All Episodes
Previous Next
Sept. 9, 2020 - Rudy Giuliani
35:07
TAMPERED EVIDENCE: McCloskey's Walk Rudy Giuliani Through What Really Happened | Ep. 67
| Copy link to current segment

Time Text
It's our purpose to bring to bear the principle of common sense and rational discussion to the issues of our day.
America was created at a time of great turmoil, tremendous disagreements, anger, hatred.
There was a book written in 1776 that guided much of the discipline of thinking that brought us to the discovery of our freedoms, of our God-given freedoms.
It was Thomas Paine's Common Sense, written in 1776, one of the first American bestsellers, in which Thomas Paine explained by rational principles the reason why these small colonies felt the necessity to separate from the powerful Kingdom of England and the King of England.
He explained their inherent desire for liberty, freedom, freedom of religion, Freedom of speech, and he explained it in ways that were understandable to the people, to all of the people.
A great deal of the reason for America's constant ability to self-improve is because we are able to reason, we're able to talk to each other, we're able to listen to each other, and we're able to analyze.
We are able to apply our God-given common sense.
So let's do it.
Hello, this is Rudy Giuliani with Rudy Giuliani's Common Sense.
Tonight we're at the home of the McCluskeys, Mark and Patty.
I think I know, you know who they are.
They were confronted several, almost a month ago now, right?
With the possibility of being murdered, having their house burned down and being raped and a horrible situation.
I think you saw some of it with their holding the people off.
And thank God it didn't happen, but it came very, very close.
And then the unjustifiable really took place, and that is they were put under investigation as if they committed a crime.
And it is a sign of the sickness that abounds in this land today.
A sickness that has to be cured if we're going to return to the democracy that we all grew up in and that we all love.
Well, I'll say how old I am.
It's impolite to say anything about a lady.
we'd like you to pay very close attention.
So this is Mark, this is Patty.
Please tell us, you're both lawyers, and tell us how old you are
and just a few little things about yourself.
The audience probably knows a lot about you, but just.
Well, I'll say how old I am.
It's impolite to say anything about a lady.
Of course.
We're both personal injury lawyers.
We've been practicing here in the city of St.
Louis since 1986.
We both went to law school in Dallas at SMU.
We moved up here on April of 86.
We've been on our own working in our own firm together since January of 1994 and our office is about three blocks away here in the city of St.
Louis and we've lived here in this house since 1988.
32 plus years now.
And we've spent 32 years restoring this house.
It was a problem.
It was a derelict house with no heating, no air conditioning, no roof.
No, I mean, it was terrible.
You know, 48 space heaters in the house.
And it took us, and it's still taking us, years to complete.
So I've gotten to know you and I've been through the house several times now and talked to you about it.
This is obviously a labor of love.
And this is a home.
You brought a daughter up here.
You've been married here.
Your whole life is centered here.
And it's a beautiful, beautiful home.
It's a warm home and it's a gorgeous home.
And it's something that is not just a house and not just a home.
It's a historical statement of the genius of humanity.
The original builders of this house brought in people like my ancestors and your ancestors and her ancestors from villages in Europe to do the woodwork and the carvings and the stone carving and created a monument to human genius.
Yeah, and I might add it's a real testament to Western civilization.
Absolutely.
Which is at stake right now.
Yeah, absolutely.
Which we're fighting for.
Couldn't be any more symbolic.
And it's not just, we're just merely temporary custodians of this house.
And our goal is to preserve this, not just for itself, but as a symbol of the genius of mankind and Western civilization.
And this was designed to be a copy of a Renaissance house.
At a period of time when men's genius really flourished and it's to preserve that kind of culture, that kind of intellect that we have devoted the last 32 years to rebuilding this house and accumulating the stuff in it.
Well, God bless you.
And God bless you for doing it.
And God bless you for protecting it.
And I can't think of anything more symbolic of the struggle that we face right now, which is to preserve our way of life, which is under attack, and under attack by the very people who came here.
So let's get to that.
So we'll start, you know, when it began.
And that was on a Sunday evening.
And it really began earlier than that Sunday evening.
That Sunday evening was June the 28th.
Right.
But we had gotten a contact from our trustees of our private neighborhood here days earlier that this event was going to happen the Friday before.
