Obsessed with “satanic ritual abuse”, this is the story of an organized group of conspiracy theorists who took their claims way, way too far and turned social media videos into weapons that destroyed innocent people’s lives and tore families apart. They also kidnapped a child.
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Welcome, listeners, to Chapter 170 of the QAnon Anonymous Podcast, the Anglesey Kidnapping Episode.
As always, we are your hosts, Jake Rokitansky, Annie Kelly, Julian Fields, and Travis View.
This week, UK correspondent Annie Kelly is taking us to the heart of a very strange case of satanic panic in the UK, one that resulted in violence and even the kidnapping of a child.
Called Satan Hunters due to their obsession with quote-unquote satanic ritual abuse, this is the story of an organized gang of conspiracy theorists in the UK who took their claims way, way too far and turned social media videos into weapons that destroyed innocent people's lives and tore families apart.
But before all that, QAnon News!
The big story this week is that the self-proclaimed Queen of Canada has been arrested.
Oh, we have to put the gold fringe flags at half-mast.
Yeah.
So perhaps you'll recall the story of Romana Didalo.
This is the woman who started the strange breakaway QAnon cult in Canada.
She's not to be confused with Michael Protzman, a.k.a.
Negative 48, who started the strange breakaway QAnon cult that is active mostly in Dallas.
So there are two bizarre, dangerous, troubling QAnon cults.
So it's important not to get them mixed up, and it's important to know the difference now before there are too many breakaway QAnon cults to keep track of easily.
Let's play a game of pick-up-your-marbles-after-dropping-them-on-a-steel-grate.
Ramana Deedlo gains some notoriety for claiming that she is the Queen of Canada, saying that Queen Elizabeth II had been executed for crimes against humanity, and instructing her followers to issue cease-and-desist orders to institutions that follow and enforce pandemic mandates.
Um, they would just go in and say, like, in a very polite Canadian way, tell them that they had better stop, um, you know, telling people to wear masks.
Yeah, sometimes they would be like, I want to speak to the police chief and hand this to him directly.
Now, D'Lo didn't really have a large following until she was boosted by U.S.
and U.K.-based QAnon influencers earlier this year.
D'Lo's rhetoric has always been weird and hostile and kind of violent, but it escalated recently in a very serious way.
As Mac Lamoureux recently reported for Vice News, in late November, Ditolo demanded the mass arrest of people she considers her opposition and for her soldiers to take control of newspapers and seize the border.
One post said, quote, shoot to kill anyone who tries to inject children under the age of 19 years old with coronavirus 19 vaccines slash bioweapons or any other vaccines.
This order is effective immediately.
She also said, "Please use airports, hospitals, schools, stadiums, and other public venues to hold and detain all
traitors.
They will stay there until military tribunal is held for each one until the day they are executed via firing squad
or hanging."
D'Lo calls her armed followers "duck hunters," and they're starting to use that term in kind of concerning ways.
For example, one follower on Telegram wrote, I have offered my life for humanity and joined our Canadian
duck hunters."
Oh boy.
Another follower posted a picture of firearms on a table and wrote, "A few duck hunters
coming in can stay with me.
I'm ready.
All my hunting gear is ready.
Let's roll."
But was it a Nintendo pistol?
No, no.
It's a very much real rifle, actually.
Oh boy.
You can get that Nintendo pistol, though.
I think Glock makes a, uh... Oh, I think Travis is referring to the Super Nintendo one that was like a bazooka, right?
That's what he had on the table?
Yes, yes.
Yes, the S-N-E-S, um... Oh my gosh, what was that called?
Something-scope?
Yes, Super Scope.
Yeah, uh... Super Scope.
That's right.
Christ.
Alright, sorry, yes.
No, it's a real rifle, to be clear.
Now, authorities in Canada took these threats seriously.
On November 27th, Royal Canadian Mounted Police's Integrated National Security Enforcement Team served Ditalo with a search warrant and told her that she was being detained under British Columbia's Mental Health Act.
Under a section of that law, police can issue a warrant to apprehend someone for up to 48 hours for a mental health assessment.
However, Dedeleuw has not yet been charged with anything quite yet.
That may change.
One of Dedeleuw's followers was also arrested.
A father from Laval, Quebec made a post on Telegram that showed basically an announcement of the start of a vaccination campaign at his daughter's school.
He included the comment, quote, it's time to go hunting.
Bang bang.
No, no, no.
Police traced this post to his author and he was arrested on December 2nd.
So yeah, so I mean, it's... Things are falling apart for the kingdom.
Things are falling apart and they're mutating in really horrifying ways.
I mean, it's so bizarre that this woman who, you know, talks about like aliens a lot and like, you know, the Galactic Council and like all these other concerning things and like bizarre nonsense about like, you know, how she's the true Queen of Canada may quite conceivably incite some genuine violence.
Hello there my sweet little dumplings, it's your UK correspondent Annie Kelly transmitting to you once again.
It may seem like every time I come on here it's to talk about a new satanic panic, and strangely enough today is going to be no different.
Believe it or not, this is less to do with my own research interests, and more to do with the British Isles' unique position over a Hellmouth and several ley lines, making it a world-leading epicentre of satanic activity.
This is a very strange and sad story, which centres around a digital community of people for whom the satanic panic of the 1980s and 90s never really ended.
They insist that that historic scare, in which innocent daycare and social workers were falsely accused and in some places imprisoned for taking part in supposed satanic ritual abuse on their young charges, all really happened, and has been covered up by paedophile elites determined to never let the truth come out.
Their network is a small but odd community, comprised of Facebook groups, Telegram chats and YouTube channels, which all claim to perform a mixture of advocacy and therapy for past victims of Satanic abuse, investigations of alleged Satanists, and perhaps most saliently in this case, activism, both to gain more publicity for the cause and to help children they believe to be in the care of Satanists.
They are referred to by their critics as vigilante Satan hunters.
This is a digital network I've been following with interest for some time now due to their natural overlap with things like QAnon, but at the same time I've always been kind of hesitant to cover since they seem so small and honestly kind of irrelevant.
In the past year they've started getting scattered newspaper headlines here and there due to the sudden arrival on the scene of a charismatic influencer called Jeanette Archer who claims to have been raised in a secret satanic cult led by her grandfather.
Archer has mobilised a small group of followers to hold tiny but vocal protests outside of Westminster and Windsor Castle, where she goes on long rants about her supposed abuse at the hands of the Royal Family, who, you guessed it, are all Satanists too.
My name is Jeanette Archer.
I am a survivor of satanic ritual abuse.
I am also a survivor of our Royal Family.
Today I have chosen to return to Windsor Castle to tell the world the truth about what really goes on inside those walls.
Thank you guys.
Today I want to tell the world about what these people really are, especially her that wears the crown.
As a child the police would come to my home and collect me and they would bring me here.
Uniformed police in their police cars would collect me and bring me here.
The police who swear an oath To serve and protect the public.
