Hannah Pearl Davis critiques modern marriage, arguing women over 25 rarely remain virgins by her definition—excluding oral/hand sex—and that only ~5% fit the ideal, often using virginity as clout or lying about it. She cites 74% of divorces initiated by women, $200K+ legal fees, and shifting priorities (e.g., 78% prefer homeownership before kids) to explain men’s frustration, comparing past dowry/bride-price systems to today’s "six-month free trial" mentality. Panelists like Sean and Doug dismiss virginity as a reliable predictor of commitment, calling it a bargaining chip or sign of repression, while historical examples (e.g., rural China’s $20K bride prices) highlight marriage’s economic roots over romanticism. Ultimately, the episode frames virginity as an outdated expectation in a society where women’s priorities and legal risks leave men at a disadvantage, questioning whether traditional values still hold weight in modern relationships. [Automatically generated summary]
So there's this clip going viral online of a dozen women being asked the following question.
Do we need men?
Most answered very quickly, no, because men are useless.
I mean, this headline from The Hill, it caught my eye.
Most young men are single.
Most young women are not.
Young men have fallen faster than any demographic in America over the last 40 years.
It's a different world now.
Like we don't need men the way that they used to.
The future is female.
Men and women are drifting further apart, and society is crumbling because of it.
A fascinating debate has broken out about the value of marriage.
You've kind of got the Trad Con versus Red Pill thing.
This men's rights crowd that sometimes just goes too far the other way.
Oh, you need to stop acting like grown boys and infants and actually become men.
Marriage is a bond and it's a sacred bond.
It's a machine designed to extract resources from you.
Now many of the red-pilled have taken the position that it's bad for men to get married.
Hannah Pearl Davis, or just pearly things.
One of the most controversial faces in all of the internet.
She goes on to say that marriage is a terrible deal for men.
Because if me and you were in a business contract, you would never sign a contract where I am paid to leave.
Gee, what could go wrong there?
74% or something of divorces are initiated by women.
Men have everything to lose, primarily their own children.
Men get killed by the courts and by divorce laws.
I had no idea that courts of family law were courts of equity, not courts of law.
Because in family court, you don't need evidence to accuse someone of abuse.
You need no evidence.
When you guys say get married young, a lot of these men don't know what they're signing up for, and you're not going to be there when their entire life falls apart.
I interviewed them on the other side.
I didn't meet my son until he was 15 months old.
How much did you spend trying to get him back?
So legal fees alone was about 200,000.
Before you know it, you're homeless.
You're literally just thrown out onto the street.
We absolutely reinforce bad behavior from women.
Wives are taught to leave their husbands and then daughters grow up without their fathers.
Family is the foundation of society.
Every problem in society comes from single mother homes.
A lot of women will just chase this negative rabbit hole of happiness, endless happiness.
Feminism's biggest failures is it lies to women.
We tell women to date as many guys as possible.
We tell them to put off family into marriage.
You are allowed to leave your perfect husband.
You are allowed to end a relationship with a really great boyfriend.
Oh, free shreds, have an abortion.
What?
You're evil.
I don't think there's anything else in life that we actually ever go into preparing to fail.
Like if you have the mentality of this is going to go wrong and be pessimistic, naturally the outcome is going to be that it's going to fail anyway.
It's self-sabotage.
And that's the thing.
Like women are so willing to leave marriages because they're not happy.
This is not about happiness.
The most important thing is the children.
And the problem is we have a modern society where it's me, me, me, my feelings, leave when I feel like it instead of doing what's best for the kids.
This myth that we live in an age of male privilege.
Where's my male privilege?
They think, well, men have all the rights.
They have all the power.
Privilege patriarchal system that we have.
Why doesn't our society care about men's rights?
I have no friends, no wife, and no social life.
Men are alone in this situation.
Men are homeless.
Men are thinking about eating guns.
I've seen so many men on the brink of suicide and they didn't do anything wrong.
How are you equal if the men are the ones that have to fight and die to defend the country?
The men are the ones that build and maintain all the infrastructure.
Women are helplessly dependent upon men.
The so-called deaths of despair from suicide, overdose, to alcohol, three times higher among men than among women.
Culture is telling men, you are no good.
You got to get your act together.
I think men have failed themselves.
What kind of a man are you?
What kind of a woman are you going to attract?
If men are in trouble, so are women.
Everybody knows this is a huge problem, but nobody wants to admit it.
Every single woman at the table said they wanted a man.
500K, 500, 500K, 300K, 200K.
Am I crazy?
Everything is really set up against you to fail as a man.
If men make less than women, women don't want to marry them.
So, you know who wants more economically and emotionally viable men?
Women.
I don't want to be an independent woman anymore.
I don't want to be a strong, independent woman.
I'm over it.
When is it going to be my turn?
Where are we meeting the men that don't stop?
I can't keep having these same conversations.
The only simp here is you, Pearl.
You simply.
I think you simp for women.
She's a provocateur.
She says stupid stuff, but Pearl is right about this.
It's already happening.
It's just not out in the open yet.
Now it's just hookup culture is going to be our fairy tale ending because men don't want a wife and women can't find a husband.
The future, if everybody follows your path, is there is no future.
If you go into population decline and our economy goes into decline, civilization will crumble.
The American story does not end well.
This is an existential crisis, failing young men.
What is up, everybody?
How are you?
Welcome to another episode of Pearl Daily here at the Audacity Network.
Thank you guys so much for tuning in.
So the first thing we're going to do today is we are going to thank the awesome, talented, amazing men that donated to our divorce documentary fundraiser.
So as you guys know, my mission when I came into this space was I just wanted to have a divorce documentary.
That's all I wanted to do.
And unfortunately, they demonetized me for a year and a half.
They completely slandered my name.
They put me on a government watch list.
And it made it pretty difficult to finish the divorce documentary.
So now we're asking for donations.
So if you guys can, the link is in the description.
Terry, thank you for the $25 donation.
Sunit, thank you for the donation.
Anonymous, 50 bucks.
And Sonyell, 25.
If you guys donate during the show, I will read it at the end.
Also, if you want to learn how to be a YouTuber, go to pearlinvite.com and apply.
And you can be a part of our weekly classes that we do.
We're not going to do the classes today because I just have a lot to say on this topic.
So I think we're going to do it probably not tomorrow.
Tomorrow we're doing a panel show.
Thursday.
Thursday, we're going to do our how to be a YouTuber class where every week I go through my analytics and you guys can learn too.
So thank you for sitting with me through this sales pitch.
All right.
So today we're talking about virgin women.
So last show, I did a reaction to a video and I said, men say they want virgin women until they see the virgin women available.
I said, men, they constantly gaslight the same way women gaslight us about what we find attractive.
Sometimes men do the exact same thing to us.
Now, remember, in girl world, we only care about what attractive men think.
Now, I'm not saying this is right.
I'm not saying this is a good thing, but we have a new series on this channel and it's called It Is What It Is.
So this is a segment on Pearl Daily where I talk about the way the world is not the way I want it to be, not the way I wish it was.
You know, I had a friend of mine say that should is the worst word in the human language because it's just a wish list.
And I realized that I myself, as a YouTuber, I use this term just a lot.
And I actually almost got embarrassed thinking about it after I came to this realization.
You know, when you're a YouTuber and you talk for a living, you're forced to deal with uncomfortable truths about yourself because if you don't notice them, the world notices them for you.
So, one of them that I learned was that when I was younger, I was very idealistic and unrealistic.
And so, I would say things like, shouldn't vote, you know, I can't say that anymore.
Or women should be in the kitchen, women should make a sandwich.
And these things are funny, right?
They're hilarious.
I'm always trying to put on an entertaining show for you guys, but it's not realistic, right?
It's not, this isn't, um, this isn't something that is a realistic point of view.
And I think that's where a lot of liberals are born.
That's where a lot of liberals look at us conservatives and they're saying, What world do you guys live in?
You guys are insane.
Are you not seeing what's going on?
And I'm not saying the liberals are right either.
The liberal men, I mean, we see the way that they simp to no end.
They really do.
They're like the they're like the incredibles, you know, that show, but just in simping.
But in a way, conservatives simp harder.
Now, I'm going to talk about this topic, and you guys are going to be able to call in.
But there was one comment that actually sparked this whole show.
And I can't, I forgot to put the name of the person who said it, but maybe Doug MPA, you can find the comment and put in the chat.
But I copied and pasted their comment.
And I did this because I really thought to myself, I understand why he thinks this.
I really do.
It probably does seem contradictory.
So my take is that female virgins have something wrong with them more times than they don't.
Now, I'd like to differentiate female virgins below a certain age, you could argue, maybe they don't.
But I don't think virginity is this bonding construct the way that it used to be.
I think at one point, maybe so.
But the virgins of today are just not the virgins of yesterday.
And the reason I came to this conclusion was real life experience.
You know, you see the stats about body count, right?
And you think to yourself, well, that's obviously the women with the higher body counts are the whores.
And that's true.
There is truth to that.
I'm not saying it's not.
But I like to have more nuanced conversations on this channel.
So during the last show, I reacted to a clip of a woman named Riley who went on a dating show.
And she was a socially awkward woman.
Not the most attractive, maybe like a five or a four.
She went on this dating show and she pitched herself to 20 guys and she was rejected.
And listening to her talk, I don't think I would be shocked if she was a virgin.
I really wouldn't.
I don't know if she is or she isn't, but she fit one of the archetypes of virgins I've seen on the market.
So the comment, so during this show, I titled it, Men Say They Want Virgins Until It Comes Down to Picking Them.
So the comment said Pearl went from women should be virgin and young to no, you don't want a virgin.
Seriously, Pearl isn't consistent at all.
She's insecure about her situation about not being a virgin and aging and couldn't live up to the standards she originally argued about.
And now is trying to convince people that no, you don't want a virgin.
Subconsciously, she comes across as jealous that everyone gets married first, regardless of if they're a virgin or not.
And I look, you know, I do read the comments.
So I looked at this comment and I said, I can understand why he thinks that.
But I want to pitch to you guys my ideas.
I want you to have an open mind.
And at the end, you could tell me if you agree or disagree, we could do a call-in show.
Now, I'm not saying I am the end-all-be-all, but all I am repeating back is what I have seen on the market.
So the first definition I think is really important: what is a virgin woman?
Now, you would think, you really would think that this would be something that we all disagree on, right?
You would think that we would know, like a virgin's a girl that never had sex, right?
That's what you would think.
That's what, that's what, that's what you would think.
All right, now share the screen.
So the definition of a virgin is a person who has never had sexual intercourse.
That's the one.
Number two is an unmarried woman devoted to religion.
So women are sneaking in.
They're sneaking in another definition.
They're sneaking in another definition into Webster.
Can you imagine?
That's how women manipulate is we have a tendency to change the definition of words.
Three, an absolutely chaste young woman or for Virgin Mary.
So I prefer definition three.
So for the purpose of this conversation, I would say a virgin woman is a woman that has never done anything that could give her an STD.
BJs, that can give you an STD.
Getting finger blasted, hand jobs, that can give you an STD.
Soaking, I'm pretty sure that can give you an STD.
So all of the workarounds here at Pearl Daily, we do not count those hoes.
Just because you found a way to get off without Hoe doesn't mean you're better than the other hoes.
I put you in the same category.
I really do.
So, all right.
Now, the next question I had is: do women want to be virgins on their wedding day?
So, conservative men have a tendency to have this idea that women want to wait till they're married.
And they're just falling victim to these evil men who just take their virginity.
But if we look at what women are choosing, it does not look like women have any intention or want to do this.
So let me share my screen.
Also make sure you guys like the video.
All right, hit that like button, subscribe to the channel.
I hit, you know, okay, now they're saying this is a bad take because sharing a drink can give you an STD.
All right, guys, within reason, right?
I think if you could get off of yuki orgasm from a man, if you can, if that can happen, if he's causing it, look at, I just don't, I just don't, I don't think you're that innocent, okay?
I don't.
