March 6, 2019 - Rubin Report - Dave Rubin
02:12:07
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unidentified
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🎵sad music🎵 Alright people- | |
| We are live on the YouTube. | ||
| We're live streaming. | ||
| We lost our live streaming capabilities a couple days ago. | ||
| We don't know why. | ||
| I don't have an email address of anyone at YouTube. | ||
| I look forward to getting one one day. | ||
| But apparently, we're live right now. | ||
| And I'm with Mr. Twitter. | ||
| Mr. Twitter. | ||
| That's what I just tweeted out. | ||
| I called you Mr. Twitter after what happened on Rogan yesterday. | ||
|
unidentified
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Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. | |
| I'm calling you Mr. Twitter Tim Pool. | ||
| It was crazy for me after. | ||
| I'm assuming everybody knows that I was on with Jack and Joe. | ||
| And for me, I'm just Having conversation, like, the cameras don't exist, I'm sitting here listening to what they have to say, I'm trying to be respectful, make sure they finish their point, not let them go too far with it, because there were a few times where I was like, you can't, you're lying, but after the fact, all these videos were like, Tim Pool destroys, you know, and I'm like, I didn't feel like I was destroying them, I just felt like we were having a conversation, you know? | ||
| And I felt like they were listening, at least Jack was. | ||
| Tim, this is the internet. | ||
| If you even engage in a remotely decent conversation with someone, someone gets the Dave Rubin just destroyed Tim Pool. | ||
| There will be several distractions here. | ||
| Okay, so you were on with Twitter CEO Jack Dorsey, who most people know, and he was on, | ||
| Rogan, about a month ago. | ||
| He's been on Sam Parris' podcast and a bunch of others. | ||
| He agreed to do this show two years ago. | ||
| I've emailed him a zillion times, and I tweet at him all the time. | ||
| They're trying to clear the schedule, and he is welcome. | ||
| He would have been welcome here today and all that. | ||
| You were also on with Vijaya Gade, who is from Legal and Trust and Safety at Twitter. | ||
| So it was the two of them, Rogan sort of moderating it, and you were kind of brought in. | ||
| You were brought in as the muscle, basically, to let Logan kind of sit back and you to just go to town on him. | ||
| Jack brought us lawyer, and Joe brought up a bunch of good points, but I think my favorite meme which described what happened was, it shows Ash Ketchum and Gary from Pokemon, with two Pokemon underneath with my name and Vijaya's name under it. | ||
| They brought us both in to get to the nitty gritty. | ||
| Here's the thing, in the first interview that Joe did, Joe didn't know a lot. | ||
| And neither did Jack. | ||
| And I think it's fair to point out Jack is running a ton of companies, and I respect him for going on numerous times, but I think it's important to point out most of the questions I ask, he'd defer to, you know, trust and safety. | ||
| Yeah, so all right. | ||
| So let's just do a whole bunch of stuff here. | ||
| So I want to ask you, the first thing that I'm going to ask you is just how did this whole freaking thing come together? | ||
| Because I was, I was buying dog food yesterday and then I suddenly saw a pop up and I was like, how the hell is this happening? | ||
| Even though I knew you were coming in here and I had no idea that it was going on. | ||
| So, so I want to ask you that, but I just want to say one thing quick off the bat, which is what you just said there hits it on the head that it All I saw out of the two of them, but mostly Jack, and I don't mean this to attack him or her personally. | ||
| I mean, as professionals doing the job they're doing at Twitter, if you're gonna go on shows and talk about these things, that all it was was endless kicking the can down the road. | ||
| You know, Harry Truman. | ||
| The buck stops here. | ||
| I mean, there's no there's no buck and there's no stop. | ||
| It's like we'll look into it. | ||
| Oh, that happened. | ||
| We're not sure about that. | ||
| We'll talk about it with this person. | ||
| There's just it's just endless. | ||
| Two important things came out of the conversation, regardless of anything else, was when in two different instances, I pointed out if your rule so so the way I described it on Twitter is to a conservative. | ||
| misgendering someone would be if they're biologically male and you call them a female pronoun. | ||
| And to progressives, it's the inverse. | ||
| If a trans woman wants to use a pronoun. | ||
| I pointed that out. | ||
| One of those is factually correct. | ||
| We should make a point about that. | ||
| Right, right, right. | ||
| One of them is actually on Wikipedia consensus for the rest of society that it is factually true. | ||
| But the point I want to make is not whether or not your ideology is correct or not correct, but that you do enforce an ideological rule. | ||
| And she said, thank you for the feedback. | ||
| But then Joe made another point, and then her response was, I think that's absolutely correct, Joe. | ||
| So I'm glad that they admitted they do have a bias. | ||
| And there were a few points where I saw Jack have a look on his face. | ||
| So the first thing was, when they were pointing out their rules, I interjected by saying, no, no, no, you actually have a rule that's biased against conservatives. | ||
| And Jack had this look where he was like, what? | ||
| What rule? | ||
| Like he didn't realize it. | ||
| I'm like, you realize one of the top podcasts in the world, Ben Shapiro's show, and Ben Shapiro disagrees with you to tens of millions or more, they don't agree with that rule. | ||
| It makes no sense to them. | ||
| And then I tried to make a point about, I looked it up, it's called body integrity identity disorder. | ||
| These are people who like amputate body parts. | ||
| I'm not trying to equate the two, but to point out there are other similar syndromes that aren't protected under the rules. | ||
| So they do have the specific protected class based on an ideology. | ||
| So there was a ton of moments like that where it seemed like you were laying out some pretty clear things that, again, they sort of were kind of evasive, or we don't know, or we'll look into it, right? | ||
| There's a lot of we'll look into it. | ||
| And it's like, all right, we know you're not really gonna look into it because it's not as if Tim Poole, as much as I respect Tim Poole, just magically came up with all this stuff yesterday, right? | ||
| This stuff's been out there for a while. | ||
| It looks like the tweet I referenced is gone. | ||
| I so I I specifically prepared this yeah I don't want to call it a stunt but I | ||
| was like I want to be able to pull this up on cue so I set up a bitly link to | ||
| this tweet in question from September that was doxing law enforcement never | ||
| taken down and people were tweeting Jack what's up with this there's articles | ||
| written about how it's never come down and what they said is that they took | ||
| down some of the people that linked to the tweet or something no no sure | ||
| She just said, oh, I don't know. | ||
| We make mistakes. | ||
| And I will say this, too. | ||
| After the show, Jack said my two analogies about sand and snow were really, really important. | ||
| And he understands what I'm saying by this. | ||
| And that references If they keep making mistakes, the analogy I always use is, how many grains of sand until you have a heap? | ||
| The heap being bias against conservatives. | ||
| And the snowflake reference is, Twitter thinks, look, we're just one company, we're making mistakes. | ||
| They don't blame themselves for the fact that all of these other companies are doing the same thing. | ||
| It's an avalanche, and they're one of the snowflakes. | ||
| The only way you change this is when the individuals and the companies take responsibility for what's happening. | ||
| Do you, all right, so hold on, I don't wanna lose the question | ||
| about how the hell this thing came to be. | ||
| It's funny too. | ||
| But let's just not run off, let's not run off this point. | ||
| Yet, do you think they actually care? | ||
| Jack does. | ||
| Like partly, so, all right, well you were the one sitting across from me. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| But I partly was just like, these guys know exactly what they're doing. | ||
| We know that conservatives get banned, and shadow banned, and unfollowed, and all these things. | ||
| And it's not just conservatives, by the way, because it's people like us, too. | ||
| Yeah, you're a Bernie guy. | ||
| Meghan Murphy is not a conservative. | ||
| Right, right, exactly. | ||
| So, but that basically they go on these shows, even though it was sort of impressive that the legal person showed up, that they're just going on just again to kick the can down the road because it gives a glimmer of hope for people to be like, see, they care. | ||
| they're kind of doing their thing. | ||
| But even though we know nothing's gonna change, right? | ||
| Well, I, and that's exactly how I ended it. | ||
| I'm like, here I am sitting here, Jack, you're justifying why everything you're doing | ||
| is right, I'm trying to justify why what you're doing is wrong, and that's the end. | ||
| That's nothing that's gonna change. | ||
| And so, so for me, I'm looking at the, the, the, the opening gateway, the bridge to the nightmare dystopia. | ||
| When I see conservatives being banned from bank accounts, from, you know, Patreon's one thing, but PayPal's another. | ||
| Then Chase actually has people down. | ||
| MasterCard, you know, according to Patreon, MasterCard actually wanted to get Robert, I believe Robert Spencer, and I'm like, this is happening. | ||
| You realize it, right? | ||
| China's doing it on a grand scale, and we're watching the start of it. | ||
| The avalanche is kicking off, and these companies, like, I don't want to, you know, none of the other companies showed up, but Twitter is going, we're doing our best. | ||
| Jack outlined this vision of a future to me and he was, and I'm like, you're describing the opposite direction to where you're going. | ||
| He's, you know, like, uh, I can't remember exactly what he was saying, but he was talking about open, you know, everyone can speak and all these things and just laying out the four principles of what makes healthy conversation. | ||
| And I'm like, you realize you're actually walking away from what you're describing. | ||
| And, you know, I will say this too. | ||
| Um, ultimately what I feel like was kind of happening is an, is a util, utilitarian versus deontological debate. | ||
| Which, for those that aren't familiar, Jack was convinced that he must do the most good. | ||
| He's looking at the collective and saying, how can I make sure that 90% out of 100 people are sharing their thoughts? | ||
| And I look at this and say, the individual needs to be allowed to speak. | ||
| So, out of 100 people, I'm like, each individual needs to be able to speak, and we can't protect everybody. | ||
| And that's why I asked Jack when he said, we did research and that's why we implemented this trans rule. | ||
| I said, why did you stop there? | ||
| Well, he said he didn't. | ||
| And I'm like, but look, if you're going to implement a rule to protect one class of people, we can look at suicide rates for dentists. | ||
| We can look at suicide rates for police. | ||
| Are you going to make police a protected class? | ||
| Right, or if you're saying, okay, well, you can't misgender trans people, well, can you call Jews Nazis? | ||
| As I got called a Nazi by several verified... That's offensive. | ||
| By, I think, two verified people today, and I tweeted it out. | ||
| And I don't care. | ||
| I mean, not like... That's the problem. | ||
| It's not fun, but right. | ||
| So I get it. | ||
| Because if you're basically a functioning human being that isn't a hysterical nutbag, Right? | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| Right? | ||
| Like basically, I don't run around reporting everybody. | ||
| I call it out occasionally, and I'm only doing it to show the double standard, | ||
| not to get these people kicked off. | ||
| It's a reaction. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| To just say, look what you guys are doing. | ||
| I mean, by any estimation, what they laid out yesterday in terms of targeted harassment, | ||
| that that'll get you booted and the whole Milo thing, and we can get into that. | ||
| Well these people that today, there were two verified people calling us fascists and Nazis and a bunch of others. | ||
| And that harassment escalates to extreme degrees. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And there are certain personalities that I don't want to name that have made fake videos and gotten people banned because of it. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So the challenge in calling out the specifics is that they want attention. | ||
| And then when you name them, they point the finger. | ||
| I have no problem calling out organizations. | ||
| Like I mentioned the SPLC and Hope Not Hate, and I'm doing it again. | ||
| I know where that's gonna lead to. | ||
| You mean the Southern Poverty Hate Center, right? | ||
| Oh, whatever you want to call it. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I'll try to... It's SPHC. | ||
| Is it now? | ||
| I'm going to try and be... I'll call them out for the areas, but I won't deride, like insult their name or anything. | ||
| Yeah, no, they're horrible. | ||
| I think they're bad, but I will say this. | ||
| The only thing I can really say in terms of my personal interaction with them is that They wrote this article that claimed I was attending a Holocaust-deniers conference in Iran, and they used a Holocaust-denying conspiracy theory website to prove it. | ||
| If that's their standard of proof, that's nightmarish, especially when they are consulting certain groups or they're involved with ChangeTheTerms.org, which wants to, you know, do all these things. | ||
| They did retract that, though, and they apologized and called me an individual on the left. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So, okay, there you go. | ||
| Right, well, there's so much there. | ||
| I mean, Majid Nouraiz had to sue them to get them off his anti-Muslim extremism. | ||
| He did, but here's the important thing. | ||
| He's not an extremist. | ||
| They settled based on a strongly worded letter. | ||
| I don't believe it ever actually got to the point where a suit was filed. | ||
| So, they recognized, they overstepped their boundaries. | ||
| In my case, and Majid's case, there are a lot of people that don't get that same, you know, I'm not as big as Majid or even you, but I'm fortunate enough to at least have some, you know, notoriety that provides me with protection. | ||
| Like, to try and call me alt-right is the most insane thing ever. | ||
| And the weird thing is, it's white progressives doing it. | ||
| Like, my mixed-raced family, who had racist sexually attack us, And the white progressives who are well off are the ones who are pointing the finger at me. | ||
| It's like, you people are racist. | ||
| That's all I can say. | ||
| Yeah, I mean, well, that is the new pernicious racism of the left. | ||
| But okay, let's pause for just a second. | ||
| Right, right, we're going. | ||
| Let's get back to the beginning. | ||
| How the hell did this thing even happen? | ||
| Because when I saw it, I'm sitting in the parking lot at PECO. | ||
| And I was like, well, because it's like if they were trying to protect their asses, it's like the last person you'd want to sit in there with is you. | ||
| Because if you would have said to me, who's the right guy to take them down a notch, I would have said you. | ||
| There might have been a couple other guys, but you'd be right in the center of the right person that gets all of this. | ||
| I feel lucky. | ||
| But who called who? | ||
| How the hell did this thing happen? | ||
| It's a long, it's a decently, it's not super long, but so here's what happens. | ||
| Joe Rogan does the video with Jack Dorsey. | ||
| It gets slammed. | ||
| I make a video about it saying, like, I watched the podcast, I was excited at first, it quickly got boring, and then I kind of just trailed off and felt like Joe wasn't actually getting into anything. | ||
| And, you know, we're better off for him doing the interview by a tiny degree, but ultimately I don't think we gained anything from it. | ||
| Basically because he didn't get into the nitty gritty. | ||
| I'm not talking shit about Joe by any estimation. | ||
| No, no, but he knows this, right? | ||
| It was a really surface level regurgitation of what we had already heard a million times. | ||
| And so when Joe responded to the complaints... | ||
| I made a follow-up video where I was like, I respect Joe for doing this. | ||
| Joe recognizes he's going to, you know, I criticized a bunch. | ||
| Before the video I made went live, because this was just like, I make rant videos on my second channel. | ||
| They do way better than my more like structured videos. | ||
| But before it even went live, I got a notification that Joe Rogan or somebody affiliated with him had copyright flagged it. | ||
| And I was like, wait, hold on. | ||
| This is fair use. | ||
| So fortunately, several months ago, Joe had followed me on Twitter and apologized for, you know, he canceled on me in the past. | ||
| And he was just like, I feel bad about it. | ||
| It's a long time ago. | ||
| So now he's following me. | ||
| I just tweeted at him and I said, hey, would you mind releasing this? | ||
| It's fair use. | ||
| I was criticizing your podcast. | ||
| And he's like, yeah, send me the link and we'll go over it. | ||
| I send him the link and then he responds right away with like, hey man, your criticisms were actually really good. | ||
| Can I call you right now? | ||
| And I was like, sure. | ||
| Great. | ||
| And then he calls me and then he kind of just explained like he felt really bad that he didn't do a good enough job. | ||
| He didn't realize how important these issues were. | ||
| He just thought he was meeting with like a tech CEO and he didn't really follow a lot of the stuff. | ||
| And then at the end, near the end of the call, we talked for a while. | ||
| He goes, you know, I owe you coming out on the show, man. | ||
| So I'll bring you out sometime. | ||
| I'm like, yeah, sure. | ||
| Have a good day. | ||
| Five hours later, whatever, I'm like in my shorts playing video games like end of the day about to go to bed and my phone rings and it's Joe and he goes, you want to come on the show on Friday? | ||
| And I'm like, that's like, I got a flight tomorrow. | ||
| That's like one day. | ||
| He's like, yeah. | ||
| And I'm like, okay, we go, I go on the show. | ||
| Everybody saw it. | ||
| It was great. | ||
| And then immediately after the show, he's like, He calls me up right when I get back to my hotel and he says, how would you like to come on and do this thing? | ||
| Don't tell anybody and it'll be you, me, Jack and he's going to bring on somebody. | ||
| And he says, I'm trying to confirm it. | ||
| So I think the main reason he didn't want to promote it was he was concerned that Like, it's hard to confirm. | ||
| Especially with someone as busy as Jack is. | ||
| So he was like, I don't want to hype it up, I want to make sure we actually do it. | ||
| Otherwise everyone's going to get angry when we cancel. | ||
| So then, I didn't know it was going to happen. | ||
| And it wasn't until a few days ago, maybe a week ago, they were like, we're good to go, we're going to fly you out. | ||
| And he was like, I don't think there was anything expressly like, don't promote it, but just Joe was like, I'm gonna take care of that. | ||
| I'm like, all right, so I just didn't say anything. | ||
| Because I didn't know if it was gonna happen. | ||
| Right, so that's why I think it's so interesting, because A, first off, I give Joe credit for going, okay, this isn't my area of expertise per se, so let me bring in somebody that it is, so that there's a little bit of that back and forth. | ||
| But B, it partly brings me back to what I said before, which is, once they had heard, I don't know when they found out that Jack and Apparently he pitched to him in advance. | ||
| No, no, no, like a month. | ||
| couple of days before. No, no, no, like a month. Okay, so a month lead time | ||
| knowing that this Tim Pool guy is gonna be the one sitting across from them, that | ||
| it seems to me that the only reason that they would agree to do it, because they | ||
| had to assume it was gonna go exactly as it went, not well for them, is that | ||
| the only reason you do it is if it's just to kick the can down the | ||
| road. It's just, you know what I mean? Justification. | ||
| I mean, you can look at, uh, Vijaya had a laptop with a bunch of research, and, and, and I, I, there were, there were a couple instances where I said, oh, she makes a good point, right? | ||
| There were some people she mentioned, this is why we banned them, and in some cases, you know, I brought up Sargon of Akkad. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I didn't bring him, uh, Carl Benjamin, I didn't bring him up to defend him, because I know he tweeted things that it's like, dude, you really pushed buttons. | ||
| But then inadvertently find out one of them was very clearly pointing at their biased rule set and not actually targeting anybody in any way, in which case they did end up false striking him at least one time. | ||
