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July 30, 2024 - Rudy Giuliani
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The Rudy Giuliani Show | 30 July 2024
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Hello, this is Rudy Giuliani, and we're back with another edition of Rudy's Common Sense.
And today, we have an exciting guest, someone who Someone who has a website called Just The News, and I would say he's Just The News John Solomon.
You can get John on Just The News, you can get him on Real America's Voice, which is on TV, and you can get his podcast on Just The News, and it seems like every week, twice a week, he breaks a big story about everything.
But right now we're going to talk to him about the election of 2020, which seems to be Unraveling, if it hasn't unraveled already and just not been reported.
John, tell us about your analysis, your recent analysis of the election and what you spotted as I think it was the 20 top, what should we call them, irregularities?
In some cases, illegalities.
Irregularities and illegalities.
Okay.
Yeah, you're right, Mr. Mayor.
Well, first, thanks for having me on.
It's always an honor to be with you.
The election story of 2020, the big lie, has gone the path of Russia collusion and Ukraine impeachment, which is the mainstream media, the democratic establishment, and in some cases, the bureaucracy of the federal government conspired to give us one story. And then we have spent
years unraveling those stories and getting to the truth. And they all go into reversal. That's one of
the amazing things about the Trump era. The major scandal stories, and I put scandal in quotes
now, they all go in reversal. It started with Russia collusion.
We saw what happened to Christopher Steele's dossier.
And now we have, you know, members of Clinton's legal team and the FBI indicted, charged, convicted in some cases.
The same thing about Ukraine impeachment.
We were told there was nothing wrong with Hunter Biden's activity.
Now he's under criminal investigation.
The laptop, which you helped bring to light, shows all of these really unseemly deals he was doing in the wake of his father's policy.
And we know two of his business partners have been convicted of crimes.
That story went into reversal.
The same thing is happening now to the election 2020 story.
Department thought what Hunter Biden was doing was wrong.
That story went into reversal. The same thing is happening now to the election 2020 story. We were
told it was a perfect election.
The guy named Krebs, who ran the cybersecurity agency, the one that President Trump fired,
he told us after the election, this was a perfectly secure, cybersecure election.
The FBI disagrees.
They recently, with the US Attorney's Office, brought an indictment that revealed that Iranian hackers, Iranian state backed hackers, Cracked into one of the state's election databases, stole 100,000 Americans' voter identities, and used those voter identities to try to influence the 2020 election.
Mr. Krebs' comments do not hold up to scrutiny when you learn that case.
All across the country, you saw what the Wisconsin Chief Justice of the Supreme Court did in his election integrity, saying there was ballot harvesting and fraud and nursing home voting, enough that he thinks maybe Wisconsin legislature should consider decertifying the results.
Arizona, two or three different investigations found things from signatures not matching to 50,000 ballots that don't look to be correct.
In Pennsylvania, The courts have ruled that the changes to allow no-excuse absentee ballots were in fact unconstitutional.
So a rule change that vastly affected the Pennsylvania election and its outcome deemed to be unconstitutional.
Wisconsin's Supreme Court has given two rulings, ruling that the rules that the Evers administration gave for the election were unlawful, illegal.
One of them allowed tens of thousands of voters to vote absentee without using voter ID in violation of
state law. Another allowed those drop boxes to be distributed when there was no such legal
authority in Wisconsin to do so.
So when people look out, it is now clear that there was unlawful activity, illegal activity,
unconstitutional activity. And that doesn't even get us into the sort of things that are ongoing
right now in Georgia, where the documents I unearthed in Fulton County show that Brad
Rassenberger's own personal observer found 27 pages of- Of irregularities during the election counting process.
And we now know that he's investigating ballot harvesting, a widespread ballot harvesting operation that Catherine Engelbrecht, the great election integrity activist, found by comparing videotapes of people dropping off ballots with phone records and then getting a whistleblower to say, oh yeah, I participated in that operation.
I was paid $10 every time I got someone's ballot and delivered it, which by the way, is unlawful in Georgia.
The election story has gone the path of Russia collusion and Ukraine impeachment.
It's in total reversal.
This is a good time to take a break.
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9-7-2 Patriot Welcome back, and we're back with John Solomon, and he's taking us through the major revelations that he's brought about since the election of 2020.
I guess the most recent one and the most startling one is that in Georgia, in Fulton County, a report existed a week or so after the election that raised, what was it, 50 or so irregularities, illegalities with the election.
One we never knew about.