I don't.
And I am tired of being gaslit about this.
Obviously, obviously, like, what was the point of that comment?
That was just a stupid comment.
I hate it when people know what you're saying, but they force you, they force you to give a more detailed explanation.
That's annoying.
I just want you to know in the chat, whoever put that, you're annoying.
That's an annoying thing to do.
All right, so putting things in order, relationship sequencing, the preferences of American women.
In America today, 70% of people cohabitate before marriage and 90% of people have sex before they marry.
Moreover, 40% of kids are born to unmarried mothers.
It's easy to assume these trends are driven entirely by shifts in values and attitudes like the sexual revolution or the deinstitutionalization of marriage.
But there's an alternative thesis as well.
Maybe the family breakdown has grown because people don't desire conventional sequencing of marriage and childbearing, but because there are obstacles to this outcome.
So remember, they always want to take the blame away from women.
Okay, they always want to do this.
They always want to say it's not because women want to do it.
They're brainwashed.
They're like, come on, guys.
The prevalence of damaging penalties that discourage marriage for working class people could be prevented from many achieving family lives they want.
And indeed, family dissolution, marriage penalties are a major concern of working class parents.
All right, number one.
Wait, hold on.
All right, to explore the question of why the sequencing, can I zoom in on this?
I don't know if I can.
To explore the question of why the sequencing of family events has changed, I fielded a survey about 3,000 women age 18 to 44.
And the survey was another wave of long-running surveys called the Demographic Intelligence of Family Survey, which pulls American women about their family attitudes, fertility preferences, and lifestyle twice a year to provide market research for companies that make products for children and moms, hence why it only surveyed women.
I assessed sequencing in a straightforward way.
I asked women to arrange six relationship stages based on what they thought would be the best order for them personally.
The stages were getting married, moving in together, having a child, buying a house, meeting each other's families, and having sex.
By forcing respondents to put these stages in order, I directly measured women's views of what they would personally prefer for their own relationships.
In other words, I measured the extent to which high rates of cohabitation and premarital sex reflect explicit value differences.
All right, so women put the order women want relationships to happen.
They want to meet the family, they want to have sex, move in together, then get married and buy a house and have a child.
Contrary to popular Hollywood-driven narratives that frame meeting the family is a huge relationship step that people want to postpone, women overwhelmingly selected meeting each other's families as their first preferred step out of the six.
Now, to me, that's just to signal status.
Like women love signaling status to the family.
On average, meeting the family was selected was the second listed item.
While this may seem counterintuitive, it's very straightforward.
Many women say they prefer to be in the relationship with someone who already knows their life and background, not a stranger.
Otherwise, other, now remember, women are gaslighting here because if that were true, then we would be meeting in our hometowns and not on Hinge.
Okay.
Otherwise, women may explicitly desire familiar approval for partners.
Furthermore, it's important to remember the question asked women about what would be best, not typical.
If women knew up front that their potential partner was their best partner, they might move in faster on meeting families.
Okay.
My point isn't 78% of women in this survey picked an onboarding that prelates homeownership before children.
40 to 50% of newborns are born to renters.
Okay.
The survey also asked women if housing costs has in okay.
I don't really care.
I really wanted to just put women want to marry before kids, but they definitely want the sex before marriage, the majority of women.
Sex at the first relationship stage.
And if we look at what women are picking, right?
Women aren't really picking to wait until they're married.
We're really not, you know, I mean, it's just not something that we personally are choosing.
Okay, let me check the chat really quick.
So I really want to just kill this idea that women want to wait till we're married.
If we wanted to, we would.
You know, we would be rushing to get with all the guys that are offering commitment.
There's a ton of them.
But we're not.
Okay, so the next question I had, how many virgin brides are there?
And what are your chances of finding one?
All right.
So less than 5% of women are virgins.
And that's what Grok told me.
So let's assume, because women are liars, not all, not all, not all, that 2.5%, let's say half are lying.
So out of 100 women, you are going to meet 2.5% that are virgins.
And actually, now, what percent have given a hand job or a blow?
You know, we'll include that with the lying, even though I guarantee half of them will have been finger blasted.
I'm just going to give it.
What percent are ugly?
What percent are fat?
Let's divide that in two.
I'm going to just subtract half a percent.
Let's say we're at, even though it's really higher, I'm just for shits and giggles going to say 2%.
What percent are bitches?
Let's 1.5%, let's say.
Now we're dealing with left.
What percent?
What percent are using their virginity to build their brand or have a lot of debt?
Let's just, now let's say it's one out of 100 women.
Now, you said, you guys keep saying, Pearl, you're contradicting yourself.
Now, you said women should be virgins.
And that's where I really wanted to talk about how the marriage contract has changed over time.
Okay.
Men and women have conflicting sexual strategies.
Women want men to not know how valuable they are.
So they give up their leverage the rest of their lives and be loyal to them and give them, like the goal of women is to tame the alpha, right?
Let's say.
And the goal of men is to have, maybe have a wife, but bang hot women forever.
And before in the old days, it was a compromise, right?
They would meet in their hometown.
Maybe the families would get together.
A lot of time, the woman would come with a dowry, right?
So they would actually be like, hey, son, this girl, my daughter's a hassle.
She's really annoying.
Here's some money to deal with her annoyingness forever.
Here you go.
And so before the women would say, you know what?
I really could do better than you.
I really could.
Like, I'm pretty hot, but you're good enough, and I'm going to settle, and we're going to make a deal here.
This is going to be a compromise for both of us.
And the man would say, look, I could bang some hot chicks.
I could.
I could bang Stacey and Teresa over there, but you know what?
I'm going to compromise here and we're going to get together.
And he's like, you know what?
You didn't have sex with anybody else.
Or if you did lie, I'm sure women have always lied.
If you had a whole phase, you ended it at like 20.
So let's compromise here.
You can give me like 10 kids.
A lot of times they'd work on the farm, you know.
But now what happens is the women have completely foregoed, forgone their side of the mating strategy.
The women have foregone.
They have said, you know what?
We're not going to bring youth.
We're not going to bring purity to the table.
But I still demand a traditional marriage.
I still demand to stay home.
I still demand to be a stay-at-home mother to like one kid.
It's like one kid, you can't get a part-time job.
Do you know what I mean?
It's like, so I think in my old content, I maybe I wish I differentiated more.
When I said should, my what I was trying to say is in the old days when it was a fair deal for men, women used to bring purity and youth.
That's the original marriage contract.
But now women are not bringing purity.
And not only, at least, women used to be able to lie about purity.
Now there's like a digital footprint on the internet.
I mean, Sophia Rain is saying she's a virgin.
I could even add that.
What percent of these virgins have OnlyFans, right?
All right.
So this is not meant to discourage women that wish to do that.
And the comment, the comment really grinded my gears a little bit because I was like, it said, Pearl, you're jealous.
And I think I could see that, right?
But virgins aren't really the ones that are stealing the men.
I got to be honest here.
They're not.
Most virgin women don't have crazy outcomes.
Like usually they're with kind of dorky guys that most women don't want to be with.
Now, I'm kind of a dork too.
This is not to hate on the dorks, right?
But it's kind of to say it is what it is.
That's not who women in mass are picking, right?
It's more the Chads that women are going for.
So what we used to have was marriage, the way it was, was originally supposed to be an equal exchange, somewhat, because women are not bringing purity and youth to the table.
Women, we have to offer six-month free trials.
Now, because women don't, you know, the purity and the youth isn't brought to the table.
The women are like, look, I guess I'm going to have to be a nice person and offer a six-month free trial and hope he stays.
That's 2025, baby.
Enjoy the decline.
Sex used to be the primary way a woman reciprocated effort in dating and courting with a man.
And so, what we have now is the mystery method says, you know, men used to date for three months and then commit to women forever.
And to be honest, fellas, I don't think you should envy the men of the past.
I mean, this was kind of a terrible deal in a way for you guys.
I actually think you guys, in a way, have it better because before you had you could be saddled with a bitch and you had to stay with her.
Now you can try a six-month free trial, see how she is.
She'll obviously switch up after marriage, but you know, maybe if you have a pretty good vetting system, you can see if she's not right.
All right.
So the mystery method says you need to spend eight hours with a girl.
And I'm hearing reports from the field that it's taking less than that, like three hours to smash.
So what used to be full-on courting, dedicating for life in exchange for the Pooh Nanny, now you can get in three hours.
Do you know what I mean?
It's like, this is the times.
There is no guarantee if she says she was a virgin that that's even true.
Saving your virginity until your wedding night still runs the risk of the woman divorcing you five to seven years later.
And you get to miss out on the best sex.
The pre-marriage, ask any married guy, was the sex better before marriage or after marriage.
And the church, the trad cons, they convince the men.
They're like, miss out on the best sex ever.
And taking your kids and half of what you have.
So what does a woman saving herself for marriage or even a guy taking a woman's virginity mean anymore?
It really doesn't mean anything.
Now, this isn't what I want to be true, right?
This isn't what I wish to be true.
But I've seen too many virgin wives take their men to the divorce cleaners, or I've seen too many of the women I knew that lost their virginities.
I mean, and I'm going to divide into how women tend to lose their virginities and the typical, um, the typical scenarios that I would see.
Um, but it doesn't mean as much now.
So I do think women should be virgins in the original marriage contract, but unfortunately, we don't have that anymore.
And the men are sitting on the menu, right?
And they're saying, Okay, they're like ordering.
Imagine you're at a restaurant.
You're like, I want, um, okay, can I have an in-shape woman?
And they're like, no.
Can I have a woman without debt?
And they're like, yeah, but it's going to cost you this much.
And they're like, oh, that's expensive.
I don't know if I can afford that.
And they're like, what, what virgins?
Just can I see the virgins you have on the menu?
And they come up and they're like, here's a virgin woman that's built her brand off of being a virgin.
So she touts about it online and at church and uses it for clout.
And it's going to be a big deal when you guys get together and everyone's going to know the status of her virginity.
And the guy's like, oh, I don't know about that.
And then the next one is like, here's a virgin, but she's fat.
And then he talks to her.
He's like, can you get on like a workout plan maybe?
And they're like, no.
And they're like, okay.
And then you get the next virgin and it's a hot 18-year-old.
And then, you know, the guy's like, oh, I'll take that one.
And maybe it's not too much.
Like, she does lose her virginity to him.
And this was a common scenario I saw.
Maybe they'll date for a year.
But, you know, then the streets start calling and she gets invited to raves, hang out with celebrities.
And guess who's getting left in the dust?
You are, fellas.
So you do get that virginity for a little bit.
And that's, that was a common scenario.
That's what I see with the seven pluses of virgin women.
Like when I was younger, they would lose their virginity to a guy they would date for a few years, and they could have the marriage outcome with him, but then they would get too much opportunity in college.
They'd say, See ya, you know, it is what it is.
Um, and this is, I think people get agitated with me because sometimes I switch back and forth between what should be and what is.
And I've really tried to evolve my content to talk about what is and not what should be.
Because I realize talking about what should be is a waste of time.
Like, women shouldn't vote, but who cares?
That we're always gonna.
Like, what that's gonna go away in my lifetime.
Yeah, okay.
I'm just kidding, YouTube.
That was an example.
That was an example.
I don't mean it.
I don't mean it.
Keep my monetization, please.
Please, God, you know, it's like, um, okay.
Um, and the virgin women, then the men order again and they get a virgin woman, but she's 28 and she's been finger blasted like 20 times.
And they're like, Let me get this straight.
I have to wait for marriage for someone who got finger blasted by 20 guys, or she's blue, like two men.
Is this even a virgin?
And the waiter's like, No, we're selling virginity.
No, that's a vert that counts.
Change the dictionary, change the dictionary definition, change it right now.
We need to sell this for $10.99, you know.
And the men are like, that's not really right.
And then they'll order again, right?
And I'm just listing the virgins I've seen over the years.
Okay.
Then you get the virgin wife, but she's a bitch, right?
She's naggy.