| But they did their research, a few people. | ||
| But ultimately, I think one point we got out of that was, we're just going to trust you. | ||
| Like you haven't presented this evidence to anybody, you're saying it now. | ||
| But there is an important detail there that I want to stress too, is that everything she | ||
| said about why they banned people, those are statements of fact. | ||
| And if those aren't real and they can't prove it, they can be sued for defamation. | ||
| So anybody who's now been banned by Twitter, that she mentioned- | ||
| Should have their lawyers going back. | ||
| Well, I'm not saying do anything. | ||
| I'm just saying, if it, because Alex texted, Joe apparently said that's not true. | ||
| Okay, great. | ||
| So that's a statement of fact on a show as to why they took action against you saying, | ||
| Alex Jones did X. | ||
| If that's not true, well now you can file your complaint. | ||
| Yeah, see that's what, I think the reason I'm so- It's not even frustrated. | ||
| I'm actually not frustrated by it. | ||
| I'm so like, sort of blasé about it is because it's like I, you know, I had Jack Conte in here, the Patreon CEO, like two years ago, and there he was sitting with me telling me, you know, we'll never boot people. | ||
| Yeah, whispering sweet nothings in your ear to convince you. | ||
| Right, and it will only boot people because of manifest observable behavior. | ||
| Mob behavior. | ||
| Mob, M-O-B. | ||
| You can't make this stuff up. | ||
| And that's sort of what I, that was the feeling that I got from this Jack, Jack Dorsey, that it's just like, we'll just say things and it kind of keeps moving things along. | ||
| Here's what I think. | ||
| And again, I'm not, I'm really not impugning him as a person. | ||
| I'll take your word for it. | ||
| So there are some conservatives who are not super high profile, whatever, that I've met in the past. | ||
| And someone told me a long time ago, not super long ago, recently, relatively recently, within the past few months, that Jack's actually not a bad guy. | ||
| It's the people around him who are telling these things, and he's not exposed to... I've heard some insider stuff. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| And so what ends up happening is, when I said, your rule is biased against conservatives from the get-go, Jack genuinely looked confused. | ||
| And he said, wait, wait, wait, what rule? | ||
| And I had to explain it to him. | ||
| But then maybe he shouldn't be the CEO of the company? | ||
| I mean, not to be a dick, but like, he's the CEO of several companies, is that correct? | ||
| I believe so, yeah. | ||
| I mean, you got Cash App Square, Twitter, I don't know what else. | ||
| All right, so let's just say Twitter is enough of a job in and of itself. | ||
| If you don't know the rules, what are you doing? | ||
| Right. | ||
| I don't take any great pleasure in saying that. | ||
| It's not that he didn't know the rules, it's that he didn't, because he talked about the research they did for that rule, it's that he didn't realize more than 50, about 50% of this country, actually it's way more than that, don't agree with that ideological view, and the reason I say more than that is because moderate liberals You know, like, I talked to my mom. | ||
| And my mom is a lifelong liberal. | ||
| And she's a progressive. | ||
| She agrees with so much of what the modern left today agrees with, and the new progressives. | ||
| But she said, oh, I don't know if trans women should be competing against biological women. | ||
| And I said, whoa, hold your horses there, mom. | ||
| That's a conservative. | ||
| You know, and so if my mom, a liberal, is still questioning that, then Twitter is very clearly taking a very small minority position on that. | ||
| If you've got a feminist like Megan Murphy, who's clearly on the left, being banned because she doesn't want to adhere to this, it's not even a left versus right issue. | ||
| You've got moderate liberals, feminists, conservatives, all saying, well, hold on on this issue. | ||
| But Twitter has clearly adopted a very ideological rule. | ||
| And Jack, I don't think anyone's ever told Jack that. | ||
| And here's the thing. | ||
| Yeah, you really don't think that, though? | ||
| I don't. | ||
| I'm with you on all this. | ||
| So he lives in some level of a bubble. | ||
| Of course. | ||
| None of this very obvious stuff. | ||
| I mean, what you just laid out. | ||
| I mean, I've been talking about this for five years now. | ||
| You know what I mean? | ||
| It's not like the internet hasn't been, like, abuzz about this type of conversation. | ||
| I haven't seen anyone actually break down They say, oh, but hate speech, that's not fair. | ||
| They say things like that. | ||
| And I'm like, no, no, no, hold on. | ||
| There's a very clear ideological divide between this rule and everything else. | ||
| When it comes to hate speech, very obviously, conservatives are, you know, gung-ho on free speech, and many on the left aren't. | ||
| But that's still different because it's like, we just don't want you to harass people and say mean things, and it's kind of been normalized because all the platforms do it. | ||
| But the misgendering thing is so specific. | ||
| And you know, I'll say this too, I really hate using, like, they kind of back me into using this because I don't necessarily disagree with why they have the rule. | ||
| Like, I think purposefully being disrespectful, targeting people, misgendering, deadnaming, I don't, I think those are wrong. | ||
| But at the same time, you have to recognize conservatives think you're, it's inverted for them, right? | ||
| They think it's wrong to gender someone they're not, you know, that's not their biological gender. | ||
| And my goal is, look, I'm a, so we talked about this the first time I was here, I'm a social liberal, not a classical liberal. | ||
| But I respect the right of other people to have opinions and debate and share ideas and try and figure out what works. | ||
| So I will say, listen, this is what they think and they're arguing and you don't see that. | ||
| And I genuinely believe, because I've seen the debates, the conversations with Jack, the testimony from Congress, no one has ever pointed this out to him. | ||
| And he was kind of like, I think he kind of realized it. | ||
| I mean, to me, that makes it sound like he's an idiot. | ||
| Like, I completely hear you, and I'm not judging your judgment of him, actually. | ||
| It's just like, I don't know what job you're in then, dude. | ||
| You should have another job. | ||
| I think he's, it's almost like, he has say, he is the chief executive officer, but I think it's more of a, he gets an email and goes, sure. | ||
| You know what I mean? | ||
|
unidentified
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Yeah. | |
| Does that sort of tell you, though, what social justice does to a company? | ||
| That all this could be going on and you sort of need a head guy. | ||
| I mean, it's true for any company, depending how big it is, though. | ||
| You know, it's like Jack can only know so much. | ||
| But I also think you have to look at I could be wrong on this. | ||
| Jack was fired. | ||
| They replaced him with Dick Costolo and then Dick Costolo left and then Jack came back. | ||
| So it may just be that they were like, bring him back in. | ||
| It's going to be kind of in paper, like in name only thing. | ||
| He does have authority, obviously. | ||
| He's talked about that. | ||
| But I think he's not super focused. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And again, I'm not attacking the guy. | ||
| It's like, I want him to come in here and I would treat him with as much respect as I would treat anyone else. | ||
| So, okay, fine. | ||
| Yeah, go ahead. | ||
| Well, I think the only reason these conversations happen is because of him. | ||
| I think he follows, I'm pretty sure he follows Jordan Peterson. | ||
| I think he follows you. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So I think he genuinely is trying to understand why people are mad at him, and that's why after the podcast he said the grains of sand thing makes a lot of sense. | ||
| Like, to him, he was probably thinking, we just made mistakes, man. | ||
| And then I say, right, but each of those mistakes makes a huge pile, and people are pointing to the pile, and you're going, but it's a mistake, it's a mistake. | ||
| No, it's a pile, dude! | ||
| It's a huge heap! | ||
| Keep doin' it! | ||
| It's a pretty big heap. | ||
| There was a lot of the conversation that was about, well, more of this seems to be happening to conservatives, but you did point out, actually, that sometimes they've banned some lefty accounts, right? | ||
| Yeah, yeah. | ||
| Not a lot, but there have been some. | ||
| There's a decent amount of, so I would say it's the lower tier accounts across the board. | ||
| If it's really freaky to it's the anti-war left is getting a ton of heat, but they're | ||
| not particularly popular or mainstream. | ||
| So there's no one coming out to defend them. | ||
| Conservatives, when they hear about it, will be like, hey, that's not cool. | ||
| But it's not. | ||
| You know, so so Occupy Wall Street accounts have been banned by Twitter for for. | ||
| I have no idea why. | ||
| They got rid of like 56 accounts. | ||
| Some with like 50,000 followers. | ||
| So the activist left that are not the same as the agitatorian, like high-profile regressive left people, these are people predominantly focused on Venezuela and Syria and like, you know, end the war. | ||
| They don't have the mainstream pull from the left to defend them, and the information isn't traveling in conservative circles. | ||
| I see it. | ||
| You know, somebody, uh, Michelle Malkin tweeted, you know, this, this, uh, Silicon Valley lobbyists said it happens to the left too, but couldn't name a single person. | ||
| And then I named three organizations that have been hit recently. | ||
| Uh, I think it's fair to point out for every one anti-war leftist, you get like 30 conservatives. | ||
| So that's why I was asking you the question. | ||
| Because I don't want people to think that it's nobody on the left, because it's not nobody. | ||
| But in terms of proportion, it seems to be far worse. | ||
| And it's not far right. | ||
| I mean, that's the thing. | ||
| It's not far right. | ||
| No, it's not. | ||
| Sargon of Akkad, Carl Benjamin, may have broken their rules by targeted harassment or whatever. | ||
| He said some crazy stuff. | ||
| Yeah, whatever he did. | ||
| I'm not defending it or whatever. | ||
| But it's like the idea that he's far right, in my mind, is crazy. | ||
| You know, he's a bit of a troll, but he's basically an old school liberal or, you know, something like that. | ||
| Sargon and Dankula, they joined UKIP. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And so even though, you know, like Dankula has a communist star on his chest and he, his political compass is slightly center left. | ||
| It's like you join a conservative or right wing party, then like, I don't know how you say you're not right wing. | ||
|
unidentified
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Sure. | |
| But either way, that in and of itself isn't a reason to get booted off a platform. | ||
| Oh, of course not. | ||
| But Sargon said a bunch of stuff, and he even messaged me, he was saying like, oh man, your face when you realize what I said. | ||
| He said some pretty crazy things, man. | ||
| Yeah, so do you think it's possible, I'm sort of coming to this belief, that we're about to watch one if not more of these giant tech companies completely crumble within the next two years, that the platforms have grown to the point where nobody can control them anymore, and this is where I would I would give Jack, let's say, a little bit of a leash in not understanding what's going on. | ||
| They've all grown so big. | ||
| There are so many people on them. | ||
| There are so many bots and targeted accounts and all of these things. | ||
| And competing interests and people who believe in free speech and people who don't. | ||
| Governments like Pakistan who are trying to get Twitter to take down people for their blasphemy laws. | ||
| And then Twitter, an American company, actually does it. | ||
| Well, I don't think they've taken anybody down. | ||
| Did they not take anyone down because of it? | ||
| And I actually agree with Twitter on this one. | ||
| They notify you. | ||
| So I've seen a lot of conservatives who are upset that they've gotten this blasphemy notice, and I'm like, oh, hold on. | ||
| Twitter's doing you a favor. | ||
| You could be killed if you go to Pakistan now. | ||
| If you violate Pakistan law, I would appreciate it if Twitter told me, hey, just FYI, they want to kill you, so don't go there. | ||
| I guess. | ||
| No, but Twitter hasn't taken any adverse action against the people who have posted pictures of Mohammed. | ||
| They've just said, we want to let you know, Pakistan has filed a complaint against you, and you may want legal representation to deal with it. | ||
| I agree with that. | ||
| They're giving you a government notice. | ||
| We want the transparency of the companies when governments are targeting them. | ||
| And it's up, those images, or whatever images they are, those are up in Twitter in Pakistan, too? | ||
| They're taken down to Pakistan. | ||
| Right, so that's where it's an American company. | ||
| See, this is where I would say an American company should But it should operate on the laws of America. | ||
| In America, though, I mean, it's tough. | ||
| This is one of the debates, too, about cultural imperialism. | ||
| And this is one of the things I was asking to Jack, because I know they enforce blasphemy laws in other countries. | ||
| You must follow the laws of the countries they're in. | ||
| But I asked them, does your hate speech policy apply to Iran? | ||
| They clarified they're blocked in Iran. | ||
| I'm like, OK, well, what about Pakistan, our country, where it's illegal to be gay? | ||
| It's a weird circumstance. | ||
| There's a ton of countries where it's illegal to be gay. | ||
| Let's say someone is convicted of sodomy or homosexuality and then you go on Twitter and target them and say you're a dirty criminal, you're awful. | ||
| Will Twitter ban you? | ||
| Because then you have a weird conundrum of the citizen following the law of his own country being banned by Twitter Even though Twitter has to follow the law of that country, too. | ||
| It's a weird... Now, I personally would be on Twitter's side on that one. | ||
| Like, that's horrifying, what they do in those countries. | ||
| But at the same time, Twitter is imposing its cultural values on foreign countries, where it's supposed to be following their laws. | ||
| I mean, yeah, to me, I mean, look, and I'm not a CEO of a giant tech company, but that's where I would just say, we're a United States company, and we're gonna follow the free speech laws of the United States, and if then the country wants to stop you from being on there, well, then they can do what they want, and they often do, as in Iran, but... | ||
| This is why I think we're going to start seeing like a nightmare scenario of dystopia. | ||
| Their response to me in how their rules supersede U.S. | ||
| law is that, well, we're a global company. | ||
| And I'm like, right, but you have a platform that is extremely, extremely powerful in influencing our elections. | ||
| And this is the most important point people don't seem to understand. | ||
| I've seen so much criticism. | ||
| People out there don't seem to understand what I'm saying. | ||
| They're like, Tim doesn't understand that free speech doesn't give you a right to a private platform. | ||
| Absolutely right. | ||
| Well, I'm a social liberal who believes in regulation that recognizes when a company becomes so powerful, it starts becoming a detriment to your democratic republic and your institutions. | ||
| The government must intervene. | ||
| That's my opinion. | ||
| Yeah, so you're taking a Trump position on this, actually. | ||
| Trump position? | ||
| Yeah, well, Trump wants basically the government to get involved at this point. | ||
| Well, I mean, I don't... I mean, that's a pretty conservative position. | ||
| Mine? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Socially liberal regulation of major companies? | ||
| No, well, it's become conservative now, because now it's not libertarian. | ||
| Oh, it's so weird. | ||
| Well, this shows you how everything's flipped, right? | ||
| Because you hear now conservatives saying it's gotten to the point where we're going to go against what our core belief is. | ||
| I don't fall on that. | ||
| I still believe in human ingenuity, but... | ||
| It annoys me when people respond to, like, the Joe Rogan podcast saying, like, these conservatives, they scream small, you know, private business and small government up until they get banned. | ||
| And I'm like, I have always been in favor of regulating companies that are breaking rules. | ||
| I used to work for environmental organizations. | ||
| So would you be for the government regulating Twitter right now? | ||
| At this point, absolutely. | ||
| And this is only after the conversation with Jack, because seeing the, you know, I respect him. | ||
| So you would be for the Trump government, which I assume you're not a big Trump guy. | ||
| You would be for the government led by Donald Trump to regulate Twitter. | ||
| It's not just led by Trump. | ||
| Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez is in the House. | ||
| She's got 3.5 million followers, so she has influence. | ||
| That's worse. | ||
| Sure, sure. | ||
| But there's an issue here. | ||
| One of the things I said to them was, if you are unwilling to uphold—I didn't say it as clearly as I thought about it. | ||
| I tweeted about it. | ||
| If you're unwilling to uphold the legal standard of public discourse set by the rules of the Supreme Court and the United States Constitution, then you will face regulation. | ||
| And their unwillingness to do so, Full well knowing foreign governments are manipulating us to trick us into voting, knowing that new knowledge was involved in the scheme to do Russian bots to cost the Republicans an election, that's terrifying to me. | ||
| And I would rather see Twitter turned off right now, switch, gone, if it meant we're going to protect our democracy, our democratic republic, because everybody gets mad at me, representative republic through democratic institutions. | ||
| Do you think in a weird way that the Twitter people, Jack included, want that? | ||
| That they've realized, and maybe that's why they're doing this little press thing right now, they've realized they can't control the beast anymore. | ||
| So what would be the best thing? | ||
| Jury rules. | ||
| So what they do on Periscope, and Jack mentioned this, you'll get a notification, is this Uh, comment okay. | ||
| And I always say yes, for the most part. | ||
| Like, unless you said something like an incitement to violence or break the law, I'm pretty much like, yeah, you got a stupid opinion, but it's fine. | ||
| Twitter should do the same thing. | ||
| It absolves them of responsibility. | ||
| It clears the bias. | ||
| Sample 100,000 random people in the country of the origin of tweet, and then let them decide. | ||
| So when Vijaya yesterday was saying, or I'll do it the other way, when these guys this morning called us Nazis and fascists and whatever, this usual nonsense that comes out talking about the two of us, do you think that would be a violation of the rules that she laid out yesterday? | ||
| Verified accounts. | ||
| Libeling people to get their people to attack you as a... I mean, one of these guys called you a Nazi propagandist. | ||
| And I think he should be allowed to. | ||
| And I'm a fascist. | ||
| I'm for him being allowed to as well, but I'm saying by the rules that she laid out yesterday, do you think that should be allowed on their platform? | ||
| By her rules, not your free speech rules. | ||
| The problem is their rules are arbitrary. | ||
|
unidentified
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I think... | |
| Well, you know, we saw a guy post a picture of Mike Cernovich in his underwear, and the first time he did it, he got a lockout. | ||
| Second time, nothing happened, is my understanding. | ||
| So that's shocking to me. | ||
| I don't care where the photo came from. | ||
| People are saying, like, oh, it was on a public website. | ||
| I don't care. | ||
| You took a photo of somebody in a compromising position and posted it without their permission? | ||
| Like, that's crazy that Twitter allows that. | ||
| Can't say I'm surprised. | ||
| Their harassment campaigns have been going on for years against conservatives that Twitter does nothing about. | ||
| So, am I surprised that this could be a violation of the rules if you do it to someone else? | ||
| Of course Twitter would ban you if you were doing it to people. | ||
| Right. | ||
|
unidentified
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We got an asymmetry problem. | |
| You look at why when she read the first tweet from Sargon as to why he got banned and he was saying he said a bunch of things like about white people and men these things are not hate speech according to Twitter he wasn't saying it to anybody directly he was saying these phrases are not hate speech and Twitter said yes it is, ban. | ||
| Well, that's why people like us who are free speech people are so frustrated with this, because it's like, look, you can clearly call a Jew a Nazi there, it's no problem, but if you called a black person the N-word, and obviously I'm not for doing that, you'd be booted in a second. | ||
