Kenzie, a self-described hobby debater since December 2021, defends Colorado’s unrestricted abortion stance while calling late-term procedures "disgusting," yet insists women bear no responsibility for their choices—even as she blames feminists for ignoring men’s labor sacrifices. She argues men in dangerous jobs (logging: $42K avg.) sustain society’s infrastructure (80% of global production) without gratitude, while women in teaching ($72K avg., 3 months off) are overcompensated. Dismissing systemic barriers, she claims women avoid male-dominated fields like construction due to unwillingness, not oppression, and frames child-rearing as a privilege, not labor. The debate collapses amid accusations of emotional language and misplaced analogies—like equating patriarchy to Nazism—leaving her core claim: men’s work is more essential than women’s, yet feminists prioritize their own struggles over "real-world" male hardships. [Automatically generated summary]
So, as you guys know, I love having conversations, not only with people that have similar points of view, but I also love to invite people on the show that have different points of view.
So, I saw Miss Kenzie debating Andrew Wilson, and I was actually really impressed.
I thought, Andrew, he can cause a lot of people to crash out.
He can really, he could really, you know, I'll say debating Andrew Wilson is not for the week.
He was not for the week.
And I was actually impressed how she stayed calm, composed, cool, and collected.
So, today we're invited to her on the show to have a discussion about feminism and some of the topics we might disagree on.
I do ask the chat, guys, if you can.
As long as the guests are respectful to us, we are respectful back.
So, if you guys super chat personal attention, you can debate, you can super chat a difference in opinion, but I'm not reading any super chats that are just outright mean, okay?
You guys do that to me sometimes, and I'm just not a fan of it.
So, you know, that's my two cents from the chat.
But thank you guys for tuning in.
Welcome to the show, Kenzie.
Thank you, Pearl.
I appreciate you having me.
So, do you, just Kenzie or Miss Kenzie?
What do you prefer?
Kenzie's fine.
Okay, great.
So, first question before you, before we get into like some of the topics we wanted to go through today, how did you get into, how did you get into debating?
And how did you end up on whatever podcast?
So, in December of 2021, I was just kind of at home by myself.
I had recently been introduced to TikTok by a girlfriend of mine.
Okay.
And I was just scrolling.
I normally skipped lives within my scroll, but I happened to just cross one.
I think it was Big John Steele was doing a religious debate, and I joined that.
And then that led to an abortion debate, and then the abortion debate and kind of the abortion niche is where I really got my start in debating.
Cool.
So, what's your, what's your, is this your full-time job?
Do you do something?
Because most people aren't able to like talk about these topics.
And I was just curious if you do something during the day or do you do this full-time?
Yes, I do have a day job.
Okay.
Do they know or what?
No.
Oh, they don't.
I mean, it's more of it's a hobby at this point, but no, I try and keep that separate.
Okay, cool.
Do you mind?
What do you do?
Do you do you share or no?
If you don't, it's okay.
I don't share.
Okay.
Sorry.
Okay.
No problem.
Okay.
So for this conversation, we're going to have a debate.
I go by the rule: no personal attacks.
So we could attack the argument, but not each other.
Are you good with that?
Sure.
Okay.
Okay.
So since you're the guest, I will let you pick of the topics we said we were going to discuss.
Which one?
Do you have one you want to start with?
No, I was just going to take my cue from you.
Okay, cool.
So why don't we start with women being you said abortion.
So why don't we start with abortion?
What is your take on abortion?
In what capacity?
I guess just to kind of summarize, it would be: I don't think there should be any legal restrictions on abortion.
Really?
So you think it should be legal up to birth?
Correct.
I would follow the Colorado model where there's no laws legislating abortion.
Wow, that is an extreme position.
I don't think so.
Wow.
So you don't see any problem with them aborting like a fully formed, like they have a heart, like the day before they're born, you're okay with aborting it?
Yeah, so I would just define abortion as the deliberate termination of pregnancy.
So if it's the day before, I don't know, a scheduled C-section or whatever, we would just induce birth.
Okay, so you would just have them give birth instead of aborting the kid and then would they kill it after?
Or what would they do with the kidney?
Well, I don't think abortion is like intrinsically this idea that it's designed to unalive the fetus.
It's designed to terminate pregnancy.
Okay.
But even when it's fully formed, you would say, but sorry, I'm just, I'm trying to go through what you said with it being, you guys kind of make up all these words and it kind of confuses me.
So what word did I make up?
Well, because I would just say it's a kid the day before it's born, right?
That doesn't answer what word I made up.
So I, well, it's kind of like when you say it's a fetus instead of a baby.
Like I would call it a baby.
You guys would say fetus.
I understand it's a difference in semantics.
Again, that doesn't say what word I made up, but fetus is just a gestational time period reference.
So a fetal is eight, a fetus is eight weeks gestation two.
Okay.
So my opinion on abortion is I do give up.
I think women have, I think it's disgusting.
I think it's wrong.
But I do think women have fought really hard for abortion and I give up if they want to kill their kids.
I personally would say that we should make a deal with the pro-life people or the pro-choice people.
And I think we should meet you guys at like three to six months.
Would you be open to if we could stop arguing about it, a deal at three to six months?
No.
Or you would say nothing until full birth.
So I think it's really interesting when pro-lifers, is that how you would classify yourself?
No, I've given up.
I've given up.
You guys can kill your kids.
So if you want to say, should there be negotiation or middle ground with pro-lifers?
No pro-lifer can really give me the landscape of what termination and pregnancy looks like within the third term.
Like, at what rate is this happening?
Canada doesn't have any restrictions on abortion, and they have a lower abortion rate than the United States.
Yeah, I would say one is too many.
Like, it's pretty disgusting for me.
What does that mean?
I would say one abortion at nine months is too many.
Like, that is disgusting.
What does that mean?
That one abortion at nine months.
What do you mean when you say like disgusting?
Like what?
I feel you're just kind of doing an emotional appeal.
No, I would say it's, it grosses me out personally because you're ripping the limbs off one by one, crushing the head and vacuuming the kid out.
That's pretty gross.
Have you seen it?
I mean, that's actually not true.
I would say that's pro-life propaganda.
There is what we call a DNE that does create disarticulation.
But often when we look at abortion within, when we look at termination later in pregnancy, it's often just induced labor and people give birth to stillborns.
Yeah, well, I would say that's still disgusting.
Okay.
But, but I give up.
You guys can kill your kids.
Okay.
Yeah.
I mean, again, this, this really to me just doesn't move the conversation any further.
I think you're just using emotionally charged language without any kind of critique.
Well, you could say that, but this is a conversation.
I say that because it's true.
Well, this is this is a conversation, so I'm giving you my opinion.
I don't.
Right, but if we're if, okay, if that's where you want it to stop.
So again, if you, do you want to reduce abortion?
Would that be a common goal?
I've given up.
I've given up.
I think women want to kill.
I think women want to kill their kids so bad that they just, they will do anything to kill their kids.
Even abort a kid, even abort a kid at nine months.
I don't think the focus is like a desire to kill children.
I think the focus is not to be forced to sustain pregnancy and to have control over family planning.
Yeah.
I would say I would agree with you that they don't want to be pregnant, but I just think that you're kind of retarded if you get pregnant when you have IUDs, birth control, natural family plan.
Like, I mean, you know, your phone, it literally tracks when you're ovulating.
And you have, like, it's like the women.
The women are too dumb to.
The rhythm method is the most ineffective way to, what we say is birth control.
That's 60 to 70% effective.
IUD.
If you want to talk about IUDs, that's great.
So Colorado instituted.
Colorado instituted the LARC program.
Plan B. Plan B also.