So we should put this in context of what was going on in St.
Louis.
Sure.
You already had had protests and riots.
Well, as a result of George Floyd's death, or allegedly as a result of George Floyd's death, there were riots in downtown St.
Louis on the night of June the 1st and June the 2nd.
The downtown areas were burned.
Historic House was set on fire.
Four police officers were shot.
Captain David Dorn, who is working secondary employment, Well, here's the thing that was the most impressive to me.
We watched the 7-11. Yeah, we did. All over America we watched it.
And we also watched something else very significant and that is the police
taking little or no action to stop it, which to me as the mayor of America's largest city at one time was beyond
shocking.
Well, here's the thing that was the most impressive to me.
We were watching a live TV feed from the room directly above where we're sitting here and from a helicopter and
we see the 7-11, which is one of the few, you know, vital businesses in that part of downtown St.
Louis.
Two blocks from the police headquarters.
Somebody breaks out the front windows.
No cops.
Somebody starts looting and then the windows come out and everybody starts looting.
They clean the place out.
Then somebody starts a fire inside.
The fire starts to burn and engulfs the whole building.
We're watching this from a live feed for 30 or 40 minutes.
And nothing was done about it.
The building is completely engulfed in flames and then starts to collapse.
No fire truck.
No policemen.
We were told later that the rioters had surrounded the street to keep fire trucks and police away.
And we're thinking... The fire trucks can't drive through rioters?
Did not.
Not in my city.
And we're saying, holy, holy, you know what?
If this comes to our house, we're all on our own.
There's nobody going to be there to protect you.
The cops aren't going to do it.
The fire department is not going to do it.
No one is going to protect us but ourselves.
And so when we got the heads up from our neighborhood association, That they were going to do this protest the Friday before it really happened.
We staged fire extinguishers around the house because what they like to do is burn things.
And we have some things here we wouldn't like to have burned.
And staged guns to protect ourselves because we also wouldn't like to get killed.
And then it didn't happen that Friday.
Let's just go back for a moment.
Your state of mind at this point is frightened.
Oh, God, yeah.
It's not as if this were a neutral situation.
You have been watching cities in other parts of America burning.
Oh, absolutely.
You've seen murders taking place.
Oh, yeah.
Four police officers shot here, one executed, really, Captain Dorn.
You saw buildings burned down and places looted and the police non-existent, almost as if it was permitted by the city, if not invited by the city.
And you knew you wouldn't get any help.
Absolutely.
You knew it, for sure.
Absolutely.
One of the most shocking things you see in the videos of the riots in downtown St.
Louis and Minneapolis and everywhere else, The rioters are taking selfies of themselves.
They're not concerned about about Retribution or getting arrested or going to prison.
They're taking pictures of themselves committing felonies Up to the state of murder as in the case of Captain Doran taking selfies of themselves and proud of it This is this is a state of our government where you don't do crime and hope to get away with it You do crime and advertise it because you know, you're not gonna have to pay the penalty And were you aware of the groups that were involved, the several groups that were involved, the Black Lives Matter and the Antifa and their background?
Yes, and we knew.
We didn't know as much about it then as we do now, unfortunately.
But we knew that Black Lives Matter was an avowed Marxist organization and that the Antifa was mostly white anarchists and revolutionaries.
There's an entity in St.
Louis, though, that we didn't know about called Expect Us.
And Expect Us is a movement headed by, amongst other things, a young lady named Cori Bush and a man named Rashid Aldrich, who's a state representative.
And Cori Bush has now just been elected our United States representative for the First District of Missouri.
But this organization proclaims publicly that they don't want peaceful protests, that they don't like that term.
They have no intention of being peaceful.
They want to be violent.
They want to break laws.
Rashid said the day after our event, first event, that yes, they knew they were going to have to break laws, and it's important to break laws in order to send their message.
And these are the people that lead the local entity that was confronting us.
And the congresswoman is named?
Cori Bush.
And she was just elected to the United States Congress, I assume, to join the illustrious squad.
Yeah, exactly.
I saw a picture of her on her video jumping up and down because she had just gotten a call from one of the squads saying, oh, I'm part of the squad now, jumping up and down.
So basically this group represents some form of violent overthrow.
Exactly.
