Tamara Lich, a Métis grandmother and Freedom Convoy organizer jailed 49 days for minor charges, testified about her peaceful protest against COVID mandates, citing family trauma—suicides, elderly deaths in isolation—and children thanking her for "giving me back my future." She rejected radicalism, contrasting her pragmatic approach with Trudeau’s divisive rhetoric and the Emergencies Act’s misuse. Meanwhile, Ben Dictor’s hostile testimony and ties to RT fueled perceptions of convoy fragmentation, while Keith Wilson’s legal requests exposed financial accountability gaps. Justice Rollo’s fairness stood out amid government attempts to discredit organizers through irrelevant conspiracy questions. Lich’s ordeal underscores how dissent is criminalized under Trudeau’s "denormalization" agenda, eroding free speech despite claims of protecting it. [Automatically generated summary]
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Oh, good afternoon.
Good evening, everybody.
And welcome to the Rebel News Daily Live Stream, something we're calling Breakdown, wherein we analyze the day's testimony heard at the Public Order Emergency Commission, what we're calling the Trucker Commission here at Rebel News.
You can find all of our coverage and support, our independent journalism at truckercommission.com and.ca.
I'm joined tonight by my co-host, who's normally based in Calgary, but she has flown out to Ottawa.
She's in the Airbnb satellite studio, as we call it, Celine Gallas.
Celine, how is it going?
Today was your first full day covering the Trucker Commission.
What did you think?
It was a lot.
There was a lot.
There were so many testimonies and so many periods of cross-examination.
It was very, very, very interesting.
I know right now we just had the first half of Tamara Leach's testimony that will resume tomorrow morning.
But prior to that, listening to James, his last name is escaping me right now due to the Normady Bowder.
Yes, exactly.
His in particular was very like Tamara Leach.
He was.
Yeah, he wears his heart on his sleeve.
He's very passionate.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And then prior to that was Ben Dictor.
We'll get into all the nitty-gritty, but we've got some housekeeping stuff to clean up.
And I see that Efron has made a tidy little list, so I should respect that.
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And we should also tell everybody about Rebel News Live.
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We've got Dr. Julie Panessi coming.
Why She Turned Herself In00:08:25
And I don't want to say that I have a favorite guest because it's a competition between Chad Williamson and Tamara Leach, who is testifying today.
And she will be at both Rebel News Live events.
For tickets and times, please go to rebelnewslive.com.
And frankly, I can't wait to see you there.
And every day that I look at that list, my favorites change because the other day it was Ben Bankas.
So I guess it depends on my mood.
But there's something there for everybody.
Now, moving on to the testimony today, I think we should start with, I think, who everybody has been waiting for.
And that's Tamara Leach.
And she is the diminutive, and I cannot use that word strongly enough, tiny little Metis grandma from southern Alberta, who is a lead convoy organizer.
And she spent 49 days in jail for relatively minor, actually, not relatively minor, absolutely minor mischief charges, stuff that she would never see the inside of a jail cell if she were convicted of everything.
But she was held at the hands of a vindictive and out-of-control prosecutor.
And she was politically persecuted.
They needed to make somebody pay for the inconvenience and traffic snarl happening in downtown Ottawa when thousands of truckers and their supporters converged on the city to protest COVID-19 mandates and lockdowns.
And they made her pay.
She was basically a political prisoner.
They didn't want to let her go.
I mean, the testimony today, if anybody who was ever on the fence about Tamara, I think even if you hated the convoy, you have to look at that woman and say she's no terrorist.
She's no criminal.
She shouldn't have spent a day in jail.
I absolutely agree with that.
100%.
It was tough.
It was tough because I met her in Ottawa when we were there in the first couple of days before we went back to cover Coots.
And that was my impression of her then.
And that is my impression of her now more than ever.
Her testimony, the beginning of it, I think the media room that I was in covering live tweeting all day today, it went silent for maybe the first time today.
It was so her testimony.
Yeah.
So while others were being slandered for their emotional outbursts today in the media room, Tamara Leach was not one of them because it had me on the edge of my seat paying attention closer than ever all day today.
It was just Tamara Leach's testimony.
You know, she, I've met her a few times.
We talk back and forth now and then.
And she's thoughtful.
She's calm.
And, you know, the first time I saw her get emotional, I think it was on a Facebook Live or she was just calling for peace and for calm.
But she doesn't have a vindictive bone in her body.
I would be so bitter and so angry and so full of righteous indignation and quite possibly vengeance.
She doesn't have any of that.
And, you know, there are a lot of people out there who are saying she's seditious.
She's treasonous.
She's a terrorist.
She's like four foot 10.
Like she's just tiny and calm.
And in spite of everything that was done to her, she isn't angry.
In fact, one of the things that I found very compelling was even when she realized that it would be best if she turned herself in instead of being like Pastor Archer in a high-profile El Chapo-style takedown on the street.
One of the reasons that she turned herself in was because she didn't want her family and the people around her to see her taken into custody.
You know, and I thought even right at the end, turning herself in, knowing that they're probably going to make an example of her.
And she's absolutely right.
She thought, I don't want anybody's wife to see this.
I don't want anybody's husband to see what they're about to do to me.
And she recounted going and looking for the police so that she and I think that's Chris Barber went out looking to turn themselves in.
They went, they warmed up and then they got in their car and they went looking for the cops.
And I thought, you know, some terrorist, some public enemy number one, that she didn't even want to inconvenience the people around her as she turned herself in for the long haul.
Yeah, no, I was just watching that little clip that was put up on the screen.
I can't imagine being in her shoes and having to think from a perspective of how is my family going to deal with this?
How is my husband beside me going to deal with this if I'm arrested?
If there's a potentiality for him to be arrested, the guilty by association narrative, I would be distraught.
