Jillian Michaels confronts body positivity activists, arguing that fat people lack discipline and citing lipotoxicity as a primary mortality driver. She accuses corporations like PepsiCo of co-opting the movement to sell addictive foods while dismissing "healthy at any size" messaging as dangerous misinformation. Activists counter that systemic issues and weight stigma drive poor health, defending the movement's civil rights roots against claims of corporate exploitation. The episode concludes with brief reactions to Caleb Hammer's financial advice and Liam Nelson's relationships before an early sign-off due to illness. [Automatically generated summary]
Welcome to another episode of Pearl Daily here on the Audacity Network.
Thank you guys so much for tuning in.
If anyone cares, I'm on book three of piano.
I know.
I know you guys are on the edge of your seats just wondering how far have you made it.
But, you know, I'm here to, you know, let you guys know.
I still haven't finished book three of guitar.
We're like doing the review.
It's killing me.
It's killing me.
All right, guys, you got to bear with me.
I'm a little bit sick today.
My throat is just, I don't know what it is.
But anyways, okay, so today we are going to be talking about fat people.
Just you guys know, I used to be 210 pounds.
And it's actually changed my life losing that weight.
And I've always felt like weight is my Achilles heel in life.
Like some people struggle with drugs.
Some people struggle with like taking dick every weekend, you know, like a different dick.
You know, I mean, that's their struggle in life.
My struggle has been that I have it in me to be a 500 pound.
I could look like this woman.
I really have it in me.
So when these fat people talk, I don't have a ton of sympathy because I have it in me to be an obese woman.
I really do.
Oh my God, that was so bad.
Fat people are going to keep beating as long as they keep on breathing.
Fatties are gonna eat.
You know you can't compete.
Fatties are gonna eat.
You know you can't compete.
I think you should be under 30% body fat to call into the show.
If you don't know your fat body fat percentage, it's probably too high.
It's probably too high.
Okay, so today we're reacting.
They've asked me to do this and maybe one day I will, but it just, I almost feel like arguing with somebody, it's like people this dumb is like insulting to my intelligence.
And it's not that I think I'm that intelligent.
I just think these people are that dumb.
You know?
So.
Body positivity has given me.
You have to like love yourself.
You have to invite love into the space.
By looking at yourself in the mirror and telling yourself, I'm beautiful.
It's not going to work.
It does.
It's an SNL skit.
Are Americans fat phobic and obsessed with unrealistic beauty standards?
Or has the body positivity movement normalized unhealthy habits and lifestyles?
I'm John Regalado, and today we're going to have a debate about what it means to be healthy.
Jillian, how are you feeling?
I feel good.
Debaters, you ready to come at Jillian with your best arguments?
All right, let's get into it.
Hi, I'm Jillian Michaels.
I'm a fitness expert and a health advocate.
And the GOAT.
Today I am surrounded by 20 body positivity activists.
All right, my first rounded claim is that obesity is not healthy and pretending it is puts lives at risk.
Do you want to be the first debater?
Get to the chair in three, two, one.
Hi, I'm Edie.
Nice to meet you.
I'm an eating disorder therapist.
I'm going to do my best to not use the O-word because I find it.
Like, you're so stupid.
You can't even use a word without getting offended.
I mean, that's a level of stupidity.
I got to give her props for sitting down with.
And I'm supposed to take you seriously?
Yeah, the most exercise they've had in their lives is walk into that chair.
I know.
It's pretty offensive.
So I'm going to use fat-bodied as we talk.
Okay.
Do you understand why people find it harmful and triggering?
Overweight and obese is literally just having too much body fat.
It has nothing to do with the quality of the person.
Yeah, I agree with you on that.
It means you have a negative trait, right?
And as someone that was overweight, it meant I lacked discipline to stop eating, right?
So.
Are we going to debate the claim?
Yeah, I just wanted to, yeah, I wanted to clarify, though.
You're going to pretend like I'm a three and you're my mommy telling me how to talk.
Wow.
Okay.
Okay.
So the claim that you're saying do this, they throw the first punch and then when she punches back, they say, oh, okay.
And like then they get offended.
Is that it is inherently unhealthy to live in a fat body.
It's inherently unhealthy to have excess body fat.
Yes.
Okay.
Where are you getting that information from?
Oh, okay.
There are dozens of MRT trials that show having excess body fat.
Dozens is causal, not correlated.
No, that's not true.
There's no disease that just fat-bodied people get.
I didn't say that.
I didn't say that.
But obesity lends itself to all-cause mortality across the board.
Have you heard of something called adiposopathy?
Okay, so you know it means literally sick fat.
And you understand how it works?
Okay, tell me how it works.
So it's an additional layer of fat in the stomach area.
No, that's not what it is.
It works as false.
When we eat too much food that has energy.
Oh my God, now she's pissed because that we're not utilizing.
The body needs to put that energy somewhere, right?
So it puts it in fat cells.
So it puts it in initially subcutaneous fat cells, a little bit of visceral fat, which is fat around the organs.
And at first you have hyperplasia, which means we're recruiting new little fat cells, which isn't necessarily a bad thing up to a point.
Now, the issue is that once you can no longer recruit more fat cells, right?
You get hypertrophy.
So the fat cells start to expand.
And this is exceptionally dangerous because what ends up happening is the blood vessels get outpaced.
So the fat cells can't get oxygen and they start screaming, literally.
And when they do, they release cytokines, inflammatory proteins, right?
I want to pause.
Of course you do want to pause because it's irrefutable.
You don't even know what I'm talking about.
So Jillian, okay, first of all, I don't appreciate the way that you're speaking to me.
You called me out for just.
Oh my gosh.
See this?
Women just can't take an L. You took an L, you looked stupid.
And now you're pretending you didn't look stupid.
Trying to understand the languaging and saying I was talking to like a three-year-old.
I felt like I was talking to you very respectfully.
You're talking to me very disrespectfully right now.
Here's the thing.
And I want to.
Because you're telling me you understand it, but you don't understand it.
You fundamentally accurately.
But what I understand is that.
What's lipotoxicity?
I don't want to talk because I am not.
Okay.
Here, I'm going to say this straight out.
I am not a medical doctor.
Okay.
So I'm not going to talk to you about medical diagnosis because that's outside my scope.
And I'm fully willing.
I'm fully willing to be wrong.