They would deliver me to the evil that is behind these gates.
What I am sure of, though, is those waiting for me to be delivered.
For us to arrive.
Groups of children.
They wouldn't have known that actually it was the police that would always rape us first.
You know it!
You know it!
Free nations!
Free nations!
They thought behind those walls that the police were delivering pure children that hadn't been tampered with.
But I was beaten and raped multiple times before I even was put in the car to be brought here.
So here I am, stood here for the first time as an adult survivor.
I'm ready to tell the world the truth about Windsor Castle.
Ready to tell the world the truth about the evil atrocities that are inflicted on children at the hands of our royal family.
My time spent here took me to the depths of depravity, a hell on earth that only a survivor of satanic ritual abuse can ever understand.
The main events, and they are events, They're advertised on the satanic calendar.
They have their own calendar.
It's a satanic ritual abuse calendar.
There's a big date coming up at the end of this month.
It's called Halloween.
All Hallows Eve.
They celebrate Halloween in there, but not like you do.
With fireworks.
Masks, pumpkins.
They celebrate Halloween in there with mass sacrifice of babies and children.
Mass rituals.
That's how they celebrate Halloween.
And that's coming up in a couple of weeks.
So in this week's leading up to Halloween, do you know what they're doing?
They've got their minions.
They've got their minions out on the streets abducting children.
They've got their breeders that are bred, raped, impregnated, so their babies are born ready for November.
Sorry, October 31st.
Ready for mass sacrifice.
Mass rituals.
That's how they celebrate Halloween.
That is, oy vey, oy.
It's so weird because, I don't know, it almost feels like, I don't know, Shakespearean?
Like the way they're like, okay, and now the one minute of hate and like the whole crowd like starts to rabble on about like the very specific things they hate all at once.
Yeah.
It felt like there was a fight in the audience, but everyone was just yelling at invisible people that weren't there.
Yeah, when all the crowd starts yelling, like, scum!
Scum!
Freemasons!
Scum!
Freemasons!
Real medieval feel to it.
Yeah, absolutely.
It really does.
It took me back to the days, this is horrible to say, of, like, playing Fable when you first enter a town and all of the NPC villagers are, like, you know, calling out stuff.
I mean, it has that real sort of, like, medieval rabble-roused crowd.
That's so true.
It is a lot like a Peter Molyneux game.
This is how Jake sees all British people, just as NPCs from Fable.
Also, all history is permutations of Molly and the Games.
Actually, it kind of reminds me of, like you're talking about Shakespearean, reminds me of that scene in Julius Caesar, where Mark Antony does like a funeral oration for the crowd.
But what he does is that he riles up the crowd with anger for the conspirators who killed Julius Caesar.
And all of a sudden, they're all furious at what has been done.
This podcast is so great.
We've got high culture, low culture, Shakespeare comparisons, video game comparisons.
Well, I mean, why would you have one analogy when you can have three?
Now, I've always believed in this line of work, researching conspiracy theories and reactionary politics in general.
That you have to be careful about what you publicise.
There's plenty of weirdos out there on the internet after all, and with people like Archer, attention of any kind is clearly what she's angling for.
So it's a question of whether the risk that a group poses outweighs the risk of giving them that attention that they crave.
Initially, I thought that it didn't.
I might be an exceedingly loyal subject to the Crown, but I do recognise that they're perfectly capable of looking after themselves, and I somehow doubt our revered Head of State loses sleep over a handful of people standing outside her house calling her Freemason scum.
But my reluctance to discuss the Satan Hunters changed when a new story about a court case broke in October 2021.
The court case centred around a child kidnapping on the Welsh island of Anglesey, which happened on the 4th of November 2020.
The kidnapping had been planned for months prior, when a woman named Anka Hill got in contact with a man named Wilfred Wong to ask for help with rescuing a child known to her who she suspected of being a victim of satanic ritual abuse.
Hill was so certain of this fact that she had already reported her suspicions to the police, who had investigated her claims but found no evidence of abuse.
During investigation, the child was taken into foster care.
Hill became convinced that this meant that both the police and the foster care system were institutionally captured by Satanists.
This is probably why she got in contact with Wilfred Wong.
Wong was something of a micro-celebrity in this small but ferocious group of British Satan Hunters.
For one thing, he had an air of legitimacy as a former barrister who had a long political career in Christian campaign movements, mostly in pro-life lobbying organisations.
At one point in the 90s, he even worked in Parliament as a researcher for an MP, David Alton, who famously left the Liberal Democrat Party when they liberalised their policy platform on abortion.
As the political landscape in Britain changed and abortion became less of a viable political football, Wong's rhetoric became more extreme.
He began an organisation called CASRA, Coalition Against Satanic Ritual Abuse, giving seminars to pro-life activists in which he urged guerrilla tactics against abortion clinics and claimed that UK abortion rates are linked to high-profile Satanists who aim to, quote, undermine and transform society.
According to the journalist Sian Norris, He also states that Islam and Satanism share a common goal, quote, which is the destruction of Christianity.
While repeating a myth that changing demographics mean that Christians are starting to become outnumbered by Muslims in the EU.
At an anti-abortion activist training event in 2019, Wong defended prayer vigils outside abortion clinics, arguing that they were necessary as prayer can prevent an abortion from working.
Wait, I mean, I've heard of manifestation, I've heard of the secret, but this is new to me.
I don't know.
Here's the thing.
If you're performing ceremonies you think are having material effects in the real world, then maybe don't criticize other people for engaging in the cult rituals.
Yes, exactly.
It's like you're trying to invade a woman's body to stop a choice she made.
Yeah, it would be cool if we could just do like a Christian version of possession.
Before his arrest, he appeared on several prominent British Satan Hunters podcasts and YouTube channels to promote the conspiracy theory about widespread satanic ritual abuse, and complain about how the phenomenon was no longer taken seriously by institutions of power.
Yeah, they used to be so down for this stuff!
I mean, what happened?
The institutions won't even do the satanic panic with us anymore!
I mean, yeah, that's literally it.
I guess he was like literally in Parliament right when the first one was happening and then just lost all of his political capital as a result.
Honestly, it's I think that McCarthyists have it best.
They got it to come back properly.
Not like, not like this.
Social services, when I first started 27 years ago on SRA, were at that time doing more to try and expose SRA, much more than they do now.
If you read of some of the older SRA cases in the UK, in books like Blasphemous Rumors or Children for the Devil, you will see that it was often social workers who were blowing the whistle and saying, this is SRA, and then taking flak For saying that from some different people who were either way too skeptical or had a vested interest in covering it up.
That was in the early days of SRA being exposed.
It first started being exposed in the UK, in modern times at least, in the 1980s.
and often it was social workers who were on the front line of helping to expose it.
I was even invited in 1993 to write an article for Social Work magazine.
Today, that would be unheard of because I'm talking too much about SRA without diluting
the message and criticizing social services for not doing their job.
