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Nov. 14, 2022 - Dennis Prager Show
01:31:33
The Tyranny of Marks-ism
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Hi everybody, Dennis Prager with Julie Hartman.
It's known as Dennis and Julie for that reason.
Hi Jules.
Hey, I'm so happy to be back.
You're happy to be back?
Are you happy I'm back?
Yes, well I'm happy that we're back to the podcast.
No, no, that's very fair.
I am too.
So, it's an interesting thing.
We probably won't say anything about the midterm elections.
I know.
Isn't that interesting?
It is, because we don't really go there.
That's right.
I think, I would hope that that's refreshing for the viewer, because we're just bombarded nowadays by politics.
That's right.
And anyway, I have my own talk show.
You have your own podcast.
And we're liberated.
Yes.
That's the beauty.
That's the word.
And I think that's the appeal of what we do here.
So anyway, I want to tell you a little bit about Denmark.
Before you do, I'm so sorry.
Gotta get rid of this fork.
We need to liberate our set of the fork.
Did you throw it away?
No, I put it right here.
I don't know why we need a fork on our set, my dear.
Again, it's the woman in me.
I'm trying to think of a reason why we would need a fork on the set.
It is such an improvement from what the set looked like 10 minutes ago, so I'm happy.
Didn't we do a video of that, actually?
We did.
We actually did.
So look at our Instagram at DennisJuliePod.
We did a video of what it looked like before we started filming.
Did I not...
I don't want to say it again if I did mention it, what Alison Armstrong...
We talked about this the last show.
Yes, that's what I thought.
Because you had rubber bands on the set the last show.
Now there's a fork.
Well, what the hell, I'll say it again.
She mentioned to me once, when she goes into her bedroom and sees her bed, the pillow talks to her and says, fix me.
Totally.
And I realize that anyone who says men and women are basically the same is an idiot.
There's no other possible adjective.
Yes.
Okay.
So now the fork's gone.
It's gone.
We can talk.
Exactly.
Because it's not saying, move me.
It's not screaming out to me anymore.
It's not screaming.
That's right.
It's right.
Inanimate objects don't scream out at me.
Well, you're a healthy person.
And a male.
Both, yes.
So...
Yes, healthy.
That's right.
So a few words.
For those who don't know, I just...
I came back from Denmark.
I was there for five days.
I lectured at the Danish Parliament, not to the Danish Parliament, I don't want to overstate, but a member of the Danish Parliament secured a beautiful room there for me to lecture.
About 150 people came.
So you and I discussed this, and I think it's worthy of mentioning publicly.
So there are two ways of reacting if you're Dennis Prager.
I have no relationship as such with Denmark, obviously.
And here I am in Denmark.
I got a free speech prize from the Free Press Society, which is a lovely thing.
But what is much more meaningful is at least 150 Danes were there to hear me speak.
So on the one hand, I can say, let's really look at that.
What I want most in life to touch people's lives is happening.
Look at this turnout in Denmark.
And on the other hand, of course, I think 150 people.
I know.
And I will not live long enough to resolve that tension.
PragerU has a billion views a year, and all I think is more, and all I think is, hey, there are 7 billion people on Earth.
I know.
I feel it, too.
It's really difficult to not feel it.
But one of the things that I said to Dennis off-air when we were talking about this is, first of all, obviously you've such an immense quantity of people who you've touched.
Even though you wish it could be more, we have to acknowledge that it's...
Enormous.
But also, what's unique about you is the quality component.
Because when you do touch someone's life, you transform their whole life.
I'm living proof of that.
The woman who wrote to you, you called her your Danish Julie.
Dennis met this wonderful girl in Denmark.
What is she, 25 years old?
30. Oh, 30. And she wrote this email to Dennis, which Dennis forwarded to me about the way that...
Oh, that was a woman in America.
Oh, that was not the Danish woman.
Oh, I thought that was the Danish girl.
Totally understandable.
Well, you know what?
It actually proves my point.
A, the quantity point and the quality point.
Oh, that's interesting.
So apparently this girl was American, but she wrote this incredible email about the way that Dennis has touched her.
And so you don't touch people in one way.
You revolutionize their whole lives.
And I don't care that it's a compliment.
It's true.
I probably have said this, but I want to get rid of this topic because it's sort of like a woman talking about her looks.
It's very self-conscious and stuff.
I understand.
Right.
But that's why I think I'm on earth, is to touch people's lives for the better.
That's what I wrote in my diary in high school.
I'm living my diary in high school.
So, anyway.
Enough of that.
I just want to say about Denmark that it was a very rewarding thing.
And the reason that I accepted this, I don't generally accept awards.
It's just not my thing.
I'm grateful that people offer them.
But I wanted to go and meet people in Denmark.
I just wanted the experience.
And I wanted Sue and me to have the experience.
And indeed, we had a great time together, and we had a great time because we met terrific people.
I just have to say this.
I knew very early in life how insignificant blood is compared to values and love.
That's why it was a non-issue for me to adopt a child.
It never occurred to me would I love my adopted like I love my biologic.
It never occurred to me I thought it was a stupid question, which of course it turned out to be.
But what does this have to do with Denmark?
It has a lot to do with it.
I met people whose backgrounds are completely different from mine.
They grew up in Denmark.
They're either Christian or, in any event, none of them were Jews.
And I grew up an Orthodox Jew in Brooklyn, New York.
It's pretty different from being an unaffiliated Protestant in Denmark.
Is that fair to say?
Everything is different.
I felt so close to the people that I met this past week.
So close.
Everything is values.
Everything.
I don't understand blood is thicker.
Why is it blood is thicker than water?
Is that what it is?
Yeah.
What does that even mean?
Who really?
And how many people actually believe that?
I remember asking audiences, raise your hand.
Would you rather, if you were stuck for six months on a desert island, how many of you would take a relative and how many of you would take a friend?
And by the way, this is no knock on relatives.
I have some wonderful, beloved relatives.
But you choose friends and relatives are given to you.
So I'm pulling out this notebook because yesterday I had this day where I decided to take a day off from work and just journal.
Because every single day I'm trying to read and write and, you know, I've made everything professional.
I just decided to do some reflection.
So I'm pulling this out because I wrote about this and it echoes exactly what you're saying.
Wow.
So we're hearing your journal?
Yes.
This is how intimate the Dennis and Julie podcast is.
That's why I remarked.
Of course not everything, but I'm going to read to you this part because it's literally exactly what you're saying.
Okay, well forgive me as I find it.
There's a lot of stuff here that I wrote about, as you can see.
Well, it shows you how much I wanted to do it.
Okay, so I was writing on this subject of the importance of values and how my vocation in life is to find people who share my values and find those truly rare and unique people who have an elevated understanding of life.
And so...
I wrote this thing and I said, my old self would say, you know, if I were at a wedding or an event, put me next to the most famous and successful person in the room.
My new self says, put me next to the realist, most genuine person in the room.
If he's a janitor and he's the most real and genuine person, I want to be next to him.
The key to life is finding genuine people.
And then I write more and I say, I talk about wanting, sometimes I feel like I should act my own age, like I should go to bars or, you know, go out to clubs, because I don't do that.
I go to Shabbat dinner table with you and other 50-, 60-, and 70-year-olds.
