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Nov. 9, 2023 - The Roseanne Barr Podcast
01:20:42
#022 Dinesh D"Souza | The Roseanne Barr Podcast
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Greetings Earthlings!
Welcome to the Roseanne Barr podcast.
I have such an interesting show today because I have a fantastically interesting guest and I'm very excited.
I watched his film last night.
He's a great filmmaker and a great thinker and a great American citizen.
Dinesh D'Souza, hi!
Hey, it's great to be here and it's a surreal experience for me to be sitting next to you.
Thank you.
Looking forward to this.
Yeah, I want to go right into watching your film which is called Police State, right?
Yes.
You know, I came to the country, to the United States in 1978 as a teenager.
And I was exhilarated by American freedom, opportunity, but also these unalienable rights.
And there they are in the Bill of Rights, you know, freedom of speech, freedom of conscience, right to assemble, right to petition the government for grievances, equal rights, equal justice under the law.
And so here we fast forward to now, and I realized suddenly, whoa!
All these rights have come into jeopardy.
And the pretext might vary.
You know, it's 9-11, it's due to COVID, it's due to January 6th.
But whatever the rationale, the movement is in the same direction toward the extinguishing of our liberties.
And that's why the startling question, which really I couldn't have made, I couldn't have asked 10 years ago, are we becoming a police state?
That's the theme of the film.
Well, I love the film, I want to say, because, and I want to thank you for giving us a cohesive timeline, because I think that that's very much missing, and I think that it's missing on purpose.
Because they don't give us the... What's the word, Jake, when things go in a certain order?
It's sequential.
Sequential, yeah.
We don't have a sequential memory of how things start slowly and then keep going in small steps.
And you have made that very clear in the movie, and I think it's very needed for people, in order to wake them up so they see how their rights are being eroded and how dangerous that is.
Yeah, this police state has a genealogy, a storyline.
It has a starting point, and I was trying to think about where that starting point was.
I had to research this for the film.
Does it go back to, like, Watergate?
Does it go back to the days of J. Edgar Hoover, who was kind of a freak, you know, and liked to keep files, secret files on people, Martin Luther King and other people?
Does it go back to Ruby Ridge and Waco, those incidents from the 1990s, one under Bush, one under Bill Clinton?
And I think the real turning point is the years of George W. Bush, after 9-11.
And this is a little awkward to say, because although the police state is being driven by the left today, it has bipartisan roots.
Because after 9-11, there were many people, I'm sorry to say, me included, who said, okay, you know, we got these bad guys, these Islamic terrorists, they want to kill us.
We're going to have to give the government these enhanced powers.
And there were people then who warned, Ron Paul being one of them, Yeah.
And others, don't do that.
Don't give the government this kind of power.
It will be used against American citizens.
It'll be used against you.
And we were like, nah, that's not going to happen.
But it did happen.
And I think it started under Obama, the retooling, the reshifting of the police state toward political opponents.
And it's now escalated dramatically under Biden.
Yeah, it is terrifying, isn't it?
I mean, it is terrifying, and I like that you went into so much of that.
Who's being targeted?
Certainly not the, what is it, the number of millions of people who are pouring across the border unvetted, you know, to make up the population of three states, they say.
Certainly not them, but the target is Catholics.
Who believe you shouldn't, you know, abort their pro-life.
And, uh, you show a lot of that, the pro-life movement, people who are specifically, you know, aghast over the Democrat idea in New York, especially, of making it legal to abort babies after they're born alive, or up until the time they take their first breath.
People are aghast at that.
Yeah, I wanted to show that the police state is not simply Trump.
Right.
Because there are going to be guys who go, well, you know, I'm not Trump, Dinesh, and I didn't go in the Capitol on January 6th, and I pay my taxes.
I'm a good guy, so I don't have anything to worry about.
The police state is never coming after me.
I'm never going to hear the FBI battering ram or the helicopter over my lawn.
And I'm like, eh, don't be too so sure, because there are a lot of ordinary people, some of them school board, moms who go to school board meetings because they don't like what their kids are getting in school, and they discover that they're being watched.
They end up on these lists.
People who went to Washington, D.C.
around January 6th, but they didn't go to the Trump rally.
They didn't go in the Capitol.
And they're on a watch list, and there are federal marshals following them around to this day.
So all this kind of craziness is in the movie.
And I think the left is a little startled because they can't challenge it.
It's all going on.
There's not a single fact in the movie that's even open to dispute.
And so I think the movie has a very unnerving experience about people who are still, and many Republicans, many conservatives, still think, you know, we're living in a free society.
Don't get too excited.
We have nothing to really worry about.
The pendulum swings over here, but it's going to swing back.
Well, no.
Sometimes pendulums don't swing back.
They swing this way and they stay there.
And it takes a horrible set of circumstances.
Catastrophic war in the case of the Nazis.
The, you know, implosion of a whole society in the case of the Soviet Union.
And only then do you get change.
That's what really astounds me, is that the left, who, you know, I used to be left.
I was raised left, till I left the left.
Uh, but, uh, well, when I was in the left, we were for free speech.
You know, we, we were for dialogue and argument and, uh, you know, compromise.
I mean, all these things are not, they have no part in the left, nor surprisingly does any talk of labor rights.
Right.
We're dealing with a completely new left, and we're dealing with a completely different Democratic Party.
I mean, the Democratic Party was a one-party state, kind of, in the 19... from 1930s, FDR, all the way to Reagan.
Because there was a Republican Party, but it was kind of almost like a token opposition.
But the Democrats weren't the same Democrats as we have today.
They didn't want to take away your free speech rights.
They didn't want to shut you down.
They didn't want to put you in jail.
And we've had police states in our history, but they've tended to be, for a limited time, wartime, or they have tended to focus on, well, blacks obviously lived in a police state in the slavery South and in the post-Bellamy era.
But the idea of turning the whole country into a police state and criminalizing the entire opposition and trying to lock up the leader of the opposition party, this is unheard of.
It is.
So we have taken a dark turn in our country's politics.
And as you said, the goal of this film, people have seen it happening a little over here, digital censorship, criminalization of political differences, political prisoners.
Criminalization of Somebody who dissents against the sanctified narrative, too.
Right.
And often the narrative, they act like they're fighting misinformation and disinformation, but they are the number one purveyors of disinformation.
Yeah, that's what's astounding.
Things like, you know, if you take the vaccine, you can't get COVID.
Right.
If you take the vaccine, you can't give someone COVID.
This is coming out of the government.
Yeah.
And it's false.
But if you challenge it, they ban you for misinformation when they are the instruments of, they are the agents of misinformation.
Well, they're all in bed together and it seems like they're all pulling their wagons in a circle and they are horrified at the prospect that their web of power could be broken.
So doesn't that mean that it kind of is being broken in some ways?
Because if they weren't under some kind of feeling of threat, they wouldn't be saying anything.
There's no question that if they thought that they had a overwhelming majority of people on their side, they wouldn't need to do police-aid tactics.
The reason police-aid tactics and coercive tactics are used is you have to force people.
You have to bludgeon them, you have to batter them, you have to pressure them.
And I think this is going on at all levels of the society.
One of the issues we look at in the film is, you know, clearly every FBI agent can't be a thug.
They've got to be some ordinary guys who go in there.
They have a law enforcement background, military background.
But what happens is the police state is very cunning.
It is able to recruit good people to do bad things.
And it does it by removing the end goal from sight and focusing on the operational task.
I mean, I think this is how the Nazis did it.
That is how they do it.
Yeah, they're not going to say, you know, go kill these people and get rid of them.