They can put a pill in your head.
At this point, I just, it's like men invent everything for us to not have kids and we still can't do it.
You can't get an abortion in the middle of the morning.
No, obviously there's capitalist barriers that are in the way.
If we look at Colorado, Colorado instituted the LARC program, which stands for long-acting reversible contraceptives, where they made IUDs free to people 16 to 20.
And it significantly reduced abortion rates.
And the program actually paid for itself because people who would have been forced to sustain pregnancy no longer needed additional state services in order to care for those children.
So yes, if we want to reduce abortion, I'm for public funding of long-acting reversible contraceptives in all contracts.
But that's but that's like, but then, see, you go back to it.
This is why I think feminists want women.
Really, women are a protected class in society.
Now you want free, free birth control, really?
Yeah.
You can't pay for like, you can't pay for your own, your own, like, why, why does the state have to pay for your decision?
Well, number one, it stays, it saves the state money in terms of welfare programs that are needed in order to take care of children who are subjected to poverty.
And obviously, a state is necessary within a system of capitalism.
Okay, well, we're not talking about capitalism.
We're talking about abortion.
We are talking about capitalism because you just said, why does the state have to pay for people?
It's not going to have enough for birth control.
I'm saying on an individual level, I don't understand why.
People are subjected to poverty, so therefore they can't afford birth control because of capitalism.
Yeah, so you want someone else to pay for it.
If it gives them access to health care, yes, that's an effective system.
I mean, that's how private insurance works.
What are you talking about?
Okay, now we're talking about insurance.
Well, yeah, don't you like, do you support private insurance?
I don't have an opinion on it.
Well, I think you need to fundamentally, because this is also talking about like private insurance is just a pooling of premiums in order to pay other people's deductibles and costs.
Okay.
You would have a fundamental opposing against that if you're for people paying for other people's health care.
I think that if you want to have casual sex, that's totally fine.
You're welcome to do that.
But I do think you should be responsible enough to pay for your own.
Most abortions are from long-term committed relationships.
Yeah, I agree with that.
Then why did you say casual sex?
Um, I probably misspoke either or.
I don't think that was a misspeak.
I think that was misogyny.
Okay.
Because you're saying women who get pregnant and need abortions are sluts, right?
Let's be honest.
Um, no, I say they're irresponsible with the amount of birth control that there is today.
Right, but why highlight that people who get abortions are engaging in casual sex?
Uh, well, I would say a good percentage are partially.
Uh, no, 60%, closer to 70%, are due to long-term committed relationships.
Well, then, what's the other, what's the other 30%?
Um, well, come on, stop it.
What do you mean?
I mean, come on.
Sorry, I didn't know.
What makes more sense?
What do you think causes pregnancy?
Is it the number of partners or the volume of sex that you're having?
I would say it's being irresponsible.
We're again, we're not talking about responsibility because you said it's from casual sex.
Again, if I'm having once a month, I'm less likely to get pregnant than if I'm married and having sex with my husband every night.
I don't care how it happened.
Um, either way, I would say you're being irresponsible.
Define irresponsible making a choice you can't pay for and you expect other people to pay for.
Why is that irresponsible?
Because that's part of being an adult is paying for your own decisions paying to have sex.
Yes, I mean, there's a call.
Is this like a class thing then?
Like, if you can't afford birth control, you just shouldn't be having sex.
So, if you're in poverty and can't afford birth control, don't have sex.
Is like kids now something that only like rich and middle-class people should have?
Um, I do think that if that's a choice you're gonna make, uh, you should be able to pay for it.
Well, but I would say that you would be pro-abortion if someone can pay for their abortion.
Are you saying about the responsible thing rather than depending on the state?
Are you saying poor people are too dumb to take birth control?
No, I'm saying that they don't have the means to purchase it.
I mean, condoms are free at a lot of places, sure, and they're but you also need transportation, you need time in the event you might not have one.
I mean, 54% of abortions are due to failed.
Why do you think so?
Why do you think so little of 44 of abortions are due to failed contraceptives?
I don't think little of poor people, I think poor people should have resources like free condoms.
You don't.
I would say that you actually think like poorly of poor people, like free condoms.
I think that they so you're for free condoms, but not for free, the free pills or free IUDs.
Well, it's not well, it's not what I think should be, it's what is.
Well, I think we should talk about odds, right?
No, about odds, oughts, what ought to be.
No, I don't believe in ought.
I think we should talk about what is why because this is the real world, right?
But we're this isn't this is kind of the problem you get with women is women, women do think in oughts, right?
That's why I said I give up on abortion because this isn't Pearl's world where I wave my finger and get what I want.
I live in the real world.
Do you say I live in the real world where I live in the real world where women can and do have abortion?
But when you talk to women, they think debating is really, you know, doing something.
You know, so I try to talk about what is, not what I wish.
This is all like, this is the, this does nothing for the conversation.
I think when we're talking, like, do you think do you support oppression?
No.
So you think we should live in a world where there is not oppression?
It depends what you mean by oppression, but you just said you didn't support it.
So it sounds like you knew what I meant.
And now I'm asking you if that's an ought claim.
Now you want me to define it.
Well, why don't you define it?
Pearl, I just asked you, do you support oppression?
I mean, you said no.
Yeah, because that's kind of a stupid question.
Well, if you don't support it, then to me, that says you have a concept and an understanding of what oppression is.
I even asked you what your definition of oppression was, and you said the dictionary definition.
So even if we go by that, you don't support oppression.
So do you think we ought to live in a world where people are not oppressed?
I don't live in oughts.
I live in is, which probably kind of is a good pivot to our next, um, our next topic.
That's a dodge.
To our next topic.
So, all right, let's let's talk about female oppression.
Uh, you, I'm assuming, think that women are oppressed.
Yeah.
Okay.
So, what what in what ways do you think women are oppressed?
I think women are oppressed by capitalism, women are oppressed by uh sexual violence, women are oppressed by race, um, by ableism.
I mean, really, if we talk about any kind of capitalist system, I think there is some form of oppression built into where women are disadvantaged.
Okay, so in what ways, day to day, are women oppressed by a capitalist system?
Women are more likely to be in poverty.
Okay, keep going.
Women are more like, sorry.
Oh, I'm listening.
Keep going.
Women are have barriers when it comes to certain employment and they're earning a profit.
They have additional obligations that put them into labor that is non-paid.
Okay, so barriers.
Sorry, say that one more time: barriers when it comes to barriers to wage labor and social obligations to unpaid labor.
Social obligations to anything else?
I'm sure there is, but those are off the top of my head.
Okay.
Why do you think women are more likely to be in poverty?
Because they have barriers to wage labor.
Okay.
And because they have social obligations to unpaid labor.
Okay, what are the barriers to paid labor?
Sure.
Well, like, obviously, the wage gap.
Okay, wage gap.
Keep going.
What else?
The social obligations or expectation when it comes to family care.
When it comes.
Okay, what else?
Anything else?
Those are off the top of my head.
I think those would be the two main points.
Okay, so you're saying that women are more likely to be in poverty because of the wage gap and social expectations when it comes to family care.
Yeah.
Okay.
So I would disagree with you because the majority of you know, I think it's actually ridiculous that women are anywhere close to paid the same as men when men produce 80% of the world's stuff.
Why is that the barometer?
Because you need people to keep society running.
Right, but you're talking about just people producing products rather than people offering service.
Women offer high, like women are often in service positions.
Yeah, and I don't think they're as valuable as the positions that men do.
Like, we wouldn't even have houses if we didn't have male carpenters.
You can't have service positions.
Do you think healthcare is valuable?
I think healthcare is valuable, but women.