And I was writing about this kind of internal conflict I have, and then I said...
And then I realized, no, I should, again, just try to seek these genuine people instead of going out to a bar.
And I wrote, why would I go out to a bar to find more of the same kind of future human beings that surround us?
All those ghosts, those conventional, desperate, empty, enslaved shadows of human beings.
Clearly that's a little harsh, but it's true.
I've got to somehow balance enjoying my youth while also finding the most genuine people.
People like Dennis.
People who have unlocked an elevated understanding of life.
Ready for this?
This is exactly what you're saying.
I said, I need to go to church, synagogue, AA meetings, anywhere.
I need to find and cherish those people however they come.
I'm realizing that that's why I love Dennis and why Dennis loves me so much.
Even though I'm a 23-year-old Christian female and he's a 74-year-old Jewish male, we cherish finding those treasures of people regardless of how they come.
That's right.
Is that not exactly what you just said?
A, blood doesn't matter.
I mean, of course, in some way it does.
You have to honor your family.
Right, right.
But blood does not matter.
Correct.
Age doesn't matter.
Race doesn't matter.
Religion doesn't go out, whether it's in Denmark, whether it's in L.A. Anyway, I didn't mean to make it about me.
I know you were just talking about Denmark, and I feel kind of narcissistic pulling out this journal.
No, it was not narcissistic, and it was beautiful.
It's exactly what you were just saying.
Yes, it's exactly right.
You wrote exactly what I was saying.
When you realize what's important, nothing else is important.
Yes, totally.
Just exactly the point.
That is why I loathe the left.
They make race, gender, all that stuff important.
It's not important.
It's just not.
No, it's not.
And the other thing that I wrote in the journal, again, I'm not trying to make it about me.
I am trying to bring it back to your experience in Denmark, but this is a really important point.
I wrote that, you know, Our business is a bit difficult.
I mean, it's amazing in this way, but it also poses a challenge in this way where our job is to make life understandable to people.
And when your job is really about life, it's hard not to professionalize your life.
And I have found as I'm preparing to be on air and, you know...
Again, I'm reading so much and I'm trying so hard to be good at this thing.
I find that I'm sort of going down a path where I'm professionalizing my life.
Every book I read, I highlight obsessively.
I underline.
I circle the words I don't know.
I make a list of the words I don't know.
Type up notes on the book.
And, you know, if I watch a movie, I can't just enjoy the movie.
I'm looking out for things that would be good material in a show.
And I'm realizing that I'm kind of, again, professionalizing my life.
And that has the result of being kind of deadening and desiccating.
And I wrote in this journal, I said, Dennis does the very opposite.
Dennis doesn't professionalize his life.
He life-izes his profession.
When you go to Denmark, yes, you're there for work.
Yes, you're there for this job that we both do, which is speaking to a lot of people.
But you use that professional opportunity to enrich your own life and meet people like the Danish Julie who you were talking to me about.
To meet all those other wonderful people that you were just mentioning.
And that is a really wonderful part of you, and it's a profoundly helpful example to me.
By the way, people should understand, and you should understand, because we spoke about this privately, so I'll just say it again.
I think I said it to you.
There's nothing wrong in constantly looking for, gee, what will I say publicly?
True.
It's so part of me that it's instinctive.
Wow, that's a point I'd like to make on my radio show, or that's a point I'd like to write a column about.
Because, you know, we're not, and there's nothing wrong with comedians doing this.
Comedians play a great role in society, I think, if they're a good comedian.
But we're not showmen.
I'm not looking for great lines to make a better living and get bigger audiences.
I'm looking for important points to touch people's lives with.
It's perfectly legit to do that.
You're not, quote-unquote, professionalizing your life.
But since you're new to it, that's what it seems.
Right.
Well, I take it to a bit of a different...
I think you've hit a really good balance.
I'm right now...
And by the way, when I'm, quote-unquote, looking for material...
As you were just pointing out, it's not that I'm thinking, oh, I should just say this because it will get X amount of views or X amount of likes.
I really want to believe in it.
I only say things that I believe.
But my point is I'm sort of taking it to the next level where I obsess so much about it that I do find my life as being a bit professionalized.
For instance, when I read a book, I need to not treat the book like I'm studying for an exam.
I need to read it, digest it.
You know, obviously talk about it on air.
But I am just personally taking it a bit too far.
But you're right.
The beauty of our job is that everything that we do is relevant.
Everything could be material.
The encounter you have with, you know, someone at the gas station.
When I was raising my kids, it was part of my...
It's incredible.
Yes, exactly.
It is incredible.
It's a gift from God or nature or life.
It is a gift.
To do this for a living.
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But I'm just telling you, I'm trying to strike a balance, but I think you have done it so beautifully.
I can only tell you, to the extent that this comments on your comment.
I certainly did it in Denmark.
I mean, it was such a rich...
Well, thank you.
Good.
I think you're right.
But I just want to note that the meeting...
Sue and I had dinners as often as possible or meals with some of the people that we met there.
For example, the group, the Free Press Society, who gave me the award, they had...
Saturday night, they had a dinner at a lovely Italian restaurant in Copenhagen.
And the whole board and two other guests were there.
And I... By the way, you already know this instinctively as I've seen this with you.
Obviously, I had a certain seat at the table.
And they were like...
A dozen people or 15 people at the table.
And I said to the group that I was sitting next to in the middle of the meal, I have to go over to speak to other people.
And I did.
I simply changed my seat to sit with others that I had not been talking to.
I was the guest, obviously.
And anyway, I did get to speak to everybody.
It is so...
This is another big, big point I just want to make.
It is so wonderful for your life to meet good people.
It sounds, oh, that's the big wind-up was for that pitch.
It was like, for those who know baseball, it's like a change-up.
It sounds so simple, but if you really understand it, it's everything.
It's everything.
Yes.
I made a point on my happiness hour, which you'll love.
I said, loneliness is not assuaged by being with a lot of people.
If it were, nobody would be lonely on a New York subway car.
And you found this at Columbia.
Yes, that's correct.
I was with a lot of people.
Exactly.
The number of people has no effect on your loneliness.
It's having kindred spirits.
It's having good people that conquers loneliness.
And, you know, it so boggles my mind because I've been doing the Happy to Sour for 25 years or nearly, and I never actually said it that way, but it makes perfect sense when I use the subway car example.
The reason people are lonely is not because there's no one in their life.
It's because they don't have kindred spirits in their lives.
Well, a subway, I hear what you're saying, but at a subway, you know...
It's an extreme example.
Yes, and people are on their phones, but you could be at a dinner table and you could feel lonely, as I often have.
You could be in a marriage and feel lonely, which was a point that I made.
Yes.
Well, no, it really is true, and that's the point that I was making in the journal, that you...
Finding good people is everything.
And again, it doesn't matter how they come, regardless of how they come.
Right, which you're realizing as our love for each other and friendship.
Plain, simple, the deepest sense friendship is as proof as you can get.
Right.
And again, this dovetails nicely with what I was saying about how, even though it's kind of a stupid phrase, you life-ize your profession.
When you got up from that table and sat with other people, you have this and I have this.
You have a genuine desire to learn from your listeners or from your fans.
