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March 6, 2023 - Dennis Prager Show
01:14:24
Science and Religion
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Hi everybody, Dennis Prager and Julie Hartman.
It's Dennis and Julie.
Do you know that two guys in their 40s stopped me, I told you this, stopped me a few days ago on the street in Southern California.
And it happens a lot.
It's a beautiful thing.
People say kind things, pose for a selfie.
And the one thing they mentioned was, I really love your Dennis and Julie podcast.
I'm getting that more and more from people.
Most of the time, people will mention my fireside chat.
But now, Dennis and Julie is frequently mentioned.
I love that.
I mean, that makes my day.
And what a day to bring that up from the outside because it's our one-year anniversary of Dennis and Julie.
This is episode 52. Yes, I want to reflect on that for a second because...
Time is a very odd thing.
We say time flies, and that's completely true.
At the same time, it seems like we're doing this way more than a year.
I know.
It does to me anyway.
Does it to you?
It does.
That means a year ago you were still in your dorm room?
I was still in my dorm room.
Doesn't that seem long ago?
It does.
I will say it does.
I know I'm the same person, but my life has changed so much in the past year that I don't know.
It does seem like a while ago.
What I thought you were going to say is that in addition to thinking that we've been doing it longer than a year, I sometimes think that we do it more than once a week.
A, because the week flies by so fast, and so it seems like almost just every few days as opposed to every week.
And also, honestly, we do Dennis and Julie in our separate time.
This is just us.
A continuation.
Last night, we had an hour-long conversation that totally could have been recorded and posted as an episode.
We have Shabbat dinners.
That's entirely true.
It happens a lot.
But I tell you, it blows my mind that it's only a year.
I know.
Normally you would say, it blows my mind, a year has passed already?
I actually have the opposite reaction.
And I don't know what determines it's only a year.
So if you're in prison for a year, I know this is an odd way, but this is where my brain is going.
If you're in prison for a year and it's the year anniversary, do you think, wow!
It certainly seems like less than a year, or God, it feels like 10 years.
Probably the latter.
Yeah, you would think.
May we never know the answer.
Agreed with you, but that's why this is odd, because we've had a good time.
We don't have a good time in prison, so nevertheless, it is a year.
Wow.
You know, one more thing on the Dennis and Julie subject.
Somebody raised it with me.
I don't remember whom, but very recently.
And they asked how many viewers we have, and it's always hard to know because there's so many ways of watching or listening to this.
And it's growing and so on.
But I said, look, I wish the entire planet...
Watch this.
And it has nothing to do with ego.
I would be happy if they didn't even know Dennis Who.
I just think that the content can so benefit people.
And that's why I do anything, to be honest.
But I also have to be very, very open and personal.
I believe that I'm doing something for posterity with you.
I agree.
And I feel weird saying it because...
I don't know why.
I know you didn't say it in this way, and I certainly don't say it in this way.
I feel like it sounds self-congratulatory, but I agree.
They really are, for lack of a better term, timeless episodes.
Yes.
And you're so young.
And you'll look back.
I know.
This is what is so odd.
You will look back and go, God, was I young?
I know.
And gosh, it was so crazy because I was thinking a year ago right now, I had just written the Wall Street Journal op-ed.
Oh, that's right.
February, wasn't it?
Which, by the way, it's so funny because I was rereading the comments of that journal op-ed, which back a year ago I didn't do because back then I was...
I don't know.
I didn't read comments.
Now I'm like you.
I love reading comments.
I learn so much.
Oh, exactly.
And it's so funny because one of the people who was disagreeing with me, well, there was one guy that was like, you know, this girl is talking about, you know, is conservative.
And of course she is because she works for that billionaire Dennis Prager.
This guy kept commenting that you were a billionaire.
And I remember last year I sent a screenshot to Dennis and Sue.
That is precious.
And Sue wrote back, we will give him a finder's fee if he can...
Oh yes, we'll give him 90%.
Yeah.
So that's number one.
And number two, one of the things that people wrote was, oh, she only did this op-ed to promote Dennis and Julie.
Because at the end of the op-ed, it said, you know, Ms. Hartman is a senior.
Yeah, but that's your ID. That's what everybody does.
Right, but what's...
It's like saying, oh, this guy wrote it only to promote his book.
Well...
Yes, that's true, but also what people don't realize, and I swear to God this is the truth, you were the one that told me to put it.
I don't even know if you remember this.
That's correct.
I do entirely remember.
I didn't even put it.
I know that.
I sent it to him before I sent it to the Wall Street Journal, and he was like, so anyway.
But it makes perfect sense.
Of course.
Of course it makes sense.
It doesn't need to be defended.
See, when people differ, they have two choices.
Dismiss your arguments with their arguments, or they can dismiss you.
The left overwhelmingly dismisses the person, not the argument.
That's why I coined the acronym 20 years ago, Six Herbs, Sexist, Intolerant, Xenophobic, Homophobic, Islamophobic, Racist, Bigoted.
You never heard me say that?
No, I never heard that.
Oh, that's great.
Oh yeah, absolutely.
15, 20 years ago.
That's all they do.
You said, you know, maybe the vaccines are not good, especially for young people, and you're an anti-vaxxer, so they don't have to deal with all the scientists who said, you know, there's myocarditis developing in kids that otherwise wouldn't have it, and it seems to be correlated with the COVID vaccine.
Anti-vaxxer!
It doesn't matter what...
What subject you raise.
See, I really don't think that United should hire pilots based on race.
Racist!
You know, I was thinking about this recently because, shout out to Anne.
I know that she watches Dennis and Julian.
You know Anne.
Anne is this wonderful...
We adore Anne.
We adore her.
She goes to Dennis' Minion.
Synagogue.
People don't know Minion.
You know it.
I know it.
And I used to not know it, but I do now.
Of course you wouldn't have known it, right.
And we had dinner recently.
It was so much fun.
And she's so smart and great.
And we were talking about the war in Ukraine.
I want to do a segment on my show about why Putin invaded Ukraine because I've done so much research on it and I think it's really important for people to understand because a lot of Americans Understand that Putin is the enemy and that we're on the side of Ukraine, but they don't really understand why Putin invaded and what led up to it, and I think that's a mistake.
So anyway, I was talking with Anne about it because I wanted to get her opinions on my analysis before I presented it to the public.
And she has a family member who's from Ukraine.
I think she has actually many family members who are from there, so she has a deep personal tie to it in addition to just being well-researched.