She's she's, you know, she's kind of useless, kind of idiotic, right?
And I'm not, and then occasionally, occasionally, you do get a very nice, sweet, feminine virgin woman for now.
For now, because that's until she gets into the wrong friend group, she starts watching the wrong social media, she gets invited to the wrong party, cooked, cooked.
And what I, what I get irritated with is I get the men that married virgins that can't verify it.
Um, so they don't even know for sure, but they're over a certain age.
You know, the virgin women of yesterday are not the virgin women of today.
I'm sorry, they're not.
They are not.
They are not.
Um, so yeah, should women be virgins?
Yeah, but they're not, and you have zero control over it, so it is what it is.
It is what it is.
That's what's on the menu.
What's on the menu is whores.
And what keeps happening is we keep trying to, men keep trying to make whores.
Men keep trying to make they keep attempting to make whores, which is women's like natural state into they men cannot compute.
They cannot compute with the fact that all women have the proclivity and to some extent want to be whores.
Now, a woman may not do it because it's not in her best interests, right?
A woman might not do it because her reputation she wants to keep intact.
That's a fair reason.
She knows that if she's too much of a whore, she won't get married, but that's all off the table.
Women have OnlyFans and are getting married.
Women are corn stars and they're getting married.
Women can be 50 and get married.
I mean, guys, that's gone.
That is gone.
So in the past, women had incentives to keep them virgins, but it wasn't like women didn't want to be.
I mean, guys, women fought 100 years of nagging.
They nagged men for 100 years.
to be whores.
They could have nagged men.
They could have nagged men for anything.
It probably would have happened.
They could have said, men, we want world peace.
We want world peace.
Please give us world peace.
Please, I'm begging you.
I just, I just want, I just want the world to be peaceful, no wars.
And I bet it would have happened.
But women said, men, I want to be able to have sex unprotected.
I want him to finish in me and I want to not get pregnant.
Please, we want this.
Please, oh, please, oh, please.
And the men were like, oh, fine.
Here's your birth control.
And then the women said, I can't be with this ugly guy.
I can't.
I need a guy who makes me tingle.
I can't, I can't settle.
I could be fat and in debt, but I cannot settle.
And the men said, fine, you can divorce your husbands.
Just shut up.
Just shut up.
Please shut up.
And then the women, that wasn't enough.
The women said, please, can we abort our kids?
I don't want to have kids with this guy that's ugly.
I just don't.
I don't want to do it.
Please, oh, please, oh, please let me have an abortion, please.
And the men said, are really?
Really?
You guys want to kill your, you want to, you want to abort your children?
And the women and the women said, yes, yes, please.
Please, oh, please, oh, please.
I'm begging you.
And the men said, ah, fine.
Three months.
We'll give you guys three months to abort your kids.
We'll give you three months.
And the women said, that is not enough.
That is not enough.
I want more time.
And the men said, really?
You can't figure out if you're pregnant in three months.
And the men are like, six, is that enough?
And the women said, no.
I want to wait till that kid is damn near born.
And the men were like, oh my gosh, you guys are crazy.
Fine, fine.
Fine.
So, you know, it's easy to say should, but all women have this inclination to some extent.
All women want to be with the guy she can be a whore for.
But unfortunately, conservative men, they shoot themselves in the foot.
That's why I say, in a way, the liberal men are less cucked than conservative men.
Because the conservative men, like, and I always bring up this example, but it's a perfect example.
It's a perfect example.
Who is more cucked?
Stephen Crowder or Destiny?
Crowder got robbed.
He got his reputation destroyed.
Not really because he's a nice person, but he got his reputation destroyed.
He got robbed.
He had a virgin trad wife, but he was dumb enough to believe a 27-year-old.
Do you know what I mean?
No offense, Crowder.
We love you.
We love you, Crowder.
I was on your team in this awful divorce.
But in a way, you cucked yourself, right?
Where destiny, destiny comes in and said, yeah, do you know what?
My wife is a whore.
She's going to go be a whore.
I'm going to enjoy this relationship while it lasts.
And I'm going to go be a whore too.
I put him higher.
Everyone calls destiny a cuck, but I would argue that Crowder was more cucked in that situation.
I would argue it.
I would die on the hill.
So, yeah.
So, I don't know.
Am I contradicting myself here?
I don't think I'm contradicting myself by saying women should be virgins on their wedding nights, but we're not.
And so, what happens is usually the women that actually are virgins until marriage are either lying, bitchy, naggy, or there's something seriously wrong with them.
That's been my, or they get so much clout and they take so much status off of being a virgin that they get these big egos and it's game over too.
Because remember, virginity, we got to get rid of this idea that somehow virgin women are somehow more moral people.
Now, maybe you could argue they're more moral than, say, the OnlyFans models, but just because you're a virgin, all a virgin, a virgin is doing is not doing, and the men too, the men do this too.
They signal purity or like they're good people because they don't sleep around.
But it's like you're just not doing something.
That's not being kind.
It's not being considerate.
It's not being helpful.
All it is, it's just not partaking.
You know, I'll give you an example.
Okay.
I'm trying to think of some of my worst traits here.
I don't know how much I want to tell on myself today.
I can be a bit anxious, you know, as a person.
I'm kind of fidgety.
You know, I talk too much.
I'm not always considerate when there's just times in my life where I wish, I wish I was a better person, right?
But I've never done drugs.
I've never done, I could get too emotional.
I get, I'm an emotional person.
So sometimes that gets me in trouble.
But I've never done drugs.
I've never done, I've never done Molly, Perkista, any drug.
I mean, I don't really, I guess we, I don't know if I should be admitting that on the internet, but like once or twice, but I've never really been into that either, right?
Damn it, I said it on camera.
It's too late.
You know, it is what it is.
But, but do you guys see what I'm saying?
Like, I am not more, I'm impatient.
Actually, that's probably my worst trait.
I am not a patient person.
I'm not.
Oh, and I get so annoyed when things take forever.
On one end, it's fueled me because I think it's actually driven me to like achieve things because I get so annoyed that things aren't happening that I just keep trying to make it happen.
But at the same time, I just, the slow and steady wins the race thing.
You know what?
When I've ever gotten good at something, it's been I got obsessed with this for a year and I got good at it.
That's how I get good at things.
But I'm also kind of like, I can be fooled easily.
So, you know, like, I just think I could, I could see myself getting put into like a cult or something.
I could just see it working on me.
Or I don't know.
I don't know.
Maybe I, whatever, it doesn't matter.
But it doesn't make me a better person or more moral.
It just means I don't do drugs.
Do you know what I mean?
Now, there are some bad habits that you might pick up if you're a druggie, right?
The same way there are some terrible habits you'll probably pick up if you're too much of a whore.
But too often, women rely on like having a low body count or virginity as a way to signal virtue.
And it's really just not doing something that nobody really should know about, anyways.
Like, I don't know why we're talking about it.
Now, this is not me saying to be a whore.
And to be honest, guys, I just don't really see virgins taking the men that women want.
So I know you're saying this is like a pearl's like jealous or whatever.
I think I'm more jealous of Bonnie Blue, to be honest.
I mean, I wouldn't want to, I wouldn't want to take a thousand.
You know, that's a lot.
But, you know, I mean, that chick, I mean, hell, she's, she's living in like a penthouse in London and all she's got to do is have sex.
I'm like, that's pretty, I mean, I personally, I could never be comfortable with that, but it's a joke.
Please don't take that too seriously.
All right.
So the challenge is the virgin women today have way more power and options than the virgin women of yesterday.
So we cannot reasonably expect them to make the same choices as the virgin women of yesterday.
We literally can't.
Because before it was like you're excommunicated from your community, you could never like, you could really, you're going to be looked at like a prostitute.
I mean, I'm just, I'm speculating here.
Where now, I mean, women can make a divorce brand.
Women can literally make money and build an online following of divorce.
Now, the next comment I got was that virgins can pair bond and non-virgins cannot.
Now, I have to look back at my personal experience.
Now, you have to understand that I do have a lot of enemies.
And I try to be respectful in what I share.
But while I would say for me, that was a very bonding experience.
I cannot say that was the majority of what I saw with women when I was younger.
In fact, I was shocked by how little it meant to women when I was younger.
I was actually shocked.
And I'm going to change these stories a little bit.
Not that any of you would know who I'm talking about, but I'm going to list some ways that I knew women lost it and what happened.
There was one woman I know.
I mean, she lost it at a party to a guy she never saw again, and she did not care.
She just kind of wanted to get it over with so she could join in on the fun.
Another woman I know, she did lose it to a Chad and she did like that Chad for like a year.
Then she banged like 20 dudes, met her husband.
He was number 20.
She got out of the game at like 22, married kids.
Another woman I knew had a high school boyfriend lost her virginity too.
And I remember her explicitly telling me she didn't really understand why women were so attached, right?
She was like, I mean, I just dumped him when I went to college.
I didn't really care.
Or I dumped him for this next guy.
Didn't really, it didn't really matter to me.
And this was a common theme.
I mean, a lot of women I saw, they didn't really care.
Now, what I saw, the patterns, actually kind of, it was more based on women's looks level.
Hot women didn't care as much because they had more choice.
Mid women tended to care more.
But not all, and I can, even as I'm saying this, I'm still thinking of women that I knew that definitely contrary contradicted this, but still, still, I would say, broad brushstrokes, right?
So, the virgins of today are not the virgins of yesterday because the virgins of yesterday did not have access to social media.
The reason I'm saying this, it's not to be a downer.
I'm not saying that the world should be this way.
But if virginity was so bonding, women would stay with the men they lost their virginities to.
And what I see more often is from the women with the most choice, a starter high school boyfriend, slut phase in college, starter college boyfriend, graduate, city boyfriend.
At one point, the women opt out.
How early, how slutty do they get in each phase?
it depends.
But the reason I'm saying this is not to be a downer, but But I want to remind you that just because she's a virgin, it doesn't mean she's not going to ruin your life.
It doesn't mean, you know, if you want to take it as jealousy, that's totally fine.
I really, you know, I have a lot of negative traits.
I do.
I'm not going to pretend.
I'm not going to be holier than thou here and pretend I'm like a saint.
I'm not.
But do you know what?
It's interesting because a lot of the adjectives that are negative that I get, I get called online.
I would not say describe me.
I'm really not a jealous person.
They say I'm a bitter person.
I'm usually in a pretty good mood.
You know what I mean?
But there are negative adjectives that I would agree.
You know, they used to say you don't have enough life experience.
And I would say that was true.
I think when I started, I wish I had more life experience because some of the takes I had just weren't the best, but they get better every year.
So that's all I can give you.
You know, I would say I was maybe too moralistic to start.
I wish I didn't do that.
But, you know, it is what it is.
I got to keep going.
But the virgins I've met today, I would say in general, they're either not that attractive, they have huge ego, zero relationship skills.
And I want to stress if they're over a certain age and have not lost their virginity, it's really not because of morals, but generally because they are either very unattractive in some way, grossly overrank themselves, or just don't have access to the type of men they want.
And the mids suffer the most that try to hold out because you really, as a mid, you got to lower your price.
And these churches, telling a mid to wait till marriage is like the worst advice you could give a mid.
You can give a beautiful woman that advice, but a mid, yeah, right.
Men are not waiting for a mid.
I'll tell you that.
You know what I mean?
They're just not.
I mean, maybe you could do an age gap and you could shoot for it.
But if you want men your age, I don't see that working.
I don't.
All right.
So stories I've heard from men of men that have taken women's virginities.
One, he took her virginity.
She became a flight attendant, got a tattoo, and didn't really care after.
Usually hot women have a starter boyfriend that they leave.
Mid women tend to lose it to a Chad, either in a situationship or a one-night stand.
Some of the mids care, some don't.
Maybe it depends on the Chad.
Do men with choice choose virgins?
Yes, men with choice do want virgins, but they do not want virgins more than they value their freedom and ability to bang multiple women.