You don't see yourself as above them.
You see yourself as so lucky that you get to reach so many people and bring...
You know, a vast number of people into your life.
And that's something, I mean, growing up in Los Angeles, and especially going to the schools that I went to, and I went to very elite, private, all-girls high school, and then of course I went to Harvard, so I had a lot of exposure to extremely famous people.
Some were nice, some were not nice.
Actually, most were nice.
But many of them treated their fans, interactions with their fans, as just that, interactions.
Oh, thank you so much for watching my movie.
Thank you so much for reading my book.
Thank you so much for listening to me.
Let's take a selfie.
Move on.
Juliette from Virginia is going to be really ticked off because I'm complimenting you a lot, but it doesn't matter.
You are the first famous person I've seen who really breaks that barrier between themselves and their fans.
you don't just make it transactional.
It's not just that you take a selfie.
And we've talked about this.
You talked about that Norwegian guy in the airport and you had a whole discussion with him.
You really want to get to know them.
And you view it as an opportunity to meet someone and maybe find that person that we're talking about.
To find those people.
That has taught me so much.
Oh, yes.
God bless you.
That's great.
So, first, at the risk again, because...
Look, folks, Dennis and Julie is about Dennis and Julie and about life.
That's what makes it real.
It's not an ego trip, just for those.
Anyone who knows me knows that's true, and I can assure you with regard to Julie.
But in any event, if people who know me only publicly, which is most people, obviously, were to be at a dinner party with me, they would be surprised.
Either A, how little I speak, or how much all I do is ask the people questions.
Yes.
The last thing I'm interested in is speaking.
It's true.
So you've seen this.
Of course, yes.
So certainly in Denmark, that's all I did was ask.
I asked everybody about their lives.
I'm truly curious and interested.
How could I not be, I think?
These are fighters.
You think it's hard to fight in America.
It's much harder to fight in Europe.
We have large numbers of people who are fighting the woke here in Europe.
The conservative movement in Europe is jealous of us in America.
And I pointed that out and they fully agreed.
They don't have Talk Radio.
They don't have PragerU.
They don't have Daily Wire.
They don't have TPUSA. They don't have American Greatness, Town Hall, the innumerable, wonderful, conservative websites and so on.
So these people really deserve credit.
But my point is, what makes you tick?
So this gets to the Danish Julie, whom I hope you will meet.
I would love to meet her.
Sue and I have invited her to actually stay at our home.
She's never been to America.
So I met her the second day, I guess.
She's 30 years old.
She's very bright and unbelievably cheerful.
I mean, her demeanor is just so winning.
Both of us fell for her, and I asked her, and she has just our values, which, talk about being lonely.
I mean, you're a 30-year-old woman, not married, and you're in Denmark, or any European country, essentially, especially Scandinavia, and you have these values?
That's a tough road to travel on.
She was expressing exactly our way of looking at life, which makes sense because once you understand it, it's the most logical way.
But anyway, I then asked her, so are you religious?
Because, of course, religiosity is a, you know, the Judeo-Christian value system is my underlying system of thinking.
So she said something to this effect.
And this is worthy of 10 Dennis and Julie episodes.
This is so big.
So she said, I really, really want to be religious.
But I can't find any.
I go to church and it doesn't do anything for me.
And it was said as a lament, not as a criticism.
I thought, oh God, this is so painful to me.
Because she hasn't gotten the sophisticated approach to God and Bible that I give.
It's everything.
It is everything.
So, at the risk of however it comes out, I'll just say, I... I'm much more frustrated than I celebrate the impact that my religious ideas have had, the Bible commentary.
And I thought, I know for a fact that if she read my volumes of the Rational Bible, she would think differently.
And it's not Dennis that's the subject here.
The subject here is that religious people forgot how to explain religion.
And I can't...
I don't know if I've said...
I don't think I've said this to you.
Maybe not even...
I think privately I might have.
Do you know what I do for a living my whole life?
You're a translator.
Close.
Close.
I'm an explainer.
That's...
I've explained America.
I've explained Judaism.
I've explained Christianity, ironically.
And I'm not a Christian.
I've explained Judeo-Christian values.
I've explained conservatism.
I've explained Americanism.
That's how I defined it a few minutes ago.
We make life more understandable for people.
That's right.
Believe me, why do you think I see in you my hope?
Thank you.
Well, it's just a fact.
It's not a compliment.
But explainer.
That's what I've ended up doing in my life.
Explaining.
So this is a terrific young woman, bright, the right values, aching for God in her life, religion in her life, doesn't know where to turn because nobody's explaining it in a sophisticated way.
Did you give her Genesis of your Torah?
No, I have to send it to her.
You have to.
By the way, well, you've read Genesis and Exodus, not Deuteronomy.
Which of the two would you recommend I give to people first?
Genesis.
Well, that's what I did.
I know you wrote Exodus first, but I started with Genesis.
Okay, fair enough.
The reason I think Exodus is because it has the Ten Commandments and I do so much work on the Ten Commandments.
True, but just having a good chronological foundation and knowing those early stories first, I think that's important.
When I send it to my friends, I send Genesis.
But she...
I'm debating, the reason for my silence is I'm debating whether to say this, but I'll say it.
See, Christians and Jews, I know, I really know Christians and Jews.
I mean, from the inside, which is pretty rare to know two religions from the inside.
So, they...
Their strengths, this is true for even people, for you, for me, for people, very often your strength is also your weakness.
I say that all of the time.
You do?
I say that all of the time.
I was telling my mom that five days ago.
In what context?
Oh my gosh, well look at Donald Trump.
His strength is that he's guileless.
He doesn't care.
He shoots off the hip.
My strength is my weakness.
I care so much.
I'm so diligent.
And then I'm neurotic.
Another good example is the woman who knows or believes at a very early age she's beautiful.
So it's a blessing to be beautiful, but it's a curse if you rely on it.
Yes.
Then you don't know why men want you, and then you get hurt by men.
You don't develop other possibilities in your life, and one day you won't be as beautiful as you are now.
Right.
It's just, look, I remember you'll get a kick out of this.
You will really get it.
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So when I, my first really, really, really close friend was Joseph Telushkin, who still is my friend.
We met, we were both 15 in high school.
So he took me, of course, I visited him at his home very often.
And when I first went to his home, his parents, one European-born, one American-born, met me.
And I was not the normal kid that Joseph would bring home from yeshiva.
And so I said to Joseph, After a couple of visits to his house.
He said, so how did your parents react to me?
I was so curious.
He said, so Dennis, my mother said to me, he's very, very charming, but is he deep?
You?
Okay.
So this, look, it has stayed with me all these years because I'm pointing out like the girl who could rely on her beauty.
I knew at a very...
I'm telling you this story because this is self-revealing.
I knew at a very early age I could rely on charm and get away with a lot.
I knew it.
And I said to myself, don't you go there, man.
You will end up a nothing.
It's a blessing to have charm.
But hello, you can't rely on that.
You better develop every other part of you.
Anyway, so back to blessings and curses.
I'm good at remembering where this began.
Judaism and Christianity.
The blessing of Christianity is faith.
The blessing of Judaism is practice.
Law.
Right.
But they're also, they're curses.