While the Georgia officials were saying the election was perfect, of course it was far from perfect, and that's part of what caused a conversation between the president and Rauschenberger, because Rauschenberger kept saying it was perfect, and all the president was getting were reports of illegalities, and he couldn't understand perfect.
So, John, should we go back over some of these, or are there a few more?
Why don't we start with Georgia?
Let's start with Georgia.
So tell me what you've uncovered in Georgia.
There were issues like that, counting ballots without Republican observation, which is clearly illegal in Georgia.
I think that actually says you have to count the ballots in public.
That's right.
No, listen, there's no doubt that the rules were not followed in Fulton County, so much so that since the election, The state has pretty much forced out every supervisor of the Fulton County election, and the state elections board is considering taking a dramatic action before this fall's election of possibly putting Fulton County into state receivership, meaning local officials will not run the elections in Atlanta.
They'll be turned over to the state.
Why is that?
Because Brad Rauschenberger sent a personal observer to the election center, the vote counting center in Atlanta
on November 3rd, 2020. It was the first time it had ever been done in the state. That observer
wrote a, I think it's 23 or 27 page report with dozens and dozens of irregularities being
recorded.
It was like a diary.
You won't believe this person just did that.
This person did this.
Things like double scanning ballots, moving ballots insecurely in shopping carts where they could be picked off, having the personal information of voters being exposed while they were being counted, which is a violation of voter privacy.
The irregularities literally take up two dozen pages of a report.
Brad Rauschenberger had that report.
I actually went back through all the news clips of November 3rd.
Here's a funny thing, because everybody remembers Brad Rauschenberger's January 6th, or whatever day it was, on 60 Minutes, calling it the perfect election.
On election night, he was going bananas, saying there's all sorts of bad things going on in Fulton County.
I'm upset.
Now how he evolved from that moment to the different story on January is one that he hasn't been able to explain.
I've interviewed him several times and here's what he said.
Yes, Fulton County was a problem.
It's been a problem for years and it was really bad this time and I'm starting the process of putting him into receivership, but I don't think what happened there would have changed the outcome.
Now that's a very different story than what he gave 60 Minutes.
Sure.
It doesn't really matter.
If he thinks or doesn't think it affects the outcome, because you only find out if it affects the outcome after you count the votes.
That's right.
You can't possibly know when you start if it affects the outcome.
The report you're talking about is public.
I mean, you can get it online.
Yes, it's on Just the News.
We have it there.
That's the one that I have.
It's a very large... Carter Jones is the guy who wrote it.
Yeah, I read through it.
If you ask me, is there enough there to affect the election, my guess would be it's so much yes, but to do that I would have to go through and start doing a count.
Then I'd have to figure out what county it was in.
You can figure if votes in Fulton County are being deducted, well then Trump is gaining about plus six votes on every tenth.
Because I think it was pretty close to 75, 25, 80, depending on the 80, 20.
It's about a 70% Democratic county, it is.
Yeah.
But if it's a county that's very, very close, like some in Arizona, maybe only gain one vote for every 10.
So it is hard to find out if it affects the outcome.
But election fraud is prosecuted.
No matter who wins or loses an election, it's a crime.
It's called a crime.
We're the greatest democracy in the world.
There is no reason we can't count votes correctly.
We can do this.
We put a man on the moon.
Count voting regularly is much easier than doing that.
There's just not been a will or a way in these democratic urban areas to fix these problems.
These problems have been around a long time, and 2020 brought them to a head.
I want to bring out another favorite character of the president, Governor Brian Kemp.
Before you do, let me ask you why Rafzenberger didn't turn that report over until it was useless.
Yeah, I got it under FOIA.
I don't know the reason.
You know, it existed.
It had been in these files.
And right after I reported it, I mean, within days of me reporting the existence and the contents of that report, he started the process of putting Fulton County into state leadership.
It clearly had an impact once it became public.
Too bad it didn't become public before January 6th.
But I mean, that was a year later.
Yeah, yeah.
It was eight or nine months later.
You're right, sir.
It was.
And it was after Afghanistan.
Yeah, it was right in that time frame.
I think it might have been just before, right as Afghanistan was falling apart.
What I'm talking about is, if it does affect the election, and one or two more of them do, then we don't have a Biden as president.
Well, you look at Wisconsin, but let's stay in Georgia for a second because I don't think a lot of people know this.
Governor Kemp.
He's another one of those guys that's been saying, the election's perfect.
The election's perfect.
I, last summer, I did two things.