And we were disagreeing for a lot of the dinner.
I was more or less, to put it in crude terms, taking the argument that we, the United States, were unwise to push Georgia and Ukraine and other former Soviet states or former Soviet satellite states into NATO. I think over time that was,
although I understand why we did, and I'm sort of two brains about it, I think that it was strategically unwise for us to do it, especially because Putin, For many years had said that he thought that it was a provocative move.
He said at the 2007 Munich conference that he did not want states around his border joining NATO. She was of a different opinion, which I totally understand.
She was saying the whole purpose of NATO is to protect states like Georgia and Ukraine from possibly being invaded.
The point is not that, though we can talk about the specifics of my argument if you'd like.
The point was...
I just sort of zoomed out and I went, oh my gosh, if I were having this conversation with a leftist, well, first of all, I never would be having it, because no offense to them, they wouldn't know enough to participate in the conversation, but they would get so angry and emotional.
Here I'm sitting across from someone who has family who is in Ukraine or from Ukraine, and we're disagreeing about Putin.
It's a very emotional subject.
And we're just debating as two...
Rational, open-minded people.
It was really lovely.
She did not let emotion get in the way of her.
I didn't let it get in the way of me.
And I thought, how nice.
How rare.
How rare.
But we just both care about getting to the right place.
Tell the listeners the story you just told me right before we came on.
Your dear, dear friend Gabby in high school reading my book on happiness and how your classmates regarded that.
So we were on a senior class trip.
This is in high school.
No, this is just the volume.
I thought he was coughing.
And one of my best friends from high school is named Gabby and Dennis has met her several times.
She's a doll.
She's terrific.
Oh my gosh.
She's the definition of just a purely good human being.
Anyway, we were on this senior class trip in high school and I remember she was reading this happiness book on the beach.
There were some girls that were giving her a hard time for reading this book because of the apparently bigoted views of the author.
On happiness.
On happiness.
And it turned out to be Dennis' happiness book.
And then later on, when I first went on your radio show and we became friends, of course, I told Gabby.
And she was like, Julie, that was the guy.
That was the book that I was reading in Hawaii.
No.
That was our senior class trip.
That's a great story, but the reason I raised it was...
And people were getting upset with her.
Yes, that they got upset that she would read a book by Dennis Prager on happiness, no less.
It wasn't like why the left is destroying Western civilization.
I could see why that would animate them, but it's a book on happiness.
It doesn't matter.
That's what I mean, though.
You dismiss the person.
Not the ideas.
Yes.
I know.
I mean, look.
Obviously, you're not a bigot.
But even if you were a bigot, if you had something good to say about happiness...
That's right.
Why wouldn't I read it?
That's exactly right.
People are multifaceted.
Why would you just cancel the entirety of a person for one part of them?
The dismissal of people because you differ on A. Listen, it's happening on Ukraine where there are conservatives who are against...
Aiding Ukraine and dismiss conservatives who are for it, which only means that the left will conquer America and there will be no hope for the future.
I would then grieve for you.
I had a great America, but I would grieve for you and your generation.
If Republicans cannot live with other Republicans who differ on an issue, and it isn't even a domestic issue, It's not like we differ on whether girls' breasts should be cut off if they say they're boys.
That, I have to admit, could cause a real rift.
But on Ukraine, that we would differ?
This is suicide for us and therefore for the United States.
Anyway, we don't have to get into that one at length.
But I just want to say on behalf of your friend Gabby, You are absolutely right.
I have met her a few times.
It almost disturbs me, the issue, when I meet the Gabbies of the world, who are so obviously good souls, because I've really come to realize, and you'd think, why didn't I know this when I was 18?
And yet, I've always rejected the idea that we're born...
Some are born with a predilection to good more than others.
I wanted it to be an even field, a level field for everybody, that you have as good a chance of being a good person as the next person.
But some people, just as they're born with musical talent, they're born with moral talent.
It is disturbing, but it is true.
Truth has to be the number one, absolutely number one concern of a person.
So, you know, I'm not taking any credit from Gabby, but if her parents said to me, well, she really has turned out good, but oh man, did she start out mean?
I'd think, whoa, that's hard to believe.
Right.
You know, I'll say this of Gabby, and it's true of our listeners, and I was telling Dennis this last night on the phone because we were talking about how today is our 52nd episode, and I said, I know that our show is good because A, I'm in it, and I feel it, and I hear it, but B, because of the quality of people who write into me.
Case in point, Elizabeth, the 12-year-old.
Almost 13. Almost 13. And I could name so many people of truly a wide variety of age ranges who have written into me.
And really, our listeners, they're so good.
You can just tell.
And I've had the opportunity to really engage in email exchanges with them.
Very wise.
I mean, all the time they send me articles or corrections or books that they think I should read.
And honestly, that shows me that we're doing something right.
Because if we're attracting those kinds of people...
That's everything.
It is.
But that's the same of Gabby.
I know I must be a good person because I've attracted a friend like her.
That's exactly right.
You know, that's my mirror's theory.
The mirror of your body and face is a physical mirror.
The mirror of your mind is writing.
And the mirror of your character is the people you attract into your life.
If you keep attracting bad people, mean people, destructive people, then the point is not to insult you.
You the individual.
But you need to, quote unquote, look into the mirror.
Why do such people come into your life?
What is it about you that is a magnet for crappy people?
Right.
Yes.
It's a very, very good point.
It really is.
That's why people who say, oh, I'm always mistreated.
And there are many people who walk around thinking that way.
Well, you must look into yourself.
If that's true, and I'm ambivalent, but maybe it's true.
If that's true, why do they come into your life?
They're not in my life.
I'm not cheated and hurt by the people in my life.
If only people thought that way.
Well, that's the reason it bugs me that six billion people are not listening to Dennis and Julie.
I know this sounds hilarious.
No, I agree with you.
I understand.
If we did not make one more dollar, that's all I would be concerned with.
It's true.
So I have an issue to raise, which I like doing, because usually you're the one who's raising the issues, which is great.
It's on this subject of good people.
And it arose this week on my show, Timeless, I was interviewing this FBI whistleblower, Kyle Serafin, who served in the Bureau, I think, from 2016 to 2022, and he observed a lot of political corruption, abuse of FISA warrants, the FBI spying on Americans in a way that he thought was unjust.
I mean, he just he talked and he talked about the Twitter files and he just finally decided that he had to leave the FBI and he was indefinitely suspended.
And now he goes and he's brave enough to talk about it.