So what has happened is Judaism relied on observance and Christianity relied on faith.
And that was basically it.
It's like the girl who relied on her looks and the guy who relied on his charm.
And then they got older and older and older, and it didn't work as well anymore.
The early generations, the observance and the faith, they were powerful.
But over time, if you can't explain more than believe in Jesus or more than observe the mitzvahs, the laws, You're not going to have a deep religion and you're not going to have many religious people.
Yes.
Yep.
And that's what their message has been.
Keep the law.
Believe in Jesus.
Have a great day.
It is, I think, one of the greatest tragedies of our time that religion has not been explained well.
Because I, like you, see...
You know, I was once that person.
Sometimes I forget that.
But a few years ago, I knew...
Luckily, even though I was on the left, I had enough wherewithal to know that there's something greater out there that I'm not.
I need to do the work to tap into it.
Actually, before I found your Bible commentary, I ordered this book.
It's called 30 Days to Understanding the Bible.
I think it's by Max Anders.
And it was a great book, but it was very academic and it was very factual.
It was like explaining the chronology or the location of where the Bible was written.
So it was a good introduction.
But thank God then I found your commentary because it really...
It makes it relevant.
It makes it relevant.
Relevant is the key word.
But I have to tell you, it pains me too because I have many friends, dear, dear friends who you've met in my life who are secular.
And I love them because they're not like the other lefties who just completely disparage religion.
They, I think like an earlier me, knew that there's something to it.
But they, again like the earlier me, haven't found...
The right way to have it explained to them.
And it's such a tragedy because I say to them sometimes, I go...
And by the way, a lot of them, I've given them the Rational Bible and they haven't read it.
Of course not.
And I've asked why and they'll go, oh, I'm too busy.
I think there's a part of them that's afraid to read it.
I think there's a part of them that...
Thanks that it won't be helpful to them because they've never found religion to be helpful to them.
And I say to these friends, I go, I promise you, I know you well enough.
And I also remember my old experience.
I literally say, read the first 10 pages.
As a favor to me, read the first 10 pages.
It is such a tragedy because there are so many people who have the potential, who are fertile soil to let this stuff grow in.
And they've been, I'm sorry to say, especially with the following term, they've been screwed over.
They've been screwed over by religious establishments and they've been screwed over by academic establishments.
By the anti-religious establishment.
And by the religious establishments.
No, I agree.
I was just adding a different word for the other side.
Of course they were.
My life, I know I've said this ad nauseum, but I have to say it again, and I was journaling about it.
What didn't I journal about yesterday?
So, I just was...
How often do you journal?
That's the thing.
I rarely...
Journal, because I get frustrated writing, because there's so much I want to get out, and I feel like my hand can't keep up with my brain.
But I just told myself yesterday, I'm going to allow myself to slow down.
By the way, you need to take pictures of everything you wrote, so this may get destroyed in a fire or lost.
True, true.
You know Alan Estrin has written a page a day all of his life?
Learning that fact, I think I learned that about a month ago, that inspired what I did yesterday.
I've kept that in the back of my mind.
He does it every day.
And he keeps it to a page.
Yeah, that's unbelievable.
It is unbelievable.
I don't know if I have the patience.
Well, he's the most disciplined human being I know.
He's unbelievable.
He makes me look like a homeless drunkard.
Oh my gosh.
See, this is your equivalent.
Of a beautiful woman being told she's beautiful and thinks she's not.
That's funny.
Oh, yeah.
So you do a three-hour talk show.
You've written, what, like 11 books.
You just went to Denmark.
You often, after your three-hour talk shows, do either Dennis or Julie or another podcast.
And then you write columns, and you speak, and then you do your minion.
But yeah, you're a, whatever you just said, a lazy drunkard.
Got it.
That makes sense, Dennis Frager.
That is funny.
Well...
Can you see what I'm saying?
So I got a new great subject based on exactly what happened.
Yeah.
So I debate this.
So my father told me regularly I was lazy.
Okay, it doesn't matter.
I think he was right, by the way.
It doesn't matter.
What you're told by a parent or an older sibling...
Sticks with you.
It does.
It just sticks, good or bad.
So I debate, and I don't have an answer.
Did my father do me a service or disservice?
Because I can make such a powerful argument that he did a service for me.
Because I have...
Because I think of myself as lazy because of what he said, I have battled not to be lazy all of my life.
And that has been a blessing in terms of what I've accomplished.
What if my father had said to me when I was in seventh grade, boy, you know, one thing...
One cannot say about you is you're lazy.
You are one hard-working kid.
Right.
Which would have been a lie.
I wasn't a hard-working kid at all.
But it's a very tough question, the question of what should parents say to their child.
You see, this is really such a perfect example of what we do.
Go from one huge thing to another huge thing.
This is really huge.
And this has preoccupied me more now than in the past.
Maybe it's not possible to raise a child to be happy all the time and become a good, productive human being.
Maybe it's just not possible.
If you're seeking to make your child happy all the time, you might be ruining them.
Yes.
You know, I feel like a broken record because I feel like everything that you say, I say, I was just thinking about this.
But it's just, it's true.
I don't know why.
I'm certainly not thinking about having children at this point in my life.
But for some reason, maybe it's because I'm...
You know, I just turned 23, and I graduated from college, and I'm making that leap from, quote-unquote, the childhood years to adulthood, and I'm reflecting on my upbringing.
And I'm thinking about, you know, when I'm a parent, what will I do differently?
And what will I try to emulate with how my parents raised me?
By the way, I would want to emulate, you know, 95% of it, because, you know, I have wonderful parents.
But I was thinking, then I had this debate with myself, which is exactly what you just raised.
But if I'm too good of a parent, that actually may cripple them.
Because, I mean, my parents...
Were and are excellent parents, but certainly growing up, there was a huge, huge, huge problem in our household, which was my sister Gina.
And it was just, it was constant.
Or just people should understand who's severely autistic.
Who's severely autistic.
Even minimally autistic.
Yes, like extremely, almost completely nonverbal.
Lived in our home until I was eight years old.
She was physically abusive to me.
She had to leave our house, excuse me, went to a residential facility in Massachusetts for a few years, then came back to Los Angeles and bounced around from group home to group home where she had horrible, negligent, abusive care.
And my heroic parents, every single day of their lives, I witness them.
Literally, our dining room table would be peppered with legal documents and binders and they just gave their whole lives to this child.
And that had a profound impact on me.
What?
Watching them take care of her?
Yes.
Watching the way, I mean...
Watching, especially my mom, because, you know, my dad would go out and make a living and my mom was really the one bearing a lot of this burden.
Not that my dad didn't help, but he had to go make money.
But my mom, I just saw how sad she was and how she, I mean, my mom is the most valiant, incredible, disciplined, devoted person I know.
But, I mean, she went through hell.
And you're raising this because?
I'm raising this because...
Don't worry, I'm not using this as a therapy session.
I'm raising this because that really, I think, in some ways, that wasn't a perfect childhood.
But that really benefited me in a lot of ways.
That's right.
You're bouncing off my life.
Yes.
That benefited me in so many ways because I... I understand the tragic nature of life.
I've learned how to try to balance my own happiness with making my parents happy or my sister happy.
It taught me a lot.