They're like, listen, we, these, these people are like a minister society, but we're going to handle it.
You don't have to worry about what is their ultimate fate.
Your job is to like round them up.
Right.
Right.
That's your goal.
That's right.
We were just, you're just, your job is to label them and to find them and to identify them.
And if necessary to apprehend them.
The process will then take over from there and you don't worry about it.
Right.
I think that's what happens with the ordinary FBI agent.
There's a grandmother.
I realize she's 70 years old and you're not going to feel good about pulling her hair and twisting arms behind her back, but guess what?
She's doing something really bad and you don't worry about what it is.
You just go get her.
We'll then put her before the courts.
We will deal with it.
And then the FBI guy goes, well, you know, I don't want to be, I want to be on the team.
I want to be one of the guys.
I want to get a bonus.
I want to, I'm just following orders.
Good Germans.
They're good Germans.
It's the good Germans, you know.
They brought MKUltra over here in Operation Paperclip after World War II.
They brought all that Nazi intelligence over to the United States.
And they never gave it up, and it was how to control population with mass mind control.
And of course we have the media, which is self-evident to everyone who watches it.
I used to think it only told one side, but now I realize it doesn't tell the truth of any side.
It has a whole third thing going on.
It's very disturbing because in classic police states, think of like, you know, Goebbels in Germany, or even Stalin, they had a minister of propaganda, they ordered the media, you gotta say this, you gotta say that.
Our media is ostensibly independent.
You've got all these news organizations, thousands of independent journalists.
So it's even more mysterious how you get our media to sing out of the same hymn book When nobody is directly providing a hymn book and nobody's forcing them to all sing the same music, but they do.
But I think Elon Musk proved that they were in cahoots.
And that's the definition of fascism.
One corporation's getting better with the government.
So the government, you know, the Biden administration and the Obama administration, um, to get Trump, I mean, the Obama administration in order to get Trump was calling Zuckerberg and all these people and saying, you will, you know, you will say he's a Russian agent and you will say Russia, Russia, Russia.
And you will say that and you'll say it every day for four years, everywhere.
Absolutely.
No, I mean, there was the intelligence officials who put out the false narrative that the Hunter Biden laptop was Russian disinformation.
The media went with it.
It shows that our police state is a big octopus that stretches across the public sector and the private sector.
It includes academia and the media, so many elements of our society.
That's part of what makes it so disturbing because part of it can be fixed with, you
know, Trump goes back in the White House.
Yeah, he can redo the FBI.
He can redo the Department of Homeland Security.
But you know what?
YouTube is still going to ban people, and Facebook is still going to ban people, and so you need the courts to do their part.
So, interestingly... They don't do that either.
Yeah.
Now, the court is taking a big case.
There's a big free speech case... I know.
I was so happy to see that.
...coming up next spring.
And, you know, I wish they had kept an injunction saying to these digital platforms, in the meantime, you cannot collude.
with the government, but they said, you can do what you want right now,
we're going to take the case in the spring.
So let's see what they decide.
They could administer a really good dropkick to censorship. That would be very good.
It would be very good for America to not have censorship of...
Yeah, it wouldn't end private censorship.
So YouTube could still have its own guidelines, but they couldn't collude with the government.
I think that's the... the court can withdraw the grubby hand of the government from this censorship operation, and that alone would be progress.
Yeah, that would be progress.
And it would be progress if they were in collusion with any government anywhere on Earth.
Well, this is important because the police state, you saw this in the film, of course, there's a global aspect to it.
The UN is involved, the World Economic Forum, and it is eerie to see how the same, you'll hear some rhetoric in America and you think it's like homegrown, you know, like American nonsense.
But it isn't.
No, there isn't Canada.
There isn't New Zealand of all places.
Australia, Europe.
So this concept of a police planet becomes very disquieting.
And think about it.
Historically, I mean, Mao was able to do it in China and the Soviets within the vast Russian Empire.
But none of them could create a worldwide tyranny.
Absolutely.
And ironically, technology, which is in so many ways an instrument of liberation,
now enables tyrannical control to a degree that these earlier powers could never have dreamed of.
I know, I thought that, you know, if Hitler had had computers,
it's like that, because it's that same intelligence.
It's that same mind set that, you know, wants world domination for a few at the expense of the many.
And the useless eaters, we're kicking them off this planet.
It's just pure Nazism.
Yeah.
And Stalinism combined.
So they can't be blaming each other.
You know, there was a Stalin-Hitler pact that everybody forgets about.
And that's what it seems to me is going on.
The right wing and the left wing are exactly the same to me.
And I want to ask you, how far along down this path towards total lockdown and police state world do you think we are?
And can we turn around?
I would say that on a scale of 1 to 10, we are somewhere between 6 and a 7.
Which is to say, we're not there yet.
We're not even close to being a full-fledged police state.
Frankly, for a full-fledged police state, I can't make a movie called Police State.
Right.
So the point of making the movie is to sound a warning, an alarm, before we get to that point where it's too late and the jaws of the police state have like slammed shut.
But, you know, when you look at police states around the world, let's take North Korea right now, China, Iran, Venezuela, Cuba, and the old Soviet Union.
And you ask, well, what do those places all have in common?
What are the five or six things that they all have?
Well, they have mass surveillance of citizens.
They have widespread censorship.
They have ideological indoctrination and propaganda in the schools and in the media.
They are one-party states where they try to shut down opposition and lock up the leaders of the opposition party.
They undermine religious liberty.
They have political prisoners.
So just take that list and go down the checklist and see which of those things you now see in America.
Well, all of them.
To some degree or another, they're all here.
And that is enough to sound the alarm and say that this is not an idle fear.
In fact, we had a bunch of people at our Mar-a-Lago premiere who've grown up in police states.
There was a woman from China who was there last night.
And she was like, I really see how eerie it is to see Maoism, is how she puts it, kind of rearing its face.
I call it Obamaoism.
Obamaoism.
What do you think of that?
That's a good one.
Thank you.
good one. Thank you. Yes, because I think he is the, you know, I don't, someone in the
film says, normally police states have a dictator and you know who's running it
and it's, you know, in the Soviet Union of course it was initially Lenin and then
Stalin and on to Khrushchev, Brezhnev, Chernenko, Andropov and so on.
In China, Xi.
And maybe in Russia, Putin.
Who's running our police state?
And then there's an awkward silence, because we don't really know.
But we do know that the guy who was clearly the architect of getting us moving in that direction is Obama.
Yeah, well, this is his third term, I say.
You know, he said himself that he wanted a useless sock puppet and he'd sit in the basement with the microphone.
Well, hello!
Look around!
You see what I'm saying?
Absolutely.
I mean, I think Biden is a willing accomplice, but he is clearly not driving the canoe.
He's in the canoe, but someone else is moving the oars.
The same people that Made the Iran deal and that's why they had to get rid of Trump.
That's why they had to do what they did in 2020 because they had to bring that back because that's his, I think he sees himself as a messianic figure and that he was supposed to do that.
One thing that's amazing about Trump, we were talking about this a moment ago, was what is it about Trump that freaks these people out beyond Yeah.
you know anything else because Trump is politically a moderate. I know. Right I mean this is a guy who is
he's not talking about getting rid of the taxes completely he's not talking
about dismantling the federal government. He used to be a Democrat he donated.
He used to be a Democrat and the transformation of the treatment of Trump
from a kind of a cultural idol to being a cartoon villain is fascinating.
I think it's because when they realize their mind control didn't work on black people
anymore that they hugely panicked because Obama was
at that you know he was very much part of that.