So a lot of the guys with choice really are not going to wait till marriage because they've really, once they've taken a few girls' virginities, they don't really think it's this like great thing that they thought it was because some of the women were bitches after.
And they kind of it puts it into perspective.
They're like, oh my gosh, what if I committed the rest of my life to this woman and she flipped a switch?
You know, Chads take a lot of women's virginities.
And Chads aren't going to stay with you just because you're a virgin.
If you're a bitch, they'll dump you and leave you.
I would argue that religious women are also more likely to call you abusive on the way out because they're more concerned with the reputation of liberal women.
Now, I do want to, I don't want to give the virgins too much smoke.
Obviously, the pros is that women are more able to bond the less partners they've had.
But, and that is true.
However, the virgins of today, the virgins of yesterday did not have social media.
They didn't.
So that's my monologue.
We're going to do a call-in.
And we're going to put Doug MPA on the line in a second.
But I got to put this invite link.
Invite guest.
Copy this.
And then I'm going to put it in the chat and on Twitter.
Give me a second.
Am I cooking or am I not cooking?
Maybe, maybe I'm wrong.
I could be wrong.
But the question is, I missed the naive, innocent pearl a few years ago.
It's been fun watching.
Yeah, it's gone.
This is why men like younger women because now I'm the annoying one.
I have to be the annoying one, being like, yeah, that's not real.
Even the men, they want to be lied to too.
Yeah, I mean, unfortunately, you know, when I started, yeah, I was, I was very naive.
I was very naive.
I was, I was, I was, I was.
Hold on.
I got to log in.
So, yeah, damn it.
I did not.
I'm going to, I'm going to do this on my phone.
I know this is kind of annoying, but I forgot my password.
So I got to, I got to.
So I want to know you guys' experience.
So I want to know: have you guys banged virgins?
What was your experience with it?
I want to know if you think I'm wrong.
If I'm, am I contradicting myself?
Maybe I am.
I'm open to, you know, I'll take the smoke.
It's fine.
Gabrielle says, so guys shouldn't wait.
That would be stupid in 2025.
I mean, you can wait.
I mean, and I'm not here to tell men how to live.
I'm really, really not.
But you can do whatever you want.
And if you think I'm full of shit, you know, but you're taking an already unfavorable deal.
I wouldn't recommend it.
I would not like because you're basically the only leverage you have as a man, because you can't be in a traditional marriage in 2025.
It doesn't exist.
Anybody that says they are, it's cosplay.
It's literally cosplay.
Because in order to be in a traditional marriage, you have to be able to enforce.
You have to be able to lay down.
Like, you know, imagine if we had a police officer, right?
And when I interact with a cop, I have to submit, right?
I have to say, yes, sir.
No, sir.
I always like when they're coming up, I put my hands on the wheels to know I don't have anything.
You know, I make them feel comfortable, whatever.
If they arrest me, I go.
And the reason I go is because I know they have the power to ruin my life.
But if you marry a woman, you're automatically giving her more power to ruin your life.
The only leverage you have is women hate being cheated on.
So if women know that you're going to cheat, if you treat her bad, that's enforcement.
It's not, you know, you might say it's immoral, but it's immoral to steal the kids, right?
Making her work for a ring and saying, I'm not going to marry you if you don't do X, Y, and Z and behave.
Or at least I get like 10 years out of this.
Now, every man has to pick his own strategy.
But what the conservatives do is they tell men to give up.
They say you're immoral and you are wrong for giving up your leverage because you need to.
Now, basically, they tell men to be traditional when the women aren't.
That's not on the menu.
You can't order that on the menu.
Yeah, so I sent this to the, to this is Shaf.
He comes in.
I'm going to let him in.
I'm in control of the mute now, by the way.
So I can, I can kick you guys, which is amazing.
Before I wasn't in control.
Doug MPA, what was, have you banged virgins?
How did it go?
Yeah, I have.
Surprisingly, a lot of Mormons, a lot of Mormon girls.
I was that black dude that was these poor Mormon girls grew up in a repressive religious household and their revenge was to sleep with the black dude.
That's always fun.
Wait, here we go.
I think I like this one.
Yeah.
And so was your experience that they were super bonded?
I would say, so would you, was your, how many virginities did you take?
I guess is my first question.
In my life, six.
Okay.
How many were bonded to you?
Five.
Oh, cool.
And what happened?
Why didn't you marry him?
What went wrong?
So I went through my very first relationship in my life was five years.
Okay.
And then I moved off to college.
And after five years, I was like, yeah, I know.
So most, yeah.
So that's what it was.
You know, I started running into these girls in my undergrad and that happened.
And I was like, nope, spent five years in a relationship from my late teens to early 20s.
I'm not going to do that again.
But it's interesting because in a way, the women must not have like, how do I put it?
Like when men are in a relationship phase, virgins never pick them.
Do you know what I mean?
Say that one more time.
So women have a menu, right?
You know how men have a menu and women have a menu, that analogy?
Yes.
And women can order a man in a relationship phase, but we order the fun guy.
Yeah, 100% true.
And so it's like, if women really wanted to wait, why did you order the fun guy?
And also, you sleep with a virgin, right?
And she's bonded to you, but then you still have the risk.
It's a screwed up situation all the way around.
You don't want to wait till sex.
No, you don't want to wait till marriage to have sex because a man doesn't truly audit a woman for a relationship until after sex happens.
You don't want to, Pearl, I'm going to put you this way.
Guys put up with all sorts of stuff until they get sex.
Then you sleep with the woman.
You're like, why is her voice so annoying?
Why is she nagging me all the time?
Why is she chew with their mouth open?
I'm serious.
Yeah.
Before sex, and these guys were dumb enough to marry these women without having sex with them.
And then they're stuck with the woman after sex happens.
And so even if you're not married, you sleep with the girl, you bond with her, but then you still have to run risk.
She's going to change.
Your perception of her is going to change after you have sex with her, but her perception of you is going to change after you marry her.
Understand I'm saying, yeah.
So they get married, they bang, and they're like, oh shit, that was starfish sex.
That's the thing I like.
There's no better sex than the sex before marriage because that's when women after working for the ring.
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
How many guys in the chat never heard I'm too tired or I have a headache until they got married?
Yeah.
Or actually, nowadays, you hear that after you move in with a woman.
You move in with the woman.
All of a sudden, I have a migraine.
I have a headache.
My job was too tough and I'm too tired.
Yeah.
Cooked.
I'm going to bring Glenn up.
Glenn, how are you?
Yo, what's up, May?
No, much, not much.
How you living, you guys?
Doing good?
Good.
How are you?
I'm well.
I'm well.
Just busy working on this nonprofit.
Nice.
What's your experience with virgin women?
Now, it's been a long time because I have a rule because I don't, I don't, if you're a virgin at any age, I don't care.
I run away from you.
You're a problem.
Why?
Okay.
Because they become too clingy.
Like, you know, you like, tell me, see, guys don't tell them up front, like, hey, this is just a thing.
We're having a good time.
I'm not going to be your husband.
I'm not trying to be your husband.
But then after you give them the D, they think that you're their husband.
Yeah, but you've been married before.
I know.
So, but I'm saying, like, before he's like, I know.
Before, before you were in the market for marriage at one point, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So, it like, what would be wrong with a clingy woman?
And that's, you know, because like what Doug said, now we realize we have, we, we're, we have, we now aware of all your annoyingness.
Like, we tolerated it and we realized, you know, after the sex versus your irritation level that you guys give us, it's just not worth it.
It's just like, you know, no, no, no.
You know, and here's the thing, though.
Um, women, a bunch of women always say their virgins.
Doug, you know, how many women have probably told you that I've never done this before?
We have, I think, I think that I've never done this before is in the virgin conversation, though.
I mean, well, uh, I've never you've never had girls that say that they've never done this before, like in the happening involving sex, yeah, but they never claim to be virgins.
A lot of women that have never done this before will say that about anything besides missionary sex, you know what I'm saying?
Oh, yeah, you know, I've never swallowed before, or you know, I've never taken it in the back door, or you know, I've never, yeah, I've heard them say that, but I wouldn't assume that a woman that I've never done this before is a virgin.
I've, I think it's still a strong kind of a different kind of thing if a woman says I'm a virgin and she's not.
But yes, I would agree that women do lie about being virgins, though.
So here's the thing: I don't think virginity is that important.
I could care less about your virginity.
Because one, I can never validate that, verify that, or you know, fact check that pussy does not come with a fact check.
There's no badge check that comes.
I can't get a report on that badge check.
Okay, um, since there's no badge check, you just want me to take your word for it.
Well, you know what?
Women lie, men lie, you know.
So, I'm just gonna assume that you have a past.
So, with that being said, it's just like I don't care if she's a virgin or not.
How does she treat you?
If she doesn't treat you right, if she doesn't treat you the way that you want your future wife to treat you, then it's a pass, bro.
Like, I have a question for Pearl and Glenn real fast.
Do you think that?
Oh, I'm sorry, go ahead.
I want to welcome this is Shaw to the panel.
Hi, Pearl.
Thanks for having me again.
What's going on, Doug?
Good to see you, Glenn.
Hey, how are you doing?
In a second, we'll have you go through the history.
You know, I've been trying to get a hold of you, Sean.
Really?
But I wrote anytime, Glenn, I'm I like your stuff, man.
And you're able to pass on this on this question if you don't want it.
But have you been a virgin?
How was it?
Uh, no, not for me.
You know, I didn't start dating till a little later.
And the way I date now, to be honest, it's not really a concern for me.
I've not really cared.
So, okay, cool.
Um, Doug MPA, what was the question?
Um, Tradcons try to say that a woman saving herself until marriage is supposed to be some kind of predictor of good behavior or virtue.
Like, do you think that there's any truth to that at all?
No, I don't think so.
I really don't.
No, because do you know what?
Every time I've met a woman that's a virgin, like 90% of the time, she's a bitch who uses it to like because if you're like, Yeah, I'm a whore, you kind of got to be nice.
But like, every time I meet, okay, I've met, and the thing is, women that are virgins and they want to wait till they're married.
I did know a girl in high school who did that, and she actually was a sweetheart, but she was done by 21.
She was not.
If you're, that's why I said over a certain age, there's something wrong with you.
You're not about it because girls that are about it, she went to school, she went to like I'd have to, I don't want to dox anybody.
So she went to a school that I'll just say her type was at.
It had all the STEM majors.
She was like, I am going to marry a doctor.
She said it.
She went there.
She did it.
Housewife.
But she was done by 21.
That's why, like, when I meet them and they're like 24, I'm like, I don't think you're about this.
Like, I just, I don't think you're, I don't think you mean that.
You know, I think you just like the like clout.
Because in a lot of church communities, they get clout for like telling everybody that.
It's like in the attention economy.
So I was hoping, um, Shaw, you could go through maybe some of the history of marriage because I was kind of curious, what did men get in the past versus today?
Um, now, obviously, we can't verify the virginity stuff.
So I was more curious in terms of like dowry in terms of women staying, like age, like what age women married at before, like that sort of thing.
Yeah, sure.
I mean, it's definitely a lot, but I'll condense as much as I can.
And, you know, what most people today are familiar with goes back to about the 1950s.
That's what the TradCons are selling.
And that's what they consider traditional marriage.
Prior to that was the dowry system, which we discussed during our sit-down.
And that was actually here not too long ago.
I mean, it got abolished in France in the 1960s.
In Italy, it was in the 1970s.
In Greece and Spain, it was in the 1980s.
England was kind of the first to push it away and the US after that was following it.
But in that system, if a woman did not have a dowry, she was not able to get married.
I have a newspaper clipping of the Pope handing out dowries in the 1800s, I believe.
And the women, it says in the newspaper clipping, would now be able to obtain a husband or have the money to join a convent.
Basically, it was up to them at that point.
So this dowry system was what marriage was in the West.
So not just in other places, but in the West for a very long time, all throughout Christian Europe, prior to that in the Roman Empire, and prior to that in ancient Greece.