And my point is, I was reflecting on my own childhood.
And the bad parts, I think, were good for me.
And so when I was thinking about when I'm a parent, if I'm too perfect of a parent, I may cripple my child.
Not that I want to give them bad parts.
No, no.
There's another reason you might.
Let's say you're a perfect parent.
Your kid will then grow up with another problem.
Yes.
How can I measure up to my parents?
Well, exactly.
So that's what I'm saying.
There is no perfect answer to raising children.
So there's a...
Well, there is a perfect answer, ironically.
Because there's no perfect answer, here's the perfect answer.
Do what is right.
End of issue.
Yes.
You can't...
There were two...
Big things you must avoid.
You cannot try to make them happy.
You can't make them happy.
Only humans can make themselves happy.
It doesn't matter what age you are.
Maybe two, but okay.
We don't stay two very long.
Well, that's not true.
A lot of people are staying two.
But anyway, so one is, what was my point?
This is really important.
When I made that throwaway line about two years, many people still do.
I lost track of this.
This is two.
Oh, yes.
The other, and it's really important.
You can't aim to be loved.
Yeah.
This is the tragedy of America of the last half century.
Parents wanted to be loved by their children.
At all times.
Now, every parent wants to be loved by their children.
That's not here or there.
What's here or there is, do you act in a way that you think will elicit love?
Right.
Then you will screw your child.
Oh, have I seen this time and time and time again in these, again, the neighborhoods and the schools that I grew up in.
Just parents who were so desperate to be their children's best friends.
Right.
And it was inappropriate.
You're supposed to parent your child.
You're not supposed to become their best friends.
And I really could see how much it crippled the children.
I have another interesting thing that all of this, this is also brand new, by the way, just occurred to me.
What is the relationship between that and a really happy marriage?
A thought.
That meaning the friendship?
Yes.
Oh, that's interesting.
No kidding.
It just hit me.
Okay.
So listen to what I'm asking.
Yeah.
So are husband and wife who are deeply in love with each other, are they more or less likely to helicopter their parent, their child?
Less likely.
I think.
Oh, okay.
Yes.
Well, if that's the case, then that's a big deal.
Yes.
Maybe this preoccupation with the child is a function.
Oh, totally.
That's why single mothers are the most guilty of spoiling their children.
Is that true?
Oh, it's also true about single fathers, by the way, And frequently, and so all they want to do is give them a great time at Disneyland instead of being their father.
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So it's well known that they're likely to be spoiled, kids after divorce.
Mm-hmm.
Oh, it's a supplement.
If I don't have love from a man, at least I'll have love from my child.
Yes.
And if I don't have companionship with my man, at least I'll have companionship with my child.
Oh, that's exactly correct.
Yes.
See, here's how I look at life.
Again, this is somewhat of a new thought, or at least a new term.
It is a delicate art, life.
And it's very hard to be a great artist.
Or, forgive me, because I have another way.
This has occurred to me in the last few years.
The human being is an extremely finely tuned Maserati.
When the Maserati works, or some other super expensive car, it is a sight to behold.
It is a marvel of human engineering.
If it doesn't work or not driven properly, it's obviously awful.
And we're infinitely more complex than the most complex car.
Right.
So to get it right is rough, is just really difficult.
But most people aren't trying to get it right.
Yes.
Yes.
Absolutely.
And they're not aware that that is the goal that they should have.
That's right.
Well said.
That's one of the things, and I know I've said this many times over the past few weeks, but it's something that I have...
It's probably the biggest lesson that I've taken away from meeting you and becoming conservative and this whole journey I've been on is what an unbelievable thing that your mind has the power to steer you in the right direction in life.
That you can use your mind as a navigator and a tool and a refiner.
A few episodes ago I was talking about how I have this habit of cursing.
I will be very honest with the viewer.
I have not been very good about breaking.
You have been good about breaking.
Have I? That's not true.
Oh, good.
See, I'm so hard on myself.
I think I haven't been.
Oh, there's no comparison.
Oh, good.
Okay, good.
Well, I was cursing a little bit.
I think I cursed once before.
Yeah, but this was in jest here.
We weren't kidding.
Even I did.
Okay, fair enough.
But I was...
Again, you know how you were saying a few minutes ago, there was a big wind-up and then you feel like whatever you said wasn't worth the one.
Maybe this is the same thing, but I just had this realization.
It is so cool that I have this habit or I have this proclivity, but if I train my mind to overcome it, I can overcome it.
And so what you're saying here with people don't even see it as a goal to...
Be that great Maserati or elevate themselves.
It's a real tragedy because I think there are so many of us, you know, in my journal I mentioned ghosts.
There are so many people walking around who just, I don't even know if, again, this is maybe, we'll get into the realm of being too touchy-feely or too trying to be profound, but it's really something that I believe.
They don't recognize that they're human beings.
They don't recognize what it is to be a human being.
They don't know what, like, they would never think.
My vocation in life is to elevate myself to be the best possible version of a human being I can be.
Not just the best possible professional or the best possible even like mother.
Just to reach my heights intellectually, spiritually, emotionally as a human being.
It doesn't even occur to them.
They did in the past.
I know.
So what happened?
I have a partial answer.
But I want you, what you know, but I want everybody listening to understand that was the point of education.
Yes.
Character building.
Yes.
How do you pursue the best you you can be?
I know I just said this, but...
It literally doesn't even occur to them.
No, it doesn't.
It doesn't.
You know, I gave a course.
It's still available at the Prager store.
How tragic is that?
It must be 25, maybe 30 years old.
I gave a course at a Jewish seminary in Los Angeles.
I think it was 8 or 16 parts.
It was quite extensive.
How to lead, ready, a better, which is common, how to lead a better life.
But that wasn't the full title.
How to Lead a Better and Deeper Life.
And I remember saying to the audience, I salute you.
Not many people sign up and pay money.
Maybe to be happier.
Maybe to be healthier.
Maybe to be more successful.
But to be deeper?
That's to your credit you're here.
The problem also is that we...
We don't have good examples anymore of deep people.
It used to be, of course, that education was character building.
But also, and I say this ad nauseum, the most powerful, lasting thing that you can give to a person is a good example.
And nowadays, there are few people who I can...
I mean, I'm so lucky to have you.
I'm so lucky to have great parents.
And I have an uncle who I think is just a remarkable person.
I'm blessed with people in my life who are examples.
But I'm lucky.
There aren't many out there anymore.
And so there's no...
Again, people don't even...
It's like speaking another language when you say being a deeper person.
People don't even know what that looks like.
That's right.
They literally...
And by the way, I'm so fervently speaking about this because I went through this.
I once...
Again, I had this.
It was almost like a little divine...
Understanding that there was something, like a little inkling that there was a whole, like, vast repository of information and life exploration that I wasn't tapping into.
I had that weird feeling when I was little.
Or when I was younger, I should say.
But I still didn't know what that meant, you know?
Am I making any sense?
Yes, of course.
If I knew there was something, but I didn't know what it meant.
And by the way, I'm still figuring it out.
But it's really tragic because there are so many people who walk around and we are just bowing down on our potential as human beings.
There's a book.
You would love it.
You would read it in one night.
Amusing Ourselves to Death.
Have you ever heard of it?