Cori Bush, and I'm jumping ahead, but on the second event on July the 3rd when they came back to burn the house and to kill us, which is what they stated to us is that they had every intention of coming to this house to burn it and to kill us.
Cori Bush was standing outside the wall 70 feet from here with a megaphone repeating, chanting, you can't stop the revolution.
The revolution.
She won the Democrat primary for the 1st District of Missouri and that's the same as winning the general election because there aren't any Republican voters in the 1st District of Missouri.
So, you're warned that there's going to be a demonstration and a dangerous one.
You know that it could be really dangerous because of what you've seen.
Oh yeah.
I'm sorry, you wanted to add?
Yeah, there's a nice area just two blocks from here where it's not downtown, it's a nice little area where it's coffee shops and restaurants and little shops, boutiques.
And that whole area had been decimated too.
It was all boarded up, it had been attacked and spray-painted, you know, over the course of three weeks and it was essentially probably 70, 80 percent of those streets were just boarded up.
And just as an example, there's a pharmacy down there that we use two blocks from our office, block and a half from our office.
It got broken into three times and I was talking to the owner and he said, when the alarm went off the first time, I said, did you come down here and try to protect your shop?
He said, no, I didn't want to get killed.
He said, but the looters were in the shop for six hours and the police showed up 10 hours after the alarm went off.
And they even pried up those doors, those big steel roll-up doors.
I think this would be a very good time to take a break.
I couldn't believe we were evicted from our home that we didn't even sell.
Those are the words of a homeowner, Deborah, when she learned she was the victim of home title fraud.
It's a devastating crime that can cost you your home.
And title fraud is not covered by insurance or common identity theft services.
The only folks to trust, that I know of, to protect your home's title is Home Title Lock.
Cyberthieves have discovered the titles to our homes are kept online.
They forge your name on your deed, stating you sold your home, and they refile as the new owner.
In Debra's case, she didn't even know she was a victim until the eviction notice arrived in her mail.
Home Title Lock protects you and your home by putting a virtual barrier around your home's title.
The instant they detect tampering, they mobilize to shut it down.
Go online to hometitlelock.com and register your address to see if you're already a victim and don't know it.
Then use code Rudy.
That's me.
Thank you very much for joining us.
So we now get to the 28th.
Yes.
You were going to have dinner with your daughter that night.
That's right.
And I'd asked her to stop off at the grocery store which is one block south of here and on the other side of Kings Highway to get some stuff from dinner.
And as she was doing that, I heard a big commotion out on Kings Highway.
I heard the riots starting.
Out the front of the house, through the gate, looked down the street, saw the crowd forming down on Kings Highway and Maryland.
So this is south of you?
South of us.
But coming toward you?
Well, right then there was just staging.
They weren't going anywhere.
A large number of people?
A large, large crowd.
And you heard loud noises?
I assume you couldn't make out exactly what they were saying.
No.
You heard loud noises?
Loud noises.
And so I called up our daughter on the cell phone to see if she had gotten out of the store before the crowd blocked the road.
And she said she had.
So then I come back in the house and on the issue of whether or not that gate was locked or not, this is really the first time this has been expressly said by us since I've just been out there.
I pulled the gate closed, it locks automatically.
There was no question that gate was closed.
So you made sure it was locked?
I made sure it was locked.
It wasn't ajar as the liars have said?
No, it was not ajar.
The way the gate's set up, and this is significant, it's a point that everybody's overlooked.
It's a set of batwing gates.
One side opens on a hinge, the other side is staked to the ground permanently.
It's got a lock that locks the stake so it cannot open.
So anytime you see that passageway open, With no gate visible.
That can't happen unless the north half of that gate has been broken away.
Because it does not open.
Okay?
So tell us what... You now talk to your daughter.
Your daughter is coming back.
You're getting dinner ready?
Getting your dinner ready.
I was going to have a... So you're going to be outside on your patio where you have a view.
On Kings Highway.
People will see some of this up on the screen.
Where you have a view of the gate.
That they eventually, or very quickly, are going to break open and come in.
And so we're kind of standing up on the porch and the sound starts to recede.
And we think they're going south on Kings Highway.
We think that's a good thing.
Then the sound starts to build.
So you thought they went past you?
We thought they were going the other direction.
