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June 3, 2021 - Rudy Giuliani
01:05:29
UFOs, Are They Real? Pentagon Expected To Release Report | UFO Expert Nick Pope | Ep. 142
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Hello, this is Rudy Giuliani, back with Rudy's Common Sense.
Today's episode I think you're going to find unusual, and very exciting, and very mind-expanding.
Because we're in the middle, or at the beginning of, middle of a very, very important week in America.
And probably hasn't gotten the attention it deserves, but back last year, toward the end of last year, When President Trump signed that whole big Coronavirus Relief Act, there was something in it that was easily as important as that.
And it was called the Intelligence Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2021.
It was part of that big spending bill.
And in it, the Senate Intelligence Committee put a provision that directed a committee to submit a report on what they described as unidentified aerial phenomena.
Otherwise known to us as UFOs, Unidentified Flying Objects.
And they were given 180 days to submit a report.
Now, the reason for it is, in the year or two leading up to that, very major breakthroughs had occurred.
Look, we've been thinking about, looking at, examining sightings.
of UFOs.
Oh, gosh, I mean, Nick, who will be my guest very shortly, can explain this much better than I can.
But this could go back centuries and centuries and centuries.
But really, starting in about 1947, we got somewhat serious about it.
And we've gone up and down with it.
We've had serious studies of it.
Then we rejected it.
More serious studies of it.
Then we rejected it.
There are people who accept it completely.
There are people who reject it as Science fiction, silly.
And then there are people who are somewhere between agnostic, leaning either way.
In other words, They don't know the answer yet, but they're open to either answer, and that's where I'd like to get you.
I'd like to get you right there, because that's where I think we really are, but there's a lot to get through here, and many, many sightings.
Many of those sightings were faulty, but it's like trying to find the disease that's the needle in the haystack.
You throw them all away, you might miss just the one that proves the point that you're looking for, and there have been a number of those that haven't been examined the way they should be, and therefore leaves the question open.
So I have the honor of introducing and having explained to us the American people who are, I think, probably Not fully conversant with the real serious nature of this.
Nick Pope.
Now, Nick was a British government ministry of defense employee, a high-level employee, and what his job was to track this whole, at that time, UFO phenomenon for the British government.
And he did that for quite some time, and he did it really very, very excellently.
He gained great notice, and I think many people felt he was one of the best at it.
And then, you know, from the time he retired, he's been very, very active.
First of all, he's a very modest man.
When I asked him what he did, he said, He's a writer who's interested in UFOs.
Well, he's not a writer.
He's written three major books.
He's written two novels, as well as major books.
He's lectured all over the world.
He's kept up probably as well as any of the scientists with the developments here.
And he has about as strong a knowledge of this as anyone we can talk to.
So it's a great honor.
To talk to Nick.
Thank you very much for giving us your time and your expertise on this subject that I think is of great interest to Americans, but on which we probably aren't that well educated.
Well, thank you.
It's great to have this opportunity to have this conversation because I think it is a conversation that the American people should be having because whatever one's views about the true nature of this phenomenon, there's been no getting away from the fact that over the last few years, there's been an escalating situation in our skies and an ongoing series of encounters, particularly between the United States Navy and this phenomenon.
And these things have been not just seen by pilots, but tracked on radar and filmed on forward-looking infrared camera.
So we've got multiple sources of data here, all corroborating each other.
And just to put the icing on the cake, former Director of National Intelligence John Ratcliffe recently revealed that there was satellite imagery of all
this too. And that's just one reason why, as you said in the introduction, finally people in Congress
are sitting up and paying attention, rightly so, saying this is a defense and national security
issue and we want some answers. And that's what we will get. Well, you know, this is a very, very
exciting week and there's been a great build up to it because, if I recall correctly, the law asking for
this was passed toward the end of the Trump administration, I think maybe in December of last
year. And the committee was tasked with coming back with a report.
Thank you.
To educate the Congress on what this is all about.
So there are tremendous expectations that have been built up on both sides.
I mean, let's say the people who are skeptical and cynical about it are hoping that this blows a hole in the whole thing, and they write a report saying that anyone who even entertains the idea of a UFO or a UAP is some kind of a disturbed individual.
And then there are people on the other side that hope that this will, you know, definitively prove it.
I suspect it's going to be somewhere tilting one way or the other, but not that definitive.
So I want to get the American people ready for, you know, what they're about to hear and how to evaluate it.
So how did you originally, when you first went to work or you were working with the British Ministry of Defense, how did you get involved in Would we call it tracking UFOs or making records about them and determining their validity?
Yes, I fell into it almost by accident.
I was given this job really as another posting in my Ministry of Defence career.
I had no prior interest in the subject, no particular knowledge or understanding of it.
To me, I was just told this is going to be your posting for the next three years.