| Anyone. | ||
| Now, you can argue whether you should be allowed to do that or not, but it's the subjective nature of it. | ||
| There's a slur for Jewish people that supported the Germans, the K. Kappos. | ||
| Well, I don't want to say it. | ||
| Is that allowed? | ||
| I don't know, the live stream probably just went down. | ||
| I've seen a bunch of people on the left using that, calling people out, and I'm like, dude, that's a slur. | ||
| That's an ethnic slur against Jewish people, man. | ||
| You know what? | ||
| Here's my thing. | ||
| They know they have that extra layer of protection, I mean, right? | ||
| Something funny happened at the end of the stream we did. | ||
| Where apparently it didn't go down. | ||
| So Joe said, we're done. | ||
| The mics were hot. | ||
| And now there's a conspiracy going around as to what I was talking about. | ||
| Some people have incredibly pointed out what really happened, and some people are getting conspiratorial. | ||
| After we ended, Vijaya asked me for the names of, she said, what was the Antifa tweet that doxed the cops? | ||
| And I said, it's, I gave her the link. | ||
| It's down now. | ||
| It was bit.ly slash Antifa tweet. | ||
| I believe they took it down. | ||
| She said, and can you give me the names of the accounts that were threatening you? | ||
| I said, no. | ||
| I believe in minimizing harm. | ||
| It's an ethics, part of the journalistic ethics, where my primary concern is that after Lawrence Southern got taken down from Patreon, a lot of conservatives were like pointing to It's Going Down, saying, why aren't they being taken down, but it's asymmetrical? | ||
| I reached out to Jack Conte and said, there's accusations of asymmetry based on these accounts, and Jack immediately banned It's Going Down. | ||
| So, now I said, ah, whoa, that was bad. | ||
| I did not want that to happen. | ||
| Right. | ||
| From this point on, I will never give a name to these companies so they can take action against people who I'm at odds with. | ||
| That would be me using my weight for personal gain. | ||
| Once the stream ended, she asked me for names. | ||
| I said no. | ||
| I began to explain when Lauren Southern got taken out, and then Joe's like, everybody out! | ||
| So two narratives emerged. | ||
| The first... I can already see where this is going. | ||
| The first was that... This is what most people are sharing. | ||
| Tim Pool maintained his journalistic integrity even when we didn't know the mics were live. | ||
| And I'm like, aw, that's sweet. | ||
| I'm like, happy accident. | ||
| Some people are claiming that I'm refusing to share the names because they're fake and I made it all up. | ||
| What ended up happening was after we left the room, she asked me for the names, and I was like, which names specifically though? | ||
| Like, what do you, what do you ask? | ||
| She's like, I'm not gonna ban them or anything, I just wanna know who was saying it to you. | ||
| And I was like, I don't know what you're talking, like, which, in specific, particularly, oh, the people threatening you. | ||
| And I was like, oh, that was three, three years, three, like, two or three years ago. | ||
| I have, it was just some Antifa account. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Like, I don't remember the, it wasn't anybody high profile. | ||
| Is there a weird thing also where that getting people banned, or let's say that people are threatening you with violence, or I've had people threaten me with violence, you know, like some fairly serious things, and that's the only time I've really ever reported. | ||
| Every now and again someone writes something really vile, like truly like really vile, usually some gay reference, and I'll report it just to see if Twitter does something about it, because I'm just trying to test the thing and they don't. | ||
| Of course. | ||
| But the few times that I've gotten what I think are seemingly legit death threats, they have gotten rid of the accounts, but then after they do it, and I get the email back, and it's like, we've suspended this account or terminated this account, I'm always like, did I just accomplish anything there? | ||
| Because if anything, unless that person was then, unless they used an IP address, and I wouldn't be for any of this, but unless they actually tracked down who this person was, well now we've just enraged somebody who had a lot of rage beforehand, so we probably just exacerbated the situation. | ||
| I didn't mute. | ||
| Yeah, block and mute. | ||
| I used to never block anybody. | ||
| I would just mute people who were incessant and bad faith actors. | ||
| But then I decided out of sight out of mind. | ||
| So although blocking someone doesn't prevent them from ever seeing your tweets, it makes it much less likely they'll see your tweet. | ||
| you know so i was like there's there's certain people i've blocked i think | ||
| i've blocked maybe like twenty five people bad faith actors who wait for a tweet they can pull out of | ||
| context like some of the people from yesterday with joe rogan | ||
| they take screenshots they lie about what was said but they know that their | ||
| followers will never fact check so then they just push that lie | ||
| uh... i believe that people are allowed to be crazy and stupid | ||
| So the people who are like the guy who's accusing me of being a far-right conspiracy theorist or whatever, I think he's lying. | ||
| I think he knows full well because that guy used to DM me and he was asking me to like cover certain issues up until I called him out for posting the threatening to post revenge porn of Cernovich. | ||
| Now he's angry and now he's lying. | ||
| So I'll make this clear. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So, people probably know who this guy is because there's a meme going around of me saying journalists are going to do this, then he does this. | ||
| Just to be clear, this guy was asking me to cover stories for him up until he got mad at me, and now he's claiming I'm far-right. | ||
| He's asking me for help. | ||
| Does that mean that he regularly DMs far-right conspiracy theorists that he thinks are acting in bad faith for help? | ||
| Well, this is the problem, and there's the other guy who was like, I used to be Tim Pool's roommate. | ||
| Straight-up lie. | ||
| He posted a straight-up lie, and I'm like, You want me to post the DMs? I can prove you're lying. | ||
| So is this... | ||
| So let's take this to a different meta level for a second. | ||
| Out of Twitter for just a moment. | ||
| But do you think this, the basic... | ||
| the basic quest for truth, let's say, that some people are on, | ||
| versus just the rest of this crew that wants to just watch Scorched Earth | ||
| or just destroy everything, that that really is what the culture war is about? | ||
| Because you and I have pretty significant political differences, and I know, and correct me if I'm wrong, it's irrelevant to me. | ||
| I think it's irrelevant to you. | ||
| We can do those discussions, and we've done them before. | ||
| I don't think we have to do them now because there's so many other things to talk about, but it's like, I think we both know that we're on basically the same quest for something that's true, something that's decent, that we want people to live free, but that's what the culture war really is about. | ||
| It's that you've got this little sliver of people trying, really trying, and we're dealing with people that basically act like Heath Ledger's Joker, and they want it to burn. | ||
| But I think they're sociopaths. | ||
| Left and the right's got them. | ||
| There are people that I believe on the left and the right who are grifters. | ||
| I don't know which side has more or less. | ||
| I don't publicly call people as grifters because I can never prove, even to myself, I'm like, I think something about that person. | ||
| I don't trust them, but that would be really unfair to accuse them of being disingenuous on things that they're truly passionate about. | ||
| But I think what we have kind of in the culture war is You know, I saw something on Twitter where there's this activist who works for NBC, and he's literally an activist, he's lobbied Twitter for action, so I can't call him a journalist, and he was claiming that everyone who criticized Captain Marvel or Brie Larson was an incel. | ||
| Daily Beast did a piece on it today! | ||
| And I'm like, you can't clearly think that every single person is not getting laid. | ||
| You're very clearly trying to trigger and attack people, but the important point was that... For the record, I'm getting laid and I have no desire to see it. | ||
| Well, yeah, but so the point, you know, I tried bringing up just calmly to one, it was a BuzzFeed reporter who quoted it. | ||
| I didn't argue for or against. | ||
| I said, here's what people are thinking. | ||
| And his response was that I was engaged in far right propaganda and I've lost my mind. | ||
| And I'm like, He was like, I don't see any of these conversations on Reddit, therefore it's far-right propaganda. | ||
| YouTube is dominated by far-right propaganda. | ||
| And I'm like, I realized something. | ||
| Because someone commented this. | ||
| Reddit is moderated, particularly by the companies, you know. | ||
| They want to make sure they're promoting their content, and there's very few things that can appear. | ||
| But YouTube is a very libertarian platform where whatever works, works. | ||
| It's very meritocratic. | ||
| So on YouTube, if your video is good and entertaining, people will watch it. | ||
| What does that mean? | ||
| Well, they're not incels. | ||
| It means that a lot of people are watching these videos and YouTube is saying, if people like it, we're going to show it. | ||
| That's not a rabbit hole of conspiracy theories. | ||
| It's a lot of these videos criticizing Captain Marvel. | ||
| Very simply, people saying, I'm sure the movie will do well. | ||
| I'm sure it's going to be like a moderately good Marvel film. | ||
| I just don't like Brie Larson because she's very snooty and condescending. | ||
| I'm going to sit this one out. | ||
| There are some people who are. | ||
| That's completely how I feel. | ||
| I love all the Marvel movies, love them. | ||
| Infinity War was I think the best one. | ||
| That was great. | ||
| I'm so excited for it. | ||
| The best one, I can't wait for the next one. | ||
| And I have no desire to see it because I saw her little speech. | ||
| And it's like, you know what? | ||
| I just don't want to support you. | ||
| If we keep supporting these people who are so contrary to at least the things that I believe | ||
| in it's like the only way you're gonna ever get change | ||
| because I don't want the government to stop them. | ||
| I want them to stop themselves. | ||
| But so here's the thing, I don't feel that way. | ||
| For me it's kind of that they marketed the movie as a big feminist film, Brie Larson's own words, the commercial has a big her in the screen and then A and O appear so it says a hero, and I'm like I see where they're going with this, I sat through Ghostbusters, I sat through The Last Jedi, I'm gonna sit this one out until the reviews come in. | ||
| I got no beef with Marvel or Brie Larson. | ||
| I don't like the things she says, but Chris Evans, Captain America, says crazy things too. | ||
| Oh, Mark Ruffalo makes him. | ||
| Right, right, right. | ||
| So I can separate the art from the artist, but when your marketing is overwhelmingly reminiscent | ||
| of Ghostbusters and Last Jedi, I'm gonna wait. | ||
| And I'm hearing it's boring. | ||
| You know, it's got like a 6.6 on Metacritic, and even left-wing outlets are saying | ||
| it's mediocre and boring at best. | ||
| So I'm like, maybe I won't see it. | ||
| Well, it definitely was the Nazi trolls that have screwed up the ratings. | ||
| They're already seeding that idea. | ||
| There's an outlet that wrote a story saying right-wing trolls are preparing a campaign to destroy the ratings. | ||
| And their story was, we saw one person on Twitter who said, let's do this. | ||
| And I was like, how many? | ||
| He apparently had no followers. | ||
| I'm like, random Twitter account? | ||
| Did you make it? | ||
| Like, who cares? | ||
| But that's why this also is so strange to me because we can see these trends all over the place. | ||
| So remember when there was that video of Ocasio-Cortez dancing? | ||
| Nobody cared. | ||
| And then nobody cared. | ||
| I complimented her. | ||
| I saw all the conservatives were like, all of them, all the verified conservatives that have any following of note were like, oh, this is kind of cute or I don't like her, but she's a human, blah, blah. | ||
| And then, but all the, all the, uh, the mainstream media, Conservatives going crazy. | ||
| And in most of them, they didn't link to anything or they would link to an anonymous account | ||
| that you don't even know who did that. | ||
| It was one account that said, like, she's a nitwit. | ||
| Was that Newsweek? | ||
| Which one? | ||
| It was anonymous. | ||
| No, I know, but what outlet wrote that article? | ||
| Oh, I don't know, but it was everyone. | ||
| New York Times wrote about it. | ||
| When I first saw that video, I laughed and I said, I tweeted something like, | ||
| wow, this makes her seem really relatable and endearing. | ||
| It's really, it's, I don't know. | ||
| I said, it makes her look like she's fun. | ||
| It was like a compliment. | ||
| I'm like, wow, that's really cool that we have this video of a college fun time. | ||
| They were recreating breakfast club dances. | ||
| I know that those people will lump me in with conservatives. | ||
| I don't think of me that way. | ||
| The first response I saw from literally everybody was like, LOL, this is so funny, like it's fun, haha. | ||
| But then when you see that at the political level, and we see it all the time at sort of the gamer level or the Twitter level or whatever, you realize that these themes, like it doesn't take a genius to put some of this together. | ||
| But all right, let's shift a little bit. | ||
| So first off, we're gonna do, we'll do like an hour of Q&A from the audience. | ||
| Yeah, yeah. | ||
| You down for that? | ||
|
unidentified
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Whatever. | |
| So we're gonna do that, but I wanna do a bunch more here first, but people can submit on the Super Chat right now. | ||
| Let's talk about... | ||
| My favorite organization in America. | ||
| Even more. | ||
| I like these guys even more than the Southern Poverty Hate Center. | ||
| Data & Society. | ||
| Oh, the conspiracy theory organization. | ||
| Yeah, tell me a little bit about Data & Society. | ||
| They put up a chart. | ||
| The Alternative Influencer Network. | ||
| Well, they're directly associated with the Daily Stormer. | ||
| They're directly connected to the Daily Stormer. | ||
| That's a fact. | ||
| And I've mentioned this in the past, and people on the left had the same reaction that we have to their conspiracy theory crime web. | ||
| Actually, the connection between data and society to neo-Nazism is extremely direct relative to what they claimed. | ||
| Can you just explain what Data Society is? | ||
| Data Society is a New York-based think tank of progressives that are tracking data, social media, and how it impacts society. | ||
| They do a lot of research looking into far-right and Russian interference. | ||
| One of the people—so, this is great, and I hope they're listening. | ||
| I have an insider who's been feeding me information, and I know they're working on like a Russian document right now, and the woman who's writing it tweets every three minutes about some nonsensical conspiracy theory. | ||
| And I laughed. | ||
| I'm like, it represents them very well. | ||
| But I hope they're listening, and they know that I've— Somebody inside their organization has sent me, like... So I also know that they've admitted the connections in their report, the Alternative Influence Network. | ||
| Their direct quote sent to me was, some of these are not factual. | ||
| So I have, you know... And that's how I've actually... So they admitted to you that the report was debunked? | ||
| Well, I don't want to say today. | ||
| There were errors related to me. | ||
| I mean, basically, it was just a bunch of names. | ||
| I'll say this. | ||
| I have been fed insider information, and one of the statements given to me by an individual, not from them, but through someone associated in a certain capacity. | ||
| I'm trying to be very careful not to expose, was a quote, some of these are not factual. | ||
| And there's more there, but that was a, you know. | ||
| So ultimately I just, you know, whatever. | ||
| Right, but what's interesting about it is, it's not just whatever, | ||
| because we then see how these studies, that were based in nothing other than, | ||
| oh, this person appeared with this person, or this person did a live stream with this person, | ||
| and then you link it together, and it looks like some sort of massive network | ||
| of crazy people scheming together. | ||
| And the connections are fake, some of them are. | ||
| The connections were often fake, but not only that, there was no evidence, the whole premise of it, this alternative influence network, was that this group of people that included Sam Harris and Jordan Peterson and you and me and a whole bunch of others, that we've radicalized people to the far right, when in fact there is actual data, right, that has shown that I've actually de-radicalized people of the right and made them more liberal in a lot of cases, and I've actually, not that antidote evidence is enough in and of itself, but I have a lot of evidence of that. | ||
| More importantly, it claims that YouTube channels, okay, Sam Harris, does he have a YouTube channel? | ||
| I'm pretty sure he does. | ||
| But they also mentioned James Damore, who, at least at the time, didn't. | ||
| There was four people listed that weren't YouTubers, some that were on YouTube with like 1,000 subscribers that posted one or two videos at some point, and I'm like, that's a fake narrative. | ||
| But I wanna make something absolutely clear. | ||
| There were people on that thing that I had muted on Twitter because I can't, because they're going after me, and the report is implying that we're like, Oh yeah, and they tried to dance around the nuance of understanding that. | ||
| One of the problems was, they said, these people hold views from mainstream conservative libertarian to white nationalist. | ||
| I don't fit that bracket at all. | ||
| Absolutely not. | ||
| Simply because I defend... Wait, you're not a white nationalist? | ||
| Oh yeah, my mixed race family would fit really well into a white nationalist. | ||
| My notes are completely... Oh, it's half Korean. | ||
| Quarter Korean, actually. | ||
| I'm half white nationalist. | ||
| So here's the important thing. | ||
| One of the advisors to Data & Society has appeared on numerous podcasts and praised the former web dev from The Daily Stormer. | ||
| She was heavily criticized for this, has tried coming out and making, like, you know, oh, no, no, it's just my research. | ||
| But there's a podcast from, I believe it may be from WNYC, where she's talking about, oh, this neo-Nazi guy, it's all just jokes, it's all just LOLOL, the big swastika on his chest and all these things. | ||
| It's just funny, haha. | ||
| And that's one of their advisors. | ||
| So if they want to lay accusations towards me, because I kid you not, one of their accusations was that in a video, someone walked past me. | ||
| I was at a party at VidCon where there's thousands of people I've never met. | ||
| I showed up to do an interview with a guy, and as someone's interviewing, talking to me on their camera, someone was like, walked in after the fact, and she says that connects them. | ||
| It's like, okay, I never had a word to that person. | ||
| I've never met them. | ||
| I just saw them at a party. | ||
| We didn't even shake hands. | ||
| Your organization has an advisor who has appeared on shows and praised an actual neo-Nazi. | ||
| Well, depending on who you ask, they'll say he's not really a neo-Nazi. | ||
| I don't want to drag people by naming them, but it's an individual who was one of the most notorious trolls on the planet, was associated with the Daily Stormer, has a swastika on their chest. | ||
| I'll leave it there. | ||
| And I will point out, too, people who know the woman and this man will say it's unfair to characterize them in that manner. | ||
| But if we're going by the standards set by data and society, you literally have A woman who's written a book and defended to the extent where she said, it's just a joke, it's just a game, it's funny. | ||
| Well, tell that to them. | ||
| They should tell it to themselves. | ||
| If they think it's funny to get a tattoo of a swastika on your chest and to make horrifying jokes about marginalized communities, that's their standard for what's funny, or at least one of their advisors. | ||
| I have to question their motives when they want to accuse me of being a gateway to anything. | ||
| Maybe you should look internally, you know, clean your room before trying to change the world, right? | ||
| It's right over there. | ||
| What do you make of the fact that these reports come out, and then immediately HuffPo, Daily Beast, everybody jumps on board them, Vox did a big piece on it, Ezra Klein even tagged me in the tweet devoting the article to me, that they all then use it as, oh, we've got evidence of it, and evidence that these are the alt-right radicalists and that you're making turning people into white nationalists | ||
