Andrew Wilson and Coach Greg Adams clash over marriage’s viability for Western men, with CGA citing no-fault divorce laws (pushed by Reagan in the 1970s) and women weaponizing courts, while Andrew defends religious marriages—like Catholic or Orthodox traditions—claiming their 2,000-year history and lower divorce rates (e.g., 16% for Catholics vs. 49% for secular couples). CGA dismisses this as impractical, arguing modern women’s behavior is unchangeable and prenups are unreliable, while Andrew counters with Amish success and anecdotal evidence of religious enforcement. The debate reveals a stark divide: CGA warns marriage risks financial ruin, mental health decline, and even suicide, calling it a "burning building" without structural fixes, while Andrew insists enforceable alternatives exist despite skepticism from both sides. [Automatically generated summary]
All right, if the millennials might get it in here, birthday.
It's my birthday.
Woo!
Okay.
Anyways, today is my birthday.
So today we're doing a birthday stream.
And I really felt like this debate that I'm about to react to it's kind of the equivalent of like a game day fight for me.
Like, you ever have two of your favorite athletes go up to play against each other?
That is what this debate is for me.
Okay.
So for those of you that don't know, Andrew Wilson and Coach Greg Adams debated.
Now, I've had both of these guys on my show.
I'm a big fan of both of them.
Andrew Wilson is a 304 destroyer.
He goes on whatever podcast and he just cooks these 304s daily.
Now, CGA has a channel.
I think he's got like half a million subscribers.
I don't know.
He's got some subscribers.
And he has been talking about men's rights and men's issues and red pill concepts for years.
I would say he's one of the most original content creators in the space.
He's a lot of original concepts.
I've learned a lot from him.
I'm guessing I'm going to lean more towards CGA on this debate, but we'll see who, you know, who makes more valid points.
And it's on Digital Social Hour, that podcast.
So let's, here we go.
Shoot, like what was the coach?
The community of America.
Most of the better communities that have safety, good children, good schools are typically centered around marriage.
However, marriage has not progressed to the point where men could be.
Let me go back a little bit.
Tequila is awesome.
Yeah.
Let me go check for that and soda.
Yeah.
You want anything, Greg?
No, no, no, tequila for me.
You know, when women debate, it's always like, I feel, I feel, I feel.
When men debate, they have notes.
They're ready to go.
You think it's a setup?
Who do you think's getting set up?
I don't think so.
think these are both equally matched like people in terms of like their knowledge um thank you thank you paige
Come on.
I love you, Jake.
What's the joke?
Calm down.
All right, I got my notes up.
You got it?
You're waiting for your drink, though.
Sorry, that's so cute.
He's like dressed in a suit and tie.
Oh, wow.
Okay.
Wait for that.
Sure, he can bring it in.
How old am I turning?
22.
Forever.
22.
Let me silence this thing.
Did your guy do the update too?
What's that?
You said your guy was on my stupid phone.
Oh, it was your phone.
Oh.
Doing a firm, it's in airplane mode, so there won't be any has not progressed to the point where men can be saved.
How would I keep missing some delays?
We got Andrew here first coach Greg Adams, aka the free agent lifestyle.
We're going to talk about today, is marriage worth it for men in the West?
So let's get into some opening statements.
Who wants to start off?
Yeah, man, marriage is a great institution.
It was an institution that built the community of America.
Most of the better communities that have safety, good children, good schools are typically centered around marriage.
However, marriage has not progressed to the point where men could be safe legally.
And a lot of men have experienced tremendous damage, collateral damage, as a result.
And it has led to broken families, a lot of broken hearts, simply because the laws are not positioned to benefit both people in a divorce.
Therefore, you have no fault divorce.
You have opportunities for women to use the courts against men.
And as a result, men have seen one, two, and three generations of men getting harmed, their grandfathers, their fathers, their uncles, their brothers getting harmed by this.
So Generation Z men are not positioning themselves for a positive marriage.
So at this particular point, if someone asked me, would I recommend marriage for them?
And they were in a certain position in life, they weren't established, I would say no.
There's no benefit for that person to get married today.
Got it.
Your response, Andrew?
Yeah, I didn't hear any anti-marriage arguments.
I heard anti-divorce arguments.
So I'm with you on divorce.
100%.
Stream over.
And it's a good thing that the topic isn't on divorce.
It's on marriage.
And it seems like you agree with my proposition then.
And the proposition is that marriage, quote, is a great institution.
And that right now your concern is that men can't be safe in marriage.
But that's not actually what you're saying.
You're not saying men can't be safe in marriage.
They can.
You're saying that they may not be safe in divorce.
So I have a counterproposition for you.
My counterproposition is, what if it's the case that you can use religious marriage institutions without the state?
And then we add the ecclesiastical structure of the marriage.
That's what always kept them together anyway, before the state was ever involved.
So what if instead we use the ecclesiastical church, the structure of the old churches?
That would be Catholicism and Orthodoxy, where you see the.
Okay, so I am going to have a different position than Andrew on this.
I grew up, I just have to go off of my experience.
Okay.
And I grew up in a pretty Catholic area.
I have cousins that were really, really Catholic.
And I do not see that as a deterrent to terrible marriages and divorce.
I mean, even if I look at like my grandmother and her friends, I'm not trying to talk trash on them, but I don't really it.
Like I remember when I was a kid and spending time with my grandma and her friends.
And I remember thinking that they sounded like 18 year olds.
And I'm just not sure.
I think they had more children, but I'm really not even under the impression that that generation was very different.
I think they just had more kids because they kind of had to.
I mean, my grandma, like they lived on a farm.
So the lowest divorce rates because the community puts pressure on the women to act right.
That's what they do.
Right now, the state applies no pressure on women to act right, right?
You can just go and file whatever you want, get a divorce and go be banging the neighbor by the next night.
We totally agree on that.
But to say that we should abandon marriage is silly.
It seems like you're completely pro-marriage.
You're just anti-divorce.
So, why wouldn't you just throw your weight behind institutions where the divorce rate is the least and you have an ecclesiastical structure which can be appealed to to assist with that?
That's what makes no sense to me.
My response to that is: if we're fifths, we'd be all drunk.
All right.
So, that's a scenario that just isn't present.
Can you explain the analogy for me?
Yeah.
Again, I'm trying to be respectful because I really respect both of them.
I'm trying to I'm trying to be respectful when I go about this again what they're going to do and a lot of people try to do is they want to dictate your reality for you so So, they'll say you could go to this church, you go to these studies, you go to this, this, and this, and therefore you're going to mitigate the risk on these things.
And again, I really do think that the best way to come to conclusions is what you see with your eyes, you know, because you're going to be easily manipulated if anybody can put a study or data in front of you and they say that's reality, not a clip on TV.
That's your reality, not what you see with your eyes.
And again, we could talk about the flaws and the data I think Andrew's going to use.
But regardless of that, you know, when you say there's like religious women and religious institutions, I kind of have the privilege of growing up in a pretty Catholic area, and I can tell you it's no different.
I, you know, I was one of 10 kids.
I'm from a family that I would say is more on paper traditional than a lot of places.
You know, my parents were together 30 years, but when I look with the people I grew up around, I mean, most of the women were nagging, like bitching wives.
So, yeah, let me.
And I'll go into, I think I'll react to one of my old videos because, do you know what?
I'm just not here.
I'll keep going.
Well, if we use if, it's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when.
If we say, if we have a situation where this is present, then this would work.
Well, that makes sense.
If we had that, we didn't work right now.
Well, it doesn't necessarily work because, and I'm going to tell you why, because a woman can go to a divorce attorney and they can simply just say, Hey, listen, it was an off-the-cuff, off-the-state divorce, but you got married within a certain state or she filed in a certain state.
So, therefore, the divorce goes on.
Absolutely.
Yes, listen.
I've been to with the divorce attorneys, and what they'll tell you is, Hey, listen, you can get married in the ritual, you can get married in the orthodoxy, you can get married off record.
But if she files and that woman is hell-bent on saying, We got married, I don't care if it was a ceremony where we walked on coals with our feet bare, that's considered a marriage.
You also have common law, you have a lot of other ways for that woman to establish marriage.
How does your way eliminate common law?
I don't have any way to eliminate common law.
So, what I have is a way for men to avoid it.
No, the argument's not silly.