So the fact that she could gather her thoughts enough and her emotions to put herself in an even more vulnerable and exposed position by seeking the police that had been brutal towards the convoy at that time is definitely does not sound like a terrorist to me, Sheila.
Yeah.
Let's throw, I think it's the last clip in the Slack thread put there by Efron Olivia.
It doesn't have a number, so I can't call to the number, but it is Tamara Leach remembering the night after the Emergencies Act was invoked.
So she knows now she's public enemy number one.
And like a good terrorist, she went and found the cops to turn herself in.
Can you tell the commission what it was like to be arrested?
Well, it was, again, kind of ironic because I went down to the war memorial that day to attend the service that the vets there every day.
I spent my afternoon walking the streets with a veteran and my husband and Miranda, one of the road captains, just talking to people.
And I was aware the night before, I'm sure you saw the video, that it was most likely coming or that there was a chance that I could be arrested.
And we went back to the hotel and within 15 minutes, everybody's phones started blowing up and that Mr. Barber had been arrested.
Mr. Bulford and I were at the Swiss Hotel with Mr. Skubik and Mr. Tyson and we discussed what we should do, what our next step should be.
And we were concerned that if they were starting to arrest the organizers, that they would come to the hotel.
And my husband was there.
And Mr. Bulford's wife was there.
And obviously, that was the last thing that I would ever want my husband to see was, to me, be arrested.
We definitely didn't want that sort of activity occurring at the hotel with a woman who had been so kind to us.
Actually, who was about to lose her business until we showed up.
But like I said in my video, I wasn't afraid.
I believe and still believe that we did an excellent job remaining peaceful, advocating for the police.
Saskatchewan's Peaceful Protester00:08:51
Further to that testimony, she talks about going out onto the street and actively looking for a police officer so that she could turn herself in.
And she tried to turn herself in once and it was unsuccessful.
And then they came back and picked her up.
Quite a seditionist criminal, we all saw there.
I hope there's a lot of people who are realizing just how absolutely ridiculous they were every time they said something cruel or unkind about this woman.
She had just had enough.
In fact, she said, because she used to be involved in the Maverick Party, which is, I don't want to call it a Western separatist party, but a Western independence party, whatever that might look like.
And she said that going to Ottawa on the convoy changed her heart about Canada.
That she wanted to fight for Canada instead of build up a firewall like people like me in Alberta want to do.
She said she's learning French now because she sees this as a unifying thing, even in spite of her arrest and in spite of the fact that she's being called names by our prime minister.
She feels herself to be more of a patriot than a Western separatist.
It's really hard.
It's just very hard to imagine that so many people would have such a false narrative about this woman.
And the fact that it's ongoing, like there's, for instance, a great instance, actually, there has been a singular protester outside of where these proceedings are being held.
She got there literally seconds before William and I did, actually.
And she was there when I left to come back here.
And she yelled and screamed and said that everybody who passed her was a terrorist, a sexist, and a misogynist.
And when Tamara Leach came out earlier to just take a little breather, I'm sure.
Just go.
She didn't even go and talk to anybody in particular.
She just, she just kind of took her space.
That woman immediately started screaming in her direction, calling her a terrorist, calling her a racist.
It was enough.
So you can tell people like that, despite the fact that there's so much effort going into destroying the image of someone like Tamara Leach.
Like there's just, there's no point.
There's no point.
Why?
Why?
I don't understand it.
It just, if someone is going to say that she's dangerous and that she's a terrorist and there's people out there that will just yell and scream at the top of their lungs for hours on end, she did not leave once.
I think that's a lot worse than anything that I think Tamara could be called.
I mean, it's right there.
It's right in the open.
You know, I suggested to William to go ask that lady what makes her protest valid, but not the truckers.
The scale, I guess, the support.
Um, if she's allowed to protest and scream and yell and speak her mind on a street corner, so is everybody else.
Just so happens, the truckers are a little bit better at it than that wild-eyed lunatic on too much CBC.
You know, there's a reason why there are people who come and abduct cult members out of a cult and take them out of it and isolate them.
Uh, and I think if that woman were in a cult, and she just might be, she would be one of those people that you would need to abduct out of it, and they would be angry at the abductor for a long time until the deprogramming comes out.
She's one of those people because everything she knows, none of it matters because she has this belief system that the truckers are racist, misogynist, sexist, homophobic, whatever.
And her cult leader, Justin Trudeau, told her, so it's okay.
No, the cognitive dissonance does go so far that it's like individuals that present the same uniting front as her.
It's like they're having like it doesn't compete, like they just literally break down.
Yeah.
So I went up and I asked her what her definition of a terrorist was.
And she just yelled and screamed over me and didn't acknowledge my presence, except for when I was leaving to go and have lunch like a normal person.
And that was it.
That was about the interaction.
It was great.
Yeah.
I actually have a great deal of pity for that woman, but I'm reliably informed by the busy bodies in Ottawa that they don't like disruption on their streets.
So someone should go and seize that crazy person's bank account.
Let's go to clip two.
I think this is Tamara Leach explaining the impetus for her involvement in the convoy because it was deeply personal for her.
It wasn't just, you know, I want to tag along with this movement.
We heard some of that over the last couple of days.
People who just wanted to make a name for themselves.
That wasn't her impetus at all.
It was very personal, had to do with her family, and she just didn't know what else to do.
Yeah.
Because I was seeing families torn apart.
The suicides in my hometown were so numerous that they stopped reporting them.
Elderly people were dying by themselves in long-term care facilities and saying goodbye over iPads.
My grandma is 94 years old and she was locked in her little apartment by herself for two years.
My father is a very social man.
He is the coffee row Saskatchewan father.
