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July 25, 2024 - Ron Paul Liberty Report
33:23
Biden Quits...To 'Save Our Democracy'? With Guest Jeff Deist

Former Ron Paul chief of staff Jeff Deist joins today's Liberty Report to break down Biden's bizarre TV appearance last night to explain why he's dropping out of the 2024 race. Does it add up? How much of a threat is Kamala to Trump? What does Trump need to do to win?

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Longtime Libertarian Insights 00:01:56
Hello, everybody, and thank you for tuning in to the Liberty Report.
With us today, we have Daniel McAdams, our co-host.
Daniel, good to see you.
Good morning, Dr. Paul.
How are you this morning?
Doing well, and we have a special guest.
You've met him before, I think, a couple times.
And I've known him since 1988.
Of course, he wasn't working for me back then.
He was probably still in high school.
I don't know.
But even in the first, but that makes me aware of the fact that our guest has been dealing with and involved in libertarian ideas for a long time.
And maybe one of the reasons we met again in the congressional office, and how did he do it?
He was chief of staff.
He was your boss, right?
Okay, he was chief of staff there.
And then he moved along to the Mises Institute.
Well, that makes sense.
The Mises Institute.
And he was there a couple months.
No, 10 years.
So that's Jeff Dice.
Jeff, welcome to our program today.
Hello, Rhonda.
Daniel, good to see you.
Very good.
Greetings, Jeff.
What are you doing?
Jeff now is at Monetary Medals.
He's back in the private sector.
Well, that sounds like he would know that subject very well.
It has something to do with money at times.
That's right.
Definitely.
Very good.
Well, there are so many things to talk about because of all the political things going on.
Sometimes and some days I get sick and tired of listening to it because I might listen to a report.
I still use the TV to listen to some of this report.
And then the TV will be on later.
It's the same old thing over and over again in the same malarkey that you have to listen to.
But, you know, and all this stuff, the big thing is, is Trump, Biden was talked into leaving to save democracy.
Saving Pure Democracy? 00:15:26
And I don't know whether we want to save pure democracy, but their idea of democracy is a farce.
I don't think they did this.
But they picked the next leader, but not by their ideas of democracy.
Rather, by shenanigans, as usual.
Jeff, just comment on some of those things going on.
And what do you think about the process that Biden has finally retired from running for office because he wants to save democracy?
You know, it's interesting.
I was talking to Daniel offline about how there's this feeling that's starting to spread around among Normie's that the system is just so irretrievably broken.
And of course, Dr. Paul's been talking about that for decades.
He's been saying the monetary system, the dollar, the congressional system, the entitlement system, the warfare state, all these things have been broken.
So people in our circles, Daniel and I came up through ANCAP and libertarian circles.
I mean, we've been singing this song for a long time, but in a sense, I think the public is starting to realize that not just that democracy as practiced in America.
In other words, do they really count the votes correctly?
What about all this absentee and electronic voting?
Did they install Kamala Harris rather than putting her through a primary process?
Will they let RFK be part of the debates?
We all suspect that democracy isn't working as practiced.
But I think our political program is to convince people that democracy doesn't work even in theory, in the sense that government needs to be restrained and needs to be held to rules and laws.
And the fact that a naked majority of people vote for something does not grant it legitimacy.
We have, per George Orwell, we've allowed democracy to become a synonym, in effect, for legitimate when it comes to governance.
And fascist has just become a catch-all phrase for illegitimate, things we don't like.
So that's very dangerous.
And the idea that the public, or at least sectors of the public, are waking up to the idea that American democracy is not sacred, that the people who talk about it being sacred are deeply unserious and corrupt and simply mean to take political power.
I think that's a healthy thing.
You know, many people have heard my little story about how I got interested, you know, in the monetary issue and libertarianism.
And that was early on, even in the 50s.
It might have been with the Goldwater, you know, and the early things that were coming up back then.
But right now, when I went there, I was interested in economics and monetary policy, but it didn't take me long to realize, even before I knew what was going on in Washington, to get an intense interest in foreign policy, realizing, you know, the money issue is a key.
It's the machinery where you subsidize all the evil, you know, whether it's welfare, warfare, political power.
And this, this, the whole thing about what's going on now with Ukraine.
Another example of the things that we, are you in Washington with us and Daniel's with me and with our RPI, we want to try to stop this thing because eventually they seem to come our way and say, you know, they're condemning the leaving of Afghanistan.