What I am here to talk to you about is the fact that people in fat bodies are irregularly harmed going into the medical system every single day because of the term, the O-word.
So that's what you want to litigate?
Yeah.
Okay.
That's not the claim, though.
The idea that fat-body people are inherently unhealthy is, I believe, incorrect.
Wrong.
No, I'm not wrong.
Vast amount of data.
I'm not wrong.
Okay, so let me finish.
You can't look at let me finish.
Let me finish my thought first.
You can't look at a person's body and tell whether or not Jillian's like a smart person.
And for a woman, I never call women smart, but she's actually a smart person.
Doug, why did you say that?
He says, Jillian's getting me hard right now.
She likes women, you know, but okay.
Not their, but tell their health status.
So fat is an endocrine.
You see what I mean?
It's like such a waste of her time arguing with such a stupid person, you know?
And that's what, you know, my father explained this to me.
Like, I would always be worried about the internet when I first got on it.
And my dad, he was like, why do you care about their opinions?
And I think men inherently size each other up and say, this person's retarded.
Why do I care?
But women, we don't know how retarded we are and we don't know how retarded other people are.
So an organ.
When it overgrows, it does wreak havoc in the body.
I didn't finish telling you what happens.
So when the oxygen can't get to those fat cells, they'll die and they'll rupture.
And then the immune system starts dumping macrophages in to try to clean it up.
But do you know what's even more unhealthy is weight cycling?
And as we talked about earlier, only except for your people who have a claim.
If you want to talk about that claim, we can.
The claim is.
So then what are you supposed to do though?
So let's say this person is in a fat body and they are inherently unhealthy, right?
We're telling they're unhealthy because they're in this.
Okay.
When I was fat, I stopped drinking 250.
I would get a 250 calorie caramel latte.
And a lot of times I would get two.
Now my latte drink, the highest calorie one I get is 100 calories.
So I can have two.
And that's, you know, like, and by the way, most of mine are like 50, but if I, if I'm really splurging, I'll get a 100 calorie one.
And it's just like little replacements that over time add up, you know.
Fat body.
What are they supposed to do?
Be more, significantly more prone to all-cause mortality.
For me, intentional weight loss fails 95 to 98% of the time.
So what is, you would probably know this better than me.
Because weight is not an individualistic pursuit.
You narrow it down to this idea that it's causal, like that they're just not trying hard enough.
But that is it's multifactorial, unquestionably.
A lot of people lose weight.
The problem, right, is that they put it back on.
Are we in agreement?
Yes.
Okay, great.
Why do you think we got to pause?
Damn it.
All right.
I'm sorry.
John.
I'm getting somewhere.
Yeah, but you're right.
Voted out by the majority.
Please return to your seat.
Okay.
Hello.
Hi.
I have lived in a fat body.
The fact that she has to convert, like, this is why I didn't want to do this show because I'm like, why do I have to converse with these people?
I have done enough.
I have conversed with losers.
I did it for two years straight.
That's my contribution.
Okay.
For like as long as I can remember.
And I've known very many fat people.
And I don't think any of us, the people that I know, I can only speak to the people that I know.
I don't think any of us are pretending that we're okay with it.
What I want to say here is I live with autoimmune disorders.
I live with chronic illness and I'm also neurodivergent.
But a lot of the disorders are caused by eating too much.
Like, you know, I noticed that my allergies aren't, I mean, they're still kind of bad, but they got less bad the more I lost weight.
You know.
So let's see.
And this is the body positivity movement has made it so that I can tolerate this life.
I can find ways to thrive, even still.
But I'm not pretending that this doesn't bother me.
And by bother, I mean that it doesn't hurt to carry my weight.
I'm willing to concede with you that carrying around extra weight is harder.
It is.
But it must be done.
I don't know that I agree with you.
Okay.
Tell me more.
Please.
Well, tell me why you think it must be done.
Because I've worked really hard to not have.
You can work hard and not work smart.
Like I used to run marathons in order to lose weight.
It's not, men always find the smartest way to lose weight.
Women, not so much.
We find like the most unintelligent way to do it.
This?
What does that mean?
Like you feel like you beat yourself up in the gym or something?
No, I don't.
That's not fun.
No, I'm not.
I'm just trying to understand what you mean.
What I mean is that I grew up with a number of undiagnosed conditions.
And even I can think back to like middle school.
And I couldn't keep up when the PE teacher would make us like run laps.
And I'm like, this is physically aching me.
And I didn't understand why.
And I didn't understand why because I grew up with a single parent, undocumented single parent.
Problem is, you probably are lacking life skills.
A lot of us are.
The skill of cooking and not eating too much.
So, and cleaning up after yourself.
We're bound to the medical system that we had access to.
I understand.
I've done what I needed to do a number of times to try to lose weight.
But I've done, done, I've worked at, I've worked out at the gym.
I've tried to do Pilates.
Even yoga hurts me.
How long have you done it?
Body Liberation Over Dieting00:05:27
Okay, so you could just do steps.
Like, honestly, if I was going to, someone at her size, every day, she has to be eating absurd like numbers.
Okay.
So my step one, I wouldn't even recommend working out.
That's too much for you to think about.
Okay, honey.
That's too many like exercise.
You're going to get overwhelmed.
All right.
Let's do step one.
You can get 10,000 steps a day.
Well, you know, we could even do eight.
You probably need 7,000.
You probably need to break 5,000.
Okay.
We'll start with 5,000 steps a day.
And then let's look at what we're eating because it's probably junk.
Exercise causes you pain.
The exercise causes condition.
Okay, no problem.
I'm with you.
Dieting, for example.
Okay.
That doesn't make any sense to me.
I don't think that food makes very much sense to me in my neurodivergent brain.
This is where mechanistic eating actually helps people who are neurodivergent.
And the research supports that because it doesn't have to make sense to you.
In other words, it's like you eat on these schedules and you eat these foods and you eat this much, hence the concept, right, of mechanism.
I don't like that.
I understand that you don't like it, but you'll have to decide which you don't like more.
Carrying the weight or the mechanistic eating?
Because I really could be helpful.
There are other ways forward, but you told me you tried them.
I've tried it.
I tried a whole lot.
There's a lot of other things to be concerned about.
I'm also a social worker.
I work with youth.
Oh, God help us.
God help us.
Oh, my God.
There are a lot.
Let's go back to you.
Uh-huh.
