All Episodes
June 2, 2022 - Dennis Prager Show
01:07:12
Graduation, Gun Control, and the Heteronormative
| Copy link to current segment

Time Text
Hey everybody, Dennis Prager here.
This is Dennis and Julie.
Dennis Prager, Julie Hartman.
This is a big one.
The first time we're doing our podcast together physically.
Yes.
No longer are you seeing my Matisse prints in the background of my dorm.
Do you remember those?
I never saw your Matisse prints.
Oh, really?
All I saw was a bookcase, which I think was largely empty.
Oh, are you kidding?
It was...
It was filled.
Mostly with your books, actually.
You know, it's funny.
That's funny.
It's nice to have a microphone here that is a normal mic.
What I would do...
Oh, that's right.
Oh, my God.
I'm letting you listeners in on a secret.
I would...
I had this small microphone, and Sean, our lovely producer, would say, you need to put it closer to your face.
And so I would take my books and stack it on there, and the books that I had were Alexis de Tocqueville's Democracy in America and the Federalist Papers.
So those are pretty good books to stack my mic on for this podcast.
There are very few people who would tell you what the names of the books they stack their microphone on.
That's funny.
So here's my secret.
I broadcast this week from Pennsylvania.
And last week from Florida.
And for the video part, I put my laptop with the Skype on the top of an ice bucket.
Really?
Yes.
By the way, I have seen Dennis, everyone, do Fox News interviews.
He puts his computer on top of his lunchbox, which is down here.
That's right.
I don't have an ice bucket here.
Exactly.
Anyway, it's a very big deal.
We're in person.
It is.
As we will be.
God willing, for many years.
That's right.
God willing.
So welcome.
Look, there's stuff to talk about, about the world and American life and all of that, but I've got to say, I've got you here now within five days of your graduating college.
Yes.
And so...
I just want people to know we don't rehearse this stuff.
No.
So I don't know what you'll say.
So here's one to begin with.
So you graduated Harvard last week, and, you know, the H-bomb.
We all know.
You know H is an H-bomb.
We all know it.
Okay.
So having recognized the elephant in the room, we'll put it aside.
Whether it's Harvard or wherever, What was your happiness level at your graduation, 1 to 10?
10. I was thrilled.
I was very proud of myself.
I worked so hard to get into that university.
I worked very hard at that school.
And, you know, I was so proud of myself because...
Larry Backow, our president, he opened the commencement by saying, think of the person you were when you came into this yard on your first day of classes.
We had, oh gosh, what's it called?
Not commencement.
Convocation.
We had a convocation ceremony when we were freshmen sitting there.
And the thing I thought of was...
Boy, now I'm graduating and I know Dennis and I have this podcast with him and I'm working for Salem and I've really developed intellectually.
I've become conservative and that's why I was a 10 because I'm so proud of the person that I've become.
Oh, that's true.
I didn't think of it that way.
Everybody's different after four years, but you...
It's dramatic, your life.
You know, it is and it isn't, because I know we've talked about this.
On the one hand, it is dramatic, obviously, because look at, I'm sitting across from you and I have this amazing professional journey I'm embarking on, and more importantly, this intellectual journey.
But also, you know...
I like to say that I became conservative, but I sort of think I always had those beliefs.
And when I discovered you, and when I discovered PragerU, it just kind of gave me the vocabulary to express it.
Okay, I have a theory on that.
People come over to me a lot, and it's very moving, and I believe them.
I don't believe in false humility or false modesty.
So they say, you know, I just want you to know you changed my life.
And my standard answer to them, you'll find of interest.
I say, you must understand, you get exactly half the credit.
You know how many people hear me and nothing happens?
Obviously, there was something in you that resonated to just the sheer logic of these ideas, the decency of them.
So you're right, but somebody has to trigger it, or it lies dormant.
So both are true.
You know, sometimes I think to myself, am I an original thinker?
I'm very hard on myself, as you know, and I think, God, you know, should I have just sort of come to this on my own?
You know, why did I need a dentist or need a PragerU?
But then I thought, to your point, Dennis, you know, part of life is when people point you in the right direction, you have to have the wisdom and the judgment to be able to recognize that it's a good thing and adopt it.
So for that reason, you're right.
I'm proud of myself.
That's right.
Look, Viktor Frankl sort of did for me in some ways what I did for you in his book Man's Search for Meaning.
Two life-changing things.
Three life-changing things.
One, the need for meaning is the greatest need we have beyond food.
Only food is more.
Number two, that we have the only freedom that we ultimately have.
Is how we react.
We have no freedom on what happens to us.
The only freedom we have is how we react, which he learned from the Nazi concentration camp.
He had no freedom except how to react.
And number three, that even after losing his wife and his family, members of his family to the Nazis, he was asked after the war...
Do you hate the German race?
That's the way they put it in those days.
And he said, of course not.
There are only two races, the decent and the indecent, which became the motto of my life.
So all of them were not brand new in the sense, oh, I never heard of that idea.
But I needed somebody to articulate it.
Yes.
So I totally get what you say.
But when I asked you your happiness level on graduation day, so I don't...
Look, you say, so I didn't know what you would say.
I thought you might say 10 or 9. I knew it was high.
But I wasn't sure exactly why.
And it was because you're happy with your life at this moment is basically what you said.
And who I am.
But the graduation itself, was that a happiness inducer?
Well...
I'll answer that in two ways.
First of all, coming into the graduation, I saw my parent.
I mean, Harvard graduation is a zoo.
I think there are 32,000 people in the yard because they have the law school and the business school and undergrads and all of the parents and siblings.
And I walked in, and from across the yard, miraculously, I saw my parents.
And they were just...
Beaming with pride and waving and I was waving at them and it was just it was one of the happiest moments of my life really I'll never forget it because yes it's an accomplishment for me but it's a it's a huge moment for my parents.
I have the chills actually.
Your parents are wonderful people.
Thank you.
I'm very very happy for them.
I did not provide my parents with the same joy.