I researched and investigated the phenomenon.
My brief was to Determine whether there were really any defense implications of all this.
Assess the sightings.
Judge whether or not there was evidence of any threat.
And we got into some quite interesting debates about that because there was a faction really who thought that this was all not perhaps something we should be devoting a lot of time and resources to.
But another faction, which I absolutely sided with, who said, look, if there's anything Unknown in our airspace, particularly if it is seen by pilots, tracked on radar, etc., then we should be making every effort to determine what it is.
And it's better to assume that there's maybe a potential threat and be relieved if one doesn't materialize than the other way around, to think everything's fine and then get caught out if it's something else.
And now we don't know For sure what we're dealing with here and maybe there isn't one neat solution to the UFO mystery.
We could be dealing with secret black program technology, prototype aircraft, missiles and drones.
Maybe some people say our own technology, left hand, right hand, typical bureaucracy.
Others say maybe a foreign adversary.
But there are people in government, both in the UK and now in the United States, who are prepared to think maybe this could be something else, something even extraterrestrial.
But my understanding is that there's disagreement about this.
Yes.
And that there's going to be a little bit, there is a little bit of infighting, a struggle for control of the narrative over this report.
And there are rumors that it might be delayed.
And we know, for example, in the last couple of weeks, the DOD called in their own inspector general to take a look at the handling of this.
So all is not well.
We will take a short break.
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So let's give them a little history, and correct me if I'm wrong, because I'm a neophyte, and I just, you know, get this from the books, and you have real experience with this, but the one I could trace it back to was 1947, when a gentleman named Kenneth Arnold was flying a small plane.
He spotted nine high-speed objects near Mount Rainier in Washington.
And he said they look like saucers skipping on water, hence the term flying saucers.
And during that period of time in the late 40s, there were a number of, I just mentioned him as an example, there were a number of sightings like this.
And we set up commissions to investigate this.
Over a period of years, we had Project Sign, Project Grudge, Project Blue Book, So, skip ahead to 1969.
Project Blue Book had gone through 12,000 sightings.
And they put them in two categories.
Identified, in other words, they had an explanation for them.
And unidentified, insufficient information.
But they concluded they were no danger.
Now, if there's an object up there, and they say about 6%, and 6% of 12,000 is a big number.
6% of these objects, we don't really know what they are.
Don't we have to find... Am I simple-minded or don't we have to find out what they are?
We absolutely do.
Your assessment is spot on.
If there's something in our airspace, and if we've done a detailed investigation and found no conventional explanation, and we have strong evidence that these things, whatever they are, are performing speeds, manoeuvres, acceleration, that leaves the cutting edge of our own aerospace technology standing, Then absolutely, we need to get back into the game and find out what we're dealing with.
And of course, the position of the United States government after 1969 was quite interesting, because they said, we are no longer investigating and researching the phenomenon.
And a lot of people said, well, that's not very likely.
And of course, a few years ago, it was revealed that the U.S.
government was indeed looking at this, as you would expect, that there was this program called AATIP, Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program.
Yes, of course, right.
That was a program that former Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid was instrumental in setting up.
It was then embedded in the Defense Intelligence They put out a lot of the work to contract, and even to this day, the Pentagon have been flip-flopping somewhat on their line about what this project did.
And as recently as a couple of weeks ago, they finally confirmed that yes, part of what they did was looking at What they call UAP reports.
UAP is what we in government call UFOs, and we just rebranded it to Unidentified Aerial Phenomena to get rid of the pop culture baggage that, you know, like you say, people think of sci-fi movies.
Well, we wanted them to think of this as a serious defense issue.
Well, which it is.
I mean, after that first rejection by the Blue Panel Project, there was another panel, the Robinson Panel and the Condon Report, and roughly they all came out the same way.
Eighty to ninety percent of the sightings could be explained, but then there were ten percent that couldn't, and they would, without further investigation, determine they weren't a security threat.
But the determination is not worth anything because they never really found out what they were.
So you could literally say, I look at it, I used to be a prosecutor, and of course homicide and murder cases are the most compelling.
And it's the objective to solve every homicide.
So any open homicide is almost like a torture for a good investigator or detective.
And when I was the mayor, I would keep them open, and I would harass my police department to solve them.
Well, that's what I think of these as.
These are unresolved, possibly nothing, but possibly very dangerous phenomena.
And we don't know the answer to it.
Or if we do, We're doing it behind closed doors, secretly, quietly, and it's not inspiring any confidence in the American people.
And I don't know which it is.
I don't know which one it is.
Well, I think it could be a little bit of both.
We know that in the run-up to this report from DNI to Congress, that some people both in the Senate and in the House, on the Intelligence Committees and the Armed Services Committees, there have already been some classified briefings.