So, here's what you have: you have an if proposition, which doesn't exist for most men.
Most men aren't religious, most men aren't.
Yeah, most men aren't going to want to do like I would say most men, in my experience, have not had overly positive experiences with religious organizations.
Um, so I don't think most men are wanting to be overly religious.
Like, what percent of Gen Z even attends church?
Um, and I think the challenge is: see, men attend church, let's say weekly.
I understand where Andrew's coming from because I used to kind of, oh, that's actually higher than I thought.
46 of Gen Z men report attending church the past week.
Oh, well, good job, Gen Z. What about her context that is higher?
That's actually higher than I thought.
Here, here, here.
You know, Andrew's kind of talking about idealistic, like, so he's saying the world would be better.
It should be this way.
And CGA is talking about what is.
And this was kind of a problem when I first got into the red pill.
I came from a pretty religious background.
So I think I had a lot of those similar talking points, right?
And it's kind of goes back to when I used to say women shouldn't vote.
Well, it doesn't matter what women should or shouldn't do.
Women shouldn't be whores.
Well, we are.
We do vote.
So, like, if you have to make a decision today, you have to make a decision with the information that we do vote.
And I kind of go back to like the business example.
If you're a business owner and you say, when is this going to get done?
Like, when is this religious theocracy going to get done?
And the person you're talking to says, well, maybe someday in our lifetime.
And you're like, well, okay, well, I have to hire.
I have to fire today.
I have to, you know, make decisions today.
And what you get is the Trad Cons.
Not that I think Andrew's completely in that realm, but they kind of say, well, this is how it should be.
And I found in my experience, those are kind of useless conversations.
You could argue they maybe move the needle.
Like, I think women not voting is more mainstream since I did it.
You could argue maybe there's repercussions down the line, but that's still a different conversation than like predicting and what is, you know, looking for to be under a religious orthodoxy.
So it doesn't apply.
So you're taking a moral standard or a religious standard to apply to people who aren't under that veil.
So let's start with a couple of things you said, which are fundamentally untrue.
Most men are religious, in fact, including in this country.
Most of them, not some of them, but they're not religious.
Hold on, I understand, but you're let me just take that point.
Most aren't under your religion.
Okay.
So here's the thing.
Yeah, actually, that's a better question.
What percent of Gen Z men are Catholic and Orthodox?
And I have to say, I don't really see a difference in the behavior of Orthodox and Catholic men.
You know, I think they're just as simpy.
I really don't.
I know they try to sell you on this.
I can only go based on what I have seen.
Okay.
So, okay, let's go back to here.
But Catholicism and Orthodoxy is growing rapidly.
And if it's the case that the ecclesiastical structure is already there, which it is, right?
If you're going to cohabitate with a woman, the thing that you're offering right now is common law marriage anyway, if there's cohabitation at all.
You're not protecting anybody.
I don't think CGA, I think he says to stay away from women.
I think he knows that most men will enter some sort of long-term relationship, but I don't think he suggests it.
At least under my model, it gives an ecclesiastical structure that's designed to prevent divorce by applying community pressure.
That was the way it was always done.
Apply the application of community pressure within the confines of the woman's social circle.
Right now, do you agree with me, for instance, that many divorces happen because women like to yap?
So you get a freshly divorced woman and she's free.
You go, girl, girl, power.
And she starts talking to her little friends and she starts telling them how liberating it is and how great it is and this and that.
And this is why when women have divorced friends, their likelihood of divorce actually rapidly increases.
It's for this reason.
I agree with that.
I agree.
And divorces can take.
So, if it's the case that this social contagion is eliminated, because now we have an ecclesiastical structure, an ecclesiastical authority, which won't grant it, because you get ostracized from that social group through excommunication, for instance, or not being able to participate anymore with that community.
I don't see that as a deterrent because there's always going to be women that are still like there's always going to be the simps and the women that still deal with those women, like pretty much always.
I mean, you could argue that it could happen, but how long have they been Orthodox?
Because I don't, I think you have a different perspective when you've seen a religion over like a 10 to 20-year period.
Because a lot of the people that you didn't think would get divorced, they end up getting divorced.
Yeah, so marriage has no benefit to any man.
That's an application of a serious and significant social pressure, which can do the very thing you want: bring back that great institution, absent the state, and it avoids this whole problem of common law marriage.
Because if it's the case that you can be common law married anyway inside of a state, and they can get grounds for divorce on that anyway, then we actually need to have some social pressures to prevent them from doing that.
So it sounds like we agree marriage is awesome for men, divorce is terrible for them.
So it seems like we should be attacking the divorce structure here.
And it doesn't seem like you actually have anything to do that other than just avoid the thing that's great for you because this other bad side effect could happen.
I think it's maybe Andrew does, but I don't think he does one-on-one coaching.
So you kind of have to have a different perspective when because again, like if it's make your wife religious, it's like, um, I don't know.
Hold on, I'm going to listen more before I talk.
Women, right?
Thank you for the birthday wishes.
Sure.
So I don't know cigarettes.
So why don't we attack the bad side effect when we have the mechanism to do it?
It's not if we can do it now.
Okay.
So like smoking cigarettes is the same analogy.
You're saying, okay, here cigarettes in this situation.
We obviously know it has negative side effects.
So you would avoid it.
Now, here's the issue that I have with it.
It sounds great on paper, but we can't travel to the land of make-believe.
It sounds great.
The majority of people probably wouldn't do it.
And if you ask a guy, which this is an important part, they're not even prepared to even talk about that.
They don't even know what divorce laws are.
So you're asking.
Okay.
Andrew doesn't do coaching.
He does put a $15 paywall behind his debates.
Okay, blah, blah, blah.
We're not trying to roast him.
So, but the okay.
And the reason I mentioned this is you kind of get in a different mindset.
So I'll give you an example.
There was an e-girl.
She's going to, she watches this, so she's going to know who she was.
I saw her do, um, I saw her do a reaction that said you should be loyal to men during the talking stage.
And I think that sounds really good.
But I said, well, it depends how long have they been talking?
How often is he seeing you?
Because I've seen women that are single because they're loyal to men that are never going to date them.
So, you know, I'm like, if he's seeing you once a month, no, don't be loyal to him.
Go on more days.
I'm sorry.
I'm just being honest.
Like, yeah, you can't put all your eggs in that basket.
Maybe if he ups it later.
Okay, no, don't, no, no slander of Andrew or CGA.
This is, this is me.
We are reacting to the debate.
We attack ideas, not people.
So, yeah.
Okay, we're going to keep going.
Them to travel to the land of make-believe under a marriage system that oh, sorry, sorry.
But that's that's the difference between the girl, she said something idealistic where you say, Well, you should only be loyal to one man at a time.
And I'm like, Okay, but if I had a girl talking to me, I would ask like five questions before I would recommend being loyal or not loyal.
I'd say, Well, how often is he seeing you?
How old is he?
What does he do?
You know, you need more information.
Does that make sense?
Does that make sense?
It's like, um, yeah.
It's, it's just, it's one is very pragmatic because you have to make decisions with what we are doing today.
And one is idealistic.
Like, we're talking about ideas.
And these two conversations are like kind of going head to head.
Small percentage of people use.
No one uses it today.
You might have said they used it to the past.
Today, that doesn't exist.
So we can't travel to the land of make-believe to make marriage work.
Yeah.
And again, this is the two parts.
It might work in your marriage, but it doesn't work for the greater structure.
Your argument here contradicts itself because on the one hand, you say men don't know enough about marriage, but my assumption is that your mission is to let men know about marriage.
Absolutely.
Okay, well, then I don't understand how it's the land of make-believe if you can let them know about this, but I can't.
Sure.
So if I am, it sounds like I'm offering a real alternative to what you're offering.
And here's what you're offering: Men, marriage is great.
It's a great institution.
It's the best for children.
These are your words.
In marriage, right?
Men seem to thrive.
Their health seems to thrive.
Everything seems to thrive.
You're saying.
I've kind of talked about how that stat doesn't work because the reason that men's health seems to thrive is because they include like alcoholics and drug addicts, like men kind of that are eliminated from the dating pool because their health is so morbidly obese men.
But men that are in shape and just like take care of themselves, there's not really a big difference in health.
Well, the problem is that divorce rates are high and they are.
However, there's a few things there that you haven't covered.