A, I didn't even go to my college graduation.
You asked me right before, what did I do?
And I either went to the movies or I wasn't in the U.S. I don't remember which.
I know it's bizarre.
But that's how little...
It didn't mean anything to me.
And it's no knock.
I went to Brooklyn College.
I'm very grateful for a whole...
A bunch of other reasons.
But it's not exactly Harvard, to say the least.
And there were 2,500 graduates.
You had 1,600?
Yes.
So it is comparable in that way.
Anyway, it truly didn't mean anything to me, to be honest.
And I'm sure had I gone to Harvard, I probably would have gone to the graduation.
You, I will say, though, you got stuck with the speaker.
Well, that's the second.
I said I was going to answer the question in two ways.
The first way was, you know, I said I saw my parents and it was truly very touching and I started crying when I saw them.
But to answer your question about whether the ceremony itself was happiness inducing, it worried me.
I left the ceremony feeling like, I mean, I expected it to be woke.
I expected it to...
Be left-wing, but it was something else.
First of all, they played the national anthem at the beginning of the ceremony, and I saw that on the program, and I thought, oh my gosh, I can't believe that they're doing this.
I was stunned.
But then when they played it, first of all, no one sang it.
It was just music.
And I thought that was interesting.
Why is no one singing along?
It's such a...
Such beautiful lyrics, such beautiful messages.
Why aren't people singing it?
And second of all, which was very interesting, it was...
It was sort of funky.
It was sort of like a modern take on the anthem, which was nice in some ways.
But they didn't want to sound too patriotic.
Yeah, it didn't sound exactly like the anthem.
It's not that it didn't sound like the anthem, but it was clearly not traditional.
And so I took note of that because I thought this is, I think, a little bit of a way to disguise the anthem.
Or, of course, to not embrace it in its full traditional form.
So that was the first thing that caught my attention.
The second thing was, up on that stage, they have the members of the Board of Overseers.
What an aptly named group, by the way.
Board of Overseers instead of Board of Trustees.
And they have, you know, all these dignitaries and people who they're awarding honorary degrees.
Ready for who was up on the stage?
Gloria Steinem.
They gave Gloria Steinem an honorary degree.
Ketanji Brown Jackson was up there.
They didn't give her one because she went to Harvard for undergrad.
Then she went to the law school, and she was previously a member of the Board of Overseers.
And then there was Jacinda Ardern, who is the Prime Minister of New Zealand.
Who was our commencement speaker, as you just noted.
And I was sitting there.
We're not even getting into Jacinda's speech yet.
I'll talk to you about that next.
But just that plain fact, those people up there on the stage, I thought, you know, for all that these individuals talk about reaching across the aisle and, you know, having dialogue and being exposed to opinions that are different, they're all left-wing people up on this stage.
Are they not aware?
Who think the same on every single issue?
Yes.
Why do you think they are so unaware?
Or I guess they are aware and they don't care.
No, actually my theory is that leftists are not self-aware.
I've had that sense for many years.
Anyway, go on.
Well, the Prime Minister of New Zealand gave the commencement address and I'm actually going to compliment her first and then I'll tell you what I didn't like about the speech.
You know, she was a very composed, articulate speaker.
And one of the things Zite took away was her tone was very nice and conciliatory and thoughtful.
And I remember throughout the speech thinking, even though I don't agree with just about anything she says, I wanted to root for her because of the way that she came across.
And, you know, as I'm entering this world of...
The professional media world where I'm going to be espousing conservative beliefs and trying to win people over.
I took note of that because I thought I should really try to have a good tone and sound conciliant.
Not that it should be disingenuous, but as you know, Dennis, your tone matters so much.
And again, even though I disagreed with her, I wanted to root for her, so that was something I took away.
By the way, that's a biggie.
It is a biggie.
I know in my own life, and people say they love my calm, that it's a big factor.
Well, I remember, if I can take myself back to when I first discovered you, I remember that made a big impression on me because you sounded kind.
So many of these pundits, and I'll say it on the right, they sound so angry.
And you don't.
And neither did this woman.
And it's powerful.
It's powerful, not just if you're, you know, in front of a microphone speaking to thousands of people, but it's powerful in your own life when you're having a debate with someone.
It's so important the way that you come across in your tone.
Now on to the speech, which was concerning.
The speech, to me, her points, the sort of message I got from the speech, even though she didn't say it overtly, was New Zealand is doing everything right, and you Americans somehow can't do what we've done.
And so she said at one point, she was listing her objectives or her accomplishments in office, and she was saying, you know, when I got into office, I tried to combat climate change, I tried to combat child poverty.
I decriminalized abortion, and when she said it, everyone, everyone in the yard stood up and clapped and whistled and wooed when she said decriminalize abortion.
And before I go on to the next thing she said, which is also very interesting, I thought that was so weird, Dennis.
Even if you agree that abortion should be decriminalized, there was something that did not sit well with me about people Seeming so happy.
I mean, this is a very, very difficult, tragic, regrettable thing, having an abortion.
And if people clapped in support of her policy, fine.
But the demonstration of joy.
She said, we just found a cure for lung cancer in New Zealand.
I don't think they would have been as ecstatic.
You're absolutely right.
They would not have.
They would have clapped.
Some people would have wooed.
But to have people just stand up in that way was striking.
I think you should tell everybody what you told me.
Somebody didn't stand.
I didn't stand.
I was the only one I could see who did not stand.
And I'm proud of that.
And I am proud of you.
Thank you.
That actually, if I were to tell maybe one story about you to someone who didn't know you, that is what I might say.
By the way, you don't know this parallel in my life.
It has nothing to do with politics.
But I remember when I was in my senior year in high school, every Sunday night that the New York Rangers hockey team played in Madison Square Garden, I grew up in New York, I would go to a game.
I've always loved hockey.
And I was then a Ranger fan.
The whole place was always sold out, of course.
And whenever there was a fight, every single person in Madison Square Garden stood and whooped it up and cheered.
One person didn't stand, and it was me.