And by all accounts, whatever the people were told, they've come out of those briefings quite tight-lipped, but also concerned enough to demand this report that we're now going to get.
And people should remember that whatever we're dealing with here, These things have been operating in close proximity to F-18 Super Hornets, and the men and women who fly those things don't impress easily.
But one of the pilots said, I don't know what it was, but I want to fly one.
And of course, flying very, very close to some of our aircraft carriers, and these are multi-billion dollar
assets.
We ought to be concerned if something unknown with a technology apparently
beyond the cutting edge of ours is operating so close to these strategic assets.
We'll be right back.
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Let's return to our discussion with Nick. Now, in the middle of all this, in 2009,
one of our satellites, Kepler, discovered that there were thousands and thousands of planets
that we really hadn't paid attention to before, and that a number of them, 20 or so,
because of their ability to contain liquid water on the surface,
Could have something akin to human life.
They didn't say they did, but that they could have human life.
So that gets into another issue that maybe complicates this, which is, in this vast universe that we still don't really understand and haven't mapped, is there a strong possibility that there is other forms of life akin to human life?
I'm sure there is.
And it seems that hardly a week goes by without some new scientific discovery that enables us to see out farther into the universe, discover more about it.
And the more we look, The more we discover, perhaps, that maybe there's nothing particularly special about us.
We are on a rocky, terrestrial planet that orbits a fairly ordinary star, and what happened here may have happened many, many times out there in the universe.
We may be in a crowded cosmos, and it's interesting to speculate that any intelligent civilization out there would probably be driven by the same thirst for knowledge, curiosity, desire to see what's out there.
Where am I and what am I part of is almost an eternal innate human question the moment a person becomes able to get beyond the necessities of life.
I mean, why am I here?
What's my purpose?
When you look up in those big stars and you start to realize it isn't just empty space, it's very crowded.
Those are questions that emanate and they have to be pursued.
But I thought the Kepler discovery didn't get the attention that it deserved.
I mean, all of a sudden there was evidence that there's Realistically, some planets that might be similar to ours.
And it seems to have been, I'm not going to say buried, but not given the significance it deserves.
It almost seems like the government doesn't want us to speculate about these things.
for fear that they may be pushed to do things they don't want to do.
I just don't understand what the fear is, although I think it's changed.
You must have confronted that even in Britain, right?
Yes, I think a generation or so ago, people might have been less able to handle this.
But now, whether it's through the advances of our telescopes,
showing us, as you say, we're almost like closing in on shadow Earths out there.
Or whether it's opinion polls showing that people consistently have high levels of belief
in alien life, extraterrestrial visitation.
And a lot of people in association with that think that governments aren't perhaps being
as forthcoming as they might.
But these are some of the biggest and most profound questions we can ask ourselves.
And let's make no mistake about it.
If any of this, and I say any of this turns out to be true, The skeptics have to be right every time, the believers only need to be right once, and everything changes.
And this would fundamentally change, I think, every aspect of our lives.
Politics, religion, science, technology, economics, the military, philosophy, everything would change.
What could be more interesting and exciting than that?
And I think it is worth having a conversation about that.
So, it seems to me that the big breakthrough was last year, had been coming for some time, when the Pentagon finally released, there had always been, well, let's go back a bit.
There had always been leaked video of objects that pilots, experts would say either were unidentified flying objects Or were very, very curious, very dangerous, had to be studied.
It was really hard to analyze those videos because they really have to be analyzed by experts.
But then on April 27, 2020, I believe it was, the Pentagon released three videos that go back a bit, I think to 2007 and Maybe 2017.
And they had been leaked before, so they weren't, like, news.
But the fact that the Pentagon put them out, it seemed to me the government was now, finally, getting serious about an in-depth discussion of this.
We need to have a look on the SA.
Oh my gosh.
They're all going against the wind.
The wind's 120 miles to the west.
That's not our LNS though is it?
It's not our L and S, man.
Well, if there's a... Look at that thing!
It's rotating.
N618, roger, go ahead.
Wooo! Go ahead!
Woohoo!
Roger, uh, there's a control shooting, shooting at us.
What the fuck is that?
Are you Fox, moving target?
No, I took an auto-try.
Oh, okay.
Oh my gosh, dude.
Wow, look at that, man.
Look at the play!
Look at that!
One of the problems with them is, they're very intriguing,
but to a layman, they're not conclusive.
It's hard to know what those things are.
We get some help from the Navy pilots and crew who describe them in a serious way, and these people are professionals.
But how do we interpret that?
Well, I think I would say two things.
Firstly, absolutely, as you say, one of the critically important things about this is that the Department of Defense have themselves confirmed that this is real, put it up on their own website, In parallel with issuing a press release about this.
So beforehand, as you say, yeah, we've always had leaks and rumors, but now when you can see it on the Pentagon's own website, and when you can read their press release where they acknowledge that this is still unidentified, I mean, that is game-changing.