It was a tragedy, but the tragedy was going in.
And then I think, well, they must have forgotten about Vietnam, how many people died and that, leaving that thing, that area.
But right now, there's been a shift in attitude coming from the Ukrainians.
And this to me, I think it probably is significant, and I want your opinion, that this is maybe the exhaustion point.
And I think maybe the one story I heard was, well, we need to get out of Ukraine because, and this came from a Republican, we need to get out of Ukraine because we need to go after China.
So I don't think we've won this battle yet on what the RPI is interested in, and that is a non-interventionist foreign policy.
Well, I think one of your projects during your time in Washington, certainly Daniel's project, was to sever this absurd dichotomy that there's foreign policy and domestic policy.
It's all one policy.
And as we know, at least modern wars that the U.S. has waged are fiscally disastrous.
Our federal government's always gotten into enormous debt, even going back to the Civil War, so-called.
But certainly during the two great wars of the 20th century, certainly during Vietnam and Korea and then Iraq and Afghanistan, the U.S. government and the U.S. taxpayer were forced to spend wildly beyond tax receipts.
So we should disabuse the public of that there's foreign policy and domestic policy.
It's all one policy.
Interventionism is interventionism.
And of course, what's happening in Ukraine is a form of exhaustion.
And thankfully, we in the U.S., we're exhausted, I guess, hearing about it.
We're exhausted paying for it.
But the poor Ukrainians themselves, who are basically puppets and set up to go into a war they could never win against a much stronger opponent.
I heard Viktor Orban the other day talking about, you know, in Hungary, we have real Riopolitik, not just the fake kind.
And that means that we understand we can never defeat the Soviet bear.
We have to live with it.
And so that informs his perspectives on alliances or friendships or at least diplomacy with Putin, you know, who the West has gymed up as the next Hitler.
The Ukrainians have not had that luxury.
And of course, all the saber-rattling by NATO certainly had a part to play in forcing Putin's hand, perhaps.
But the idea that the United States is involved in this has been absolutely disastrous for the Ukrainian people.
Their young men have been conscripted.
And now, as a result of this, we gave them false hope, and they are dying because of it.
Jeff, you said something in your opening that actually caused me to change my question because it's interesting, and I wouldn't mind thinking about it a bit and hearing a little bit more fleshed out.
You sort of ascend, basically you said this is our time.
You know, we libertarians, this should be our time.
Everything's been tried.
Pardon me, and it's failed, obviously.
But there seem to be so many distractions now that are coming between us and getting the message out better.
You know, you have this whole idea of this national conservatism movement, which is neither.
And I think Kelly of Lajos did a great job last week, I think it was, writing about it, the fact that it's just another neocon front organization.
But you have this, you have populism, you have now economic populism with JD Vance.
Why does it seem like it's, even though this is our time, why do you think it's so difficult for us to break through the din?
And what do you think we can do better?
Well, in the sense you have to look beyond the rhetoric to the substance.
I mean, there is a populist fervor right now.
And I think that's entirely justified because elites have failed us in every way.
And so they deserve to have a little bit of populism, good and hard, I would argue.
And so the 21st century question seems to be elites versus populist fervor.
That seems to be the question, not socialism versus capitalism, which was the big question of the 20th century.
And so as people who believe in political and economic liberty, it feels like our voice isn't out there because obviously the left is just a disastrous morass of, I don't even want to think about how I would describe the modern left, but the populist right,
of course, is prone to, first of all, not being truly non-interventionist, still captured by foreign interest and defense lobbyists, but also being guilty of some gross economic errors in terms of protectionism and that sort of thing.
So we feel like we don't have a home, but I don't think that's valid.
I think the fact that people are questioning and noticing like never before, I think the idea that where does Trumpism come from?
Well, you can draw threads back to perhaps even Pat Buchanan.
You know, you can draw threads from Goldwater to Reagan.
So when Goldwater was soundly defeated, who would have thought that Reagan would result just 15 years later, whatever it was?
When Ron Paul had his two campaigns, I think those had a lot to do with creating the Tea Party and then creating Occupy Wall Street and then even creating the Trump phenomenon.
So I don't allow the news cycle to make me despondent for one.
But libertarians have a challenge, and that's because they've made some gross errors themselves.