No.
The title is perfect.
It was written, I think, in the 70s.
Maybe the 60s.
And Neil Postman.
Oh, I've heard of...
Really?
Yeah.
I feel like I've heard of him.
The book is better known than he is.
The book title was...
It was a very, very big seller.
It wouldn't be today.
People are amusing themselves to death, and they're already dead.
But the examples he gives are dated, but it's irrelevant.
The points are...
Evergreen.
And if you want to be constantly amused, you can't be deep.
Yeah.
That's why...
I guess I'll make a plug for this, but people watching or listening are already plugged in.
Send this to young people in your life.
See, the existence of you in it will...
Intrinsically appeal to young people.
And then they'll hear me, and then it'll make sense, and then I'll be fine.
But having someone that they know, oh, she's younger than me, for God's sake.
So what does she have to say?
Just out of curiosity, they might listen.
Right.
But the amusing oneself to death, that was a...
I'll give you an example.
You may not know this, and I hope you don't, because I love telling you things you don't know.
I don't remember the number, but you should look it up.
The first presidential debate, I believe, was Kennedy-Nixon, 1960. And the presidential debates, they've measured the amount of time Each candidate, you know about this?
I do, yes.
So now, I was just watching a debate, a senatorial, a gubernatorial, I don't remember.
And the moderator says, so you will have 60 seconds to respond, and then you will have 30 seconds to respond to his response.
Well, wait, let's explain for the viewers what the Kennedy-Nixon thing was.
Go ahead.
Which is that Kennedy spoke for longer, and it made more of an impact on people.
Oh, but that's not the point.
Oh, no, that's not the point I'm driving at.
That is a valid one.
No, I'm making this point.
Okay.
The early debates, they spoke for minutes.
Yes.
Not who won.
I'm not talking about who won.
It's irrelevant.
Right.
I'm talking about the trivialization, the amusing ourselves to death.
You have to be amused at a debate.
Yeah.
It has to be sound bites to capture your attention.
When I heard the guy say, you have 30 seconds to respond.
How the hell can you do that?
I mean, it's beyond belief.
By the way, I know this.
I'm on television.
I've been on television a lot in my life.
So I know, unlike radio, where I have three hours to develop ideas, All right, take away commercials, two hours, okay?
I have two minutes on TV. Maybe three.
Oh, it's impossible.
Oh, no.
So I've developed my own methodology.
My own methodology is I will, knowing I have maybe a minute, I will say as much intelligent things as I can in one minute.
Yep.
So I have no idea if it lasts and probably doesn't.
What do you mean by lasts?
In the people's minds.
It lasts.
Okay.
Well, I hope you're right.
But whether it does or not, that's what I do.
Right.
But my point is the amusing ourselves to death phenomenon even applies to what theoretically is not amusement, a debate.
But a debate is now entertainment.
Yep.
It's an excellent point.
Well, it's also Instagram.
I mean, you got it.
Like, people...
I actually was reading this really fascinating study.
I hate saying I was reading a study because we've talked about nowadays.
If you say you read a study, there are studies that confirm everything under the sun.
Right.
But nevertheless, I was reading a study and it said that...
People in my generation, Gen Z, listen to a song for no more, I think the average time that they listen to one song is like 32 seconds for a standard like three and a half or four minute song.
And they compared that.
I have to dig up.
I read so much, but I need to dig this up.
It's somewhere in one of my million Crazy Julie folders, this study.
They compared it to previous generations, and the point was previous generations were closer to listening to the duration of the song than people my age.
In every generation, it's gone down a bit, where people listen only to...
You know, half or a quarter of the duration that they used to listen to.
And that's exactly what you're saying.
We have to click to the next song.
We got our little bit of amusement.
We're bored.
I got a challenging question.
I don't know if you could possibly have an answer to it.
So you went to the most prestigious college in America, Harvard.
So if you had to guess, and it's obviously only a guess, how many of your classmates?
Just graduated months ago.
How many have read a book since graduation?
Because they don't have to read for exams.
Probably a quarter.
Right.
Or a tenth.
Okay, so I assume you're right.
Yes.
I went to Columbia.
Yep.
So it's an Ivy League.
I'm only mentioning it in context.
I remember...
I actually wrote this up and sent it as an op-ed piece to the New York Times, which, of course, they never even...
They said adios to that.
Well, yes.
But it doesn't matter.
They saw your name.
I tried.
No, no, they didn't know my name from Adam.
Oh.
Oh, no.
Sorry, when was this?
I was in graduate school.
Oh, you said that.
My apologies.
They didn't know me.
The first person to publish me was William Buckley.
Really?
Yes.
Well, what a person.
Yeah, no kidding.
Wow.
Well, I'll tell you about that in a moment.
It's actually a funny story.
But anyway, I remember noting that I was certain virtually no one was reading anything unless there was an exam on it.
Oh, that was me.
When I was at my high school, I was about to say the name, but I mean, not that I'm trying to conceal it, but I'm just...
Being cautious here.
For six years, we had this beautiful library.
Hundreds, probably thousands of books.
I didn't check out one book in my entire six years of being at this school.
Not one book.
When were you aware of this?
I was aware of it at the time.
And how did it strike you?
I thought it was messed up.
I thought this is definitely not the way it should be, but I was just...
I was bombarded with schoolwork and I was just reading all my textbooks and that was it.
And in fact, I don't think I read...
This is actually really funny.
The first time I read a book for me was when I read your books.
Wow.
I, in college, I followed the trajectory that I did in high school.
I only read books and stuff for class.
You know why?
Because I hated reading.
It killed it in me.
I spend all day reading for school.
Why for leisure would I read?
That's right.
I don't want to do that.
Right.
The purpose of reading was not to learn.
Exactly.
It was to get a good grade.
Yes.
Yes.
And I just...
It's really sad.
But even now, look at what I was just saying 30 minutes ago, however long ago it was.
When I read books now...
I'm insane.
I highlight them.
I underline them.
I professionalize it.
I academicize it.
Well...
No, it's liberating to read a book now, but I'm saying I take my instincts from high school and I bring it even to my leisure reading.
I'm saying because I highlight and I underline.
Right, yeah, but...
I do that now and I shouldn't.
But this is to touch lives.
Of course.
That's how I want you to understand it.
There's a big difference.
Well, I think this is kind of the problem.
I always read for that reason.
I wanted to understand life better so I could explain it to others better.
You have to understand right now, and again, I'm being very open with the viewers about...
Something I'm going through, which is right now I'm really trying to balance ridding myself of my old habits, like shedding them like a snake sheds its old skin, and going into this new realm of absorbing information.
And it's really hard based on the academic upbringing that I had, where if you didn't highlight and understand...
Everything in a book, you would fail the exam.
So now when I read, I mean, my roommate, I was reading the Wall Street Journal the other day, and I'm highlighting it, and she's like, what are you doing?
This is a newspaper.
And it's so my academic self coming through.
All right, so if it's of any consolation, I had the...
Literal opposite experience.
We're so similar in many ways.
Right, but hold on.
But we ended up in the same place.
If I didn't underline a book or an article, I didn't think I read it.
So I just want you to know that.
Okay, good.
Okay, yes.
And this is before I had a talk show.
This is before I had a column.