Yes.
I'm saying for me, right?
There are many things that I'm more concerned about than my weight.
My body is not the most interesting thing about you.
You brought up your weight and said, I don't see a way out of this.
Right.
And I just tell you in the ways that I can and I've found works for me.
But you just told me it didn't work for you.
All right.
Small William dreams of salmon.
But it works to an extent.
You just told me it didn't work for you.
It works to an extent.
And this is an irrelevant conversation if you're happy with it.
I stand on 10 toes, 10 toes down, that we are not pretending.
But there's healthy at any size.
There are absolutely elements and aspects of the movement that do put that messaging into the universe.
I've had those debates.
You've said I've had numerous debates with people.
Yeah, I mean, she's been doing this forever.
I mean, I used to watch, my mom used to cry while watching the biggest loser.
We would watch like them lose all the weight.
And then my mom would start crying.
People who are body positivity activists that try to tell me that they can be healthy at any size.
And it's just not the case.
And I disagree with that.
And I can do another thing.
You've used shame as a vehicle.
I'm sorry, we have to pause.
You've been loaded up by the majority.
what i'm curious about is if you care about people's health and you have people in front of you and i'm sure you have people online who are telling you that the body positivity movement or i prefer body liberation body justice body acceptance body blah all the all the good shit that we like actually increases their health, then I don't understand your debate.
Like, what are you debating if the fat people are telling you it makes their life better?
I'm debating their physical health and I'm debating the people who claim that you can be physically healthy at any size.
Okay.
Do you think you can be physically healthy and mentally unhealthy at the same time?
Of course, but that's not the claim.
Okay, sure.
I think the part where I get stuck, I am a mental health professional.
I work with people from a body liberation standpoint.
I work with people in all shapes of bodies.
What I know to be true from my experience is that body positivity, body liberation helps people take care of themselves.
It's very difficult to understand why you think somebody is going to take better care of a body they hate.
Like why body positivity would not inspire people to take better care of their body.
I never said you should hate your body.
In fact, you know, you shouldn't.
Okay.
So they don't think that.
What I think is that there are people in the movement who have co-opted healthy at any size and it went from access to health care to quite literally meaning for them that you can be healthy at any size.
And that's not true.
Okay.
I mean, the studies show that if you're very, very, very, very thin or your body is very, very, very, very big, it is more difficult to be healthy.
That is absolutely true.
But then you agree with me on this point.
I don't because I don't think body positivity is the dangerous thing.
I think hatred of fat bodies and people hating themselves and people living in self-loathing because they've been taught that their body is the wrong shape.
That's the danger.
Both can be true at once.
Take an L.
No, that's not true.
She's being way too patient.
She's being way too patient.
That's too bad.
She's a lesbian.
She would have, she's pretty.
She would have some pretty kids.
So let's look at this, right?
So, the first thing we would want to do, obviously, is incentivize somebody.
So it's like, okay, what's the why that's going to allow you to tolerate the how?
Hatred Of Fat Bodies00:14:33
But hold on, hold on.
That's the positive.
That's the inspiration piece.
Okay.
Now, here's the issue.
If that piece, if all the things that they get out of it don't serve them as much as the things they're getting out of being overweight, and it does provide quite a lot.
I can give you an example.
Wait, then they're not going unconsciously.
They will sabotage the change.
Can I give you an example so you'll understand it?
Okay.
There was a kid that I worked with.
Okay, on Biggest Lucas, 18 years old.
Okay.
He shows up with his dad, Ken.
They both lose like 100 pounds.
They go home and they're visiting their family.
It's the holidays.
Doors fly open.
And there's mom.
And mom starts crying.
And she's not crying tears of joy.
She feels like they're going to abandon her, like they broke the contract, like they've outgrown her.
And she becomes sad and she withdraws.
So what does the 18-year-old do?
He starts eating with mom again.
What does the food provide him?
A connection with his mom.
Oh, mothers leave their kids fat.
Like my brother had a friend, and I was like, I'm not going to say his name, but so-and-so.
I came back from England and he was fat.
And I'm like, what happened?
You weren't fat before.
And so every day we would work out and like run together.
And then his mother would be like, oh, why are you trying to eat healthier?
It's like, well.
With my dad.
This is one of the ways that we connected.
Food provides a lot of people with a lot of different things.
Yes, you cannot eat and not have your parasympathetic nervous system turn on at the same time.
There's no such thing as not emotional eating.
It's fine.
It's good.
It's great.
Food is great.
But what I'm trying to show you is that if in some cases the pain associated with continuing that defense mechanism is greater than the pain associated with change, it helps people change in some cases.
Not in the long term.
And I see.
Well, yeah, most people do go back, but some people do change.
And they do get better hat, mostly men, right?
Women will just stay fat forever, but mostly men.
Notice how most of the people arguing are women.
It's like women coping with being ugly.
Take the L, sis.
It's already been voted out by the majority.
Please return to your seat.
So we, earlier, you were speaking about how these, there's randomized control trials that are randomized control trials that have now shown us that obesity is causal to all-cause mortality.
Okay, so I disagree with that.
I think there's going to be a problem.
Oh, my God.
I disagree with that.
I mean, this is why arguing with women is impossible.
Look, we have eyes.
Fat people are dying.
Fat people are having heart attacks.
There's studies that also links it.
We look in the media.
There's examples of celebrities that are fat dying early.
Well, I don't agree with that.
Well, not every opinion is a valid opinion, right?
Not every opinion is an important opinion.
Yes.
Here's why I disagree.
Because you can disagree.
No, but let me, please, please, let me hear me.
Okay.
Okay.
So the reason why is because registered dietitian, school for six years, scientific, weights, all this stuff.
Yeah, but we don't really care.
I don't want to hear your title.
I want to hear your argument.
Personal trainers probably know more than nutrient.
I mean, your resume is your body.
Like, what does your body look like?
We can't keep toxicity.
It doesn't come off my curriculum because it's bullshit.
Because it's a TikTok thing that's like, you know, I was never meant to hear your opinion.
You're lucky I have this job, woman, because it's just, you're a crazy lady.
I was never meant to hear your opinion.
No, cortisol face or whatever.
But please listen to me.
It is not bullshit.
It's ectopic fat.
But can we just explain because you keep sidestepping and then we can't do that?
I'm not sidestepping.
This is the claim.