One of which is failing to understand that tribes and nations are organic, spontaneous things, even though states themselves, modern states, are not.
And the idea that we should simply view consent and individualism as the lynchpins of what makes a proper society, that's just bonk.
I mean, we have to go and look at people how they are.
And so I'm not interested in a libertarianism that doesn't comport with human nature and reality.
Yeah, that's a great point, Jeff.
I'm going to go back to my original question.
I couldn't let that pass because it's an important point, I think.
But if we can go back to the Biden address, now I didn't watch it all.
My guess is you might not have either, Jeff.
I looked at the Zero Heads Write Up and I looked at the transcript.
But you don't need to have seen it to get this point.
And I think it's, I just want to get your reaction because it seems to me bizarre.
So on the first, Dr. Paul, you mentioned it earlier.
He has to pass the torch because he wants to save our democracy, which is strange because he was actually elected and she wasn't.
She didn't get a single vote.
But he's got to let her become the nominee to save democracy.
Whatever the case.
But here's his bill of particulars.
He says he's the first president this country, in this century, to preside over a country in no wars.
Then he said, today we have the strongest economy in the world.
Wages are up.
Inflation is down.
He says manufacturing has come back to America.
Violent crime is at a 50-year low.
And we have fewer illegal border crossings than when Trump left.
So if all of these are true and he hasn't cited illness as a reason to step down, why would he be stepping down?
It seems absolutely bizarre to me.
It is.
Well, it's orchestrated, for one.
And more importantly, they lie so effortlessly and they lie so reflexively that it forces all of us to question everything.
And that's very, very tiring.
That can wear you out.
I mentioned demoralization or becoming despondent.
It's very easy given the news cycle.
And, you know, I don't watch an address by Joe Biden.
That's too reptilian for me.
But I do read David Stockman.
Only in the mornings, folks.
Don't read David Stockman before bed.
Read him in the mornings with your coffee.
And so I got the lowdown.
And, you know, it's obviously a dog and pony show.
And I think the Obamas are probably not too happy behind the scenes about Biden's coronation of Kambala Harris.
But I think we have to think about a North Star.
And I think we have to prepare ourselves for either a Harris administration or a Trump administration.
And either way, we are going to have very serious attempts to capture things.
I mean, go read Bob Woodward's book, Fear, which describes a situation in the Trump White House where not only were Ivana and Jared in their little cubbies right next to the Oval Office, but his main advisors, his Pentagon, his CIA, his joint chiefs, his own vice president.
And there are lots and lots of parallels to JFK here.
We're actively working to undermine him.
So we shouldn't kid ourselves with this idea that if Trump wins, we've avoided this catastrophe in Kamala.
The catastrophe is working independent of elections and it's working below the surface like an iceberg, we might analogize.
And that's where our focus should be.
Very good.
You know, I've thought a lot about this.
You mentioned the lying that goes on and they're pretty good at it.
And some people think it's a noble lie and it's very important.
But in thinking about this, I finally have come to the conclusion that we have to answer the question because we think more normally that people do things and they make mistakes and they're sorry and they apologize in a normal, polite way.
But that never happens with these monsters who get political power because they're convinced that they're right about denialism.
They think that seeking truth is a waste of time.
There is no such thing as truth.
And so they march on and they lie and scheme and they don't have shame or guilt or whatever.
The ultimate goal, though, I think we can at least try to pinpoint that too on the groups like this because everybody seems to cooperate with it.
But I think since World War II, the whole motivation, of course, we were wealthy and we had military power and we had the reserve currency and it set us up for this.
And that was to make long-term plans was to build the American empire.
And they've been pretty good at that.
But as we know, those things don't last forever and we're seeing the cracks.
And the bankruptcy, both of the financial and the moral bankruptcy, is coming to fruition.
And I think big things are ahead.
But we talk about the deep state.
And nobody has a precise definition of that.
But I look at it as people with a lot of money and a lot of clout and a lot of interest that they are ones that pull the strings and have been very much involved here in the last week or two.
They certainly were involved, people wanting to do some changes in the 60s with the assassinations that went on.
But I think the motivation really is, and you hear it from both sides now because the conservatives will talk about it too, American greatness, but usually they associate that with military greatness.
And so I think if we had a little bit of improvement over people understanding about telling the truth and not spending all our effort to keep the empire alive and keep building it, but I think all this is going to change.