That's service, isn't it?
Yeah, but I don't think it's as important.
You can't have health care without the houses that women are in.
You can't have people if they're dying from disease.
I guess you could say that.
The other thing is 63% of scholarships are given to women.
So women are really, I would say, given a head up in life because they're given the majority of scholarships.
Women are given preferential treatment.
The majority of college college enrollments are women.
So it would make sense that they get scholarships at a higher rate.
Yeah, because education favors women.
No, women typically need education in order to have access to higher labor or higher wage.
Not really, because we own all of the student debt.
We don't own all of the student debt.
Are you kidding?
We own the majority of it.
And we don't own the difference is that it makes sense because we're going to college more.
And the difference, I know, but the difference is we don't go into STEM and we don't pay it back.
Men are two times as likely to pay back their student loan debt than women.
Okay.
That's preferential treatment.
I mean, I don't know.
That's women getting all the benefits without the responsibility.
I don't.
I don't think so at all because you would need to look at the causes why women are struggling to pay back student debt.
Could that be due to family planning?
That they have kids and they're unable to work.
Women aren't having to take a lower wage.
Women aren't having kids.
They are having women are not having kids.
The birth rates decline massively.
Just because this decline doesn't mean that we're not having children.
And we're not having a lot of kids.
And you have the choice to not.
And this is what I mean when I say this is what I mean when I say feminists.
You want everybody to pay for your poor choices.
So if you want to get an abortion, if you get an abortion, you want other people to pay for it.
If you want to go into a job market that pays less, you want to blame the patriarchy instead of going into STEM.
If you're not smart enough to do STEM, women do go into STEM.
It depends what STEM industry we're talking about.
I mean, the majority quit after five to ten years.
They can't stick around and do it.
They choose to quit.
You don't have to have a source on that.
You don't have to have, you don't have to.
I mean, you can Google it, Kenzie.
It's not what your claim is.
Women on average.
Because I have a feeling it's a lot of people.
Women on average don't stay in STEM.
They don't.
Well, give me the source, girl.
I mean, come on, you read, right?
You can Google it.
It's at the top of Google.
Kenzie, if we're going to.
I'm not looking to do your homework.
I'm looking to read what you have read, Pearl.
Okay.
So.
Wait, how do I go?
22% of some students are women.
Look.
And this is what I mean.
It's like she comes on my show and she wants to overtalk me.
I think feminists have no idea how insufferable they tend to be.
Are you done?
Are you going to be polite?
If you're going to have an attitude, I'll kick you.
It's all right.
So I would say my bottom line, and I'll go into this, is that if women want to make choices, they have to pay for them.
So whether that's going into STEM or not going into STEM, you are responsible for your choice.
I don't like to blame these external factors for my choices.
Well, of course not, because you think everything exists in a vacuum.
I don't know what that means, but okay.
Okay.
So it means that you think that something exists independently of certain systems or environments when that's just not true.
I think that you're responsible for the choices that you make.
Would you agree or disagree?
What do you mean by responsible?
Okay.
Are we going to do this all day?
Where you're going to say, what do you mean by that?
Or can you say things perfectly?
Can you answer what kind of concept you're conveying to me?
So that's why I'm asking you to clarify your concept.
Are you an adult?
I just want to have an adult conversation here.
I don't think you do.
Well, you going to answer the question or no?
What question?
Do you think women should be responsible for the choices they make?
What does that mean?
I just can't believe I'm talking to an adult right now.
You don't know what that means.
Again, that doesn't do anything for me.
I don't know why you set this standard of let's be polite, let's be respectful.
I asked you to clarify your position and you're like, oh, I just can't stand you.
Like, give me a break.
Okay.
So what I mean is if you make a choice, are you responsible for that choice?
I'm asking you what that means.
So let's smoke cigarettes.
If you make a choice.
Let's say that someone smokes cigarettes.
Okay.
I'm going to answer now.
If you make the choice to get an abortion, are you responsible for it?
Yes or no?
I don't know what you're asking me.
Okay.
If you make the choice to go into STEM, are you responsible for it?
Yes or no?
I don't know what you're asking me.
You can change your choice.
Okay, so if you make the choice, if you make the choice to get a bunch of debt, are you as an adult responsible for that choice?
I'll go ahead.
Like in terms of paying it off?
Yeah, are you responsible?
Or is it your fault that you signed up for the debt?
Is it your fault that you signed up for the debt?
Yes.
Is it your fault?
I don't know what you mean by your fault.
Obviously, it was your choice to take out loans or credit cards.
Okay, and so you should be responsible for it.
Obviously, you agreed to the obligation of paying it back, sure.
Okay.
So if you make the choice to get an abortion, are you responsible for it?
What does that mean?
If you make the choice to get married, are you responsible for the choice?
Are you responsible for that?
You just keep asking.
All right.
Crash out.
It's just crazy.
Okay, I'm going to go.
I just never understood liberal.
This is not a crash out.
This is just your inability to comprehend.
All right.
So we're going to, don't be rude.
So response definition.
Having an obligation to do something or having control over or care for someone as part of one's job or role.
So you're asking me, if you get an abortion, do you have a duty?
Are you the, are you the art?
Oh, no.
Oh, no.
Sorry, I clicked something.
Are you the primary cause of it?
Like, if we say whose fault was this, would you point to yourself as long as it wasn't great?
No.
I think it's men's fault.
It's men's fault for getting you pregnant.
Yeah.
Okay.
So why do you think that is?
Did the men make the choice for you to bang to have sex or did you make the choice?
You made the choice to have intercourse.
Okay.
Did you make the choice to take an abortion pill?
Yes.
Okay.
So how is it the men's fault if you had an abortion?
Well, because they're the cause of pregnancy.
How, how, like, can you get pregnant without sperm?
No.
So who puts the sperm in the uterus?
So I would say that during conception, it's 50-50 as long as both parties consent.
Well, no.
Like, I can consent to sex, but not consent to him putting his sperm in my uterus.
If we're going to talk about obligations or duty to act, I would say it's men's duty.
Did you choose the condom?
To maintain control of their biological material.
Did you choose the condom?
Yes or no?
Did you consent?
Who got the choice to wear a condom or not wear a condom?
You or him?
I mean, obviously both parties, but even if I choose not to wear a cond, not to wear a condom, like obviously he still has the choice to like, you know, chisen a sock.
Who made the choice to get an IUD or not get an IUD?
you or him?
Well, I mean, again, is, is choice just dependent on desire or is it also dependent?
I need, I need.
I need a whose choice, him or you?
I don't want to make this more complicated than it has to be.
Well, of course you don't because you don't want.
Nope, there's the nagging again.
You or him.
You're just bad faith.
You or him.
I did not come into this in bad faith, actually.
You absolutely are in bad faith.
There's the nagging.
Okay, so who, whose choice was it to do the abortion?
Or sorry, whose choice was it to get an IUD?
Who got the choice to go to the doctor and say, stick this up me or don't?
Whose choice?
She can't do it, huh?
I can't do what?
You can't say it.
You can't say anything's the women's fault.
Well, I think, again, you want to consider this within a vacuum.
I think a lot of women want to prevent pregnancy.
So if they have the means to get the UIUD, yes, it's their choice.
If they don't, then obviously there's a bunch of way.
Woohoo!
You did it.
Okay, so next.
Yeah, because you actually.
Nope, nope, nope.
All right, so next.
Girl, are you able to engage without?
All right, so next, next, we're going to keep going.
So whose choice is it to take the birth control pill?
The man's choice or the woman's choice?
It's the same answer as the IUD.
I don't know why you think it would be different.
Okay, let's keep going.
