that to many of your secular viewers, this sounds almost Maybe silly even, but certainly odd. | ||
| But it's true. | ||
| I studied this man all of my life, and he has flaws. | ||
| That's the beauty of the Old Testament figures. | ||
| They're flawed. | ||
| So I can't relate to a perfect person, but I can relate to a flawed man who does great things. | ||
| So, historical figures. | ||
| A Churchill. | ||
| Mentors. | ||
| I'll give you one more example. | ||
| My dear friend, Dr. Stephen Marmer, is a psychiatrist. | ||
| He tells the story of a patient from many years ago. | ||
| His father was a traveling salesman. | ||
| Came home only on weekends. | ||
| So, he'd spend the whole time with his wife. | ||
| He wanted to reconnect with his wife on the weekend. | ||
| He didn't have time for his kids. | ||
| So, what did the son do? | ||
| He went to the movies. | ||
| In those days, the figures in movies were male mentors. | ||
| He got to be a man from the movies. | ||
| That's not available today. | ||
| The men in movies are largely children. | ||
| There's so much there. | ||
| I think people are seeing that they're missing something. | ||
| In many ways, it's why PragerU works. | ||
| It's why Shapiro's message gets across. | ||
| Something got lost in the last, I suspect you'd think it's longer than I would think, but I would say in the last two decades maybe, but particularly in the last decade, where everybody just thought life is just whatever you want at any given moment, and if you grab it, you grab it great, and you just keep going, where now there is some other thing that's working for people. | ||
| So I suspect that when you read the chapter, when I talk about finding the importance of biblical stories, and as you know, we're expanding our family here, And those are messages that I kept getting through Jordan. | ||
| He said something that's a little counter to what you said before, but not that far off. | ||
| I would hear him say something like, for almost everybody, being a parent is a crucial part of life. | ||
| Not for everybody, but for almost everybody. | ||
| And what I kept thinking around that, you know my husband David, you and Sue have been here for dinner. | ||
| I knew that David wanted kids, and I didn't particularly want them because I had put so much investment into my career. | ||
| So you married up, man. | ||
|
unidentified
|
You married up. | |
| I did marry up, that is for sure. | ||
| And you've had the chicken. | ||
| You said it was the best chicken you ever had. | ||
| I thought, as I heard Jordan saying that, that I started thinking, well, could I be the exception to the rule? | ||
| Could I be the exception of the person that could not have kids and feel fully realized? | ||
| And then on top of the fact, well, then what would that make me to the person I married if I'm not going to allow that person to feel fully fulfilled in their life? | ||
| So he moved me. | ||
| In many ways, it was almost accidental because, again, he wasn't sending these messages to me, but they were messages through osmosis. | ||
| The problem with what you're saying—oh, and I 100% agree with it—but the problem with what you're saying to vast numbers of young people now is the idea of growing up is just not a value. | ||
| It's not thought of. | ||
| When I was a kid, again in a religious Jewish setting, all I was told is, be a mensch. | ||
| Which is, you know, a man. | ||
| And it means, what does a man mean? | ||
| A man means you grow up and you take responsibility. | ||
| You'll find this interesting. | ||
| On my male-female hour, I asked women, just women, call in for the next hour, what do you define as masculine? | ||
| And do you know, I did not know what they would say. | ||
| Overwhelmingly, they said, the sexiest man is the man who takes responsibility. | ||
| It doesn't surprise me. | ||
| It really doesn't surprise me, actually. | ||
|
unidentified
|
No, I'm sure it doesn't. | |
| Yes. | ||
| So, I knew from the earlier stage, I have to get married, I have to have children. | ||
| Have to! | ||
| It's not a matter of, gee, do I want to? | ||
| No, no! | ||
| Dennis, you wanna grow up? | ||
| This is what you do. | ||
| So one of the things that we've talked about, and I've had you on the show, obviously, a couple times, and I once had you in here to debate morality with Michael Shermer, who comes from a non-believer perspective. | ||
| But in the few pages that I was writing about the biblical stories and how I've come to believe that we need these eternal truths to organize a society, I suspect you were probably, you know, you must add a little smile on your face reading that. | ||
| But do you agree with my premise that on the micro level, that individually you could be a non-believer and be purely moral and good and all of those things? | ||
| Because my argument is not that you can't do it personally. | ||
| I think it's very hard and I think most people can't. | ||
| I had John Kasich in here once, and he said something sort of off the cuff that I ended up thinking was really quite profound. | ||
| He said, you know, a lot of people can do it without God. | ||
| I'm just not one of those people. | ||
| I thought that was actually a pretty moving statement, and I think I've come around to a belief that's very similar to that. | ||