Unfortunately, as often happens, when the Satanists see a group or an organization that
is threatening their existence by exposing their deeds, they infiltrate it and change
He seems like a smart guy.
What's going on?
I mean, how do you get pilled on this stuff?
Jake, asking the question that our podcast literally has been answering for 300 episodes.
He seems like a reasonable guy.
He's got a bunch of books behind him.
I see a couple books on the shelf there.
He's got glasses.
I mean... He's got fucking books, Andy, okay?
Books?
He's got glasses?
And guaranteed not half of those are different editions of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion.
It was on the understanding that Wong was a self-proclaimed expert in Satanist activity that Anka Hill got in touch with him, and the two began to hatch a plot, recruiting accomplices from their network to, quote, rescue the child from their foster home.
One of these accomplices was Janet Stevenson, Hill's therapist, who testified that she had believed Hill's claims that the child's father was a Satanist after having seen some of the child's concerning drawings.
In the United Kingdom, therapists, often self-described and with little to nothing in the way of qualifications, have always seemed to make up a significant portion of the Satan Hunter network.
They were a key component in the moral panic back in the 1980s and 90s, mostly through their claims that they could uncover suppressed memories of the abuse through hypnosis and other methods.
This is now an increasingly controversial therapeutic practice, mainly due to the vast array of evidence we now have that patients can be led into constructing memories of events that verifiably never happened.
As an academic article called, Past Life Identities, UFO Abductions and Satanic Ritual Abuse, The Social Construction of Memories shows.
If they were real, the ritual satanic crimes remembered by patients would require a monumental criminal conspiracy that has been in existence for at least 50 years and that has been responsible for the murder of thousands of people.
The FBI and other law enforcement agencies throughout North America have investigated many satanic abuse allegations made by multiple personality disorder patients but have been unable to substantiate the existence of the requisite criminal conspiracy.
Some patients report memory fragments or dreams with satanic content and only after are exposed to hypnotic interviews aimed at confirming such abuse.
However, since many patients are enmeshed in a social network where they hear about satanic abuse from other patients, therapists, and shared newsletters, and where they or their fellow patients attend workshops devoted to such abuse, spontaneous dreams and memories do not provide serious evidence of actual ritual abuse.
I mean, yeah, it's it's I mean, it's the same thing where it's like a it's mutual, you know, paranoia by social network.
And it's also it's also frustrating when, like, you know, you know, the problems in your life seem to make sense in light of the satanic ritual abuse you.
sincerely believe happen to you and all of a sudden you have a network of people
agreeing with you and supporting you and saying that you're fighting a righteous
cause, exposing this. I mean, I imagine it's very difficult when you're all of a
sudden you're getting all this validation as a consequence of being a part of this
satanic ritual abuse community. Yeah, I mean, I think that's exactly it.
Sometimes when you're researching this stuff, you kind of get this urge to be like, you know, is this person straightforwardly lying?
Are they telling the truth?
And actually, I think almost none of them think they're lying.
Do you know?
I don't think many of them think of themselves as consciously lying at all.
Yeah.
Even if they're talking about things that Yeah, as the article said, most verifiably didn't happen.
But it's about how memories are not to be trusted, essentially, and can be altered and can be influenced.
And especially, yeah, if you happen to be in a network where this is all anyone ever talks about, then it's really going to be influenced.
And one thing I find interesting is that even Jeanette Archer, who's like the network's star speaker who, you know, goes up and gives these public testimonies, has admitted in interviews that she didn't remember her abuse until going through what sounds like a major depressive episode in adulthood.
Well it was at 28 that I recovered my memories.
And how did that come about?
What happened was I'd been suicidal on and off for a few years.
I lived in a flat that was on the 8th floor and I had this plan that if ever I needed to I would just go off the balcony.
Now, knowing I had that escape route was my comfort.
That was what kept me being able to face another day because I had a choice of like, well, come on Jeanette, get through another day.
And if it's too much, you can go off the balcony.
There's a famous quote from Nietzsche, he says, um, thoughts of suicide got me through many a troubled night.
Exactly.
Exactly.
That's perfect.
That's spot on.
It kept me alive.
My suicide plan kept me alive.
She's just such a contradiction, isn't it?
There was my plan, yeah, that kept me going.
And I used to have many a sort of evening where I'd just be laying on my bed and daydreaming about the plan and how lovely that would be.
And this one day, I'd had another broken relationship.
In fact, I'd actually come to trust somebody, which was such a massive thing for me.
And they just broke that trust, you know, monumentally.
So I was upset because of that and I just got to the end of the road and I was sat, I was sat in the bath actually and I was just crying and crying and crying and I just looked up, I'm not religious, I just looked up and said okay I know there's something wrong with me, I know I have buried memories, I know There's something I'm not seeing.
I'm hiding from myself.
I'm gonna make a deal.
Either you show me now the truth so I can get better or I'm going off the balcony.
So that was the plan that night.
So I went to bed and woke up the next day.
I opened my eyes and it's like there was a TV screen in front of me and I got my very first flashback.
You just pushed the microphone away from yourself.
Put it back.
It's going to have to shift on the chair.
We need it as close to you.
That's better, yeah.
Okay, keep going.
Yes, so I woke up and got my very first flashback.
Like a video played in front of my face.
What did you see?
My uncle, the heroin addict, abusing me.
Sexually abusing me.
Now those flashbacks came thick and fast every day.
I'd say roughly for about the next five years.
I got every single memory back of what happened.
Did you tell anyone right away?
Yeah, that's when I got help.
Who did you tell?
I went to my doctors actually and said I'm remembering being abused.
Now luckily she was beautiful, she was a lovely, lovely person and she got me help straight away and I was with a psychotherapist in the local hospital and obviously instantly diagnosed with PTSD.
And I worked through a lot of trauma with him.
So I was with that person for about a year.
And my healing journey, if you like, begun from there really.
Oh, it's so, so sad.
I mean, even without the ritual satanic abuse, you know.
Is it just me, or does this guy look a whole lot like the Smashing Pumpkin singer?
He does.
This is, yeah, Billy Corgan.
He moonlights as a podcast host.
He will eat anything she lays out on the table.
Interviewer.
It's incredible.
He's just like, yep, yep.
Yeah, at one point in that interview actually, yeah, she starts talking a bit about how people don't, you know, people don't really believe in satanic ritual abuse and he goes like, oh yeah, there was like something called a satanic panic or something, wasn't there?
And you're like, you're just like, you're doing it, you're living through it.
Imagine thinking, yeah, that the satanic panic was the kind of, like, the failure was that they didn't get the satanists, not that they, you know, engaged in insane years-long panics.
Most dangerous of all is the network's advice to each other on how to, quote, unlock suppressed memories in themselves and in others.
It's worth noting that in this country, psychotherapist, psychoanalyst, therapist, hypnotherapist and counsellor are all unprotected terms, meaning you can legally call yourself these titles with no training or institutional oversight.