And it's actually kind of a big clue because one of the other systems is bride price, which you see in the Old Testament.
You know, that's the mohar.
But if you see an ancient society and they're a dowry paying society, you can pretty much guess that they're a lot more advanced because bride price societies are typically poorer.
So prior to dowry societies, you had the bride price, which is there was a set amount, a uniform amount.
It's not a bidding war.
There is a uniform amount for how much someone is expected to compensate her family, not her, but her family, in order to marry her.
So going back prior to dowry, we had bride price.
And nestled within all that is, you know, changes in family law.
Divorce and polygyny tend to be a little higher with bride price paying societies.
In early dowry societies, that's where monogamy starts to come in.
But divorce was still really a civil matter.
There were ways to get divorced and there was divorce laws around that.
Then as Christianity takes over and it slowly changes in Europe, it becomes no divorce.
So you only have annulments and things like that going for almost 2,000 years, all the way up until industrialization and things starting to change, basically.
And then you get the U.S., which as soon as the American Revolution happens, they're already pushing back against the Church of England and say, we want divorce to be a thing we can do.
And then you start to see this system of at-fault divorce being created because they didn't have anything to fall back on because for 2,000 years, there was no divorce, just annulment.
Then you start to see marriage wrestled away from the church and put into the hands of the state.
And divorces used to happen in the state legislature.
And then it started being taken over by the civil courts and they started coming up with cause, which would have been adultery.
I think that's what it was in New York early on and all these kinds of things.
Now, to relate this to virginity a little bit, because I know that's what you're talking about, the way these different systems of marriage come up is really very much related to how property is transmitted throughout society and how the economy works.
In bride price paying societies, this is a long time ago, women contributed the major labor value to agriculture.
Okay, so the reason you paid the bride price was because her family was losing her labor value and you are giving them a uniform amount because that's going to allow them to procure another woman either for the guy who might have his second wife now or one of the sons in the family who might be getting his first wife.
And then this creates a circulating fund and it goes around and you got kind of an exchange there.
Okay.
And now she's working and her real income, which is her labor on the farm, is contributing to the household wealth.
When the plow is invented, because these poorer bride price societies used to use hoe and digging stick, I could even share my screen and show you some sources if you'd like.
I don't want to complicate it, but I do have them here pulled up.
Then what happens is, is a lot more wealth starts to be generated and you start to get rich families, middle class families, lower class families.
And when that happens, there's a lot more concern about property transmission.
And what happens is you start to see the dowry system spring up.
Now, the value on virginity and the amount of energy it takes to keep a woman a virgin starts to increase as there's higher stakes for property being transmitted throughout generations.
So in a bride price paying society, having to basically guard her is less of an investment because she's probably going to get married around puberty.
Okay.
Now, when the dowry system comes in, it pushes back marriage, not to like what it is today where people are getting married at 28 or 30, but to like, you know, 18 to like 20 or something like that, because it takes time to set up the dowry for her to get married.
And if you have a, and so virginity matters because the statuses of the families are important.
But beyond that, if she gets pregnant by some guy that's not on equal footing with her family, you now have a bastard because you don't have genetic tests back then.
This bastard is going to have a higher trouble of having any kind of integration with society because how are you going to get this guy married?
We don't know who the dad is.
He doesn't have an inheritance request coming to him.
We can't negotiate this.
Now, if it's a daughter, we don't know, there's not much contribution for a dowry except what her family may already have to give her.
So guarding her virginity matters a lot because it's going to affect property transmission for this family.
So there's an incentive to do that.
Now, I know this is me probably distilling this down to a lot of just economic and property and money kind of concerns.
Yes, yes.
But, you know, and then there's the spiritual aspect of this.
Obviously, religion plays a role, but typically religion helps us through these changes in our lives and things like that.
And so that's kind of where it goes, right?
Then we go to this at-fault system and at fault is heavily influenced by what's called the love match.
Okay.
And as you see the dowry system go away, you start to see, I mean, you start to see media coming in.
You know, the printing press came in in the 1400s.
You started to see tales of romantic chivalry being printed cheaper now than ever.
And then as this started going on and industrialization and all these things came in, it changed women's labor value in terms of what they can do.
Romantic stories were really big.
It's becoming part of the psyche.
But still in a lot of places, the dowry system reigns supreme.
You know, even in Germany, we have data from a city in Germany where it was required for both parties to register their assets prior to the marriage.
And you can chart this out.
I have a paper on this too.
I can show you guys.
How do you know that was not just in that specific city?
Like what percent of people did this?
I'm just curious.
Oh, because everybody did this from top to bottom.
I have, we have so many sources on this.
It's not even funny.
I mean, we have stuff that's contemporaneous with the times.
We have academic writings about this.
So we know, we do know exactly how it worked.
And we can point back to it and look at a ton of examples.
It was more in the day.
There was just way more like the whole family money was riding on this, on this girl not being a whore.
Well, yeah, there was a lot of that because I mean, you know, if you ruin your family status, they might have other siblings.
They're trying to get married.
I mean, it would just complicate a lot of things.
And then, you know, all of a sudden she's at the tavern one night and we don't know who gave it to her and we can't prove that.
And then you got, you know, these mouths to feed over here.
We don't know who it is and all this kind of stuff.
And then, you know, as we come closer, because the question is, is marriage worth it?
Especially from trad or like that, you know, you'll ask, you'll say, Peril, you'll say marriage is a bad deal for men, which I 100% agree with, especially the way that we do it today.
And the trad cons will come and try to argue with you about that.
But we can provably show that marriage is a bad deal for men because there is so much literature.
I got newspaper clippings, I got academic journals that show that people who got married, their wealth levels tended to match.
And that's how it was arranged.
So the woman always came with this property.
In a lot of places, the dowry was a whole house.
I mean, in Italy, in England, there's a not only do you not get a house, you have to take a girl at the bad credit score.
Yes, dude, it won't get Russia.
And you don't even get the free trial.
Hey, Shaw.
Yeah, I wanted to ask you about the current situation in China.
Sure.
How there's so in rural China, there's like 19 million more men than women.
And first off, remember, Pearl, how you always say that like rural women will move to the cities.
A lot of these women want to move to the cities.
And to forego that, they're charging rural men absorbed amounts of money on average, like $19,000 to $20,000.
So they'll charge city men cheaper because then if they get to marry in the city where the schools are better and stuff.
So they're not expected to be virgins or anything like that.
It's just out of sheer availability.
And they're trying to push the government to abolish this whole bride price thing because in certain areas of China, it's gotten out of control.
Yeah, China is an interesting place historically because it's such a big place.
I mean, you've seen bride price and you've seen dowry systems occur there.
Typically for rural areas, you would see more of a bride price system.
And then in certain places where in the cities where there's more urbanization and class differentiation, you would see you would see dowry systems.
They're in some trouble there because, you know, they had communism for a bit and with communism coming in, that got rid of a need for a lot of bride, like these kinds of concerns because it's suddenly government daddy now and it's just, it's completely different.
You can argue our robust welfare system over here has caused a lot of problems.
Maybe we could talk about that later.
Oh, yeah, boy.
But then they had their one child policy and all that, which really skewed the population numbers a lot, you know.
And even in the past, you know, I read something, I was reading this book from like 100 years ago.
This isn't just in China, but this is also in England.
And they were looking at England and India.
There was less men and there was more women because not only because of wars and things like that, but also because a baby that's a male's head is a little bit bigger than a girl's.
So there was a lot more infant mortality with boys.
So this would affect the numbers, especially going through industrialization and these kinds of things.
But that's an interesting aside.
So what they're dealing with over there, and I've seen some of those videos.
I don't know how many of them are true because they're all translated, but I believe them for the most part, where a lot of guys are having trouble.
They're either having to leave or get brides from somewhere else.
But then there's also a lot of leftover women who want so much that they don't get married.
And that's becoming a phenomenon over there too, to where it would be, especially if they're living in the city and it's about status.
It's about trying to secure a husband that's going to have a higher income.
Then they need a dowry system to do that for her.
And that's the only way, there's all these issues because the government has come in and made all these changes.
Even Thailand's another interesting example in that they paid the bride price over there, but they were technically polygynous.
It was not illegal for a guy to marry a second woman until the 1930s when the king just said, we're not doing this anymore.
We're doing monogamy, but they never changed from bride price to dowry.
So it's kind of, you know, this weird thing.
So there's been a lot of like people coming in here and messing up the systems for what they used to be, basically.
What did you say?
There's the biggest problem.
Hold on, hold on.
I'm gonna, I'm gonna read super chats for one second and then we'll welcome Sean to the panel.
So, um, Caesar says, This is Shaw always has something interesting to say.
Yes, he does.
Uh, Steve Ab, um, Doug, I didn't know you were such a Tyrone.
I'm not angry, just disappointed.
You should be proud.
What do you mean, guys?
Dave, thank you for the cat super chat.
Uh, Silveria, low body count is loyal.
They said, Get her early.
They said, Let's ask MXR Henry how Jeannie turned out after 10 plus years of success, 100K a month income.
Um, yeah, okay.
So, again, my point is not, and maybe they're saying I'm contradicting myself, but the original deal I thought was men got virgins.
So, I guess that's what it should be, but that's not what it is.
And I just don't see virgins sticking around today.
Um, even the ones today, it just seems like there's something off.
But, Sean, let me know what you think on the topic.
Um, feel free to add on either that question or something else that was said.
Go ahead, welcome to the show.
No, a lot was said, so I don't know where we're at.
But, shout outs to everybody, shout outs to everybody on the screen right now.
So, uh, go ahead, go ahead, bro.
So, we were talking about how, um, in my experience, I always thought that virgin women were more moral or something, but usually over a certain age, there's just something wrong with them.
Do you agree, disagree?
Have you ever taken someone's virginity?
Um, and I also made the point that virginity isn't what it used to be.
Um, women used to stay now, even you can take someone's virginity and they'll be on a flight to Dubai the next week.
You know, so yeah, they're definitely gonna be on that flight to Dubai.
Yeah, now I'm not gonna say nothing about if I took virginity, I'll plead the fifth on that.
Well, what I would say is your assumption that they're good or bad.
I mean, it's quite rare for somebody to have that, and if they do have that virginity in this point in time, then I don't know, you have to really see why they maintain that virginity.
But you were right early in your assumption they're going to probably leverage that in a relationship or leverage that in their dealings in the marketplace.
I think what was just being said about marriages in China and marriages also in mating in what's it called, Thailand while I'm here.
Yeah, it's crazy.
You're definitely paying.
You're paying Buffalo, gold, land.
Girls are raking up on that.
As far as in China, it's very bad in China.
Like the guys are getting crushed.
Girls actually have mating calculators, so they know how much they could equate for worth.
So it's a crazy marketplace.
And I think things have changed dramatically.
One thing I would say, though, is in my history of dating, I have received an offer for you could say a dowry, but it was going in my direction.
So the family offered me money to marry their actual daughter.
So that's extremely rare, but I got lucky on that one.
I still passed.
But net net, it was an interesting situation.
Her family was from Sudan, so they offered me massive amounts of funds to manage because the majority of the sons in the family were not competent to manage the actual family's portfolio.
And the father felt like if I was to marry his daughter, I would be a good successor.
And then at the end of the day, I was like, hell no, she could still divorce me and rob me at the end of it.
So no, I'm good.
And then I just backed out of the deal.
But yeah, it's extremely rare for that to happen.
Yeah.
Glenn, what were you going to say earlier?
I was going to say, like, you know, this whole thing, it's men appealing to women when really it really needs to be the other way around.
If you think about it, like her virginity is nice.
It's great, cool, cute.
But how does she treat you?
We already know what men could bring to the table.
We are the protectors, providers.
You know, we are the ones that.
They're going to be taxing on at the end of the day if they decide to leave.
We know that we are carrying the risk, right?
So if we are carrying the risk of the investment, then what are we investing in?
Why are we appealing to the thing that we're trying to invest in when it should be them appealing to you, the one that's going to invest in them, right?