I needed to know what I read and look back at it.
Before I tell you about Buckley and why I was the opposite of you in high school.
I think people should hear what you have to say.
Yes.
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So tell me.
So I have two things to tell you.
My first published works and why I was the opposite of you in high school.
I'll start with the latter.
So you only read for school.
I read nothing for school.
Yes, yes.
We've discussed this.
It's amazing.
It is amazing.
You know, I really admire you.
Good for you.
Well, I marched to the beat of a different drummer from my earliest awareness, which is basically, I guess, ninth grade.
And I had no interest in my grades.
It drove my parents crazy because they thought I was very bright, and here I was wasting it, not getting good grades.
But you were smart enough to see that that was not the best way to learn.
That's exactly right.
Well, do you know you'll love this?
If I can find this, it would be precious.
So, your generation, when you wrote a paper, I don't mean pages, did you write a two-page thing?
On a subject in class, like an English class or something.
Yes, like weekly briefs or something.
But we would write way, way longer essays.
No, no, right.
So they were called essays.
So ours were called compositions.
Okay.
Yeah.
So I wrote one, and it was titled.
Of course, we didn't type them then.
We hand wrote them.
So I have it somewhere, if I haven't lost it.
The Tyranny of Marxism.
This is in my sophomore year at high school.
Oh, wow.
Marxism.
M-A-R-K-S-I-S-M. Oh, my goodness.
About grades, not about Karl Marx.
Oh, my.
Oh, wow.
Good, huh?
Just clicked.
Yes.
No, there'd be no reason I had to explain it.
Right.
Wow.
Yeah.
Well, trust me, I know very intimately that it is tyrannical.
Right.
So here's the...
And the residual effects, as evidenced by me, are tyrannical.
Well, okay, the residual effects are damn good.
Okay, you've translated that stuff.
You've channeled it into very productive arenas.
Yes, but...
Okay, you're a little hard on yourself.
Just a little.
Yeah.
Well, maybe if I could have that impact on you, to be less hard on yourself, I will have gained a garden of Eden.
I have a subject about this, but I want to hear your William F. Buckley.
I don't even know if we have time to do it today, but it's...
So which one do you want to do?
I want to hear about William F. Buckley, and then I'll bring up the subject.
See, you guys, there's so much we want to talk about.
No, it is amazing, actually.
It is.
And it's very natural.
It is.
Go on.
So, I was in graduate school at Columbia.
At the Russian Institute and Middle East Institute of the School of International Affairs.
So I was doing Russian, Arabic, and studying the Middle East and studying communism.
So I spent the summers in communist countries to observe communism.
So I wrote to Buckley at National Review.
He was the godfather of American conservatism.
And I guess I felt to him like young people feel to me, you know, intimidated or very respectful.
I mean, I don't expect any response from him.
So I just wrote him, I said...
And I'm sure it helped, like your thing helped.
Yeah, I'm saying this sounds like a pretty eerie parallel.
Well, it does now that I think of it.
So I wrote him a letter, I said.
I'm a graduate student at Columbia, School of International Affairs, Russian Institute.
And how would you like an article about something in communist East Europe?
I'm going there for the summer.
So he goes, absolutely.
He loved cultivating young writers.
I was 22 or 23 years old.
I was your age, exactly your age.
And I was so thrilled.
The problem was, I had to come up with a subject.
Just a little problem.
A big problem.
It turned out to be...
This is like one of the living jokes of my life.
And I pray I still have the article.
I wrote a piece.
So it must have been 1974, I guess.
No, 73. And I went to all of the communist East European countries except Albania.
You were not allowed in Albania.
Why?
Because it was affiliated with Mao rather than the Soviets.
Oh, that's fascinating.
Yeah, Albania was pro-China and all the others were pro-Russia.
So anyway, pro-Soviet Union.
So I wrote a piece titled, Will Gieric Survive?
Gieric was the Polish communist leader at that era.
And I said, you know, speaking of Poles here, it really seems like...
He's not popular and his days as Secretary General of the Communist Party and President of the Government are clearly numbered.
That was published.
Gehrig survived 10 years.
Oh.
Will Gehrig survive?
How many leaders survive 10 years?
Wow.
Yeah, I really blew that.
My first article is the single most incorrect article that I ever wrote.
You know, life has a weird way of kind of giving you those funny moments.
Oh, well, of course, I didn't know it was funny until years later.
But now, yes.
Yeah, it was a very reasonable article.
Anyway.
That's funny.
Yes.
Wow, I mean, kudos to Buckley for...
Totally kudos.
I have very great will toward him, and I finally met him personally.
Oh, really?
Yeah, I brought him out to L.A. when I was head of this Jewish institute, and I had some of the biggest names in the world.
Yitzhak Rabin came.
I mean, it was much easier to get big names in those days, I don't know why, and to come out.
And I went to dinner with Buckley, and he was just so gracious.
And I thought, look at this.
I'm 29 years old, and he treats me so respectfully.
Confirms my hypothesis that conservatives are the nicest people.
Oh, well, he would have confirmed that.
Every conservative public figure and non-public figure I've met.
That's correct.
It's been nothing.
But not to say, I'm sure there are some blankety blanks out there.
Yes, there are.
But we know we have to work on ourselves.
Yes.
That's part of conservatism.
And we also know that, especially now, we know it's a precious cohort and we really have to support one another.
That's correct.
So give us a preview of what you wanted to talk about.
Yes.
I'm wondering, how much time do we have?
How much have we done?
We have five minutes.
Oh, okay.
He said ten, I said five.
Who are you going to listen to?
Sean.
I'm going to call it at seven and a half.
Oh, that was very sweet.
I'm sure you'd say Sean.
That's true.
I've got a soft spot for my, what did I call you earlier?
My personal leprechaun.
Oh, no, leprechaun.
Yeah, right.
Yeah, my PL. Right.
So, it was, of course, of course I'm forgetting, but it was in response to something that you raised before the Buckley story.
Maybe it was about, you know, in this general theme of how to make your life better or something.
I wish I remembered what you said, but I have been thinking about this idea that we are fallen people.
As you talked about in your debate with the rabbi, people are basically not good.
And I have kind of realized that...
And this is because I'm a perfectionist.
I don't allow that, as I think Jordan Peterson would say, dark side.
I don't acknowledge that I have that dark side.
If I have a negative thought about someone or if I make a mistake, I will relentlessly beat myself up over it.
And one of the things that Jordan Peterson has sort of alerted me to is, you know, You need to be aware and comfortable with your dark side.
It doesn't mean that you should give into it and you should use it as an excuse for wicked behavior.
But you need to know that it's there and you need to accept it about yourself in order to be a happy and, even though it seems paradoxical, to be a better person.
And so, I don't know.
I just thought that was an interesting thing to raise because I'm sort of struggling.
Let's say I'm really angry at someone and I'm having some angry bad thoughts about them.
Should I allow myself to have those bad thoughts?
Should I recognize that those bad thoughts are bad thoughts?
I mean, obviously I shouldn't act on them.
But I guess to what extent should we reconcile with our fallen nature?
I reconcile with my fallen nature 100%.
But isn't reconciling it...
As we're saying here, isn't that kind of endorsing it?