I accessed all of the absentee ballots in Fulton County and I went through each image.
It took me five, 10 days to go through about six, 7,000 ballots that I could get access to.
And you see all sorts of irregularities.
For instance, you will see people who filled out the president for two people, one Donald Trump, one for Joe Biden.
That's called a spoiled ballot.
Under Georgia law, it's supposed to be thrown out.
Right.
Someone would come in and say, no, no, no, that wasn't for Donald Trump.
That's for Joe Biden.
They would count the spoiled ballot.
That is not in question.
I put those images up.
People can see those being counted.
Now, there's only a few hundred, several hundred that way, but that's just one example.
But here's another thing.
We went through the vote tallies, and then we went through the cards that were used to declare the recount.
And there were thousands of votes difference between the two.
And I identified each of the cards, and I wrote about them.
About three months after I did that last summer, Governor Kemp, yes, that Governor Kemp, the one who says everything was perfect, he sent a complaint to the State Elections Board.
He doesn't mention me.
He mentions the citizen that I worked with on this.
And he said, There's thousands of votes that are different on the cards than they are in the ballot tallies.
These are miscounts.
Please investigate that.
So even Brian Kemp, clearly Brad Raffsenberger, Now know that there were serious problems in Fulton County.
I dare you to find anyone in the mainstream media that's covered it.
They've ignored this because they can't allow that story from November.
This is an amazing story.
Total surprise.
Complete reversal of what was going on during the election.
But if you could explain the second one a little bit better.
There were thousands of votes.
The card was different than the ballot.
Yeah, so there are the ballot tallies.
Are these mail-in votes we're talking about?
Well, all tallies, machine tallies.
So it's everything.
It's everything that went through the machines, whether it was absentee or direct vote.
And there's one tally, then there's the card that's used to do the recount, right?
So someone puts the number on the recount.
And there were, in some cases, multiple, I think there was one that was, it's very much like the one you mentioned, like 90 to 6 for Trump.
And I think there was one where the same votes were counted three times for Biden, which gave him like four or five hundred more votes.
When you take a look at all the mathematical errors, and that's what Governor Kemp ultimately called them, it's what I call them in my story, it's several thousand votes, three, four thousand votes that are different than what was counted in the recount and the canvas, whatever you want to call that, the re-canvas.
Governor Kemp, people can go get that letter.
He admits that in his own letter.
So the two guys that were saying Georgia was fine, they're now on record saying it wasn't so fine.
So there were several thousand votes that didn't match.
Yep, in the recount.
The recount tally was off by several thousand votes.
And it was a 10,000 vote election.
Yeah.
I think 12 in Georgia, wasn't it?
Yeah, something like that.
So, this is an election where if you have any number of irregularities, you're getting very close to affecting the election, because we're only talking about 12,000 votes.
So, you have several thousand there.
You've got, with the ones you sampled, the thousand or so votes you sampled, how many did you find there that were... A few hundred were spoiled ballots that should never have been counted, and somebody just made a decision that we're going to count that ballot anyways.
So, and out of how many ballots?
You know, I think we saw about 400 out of 5,000 that had that manual adjudication that looked like a spoiled ballot.
I mean, sometimes the manual adjudication was correct.
It was, the ballot was what they ultimately counted and the machine just didn't see the marking right.
But there are four or 500 that are legitimately in question and would have met the definition of spoiled, meaning they should have been sent back and not counted until the person refilled out the ballot.
And that didn't happen.
And so, you know, that's just in one county with one reporter doing it.
Imagine what people could do if all of these were opened up across Georgia.
We'd probably find some more things.
It's now time to take a short break.
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Welcome back to our interview with John Solomon.
But if you look at the pattern of irregularities, they were concentrated in several cities,
all over the country.
The cities they were concentrated in were Democrat really owned cities with a good long history of corruption.
Mayors go into jail, judges go into jail.
Every lawyer would tell you, you know, if you got a political case, you're gonna have a Democratic judge and you're not gonna win if it's on the other side.
So they did it in Philadelphia, Detroit, Milwaukee, Atlanta, all of them.
Yeah, again, Democrat cities.
So now what about the There's one video that didn't get much attention.
The video of the arena got a lot of attention with the people being walked out, the ballots being counted.
But the one that didn't get a lot of attention was, it was a short video.
Again, it involved Ruby Freeman and her daughter, and they were passing USBs to each other.
Now, the president of Dominion testified in Michigan that the machine was made so that it was not accessible to
a USB. That is contradicted by the manual and it's contradicted by pictures of the machine.