We thought they're going to go down to Lindell Boulevard and then go west and then up to where the mayor's house is.
But instead, now the sound starts to build louder and louder and louder.
We've got screaming and chanting and drum beats.
And then we start seeing a trickle of people come past the gate.
No cars going down Kings Highway.
Kings Highway is always very busy.
This was closed to accommodate the rioters.
That's right.
The police had closed down the street to allow the rioters to come by.
I think at this point we were well past protest.
You stopped using the euphemism.
Several murders, burning of buildings, destruction of property, destruction of millions of dollars of businesses.
All of a sudden, Kings Highway fills from wall to wall, as far as we can see, with an angry mob screaming, shouting, looking like they're out of control.
And as they approach the gate on Kings Highway, we see that there's no security.
We've got one private security guard that patrols these two streets, and he's not there.
There's no city police out on the gate.
And now we see hundreds of people coming by, and we say, God, I hope they Don't come in.
All of a sudden, the gate bursts open.
And just, it seemed like everybody... So you actually see it.
Oh yeah.
Pushed open.
Oh yeah.
Pushed through.
How long did that take?
A second, tenth of a second.
How many people pushed through?
Seemingly everybody in the Western Hemisphere.
But a large number.
A large number of people.
And there was, again, you'll see some pictures of this, a very fat man that seemed to be, once they got it open, guiding them through.
That's right.
He's quite a large man.
Were they all, most of them, pretty large people?
A lot of them, a lot of them could have been watchers, you know.
At least fat.
But there were also, you know, there were several categories of people in retrospect.
All I saw was an angry mob that I thought was going to kill me at the time.
And what were they yelling at this point?
Well, they're yelling the standard slogans, Black Lives Matter, No Justice, No Peace, Whose Streets, Our Streets.
But then they're also... And the insignia they had on, that at least I saw from the Pictures you have are Black Lives Matter, you had people in red with a hammer and sickle indicating Communist Party, Black Lives Matter, Antifa, black stuff on, and then assorted other people.
Yeah, and there were people that were hardcore rioters, there were just mindless hangers-on, you know, a lot of young women that thought they were, I don't know, confused and thinking this was a social justice thing, and then a whole bunch of Black Lives Matter people, African Americans in their Black Lives Matter t-shirts.
But all I saw at the time, I mean, this is all retrospect looking at the videos, all I saw at the time... Yeah, you just saw people that were coming in there, and you thought they were coming to... Kill us.
Burn the house.
No question in your mind.
No question.
And they were hysterical.
I mean, you can't appreciate the flailing arms, screaming, spittle cut.
Even at a distance, you could see that they were enraged.
How did you feel, Patty?
What was the emotional reaction?
It's just shocking.
It never occurred to me that they would come in the gate.
And then when they're coming in where they're like falling in like lemmings and just coming further and further and more and more people and you just you can't believe this.
Have you ever been frightened like that before?
Never.
How about you?
No I just from the from the very get-go from the minute the gate was breached I thought that no matter what we did we were going to end up dead that there was just no way to survive that situation that that Because we weren't going to just lay down and let him destroy the house.
Why didn't you go upstairs and lock yourself in the bedroom?
Because I don't like burning indoors.
Some idiot on a British TV show said, why didn't you just go inside and film them on your cell phone?
I said, would you rather have 300 people setting fires inside your house and killing you, or would you rather try to keep them outside?
And we'd made a decision earlier.
What you told them is they would have burned the house down and therefore they would have burned the cell phone.
And you wouldn't have any footage of it.
It was exactly my response.
And she said, well, how do you know that that would have happened?
I said, well... This wasn't Piers Morgan, was it?
Yeah, it was a Piers Morgan show, but it was some other host that morning.
Oh, they have people with his low IQ on the show with him?
Yeah, exactly.
Oh my goodness.
We'll take a short break and we'll be right back with the McCloskeys.
Here where I live in New York City, you see people wearing these more and more as they commute.
They're earbuds from Raycon.
When commuting, you'll see them all over the city.
But they're great to wear right now, from home, on video conference calls, or when you're exercising, or you're watching this video podcast, or if you want to listen to music.
You just put them in, hit the music, And I'm listening to Bocelli's Conte Partero.
You can listen to your favorite music.