No, because as you said, I don't act on it.
That's why I have inner peace and self-control.
Self-control gives me inner peace.
But that I have dark thoughts doesn't bother me in the least.
Okay, it really bothers me.
I know.
Well, partially because you were raised Christian and I was raised Jewish.
So I want to ask you, where in the Bible do you...
Get the idea that God does not punish our bad thoughts.
We know he punishes bad actions, but what about thoughts?
Well, the question is really on the prosecutor.
You're the one making the charge that we're...
Or the assertion that we're judged on thought.
So I'd like to know where you have that from.
In the Old Testament, which is my testament.
Oh, I don't know where it is, Neal.
I'm just saying culturally, I haven't.
I don't know where it is either.
Yeah.
No, I think it is more in the New Testament.
I mean, Jesus says, if a man looks on another woman with lust, he's committed adultery with his heart.
We don't have that in the Old Testament.
You can't covet your neighbor's wife.
Kavit, as I explain in my Ten Commandments explanation, Kavit does not mean lust.
There is a word for lust and it's not the word.
So you're totally comfortable essentially having a dark side as long as you don't act on that dark side.
That's right.
And I sleep better and act better.
How and why are you comfortable with it?
Are you ashamed of yourself when that dark side comes out?
No, not in the least.
Interesting.
Yes, it is.
It's interesting to me that it's interesting to you.
This is so alien to me.
Exactly.
And I'm realizing that it's kind of fueling perfectionism in a way that's maybe not helpful.
But it's literally a foreign idea to me that you wouldn't be deeply ashamed of your bad thoughts.
I am not deeply or superficially ashamed of my bad thoughts.
I know this is kind of like going around in a circle, but why?
Because what matters is behavior.
I am adamant about that.
I mean, that's what ethical monotheism is.
What are your ethics?
God wants you to behave in a certain way.
The notion that my thoughts are what matter...
Anyway, God implanted this nature in me.
True.
Well, that's an extremely compelling argument.
Yeah.
And one that I think about a lot.
Like the lust one.
I made total peace with the fact, and so is my wife.
You know, I lust 200 times a day.
And so does the average male, unless he's dead.
The only men who aren't lusting a lot are the comatose.
So this is really important.
We should do this as its own subject.
And I commend people to my course on male sexuality at thepragerstore.com.
I don't make big money on this.
This is nothing.
But I know how much it affected my brilliant, and you know she's brilliant, my brilliant wife before we married.
And it...
It is made for such a happier marriage because she understands male sexuality.
So it never occurred to me that if I lust...
What does lust mean?
It means that when a man sees an attractive woman, especially if she exposes a fair amount of skin, he has an erotic reaction.
That's what it means.
That is built into me.
God made it.
I didn't choose it on a list of things before I was born.
Gee, I would like to react erotically to countless women in the course of my life.
It is built into me like I will react to the smell of food if I'm hungry.
Asking a man not to have that reaction is like asking a man or a woman, you're very hungry, you smell delicious food, but don't have any desire for it.
Why do you think God implanted that in us?
Because, okay, that I've really worked on.
Okay, tell me.
By the way, let's remember this about why did God make it.
Let's remember this for a future Dennis and Julie.
My dad was an Orthodox Jew.
But he taught me to be very open on sexual matters.
You now know what the Shabbat table is to Jews.
That's where everything gets talked through.
Everything.
Yes.
That was my university, my Shabbat table.
He would frequently say, he really loved God, my father.
He said, I have one question.
Why did you make the male sex drive so strong?
He would always say that.
My partial answer is that's what gives us our energy.
If you met a man who had a very minimal sex drive, I promise you he would not radiate energy, masculinity, etc.
I'll be totally open.
That's me.
I have a ton of energy, as you well know.
An abnormal amount.
And I am a very sexual being.
And I keep it in check.
I am faithful.
I've been married before.
I was faithful then.
Because that's the vow I take.
If you're not going to be faithful, don't get married.
Okay?
Simple as that.
You want to screw around.
Every man wants to screw around.
But if you can't stop yourself from doing it, just don't get married.
You can't have both.
You can't have the stability of marriage and the...
The sexual gratification of variety.
You have one or the other.
Okay?
That's the way life works.
I made peace with that.
But I'm telling you that I do believe that that drive is a big part of my own energy.
Well...
When I asked the question, by the way, that was very helpful.
I was more so asking it not just with regard to male sexuality, but just with regard to our quote-unquote dark side in general.
Oh, that I don't have an answer to.
Well, there are different components to the dark side.
That's correct, but you asked about sex.
Right.
So, listen.
People say, you know, oh, they find it hard to believe in God because of...
You know, all the unjust suffering in the world.
And they're referring to human evil and to natural suffering.
Earthquakes, cancer, etc.
And then the answer, which I've always given, is, look, human evil you blame on humans.
I understand blaming God for cancer and earthquakes.
Fine.
That's a problem.
Okay?
I agree.
But I have come to believe that given the amount of evil and sadism in the human species, The cruelty that has been so widely exhibited.
It's a question vis-a-vis God.
Why couldn't you have made a human being just incapable of enjoying, inflicting horrible pain on humans or even animals?
Now, look, I also want to say...
When I say I've made peace with my dark side, my dark side is not in that realm.
Of course.
Not even of course.
You can't know my inner being.
But I'm just saying my dark side is basically in the erotic realm where all men's dark side are.
But the idea that I want to abuse a child or torture an animal...
If I did have a desire to torture animals or abuse children, I would be plagued by the fact that I had dark thoughts.
I think I should have made that clear.
Thank God I don't have any of that, and so I don't have to wrestle with that.
We need to talk more about this next time.
Why do we have a dark side?
Why are there people who are born with that specific dark, a really, really dark side?
Our mutual friend, Dr. Marmer, that great psychiatrist, and there are very few great psychiatrists, he addresses this.
I should ask him.
Yeah.
We should have him on.
So I have asked him, can a man who...
Yearns for prepubescent children sexually.
Right.
Can that person be reformed?
And he said no.
That doesn't shock me.
That's very sad.
You tell a man like me, and most men are like me, a prepubescent child is not the object of any sexual thought.
Period.
You might as well tell me I'm attracted to a lima bean.
A prepubescent child is a non-sexual being.
I mean, period.
Just like a tree.
Right.
But if you find in them some sexual yearning, I pity you.
And I mean it.
I'm serious.
To be cursed with that desire, that's a curse.
This really should be the subject of our next show.
A subject.
That's true.
We should count how many subjects we go through in one.
It's incredible.
That's true.
Well, you can learn about all the subjects if you go to our social media at DennisJuliePod on Instagram and Twitter and Dennis and Julie Podcast on Facebook.
And we look forward to seeing you next time when we'll talk about Dark Sides.
Everything in life.
Happy sides, everything.
That is correct.
It's so fun being with you.
Thank you very much for tuning in.
Thank you so much for always writing to me.
I tell Dennis about...
I got an email from an 18-year-old freshman at Duke who said that this podcast has influenced her.
You have a moral obligation to send this to every young person you know.
Yes, yes, you do.
And email me at julie at julie-hatman.com.
And you can watch it.
And watch it on YouTube.
Yep.
Bye, everyone.
Bye.
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