And when they saw that at that time, it was 46% of black people were going to vote for Trump.
They had to reel that shit in.
That's exactly what I think.
And.
I think, uh, they had to invalidate all those black votes in those black precincts.
Cause when you look at the facts, that's exactly the votes that were thrown out were Trump votes, but they don't say, they say they, you know, that there's evidence that they, uh, invalidated Trump votes, but they don't say black Trump votes, but that's what it was.
So I think it's, you know, it's all.
Something bigger than anybody's given real thought to because they rely on that racist they they rely on gin and up racism because that's their Brown shirts in the street and you know, that's who they're using is you know, the youth the working-class youth heavily brown and black and and white too or the white kids seem to all come from privilege, but I That's how they act and forgive themselves for carrying on a system of racism in this country.
I mean, the 91 charges against Trump and the effort to just lock him up before the 2024 election, that is about as clear a hallmark of a police state as anything.
Because, in fact, if it happened in any other country, I mean, imagine if this was Poland and there was a leading candidate and he was, you know, Donald Trumpski, let's call him.
And suddenly they slap him one year before the election with 91 charges in multiple jurisdictions.
we would look at it and go, that country has become an authoritarian society.
We used to laugh at countries that did that.
Exactly. And yet there's so many people who don't recognize it when it shows up,
which really shows you that our police state has a camouflaged quality.
Yes.
Oh yeah, it's all.
You know, it doesn't have the Stalin overcoat, the Hitler mustache.
It is coming to you in the sweet tones of saving democracy.
They always say that.
Upholding the rule of law.
Protecting women's freedom.
One, it's just lawfare has nothing to do with law.
It's the inversion of law.
Yes.
But you have to look at the number of people in this country, heavily black people of America, who do know what's going on because it's been done on their population.
Trumping up charges, putting innocent people behind bars.
I mean, hello?
That's why people are seeing it and waking up in that community.
Cause they've seen it their whole lives and working class people have seen it their whole lives too.
And that's why they despise the working class because they voted for Trump.
That's fascinating.
We had a lot of people like that at our premiere.
And my wife, Debbie, was saying, she's like, you know what?
A lot of them understand.
When they see this movie, it resonates with them because they have more of a history of this.
And that's a good point because, see, America as a country is defined by innocence.
I mean, one of the things One of the classic American works, I'm an English major, is Huckleberry Finn.
And Huckleberry Finn has this wide-eyed conception of, like, everything is going to be good.
And if you see something bad, it's sort of startling that it's even going on.
Like, why is it happening?
This is America.
And we're, like, on the Mississippi River.
So Americans are slow to recognize something really diabolical that is getting a hold in this country.
But, of course, blacks.
No, it's happened before.
It happens in very insidious ways.
And so I think they respond immediately to this message.
I hope you're enjoying our show with Dinesh D'Souza and talking about his latest film, Police State, which is horrifying.
It's so great, but it's scary.
Anyway, I'm feeling really good.
That was a great movie, wasn't it?
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All right.
Let's get back to the Dinesh interview because this is fascinating.
Yeah.
He's really a cool guy, isn't he?
He's the best.
Yeah.
And I was going to say that Huckleberry Finn, of course, is the first censored book in the
schools and that was from the left.
And, you know, they don't want anybody to know what it's really about.
But it has, you know, the N word in it, because 150 years ago, that's what idiots said.
I mean, Mark Twain was a liberal, you know, and he is using the vernacular.
Well, and he's using it ironically.
Right.
So that the work is deeply anti-racist.
Of course.
And the friendship between Jim, the slave, and Hunk represents that innocent bonding that is two human beings who, in a sense, transcend slavery because of the way they just relate to each other, just as an older man and then a young boy.
But they're both runaways, interestingly.
A brilliant piece of work.
Speaking of brilliant pieces of work, getting back to you.
You're a great filmmaker and I just wanted to talk, I asked you before if you were a fan of movies and we talked about that for a while, but talk about the scope and the reach of movies and why that is something that's important to you.
Well, I've been making documentary films, and I made one feature film with my wife, Debbie, called Infidel.
But I started the documentaries 10 years ago, so it's not been the defining work of my career.
I was initially Kind of a think tank, intellectual type of guy, writing books, mainly giving speeches.
And then in 2012, I made a film on Obama.
And it was partly because I was looking at Obama and all the propaganda about Obama, that he's a civil rights guy, he's Martin Luther King tradition, Selma and Montgomery, and I'm like, That doesn't really ring true.
And then I read Obama's book, Dreams for My Father, and I realized, oh no, Obama comes out
of a completely different world.
And to understand Obama, I have to sort of go into that world.
And fortunately, it's easy for me to do it because that world is the world
of third world anti-colonialism.
And I grew up in that world.
That's India, in the aftermath of the British rule.
200 years of British colonialism in India.
So I kind of know that world.
But when I made that film on Obama, and it got me into trouble in certain ways, but putting that aside for a moment, I saw the power of the film.
Because I'd stand in the back of the theater and I'd watch people in the theater get really emotional, very moved.
And I looked around and I go, you know, if I did a book signing at Barnes & Noble for my earlier books, I wouldn't see any of these guys standing in that line.
So the film has an ability to reach people that I can't otherwise reach.
And the other beauty of a film is that it's show not tell.
So, I can talk to people all day about a police state.
And even if they have an intellectual grasp of it, they don't feel it.
Yeah, feel it.
Whereas in a movie, you see it, you feel it, you can experience, Orwell calls it, the boot stamping on the human face.
A movie can bring that home to you.
And that's the power of film.
And I was saying to you earlier that To me, a good documentary has all the same elements as a good feature film.
So a good feature film has plot, storyline, narrative, characters, suspense, climax, and so a good non-fiction film, a good documentary, should, in a different way, have all those things also.
And it does.
It really does.
And some of it's really beautifully, well, it's all beautifully done.
But I especially enjoy, I shouldn't say the ending, but you know, I always ruin people that come on.
I always talk about their endings and they're staring at me.
But I won't, I won't say it.
But at some point in the movie, You do make reference to Obama being so much a part of what we're seeing in the Biden administration.
And he did go after you, so I do want you to talk about that.
Because I think, like you said too about the left, they're okay with it when it happens to everybody else getting censored, but say what you said about how it kind of wakes them up.
It was also very eye-opening for me, and I'll talk about the case in a minute.
At that time, I had a lot of friends who were on the left from D.C.
Because when you're in that kind of intellectual world in D.C., it's all like one club.
And it's also a small world.
I go to a restaurant.
There's this guy from the Washington Post, EJ Dionne.
I'm like, hey EJ, how's it going?
How's your wife?
And I go to the bookstore, and there's some guy there from Senator Schumer's staff.
And I know the guy.
So I knew a lot of these guys.
And when my case first came up, I thought, oh, you know what?
These guys know me.
I mean, they realize I'm not a criminal.
So they're not going to be OK with this.
They're going to be like, Dinesh got shafted.
And I realized, no, none of them are willing to say that.
They'd see me in the bookstore, oh man, Dinesh, you're really good shafted.
I'm like, you know, EJ, some conservatives are saying that, and then Megyn Kelly says that on Fox News, but it'd be really nice if you said that.
Not a word.
Then I realized, well, this is not really quite what I thought it was.
Very eye-opening.
So my case involved a technical violation of the campaign finance laws.
I was trying to donate to a college friend of mine.
I gave $20,000 over the limit.
Which is, of course, a pittance compared to what Soros and all these guys give, you know, millions of dollars.
But in any event, normally this thing, they don't even do anything about it.