One, it depends on demographic, too.
For instance, if you're black, that's way, it's going to be way worse than if you're white.
Correct.
Okay.
Way worse.
And also, socioeconomics matters, right?
Demographics in general matter.
So you can do a lot, actually, including prenuptial agreements.
You can have a prenuptial agreement with.
Now, the challenge is the majority of women won't sign prenups.
Like when polled.
I have a video on this, how conservatives trick you into marrying modern women, where I kind of debunk a lot of the stats that are used.
Ecclesiastical authority without the state even involved.
And it seems like that would mitigate your risk to damn near nothing.
Super chat, Andrew's old promise is based on an idea that if you run into a non-state recognized marriage, you can't end up in divorce court.
This is proven false.
I don't think he says that.
I think it just, he says, if you're going to do it, then this is the way to do it.
You know, I mean, I think I'm just a little biased because I really like Andrew.
But in his defense, you could argue that if you're going to do it, that is maybe the best way.
But again, again, he's not like coaching men through this.
So, I just think when you're a commentator and you have to cover like 10 issues, there's just specifics that are more difficult for you to get in.
Like, because I kind of stayed out of politics, I can cover dating a lot better.
Like, I can talk about things that are more specific than people that cover a lot of things.
And obviously, for your job, you kind of have to know a lot about a lot of things.
But I think that's where there's going to be like a difference because CGA is, I think he's working with these guys.
I'm not positive, but I think he actually is.
You know what?
Andrew Wilson, he should go up against Redonculus.
Yeah, we should, he should go up against him.
You said if about 50 times.
So did you.
Now, here's what I'm telling you.
I'm telling you when, all right, we're already in this system.
You're going outside of the system to create a scenario for me to argue.
What system are you going outside of?
We're talking about marriage is typically done with the state.
Almost everyone does it this way.
So now you're here.
Hold on for a second.
Hold on for a second.
You've moved the goalpost to a scenario of if, and you're arguing from the if.
Hold on for a second.
You're arguing from the if perspective.
No, listen.
It is a chance.
Go ahead.
You're arguing from a very small percentage point.
Now you're saying demographics, and we can talk about that, but you're still trying to get me to argue in your cloud of if.
That's the land of make-believe.
Most people by far are married to the state.
Not only that, your land of make-believe still exists.
The prenup with the ecclesiastics, you can write whatever you want in that pre-nup.
It only matters in the divorce.
That's the reality.
So I'm still dealing in reality.
You're in the clouds.
Hold on for a second.
You're in the clouds.
So let's take the demographics.
Okay.
In your scenario, it sounds like, which would be fair, your primary concern is with white people.
No.
Hold on for a second.
You said with black people, the demographics, the chance is higher.
Yeah.
So have you discovered the ecclesiastics approach to black people married within this?
Yes.
However, their demographics, economics, which all do affect marriage, has nothing to do in the land of the clouds or the make-believe with ecclesiastics.
It's all going to boil down to in the law.
And there's no church, Reverend, that's going to go into your household to make sure there's social pressure on your wife.
Do you know any?
Yes.
Okay.
Do you know any that can cover the challenge?
Okay.
Because I hear this a lot: like sexless marriages will get the religion in there to like kind of do it for you or apply pressure to the community, whatever.
Men don't want women that feel like they have to have sex.
They want the women to want to do it.
And you cannot outsource the genuine desire to the church.
You just can't.
You can't.
No one's going to do it for you.
The burden of performance of being attractive to your wife is on you.
And I don't think that can really be outsourced to the church.
That answer is no.
Yes.
By the way, when you keep, are we, are we in reality?
I'm trying to cloud.
I mean, we're not arguing anything.
This is in the land of make-believe.
Well, when we know how to respond, okay, give me a second.
Let me finish.
Okay.
What percent?
Let me, I just want to know.
All right.
What?
Okay.
Out of 100 Gen Z men, how many attend Catholic church or what is his church called?
Um, we got to stop saying that women are easily propagandized.
You can.
Cannot run propaganda on people that don't have that desire.
Women are not, I don't really think women are being tricked into anything.
It's what we want to do.
Cause you can Google anything.
You can Google conservative content if you want it.
All right.
Or Orthodox.
That's it.
Oh, my gosh.
I did not realize how rare Orthodox is because it's so common on the internet.
Okay, so 22 out of 100 Gen Z men.
Yeah, that's a minority.
And it's like out of those 22, I mean, half are probably going to be ugly to women.
Like women aren't going to want to marry them anyway.
Okay, let me just keep going.
At this point, go ahead.
You're imagining.
Your imagination is great.
John Lynn, it would be great.
You know, you would be proud of you at this particular point.
I'm imagining all the people.
You're imagining all the people under a situation of the structure that you brought in here.
All right.
But the state highly governs this and the state highly governs divorce.
I'm dealing in the reality situation where I'm trying to counsel myself.
Yeah.
And again, I kind of have to go with what I've seen.
And some of the most horrific divorces I've seen were from so-called very religious, devout women.
And I've just had every really religious, devout person on my show telling me their women are different.
And I've seen all their women throw it back.
So that's the problem I get.
I'm like, I've seen all your women whore out.
Yeah.
Eve bit the apple.
They've been tricked.
Women fought for the vote.
They've been tricked.
Men always think women have been tricked.
I know.
Andrew's more worried about winning than living in reality.
No, I think, I think the deep down like feeling for a lot of those people is they just want a better future for their kids and they're kind of scared where society's heading.
But yeah, let me give information too.
The best thing you've told me is that you're willing to give men the option to do this.
Are they willing to all do this option?
The answer is probably not, just like they're not willing to do what I'm telling them to do.
However, we're both attempting, which is a good thing.
It's noble.
However, your situation rarely exists.
Can we talk about the I had a commentary?
Imagine the kind of awesome sex a guy could have with a woman who's only doing it because a priest told her to jeepers.
I'd rather take care of it myself.
Oh, that's funny.
Reality of what exists?
Sure.
Absolutely.
So let's take your moral religious crusade out of it and talk about the reality.
Are you willing to do that?
Well, here's the thing.
See, you're not willing to do that because it's all based on your reality.
Guess what?
It's a debate and I will argue my points from my view.
How is she fetched?
Not for you to what I'm not going to do is expect me arguing from the land of make-believe.
Yeah, but okay.
And the difference is, Andrew's, it's coming from the Bible or studies.
And in my opinion, CGA gets his information from like real life.
Not to say like, I'm a little bit confused why Andrew thinks this because he's in her, he has all the girls on whatever, you know what I mean?
But do you know what?
I had a similar, I kind of went through a similar evolution to Andrew.
So I kind of get it because you kind of think the world is one way.
They're saying CGA doesn't have any solutions, but Andrew does.
Well, okay, and I'm going to tell you the equivalent of that.
So if you're a business owner and you say, okay, guys, I need solutions.
And you're like, okay, when you're a business owner, you might have a five-year plan, but you really think of things in terms of six months.
What do we have to get done this month today?
And if your solutions aren't things that you're really in control of or you have the power to enforce, and from what I've seen, this like religious theocracy or whatever, I don't see in real life, it doesn't really mean anything.
You know, I had a solution that women shouldn't vote.
And I'll use myself as an example.
That was one of my solutions.
But who cares?
It's a like to me, it's a stupid solution because it's never going to happen.
Women are never going to give up power.
All right.
So anybody have my turn?
Anybody have the sound effect for the no, it's not that I don't like solutions.
I don't like solutions that are not pragmatic.
Like if you look at like Ryan Stone's work, nuclear Caudillo, even Rolo, they're very detailed in their solutions.
Like if your wife does this, say that.
And even some of the PUAs, like they tell you how to increase attraction from your wife so she doesn't divorce you.
And they're very detailed.
And you only get that detailed by coaching people.
Like that, that's really the only way to do it because they're going to bring you questions on how to do it that you're just never going to think of.
Like sometimes I have women message me strategies or I'll even tell my sister and I tell them, get on hinge.
You know, these are the pictures you need.
You need to pose this way, this way, that, you know, and by the way, and I'm not a coach, so real coaches probably would have more detailed solutions, but you know, I could say go to different bars at this hour or whatever, you know.
Does that make sense?
Like they're just talking from two completely different like points.
No, I don't think Rolo's full of crap.
I really don't.
I think he's really smart.