Raycon earbuds are really comfortable to wear, because they connect by Bluetooth seamlessly, and you're not having to untangle all these headphone wires.
The first time you listen to your favorite music, whether it's opera or something else, you're going to be amazed at how good the sound comes from this little thing.
What Raycon has done is truly amazing.
You get six hours of playing time between charges.
And when you pop them back into the box, it charges efficiently and very, very quickly.
And they're not that expensive.
You're going to save a lot of money on these.
But I said, you know, if we weren't out there, you'd be attending my wake right now.
I wouldn't be addressing the British Empire.
them now. You're going to really enjoy them. Thank you.
Thank you very much for coming back and we'll continue our interview with the McCoskey's.
But I said, you know, if we weren't out there, you'd be you'd be attending my wake right
now. I wouldn't be I wouldn't be addressing the British Empire.
So you you at some point now stand up, walk over to sort of the porch there, the little
porch where you get a better view of the people coming in.
And you say something to them.
First thing I say is, this is private property.
You're unarmed at this point.
Unarmed.
I say, get the hell out of my neighborhood.
This is private property.
The words private property inflame them.
That's really amazing.
Because the contention here is that for maybe eight or ten years, this is a planned communist movement.
Yeah.
Black Lives Matter, the three people are Marxist, following Marxist doctrine.
The whole plan, if you understand Marxism, follows the burning of the statues, the changing of history.
It's all Marxist doctrine.
So they get upset when you say private property.
That's the key to socialism.
Absolutely.
No private property.
And that's the basis of whose streets are our streets, right?
The streets belong to the masses and there's no private property.
And how dare you tell us where we can and can't be?
They weren't that articulate.
They just started screaming in greater volume and flailing more.
It was an out-of-control mob.
Could you hear at that point what they were saying?
Or was it just indistinguishable yelling and screaming and flailing?
At that point, my mind is, we're going to die.
I've got to do something right.
So what did you do?
Because we had staged the weapons earlier, I had an AR-15 right inside this door.
Right in back of you now.
Right behind me, about five feet over my left shoulder right now.
And I reached inside, I grabbed it, I went out on the way.
Are you familiar with using weapons?
Yeah, I grew up around guns.
Okay, so you know what you're doing.
Patty, on the other hand... We'll get to Patty in a minute.
Now, Patty, when he came in and got the rifle, were you still there?
No, I think I walked right behind... I ran in to call 911.
So you came in, you went all the way across the house, basically, and you called 9-1-1.
And then we'll get back to what you did in a moment.
So you came out with the rifle.
Yeah, and I stand out.
And you go on that porch again.
Yeah.
And I'm standing there with my finger outside the trigger guard, safety on the rifle.
So you're making it clear you have the safety on.
Yeah.
To show them that you're not anxious to mow them down.
Well, I'm not anxious.
No, in fact, I'm never anxious to mow them down.
You just want them to go away.
You want them to go away.
I kind of thought that a rational human being, if they see a man who is shouting at them to go back, this is private property, and is holding a rifle in his hands, the average human being might back up.
But they did not.
They kept coming closer.
They kept coming more and more of them in.
In fact, I saw a video, I wish I, we probably have saved this somewhere, some young African American ladies sticking their heads between the bars of the fence saying, oh look, he's got a gun, let's get in there.
What kind of sense does that make?
If the police aren't going to take action against them when they're beating the hell out of somebody or raping somebody, why would you?
They had no expectation you were going to use that gun.
My belief that fear alone... They are completely confident, particularly in this democratic city, funded, we'll get into it, by George Soros, in large amount.
That they're in charge.
Yeah.
And my belief that somehow that fear alone would keep them from killing us when they saw a weapon was immediately dispelled.
Just like you were sure you were going to be killed, they were sure you weren't going to shoot them.
Absolutely.
Well, in any event, you're there for a bit.
Patty now disappears.
Yeah.
Now, Patty, where do you go?
I went in the kitchen and called 911.
The lady on the other end of the phone said, I said, they broke the gate.
Hundreds of people are coming through.
And they said, well, what are their, are they African American, are they Caucasian, are they Hispanic?
And I said, all of them.
And then I said, well, that's not fair.
There's probably no Hispanics in this crowd.
And then she typed some things in.
I could see we weren't getting anywhere.