And in parallel with that, I think the other thing I would say to people to help Help them navigate this is that this is just the tip of the iceberg.
The government, the military, the intelligence community have more videos.
They have more still photographs.
They have better quality videos.
And my goodness, with the full resources of the United States military intelligence community brought to bear on this, they have some pretty good data about about this.
Maybe if they don't still have an answer, that's fine.
But they see a lot more, they have a lot more than we see just by looking at these videos.
So I think, and hardly a week goes by, by the way, without new material being leaked.
And sure enough, every time material leaks out, The DoD fairly quickly at the moment confirming, yes, this is genuine U.S.
Navy footage.
And no, we don't know what it is.
And yes, it is being considered by this body that they have set up in Office of Naval Intelligence called the UAP Task Force.
They're looking at all this.
And that's a big change because in the past, in the past 30 or 40 years, anytime anything leaked, whether it was Photos or videos or information, the government would take a hands-off approach, not confirm it, not deny it.
Some of it was classified.
So I thought this step in 2020 was a big step to actually, even if they weren't definitive, to actually release these three videos and take ownership of them and say, yes, these are government produced videos by professional expert pilots.
Who, when you listen to the dialogue, conclude that they are observing something serious.
They don't know what it is, but they're quite concerned about it.
The first one was back in 2004, which is quite some time ago.
Supposedly 100 miles out over the Pacific and two Navy pilots saw an oblong object hovering above the water.
It was flying at incredibly high rates of speed and then they tried to follow it and it disappeared.
And they reported it because I think there had been four observers.
One of the pilots said if she, I think it was a female, if she were the only one to have observed it, she'd have been afraid to report it because they might think she was crazy.
So I think that attitude existed back then, that if you see something and you're the only one, they're going to think maybe you're having a hallucination, which is a shame.
Yeah, because these pilots, these are some of the best sightings we have, and dating back decades, there have been these encounters.
And it's difficult to put a figure on it, but I would say Both from my own work at the Ministry of Defence and tracking this subject since, for every report we have from a military pilot, there are probably 99 people who've had encounters and haven't come forward for precisely the reason that you articulate.
They're afraid that people would think they're crazy.
They're worried about adverse career implications.
They're even worried about psychological evaluation, because there was such a lot of stigma about this.
And I think, you see, I think when the government did this in 2020, putting out the video, they removed a lot of that fear, which is a good thing.
I think they, at least they said, you know, we're willing to consider these now, and you're not going to be written off as a Coop, if you bring it forward.
In this particular case, there were, I believe, four witnesses, two that were right on top of it, and one of them makes the comment, it accelerates like nothing I've ever seen before.
So many of these things that are observed are going at extraordinarily high rates of speed, I gather, which is part of the reason why they're blurry.
Yes, and these top guns don't impress easily.
So when they start, you know, making these statements and two of the three videos that are best known have soundtracks and you can hear the people whooping with excitement and things.
And again, that tells you something about what they're looking at, that it's impressed them.
Well, I mean, there's one There's one or actually two that were released as part of that that go back to 2015.
And that has quite a bit of dialogue with it, including, you know, look at how fast that thing is going, dude.
And what is that?
You can hear a little concern in their voice as they're... If I'm up there and this thing is moving around so fast and I don't know what it is, I'm going to be pretty darn... I want to know what it is!
What's this thing flying around me?
And in fact, I think in one of the dialogues, one of the pilots concludes that for a while it was following them, that it was tracking them.
So, I mean, this is very detailed discussion by professionals.
Yes.
And again, it speaks to the defense and national security issues.
We're supposed to be following them, not the other way around.
So when something's following you, yeah, we should be a little bit concerned.
And these elite Top guns.
If they can't catch something and if they can't identify something, yeah, it's no wonder that Congress is finally saying, yeah, we need some answers on this and we need them fairly quickly.
Well, this all culminated then in In December 2020, when President Trump signed the $2.3 trillion—excuse me, I have a hard time with the billion trillion—$2.3 trillion COVID-19 relief bill, in it was the Intelligence Authorization Act for fiscal year 2021, and that required a report to the Senate Intelligence Committee, which is the one that now is being worked on, possibly finished, and I guess being debated as to when it's going to be released and how it's going to be released.
But in the buildup to this, there have been a couple of other developments.
There was a very, very provocative 60 Minutes program with Bill Whitaker, and he went over some of the history of this.
And in that, he spoke to a gentleman named Luis Elizondo, who had, like you, worked for the government on tracking and keeping track of UFOs, even though he had been in a totally different branch of the military at first and didn't know anything about it.
And he had been an intelligence operation officer in Afghanistan, in the Middle East, and other places.
So this is a very, very skilled man.