And I remember him telling me one day that he went down to the local restaurant that he went to every single day.
And these are small towns where everybody knows everybody and he was asked to leave.
And I didn't want my children and my grandchildren to live in a world like that.
Terrorism.
It's hard, right?
Yeah.
It's hard to capture a moment like that when it's so raw and the reality of it is so unshakable.
You know, she's talking and she's going over those things.
And I'm sitting there recollecting all the ways that I saw people treated in the same manner, that my family, that myself, my friends were treated in the same manner.
Yeah, I know it.
My mom died alone in a hospital room because they could only let one of us in and it wasn't me.
My brother was there first.
My kids were not able to go to her funeral because of the stupid restrictions on our Catholic Church that seats 800, but we could only have 10 people for her funeral mass.
We had to draw lots to see who could be in that enormous church where my kids were baptized, where my family was married, where every important thing that ever happened in our life, we couldn't be a part of saying goodbye to my mom.
So I understand why Tamara got mad enough to go.
She didn't want this world for her kids or her grandkids or her parents or her grandparents.
She did something when all of us, well, not all of us, but a lot of people just stood around and complained.
She actually did something.
And actually, that should bring me to clip one because Tamara, she talks about how she wasn't even sure that she would achieve anything.
She wasn't even sure that they would even get to Odd One after I listened to some testimony of some of the other convoy involved people.
I'm like, yeah, it was kind of a miracle.
You people got there with your like angry feuding factions of the convoy.
But she wasn't sure.
But again, instead of just complaining, she actually did something.
And I think as the convoy rolled through the country, you could see the mandates were falling.
Saskatchewan convoy hit Saskatchewan.
Saskatchewan's like, no, we don't have a vaccine passport anymore.
Don't convoy me, bro.
Exactly.
So, you know, it was quite effective.
Let's go to clip one.
Thanks.
How did you get involved in the Freedom Convoy?
Canadians Divided: The Convoy's Impact00:14:57
A friend of mine sent me Mr. Barber's TikTok video where he was calling for a shutdown on the 23rd of January.
She sent me that video and I watched it and I texted her back right away and I said, well, what do you think about possibly another convoy to Ottawa?
And she kind of laughed and said, well, you know, it didn't really accomplish much.
I mean, it was great to see the crowds come together, but just slow down a bit, please.
Yes, sir.
And then I'd reached out to another friend and I asked him the same thing.
And we just sort of came to the same conclusion that we weren't sure if that was an idea that would be successful.
A friend of mine or an acquaintance of mine from Red Deer that was involved in the United Reroll gave me Mr. Barber's phone number and I contacted him on January the 13th and we discussed, I can't really remember the details of the conversation.
I do remember that I said I'm here to help you in any way I can.
My background is logistics and organization and administration and you are going to need social media and you're going to need some funding and if I can help you at all I'd be happy to do that.
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I changed my mind.
Maybe my favorite speaker is going to be David Menzies, as long as he leaves the fake boobs in the box.
Hi, William.
How's it going?
I know it's been a very long day for you covering the Trucker Commission.
What did you think about Tamara Leach's testimony today?
I thought it was heartfelt.
I thought that the commission lawyer, because that's who she's examined by, she starts cross-examination, I think, tomorrow.
What did you think about how the commission lawyer approached her?
We saw commission lawyers be pretty testy with the likes of James Bowder, but I think he was very like, I think you realize you can't push a tiny woman and save face like that.
Yeah, no, for sure.
Well, first of all, good evening, Sheila.
Good evening, Celine.
It's nice to see you guys.
I still, you know, I just came back from the commission.
I still have my accreditation badge on.
Definitely a very emotional testimony by Tamara Leach.
I was in the room while she was giving her testimony.
Me and Kien, we left the media room and went to the public room to see her in person.
And yeah, the crowd was definitely emotional.
It was emotional to hear everything that she went through simply for freedom.
Her daughter, she didn't want her daughter to be associated with her.
Imagine, I know that you're a mother.
Imagine how it must feel to not want your daughter to be associated with you, to be afraid.
I have teenagers.
They don't want anything to do with me.
I got teenagers.
They don't really want anything to do with me.
I don't like giving to you.
To see your daughter, you know, to be afraid for your daughter, to be afraid for yourself.
Hearing her talk about the way she was arrested in Ottawa by the police.
It was such an emotional, an emotional moment.
It must have been really hard for her to give all that recollection.
I think that we saw that she started crying on the stands.
I think it was a good testimony, but I think it was a heartfelt, deepfelt one.
And not only that, I did recall.
Sorry, can we just, I just want to point something out.
Do you see how tiny she is?
Keith Wilson's an average sized guy.
Maybe he's like six feet tall.
Look how small she is.
Yeah.
She's not even up to his shoulder.
Eva Chipyak and I are probably the same size.
Look how tiny Tamara is.
She's the woman that scared Justin Trudeau so much that he hit the nuclear button of the terrorism law, the Emergencies Act.
What a delicate, fragile, fragile man Justin Trudeau is.
Yeah, no, 100%.
And I mean, everything was peaceful.
We keep seeing that for the past weeks.
The whole Freedom Conway was peaceful.
Not once was the right act invoked, which means I wasn't in legal protests.
We keep seeing recollection from the police, from the OPP, from everyone saying that it was a peaceful protest, not a single actual act of violence being presented in front of the commission.
We said it was peaceful, and Justin Trudeau still decided to invoke the emergency act and to get that grandmother from Alberta arrested because she dared to defy his authoritarian leadership.
Go ahead, Celine.
I'm sure you have something to say.
No, I just, I honestly just want to laugh a little bit because, yeah, he must be very afraid of five, four grandmas that go and want to help people and bring people together in the name of unity and peace and love and be able to provide to these people by being responsible about the donations that were provided through the GoFundMe and the other one through all the cryptos as well, all those campaigns.
