RadixJournal - Richard Spencer - Fellow Travelers

Sept. 2, 2016 - RadixJournal - Richard Spencer

29:21

Fellow Travelers

Paul Kersey (@SBPDL) joins Richard to discuss Trump’s groundbreaking speech on immigration as well as the “Alt Light” phenomenon. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit radixjournal.substack.com/subscribe

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	I was literally shaking last night.
	How about you?
	I didn't mean to watch it.
	I had no intention to watch the speech.
	I happened to come to my computer, because I've cut the cord, and turned on Fox, FoxNews.com, went there, and I was like, oh, I'll watch, I'll give it a shot.
	Popped on Twitter, just because I wanted to be able to see live reaction.
	And that's really cool, because it's basically like you're watching.
	A speech with some of your best friends on Twitter.
	It's amazing.
	It's a lot of fun and the instantaneous reaction from anyone in the world, really.
	I'll just jump in real quick.
	One could say that what has happened in terms of social media is very unhealthy.
	We should be having communal interactions with people face-to-face and we live near and so on.
	But, you know, it is what it is.
	I was joking with a friend of mine the other day.
	I was like, I don't think at this point I have any non-shitlord friends.
	And you could say that that's sad.
	I'm this recluse who lives and is up in my attic on Twitter.
	But it's not exactly like that.
	It's the good and the bad.
	You could say this is a very bad development.
	We're not connected with our communities.
	Or you could say this is an amazing development that we're meeting all these people whom we never would have met and we're building friendships that wouldn't have happened.
	Where you're just watching people build unbelievable brands out of thin air.
	And that's the beautiful thing of what's happening.
	So I started watching, and it dawned on me after he started to list off these tenets, these planks.
	I was like, this guy is giving a speech that is basically asserting...
	He's basically, okay, let's go to Red Dawn.
	Remember that great scene in John Milius' Red Dawn where what's the difference between them and us, huh?
	He goes, because we live here.
	And that to me has always been kind of a motto of how I view life.
	It's like, okay, you know, hey, I like what Trump said about Mexico.
	Mexico, they have a right for self-determination in Mexico, not in America.
	They don't have the right to determine our trajectory as a nation.
	Right.
	That was the setup.
	This is the thing.
	It was this, it was actually brilliant.
	And I, I go back and forth between thinking Trump is like just flying by the seat of his pants and he doesn't know what he's doing, but it all seems brilliant.
	Like, you know, at the, uh, uh, And then I often sometimes think, oh, this man is actually a total genius in terms of PR and influence.
	I kind of go back and forth, to be honest.
	But I would say that yesterday, August 31st, 2016 of the current year, that was a day of brilliance.
	Because it was a setup.
	The morning session where he was in Mexico was very diplomatic, very serious.
	I wouldn't say high energy, to be honest.
	It was kind of boring.
	Press conferences are boring.
	I don't know if there's ever been one that's been really interesting in our lifetime.
	It's a, you know, it's very well crafted, very safe talk and so on.
	But he did set it up because he said like, you know, I love Mexico.
	They're amazing people.
	They're wonderful.
	You know, all that kind of stuff.
	But he was like, they have a right to love themselves and we have a right to love ourselves.
	And so that was a kind of little seed of nationalism that he planted.
	And then in the evening, it was just like unbelievable.
	That speech was so much better than I would have imagined.
	And the other thing about it is that he was really hearkening back to 1924.
	Because, and the 1924 Immigration Act, there were actually a couple of acts that came that were there.
	Because basically, those acts, which were influenced by people like Madison Grant and so on, and Madison Grant was almost like, yeah, those guys were acting almost like Eminence Gris.
	They were behind the scenes, you know, certainly influencing people through their ideology and their concepts of history and so on.
	But basically, that was an act based on, we want to keep America the same, therefore all new immigration is going to reflect the ethnic and racial constitution of the current nation.
	And, okay, yes, Trump did not say that.
	He did not quote from the conquest of the continent or something.
	But that would have been a little...
	The passing of the great race.
	If he would have done that, then I might have had a heart attack.
	I think maybe he spared me by not...
	But anyway...
	But he was gesturing towards that.
	It wasn't this, we're a universal nation, or it wasn't a, we've got to be fair to the world.
	There are people in Indonesia who want to be here.
	How could we say no to those guys?
	It wasn't that nonsense.
	It was basically, we're going to have immigration that reflects our nation.
	And it was a little soft around the edges, but just the fact that he put forth that idea was...
	It's like he's changing the way people think.