I just wish he liked me.
The television show where the train comes through, Mr. Rogers.
Let me know because I want to be on, you know, I want to be on earth.
You said I liked Pearl's solution of having two houses in one.
You can lock your wife out of half the house.
CGA's solution is something most men don't want.
Most men want to return to this 1950s.
CGA can go be free, free AG lifestyle.
Free agent lifestyle.
CGA wrote a book of solutions.
Yeah, men are having a hard time accepting the reality of women being whores.
They're having a hard time.
All right, let's let Andrew respond.
Yeah, so the thing is, it's funny that you bring up Imagine all the people with John Lennon, which is an anti-religious song.
And hilariously enough, was designed to assist with female empowerment.
Isn't that hilarious?
But the thing here is you keep on saying that what I'm offering is make-believe, but it's not.
It's been governing the Orthodox and Catholic Church for 2,000 years, including in this country.
Now, here, let me give you an example, for instance, the Amish, right?
Do you know what the divorce rate is among them?
It's almost non-existent.
Yet they're still governed by the same laws of the land that you're speaking to.
So sounds like if I give a counter, if I say, look.
Oh, my gosh.
I'm sorry.
It's not.
Social pressure is not pragmatic.
Because again, I have to look at what I've seen in the last five years.
Social pressure hasn't worked because women are sluttier now than they were five years ago.
Now it's my sister goes to school with girls that are on OnlyFans.
That didn't happen when I was in college.
People are always going to be scared to do it because there's too many consequences for doing it.
So to make any choices based on like that there might be social pressure that changes things, it's just not overly intelligent.
Like I kind of have a wait and see attitude.
If it happens, it happens, but I wouldn't really bet on it.
And the way all of the trends are saying that things are going, it's not a good, it's not a solution.
I can give you a way, a methodology in which you can utilize the religious ecclesiastical institution, which has existed for 2,000 years and has right now the lowest divorce rates, right?
Social pressure works like spades.
I don't, no, it doesn't.
These women are going to stay hoes.
I mean, do you know how many Muslim women do backdoor with people that are in town?
This second as we speak, not make-believe land, not hundreds of years in the future, right this second, as opposed to the system you have of common law divorce, which is sky high and you can't do anything about it.
That's what is true.
So pointing out what is true, what is true is right now you can have a prenup.
That is true.
What is true is hold on.
Let me pull up my video.
Doug, can you send me time stamps of the relevant parts of my video?
Men trick you into marrying modern women.
I don't want to play the whole thing, but I think there's, if there's a stat he brings up, I want to bring up me debunking it because there's so many stats.
They're hard to keep track of.
But I know the challenge with prenups is one, they can be thrown out.
Two, most women won't even sign them.
And there's a third thing.
Prenups are usually held up in court.
That is true.
What is true is that you can have.
No, the most prenups, some prenups are held up in court, but the stats aren't really good on that because they're coming from law firms.
So if you're a law firm selling prenups, why would you be honest if they suck?
You know what I mean?
It's kind of like if you make food.
Yeah, and they can get thrown up, thrown out with the stroke of a pen.
A marriage outside of a state because it's a religious institution anyway.
You never have to have a license with the state.
It's never been necessary.
And if you do, the only way that that can be done is if it's sacramental.
And if it's sacramental, it's governed now by the church.
That's going to be the community the women are a part of.
And so the thing is, it's like, that sounds like a real viable solution.
What's yours?
More fucking degeneracy?
Go out and play the field, hump a lot of chicks.
How's that going to work?
Here's the frustrating thing.
Okay, so I'm going to tell you a story.
So I found out my, I had a brother I didn't know about that my parents got pregnant with really young.
And when I was growing up, they always said, wait till marriage, wait till marriage, wait till marriage.
And I, and I, that was really difficult.
That's a tough sell.
I'm going to be honest.
For me, I wasn't raised overly feminine.
I didn't know much about men.
I think it's kind of why I'm so interested in this stuff is because growing up, I really wasn't like taught any of this.
So it's a tough, it's not a tough sell if you're raised as a super feminine like woman.
It's submissive.
That's not how I was raised.
So asking a guy to wait till marriage and also not bringing much to the table.
That's that's a tough sell.
And that's what I was trying to sell when I first got to school.
And it was, it was, nobody was buying.
I'll tell you what.
And I told my mom, I'm like, mom, why did you tell me to wait till marriage when what worked for you was getting pregnant immediately?
I'm like, that's what worked.
No, I'm not saying, I'm not saying like that it was good you did it, but a lot of times people have to be cutthroat to get what they want.
And then they're cutthroat or they do the wrong thing.
They end up getting the result that they want.
And then they tell you not to do it.
They like kick the ladder out from under them.
And it's like, well, what did you do?
And like that's that's kind of you never like it's like a different kind of conversation, you know, like how how soon did you and your wife sleep together?
You know what I mean?
Like, did you play the field?
You know, and so it's almost like these guys and that, and that's what I told my mother.
I'm like, you should have told me to just throw it back and let them finish inside of me.
And they'll probably stick around if they're like a white upper middle class guy.
I'm like, I would probably be in a better position.
I'm dead serious.
I'm like, yeah.
And I'm not saying that's moral, but I'm saying that's probably pretty pragmatic.
Anybody do anything.
That's been the progressive mantra for 100 years.
Isn't it wonderful?
Your turn.
All right.
We're returning back to earth.
Now, first things first, when it comes to this, back in reality, there's no God in marriage.
So Mr. Sky Daddy, God, religion, that's all great, but there's no God in marriage.
At this particular point, when you go through a marriage, if one person decides to not obey the holy Bible.
Well, you know, see, you say, nope, odds are you'd get knocked up by a chat.
Well, what did my mom do?
Now I gotta, I gotta think about this.
She went for the engineering department.
I'm just saying, you get knocked up by an engineer.
Now, I'm not saying to do that, right?
Does that make sense?
But I'm saying if we're going to go off of results, and people have a really hard time doing this, where what results did you get by doing that?
Yeah.
Bible or whatever you're thumping, you have no basis to keep that marriage together.
If she decides to leave the church and decides not to listen or excommunicate herself, she's now under the state.
I agree.
Now, when you're getting divorced, which I'm assuming you've been divorced, I mean, that's a hell of an assumption to make.
Have you been divorced?
I mean, have you been married?
Can you tell me if you can tell me how that has any merit?
Give me a second.
Because if you've been through one, you would know.
Okay.
Because again, see, Andrew, it's a different type of argument.
That's why these, they always talk past each other.
Andrew's trying to like saying, let's stick to the facts.
And he's saying, no, what happened for you?
What worked for you?
And it's a very different type of conversation.
Pearl, your mom beat the odds.
I don't think so.
I'm going to be honest.
I don't think so.
I'm going to be honest.
Most of the girls I knew that got pregnant young, and I have to go off of what I see.
They're still with their dads.
I'm just, I see that as a way higher success rate than waiting till marriage in 2025.
If women aren't raised to be wives and super feminine, it won't work.
And I could, I could tell you that because I've lived it and I've been inside of these churches, man.
I've been inside of them.
That there's no God in the divorce court, in the family court.
There's no God in there.
No one asks.
There is the state in there.
There is the state.
So that's what we're arguing.
Yeah.
That's when you get married.
So you're no.
Feminism is a strategy that women use men's protector instinct against them.
Everybody benefits from this.
Anybody that married late benefits from it.
Any, yeah.
So telling me if, and I'm telling you, well, this is what's going to happen.
Even if you took Sky Daddy into court with you, they would say you prayed to the judge.
The judge is the authority in the court.
So the God argument is a nice, interesting argument.
And I probably am not going to stay on the conversation very long because that's your God.
That's your sky daddy.
That's your religion.
I have a different religion.
So, who have you been?
Okay, so then again, God, you guys are just so unpragmatic.
How do you make a woman be you cannot religious people tend to be really controlling?
And you can't bring God into marriage.
It's there's two people in it.
You can't control another person.
If she doesn't want to be religious, she won't be.
Listen, who gives you the authority to change the understanding, the conversation to your religion?
That's your religion.
I'm not changing the conversation.
Okay, so it only works.
It only works if you believe in your sky daddy.
That's the only way it works.
And that's the only way you're going to advise men.
We're talking about mitigating risk.
No, no, no.