Me to take the responsibility to go and make sure that all your ducks in a row, dealing with like thousands of people and millions of dollars.
She covered her basis, if you ask me.
But no, he's going to sit there and he's going to call foul play and he's going to call in a counter-terrorist act in order to put a stop to a bunch of people in hot tubs and bouncy castles.
Do you know what?
That's a great segue into clip three because Justin Trudeau is fragile.
So fragile that he would call people he never bothered to speak to names apropos of literally nothing.
So why don't we throw to clip three?
This is Tamara talking about what she felt as her prime minister is calling her a racist sexist.
Yeah.
I was becoming increasingly alarmed listening to my prime minister call me a racist and say that I shouldn't be tolerated.
I found his rhetoric to be incredibly divisive.
And I'm a believer that if you are a leader of a country, you have to lead all of your people, even if you don't agree with them.
And I just saw so much coming across Canada every day.
I heard stories, people, at least three people, would tell me they were planning their suicides until we started the convoy.
Or stories of people that we were too late.
I heard from families that were living in their vehicles because they'd lost their jobs.
I heard from people that had lost their jobs and lost everything.
I have the tears of thousands of Canadians on my shoulder who every day told me that we were bringing them hope.
I saw little old ladies praying on their knees on the side of the road and I saw little children holding signs saying, Thank you for giving me back my future.
You know, I look at her and the way she talks about carrying the weight of all these people on her shoulders reminds me of Jordan Peterson when he gets emotional, when he's talking about helping young men.
And he gets emotional because he's just taking on this burden.
He knows he has to help people.
He doesn't know if he can, but how do you say no?
And I think that's sort of the situation that she felt that she was in.
You know, every day they got closer to Ottawa, the crowds got bigger.
She heard more stories.
And she still carries that weight, obviously.
I think her coming out of the commission building today symbolized basically what you're talking about right now and what we've been seeing in the past months.
There was probably a crowd of 50 people, 50 plus people outside the commission waiting for her, clapping for her as she was coming out, encouraging her, showing her love.
And then on the other side of the road, you had this one lady who's always there yelling at her, yelling at her lawyers, yelling at Chris Barber, yelling at Danny Bolfor, saying that they are terrorists, calling them names.
I think it reminds me of the convoy.
You have Justin Trudeau, the one person calling them names, telling them that they're terrorists, telling them that they shouldn't be accepted, they should be dealt with.
And then on the other side, you have the whole people who are participating in the Freedom Convoy, showing them love.
I think the foot that we just saw was one of the many emotional clips of the night where Tamara Lee spoke from her heart and really was honest.
And I think it felt good for her finally being able to talk about all of this because her pale conditions don't allow her to talk that way.
Unfortunately, that's a candidate we're living in right now.
Absolutely, 100%.
And especially for me, the fact that the entire time through this entire commission, the narrative is that they tried so hard to have anybody from the government pay attention and speak with them.
And now she finally has the opportunity to have not just them listening, but everybody else as well.
And it's impressive to me that she's been able to hold back for so long with bail conditions such as the ones that she has.
Isn't it fascinating that Justin Trudeau fancies himself to be a male feminist, which is always, I use that phrase interchangeably with future molester.
But isn't it funny how he fancies himself to be this supporter of women's rights and strong, powerful women?
And every single woman who stands up to him, he smashes back down.
He did it to our former AG.
He did it to Celine Chavez.
Boy, I forget her name.
She doesn't like us, but I don't care.
I don't take anything personally.
Yes, that's right.
Rose Knight from BC and now Tamara Leach, the woman who inspired a nation, but not just inspired a nation, inspired a movement around the world.
Convoys were happening in Holland, the United States, Australia.
And what did he do?
He used the most powerful tool of the government to put her back in her place.
And good for her.
She refuses to capitulate.
She's holding strong.
She just won't back down.
Good for her.
And he tried to divide the country as well.
You know, he used divisive terms.
He used divisive, pejorative language.
And that's one thing that also came up to mind when I was hearing Tamara Leach testify.
You know, before she would work with an independence party in Alberta, right?
She would work with, I believe, the Maverick Party or maybe the Western Party.
Maverick.
Yeah, we talked about it before you were back.
We talked about it before you were back.
So she worked with the Maverick Party and then she decided not to work with them because she saw that Quebecers were not quite different from Alberta.
And just to put that as an just to show the comparison, instead of wanting a divided Canada, she wanted a united Canada.
And to the contrary, the prime minister, who's supposed to represent every single Canadian from coast to coast to coast, wants to divide Canadians.
And this grandmother, who's not in politics whatsoever, wants to unite the country.
Yep.
Now, let's move to Ben Dictor.
And the only reason I'm moving to Ben Dictor and away from Tamara Leach is just something that he said.
I realize that there's been a falling out with several people within the convoy.
They sort of went into their own corners after first lawyers get involved.
And I'm not saying that was a bad thing.
They definitely needed legal advice, but they also needed to practice a little bit of political and social hygiene.
They needed to get rid of some of the people who just couldn't control their mouths, Pat King.
And James Bowder, who wrote that crazy, crazy MOU about, I guess, subverting parliament and having some sort of panel of Canadians.
I don't know who would choose them.
Maybe James, I don't know.
And going around Parliament and dealing with the Senate.
So unelected people here, unelected people over there.
We're going to call it democracy.
I don't know.
But anyways, he published that.
You know, they wanted to distance themselves away from, I guess, somebody who is advocating for, I'm not saying an overthrow of the government, but just a complete and total rewrite of our constitutional democracy.
Um, but, anyways, um, so they're they were sort of distancing themselves.