Let's keep going.
So whose choice is it to consent to sex with a condom or without a condom?
That would be both parties.
Okay.
Who do you think statistically?
So we're going to keep going.
We're going to keep going.
Who do you think doesn't want to wear a condom?
I would say both.
I think both parties love raw sex.
I think more than likely men don't want to.
So we're going to keep going.
So now we're going to go to the plan B. Let's go to plan B. Whose choice is it to take the plan B or not take the plan B?
Same answer as the IUD.
Okay, so whose choice is it to have an abortion or not have an abortion?
Well, obviously women's.
Okay, so now that we're going through and the women had all these choices and the men, I mean, they had the condom and the pullout, maybe.
But I would say those are equally irresponsible men on the women and the having the sex.
Why do you think men are more responsible when women have way more choice in this?
Because again, the singular action that it takes to conceive is that sperm needs to be in the uterus.
And that is 100% within the control of men.
So because they get to choose whether to jizzen you or not, really?
Yeah, like exactly.
Because the sperm just doesn't appear, right?
Okay, but you have the choice to put a barrier to that.
And it's still there.
Right, so do they.
So that's equal choice.
It's not equal choice.
We went through it.
We went through it step by step.
It's easy choice.
The barrier is equal because the only barrier is a condom.
Well, you could say it's equal.
You could say it's equal, but that doesn't mean it's true.
Okay.
Well, all right.
So we're going to go into women being more likely to be in poverty.
I'm going to give my take, and then we can go back to yours.
I think that women are more likely to be in poverty because they spend too much money.
I think women have a tendency to spend more than we earn.
Part of this, you can see, is by our going to school and picking majors that do not benefit us.
We also make 80% of consumer buying decisions.
We own 80% of the world's debt.
What does the 80% of consumer buyer decisions have to do with anything?
Well, buying is spending money, is it not, Kenzie?
It's spending money, but it doesn't mean that you're accruing debt.
Well, I would say if we look at student debt, women own it.
Men have more credit card debt.
Men have more mortgage debt.
Yeah, but women own it.
The only debt that women outpace men in is right, but the difference is men pay back their debt and women don't.
They still have more debt.
Right.
And again, what's that source?
But debt is not a problem if you can pay it back.
What is the source?
I can get you the source in the comments after, but it's really going to slow down.
Well, it's not your show.
It's too bad.
And here's my issue, Kenzie, and I'll let you go.
If we go through this and I have to bring up every source, it's just we're not going to be able to have a conversation.
I can't.
Well, I'm going to keep muting you.
I'm going to keep muting.
I know you have to.
Well, yeah.
If you just.
Well, she's going to keep going.
She's going to keep going.
We could do it.
We could do it after.
It's totally fine.
But it's just going to be a back and forth.
And I'm going into good into this in good faith.
I'm not assuming you're lying at every point.
But I am assuming.
Okay, well, that's fine.
But if you want to stay on the show, if I go on to your show, it's totally fine.
If you want to stay on, we can do it after, but we're not going to do this back and forth every single time.
So you can either abide or you can not.
If you want to opt out.
Well, I'm just going to say na-a.
Oh, sorry.
Well, she's interrupting again.
You done?
All right.
So I can just say na-uh, right?
I can just say the exact opposite.
Nope.
Okay, well, here's pleasant.
Feminists are always so pleasant to work with.
So, really, I would say my main point is that women are not responsible.
And I would say it's because they spend more money than they have and they want everybody else to pay for it.
And I would say that women, if women wanted to be responsible and pay for their choices, we should go into STEM.
But no matter what, even if I have a point A, point B, point C of why we are responsible for our choices, we just, I don't know what it is.
We just can't admit it.
Go ahead, Kenzie.
I'm ready.
Do you think a majority of teachers are women?
Yeah, the majority of teachers are women.
Okay.
Do you think that teachers are one of the low-paying industries?
Not really, no.
I think women have a tendency to complain about pay when usually they're overpaid instead of underpaid.
So I'll give you an example.
So in order for us to have crab, there's a guy that dies on a fishing boat in Alaska every single week.
And you never hear them complain about their work conditions.
But the people you hear complain about their work conditions are the women that get three months off in the summer.
So, no, when you get three months off in the summer, I don't think you're underpaid.
What is the average teacher salary?
Off the top of my head.
I know it varies state by state, off the top of my head.
I couldn't tell you.
It depends on the state you're in, but we can look it up if you really want to.
I'm sure you have it right there.
So I just think it's disingenuous to say that teachers are underpaid or a part of a low-paying industry.
I think we like, to me, that's just something that we can easily agree upon.
And so if we're recognizing- $72,000.
I don't think that's a good idea.
Right, that's the U.S. national average.
So it depends.
Like, again, when you talk about the state, $72,000 in my state is not very much.
$72,000 in California is not very much.
And again, there can also be teachers who are paid as little as $45,000.
I would say that.
So I would say, are you interrupting now if it's these rules for me?
Yeah, chill out.
Relax.
So the average logger makes $42,000.
So I would say they're underpaid because they could die doing that.
I understand that you might not like the kids, but they're not going to kill you.
Go ahead.
That's just a whataboutism.
So we're talking about industries that are underpaid.
And if you want to recognize that teachers are underpaid and just say, hey, women, go into STEM, then we're not going to have teachers anymore.
Oh, no.
Whatever.
Is that an outcome that we want?
Whatever will we do?
Maybe the men will go back into it and education will flip around.
Well, no, if men, why would men go into it if it's low paid?
They go into other necessary industries.
Loggers are low paid, and that's mostly men.
And that's one of the number one deaths.
And that's number one of the number one deaths in the United States.
Truckers is another one.
But here's the thing: men don't really complain about work conditions.
Men have awful work conditions where they actually die or can get heavily injured on the job.
And then they're not complaining.
So, and this is the thing.
I think one is too many.
There's no teachers that are, there's no teachers that are dying from teaching in general.
So, all right, you gotta, you got it, you gotta let me finish, Kenzie.
You can go, but you gotta, you gotta, this is my show.
You don't get to go on someone else's show and overtalk them.
If you're not okay with that, you're welcome to bounce.
It's not about well, well, there she goes again.
There she goes.
Okay, so I actually find it a little bit offensive.
Not that I'm actually offended, but I have thick skin, I can take it.
But I think it's ironic that teachers complain about their pay when they get off for three months of the year.
And there's a guy that dies from crab fishing on oil rigs, loggers.
And what feminists tend to do is you guys try to minimize it and say, well, but not that many men die.
It's how dare you?
One is too many.
And you're such a privileged class that you could say, oh, not that many men die when you're sitting in an apartment or a house built by a man.
When a lot of times many men's lives are sacrificed to keep you safe and having the amenities that you do.
Now you can go, Kenzie.
Good job.
So when we talk about workplace deaths, I would just say that that's an outcome due to capitalism, because obviously it's going to cost an employer more money in order to implement safety measures.
And when it comes to like crab boats, we're obviously looking at poor working conditions, which a lot of employers aren't going to care about risking their employees' well-being because they still need to produce product in order to gain profit.
So again, these are issues with capitalism.
My whole point with I don't think it's that many men that die a year is that you made a contradiction and said it is.
It is many men who give their lives for capitalism.
Do you think sexual violence is an issue?
Now we're going to go to another thing.
So my point is not about capitalism.
That's kind of a whole different topic.
What I'm talking about is it's something called gratitude.
Yes, yes.
Where if men are building the society that you get to live in.
So this podcast, Mike, invented by a man.
The desk I'm sitting in, the wood was probably gathered by a man.
And there are men that die in order to keep you safe and protected.