Well, it's going to change the easy way or the hard way.
Let's hope it's the easier way.
And with technology and modernity, we understand that the pace of change, the rate of change is accelerating.
I don't know why we wouldn't expect that to apply to empires as well.
We're not going to have thousand-year empires anymore.
We're going to have 200-year empires maybe in our case, and maybe 50-year empires next.
Pace Of Change Accelerating 00:04:03
I don't know.
But the idea that we can simply continue to use the dollar and the military as weapons, de facto weapons of imperialism, is just not going to last.
There's a lot of people on earth, billions and billions of them.
There's only 335 million of us.
And the rest of the world is not going to just accept this arrangement forever.
And we just lack so much in humility in this country.
Imagine, apart from policy, just imagine what we would give today for a Jimmy Carter or a Dwight Eisenhower or God help us, a Calvin Coolidge.
You know, the megalomania, this hubris, is, you know, that is, if there's a single word you can apply to a delusional empire that's tottering towards its end, it's hubris.
And that's what we've got in spades here.
Yeah, hubris and circuses, because, you know, I don't know if you ever look at congressional hearings anymore, Jeff.
I don't often, but the level of language is extremely low.
A lot of curse words are being used by members.
And I mentioned it the other day.
People attacked me for saying that's not right.
But it is demeaning, and I think you're right, it reflects our era.
But I wanted to go back to something that you mentioned about Trump.
Now, Trump has, of course, his first term was in many cases a disappointment.
You're absolutely right.
It was a JFK scenario where literally everyone he hired had their hands on the knife that was stabbing him in the back, destroying his policies.
We know all of that now.
And there's no indication that he's learned from his mistakes.
And I think my position, at least, maybe it's Dr. Paul's as well, is that there's a possibility for something good to happen, for some things good to happen if he's re-elected.
There's probably zero if Kamala is re-elected, unless counting being in opposition is a plus, which may be.
But nevertheless, if Trump's going to win, I think it's pretty clear.
I don't know what your sense is.
When I first heard it was Kamala, I thought this is going to be a laugh.
This is going to be an absolute walk in the park for Trump.
I don't think that anymore.
I think she's going to be much more fierce, much more dangerous of a candidate to Trump than before.
And partially, it's the media.
I'm starting to see the rebranding of Kamala Harris, which is amazing.
Only four days after Biden said, I'm not, you know, released his little hostage note, I'm not running again.
You're seeing all sorts of branding, all sorts of placards, all sorts of billboards, all sorts of ads.
Wow, that moved pretty quickly.
So I think there's going to be a big push.
I think she's going to be a much harder candidate to beat for Trump than Biden was.
And so I think, tell me if you think I'm right or wrong.
I think he's definitely going to need the libertarian vote, a small L libertarian vote.
And there's a lot of us out there.
And if you agree, or what do you think he would need?
If you were to call you up and say, hey, Jeff, how do I get the libertarians out of it?
I'm not going to get them all, but how do I get some of them?
What would you tell them?
Yeah, it's so tough because, you know, again, in the era Daniel and I came up in, the goal was to create a less political society, right?
To have less of society organized around politics and so that we all didn't have to live and breathe politics in our daily lives.
And we don't want to do that.
We want to go build businesses and be with our families and pay a mortgage, right?
Americans don't want to be political.
But politics is interested in us, as they say.
And so, you know, when people look at Donald Trump, I think a lot of people like me say, well, for all of his faults, he doesn't hate my guts.
And when I look at Kamala Harris or Hillary Clinton or Joe Biden, I know for a fact that they hate my guts.
So that's, I think, a very Leninist who, whom, us, them type starting point for things.
But we can't forgive Trump's COVID errors.
We can't forgive his pushing of a vaccine.
And we certainly can't forgive Michael Bolton.
Or John Bolt, excuse me.
I'm thinking of the singer, Michael Bolton.
I'm thinking of office space, the movie.
Yeah, John Bolton.
Economic Statistics and Homeowners Insurance 00:05:07
So, you know, personnel or policy and then having Ivanka, Ivana, sorry, and Jared close by whispering in his ear, really disastrous.
Could a second term be better?
I suppose it could.
I don't know a lot about JD Vance.
I'm not an anti-populist.