You see, falling out with one of the other convoy early convoy organizers, uh, Bridget Belton.
Um, and I think they've completely fallen out with Ben Dictor.
Um, I saw yesterday that Keith Wilson, Tamar's lawyer, has said, We need an accounting of the crypto, we don't know what happened to it.
And Ben's never produced that, at least according to Keith.
I don't know.
Um, if Ben would talk to us, I'd love to ask him.
Um, but even he said that she's not extreme, she's just a practical grandma.
So, why don't we?
I think that's uh clip six learn about Miss Leech's politics.
What was she trying to do?
What was she hoping to achieve?
What was her interest?
You know what?
I don't know.
Why He Didn't Get Charged00:15:55
It's really interesting because she's she's really practical, and um, I wouldn't call her extreme to any side.
I would say she's I don't like the labels, it's the problem.
Uh, so the political spectrum thing, I would call her maybe very center-right if we're going to use that antiquated um definition, which I don't think is accurate.
But she's very, very pro-you know, she's no, I know something very libertarian on social issues, and she's the same way, so we crossed over a lot of that stuff.
So, even in spite of their big falling out, which I don't know why they feel there's a lot of palace intrigue, and like I said, the more I listen to some of the convoy factions talk, the more I'm surprised they ever got to Ottawa.
Although they are less disorganized than the OPS.
I'll give them that.
Um, but even he said, you know, she's just practical, she's not radical, she's completely normal, she's um a libertarian on social issues, and you know, like she's not that which the federal government said she is 100%.
Um, I think it's very apparent that there's been a falling out, and I don't think I realized how much there's been a falling out until I've seen.
I'm pretty sure this is true.
All the freedom uh convoy organizers have answered a question from you.
Is that right up until today?
No, because her son adjutes to her bail conditions are not allowed to Ben Dictor as well.
Well, Ben Dictor doesn't have bail conditions, he just refused to answer my question.
Not Ben Dictor, sorry, Chris.
Yeah, that's what happens when you spend a whole day at the inquiry and you take two coffees.
Yeah, Chris Barber is not allowed to because he has bail conditions.
But I was able to speak with someone last time, but of course, otherwise, I believe that these individuals would definitely answer some questions from some independent media, such as us, such as Rebel.
And Ben Dictor, that was really interesting to watch.
There was such an undertone of sarcasm in his testimony that I thought.
Yeah, hostile.
Yes.
Yeah.
No, and I just, I didn't, I don't, I don't have an account of seeing that from any of the other Freedom Convoy testimonies thus far.
Yeah, and I think, you know, I was able to speak with Jim Jim Carhalios after Ben Dictor's testimony, and I was able to have a quick interview with him, which is, by the way, his lawyer, right?
Yeah, so Jim Carajalios, yeah, he's the co-founder with Bill and De Carhalios and the leader of the New Blue Party.
He also studied law, I believe, at the University of Ottawa, which is right next to here.
And he's a lawyer.
So he was the counsel for Ben Victor during Ben Dictor's testimony, but he wasn't given standing.
So he's not allowed to cross-examine the other witnesses.
He's not allowed to be present throughout the whole inquiry room.
But in any regard, I was able to get a quick interview with him, which is going to come out tomorrow.
And yeah, honestly, both Tom, Keith, and Ben Dictor, the two sides give two different versions of the story.
I think they don't seem to recall the events the exact same way.
I think ego definitely played a part in this division.
Yes, and I wonder how much of it is palace intrigue.
I know that they started to distance themselves from certain convoy organizers.
And I know for a time Ben was doing comms, and I'm only speculating here, but maybe they quit communicating with Ben because they didn't think he was doing a good job of comms.
And I might suggest that that is true considering he went on RT, which is Russian state television, to troll CBC.
And I'm not sure that's a great comms strategy when CBC is already accusing you of being Kremlin-backed.
So I don't know.
I don't know.
Again, I don't know what happened there.
I'd love to ask Ben, but he won't take a question from us.
And we would love to, I mean, we talk to Tom Morazzo.
We talk to Keith Wilson, who's doing a lot of speaking on behalf of Tamara Leach and the other convoy organizers who can't.
We want everybody to be able to have their say.
We want the public to sort it out.
And so, again, let me extend this offer right now to Ben Dictor if he's watching.
Just take some questions from our guys.
We won't edit it.
We won't chop it.
That's not what we do.
We just want to ask you some questions the same way we do everybody else.
Yeah, well, I think in all fairness, I was able to get an interview with Jim and he was able to tell me Ben's.
Jim's great.
It would be great.
Yeah, it would be great to have Ben's own account of what his view of the convoy, what his view of the organization, and Tom Morazzo and Keith Wilson is.
Yeah, and we like Jim Carahelios.
Jim's great.
I like Belinda.
I like Jim.
I like kind of how prickly they are.
They don't like being told what to do.
I like how feisty they are.
So, I mean, obviously they have a feisty client.
But yeah, I mean, we just want to ask questions.
And the good news is I don't take anything personally.
Why don't we go to clip nine?
Because I alluded to this person before.
It's James Bowder.
He's with Canada Unity.
He was an early convoy organizer.
He's the guy who is responsible for the crazy MOU that the media then took and used to paint the entirety of the convoy as, oh, you're all trying to overthrow the government.
And Tamara and Tom are like, what?
But anyway, he was on the stand today and it was a little bit more like a therapy session.
And again, it's because these people have been silenced for so long and they've never been able to speak.
And they can speak in this commission without having their words used against them.
And there was a point at which I noticed the government lawyers were sort of probing him on his political ideology, which that's not what this is about.
They were sort of asking him, like, do you believe 9-11 is an inside job?
Why are you sharing QAnon?