But if they do, community service, a small fine.
But when they brought the full force of the government against me, it ended up I was eight months in overnight confinement, paid a fine and a bunch of things.
It was very eye-opening, because I saw that these guys did not view me as just a dissident or even a political opponent.
They saw me as an enemy.
And the way they looked at it is, we gotta take this guy out.
And I'm convinced that those Obama lawyers, if they could have put me away for 10 years, 10 years, they would have done it.
And so I'm like, you know what?
There's a gangsterization that's in the U.S.
government now that I didn't see before, and it's got to reorient my politics.
And it doesn't reorient my philosophy, but it reorients my career and the way I approach things.
So you were asking me why I sort of have the fire, as you put it.
I think that's where it comes from.
It comes from the realization that we're not living in a lawful small town where I can be like Jimmy Stewart and the man who shot Liberty Valance, which is okay, listen, Guys, things are getting out of control.
Let me go to my law books and find a legal precedent.
No, I'm more like a guy with a covered wagon out West and there's outlaws circling my ranch and they want to, you know, burn my homestead and like rape my wife, kill my kids.
And so I'm going to have to respond to that situation.
And if I talk about, let me go find a legal precedent, you know, I would be, I would show no grasp of the situation as it is.
Right.
I feel the same thing was done to me too.
They were not happy to... It wasn't enough for them to cancel the only number one show they've had for decades, but to humiliate me and call me a racist for a tweet they didn't understand was about Iran.
They didn't understand one word of it, but it had the word Muslim Brotherhood in it.
And they can pretend all they want that it was something else, but Then they stole all my work, my lifetime of work, by lying to me.
And then they continued to call me a racist after I signed the paper agreeing with them that they would stop.
Then they continued and refused to let me on any television anywhere to explain.
So that, and then I found out that they were in communication with the Obama government administration people, Valerie Jarrett and Michelle, and that Obama called them after to congratulate them for doing that to me, for taking away any way of me supporting my large family, which I've done for 30 years.
They did all that to me over a tweet.
They didn't understand, refused to allow me to explain.
So I know it too.
I'm lucky that I didn't get to go to jail, but you know, I kind of understand how Trump feels too when every case one after the other is thrown out and laughed out of court, but they don't care about that because they only care about the immediate soundbite.
Yeah, you know, when I got the overnight confinement, I said to myself, I know what their goal is.
Their goal here is to degrade me, but more importantly, to ruin my career.
To shut me up.
So I said to myself, if I come out of this and I have a career that's bigger than it was before I went in, then I win.
But if I come out and I can't get work, and no one wants me to speak anymore, and I can't write a book because nobody wants to publish it, then they've won.
So that's the clear measure of who's gonna come out ahead of this.
And so I resolved to myself, whatever I do, who cares about being in the overnight confinement?
I mean, to me, that was like mildly amusing.
But it's like, when I get out, I've got to make sure that they don't succeed.
And I need to continue to make good films and continue to have a voice.
Of course, Trump's pardon helped me immensely because it was a big up yours to the Obama administration.
He knew that, and I knew that.
So, but yes, the pressure on Trump is unbelievable.
I don't know how any human being puts up with it.
I don't know how he does it.
I don't know how he does it either, but I have to say he didn't give me a pardon because I wasn't charged with anything other than being a racist after 30 years on the air as the most progressive voice on television.
But he did say, and I have it on tape, He said, you are so skinny!
It's the equivalent of the greatest thing that he's ever done.
my, you know, my, whatever you call it.
It's the equivalent of the greatest thing that he's ever done.
But I mean, Rosalind, I think what is so weird is, I mean, I remember, I think of your personality as from TV
and that it was that very kind of sarcastic, tell it like it is, like unmask the hypocrisy
of ordinary language, all that humor.
And I do find it unbelievable that they can cancel somebody when you've developed a whole persona And it's all like what you said, one tweet gone.
I mean, that is that's Soviet stuff.
Yeah, it is Soviet.
Oh, it was so Stalinist.
I couldn't believe it.
But it started like as a gauntlet from day one.
And I wasn't aware of the small steps until looking back, like you say, looking back, I was like, oh, and then at the end, it was like, oh, they only wanted me to come back.
Because I liked Trump and was, you know, noted for that.
They only wanted to bring me back to destroy me.
I think that's true.
And my friends who are white hat people, you know, confirm that.
And I was like, Oh my God.
And here I was like an idiot going, I think I could help unite Americans.
I could have a Hillary hater and a Trump hater in the same family.
But yet they still loved each other because I was so concerned with the division going on that the media was propelling, especially race division.
I just, I knew what they were doing, just setting these kids up for mass arrest and drafting.
I knew they were going to do that.
You know, all these kids, they're all going to go get drafted.
Antifa, BLM, they're either going to go to prison, get shot, or get drafted.
That's what's going to happen, but they're too stupid or brainwashed to even see that's what happens in a police state.
What, do they think they're going to start living in Beverly Hills under a communist regime?
They do!
They do think that, and the irony is that a police state will go after them, too, eventually.
It doesn't go after them now, and I explained this.
Because they're useful.
Exactly.
They're part of the constituency that's helping to build the police state.
But once the police state is built, it doesn't need them anymore.
Stalin killed a lot of communists and a lot of socialists, and so they won't be safe either.
They're safe now, and so they'll watch this film.
They'll be like, Dinesh, I don't have to worry about being banned on Facebook or being arrested.
And I'm like, yeah, but that's because you're helping to build the police state.
You're part of its constituency.
No less than the illegals coming across the border are.
Why do you think they're letting all those people in if not to provide the voting base?
To replace you.
Exactly.
To create a one party state.
They're all dipshits.
I get so damn sick of it.
I'm sick of it.
I don't know how What else we can do to wake people up, except for this film, I think is going to wake a lot of people up.
So I'm grateful for it and grateful for you and all your films.
Let's talk about your other one, 2,000 Mules.
Trump said down at Mar-a-Lago when I was there, he goes, you can't find that film anywhere.
So I went online to search and it's very, very difficult.
They censored that out of existence.
Yeah, it is a little hard to find.
However, about a month ago, maybe two months ago, I approached the Twitter people.
This is Elon Musk's team, not Elon himself.
And I'm like, you know what?
I need to counter this blockage of 2,000 mules.
I'm going to put it up on X for free.
Oh, smart.
And so the Twitter people, to their credit, were very helpful to us.
They said, okay, this is how you do it.
And so I released it.
I put it up on X for free from 3 million.
I mean, there were about 20 million people that had seen the film, but we got another 3 million on Twitter.
And so I put it up for free.
It wasn't permanent.
I put it up for like a week.
Yeah, I remember.
And it got a really good audience and I might do that again.
So there are ways to counter this sort of thing.
And at this point, our goal with 2000 Meals is just to keep the message out there.
Because, as you know, they are not going to hesitate to try some shenanigans in 2024.
They may not try the same ones, but they will definitely be looking for opportunities to cheat.
I have no doubt about that.
Hopefully the Trump people, hopefully the RNC, hopefully there are people who are on the lookout for that, and they're going to be able to thwart it.
But that the attempt will be made, I have no doubt.
Well, I think that there won't be a 2024 election.
But, you know, I'm thinking that, well, I won't go into that.
But I don't think there will be.
You think there'll be a declared emergency and then they will suspend the election?
Well, that's one thing that could happen.
She thinks, she's never come out and said, tell me if I'm wrong, you think they're going to catch the fraud from 2020 and overturn it and give the presidency to Trump?