And as a thank you, feminists in general, I can't say if you do this personally, but you guys, there's no gratitude.
You're constantly complaining about women's problems and minimizing men's.
So that would be my two cents.
Go ahead.
I don't think it's about minimizing the oppressions that men experience under capitalism because those are.
But when we look at patriarchy in tandem with capitalism, the reason that men are within these positions is because of that combination of gender role, because patriarchy requires a dependency on men.
It's interesting that you highlight male contributions.
When it comes to female contributions, obviously that is care to children.
That is reproductive labor.
Without that, there isn't society.
So I don't know why you act like men are responsible for everything good in the world and that women just do nothing.
You minimize women's labor and glorify it.
Yeah, I would actually misogyny.
Well, I would actually agree with you.
And it's because women, we just have a tendency to not be very good at it.
So like we can't, we can't, I need you to not, I need you to stop.
You can do it.
So, for example, you said that women are responsible for childcare and having kids.
We're not having kids, and we're more likely to abuse infants.
We're more likely to commit an infanticide.
We're more likely to abuse the elderly.
So, the other thing I would say is you mentioned that it's because of gender rules.
Kenzie, go apply to be on the oil rigs.
Go apply to be a logger.
You're not going to do it, and feminists in general won't do it because you can't, or you're too lazy to.
Those are hard jobs.
So, when women start doing the things that men are doing, I will stop minimizing them.
But what we do is we take the easy jobs and we still complain.
We still, we still complain.
So, so no, I think that's a unfair characterization.
When you talk about like child abuse and elderly abuse, sure, I can agree there's a higher volume for women because women are more likely to be taking care of children.
Let me guess, it's not their fault because they, because they, it's not their fault because they care for the elderly and the kids more, right?
Is that where you're going with it?
I'll go ahead.
You know, it's are you like just fine?
Are we rage baiting or is this just like there's the nagging?
She wants to say, do the show how I want you to do the show.
It's not a standard that I am setting.
It's a standard.
She's gaslighting.
She's going to gaslight.
There she goes.
There she goes.
You can unmute now.
You can go ahead if you want or stay.
For what, Pearl?
What's the point?
Well, if you follow the rules, don't worry.
It's not following the rules.
That's not what this is about.
Gaslight.
Here she goes.
I mean, you set the parameters and you don't follow the rules.
Well, let me ask you this.
Now she's going to nag more.
Okay, so I want to stick to the topic.
You can do it.
If you're so grateful for me, she's going to crash out.
She's going to crash out.
Now she's going to crash out.
I knew it.
She wants to know where my kids are.
Should I put them on stream?
Where's your male?
I know, I know, I know.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Let me put my personal life on the internet for all the nice feminists like you.
Well, it's a contradiction.
All right.
Yeah, I mean, that's totally fine.
You have centered career.
All right.
All right.
I know.
I know I'm the worst, whatever.
That's not what I said.
I said you've centered career.
All right.
Now we're going to go personal.
There she goes.
It's like I could call you a catfish, but I'm not going to do that.
Fine, go ahead.
You know, it's like, all right.
So I want to stick to the men, okay?
Do you agree?
So I want to stick to male jobs and female jobs.
No, you don't.
I want to say that.
So I want, yeah, now she's saying, I want to talk about whatever I want to talk about.
I would have questioned, I would have questioned your life.
So I'm going to go through a couple jobs that I have listed for men versus women.
So, all right.
So here we go.
Top male professions, electrical engineers, aircraft pilots, agriculture, construction, firefighting, manufacturing.
We wouldn't have houses.
98% of carpenters are male.
95% of truck drivers are male.
Aerospace engineers, male.
Farmers, 87% male.
Zero Nobel Prizes have been awarded to all female teams.
We're not really invented too well.
Female, no, you could say, you could come in and say, women, what are we doing to contribute to society?
We do so much, we are just held back.
I'm sure that's what you think.
I mean, it's like women, we can't even put the donut down to not be fat.
And we're saying that we can be aerospace engineers.
I don't think so.
We got nurses, school psychologists, social workers, occupational therapists, a medical record specialist, assistants, floral designers.
I just can't say that that's as important or needed as, I don't know, the buildings we're in.
Like, we wouldn't even have food if the truck drivers didn't bring it to us, the farmers.
I mean, they create 80% of the world's stuff, 75% of the world's food.
So, yeah.
I would say that.
I'm sorry, is there a question here?
I would say that men's jobs are more important than women's because we could not have a society without women's jobs.
So, if women started doing 50%.
I agree, we couldn't have a society without women's jobs.
Oh, sorry, men's misspoke.
But if women wanted to do 50% of the carpentry, then I wouldn't have to, you know, if we did 50% of the construction, I wouldn't really have a problem with them.
I wouldn't really.
Women's participation in construction has gone up 22% in the last 10 years.
And it's still barely anybody.
Like, this is what they do.
This is what they do.
They say, we went up from 2% to 10%.
Look at what we're doing.
I'm like, 22% in 10%.
Yeah, okay.
This is the gaslighting.
They're just going to gaslight even further.
What is gaslighting, Pearl?
It's just going to.
And this is the other tactic that they do: they make you define every word to derail the conversation.
They can't have a normal conversation.
You know, as an adult, I just assume that you can understand basic English to some extent.
I just assume that, you know, me and you can have a conversation as adults.
We've spoken this language for 20 years.
And then what the feminists come in and do is say, define this, define that, define that.
And it's just to derail the conversation.
And then they crash out.
And they crash out.
But if you want to have a normal conversation, you're welcome to come back.
You know.
What's a normal conversation?
I can't believe as an adult we have to decide.
Normal conversation is what I tried.
What I tried to have with you, Kenzie.
You know, they can't take not being in control.
They can't take it.
Constant is not normal conversation.
I know, but it's how I wish conversation would go because women, we tend to be so insufferable to have conversations that we don't even, nobody ever calls us out on it.
There's the crash out.
There's the crash out.
All right.
I'll let you go a little bit, but please don't ask me any definitions because it's really just going to derail everything.
Snide remarks, I'll also mute you.
Just, you know, be nice.
You can do it.
I believe in you.
I don't know what I've said that you would consider is mean to you.
All right, gaslighting.
I didn't say mean.
Didn't say mean.
I just want you to stick to the topic: the men versus women's jobs.
You can do it.
Pearl, you said you could do it.
Go ahead, go ahead.
Why do you say go ahead and then mute me?
Well, because I just want you to talk normally.
And I just, you guys.
I am talking normally.
So the reason that I ask you to define words is because you're using them incorrectly.
Okay, then.
This is how women, this is another tactic.
This is another manipulation tactic.
So what women do is they change the definitions of words to confuse you.
I haven't even given a definition of anything.
How can I change the definition if I haven't given one?
That's gaslighting.
All right.
So can we stick to the male versus female jobs?
Patrol says, whoops, I did it again.
I don't know what that means, but thank you for that.
You're coping hard here, Pearl.
I don't know what the benefit of.
All right.
So we're going to go to the men versus women's jobs.
Men versus women's jobs.
Go ahead.
Go ahead with what?
Men versus women's jobs.
What does that mean?
All right.
So if men are going to talk about Pearl, if men make 80% of the world's stuff and 70% of the food supply, and women work less hours, why do they deserve equal pay?
Because there's labor that they do that is benefit to society.
Again, when we talk about like industries, I think we need to recognize that under capitalism, pay is not determined on necessity.
It's determined based on profit, which is why I was trying to highlight that teachers are a necessary person for society if we want an educated new generation of workers.
I would agree with you if they were doing a good job, but there's kids graduating.