Blah, And I'm thinking this is not a thought crime commission, comrade.
This is about Justin Trudeau.
And you're allowed to hold crazy ideas.
Ask me about aliens.
It's not illegal in this country to have crazy viewpoints.
It's when your crazy viewpoints turn violent, then we've got a problem.
But they didn't even break a window there.
So I just thought that was peculiar that they were trying to discredit James Bowder because I don't know, maybe he's into QAnon.
I don't care.
I know that obviously he's into homemade lawyering.
That's what I learned about James Bowder today.
But let's go to clip nine because regardless, again, deeply emotional, whatever his motivations are, he could not stand idly by while people were discriminated against.
And maybe his viewpoint of our, you know, our constitutional monarchy is a little bit skewed, but again, not illegal, not terrorism.
Let's go to clip nine.
Let's just stay calm, Lisa.
No, I know you're emotional and that's understandable, but if you try and just keep it down.
No, I don't apologize.
You don't have to apologize.
I will just calm down.
Just this is emotional when we see our government completely violating all the laws.
I understand.
And where do we turn to?
The Senate is our last hope.
And that's what's in their paychecks and their job descriptions.
There are plenty of times where he was, it was bizarre, right, guys?
He was calling for his own evidence.
Like, usually just the other witnesses sit there and then they show them evidence and then they ask him questions about the evidence and he's like, got his list of evidence that he wants to talk about.
It was really weird.
What was it like being in the room?
Yeah, well, I think as you stated earlier, you know, having different political beliefs is not a reason to invoke the Emergencies Act.
And we're here.
You know, the name of the inquiry is the Emergencies Act inquiry.
We're here to figure out whether or not the Emergencies Act was justified and hence necessary.
And someone's political belief, whether or not someone believes in 9-11, whether or not someone believes in ghosts or wearing shoes.
As a matter of fact, it has nothing to do with the commission.
The commission is figuring out.
So Paul Chen asking him questions about his political beliefs.
I think to a certain degree, he was trying to paint him as someone who is not trustworthy.
He was trying to do character assassination.
And I think that was his goal because otherwise, why on earth would you ask someone whether or not he believes in 9-11 when your goal is to figure out whether or not the protest was peaceful?
100% agreed.
He literally said yes to going back and doing another period of examination just to tear James Bowder apart some more.
I was like, who, like, who gave the okay?
Well, I know the commissioner gave the okay, but like, it just, it goes without saying.
Like, I thought it was quite apparent what was happening.
It's Paul Cham.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
There you go.
It's didn't didn't he, didn't you ever run in with him the first couple of days?
Yeah.
Paul Champ of tax tax the rich sticker on his laptop.
I'm like, you're an Ottawa lawyer.
You're the rich.
Like you're the guy.
Like you're the guy.
You're fighting, but you're in court or the commission cross-examining blue-collar people.
You want blue-collar people to pay for all of this when they rose up against the rich elites.
Isn't that weird?
Yeah, like the James Bowder's testimony, I mean, he's wrong.
Sincere, passionate, wrong, like wrong about how Canada works.
But again, being wrong is not a crime.
Being a little bit out there is not a crime.
Like encrypted, not a crime.
Throw me in jail.
But I mean, he was, it was really weird, though, because the judge, to his credit, I thought, was very patient with him.
Let him go off on his little tangents.
Let him call for his own evidence, which was weird.
And was very patient with him when he got emotional because he did get emotional a few times.
Like when he tried to take credit for convoys across the world and he said thank you or something.
It was strange, but I got to give credit to Justice Rollo.
And I was not convinced that he would be fair and even-handed, but he is really respectful of how sincere these people are.
Yeah, I think Judge Rulo is a fair judge.
I think we've seen that throughout the commission at the beginning.
Some people did have doubts about him because, yeah, because he's someone who had, in a certain way, ties with the Liberal Party.
We saw that come up even throughout the commission.
I think, once again, as I mentioned when we're talking about Peter Stolly, your political beliefs and your personal beliefs don't necessarily impact the way that you do your job.
And I think we're seeing that with Judge Rula.
I think he's able to be extremely fair.
He's able to be extremely impartial.
And I'm honestly extremely glad to see that happening.
I have nothing to add.
I agree with exactly what you just said regarding Rulo.
Yeah, I think it's tough to deal with people that are like really deep into their emotions.
And to be honest, from my perspective, I think that when Bowder was stanking them, you know, or taking credit, so to speak, for the inspiration that we saw across the world, I think it also just points to the enormity of the burden that some of these organizers felt that rested on their shoulders.
Yeah, rightly or wrongly.
Yeah, they took credit for things that they didn't do.
Let's go back to Ben Dictor for a second, because he's not charged with anything.
Though he was, I don't know if he was an organizer, but he was part of the communications team of the convoy and not just a protester.
He had sort of an official capacity as anybody can have an official capacity in a completely organic movement where just people came together.
And then now I guess they've all come apart again.
But he wanted to stay, it sounded like.
So when which I found odd because the people who were obviously negotiating an end to the occupation, and there's a paper trail to reflect that, those are the ones that got charged with mischief, which is weird.
But Ben Dictor didn't get charged with anything.
And it sounds like he wanted to stay because he was sort of upset that they were negotiating or when he found out that they were sort of negotiating an end to the occupation.
But then all of a sudden, the police got violent and he's like, we got to get out of here.
I think it's clip seven.
We could help influence people more, but that's not a guarantee.
And that actually came up on the 18th when the road captains came into my hotel after a trucker had guns drawn out him.
They smashed his windows.
The police pulled guns on him, arrested him in the snow.
Tamara had been arrested.
Chris had been arrested.
The road captains came into my room.
There seemed to be, I don't know if a lack of leadership, but maybe a lack of decision making, or they needed just another head to bounce ideas off of.