The second you said that, and again, mine has nothing to do with politics, but it's not different.
I don't like cheering fights.
They're awful.
I go to see hockey.
I don't go to see fights.
Right.
And I love hockey, and I don't love the fights.
And anyway, everybody's cheering not for the guy who's right.
They're cheering for their guy to beat the hell out of the other guy.
In other words, it had nothing connected to right and wrong.
Right.
It was anarchy.
So in that sense, it's analogous.
But I'm only saying this because...
The role you play in my life is because of who you are and how I so relate as you can with me.
So when you said you were the only one who didn't stand, I went back to high school senior to remember when I was the only one who didn't stand.
It's powerful.
And you know, people around me, just as I was saying, people take note of your tone and the way that you communicate.
I saw people around me looking at me, and I hope that I provided an example, just as I'm sure people took note during that game when you didn't stand.
I hope it made an impression on people.
I know it would make an impression on me if I were one of the ones standing and I saw someone who didn't.
I wonder what went on in their minds.
They probably thought bigot.
Realistically, they probably didn't make an impression in the way I would want it to.
Well, first of all, In the ultimate analysis, if it made an impression on one person, it's a big deal.
Yes.
Let me just say a word about that, because you're really beginning your public life now.
It's a very big mistake for people to think quantity is everything.
Look at me.
I mean, look at this.
That's right.
You influenced me.
That is exactly correct.
Because if quantity is the biggest factor, then none of us will do enough good.
There are 7 billion people or whatever on this earth.
Right.
And 350 million or 330 million at this time in America.
So you want to touch as many lives as possible, but you can't.
I'll give you an interesting thing because you're going to be doing talk show a lot now because you'll be sitting in for a lot of Salem hosts, which is also amazing at 22 to have that.
As some of you may know, I just graduated from Harvard and I'm very proud of that accomplishment.
But I want to tell you about another great college in New York City, the King's College, which is a Christian liberal arts school in New York City's financial district, providing a disciplined curriculum with a Christian worldview, both in person and online.
Every program is rooted in a politics, philosophy, and economics core curriculum, which provides students with a framework for understanding the way the world works and how it's influenced.
Because of this, King's graduates are well-rounded, critical thinkers.
I actually had a Zoom call where I met with the president of King's College and many of their representatives and they're lovely people.
King's faculty pride themselves in not sharing their opinions on topics, but instead teaching the historical context that roots the issues of the day.
They told me that students come to King's to, quote, earn their opinion.
Faculty don't teach them what to think, but how to think.
Find out how you can attend the King's College in person or online today by visiting tkc.edu.
That's tkc.edu.
Don't just go to college, go to King's.
So I'll tell you a lesson I tell everybody who starts in talk radio.
If you see your board light up, meaning all calls coming in, it doesn't mean anything.
Right.
But every talk show host who begins thinks, I lit up the whole board.
An idiot can light up the board.
If they just say guns or abortion or, I don't know, any other emotional issue, of course you light up the board.
Right.
So it's very, very tempting to think quantitatively.
But ultimately the world is one by one by one.
And evil is done one by one by one, too.
Yes.
Anyway, so you didn't stand up, which I think is huge.
And then, you know, it's over.
You had one other thing that I was very touched.
You sent me a picture of your roommates.
So they were seven girls in all?
Six girls in total.
Oh, six girls in total.
And amazingly...
To the best of my knowledge, you like them.
I adore them.
I totally adore them.
So that's remarkable given how rare it is to have a conservative at Harvard.
Right.
So how do you explain it?
I just think that they share my values.
I mean, trust me, I don't think anyone in that room is conservative.
But I think that they respect me and that they appreciate me and they know who I am and they know the kind of friend and person.
That I am every day.
Well, this too is another enormous feather in your cap.
Thank you.
To be a conservative among non-conservatives and be liked.
That's a big deal.
I am pretty well.
I mean, of course, there are people I can tell you about, those people who are mean to me on campus or who give me dirty looks.
But honestly, Dennis, I was kind of stunned when I came back to school for my senior year.
I thought, oh my gosh, I just spent this whole summer being very public, working for you, being on your show, guest hosting.
I thought, you know, people aren't going to like me.
I'm not going to have friends.
And it wasn't that way.
Because again, I think people were able to see past my beliefs and they just...
I know I've said this, but I do think there is a part of people that is drawn to truth-tellers and drawn to people who are bold.
And that's why it's very apropos of our discussion.
We're having this discussion about influencing one person.
It's very powerful, and I hope I've done that.
And I've even seen it with my roommates.
I think in a small kind of way, even if they don't agree with me, they respect me, and I've influenced them just by the sheer fact that I'm being very open and honest and unapologetic with what I believe.
Because people aren't that way on Harvard's campus, or any of these college campuses.
Or anywhere, really.
Yes, exactly.
Well, look, it takes the rarest of traits.
Courage, obviously.
How do your parents react to your being an outlier?
They are so supportive.
I am so lucky.
You know, I say all the time I'm privileged, but the biggest privilege I have is that I have two parents in my house who are married who care for me and are in the boat rowing with me.
As you know, you've met my parents.
They're not as conservative as I am.
They don't agree with me on everything.
I was just having a debate with my dad last night.
On what?
On Trump, actually.
But they support what I'm doing, and they know how important you are to me, and I think they know how important this is for our country, even if they don't agree with everything.
So I know how lucky I am.
So I'll tell the story.
You know it, obviously.
But it meant a lot to me what I said to your father when he picked you up.
At a Shabbat dinner that you attended with me.
And it was about 11 o'clock at night.
And he goes, he's still in his car.
And he goes, just want to thank you for all you've done for Julie.
And as you know, I said to him immediately, I mean, I didn't have to think.
I said, I haven't done anything for Julie.
I've done this for America.
And then I asked you, how did he react?
He loved it.
He loved it.
He did?
Yes, he brings it up about once a week.
He thought it was very touching.
Thank you for saying that.
That's very touching.