I know, but that's what I think, because people don't realize that ABC and CBS and NBC and MSNBC and CNN and Fox, they're not the ones that do the actual count of the votes.
It's the military.
And Trump told us that, if anybody would ever listen to anything he says, which they don't.
But the military has all the proof, and Trump said it.
They have the watermark ballots, they've got all the proof of what was done, and it will come to light.
And I think it will come to light in his trial in March, if it goes that long.
I don't think it will.
I think it will be this year.
And they've already overturned one election of 2022 in Philadelphia, and the wheel is starting to roll.
And they're looking at another election of 2022, and the judge, it's at SCOTUS.
Democrat judge.
Did you see that yesterday?
It was a Democrat judge, but judge Um, why can't I remember his name?
Clarence Thomas?
Yeah, he's gonna be the deciding vote on the 2022.
The problem I have with this theory is... I have no doubt that Trump has everything.
He has... I mean, they went and got, you know, I don't know.
Everybody says I'm a cute tard.
I will tell you that, and I'm going to do a film next year for the election, but it's hard to do because we are in such uncharted water.
They're trying to put Trump in jail.
So imagine an election where the Republican candidate of a major party is in prison.
And running from prison.
It could happen.
Wow, it could happen.
I don't even know what the psychological impact that will have on America and the world.
Oh, everyone will love it.
You know, even, what's his name, some Democrat said the other day, don't put him in jail because he'll definitely win if you do.
It's probably true.
Wouldn't that be the best shelter?
He's been re-elected, he's elected, but he has to serve out his term first, so he's going to be making, for the first three months, he's going to be making all his decisions from incarceration.
Right.
But then he's just assumed, or whatever the word is, till he's sworn in.
But there's all this evidence that things are going to turn, and corruption is at an end, and America's going to save itself at the very last minute.
I mean, there's an old saying that God looks out for drunks and little children.
And the United States of America.
And I sort of do believe that.
I kind of do, too.
Yeah, I mean, I kind of believe that we'll come out okay in the end.
It's my natural temperament.
But it's not the mood of Police State.
I mean, the film is creepy.
That's what I want to say.
But that's what's so important about the movie, because here's the best thing that could happen.
A hundred million people see it, and they go, oh, hell, we've got to Wake up and tell everybody.
So 200, 300 million.
I don't know how many populations we have here.
360.
360.
And everybody's like, hell no.
And I mean, it has the potential to wake everybody up.
It speaks on a grassroots level.
It's not hoity-toity.
It's not overly religious.
It's not preaching to the choir.
It speaks to everybody.
And the hope is that everybody will see it and it will help wake people up.
It's in plain language.
It's in black and white.
It's all facts and things that have already happened.
People who have survived it all.
People who are there to tell their stories.
It's just a great American piece and long may it wave.
I'm really proud of you.
Well, thank you.
It's not a film I wanted to make.
Who wants to be in a situation where this kind of film needs to be made?
But it does.
That's true.
And I think you're right that there is a streak in the American character that wants to That isn't okay with this kind of oppression, that Americans are feistier than Canadians.
Yeah.
Or New Zealanders, for that matter.
Well, because we all have a Hillary hater and a Trump hater in our same family, like I was trying to show on TV.
And we all love each other.
I mean, some of us have stopped talking to each other and over the vaccine, too, in my own family.
But we still all love each other and if it gets worse and the bottom falls out, it's not going to matter to us who the other one voted for.
We're going to help each other.
No, absolutely.
Absolutely.
I think that's right.
The country has gone through a lot before.
It's not like we haven't been there before.
We obviously had a civil war.
But it's different now.
It's different now because of the convergence of media and big tech.
Let me just say this.
I watched your film last night.
It was scarier to me than Orwell than reading 1984 and you might have a positive
feeling like, oh, we're going to get together. I didn't sleep last night after watching. I woke
up probably more terrified than I've ever been. And I have to say your film is scarier than 1984,
mostly because it's real and we're here now.
But what happened to me this morning is I started thinking, uh, we might be too, pardon me for being
pessimistic, but we might be too far down that rabbit hole because even when you're making this
this movie now, we know that the other side's not going to want to watch it.
They're not going to be open to watching a Dinesh D'Souza film about the police state.
It's going to be another right-wing conspiracy theory, another Russia disinfer.
It's going to be another push for de-platforming.
and everything. Another hunter laptop. Yeah, but it's just going to be like, oh, these people,
like, they think the election was rigged. They think the police state, but you actually are
interviewing people that have had the FBI bang their door down, PTA members. And when you're
watching, you're like, it's here. It is here.
It's not coming.
It's here.
I'll tell you why I'm more positive than you, because I'm going to be 71 tomorrow and I'm going to die my way out of this thing.
I'm here with a two year old.
I can't.
I can't.
I don't want to be an internment camp.
That's why I'm more positive.
I'm not, I mean, the American spirit is the enemy of this push, whatever this is, this communist, this left-wing... They can't kill us, they can't.
They can.
No, because we, I believe, and know, because I've seen it, We're the Americans.
That means everything.
We're the Americans.
Hell, we... That's what I want to talk about.
We went... What was that?
Beach?
They knew they was going to get shot.
They knew they were giving their lives to storm that beach, and they did it.
They knew they were going to die, and they did it.
And we've done that.
We did it.
I mean, once you do that, you don't come back from that.
No matter how many other unjust wars they made them kids go through for money and oil.
But that day, that's something that takes over your DNA and it cannot be destroyed.
Because everybody can remember it and they can watch it on film.
It can't be destroyed.
It's still here.
I know it.
I'm praying for it.
I do believe prayer.
I always talk about it.
I pray to God he wakes some people up before they walk off the gank plank.
But think about this.
You talk about storming Normandy in World War II, which is true.
That is the American spirit.
We're all armed.
We're all outlaws.
We want to fight this oppressive system.
They use that in a perfect, which you cover in your film, in basically a cloaking maneuver.
In January 6, we were there saying, stop the steal.
We were a peaceful protest.
You know, Ray Epps is like, let's storm the Capitol.
They know that we want to fight.
They know that we're boiling over.
That's why the FBI is watching us.
That's why there is a police state forming.
However, Nancy Pelosi was just subpoenaed.
I know, but I'm saying they also know our moves and maneuvers, and they actually can walk us into traps.
They know we're angry, so we have to be.
It's not just like, oh, we're Americans, shoot guns.
We have to be much, much smarter because it is much scarier.
Well, we're organizing.
Your film is great because it is sequential.
It does do it.
I know that we can go, hey, A, B, C, D, E, and we can all talk about it now.
But half this country doesn't even consider what we're saying.
Well, that's right.
And they think we're crazy.
I think it's because the country is... Brainwashed?
Well, no.
It's a little bit like, you know, the Nature Channel where you see the antelope or the wildebeest and they're sort of grazing happily.
Yeah.
And there's a desire in human nature to believe that things can't really go horribly wrong.
So even though I say, hey guys, there's a predator in the trees, they're like, no, Dinesh,
it's just the wind.
Or he's going to jump, but he's not going to come on my back.
He's going to land on somebody else's back.
So there is a denialism.
Yeah, it could never happen to me.
Never happened here.
It never happened to me.
But I think as word gets out that it is happening, and that's what the film is powerful here,
It's happening now to more ordinary people.
And so they've got neighbors, they've got friends, they've got families, so the word is getting out.
And you're right, the other side is, they know that too.
And so they're amping up the tyrannical surveillance and all the other measures that they have.
You know, I'm doing a series on my podcast on Solzhenitsyn's Good Luck Archipelago.