What was the, did you have any information about what those USBs were for? Yeah, my
understanding, again, you're at the mercy of the Georgia people who looked at this, but they've been
pretty forthcoming in recent months.
And I want to give Georgia some credit.
Dominion voting machines were cracked open.
They were opened before Election Day.
This is not in dispute.
And the digital cards were taken out and new cards were put in to make sure that they didn't reach the capacity.
The chain of custody of those cards that were in the original machines and were taken out and not counted until Election Day is unknown.
Fulton County believes they were put in some locker or a storage cabinet.
We've never been able to get a good answer on that.
Now, that doesn't mean the machines were doing something wrong, but it does mean that humans were touching things that are supposed to say Sankraset until Election Day, removing them, putting them somewhere.
You know, the possibility one could get lost or get tampered with.
You don't know because the chain of custody is not clear.
That is documented.
Fulton County has admitted that.
I mean, there are lots of things that we could get right in five minutes.
They admitted it after Biden became president of the United States.
Actually, we got those in December, which was shortly before the certification, so December 2020.
But, you know, there were so many things coming out, I'm not sure they got the attention they merit.
But today, those things are well known and they're well documented.
Most people don't know that because nothing about Dominion is ever reported.
Because the major networks, Fox, even Newsmax are afraid to mention the name Dominion because they effectuated a prior restraint by suing everyone.
So there were three dozen machines that were broken open, Dominion machines that were broken open, so they could be allowed to count over 10,000.
Yeah.
So there was a worry.
And you know, that's a legitimate thing.
There was a high turnout.
So you want to make sure that the machines can't stop counting.
But there was no chain of custody thought about, at least not in the documents and the interviews we did at the time.
And it's just one of many things that, you know, when you hear a perfect election, that's not a perfect way.
That is not a common sense way.
to handle people's St. Croissant votes. And again, that's nothing to do with Dominion.
That has to do with the people running these elections. And I think at the end of the day,
human error, human malfeasance, in the case of the hackers or other things that we've seen,
the nursing home in Arizona, which is, you know, another one of those urban centers,
right? Phoenix, that you always, people worry about.
Well, but before we get off that one, so there were, was this in Fulton County,
that these machines were broken?
Yes, they were Fulton County.
So it seems like all of the illegalities and irregularities are concentrated in Fulton County.
Well, that's one of them.
Now, when you go to ballot harvesting, Mr. Mayor, it looks like there are several counties where that occurred.
So there is a complaint that was filed in November, a year after the election, right?
So a year later.
And there appear to be five counties in the Atlanta area, but it goes much further out.
It goes all the way out towards Stone Mountain and DeKalb County and some of the other counties where there's video footage of people coming in between 12 a.m.
and 5 a.m., not the time that most people vote, going to those drop boxes and dropping stacks of ballots into the boxes.
And then there are cell phone records that show the pattern of these ballot delivering people.
Going back and back over through the same routine, night after night, that's according to the complaint.
And there is now a whistleblower, he's known as John Doe in the complaint, who says, I participated in a widespread ballot harvesting operation, me and many other people, we were paid $10 a ballot, and we went around- Oh, that sounds like, that sounds like Tammany Hall.
It does.
Old-fashioned ballots.
This is what they did in my election in 1989.
They paid people to vote 10 times.
Well, they were picking up other people's ballots is what they were doing.
They were going out and getting, you know, someone they didn't know and grabbing their ballot, which breaks the chain of custody.
And it's explicitly illegal in Georgia.
It's illegal in Arizona.
It's illegal in Wisconsin.
I would say paying for a vote is probably illegal every place, except maybe Las Vegas.
I don't know.
Probably, probably.
So what the whistleblower says is he was paid $10 per what?
Every ballot that he picked up from a legitimate voter and put into a ballot box, which by the way, violates the law.
So remember Brad Rauschenberg, right?
The guy said it was a great election.
He now admits that there is significant evidence they issued subpoenas just 10 days ago, and they're beginning a full-scale investigation.
And Brad Rauschenberger came on my TV show about three weeks ago and said, we're following the money.
Who paid for this operation?
And I wouldn't be surprised if we have criminal prosecutions when we're done.
That's a big far cry from a perfect election when you find that out as well.
And that's not the only place that this happened.
Arizona.
Mark Brnovich, the Attorney General, has prosecuted several people who now have admitted to ballot harvesting in Arizona.