And he had also come to the conclusion that there was something to this.
But they closed down his office.
And basically got rid of him, and now he's working in the private sector.
So there are two conclusions I come to about that.
Is the government just trying to stop research into this?
George, do they want the research to be so deeply hidden?
that they're going to take it from people who seem to get too far into it and put it into a deeper
tavern so that there's no speculation about it until we can be sure. I have a hard time with
that. I don't know which is the case. Well, I think Luis Elizondo, who I know, is a true American
patriot and he looked at this subject and he thought we should be doing more.
And I think it goes back to what I was saying about there are factions When it comes to this subject.
And he was, I suppose, broadly speaking in what you might call a believer faction.
But there are other factions too.
And that's why I talk about this as being a bit of a struggle for control of the narrative right now.
And you mentioned the report.
The report has to be unclassified, but it can have a classified annex.
So I think there's a debate about how much the media and the public We'll we'll get to here.
But I mentioned the fact that the DOD have called in their own inspector general on this, I think in part due to some statements that have been put out about Luis Elizondo himself.
So so there's there's a little bit of unpleasantness going on.
Is he being I mean, is he being attacked the way the way it happens sometimes when the government doesn't particularly appreciate Disclosures that may be true but uncomfortable?
Yes, I believe he has been the subject of some attacks.
Oh, that's a shame.
Well, some of the initial statements coming out of DoD public affairs even denied that ATIP looked at UFOs at all.
Now, as I say, in the last two or three weeks, that Position has been reversed and there is now an acknowledgement that they did look at UAP reports.
But you know that there's a really interesting letter and going slightly off topic, but I think this is important.
It goes back to what you said about the The universe!
When the DIA first wrote to Congress, when the news of this ATIP program came out, this letter was sent in January 2018.
They said, yes, we did this study called ATIP.
They tried to spin it as being about next generation aerospace threats to the United States, which in one sense it was.
But one of the papers that they produced, one of the studies that they did, was about something called the Drake equation.
And the Drake equation, it's like a thought experiment.
Its only purpose is to estimate how many communicable civilizations there might be in the galaxy.
Well, if this is about foreign adversaries, aircraft, missiles, and drones, why on earth would you have a paper about how many civilizations there might be in the galaxy?
You know, the interesting thing is, Nick, that in all the sightings, of which now there are thousands and thousands and thousands, some of them dismissed, some of them unidentified, some very, very suspicious, there's been no real exercise of force or attempt to exercise force.
Unless it's being hidden very carefully, if there is, and I put a big if in front of it, if this is some other form of human life, at least they haven't yet demonstrated hostility.
I don't know of any credible evidence that there's been some hostile attack.
No.
And that is absolutely a hopeful sign in all of this, whatever we're dealing with.
But you know, it's like the analogy that's sometimes used is that situation is rather like when certain nations probe fly into US airspace to to test our resolve.
You can say, yeah, they don't open fire.
So there's no overt hostility.
But I don't think anyone would say that isn't concerning.
And that isn't treated as a potential threat.
And I think that's the situation we're in here.
With these UFOs, UAP, whatever terminology we choose to use.
No overt hostility, but we should be concerned enough to make a proper study of this, which is happening, and to do... I mean, people in the UFO community, if I can call it that, talk about what's happening now in terms of, this is disclosure.
And I say, well, it's not really disclosure.
Think of this as being a full intelligence assessment of the phenomenon.
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Thank you for returning.
It was very interesting what you told us about Mr. Alessandro, because I'm sure over the next couple of weeks he's going to become an important figure, as you are and a number of other people, and their credibility becomes important.
Mr. Elizondo, as far as I can tell, had a perfectly credible record serving this country.
And the questions he ended up with during that 60-minute piece seemed to me to be almost self-evident.
Basically, we have to answer, what is it?
What are its intentions?
And what are its capabilities?
I mean, this almost seems just obvious.
You see something.
That our pilots, the people who are trained to observe and to protect us, they see something that concerns them.
It's moving at a very high speed and it seems to have a great deal of capacity, but they don't know what it is.
Of course, there has to be an obligation to the security of the United States to find out what it is.
I am hopeful that we discharge that obligation very secretly, but I think it would be far better both for People's confidence in government, and maybe even in the quicker development of the science, because more people get involved, if we did it somewhat more openly.
I mean, it's not a big secret any longer.
So I don't know what the government thinks it's guarding.
And hopefully this move in 2021, in December, when the law was passed, being pushed by a number of bipartisan senators, former senators, and also Senator Rubio has been very active in this.
Hopefully there's going to be a new way of looking at this.
So I'm going to ask you to do something that maybe you're uncomfortable.
Tell me if you are.
But since we're going to have to evaluate a lot of people over the next couple of weeks, you and Mr. Elizondo have the benefit of having a strong government background, which gives you a great deal of credibility.