So it's like we have this whole thing ass backwards.
And that's why we're in this situation.
Guys constantly trying to appeal to women, trying to, you know, dance to be the little monkey to try to like, hey, I'm a good catch.
But you see what the top 20% of what they're doing, they're not even worried about women.
Women are appealing to them.
That's the mindset that guys need to have instead of this other way around, because that's the only way you're going to be able to flip it is reinstate the value system that's different.
Like, hey, we hold the value.
You are going to be the addition.
Yeah, I agree.
Pearl, I do want to add to that real quick, because I am like the top 5% of America and 1% globally.
I'll tell you what, guys, they're not doing nothing fantastic for us neither.
They're just trying to take our money.
Like, I know you guys have dreams that they're like, and I'm 666, everything, six pack, six feet.
My six figures make seven figures.
So it's like, I still get raked over the colds.
It's worse though.
Like they charge me a high price.
And so I think Kevin Seven said it the best.
You're not a high value man.
You're a high target.
So at the end of the day, I'm just a target, right?
So the coolness is just in my freedom.
But outside of that, when I get into a deal, they want the whole barn.
They want everything.
So it's not like, hey, man, if I get this money and I become an ultra ninja, I'm going to get girls at my beck and call.
Nah, they're just going to play you.
That's it.
And it's worse up here.
I'm curious, how much money were you offered?
Ah, man, the family estate had somewhere around like 50 million or something.
That wasn't too bad.
He done well for himself for an immigrant to America.
Oh, my gosh.
Did you turn that down?
Yeah, I mean, I got my own money and then I know what that comes with.
I'm going to get divorced and she's going to take half of it.
Like, heck no.
Was she a complete goblin or something?
Nah, I mean, if I was still on the coach, I would have took the offer, though, but I wasn't.
Wait, couldn't you put her on child support then or alibi?
She's got the money.
It would depend on how that deal went down.
If they invested some of that money into the conjugal fund of that marriage, then it would mean something if she split.
If it's just I'm an heiress for a future date of some of this money, then it means nothing now.
Exactly.
And that was more on the last one.
Yeah, can I add something just for the high, high value man?
You know, when I used to work at child support, I've read so many divorce orders and divorce judgments that would cross my desk.
And even before a lot of this content was out there, I had realized that the more a guy was making, the bigger fish he was to fry.
So when I heard like Kevin Samuels or Coach Greg Adams use the word high value target, it immediately resonated with me because I'm looking at it and this is such a bad deal.
And this is where, you know, a lot of the red pill centers around this concept of hypergamy.
And a lot of times you'll see they'll say, well, women are hypergamous.
It's just their nature.
But the truth of the matter is, is that really both sides of the equation are looking for the best deal they can get.
And the dowry system, especially in a monogamous society, is what checks hypergamy on either side.
There is a really great comment on one of the shorts that you posted of us from our sit-down pearl that described a situation like this.
But the question I guess I want to ask is, you know, when I think of a high-status man or someone who's doing well, how would you get that guy to be monogamous?
You know, like I always think of Andrew Tate.
If I had to pitch the deal to Andrew Tate, how would I do that?
Do you guys have a suggestion?
I'll tell you mine after.
I don't think men like that.
I think he would just find a way around it.
Yeah.
Pearl's tried to ask multiple people to sell marriage.
It's one of the things on her platform and no one can do it.
So I'm not going to even try.
I mean, maybe, maybe there's some sort of like, if I was going to go the dowry route, it would have to be some sort of maybe political influence.
That's probably what I would maybe.
Let me add to that because I know where you're getting at.
For me, I would take wealth.
That would be the only way.
I always often say, I don't say I will never get married.
I would only get married to the owner of Hawaii.
He has a daughter.
I would marry her.
Yeah, that would be the only way I would get married.
So would it have to be wealth?
Well, yeah.
Well, and that's where I'm getting at.
And there's interesting because the situation you just described, Sean, I hope if I'm getting your name right, is what you said was really interesting because after you became well off, it became something you cared about less because now you have that.
And what we tell men nowadays, that's at least put out there as common knowledge, whether from TradCons or whoever is you have to make it, you got to be a good provider.
You got to, you got to get past all these things and make all this money.
And then a woman's going to want to pair up with you.
But if nobody helps him in his early days, why would he feel that he needs to be monogamous to one woman?
The dowry system helped these two help the guy get started in his early 20s.
They said, okay, his family's a good family.
He's going to get a good inheritance.
He looks like he's starting off on a good career path.
He has a good trade.
Let's invest this money, get his store open for him, get a house set up for him.
As he grows into this higher status, there's no such thing as leaving because these people, you're invested.
You're mutually invested in this.
With someone like Andrew Tate, I always think about it.
He'd probably still say no.
But if someone came to him and said, you know, this is my daughter and she's coming with a province in Romania and some shipping lanes and they have this much income per year.
He's going to have to think about it at least and say, should I get rid of my webcam ladies or whatever?
Or should I take this?
What's going to be a better prospect for my children going forward?
And he can make that calculation.
But the point is, is it's a negotiation.
It's a mutual contribution.
And this is how monogamy became a thing in higher complex civilizations and especially the West and why it worked for so long.
So nowadays, when it comes to virginity, if I'm a woman and my parents are leaving me nothing to help me with the marriage or no bequest, I'm out here in the market and I have to essentially play the love match game and rely on beauty.
I don't know.
Maybe it's the better idea to start the OnlyFans and get a million dollars like that 18-year-old girl that was on Twitter recently.
I bet she would get more takers, like to be honest.
Yeah, because the families are putting out the daughters as essentially poor women.
And then they're expecting some high value, you know, some high status guy or some guy with potential to take on this deal.
And then, you know, our family law system is essentially 50-50.
People don't like 50-50.
They don't want to hear the word 50-50.
They say it's a natural, but the fact is, is our law is 50-50.
So, you know, until they get that changed, then I think if guys are going to take the monogamous I'm married to you legally deal, they have to demand a contribution.
Until then, then they're going to keep doing what they're doing and the women are going to keep not caring about their virginity because virginity is not enough to create monogamy as we're seeing in front of us today.
Well, I think also guys need to prepare themselves before even thinking about marriage.
Even if you, if you're going to get married, if you're married-minded, then you need to protect your assets and protect your things.
And there's ways that do that to where they, even if you did get married, your assets are protected.
You know, do like a trust and an LLC and, you know, have an irrevocable trust there.
And, you know, your mama, like Hakimi did.
Remember?
The Hakimi maneuver where you put it all in your mom's name.
Oh, put it in your mom's name.
Yeah.
Well, I mean, in a way, yeah, but I mean, you could put it in a trust like what Ford did.
Ford put everything in a trust.
Ronaldo's getting married finally after being with that girl for 15 years.
But guys, where is he getting married?
Saudi Arabia.
You think she's going to be able to get anything from him in Saudi Arabia?
And if his wealth is there now.
You know, Glenn, to your point, also, sorry to interrupt, Doug.
See, that's where this whole prenup discussion comes from.
Prenups weren't really a thing.
We had actual marriage contracts.
Prenups are just a way of saying, I know I'm taking a hypergamous deal and we're acknowledging this in the front.
So I want the higher, the person that's higher status or higher earner, has more net assets wants to create some type of protection in order to take the hypergamous deal.
Right.
And then when you bring up prenups and our society nowadays, you're the bad guy.
Or why are you even bringing that up?
I think Michael Knowles told you, Pearl, specifically, that he doesn't even believe in prenups.
But prior to that, I wonder if he believes in dowry.
You should ask him next time, Pearl.
He believes his son should be a customer.
I don't know if they'll have me back, but I hope they do.
When we and Pearl were there, we asked him.
I was like, dude, are you telling me if your son married a woman who got pregnant by another dude that she knows it wasn't your son's kid?
Yeah.
Would you want him to stay married to her?
He's like, the divorce is have divorce.
I was like, so you want him to raise this other man's child, knowing that he was deceived to begin with?
I remember Pearl asking something like that specifically in the conversation.
But the other, what I'm trying to get at, too, is that there was a defined marriage contract and the marriage contract listed the assets that both parties were bringing.
And this was a thing that was discussed prior to the marriage.
Nowadays, if you're a guy and you bring this up, you're the bad guy, you know, for bringing this up.
Oh, you don't love her or that's not your concern.
I mean, it's your deal to provide.
You shouldn't be thinking about divorce.
But for most of human history, we have been having that discussion in the form of the marriage contract.
And it's weird because the closest thing we have now is a prenup, which forces that discussion somewhat.
But, you know, women, they're playing that sort of angle, basically.
Well, they're manipulating.
Like, oh, you're just setting yourself up for failure.
You just have one foot out and thinking about divorce.
And here's what you're saying.
But you see that more and more women are getting taken for a ride and all the women are like, oh, oh, you need to get a prenup, girl.
You need to get Mary J. Blige has to pay her.
Mary J. Blige's ex kept $6 million of her money and didn't pay her taxes and then use that to date and give another woman.
And she has to pay him $55,000 a year, no, a month.
Alimony, right?
Yeah, alimony.
There are more and more instances of this, and women are encouraged to get a prenup.
But still, if guys do it, we're looked down upon it.
It's insane.
But I would I would offer to the conversation that's their job to do it.
They're selling a product and they're making great deals for themselves.
I think men just got bad at making deals for themselves.
They have expended their reason and logic in the sexual marketplace and in courting.
And then I would give you an example.
Do you think Julius Caesar married the girl at the bread shop because she was sexy?
Absolutely not.
He made it the concubine.
Exactly.
He only married someone who was going to give him social, political, and economic power.
That's what marriage was for.
But at certain point, we have this thing called new wealth.
And so men might get rich by working at Google.
Men might get rich by getting a get rich quick scheme or whatever it is.
But they enter into a new paradigm and then they say, well, I don't care about money.
Well, any man who's very industrialist and ingenious all around in all aspects of life, he would look at it on a deal basis and say, why would I get married to you?
Now, I'll give you something.
You don't even have to be Elon Musk.
If you go to India, it used to be a time where you would go to India and then a family would say of engineers, of lawyers would say, you cannot marry that girl.
She works at McDonald's.
Our family marries engineers only.
And so there was an exchange always in the same class and in the same politics across the board.
We suspended it.
My brothers are the same way.
He would always dump teachers.
He was like too dumb engineering.
Like he literally made it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So we just suspended that, though.
We're just like, well, I make money, so I don't care about it.
And it's like, you always must care about it.
My brothers do well, but they're like, that's when I came into the space and they were like, but I don't care about money.
I understand it's not the same, but I was like, I don't know.
My brothers, they definitely did.
You see another kind of you see instead of actual wealth, you see another kind of marriage now of like social capital.
So Russell Wilson marrying Sierra is another thing where Russell Wilson, it changed his image and kind of verified his blackness because he married Sierra, who was a single mom into hip-hop and stuff.
Or Bezos, Bezos marrying the super mid, Laura Sanchez.
The greatest mid of all time.
100%.
That should be studied, man.
But she 80, I think, isn't it?
80 to 85% of shoppers on Amazon are women.
I guarantee you, most of them are between the ages of 30 and 50.
And so it gets Bezos' social capital and it gets him in better with his primary demographic of shoppers if he married, you know, an attractive single mom, et cetera.
Because do you imagine if Bezos would have married some 22-year-old hot little Russian model or something, they would have skewered him for it.
Yeah, you're just like Leonardo.
You brought up a lot of salient points there, Sean.
I really agreed with all of that.
And Pearl, to your point about men not caring about money, it's completely wrong.
Historically, men have.
And that was a major, major part of the marriage negotiation.
More recently, when romance took over and the love match took over, and fundamentally romance is the pedestalization of the woman, putting the man down here, then there's no limit to what her entitlement expects and to what he thinks he should give her.
Then it's, I don't care about money.
The other thing that you're talking about, Sean, there's two points is about, you know, this new money stuff.