Okay.
Okay.
The claim is that obesity is unhealthy.
Lipotoxicity is not bullshit.
It is the definition of ectopic fat.
It's funny it never came up in six years of a professional accredited uncomfortable.
What's fatty liver disease?
I know what fatty liver.
I was a clinical diet.
That's lipotoxicity.
Okay.
Okay.
When fat is in the liver, when fat actually trying to learn is in the heart, when fat gets deposited in the brain.
Yeah.
That is lipotoxicity.
And it happens when the body has no place to put the excess energy anymore.
It is irrefutable that that is bad for your health.
Can we just go back to the correlation?
See, it's like I would have asked a few questions because I'm like, oh, I weigh 197 pounds.
I average every month 190 to 200.
I've never gone past 200.
The reason is because I cut sugar out of my diet.
Well, I see it.
5'11?
That seems a little high unless you're built.
Sorry.
Oh my God.
What causation?
So you're okay.
Lipotoxicity refers to cell damage caused by excess fatty acids accumulating in organs that are not designed to store fat, such as the liver, pancreas, heart, and muscles when fat spills from the apoptose tissue into these organs.
It can promote inflammation, insulin resistance, and organ dysfunction.
Okay.
Saying there's causal studies, right?
Yes.
MRT got these.
Acronym is great.
Okay.
So I think is the reason why we cannot show that the fat in and of itself leads to the negative health outcomes is because we cannot keep a human in a lab and control every factor, but have the only thing that's different.
Mendelian randomized currently.
But can you just listen?
So a person inherently eliminates any conflating.
I know you need to have like a certain level of intelligence to talk to her about this topic.
Or humility, one or the other.
You know, intelligent people don't mind talking to dumb people if there's a sense of humility.
Oh, Jillian, I didn't know what that was.
Tell me.
Oh, fatty liver disease.
I think I used to have that actually.
I think I had that when I was heavy.
I got to, that sounds like something.
Maybe I still do.
I should get to test it again.
Factors, because they're based on genetic predispositions coupled with a person in a larger body has experienced things that we can't undo from the fat.
So for example, they might have negative health outcomes because every time they go to a doctor, instead of being given an evidence-based treatment, like I have unearned thing privilege, I go to a doctor, I say, you know, my stomach hurts.
I get a full workup.
I'm always saying the earth is flat.
Are you trying to tell me that having fat in your liver?
I just want to talk about fat in your heart, having fat deposited in your brain is healthy.
No, I just want to talk about.
Oh my God.
I don't think they need to pay me like 10 grand to talk to these people.
10 grand.
Well, you're not trying to say that it's healthy.
No, I'm not trying to tell you that is what I said.
I was never talking about the health of it.
Okay.
I'm trying to say everything you're saying is hinging on this idea, and it's a problem that we disagree on it.
That it's the weight in and of itself that leads to the negative health outcomes.
You're saying this MRT totally is that is an endocrine organ.
I know, but can you destroy your hormone balance?
It creates insulin sensitivity.
What about when your body has too much fat?
It releases insane amounts of different.
I just wonder: have you heard of social determinants of health?
Tell me about it.
Okay.
Social determinants of health: a group of factors that impact someone's health outcomes.
Okay.
That are things like your healthcare access and quality, neighborhood and built environment, things like your stress levels, socioeconomic status.
And here's the thing: a person who's fat or lives in a larger body, we can't take away that that person has probably experienced higher stress levels their whole life from experiencing marginalization every corner.
Look, it is tough not being hot.
It's tough being ugly.
Okay.
It is tough.
And I'm sure it stresses you out, but nobody's really paying.
Like, if anything, when you become fat, you're like invisible.
Like, we just don't see you.
We don't discriminate against you, but you're now like the equivalent, especially as a woman, of an 80-year-old woman.
Like, we just, you're invisible.
We don't see you.
She'll be like the biggest loser to the doctor's office.
Okay.
You know, who does see you?
Black men.
They see you.
They see you loud and clear.
Yeah.
Can't take away that they haven't been given evidence-based health options because when they go to a doctor, they're told to go lose weight.
Fat gets deposited in the middle of the day.
How does I'm confused?
Are you suggesting these are the reasons people become overweight?
No, I'm suggesting that a person could be in a larger body and be perfectly healthy on a bot on a basis on their lab, their cholesterol.
7% of people who are classified as overweight or obese, call it whatever you guys feel comfortable with, only 7% are classified as healthy.
Say that was true.
Say we knew for certain grab the data for you right now.
Come on.
Say we knew for certain that it was unhealthy, that what you're saying is true.
Even if there's the classic, but even then, even then, we'd be in this place where, okay, so what do we do?
Are we going to send someone down?
Eat less, exercise more on a path of trying to lose weight and then gaining and trying and gaining.
And we know that weight cycling in and of itself is bad for the heart, bad for insulin, bad for the brain, bad for all the things.
We work with that individual.
That's what I do in my private practice.
That's wonderful.
Yeah.
And I don't, I don't encourage weight.
God help us.
These are the nutritionists.
Oh my god. Oh my god.
These are the nutritionists of America.
Us because it's unethical.
I disagree with you.
And what's ethical?
You were asking before not to be transparent with people.
How many people are dangers?
Yeah.
Transparency is the dangers of weight cycling.
You can go down that path.
That's a separate issue.
You're presuming they're weight cycling.
If you're doing your job, they shouldn't have to weight cycle, right?
No, it's not about me.
It's about the body.
The body is so smart.
We are, we are, but we're animals.
Our bodies, when we lose weight, our body goes, oh shit, she just starved me.
I'm going to do everything I can to try to get back to that place.
I think it's going to drive up thoughts about food.
I think it's slow down metabolism to conserve the energy you are getting.
Suggesting that because it's hard and it's multifactorial, we should negate the dangers and not try to get healthier.
I'm not sure that it's more dangerous to weight cycle than it is to stay in a fat body.
It's still not the claim.
What is weight cycle?
Like gain and lose and gain and lose?
I mean, probably that's a lot on your body.
It'd be the most healthy to just lose it, you know.
He says, I'm a five and looks, but I have a six pack.
Okay, well, maybe your composition sounded a little high to me, but you know, if you have a six pack, you probably know what you're doing.
I don't have a six pack.
So, well, see that?
See that?
That's humility.
That's deference.