And you both express yourself In rational, reasonable ways.
Tell me a little about, is it Lisa Keene, who is very active in this and has been writing about it for quite some time?
I know she's related to former governor of New Jersey, who was quite a great governor and the head of the 9-11 Commission, and a friend of mine.
But I'm wondering about her work.
How knowledgeable is she and how balanced is she in her outlook on this?
Because I think that becomes very important.
Yeah, I know Leslie Kane very well and she... Is it Leslie?
I'm sorry, Leslie Kane.
She is, as you say, very well connected politically, but an investigative journalist and author of considerable um accomplishment.
She was one of the three people who wrote the big story in the New York Times in December 2017 that first revealed the existence of the Pentagon's AATIP program and in parallel with that some of these U.S.
Navy videos.
So she has played a big part in this story.
She is very well connected with a number of former government, military, intelligence community personnel, pilots, and has written up a lot of their stories.
And Leslie is one of the people whose journalism has, I think, most helped transition this subject out of the fringe and into the mainstream under the spotlight where it belongs.
Yeah, it seems to me that way, but I wanted to hear that from you because you know a lot more about this than I do.
Also, the 60 Minutes piece, it dealt with Luis in part, but it also dealt with a lieutenant named Ryan Graves.
And he was a Top Gun pilot.
So, I mean, he's one of our elite pilots.
He was accompanied by a female pilot and officer who was along on that trip.
And he said that they made an observation off the coast of Jacksonville, Florida in 2015.
And they then played it.
And the audio is compelling.
The audio from the crew is, look at that thing, it's rotating.
My gosh, they're all going against the wind.
The wind is 120 knots to the west.
Look at that thing, dude.
Sweet, look on the SA.
My gosh.
They're all going against the wind.
The wind's 120 knots to the west.
point out to the west.
Oh, thank you.
That's not our LNS though, is it?
That is our LNS, dude.
But if there's a...
It's rotating.
So, I mean, you can see it on the monitor.
It is.
It isn't Hollywood perfect, right?
So, you know, you can argue over what it is, but then when you hear the experts talking about it, this is obviously something to be concerned about, and they go into great detail, does Lieutenant Graves, to describe it.
So, I mean, you can't just dismiss this.
This is a Top Gun pilot, excellent record, accompanied by another Top Gun pilot, and there were two others who saw this.
It goes back to 2005 and we still haven't figured out what it is.
Yeah, and these pilots who are now going on the record are just a handful.
There are many, many more out there.
Some of them I think will come forward over the next few weeks and months.
Some of them, interestingly, there are a lot of reports as well in the civil airline community, a lot of commercial airline pilots.
Yes, I saw a few.
That's interesting because the airlines still have a policy where, I don't know that they've put it in writing, but it's certainly not looked on too kindly when pilots start speaking out on their stories.
One or two, it leaks out from time to time, particularly when there's... If I were a pilot for, I don't know, Delta And I came home and I said, I have a report I want to file
on what I believe is an unidentified, I'll say it to Pluto incorrectly, unidentified
aerial phenomenon.
They might think I was kooky.
Yeah, and there's this mistaken idea that I think passengers would be somehow, I don't know, concerned or lose confidence in the airline.
Well, I wouldn't.
I'd far rather fly with a pilot who's keeping a good lookout, and if he or she sees something odd, reports it.
I'm with you.
That's the kind of pilot I want to fly with.
That's the kind of airline I want to be with.
One that's open, honest, transparent.
And it's obvious there's no doubt now, beyond any doubt, there's something out there going on.
Or it may be more than one thing going on.
I mean, it's easy to say it's one thing and we're looking for one explanation.
There may be more than one explanation.
But the thing you can be sure of is we haven't investigated it.
To the extent that it should be investigated for our national security.
And if we've had, if we have done it, we've kept it dreadfully secret so that we've frightened the living daylights out of people.
I was really struck by, right last week, a gentleman named Jeremy Corbell.
Seemed to me, in terms of public relations and Making more drama, he picked exactly the right time to do it.
So I'm not, I also want your assessment of the seriousness of it.
He released this video about a week ago, and it involved also something that had been leaked earlier, but now played again.
And it was an attack by a number of objects on the USS Omaha.
And that was outside of San Diego.
O.D., if you can write a general lat long where we're at.
The number of contacts you've got, if they force the speed meters off, you know what I mean?
Enroll to position to us.
Make bearings.
Might be helpful too.
Eyes up.
Eyes down.
7-8-1 just sped up to 46 knots, 50 knots.
And he's released clips in the past.
He released a clip of an attack on the USS Russell that the Defense Department actually credited.
So have you had a chance to look at those and could you tell me a little about his work?