Well, that's a good example of not overthinking because if I would have thought and thought, I would have thought, well, he's thanking me for what I did for you.
Why don't I just take the credit, you know, because I like his daughter so much.
But I... I've always gambled saying what was true or what I believed to be true.
And invariably it works.
Obviously there are times it doesn't, but overwhelmingly.
And so even though it didn't sound as loving to the daughter, you?
Oh, I think it's incredibly loving.
I think that's probably the best compliment you could have given.
Well, you're right.
But I understand what you're saying.
To the ear, it doesn't sound as loving.
Right, right.
But you're right.
Of course, it's the best compliment.
I'm helping America by helping your daughter.
That's a pretty big deal.
Right.
I couldn't agree more.
No, he brings that up a lot.
So you are less...
This is for posterity.
You will show this to your kids.
God willing, you'll have one day.
That's great.
Hello!
Exactly.
Here's Uncle Dennis.
That's right.
This is me without wrinkles.
Oh, that is hilarious.
A lot fewer wrinkles.
Yes, that's right.
This is precious stuff.
So, this is so close to leaving college.
So, college is a cocoon.
It doesn't matter what college.
It's just a cocoon.
It has almost no connection to the real world.
So, do you think your average classmate is ready for the real world?
No.
You are.
No, they're not.
No.
I mean, the obvious answer is that they are so hostile to beliefs that are not...
Well, actually, though, Dennis, sorry, I know I'm digressing here.
I used to think, okay, people aren't ready for the real world if they cannot tolerate differing opinions.
Honestly, though, this real world that they're entering into, especially all of my classmates who are going into finance and consulting and these sort of standard industries for Ivy League college graduates, they're also entering these echo chambers where they're not going to have to encounter beliefs.
Oh, yes, that's a very good point.
Maybe that's no longer true.
That's right.
That is exactly right.
They're not ready for the world as it should be, but maybe they are ready for this world.
They're going from cocoon to cocoon.
Especially if they stay in a big city like New York, or Boston for that matter.
Yep, and many of them are.
By the way, I told you earlier, this is a crack up to me.
So my wife who travels with me, thank God, a lot.
And so Sue can bear witness to how often people stop me and get a selfie with me, especially at airports.
So, by the way, I'm always touched by it.
It's never a bother ever.
The only airport that I can remember in the last decade not being stopped was Boston's Logan Airport.
I actually think I could walk through Boston pretty much anonymously.
That's a cocoon.
Well, I was just there, as you know, five days ago flying home.
The amount of people I saw wearing masks still, N95 masks, young people, young women walking throughout that airport, I thought, oh, Lord.
Oh, my gosh.
So that doesn't shock me.
So I have a theory that I developed on my, and I devoted an hour to it on my radio show.
And this is not common.
Alan, who you know is not Mr. Emotional, the living martyr, as we call him on my show.
This is Dennis' producer.
My producer.
He was so taken with that hour, he said, just do it over again tomorrow, which would have been today.
I didn't.
I just mentioned it in passing.
But if he's that taken, it means I've hit gold here.
So you'll find this.
I don't know if I've mentioned this to you, but it doesn't matter.
So, a dear friend of mine attending the wedding which brought me to Boston, who you know, just say David for...
I won't say his last name.
Anonymity.
Right.
So...
He was at the wedding.
He's a very gentle character, a very gentle human being, a wonderful man.
And he said, you know, I was struck.
A lot of these people in Boston were just friendly.
And that confirmed for me my theory, which I developed as a result of Minnesota.
What I call, what I don't call, it's just known as Minnesota nice.
People in Minnesota are known to be nice.
It's called Minnesota nice.
But they produced some really awful people in politics.
And in Minneapolis they produced a very terrible scene in 2020 with the riots and the burnings and the lootings.
And I concluded, and this is one of the biggest conclusions of my life, There is no relationship between nice and wise.
Or let me put it to you in a new phrase I literally came up with today.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
That's an old phrase.
Yes.
And it's a truism.
So what is the road to heaven paved with?
Wisdom.
Right.
And that is what people don't know.
They think the road to heaven and hell Are both paved with good intentions.
No.
Not true.
You know, I mean, obviously I had heard of the word wisdom prior to encountering your work, but I remember the first time that I really appreciated it as something powerful and necessary was when I read the Rational Bible in Genesis, because you were talking about, I believe it was in the first few pages, and you were talking about...
You said science teaches us how the world works, but it doesn't give us wisdom.
And that's why the Bible is so important, because it gives us wisdom.
And now, the W word...
You really read it.
Oh, I reread it.
Yes.
All the time.
No, I mean, I say this to you all the time, and I know I've said this on air.
I feel like such a suck-up sometimes when I talk about how much I read of yours.
It's not a suck-up.
Of course you would think so.
Well, no, no.
It's like saying I'm a suck-up to the Torah.
Right.
No, of course.
No, I just want people to understand that.
It doesn't even enter my mind.
But anyway, go on.
But you have no idea how big of an impact your work has had on me.
When I read it, it was like I was hit with a lightning bolt.
Truly.
And I reread it, and every time it's like I'm hit with a lightning bolt.
And that's why I gift your books to my friends.
Because...
It kills me.
I feel like if everyone just read Still the Best Hope, we would have so many more people leaving the left.
I know.
It kills me, as I know it kills you.
But also, look at how many people you've influenced.
Right, that's why you can't get arrogant and you can't get depressed.
You have to fight against both.
Because there's a case to be made in both directions.
I want to ask you, because you just said to me, how did I feel at my graduation on a scale of 1 to 10?
And I said I was so proud of who I am.
I am so proud of who I am.
How did you feel about yourself on your graduation day?
Are you the same person?
This is how much I open up about both of us to the world.
We have such parallel lives.
We do.
So, I graduated 21, you graduated 22. Same age, essentially.
And I knew I was special.
You know you're special, and it has nothing to do with arrogance.
Zero.
It's like saying, if you're a child prodigy on the piano, what are you going to deny you play the piano?