In Facebook groups and telegram chats, Satan-hunting therapists will advertise and offer tutorials on uncovering hidden memories by self-taught hypnotherapy.
Some gurus, like Jeanette Archer, will go one step further, claiming that the very idea these suppressed memories could be false or coerced is in itself a satanic plot.
But of course!
Recovered memory syndrome.
The definition of that is quite simply, A memory of a past event that has been recalled after having been forgotten or repressed for a long time.
Quite simple, eh?
Okay.
Then we have the flip side of the coin.
False memory syndrome.
Now I'm going to go into more about false memory syndrome because it is basically another thing that was set up by people that try to keep us silent.
Satanists.
This describes... Now, can you... I want you to hear the wording here, okay?
Because Recovered Memory Syndrome, nice and simple, alright?
A memory of a past event that has been recalled after having been forgotten or repressed for a long time.
Now here, the definition... Now, Recovered Memory Syndrome has been around forever, you know, for a long time.
False Memory Syndrome was launched, we'll call it that, in the 90s.
Let's see, now listen to how they defined it.
describes a condition in which a person's identity, there's a word, this is gaslighting,
and relationships are affected by false memories, recollections that are factually incorrect,
but yet are strongly believed, mostly common in childhood sexual abuse. Now this false memory
syndrome, there was a society set up for it in the 90s and I will give you a bit more info on it.
by therapists that were Satanists.
Ugh, I feel like my mind has been wiped just watching that clip.
I have no sense of self, no idea who I am.
All the good therapy that I've done has now been replaced with this.
It's just the setting of it, the so vertical video with so much white blurred space on the side and her white gown with the white curtain behind it and this top-down angle.
I'm losing my mind on this clip.
I don't know why.
Yeah, it does kind of have the quality of like, okay, you're dead.
Welcome to the new place.
Yeah.
Yes.
Yes.
Yeah.
There's something very unnerving about it.
I actually got a little bit nauseous listening to this.
That could be the nicotine, but no, there's something else.
No, I mean, I'm with you.
I've watched so many of these livestreams.
She does them every few days or so.
But can we agree that she's mommy?
For you, maybe.
Yeah, I feel like I'm getting these memories of her being mommy from somewhere.
I think I, like, buried them long ago.
It's just, yeah, there's something so insidious about watching somebody tell you how to essentially invent, you know, whatever it is, whatever it is you want, or not invent, but to trust these instincts of memory, which, as we all know, is incredibly unreliable.
I don't know, it's just like, ugh.
You can see how people who are desperate, who are searching for answers, who want to know why they feel broken, why, you know, would You know, this offers a great explanation because, hey, you can unlock it yourself.
Yeah, and in actual practice, this unlocking can amount to little more than physically abusing and threatening children until they recount a false allegation.
As shown in the 2015 case of Ricky, a father of two who was subjected to a digital harassment campaign by his ex-wife and her new partner.
The couple had filmed their children testifying on camera that Ricky, along with the children's teachers, were part of a satanic cult.
A testimony that a judge later ruled had been physically coerced, going as far to use the word torture.
Oh my god.
Wow.
Yeah.
Torturing the kids to recover memories of them being tortured.
Right.
and I was selling them to people.
My kids are wonderful.
Sorry.
And, um... And... I, uh... I've been selling them in this satanic cult thing.
Not just... They said by myself, but by... They named 60, 70, 80 people.
60, 70, 80 people.
And, they,
they said that we're killing babies.
I was shipping them in and they were showing with their hand movements how I would get their hand on the knives and we would cut the baby's neck, drain the blood and then drink the blood.
It's just horrific upon horrific detail.
Was it abroad, you think, where your ex-partner and her new boyfriend filmed your children making these allegations?
Yeah.
Which were then uploaded onto the internet?
What they did... They... They beat my kids.
They're called licks, where you get a spoon and you hit the kid.
I said a kid.
It was in this instance.
It was my two children.
A boyfriend had punched my son in the ear and they were told to recount these allegations of what I'd done.
I was supposed to have done, as well as all these other people.
And when they wouldn't, they said, "No, Papa, he didn't do this."
And they said, "Yes, he did."
Stupid little **** to my daughter.
And...
Sick.
Those clips of your children making those allegations, some people watching us now will have clicked on them.
Well, very much so.
One video in the first ten days, nearly 300,000 views.
One video.
There's now hundreds of them all over.
According to the judge involved in this case, they may have been viewed about four million times around the world.
Yeah.
As a result, Of the spread of these clips on the internet, people sharing them, what sort of abuse did you receive?
Death threats.
Today, yesterday, still.
Comments on, you know, pedo, whatever.
I understand.
I get it.
This poor guy.
I mean, he should go Liam Neeson taken style on this boyfriend.
I mean, he looks like he's ready to go there.
You're not going to be saying that murder is good?
Not on this episode, Jake.
No, this is not the episode where we encourage vigilante violence.
Okay, all right.
It's time to hunt the Satan hunters.
Go Liam Neeson on The Boyfriend!
Okay, okay.
Great, great stuff.
No, this is heartbreaking, heartbreaking stuff.
Truly, yeah.
And just the pain in this man's face of not only having to watch a video of your children being abused, but also watching your children be forced to say horrible things about you, and then also being attacked by people who then believe these things.
I mean, this is like a...
Three-tier horror story.
Yeah, it's just literally a nightmare.
I feel so bad for this guy.
Now, I'm including all of this context to the Anglesey case because I think a lot of people still don't understand how these accusations of satanic ritual abuse come to pass, and often assume because there's smoke that there must be fire.
This was one of the resting assumptions of the satanic panic in the 1980s, and it turns out to be a hugely damaging one.
We still don't know why it is that Anka Hill became so convinced that the child she knew was a victim of SRA, but we can safely assume that the Satan Hunters do not adopt a sufficient vein of scepticism, or properly investigate these ideas, with catastrophic consequences.
Let's talk about what happened next in Anglesey.
Hill, Wong and a therapist, Stevenson, began to construct an elaborate plan together to rescue the child in Anglesey, where they lived with their foster mother.
This involved recruiting accomplices from their network, with Wong reaching out to several people he had coached regarding their supposed experiences of SRA.
At least one of these, a couple from Brighton, testified at the trial that they had initially expressed support for the rescue mission, but eventually refused to go along with the plan, according to David Powell, a court reporter for North Wales Live.
The Brighton man said Wong wanted him to hire a van in Brighton, preferably a Luton van, which has a large area above the cab, and drive to Surrey.
There, the van would be loaded up with furniture, and some void or space in the vehicle would be formed to accommodate a woman and a child.
The prosecutor, Mr. Pope, asked what he thought of the idea.
The Brighton man said, quote, His wife dropped off Wong at the station, but when she came
back her husband said, "This is crazy. It's kidnapping. It's abduction. I'm not
doing it. It's against the law."
Not all of Wong's hand-picked disciples had such misgivings, however,
and eventually he, Hill, Stevenson, and her husband were joined by three others.