I'm from Chicago and they're graduating in the city of Chicago and they can't read.
So the issue is because of capitalism because of underfunded schools and unpaid, underpaid teachers.
I know, but you're doing it again.
So every time women don't meet a burden of performance, so every time women don't do something well.
And I would say if a kid is graduating high school and they can't read, somebody in somebody in the administration, the teachers failed them.
And every time it's the women failing, you blame the system instead of the women.
It's never the women's fault.
Right, because if they don't have access to the appropriate resources, they have too high of class loads, then we don't give them the tools to perform with excellence.
Then, of course, we're not going to have good results.
Well, I don't know how many.
Imagine if I criticized how men build houses if we didn't give them hammers.
Well, I wouldn't say it's really the same.
I wouldn't say it's the same thing because now we have teachers and teachers' assistants.
You know, we don't.
Yeah.
Maybe in college.
No, it's pretty common in high schools now.
It's pretty common in the country for classrooms being having too many children in them, them being underfunded.
Yeah.
So again.
And being pushed through the system to graduate so that they can enter into capitalism to replace the labor force.
Right, but the majority of principals now are women.
So who's again?
And the majority of legislative governments are menu.
And that's really not true.
I mean, in the city of Chicago, hold on, let me look this up.
City of Chicago.
Chicago cost pays what per kid?
I can't remember.
Do you think the police perform well?
I don't have an opinion on that cost.
Well, how can you have an opinion that women are failing within their predominant industry of teaching, but not have an opinion of police, which is obviously a male-dominated industry?
A majority of crime is not solved.
Okay, the well, if it's not solved.
So is that men's underperformance?
If that's true, I would say yeah.
Great.
Then why is that not a critique?
Like if you're going to have these critiques that women underperform in their industry and men don't, I would think you would be aware of all industries.
I would say when men do underperform, I mean, there was riots about men's underperforming.
The world lets men know when they underperform.
It wasn't due to underperformance.
It was due to violence, to police brutality.
Like, come on.
That's true.
That's true.
But that's them not doing their job.
That's overperformance of anything.
Well, but the world lets men know when they're underperforming.
But when, you know, when, I don't want to mute you again, but if you keep cutting me off, I'm going to have to.
I do it.
I kind of do it.
But when men, when women underperform, it's always society's fault.
And what I'm asking, you know, I just want the same energy that you guys have for men for women.
You guys have no problems.
I'll tell you, you said...
You just blame it on gender rather than systems.
That's the difference.
Well, if our gender performed better, I wouldn't have to.
But you don't recognize that it's the system, not the individual.
I don't think it's the system.
I think it is the individual.
I know you don't because you don't read.
Okay, well, if you are what reading produces, then I guess I'll read more.
Yeah, education.
I mean, I know you got a grift, so you know, there's nothing wrong with it.
That was rude.
Now you get muted.
You know.
All right.
Chicago cost per cost per pupil?
I'm trying to remember the stat.
I've looked this up before.
Spending per student.
Yeah, they get $20,000 per student.
That's a lot in Chicago public schools.
And there are still students that can't read.
$20K.
My private school was less than half of that in high school.
We performed better than the public schools that had double the funding.
I don't think it's a funding issue.
I think it's a the challenge you get is where your private school teachers women?
Some of them, some not.
A majority?
No, actually, we had a mostly male administration.
I think it's either administration or teachers?
No, teachers.
I would say like it was about half and half.
No, you asked.
See, why you gotta see?
Well, I want to see if you're honest, and I don't think you are.
Well, you could look into it if you want, but sure.
This is why, like, the anecdote, like, I don't even know if what you're saying about your private school is true.
Okay, well, this is good faith versus bad faith.
You are very bad faith, Pearl.
All right, there she goes.
Don't you think $20,000 is a lot per student?
What would be enough money where, like, if they increased it where they would increase it to say $25,000 a student, would you then?
I have no idea.
Okay, but at what point, I'm asking at what point is it the women's fault for failing at a job?
Is it ever their fault?
You would need to show me causation, Pearl.
Oh, there we go.
There she goes.
There has been a 50% rise in spending for education between 2018 and 2022.
Academic.
Well, yeah, we also went through a pandemic and experienced inflation.
Okay, now it's the pandemic's fault that kids can't really.
Well, pandemic caused inflation, Pearl, it would make sense that.
Okay, there she goes.
Okay.
All right, so.
So I would say, sorry, this last one, I actually shouldn't have unmuted you.
That was my bad.
So this, I would say my main point, though, is that when men make a mistake, they are criticized.
Men are criticized all the time.
But when women make a mistake or fail at their job, it's just never their fault.
I just disagree.
Okay, other topics you're gonna go through.
What's your view on marriage?
Are you pro-marriage or anti-marriage or indifferent?
Do you think it's a good thing?
I mean, it depends how we're conceptualizing marriage here, but I know you don't want to talk definitions or what concepts are, so I'm not sure.
Do you think it's a good thing or a bad thing?
I mean, it's hard to know what you're asking me because, like, are we talking about marriage as like a legal contract with the state?
Are we talking marriage as a theological commitment?
Are we talking like what are we talking about marriage?
Sure.
Why don't we do the state marriage?
What do you think of that?
So I think there is benefit to entering in a contract with marriage, depending on what your goals are.
Obviously, there can be tax breaks, which can benefit you economically.
You can have access to your spouse's health care, which can also benefit you not only in health, but psychologically as well as economically.
And then also, you have more protections when it comes to the acquisition of capital during the union.
Okay, do you think it's a net positive overall?
Again, it would depend on the metrics.
Okay.
And it would be context-dependent.
Do you agree that as long as there's no abuse, that custody should be 50, ideally would be 50-50?
I think it should just be agreed based on what the parties can come up with.
Right, but off the bat, 50-50.
Well, if one parent doesn't want the child, no, I don't think they should be forced to.
If they don't want it, fine.
But I'm saying off the bat, 50-50.
If that's what the parental unit wants, then yes, I would think that would be great.
Okay.
So my opinion is that while there are some benefits, like the ones you listed, I don't think those are necessarily bad things.
I would say that it is a bad deal for men because they are more than likely going to lose custody of their kids if there's a divorce.
The average divorce is $20,000.
And there's very few benefits that outweigh that risk of losing.
So 90% of child custody is decided outside of court.
So if men are not having possession of their children, it's because they don't want it.
No, so that's often what feminists say.
But the challenge is a lot of men are advised not to fight for custody because they don't have the means.
If you're an average, and we talked about people that are living paycheck to paycheck or middle, lower class guys, they don't have 20K to spend fighting for custody.
And sometimes it's a lot of people.
I mean, if they have a lawyer, and sometimes it's a lot, just wait, you can go.
And sometimes it's a lot more than that.
So I would attribute that to men not wanting to.
And they also know that the majority of the time they're not going to win.
So a lot of lawyers, if they don't think their case is a sure thing, they advise them to fight against it.
So it's not feminists that say 90% of child custody cases are decided outside of court.
That's the American Bar Association.
Again, I'm saying a lot of.
I said the argument feminists said is that they don't want custody.
Go ahead.
Go ahead.
I'll let you go.
Because the decision is made outside of court, which means that both parties agree.
And if we can acknowledge that men have more access to capital than women do, I would say that men are more advantaged when it comes to having a lawyer.
Now, of the men that, of cases that are contested, about 4%, 4 or 6%, I want to say it's 6%.
6% go to mediation, and then only 4% are decided in front of a judge.
And of the 4% that is decided in front of a judge, men are awarded what they want 65% of the time.
Right.
But what I said was that in the beginning, so when the men, what happens is you schedule a consult with the lawyers.