Well, I mean, it's absurd.
I can't stand false modesty, and I can't stand arrogance.
And by the way, you say that in the Torah.
You say when God declares his creations good, it's a lesson in showing that if you are creating something good, you should say it.
Now I'm just bragging, everyone.
Now I'm just showing off how much I love it.
Oh, no, I love it beyond words.
By the way, you'll love this.
You're not at it yet because the book hasn't come out yet.
When later in...
Which book is it?
Deuteronomy?
Is it...
It's either Deuteronomy or Numbers when it says, and Moses was the most humble man on earth.
And...
First of all, the tradition says Moses wrote this.
Moses is the most humble man on earth.
If you're the most humble man on earth, you can say it.
Humility doesn't mean denial of your good traits.
That's absurd.
That's false.
A humble person knows his worth.
Knows his flaws.
Knows his worth.
That's what it amounts to.
Anyway, so when I graduated college, I had, let me see, was it, yes, I had already been sent to the Soviet Union and my public life had begun.
I was a public figure at the same age you are.
That is what is so rare and such a parallel stream.
So I totally identify.
And I knew that I had to do something.
I felt...
Frankly, that I had a mission from God.
Not that God appointed me.
I never met God.
God never spoke to me.
Just want to make that clear.
By the way, I think everyone has a mission from God.
Agreed.
I don't at all think I am the only one.
But most people don't.
A biblical word would be appropriate here.
So I don't know if you're familiar, and I don't expect you to be, with the book of Jonah.
So this is awesome.
It's a small book of the Bible, the Hebrew Bible, the Old Testament.
So Jonah is called by God to go to the city called Nineveh and tell them to repent.
He doesn't want the role.
God speaks to him and he decides, frankly, I don't want to do it.
He goes onto a boat to escape.
Like you could escape God, which is almost hilarious.
And then it's the famous part where there's such storms and the nice, really wonderful non-Israelites, non-Hebrews on the boat think, oh, go.
They finally figure out the storms are because of Jonah.
And they all decide, we feel terrible, but we've got to throw him overboard or we're all going to drown.
And that's when the whale, that's Jonah and the whale.
Oh!
So that's when the whale comes.
It's a phenomenal story.
It's one of my favorites.
God, I've got to reread all this.
So here is my theory, especially about the Jews.
The Jews are all Jonah.
The Jews have a mission from God, and they're all going on boats to escape it.
Oh, how interesting.
Of course you're talking about secular left-wing Jews.
That's exactly correct, yes.
Right.
By the way, even many religious Jews, they don't talk to the world.
Right.
So you felt like you had a mission from God when you were my age.
Yes.
Because earlier in this conversation, I said, you know, we talk about my change in life being drastic.
That is, my becoming conservative.
But I said, I feel like I always had it in me.
You also have told me, and you've told the world, that you were a liberal once.
Was it the same thing where you feel like you said...
No, no.
Oh, really?
No, I didn't have that because...
I always hated the left because the left didn't hate communism.
I knew it was not a good movement.
Right.
If you can't hate evil, you're...
So you really did have a 180?
I never had a 180. Oh, okay.
Right.
Because I tell my liberal relatives, I say, tell me one value I had when I was a liberal that I don't have today.
Okay, I misunderstood you.
I thought you were saying something different.
Yeah.
This makes much more sense because we are aligned that way.
So you did have it in you.
Right.
Well, exactly.
So yours is more dramatic in that sense.
The dividing line between Julie A and Julie B, even though it was always in you, I don't have that divide.
The only dividing line really was when I became a Republican.
Which was unbelievably difficult because you are raised, when you're a Jewish New Yorker, especially when you went to Columbia, the combination, you, it is a given you're a liberal and it's a given you're a Democrat.
Yes.
So when I voted the first time Republican, and by the way, talk about influence, this was a sea change.
Reagan changed me with one sentence.
You know, we have five-minute videos at PragerU, and people say, what can you do in five minutes?
So much.
Of course.
Reagan did it in one sentence.
Government is not the solution, it's the problem.
And that is what made me a Republican.
Everything, everything resides on small government.
Everything.
By the way, the whole gun issue, you know, because of Uvalde, which is now, so it's dominant, the kid killing these 19 kids and two teachers, I mean, it's beyond belief.
As you know, Mike Lindell strives to help everyone get the best sleep of their life.
He didn't stop by simply creating the best pillow.
Now, he's done it again by introducing his MySlippers.
For a limited time, you will save $90 on a pair of MySlippers.
This sale of the year won't last, so order now.
Mike has taken two years to develop this product.
They're designed to be worn indoors and outdoors all day long.
They're made with MyPillow foam and impact gel to help prevent fatigue, and they're also made with quality leather suede.
Call 1-800-566-6745 and use the promo code Hartman, that's my last name, H-A-R-T-M-A-N, or go to MyPillow.com and click on the radio listener square and use the promo code Hartman.
So we're talking about Uvalde and the horror that just went on in that school there with this kid.
And people are talking about guns and guns and guns.
I realized this goes back to what I was just talking to you about, the founders.
Everything revolves about small government.
I just want to make this point for a minute, Julie.
Please.
Because people don't think this way at all.
In the 20th century, 100 million civilians, not combatants, not talking war, were murdered.
I don't want to fill in the bar yet.
Who murdered them?
In every case but Rwanda, which is one million, by big government.
Why doesn't anybody talk about that?
Well, one of the things, Dennis, that I say to my peers, because we have this debate all of the time, where, you know, big government versus small government, of course, they're big proponents of big government.
I say to them, what is the difference between the KKK and the Nazi regime?
Both of them are evil, horrid, wretched, you know, groups.
But the difference is that the Nazis were able to yield so much more power.
Because they're government.
Yes.
Because the KKK is not a government organization.
So this is what I realized.
That's what the gun issue is about.
The reason there is a constitutional right to own a gun in America is because the founders wanted people to have power.
Right.
It's not a gun issue.
It's a power issue.
Who's going to have all the power?