The group travelled to Anglesey in separate cars with two accomplices providing a lookout
for police cars while Wong and Hill waited outside the foster mother's home for her
to return from picking up the child from school. As soon as she pulled up to the house,
the pair drove up, opened the car doors, and lunged for the child, referred to in the court
transcript as "Child A". The foster mother's testimony recounted the following.
Hill opened the car door and tried to remove Child A from my car.
She unclipped a seatbelt from around the waist and just pulled the child into the silver car after quite a bit of struggle.
Child A kept calling my name and asking me to help.
I tried to hold on to the child as much as I could.
Someone came around the back of me, which is when I had to make a decision.
He held a knife to my face and told me to let Child A go.
My young daughter was in the car.
I had to make a decision between my daughter's life and Child A's life and mine.
Oh, fuck!
When Wong and Hill had successfully bundled the terrified child into their own car, they took the precautionary measures of slashing the foster mother's tyres so she couldn't follow them.
They then drove to meet Stevenson and her husband, transferring to a second rented car with false number plates, which they planned to drive to France.
On the M1 in Northamptonshire, about 200 miles away from Anglesey, the car was stopped by armed police and the child recovered safely.
The kidnappers were arrested and charged with child kidnapping.
This was big news in the Satan-hunting community due to Wilfred Wong's celebrity status.
But due to pre-trial reporting restrictions, they had very little information to work on publicising.
The story circulated, but it didn't gain any kind of wide attraction.
This changed when Robert Thrith, a 65-year-old psychiatric nurse who had aided Wong in the plot, was found dead in his cell 10 days after the gang's arrest.
His death was ruled a suicide by suffocation.
With this news story, Wong's fans had a conspiracy theory neatly packaged for the social media age.
They immediately began sowing disinformation around the case, saying that Wong and his remaining accomplices' lives were in danger in order for them to not tell the truth about the satanic elites at the trial.
A social media hashtag, IStandWithWilfredWong, was launched on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram, and influencers began openly speculating about the reasons for the killing, publicising the address of the prison Thrifford died in, and urging their followers to take action.
But what is certain, because there's been mainstream conventional press articles to confirm this, that a Mr Robert Frith, who is a nurse from the island of Anglesey, Holyhead, Anglesey, has died.
While in custody, while incarcerated in Wrexham Prison, Berwyn Prison, North Wales, city of Wrexham.
And that is all we know so far.
We don't know the details of how he died or the autopsy report.
So this moves the severity of an already major incident up another few notches.
Whether or not this gentleman, Mr Robert Frith, was a witness to SRA ritual criminality or not remains to be seen but it's we can't rule out yet from investigations that the law enforcement agents working for occult networks such as Freemasons, Satanism, the British Crown, the House of Windsor
It cannot be ruled out as yet that he would have been silenced on account of information he knows that's yet to be confirmed.
They should have never given us the internet.
I've never gotten it.
The fact that anybody can look at a news story that is still developing, that you don't necessarily have all of the information for, and go and post a video analyzing it and suggesting what it might mean, that should be taken away from us.
Yeah, I find that video really fascinating because he uses all of that kind of like, um, that sort of journalist, you know, police spokesman talk, right?
Where it's like, is it to be confirmed?
We still are waiting on details.
We, you know, we still do not know if he was silenced by the Freemason elite for, and all that kind of stuff.
I don't know, it just makes me, makes me laugh.
Yeah it's like dressed up like this like yeah it's it's presented like it is this accredited journalist uh and you know you know not all details are reported yet like like he's yeah like he's some kind of news news guy he's just fucking playing news he's just He's playing news and he's flashing images of like occult symbols in the bottom corner of the screen while feeding you the real conspir- while he's dressed up as a fucking- he's not even dressed up he's in a black t-shirt in a closet but like while he's like playing news anchor on the YouTube video he's giving you the real conspiracy like in in text at the bottom of the screen it's which is which is like some say he was silenced to prevent you know and then flashing the occult symbols and the fucking Windsor Palace and all that shit it's just awful
I hate this.
Jeanette Archer herself released a long rambling Facebook live stream titled, I Stand With Wilfred Wong, The Children Need Us, in which she made several veiled threats of violence.
Oh no, not her again.
I'm sorry.
Unfortunately, the news that came in about Robert Frith was true.
He had died.
He was found hanging in his cell.
Now I posted that because I want you to know it's exactly that.
He was found hanging in his cell.
Not he has killed himself.
Not he has hung himself.
Because I don't believe, and one day I might be proven wrong, but I do not believe, knowing what I know, that Robert killed himself.
I do not believe that.
I believe that he was murdered.
And I am going to call it as I see it.
I believe he was suicided by the Satanists.
Familiar, familiar story, huh, Travis?
Yeah, yeah, that's a hell of a thing to put on a death certificate.
Suicided by Satanists.
We just can't trust anymore at all.
If somebody dies in prison, how will we ever know whether they were murdered by Satanists or they just didn't want to face the consequences for the crimes with which they were charged?
It's a universal conundrum.
Yeah, I mean the thing that always gets me, I think, about this kind of thing is just like how completely unwilling people are to believe that people kill themselves in prison all the time.
You know, prison's just horrible.
Just a horrible place to be.
Do you know?
And it's like, we know that.
We know that prison is horrible.
No one wants to go to prison.
But then we suddenly, like, it's suddenly beyond belief that someone would take their life while they're in there.
Do you know?
Yeah, yeah, especially, yeah, the statistics on, you know, suicide in prison are really, really horrifying because you'd imagine they would put these kinds of protocols in place that would prevent these kinds of things, but they're really, genuinely careless.
There is no sitting on the fence.
There is nothing in between.
You are either on the bad side or you're on the good side.
And if you're on the bad side, the day is going to come where you're going to be held accountable.
Because the fight in us survivors alone, whether it's me or whether it's other survivors that are speaking out a little bit or whether it's somebody out there that's demonstrating every weekend and shouting loudly.
There is such a vast spectrum of what survivors are doing and the supporters of survivors are doing.
We have so much power now.
They are definitely aware that they have got something to fear now.
It's turning.
It is turning.
But they are not going to put down their weapons and hold up their hands.
So we carry on, and we carry on doing what we're doing.
So much of this is so universal, you know, across QAnon, is this idea that the bad guys are scared, you know, that we, the people, really, you know, we are coming after them.
It's this like, this sort of created sense of empowerment against the things or people
that have really caused them trauma in one way or another, even if the specifics are not exactly accurate.
I mean, it's clear that a lot of these folks have had some sort of trauma in their life.
And it's always, I mean, that could have been a Q drop, you know, in a lot of what she was saying,
that it's, you gotta pick a side, it's good and bad.
They know about it, they're scared.
It's like when Neil Patrick Harris puts his hand on the brain bug in "Starship Troopers"
and he's like, "It's afraid."