And there's a scene in the opening pages where a woman is approached by a friend of hers in the marketplace and the friend says to her, Go to the train station, get out of town.
You're on a list.
They're going to come to get you.
And the woman goes, I can't go now.
I have to go pack.
So she goes back to her apartment.
Sure enough, they're waiting for her.
They arrest her.
She's never heard from again.
But then Solzhenitsyn comments this.
He says, it is too bad that she didn't go to this train station.
She could have disappeared in the vastness of Mother Russia, and they would never have found her.
But see, that's not true today.
Right.
Right.
Cell phone technology with surveillance.
Right.
That's what I'm getting at.
It shows you that we are in a different situation.
where our privacy is gone. Yes it is. And a police state can take advantage of
technology and make it a real instrument of tyranny. I mean Orwell was prophetic
about that. Not the details of it but the idea. 100%. So it's terrifying.
And we're willingly using these spying devices. I have one in my pocket now.
I mean we're being tracked.
I know people that are off the grid.
We sell satellite phones, but everyone has iPhones.
They're tracked.
Let me say one thing.
Of course.
It goes two ways.
All of that surveillance, all of that, no privacy.
It goes two ways.
You're saying it applies to them, too?
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, there's a digital footprint for oppression.
Yeah, I mean, in other words, what you're saying is we can track them in the end, and you can actually also hold them accountable.
That's what Trump said.
Trump comes in, he could unleash a full discovery of all the police tactics that have been going on, all the laws that are being broken right now, And you could have a festival of arrests.
I think the left, by the way, knows this also.
This is why they're even more desperate never to have him in because they're like, oh, shoot.
Yeah.
You know.
He's going to find out.
We're going to have to burn all these papers.
And these days you can't burn them because it still remains as a digital footprint of everything we're doing.
Yeah.
What do you think we can do?
Well, I think this is a war on many fronts.
Part of it is the presidency, which can fix a lot of things.
And the police state is bigger than the FBI.
People say, you're making a film on the FBI.
No, Department of Homeland Security is ten times bigger than the FBI.
That place needs to be renovated from top to bottom.
Controlling the executive branch allows you to do a lot of reforms.
But you still need a legislature to pass good laws.
And then you need the Supreme Court to shut down censorship.
And then you need... I'd like to see more activity at the state level on the part of AGs, attorneys general, secretaries of state, governors.
I mean, when we start doing the same to the left, I think it will send them a message.
We were talking a little bit earlier about how, you know, once you have these Harvard and Columbia Hamas advocates, and suddenly their names are on a list, and corporations are like, we're not going to hire those guys.
They start screaming, free speech!
You know, they discover the virtues of free speech when their free speech is being threatened.
Right.
And similarly, I think if you took, if a Republican attorney general right now in Texas, let's say, were to indict Mayorkas, I'll call him right now.
We know, Ken.
Yeah, it is.
I think he will.
Yeah, do it because because it's going on.
They know about it.
They're ignoring it because they don't care.
And it is a crime.
And so I'm not even saying fabricate a case.
I'm saying there is a legitimate case to make.
Republicans don't think like this.
Republicans are like, well, that's that's never been done before.
So I'm going to do it.
Or we're too principled to do to the other side what they're doing to us.
Or we're better than that.
Oh, come on.
They're just putting the money in the pocket.
That is so apparent that there's no two parties.
It's the Uniparty and they're all making bank on selling us out.
Am I right?
I think there's a lot of truth to that.
I mean, I do think there are some good guys around.
Oh, I do too.
But I think that the swamp does run pretty deep.
But what about, like, when you say state government, let's get even more specific because it is about local government.
Decent humans have to run for these local offices.
And it should not take, I think they should get money out of politics right away.
And only somebody with a decent resume, and I'm saying that the resume should say like this, I've lived in this community for 25 years, I've helped this many people, I've done this many good deeds, and these people know me.
So that's my qualifications and my resume to run for office, right?
Right.
Start from the get-go.
This is what the ordinary guy can do.
Run for school board, get involved in local elections, become... My wife Debbie was a poll observer, poll judge.
You know what?
It's a volunteer thing.
If you have the time, go do it.
Keep an eye on the process.
That's going to be a nice check against election fraud.
And so there are things that can be done institutionally and then there are things that can be done on the individual level.
Yeah, but the people have to do it, not sit on their ass waiting for Trump or anybody else.
We have to do it ourselves and people don't like to hear that.
But you know, if you've got extra time to sit there on your phone being tracked, take that time and do something useful for your community, right?
Yeah, I also think that, and for me this has been, I think, a boost in doing the stuff I do, and that is take the whole thing with a grain of salt and make it fun.
In other words, if you think of politics as something that's like a major drag, then, and even people come to me, Dinesh, you're so brave, you're, I'm like, actually to me the whole thing's fun.
These people are crazy.
I like driving them nuts.
And the more they get discombobulated, the more to me it's a measure of how effective I am.
I'm like, yeah, you're shaking.
That's a really good sign.
You know, I'm obviously getting to you.
So how can I get you to shake some more?
I've seen you on college campuses giving speeches and just triggering people.
It is fun to watch.
You are very good at it.
Well, I listen to them.
What's that fire?
Does that all come from your... That seems like it's bone deep, like that does come from colonial India.
I don't really know.
I think it does go back to my college days.
And I do like that kind of give and take, particularly on the campus.
I don't speak on campuses that much these days because after COVID, it's been kind of hard to get on the campus.
And so I don't do that much anymore.
But I do enjoy talking to young people about their ideas.
And I do appreciate their idealism, even if they're on the left.
But what I do find amusing is that you've got some guy who's like, you know, 20 years old, knows nothing about life, hasn't really read that many books, but they're completely confident that they know more than you do.
Yeah, I know.
That's their starting point.
Mr. DeSouza, has it occurred to you?
I'm like, yes, this has occurred to me.
In fact, this is what I heard yesterday.
Do you remember being like that when you were 20, though?
I guess so.
I guess that is right.
Oh boy, you thought you had it all figured out when you were 20.
I did.
I really thought I knew it all.
And then it's like the big beat down.
Hey, it's nothing like I thought.
At all.
Well, because then you start working, going out in the real world, and it shifts you.
That's why they say people get more conservative as they get older, because they have to start paying taxes and taking care of family, and it's like, oh, that idealism I had at 7-18, it's not really that black and white.
Yeah, well, you're around other idealists, and it is the time to think, but you think they would be trained to think with the right kind of thinking machinery, rather than
closing down their neural pathways and repeat and parroting bullshit narratives, they'd
actually be able to apply, you know, critical thinking skills.
Yeah.
How do I use this idealism to work in the real world?
How do I adjust so that I can actually impact change?
What they're doing is like, how do I find other people that will listen to my bullshit
and we'll all sit around and sniff each other's farts for 45 minutes?
And then we'll beat people up that don't listen to us.
That's where they should be like, let's go out in the real world and let's let's make
it.
Let's go out in the real world and run for school board.
There's very little, I think, today, critical thinking being taught in colleges.
None.
And here's the proof of it.
If you were to take a very good college, take the best students, and just start them like this.
Say, alright, you think, and you've been taught, that America's a racist society.
Give me five reasons against that.
That undercut.
Can you think of five reasons that undermine that idea?
They'll be like, what do you mean, Dinesh?
What are you saying?
I'm like, you're supposed to be a critical thinker.
Anticipate what are the objections.
Now, you may think you can answer those objections, but let's hear them.
What are five objections to the idea that America is a racist society?
And I bet you a typical student would be like, I don't know what to say.
I don't know what to say.