I imagine we're going to hear quite a bit from Jeremy Corbell.
Sure, yes.
He's a passionate filmmaker with an interest in this, who again, like many of the people involved, just think this deserves to be front and center.
The American people deserve better than they've had on this subject.
You know, should have enough information given to them so that they can make up their own minds.
And Jeremy has released these videos.
We don't know, of course, where he's getting them from.
I mentioned earlier that some people in the system are maybe leaking a few things and that this is a sign of some of the disagreements.
But what's being leaked, it's important to stress, what's being leaked is unclassified information.
So None of the people involved.
No, no.
Yes, they make that clear.
That's very good.
And how would you sum it up, Nick?
What should we be looking forward to?
And what should we be asking when we finally absorb this?
Well, I think what we can expect over the next few weeks and maybe months, because although I hope this report will come in any day now, there are rumors that it could be delayed.
But what I think we will see increasingly, we will see further leaks of photographs, videos, and documents.
We will see some new witnesses, I think, come forward, whether they are military personnel who've encountered these things or intelligence community personnel who've had some involvement in some of the programs that have been set up to research and investigate that.
So I think we're going to see a lot of that.
When we do finally get this report, as I say, we may not get as much as we hope or expect because it's going to be unclassified, but we should press hard for some more information, more details about what might be in that classified annex, and if there's a way, without divulging classified information, of at least leveling with the American people and saying, look, this is That's kind of what we're dealing with.
I mean, even if they don't have a definitive answer, if they haven't ruled out the extraterrestrial hypothesis, let's be honest enough and let's say so.
Because if it turns out that sceptical bureaucrats just ignored this and debunked it and denied it just because of their own personal belief system, then I think there needs to be a reckoning and accounting for that.
Well, I would be very surprised and I would be very disappointed if they came to a definitive conclusion, a negative definitive conclusion, because even from the evidence available, it really would be impossible to do that.
It might also be impossible to come to an entirely positive conclusion as to exactly what this is.
I mean, I think the only scientific result can be that this is a working hypothesis that has to be examined.
And whatever we have, they should now tell us how far along have we come in that process and what else needs to be done to finally answer it.
We can't have this unanswered forever.
It's way too much of a danger to our national security and even to the growth of our knowledge.
Don't you think so?
I completely agree, and even if, as you say, they don't come up with a definitive explanation, and at the end of the day the answer is, well, it could be this, it could be that, some might be caused by X, others by Y.
I think what we need going forward is firstly a realization that these encounters haven't stopped.
I mean, this is an ongoing series of incursions into United States airspace and sometimes into restricted military areas.
And we need going forward a commitment that never again will someone's skeptical mindset cause a potential defense and national security threat to be ignored.
So we need an ongoing commitment to properly investigate each and every one of these sightings.
Well, Nick, I really appreciate giving us so much time and so much insight.
Into what I think will be somewhat confusing, but very, very interesting for the American people.
And something that we have to pay very close attention to.
And I think you've given us now a kind of roadmap to how we can understand this better.
And I hope we can call on you in the future as this plays itself out.
It's been enormously helpful.
And congratulations on your work, Nick.
I think it's groundbreaking.
Thank you very much.
I think this was an interesting and important conversation.
And absolutely, I'm happy to come back and have another discussion when there's more to report on all this.
Thank you, Nick.
And stay healthy and keep at it.
You too.
Thank you very much.
Well, now that we've heard that interesting analysis by Nick, I think by the nature of sort of an appendix, just so we know what we're talking about, we've seen some of this footage before.
Let me very briefly go through a couple of these examples, because if we slow them down just a little bit, just a little, little bit, maybe we can analyze them a little bit better and make our own conclusions.
The first one that we're going to use as an example is the group of three that were released,
I believe it was on April 27, 2020, by the Pentagon.
A fleet of them, look on the ASA.
Oh my gosh!
They're all going against the wind. The wind's 120 knots from the west.
Oh, thank you!
That's not a real IS-2, is it?
It's not our L and S, dude.
But if there's a- Look at that thing!
It's rotating N618, roger, go ahead
Wooo, we did it!
Woohoo!
Roger, uh, there's a control shooting, shooting at us What the fuck is that?
Is that a...
Did you box moving target?
No, I took an auto-target Oh, okay
Oh my gosh, dude Wow, that's amazing, man
Look at the play!
What the fuck?
I believe that was a real breakthrough because up until now, there had been leaks of this material
leaks of these sightings Bye.
There had been off-the-record verification of them, but the government never put itself forward and said, this is Navy footage.
Which after all makes a very big difference.
We're not talking about some layman who might not know what they're looking at.
We're talking about some of those skilled people we have in the world that can identify airplanes and aerial objects and weapons.
And the release on April 27, 2020 was not of new material.
It was of material that had been leaked.