You know, it's the same thing, this just wanting to give themselves some feeling of control or power against this perceived, you know, oppression.
Yeah, remind me of their law, QDROPS, that said panic in D.C.
And there was this idea like, oh, OK, so the bad guys, obviously they aren't arrested in a public way, but be happy because they are actually are suffering.
They're panicking.
They're miserable.
Yeah, it's like they know their day of reckoning is coming.
Yeah, because their day of reckoning is coming.
So that makes the QAnon followers feel good because they feel like, oh, they're doing something to punish the bad guys in some sort of invisible way that only Q is assuring me of.
It's the same kind of thing where it's like, oh yes, the Satanists, they are scared.
Your actions are having an impact.
You're making the bad guys hurt in ways that you can't see, obviously, aren't public, and obviously only exist in my imagination of their mental state.
But rest assured, it's happening and your actions are doing it.
Yeah, and I think that's a really necessary thing for a conspiracy network to almost work, because the stakes of power of a conspiracy theory are always so totalising, right?
So the entire world is run by the satanic elites, and they control the police, and they control social services, and they control the government, and the royal family, and religion, and all the rest of it.
And so it must be really easy for a person who believes in that to just become demoralized, to be like, well, fuck, you know, what am I going to do?
So I think a lot of them kind of have to, by necessity, have that angle that, you know, oh, but they know the people are waking up and that's scaring them.
Because if someone becomes demoralized, they just become apathetic, right?
They just drop out.
And so they need to keep that kind of mechanism going, the kind of totalizing, terrifying stakes, but also this kind of sense of empowerment.
Strangely enough, none of the Satan Hunters' dark predictions about Wilfred Wong's fate at the mercy of his satanic captors came to pass.
Every other member of the Anglesey Kidnapping Gang made it to trial and were allowed to provide testimony.
In particular, the court heard in detail about Wong's lurid theories surrounding SRA and its proliferation in all British institutions.
As a Daily Post article reported, In the footage played to the court last month, Wong claimed,
"The family court system has been infiltrated by Satanists, as well as social services. It
enables them to turn upside down the system that is supposed to protect children from abuse
into something that protects the abuser and penalizes the whistleblower and gives the child back to
the abuser's custody."
Wong, of Camden, also bizarrely claimed Satanists used social services to make money.
Quote, fostering agencies, care agencies, local authorities and so-called experts say that the whistleblowing person is not fit to care for the child.
In a second video, the jury watched Wong make more outlandish claims.
Quote, I do surveillance on Satanic covens.
They like to meet on dates in the Satanic calendar and on the birthdates of their members.
I Holidays and birthdays.
That's a club.
That's just a friend circle.
I really loved that line.
It's like they like to meet on each other's birthday.
I'm like, are you sure we're not just like talking about friends, dude?
No.
Are you sure we're not just like friends?
They perform this ritual with fire and cake.
I've seen it with my own eyes.
I mean, if you're spirit cooking, then dinner parties are pretty sus.
All six participants in the so-called Anglesey rescue operation were convicted of conspiracy to kidnap.
Wong, Hill and Stevenson, as the chief architects of the plan, were given extended sentences of 17 years, 14 years and 5 months, and 15 years respectively.
Darren Boyle reported from the courtroom.
Her Honor Judge Nicola Jones said, You knew the family courts were involved, but you thought you knew better.
and Wilfred Wong were the leaders of the conspiracy and recruited others. But all six of you were
acting as vigilantes, taking the law into your own hands.
Your motivation was to rescue Child A to prevent harm, but you all had sufficient
intellects to realize that kidnap might cause harm to a child. You knew the family courts were involved,
but you thought you knew better.
In a victim impact statement, the child's father, who was not charged with any crime,
said, "I have been portrayed as a Satanist and a pedophile."
All of which is untrue.
The father said he had a, quote, terrible realization that he may never see his child again when he received a phone call from a social worker to say his child had been kidnapped.
He has since suffered, quote, malicious online trolling by friends of Wilfred Wong and his satanic ritual abuse agenda.
The kidnap itself had a, quote, catastrophic impact on him and his child, he told the court.
He said the episode had derailed his relationship with his child and the kidnappers had shown a, quote, complete lack of empathy for their horrific crime.
Now, I consider myself to be made of pretty stern stuff, but there was something heartbreaking reading the descriptions of a child being literally snatched at knife point out of their foster mother's car, all by people claiming to be solely motivated by their welfare.
At one point in her testimony, Janet Stevenson, the therapist, even compared herself to
resistance fighters against the Nazis, saying, quote, "People during the Second World War who were
trying to smuggle children out of concentration camps in suitcases or bags put themselves at
risk that they would be shot by the Gestapo. It was an offence, but it was morally right
because they were saving children."
Oh, okay.
All right.
This is the this is the hardest part.
It's not it's not just that these people are like doing wrong, but they are so convinced of their heroism.
That's going to take, you know, like something really dramatic for them to even understand that what they did was not helpful.
Yeah, and this is it, you know, you think even after going through all of that trial and hearing from like the foster mother and the father and, you know, hearing about the impact it had on the child and stuff, you know, you still just get to convince yourself that you're just being victimized by the satanic elite, right?
That's why you're going to prison, because you called out the Satanists and they don't like it.
It's just like such an impasse.
Nonetheless, I'm not naive enough to have thought that the harrowing details of this kidnapping and the moving impact statements by both the foster mother and the child's father would be enough to move the Satan Hunters.
In fact, it seems that since Wong's arrest, the network has only hardened and become more extreme, led by Jeanette Archer depicting the Anglesey gang as literal martyrs for the cause.
Perhaps most disturbingly of all, the network seems to be making outreach efforts into other conspiracy communities, including, unsurprisingly, QAnon and the British conspiracy guru David Icke.
Archer, in particular, since she appeared on the scene only a year and a half ago, has radically altered her story from one of multi-generational familial abuse to one where she personally witnessed the royal family transforming into lizards.
So the fact that now we're all finding each other, we're all uniting, we're all communicating, we're all planning, that's how it was meant to go down, you know, and it's going to take the leaders, it's going to take the people that are fearless, that are going to speak out no matter what, you know, no matter what I mean, you can imagine the target on my back, you know?
I don't fucking care.
I don't care, you know?
And even if it ended for me tomorrow, I've done enough, you know?
I've done enough.
The world now knows about satanic witch abuse.
And it's game over for them.
It's just a matter of time now.
That we've got to just put it all together and, you know, finish the job.
Yeah, it's a purpose, isn't it?
Like, it's something greater than your experience as Jeanette.
That's, you know, that's what you're here for.
But you don't have to answer this question if you don't want, but I have heard you in other interviews say, and like, it just sort of sparked me then.
Talking about that you face the devil.
Did you want to... I've heard you say that these people aren't human.
You didn't really want to go there, but obviously like, you know, Ike's sort of work and people like Arizona Wilder and Sandra Fecht, the psychologist in Canada, talks... she, you know, helps all these abuse survivors and this is a common theme that she says all the time.