Well, I don't have a six pack, so I'll defer to you, you know.
And if you want to show me that, I'd like, sure, show me the data.
I'm not going to argue with that.
It's not healthy to do that either.
That's still not the claim.
This isn't the hierarchy of what is unhealthy.
We're out of time.
We have to pause there.
Yeah.
Thank you for that exchange.
Who put these here?
Can someone remove these off the set, please?
Come on.
Thank you.
Thank you.
That could have gone really bad.
Workplace injuries are inevitable.
And luckily for me, I know just who to call when accidents like that happen.
Once on my way to work, a motorcyclist is that the large food companies are one of the primary beneficiaries of the body positivity movement.
All right.
If you want to be the next debater, get to the chair in three, two, one.
Hi.
Hi.
How are you?
I'm Siobhan.
Nice to meet you, Siobhan.
So, what are you classifying as large food companies?
Okay, um, PepsiCo, Coca-Cola, uh, general mills.
Okay, now, if they were beneficiaries and benefactoring, and oh my God, again, oh my God, think I'm gonna sneeze.
No, okay, like, why do I?
I can't believe I have to listen to this woman's opinion.
Like, it's crazy that she even gets a microphone.
It's almost doing a disservice to the woman because nowhere, like, you are so fat.
Nowhere in my lifetime should you have a microphone.
Nowhere.
Like, do you understand when you are fat, you signal to the world, I am so stupid that I can't put a donut down.
That's what you're signaling.
I am so lazy that I cannot put a donut down.
I've been there, right?
I've been there.
You know, I was fat and lazy.
So, um, but you got to learn making all this money off of the body positivity movement.
Why is it that they spend billions on calorie counting apps on a lot of things that we see in society as forcing the losing weight or talking about losing weight?
Because that to me doesn't make sense and doesn't correlate.
Signaling Stupidity And Laziness00:15:24
But also, people that are benefiting from this are the people in the body.
Why was I fat and lazy?
I'll tell you my problem.
It was well, it wasn't anything triggered.
It was just I didn't know how to cook.
I didn't, I wasn't that good at cleaning either.
So it was, it felt like a lot of work to like cook.
Um, and I didn't know how to do it.
So that was one problem.
Another problem was I really enjoyed, I've always enjoyed, and this is something I still struggle with.
I love liquid calories.
I love it.
I love smoothies.
I love, you know, I love coffee, sugar.
I hate water.
I just, I wish I could.
And over time, you just like, it's just measuring what you're eating over time.
And you figure out what the problems were.
Mine was caramel lattes, you know?
So positivity movement themselves.
A little bit about myself.
Wait, can I clarify?
Oh, please, please.
I'm talking predominantly about finance.
Okay, sorry.
Perfect.
Thank you.
Even that, I still will say.
So I come from.
Hey, I can cook now, but before, no, I couldn't before.
That's true.
The wedding industry.
So I created the first publication in the world for plus size brides.
I've now gotten 13 wedding publications around.
Wow.
Plus-size women are getting married now.
Oh, my God.
This isn't.
Fellas, black men, what are you doing?
What are you doing?
There is enough plus-size brides that they can have publications specifically for plus-size brides.
What are you guys doing?
Doug MK, you got to tell black men.
They got to do better than this.
And the occasional white man.
I don't think I understand insulin.
I understand calories.
Maybe I need to.
The world.
And my biggest thing is, is the wedding industry is very centric on this is what the wedding industry looks like.
I have created a platform where body and not just larger bodied body positivity, but body positivity for all sizes.
And I'm going to come specifically from the wedding industry, which is very different, I know, but it still is a very weight-centric.
Okay.
So your argument is the wedding industry is the primary.
No, I'm not saying that.
I'm saying that's where my knowledge comes from.
But the body positivity movement is really for us.
We are the main.
And I'm saying we because I'm a large body person.
I totally understand.
That's where it's really coming from.
Oh, please.
So there have been two really big exposes, one by The Washington Post and one by The Examiner.
So they're coming at this from numerous angles.
So the first one is they've gone after.
Jillian is an expert in health and fitness and all these people to think she doesn't know what she's talking about.
And all that weight debating, Jillian, not an ounce of a logical body positivity argument.
Yeah, I mean, I would ask her a million questions.
She knows more than I do, you know?
A lot of the intuitive eating dietitians.
Okay.
So let me just, can I give you some statistics?
Please, please, please.
Okay.
So Washington Post analyzed more than 6,000 social media posts by 68 registered dietitians with a combined reach of over 9 million followers.
40% of them were using the anti-diet language, right?
Like food freedom, no food rules, ditch the diet, healthy nature size, so on and so forth.
Very often not disclosing the fact that they were paid by the big food companies.
Okay.
Okay.
So they're basically going after the intuitive eating dietitians.
I can give you Abby Sharp.
That's okay.
But I want you to listen.
Okay.
Because they are doing that.
Yes.
But the aspect that the body positive movement is really for us, that is not even anywhere we need to equate into it.
It really is when they're using your movement.
But that, but do you, and I'm going to say this clearly and for right now, it's just so crazy because in these debates, you just see how confidently, like the expert is humble and the idiot is confident.
Isn't that incredible?
The expert, humble, idiot, competent or idiot, confident.
It's just incredible.
That's incredible.
I don't care who uses my fucking movement.
I want the movement to be there.
And that right there, they can take it.
It's marketing and sales 101.
Course, they're going to use the fucking movement.
But then, because she even know what marketing and sales 101 is, you guys say you don't get to co-opt our movement.
That's not for me to do.
I don't care about that.
The thing is, is we don't care, but it's not about we should.
We are doing what we're doing because this is our family, this is our world.
It doesn't matter about what do you think?
But the thing is, we don't care.
We are the movement, but there are a lot of people that are being hurt by this.
And these guys essentially are engineering food to be addictive, to quote.
And you know what?
And I will say this: I will say this.
Yeah, I will give you the claps on that.
I will say, yes, that is true.
But what I do want to say is that that it happens all the time.
A movement starts and someone comes in and takes it.
And someone comes in and comes in it.
And someone comes in and don't deny it.
You just don't care.
No, I'm saying it's fine for them to do that.
But the bigger issue that I want you to realize is that the body positivity movement is ultimately for us.
If someone wants to come and get on our coattail, that's perfectly fine.
But for us, it doesn't need to go away.