It's because their mind is so fried and benumbed that they are incapable of even Envisioning objections to their point of view and that shows that our colleges are doing a horrible job Well, look who they get for professors.
I mean, where do they get those clowns the most part?
I mean, of course, there's good ones Yeah, but a lot of them are they started their censorship was on campus anybody who was teaching anything?
That wasn't fake.
Mm-hmm Absolutely.
I noticed something interesting happening even in the 90s and early 2000s.
I was doing a lot of debates on campus and I noticed that professors on the left would refuse to debate me.
And I thought, well, that's odd.
I mean, I'm a smart guy.
I don't have a PhD.
You know your field.
We're talking about a subject on which you are supposed to be an expert.
Right.
And so the fact that you're unwilling to engage in public discussion tells me that something is really off here.
And I think it's that these guys at some level knew that what they're doing is propaganda.
And they just couldn't, and the same is true in the media.
I mean, in my early career, I was on CNN all the time.
I was on with Don Lemon.
I was on Crossfire all the time.
And then suddenly, the lights went out.
It's like, if we have a CNN panel, it's gonna be 17 people who all think the same.
I concur with what this guy said I concur also and it's like what kind of discussion is this?
I can't even hear a different point of view and So we're that all of these are just the signs that the state of our intellectual culture is pathological.
Yes Yes, I always say that two things that Stalinist and fascist hate is one, humor, and two, discussion.
Yeah.
You know, that's a very profound point.
Humor is lethal to the police state.
And that's why one of the things that they've done pretty successfully, not entirely, but pretty successfully, is sort of shut down comedy.
And in other words, put comedy into a lane where the comedians Just are too terrified to go.
They're self-editing.
Yeah.
Self-editing.
Self-censoring.
That's right.
Cause I mean, just think of, I mean, look at Biden, look at Hunter Biden.
I mean, look at the targets of opportunity.
I know!
Kamala?
Are you kidding me?
Exactly.
The whole operation, but the comedians won't go there because they know that that's like sacrosanct.
Right.
They'll get blackballed.
They get blackballed.
When I was doing the reboot of my show, um, and it was about a Hillary hater living with a Trump hater, right?
And, uh, hates, well, they were, yeah, they were haters.
But anyway, so, um, uh, I would sit there all day waiting for one Hillary joke and they'd come down with 17 or 18 more Trump jokes.
And I would say, yeah, you already give me 50 Trump jokes.
I can't just do Trump jokes.
I need a Hillary joke.
And they'd come back and they'd go, yeah, but these jokes are great.
You've got to admit.
I go, I admit, they're all great, but I need a Hillary joke.
And they pushed it till the day before taping.
And the head writer came down and he gets me off in the side and he goes, Like we're, you know, in Russia.
Like, oh wow, he drops his voice.
He goes, I don't give a fuck about any of this shit.
But, you know, I can't put it on paper.
Or whatever horse shit he said.
And I said to him, do you want me to write it?
Because that was always the threat to him.
I'll write it then.
They were like, oh no.
So, they came down with a Hiller joke.
It was really lame, but It was a Hillary joke with 75%.
But that was the mindset.
It was like, we dare not.
Yeah.
Writing comedy.
Yeah.
Can't write a joke.
I mean, I find myself gravitating to comedians that are in whatever way taking on this established orthodoxy.
And sometimes not even in ways I approve.
I mean, in other words, I'll listen to Louis C.K.
and I'm like, I don't really like you.
I don't really like your sense of humor.
But you know what?
I find that you are trying to be a battering ram against some things that are worse.
And so I'm glad you're trying to smash the door in because it does need to be done.
There's a lot of great comics now, um, getting braver and braver because, you know, um, oppression makes you funnier.
So, you know, I see it all the time and it's great.
A lot of great, uh, oh, I can't remember his name, but he's a big fat comic.
He's a black guy, but he talks about Trump where he says the greatest stuff about Trump and everyone loves it.
And it's not like, I don't think any white person could say that stuff about Trump.
Really?
I'll have to check this guy out.
No, he's so great.
I know who you're talking about.
We'll look it up.
I can't remember anyone's name, but he goes, he's like talking about how Trump is so OG, you know?
He's like, he's the only one at the, well, I won't say any of his jokes, I'll mess him up.
Damn!
I gotta insert it in the description.
Yeah, we will.
But a lot of that stuff isn't, they don't tape, because they take your cell phones at Rogan's Club.
And a lot of, that's how comedians are starting to get brave, is because people aren't filming them.
Oh, that's interesting.
So they can't then use it against you.
Right.
But they are getting real, when you're there, because she goes to the mothership in Texas all the time.
They're edgy.
Like, I thought comedy was dead.
When you're in these clubs, it's back, bigger than ever.
It's just, they're not allowed to film or disperse or share.
Yeah, that's how it keeps it safe because they can't, which is like a speakeasy.
It's, or whatever the word is, it's, yeah, they can't, you know, build their career on destroying you for a joke.
Yeah.
And the jokes are Hardcore.
Hardcore.
And they are making fun of Biden and Kamala and all of them.
Mostly what they're doing.
You should come down there.
Well, you are in Texas.
I'm in Texas.
I would enjoy it.
Let us know when you want to come down and I'll take you and we'll go on a real good night.
That'd be really fun.
Absolutely.
Well, my wife knows that I've, you know, I sometimes joke that I like to do myself a combination of, because I do a little bit of humor in my speeches.
It's integrated into political content and cultural content, but no, that atmosphere appeals to me.
Yeah, and it's like real multicultural too.
even have some, I mean, they have some Palestinian comics.
It is.
I watch them like a hawk.
But I have to admit, they're funnier than hell.
It's a great time for comedy, great time for- Podcasts?
Thinking, great time for podcasts, great time for film.
It is, no, absolutely.
And I think that our side, if I may use the term loose,
is waking up to the importance of all these things.
Because typically guys who have money on our side are used to putting money into elections.
Right.
They're not used to funding comedy.
And part of my point is, find some young people who want to start a comedy channel and encourage them.
Right, exactly.
It's as much a culture war as anything.
Let's start creating some great stuff on our side, putting it out into the market.
Like, Public Square is sponsoring me to do a Twitter show, you know, once a month.
And they're also building a whole company for people who are, kind of, have our point, what do you call it?
It's a marketplace of companies with our values.
Yeah, and it's gonna rival Amazon.
I mean, we can't sell our DVDs at Walmart or Amazon.
Now, in the old Walmart, which was run at Bentonville, Arkansas, there was a conservative management, but not anymore.
Walmart has kind of just gone generic corporate.
And I'm thinking to myself, well, this is not a banned topic, police state.
And there's been not a single fact check that claims that one iota of this film is incorrect, nor can there be.
And so why won't you let us sell our DVDs?
But they're like, because we can.
You know, we can ban you, and so we're going to, and so we have to find and create an alternative.
Yeah, it's a great opportunity for some young entrepreneur to put something together such as a Facebook or something that'll grow over time and have millions of jobs for Americans.
Absolutely.
These are great opportunity, times of opportunity if people just switch their negative into a positive and started being Americans again.
That's a good point.
Yeah, we have to stop just being critics and begin to create stuff.
Absolutely.
I think in the end we're going to have to create our own universities.
Yes, we are.
We're going to have to create our own, really our own America inside of America.
It's kind of a startling idea.
That's what I've been thinking.
The New Republic, they're calling it.
Texas.
It is the New American Republic.
No, it really is.
I mean, we have to have like an island within.
Yeah, because I mean, there are people with a Texas spirit who live in New York.
Yeah, right.