A lot of libertarians, I think, again, that's a gross error to be dismissive of populism in favor of this sort of cosmopolitan classical liberalism.
Huge error.
But I don't think we have a lot of choice.
I mean, I wish RFK Jr. had been a viable third-party candidate.
He could have been a Ron Paul or a Ross Perot had he stuck to his guns, and he could have been something.
And I know David Stockman is still promoting him.
And I think there was some hopefulness there, someone who could have a positive message who, again, didn't hit our guts.
But he lost the plot pretty badly.
So, you know, it's a tough question for us, those of us who don't like politics.
I'm not a voter.
I know Daniel's not a voter.
Is this here an exception?
I mean, one thing he could do, if nothing else, and I know this sounds tried, but if nothing else, just let Ross out of jail, please.
I mean, you know, I mean, that would be something right there.
Exactly.
I want to talk a little bit about economic statistics in relationship to the discussion we had about people who lie.
And I think that's where a lot of lies are put out.
Like today, the GDP was up significantly and everybody's ecstatic and they change their, you know, markets move quickly like that, which helps us a little bit.
But sometimes these announcements, you have one in the Federal Reserve's meeting and they have an announcement.
They can change one word or one phrase.
And the immediate reaction, of course, with the help of the media, becomes political.
If you can convince the people that things are doing well and the employment rate is high, but they lie about employment, they might say, we created 10 million more new jobs, but 9.9 million of them were government jobs, this sort of thing.
There's so many lies.
Some people would say, if I would say, you know, we don't need the government making all these statistics.
Why can't that be down elsewhere?
And of course, I say, that's too big a job.
We've got to give it to the government.
And of course, that's a weapon they use, and it's the principle.
They don't care if they mislead people and people go broke, you know, over.
And so I think when you're, since you do a lot in economic policy, do you feel like you have to all of a sudden say, well, I heard that statistic, but if GDP went up, maybe some prices went up.
Maybe that affected the GDP and it's all deception.
Do you feel as frustrated with the news?
I don't know whether the word is frustration, the rejection of what I hear coming from the government.
Well, and also we have a fairly lapdog financial and economic press, and they sit around and wait for these FOMC meetings and all this with bated breath.
I mean, it's all rather silly.
Before you started talking about monetary policy in the public setting, maybe 25 years ago now, even amongst economists, monetary policy was considered a backwater and nobody paid any attention to it.
Certainly the voting public didn't.
So I think you deserve some of the credit for bringing the whole issue of the Fed to the fore and making it a populist issue.
I think that's been a huge shift.
And they do lie.
They lie incessantly about the statistics by using various mechanisms.
The American public smells a rat.
Everyone knows their money's not going as far and their raises or their income's not growing as fast as inflation and really critical things like homeowners insurance.
Whether you rent or whether you've got a house, you're paying homeowners insurance directly or indirectly.
And of course, that's not reflected in CPI.
It's been rising dramatically.
We have insurance companies pulling out of markets in California and Florida.
And we have some, especially seniors who may be fortunate enough to own their house outright and have paid off their mortgage, actually just self-insuring and saying, well, I don't have a mortgage.
I'm not forced to get homeowners' insurance.
So I'm going to roll the dice because I don't want to pay $15,000 a year, let's say.
So that's just one tiny example of why the statistics no longer work for us.
And like any other institutions in America, you know, whatever, so many institutions have collapsed in front of us that I don't know why we can no longer even trust the Bureau of Economic Analysis, the BEA stats, or the OMB, the Office of Management and Budget, which, of course, David Stockman used to run.
That used to be rigidly impartial.
And you too will certainly remember when the Congressional Research Service was absolutely nonpartisan and was totally reliable for members of Congress and their staffs.
Career Paths Unleashed 00:02:00
And even that during the W years started to become captured.
So, you know, statistics lie, that is absolutely for sure.
Okay, we're going to finish in a minute or two, but why don't you close out and give the advice that you would give some young people who have heard about libertarianism and the problems?
Can you summarize, you know, as succinctly as possible what they should be doing?
You know, how do they make progress and how would you invite them into becoming excited about what we're trying to do?
Well, I think first and foremost, if you just read, if you read serious books, even 10 pages a day, you will be head and shoulders above your peers, not only in your understanding and your knowledge, but also in your writing, because reading smart people who write well is the best way to improve your own writing and speaking, for sure.
And just going out there and saying, hey, you know what?