It doesn't need to go anywhere.
It does go away.
But I'm suggesting.
Now, see, there's the suggestion.
Okay.
I like it.
I like it.
Okay.
I'm the older I get.
I just see how dumb people are.
Like, it's just, and it's not even that I think I'm that smart, but God, I've just had arguments and I can't even believe I've argued with people suggesting that it could evolve, that you guys could call out when you're co-opted, that you could centralize messaging so that it's not all over the place.
No, that's right.
I am not opposed to.
I'm not opposed to that.
I'm not saying it.
That's not a claim.
No, but the thing is, is I want you to know who the true beneficiaries are.
You're saying that they are the main beneficiaries.
I'm not speaking financially.
Yeah, and I apologize.
And that's okay.
But you're saying the claim says that the large food companies are the main beneficiaries of the body positive movement.
That is not correct.
I understand.
Because we are the main people.
We are the main beneficiaries of the body positive movement.
If someone wants to come and get on our coattail, go ahead.
Disagree with you on that.
I think that's a mistake.
And that's okay.
I think that you guys could tell them you could expose what they're doing.
Like, can I read you something else?
Please.
Okay.
I'm here to hear.
You are not here to hear.
I've been listening to you.
I mean, bro.
Diabolical.
It's a one-sided dialogue.
This is okay.
I have a friend that's on the inside.
He sent me this.
He goes, I just want to show you the ways in which this is being inside of, I can't say that.
You got it.
Exactly.
Okay.
So, so here's the intentional message overlap, right?
So healthy at every size.
Quote, you can be healthy in any size.
Corporate benefit removes health concern barrier to sales.
Stay with me, okay?
Dieting doesn't work, protects snack foods from being cut.
Healthy in any size.
Weight and health are unrelated.
Corporate benefit deflects from products causing obesity.
Healthy at any size.
Weight stigma causes disease, not weight.
Wait, wait, wait.
Okay.
I'm going to get you.
Okay.
I'm just showing you.
This is this is what I'm going to bring what I would love.
And I'm saying love because I want it, but I love it more.
If there is such a resistance to the body positive movement, and I'm speaking specifically kind of from your standpoint.
Yes.
If there's such a resistance to the body positive movement, why are you saying, why are you letting them take money from you?
Wait, why is there resistance?
Until the systems are acknowledging or saying that it's actual, that it needs to be.
I think that there are absolutely, I think that intuitive eating is a goal, not a treatment plan.
I think that having access to health, which is what Health Any Size at Every Size was initially intended to do, I think all those things are important.
I think, unfortunately, the fact that the movement is decentralized and it's prone to being co-opted, it can do harm in the ways that I have shown you.
And that's what I said.
that we can agree to we actually agree alright Pause there.
That's good.
We got to pause there.
You've been voted out by the majority.
Well, I really appreciate this.
Thank you.
Thank you, girl.
Oh, my God.
I just losers.
So I really want to focus on what you've just been saying about the co-opting of the movement.
Because what you seem to be critiquing is the people who've co-opted the movement, not the people who actually built the movement.
Well, not the people who actually are the movement.
So, so the idea that I don't want to name names, but there are many, okay, influencers who have said these things.
So who's the movement?
Influencers and activists are not necessarily the same thing.
Oh, this is, it's always the gaslighting.
Oh, this isn't real body positivity.
This is real body positivity.
I mean, women are just experts.
These people are demons.
We're allegedly invited here as activists and advocates.
Not always the same thing, right?
Some influencers.
I don't disagree, but it's become, as I mentioned, a patchwork quilt of like, I'm an activist, I'm an influencer, I'm a dietitian.
It's whereas like when you look at something like AA.
Well, let me guide you to something very clear about the Health at Every Size movement.
Health at Every Size is actually a registered trademark of the Association for Size, Diversity, and Health.
I know.
So when people are misusing that, we are a movement that doesn't have the same resources as the health and wellness industry or the health and wellness grifters or the major food industry, right?
We don't have the same resources to fight every time somebody misuses our terminology, our philosophies, our what do you mean?
You guys obviously have the time because you're not spending it at the gym.
I go to the gym every day.
So that's a lot of time, you know?
Practices, our values, but there are some of us out there who are doing that, right?
I've never seen that.
Caveats.
I never, ever see the freaking Jillian.
You gotta, they're just gonna over talk you.
This is like a therapy.
This is like a cope session.
And caveats.
So maybe today you can.
Maybe you can help amplify some of the caveats.
I am doing that right now.
Okay.
So let's go to the claim.
I'm trying.
The claim that body positivity is primarily benefiting big food companies.
I mean, financially.
I got it.
Because individual benefit, I can't, I can't.
It's a quantifiable.
I'm talking about the way these bastards are manipulating this message to do things that I think are very unethical.
So if body positivity is feeding their profits, will we see their profits reduce as this pendulum swing away from body positivity continues to go back to the, you know, like I get asked all the time as the director of NAFA, is body positivity over?
Is body positivity over because of Zempic?
Is body positivity over because of Maha?
You know, is body positivity over?
Part of my argument is it depends on what you're in body positivity for.
If you're in it for systemic change, it ain't over because the system ain't changed, right?
But I do concede the point that like we are moving away from some of what we saw as body positivity for the last 10, 15 years.
What do you mean by that?
We need to move away from that.
It's less popular.
It's less trendy.
We're moving more.
Getting rich off of body positivity is wrong because corporations getting rich off of early death.
Yeah, but they're going to die anyway.
They would eat themselves into the grave no matter what, with or without body positivity.
Turn towards a fin-centric ideal again, or you know, leaving behind.
We've labeled body positivity DEI and we're turning away from that, whatever.
As we move away from that, are we going to see the profits of these food industries drop?
Well, you are.
Why would you need to make food genetically addictive if body positives are?
It's like me, Jillian.
You try to be polite, and it always you always end up conceding to the impolite people because you don't like interrupting.
So you just always get talked over and just sell that food.
If you could just tell people when you feel good in your body, you're going to eat all the nabisco snacks that you want to.
Then why do we have to make them?
They don't even want you to stop eating one chip.
This is how incremental they are about this.
They literally engineer.
Just hear me out.
They don't even want you to have to stop and take a drink of water when you're eating their chips.
So they engineer how much fat is in your mouth in each bite.
There are a team of multidisciplinary scientists that literally work around the clock 24-7, day after day, year after year.