	He's reorienting their minds.
	I don't think we can underestimate the significance of that.
	There's not much else to analyze the speech than what you just said.
	We are witnessing a historic paradigm shift in the world.
	And our brethren are cousins in Europe.
	I hope they're listening carefully.
	They are.
	And they look at what Merkel and they look at what – I can't even think what the French president's name is.
	Who cares?
	It doesn't really matter.
	Holland or whatever his name is.
	Yeah, Hulant.
	August 31st is a date – 2016 is a date that our great-grandkids will look at.
	Turn things around.
	And it doesn't mean that Trump is the great leader who's going to lead us charging into the hordes of Mordor or something like that.
	No, no, no.
	He's opening the gate for that eventual persons.
	And so is Hillary Clinton.
	Oh, Hillary Clinton.
	She did this while I was on my Japanese vacation, so I didn't get to do a podcast on it, but I'm going to be doing some more podcasts in the next coming days.
	I'm just recovering.
	I arrived back late the night before Tuesday night.
	I'm still kind of jet-lagged and kind of out of it, to be honest, but I'm going to do some more talking about this subject.
	People's minds.
	And Hillary did as well.
	Because what was remarkable about Hillary's speech was that she did outreach to John McCain, George W. Bush, Mitt Romney supporters.
	She was basically saying, we're all one.
	We might disagree on policy, but in terms of the big picture, we're all together on this.
	And the alt-right is the moniker of resistance.
	The alt-right is the black flag.
	It's funny you say it that way, because I thought James Kirkpatrick wrote a really good piece for Vidaire.
	Where he used the word collaborators.
	And I think that's such a perfect word to describe the outreach that she did to the neocons, to the standard bearers of the Republican Party who have been the architects.
	And the faces of just such disastrous policies.
	They're not even collaborators.
	They're just colleagues.
	They're equals.
	It's like from Carol Quigley's book, Tragedy and Hope, where he talks about being able to sit in on all these meetings and he said, well, I just wish we would be open about what we're doing.
	Well, Hillary was just open.
	Hillary was just incredibly transparent about the partnership that exists in the Beltway.
	We think it's actually a game, but it's even worse than professional wrestling.
	It's just shadowboxing at this point.
	We understand, and I think to some extent, the Bernie Sanders supporters, who are just non-existent now.
	I have no idea what happened to him.
	They should be ashamed of themselves.
	Perhaps they're hiding in his vacation home or something.
	I agree.
	They got it.
	They were getting it.
	They did get it.
	In their own way, you know, their leftist, whatever, but they kind of got it as well.
	They did get it, and it's just a shame because Hillary just gave a speech that, like, you're right.
	I mean, she basically just put all the cards on the table, and it's like, wow, okay.
	So it is just an incestuous...
	Orgy that Matt Drudge couldn't even comprehend if he was trying to do the Burning Man orgy that he keeps linking to.
	If you've seen that story, he keeps linking to it.
	What is that?
	The Burning Man?
	There's some tent at Burning Man that he must be fixated upon because he keeps linking to all these strange stories of sexual depravity at Burning Man.
	It's funny because...
	That's not exactly news, I guess.
	The point is this.
	And hey, that's a great little segue, though.
	Matt Drudge deserves a hand in all of this.
	He might not be an official shitlord, and there are some things about Matt that I think we all have problems with, but he has been such a huge proponent of breaking the ceiling, so to speak, in terms of...
	He's now actually using terms like white people beaten as opposed to just like, oh, it's a knockout game.
	Yeah, I agree.
	This is how I would describe it.
	I might quibble with Kirkpatrick on collaborators.
	I think that's almost like assuming that these Democrats are in control.
	I would say they're colleagues.
	But I would say this.
	I think people like Drudge and Ann Coulter and Milo and others are fellow travelers.
	And with us, with the alt-right.
	And of course, we have our disagreements.
	Like, you know, Ann Coulter, she comes from mainstream conservatism.
	She's like a hard—she was a hardcore version of mainstream conservatism.
	That's why I would always—I couldn't stand her until recently.
	And she did write a book that could have been titled Democrats are the Real Racist.
	It's called Mugged from 2012.
	You know, I'm not— It is.
	It is.
	It is.
	That's what it is.
	However, look, I'm nothing if not a scientist.
	I'm willing to change my opinion when facts change.
	And so, you know, I like Anne now.
	I think she is a fellow traveler of the alt-right.
	And I don't, in a way, want her to be alt-right.
	I don't want her to start sounding exactly like Richard Spencer.