| and I'm turning people into homophobes or some ridiculous nonsense. | ||
| But what I think is most fascinating about it is it's like if you look at the people in that group, | ||
| most of them are sort of self-funded or Patreon or YouTubers. | ||
| Some of them probably have other jobs. | ||
| Meanwhile, Vox is funded by like hundreds of millions of dollars of VC money, you know what I mean? | ||
| And they feel the need to go after Chris Ragon, who's a freaking idiot, a guy I like a lot. | ||
| He's a Bernie bro. | ||
| He's a Bernie bro video game. | ||
| So it shows you that the power really has shifted where they know it's like, | ||
| Yeah, you're really losing. | ||
| You know what I mean? | ||
| What annoyed me about the Ezra Klein thing, he said, this really is the reactionary right. | ||
| And I'm like, I made a documentary, an hour-long documentary about institutional racism. | ||
| I have only ever defended social justice policy in terms of the problems of institutional racism, the importance of protecting marginalized communities. | ||
| My issue is that I'm on the libertarian spectrum towards the left. | ||
| These are people who are hippie, pot-smoking, sit on the beach with dreads and chill. | ||
| These are the people I align with. | ||
| Skateboarders. | ||
| We want to be left alone, but we're all friends, and we want to have hugs, and we want to have vegan food. | ||
| People I've known my whole life. | ||
| So we're the kind of people who are like, no, no, man, we should do the best to cooperate and end these oppressive things. | ||
| But you silencing other people, you accusing other people, smearing them, attacking them, and being racist are things I don't agree with. | ||
| Linda Sarsour was just dragging Nancy Pelosi for being a white feminist who supports white patriarchy. | ||
| And I'm like, yes, I agree that we should respect all peoples of different faiths and national origins, gender, identity, etc. | ||
| You're not doing that. | ||
| You are literally trying to weaponize the color of this woman's skin. | ||
| If there's a racist in the equation, it's Linda Sarsour. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| So how is it that that makes me reactionary right when I'm actually in favor of upholding the tenets of social justice without being an authoritarian mean person? | ||
| I'm gonna avoid swearing, you know. | ||
| Here, let's do the political thing quick. | ||
| Are you for gay marriage? | ||
| Well, yeah, of course. | ||
| Me too. | ||
| Okay, that's pretty lefty. | ||
| Are you for abortion? | ||
| You're pro-choice? | ||
| I'm pro-choice. | ||
| I'm pro-choice too. | ||
| Okay, that seems pretty lefty. | ||
| There's nuance there too. | ||
| Are you against the death penalty? | ||
| Absolutely against the death penalty. | ||
| I am against the death penalty too. | ||
| Are you for strong public education? | ||
| Yeah, 100%. | ||
| Me too. | ||
| Are you for euthanasia? | ||
| Dignity with death? | ||
| You know, that you have a right to decide at the end of your life. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. | |
| Yeah, that's a pretty lefty thing. | ||
| Right to try, what is it, the experimental medications? | ||
| Yeah, absolutely. | ||
| Now, I'll go one step further than you. | ||
| That's more of a libertarian thing. | ||
| I'm for a progressive tax. | ||
| I'm in favor of a minimum wage. | ||
| Both of these things come with caveats. | ||
| I'm completely against both of those. | ||
| You can go on the lefty run now if you want. | ||
| And I believe that we should do student loan forgiveness. | ||
| I believe that there's a bunch of other areas. | ||
| I think there's a discussion there. | ||
| Yep, yep. | ||
| So I can go on, but it's like, it's crazy when I say I supported Bernie and people are like, he's lying. | ||
| And I'm like, watch my videos. | ||
| I'll point out the insanity of the Green New Deal. | ||
| The second page of the Green New Deal is like racial equity. | ||
| Equity is not equality. | ||
| Why is my environmental bill being plagued by identitarianism? | ||
| That makes me angry. | ||
| I like environmentalism. | ||
| I'm in favor of environmental regulation. | ||
| I've been in this business all of my life. | ||
| It's crazy to me. | ||
| And the funny thing is, I made a video about Linda Sarsour dragging Nancy Pelosi today, and I thought it was funny how, like, I've actually probably complimented Nancy Pelosi, even though I don't like the corporatist mainstream Democrats. | ||
| Because I thought about it, and I'm like, well, my only real gripe with her is how she handles her business with Trump. | ||
| Not really her position. | ||
| She mocked the Green New Deal and I agree with her. | ||
| So there's a lot of mainstream Democrats that, you know, I don't care for mainstream, moderate Republicans, Democrats. | ||
| I don't care about that. | ||
| My concern is cultural politics, ground-level protest. | ||
| What do I see? | ||
| Do we have far-right white nationalists on the Republican side of Congress? | ||
| Well, there are some people you can level accusations against. | ||
| Steve King got removed from a bunch of committees. | ||
| But what else do you have? | ||
| Not too much, but the left is going to claim Trump is. | ||
| He isn't. | ||
| Then you're going to have on the left, you have Kirsten Gillibrand, the future is female | ||
| intersectional. | ||
| Oh, that's identitarianism. | ||
| I don't like that. | ||
| You have Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, Green New Deal, identitarianism. | ||
| You have Ilhan Omar, Rashida Tlaib. | ||
| They're all identitarians. | ||
| So I look at the left and I'm like, all of these people want to enact policy based on | ||
| the color of someone's skin. | ||
| I've experienced that in my life, from the left and the right, and I do not want to live | ||
| in that world, where I've had white people, you know, white supremacists vandalize my | ||
| family's home when I was little. | ||
| My mom explains to us that this is part of the world, people who don't like mixed race | ||
| I go to Occupy Wall Street. | ||
| My God, did I get to experience the beauty of being not white or a person of color because you're mixed? | ||
| And the people on the left say, you're too white, you don't get to speak. | ||
| But I'm mixed, too bad. | ||
| Then you have other people saying, I only will listen to you because you're mixed. | ||
| I'm like, well, which one is which? | ||
| Who do I? | ||
| I hate it. | ||
| I hate all of it. | ||
| I don't want it. | ||
| What do you think if we were really doing like the Psych 101 on this condition? | ||
| Because I actually am starting to think it's sort of like a mental condition. | ||
| It's a mass mental condition that's going on because it's not based in fact. | ||
| So no matter how much you explain to these people that you're for the individual and you want everyone to live free and you're not a bigot and... The opposite of fascism. | ||
| And all of these things and the opposite of... Right. | ||
| They're closer to fascists than we would ever be. | ||
| Well, the verified guy who's calling me a fascist today also tagged Stitcher Radio in the tweet because they're my hosting service. | ||
| Now, they don't host my podcast anyway. | ||
| We're released on Stitcher on many things. | ||
| But I thought, who's acting as a fascist here? | ||
| Me, the guy defending individual rights and freedom, or the guy who's attacking me, calling me a fascist, and trying to get me booted off a platform? | ||
| One of those has more fascism in it than the other. | ||
| I think, at a certain level, that it was partly an accident, but partly on purpose, that this culture came to exist. | ||
| People who are racist realized people hate racism. | ||
| What do you do? | ||
| Claim to fight racism and empower racists. | ||
| So what do we see? | ||
| Antifa shows up in Portland screaming racial slurs at police. | ||
| Screaming racial slurs at... Criticize Patriot Prayer all you want. | ||
| They've said and done really awful things. | ||
| There have been videos of Tiny punching someone starting a fight. | ||
| I've seen it all. | ||
| But at the same time, point out the people who run Patriot Prayer are not white. | ||
| So when white people show up, white progressives claiming they're anti-racist, screaming racial slurs at police, screaming racial slurs at conservatives, by all means, have your disagreements with that group, but I'm pretty sure you're the racist, even by your own standard. | ||
| And that's what I mean about a mass mental condition, because you know, Brett Weinstein, | ||
| when the whole thing was happening at Evergreen State, he kept saying, I thought this was the most fascinating | ||
| part of the whole thing, beyond the absurdity of, you know, being called a racist | ||
| for not wanting the school to be segregated. | ||
| Putting that aside, he said that the students that he actually feared were not the minority students. | ||
| It was the white students behind them who had that look of, you know, | ||
| we've got the bat and we're gonna kill you. | ||
| Because they have to really prove it, right? | ||
| They have to really prove it. | ||
| They're a form of white supremacists. | ||
| I've explained it this way for years. | ||
| You have what's called a right-wing white supremacist. | ||
| These are people who believe that white people should be supreme, and that they try to accomplish that. | ||
| And do you think these people have any... Well, you already said no. | ||
| I mean, look, there are absolutely some people in power who hold these views. | ||
| I think it would be absurd not to think so. | ||
| But I don't think it's as widespread as the left tries to claim it is to any degree. | ||
| Right, like it's not being taught at universities. | ||
| No, of course it's the opposite. | ||
| But here's the thing. | ||
| The left wing white supremacy is the idea that white people are supreme. | ||
| And so you end up with white people believing they're the white saviors that must force other white people to do as they're told. | ||
| And so it gets really weird then when these left-wing individuals who believe that white people are supreme tell minorities what to do. | ||
| I've told this story a couple times. | ||
| We'll do a couple more minutes here and then we're going to do a Q&A. | ||
| So get your questions in on Super Chat right now. | ||
| But one of my real wake-up moments to all of this, I was on TYT once and they were playing a clip of Fox News and you might know David Webb who's a conservative who happens to be black. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| We were friends from our old Sirius XM days and we used to go out to dinner and have drinks | ||
| and whatever, and one of the hosts, a white progressive, who didn't know David, nor knew that I knew him, | ||
| kept saying that he's the token black guy. | ||
| And it's like, he's the Uncle Tom, he's the whatever you wanna call it. | ||
| And that was one of the first moments for me where it was so obvious what it was. | ||
| Because I know David, and I know he believes what he's believed. | ||
| David's the one that he was on with Areva Martin, who's a progressive also, and she... And she didn't know he was black. | ||
| Right, so I mentioned him, I was like, oh yeah. | ||
| And she called him out for his white privilege, and then he goes... That's what they do. | ||
| He goes, well, I'm black. | ||
| And then she goes, my people gave me the wrong information. | ||
| As if that's true. | ||
| Like, oh, who are you speaking to? | ||
| Is it a white guy or a black guy? | ||
| During Occupy Wall Street, there was an argument about the merit of work or something. | ||
| I said a few things and was told that as a white person I didn't understand, and my opinions were invalid because I could never understand being a marginalized person, and then I said, I'm actually mixed race. | ||
| And the response was? | ||
| Oh, I see what you're saying now. | ||
| No, no. | ||
| Oh, I get it now. | ||
| And I laugh. | ||
| I'm like, I'm like, you're racist. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Like you'll only listen to me because you think I'm not white. | ||
| Like, you're a racist. | ||
| It's the soft bigotry of low expectations. | ||
| Also, it's like, would you ever want that? | ||
| Like, I'm getting a big goddamn deal. | ||
| I would never want anyone to give me anything other than equality, which you don't give me. | ||
| So Amber Tamblyn, there's a story that was out today or yesterday about Amber Tamblyn saying she's not going to vote for Bernie. | ||
| She wants to support a woman. | ||
| And she said something like, we now have a choice. | ||
| And to me, I thought that was crazy. | ||
| I'm like, as much as I am excited for the people of color and women who are running for office, I certainly think that their perspectives will bring a unique value to our political climate. | ||
| I wouldn't base my vote on the color of their skin or their gender. | ||
| But here is someone who actually says, Bernie, you're great, but woman. | ||
| And I'm like, That doesn't mean your ideas are good. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| There's a certain perspective you might hold that might be valuable. | ||
| If that's expressed, I would vote for the expressed perspective. | ||
| But I'm not going to be like, I won't vote for a man. | ||
| What are you going to do? | ||
| What if female Hitler emerges? | ||
| Are you going to be like, well, it's a woman. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Are you going to vote for a, like that's crazy. | ||
| Well, I hate to tell you this as a Bernie guy, but they're coming for Bernie. | ||
| Well, I'll say this. | ||
| At the end of the day, by the next year and a half of an election, Bernie is the old white | ||
| guy. | ||
| He already is. | ||
| He already is. | ||
| And he will be done and destroyed by his own creation. | ||
| And this is why I was... | ||
| And that's a beautiful thing in a weird way. | ||
| In 2015, this is an important story, I was walking with one of my co-workers at Fusion, | ||
| frothing at the mouth about how much I loved Bernie. | ||
| I was ranting loudly, like, going through all the things he said and done. | ||
| Here's the important thing people don't realize. | ||
| In 2015, Bernie Sanders says no open borders. | ||
| That's a Koch Brothers proposal. | ||
| He says his free trade agreements destroyed manufacturing in this country. | ||
| We need stronger borders. | ||
| Illegal immigration is bad because it's hurting the middle class and the lower class, and I'm like, He also talked about student loan forgiveness, expanding programs. | ||
| He's a little too left for me in a lot of areas, but I was like, this is a guy who means it. | ||
| It's one of the first times, but more importantly, out of everything he was saying, gun issue. | ||
| It's an urban versus rural debate. | ||
| I'm like, wow, that's true. | ||
| There's a very dramatic difference in perspective here. | ||
| I was like, this guy's telling the truth. | ||
| What happens once he gets on stage? | ||
| White people don't know what it's like to be poor. | ||
| Whoa, whoa, whoa, Bernie. | ||
| That was pretty good. | ||
| Oh, I wasn't even trying. | ||
| I'm like, that's not true. | ||
| What's going on here? | ||
| Then he goes, we must get equal pay for women. | ||
| And I'm like, we have three laws in place already. | ||
| Bernie, what are you doing? | ||
| Now I'm looking at the future we're in, and I'm like, Bernie decided to endorse Hillary, and he started pushing this narrative that has stabbed him. | ||
| It's backfired on him. | ||
| Now they're saying, I won't vote for a white man. | ||
| Sorry, Bernie. | ||
| Bye. | ||
| Yeah, congrats. | ||
| Like, there you go. | ||
| That's what you got. | ||
| White man with three houses. | ||
| Don't forget the three houses. | ||
| I will say this, though. | ||
| I still lean in his direction. | ||
| I do think he's a little further to the left than I am. | ||
| But even after all of these things, if I was going to vote, and I probably won't because I don't trust anybody, if I would vote, he still has some brownie points from me. | ||
| I still do like him. | ||
| But I think he shouldn't have endorsed Hillary. | ||
| He shouldn't have pushed the identitarian stuff. | ||
| And that really, really pushed me away from him. | ||
| It did. | ||
| So I'm taking a close look at Tulsi Gabbard right now. | ||
| And I don't know if there's anyone else I'd actually be interested in. | ||
| And I don't know a lot about Tulsi, so I don't want to say like I definitely would vote for her, but there's a lot of things I like about her in terms of anti-imperialism, no intervention in foreign wars and things like that. | ||
| That sounds very Trumpian, too. | ||
| Well, but it's libertarian, right? | ||
| So you can be a right libertarian, left libertarian. | ||
| The difference is, what really bothers me is people always show the political compass, and they say Antifa is left-libertarian. | ||
| That is not true. | ||
| Antifa uses violence to force an ideology onto other people. | ||
| Left-libertarian are people with dreadlocks and peace symbols. | ||
| They're sitting on a beach going, you know, whatever, and they want to be left alone, but they're cooperative. | ||
| Anarcho-communism. | ||
| It exists. | ||
| It's simple. | ||
| It's ten people who live on a farm, and one person grows corn, one person, you know, cooks meat, and they just share, and there's no real debate about who's doing more than the other. | ||
| There's no quantification of the value. | ||
| Anarcho-communism works really, really well in small groups. | ||
| It works really, really bad when you have to connect different communities to each other and quantify the amount of labor versus the value being given, in which case currency becomes extremely important, and communism doesn't work at large scales without killing millions of people and getting into You're saying it might not be the perfect solution for a | ||
| capitalist system of 350-some-odd million people with different thoughts? | ||
| And the annoying thing to me is I believe in a mixed economy. | ||
| You have to have aspects of a free market. | ||
| You have to have some regulatory controls. | ||
| I believe social programs are important because laissez-faire capitalism, in my opinion, results | ||
| in runaway corporations and then it's snowflakes in an avalanche, right? | ||
| So I often use the Clean Water Restoration Act as an example. | ||
| The Clean Water Restoration Act came out, and I could be getting my data wrong, it's been 15 years since I worked for these environmental organizations, after a river in Ohio started on fire because a bunch of different companies were dumping pollution, but at not very large levels. | ||
| So individually, they're like, look, I'm not doing anything. | ||
| It's a minor amount. | ||
| You needed someone to look at the bigger picture and be like, guys, it's on fire, and it's because all of you together make a big problem. | ||
| So a social contract was formed, and everyone agreed to it, and there's someone to enforce it. | ||
| So I believe that's where I get with regulation. | ||
| But that's why I believe unchecked capitalism results in unfortunate veering off in random directions, which can cause problems. | ||
| All right, so let's just do a little bit of YouTube before we go too far politics-wise. | ||
| There's a little more on YouTube, and then we'll do the Q&A. | ||
| So what do you make of what's going on on YouTube? | ||
| Because I get people every day, and I'm not talking about the trolls and the Reddit losers and all that. | ||
| I'm talking about real people who I know. | ||
| I mean, it's often people that I've met at events who email me and say, Dave, I got unsubscribed from your channel. | ||
| I call out YouTube on it all the time. | ||
| Once, years ago, I had an email address of someone at YouTube. | ||
| They actually gave me an email address, and someone at YouTube told me there was a bug on my channel. | ||
| Then when I followed up, they stopped responding, and then eventually they told me to not email them anymore. | ||
| Oh yeah, yeah, and didn't you have like a live stream locked in place? | ||
| Was that you? | ||
| Oh yeah, we had a live, so if you'd go to my homepage, you know, youtube.com slash RubinReport, the video on the front would always say, the RubinReport is now live, even though we weren't, so people would just click away. | ||
| Point is, without getting into all the bugs or just Crimea River, all of this shit, all of this shit that we all kind of know, unsubscribes, videos not going to feeds, the demonetization, they demonetized my video with Peter Boghossian and James Lindsay about, you know, all of those things. | ||
| It's really complicated. | ||
| So I'm just shoveling stuff at you. | ||
| I made a video, Jon Stewart praised the Trump administration over the handling of the 9-11 Victims Fund. | ||
| I made a video, and I said, Jon Stewart praises Trump over 9-11 Victims Fund, and the point of that video was, I agree with Jon Stewart wholeheartedly, cut the politics out, these are people who sacrifice their lives to save lives, and I fully agree with doing everything we have to to take care of our first responders. | ||
| The video was doing well, but it listed no views. | ||
| Until I took 9-11 out and changed it with first responders. | ||
| All of a sudden, the views reappeared. | ||
| I made another video about a woman, a Muslim woman from Egypt, who was being berated by another woman in a parking lot. | ||