They talk about the dark-eyed people and this sort of stuff.
You don't want to have to touch on that if you don't want to.
I know that's a massive hurdle, but You know, we are playing with other realms, aren't we?
100%.
100%.
Okay, Dale.
What I will say is this.
I'm glad you asked, actually.
I'm glad you asked.
I know a lot of this can be seen as discrediting to your information.
I'm past caring.
The truth's the truth, isn't it?
Yeah, the truth's the truth.
So here it is, right?
We're absolutely dealing with non-human entities.
In my experience, what I witnessed with my own eyes are these humans, because they're not human, changing into reptilian form.
Yes, I've seen that with my own eyes.
I don't care if people want to discredit me.
You know, they've been trying to discredit me since I spoke out.
They've tried to discredit me all my life.
So, you know, whether it's just my family or it's the actual Satanists now that don't want me speaking out.
You know, the trolls and all the rest of it, right?
This guy is so desperate to get some lizard people, shapeshifters, on his show.
The mention of them.
Now, this to me is a deeply concerning development.
Although I hope that it's true, as the interviewer remarks, that this supernaturalisation of Archer's experiences will discredit her story more widely, it also seems to follow a noticeable pattern when a conspiracy group begins to further self-radicalise.
Well, as I said before, I don't think the Satan Hunters or their QAnon allies pose any kind of threat to the royal family or any of the various politicians that they casually describe as monstrous Satanists.
Stories like Anglesey, among many others, show that they very much do pose a threat to ordinary people, especially children.
This shift, then, from their opponents being simply bad or even evil people to something literally inhuman, is a clear escalation to further violence.
In Archer's case, we in fact have a much more straightforward proof of this shift, as documented
by the anti-Satan Hunter blogger James Hines, who noted one of her many recent live streams declaring,
quote, "We need to take back the buildings and rescue the children. We need men. We need strength.
We need people who are military and trained. We need to do this all around the world."
But perhaps the most vulnerable and easily overlooked potential victims of the Satan
Hunting Network are the members themselves.
It seems noteworthy how many users I've come across on the network who seem to get sucked into it right when they're at their lowest, whether going through depression, as seems to be the case with Archer, trauma from previous abuse, or the breakdown of a relationship.
On Facebook and Telegram, it's not uncommon for users to join and announce right away that they're struggling or that they feel lonely.
They're then given the promise of a dedicated, always-on-call support network, on the condition that they begin to frame their experiences through a collective narrative of spiritual warfare between the forces of good and evil.
When this is being done to children, it's easy to see it as grooming, but I'm not convinced many of the people who fall into the community are a great deal less vulnerable.
This is supported by the testimonies of those who were part of and eventually left the Satan Hunting Network themselves, many of whom describe themselves in terms equivalent to exited cult members.
At least one has claimed that Archer actually encouraged her to commit suicide and livestream the act in order to attract further publicity to the cause, although the evidence they provided is an easily fake screenshot of an email conversation, so I'm cautious about the veracity of that.
Another former supporter of Archer who goes by the name of Shelley has claimed that Archer is personally connected to the British far right and uses her status as a coach for victims of abuse to further radicalise them.
In this case, this seems pretty clearly backed up by Archer's social media content And her comments in her Telegram channel, where she approvingly commented on a post sharing an old hoax interview by an American white supremacist, James Wickstrom, which claimed that Jews ritually sacrifice Christian children and give their bodies to the fast food chain McDonald's to be cannibalized.
This is one of the first conspiracy theories we were fed by a random older lady when we showed up to the very first QAnon event in Washington, D.C.
Really?
Correct, yeah.
Travis sat next to an old lady and she's like, yeah, McDonald's is human meat.
Yeah, I have seen this video pop up so many times in kind of Q&R and Save the Children.
My favorite part of the story is that she claimed that the billions served sign outside of McDonald's does not refer to billions of hamburgers served to people, but rather billions of people served in the restaurants were part of the meat.
Well, to other people, so couldn't it be both?
Do they just add them up?
Like, every person is served a person and is served as a person.
So every time you feed someone a burger, that's two.
That's right.
It counts double.
That's why it's so high.
That's genius sloganeering.
Yeah, pumping up the numbers.
I'm looking at this link where they talk about this McDonald's thing and it says, Rabbi Abe Finkelstein and James Wickstrom.
The rabbi speaks about blood sacrifices of children.
Who is this Rabbi Finkelstein who's throwing us under the bus?
He's just a fan of McDonald's.
Dude, what are you doing?
This is always what drives me crazy, because having listened to the interview, he's not a real person.
It's like a neo-Nazi putting on their best Brooklyn Jew accent.
Oh my god.
Oh my god, of course.
Yeah, we just feed the babies to the Christians.
We do this every Seder.
Oy vey!
I love to be Bernie Sanders and eat children!
Oy vey!
A little bit of smoked child goes very well on a everything bagel, a little bit of schmear.
Gefilte, get that shit out of here!
I want a ge-child-a!
A ge-child-a!
And it just drives me mad because all you would have to do is just Google who the interview host is and you'd see it was a fake, right?
You'd see it was a hoax interview.
But not a single one of them ever does that.
I hear they claim that they have lots of Jewish friends.
I wouldn't be surprised if gefilte fish was made from human body parts.
That stuff is just, of all the Jewish delicacies that I've been instructed to eat over the years at high holiday dinners and services and stuff, gefilte fish really is kind of the worst.
Some people love it.
Not me.
I hear that foreskin is actually made from people.
Now that's baseless.
We're not doing this.
We're not inventing our own fun little blood libels on my episode.
Well, Annie, come on.
You can't deny that a foreskin is literally made from a person.
It's from a person, it's not made.
I guess it's made by biology, but...
Well, from the cow you take a steak, and from the man you take a foreskin.
I'm gonna shut up.
Anyway, what Jeanette said in response to a QAnon account sharing that fake video was,
"Yes, the Finkelstein interview should have been impactful, but unfortunately, still, people didn't hear.
Satanists have a rule that they have to tell the world the truth, they do it openly.
I agree with what you said about the human meat, but unfortunately Trump hasn't stopped anything.
He's one of them!"
I kind of really like the addition that Satanists have a rule that they have to tell the world the truth,
which just means that if you ever suspect someone to be a Satanist, you can just ask them if they are.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, it's like a vampire.
Or wait, no.
It's like a very built... No, it's like a cop buying sex.
Sorry.
It's a built-in mechanism so that when people question how this shadowy cabal that's operated for thousands and thousands of years slips up so publicly, you know, you can say, oh, well, you know, they have to do that.
That's part of it.
They actually have to.
It's like a game that they play.
It's actually a part of the Satan You know, the satanic religion is that if they don't publicly sort of show it then the devil will be displeased in their sacrifice or their symbolism or whatever.
Anyway, that video is of course nothing more than Blood Libel, that long-standing anti-Semitic conspiracy theory that's been responsible for so many pogroms in Europe for centuries.