So I said, I really have to go, because I really have to go.
And they have told me that I said, maybe I need to go get a gun.
They told you that?
I've heard that.
That's what the recording says.
I don't remember saying that.
And then I walked to the front where there was a big gun there, which I knew I couldn't touch.
The big gun was a rifle?
A shotgun.
A shotgun.
Yeah.
And I knew I couldn't touch that, but I knew in the drawer...
Yeah, a Thornton Mossberg 12-gauge.
I would have frightened him a little.
But you did not take that?
No, I didn't take that.
Because you're not familiar with them.
I know nothing about them.
And what did you take instead?
I knew that there was a gun that was used in a case that didn't work.
It was just a little handgun, just a little tiny handgun.
What kind of gun was it?
And it was a Jennings?
Can you describe the gun?
Yeah, it was a Braco Jennings.
380 pistol, we'd use it in a lawsuit where they're going to go to fully automatic.
Little tiny, compact, subcompact.
Still a gun.
It's still a gun.
It was once at any rate, but it was non-functional.
And you knew it was non-functional?
I knew it was non-functional.
If you knew it was non-functional, why'd you take it?
Well, I saw people coming toward Mark before I even left.
I saw them, when he said that business about private property, that people were coming up toward the fence, toward him.
And I thought, he's not gonna be able to handle this himself.
Okay, I called 9-1-1.
And then I went out the front, well, before I went out the front door, my daughter was standing.
there in the entry hall and she said, she actually fell on the ground.
Because you could look, just like she passed out.
And because you could look out the front gate and see all these rioters out there.
And she said, my parents are both going to be killed right now.
She said that out loud.
Was she saying it to you or just saying it?
What couldn't you tell?
Oh my god, my parents are going to die right now.
Both of my parents are going to be killed.
And then she went upstairs.
I didn't know this.
I just knew.
And then she told me she went upstairs and hid behind a sofa.
And what did you do?
I went out front with a gun.
And you went on.
You have a large entrance patio.
Patios.
In Brooklyn we would call it a stoop.
The terrorism.
So you stood there for a bit with the gun.
Yeah.
But then you went over to the grass at some point.
Yeah.
Do you remember exactly the timing or is it just kind of... I don't know the exact timing.
Do you remember what you said or what they said?
Well, they're screaming at me about... And I know the language here is very difficult, but I think we need to hear it to understand the state of fear that you're in.
We're going to kill you.
We're going to rape you.
You.
Tell me about you.
You.
Yes, me.
And we're going to take that gun and shove it up your...
You're a cunt.
You're a bitch.
You're... Lots of things.
Lots of... And they were coming closer toward me.
What made you go from the entrance porch to the grass where you were... How far from the ultimate?
Ten feet?
Eight feet?
Eight feet?
Ten feet?
Would you say about that?
And they would keep coming toward you.
And they were coming toward at such a rate that I was moving the gun like this, saying, everybody stay back.
You think football, like about three yards?
Yeah.
Three yards?
Four yards?
Five yards?
It's probably... So you're a football fan, right?
No, I'm not a football fan.
Oh, you're not?
Well, I think football when I do distance.
About three...
A human body?
A human body?
I think it's probably 28 feet or something from our low wall here to the sidewalk.
And she was more than halfway to the sidewalk from the wall.
So 12 feet?
Yeah, something like that.
And they were coming towards her.
When I first saw her out there in front of me... 12 feet?
Yeah.
And you had a gun that doesn't work.
Yeah.
No, but I thought that they thought that it would.
But they were yelling at you.
They still kept coming.
But I thought I was trying to kill you.
They said they were going to rape you.
Yeah.
Did they say they were going to kill you?
Kill you.
Kill you.
What else?
They take over your house?
They did.
I think that it took... By the time you came out to the porch they said that we're going to take the house and I'm going to be sleeping in that room.
You have to understand there's a lot of screaming and yelling.
So, you know, you might only... We're going to listen to some of the tape and you can make out some of those words you can hear.
You can't hear them in complete context.
But your recollection is basically they were threatening to kill you, rape you, take your house and your dog?
Well, they said the dog was barking so they said we're gonna kill your dog.
We're gonna come in there and that's gonna be my room.
I'm gonna be sleeping in that room.