| And the point I was making with that video is, I typically don't make videos about this because these people are being shamed already. | ||
| It's like, of course I don't agree with running up to a Muslim person and screaming at them, and so this poor woman, I'm wholly in her defense. | ||
| And that was throttled to an extreme degree, probably because it was about, you know, Islam or Muslim or something. | ||
| And so, first, I'll say Hanlon's Razor. | ||
| Never a tribute to Malice, which is easily explained by incompetence. | ||
| The demonetization thing is seemingly random. | ||
| So, my mom makes math videos. | ||
| They get demonetized. | ||
| Nothing in them. | ||
| It's like, 2 plus 2 is 4, and it's demonetized. | ||
| I made a video where I went to a raccoon cafe in Japan with my buddy Luke, and we're literally just feeding raccoons and giggling while hokey family music plays, because I thought it would be a fun video to make, demonetized. | ||
| So I get that a lot of it could be random and it could be just, you know, just ineptitude and all that. | ||
| The one that I just mentioned, though, where it already had a couple hundred thousand views with Peter and, you know, we're talking about the Circle hoax and all that. | ||
| It's all about academia. | ||
| I mean, this is not something that couldn't have an ad on it. | ||
| It got through the algorithm and it was monetized at first and then it was manually... Confirmed by manual review. | ||
| Confirmed by manual review, unmonetized. | ||
| Then I had to fight it publicly and they monetized it again. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Finding it a second time is evidence. | ||
| That's what I'm saying. | ||
| The reason I always do this is because this is the only course of, I don't like doing it, but it's the only course of action we have. | ||
| And this is then where I think some of the lefties would say, and now some of the Trump people would say, government regulation. | ||
| They own all the pipes. | ||
| They own all the information. | ||
| So I'll say this. | ||
| I said earlier I would welcome regulation against Twitter because I believe it's becoming so detrimental, especially after talking to Jack and Vijaya. | ||
| That really tells you how the conversation went. | ||
| Well, they looked me in the eyes and said, we are going to do what we think is right. | ||
| We are an unelected, listen, Twitter is an unelected council of the uber elite millionaires who are dictating what people can or can't say on one of the most important public platforms in our country, in the world. | ||
| Who determined they should have that influence over our elections? | ||
| I don't like Citizens United. | ||
| And yes, I understand the nuances with, you know, taking away the right to speech through money means that mass media companies will hold too much power. | ||
| It's complicated. | ||
| I don't want billionaires dictating our elections. | ||
| I don't want oligopolies forming. | ||
| And I certainly don't want Twitter joining their party. | ||
| I see them say this, and I say, you know what? | ||
| Maybe the best thing would be a sledgehammer right now, because the debate is basically over. | ||
| They said basically, we allow speech on our platform if you follow our rules. | ||
| Well, we know people are getting elected through your platform, and you've excised a large portion of the population. | ||
| Knock it down. | ||
| Here's the problem. | ||
| Regulation wouldn't actually work on YouTube or any other platforms | ||
| because you can't regulate to create technology. | ||
| The government can't go to YouTube and say, you must invent something. | ||
| Something just happened recently in Canada. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Well, no, but they could say you have to treat all traffic equally. | |
| You have to make sure. | ||
| It's impossible. | ||
| Wait, what do you mean? | ||
| What do you mean? | ||
| So, YouTube, absolutely impossible. | ||
| Twitter, it's more possible. | ||
| Because Twitter could just timeline it, like everything is chronological, we're done. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Bannings will be based on First Amendment. | ||
| YouTube, when you go to YouTube.com, there's 15 videos they show you that you can see. | ||
| There's 10, and then there's another bracket below, which usually is like a single person's channel. | ||
| They have to have an algorithm to determine what they should feed you. | ||
| Otherwise, no one gets any content fed to them at all. | ||
| Right, so I get it. | ||
| It's not in a purely chronological feed that Twitter is. | ||
| YouTube doesn't work that way. | ||
| Again, I'm not for this, so it's hard to take this position. | ||
| But if the government came in, there is something they could say that would probably make it. | ||
| Fairer. | ||
| I would not be for this. | ||
| So with demonetization, you have no right to an advertiser. | ||
| YouTube is acting as your agent to sell ads. | ||
| Absolutely. | ||
| Absolutely. | ||
| And even when you're demonetized, you still get a little bit. | ||
| When it comes to promotion, the YouTube algorithm right now is probably one of the best meritocratic systems for content. | ||
| If your content is good, like, I've had unprecedented growth, like, in my career with YouTube. | ||
| It took me years. | ||
| I've been doing this for, you know, what, eight years now, and I hit 100,000 subs in like three months of actively being on YouTube. | ||
| It took me six years to get that on Twitter. | ||
| Because Twitter is about, are people going to share your content? | ||
| Well, what works on Twitter is rage, anger, calling someone a Nazi. | ||
| You'll get retweets. | ||
| That gets you followers. | ||
| On YouTube, it's making compelling content. | ||
| So YouTube's way better in my opinion. | ||
| The government will not be able to regulate YouTube into working better. | ||
| They won't. | ||
| So regulation won't work for Twitter. | ||
| I'm sorry, it won't work for YouTube. | ||
| It will work for Twitter and Facebook. | ||
| YouTube could regulate, uh, could be regulated in certain capacities, like, uh, Mumkey Jones deserves every shoutout I get possible whenever I do a video. | ||
| His channel was deleted without breaking any rules. | ||
| He made really edgy content. | ||
| He made fun of Elliot Rodger, that's, that, that shooter, that incel shooter, and it was very clearly mocking this guy, but for whatever reason, YouTube said, Terminated his channel. | ||
| And I still think it's important to point out YouTube does better than most other platforms in terms of protecting the rights of speech. | ||
| I really do believe that because I'll give you an example. | ||
| Sargon said a naughty word on YouTube. | ||
| It's still there. | ||
| It's still there. | ||
| Patreon banned him. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| So YouTube was like, this video is not stripped of any rights or anything. | ||
| We understand the context. | ||
| And so I can respect YouTube still pointing out. | ||
| Mumkey's ban was insane. | ||
| It's terrifying. | ||
| Yeah, and again, I'm with you that I would chalk a lot of this up to just general ineptitude or just that the thing has become so big, you know, it's a Goliath now and, you know, maybe it can't withstand its own thing and the political forces and everything else, but I'm still not for regulating any of them. | ||
| But it's an interesting... I've had this discussion with many people and it's an interesting conversation to have. | ||
| YouTube is also really important for elections, but the system, the algorithm is, it's meritocratic, meaning... Well, what if you knew tomorrow that within the algorithm, they were doing something to limit the scope of your videos, the ability for your own subscribers to get your videos? | ||
| I have three channels. | ||
| So you have three channels, or they were making sure that your people were being unsubscribed, or a series of other things that there is often much evidence to believe is happening, Then what do you do? | ||
| Hedge your bets. | ||
| This is why I started a second channel, and now I'm launching Subverse. | ||
| I recognize that trying to make a living just off of YouTube alone isn't a safe bet, because I've seen the past. | ||
| It's not just us that's been affected by this. | ||
| There are people who just, not even for political reasons, YouTube will say we need to change the algorithm for X reason, and then all of a sudden someone's traffic drops by 80%. | ||
| So I recognize there's politics behind a lot of it. | ||
| I trust that YouTube for the most part is trying its best, but I do think that they're going to take a utilitarian approach in that, Mumkey Jones, delete his channel even though he didn't break any rules because he's a threat to us. | ||
| That's BS. | ||
| And that worries me a lot. | ||
| But ultimately I think the only thing you can really do is make alternate channels and keep trying to figure out and | ||
| evolve. You can't just cross your fingers and hope YouTube... Because here's the thing, | ||
| look, youtube.com has 15 videos, and that's the majority of most people's content. When | ||
| someone goes to youtube.com, your video is there. YouTube has no obligation to promote | ||
| you when they do that, and there's no guarantee your content will always fit what the | ||
| algorithm wants. So you make content, you're skyrocketing. Are you over a million yet? | ||
| You're really close to a million? | ||
| Well, we were right under it, but I probably would have been there a year ago, but... Yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| So, you're doing really well, everything's working, but because your content is the same, YouTube changes the algorithm, like, tweaks it several times a day. | ||
| One day your traffic might just vanish, and it's not political, and you won't know why. | ||
| Right, so it's the sort of lack of transparency, and maybe there's interesting arguments why there has to be a certain lack of transparency. | ||
| Yeah, because when they were more open with it, it was all gamed, and the videos were awful. | ||
| I remember back in the day, there would be a video called something stupid, like Big Beautiful Woman bouncing on beach balls, and you click it, and it's a black screen, because they just want you to click it. | ||
| Well, I mean, I started this show on TYT, and that's what they taught us how to do, all of the worst type of clickbait. | ||
| I mean, it just is. | ||
| I'm not even besmirching them. | ||
| That was just the game then. | ||
| They taught us how to do the worst type of clickbait. | ||
| There's a reason why there's so many videos where it's like Ben Shapiro destroys with logic and facts. | ||
| It's because that structure was working for the algorithm and it still does. | ||
| And for the most part, the structure of like an all caps word, I do it too. | ||
| It's because YouTube finds it acceptable to just emphasize a word. | ||
| You can't do a bold. | ||
| And you can't convey emphasis on words through text without doing a capital or something. | ||
| So that's a technique that works in the algorithm to get people to, like, catch the word. | ||
| And emphasis is important in conveying the meaning of your sentence. | ||
| So, yeah, whatever. | ||
| All right, so let's just do one other thing, and then we'll get to the Q&A, which is piggybacking off what you just said. | ||
| So, I can sense you're totally okay, basically, with what's going on here, because you're growing. | ||
| Like, your business is growing, you're doing journalism that you love. | ||
| You strike me as one of the only, sort of... Well... | ||
| Well, what? | ||
| Well, I was gonna say, am I okay with it? | ||
| Well, no, no, but my point being is like, we're watching all of the Learn to Code crowd that was trying to get everybody, all the trolls or whatever, banned. | ||
| It's like, they're, you know, BuzzFeed's laying off people, HuffPo got rid of the editorial staff, Vox is horrible, Daily Beast is crap, like all of these things, they're just giant monsters of crap who have lied to everybody for so long, and it's all, nobody cares about any of it, but what I'm watching right now, and this is the reason I'm hopeful, is a, Just by the very nature of what I'm doing and I'm very proud of it and I think it's growing and it's good. | ||
| I think I see guys like you, I see guys like Andy Ngo, Nick Monroe on Twitter who does an interesting, he's doing actual journalism, he's leveraging Twitter for actual journalism. | ||
| I'm seeing people take technology, use it their own way. | ||
| Peterson and I are working on this platform. | ||
| I think there's so much hopefulness here. | ||
| I have good news for you. | ||
| Yeah, give me some good news before we do the Q&A. | ||
| One of the main reasons YouTube takes action against channels is because the culture war. | ||
| These digital journalists who write these absurd stories put pressure on advertisers and then YouTube has to do something to stop the bleed. | ||
| As these companies lay more and more people off, there's less people to write lies about | ||
| us and that means YouTube is less constrained. | ||
| So I get really frustrated when people point the finger at YouTube on things YouTube didn't | ||
| do wrong. | ||
| Point the fingers at the things they did wrong. | ||
| Again, Mumkey Jones, that was wrong. | ||
| But a lot of issues like demonetization, people think demonetization is someone at YouTube | ||
| trying to take your money away. | ||
| It's like, no, no, no. | ||
| YouTube just lost their money, too. | ||
| They don't want to demonetize you if they don't have to, but they're scared of these fringe, identitarian weirdos at these media companies who want to call you an incel, and YouTube is trying to do its best to make sure... Here's this thing. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Look. | |
| You still get YouTube Red revenue when you get demonetized, 100%. | ||
| That is YouTube putting up a barrier to protect you from these lunatics who are lying about you. | ||
| So YouTube does things wrong, absolutely, but they're doing better than a lot. | ||
| And I truly believe that once these companies collapse under the weight of their own incompetence and other cultural problems, I think YouTube's going to be more free to be like, you guys, we got you. | ||
| So, I mean, look, the fact that you're allowed to exist doing this, You speak truth to power in a lot of ways. | ||
| You do things that would never be allowed by some of these people at these media companies. | ||
| They would never allow you to have certain people in here to talk about these things. | ||
| YouTube has opened the door in a lot of ways, continues to, and while they have mistakes, I'm hopeful because I know people at YouTube. | ||
| I've known them for years. | ||
| I think there's absolutely an ideological bent to a lot of people. | ||
| I do have some sources that work within Google have shared information that I don't think it's as bad as a lot of people think it is. | ||
| I think there's some points where it gets really bad, the far-left identitarianism within the company, but there's a lot of really hopeful things in the area of free speech and protecting rights that I think Google is aware of that other companies don't care about. | ||
| Yeah, well I'm glad to hear that. | ||
| That's a nice way to wrap up this first half that we're doing here, and I would just add to that that Yeah, I'm incredibly appreciative of YouTube. | ||
| Look, my life is fucking amazing because of this. | ||
| Absolutely. | ||
| This is great, I love this. | ||
| Protect it. | ||
| Right, so when I'm fighting it, and I always say I'm tired of fighting you guys, and it's like, give me, I don't have an email address, give me an email address, you know? | ||
| And it's like, if you guys would just be a little bit better, I think they'd get a lot of credit. | ||
| I don't understand why at this point, for you especially, YouTube doesn't just unlock everything. | ||
| What do they think I'm going to do tomorrow? | ||
| There have been conversations about giving people the option to choose to demonetize | ||
| themselves. | ||
| Trusted, trusted high profile. | ||
| Like you're Dave Rubin. | ||
| They can look at your videos, they know exactly what you're going to do and all these talk | ||
| shows. | ||
| It is a talk show that is in line with almost any other kind of talk show you'd see on TV | ||
| that has normal advertisers. | ||
| I don't think there's going to be a big, you know, like you're not even like Tucker Carlson | ||
| who has like activists coming at him because you're not even anywhere near where he is. | ||
| So I'm surprised YouTube hasn't come to you and says, we think you're good to go, period. | ||
| I believe the system for you should be inverted. | ||
| It should be that right now your video gets demonetized, you ask for a review. | ||
| What should happen is your video should be monetized and they should have to choose to review you because you're trusted. | ||
| You're in your studio, Dave Rubin, mainstream conversations. | ||
| But it is. | ||
| The other thing too is it's important to recognize, and I hope YouTube does too, they need to create these protections because what you're doing is the new mainstream talk show, right? | ||
| The television networks are doing really well, but these digital outlets, not so much. | ||
| In a lot of ways, this Is the professional, you know, five, seven years, five to six, seven years ago, YouTube didn't have this. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| It had like, I mean, I remember the first video I made, it's like awful. | ||
| It's just so trashy. | ||
| It got half a million views. | ||
| Did you get kicked in the nuts or did you? | ||
| Oh, no, no, it's news, but I had no idea what I was doing. | ||
| The quality was trash, but it got half a million views because YouTube didn't have this. | ||
| Now YouTube actually has a, there's a guy on YouTube who does live high profile talk shows about political issues that have serious ramifications on our culture. | ||
| And you've got a beautiful set. | ||
| And you're not the only one. | ||
| So YouTube, I'm sure they know this, and at this point, why is Seth, who's the late night talk show host? | ||
| Seth Meyers? | ||
| Seth Meyers. | ||
| He's a preferred partner and you're not? | ||
| They give him special access, they don't give you? | ||
| That's ridiculous. | ||
| If YouTube wants to see their platform grow, then they need to start coming to people like you, and they do this to a lot of people, but they absolutely need to come and give special protections and preferred access, not just to the mainstream cable channel guys, you know what I mean? | ||
| Now I owe you 5% of the monetization of this video if it gets monetized. | ||
| All right, here's what we're gonna do. | ||
| We're gonna take a one minute break and then we're gonna do super chat questions. | ||
| Get them in right now. | ||
| We'll read them live and do our thing for as long as we can. | ||
|
unidentified
|
All right, hang tight. | |
| So Still looking for anyone? | ||
| What do we do still? | ||
| I waskhud and alone for hours Let mess ist | ||
| Still looking for anyone? | ||
| I waskhud and alone for hours Let mess ist | ||
| Still looking for anyone? | ||
| I waskhud and alone for hours Let mess ist | ||
| Still looking for anyone? | ||
| I waskhud and alone for hours Let mess ist | ||
| Still looking for anyone? | ||
| I waskhud and alone for hours Let mess ist | ||
| Still looking for anyone? | ||
| I waskhud and alone for hours Let mess ist | ||
| Still looking for anyone? | ||
| I waskhud and alone for hours Let mess ist | ||
| Still looking for anyone? | ||
| I waskhud and alone for hours Let mess ist | ||
| Still looking for anyone? | ||
| I waskhud and alone for hours Let mess ist | ||
| Still looking for anyone? | ||
| I waskhud and alone for hours Let mess ist | ||
| Still looking for anyone? | ||
| I waskhud and alone for hours Let mess ist | ||
| Still looking for anyone? | ||
| I waskhud and alone for hours Let mess ist | ||
| Still looking for anyone? | ||
| I waskhud and alone for hours Let mess ist | ||
| Still looking for anyone? | ||
| I waskhud and alone for hours Let mess ist | ||
| Still looking for anyone? | ||
| I waskhud and alone for hours Let mess ist | ||
| I think that was record time. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| We peed in different bathrooms real fast. | ||
| Yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| We ran out the door. | ||
| The magic of YouTube. | ||
| All right, here we go. | ||
| Oh, before anything else, this Friday, if you're in the LA area, I'm at the Ice House Comedy Club. | ||
| It's Friday, March 8th. | ||
| It's me. | ||
| Stand up, mess around with the crowd, audience Q&A, bring in an IDW member. | ||
| There's a rumor that maybe Tim Pool will be there. | ||
| Who the hell knows? | ||
| We'll see what happens. | ||
| Okay, here we go. | ||
| I got a zillion questions here. | ||
| Keep throwing them in on Super Chat. | ||
| We'll get to as many as possible. | ||
| Tim, you're an amazing example of journalistic integrity. | ||
| I'm glad your channels are getting traction. | ||
| The fact that you stuck to your principles even when thinking the feed was down was amazing, | ||
| referencing the Rogan thing. | ||
| Do you think Vijaya was referencing abuse and harassment honestly, | ||
| or was this ideological doublespeak? | ||
| So a lot of people were frustrated with her because she kind of talks like a lawyer, | ||
| and in the nature of an open conversation, she is a lawyer, and that makes it tough. | ||