And as you know from covering the Wisconsin report that Justice Gableman recently gave us, they believed and documented that went on in nursing homes where people who didn't have the mental capacity or physical capacity to vote, someone else grabbed their ballot and voted for them.
All of those are examples of illegal harvesting.
I think when we're done, that's going to be the biggest part of the 2020 election.
We're going to find out that was the biggest scandal or cheating that may have gone on this election.
We've got to let the facts bear out, but there are real signs that that's a serious problem.
Well, I mean, the thing that is obvious already is that whatever happened with the machines, the ones that were programmed or the ones that were not programmed or The machine vote did not determine the election.
In fact, on the machine vote, Trump probably won, which is why he was ahead on election day in so many places.
The election got turned around.
By the mail-in ballots, by the ballots that were in those Zuckerberg boxes.
But it got turned around by tremendous numbers, like four or five hundred thousand in Pennsylvania.
So let's just, one last question about DeKalb County, where that took place with the whistleblower.
And he says there's more than one whistleblower.
Yeah, the group that did the work on this, they use the tactic that the FBI now uses a lot to solve crimes.
You can buy people's commercial cell phone geospatial data, meaning wherever your phone is with you, it's recording as you're going around town and after saying you were here at this moment, here at that moment, you can buy that data commercially.
The FBI does it sometimes.
They went and they found 240 people that take the same pattern As John Doe the whistleblower.
So they're estimating that about 240 people in the state of Georgia made these routine trips both before November 3rd, which is the general election, and January 5th, which was the runoff.
January 5th, 2021 was a runoff that determined Democratic control of the United States Senate.
So that's all in their complaint.
Secretary Rauschenberger came on my show and said, it's credible information.
It's a credible allegation.
We're following the money.
They just issued subpoenas and that's an ongoing investigation.
So Georgia becomes more imperfect by the day.
Right.
And that happened in both the presidential election and the two Senate elections, the original and the runoff.
And it was DeKalb.
Located in DeKalb.
It was Fulton, DeKalb, Cobb.
I think five counties is what they're claiming.
Okay, so let's get to Wisconsin.
You mentioned Wisconsin.
What have you found there?
First off, there are two rulings by the Wisconsin Supreme Court, the highest court in the state, saying that rule changes in 2020 were illegal, unconstitutional, unlawful.
The first one allowed about 237,000 people to vote as though they were homebound because they were afraid to go out by COVID.
The law in Wisconsin doesn't allow you to say fear is a disability.
You have to be completely disabled.
You have to have a real medical condition that prevents you from voting to vote in that manner and skip voter ID.
So 240,000 people got this exemption.
The courts have ruled that was an unlawful instruction.
It was not allowed under the law.
That's 240,000 votes in a state Where Joe Biden beat President Trump by just 20,000 votes.
So 10 times the number, 12 times the number of the spread of difference.
That's just one court ruling.
There's a second court ruling that concluded that the drop boxes, the mobile ballot boxes, that there was no legal authority in Wisconsin for those to be distributed.
Tens of thousands of people dropped their ballots in those boxes.
All of those votes are now illegal under the interpretation of the Wisconsin Supreme
Court. So that's a big picture problem.
More, well more, multiple times the spread of difference between the two candidates,
ballots were unlawfully distributed, accepted, counted, or put into boxes that weren't lawful.
That's just the legal side. Now let's go to what Justice- But before we get to that, the original decision of the
Supreme Court on the original case to overturn the election was a 4-3 decision.
It was and it came in November and one and and the one.
But it's a 4-3 Republican court.
One Republican dissented or joined the majority.
And Wisconsin has extremely rigid absentee ballot laws because of its history as a progressive state, when progressive meant something different.
La Follette, the whole movement.
They actually say in their law That they don't like absentee ballots.
They believe they're inherently fraudulent and therefore they require you to keep not only the envelope but the original application.
And if you don't have the original application they say that the vote is null and void.
Well, they sort of forgot that when they ruled four to three.
Strictly, under the law, those votes should have been thrown out, but they thought the remedy was too onerous.
Yeah, that's right.
And it goes back to the fact that these democratic cities and these democratic-run states Wisconsin has a Republican legislature, which is supposed to set the rules, and then it has a Democratic-run Wisconsin Election Commission, which just made up its own law.
Which, by the way, the Constitution didn't give them that power.
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Well, I cannot tell you how much respect I have for the following guest, because as a lawyer,
there's much, particularly over the last year, year and a half, two years, three years, since
the time I began representing Donald Trump, that I probably understand firsthand of what he's going
through. And And, um,
There are many good men and good lawyers and good people who would not have the courage to do this.