And that's them.
Okay.
Wait.
Jesus, wait, wait.
So what happens in a lot of those meetings is that they are advised to not fight because the odds are just not in their favor.
So you could say they don't fight, but when a guy's making, you know, $42,000 a year as a logger, he doesn't have $20,000 to fight in court when a lot of the times he may be on child support.
He may be kicked out of his house.
Or, you know, and he's going through a deeply like emotional time.
So a lot of times they, yeah, they're advised to not do it.
I just don't see any evidence of that.
You can file a divorce without a lawyer.
You can file, but if you're going to take the case to court, you'll usually do a consult.
Right.
And so why would you take the case to court?
Okay.
So if you know your wife is going to fight you for custody of your kids, and you know if you spend $20,000, $30,000, $40,000, which is a lot of money, you'd agree, right?
Yeah.
So most men don't want to take their life savings for a 50-50 chance of custody.
Right, but you're just assuming that most women want to take custody from their exes.
Well, I would just say is not true.
All I can say.
Like it benefits women who are going to be single to share custody because then they have access to additional child care.
Yeah, you could say that, but the issue is a lot of child support is based on how much custody the woman has.
So it gives her an incentive to fight for more custody to get more money.
No, that's it is taking child support will pay you less than working a wage job.
Understand that they could move the numbers to maybe go like that.
But child support is child support is getting paid to do nothing.
Child support is getting okay.
We're going to wait.
We're going to wait.
You could do it.
You could do it.
So essentially, that would be my take is that generally speaking.
Men are advised to not fight for custody because the odds just are not in their favor.
When you look at alimony payments, 90% are men to women.
The majority of child support is men to women.
I understand you're probably going to try to minimize that in some way.
But the truth of the matter is the majority of the time, if there's child support or alimony in custody, women get all of it.
So go ahead.
So again, I would just argue that child support is a way to keep women in poverty.
Because if like it's interesting to me that you minimize women's care for children and just say they're doing nothing, they are providing care for children.
If a man had to outsource that to a daycare, he would be paying way more to the daycare center than he would to the other parent.
So that's why it's in men's benefits to just pay child support because they're getting a discount on daycare.
When it comes to alimony, again, a majority of men pay alimony because they have more access to capital.
And only 10% of divorces end in alimony.
So that's not the majority experience.
Right.
But even a 10% chance is more than I would personally want to take.
If I was a guy, I don't want to pay you.
I don't want to pay you.
If I was a guy, I would just would not even want a 10% chance of being on alimony.
I just, why would I take that extra risk?
Well, I would say alimony is a valid payment of essentially what you've invested in the relationship.
In order to get access to alimony, it has to be a long-term relationship unless it was decided within a prenup.
Now, if, let's just say to give you a hypothetical, if a housewife stayed home for 15 years and took care of children, and within that 15 years, her partner was able to climb the corporate ladder and get access to a high-earning salary.
How is she not entitled to the benefits of her labor?
That sounds to me like a lack of gratitude.
She was allowed to stay home for 15 years.
Most people do not get to do that.
So I would actually say thank you for allowing me to stay home and raise the kids and not be entitled to more.
That is labor.
But that is.
But see, most, I think that raising kids would be a privilege.
Most men would look at that as a privilege to be home and stay with their kids.
But for some reason, women feel entitled to it.
And, you know, again, it goes back to being an adult.
You don't have to have kids in this society, which is fine.
And if you make that choice, I think that you should be prepared to take the consequences of it.
And part of it is being out of the workforce for a little bit.
If you choose to do that, or you can do daycare.
That's another route you could do.
Right.
So now you've made contradictions within a lot of your statements.
How so?
Because if I'm telling you, because like if we look at a business and let's just say that there was a partnership in a business and that one person was not taking a salary, but they were doing all the administrative work within the business, but they were partners 50-50.
Don't you think then that they're both entitled to the profits of that business?
No, I don't.
I don't think administration is as important as running a company.
I don't well, that's what CEOs do is administrative work.
No, it's not.
Yeah, it is.
I mean, if we're.
Oh, that's true.
Sorry, that is just not true.
Okay, so I would say that the woman got free rent, free food, and free ability to live.
It's not free, Pearl.
Does taking care of children have economic value?
It has value for your kids.
What is it?
Does it have economic value?
Oh, my gosh.
You get free rent, free food, and you can do hobbies in your free time.
You know, what is it?
Like, it's just a lack of gratitude.
Men who are a wage earner and women who stay home, typically men have more leisure time.
Well, they can make a study that says anything these days.
Well, that's the Labor Bureau of Statistics.
Well, again, they can make a study that says anything.
I mean, you're.
I'm sorry.
I'm just going to say, you're just going to talk out of your ass.
And then when I get a study, oh, they can just say anything.
Well, I would just say I kind of look at tendencies of men and women.
And men tend to, women tend to over-exaggerate what they do, and men tend to under-exaggerate.
Based on what?
My eyes, experience, my ears, this conversation.
Yeah, it's just your bias, Pearl.
You just value men's labor and you don't value women's labor.
And that's due to misogyny.
I would say it's due to women's output, which is less than men's.
Do you want women to have children?
Not if they don't want children.
Do you want women to have children?
Is that something you want to see within society?
I want women.
I want women that want to have children to have children and women that don't want to have children to make children.
Me too.
Yeah, I agree.
Me too.
So you think it is essential within society to have children, correct?
The challenge now is we have an older welfare state.
So they don't really know how people are going to pay for these old people.
But I don't think that's young people's problem, to be honest.
Well, if we don't have children, we can't replace the workforce, right?
That is going to be a problem, but I still on an individual level would say that women that want children, I would encourage them to have them.
If they don't, then I wouldn't.
I have seen some pretty bad moms in my day.
Sure, sure.
So I'm just, so this is again the issue that I have when we don't talk about oughts.
Because if we're going to say like how society ought to be structured and what the best function is, then we need to recognize that things are essential.
You do say the ought that it is essential that we have housing and bravo men for making housing.
But you don't recognize that it's essential that we provide care to people, elderly, health care, and children, and that women shoulder the burden, majority of these things.
You minimize that effect and label it as it should be a labor of love.
Who cares that you're not paid, but men are paid for their labor?
I would say that men are underpaid for their labor and women are overpaid.
And the reason, yeah, so the reason I think this is just okay, wait, wait, you can wait, you can wait.
So the reason I think this is because men make 80% of the world's stuff, 70% of the food supply, while there is other stuff that is important in society, that is the most important because none of the other industries would exist without them.
There's no, there's, well, wait.
This is not an ought statement.
This is an is because men are currently making all of our stuff and our food supply.
That's not ought, that is.
And I would say that is more useful than the jobs that we listed because society would fall apart without it.
I forgot the last thing you said.
I forgot.
I think you had one more statement I was going to respond to, but I forgot.
What makes people?
That's, you need an egg and a sperm, as you said earlier.
So I would say men and women make that's what you need in order to create conception, but in order to actually create a person, there has to be reproductive labor, right?
Yeah, you can't have without sperm.
And women are not doing a good job doing that, if we're going to be honest.
Women are not having kids.
So I don't.
Why are women not?
Wait, I'm answering.
I'm answering it.
There you go.
So I would say that women aren't having kids.
So we're not really doing that.
In terms of raising kids, I would say that the majority of neglect and child abuse is done by women.
Single father homes have similar outcomes to two-parent homes, where single mother homes create criminals and a lot of the world's problems.
So if women were better at raising kids, I would say that, but we're just not doing too good of a job.
Oh, sorry.
Why don't women want to have kids?
I forgot you asked me that.
I don't know.