The state or the state and the citizen?
They weren't anarchists.
They believed in government.
Right.
But that was their genius.
And that is why the left hates guns.
The left doesn't hate guns because they kill people.
They hate guns because they give people power.
And all power should reside in the state.
Whether the state is Washington, D.C. or the state is Brussels.
For Europe, it doesn't matter.
Or New York for the United Nations.
That's what they want power to reside in.
And unless you believe people are basically good, among the stupidest things people could believe, the last thing you want is for power to be concentrated in a few hands.
Right.
That's how big this issue is.
Boy, this gun issue.
Well, one of the things that I was going to say earlier, because I was listing the points that Jacinda Ardern made, and so she listed the climate change thing, the child poverty thing, then she did the decriminalizing abortion when everyone stood up, and then the next thing she said was, we banned semi-automatic rifles.
People had just sat down after the abortion thing, and then they all got up again and cheered.
I did not stand up during that either, because Honestly, because I hadn't done a lot of research at that point, obviously I'd heard about the terrible, terrible massacre in Texas, but I wanted to do my research before I endorsed an opinion like that.
You know, of course, I believe that, as I know you do, that many on the left, in their desire to enact gun control, are coming from a good place and that they hate the prevalence of these mass shootings and they really do believe that this is the solution.
After doing my research, I see it a bit differently.
I mean, I'm very interested to hear what you think, Dennis.
First of all, I don't think an 18-year-old should be able to have a weapon like that.
I think that's crazy.
I took that position on my radio show.
That's crazy.
The problem is the constitutional one.
Right.
Because there's no age specification.
Look, we do give...
It's a tough question.
I still tend to what you just said.
Right.
But of course we give them weapons when they join the armed forces.
Right.
And you'll say, well, that's under controlled environment, but so what?
A soldier went berserk at Fort Hood a few years ago, the Islamist doctor, and he shot up his whole, you know...
Regiment or what?
No, not that many, but the guys in his own cabin.
He just murdered, mass murdered.
Right.
With a weapon that obviously he had.
Right.
So we do, he wasn't 18, but we do give it to 18-year-olds.
Right.
I just think that's far too young.
Even, I mean, this is a separate discussion.
I don't even know why people should be able to have weapons of that kind, but my point is...
Well, we don't know what kind.
I don't know if it was more than a handgun or a right...
He had a...
Did he have an AR type?
I am not well versed in the language of guns, but it was a massive, massive weapon.
By the way, you know he spent $4,000 on weapons and ammunition?
Where did he get that money?
I don't know.
I heard that he worked at a Wendy's or a McDonald's.
Yeah, well, you don't get that money.
Yeah, it's weird.
It's weird.
But, you know, although I do think an 18-year-old should not have a weapon like that, honestly, I'm starting to think people in general should not be able to have that kind of weapons.
Of course, handguns are one thing, but...
The thing that I don't hear people talking about, especially people my age, is that this shooter, alongside many other school shooters, did not have a father in the home.
He came from a very broken family.
He displayed signs of being a lunatic prior to the shooting.
His classmates said that he would brag about abusing animals, and there's a video of him where he's holding a bag of dead cats, which is especially eerie because Nicholas Cruz, who was the shooter in Parkland back in 2018, I was just reading a heritage report that said 75% of
school shooters in the past 50 years have come from broken homes.
By the way, even broken home is not a good...
Right, it's broad.
Theoretically, my kids come from broken homes.
I've been divorced, but I stayed their father.
So the issue is fathers, not divorce.
Yes, it is.
And that's the thing that...
Look, I'm...
When I hear people talking about this, I'm willing to say, as I just did, that I do think that there are some gun reforms that should happen.
Right.
On the AR thing, I just want to tell you two quick things, because I've thought about it, too.
Emotionally, I agree with you, but not intellectually.
Right.
Number one, never, literally never.
In other words, I'm not using it for dramatic effect.
The left never stops.
Totally.
Totally, totally agree.
The moment you ban X, you will ban Y, okay?
It is as given as the sun rises in the east.
Number two, this will not prevent one bad guy from getting that weapon.
There are 400 million guns in America, and I don't know, or a quarter of them of the AR type, or a tenth of them.
We're still throwing tens of millions.
All we do is prevent innocent people from the ability to defend themselves against bad people who have such weapons.
Right.
No, Dennis, I completely agree with you.
I think, you know, if we think about this emotionally, yes, I have those positions.
But also, if you just think about it from a practical standpoint, you're right.
There are more guns than citizens in the United States.
And also...
Yes, that's right.
A lot of my peers who are very pro-gun control, I can understand emotionally where they're coming from, and there are specific things that I agree on, but as far as a policy point of view, I don't think that gun control will do much.
We have to focus so much more on father absence, which, you know, this is the thing that frustrates me.
I am willing to say that maybe there are some parts of our gun laws that are not kosher.
They will never...
That's key.
Never!
And the thing that I want to ask people on the left is, what kind of responsibility do you think you bear for this?
You know, they're all blaming it on guns, and they're all blaming it on conservatives, but there is a huge, huge cultural problem here that people are not at all paying attention to.
And, you know, even that, it was interesting when I was reading about that sick shooter who had the...
I thought to myself, you know, nowadays these things are kind of seen as just like alternative lifestyles.
They're not these, you know, I mean, of course, someone who's on the left, like an average person who I would speak to would probably say that abusing animals and having a bag of cats is bad.
But my point is...
A lot of people are so afraid to call things evil or so afraid to call things wrong because it's someone's truth or it's just someone's lifestyle, and we have to get away from that.
We have to start calling things evil and prosecuting people for these things.
And this lax culture of wrongdoing, and we see it all the time with...
People condoning criminal culture and giving them a pass.
I think that has contributed more than people think, too.
Well, more than guns.
Way more than guns, I think.
Your point that we wrestle with the issue of what type of guns and what age, but they don't wrestle with any issue.
No.
The moment you say fathers, they just call you racist or whatever they will call you.