And they told me the story, and I said, Okay, well, I'll support what you guys want to do.
But if you're asking me, if the police are getting violent, maybe it's time to leave.
And to my surprise, the first person to pipe up was Bridget.
And she said, We can't let people get hurt.
We need to leave.
And then Joe did the same thing.
And all the other road captains that were sitting on my bed and standing up and Johnny.
Hmm.
It's weird.
Sounds like he was a decision maker.
So I wonder why he didn't get charged.
I also believe that at this time, he was in a wheelchair due to that car accident.
So I can't imagine anyone would really want to stay for a prolonged duration in such cold weather, like such cold weather and the extreme circumstances that they were under while in a wheelchair.
I'm confused to how that responsibility fell on his shoulders.
Yeah, no, I think there's a lot of confusion throughout.
I agree with what Seleni said.
She's truly expert on what exactly happened today.
She was the one live tweeting, doing all the hard work, following everything super closely.
Yeah, that was next Sunday.
Many coffees, many coffees.
And let's just, before we go, if someone could, if we have any chats that we need to do, could you put them in the thread, please?
Thank you, Olivia or Efron or whoever's doing that.
Let's just go to the one last thing because there's a lot of talk about, well, what happens to what happened to the money?
And they were not able to disperse it.
And Tamara addresses that in, I don't know what clip it is, but I'm sure you can find it, Olivia.
In that same report, I won't turn it up, but it indicates that most of the $1 million was frozen and you weren't able to withdraw it from the account.
Is that correct?
That's correct.
Do you recall how much you were able to withdraw?
Fueling Disputes00:11:14
I believe it was $26,000.
So $10,000 of that.
If you would like me to break it down for you.
You're anticipating my question.
So yes, please go ahead.
$10,000 of that was wired to a bulk fuel supplier.
$3,000 was e-transferred to another fuel provider.
Chris and I have gone down.
Sorry, Mr. Barbara and I had gone down to the TD and we withdrew $3,000 in cash from one account and $10,000 in cash from, or sorry, one branch and then went to the next branch.
And then, and I remember being very nervous about it because I was very conscious that we needed receipts when we needed to be accountable.
And they were the road captains that went out and bought whatever supplies, fuel.
I believe some of that went to fuel.
And they were, when they brought the receipts back, there was actually extra money in the kitty.
So.
All along, people accuse her of taking off with the money.
No, the only person who tried to take off with the money, by the way, was Doug Ford when he got an injunction to try to seize all their crowdfunding.
He tried to enrich himself through this, but she's very careful.
She realized that there would be extreme scrutiny on her with the handling of the money.
And I forget who testified earlier this week that they did have an accountant who was brought in to help them, but they never really got any access to the money.
So as Paul Chemp would ask, is the accountant due?
That's what he said.
Yeah, what a weirdo.
Such a non-racist person, right?
No, I think we can see that it is extremely, they're super meticulous.
Is that the word?
I'm tired.
Is that the word meticulous?
Meticulous.
Yes.
Meticulous, right?
They were more organized than the OPS, in my opinion.
And I think Tamara, seeing her testimony about the money and about the accountability that she had, shows how much of the convoy actually relied on her shoulder and how much of the pressure she felt.
Yeah.
She must have felt every day.
Yeah.
And even though she didn't proclaim herself as the leader, people did paint her as such.
And so that's really important that despite how she thought about herself, she did go out of her way to address their concerns and be responsible on behalf of how much money was actually donated.
Yeah, you know, just a quick side note.
She had to prove she was Metis to those psychotic people on the internet.
They said she was just, I forget what they call it, pretend Indian or whatever, that she was just faking it so that she would have, you know, this cloak of invisibility because of social justice.
And she had to like literally produce her heritage to stop the allegations that she didn't look native enough or indigenous enough.
And so she couldn't possibly be Métis.
Like just disgusting.
I thought you could self-identify as anything you wanted these days, by the way, anyway.
But yeah, no, she literally proved it.
Well, that's the thing.
Imagine if a leftist person was actually told, hey, are you sure you are Metzi?
Are you sure that that's really what you are?
How much of an outrage would have caused within the CBCCTV global news?
David Atkin would probably go yellow at that person.
But since it was Samarali, since she is freedom-oriented, since she is center-right, as the dictator was saying, it was totally fine to question her origins.
Olivia informs me, last minute edition from Fron before we get to the chats, and we'll sign off because you guys have been working 12 hours.
I think we're headed on to for you guys.
It's a snarky.
Yeah.
By the way, this snarky quip is about Alberta, and you guys are working like Alberta kids.
So good for you guys, William.
Welcome to Western Work Ethic.
No, we're being, what's the word?
I keep forgetting my words because I'm so tired.
Did you say you're being overtaken by Alberta?
Yeah, we're being overtaken by colonized.
We're overtaken by Alberta.
We're being colonized.
Now you're going to have Sheila who's going to come at the RBNB.
We have Celine.
We've got Tian.
We're being colonized by Alberta at the moment.
You'll never know when I come.
I'm just going to pop in like I do to my son's house to make sure everything's clean and tidy.
I'll just show up one day.
Let's take a look at that.
Anyways, we've got a snarky clip about Alberta from Commissioner Rollo.
Yeah.
Or friends from the Ottawa Police Service who had raised the issue and with some of your commission.
Yeah, I think it's lawyers have to be aware of the rule.
It's basically the same rule as applies to in courts.
And you can't speak about the cross-examination on the evidence.
You can prepare, but that's a different matter.
And the line, obviously, we rely on lawyers to respect that.
Obviously, I'm sure it's the same in Alberta.
Kind of.
Yes, sir.
It is.
We're all one country.