| I think she believes what she was saying. | ||
| I think, like, look when it comes to ideology. | ||
| I don't think Jack and Vijaya are lying about what they truly believe is right. | ||
| I just think they don't realize they're wielding a giant sword, | ||
| and no one ever gave them that. | ||
| Like, they have no right to that power. | ||
| So, yeah. | ||
| Is there an immediate plan for Twitter to remove lifetime bans and form a review process | ||
| for the Sargons and Milos of the world? | ||
| They mentioned it being in the pipeline or something. | ||
| To me that sounds like it's never going to happen. | ||
| It needs to. | ||
| Tim, I know you are a rather unassuming guy. | ||
| I'd like to say that you're a very good reporter and have unimpeachable integrity. | ||
| Keep up the good work. | ||
| That's not even a question. | ||
| I'm just going to read nice things to you. | ||
| Right. | ||
| I am not perfect. | ||
| I see all these things complimenting me. | ||
| I'm like, I was just saying what I felt. | ||
| And I also feel like, you know, people like to call me objective and all these things. | ||
| Like, dude, I told Joe, listen, I'm a centrist partisan. | ||
| I clearly support certain values and integrals principles. | ||
| These are the things that led me to do journalism the way I do. | ||
| I don't want to act like I'm better than anybody else. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Do you think Twitter should or does hire people like yourself that keep an ear to the ground, or they can simply hire a team to intake media like yours? | ||
| There were many cases where they pled ignorance to cultural events. | ||
| It's a lot of that. | ||
| We don't know. | ||
| We're pushing. | ||
| I asked them, why don't you open an office in a conservative area? | ||
| They said, well, our trust and safety team is global. | ||
| I think ultimately what happens is they're trying to decide what is or isn't right, and they think they're smarter than 200 years of history and precedent set by our institutions and our founding fathers and our ancestors. | ||
| They're not. | ||
| But they believe they are. | ||
| It's a level of arrogance that is, in my opinion, it's normal human arrogance, and it takes a certain understanding of philosophy to say, I can never know what's right for hundreds of millions of people. | ||
| I need to break up my power and disperse it. | ||
| Jack seems to understand this concept when he talks about distributed networks and blockchain and stuff, and I wonder why then he won't say, you know, the power, the Triforce of Twitter needs to be fractured and sent out in different directions. | ||
| The power needs to be distributed. | ||
| It's too much for one person. | ||
| So you're saying that perhaps a distributed social network could be the solution to some of this. | ||
| If only if some people were working on something like that. | ||
| Is that what, is that what... Oh well, I'm just reading questions here and just adding thoughts that pop into my head. | ||
| But I will add, that's been, that's like, I think you're in a race right now with a ton of other people. | ||
| That's a beautiful thing, I love that race, right? | ||
| There was Diaspora. | ||
| Yep. | ||
| Are you familiar with Diaspora? | ||
| I mean, people sent me links to all sorts of different things. | ||
| And now we, obviously, Mines is trying to create, it's a really interesting model. | ||
| It's got a central nucleus with semi-decentralized, which could work. | ||
| And I've been using that for my group organizing. | ||
| So we'll see. | ||
| Yeah, well, look, that's a beautiful thing. | ||
| Let the competition go and then maybe some of them will end up merging. | ||
| Competition is great. | ||
| Yeah, that's what it's all about. | ||
| Thanks for the stream, fellas. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Hey, Reuben, do you think, oh, hey, Reuben, hey, Tim, do you think that Trump will ever do a live stream with a YouTuber? | ||
| Also, Tim, thanks for your reporting. | ||
| Much appreciated. | ||
| I think eventually he will. | ||
| I think he's still like, I hope he will come in here and it will be bananas. | ||
| If I ever thought I got hate, it'll raise it to a whole new level. | ||
| But my feeling is that eventually, he's using the mainstream media as their perfect rock | ||
| and a hard place thing as long as he can. | ||
| And eventually something will shift, the symmetry will shift, and he'll have to do something | ||
| like that. | ||
| You know, the challenge for me is on Trump is like, I can criticize him all day, but | ||
| the media literally does that nonstop 24 hours. | ||
| I feel like I'm not adding anything to the conversation to point out why I agree with why they criticize him. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I also think it's insane. | ||
| Like Trump derangement syndrome is a serious problem. | ||
| You can clearly look at the things he's done that are working and not be a lunatic. | ||
| And it's like, whatever. | ||
| I don't want to get on Trump. | ||
| I will rant. | ||
| I work for a major newly acquired tech company. | ||
| I'm a senior engineer. | ||
| Not many people are savvy to search algorithms. | ||
| How do we verify that our data is factual in an era where our sensors are few but powerful? | ||
| I mean, this comes up all the time, right? | ||
| Oh, you can. | ||
| I mean, look, people—you have a group of people who trust the mainstream media. | ||
| And Glenn Greenwald tweeted, I feel sorry—I genuinely feel sorry for the MSN—you know, he was referencing MSNBC viewers, who for years have been told Trump is working for Putin and all stuff. | ||
| And now that we're hearing the Mueller report is going to be anticlimactic and there's probably nothing in it, they're— Losing their minds. | ||
| Like, oh no, our narrative, what do you do? | ||
| Well, you can't trust anybody. | ||
| It's insane. | ||
| I'm surprised. | ||
| I don't know what to tell you, man. | ||
| It worries me. | ||
| I stay up at night sometimes. | ||
| Someone gave us $4.99 in pounds on Super Chat and they said, get Mr. Poole a drink on me. | ||
| Dude killed it on Rogan. | ||
| What do you drink? | ||
| Not alcohol. | ||
| You don't drink any alcohol? | ||
| Well, yesterday I had some beer after the Rogan thing, and I had deep fried Oreos with ice cream. | ||
| So that was like, that was fun! | ||
| I went out and I had a beer, and I didn't finish it. | ||
| I drank about half of it. | ||
| I used to drink too much when I was young. | ||
| I just can't drink anymore. | ||
| It just doesn't work for me. | ||
| Well, this is a paleo house. | ||
| There are no Oreos in here, but there is beer. | ||
| No beer. | ||
| You think about it. | ||
| Chicken. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Like satay peanut sauce or something. | |
| Tim, I don't agree with your politics, but I love how your discussion went on Joel Rogan's podcast. | ||
| Well done, sir. | ||
| They're just saying nice things. | ||
| Where are the people who hate me? | ||
| Let's see. | ||
| They're not going to give you money. | ||
| The word fascist, hence Nazi, is among the fighting words not protected. | ||
| Does this change either of your minds about these terms? | ||
| Chaplinsky vs. New Hampshire. | ||
| I mean, I don't believe in hate speech, period. | ||
| So I think with the exception of the very tiny limitations on speech, you can't yell fire in a crowded theater or call for direct violence. | ||
| You can do whatever you want. | ||
| So even though those guys were calling us a Nazi today, I'm not actually for them getting booted. | ||
| The only reason I was sharing it was to show the idiotic double standards, especially after the interview of yesterday. | ||
| If Twitter wants to claim they're trying to prevent us from leaving, the only reason I haven't left Twitter is because I'm an adult who understands that in the world, people say mean things. | ||
| But there are some people who are not emotionally mature enough, and I think there's a—so, according to the More in Common document by the Hidden Tribes group, using YouGov data, Progressives are like 8%. | ||
| They're overwhelmingly white. | ||
| They tend to make, they're more than twice as likely to make $100,000 per year. | ||
| What does that mean? | ||
| You've got a bunch of well-off, more likely to be well-off white people, who haven't been in the real world, who are, who have bulldozer parents, who have cleared every obstacle out from in front of them, and when they go in the real world, they meet someone who says, I just plain don't like you, and they go, It's a real offense to them, they've never experienced that before. | ||
| Yeah, I was homeless. | ||
| So I'll say this too, when it comes to, like, what if I got banned tomorrow? | ||
| When I was on Rogan and I said, the SPLC, hope not hate, Chase Bank is banning people, these organizations are doing it, and they could ban me too, I don't care. | ||
| You know what would happen if I got banned on every platform right now? | ||
| I'd go kick on the beach, have a coconut, and be like—and I would honestly be like, I'm glad it's finally over. | ||
| I can relax. | ||
| I am a hippie at heart, lefty libertarian, and I want to sit in the middle of nowhere under some trees with a coconut and some buddies and just, you know, making our own fire, finding our own food, and I just want to be left alone. | ||
| And I have an unfortunate something in my head where I'm passionate to fight for these values in our society. | ||
| I have told myself this since I was like 18. | ||
| The moment it becomes too difficult, I am gone. | ||
| And it's just been this ongoing passionate drive. | ||
| I've kept going, and it's kept working, and now for some reason I was just in front of Jack Dorsey, the CEO of Twitter. | ||
| Who the hell am I to sit in front of this multimillionaire, billionaire, whatever he's worth? | ||
| Well, you know who you are. | ||
| You're somebody doing what you're supposed to do. | ||
| I'm just a guy who talks about stuff. | ||
| But this is what you're supposed to be doing. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I guess. | |
| That's what the adventure of life is, right? | ||
| But, and I'll say it again, if they all said, you know what, Tim, we're gonna ban you outright, I'd be like, alright. | ||
| I'd get in my car and I would just, oh my god. | ||
| Let me tell you, it sounds so awesome that some days I'm like, man, I can't stop. | ||
| I have to work. | ||
| I haven't taken a day off in two years. | ||
| But sometimes I'm like, the only way I could stop is if they forced me to. | ||
| That'd be so great. | ||
| I'd go stay at the skate park for a week. | ||
| Just play some music with my acoustic guitar out under the stars. | ||
| You just gave me an excuse to put you out of your misery. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Not good, man. | |
| Not good. | ||
| Put me out of my misery. | ||
| Not good. | ||
| Hey Dave and Tim, love the work you guys do. | ||
| Tim, do you plan to report on the SNC-Lavalin scandal in Canada? | ||
| I actually don't know what that is. | ||
| I don't know about it, but that reminds me of something. | ||
| I'm sorry I can't answer that question, but I did want to point something out I forgot about earlier. | ||
| When it came to why you can't regulate tech companies into inventing things, Canada passed a bill that would require Google to create a registry of political ads. | ||
| So Google said, okay, and terminated all political ads. | ||
| You can't invent something. | ||
| So I apologize, I can't answer that. | ||
| Do you feel that the actors that you guys mentioned earlier actually hold those leftist opinions, or do you feel that they're forced to espouse those opinions by their publicist out of desire to look like the good guy? | ||
| You know, there's a piece of me that, when I saw the thing with Brie Larson at the awards thing... She believes it. | ||
| I actually sort of felt like she knows the movie's not gonna do well, so it's like, what do you do? | ||
| You get in front of it by making now a comment that's gonna- Claiming it's the trolls, or- Yep. | ||
| Yep. | ||
| So it's like, it wasn't that the movie wasn't good, it was that they destroyed me. | ||
| But she walked it back. | ||
| So I think the issue is, there's a YouTuber made a video- Well, the studio might have been pissed after. | ||
| Right, exactly. | ||
| A YouTuber made a video where Michael B. Jordan is on The View, and they're asking about Black Panther, and he says, you know, look, we're just here to celebrate who we are. | ||
| We're not trying to bring anybody down. | ||
| And he brings up how in South Korea, a bunch of other people from Indonesia showed up in traditional clothing, and it was really uplifting, and everyone was happy. | ||
| And this YouTuber was like, green checkmark. | ||
| Like, oh, that made me feel really good when Michael B. Jordan said that. | ||
| We're celebrating who we are with each other. | ||
| That's so awesome. | ||
| It's a small world after all, right? | ||
| It's Disney singing happy. | ||
| Brie Larson does the head bob. | ||
| This movie wasn't made for you! | ||
| And I'm like, oh, whoa, what are you doing? | ||
| Like, that's mean. | ||
| And then she also has a bunch of tweets where she's like, I simply looked at a TSA agent, he has my phone number, and I'm like, oh, come on, man. | ||
| Like, dude, I get it, but can you please be an adult? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Four liberals on Rogan debating whether Twitter is censoring conservatives, and no conservative invited to the discussion. | ||
| That's a really, really good point. | ||
| This is how censored we are. | ||
| Yep. | ||
| That's actually a really, really good point. | ||
| I have no response other than, yep. | ||
| I mean, but look, it was authoritarian left versus libertarian left talking about the banning of libertarians. | ||
| And I don't mean big on libertarian. | ||
| So I think one of the things we should clarify, too, is the debate isn't about—conservatives are mostly getting the brunt of this. | ||
| But there are libertarian left—it's really about the authoritarian left. | ||
| There's no real authoritarian right other than like—well, I don't want to name any of the mainstream politicians who fall into that category. | ||
| It's Democrats, too. | ||
| I'm not pointing to Republicans. | ||
| Yeah, I don't even know who that would be, really. | ||
| I'm not going to say it, but it should be fairly obvious. | ||
| The mainstream corporatist Democrats, they're authoritarian right as far as I'm concerned. | ||
| They've always been. | ||
| They are not in line with Bernie Sanders. | ||
| They hate Bernie Sanders. | ||
| They hate Tulsi Gabbard. | ||
| They hate the left libertarian people who want to end the foreign wars. | ||
| So, you know, anybody who's in favor of taking corporate money, taking $300,000 from Goldman Sachs, Fair enough. | ||
| What is worse, someone like Alex Jones, who you know is exaggerating on things, or Buzzfeed, who lie but pretend to be honest and the good guys? | ||
| Feel free to come back to Australia any time. | ||
| I gladly will. | ||
| That includes Democrats and Republicans. | ||
| Fair enough. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| What is worse, someone like Alex Jones, who you know is exaggerating on things, | ||
| or Buzzfeed, who lie but pretend to be honest and the good guys, feel free to come back | ||
| to Australia anytime. | ||
| I gladly will, I think we're gonna do it next year. | ||
| Alex Jones made a statement that was read out by Vajaya that I believe was indefensible. | ||
| He said he was encouraged to be able to do things politically and even criminally and get your battle rifles ready. | ||
| And I understand, you know, if it's supposed to be a joke or metaphorical or whatever, but he did say it. | ||
| And you have to recognize he's got a huge audience. | ||
| People will take that literally and he can't do that. | ||
| However, that was a one-stream action. | ||
| BuzzFeed is doing haymakers. | ||
| I did a video on my YouTube channel where I explained what you've got an uppercut, a powerful boom to the face, and then BuzzFeed doing small jabs over and over again. | ||
| BuzzFeed was on the Covington BS. | ||
| BuzzFeed, even after it was proven their story about Michael Cohen and Trump was wrong. | ||
| Man, that went away quick, didn't it? | ||
| No, no, they keep defending it. | ||
| Mueller came out and said, this story's fake. | ||
| What does Busbee do? | ||
| Nope, we stand by our sources. | ||
| Cohen testifies, Trump never directly told me to lie, it doesn't work that way. | ||
| Nope, we were right. | ||
| No, I mean it went away, not that the story went away, I mean that nobody really called him out on it. | ||
| Oh, the left was like, shut up, shut up, shut up. | ||
| Yeah, because it happened on a Friday, and by Monday it was basically over. | ||
| And so, you know, I'm curious, I mentioned this to, it's one of the problems with bias, right? | ||
| I think Jack's a good guy. | ||
| I think he's trying. | ||
| They didn't know who Jonathan Morgan was, they knew who Jacob Wall was. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Why? | |
| Right, that was a good point. | ||
| Because the journalists are like, it's something like 72% of journalism jobs are in blue districts, so they're like, ooh, Jacob Wall, Jacob Wall. | ||
| Jonathan Morgan, a Democrat, they go, well, you know. | ||
| Even though he duped them, even though this guy, it's reported by the New York Times that he was engaging in this operation, Facebook banned him for it, I think it's fair to say this happened. | ||
| Was manipulating national reporters into smearing a Republican, they still just kind of like, they report on it, that's fair, but where was the outrage from the whole Twitterati, all the digital media saying, the Democrats are meddling in our election, oh my God, nah, nothing. | ||
| Did any of the verified journalists or politicians or whatever who were calling for violence or punch those kids in the face or any of those people, did any of them get banned or suspended? | ||
| So the only thing I can comment on is the one guy I referenced over and over again, who said, lock them in a school, burn it down, fire them when you see them. | ||
| He did get a suspension and was forced to delete those tweets. | ||
| But I think it's absolutely hilarious that you can have someone like Chuck Johnson, where he said he was raising money to take out DeRay, and they're like, oh, better ban him. | ||
| Permaban, no warning, just done. | ||
| And there was, I could be wrong, but I believe there was a story about email leaks where some high up individual was like, just get rid of him. | ||
| Then you have this other guy who's like, lock him in school, burn it down. | ||
| And I'm like, well, please don't do this again, please. | ||
| Calling for the death of kids versus insinuating you want to raise money to do a hit piece on an individual that was, could be construed in a certain way, I get it. | ||
| I would have had no problem if they said, listen, do you understand why people might think you're talking about killing somebody? | ||
| Can you take this down and, oh, okay, sorry about that. | ||
| No, they were like, whack. | ||
|
unidentified
|
This other guy, just please, just. | |
| Oh lordy, lordy. | ||
| Alright guys, we're gonna get to as many as possible. | ||
| Just a reminder, I am at the Ice House in Pasadena, right here in L.A., March 8th. | ||
| It's this Friday. | ||
| Maybe Tim will be there. | ||
| Maybe an IDW. | ||
| No, I promise you an IDW guy will be there. | ||
| Maybe Tim will be there. | ||
| I assume the link is right down below, so check that out, or it's daverubin.com slash events. | ||
| Okay, here we go. | ||
| My birthday is the following day, too, so it's, yeah. | ||
| Well, this changes everything. | ||
| That's why I'm staying in L.A. | ||
| for the week. | ||
| I'm gonna, you know, I don't know. | ||
| How old are you gonna be? | ||
|
unidentified
|
33. | |
| 33rd birthday in L.A. | ||
| Yeah, 33. | ||
| You could end up with a coconut and just going off the grid. | ||
| That's how it all ends. | ||
| Alright, here we go. | ||
| Although Vajaya was forthcoming, did you detect any tactical dishonesty in how she spoke, buzzwords, damage control, especially in comparison to Jax? | ||
| Absolutely. | ||
| Like when I brought up Learn to Code, they prepared for it, and she said it was connected to harassment campaigns, and there was only a couple times I actually stopped her in anger. | ||
| I apologized for it, but I'm like, I have to. | ||
| You know, I want to give them time to answer because I didn't want to just start leveling all these things and throwing them. | ||
| I wanted the people to explain themselves, be fair. | ||
| But when she went back on, well, it was a harassment. | ||
| No, no, no, no, no, no, no. | ||
| The editor-in-chief of the Daily Caller was not harassing anybody. | ||
| He was tweeting a joke. | ||
| And you locked him out of his account. | ||
| There's no explanation for that. | ||
| And following the episode with Joe, I got inundated with emails of people showing me | ||
| that even when they were tweeting to their friends, someone responded to a conservative | ||
| personality. | ||
| They said, LOI, this is a really great thing. | ||
| Maybe this could help someone learn to code. | ||
| Just joking at each other, basically. | ||
| Because basically, I think what Twitter did was they were lobbied by activists, activists | ||
| who work for news organizations. | ||