And that was something that was a result of modernization.
So it became this thing where now you can go to college, you can go to school, and you could start off from a lower status family and you could have a higher chance of slingshotting yourself.
And then at this point, you might demand a higher dowry.
And all these things kind of contributed to muddying the waters and people not knowing how to negotiate that with romance taking over.
It was like the perfect storm.
But, you know, I would, what's funny now is I look at it now and I look at the cost of thing and, you know, wages not keeping up with the cost of living and all these kinds of things.
And we're sort of moving into this era where romance is kind of taking a backseat because we can't afford romance anymore.
And what we do going forward is probably going to have to be informed from what we did in the past.
And then to your point about concubines, it's funny you use that word because that's something I always mention.
And I like to say tradcon wives are not, they're not real wives.
They're nothing but concubines because they bring nothing in.
They expect him to pay for everything.
And when you look at older sources, there are older sources from ancient Rome and in different places that say the difference between a wife and a concubine is that the wife comes with the dowry.
That's what puts her into the station.
Like you said about Julius Caesar or King Henry VIII, she would not marry a, you know, some woman who's a local tavern wench or whatever worked at, you know, at the bakery, whatever she does.
The woman that gets to occupy the queen's seat is bringing in a considerable dowry, sometimes the annual income of the entire kingdom for a year, like it was in his case.
So this, you know, a lot of times you'll hear this other maxim that, you know, a man can make a woman a queen and this and that, but it's, that's just not how it was, I guess, but it's going to be such a stupid deal.
Everybody's going to be looking at him like, we have a dummy for a king.
We're all going to die.
This is, we need to assassinate this guy.
Something needs to get rid of this guy.
He's not speaking like.
We're saying like he's willing to risk what he has for something that he's not, there's not any extra value benefit.
Wait, Pearl, didn't that guy get stabbed out in Game of Thrones like that doing some nonsense like that?
I don't know why.
You didn't ever see it?
Oh my gosh.
The guy basically did the same thing.
He was the king.
He was supposed to lead, but he ended up just marrying some girl that was helping people and it messed up his alliance with other people that he was supposed to work with.
So I always just say, like, when you're having marriage, men are hypergamists too.
They just suspended it.
Exactly.
Like for me, that's the same thing I'm saying.
What benefit do I get?
I'm a dealer.
I will and deal.
So at the same time, this remote, this relationship, this is a deal.
And what is the basis of that deal?
But guys have suspended that.
And I would say, if you think that's lame, then call Genghis Khan lame.
Call Julius Caesar the lame.
But these guys would never sit around.
And anything, watch this, Pearl.
Guys even took fat wives if they had a higher dowry.
That's how hypergamous they were.
I have sources on that.
Go ahead.
They're them concubines, though.
So they're like, look, yeah, I got to go there with this fat one just one time.
But you know, I got these hotties over here, though.
So, you know, I'm okay.
Yeah, that is true.
It's funny, too, because you can, like you were doing, the most masculine men in history have taken dowries.
They would not get married and just throw away their marriage like that.
There was someone named Alcibiades in ancient Greece, and he was a major player in the Athens-Sparta war.
He was a general.
He was actually fighting on both sides because he played this game of politics so well.
And there's a history about him.
And basically what happened is he was bringing too many escorts to the house and his wife got mad.
And one day she couldn't take anymore and she decided to leave.
And he had to go over there and pretty much beg for her back because if she left, she was taking her dowry back with her and he wasn't going to be able to maintain his household.
So it's like this guy was a general.
Like he's one of the one of the, you know, this is a masculine man, you can say.
So we've all been really gaslit.
And we have this kind of weird collective amnesia, especially amongst men, of understanding how to negotiate marriage.
And Pearl, I'm telling you, this whole conversation right here is what you got a lot about the TradCon, you know, influencers the next time they try to, they try to dunk on you.
They try to put the level of virtue on there or morality, you know, attached to it when it comes down to it.
It's like we could be as moral as we want, but it doesn't mean the person that you're going to marry is going to be equally immoral as you are.
Yeah, and we've seen the court system through the divorce system.
This that church girl that was, you know, all good.
She loved Jesus.
She prayed every Sunday.
She was out there singing.
She is just as non-moral as the hoe on the street.
That reminds me.
Would you guys take a dowry in the form of OnlyFans money?
So, like, the like someone.
So, Sophia Rayon comes in and she says, Hey, guys.
Wait, wait.
She says, She says, I'm a virgin too, because she says she's a virgin, not only fans.
I'll say this, Pearl.
I'll say this.
She's got 50 mil, I think, or something like that.
She'll give you access to all of her money if you marry her.
Pearl, I'll say this: I am open for negotiation.
I will listen to the terms of the deal.
I will sit at that table.
I will have the discussion in good, full faith and credit.
You know, what about you, Sean?
Are you open to negotiation?
Yeah, I mean, you got to hear out every deal.
So, you know, money could be converted into other things.
Let's get it.
Gotta sit down.
Glenn, are you open?
I'll say, I'll say they're at $50.
$50 million.
We have another panelist.
I'm going to let some other people up, but thank you guys so much for coming in.
We have a full back thing.
No worries.
No worries.
Thank you, Pearl.
This is a great panel.
So thanks for coming in.
Okay.
So now we got Sean.
Sorry, that went a little off topic, but I'm hoping you can.
But it was great.
It was so good, guys.
There was a good convo going.
I try to keep it going, even if it's a little off.
But the real question we're talking about today is virgin women.
Have you ever dated a virgin, slept with a virgin?
Did it go well, bad?
How did it?
Did you see what I saw?
Do you think I'm full of shit?
Whatever.
Go ahead.
Yeah, I mean, can you hear me?
Yeah, I can hear you.
Yeah, I mean, I can give you sort of my thoughts.
Like, I think pair bonding stuff is kind of bullshit.
Like, you know, I've been with Sean.
Are you on speaker or something?
Because you sound really far away.
Okay.
Let me change my audio real quick.
Can you hear me now?
That's better.
Okay.
Awesome.
Yeah.
I was going to say, I think the whole bonding stuff is kind of BS.
Like, I have been with the virgin before, and I would say after sex, they're pretty clingy.
But eventually, if the girl's not happy with you, she's going to bounce, right?
We know women tend to make up about 80% of the breakups in general.
So I don't think because you bond with the virgin, she's going to stick with you for life.
Like, I think the trad cons are totally wrong on that.
But, you know, I would say, you know, as far as sort of the video, I think it's about like, you know, virgins over 25 in particular.
Like, I think men like the idea of a young virgin for a lot of reasons, including the fact that they're genuine, they're generally more impressionable and appreciative of a man's efforts and value compared to a girl who's been with like 10 guys till Sunday.
Right.
So, you know, if you start meeting girls that are like still virgins past 25, which I have, there's always something wrong with them.
Like they're either very sexually repressed or, you know, to y'all's point is they try to use it as a bargaining chip.
Like, I am higher value than these other women because, you know, I haven't given it up that easily, which to me, you know, I agree with Glenn.
You know, really what matters is who you're dealing with, right?
Like, does she have a good attitude?
Is she very supportive?
You know, does she put out pretty well and easily, right?
Or is she, you know, the type of girl who's just very prudish-like, right?
Don't want to deal with a virgin prude type girl, like it just doesn't make any sense to me.
Uh, so you know, when I meet girls that are like, you know, 25 plus that are still virgins, right?
I would equivalate that to like a used car with really low miles that it's been left on the lot longer and longer, and then they keep dropping the price, but like it's still not leaving the lot, right?
And you're wondering, like, why is that still there?
And eventually, they drop the price, though it's so freaking low, someone takes it off the lot, and what ends up happening, right?
The headlight goes out, the brakes jam up, the horn goes off randomly, and you realize that that guy bought a lemon, right?
Uh, so you know, I'm in the camp of the longer the girl's a virgin, generally speaking, there's something kind of off with that girl, and it's not necessarily something you want to deal with in a relationship long term.
Uh, and I would say anything that you're good at takes practice, even like relationships.
So, if a woman is 30 years old and she's a virgin, she's either never had a relationship or she's too crazy to have even gotten into the relationship stage to get to sex.
So, it's like, do you want to be that person's guinea pig?
I agree with that.
And you know what?
The whole starfish comment, I think that's accurate, right?
Like, it's kind of like a baseball glove.
If you buy a baseball glove and just start playing, you know, the big game with that glove, it's not going to work properly.
I think we all know that, right?
That's why you got to break the whole thing in.
You need to make sure you get the right grooves, and then it works really well.
So, like, I think when it comes to sex, having sex with a virgin is not going to be better by any means than with a girl who's, let's say, she had an ex-boyfriend for a little bit, but then, okay, now she's, you know, she's very selective.
She's, you know, she's only had maybe like a one or two guys, something like that.
I think that's far better to deal with, you know, assuming she has a good attitude and stuff like that than a girl who doesn't have any of those things and it's just like, hey, I've never been with any guy.
Like, to me, I don't know why guys are so obsessed with that.
But I do get the whole reason why guys do like virgins because, you know, if a girl's like 22, 23, and she's very attractive, and you know, she has all the choice in the world, there is something validating about the fact that she chose you over other guys, right?
Versus a girl who's like 32, 33, she's been with a ton of guys.
You know, you kind of know she's settling at that point.
So I get why a lot of guys are not necessarily looking to cash it in with that.
Cool.
Cool.
Great call.
Doug MPA, you got any other questions for him?
That was great.
Yes, Sean's always a good call.
Thanks for calling, man.
We really appreciate it.
Absolutely.
Thanks, guys.
Thank you.
That was great.
Let's do I'll Fight You Naked next.
I'll Fight You Naked.
What do you think of the topic?
Have you dated, had sex with women that are virgins?
Am I contradicting myself?
What do you think?
Go ahead.
I, in my earlier years, I lost my virginity to a virgin when I was 15.
And it was kind of no big deal for both of us.
She turned out to be kind of a head case.
And then when I was in college, I dated somebody who was a virgin.
She was 18, I was about 20.
And she was a little more emotionally connected.
Seems a little bit more normal.
Yeah, I don't, I don't know.
A premium on virginity, it varies so much from girl to girl, but I don't really think it's going to tell you much.
It just guarantees that you're not going to be raising somebody else's kid unless they sneak out to the tool shed while you're not looking.
Cool.
Cool.
Well, thanks, Doug MP.
Got any other questions for him?
I don't.
Nice and short to the point.
Thanks, buddy.
That's great.
Thank you.
Okay.
We're going to add Dasher.
Hello.
Can you hear me?
I can hear you.
So, what are your thoughts on the topic?
Have you been with a virgin woman?
If you disagree with anything I said today, feel free to bring it up.
What's been your experience?
Okay, so by the way, thank you.
It's been a long time.
I want you to come on your show.
Okay.
So what's up, Bertie?
So it's nice to talk to you.
Your sound is muffled, and I have no idea why.
Because if you want to go, I want you to come on the show, but it didn't work out.
I don't know why.
Maybe there was a technical problem.
I'm going to put you in the waiting room.
So if you want to fix it and then come back, I'll try.
Yeah, it just sounds really muffled.
Okay, so we're going to do Ranger.
Ragnar?
Yes.
So I think the point, but I think you're accurate.
You need to get a little closer to your mic.
Am I on speaker?
Okay, can you hear me now?
That's better.
Go ahead.
Okay, yeah.
So I think what I want, the point that I wanted to make was that I think you're accurate for maybe people who are a little more like friends with benefits.
But I think for a guy who wants to build a family, I think physiologically, the idea that a girl has been, what's your term, ran through.
I think if she's beautiful enough, he'll look past that, but it's never something that's attractive.
And I think the idea of him being the only one that's only going to ever add to the situation.
I do have a question about your forum in general.
If you ever discuss kind of the historical roots of the effects of feminism and where they come from, because I think a lot of you are very topical, so I understand.
But I think if you trace it back to, you know, the American Revolution, the French Revolution, and even before that, it can be actually pretty productive.