I read an L.A. Times opinion piece today.
The stupid people who speak about God and fathers.
What do they know?
It's unbelievable.
So I've asked the question, because to me it does go back, this stuff does go back to God and religion, which the left hates when you say.
They hate it.
And I know why, but it's a separate subject.
But I just asked the simple question.
How many murderers in prison?
Went to church the Sunday prior to their murder.
How many?
So since 40% of Americans go to church or some other house of prayer every week, you would think if it has no effect, 40% of murderers should have been churchgoers.
But what if it's a half a percent?
What if it's 80 times underrepresented?
Right.
Why isn't that more effective?
Why isn't God, religion, Bible, religious community more effective than gun control?
And that's what I'd like to have an answer to.
Well, if you look at the statistics, which by the way, President Obama, you know, back before he became uber-leftist, would openly talk about it.
He talked about it in his 2013 Morehouse College commencement address.
If you look at the statistics of high school and college dropout rates and incarceration rates, it's...
All linked to father absence.
And the thing that I say to people is, if we discovered that serving orange juice to children in schools...
Led to the outcome of having 75% of them drop out.
Basically, if we substituted the term fatherlessness or father absence for something more benign orange juice, people would be up in arms and they would want to get rid of it.
Why are they so hostile to this idea of fatherlessness?
Before I want to hear your answer, I want to say this one other thing before I forget.
What drives me crazy is that the people who say that fatherlessness doesn't matter or these bourgeoisie, middle-class virtues don't matter, they practice them.
I had a debate recently with an older gentleman who is libertarian, and we were talking about polygamy.
And he said to me, oh, I don't care about polygamy.
It should be legal.
Who cares?
He's very obviously libertarian in that way.
And I said to him, With all due respect, may I ask you, if your child came home, your son, and said to you, Hey, Dad, just want to let you know I've got three wives and I'm giving you 12 grandchildren, you know, four for each wife.
I said, How would you feel about that?
Would you really, truly be okay with that?
And he got very quiet and he said, Well, I think I would, which is a lie.
I could see that it was dawning on him.
And that, to me, is the...
I'm sorry if this sounds too harsh.
It's the ultimate form of fraudulence.
It is so...
I mean, these people talk about privilege and helping...
It's not just fraudulence, it's arrogance.
Yes.
I know what's good for me, but I would never think it might be good for another person.
Right.
Because you're not on my level.
Right.
You can't live by such rules that I live by.
In the final analysis, there's really a lot of that.
So you will love, in light of what you just said, a line I give to my liberal relatives.
And I say, you know, I just wish you would preach what you practice.
Well, you said a few years ago on air, and I... Of course, I watched reruns, and when I heard this, I wrote it down.
You said there are two types of hypocrisy in life, not practicing what you preach and not preaching what you practice.
And that's your very point.
And boy, is that true.
I wrote that down and put that on my wall, actually, because I see it.
Everywhere.
But back to my question, I'm very interested to hear your response.
What is it about fatherlessness in that issue that so gets people angry?
By the way, to my point and to your point, the people who get the most angry about it are oftentimes the ones who have had fathers in the home, who, you know, I see my friends.
Well, it's the preach, watch, or practice thing, again.
Because they had the privilege of having a father in their life.
What is it about it?
Anything that says that America is not responsible, but the bad guy is, bothers them.
And anything resembling a traditional, God forbid, Christian way of life.
Yes.
One could write up A through Z curse words for liberals.
And traditional would be one of them.
That is so funny.
We should do that.
We should write down curse words for liberals.
Christianity, traditional.
I had a piece of the Wall Street Journal years ago.
You're right.
Let's work on that.
Let's do it.
Next episode.
We're doing it.
Or we'll write it up and submit it.
But you would love this.
A glossary of liberal terms.
In other words, a living dictionary of what term the left will use and what they really mean by it.
So I will show it to you.
It was in the Wall Street Journal in the 1990s.
What year were you born?
99. That's really funny.
It's BJ before Julie.
I love that.
That's so funny.
We're going to start using that.
B.C., A.D., whatever.
Well, by the way, I have a new B.C. before COVID because that really is B.C. You know, my dad said to me last night, The whole political discussion.
He was agreeing with me.
We were talking about COVID. And he said to me, boy, I've lived through a lot of things.
I lived through the Vietnam War.
I've lived through 9-11.
All the things that you have lived through, Dennis.
He said, I think our world is so different after COVID in a way that I haven't seen after these other big events.
That's right.
Would you agree?
Yeah, totally.
But I never say COVID. The BC was...
Just to point out that I know how the world has changed, but it's not really.
It's BL, before lockdown.
It wasn't COVID that changed the world.
It was the lockdowns.
And by the way, Dennis, back to the Jacinda Ardern speech, I thought this was so interesting.
She never mentioned COVID. That is interesting.
Never mentioned COVID. Because New Zealand was known for its lockdowns.
Yes.
And so she mentioned all these other policies.
She never mentioned COVID. Because she was talking about, again, the policies that she has tried to enact or has successfully enacted as prime minister.
She never talked about her COVID response.
If you had graduated from Brooklyn College, would you have gone to your graduation?
I probably would have.
Yeah, I think so.
By the way, I'm talking about...
The bad parts of the graduation.
It really was a beautiful ceremony.
No, no, I totally believe that.
I'm sure they know how to do this stuff.
They got it down to a heart.
And it was a joyous day, but I think I would have.
How woke is the president of Harvard?
He's pretty woke.
What's his name again?
Larry Bacow.
He's pretty woke.
I mean, you're the president of Harvard.
That comes with the job.
They wouldn't hire him if he weren't woke.
Another point I want to make while we're talking about Jacinda Ardern.
That I thought was interesting.
So I said at the beginning of this episode that the overall message that I got, although she did not say it overtly in her speech, was that New Zealand gets all these things right and you Americans don't.
It's a very interesting part of the speech where she said, you know, 50% of our parliament members are women, 20% are the indigenous population of New Zealand, and...