| But I do believe that individually people can do it without God or without a set of rules outside of themselves, but that a society simply cannot organize itself without it. | ||
| Society needs people to wear seatbelts. | ||
| Does every individual need to wear a seatbelt? | ||
|
unidentified
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No. | |
| But society needs to wear a seatbelt. | ||
| Religion is a seatbelt. | ||
| And by the way, of course there were good atheists and there were good secular people. | ||
| It's not debatable. | ||
| But there were good people who believed in Zeus. | ||
| There were good people who worshipped 406 gods. | ||
| So therefore what? | ||
| It doesn't prove anything. | ||
| Yes, the conscience is universal, but it's not enough. | ||
| I give the example in my—you want me to say it? | ||
| Yeah, go ahead. | ||
| Okay, so I open up my book, The Rational Bible. | ||
| It's now two of five volumes, Genesis and Exodus, and I tell the story. | ||
| I had a difficult time with my parents in my late teens and my early twenties, which is hardly shocking. | ||
| But I treated them with respect every day of my life, no matter how difficult my relationship was. | ||
| And there was only one reason—only one! | ||
| I believed that God had instructed me, honor your father and your mother. | ||
| Period. | ||
| Afterwards, I did it because I loved them. | ||
| But when I didn't love them, I still did it because there was a God who told me to do so. | ||
| Yeah, I mean, I think that really is the undergirding point that I'm talking about. | ||
| The thing outside of us that can help organize us. | ||
| So one other thing on Jordan before we finish up. | ||
| I obviously, in the book, I finished writing the book in July. | ||
| We're now in May, so you know it takes quite some time to get these things actually out there. | ||
| And it was a little unclear exactly what was going on with Jordan when I was writing it. | ||
| I have seen him since, and as I keep telling everybody, I can't say anything that's not fully public, but he is getting better and all that. | ||
| But I'm wondering, did you ever see or have callers told you about moments when someone that they really believed in suddenly had a tumble like that? | ||
| And I do want to add one other thing about this, that he was very upfront and would talk about it often, that he was taking a small amount of medication for anti-anxiety and then, as you know, his wife was diagnosed with terminal cancer. | ||
| That was the end for her. | ||
| I was literally at lunch with him when he got the call about that. | ||
| On top of the fame, the hatred, the hit pieces, the love, the travel, I mean, just everything. | ||
| And of course, this is for a guy that was a clinical psychologist, not somebody who thought he was going to be the leading intellectual in the world. | ||
| But I'm curious if you have any experience in that sort of thing, when people look up to somebody And it's like none of us are, if I can say Jesus to a devout Jew, it's like a certain amount of people probably thought he was Jesus, like some other thing is really what I mean, like almost not human, and yet none of us are that. | ||
| I have discussed this on my show all of my life. | ||
| I've actually read on the air letters like this. | ||
| We've got a minute, Dennis, bring us home here. | ||
| I'll get it done in a minute. | ||
| I want you to know I have admired you for 25 years. | ||
| Then I heard you say the X, Y, or Z, and I realized you're a fraud. | ||
| And I would write back and say, so how did I fool you for 25 years? | ||
| This is a danger that people have. | ||
| There is no perfect being. | ||
| And by the way, why is he less perfect? | ||
| Because he takes an anti-anxiety pill. | ||
| It's such a bizarre thing. | ||
| It's not even a flaw. | ||
| It's not like he was caught having an affair. | ||
| And even then, I would still say, okay, humans are weak. | ||
| I would still think he's one of the greatest people I knew. | ||
|
unidentified
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But this isn't even a flaw! | |
| He's taking care of himself. | ||
| He deserves to take care of himself. | ||
| You'll never admire anyone if they have to be perfect. | ||
| Yeah, that's why they say don't meet your heroes. | ||
| I think that's usually what they're trying to tell you. | ||
| Well, with that in mind, even though I wrote Jordan Peterson as the mentor, I do include you in that group of people who have helped me clean up my life and clean up, you know, sort of everything that I'm doing here. | ||
| And I look forward to having you and Sue over for dinner again soon. | ||
| And then when we post a picture about it, People will say that you're a homophobe and I'm a self-hating gay and then, you know, the usual stuff. | ||
| But we know the truth. | ||
| But get a bigger menorah. | ||
| I know you want a bigger... All right, I got to work on the menorah. | ||
| I'm sure you know a guy. | ||
| Thanks, Prager. | ||
| If you're looking for more honest and thoughtful conversations about politics instead of nonstop yelling, check out our politics playlist. | ||
| And if you want to watch full interviews on a variety of topics, watch our full episode playlist all right over here. |
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