For a network that has already crossed the threshold of vigilante violence and anglicy, it felt particularly concerning to see claims like that Not just circulating the Satan-hunting network without challenge, but actually being boosted by its effective leader.
All of this left me with the question of exactly how worried we should be about this re-emergent conspiracy network.
So I got in touch with a PhD student in Theology and Religious Studies at the University of Leeds, Bethan Julia Oak.
Bethan's research background is in contemporary occultism, online belief, and non-religious spirituality.
I think that the Anglesey kidnapping is definitely a strong example of the fact that it doesn't take us being in a definitive era of mainstream satanic panic for these smaller, fringe-seeming groups to potentially have a harmful impact.
I think it's about finding a key balance between not dismissing any group that employs satanic ritual abuse rhetoric as being too small, or too unimpactful because we know how quickly that can
change, while at the same time not prematurely jumping into a rumor panic of our own where we
automatically declare every one of these groups to be a dangerous public threat. This point
to me presented an intriguing question then in terms of solutions.
How can we prevent further events like Anglesey happening without starting a moral panic about satanic panics of our own?
Bethan's answer on this one actually surprised me.
I think that we can also sometimes hastily jump into assuming that all people engaging in these beliefs have somehow automatically been radicalized beyond reason.
Because extremist groups like QAnon have dominated so much of conspiracy discourse, there's now this general idea that reason and discussion and contrary evidence never works with conspiracy believers, which forgets that there's so many earlier steps of conspiracy involvement before you get into that point of no return.
Dismissing early stage believers as already radical extremists is sure to only push them further into these movements.
I think we're justifiably wary of engaging in discussions around conspiracy beliefs or giving them too much attention, but I do think it is unfortunately necessary.
What first got me into my current research was working as a clinical support staff on a COVID ward during the pandemic.
I came across substantial amounts of patients, relatives, and staff Who are at various points of involvement in pandemic-slash-vaccine-related conspiracies.
And even in some cases of the most seemingly invested cases, it's incredible how many people are willing to backtrack a conspiracy when suddenly presented with the real-life, to-your-face evidence that contradicts their beliefs.
Sure, not all, but way more than we acknowledge.
I think general SRA belief is more similar to this.
The truth is that Satanic Panic did die down and did lose a considerable amount of believers when evidence against their claims became more publicly available in the spheres that they engaged in themselves.
It's just figuring out how to do this in a time where differing belief communities exist in such separate online spaces to one another that's the problem.
This chimed with the sense that I had reading through the Satan Hunting group chats and Facebook comments, and also that I think you guys brought up a bit, that these were generally pretty unhappy people looking for some level of support and understanding, and being sucked into a very damaging environment that crucially masquerades itself as a support network.
It's true that the world they end up believing in, where child-murdering Satanists lurk round every corner, seems ludicrous, and it makes sense why our first instinct is to assume anyone who believes that is beyond help.
And yet it also seems clear that being thought of as beyond help by everyone else is probably what leads a person to a situation where their only option left appears to be paranoid vigilantes who think the Queen is a lizard person.
For the last 10 years in this country, there's been a pretty systematic gutting of mental health services on the NHS, to the point where when I struggled with panic attacks in my early 20s, I got sent to a group CBT seminar, which basically crammed a bunch of people with anxiety into a windowless basement room and told us what a panic attack feels like, which obviously went down brilliantly.
Yeah, this is how I cured Jake.
Yeah, windowless room, that's for sure.
I got to idly speculating how many of Wilfred Wong and Jeanette Archer's followers would still have become their followers if free, one-on-one support for trauma and any other kind of mental issue actually existed from the more obvious places than Telegram and Facebook Live.
It's not really something we can ever answer definitively, but I'm willing to bet there'd be less of them.
Yeah, it's great.
Our institutions neglect the most vulnerable of us, and there are others who are untrained professionals who believe in wacky shit who will welcome them with open arms, make them feel loved, and they are much easier to find than the mental health professionals, and much cheaper, too.
It's free.
For zero dollars, you can go on YouTube and learn that many of your problems stem from Rulers of the world who occasionally shapeshift into reptilians with black holes for eyes.
So it's great.
We're fine.
I'm good.
Annie's great.
Travis is old hat for him, you know?
I mean, this is, you know, no big deal.
We're going to have to pick up the Jake pieces after this.
I'm shattered.
I am shattered into... I mean, this is basically yet another QAnon kidnapping child story, but she doesn't even mention QAnon all that much, only in that last sort of McDonald's post.
I mean, is she super vocal about Q in her other posts, or is this just kind of tangentially sort of adjacent?
No, not really.
She says that she thinks QAnon is a psyop, because she thinks Donald Trump's a Satanist.
You know, so many people do be thinking that QAnon is a psy-op.
Whatever side you're on, it's a psy-op, you know?
It's all the rage.
It's a trendy belief right now.
Go out and buy stocks and QAnon is a psy-op.
It's all just because our brains hurt and we're like, they must be under attack.
But I think yeah, I think more broadly, it shows that like the elements of QAnon, the building blocks that made QAnon what it was, it's just sort of like in the water now.
is just part of our cultural conversation.
And like, you know, the fundamental particles of QAnon have like, are now free from the QAnon structure.
And now they can flow everywhere and sort of infect any kinds of thinking
to the point where you think you're a fucking, you know, like a Satan hunter
on the prowl for demonic rituals.
Right, you know, you sprinkle the little QAnon flakes at the top of the tank
and some of the bigger fish come up right away and they get the big flakes.
But then, you know, over time, you know, the flakes break down into tiny little particles
and the smaller fish can, you know, they can get their fill as well.
And some of it clogs the, you know, You know, the filtration system and some fish come floating to the top because of it.
So, sure.
That's a perfect analogy.
It is a perfect analogy.
Thank you for listening to another episode of the QAnon Anonymous podcast.
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For everything else, we've got a website, QAnonAnonymous.com.
Annie, can you tell us a bit about your podcast?
Yeah, so I have a podcast, it's a six-part series called Vaccine the Human Story, and it's about the history of the development of the smallpox vaccine and the first ever anti-vax movement.
Go check it out, folks!
Listener, until next week, may the deep dish bless you and keep you.
It's not a conspiracy, it's fact.
And now, today's Auto QQ.
I'd like to welcome you to John 844.
I'm James Wickstrom, a teacher of Yahweh, coming to you live on the Turner Radio Network for the next hour from 9 to 10 p.m.
Eastern Standard Time, filling in for Pastor Bob, who covered for me last week.
We're going to have a very, very interesting program tonight.
I'm sure you're going to find it that way.
I have a guest by the name of Rabbi A.B.
Finkelstein.
He's off the East Coast of the United States, who's going to be joining me tonight.
And we're going to be talking about authenticity of things in the world.
Rabbi A.B.
Finkelstein, as I said, a rabbi off the east coast of the United States.