And they're good people.
Not everybody's a hero.
Takes a lot.
And you pay a price for it.
We're going to be listening to one now.
His name is Joe McBride.
Let's get to it.
Thank you, Mr. Mayor.
It is good to be here.
So maybe you can take us to the beginning.
A lawyer like you with a very active and very big practice, distinguished lawyer, very busy.
I can see on your face you're someone who enjoys practicing law.
You must have been really enjoying yourself.
How did you get involved in this?
How did you get involved in this?
So I was, Richard Barnett is my first client.
He was in a cell next to another January Sixer by the name of Edward Jacob Lang,
or he goes by Jake Lang.
At some point, Richard had expressed to Jake that he wanted to move on in a new direction with new counsel.
Jake was being represented by a colleague of mine named Steven Meckath, another New York attorney of mine who I work with closely, and we share offices next to each other on the same floor at 99 Park Avenue.
Steve approached me about representing Richard.
I obviously had to think about it and pray about it and count the cost.
I knew that Richard Barnett was the guy who had his feet up on Speaker Pelosi's desk and that it was going to be a big deal.
So I counted the cost.
I thought about what was at stake, the personal cost, the cost of my country, what that would look like for my career, both the positives and the negatives.
And I prayed about it.
I said, listen, you know, this is an all or nothing endeavor.
That is very much my personality, all or nothing anyway.
It's how I practice law and live life, for better or worse.
And on Ash Wednesday of 2021, I decided to take the case after I left Mass.
And that was my first case, and I've taken up several more cases from there.
Several more means, roughly.
I know you told me five actual criminal cases where criminal charges have been filed and several civil cases where you're engaged as the attorney of record.
But then in one way or another, you've been involved in well over a dozen cases, I would say, right?
Yes, that is correct, Mr. Mayor.
And probably in the nature of what you're involved in now, is this almost your full-time endeavor?
Yes, this is my full-time endeavor.
My team, I actually built together a special team of attorneys and investigators and paralegals that are devoted strictly to the January 6th body of litigation.
God bless you.
Thank you.
Can you give us an idea of how much they handle?
So I am the, I am directly in all the cases that my name is signed on.
So I'm either in a supervisory capacity or intimately involved.
And all of it.
I have three attorneys working as associates on various cases.
Each one of them right now is assigned about three cases.
So we go over those cases daily or semi-weekly to see where we're at regarding motion practice, discovery, so on and so forth.
And we're doing our best to stay ahead of this massive body of discovery that they are unfairly using against us and dumping on us.
So as to prejudice the defendants and delay the trials and so on and so forth.
You know the game.
Sure do.
I imagine you're located in New York as a New York attorney, but you also spend a lot of time in District of Columbia.
I'm very familiar with that.
And your group of attorneys are in the District of Columbia with you?
So we are spread out at different points in the country.
I have one guy who's in DC, I have somebody else who's in Florida, and I have somebody else who's local to me here in New York.
I see.
Yeah, I have sort of January 6 clients from all over the country, so it makes sense.
And trying to find devoted attorneys who are willing and who had the heart and the mind and the right mindset to take these cases out of New York City hasn't been an easy thing.
So I looked across the country.
Define the best people possible, because I didn't want to settle for anyone less than the best on my team.
I think we could share a lot of similar experiences about that, unfortunately.
And then I assume you have some assistants or paralegals that help them?
Yes, of course.
All right.
So could you give us, for the listener that doesn't know much about this other than This terrible thing happened on January 6th.
How many are still in prison?
How many have been charged?
Roughly.
I know it's about 800 plus that have been arrested.
Right.
Somewhere between 850 and 900 at this point.
They're still making sweeps as we speak.
I get new calls every day for people who are getting arrested.
My take on the situation is pretty simple.
The events that took place at the Capitol on January 6th of 2021 did not happen in a vacuum.
For the previous two years leading up until January 6th of 21, we saw all types of protests spread out all across this country.
No matter where you are in the political aisle, objectively, we can agree that people came out into the streets on behalf of George Floyd and other police brutality-based incidents to protest.
And some of those protests turned really violent.
You had good actors and you had bad actors, but those people, by and large, got a pass For their violent acts, for their burning of buildings, their slapping and pushing and hitting of police officers, because their actions and their original motivations for going out into the public square were grounded in the First Amendment.