And so what's really interesting is after the show, I was chatting with him and I said, you know, it seems that there are more of you out there now, more whistleblowers, whether it be in the FBI or the CIA.
that are coming out and saying, you know, kind of waving the red flag.
And he said something that was so interesting to me, and it got me thinking about this subject that I want to raise, where he said, there are a lot of whistleblowers, but a lot of them won't go as far as I'll go.
Like, they'll come out and they'll talk about certain corrupt parts of the FBI. But this individual, Mr. Serafin, who I interviewed, he talked about sexual misconduct of FBI senior management.
He really did not pull any punches with coming out and exposing the corruption.
And when he said that, I realized there are a lot of good people in this world.
Well, I should amend that.
There aren't a lot of good people in this world.
There is a certain segment of good people in this world, but only a few will really go all the way in their goodness, if that makes any sense.
I'll say this one thing and then I'm eager to hear your response.
Even when I started out doing this job, conservative political commentating, there were times when I would think, are there certain subjects that I should avoid?
For instance, I'm not going to say the election in 2020 was stolen because we don't know, but there were some And I remember thinking, if I acknowledge that, then that's going to turn a lot of listeners off to me.
Or if I acknowledge that, then I may not get opportunities in the future.
And then I thought, Julie, you can't cherry pick the truth that you talk about.
If that is true...
And you need to talk about it.
You can't just tell yourself that you don't want to go there because it may not personally or professionally advantage you.
That is shirking your responsibility as a commentator and as an American.
Similarly with COVID vaccines, that's a very contentious subject.
I could talk about other things, but...
I would feel, again, like I'm morally shirking if I didn't discuss that there are some major problems with the COVID vaccine.
But it's interesting because I think I see a lot of people who will sort of like go 80% with acknowledging that there are things wrong in this country, but they won't kick it up the other 20%.
And I think that's true of fighters and truth-tellers in general.
I could spend the rest of the hour or whatever time we have just on that.
I won't.
I guess this is a perfect segue to, you just told me right before we went on, what you wanted to raise as an issue on your part.
That defines what I would call a great person.
By the way, that's what you wanted to raise last week, just to be precise.
Yes, correct.
And I gave my talk at my synagogue on this.
I did an hour on radio on this.
This has really taken me over for the last few weeks.
What constitutes a great person?
Courage.
I have courage, truth, not yearning to be loved, and being an outlier.
Those are my four characteristics.
You had not heard this, correct?
No.
Good.
Wait, can you repeat them?
Yes, of course.
Courage.
Placing truth is the number one pursuit in life.
The, oh God, what was the third one?
Oh yes, not yearning to be loved.
Being prepared to be hated, in fact.
And therefore, the sum total is every great person.
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Um...
So, those are my four characteristics.
I actually have, I came up with a fifth.
Yeah, so I told you to come up, and you did, without hearing me, you're just hearing this now.
Just now.
And I don't know what you listed.
I did add a fifth at synagogue, and that is having wisdom.
You can't be a fool and great.
Wisdom must be part of it because you can, although it's hard to pursue truth and not pursue wisdom at the same time.
So I'm debating whether to add that fifth or not.
That is so, yes.
You have to add that fifth.
Oh, really?
Totally.
Totally.
So you think you could have courage, pursue truth, not yearn to be loved, be an outlier, and be a fool nevertheless.
Yes.
Okay, that's fair.
By the way, I think that there are people on the left who are that way.
Perhaps...
They don't pursue truth.
Well, okay, that's fair.
If you pursue truth, you can be a liberal, you can be a conservative, you can't be a leftist.
Well, I may challenge...
You can't say sex is not binary and be a pursuer of truth.
You can't say America is systemically racist and be a pursuer of truth.
The whole foundation is lies.
You can't say vaccines are good for children.
It is good to keep children out of school for two years.
It is good to mask two-year-olds and be a pursuer of truth.
I agree with you.
What I will say is that, and this is, trust me, I... I couldn't agree with you more and it's not a pass for these people, but I think that there are people who are like in high school who are on the left and have truly been brainwashed and they think that they are telling the truth when they talk about...
Oh yes, that's right, but they're not pursuing truth.
Right.
They think they're telling it.
And here's a very good way of knowing if you pursue truth or not.
Have you read both sides?
Yes.
By the way, you know it's so funny, and then I want to read, and I have proof right here.
I wrote it down.
I'm very curious.
And it's actually eerie because there's so much overlap.
Yeah, I would imagine.
Again, this is the proof that I'm not just saying it because it's written down right here.
Right.
What you just said, oh, reading both sides.
I'll just tell you this one quick story.
When I discovered you and discovered my conservative instincts, I, of course, talked with many of my friends about it, and I lost some friends, as you know in the audience knows.
And I remember one of these friends who I lost said to me, just do me a favor.
You know, if you're going to be conservative, just make sure that you also read a liberal article or magazine for every conservative article or magazine that you read.
And I responded to this person.
Do you do that?
This person's on the left.
And he just looked like, oh, no, I don't do that.
Like, it didn't even occur to him.
I mean, it was just so pompous.
It was like, oh, but you have to read.
You have to read the other side, but I don't.
Well, I told the anecdote.
I asked someone in my life who was liberal, not left, liberal.
It was a major...
I'm hesitating because I don't want to give it away at all who this might be.
And I asked him, have you ever heard of Jordan Peterson?
No.
And have you ever heard of...
And I just went through the list of the finest conservative minds that I know of.
They have never heard of one of them.
I never heard of you prior to PragerU.
I just Googled, what do conservatives think about police?
And thank God PragerU has a very robust advertising push.
But I had never heard of you prior to that.
That's right.
Or Jordan P. No one.
Are any of us exactly correct?
But we heard of all of theirs.
I know.
All right, so what are your three?
Okay, so the first one was principled.
I wrote under it what I mean by that, and I said, you need to have a higher set of values, parentheses, truth, that you subordinate yourself to.
I think this is so important.
This is what religion used to provide for people.
There were certain things that you placed above yourself and you followed, regardless if it personally or professionally advantaged you.
And that was your framework.
So someone has to be principled.
And I wrote under here an example that I'd like to tell you.
I remember in college, and this is a very common view among people my age, there was a guy who said to me, or I asked him, what's your view of life?
And he responded by saying, life's a game.
And you basically, what you have to do, the winners are the ones who play it well.
And the losers are the ones who don't play it well.
And I said, well, you know...
That's about as dark a response as I could imagine.
And I said, you know, well, what about guardrails?