I'm gonna be getting my shower in that room.
We're taking this place.
And... And what did you do while they were doing it?
You just held a gun?
I held a gun.
I also took my keys out with me to the car because I pulled the door behind me so it was locked.
I pulled the door behind me so it was locked.
And I hit the alarm bell.
I kept hitting the alarm on the truck, the SUV, so that it was loud.
I thought it was going to get some attention and somebody else... You thought you might get some help?
Yeah.
Like from somebody else or the police?
Somebody, anybody.
The neighbor, a security guard, anybody.
And at some point I looked down and I saw the security guard in the whole crowd of people and he wasn't even getting out of this vehicle.
He was kind of like hiding?
He was sitting in the street.
He was in his vehicle, but he wasn't coming forward.
So you two were...
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
That's true.
on your own. Absolutely. And you knew that the police that you paid taxes for weren't showing up.
That's true. The security guard, I assume you were paying for, was hiding his car. Yep. And it was
the two of you and you had a daughter protect as well. So now you're on the lawn.
You don't realize at first that she's outside.
No, I had no idea.
And what happens?
You see her on the lawn?
All of a sudden she appears in front of me, and she keeps... You see your wife closer to them than you are.
Absolutely, and I've got a wall between me and a hedge, so I can't get there in a hurry, and I also don't have a clean line of fire, because if somebody... she's got people all around her now, and so if a shot goes off, I can't do anything because she's between me and the crowd.
So explain your reaction to seeing her there.
Well, I thought that she had placed herself in a very dangerous situation.
I had to do something about it right away.
She did place herself in a very dangerous situation.
And so I came through the house and out on the front porch as fast as I could.
Were you very worried?
I was terrified.
I mean, I know it's hard to recreate these things.
I've been in situations that are heavy emergencies and, you know, I get half the facts wrong, but do the best you can.
I was probably doubtful that she would still be standing up by the time I got through the house to the front porch.
Oh my God.
And you wonder, what's my wife doing there?
Yeah, yeah.
And first of all, I know that the gun she's got doesn't work because... Oh my God!
I also know that in the real world, that if she'd had her functioning gun
and it just had a safety on, she wouldn't know how to turn it off
because she didn't know anything about guns.
And so- So she was really virtually defenseless
except for her bravado.
Yeah, that's it.
She believed that by having something that looked like a functioning firearm in her hand,
that would have enough deterrence to keep the crowd away.
Maybe it actually did.
Probably did.
You never know, but you can't figure these things out at the time.
So you are extremely upset, very worried, convinced that she's going to die, you're going to die, your house is gone, and who knows what's going to happen to your daughter.
Yeah, absolutely.
So you run out.
I run outside.
With a gun.
With a gun.
And now we're standing side by side on the front porch.
And as we sit here today... Well, it gets a little bit... We've gone through this.
It's very difficult for you to remember how you actually came back together again.
Because when you come out, you're on the porch.
She's on the grass, 12, 15 feet away from these animals, right?
Yelling and screaming at you.
You hear what they're yelling at that point?
Oh, yeah.
Had you heard what she was hearing?
I could not hear it from up on the porch.
But when you got down there, you could hear, we're going to rape you, we're going to kill you, we're going to burn the house.
By the time I got on the porch, I do distinctly remember the guy saying, we're going to kill you and after this is over, that's going to be my bedroom, that's where I'm going to take my shower, that's where I'm going to have my dinner.
I remember them saying they're going to kill the dog.
I mean, do you know that one of the tenants, one of the principles of Black Lives Matter in their manifesto is that they have a right to claim your property?
Oh, yeah.
So this may very well have been an exercise of one of their guiding principles.
I think that probably goes back to a guy named Karl Marx.
Oh, it does.
Yeah.
But it's right there in writing.
A lot of our political figures and people who give them money don't bother to read that.
But I mean, the whole concept of whose streets are our streets, right?
Yeah, and this is my... I can take this house.
Yeah, basic tenant.
Of course, we weren't philosophizing at that point.
No, no, you were fighting for your life.
We weren't engaging in historical referencing.
We were just trying to... I don't know what she was thinking, but I had no expectation that we would survive that day.
We would put up a battle and die in flames.
That was what I anticipated when I hit the front porch.
▲
Export Selection