	Because she's less powerful that way.
	You know, we already have me.
	We already have Jared.
	We have Kevin MacDonald.
	I think it's good that we have Anne.
	And she's pushing, you know, she's...
	Channeling energy in our direction.
	And people like Stefan Molyneux.
	I mean, I actually have been a fan of Molyneux for a while.
	Not that I agreed with him.
	I'm not an anarchist.
	But I always found him very compelling and charismatic.
	And, you know, whenever you listen to a Stefan Molyneux talk, you know it's going to be interesting.
	And he's kind of bringing people towards, you know, he's channeling the energy towards the alt-right.
	So I think this is great, and I think it's, you know, communism had fellow travelers, and they weren't communists.
	They were people who sympathized, they agreed with, say, 80%, or maybe just 50%, or 51%, but that was enough.
	And they were important people, maybe more important than, like, hardcore Marxist intellectuals.
	So, you know, I think it's a great thing.
	I think we should be applauding fellow travelers.
	And we should also criticize them.
	Exactly.
	If Anne goes and does more, you know, TRS, it's like, what is it, DR cubed or...
	If she goes DR cubed, I'll definitely hit back at her.
	Well, if Ann tweets that she's going to go see a matinee showing of Hillary's America and encourages other people to go see it, well, then we know, hey, Ann, come on.
	Give us a break.
	Seriously?
	Come on.
	Dinesh, he's a plagiarizer who had to have, what, end of racism, first print run, scrap, because he lied about Sam Francis and Jared Taylor.
	It wasn't that.
	He was plagiarizing parts of, this is the great irony of that scandal.
	Jared Taylor, and I believe Jared might have written this under the name Samuel Taylor, because he's used, I don't know the whole story behind that, I've never asked him about it, but he wrote a book called, What was it called?
	It was from the 90s.
	Paid with Good Intentions.
	Paid with Good Intentions.
	I actually read that about 10 years ago.
	It's a great book.
	But it's definitely real on race, but it's not...
	It's not from the perspective of a nationalist.
	It's almost like a Heather McDonald-style book.
	Which is fine.
	It is what it is.
	Yeah, it is what it is.
	It is what it is.
	Right.
	And Dinesh was effectively plagiarizing that book while he was criticizing the American Renaissance Conference and bashing Sam Francis and effectively getting Sam Francis fired as well.
	Pre-internet days or early internet days in the mid-90s, you had to write articles like that.
	Sam Francis would be cackling about what's going on right now because...
	He would have gotten his book out on the synthesizing race and history and politics.
	But going back real quick to what you were talking about, the fellow travelers, I guess I can say this.
	I've met a lot of these people.
	I know a lot of these people before he had his, unfortunately.
	One of his main outlets, Severed Milo, I'm talking about Twitter, had an opportunity to meet him and I told him, I said, look dude, you're really important but the guy that I think is the most important thinker out there who's doing a lot of good things because he's basically forced an entire organization to shift gears in its coverage of politics and world events.
	That's Paul Joseph Watson at InfoWars.
	And, I mean, the stuff, we can laugh and think, oh, come on, that's ridiculous.
	But it's amazing how active this guy is and the output that he has on what's happening in Europe to Europeans by this Muslim migration.
	He just posted this horrifying image on Facebook of a fountain, a beautiful fountain in Paris in 2013.
	Then there's an image of it in 2016, and it's completely graffitied.
	And it looks like you're in Johannesburg.
	And it's a frightening image.
	And it's that kind of meme.
	It's that kind of pushing the same subject over and over again.
	This cultural enrichment.
	We joke about that phrase.
	He's beginning to red pill and lead people into our direction.
	Ten years ago, this guy was writing books about 9-11 and Building 7, and there was no plane that hit the Pentagon.
	I actually read that book.
	It was actually pretty good.
	InfoWars did much goofier stuff than that.
	They did.
	The Infowars transition has been pretty remarkable because I remember watching some of his YouTube videos and reading some of the stuff.
	It's interesting.
	It was kind of like entertainment.
	I don't know if you remember the Vigilant Citizen blog.
	I've not read that in a while.
	Interesting arguments and kind of fascinating exegesis.
	And I'm a fan of exegesis.
	It's, you know, interpretation of pop culture.
	Occult symbolism.
	Right.
	It was very intriguing.
	But, you know, you take it with a big shaker of salt.
	You know, it's like...
	And I never would have imagined that the Infowars and Paul Joseph Watson would be pro-police.
	They would be non-conspiratorial and much more about demographics.