Or what about morals?
Or what about, you know, values?
And he said, you have to do what you have to do.
Like, everyone is playing a dirty game.
Life is a dirty game.
Dog eat dog.
Yeah.
If you want to triumph, that's what you do.
And I think a lot of people, even people my age who aren't necessarily bad people, have that view.
So I think in order to truly be a great person, you need to have principles higher than you, which is primarily truth.
And I also wrote under that as a note, you need to know what it is you're fighting for.
What it is you're, the kind of...
You can't just pursue greatness for the sake of being famous or well-known or being great.
Truly great people are only aspiring to be great insofar as they're pushing their values, if that makes sense.
I know you so well, and I'm telling the audiences, even though I'm sure they can see it for themselves, you don't care about being famous.
You don't care about making a name for yourself as a...
The Tower of Babel builders put it.
You truly just care about bringing your worldview and your values to as many people as possible.
And I think that's what a truly great person does.
So wait, how do you characterize the second characteristic?
Sorry, this was sort of all under...
Oh, this is still under the higher principle.
The principle needs to motivate your greatness, not the pursuit of greatness.
You need to also have a principle.
So that's number one.
Number two, I put...
Courageous, which is obvious.
And I put that you can't just go 80% idea that I just talked to you about.
The third thing I put was self-doubting, but self-assured.
And I would like to quote G.K. Chesterton on this one.
He wrote...
I think in the early 1900s that a credo of the modern man is that he believes in himself.
That's what every modern man thinks of himself.
And Chesterton wrote, it used to be the case that you believed in the truth but doubted yourself.
Now people believe in themselves and doubt the truth.
That's what he wrote?
That's what he wrote.
The guy was a genius.
Oh my God.
He was a genius and you know what else?
Not unlike Eric Metaxas, he was a hoot.
He was a totally...
Oh, I totally believe just from the quotes that I know of his.
I mean, that is so great.
They used to doubt themselves and believe the truth.
Now people doubt the truth and believe in themselves.
By the way, I have that just locked into my memory.
I didn't look that quote up before I came here.
No, that's beautiful.
It is that memorable that I can spit out exact Chesterton quotes because he's that good.
He's so good that people attribute to him quotes that he never even said that are great.
Like, my favorite.
When people stop believing in God, they don't believe in nothing.
They believe in anything.
I thought that was a pragerism.
That's a Chestertonism.
No, no.
And I always say it's not me.
I'm adamant about not taking credit for great quotes that are not mine.
Right.
I want to shoot myself that I didn't come up with it.
That is how I feel about it.
The truth of that.
So there's an old joke.
He is a self-made man and he believes in his creator.
It's another good line.
It is a good one.
Yeah, not mine again, but it is a great line.
But I think...
You know, forgive me.
No, please, please.
I just want to say this is probably something that occurs to me almost every day of my life and has almost all of my life.
Those who accept God...
And I mean this in an intellectual sense, even.
Not just emotional or theological.
Just accept the God.
I'm talking about the God of the Bible.
The moment you do that, most people change.
You walk around life knowing you're not the greatest thing since sliced bread.
It does, when properly believed in, and many people have improper faith or silly faith even, or even bad faith, but when properly believed in, there's an insurance of a certain degree of humility that there is so much stuff that is more important than I am.
I saw this dying in America in my generation, and it was.
That's why the next two generations are so screwed up and so narcissistic.
A religious kid is not as likely to be as arrogant, as utterly self-assured, because you just grow up knowing there is...
God is higher than me.
My parents are higher than me.
The Ten Commandments are higher than me.
The Bible is higher than me.
My religion is higher than me.
It is such a difference.
There's nothing higher than you in the secular universe.
That's literally what I wrote.
A higher set of values.
Because a truly great person needs to have that framework.
You do.
That's exactly right.
You know Micah 6.8.
It's one of the few things I know.
To cite the chapter and verse.
So Micah was one of the prophets and said, What does God want from you?
O man.
It begins with O man.
Not O Israelite.
O man.
This is universal.
What does God want from you but that you pursue justice, love righteousness, and walk humbly with your God?
Isn't that interesting?
Have you ever heard that quote?
I have.
Walk humbly with your God.
It's such a big deal.
Because if you really take it seriously, there's nothing to get all that arrogant about.
That's one of the amazing things about religion, and I know I've argued this on this show, but religion allows...
Two seemingly contradictory things to exist.
And I actually think religion does have sort of a nice way of reconciling them.
The examples that I've given on the show is that certainly in Christianity, God is both incorporeal, but also has a son.
God is righteous, but yet he allows bad things to happen.
There are all these sort of things that seem to be working against each other in religion, and one of them is what you're just talking about right now.
It's that, on the one hand, people who really follow religion properly understand that they are small in the universe, that there are things that are higher than themselves that are more important than they.
But also, what religion teaches you in...
In just as important terms, is that you are significant.
That your contribution matters.
Isn't that amazing?
Yes.
Because both are really important.
And in the secular world, for many, it's all the opposite.
Yes.
There's nothing higher than me, but I'm nothing.
I'm just a coincidental piece of physical matter.
Do you know that there is a Hebrew saying?
I don't know where the source is, but it's ancient.
So you'll love this.
You will love this.
So I learned this.
I was single digit old because my yeshiva education taught me so much.
Religious Jewish education from the sources and in Hebrew.
So a person is supposed to believe two things.
The world was created for me is one.
And the other is I am just.
Dirt from the earth.
You have to carry both with you to have a realistic view of who you are.
Yes.
The whole universe was created just for you.
On the other hand, you're just dust of the earth.
You're made in the image and likeness of God.
Yes.
But you are dust.
Right.
Yes.
And again, that's totally the way that you should view yourself.
Yes.
In some ways, you need to realize that you are in the image and likeness of God, and in other ways, you need to realize you're dust.
This is why I wrote an article, one of my columns in the last six months.
That the average kid in a truly religious Christian or truly religious, because most Christian and Jewish schools today are neither Jewish nor Christian.
They're just a name.
They're the same woke values as in a regular secular school.
But a true Jewish or true Christian school will, in fact, teach you these things.
In other words, what I wrote was not just that they teach you these things.
I believe that I had more wisdom when I was 13, and so did my peers.
It wasn't Dennis.
My fellow students at Yeshiva had more wisdom than the faculty of almost any university in America today, than the whole faculty at the age of 11, because I learned this.
The world was created for me, and I am just dust of the earth.
I learned that in fifth grade.