I know that might not be what your goal is, but I think that would add to the discussion and add to people's understanding.
Yeah, I appreciate the suggestion.
But going back to the topic, so we're talking about virgins over a certain age.
So generally, there's something wrong with them.
Do you agree?
It depends.
A lot of people, a lot of girls in religious backgrounds, like remember the Duggars.
Do you remember them?
Yes.
One of the oldest daughters who is the Duggar.
She, I think she dated Tim Tebow or something.
And some might say, well, maybe she was too picky.
So there's that.
I mean, she could just be too picky.
I think honestly, though, I think there's going to have to become a breaking point either evolutionarily or the countries with the court systems like Russia and Iran, and they're becoming much more powerful countries in part because of this, I think, that don't have a family court system that promotes feminism so much.
People miss a lot of times how you could take all the propaganda and all the culture you wanted.
If you think, so Jana Duggar got married at 34, you really believe she was a virgin?
Really?
Whether or not she was a virgin up until her wedding day.
First of all, I think it's possible because I think some women are just that way.
I'm sorry.
I got to kick you.
I just can't talk to men this naive.
Yeah, man.
Come on.
Come on, man.
Talk to men this naive.
Sorry.
You know, 34, please, God.
Didn't we read an article?
Didn't we on one of STD Fridays?
We're like women, Mormon girls are getting STDs in their armpits or something like that.
Come on, you mean tell me she hasn't blown a couple of dudes or taken it?
Come on, man.
Are you serious?
You're a nice guy.
It's nothing personal, but there's just a point where I just think there has to be a certain and I'm not saying you're dumb in other areas, but like there has to be a certain level of intelligence for this conversation to be worth my time.
Of understanding.
Of yeah, yeah, you may be smart in like your job or whatever, but they're just if you believe a 34-year-old virgin, you just got bigger problems, man.
Come on.
All right.
Oh, Mac.
Hey, how's it going?
Good.
How are you?
I'm fine.
So, what's your thought?
What is your experience dating women that either are virgins or claim to be?
If you disagree with something I said, feel free.
Go ahead.
I don't disagree with it.
I will talk about the experience of a, you know, of a family member of mine.
Okay.
And he basically asked my advice because this was a woman.
She was definitely, you know, she was a church girl.
She was part of the holiness movement.
And she's about 33 or 33 or 34 years old.
And she very much wanted to be his wife, but she definitely was saying no, but she was a virgin.
Now, definitely liked her, very sweet girl, but she was like a four or five.
You know, she was okay in weight.
But the thing was, at the end of the day, because of where she was in her particular beliefs, even though he was in the church as well, she was like, there's nothing at all that's going to basically happen until, you know, we get married.
And then to kind of shorten the story, the woman that wind up beating her out already had a kid and was willing to basically give it up.
And I kind of felt bad for him.
But the fact is, you know, when you're 34 or 35 years old and you're single, you're still a virgin.
Yes, you're going to be looked at as though something is wrong.
Something is wrong.
Yes, a very nice, I'm like woman, but you know, it definitely put her into a position of you're now past 30.
You're not exactly in total the best weight.
You're a little bit overweight, you know, and you're saying nothing is going to happen until you get married.
And that didn't work out for her.
Dang.
So that was a good story.
I know I've seen that happen before because it's too much of a risk.
They don't even know if you're going to sleep with them after you're married.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And it was, you know, and it was just kind of one of those things of, you know, she was willing to go only so far because even when me and him would basically talk, and then I said, well, you understand her beliefs, either you go all in or not.
And, you know, it was kind of funny when the ex-girlfriend basically found out about them, you know, dating.
Now, mind you know, she was cuter, you know, light-skinned and body-wise, you know, similar, but she was definitely more pretty.
But she had a complete nasty, nasty attitude.
And I think the only reason why she came back into his life and to basically have sex with him was because he was not going to let her, the virgin, win.
As crazy as that is, wow, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
It was, and then later, when they, you know, and then, of course, they wound up basically getting married, and she treated him like crap.
Of course, there it is.
She, you know, hey, hey, look, she was not gonna get beat out by a 34 or 35-year-old virgin.
She was not gonna get beat out.
And she married him and she treated him like crap.
She treated him like crap.
Sounded all right.
Yeah, damn.
Great story.
Thanks for calling in.
You have any other thoughts on the topic you want to go say before you go?
Well, I mean, look, here's the thing: women need to be moving in a, you know, in a proactive stance of saying, hey, look, I, you know, I want to be married.
If you start getting past 30, 32, 33, and you're still a virgin, yes, and particularly like in a black community, you are looked at side-eyed bigcom.
It's like, what the heck is wrong with her?
Now, I wouldn't.
I have a question for you real fast.
At what point, because Pearl said that a lot of women who are virgins, that's their primary selling point.
That, because I think a lot of those women, they get so obsessed with that selling point that they don't know what else to offer a man after, you know, besides that.
So it kind of stunts their development.
They should be focusing on what they can offer to a man, but they get so obsessed with their virginity that they don't even know what to offer a man once that's gone.
Yeah, I mean, I mean, look, if you're sitting there saying, I'm a virgin until marriage, then you need to be focusing on those things that make you a wife that basically makes you a wife.
Because to me, the ones I've seen, and there's only been two about two or three ever, like in my life, I've ever seen, they've always done, well, it's the virginity, you know, it's like, no, no, no, you're, you know, you need to be moving in such a way that you are a wife.
You're going to basically be looking to be a wife to this man.
You're going to be a benefit to this man.
You're going to be willing to have his children, blah, blah, blah, blah.
You know, move, you know, move in that direction versus it's the virginity.
And that's the only thing that you got.
You haven't worked on your attitude.
You haven't worked on the way that you're.
I mean, I mean, it's often just like you said, there's a bunch of development issues that are there, character.
And they're, you know, you know, like because they don't know how to work with a man, because they've always pushed men away to quote unquote protect, you know, the virginity statement.
Yep, I agree.
I agree.
You know, it's almost like wagu beef.
You know, like when they sell like, um, you know, like wagu, if it doesn't have that wagu stamp, then it goes down in price.
Well, now you're older and you still want to be stamped wagu.
Yep.
It's crazy.
You're cooking.
That's great.
Thanks for cooking today.
You're cooking wagu.
Yeah, you got to teach them.
You got to teach these virgins how to cook.
Yeah, I mean, I mean, because like it's just kind of crazy.
It's like, it's like, okay, fine, you're a virgin, but where in anything that you are doing that to where one is going to make that man get down on one knee and say, will you marry me?
And this is coming from a man.
I've been married for 29 years.
And when I basically mentor the young men around me, I tell them all day, look for these red, you know, look for these red flags because you will see the red flags if you pay attention.
Because women will tell on themselves if you allow them to talk enough.
They will tell on themselves.
So agreed.
You better call it again, okay?
I've called in before.
Pearl, the last time we talked was about church women, and you asked me what percentage was actually wife material.
And I said less than 30%, and you just kind of laughed at it.
Okay, we'll call it anytime.
All right.
All right.
Thanks, everybody.
Yeah.
Callers have been great.
I think the Stream Labs change is good because everyone's not having issues now.
I don't know what's different on this from Zoom, but.
All right.
We got ML.
Hello.
Hey, how's it going?
I'm going all right.
So, what are your thoughts on the topic?
Do you think that women over a certain age that are virgins have something wrong with them?
Or if you disagree with anything I've said today, you're welcome to bring it up.
Welcome to the show.
I think for the most part, yes, there's something wrong.
I have dated a girl that was a virgin in her late 20s and quite far as I know still is at this point in time.
And it was due to, I would have to say, parental death and abandonment issues surrounding that, broadly speaking.
Did you ever try to like hook up with her?
And would she just oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
No, like we were hanging around all the time.
I just even trying to get a hug out of her was herculean at times.
But then eventually I moved away and I popped back and forth from the city back to the city that we, well, where she lives now, where I used to live.
And I still meet up with her, check in.
But it's just like, I'm just like, okay, I like you as a friend, but my thoughts of you as a wife are long gone.
Just too many red flags, too much, too, too much lack of effort.
And it's just like, all right, you're just a casual friend now.
How old is she now?
She would probably be 37 to 39 right now.
Oh, wow.
Yeah, because in my experience, the women that are really about it, they're done by 22.
Yeah, I don't think she ever made that priority.
They go to college on a mission.
I mean, they might divorce at 42, but they get the kids.
You know, they get that rig.
They get the kids.
Well, she took about a decade to get a four-year degree.
Went part time.
As far as I know, she didn't fail.
She just went very part-time.
Yeah.
No priority, no urgency.
Just, hey, I'm going to hang around my little job here and live in my little apartment.
And I'll knit and bake and do other what would normally be seen as wifely tasks or wifely things traditionally, but not really going anywhere with it.
Yeah.
Cool.
Well, thank you so much for calling in.
That was a great call.
So call in anytime, okay?
All right.
It's a great show.
What do you think, Doug?
Yeah, I like it.
That was a really good panel.
We have to have that panel on again.
That was great.
So many different viewpoints.
Cooking.
Okay, guys.
Tomorrow for fun, because we're going to do a panel show tomorrow.
I mean, I think it's going to be a recurring Wednesday thing.
We're going to start at 9 because it seems like we might be able to get more panelists at that time.
I don't know if it's going to be regularly at nine.
I'd rather not stay up that late, but if we must do it, I will.
So I'd love feedback from you guys.
I really want you guys to be involved in the process of as we like develop this show.
And we're moving into a bigger studio soon.
So we're going to have more capabilities in the future.
We really just want to make this really good in the future.
So the more feedback we can get from you guys in the comments, the better.
Doug MPA, you want any final thoughts today?
Yeah, guys, this whole, I think there was a time where a woman being a virgin was valued.
It's just not the same, man.
You can't, like I said, there's getting to know a woman to have sex and then getting to know a woman after sex has happened for a relationship.
You can't wait until marriage to have sex with a woman.
You could be dooming yourself to five to seven years of torment and then she's going to leave you anyway.
You have to have there's there are comfortability levels.
There's sleeping with a woman.
That's a comfortability level.
Moving in with the woman is another one.
If you choose to get married, and let's face it, guys, a lot of us red people are going to be like, don't get married, don't have kids.
But in my lifetime, the majority of men are going to get married, right?
If you choose to do so, make sure you sleep with the girl first and move in with the girl first, and then meet her family if you can.
But this whole virginity has no predictor of future success.
Just because you're her first, nine times out of ten, you're not going to be her last, whether you may her or not.
So, I mean, you know, don't embrace the other side and beg a bunch of whores, but still, like, the whole virgin thing, guys.
I mean, come on.
Yeah, the girls are crashing out in the chat, but you guys did not call in.
So I know we had two Sarah's in the chat talking trash, and none of them.
Like, yeah, you guys call in.
All right.
Well, not today, though, because I got, I, you know, it's there's one more super chat.
Oh, there's one more?
Okay.
Uh, my best friend married a 30-year-old virgin and found out the hard way she had mental health issues.
Now he's getting divorced.
Yeah, it's not really because you have to understand the best, the most datable women have offers in every social group.
So, I mean, my yeah.
So, anyways, guys, let me know what you think in the comments.
Thanks so much for tuning in.
Thanks, Doug MPA, for coming as usual.
Any final thoughts you want to say before I close out the show?
Nope, I like this StreamYard thing a lot better than Zoom.
Yeah, so much better.
All right.
Thanks, Doug MPA.
All right, guys.
Thanks for watching.
I love you guys.
And I'm telling you, the next few months, this show is going to be one of the biggest shows on YouTube again.
So we're monetized.
We've been kind of playing it safe for a few months.
Now we can start reinvesting in the channel.
We can start getting the documentary.
I'm probably going to pick a team pretty soon for that.
But it's either I have to stay monetized another six months or we get enough donations.
I hate having to prolong it, but yeah.
So, anyways, guys, like the video, subscribe, and I'll see you next time.