We're talking about can men get into a marriage today only under your sky daddy.
That's what we're assuming.
Okay.
Now, can they do it otherwise?
Yeah, you can have secular marriage.
Okay.
Go ahead and explain.
Okay.
Yeah.
Make it work.
I just did.
Make it work.
The argument that you have is that marriage is great.
It's a great institution.
We already covered this.
Nice straw man, Pearl.
That's how I know you're a loser.
I'm sorry.
It's like I say you can't control another person.
You're strawmanning me.
Okay, get out of my chat.
Get out of my chat.
You find a God-fearing woman.
Yeah, but there's no incentive for her to stay that way.
And you can't control her if she changes her mind.
And women change their mind all the time.
Personal attacks.
Oh, no.
God couldn't bring Eve to religion in the Garden of Eden.
Men are not learning from the Bible at all.
I know.
Great.
We already covered that.
What made it great?
Can we go into why it would make it work for your secular?
That's the question I ask you.
You're asking me questions back.
Go ahead and go ahead and answer the question.
So if you're talking about secular marriage, there's never been any point to it.
I'm sorry.
There's never been any point to secular marriage ever.
Never.
What would ever be the point of secular marriage?
It's always been a religious institution.
That's what made it great.
Now, when you say it's a great institution, what made it great for secularists?
Other than the fact that Sky Daddy and God had all these enforcement arms and those things had to be enforced socially.
Like, for instance, men weren't allowed to run away.
And women, right, they had to show cause for these divorces and they had to be good causes.
They had to show it for things like infidelity, right?
It's all biblically governed.
It was all lawfully governed by this sky daddy guy you like so little.
But that's what made the institution great in the first place.
And what you're talking about here, you're making a point that divorce is bad.
And yet, I agree, divorce is bad.
So what we're really talking about is how do we mitigate the risk for divorce?
And we have two different methods here.
Well, the conversation is marriage good for men.
That's the conversation.
But it is.
We already said it's good for men.
That's not even in dispute.
Now, how do we make it better since they're avoiding it?
Since men or women are avoiding it.
It sounds like the thing that you think makes it bad is divorce, not marriage.
Correct.
Then we need to make sure that we're 15 minutes in and we are in the land of reality.
You finally called up.
Can you tell me how we can get to the secular marriage?
I mean, I've given you a chance.
You're dragging your feet.
So again, secular, there's never been any point to secular marriage ever.
Now, listen, marriage is for child creation.
It would be great for child communities and all of these things.
And now, listen, by the time the religious aspects got into marriage, they were chopping people's heads off and burning Bibles.
So listen, I know we want to take it back to the past and act like the past was better.
But there's always a negative part.
I don't find talking about history the most useful.
I understand why people do it, but again, I have to make decisions on the world I have today.
So, you know, saying women respond well to social shame and that's what you should bet on.
It's like, but I look outside and women are starting OnlyFans.
Okay, Doug MPA got me the time stamp, which we're going to debunk.
We're going to debunk some of this.
Let me put this up here.
What did I do?
Hold on, how do I open this back up?
No, is it Firefox?
Hold on.
Where'd it go?
Oh, Chrome.
That's it.
Okay, how conservatives trick you into marrying modern women.
Okay, 11.
Okay, we're going to talk here.
I should point out that I'm continuing to develop my in-depth documentary on modern divorce with a huge emphasis on to point out that many of these people are religious in name only.
The Institute for Family Studies, which in reality is nothing more than a pro-marriage propaganda outlet masquerading as a scholarly organization, have made great hay with the claim that regular church attendance seems to correlate with a 50% reduction in the likelihood of divorce.
In fact, this claim ties back to a 2018 Harvard study, which found that super devout Christians who attended church more than once a week reduced their likelihood of divorce by 42%.
Not those who attended once a week and certainly not those who attended less.
Broken down, this is a 32% reduction of risk for Protestants who attended church more than once a week and a 54% reduction for Catholics who showed up multiple times a week.
The difference between the two largely being the greater hostility towards divorce within Catholicism.
Nevertheless, 28% of super devout Protestants, 16% of super devout Catholics who attended church multiple times per week still ended up getting divorced, a risk of roughly one in four for Protestants and a Russian roulette risk of one in six for Catholics.
Furthermore, according to Pew data and also lifeways research, only 12% of both Catholics and Protestants attend church more than once per week, with most of these people being middle-aged or older, not in their 20s and 30s.
So even if men were to make the commitment of being super devout, there would be nowhere near a large enough pool of available church girls to go out with.
So despite what fake tradcons would tell you, religiosity is hardly a solution for the male population to overcome the risks of divorce.
But as I mentioned, most members of the fake tradcon could give a damn about the male population at large.
They're mostly interested in using the divorce issue as a foil for recruitment.
And it goes without saying that not all super devout women who don't believe in divorce will necessarily be all sweetness and light after the wedding.
Some men will find themselves trapped in toxic marriages with female religious fanatics who call all the shot, are stingy with sex, and weigh their husbands down with all sorts of unreasonable demands and moral standards.
Never mind the massive potential for a religious wife to turn out to be a hypocrite.
We shall probably never know what percentage of super devout marriages are genuinely happy and what percentage are not, since keeping up with the appearances and keeping marital problems secret are notorious part of how super devout couples operate.
But what are the benefits of matrimony to men?
Marriage advocates frequently talk about how on average married men benefit from greater health, happiness, and financial success.
The U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics indicates that married men earn 10 to 20% more than single ones.
But please bear in mind that is largely due to a higher financial burden placed upon a married man.
Yes, there is the cost of children, but more significantly is the average cost of materially satisfying a wife.
Now, part of this is evolution.
Women's nesting habits can prompt the purchase of everything from a nice house to silverware to otherwise useless throw pillows.
And part of this is social status, with women being far more likely to push for luxury brands or to go on two vacations a year.
All told, a wife can't quadruple a man's household expenditures.
Meanwhile, a single man can be satisfied with far fewer possessions, mostly the basic essentials, plus some recreational purchases like TVs, game consoles, and sound systems.
Beyond that, most single men are satisfied with far less, some even being perfectly happy with a studio apartment and a mattress on the floor.
Ensure married men earn 10 to 20 percent more money because their wives make it so they well have to.
As for happiness, the general social survey in 2022 indicated that roughly 33 percent more married men take the box for being very happy compared to single men.
And a 2019 article in the Journal of Marriage and Family found that depression was 47% less common among married men than their single counterparts.
However, that's really not the whole picture.
According to the Journal of Psychological Medicine, the 40 to 45 percent of married men who get divorced see their depression rates skyrocket again by 312 percent, far outstripping the depression rates seen among single men.
So, congrats if you're married and it works out.
I'm not denying that there are successful marriages to good women that could potentially make men happy.
The point is that men today are running a considerable risk to the tune of 40 to 45 percent of those attempts at happiness blowing up in their face and leaving okay.
I have a video coming out about what your actual odds are in marriage.
Yeah, here.
Let me go here part of the past.
If you go back and you look at the English, this has all been there.
People were getting their heads chopped off.
The crusaders were doing their things across countries and they were spreading Christianity through threats and violence.
Now, that's what you're trying to uplift.
That's what you're trying to uphold.
I don't even know what the hell you're talking about.
You wouldn't know what I'm talking about.
That's where you're lacking.
I have no idea.
Catch up.
You're sitting in the crossroom.
That was when your holy marriage was the best marriage that you're trying to go to.
Now, listen, in the 1950s.
So, what he's saying is you can't romanticize the past.
If you weren't there, you don't know.
You can speculate based on evidence, but I'm going to be honest, guys, I don't want to be a farmer.
And if I was born in the 1950s, I would have to be a farmer.
Were we crusading in the 1950s?
What the hell are you talking about?
You talked about the institution of marriage for 2,000 years.
Yeah.
Sir, do you need me to catch you up on what you're talking about?
You're having trouble keeping up with me.
You're having trouble carrying up with me.
You said 2,000 years ago.
Truly.
And I told you 2,000 years ago, they were chopping people's heads off.
Which has what to do with it?
I need you to catch up with me, sir.
Okay.
If you want to take things back to the past, you have to accept everything as the past.
You can't just cherry pick.
Now, here's the thing: you're cherry-picking.
If you want to take things back to tradition, take it all the way back.