I learned in fourth grade that I can't follow my mood by that great story I told you.
So what?
I'm not in the mood for the afternoon prayer.
Really?
So what?
Oh, maybe my mood doesn't matter.
You know how that's life-changing?
A kid, what you want to do doesn't matter.
It's whether it's right or not.
What do you want to do?
is one of the least important questions a child needs to involve himself in.
He needs to involve himself in the question, what should I do?
And you know what was taught in my generation, which is the mother generation of all idiocies, the baby boomers' 60s?
Let's get rid of the word should.
There are no shoulds.
I remember it.
I heard there are no shoulds in life as often as I heard water is wet.
Well, much more often than water is wet.
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Isn't that something?
There were no shoulds.
Okay, this is very interesting because I don't know if you remember.
No offense, you probably don't.
Said with love.
But we talked about on this show a few episodes ago our favorite words.
And I love yours.
You said earn and you also said should.
And I on that episode said that I don't like the word should.
And I think the origin of our disagreement comes from the fact that in your generation it meant something different than what it means in my generation.
I don't remember your commenting on this.
Did you then?
Yes, I did.
I said that I didn't...
I don't like that word because...
Because?
Because you take it to mean what it really...
Moral obligation.
Should mean, for lack of a better term.
Yeah, moral obligation.
Your duty.
I told you that even though I recognize that that's what should, should mean, when I hear the word should, I think of people who are shirking their responsibilities and they want other people to do what they...
Oh, they're not doing the shoulds that they're advocating?
No, and one of the things that I said on that show was...
I remember you saying this.
We should, my lead, and also...
I'm sorry to say this.
One of my least favorite words is we for the same reason because so many people in college, my friends who I love, but they would say this.
They would go, we should go to Boston this weekend.
And you know what I would say to them?
Okay, are we going to make a reservation?
And they'd say, yes, we should make a reservation.
And I said, we means me.
You...
Oh, sorry, I cursed.
Oh my God, you have to bleep me out.
You...
Dear friends are not going to do it.
I'm going to be doing it.
We means me.
And the same thing with should.
People would talk about...
That was new to me when you said that.
We should do this.
Or America should be this.
So I said should.
And what was the other one you remember?
Earn.
I love that.
That's a great word.
Did I give my third favorite?
Yes, you did.
And I can't remember.
Oh, God.
And I'm the human recording machine.
That's true.
It's okay.
Yeah, what is it?
Nobody would.
Like.
Yes, that's right.
Like beats love.
Why again?
I don't recall.
Everybody loves their kid.
Not very few.
Many of the people who love their kids don't like them.
That's another great pragerism and good distinction.
I'll tell you what I was thinking of today.
Now when I say that I love someone, I say that I love them like a friend.
Uh-huh.
As opposed to like a best friend, as opposed to like a sister.
How about this?
Just add, I love them and I even like them.
Yes.
That's a good one.
That really, that brings the point home.
So you wrote this, or was it a column?
Yeah, no, it wasn't a column.
It was a speech from my synagogue and it was at one hour on the radio.
When I get possessed by an idea.
Oh, I know.
And it works because then.
Thanks to the radio show, I have so many people to bounce it off.
And then again, publicly speaking on it.
Then I will write it up, and that will force me to get it even clearer, because writing forces you to think much more clearly.
And then, by golly, I have an important idea for people to digest.
And then it's in your mind.
It's filed away in your mind.
It is truly filed away.
So here is an even...
Not more interesting, but as interesting question.
This you didn't know I would ask.
So you gave your characteristics of who is a great person, and I gave mine.
So here is the interesting, and this is not a, the question seems simple, but it's not.
Well, it's too primed.
Should everyone aspire to be a great person is one.
Two, can everyone be one?
You asked this last week, and I think I misunderstood.
Yeah, you did.
Bummer.
He's so funny.
By the way, Dennis, sometimes I feel like I shade you a lot with regard to your memory.
You have an excellent memory when it comes to ideas and concepts.
That's right.
And that's what's important.
Okay, I'm not complaining.
God gave me or nature gave me gifts and some not gifts.
Anyway, go on.
By the way, one of the bingos that some of our producers made is Dennis repeats an idea that he said last week.
Right, as if it's brand new.
Yeah, it's okay.
They also say I bang the table.
By the way, since I came up with this phrase that repetition is the mother of pedagogy, pedagogy is teaching, it's not a bad thing that I don't remember.
No, no, it's not.
Who remembers it?
We're bombarded with messages.
Anyway, go on.
Well, I was just going to say it's worth bringing up again because it is an important point.
I think last week I misunderstood your definition of great.
You meant, excuse me, in the macro world, great.
Oh, okay.
So no, this is, okay, you have now raised another issue.
No, this happened last week.
This happened last week.
Wait, okay, I'm trying to remember.
I thought, well, there was, I think we had this exact disagreement or like misunderstanding last week.
Do you mean in terms of the macro or the micro?
Okay, so this, this, I don't know.
And I know people can be great in both.
Well, that's the point.
There are two of us.
Morally, there are two of us.
Macro and micro.
Micro is how you treat other people on a daily basis.
Macro is the positions you hold about things that are larger than you.
So, for example, this I said, and it completely eluded the left, which attacked me for it.
It's all over the left.
Prager says slave owners, there were some nice, some slave owners were nice people.
It's so much deeper than the left-wing mind can tolerate.
It's because they don't see subtlety in life.
As if I'm saying it's nice to be a slave owner.
What I was saying was the human being is divided into two parts.
There are people, just like on the left, there are people whose beliefs will destroy America and the West, but on a personal basis are wonderful to be with.
They make a great neighbor.
I fully acknowledge that fact.
And by the way, we have to acknowledge that because that's part of the problem.
That's what I kept saying.
I don't care about Trump micro.
I only care about Trump macro.
Micro is a problem, if there is one, between him and the people in his life.
Macro is me and 300 million Americans and 7 billion human beings.
That's more important to me.
The macro of a president is much more important to me than the micro.
Jimmy Carter was reputed to be a nice guy.
He was an idiot.
He was a moral idiot.
He's the guy who wrote Israel was an apartheid state before the term even became the lie it is.
And he was the first, I mean this is arguably a lesser offense, he was the first president to acknowledge the Chinese Communist Party as the legitimate government of China.
I didn't know that.
Yeah.
Wait, Nixon didn't do that by visiting now?
No, Nixon visited.
Nixon visited, but Carter was the first to formally recognize.
Oh, is that right?