Their body positivity.
No, no, So, but so this is the thing.
No, what you're describing is a misfit of science.
Yeah.
What you're describing is what you're describing is business.
What you're describing is capitalism.
What you're describing is greed.
Yes.
Body positivity is not the reason for that.
No, I'm suggesting that I think you guys should get pretty freaking vocal and pissed because these guys.
No, I don't think so.
Jillian, they're going to, I mean, they're going to eat.
There's enough information where you can get food that's good for you.
They just want to keep getting fat.
It's their fault, Jill.
You're being way too kind.
Are actively manipulating your message so much?
I haven't even gotten to half the shit that they do.
So, for example, they have effectively lobbied to remove nutrition guidelines and warning labels on food packaging because of harmful shame.
It's like trans fats are bad for your health.
Okay, it's a fact.
They have advocated for that.
The body positivity movement, the fat activism, the fat messaging, right?
Like you said, co-opting.
Yes.
Right.
So they should stop co-opting our shit.
Co-opting The Movement00:09:45
But they're not going to.
Yes.
That's what I'm saying.
So how do you, I don't get pissed about it.
Like, I get the things you're pissed at.
We are pissed about a lot of things.
I get it.
Can you add this to the list?
Add this.
This job.
We are pissed about a lot of things, but you're not pissed about your waistline.
She's being too nice.
It's like, I can't even imagine operating in one of these circles.
I think I would kill myself.
Is this how men feel when they have to censor themselves 24-7?
Dang, they're the primary.
You want to indict someone?
It is on the list for some people whose focus is body positivity, right?
We have different foci.
I, you know, I do civil rights stuff.
Some people do fashion stuff, wedding industry, health, you know, health and wellness eating disorders.
We have there are folks who are thinking about the food industry.
There are folks who are nutritionists who are, you know, like I can't without seeing the list of like the people that I, I remember the Washington Post article.
Some of those people are not two people that I would associate with us.
I understand, but they're literally many of them are certified in intuitive eating.
Okay.
But they're Abby Sharp.
Okay.
But that's not health in every size.
Intuitive eating is not a healthy principle.
Intuitive eating is the biggest bullshit I've ever heard in my life.
Yeah, we're going to intuitively eat too much food.
My problem with the movement is that it's like, oh, but it's not that part.
But it is that part.
You're saying our problem is that we conflate, that all the things get conflicted.
I'm not saying it's your part.
I'm saying my issue is that because it's become a patchwork quilt, an amalgamation of movements and voice.
Oh, it's an activist.
It's a political, it's an influencer.
It's a celebrity.
There's no accountability for any of this.
There's no through line and it allows exploitation.
Why aren't we that they can be hurtful?
Why isn't the entire public holding food companies accountable for food company evils?
I think why is it the, why is it?
You don't think so?
I mean, they're reevaluating the generally recognized safe rule.
They just changed the food pyramid, which guides.
Do you want to talk about that one?
It guides hundreds of billions of dollars in subsidies.
And now they're mandating.
I'm saying that focused on the part of it.
Okay.
I think there are a lot of people that are focused on it.
You do understand how and why they have significantly more resources than actual body positive activists, right?
Saying that they don't have more resources.
I'm saying, can you see this issue?
What do we do about it?
Well, do you think it's a problem?
I think it's a problem.
I think there are a lot of problems.
Oh my gosh.
Do you see the way she's talking?
It's like they're like adults, but with like still kids.
This is why I'm not for every woman having kids.
A woman that fat cannot take care of kids.
She can't take care of herself.
She's just going to pass on her obesity to children.
I think one of the problems is the assumption that everything that has to do with food and its lack of health correlates with fatness.
Because we are saying body positivity.
Well, we are saying body positivity and body positivity includes all kinds of ways of being in a body, right?
Not just body size.
It includes all of the things about disability and skin color and hair texture and all of the things, right?
Body positivity.
But we really have been coding that in this conversation to talk about body size, right?
And you can understand.
Okay, I actually didn't think body positivity, to be dead honest with you, I've never interpreted body positivity to be about skin color or gender ideology.
But some of the things that some of the people who started body positivity and practice it today and talk about the values that I don't think anybody sees it that way.
That is not a part of the movement.
I think the general presumption.
The general presumption is that it must focus on weight and weight loss because that's a bigger narrative in the culture.
That is who we are seeing advocate.
We're not seeing a person who's black being like, I'm body positive because I'm black.
They're generally in a different civil rights movement.
So I think that discounts the black leadership in this movement, right?
I'm not saying that.
I very rarely see people of color simply based on prejudice regarding their skin color using body positivity to make their point.
I see them in like if this is a movement, I see people who have multiple.
Okay.
Oh my God.
I can't do this anymore.
Oh, I can't do this anymore.
Okay.
We're going to do five more.
I'm going to finish this lady's debate.
I think identities that include their skin color, their gender presentation, their disability.
They are talking about body positivity related to their body size and those other issues.
We had somebody else.
I've yet to say that.
I just, I've never seen it in all the years.
Like I've seen activists.
I mean, has anybody else seen that?
Hang on.
What you started, what you started, right?
Or I'm sorry, I'm sorry.
It's just incredible how confidently idiots lecture you.
That's how we feel.
The longest time I've let a woman lecture me was four hours.
Then I was able to speak.
And that you work for.
Yes.
Had to do with a gentleman that started this organization because his wife labeled it however you would.
I don't know what word you guys feel comfortable with.
We've been using fat for 57 years.
Fat's okay.
Okay.
Yes.
Let's say, okay, you are.
But listen, Jillian, you've positioned yourself.
You've positioned yourself as really, really knowing this movement and really knowing where we're showing up.
And it is really, really common for activists and advocates to talk about using fat as overweight in the world.
We just say fat.
Right?
Okay, fine.
Because over 25% body fat.
I'll go with that.
It was started by a gentleman whose wife was fat.
Yes.
Who was discriminated against?
Oh my God.
A sip started this.
Oh, my God.
Yes.
That's where your part began.
Intuitive eating.
That's not how I came into it through body positivity.
Do you understand?
But because you're holding a lot.
If you really want to get started.
That's how my organization started.
The movement started.
Black women and femmes in the civil rights movement, with women, with people at Stonewall who were fat people, with fat performance.
That's how the movement was.