Why stop at the 50s?
Take it back to the 1890s.
What you're saying right now is so incoherent.
I actually don't even understand.
Well, that's what, listen, when you're running out of bullets.
No, that made sense to me.
It's because we have a tendency as people to romanticize different eras, but it doesn't really matter.
Like, it's kind of a useless conversation because we're alive today.
There's pros and cons of every generation.
The 1950s, my husband probably would have died in the war, or I'm working on a farm.
Screw that.
I want to be a streamer.
Sorry.
Yeah.
Running out of bullets.
The last thing we do is the shame.
All right.
I'm not even trying to shame you.
It's just incoherent.
I need you to catch up with me.
Okay.
Catch me up.
Just say you're lacking if you can't keep it up.
All right.
Now, here's a problem.
Here's a parent.
Here's a problem.
Here's the problem.
I don't know what to tell you.
Here's the problem you're having.
2,000 years ago if every chopping heads off.
Who gives a shit?
What does that mean?
You said that 2,000 years ago.
I'm coming up with yours.
You're holy religious 2,000 years ago.
It's been a part of the world.
What does it have to do with this?
Exactly.
Here's the problem.
You're cherry-picking.
Cherry-picking what?
Listen, I'm listening.
I'm going to slow you down.
I'm going to slow you down because I see what you're doing here.
I'm going to slow you down.
Okay.
Because it's hard for you to keep up.
It is.
I understand.
I understand because you haven't been across.
This is your toughest debate.
Your audience knows this.
Oh, it's rough.
There's no God in marriage.
Okay.
In the United States.
Can we agree to that?
When you get to divorce, there's no God in marriage.
I can't agree to that.
We need to agree to it because when you go into divorce court, there's no God.
bringing your god and your bible let me see um Here we go.
This was a stay-at-home traditional wife.
You're here.
Thank you.
I filed a motion for temporary orders on three different specifics.
One is to have John vacate our marital home.
Secondly, for the court to accept my proposed parenting plan.
And thirdly, to have a court order mandate.
Okay, so someone's saying in the chat, they're saying history is relevant.
And this is kind of how people get manipulated, not always intentionally.
Okay, if the women in the 50s were a certain way, does that matter to the women you have to pick from today?
No, it doesn't matter.
It doesn't matter if things were once one way, if they are one way today.
Today that John paid child support and spousal maintenance.
We've been married for 16 years.
I have been the at-home mother to our five children and have homeschooled them for the last nine years.
I also manage the majority of our children's extracurricular activities, which includes their involvement in Boy Scouts, orchestra, piano lessons.
recently my boys are now involved in a hunting certification class and i often carpool for my son's irish dance class i have chosen our children's pediatrician settlement or okay so she's a stay-at-home wife She says that part.
Let me go to the part where he.
in the house the kids want it okay now we're gonna now we're gonna talk to where the guys talk It was just a repeated question.
I don't need repeated.
What I need to know is you have indicated he makes X amount of money.
And your basis for doing that is you went through all the bank records and you came and you spelled all those bank records out and this is the money he's made.
He's indicating in his taxes he makes X amount of money and significantly less.
I want to know what the difference between the two of you is.
That's it.
I don't need to know everything that's in the paper.
I want to know why your position is right and he's going to tell me why his position is right.
Mine is documented with bank statements.
Anything else?
No.
To try to summarize what's going on, she's unhappy in the marriage.
That's what she wants is a divorce.
We're one big happy family.
We work together.
She just moved out of the big bed two or three months ago and we get along fine.
There's no danger.
There's no abuse.
My business is integral to staying in the house because there is all the inventory, which she also didn't mention, and all the inventory.
The suits.
I'm a custom tailor.
So there's all kinds of things in the office.
The whole bedroom is full of feral apparel.
It's very disruptive to move it anywhere.
We do just fine together in the house.
The kids want us to stay married.
Everything works just fine as it is.
And I would submit that to try to break this up or do something or make a decision today would not be wise.
I would petition that we have an evaluation done for our family with a social worker master's in social work to help us find out what really is in the best interest of the children versus breaking this up, which I propose would be.
Okay, so long story short, he gets kicked out of the house.
He's a custom suit designer with a housewife, a Catholic guy.
He like sent me his footage.
And yeah, now he's getting kicked out of his marital home.
The audacity.
Okay.
And at that particular point, none of your ecclesiastics marriage works.
Okay.
Period.
So the thing is, you just said, can we agree that there's no God in marriage?
And then he said, we don't have to agree.
But hang on, calm down.
And then you switched over to divorce.
There's no God in divorce.
But those are two different questions and propositions.
Hang on, relax.
The second thing is, is that me saying that what made marriage a great institution is this whole Sky Daddy character and that the institution has been in place for 2,000 years.
And it's been calm down.
And it's been a strong institution.
I'm not actually sure how tying in.
You got to let men know what they get out of this because all the churches, they're going to be dead by the end of the century because they just cannot tell men like what they're going to get out of this.
That at the time they cut people's heads off, what that has to do with the fact that in the 1950s and 40s, you still had 95% of these marriages staying together.
This is not ancient history.
This is not even early American history.
That's, hang on.
That's in your grandfather's lifetime, basically.
And by the way, that was the case for black marriages as well.
Very strong institutions.
But all of those institutions were that way because they followed that whole Skydaddy thing.
They were like, oh, that Sky Daddy's going to smite us if we don't.
And so what you do here is you're giving the classic.
I don't think women have ever feared God.
But I think it's more, yeah, like women.
Sorry, I just don't believe women ever have had the fear of God in them.
You just, I mean, Eve didn't fear God, you know, but it was more pragmatic.
Women had to stay with beta bucks back then.
It's not like we wanted to.
We'd rather die than be with beta bucks, but we had to then.
Progressive argument, which is, well, you know, guys, it is true that it's a great institution.
And it is true it's the best place in the world to have children for the continuation of the species.
And also, it's fantastic for men's health.
It's fantastic for their mental health.
It's great for them in almost every way.
But that divorce thing is real bad.
And I counter, you're right.
That divorce thing is real bad.
We have now a center of agreement.
But now we're going back to the marriage in the West thing, which is that whole great institution problem.
Well, if we agree that what made it good, which you just did, is hey, that skydaddy guy.
And then I point out that right now, you can still utilize that skydaddy guy for an ecclesiastical marriage outside of the state.
Hang on.
And women don't fear God.
The only thing you could do is say, what about common law?
But you can't govern anybody from common law.
And at least in the ecclesiastical institution, you have social pressures on women to, I'm, if Andrew wants to argue, maybe it's like better than regular marriage by a little bit, sure.
But look, Andrew, again, it goes back to like, you can put these studies in front of my face, but at some point, people are going to believe their eyes over time.
And I have seen, one, I grew up in a religious area and I've seen how terrible those wives are.
So I know you're not getting anything special by picking a religious woman.
I know you're not.
I know.
And I know the reaction to that is though, those women don't count.
They weren't real religious women.
I'm like, yeah, really?
I don't know.
They went to church weekly and like one of my best friends, her mom cheated at work.
You know, it's like, Yeah, you know, you could argue maybe it's slightly better, but a lot of people got divorced eventually where I'm from.
Stay married.
You can't offer a man anything like that.
Give me a single social pressure you can offer that would actually keep these marriages together.
One, what?
One, just one.
Can I answer something you just said?
This would be interesting.
I can't believe you said that.
But can you answer that question?
Then ask me.
No, before, before.
Oh, the 1940s.
Of course, you gotta ask me a question.
Because listen, I'm listening to you.
You asked the question at the end.
If you would have asked it at the beginning, possibly I might have been able to address it.
But let me address this point.
You said the 1940s and 1950s with this imaginary Sky Daddy controlling marriages.
That sounds like enforcement because by the time the 1970s came around, the very first chance, women got to file a no-fault divorce without need for evidence, without need to have a private investigator to prove an affair.
It was no fault in the 70s.
Yes, it was the 70s, started by Ronald Reagan.
I'll educate you.
But hey, it came along.
Hold on for a second.
No, no, no, no.
I got the floor here.
I got the floor.
So you said the religious institutions governed it and made it great.
The 1970s came along.
And as soon as they did, women start to file divorces at rest.
Yeah, as soon as women could leave betas, they did.
Women hate being with beta male providers.
Rates, which is back to my conversation.