One goes back to 2004, 2004.
And it shows an incident over the Pacific about a hundred miles out.
And two Navy pilots, uh, found an oblong object hovering above the water.
And it was, it was moving at a very, very fast rate of speed.
And, um, I believe there was a point at which they even believe that it might've been following them or attempting to follow them.
And then they followed it, and it accelerated like nothing I've ever seen before, one of them said.
And then it just flew away quickly.
They picked it up for a short period of time, and then it just disappeared.
And because there were a group of them, they felt comfortable reporting it.
Had it been only one of them, they said they would not have felt comfortable reporting it because they were afraid they'd be classified as, should I say kook?
But they were quite certain at what they'd seen.
And although the video to our eye, because we're not experts, certainly isn't conclusive, it also isn't conclusive in the direction of nothing happened.
There's something there and it's something that's moving very, very fast.
You have to jump forward then to 2015, but they were released all at the same time in 2020, where we have two videos now.
And these two videos are of similar situations.
And they are accompanied by dialogue, describing objects moving quickly through the sky.
And then one of them, really concerns the observers because it seems to be spinning.
And the capacity to do that is something that the Navy pilots were concerned that this is some very high level form of aeronautics that is either available to one of our adversaries, one of our friends, or possibly, although they haven't jumped to this conclusion, Something beyond what we know about.
Extraterrestrial, I guess we'd have to say.
So this was a historic point, really, that the Pentagon finally did this after years and years of going back and forth.
Serious investigations.
Then it's crazy.
Serious investigation.
Then it's just kooks.
I mean, the reality is the reports that came to the Pentagon do involve a lot of material that's fanciful.
But you can't just throw it all out because then it involves some material like this, which comes from very serious people and leaves open very serious questions.
To this day, we don't know what these Navy pilots observed.
And we have to know.
So in December 2020, President Trump signed the law that will require a report on this.
That's the report that we're awaiting right now.
There's been a lot, a lot of speculation about, oh, in both directions, that it's going to be very, very illuminating, and it's going to show the nature of this problem in some detail.
And then on the other side, those who believe it's going to reject all of this.
But in any event, we'll be dealing with it pretty quickly.
Since the time of the mandate for the report, there have been There have been a few developments.
The 60 Minutes piece is worth your reviewing before it comes out.
It was an excellent and very, very balanced presentation, both in the Both in the interviewing of Mr. Alonzo, who we talked to Nick about, who almost seems like an American version of Nick, a guy who was involved in other areas of the military, had nothing to do with UFOs, gets put into it, starts tracking them, and then becomes concerned that they're not followed up, that this phenomena is there, it's being reported by credible people,
From the video, it leaves open that it is something or might not be something dangerous.
So I think we've hopefully helped you get an overview of what we're going to face, what we're going to look at.
I hope this is going to help you to not just reject it as science fiction or accept it.
Because I don't think we're at the point where we can, we certainly are not at the point where we can reject this.
We'd be highly, highly irresponsible and really arrogant to do that.
Arrogant in the sense that we just think we know everything about everything and it can't be something we don't fully understand.
We can't reject it also because there are unexplained dangerous phenomena that have to be explained for the benefit of our national security.
And finally, we can't close the book on this because we don't want to relive Columbus and Galileo, where in front of us is an explanation of what the universe is really like.
And because the human mind sometimes can't work as fast as the more brilliant human minds, we reject it and even penalize them, which it seems we have done with Luis and some other people.
So I hope this is a new day for examining this phenomena and being able to learn what it is.
And I'm going to give you a suspicion that it will be more than one explanation.
I don't think we're going to get one explanation of this.
I know there's sort of a desire for the human mind to always want one explanation of something.
I think this is going to be more complex than that.
I think there are going to be different explanations and then they're going to continue to be some that aren't explained.
Reminds me a bit, I know it's a totally different area of cancer.
There is no one answer to cancer.
And as soon as we realized that we became much more effective in both curing and slowing down and offering more answers to cancer.
I think if we take a more Serious and scientific approach to this.
We can get very, very far because we have a lot of raw material and I look forward to this and I congratulate President Trump for signing this and also indicating that he's interested in seeing how this comes out.
I want to congratulate President Obama, who also made statements saying that this has to be examined.
It gives a great deal of encouragement, you know, to people on both sides.
When we have two people, Obama and Trump, we don't agree on much.
We both think this is very, very serious and has to be looked at.
So thank you very, very much for giving us this time.
I know it's a little bit of a different topic.
But it's about as important a topic as we're going to get to deal with.
And I want to thank Nick very much for giving us all that time and expertise.
He certainly was a good guide through a difficult subject.
And we'll be back in a few days.
And of course, we'll be covering this subject and we are awaiting the results of this report as anxiously as you are.
Thank you.
And God bless America.
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