	Infowars has an amazing story today that I haven't seen anywhere else of this 16-year-old, 18-year-old black kid who beat.
	The five-year-old white girl on the bus.
	And the teacher, the administrators of the school basically said, oh, that's normal behavior.
	And I'm reading the comments section and it's like, holy cow, these are startlingly racist comments from the Infowars readers.
	Their audience has shifted.
	I mean, it's almost as if the old Alex Jones audience has gone exclusively to coast-to-coast.
	And the new Alex Jones audience is basically the kind that They want to read—I mean, there's a strange nexus.
	It's Drudge.
	It's, you know, for lack of—I'll just say it.
	I think Gateway Pundit is doing phenomenal work.
	Jim Hoff.
	He's another one, yeah.
	Phenomenal.
	He's another one that's—I think you could say he's a fellow traveler, and I never would have said that years ago.
	It's funny.
	It's funny.
	Back in 2014, he started doing the phenomenal work, the tremendous work on the Ferguson situation because it basically was happening in his backyard there in Metro St. Louis.
	At some point, I was like, hey, I bet this guy's gay.
	Something told me that I had this little thing.
	I was like, hey, this guy probably – I watched a speech he did or an interview he did.
	I remember when he came out and it was just really cool to watch all these people make these transitions from – I think a lot of people in Free Republic are having that.
	It's getting kind of cool in terms of the comments and the links that they're allowing to go.
	I've seen a lot of the stuff from my site stay up there and get significant traffic.
	And people are like, oh my god, you read Kersey too?
	It's cool.
	It's great.
	One of the reasons why you wanted to have this conversation, I believe, is regarding what just happened with the NFL and Colin Kaepernick.
	And I believe that as we're speaking, there are people, Having conversations with their friends, sending emails, fantasy football leagues, guys who've known each other all their lives.
	It's like, man, this piece of garbage.
	Can you believe this guy?
	Won't stand up for the national anthem.
	And now he's wearing police pig socks and he's saying that cops are racist and they're rogue cops.
	Do you know what?
	The way I've described it, and I actually use this term in...
	At this Detroit gathering that I spoke at a month ago, which is really great.
	It was like 75 people, all 100% red-pilled, most all of them under 40. I mean, it was remarkable.
	But yeah, I said it's like we're the end station.
	We're the end station.
	We're the final result.
	And you don't, the way I put it is like, you never meet someone who is like, oh, I'm an ex-alt-right libertarian.
	Or, I used to be alt-right, but now I'm a liberal.
	Or, I used to be alt-right, but now I'm a Marco Rubio supporter.
	You never meet...
	To even say this is, in a way, ridiculous.
	You never meet those people.
	Because, basically, everyone is an ex-libertarian or an ex-conservative or even an ex-leftist.
	And they're now alt-right.
	Alt-right is the end station.
	Alt-right is the destination.
	And you might not go all the way, but that's the direction you're headed in.
	And I think that's what makes our movement important.
	And I always knew this because this knowledge kept me going when we were not being denounced by presidential candidates or talked about on Fox News.
	I've known you.
	We've probably known each other for almost 10 years now.
	And we've been in the wilderness in this movement where no one paid attention to us.
	The same people came to the conferences every year.
	We weren't really making headway and so on.
	But we understood that we were delving in the real dope.
	This is the stuff that matters.
	This is not some eccentric society of flat earthers or...
	Some weird hobby or something.
	This was the real stuff.
	And I, it is, it is very inspiring and to the fact that everyone seems to be coming in our direction and they might not get all the way and that's fine, actually, totally fine.
	And I, I think we should push back a little if Paul Joseph Watson is like, oh, yeah, we in the alt-right believe in libertarianism.
	We're going to push back on that.
	But just the fact that he's kind of...
	Pushing energy in our direction, I think, is unequivocally good.
	So I am pro-alt-light.
	I think I stole that from Fashion Nation, but I think it's a good term.
	I'm pro-alt-light.
	I don't think that we should be Puritans about this and start bashing everyone.
	I've never believed that, actually.
	I don't think wild attacks on the manosphere accomplished.
	Anything.
	I don't think that we should be attacking people who are kind of coming our direction.
	And I think it's just, it's clearly happening.
	Like, if you're going to be edgy, you're going to be coming, you're going to be all light.
	It's a bunch of armies meeting up in the night.
	And, you know, you never know what's going to happen when the pitchforks are raised.
	The village has finally stormed.
	It's a beautiful thing.
	I'll tell you, the guys that I've become huge fans of are the Dobert guy, Scott Adams.