Soon as you remove the authority of Skydaddy, now you're back with the state.
And now you have difficulty.
And now the risk is now greater.
Wow.
So that's the issue that you.
It sounds like men should be moving towards Skydaddy then because it mitigates their risk.
The courts, the nation should be encouraged.
There's no courts.
But how do you enforce that?
That's a good point.
Oh, he just, he made CGA made a really good point.
He said the nation should be moving towards that, but how do you enforce that?
And the truth is, if you look at all data, it's not going towards that.
What courts?
You're not getting a marriage from the state.
What courts are involved in?
$20.
A make-believe.
I agree that women have always been this way throughout history.
Ancient texts write warnings about female nature and how it leads to the ruin of men in society.
In my opinion, civilizations are cyclical and we are here for the ride.
Please scenario.
How?
You can do it right now.
How is it make-believe?
How do you do that when people this is?
Here's marriages through state.
I know you want to go back to ecclesiastics.
This is the first time.
No, I'll tell you, I can do it right this second.
Okay.
You can go do it right now.
You can do it at this particular moment.
However, what do you mean?
Here's the problem.
Okay.
Can you get men to do it?
Yes.
Okay.
You might be able to think you can get men to do it, but as soon as they do it, I want you to stick around for the average of eight to 10 years when these men start getting divorced.
See, what you're doing is you're leading for so long.
You've been leading, you're going to lead men into a burning building.
And the reason why, and this is a famous quote by Martin Luther King, is because the laws.
You really, I wish he wouldn't wave.
I wish he wouldn't kind of wave this away with like a hand, the like leading men to like it's the same reason I cannot in good conscience recommend marriage is because I've seen too many men on the brink of suicide.
I can't do it.
I just can't.
Like I don't want to recommend something and they make that choice and then like they end up committing suicide because I've seen men on the verge of that.
Integration didn't catch up fast enough for what he wanted for people to integrate.
And what happened was it took him 12 to 15 years to realize that he led men or black people into a burning building in which integration was not possible at the time.
You are also proposing the same thing.
And I would like for you.
Someone said they're saying Tom Brady is a beta now.
He was a beta, but he it was just to Giselle.
Like he'd be alpha to a lot of women, but Giselle was with like the top alphas in the world.
He can't compete with that.
You know what I mean?
Stick around to see the results of what you're proposing because eventually you would have to pay the price.
How did Martin Luther King pay the price?
You would have to pay the price for the men that you misled.
So Martin Luther misled men, and that's why he was killed.
No, he's saying if the guys listen to him and follow him and then make a bad choice, he like Andrew's not going to be the one that pays the price.
It's kind of like I felt really lied to with how conservatives in my early 20s, they said dating was supposed to go because I went to college and I'm like, what am I getting taken on dates?
You know, traditional dates.
And they're like, do you want to Netflix in jail?
And that was everyone.
It wasn't just me.
I wasn't special.
Black people.
You missed that part.
Okay, let me repeat it because you're slow.
All right.
You definitely are slow in Neanderthals.
Let me tell you something.
I'm dragging.
Martin Luther King said specifically related to black people and civil rights.
I'll speak slowly for you that he believed at the end, he led them into a burning building.
I'm going to speak slower.
The reason why is because the laws of integration did not catch up with what he would like to present.
Black people weren't ready to integrate.
As a result, he said, I may have led my people, my people, that means his people into a burning building.
You were, I would like for you, under your scenario, if your movement takes off to see the results, because it took Martin Luther King 12, 15 years to see the results of his efforts.
You're proposing something very extreme that majority of people aren't going to do.
But let's just say if, because you like to hide in the clouds of make-believe, this works.
I would love to see you represent these men in a divorce when they get their head bit off by these so-called women that are forced by Sky Daddy to stay in these marriages.
This is really like, I don't even understand how you don't understand.
I know you have a hard time understanding.
I don't actually even understand how to respond to a lot of this because it's so incoherent, but I'm going to try and.
Oh, yeah.
See, this is.
No, I thought that made sense.
This is his always incoherent when he understands.
Perhaps you don't understand.
That might be what it is.
And it's okay to say you don't understand and I can speak slowly.
I don't understand now, but I'm going to tell you why.
I'm going to speak.
Of course, dismissive.
I mean, you know, I'm going to tell you why.
When you're losing, just say you're losing and I can speak.
Let me know when I can talk and he gas out.
Go ahead.
Okay.
So here's a typical tactic, but you can work that against these OnlyFans.
You can work that tactic against those OnlyFans girls that you debate, debating 23-year-old ignorant women.
They're smarter than you.
But now they're sitting across from a person.
You're sitting across from a person here.
Oh, no.
That's looking at a Neanderthal saying you don't understand something very simple.
How do you know when he gasped out?
This is the simplest thing that you can understand.
Your go.
Yergo.
Are you sure?
I can actually do it this way.
Please put me to sleep.
Okay.
So put me to sleep.
Here's why it's incoherent.
And there's a bunch of this I don't understand.
You keep on saying that these men are going to get divorced and yet I'm proposing non-state marriages.
How are they going to get divorced?
Well, you can only say then via kids.
Common law.
But again, you have no defense yourself against.
These are if scenarios.
I don't know.
I mean, I don't think I was going to debate somebody that's going to come.
Why do you think this is a real scenario?
Like a real scenario.
No, but I don't think he.
Andrew's not answering the question.
He's got to answer about leading the men to slaughter.
The entire time.
Give me something to speak about.
You're giving me a mask.
You're trying to invite me to your church.
I'm just going to church.
Please give me a real scenario.
You have to shut up long enough for me to do it.
Come on, please.
I've been here 30 minutes waiting for you to do it.
All right.
Give me a real scenario.
Okay.
So, what I don't understand here again, and I'm going to ask again in your incoherent worldview.
Okay, please.
You keep on saying that these men who I propose this to are going to get divorced, but I'm not proposing that they get married through the state.
The state's the one who does the divorces.
So, the only thing you could say is that there's a potential for common law here, but that's something you yourself cannot guard them from by your own admission.
The second, okay.
So, ecclesiastical marriage refers to a marriage that's performed and recognized within a religious institution.
Um, it's a religious ceremony, sacrament.
Okay, so then let me ask, how many states would that kind of marriage hold up in court?
Okay.
Wait, no, let me ask this a different way, because Grock is, would an ecclesiastical marriage hold up in court if the state looks
like it would not be held up in 41 states?
So, Andrew's saying this will lower your risk slightly, but I don't think most guys are really afraid of the marriage part, it's more the kids.
Problem that we have here is that it's, I don't have to stick around for 10 or 15 years because we can look at the numbers right now in religious marriage for what this looks like.
And here's what this looks like: if you're a Catholic, you're way less likely to get divorced.
It's not true, it's not.
I just kind of went through the numbers in that video, but again, when you've seen what I've seen with religious people and getting married, those women are, if not, they're more scary.
You get nothing out of being religious.
Um, you have to lose your desires and genuinely believe in it.
That's the point of it.
No one should ever become religious to get married, but God gives you a happier life for sure.
If you're Orthodox, even less likely to get married.
What?
Well, I'm saying, like, the hard part is the child support because that's 18 years.
Like, I mean, I guess alimony isn't as big, but the big thing is child support.
And it's because of that ecclesiastical structure.
You're not ever going to be able to prevent all risks from divorce, not under anything.
Thank God.
That's not that.
That's the most realistic.
But not under any system is that going to be the case?
But why are Catholics getting divorced?
How do they get divorced?
They get annulments.
They don't even get divorces.
And it's a really long process.
Andrew, it's not rare.
Sorry.
Sorry.
It's just, do you know?
Okay, so do you know what it's like when people who like I grew up in the Catholic faith?
So that's like 18 years minimum, and I was in it for a few years after.
It's like 20 years of experience with religion.
And it's like people are like describing it, but you're like, no, I've lived it.
It's not rare.
Have a similar divorce rate than the secular.
No, so they have a very close.
So, how do they get divorced?
I'm going to ask Christians get divorced.
I'll answer your question.
Please tell me.
Because I know how to get divorced right in the divorce court.
Yeah, I know.
So, because they caught a state marriage, right?
Yeah.
And I'm proposing that they don't do that, right?
Okay, a land of make believe.
If how's that a man make believe?