Yes.
Just another great thing he did.
That's an achievement.
Yes, and there are so many others, and he as of now is still alive.
So, by the way, maybe we should both add to our list great macro and great micro.
Right.
By the way, just before we move on, I want to say something that I have...
Come up with as a rule for myself, and really since I became conservative, if it's true, I can't get offended by it.
That's right.
That's a good one.
I mean, look, if someone's yelling at you and saying something true, but they're being abusive to you and they're not treating you kindly, you can be offended by that.
I'm not saying people have the right to treat you poorly if something is true.
But I'm saying like...
With what you just said, that some slave owners were personally agreeable or nice people, I can't get offended by that because that's true.
That's the whole point.
That doesn't mean I endorse their slavery.
That's right.
No, exactly.
And the same thing, you know, like so many women get offended when you or others say that women have problems controlling their emotions.
I can't get offended by that because it's true.
They don't ask on the left, is it true?
They ask, is it offensive?
How can you get offended?
Again, obviously within appropriate limits.
How can you get offended by something that is true?
Not only that, it's not meant to be offensive to begin with.
Yes.
Men have to control their desire to be sexual predators and to be violent.
You can be discouraged by something that is true.
I'm discouraged by what you just said.
I wish men were different.
I'm discouraged by the fact that women are overly emotional.
But this concept of being offended, we...
They're offended by reality.
If I were a teacher, I would just say to a student who says that they're offended by something, like, it's impossible for you to be offended by this.
You can't be offended by this.
Right.
Well, as I say to people all the time, you choose to be offended or not to be.
It is a choice.
People act as if I'm offended is an objective reality.
No, it's a subjective reality.
You have chosen to be offended.
Okay?
I choose not to be offended.
I'm not offended.
The only question people should ask in any event, as you point out, is, is it true?
When I say United Airlines is going to have less qualified pilots because it is announced half of its flight school will be women and minorities.
In other words, we at United are not going to choose pilots based on ability.
But at least in half the cases, based more on their sex and their race.
Why will I expect equally good pilots?
This is not an offense against women or against minorities.
It's a fact.
If you don't choose based on excellence, you won't get excellence.
Why is that offensive?
And you know, I'm sorry to say it, on the subject of planes, We're going to be seeing a lot more plane crashes coming up in the next few years because of that, and even in the medical realm, because the MCAT... Did you know this?
The MCAT is removing a quarter...
Actually, I shouldn't say is, as if they're going to do it.
They already have.
Removing a quarter of their questions that pertain to, oh, I don't know, medicine and anatomy, and they're replacing them with social justice questions.
And also, the MCAT has a policy, and by the way, look up...
The corruption of medicine.
Tell people what MCATs are.
MCATs are the test that you take to get into medical school.
This is all according to Heather McDonald, by the way, who is a Sue Prager in her own right in that she is a...
She is astoundingly well-researched and rational.
She's phenomenal.
She is phenomenal.
So the MCAT has gotten rid of a quarter of the questions and replaced them with social justice questions.
I did not know that.
Oh, this one you're really going to love.
They have a policy where if there's a certain percentage point disparity with...
The amount of people who get a question right, like if 15% more white people get a certain question right than black people, they think that that racial disparity is evidence of racism.
Due to the question.
Due to the question, they get rid of the question.
Yeah, we're in great shape.
What do mitochondria do?
We'll get rid of that.
That's clearly...
You ever hear of mitochondria?
I do, but...
It's the part of the cell.
I think it's the part that produces protein, but I'm not certain.
But I know very little of this stuff, but I just happen to remember that.
And isn't that an amazing thing to think that there's a racial quality to, gee, what do the mitochondria do?
Which part of the heart pumps blood and which part of the heart receives blood?
Well, if more Asians get that right.
It's clearly racist.
So I have a little bit of a seemingly curveball question for you, but I'll tell you why I'm asking.
Are you interested in biology?
Hold on, mitochondria what?
I was right.
I can't hear him.
He says it takes the food we eat and turns it into energy so the cell can use it.
So is that protein or not?
Maybe I wasn't right.
Okay, go ahead.
Are you interested in biology or anatomy at all?
Like, do you try to learn more about it?
Well, in school, that was the science that most intrigued me.
But I can't say that I read about it now.
If there's an article, you know, it's found that X does this as opposed to what people used to believe.
I'll read it, but I can't honestly say that it has grabbed me.
I'm not proud of that fact.
It is what it is.
Why?
Why do you ask?
I ask because, well, A, let me first just say I feel the same way.
It doesn't particularly grab me either.
But the more that I learn about it, the more that I come to believe in God, which seems paradoxical because you would think that the more I would come to understand science, then I would believe in science.
But the more that I come to understand science, I believe in the magnificence of science, which makes me believe in God.
If that makes any sense.
Yes, of course.
It is so unbelievable.
That's what my brother, who was at Harvard Medical School many years ago, he said, that's where I came to believe in God, when I looked at the microscope.
I remember learning in college, in my psychology courses of all things, the way that our eyes work with taking in vision.
Right.
That we take these two...
Photos is the wrong word.
These two images.
We bring them together in our mind.
And by the way, apparently we see upside down.
I know.
I learned that.
I remember that.
Without realizing it.
And it's done immediately.
It's done immediately.
You don't even understand all of the gymnastics that your eyes are doing so that you can see.
The eye alone.
If somebody said, why do you believe in God the Creator?
The eyeball.
Seriously.
And it's so funny because I think a lot of people would, the more they'd learn about that, the more they'd...
When people say that logic dictates that this was all natural selection, it is so obviously a function of a desire to believe that.
The I made itself, or over a million years, it developed all these abilities.
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When entropy is the formal logical thing in life, where things devolve, not become superior?
Also, as you point out in your rational Bible commentary, and I will admit the thought didn't even occur to me prior to reading what you wrote.
How does life emerge from non-life?
It's not rationally tenable to just say that this all...
Right, so you know what?
They admit that they have never been able to replicate that.
And yet they know by fact that there is life and there is non-life.
So you know what their answer is?
You don't know?
Big Bang Theory?
No, no, no.
That has nothing to do with this.
Okay.
What?
So their answer is, we don't know, but science will tell us one day.
So that's, but we're the ones who have faith.
Like, that's not a faith.
Oh, really?
How do you know one day science will tell you how life came from non-life?
So let's go back for a moment to what you just said because I think it's really true and important.
You said it clearly comes from a desire within them to not believe in God or to believe in science.