I have to diversify my talents and my skills.
I have to develop some abilities that have value in the marketplace.
Because unlike if you're a 20-something, let's say, unlike maybe your grandfather or even your great-grandfather, you're not going to work at Acme Steel Mill for 60 years or 50 years and get a gold watch.
And some of those paths that were open in Dr. Paul's youth, if you became a lawyer, a doctor, a teacher, an accountant, that was probably a pretty certain income and certain middle-class lifestyle was, a lot of those career paths have now fallen away.
So it's not fair.
It's not right.
The housing situation is deeply skewed against you.
And a country of this size and capability should be building $125,000 houses and condos all day long.
It's an absolute crime that those are not available to you.
And the career paths are not available to you.
Marriage is not as easily available to you.
Home ownership, all of these things.
So it's not fair and it's not right.
Separate Yourself and Thrive 00:04:07
And as a Gen Xer, I certainly concede that.
But that's not the point right now.
The point is to separate yourself, to be part of that 10 or 20% that's out there that's thinking entrepreneurial, that's gaining skills and saying, hey, my career is going to be different.
I have to build it myself.
I can't just rely on some college degree or some corporate job track.
And you're far better equipped if you just accept that reality and go out there and prove us older generations wrong.
That's, I think, would be the best thing any young person could do.
Very good.
I want to make sure that you understand we deeply appreciate working with you and you coming on our program.
So that's very helpful.
And we will continue the association, obviously, for the benefit of promoting our ideas.
Daniel has another closer.
So I just wanted to close it out on my end, Jeff, and I wanted to inform our viewers that I'm sure you enjoyed this conversation a lot.
We are grateful that Jeff Deist has been with us at Ron Paul Institute conferences many times.
I'm not sure you've been to everyone, Jeff, but I know you have been a speaker at many of our conferences.
And we're absolutely thrilled you're going to join us again in DC on August 31st to share your insights, which I was, you know, I was telling Dr. Paul earlier, Jeff is great because he transcends.
He can talk about economics.
He can talk about culture.
He can talk about foreign policy.
And putting them all together, I think, is what you have specialized in.
And it's so important.
So I know our viewers are going to want to hear a lot more of what Jeff Deist has to say.
And you can do that in D.C.
And, by the way, if you're an upper division undergrad or grad student, Jeff Dice will be giving a special talk at the Ron Paul Scholars Seminar.
I will also include a link there where you can apply to be a Ron Paul scholar for the event on August 30th, August 30th, and then you come to the conference August 31st.
So thanks very much for joining us, Jeff.
Back over to Dr. Paul.
Very good.
And I want to close by talking about how difficult our efforts are.
And it should be easier.
I can't understand why we don't do a better job in spreading a message, which I think is a pretty darn good message.
But there are obstacles.
And one is what Jeff alluded to, and that is ideas and reading.
And yes, we need to do more of that and expose them to what liberty is all about.
But over the last hundred years or so, there's been a progressive movement that has been significant enough where the educational system has been corrupted, the governmental system, the Department of Justice certainly has been.
The media is on the side of all this nonsense that goes on.
And yet, we have a good message, but we also have to recognize there's a tremendous obstacle there.
But I don't know of any other thing to do other than what Jeff suggests.
Read and find out.
And Leonard Reed used to say, if you become knowledgeable and you're comfortable with it and you're defending something that you truly believe in and that it's a positive, they said, don't worry about where you're going to go or what you're going to do because people will come to that individual and want to seek this information and the reassurance.
But we need to do a better job because we have a wonderful message of peace and prosperity.
And we do know that the freer a country is and the more moral the country is, the more prosperous it is.
So there's every reason why we should pass this up.
But the immediate gratification of a welfare state and warfare state encourages immorality and the fact that they can plunder the rest of the people and then the secret governments that really get control is our obstacle.
But I still don't know any other, I don't know any other advice that can be equivalent to understand the message and do something.
Sounds Good, Do Whatever 00:00:27
I was asked frequently at college campuses, okay, Dr. Paul, this sounds good, but what do I do?
I said, do whatever you want to do, whatever you're capable of doing, because I'd like to be a great singer and sing about this, but I can't do that.
So everybody has a job, and some people are good at it, but to do nothing is not advice you're going to get from me.
But I do want to thank all our viewers for tuning in today to this report.
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