| They say it's not true, but journalists were targeted in the first place by people saying, learn to code. | ||
| I can't imagine that wasn't the case. | ||
| And they said, just ban everybody who just algorithm it, you know, just. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| All right. | ||
| I'm calling an audible for a second because, so we talked about the, just sort of the business model of the media companies and why they're crumbling, but what do you make of just the general state of journalists? | ||
| In general. | ||
| Like, I mentioned some of the journalists I like, but there are so many, these people that work at these companies, that they could never have another job. | ||
| They don't have a job in the first place. | ||
| You know, I used to work for American Airlines Regional, it's called American Eagle, lifting, I believe, around something like 50,000 pounds per day. | ||
| I hurt my hand at one point doing this labor. | ||
| I was making 10 bucks an hour. | ||
| And then when I, for the first time, walked into a newsroom, I went, how much are they getting paid per year? | ||
| You're getting more than double what I got to write about Brad Pitt's junk? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| What is—and then they're saying they're not getting paid enough, and I'm like, wow. | ||
| You know, Vice notoriously underpaid people, but I never really thought of it much because I was like, you're upset that you're getting 30 grand a year? | ||
| Like, I was getting 13 to lift bags and be insulted and do backbreaking labor covered in sweat all day. | ||
| This is paradise. | ||
| And that's another reason why I'm like, you really have no leverage over me. | ||
| These people, if they're threatening me with banning, I really don't care. | ||
| You could take away my shoes, my pants, and I have seen the worst of the worst. | ||
| I have been to the favelas of Brazil. | ||
| I have been to the old communist block housing in Ukraine. | ||
| I have seen how bad things can really be. | ||
| And all I look at when I see the beauty and comfort of America is spoiled brats who are complaining about how bad they have it when they have it better than 99% of the world. | ||
| It's mind-blowing to me. | ||
| Free as country in the history of the world. | ||
| It ain't that bad. | ||
| Tim, I'm so proud of you. | ||
| You stood your ground and held their feet to the fire. | ||
| Dave, love you too. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Fight on. | |
| All right, that's okay. | ||
| Another one, I love you. | ||
| We got three I love you's in a row. | ||
| That was just I love you. | ||
| Love you, Tim. | ||
| Been amazing to see your rise. | ||
| Please, both of you, keep defending free speech and expression, okay? | ||
| Thanks for doing this important job. | ||
| This is an interesting one for you. | ||
| Who would win in a tag team wrestling match? | ||
| Ben Shapiro and Jordan Peterson versus Dave Rubin and Eric Weinstein. | ||
| You and Eric. | ||
| I'm not trying to be a dick, but Ben Shapiro is on the smaller... Yeah, but no, it's true. | ||
| I mean... But Jordan's got long reach. | ||
| He's got long reach, but then you're a little taller than average, so you could probably easily counter against Jordan if you put some, you know... But Eric, he's got the curb weight. | ||
| He could easily... He'd crush Ben. | ||
| Yeah, he's got the outclasses, you know, both. | ||
| So I think you guys together, it's an unfair, you know. | ||
| The memes are already coming out. | ||
| This is a good one. | ||
| And I actually, I was going to ask you this, but I only saw about 80% of the whole thing yesterday because I didn't realize it was on until I was at the freaking pet store. | ||
| Why didn't you ask about why Louis Farrakhan's account is allowed? | ||
| Man, I'll be honest, there was a bunch of stuff that just I didn't get to. | ||
| I had notes, and I was checking them too, and there was just... I felt like there was so much, and at a certain point too, they've addressed it. | ||
| And I don't know. | ||
| There were a couple people that afterwards I was like, God, that's a really good point. | ||
| You know, I just, I'm not perfect. | ||
| A lot of people thought that I wasn't the right person for the job. | ||
| Look, I see a lot of people praising me. | ||
| You're like, wow, Tim was perfect for this. | ||
| Some people are straight up saying Ben Shapiro should have been the right person. | ||
| And I'm like, Yeah, maybe, I don't know. | ||
| You mean people from the conservative side saying you weren't being hard enough? | ||
| I actually didn't see any of that. | ||
| There were comments from people, and even like, I'll say this too, it seems like Sam Harris' fans absolutely detest me. | ||
| Whatever. | ||
| But there are conservative people who thought it would have been better if Ben Shapiro was there instead. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| I think Ben Shapiro is really good at what he does, and it's a good point that he's a conservative and I'm not. | ||
| While I certainly have tracked a lot of this news, maybe that would have made more sense. | ||
| All I can say is I got asked to do it, and my response to Joe was, Joe, I'm a little bird up in a tree that just got his down feathers, and you're kicking me out of the nest right now by asking me to do this. | ||
| I'll do it. | ||
| And he was like, yeah, yeah, come on, man. | ||
| He's like, you're a smart guy. | ||
| And I'm like, let's go. | ||
| It's a beautiful thing, just doing what you're supposed to be doing. | ||
| I guess, yeah. | ||
| Love both y'all. | ||
| I'm a conservative and I have many strong political differences with you guys, but I appreciate both of you for your dedication in seeking the truth rather than promoting politically convenient narratives. | ||
| Right on, thank you. | ||
| Maybe the conspiracy is some organization created the regressive left to unify like your moderate liberal and conservatives into allying. | ||
| Dude, why do I keep getting invited to conservative things where I go up there, I tell them all these things that I disagree with them, and they keep inviting me back. | ||
| It's very bizarre. | ||
| Yeah, I know. | ||
| I mean, really, if me and you said, well, let's try it right now. | ||
| If a progressive organization, not to mock us or whatever, would invite us to a university or something, would you do it? | ||
| Absolutely, of course. | ||
| All right, so let's see. | ||
| Maybe somebody will invite us, but probably not. | ||
| Has anyone looked into the contractors Twitter uses to moderate tweets Jack mentioned? | ||
| Also, do other social media companies use the same ones? | ||
| Could that be part of the bias? | ||
| You know, there was an interesting moment where he said the thing about they're looking into allowing the user to have control of whether the responses could be seen. | ||
| And I thought that was interesting because what I notice is, now that I'm high profile, every time I tweet, I could tweet a picture of my dog and I get a million people in there telling me I'm a Nazi and the rest of it. | ||
| And they know that the worse that they are to me, the more likes it gets. | ||
| So the idea of shutting down replies, I think, is interesting. | ||
| But then he sort of walked it back because then he said, no, we would let the users have to click an extra click, right? | ||
| So basically, they're trialing a system where when you tweet and someone responds, you can mute them. | ||
| So no one can see it, unless you go to the bottom and open up the muted post or whatever. | ||
| Right. | ||
| I guess there's something valuable there. | ||
| You can sort of push it down, I guess. | ||
| The problem with Twitter is how do you get rewarded on Twitter? | ||
| anger, insults. | ||
| So I know some people who are, they used to be regular journalists. | ||
| There's a guy I used to work with when I would do some guest hosting for a certain network, | ||
| and he was a normal dude. | ||
| We got along, we have basically the same politics. | ||
| And then he realized he could gain followers by replying to Donald Trump. | ||
| And what did he do? | ||
| Now it's like I look at his Twitter and I'm like, what the hell is wrong with you? | ||
| I mean, for sure they said the same thing to me, but admittedly, I think it's funny when they, to move on to another point, when they're like, Tim, you changed, they claim I'm being red-pilled, and then I made a video where I was like, here's an article from 2012, Where I was calling out black bloc anarchists for getting violent and they physically attacked me. | ||
| You want to tell me my opinions have changed? | ||
| I'm sure many of them have. | ||
| Absolutely. | ||
| You can look at my videos. | ||
| But you can also go to 2012 and see I have always been at odds with these people. | ||
| They hate my guts. | ||
| They physically attacked me numerous times during Occupy because I believe in being... I'll tell you exactly what happened. | ||
| I filmed some people draining the air out of a tire. | ||
| Wasn't intentional. | ||
| I didn't seek them out. | ||
| I just saw them and I filmed it. | ||
| They came to me later. | ||
| And said, if you don't produce propaganda for us, we will stop you. | ||
| They wanted me specifically to film the things they would point to. | ||
| Like, only film the police, don't film us, let us do our thing. | ||
| And I said, no, I'm going to let people know exactly what's happening. | ||
| So they did. | ||
| I was attacked several times. | ||
| And it's like, to think that there are people who are like, I don't understand why Tim is calling out Antifa. | ||
| Oh no. | ||
| It's like, have you ever watched anything I've ever done? | ||
| Like, there's an article about me in some magazine with a picture of me being held back by cops while I was fighting a guy in Black Block in 2011. | ||
| Like, come on, man. | ||
| Well, also the idea that, even putting all of that aside, the idea that you're not allowed to evolve or change your opinions. | ||
| Oh, exactly. | ||
| It's so sad and pathetic. | ||
| And there was recently a video where it was like, Dave Rubin's opinion changing over time, and people are gasping, and I'm like... | ||
| So you took old videos of Rubin and then you realized that as he got older, he read things and changed his opinion? | ||
| That doesn't... How is that relevant? | ||
| And literally every week for the last five years, as I've changed on things, I've talked about it openly, like... But you know what really bothers me about... I think, look, I'll be honest, I think there's absolute criticism that you can be criticized for. | ||
| I think you're... | ||
| I'm not Jesus. | ||
| Right, exactly. | ||
| Criticize the hell out of me. | ||
| I remember watching one of your videos. | ||
| You had someone who was very much on the left and social justice, and I was watching it. | ||
| And then shortly after, I saw someone say that they posted a link to an older interview you did with Jordan Peterson. | ||
| They said, all Rubin ever does is talk to conservatives. | ||
| And I was like, you know what unit it is? | ||
| They do the same thing to me. | ||
| They only share these videos, and they assume you're not talking to people And I'm like, go to his channel, just click videos. | ||
| I went there, I'm like, who's this? | ||
| I'm like, oh, that person's like kind of on the left. | ||
| Someone broke it down once on Facebook. | ||
| They took literally every interview I've ever done, and it actually leaned mostly left. | ||
| It's like a split between like slightly left and a little bit libertarian. | ||
| They do the same thing to me where they'll take select videos and then be like, look at this video Tim did. | ||
| And I'm like, did you watch it? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| You know, so actually a really good example is back when Komi was- Well, they would watch it. | ||
| You don't want them to watch it. | ||
| That's a really good point. | ||
| When Comey was testifying a couple years ago, I made the video titled, Did James Comey Lie Under Oath? | ||
| Because conservatives were saying he did, liberals were saying of course not, and my liberal friends were outraged that I would dare make a video accusing him of lying. | ||
| I didn't. | ||
| In fact, the video concludes he likely didn't, and here's why. | ||
| The reason I posed it as a question was so that I was neutral to both factions. | ||
| I'm not going to tell you what he did or didn't do. | ||
| I'm going to ask the question. | ||
| If you're interested, I can then walk you to why I believe a certain thing. | ||
| They were upset that I didn't make a video outright defending them. | ||
| Even though I did. | ||
| They wanted the title to definitively say, Conservatives are stupid, James Comey is not a liar, and I'm like, it was a really neutral title. | ||
| But they got angry about it. | ||
| Bow forever, man, or they're not gonna stay with ya. | ||
| As a fellow Southsider, I watch your shows because it reminds me of hanging out with my buddies at the park. | ||
| What parks did you hang out at? | ||
| Keep up the great work, both of you. | ||
| Vidim. | ||
| Vidim? | ||
| Vidim Park, southwest side of Chicago, and West Lawn. | ||
| Tim, I'm so proud of you. | ||
| You stood your ground and held their feet to the fire. | ||
| Dave, love you too. | ||
| Fight on, okay? | ||
| We've got another just generic I love you. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| Dave, thanks for doing this important job. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| We already did the wrestling one. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| Let me scroll the other way. | ||
| Kudos for yesterday's podcast. | ||
| Question, is there any politician openly discussing anti-monopoly laws in the digital space? | ||
| I'm looking at Twitter, Facebook, Google, Amazon and their kin, de facto monopolies. | ||
| Well, I guess, I mean... I'm not sure. | ||
| I think, I think, you know, when, when, when... Well, Trump is kind of talking about it, right? | ||
| But I feel like Trump gets his opinions from Fox News. | ||
| Like he literally will tag Tucker Carlson and Hannity after he hears them. | ||
| And look, I gotta be honest, I don't blame him. | ||
| I don't expect him. | ||
| He's a president. | ||
| He's doing work. | ||
| The left just wants to apply he's not doing work. | ||
| But I'm sure at the end of the day he turns on the news and that's what he hears and then he tweets about it. | ||
| So he's a few steps behind the rest of us. | ||
| So I think he is concerned. | ||
| He mentioned the executive order on free speech on campuses. | ||
| I've seen, uh, I think, um, um, Jonathan Haidt was critical of it, but Brett Weinstein was positive. | ||
| So there's some debate here. | ||
| But when I saw Jack Dorsey testifying before Congress, they had no idea what the hell they're talking about. | ||
| There was like one good interview where the guy said, why is Twitter defaulting only democratic politicians when you sign up in DC? | ||
| And Jack was like, uh, I don't know. | ||
| Well, that's also, But that's also why, to me, regulation, we don't have to get that far back into it, but it's like, that's why that makes no sense. | ||
| The idea that the government could understand what a tech company would have to do. | ||
| Like, I pay my property taxes on a California state website. | ||
| It looks like Prodigy in 1996. | ||
| You know what I mean? | ||
| Like, that they'd come in and be like, we know the tech. | ||
| Twitter is much easier to regulate because in terms of when you first sign up, you get recommended Democrats. | ||
| They could say, okay, get rid of that because that's favoring one side. | ||
| If you can't solve the solution, get rid of it. | ||
| When it comes to actual content on Twitter, it's a reverse chronological feed. | ||
| You can still follow whoever you want. | ||
| You'll see what they post when they post it. | ||
| Well, that's assuming they're not shadow banning and doing a bunch of other stuff that we have reason to believe. | ||
| Well, that's what I mean. | ||
| So if that's the, if the regulation is, Twitter, you must abide by free speech as set forth by, as precedent set forth by the Supreme Court, therefore, you know, if something is illegal, Law enforcement will take care of it. | ||
| It'll be taken down with a lawful order or whatever. | ||
| That could work, because Twitter doesn't have any more, that's not super complicated. | ||
| They are trying to do algorithmic feeds, which I think is a bad idea, but. | ||
| Terrible idea? | ||
| Yeah, no. | ||
| Yeah, geez, all right. | ||
| Do either of you agree with radios banning Michael Jackson now in the wake of Leaving Neverland? | ||
|
unidentified
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That's insane. | |
| Neverland, I haven't seen it yet. | ||
| Yeah, I haven't seen it. | ||
| But I mean, I've heard. | ||
| But we knew! | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I mean, South Park, how many episodes where Michael Jackson was like, Yeah. | ||
| Are you telling me he could possibly be worse than Ruffalo? | ||
| of the kids, like, you know, separate the FME artist. | ||
| Do I think Brie Larson is snooty? | ||
| I do. | ||
| Is that the reason why I chose to skip Captain Marvel this weekend? | ||
| It's not, it's because you combine that with the marketing of the film, and I was worried | ||
| I'd sit through another Last Jedi. | ||
| So, you know, with Chris Evans, I really don't like the things he posts. | ||
| He comes off as someone who thinks he's smart, and he's not. | ||
| Like, he uses obscure small words to make it seem like he's got a big vocabulary. | ||
| Are you telling me he could possibly be worse than Ruffalo? | ||
| Because Ruffalo is unbearable. | ||
| Every time I see the Hulk now, I'm like, ugh. | ||
| But you know, I separate the art from the artist. | ||
| So Michael Jackson was terrible. | ||
| And look, you know, when you go back in time and start raising your arms and wiggling in | ||
| the air because maybe it's cold outside is offensive today, you know what I think it | ||
| is honestly? | ||
| It's because left and right mean different things depending on whether you're talking | ||
| about economics or culture. | ||
| Far left and far right often are used to refer, in most instances I believe, traditional versus progressive. | ||
| So the far left, the extremists in progressive culture, want to purge history. | ||
| It's what, I believe it is in China. | ||
| I don't remember what it was. | ||
| The Culture Revolution, I think, where they're like, let's get rid of the old and build the new. | ||
| So they want to purge. | ||
| Maybe it's cold outside. | ||
| They want to get rid of old songs because they were offensive, even though we understand the era and we've gotten rid of these things. | ||
| It's also the height of pomposity to think that all, I mean, you said this earlier, basically, but to think that the thousands of years of human history, that it was all so wrong, but you You have somehow gained the insight that all those morons before you couldn't figure out. | ||
| And if only you had the power over other people. | ||
| This is one of my favorite points to make in this conversation. | ||
| So, in English common law, we have the presumption of innocence, and that's actually in the Bible. | ||
| So, when you look at where our society is today, one of the most important tenets of a free society, liberal democracy in our English common law, the idea that we would say it is better that ten guilty persons escape than one innocent suffer, is not an original idea from Blackstone. | ||
| It's Blackstone's formulation. | ||
| It's actually biblical in the story of Sodom and Gomorrah, and I believe his name was Lot. | ||
| So there's a lot of people I know on the left who are like, the Bible is hokey BS. | ||
| It's like, I agree a lot of it is. | ||
| But also don't forget, a lot of our institutions today started there and brought us to a certain point. | ||
| The story was simple. | ||
| God was going to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah, and he said, for the sake of 50 righteous people, I will not destroy it. | ||
| And then he asked, what about 30? | ||
| What about 20? | ||
| And God said, even for one righteous person, I will not destroy the city. | ||
| And that taught us a long time ago that Bible, the Old Testament is full of crazy things we do not want to employ today, and modern religions don't, like modern Judaism and Christianity, do not adhere to stoning people. | ||
| But we do still maintain the presumption of innocence and protecting the righteous even if it means all the bad people get to go free. | ||
| We built our society. | ||
| We haven't just destroyed everything in our wake. | ||
| We're not burning the bridge behind us. | ||
| We're getting rid of the bad things and keeping the good things. | ||
| And there are people that are so extreme to the left, they want to destroy everything. | ||
| Baby It's Cold Outside is a classic song. | ||
| We understand why it can make some people angry, but for the most part, it really doesn't. | ||
| It's fake outrage. | ||
| And they want to get rid of it. | ||
| We can keep these things. | ||
| And the other important issue is, too, when it comes to the statue debate of Confederate statues, I should take a rather centrist approach. | ||
| Why don't we put it in a museum and then put a placard there explaining what history was and why we changed it? | ||
| Because then you maintain your history. | ||
| The statue is in a museum where people can still learn about their history. | ||
| And then people can say, we've changed as a society, but we always need to remember our past. | ||