So when you view that in light of what took place at the Capitol on January 6th, there was a reasonable interpretation by people who went there that day that certain acts with regard to political protest are permissible in this day and age.
When you consider the fact that 50 previous Stop the Steal protests took place in 2020, and all of them were peaceful, excepting the times where members of Antifa showed up and attacked Trump supporters.
So when you consider that, you have to say, well, how did this 51st Stop the Steal protest all of a sudden break out into a riot?
Well, there are a lot of various explanations.
members of Antifa without a doubt infiltrated the crowd.
They were paid agitators from all over the country there.
Police did not follow protocol.
The Capitol building itself and the Capitol complex was not properly guarded.
They had intelligence from President Trump a month in advance saying, hey, this is going
to be a serious day there.
You should fortify the facility and the grounds with the Capitol police.
They denied him, they denied that ability for that to happen.
And what we have is a massive failure in policing and protocol that took place.
And as a result, a riot broke out.
And unfortunately, many people are being arrested and charged as domestic terrorists for something
that was completely foreseeable and should have never happened.
The buck stops with the Capitol police that day and they are putting the blame on everyone
else.
It is atrocious.
So from what you've seen.
There's no evidence of prior planning to do violence inside the Capitol?
So from what I've seen, I can explain it broadly.
Sure.
That's the best way to do it.
Yes, indeed.
So there are three groups of people who went to the Capitol that day.
Group one are the people who went out to protest the election results.
They said, hey, listen, this election stinks to high heaven.
I'm going to go out there.
And have my voice heard and maybe if I hear my voice, if Congress hears my voice, they'll change their mind.
Group two is a smaller group of nefarious actors that went to the Capitol to cause mayhem and to cause problems.
Group three is the group of people who went out with pure intentions but got swept up in the greater events of that day.
So that group three comprises the vast majority of the people who I represent.
They went there.
They did not plan on anything happening, but they saw police officers macing and beating women and older men, and they got involved, they defended people, they defended themselves.
That does not equivocate to an insurrection.
What that is, is the point of intersection between civil disobedience and criminal law.
You have people there who are protesting, they're there for the right reasons, for politically protected First Amendment reasons, and then they're attacked by the police, or they're attacked by Antifa, They have a right to defend themselves, and it is improper to co-mingle or to conflate their reasons for going out with the violence that took place that day, because the two things are entirely unrelated.
And with regard to a grander scheme or a grander plan, look, the idea that President Donald J. Trump, the one president in the last 50 years that did not send America to war, is somehow responsible for an attack on his own capital is absolute lunacy.
Yeah, I mean it, you know, you and I certainly agree that this is maybe crazier than Russian collusion or the phony improper conversation with the Ukraine president.
Or saying that the hard drive was Russian... I mean, the part of this that really, really worries me is that these people who are perpetrating this are two- and three-time losers, meaning they have done this before.
They've stood up there, lied completely, and a lot of the American people bought it, even got Pulitzer Prizes for it, and it turns out that they were lying.
Russian collusion.
They're lying.
Donald Trump said no Russian collusion.
He's telling the truth.
Improper conversation with President of Ukraine.
Lying.
Truth.
You look at the hard drive, perfect justification for it.
Hard drive is Russian collusion.
Trump, hard drive is real.
They are lying.
He's telling the truth.
Now we have He was trying to overthrow his own government.
He said, you're out of your mind.
I wasn't trying to, I was trying, I truly believed that there was election fraud, deep, a lot of it, and I was defending not just myself but the country against what I believed in good faith to be a stolen election.
Absolutely.
What is involved then in representing these people?
They're charged with all different things from simple trespass to... What's the worst charge?
Hitting a police officer or throwing something at a police officer?
Right now I'd say globally the worst charge is the USC 18-15-12.
It's the disrupting the governmental proceeding.
This is a charge that had to do with Enron-based litigation.
Stealing papers and documents so as to thwart an investigation and or a proceeding.
They've used it and they've expanded the scope in many ways analogous to the way the federal government has expanded the scope of RICO from looking at crime families to looking at private citizens or corporations so on and so forth.
So they've improperly and grossly expanded the scope of this law so as to Sweep every up in this in this big dragnet and what they are doing in court I have watched several cases they attach an aiding and abetting charge and they're saying if you were in the basement of the Capitol and some guy was on the roof of the Capitol and another person was in the Senate chamber of the Capitol you're responsible for aiding and abetting all the members of the mob and it's working in court and I I can't understand it for the life of me because there's no nexus between these people there's no communication
There's no intelligence.