You can go do it right now.
Tell me what are you talking about?
What percentage of people do this particular thing that you're doing that you're proposing?
Why would that matter?
Let's say one person.
Why would that matter?
One person.
So you're taking a because if it was a good strategy, people would use it.
That's like men use strategies that work.
Um, yeah, I like Andrew.
Nothing against him, but I think CGA is winning this.
I think it's more maybe because I side more with him.
Like, I would say I agree more with CGA than Andrew, but I don't really.
This is kind of the first time I've ever seen Andrew lose a debate, to be honest.
All chance.
You're arguing against me that has millions of people on my side.
You're getting divorced when you don't want to.
But you're telling me a small 20 people in a little house.
Yeah, but it's the same thing because you're not working with guys, Andrew.
CG, I think CGA actually works.
It's just a different specialty.
Also in the prairie.
Yeah.
Dude, that do these that you govern people without electricity and you riding horse and carriages.
You're telling me this small percentage of people are going to lead a movement of doing something you're proposing here on YouTube.
This is going how many people are doing this?
Okay.
Why would that matter?
It would matter because then we can use some data to determine: do these people end up in divorce?
Well, we can more than likely.
This is great because we can look at the data.
So let's look at two, please.
Do you want to look at the Catholic data and Orthodox?
We're talking about your ecclesiastic proposal.
That's the ecclesiastical proposal.
Using Catholic and Christians, their divorce rate tends to be very close.
I'll look at us.
It's very close.
Let's not take it away.
Hold on for a while.
Yeah, but the challenge again, Andrew, you're using older people in that data.
So you're using people that were married 20, 30 years ago in a completely different time.
And also the super religious ones.
Again, I went through it in that video earlier.
You just got to watch the video I made on that data set.
It's not, they take a really small sample size.
They don't account for a few things.
It's like based on how often the couple goes to church.
Like if they go to church like a bajillion times a week or something, they don't take to account that like the couples, if they're not getting along, they might stop going to church together.
They don't take into account the age of the couple.
They also include younger couples, like in their 30s and 40s, which like, let's say you get married at 30, average divorce is at 40.
You're including people that haven't gotten divorced yet.
You don't know how social media comes into account because again, women have a dating app basically on our phones, which gives us access to higher status men.
I think one could like guess that that would lead to more mental illness, more divorces.
They also don't take into account what percent of women are actually religious under the age of 35.
You know, So it's Christian Christians.
Okay.
Self-identity.
No, no, let's just put Christians.
Christian and Connie.
You have to tell me what a Christian likes to dice up all of these people.
And listen, listen, I would love to go to your church one day.
And if you take that, if you really want to go to that study, it's like Buddhists or something that were the lowest divorce rate.
Yeah, I've witnessed successful Christian marriages for almost 50 years, and I'm not impressed.
Their husbands are spineless and hempact.
That's what I've observed.
Be a wonderful guest, and I would love to dump the Bible and I would love to say a prayer with you.
However, this conversation is entering.
Can we pull up my screen?
Very much a skydaddy conversation.
It's about belief.
Brought up Sky Daddy.
You brought it up.
Got the divorce rates pulled up right here.
That's not how you brought that up.
What is that?
I go through this data set and why it's not, it's really not the best.
Trust me, I've seen Catholic marriages.
I'm not impressed either.
Religious.
Or if you're an atheist, you should be able to contend with that.
A lot of people would not want to do that.
You're telling me a small percentage.
Who cares?
We're talking about mitigating the rates of divorce.
It doesn't matter how many people.
Yeah.
So again, and this is kind of as a content creator, you kind of go through this.
When you first start, you want to look at the data and say, my data, you know, this data says this, so do that.
But it's really not that simple.
You know, like you see, oh, well, you know, virgins have the longest marriages on their wedding day.
So do that, you know.
But it's not until you've experienced it like in the real world that you can go back and say this works and this does.
Like it's different when you're talking from experience.
And there's not a single thing any of these people can say to me.
I have seen Catholic marriages and they suck.
They suck.
I've seen them.
Move forward from this one.
We agree to disagree.
No, we don't agree to disagree.
So you want to argue in your land of makeup.
I want counter arguments.
I'm not going to argue in your land of make believe.
Yeah, because you can't.
You have no counter arguments.
No, because again, Andrew's saying, look at my data.
CGA is saying, I work with these men.
Who do you believe?
And that's, and that's kind of like where the debate's going.
That's the difference kind of between the red pill and a lot of like the more conservative leadership.
You don't have one counter argument.
Here's a cop.
Here's a counter argument.
Okay, what is it?
There's no God in marriage.
How many times do we have to say that?
Yeah, and people always want to discredit anecdotal evidence, but it just, in my experience, again, if you go off of the data sets, it's just you're trusting either an institution or what some YouTuber tells you.
It's way better.
Like, imagine if you go on 10 dates and try like 10 different things about what works and what doesn't work in dating versus what someone says on a podcast.
You are going to learn more and know more when you go on the 10 dates.
Yeah.
All right, wait, let me go back with you.
Uh-huh.
However, this conversation is entering.
Can we pull up my screen?
Very much a skydaddy conversation.
It's about belief.
Brought up Sky Daddy.
You.
Yeah, you brought it up about the children.
That's not how you brought that up.
What is that?
That is a religious argument.
If you're an atheist, you should be able to contend with that.
A lot of people would not want to do that.
You're telling me a small percentage.
Who cares?
We're talking about mitigating.
I think you have Catholic friends that have been married 50 or 60.
I've seen it too, and most of them suck.
Most of the women are just snagging their husbands for an eternity.
The rates of divorce.
It doesn't matter how many people.
If we move forward from this one, we agree to disagree.
No, we don't agree to disagree.
I want counter arguments.
I'm not going to argue in your land of make-believe.
Yeah, because you can't.
You have no counter-arguments.
You don't have one counter-argument.
Here's a counter argument.
Okay, what is it?
There's no God in marriage.
How many times do I have to say that?
That's an assertion.
It's not an argument you end up in divorce court.
God doesn't matter.
None of this matters.
That's real.
That's the realest argument that you can possibly hear.
Soon as you well, not in my experience, Pearl.
Well, that's fine.
But generally, with religious people, they have an ego belief in religion.
So they can't really see past it, even if it's like in front of their face.
And it was tough for me at first, but then the reality hits you in the face and you can't unsee it.
Hold on for a second.
Hold on for a second.
I'm going to tell you how.
Okay.
In the 1940s, which you so love, I don't know why you don't live there.
You look like you live there.
You're dressed like you lived there.
Here's the problem.
Hold on for a second.
Hold on for a second.
Here's the problem.
Okay.
These people under your authoritative godly marriage still got divorced at high rates.
No fault divorce showed up.
It started at 25%.
Then by the time you get here, it's close to 40 and 50%.
It's still prevalent.
I'm giving you.
Yeah, because the women that got divorced in the 70s, like they were born.
Yeah, he's right.
Actually, that's a good point.
They were born before that.
The reality here.
You're trying to drag me back over here to the little house on the prairie.
It's not working.
It's not going to work with me.
How about this?
How about a couple of traditional?
If traditional marriage, there's still 49% of people that are happily married if that's true.
Why doesn't marriage have a better reputation?
I gave you one.
Come on, man.
What is the counter?
Come on, man.
It's not a counter argument.
What's the counter argument?
There's no God in marriage.
And that's an assertion, not an argument.
God's not an argument.
There's no divorce.
Okay, well, there is a God in divorce court.
All right, guys, it's my birthday, so I got stuff to do.
I might finish this tomorrow if you guys request it, but I'm kind of getting tired.
Um, anyways, guys, let me know what you think in the comments.
Please let me know.
Um, please subscribe to the channel.
Um, right now, I'm thinking CGA is winning, but it could change later in the debate.
I don't really like it when he's like insulting each other.
Um, especially CGA was kind of throwing insults into him.
I don't really like that, but um, it is my birthday.
So, if you want to, you want to send some, send me some money.
Yeah, don't say happy birthday.
I want, show me, I want $20.
$20, damn it.
Do I look like I work for free?
I'm just kidding.
I'm just kidding, anyways.
Anyways, what do you guys think?
Is Andrew winning?
Is CGA winning?
I thought this was a great debate, though.
To me, this was like the it was like a Super Bowl, you know.