I forget, but some high-level government official, she said, is a proud gay man and stands aside several other rainbow parliamentarians.
So, of course, everyone gets up and starts clapping and wooing and whistling.
And I thought to myself, you know...
Does it not occur to people that New Zealand is a population of 5 million?
You cannot compare it to...
So all of my peers afterwards that are saying, oh my gosh, New Zealand does it so well, it drives me crazy because you just can't compare the two.
It's like when the left compares us to Europe.
So here's what goes on in my mind.
Did they stand up or just cheer loudly with the LGBT members of New Zealand Parliament?
To be honest, I can't remember.
I remember they stood up for abortion and for guns.
I can't remember that part, but it was overwhelming.
Overwhelming cheer, right.
Yes.
So here's the question.
Is it because of some great love for gays, lesbians, bisexuals, and transgender?
I don't think so.
What this is really about is...
This is a rejection of Judeo-Christian Western norms.
They even use the term heteronormativity.
The idea that you could say...
Oh, so let me share with you something with our listeners slash viewers.
So I was at the bar mitzvah of a couple in Florida with whom I'm very close.
My wife and I are very close.
We are godparents.
To their two boys, one of whom was bar mitzvah this past weekend, and I spoke at the bar mitzvah.
So it will come as some, perhaps, shock, but certainly interest to those listening, that this is two men.
This is a gay couple married.
I was the speaker at their son's bar mitzvah.
My wife and I are the godparents to their children.
And yet to any leftist who's aware of me, I'm a homophobe.
Now why am I a homophobe?
I don't know if we dealt with this because I know this was always an issue that you felt here would be one of the few examples where we might differ on gay marriage and so on.
But they know my position.
So why am I raising this?
Not just to make the point of the absurdity of me being a homophobe, but the heteronormativity line.
So I'm very, very close to another gay couple, two guys, and he said, to his great credit, he said to me, he said, Dennis, I completely agree that the ideal is a mother and a father.
What am I, out of my mind?
It's just obviously not an option for a gay man.
I'm not attracted to women.
There's nothing I can do about it.
And I go, exactly.
And that's one of the reasons I love you and your partner, or you, in this case, your husband.
But the left, the heterosexual left, will never acknowledge that mother and father is the ideal.
There is no such thing as the ideal.
And if the ideal emanates in any way from what is called Judeo-Christian, they loathe it.
So the cheering for LGBTQ plus at Harvard was not for L's and G's and B's and T's and Q's and pluses.
It was to cheer the downfall of normativity a la Judeo-Christian normativity.
That's what it is about.
You are absolutely right.
And another thing is that I think this is a huge reason why so many of the people stood up, not only during that part, but during the abortion and guns parts, too.
It's because they wanted people around them to see that they were standing up.
They don't even think about it deeply.
It's just they hear these lines.
The same way that you said, you know, you can get a lot of callers coming if you just say guns or abortion.
In that same way, when people hear decriminalize abortion or ban guns or LBG, it's like, it's just instinctual.
They don't even think about it.
They just stand up because they know that's on the list of policy decisions that I have to cheer loudly for, so that's what I'm going to do.
And they wanted everyone around them, all of their peers, to see them doing it.
That's why you wrote about the sheep?
I did.
The COVID. I was stunned that that didn't sort of bury you at school.
I was a bit stunned, too.
Again, you know, I... Well, to your credit, though, look, Julie wrote a real attack on her fellow Harvard students as sheep during the acceptance of these idiotic rules of masks and lockdowns and stay in your room and so on.
Your age group is more affected by suicide.
You know, more Americans under 65, forget under 25, under 65 in 2021 committed suicide than were killed by COVID. Really?
Yes.
Oh, wow.
Washington Post.
I didn't know it was that high.
I mean, I knew it was staggering, but my God.
That's right.
My God is right.
Oh, my gosh.
Yes.
See, again, no matter how much evidence you give to them about suicide rates or father absence or anything, they just shut it off.
They will not listen to it.
Well, what they would do is they would take the suicide rate and say, see, people shouldn't have guns.
Right.
That's what they would do with it.
Well, it's great to have you.
On that happy note.
Yeah, I know.
It's very hard.
On happy notes.
What was that, Sean?
Oh, yes.
Mention where people can email you.
Yes, you can email me at juliedashart.
Oh, no.
Not juliedashart.
Remember we had that whole thing where someone wrote in, forgive me.
I forget the name of the person who pointed this out to me.
But he said, it's not dash, it's hyphen.
So it's juliedashart.
Proves that Julie reads her mail.
I do read my mail.
And in fact, I didn't say this, but one of the reasons why I talked about guns today was because a lot of people wrote in and were interested to hear what we think.
So I do read them.
I do take your suggestions into account.
But please email me.
I will pass them along to Dennis.
And thanks to all of you.
I really mean this.
So many of you have written such lovely messages of congratulations about my graduation and such lovely messages about our podcast.
And boy, Dennis.
You have some really good listeners.
We have some really good listeners, but you all are great people, and it really means a lot to me.
Thank you.
See you next week.
Hey, what are you going to do, by the way?
Your address is harvard.edu.
When does that end?
They give you a year.
Thank God.
They give you a year, so you can still email me at that address.
Boy, it's really going to hit that I'm no longer a college student when that goes away.
Why do they take it away?
I mean, I understand.
You're not a student.
You're not affiliated with Harvard anymore.
All right, that's fine.
I wasn't saying it critically.
No, I know.
I was just curious.
Yeah.
I think that, you know, part of me think that they want more people to affiliate.
But I mean, yeah.
They probably want to get me off of the email.
Well, yeah, that's the other thing.
They can't control, really, then.
Right.
Who would use it.
Right.
Welcome back to Southern California.
Thank you.
I'm so happy to be here.
In person.
Yeah, it's a delight.
Well, everybody, please remind your friends, Dennis and Julie, because we do good stuff here.
I've never had a podcast with anybody in my life.
It's a joy, Julie.
It always is.
Export Selection