What's the through line, though?
What's the through line?
What do you mean?
Okay, so people at Stonewall, is it because they were gay or because they were gay and as you guys say, fat?
Right.
Is it because it was because they were gay, but there were fat people there, and those fat people talked about their fat bodies.
Gay people are part of the body positivity movement.
A huge part of it.
On the merits of just being gay, guys.
That's what I'm saying.
Gay and defending people's body sovereignty, people's body autonomy, people's right to live freely in their body.
What is different?
The core started with regard to being fat.
Am I right?
That is what he's saying.
Oh, my God.
See, this is why you can't argue with stupid people.
I mean, she can't even get them to stick to the topic.
They're too dumb to be talking to her.
Started your organization.
My organization.
You can't be healthy at every size.
The beginning is about access for people.
Right.
And health at every size principles talk about intersectionality and multiply marginalized people.
All right.
I mean, that's enough.
My god, oh my god That was so.
All right.
Let's go to Twitter and see some Twitter bullshit before I close out the show.
I can't.
I can't listen to another one.
I can't.
I'm sorry if you hate me.
I can't do it.
All right.
All right.
Let's go to Twitter.
I did some retweets specifically for the show.
Let's start with Caleb Hammer.
Caleb Hammer is a YouTuber who gives people financial advice.
And he's going viral because he's telling people to spend less money and he's kind of stating the obvious.
Not entitled to go out to eat.
That might piss some people off, right?
It's like you're not entitled to that.
I would love you to.
I hope you can fit in the budget.
Let's work together.
Let's get you more money.
Let's get your budget under control.
But you're not entitled to go enjoy Nice Sushi or McDonald's.
You don't need to get the fancy, fancy, nice, perfect Whole Foods.
You can get the off-brand for a little bit.
And I off-branded in college on the cheap.
It's not great.
And it's not the best for health either, but it worked.
Not entitled.
Let's keep going.
The biggest red flags in romantic relationships, financial.
When each other don't know each other's financial situation, because there's no one who comes on this show that isn't at least in the position where they should have that talk, where they have a completely different worldview on goals, spending, desires, where they want to be as a couple.
It's like, if you're not even aligned on that, what are we doing?
Get aligned or get the out.
And then the next one would be just like not knowing where the other one's spending is going and immediately throwing accusations to the other person's wife.
Like, you're spending on this, or you're spending on this.
It's like, why are we looking at it like this?
Are we just trying to come together and get better together and hold each other accountable instead of just trying to throw each damn?
Financial Red Flags In Love00:02:03
We reacted to that yesterday.
Clavicular, I guess, had to block his mom, saving Clavicular.
Sees that women are crazy.
Yeah, I blocked my mom because she kept saying how fucked up of a person I was and feel like that.
And I wasn't even doing anything.
I wasn't even.
I was literally just drinking.
She's like, you're a loser.
So I didn't even block.
I literally just muted the fucking text on WhatsApp.
Well, see what else we got.
Liam Nelson is in a new relationship.
Let's see this.
Breaking news.
73-year-old Liam Neeson is getting married again.
17 years after his ex-wife, Natasha Richardson, passed away.
He seems to find his love again.
This time, the bird may be the ex he never forgot.
Do you remember his four wild and messy relationships?
Let's start with Helen Mirin.
They met in 1980 on Excalibur.
Neeson was smitten, lived together five years, but it didn't work out.
They stayed cool after the split.
Mirren even said she still deeply loves him.
Next, Julia Roberts.
In 1988, 19-year-old Roberts dated Neeson.
It lasted about two years.
The career gap pushed them apart.
They split in 1990.
Then, Brooke Shields.
Three months into dating, Neeson proposed.
She said no.
Shields felt he'd fall for his next co-star, and she was right.
The relationship fizzled.
Finally, Natasha Richardson.
They met in 1993 doing Anna Christie.
Richardson was married, but the chemistry was intense.
She left her husband and they married in 1994.
Tragedy struck in 2009.
Richardson fell while skiing and hit her head at 45.
Neeson still visits her grave and talks to her.
So, which woman do you think is his true love?
Intense Chemistry With Richardson00:04:25
Breaking.
Oh, I thought they were gonna.
What the heck?
Okay, whatever.
Um, oh, there's a new Montoya.
I don't know if you remember Temptation Island, but basically, um, they put their significant other on an island with hot people and see if they fall into temptation, and then it goes as badly as you think.
Oh, He's gotta watch his girl get cracked Yo,
no has ido Si, que porque no, que sea lo he dicho, que sea lo dije Lo dije yo Siéntate, Juanpi, por favor Esta será la verdad fatal Ahí está Uy, uy, uy, tú, tú, tú, pasan cosas ahí ¡Claudia! ¡Claudia!
¡Suéltame! ¡Suéltame!
¡Hájate, Claudia!
¡Primera hoguera! ¡Primera hoguera!
¡Suéltame! ¡Suéltame, dale!
¡La más digna de todas!
¡Qué cojones! ¡Qué cojones!
Yeah, he's a giga chad.
You got cooked.
I don't know why you would put her on an island with giga chads.
Do you know what I mean?
Like, why would you put your bitch on an island with giga chads?
That's gonna add exactly how you think it would end.
That's like sending your bitch back in the day.
If you're a peasant, you're like, Yeah, I'll send her to the king.
like yeah i mean then she gets cracked by the king you know yeah you caught your ex cheating You know, I would talk about cheating stories, but here's the problem: when you tell stories of you getting cheated on as a woman, it actually makes you look worse because you picked him.
So, as far as I'm concerned, all my exes were saints.
They were all saints, they were all perfect angels.
I don't know La
última vez que me ves, eh, no, te he hecho nada, eh.
Que sepas que me he reprimido toda, toda la edición.
Claudia, piensa las cosas dos veces.
Pensa...
Pensa con la cabeza.
Yeah, she's going to get cracked that night.
Yeah, because the more you argue and beg, now it's like now he's just confirmed the decision, you know.
Now it's like you've confirmed that she made the right choice, anyways, guys.
Um, that's all I got today.
I'm a little sick, so I'm kind of gonna end early.
Understanding Spanish Comments00:00:22
Um, but do I understand Spanish?
No, I might take it someday.
That's just so much work.
Oh my god.
Um, anyways, guys, and let me know what you think in the comments if you could like the video and subscribe to the channel.