Thanks, Rillo, for that.
Yeah, thank you.
We are all one country.
Thanks for a reminder.
You guys aren't separated yet.
I think he needs to watch Ungovernable, I think.
Yeah, made by Rebels King Simoni.
Yeah, I think that'd be a good start.
You know, the exchange there was because Tamara is staying in an Airbnb, it sounds like, with Brendan Miller and some of the other lawyers.
And since she's still testifying, she's still under oath.
And they just want to make sure that they're not going to get in trouble for talking to her.
Now, they're not supposed to talk about her testimony, upcoming, or what happened today.
But they just wanted to make sure because people call and tattle on Tamara all the time for everything.
She said she was outside and somebody called the cops because she was having a smoke.
Obviously, somebody called the cops when she got her picture taken and then she was taken back to jail, even though there were lawyers around.
So they just wanted to be ultra careful that nobody calls the cops and she's breached on her conditions or she's accused of breaking the rules of the commission and then big, big trouble.
So just a quick look.
I believe I'm 99% sure they are allowed to talk about the upcoming testimony.
There's just not a lot to talk about what she said.
What she said now.
Yeah.
Okay, thanks, Stickler.
Take a look at the chats now.
Yeah, you're tired, but you're still a stickler.
Okay, we've got one from Anna Lisa in 1964.
It gives us 10 bucks.
No love here for the stickler.
Hello, you awesome ladies.
Today, Precious Tamara made me cry.
A lot of people, a lot of people, I think she moved to tears.
My heart is so broken for her.
I admire her strength.
I don't know how she's not bitter and evil and just looking for vengeance and blood because I would be.
She's a better woman than me.
That's for sure.
Better than that.
You and me, both.
Yeah, better Christian than me.
That's for sure.
Vengeance is mine.
Say it's the Lord, but I'd like a little piece too.
You know, I don't appreciate being misgendered, Annalisa.
My pronouns are.
I would please ask you to respect my pronouns.
Otherwise, Bill C16 might be in vote on you.
No, Tamara Lisha's testimony was definitely heartbreaking.
I was in the crowd once again while she was giving her testimony.
It might have just been tiredness, but I know I felt my eyes fill with water a little bit.
And I know some people in the crowd were crying.
I was walking back with Chris Barber as we're exiting the commission.
He spoke to me about the emotion that he felt and the emotion he felt in the crowd.
It was definitely a heartbreaking testimony.
Everything that this strong, brave woman went through, it's astonishing.
I never thought I would live in a country where this is the case.
Yeah, my natural default to avoid being emotional like that is to get mad.
So that's where I'll just stay so that I don't have runny mascara.
I'll just stay angry.
I'm going to take that and I'm going to keep that in mind.
Yeah.
Don't be angry like me.
Be a nice person.
And we've got one from, it sounds like it's from our re stream.
So people are leaving paid chats on the stream during the day, which is wonderful.
And we'll try to get to those if you want to do that.
You don't have to stick around to the end.
Feel free to just leave a chat whenever you're watching and we'll do our best to round them up and read them at the end of the day.
So this one, 71 bucks.
Holy heck.
Says, stop machine voting.
I think okay.
We stand on guard, Trudeau, useless leader, no meetings, no peace talks, honking heroes.
Thank you, Canadian government, beat peaceful protesters outrageous.
And that's from Alice BB.
Well, Alice, thanks so much.
And again, if you want to be like Alice and just leave a chat as you're watching, we'll be happy to take it.
You don't have to wait till the end of the day.
I think that's everything, guys.
Thank you so much for watching the stream, by the way, Alice.
Thank you for your generous donation.
Yeah, people stay peaceful.
That's what I'm saying about the convoy.
Everything was peaceful and everything is still peaceful with the supporters that are outside the commission building.
Peace.
Peacefulness.
The William recap, ladies and gentlemen.
Yes.
Okay, I think that's it.
You guys are tired, probably hungry.
I know you didn't eat because you guys just raced over from the commission to jump on the stream.
And it's like 20 to 9 for you guys.
Guys, great work today.
You guys are back at it tomorrow.
So don't stay up too late.
Get something to eat.
Go to bed.
We'll be back here tomorrow.
Tamara Leach's testimony should wrap up maybe by noon.
And then we'll have some other people testifying.
Should be an exciting day tomorrow.
I'm not sure who's going to be on the stream tomorrow.
Definitely you two.
Maybe not me.
And as David Menzies always says, stay sane.
My reference to I Don't Care About His Past is that I had to believe that everybody that was involved was getting involved for the right reasons.
And as I said, when I spoke with Mr. Barber and I found out that they were involved, I was aware of his reputation.
And I just felt that I didn't want to start this off criticizing other people.
Best Intentions Regardless00:01:18
Again, because I just felt like I had to believe that people that were joining this movement were joining it with the best of intentions, regardless of their past.
Freedom in 2022 is your right to disagree with me anytime on anything in your heart, online, or in the public square.
Freedom in 2022 is also your right to live your life however you see fit without hurting me or for that matter being bothered by me.
But freedom in 2022 is in very real danger under constant attack by Justin Trudeau through his censorship bills, his attacks on gun rights, his attacks on farmers, and his attacks on peaceful protesters.
These people have even tried to denormalize our flag.
At Rebel News, we're not afraid to have dangerous discussions that Justin Trudeau, the media and big tech censors, say we're not allowed to have.
And we want to have them with you at our upcoming Rebel Live events first in Toronto, November 19th, and again in Calgary, Saturday, November 26th.
I'll be there with dozens of other rebels and rebel-adjacent free thinkers.
And I hope that you'll join us.
Just go to RebelNewsLive.com to get your tickets today, but do not sleep on this because these tickets are going fast.