Why do you think they don't want to believe in God?
Isn't it comforting and lovely to believe in God?
Don't you want to think there's an afterlife that rewards good and punishes evil?
Yeah, well, so you have hit one of my favorite things that I developed in the last 10 years.
Whenever I have a dialogue with an atheist, privately or publicly, my first question is, and this way I know, am I talking to a rational person or a true...
Well, true believer, true fanatic.
In other words, is the person intellectually honest?
I don't care if he's an atheist.
I care if he's intellectually honest.
So I ask them, do you hope you're right or wrong?
That's my question.
If they say, I hope I'm right, you hope there is no God?
You hope you will never see any of the people who you have loved in this life?
You hope that?
I did this with a very, very famous atheist.
I won't say his name.
Was it a fireside chat?
No, no.
I think it was either on his show or a moderator's show, and we were both guests.
And he's an editor of a science magazine.
He's well-known.
And he's a good guy.
In other words, he's not aggressive and so on.
But he's...
Militant atheist.
But I asked him that.
I'm just curious.
Do you hope you're right or wrong?
And at first, he was ambivalent.
Well, I don't think about that then.
It was something like that.
I said, really?
Wait a minute.
There's a part of you that hopes that you're right, that you will never see your wife or children for eternity, that you will have...
No other joy ever?
That it's oblivion after this tiny infinitesimally small period of life?
You don't hope that that's not the case?
It's weird.
So wait.
So he goes, well, I never thought of it that way.
So yeah, I'd like to see my loved ones.
So you hope you're wrong.
But it goes back to your question.
So why, in my view...
Because they don't come to atheism intellectually.
They come to atheism psychologically and emotionally, which is what they say about us and God, but they can say all they like.
By the way, some people do come to God emotionally and psychologically.
I come intellectually, but I admit that.
But they don't admit that they come psychologically and emotionally.
So your question is why?
What's in it for them?
So this is a very hard question given the fact that...
If they think about it, they hope they're wrong.
So why would their emotions and psychology work against their fervent hope?
So as we saw during the lockdowns and COVID generally, people follow the herd.
The intellectual herd is atheist.
To stand out in the realm of the intellectual today, As a believer in God is to stand out and not be taken seriously.
People want to be taken seriously by their peers.
So there is huge social pressure to be secular at least, and atheist at most.
That's a big factor.
Another is they have been brainwashed into believing that if they are serious about science, by definition, it precludes belief in God.
I think that science demonstrates belief in God.
I don't see science as irreconcilable.
You got it.
I got it.
With God.
In fact, one of the things that I feel like I'm just a walking, living, breathing advertisement for the Rational Bible.
By the way, the listeners agree.
I hope you are.
You know, I have listeners write in to me, Dennis and Julie listeners, and ask me which one I should buy.
And what do you recommend?
I say Genesis.
I say Genesis.
Just start at the beginning?
Yeah, start at the beginning.
I'll answer.
It doesn't matter.
So, you know, while I'm here, while I'm bringing this up, maybe I could get like a 1% cut for, you know, my ads.
No, because then I will have been paying for these plugs.
That's dishonest.
I am kidding.
No, I mean.
I know you are.
I know it sounds corny to say, but the book is in and of itself.
The reward, the joy.
I mean, it really is life-changing.
Anyway, you write in the first chapter how the Torah's description of the beginning of the world actually fits the Big Bang Theory.
It's amazing.
So it just proves the point that science and religion cannot...
Are not irreconcilable.
Well, this is a new idea that science conflicts.
The greatest scientists, who was the...
Newton, the father of modern physics, as far as I understand, was fervently religious.
The idea that science conflicts with religion is post-Darwin, not pre-Darwin.
So what's interesting about that, too, is...
When I first guest hosted for you, I did an hour called How Did We Get Here?
Which, by the way, if I ever had my own radio show and I had to segment my hours just in the same way you once a week do happiness, I would probably do one hour on How Did We Get Here?
Because there are so many...
By the way, I think if you ever name...
If you have a radio show every day, I think it should be named How Did We Get Here?
The show itself.
Yes, I think that's...
Not just an hour.
I think that's a fantastic title.
How did we get here?
It is so provocative.
Okay.
I'm almost tempted to ask Sean to edit this out because I feel like that's such a good idea, actually.
So why would you want it?
Because I don't want anybody stealing it.
Oh, that's hilarious.
Don't you dare.
I'm going to get it.
I'm going to get it trademarked.
Yes, get it trademarked.
I'm actually going to get it trademarked after the show.
Anyway, thank you.
By the way, I said to, when I spoke to years ago in Baltimore, Or somewhere in Maryland, I think outside of Baltimore, to virtually all the Republicans in the House of Representatives.
So I said, that's when I came up with my line, the bigger the government, the smaller the citizen.
And Hugh Hewitt, who was also on the dais, said, tomorrow you must get that trademarked.
Yes.
No, you know, when you have a good thought like that, especially us who, you know, speak about publicly, you have to jump to get a trademark.
I am not kidding, by the way, I'm getting trademarked.
Good, good.
Yes, it's fantastic.
But I, anyway, the first time I ever guest hosted for you, one of the greatest honors of my life, one of the most fun days of my life, I did an hour on how did we get here.
And one of the things that I talked about was Einstein's theory of relativity.
At the turn of the century, that is from the 19th to 20th century, Einstein discovered that the way that we understood the universe according to Newtonian laws was wrong.
The science of it doesn't exactly matter, but what matters is that he discovered that time and space are relative to one another as opposed to fixed, which is what Newton thought.
Anyway...
What happened, and Paul Johnson explains this marvelously in his book Modern Times, which Alan recommended to me.
Anyway, it's a great book.
You guys who haven't read it should read it.
And one of the things Paul Johnson says is that Einstein's theory of relativity sort of opened the door for moral relativity.
That's how he begins the book.
Yes, because people...
You know, think about, it would literally, Einstein's discovery was so revolutionary at the time, it would be as if we discovered life on another planet today.
It shook up people's understanding of the universe so strongly that people started to think, huh.
Well, if what I understood about the way time and space works was wrong, what else?
What other assumptions do I have about the way that the universe works that are wrong?
And then that's when religion started to be doubted, etc.
But what's interesting, and this is reminded me of when you said, did you say Newton was he himself religious?
Einstein wrote about how he, lamenting how his scientific discovery has led to this moral relativism.
He, Albert Einstein, Mr. Science.
Wrote what?
I'm curious.
He was also religious.