	His book, I can't recommend enough.
	Another great example.
	How to Fail at Almost Everything and Still Win Big is a beautiful autobiography.
	It's a wonderful tale because you know what he says in this book that's so fantastic?
	He basically says, don't have goals.
	Have a system that becomes routine.
	That's what we did.
	We could have said, oh, we have a goal of one day being denounced by a presidential candidate, or we have a goal of being constantly referred to on Rachel Maddow's program, or having obscure GOP consultants say that we're in basements watching anime.
	Sorry, dude, I don't even know what anime is.
	My basement has really heavy weights in it that I lift on a daily basis that a lot of athletes and pro sports can't even do.
	It's fascinating how many people out there who, if they would just start having conversations with their followers, would probably lead more individuals to our way.
	I think it was by Ellison Lodge on the importance of the alt-right light.
	Laying that carpet.
	I haven't read that yet, but I'll link to that.
	It's very good.
	It's very good.
	I've heard of that guy, Alison Lodge.
	Yeah.
	And another guy who I think is really important because he's teaching people, if you're watching what he's saying, he's teaching other individuals how to take the baton from him and create their own brands and use social media.
	and the, um, the various, uh, entities, uh, whether it's Periscope, whether it's Facebook live, YouTube, uh, Mike Cernovich is a guy that you should be following.
	You should watch his stuff.
	And you should realize, you know, he might not be as far as I'd want to be.
	But you know what?
	I can take the techniques that he's using to build this massive audience and this incredible influence.
	And I can do that, too.
	And that really is all that...
	Oh, totally.
	I mean, Cernovich...
	Yeah, this is, again, I think we're both totally on the same page, and I assume that Ellison Lodge agrees as well.
	There is a value to Alt-Light, and there's a value to Cernovich.
	That doesn't mean that we're going to...
	I think it's very important that we define the alt-right.
	And I think actually a very good thing, and I'm not saying this to be narcissistic or whatever, but the alt-right is, I would say, intrinsically tied with me.
	And also Jared.
	Jared seems to get mentioned as much or more as I do in the mainstream media.
	So I actually think the alt-right Even if Paul Joseph Watson wants to co-opt it for goofy libertarianism, I think they'll fail.
	Because the alt-right didn't emerge with Paul Joseph Watson, and then I adopted it.
	It's the other way around.
	I don't think they can actually take it away.
	And the other thing about it is that Mike Cernovich has obviously built up a huge brand, but also there are people like Ricky Vaughn who have come out of nowhere and built up huge brands, and they are to the right of Richard Spencer.
	So it's not like the only success stories have been all light.
	There's been tons of people like Ricky Vaughn who have built up audiences who are 100% on board.
	So yeah.
	I think this is...
	As everyone can tell, I'm enthused.
	Maybe it's just the Trump speech rubbed off of me, or Hillary's speech rubbed off of me, but I'm definitely enthused.
	And I was getting a little...
	I wasn't getting depressed.
	I was getting a little down with Trump these past months.
	There was a softening.
	I still am not...
	I think Mike Pence has been basically a non-entity.
	I mean, he has not really influenced the campaign at all.
	But, you know, I was still not happy about that pick.
	I still am not.
	So I was kind of going off into a little bit of Trump skepticism.
	But I'm not anymore.
	I think we're back.
	And I think Trump...
	Maybe Trump was having moments of self-doubt or something, and then he was just like, fuck it, I'm going to double down on who I am.
	More importantly, it's about—I don't want to use the term riding the tiger, but Milwaukee happened, and that was such an amazing moment because a black cop who's this really just thug, crappy dude who sang a song about—who did a rap song about— Starting a riot like Baltimore, he kills one of his friends from childhood, this even worse POS.
	And what do blacks do?
	They start attacking white people.
	I mean, that's such a great moment.
	And what Matt Drudge did that Sunday was just...
	So beautiful.
	Because he put it in explicitly racial terms on the most important site on the internet about, you know, whites being attacked by blacks.
	And when you read the stories, you're like, well, why are white people being attacked?
	And, my God, when did Milwaukee become, you know, majority black when it was, geez, 71% white in 1980 and now it's 37% white?
	What happened?
	And, you know, then you go to what happened with Colin Kaepernick and you're just, you know, sports are such an opiate.
	And, you know, I have no...
	Let's do this.
	Let's take a pause.
	We'll put a bookmark in it, and we'll jump into football.
	So let's just do this.
	I'm glad we got some things off our chest about Trump and Hillary and the alt-right.

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