So it's tapping all the people who don't want to be part of the police state.
And that's, I think, Americans.
Clear majority of Americans.
They're called sane Americans.
Americans, that's what I meant.
Still have an American spirit, which is the desire for constant improvement.
Yeah.
That's what America is about.
The desire to constantly improve, constantly learn, constantly reach out and make things better for everybody.
Not that shit they say it is.
That's bye-bye.
I agree.
We're gonna win.
I think so too.
I think we are the enemy of the enemy.
I think our movement is what they fear most.
It's not just individuals and Americans.
It's armed Americans, something you touch brilliantly on in your film.
It's been a hard recognition for me because I come from a country where people don't have guns.
the most important thing right now and I'm so glad that your film touches on that because
if we give up our guns that's it game over. It's been a hard recognition for me because I come from
a country where people don't have guns you know and so initially I thought well you know gun rights
are important because if someone breaks into your home right it's going to be a while before the
cops get there so kind of nice to have a gun.
But when I read the founders, they're talking about tyranny, and I thought to myself, well, at that point it was hard for me to see it.
But now it's very apparent that the primary reason to have guns Is as the ultimate safeguard of your liberties.
Yes.
And the secondary reason to have guns is for some bad guys who want to come steal your stuff.
Yeah.
So I myself been kind of dragged into a, I think a better understanding of the true logic of the second amendment.
Yeah.
Well, the constitutionalists say that we have a second amendment to protect the first amendment.
Yes.
That's a beautiful way to put it.
Absolutely.
Right.
Yeah.
It's all, you know, we just, we, we just have to piece things back together from the, The compartmentalization they have forced upon us, and that's what I like most about this film, is that it takes away the blinders and gives us the big picture.
What's your next movie gonna be?
Well, before I say that, I should mention, partly because of this Walmart stuff, that to get DVDs or to watch this film, go to PoliceStateFilm.net.
That's the website.
There's a bunch of different platforms, including Rumble, the video platform.
Salem, Salem Now, Epoch TV, different platforms to buy and stream it, and then you can get DVDs also from Salem or Shopify, but the one-stop shop is PoliceStateFilm.net.
We've partnered with Salem Media to do a film next year, topic to be determined, because it's so difficult to call, you know, six months ahead or nine months ahead, what is going to be the focus of the election year.
It's so tricky.
So I'm trying to anticipate what that film should be about and looking for ideas.
Cool.
Yeah, we'll send them your way because we have tons.
I got a ton of ideas.
All right.
I'm willing to listen.
I want to hear him.
The Trump Q stuff, where he gets back in the White House.
He thinks me and 25 million Americans are out of our way.
I don't think you're out of your way.
I think you guys are about 95% there.
I think there's just the part where you just have to kind of go, well, we'll see.
But you guys are so convinced.
I do say, but we'll see.
That's all I need.
But we'll see.
Yeah, I hope you're right.
I would like to thank you for being here today.
It was wonderful to spend time with you and speak to you, and wonderful to watch your film last night, too, as well as to meet your wife and your stepdaughter.
Well, I'm delighted you enjoyed the film.
I don't know if enjoy is the right word.
It's a creepy movie, but I wanted to make it a truth-telling movie, and I'm glad it's resonated in that way.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
More than so many I've seen for so many years.
Documentaries are fantastic.
Fantastic art form.
I have to agree.
We've been arguing for years, my mother and I, on the podcast.
When people are like, well, what's your source?
And you have to tell them, oh, you've got to go here, you've got to go there, you've got to go there.
And as you're doing it, you're like, no one's ever going to do it.
And then also, I can't remember everything.
There's too much bullshit out there.
But I can now cite your film.
Just go watch Police State and call me in an hour and a half, and then we'll talk.
And for that, thank you.
Because that's what we need.
Well, it's made in a way that if somebody is not political, or even on the left, I think the film will unnerve them.
Because I think they will see that here are ordinary Americans talking about their life, and there are a lot of whistleblowers and informants in the movie, and they're like, this is how the police state is constructed, and we know because we were part of it.
Yeah.
So in that sense, it discloses the operations of the police state, I think, in a way that will be eye-opening to people.
Why doesn't the left remember Julian Assange?
They never do, do they?
Who's rotting away in a jail cell because he exposed, again, things that happened under the Obama administration.
But they just completely whitewash everything.
They disappear it, including a lot of facts about Obama.
It's just gone off the internet.
Why don't they wonder, at least, why that is?
Why don't they wonder about Julian Assange?
Why don't they wonder about why we can't find so many facts about Obama and Why he says he had no corruption in his term as president.
Why is that gone?
Why did they not wonder?
They don't wonder.
Orwell is right about this and we've seen it in the Soviet Union and so on.
A full-fledged police state, they will go back and they will rewrite Shakespeare.
They will rewrite every book in the library.
They will make it so that For new generations, there is no memory.
It's a very scary idea.
And in some ways, it's a strange idea because you think, well, a police state is trying to build the future.
They don't care about the past.
But no, they do.
They care about the past as much as they do about the present and about the future.
They will ultimately try to remake the past.
I think this is actually partly why they were, I don't know if you saw this thing, they were like, we've taken the Robert E. Lee monument and melted it down.
And I'm like, this is not just about Robert E. Lee.
No.
This is ultimately about extinguishing historical memory.
And that's a very scary thing that you people are doing.
It's part of their playbook.
Yeah.
And it's part of your, it's part of your sick, demented playbook.
Yeah.
Because they were for slavery and they got to get rid of that.
That's right.
In fact, you're right.
All those Confederate generals were all major Democrats.
Yeah, they got to get rid of that, of course.
That's for sure.
They have to get rid of real history of who they are and what they're doing.
It's just horrifying, but that's what the Nazis do.
I don't see much difference when I see them being pro-Hamas.
That's going to split their party, though.
So I kind of applaud it.
Maybe that will wake the Jewish Democrats up and they'll leave.
I hope so. I hope so. I mean, making police data has helped me understand a little better,
even how that stuff in Germany went down. Because you're thinking, how does a society that was by
and large a Western society, a pretty enlightened society, a
I mean, in the forefront of science and technology and opera and art, the greatest philosophers in the 19th century were all Germans.
I mean, Kant, Schopenhauer, Hegel, Nietzsche.
And so how did this immensely civilized society succumb to barbarism?
It started with false science on the campus because they introduced Nazi science, which was craniology, head shapes, and eugenicists.
Which is exactly what those teachers are teaching, too.
When they teach racial theory, that's nothing but eugenicism.
It is.
It's nothing but that.
And it has the same bad guy, a Jew.
It all is that.
It's all Nazi stuff.
Well, why wouldn't it be when we brought the Nazis here after World War II in Operation Paperclip and made them head of our space program, our medical, you know, so many things.
And we never look at that either because that's been wiped away.
All of the scandals in the Obama administration, not one of them has been looked at, including the corruption of the FISA courts.
None of that.
Spying on a sitting president.
None of that has even been looked at.
That's wiped away.
And I just realized who said that about, if you lock Trump up, he's going to win.
It was Eric Holder.
Oh, interesting.
Wow.
That's right.
I think I saw that clip on social media where he's like, don't put him in prison.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That was Eric Holder.
A note of caution from Eric Holder, of all people.
Wow.
Fascinating.
So, well, this has been great.
Thank you guys for having me.
It's been very enjoyable and we've covered a lot of ground.
We did cover a lot of ground, like your movie does, doesn't it?
Yes, it does.
Once again, I thank you so much for being here.
My pleasure.
And for your artistic integrity.
Thank you very much.
You're very welcome.
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