| I think that's a very fair position. | ||
| I would be for, you could just put, you could even leave them there in some cases and still put the statue, but at least, or you know, put up the- Put up a plaque explaining. | ||
| Yeah, something like that. | ||
| There's a, Looney Tunes I think it was, maybe it was Disney, a cartoon was up on YouTube of historical cartoons that were like blackface and really offensive. | ||
| Oh yeah. | ||
| And there's a disclaimer saying, please remember this was from a different time and we understand why these things are offensive and wrong and to pretend like this didn't exist, which would be to pretend our racist history also didn't exist and we don't want to do that. | ||
| I agree. | ||
| I absolutely agree. | ||
| Well, also, it's that they'll come for everything. | ||
| You know, the creators of Family Guy now are saying they're not going to make gay jokes anymore. | ||
| So what do you say? | ||
| Well, you're not going to make gay jokes? | ||
| Well, you're still going to make black jokes? | ||
| Or you're still going to make Jew jokes? | ||
| And what can we do? | ||
| You know, they're not doing opera anymore, right? | ||
| And who decided that? | ||
| Well, none of them are. | ||
| Did they flip on that? | ||
| Well, I think it was fake news, actually. | ||
| It was fake news that they were getting rid of Apu, and the producers were like, no, no, no, we're not. | ||
| What are you talking about? | ||
| Dear God, I hope you're right. | ||
| But here's the thing. | ||
| When the story broke that they were going to get rid of Apu, there was actually a backlash among the regressive left. | ||
| I don't want to say the regressive left, but social justice activists saying, you're getting rid of a strong migrant business owner. | ||
| Like, Apu wasn't a negative stereotype. | ||
| He was a successful business owner. | ||
| He taught them about immigration. | ||
| He was Homer's friend. | ||
| He's actually the hardest worker guy in the whole freaking town. | ||
| There's an episode about a proposition to send him home. | ||
| He became a citizen. | ||
| Who needs the Kwik-E-Mart? | ||
| It's one of the best episodes. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| A lot of people were like, here you have one of the most positive depictions of an Indian-American migrant who successfully runs a business, and because some people are upset by it, they're going to get rid of it when some people actually appreciate it. | ||
| Yeah, I'm curious though, I will have to just Google this after, but I think they said it was real because then Hank Azaria said he won't do The Voice anymore because they got to him and he's a white guy even though he's the greatest voiceover actor of a generation and he said I shouldn't have done it or I won't do it. | ||
| They never return the money, right? | ||
| Seth MacFarlane's not returning all the Gatsby joke money. | ||
| I'll do one more on that issue. | ||
| You know why fake news will never stop? | ||
| You publish a fake news story, you make all the money, you issue a traction two days later, you keep all the money. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Okay, we'll do two more. | ||
| Tim made a point about how people are scared about appearing racist and jumping ship to other platforms. | ||
| This may be a double-edged sword that breeds SJW thinking for the people who stay on Twitter, overcompensating for their anti-racism, resulting in shoe color equals racist. | ||
| That's actually pretty interesting. | ||
| So the idea is that you don't want to leave to go to, say, Gab or something like that, because then people will say you're racist, Yeah. | ||
| So then you stay on Twitter, and then over time, I suppose, you sort of get dumbed down into just, now you still want clicks, so then you just do what you gotta do to get clicks. | ||
|
unidentified
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I don't know. | |
| Something like that. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| What I do know- Even if I'm understanding the question properly. | ||
| What I do know is that Gab is growing. | ||
| Dissenter is, I gotta say, you know, Dissenter is brilliant. | ||
| You know what Dissenter is? | ||
| Well, I know it just came out through the Gab people. | ||
| It's a browser extension that creates a comment section for any website, and when I heard they were doing that, I went, whoa, that was really, really smart. | ||
| It's so simple. | ||
| Now, there is an issue in that the value of Twitter, for me, is the news feed. | ||
| I don't care about the stupid opinions of the crazy people, but seeing the breaking news is really important for me. | ||
| It's one of my sources, so Gab doesn't work for that. | ||
| Gab is good for the people who use Gab, and I also want to stress, too, I don't care for the fake news. | ||
| The best I could understand is that when I did my research, a study was done, found Gab's hate speech is about 5% of all posts. | ||
| Twitter's is 2.4, somewhere in those numbers. | ||
| Gab is not that much worse. | ||
| And my understanding is it's predominantly like Trump supporters. | ||
| They got bad actors, for sure. | ||
|
unidentified
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Yeah. | |
| Twitter has substantially more bad actors. | ||
| Well, wasn't there that weird thing when the guy shot up the temple in, was that not Philadelphia? | ||
| Oh, the Twitter user. | ||
| See, I'm blanking. | ||
| The Twitter user who did it. | ||
| Right, he was a Twitter user, but all stories were about his gab account. | ||
| Because he was also a gab user. | ||
| That was the point I was trying to make. | ||
| He was on Twitter, he was on Facebook, you know. | ||
| All right, I'm gonna ask a deep, dark one right now to end this thing, but then we'll try to end it in a little more positive. | ||
| No, but I do get this question often at Publica Things, too. | ||
| Tim, do you think we could be looking at a potential civil war? | ||
| Or information war? | ||
| I mean, I guess we're in it. | ||
| Well, the information war is happening. | ||
| That's why Data & Society is lying about us. | ||
| But I think it's really funny when I mentioned, you know, I'll absolutely say yes, there's gonna be some kind of civil war. | ||
| We may be in it. | ||
| And it's funny, most people don't freak out because they understand I'm not like a prepper. | ||
| I'm not saying that we're going to be, you know, all the buildings will be destroyed and it'll be like Syria. | ||
| I'm saying there's going to be some kind of insurgency. | ||
| You know, we had the guys show up at the school in Eugene, Oregon, smashed the Patriarchy and Chill, pulled out a concealed gunfire, two rounds at a cop. | ||
| A week later, protesters of the far left came and said, you killed our comrade. | ||
| A week later, someone planted a bomb at a police station. | ||
| You made a good point, by the way, that these things were extremely underreported because there's a theme there. | ||
| They were all coming from the left. | ||
| And then when the guy planted the bomb in Houston on a statue and then tried to act like it wasn't by drinking the liquid that he was using for it. | ||
| So, we had the escalation of violence. | ||
| We have people marching through the streets with guns. | ||
| We now have far-left and, yes, to an extent, far-right groups that—actually, I'll say this. | ||
| I'm not super familiar with the far-right groups that are prominent in marching. | ||
| There are right-wing groups that are marching around and libertarian groups, but you do have far-left communist factions that are armed and marching around. | ||
| One important point, though, is that I have seen people associated with the left and the right who have guns at events, and they have more respect for each other than anyone else. | ||
| So it was an interesting thing I saw. | ||
| It was at a rally in Texas. | ||
| There was a left-wing protester and a right-wing protester, both armed, and they were laughing and smiling at each other, asking about, you know—because I think the gun gave them a common connection. | ||
| They understood the importance, the training, the discipline. | ||
| But the point I want to make is, I think we're going to see some kind of insurgency. | ||
| People point to the weather underground and say, we had this before. | ||
| My understanding of the weather underground, it was shock and awe. | ||
| It was late night. | ||
| No people were around. | ||
| Well, someone planted a bomb at a police station in Eugene, Oregon, and it was real. | ||
| And it was during the day when people were there. | ||
| And the guy mowing the lawn saw it. | ||
| They had to come in and deal with it. | ||
| So I think The nightmare scenario for me is, for one, what are we seeing right now? | ||
| Chase Bank shutting people down. | ||
| Only a couple accounts so far. | ||
| MasterCard has shut, I believe, at least one person, maybe more, I could be wrong. | ||
| Patreon, Twitter banning. | ||
| People are moving to Gab. | ||
| People are moving to Mines. | ||
| People are moving to other platforms. | ||
| BitChute. | ||
| So, I've talked about the emergence of a parallel society. | ||
| On Twitter, at least right now, like Jack Dorsey mentioned, Megan Phelps, the Westboro Baptist Church, got to interact with people and it pulled her out of the church. | ||
| They're doing away with that. | ||
| They are guaranteeing that, uh, the way it was, it was actually explained this, so I mentioned this, but it was Joey Salads, the YouTuber who went through that whole redemption process. | ||
| He said, when you ban people, you're taking like some dude who just smokes pot and putting them in prison with some murderers. | ||
| Like, what do you think it's going to do to those people? | ||
| So you've got someone on Twitter who was banned for saying men aren't women. | ||
| And then they're like, you're banned. | ||
| The only place they can go is where there's actual white supremacists and Nazis. | ||
| What do you think is going to happen to those people when they're surrounded by this, and it's the only community that engages with them? | ||
| And that's why I like telling the story of Joey. | ||
| I did an interview with him recently. | ||
| You know who Joey Sales is? | ||
| He did that video where he hired black people to smash a Trump car. | ||
| Horrible, horrible, terrible, terrible thing to do. | ||
| And when he tweeted at me the first time, I got so angry this fake news guy because he represented the fake news people I hated so much doing the same thing and then I realized this guy's trying not to be that guy anymore if I don't let him he's gonna go back to being the bad guy if you don't give him a chance and he got a chance and the important thing here is | ||
| He went from making these extremist, ragebait, fake news, racist videos to like one of his latest videos was him wearing a wig and using a bait purse that sprayed someone with milk. | ||
| Like the most hokey PC-13 silly prank. | ||
| And I'm like, there you go. | ||
| The videos he's making now are so mainstream and normal and hokey, he realized what he was doing was wrong. | ||
| What he said to me was he didn't realize how far he had gone. | ||
| He kept doing it and doing it and doing it. | ||
| It was getting worse, and he didn't realize how bad it was getting. | ||
| And then, you know, it's only because he was able to come clean and people let him—he didn't get banned from YouTube that now he's just like probably a normal conservative. | ||
| He makes silly videos. | ||
| Where would he be if he was banned? | ||
| He'd be hanging out in the dark corners of the web with the people who liked him, being fed constant negative and racist opinions, and you are the summation of the people who surround you. | ||
| So that terrifies me. | ||
| And what's even worse is Jack said, I fear the darkness and I know it's happening. | ||
| And that's when I said the snowflake doesn't blame itself. | ||
| All of these companies are doing it. | ||
| They are creating. | ||
| So the reason I bring this up right now is it may be early, it may never happen, but we are looking at the beginning. | ||
| with banks banning people, with Patreon, with social networks, parallel networks emerging. | ||
| SubscribeStar is a really good example. | ||
| This is the formation of a parallel economy where people are using foreign credit card processors now | ||
| because the American ones won't do it. | ||
| Now you've got people who are completely on a separate economic system | ||
| and they can still interact for the time being. | ||
| But what happens when your credit card doesn't work anymore and you can't go to any regular store? | ||
| So now you can only go to certain stores and these people aren't going to just die. | ||
| They're not going to give up on life. | ||
| They're going to say, you people have kicked me out. | ||
| I don't like you, you're my enemy. | ||
| You're gonna, so, so. | ||
| It- it- It looks like the pattern is obvious, in my opinion. | ||
| If they don't stop, you will at least end up with hundreds of thousands of people excised from society if we're not already there. | ||
| And what happens when they say, I want to have a rally? | ||
| They say, oh, these people are coming from Gab? | ||
| They must be neo-Nazis, so they show up with clubs and bats. | ||
| And what are you allowed to do with Nazis? | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| And then these people come back and say we better bring guns to protect ourselves. | ||
| There was already a guy, I think it was in Portland, who, when a bunch of protesters were marching towards him with his hands up, drew his weapon on him. | ||
| He got charged, he got in trouble, but here's the important takeaway on whether or not a civil war will happen. | ||
| When we read history, it's condensed. | ||
| We read, in 1938 this happened, in 1939 this happened. | ||
| But for the people who lived it, nothing happened. | ||
| Six months later, it was a slow, gradual increase. | ||
| It may be in a hundred years that they say, wow, the Second Civil War started, you know, 2016 after Trump got elected and the protesters showed up at his inauguration. | ||
| That was when it all started. | ||
| We're in it. | ||
| We can't see it. | ||
| We're in the forest, you know? | ||
| We don't realize So, look... You gave me negative, positive, negative, positive there. | ||
| No, it's all negative. | ||
| What I mean to say is... Well, some of the positive was that when you saw a guy like Joey Salads, you were willing to... that there are good people out there willing to open up themselves. | ||
| The positive when it comes to Joey is that he wasn't banned. | ||
| And so because he wasn't, he said, I'm gonna do better And he did. | ||
| And now he's making these silly... He makes some PG-13 videos where it's like, you know, pranks on my girlfriend and stuff. | ||
| But it's like, so dramatically different from where he was, getting out of control. | ||
| And it's only because he wasn't banned he was able to become, you know, pulled back into the mainstream. | ||
| But if they just said, get rid of him... | ||
| You think he's going to want to be homeless and starving? | ||
| He's going to try and figure out how to make money. | ||
| He's going to go on cryptocurrency. | ||
| He's going to go hang out with people who are willing to support him. | ||
| And he was doing some stupid racist stuff, so who do you think is going to support him? | ||
| We can't have that. | ||
| We need to welcome people back into society and give them a chance to be part of the mainstream and the norm. | ||
| I think we are seeing the gradual, like, it's likely in my opinion. | ||
| I think we don't realize we're in it, we don't realize we're in a forest, we just see trees around us, you know what I mean? | ||
| It would be a damn shame because we will look back and for all the people that think it's so bad and we all hate each other and everything, these are the good old days. | ||
| If that happens, and I will do everything I can to make sure it doesn't. | ||
| One criticism that I hear a lot from people is that when I first went on Rogan, the first time, and said that what's going on with Twitter is maybe one of the biggest problems we're facing today, I saw comments from people who hate me who were like, that's the stupidest thing, Tim Poole's a moron, he thinks Twitter's that important. | ||
| Kevin Hart lost hosting the Oscars because he tweeted something. | ||
| The Oscars are a major cultural event that was impacted because of one joke he made on a platform. | ||
| So I think to myself, maybe it is exaggerated. | ||
| And then I think to myself, you know what it actually is? | ||
| I'll give you another quick anecdote. | ||
| I was driving down Roosevelt Avenue in Chicago, going to the suburbs, and I looked in my mirror and I saw a squad car. | ||
| And I said, ooh, I should get off the road right now. | ||
| He might pull me over. | ||
| Oh, I'm being paranoid. | ||
| He then turns, gets into the left turn lane, puts his left signal on, He pulled in front of me, sped up, and I thought to myself, he wasn't going to pull me over. | ||
| Maybe I should get off the road just in case. | ||
| Nah. | ||
| He pulled me over. | ||
| So I thought from then on, I was like, maybe if my intuition tells me that something's about to happen, I should pay attention to that. | ||
| And I will say this too, I... | ||
| I've been wrong about a few things. | ||
| Like, I said I thought the Republicans were going to sweep the midterms. | ||
| It was a bit mixed. | ||
| They took the Senate. | ||
| But I've consistently said we're going to see more violence, things are going to get worse, and it's been sporadic. | ||
| So, I don't know if I can say I'm right or wrong yet, but I think with the people marching around with guns, with, you know, the ever-increasing escalation of violence. | ||
| We just had some Proud Boys plead guilty to the mob violence in New York. | ||
| It was like gang violence or something. | ||
| I'm hoping it's not true. | ||
| I don't know what the percentage would be if I was going to give it a probability. | ||
| I lean—I would just say this. | ||
| I believe it's greater than chance. | ||
| We will have an escalation of civil conflict continually. | ||
| And I don't think it's going to stop. | ||
| Look, when you—I was talking to my brother about this. | ||
| If you want to truly understand why you come to the point of civil war or conflict or insurgency, I want you to go to one of these regressive leftists, look them in the eye and say, a biological male can never be biologically female. | ||
| And they can't. | ||
| There is nothing in their brain that will ever comprehend that. | ||
| I have people from Occupy Wall Street who are now posting on Facebook, this guy said, I can't believe people think male and female are objective things that exist. | ||
| I think these people are just stupid. | ||
| And so I sent him some research, and I said, look at these statistics. | ||
| Intersex is 1.7%. | ||
| That's from the intersex, you know, lobbying groups. | ||
| And he said, I can't believe you actually think this is real. | ||
| You're crazy or just stupid. | ||
| And I'm like, if there is something as basic as I can actually look at a man and a woman and know which one's the man and the woman. | ||
| I can't actually look at the Earth being round without some special tool or math. | ||
| Yeah, these are the people that tell you that the conservatives don't believe in science, too. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And we know the Earth is round. | ||
| We can't see it with our eyes, but we know it from our communities in science. | ||
| I can look at a man and a woman and tell you which one is which. | ||
| In not every case. | ||
| I respect that. | ||
| But if you get to a point where there's someone who believes so fundamentally that something that is real isn't, what happens when it comes to blows? | ||
| One of my favorite lines on this is Douglas Murray, who I'm sure you're familiar with. | ||
| I asked him, you know, how does he envision this? | ||
| Sort of same question. | ||
| And he said, you know, one day the barbarians will be at the gate and we'll be debating what pronoun to call them. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| That kind of gets there. | ||
| Well, listen, if there's a little sliver of hope here, I absolutely think you're part of it. | ||
| And watching you grow through this whole freaking thing has been awesome. | ||
| So let's keep trying to fix this thing, right? | ||
| Why not? | ||
| Yeah, I just don't know. | ||
| I just don't. | ||
| I'm not hopeful, though. | ||
| After that conversation with Jack, I'm like, damn. | ||
| Not hopeful. | ||
| It's nuanced. | ||
| There's some things I think he listened to and maybe he'll do right, but I really feel like all of his lieutenants are smug, condescending, arrogant. | ||
| We know it's right. | ||
| We're gonna do it anyway. | ||
| I'm like, welcome to the tyranny, it's the end. | ||
| For more with Tim Pool, it's just slash Timcast? | ||
| On YouTube? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah, yeah, yes. | ||
| It's youtube.com slash Timcast. | ||
| And you gonna get a new beanie one of these days? | ||
| I actually, no, this isn't. | ||
| That one is new. | ||
| Yeah, it's not the same one. | ||
| I have just a bunch of different ones. | ||
| Similar style, different companies. | ||
| It depends on the color of shirts I'm wearing, you know. | ||
| Catch all the beanies and all the truth at youtube.com slash Timcast. |
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