These people are completely severed and separate from each other.
The only reason that they were happened to be there is because they share political objections to the election.
And to say that person A and person Z are responsible for each other's actions is absolute.
It's absolutely crazy, but it's happening in courts.
The judges are letting it happen.
It is extremely unfortunate.
In our case, when we go to trial in our cases, it's going to be much more combative.
than it's been in some of these other cases because objections need to be made, fights need to happen
in court. I'm of the opinion they're not happening the right way or vociferously enough, but we're
going to make sure that we at the very least preserve the record for appeal in our cases
because a lot of this is very wrong. So the ones that have been tried so far,
what's the worst of that as far as the damage that actually took place?
So, I mean, you have like the Guy Reffert case.
Guy Reffert didn't even go into the Capitol.
He was outside and he said some pretty objectively stupid things, but those things could be considered political speech.
And when you look at what Guy Reffert said about people being here, he made some off-the-cuff remarks.
And then if you look at what Ray Epps did, Which is a guy on on the 5th and on the 6th and wearing militarized gear directing people.
This is the way of the Capitol.
This is how you go in.
He's commanding a line of people that take down the first barriers.
He doesn't even get pinched.
He doesn't even get picked up.
So he gets a pass and we why he's widely considered to be working for the federal government in some capacity.
While Guy Reffet says something that's far less egregious, and now, I think he just got 15 years.
Tell us what Reffet is alleged to have said.
Reffet is, to summarize, he said something to the fact of, somebody asked him, well what happens if we go in and they start shooting?
And he said, well you shouldn't worry about that, there are millions of us here, and lots of us came in hot.
Meaning that lots of people had weapons on them, or so on and so forth.
I happen to think he was just talking out of, you know, not out of his mouth, out of the end of his butt over there, and he was just, he was just, you know, just cowboying up, just spouting off at the mouth because it felt good to be out there, and he felt like a tough guy.
Did he hit anybody?
Did he throw anything at anybody?
No.
Did he assault anybody?
That's my knowledge.
So basically it's, he incited riot, I guess, that would be the general, they'd make that into he incited riot.
On a normal day, yes sir.
No, he was there, he was there as a protester and he said some stupid things, but no, he didn't go in.
He didn't do anything that would warrant a 15 year sentence.
It's absolutely insane.
He blew trial.
He blew trial.
He went to trial and he lost.
He put that defense to a jury and they found him guilty.
In the District of Columbia.
Yes, well, yes, they found him guilty in the District of Columbia.
He was, and this, you know, I mean, this harkens back to Soviet-era politics and even the Nazis.
He was turned in by his own son.
The FBI approached his son when the son, I think he was one week past being 18.
They might have even been talking to him when he was 17, outside the presence of counsel or a parent.
And they got his son to turn on him, and his son testified against him, and they won.
It was a wrap.
It was terrible.
Now, Ray Epps, give us the best of Ray Epps.
We've played clips of his, but in comparison, what did Ray Epps say outside the Capitol?
So, Ray Epps, on January 5th, is seen saying, tomorrow, we don't need to just go to the Capitol, we need to go inside of the Capitol.
And when he says this, people start chanting, Fed, Fed, The next day he's at the Ellipse, and when he's at the Ellipse he's saying, after the speech is over, you need to walk down to the Capitol.
He, along with many other agitators, funneled people down to the Capitol building.
Well, you know, if it were usual America, the America I grew up in, America you grew up in, the one I was educated to be a lawyer in, and the one in which I served for about 30 years of my life, I would have very strong feelings you're going to win this case because whatever the government overcharges, And when I was a U.S.
attorney, it's what I tried to avoid with my assistants all the time, particularly the younger and more zealous ones.
And when you look at some of the famous losses in federal criminal history, they're overcharging.
I just have to just be honest about the District of Columbia.
It cannot be viewed as a normal federal court.
Let's put it that way.
It's the swap.
You're fighting from behind, but you've got a heck of a cause, and God bless you for doing it.
And we'll be there as much as we can to help you.
I definitely understand everything you're saying, probably more than most, because I see this as act three in a drama to destroy Donald Trump.
And they're paying the price of these people who are proven liars, once again, pulling off an unconstitutional, something you would only see in a fascist state.
But thank you for fighting it.
We're going to stay on top of this case, you know that.
We're not going away.
We're going to run this investigation down the way it should be.
Ashley, for sure.
Now the scope just got bigger.
Hasn't it?
So you stay with us.
U.S. and we listen.
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