And he wrote and he said, obviously I can't quote it verbatim, but it's in Paul Johnson's book.
He wrote that he feared that his discoveries about relativity has wreaked moral and cultural havoc.
Yeah, I wouldn't characterize him as religious.
And he said, sometimes I wonder if I should have just been a watchmaker.
Instead of a scientist.
Because he was so concerned about what his discovery did.
Morally and intellectually.
That is interesting.
That I believe.
But just for the record, he wasn't religious.
I don't know what he was.
And by the way, I'm not...
Just for the record, and this may surprise you, I don't care.
See, the notion that we should care about what great...
Experts think about anything outside of their area of expertise.
That's a flawed notion.
And you know when, I'll tell you, I know the day I came to this realization.
Decades ago, there was a full-page ad in the New York Times.
X number, I don't remember the number, X number of Nobel laureates opposed capital punishment and signed this petition.
Exactly.
And I remember, why do I care?
Wait a minute.
You got a...
A Nobel Prize in chemistry and I should care what you think about capital punishment?
Why?
This is one of the many false gods of our time.
Expertise.
All I admire is your expertise.
That's why we got screwed up with the lockdowns.
Experts said lockdown children for two years in schools.
They were dead wrong.
They were 100% wrong.
But it wasn't their area of expertise.
Right.
And if it was, then we're really doomed.
I know.
This is a not exactly related point, but tangential.
But again, welcome to Dennis and Julie, because we are nothing if not tangents.
The tangential hour and a half.
That's right.
I'm going to get that one trademarked as well.
Of course, now I'm forgetting, and that's a bingo thing, so congrats to anyone who's playing at home.
One of them is Julie forgets.
Oh, yes, yes, yes.
People coming out about statements.
You were making the point that people speak on things, and even if they're not experts on them, why are the Nobel laureates talking about capital punishment?
What I have noticed is that after George Floyd's death, It was so creepy to me to see how many businesses, how many sports teams, how many weird niche organizations had to come out and say that they are anti-racist.
I remember the Harvard women's softball team posting a statement on their Instagram saying, we, the Harvard women's softball team, like...
We condemn what happened to George Floyd, and we vigorously support the defund the police movement and systemic racism.
And I'm not just picking on the Harvard women's softball team.
By the way, some of the greatest girls I ever met at Harvard were on the women's softball team.
Really awesome, conservative.
The only conservatives I met when I spoke at Stanford years ago and I interviewed students were guys on the sports teams.
Oh, yeah.
I mean, the sports teams, people loved me at Harvard.
Because they liked you a lot.
So I'm not trying to pick on them.
But one team after the other, the baseball team, the soccer team.
I remember sitting there thinking, why the bleep does it matter if the Harvard men's soccer team opposes systemic racism?
They're here to play soccer.
Like, why are they commenting on this?
I mean...
Well, that's what woke is about.
Look, leftism infiltrates everything.
There cannot be a non-political arena of life.
This is one of the reasons I hate the left.
They ruin joy.
Well, I told you that one of the ways that that was really hammered home to me was during my graduation speech.
Or sorry, during my graduation ceremony.
One speaker after the other, after the next, would talk about politics.
No life wisdom.
That's right.
None of that.
And I was sitting there thinking, and this was, by the way, this was the same at my high school graduation, so it shows that it's been there for a while, even though I'm only five years out.
I remember when you're a graduate up on that stage, you don't want to hear about climate change.
You don't want to hear about guns.
You don't want to hear about abortion.
You're scared.
You don't know what your life's going to look like.
And you want some wisdom.
The last thing you want to hear is politics.
Well, left and wisdom are antithetical.
And I don't mean that as a put-down.
I just mean it as true.
I'd like somebody to tell me a leftist with wisdom.
Not liberal, not conservative, a leftist.
If they were wise, they wouldn't be leftist.
It's very, very sad, but very true.
You're right to think about what should be said at a graduation.
That's why PragerU has a graduation speech every year.
I love it.
You delivered it.
Well, I delivered one.
Oh, they're every year.
Oh, every year different people deliver it.
Absolutely, and they're terrific.
They are really terrific.
Is it Tim Pool who will give this year's coming?
I just saw, you know, I see the videos in advance because we review them.
So I'm planning a little spoiler alert.
I plan very far ahead of my show, Timeless.
For instance...
Not that this is related, but the 20th anniversary of the United States invasion of Iraq is coming up on March 20th of this month.
So I'm going to do a whole show on that.
Anyway, I try to think far in advance to prep some really cool episodes.
And one of the things I'm planning on doing this May is looking back at the best and the worst graduation speeches.
And analyzing what makes a good one and what makes a bad one.
Unfortunately, I can find far more bad ones than good ones, but I was thinking maybe I'd write my own.
Of course you should.
We have to conclude in a moment, but to give you an idea of how radically schools have changed, you will be shocked to know that years ago I gave the graduation speech.
At the University of California, Irvine Medical School graduation.
No way.
That's right.
Is that amazing?
I never knew that about you.
UC Irvine.
Today, if I showed up at UC Irvine, they would send police to escort me.
I was going to say they would throw tomatoes at you, but that would be nice.
Well, if they were good, ripe, nice, I would just catch them.
So is it on YouTube?
No.
I'm just letting you know, though.
Isn't that fascinating?
And you also, this isn't really the same thing, but you debated Kamala Harris, of all people, on CNN. Oh, on Larry King, on CNN. Yeah, people can say that, see that.
I've met Kamala Harris.
It wasn't a full debate, it was just a few moments, but yeah.
I met her.
Lucky you.
Lucky me.
Her husband just spoke about toxic masculinity.
We should do that.
And her husband kisses Jill Biden.
Yeah, well, I have no comment.
Okay, how can we be reached?
Yes, how can we?
Just as your roommates.
How can we be reached?
How should we be reached?
No, no, no.
We, you.
We does mean you, just as it did in your dorm room.
Oh, trust me.
We always means me.
You can reach me at julie at julie-hartman.com.
Oh, my God.
I feel like I say this every time, but you know how much I love reading the emails I send them to Dennis.
I do, too.
Yes, I love them.
Thank you.
Thank you all for listening and for your wisdom and for your love.
And let others know about this.
Let others know.
Especially young people could touch their life.
Yes, and follow us at at Dennis and Julie.
No.
At DennisJuliePod on Instagram and Twitter.
To another year.
That's right.
Indeed.
Take care.
Bring champagne.
Oh my god, I forgot!
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