It's not really my business.
I mean, there's a plethora of reasons.
Go ahead.
So the statistic you cited that single mothers are producing criminals is incorrect.
And perceive pearl if you're not.
What percent?
No, because we're not going to.
What percent of criminals come from single mother homes?
I think it's like 90%.
I want to double check.
Adolescents.
70% of juveniles come from single mother homes.
20 times the average.
It's single parents, not single mother.
No, single father homes produce similar outcomes.
No, the source comes from the Justice Department.
It was a source released in the 90s that talked about juvenile delinquents.
And I think it was something like actually 60%, not 70.
60% came from single parent homes.
Which are majority-50 that came from single mother and single-father.
No, single-father homes have similar outcomes.
What's the source?
I'll get it for you in a second.
Single father homes.
All right, let me.
I mean, even if I just go to AI, it says you're wrong.
Well.
See, this is why I feel that sources are necessary because you just talk out of your ass.
I do not talk out of my ass, but hold on.
I'll get it for you.
Just give me a second.
It's like, please, hold on one second.
Give me one second.
So the other thing, I'll bring it.
Just give me a second.
They're getting it for me.
All right.
So.
The other thing I was going to go on.
Let me unmute you.
Gender roles.
What do you think about it?
I was actually going to ask you this as a feminist.
What do you think about the lack of men's shelters in the United States, even though men are 70% of the homeless?
Would you be for pushing more men's shelters?
I think when we look at shelters, we're talking primarily about DV shelters because men do have access to shelters when it comes to being unhoused.
Sorry, say that one more time.
I think when we're talking about shelters that are gendered, those are DV shelters.
Yes.
Because when men are unhoused, they do have access to shelters.
But DV shelters are specifically geared towards women because women are more likely to die in DV situations.
Okay, but would you be for equal 50-50 women having the men having domestic violence shelters too?
Because still one of them.
I just don't think there's a need for men because if men experience domestic violence, they aren't unalived by it.
That's why women need domestic violence shelters.
Yeah, but you don't think they still should have support?
No?
I'm saying there's no utility in it.
I think they should obviously have support.
But again, I think shelters are like an effect of capitalism because we manufacture scarcity when it comes to housing.
Okay.
What about gender roles?
What do you think of that?
In what capacity?
That was one of the topics you brought up.
So I was curious what your thoughts are.
Right.
In what capacity do you want to talk about it?
That was one of the topics you brought up.
So you were the one who wanted to talk about it.
So the floor is yours.
I'm sorry, what'd you say?
the floor is yours you said I don't know what you want to talk about in terms of gender roles That was one of the topics you brought up.
Okay.
I think gender roles ultimately don't serve any utility at uphold patriarchy.
Say that one more time.
I ultimately think that typically gender roles do not serve utility and uphold patriarchy.
Okay.
Can you tell me what that means in like layman's terms?
So if I do the dishes, that upholds.
I don't think there's a function for gender roles.
Okay.
And I think they uphold male supremacy and domination.
By like doing the dishes or what?
So if we're going to talk about labor within the households, we can view like feminized labor is typically labor that is daily and requires more time investment, like doing the dishes, doing the laundry, grocery shopping, meal planning.
Those are constant tasks and require a lot of investment.
Where if we look at tasks that are more masculized, this is like repairs around the house, car repair, and lawn care, which is sporadic and seasonal.
So women have more obligation when it comes to the labor provided within the home.
Yeah, I think that lawn care is harder than doing the dishes, and they kind of automate a lot of.
Okay, well, I would say it's easier to do the dishwasher, personally.
They've automated a lot of our stuff with Roombas.
I think it's kind of silly to say that it upholds patriarchy.
So that would be my two cents.
Well, that's just one aspect of it.
But yes, it puts women to providing more labor than men within the domestic households, which is one of the benefits and reasons I think men want to get married is because they have access to a domestic slave.
Sorry.
God, why do you think so little of men?
That's just a crazy thing to say.
Because I'm not impressed by men.
What do you mean?
No, it's just.
I don't know why I would think highly of my oppressor.
Like, did something happen to you?
Like, what?
Like, what did men do?
I don't know.
Did something happen to you, Pearl?
Where you're up their ass?
No, it's just, you just have such a vitriol towards men, and I don't really get it.
Because it's just kind of.
Would you say that it's valid for Jewish people to have vitriol to Nazis?
You think that men are the equivalent of Nazis?
I'm asking you, is that a yes or a no?
I want to ask, do you think men are the equivalent of Nazis?
Oh, my God.
Oh, one second.
Answer my question.
Sorry, I just think it's a stupid question.
Well, answer it.
I don't have to.
Then I'm not going to answer yours.
What's the point?
All right.
Why is it a stupid question?
Oh, my God.
It just never ends.
Well, Pearl, if you're going to say things, I don't know.
Alright, um, oh my gosh.
I'm going to get you guys the stat.
Give me a second.
Give me a second.
I just, sorry, the...
The equivalent of men to Hitler is just.
I would not say, I would say that's a false equivalency.
I don't really think that's the same.
How is it a false equivalency?
Oh, my God.
This is what they do.
They just ask you to do.
All right.
Oh
It's interesting.
You think men should get married when you compare them to Hitler?
Sorry.
Still waiting on the false equivalency.
Would you like me to clarify?
Sure, go ahead.
Would you say that Nazis were oppressors?
All right, I'm gonna.
Yeah, probably.
Probably, okay.
Would you say that Jewish people were the oppressed?
Probably.
Okay.
So that's the analogy that I'm making.
Yeah, I think is that men are the oppressors and women are the oppressed.
What?
So if in one case it's okay for the oppressed, for the oppressed persons to have vitriol towards the people that are oppressing them, why is it okay in one context and not in another?
What more do you want men to do for you?
Stop oppressing us.
Okay, so how are they like, just can we do day-to-day examples?
So if I wake up, how am I oppressed by men?
Like this, we went over this within the intro to your show.
Okay.
Sexual violence is gender-based violence towards women.
You name any system under capitalism.
There are disproportionate outcomes for women.
Okay, but whether that's the job market, whether that is housing, whether that is healthcare.
Is there anything stopping me from going to the police if I get assaulted?
Yeah.
Okay.
Your safety, your safety number one.
And number two, I'm sorry, I don't know why I went out of this.
What would stop it?
Your safety, as well as the outside.
Wait, wait, no, no, no.
I need to break it down.
How am I not safe by going to the police and reporting a crime?
Because if they don't arrest your assailant, your assailant can harm you again because you've pissed them off.
Even if they go, like, let's say it's a domestic violence situation, and let's say the police go and arrest him.
He makes bail.
He can go back to your house and now you've just pissed him off.
Okay.
Let's say that they come to the house and they don't arrest him.
Okay.
Now you've also pissed him off.
Okay.
But they also could arrest him too if you have the evidence, right?
Okay.
Right, but I also said he can be, he could be processed and then he could be bailed out and he would still.
What is stopping me from studying STEM and going into STEM?
There's nothing stopping you from studying it.
If we're going to talk about women's upward mobility in male-dominated industries, I think that is the big issue is that women are not often promoted or find any progression within their careers when they are male-dominated because men would rather hire men.
Right.
But why do you equate that to the hiring process and not the output of work?
What do you mean?
They're already hired.
Like why?
They just don't experience any upward mobility, even if they are more competent and capable, because men would rather hire other men.
Right.
But I'm saying, why do you assume it's because they want to hire other men and not because men do a better job?
I mean, women work less hours on average.
So, I mean, if you do.
It depends on your familial status.
Okay, but typically men and women are working the same amount of paid hours, especially if they're both single.