Andrew Wilson clashes with Piers Morgan’s panel over American Eagle’s Sidney Sweeney ad, which surged sales by 30% after critics dismissed it as harmless. He argues the "good genes" framing mocks Christianity, calling Jesus Christ Superstar a "homosexual infiltration" of faith, while others like Mike Nellis counter that outrage distracts from real issues—like Epstein-linked scandals or child abuse in schools. The debate exposes tensions between perceived cultural hypersensitivity and systemic biases, with Wilson’s divisive claims mirroring broader polarization where online battles overshadow tangible reforms. [Automatically generated summary]
Young men have fallen faster than any demographic in America over the last 40 years.
It's a different world now.
Like, we don't need men the way that they used to.
We need men!
The future is female.
Men and women are drifting further apart, and society is crumbling because of it.
A fascinating debate has broken out about the value of marriage.
You've kind of got the Trad Con versus Red Pill thing.
This men's rights crowd that sometimes just goes too far the other way.
Oh, you need to stop acting like grown boys and infants and actually become men.
Marriage is a bond and it's a sacred bond.
It's a machine designed to extract resources from you.
Now many of the red-pilled have taken the position that it's bad for men to get married.
It's Hannah Pearl Davis or just pearly things.
One of the most controversial faces in all of the internet.
She goes on to say that marriage is a terrible deal for men.
Because if me and you were in a business contract, you would never sign a contract where I am paid to leave.
Gee, what could go wrong there?
74% or something of divorces are initiated by women.
Men have everything to lose, primarily their own children.
Men get killed by the courts and by divorce laws.
I had no idea that courts of family law were courts of equity, not courts of law.
Because in family court, you don't need evidence to accuse someone of abuse.
You need no evidence.
When you guys say get married young, a lot of these men don't know what they're signing up for, and you're not going to be there when their entire life falls apart.
I interviewed them on the other side.
I didn't meet my son until he was 15 months old.
How much did you spend trying to get him back?
On legal fees alone was about $200,000.
Before you know it, you're homeless.
You're literally just thrown out into the street.
We absolutely reinforce bad behavior from women.
Wives are taught to leave their husbands and then daughters grow up without their fathers.
Family is the foundation of the society.
Every problem in society comes from single mother homes.
A lot of women will just chase this negative rapid hole of happiness, endless happiness.
Feminism's biggest failures is it lies to women.
We tell women to date as many guys as possible.
We tell them to put off family into marriage.
You are allowed to leave your perfect husband.
You are allowed to end a relationship with a really great boyfriend.
Oh, freeze your edge, have an abortion.
What?
You're evil.
I don't think there's anything else in life that we actually ever go into preparing to fail.
Like if you have the mentality of this is going to go wrong and be pessimistic, naturally the outcome is going to be that it's going to fail anyway.
It's self-sabotage.
That's the thing.
Like women are so willing to leave marriages because they're not happy.
This is not about happiness.
The most important thing is the children.
And the problem is we have a modern society where it's me, me, me.
My feelings leave when I feel like it instead of doing what's best for the kids.
This myth that we live in an age of male privilege.
Where's my male privilege?
They think, well, men have all the rights.
They have all the power.
Privilege, patriarchal system that we have.
Why doesn't our society care about men's rights?
I have no friends, no wife, and no social life.
Men are alone in this situation.
Men are homeless.
Men are thinking about eating guns.
I've seen so many men on the brink of suicide and they didn't do anything wrong.
How are you equal if the men are the ones that have to fight and die to defend the country?
The men are the ones that build and maintain all the infrastructure.
Women are helplessly dependent upon men.
The so-called deaths of despair from suicide, overdose, or alcohol, three times higher among men than among women.
Culture is telling men, you are no good.
You gotta get your act together.
I think men have failed themselves.
What kind of a man are you?
What kind of a woman are you going to attract?
If men are in trouble, so are women.
Everybody knows this is a huge problem, but nobody wants to admit it.
Every single woman at the table said they wanted a man for a moment.
500K, 500, 200K, 300K, 200K.
Am I crazy?
Everything is really set up against you to fail as a man.
If men make less than women, women don't want to marry them.
So, you know who wants more economically and emotionally viable men?
Women.
I don't want to be an independent woman anymore.
I don't want to be a strong, independent woman.
I'm over age.
When is it going to be my turn?
Where are we meeting the men that don't stop?
I can't keep having these same conversations.
The only simp here is you, Pearl.
You sent for women.
I think you sent for women.
She's a provocateur.
She says stupid stuff, but Pearl is right about this.
It's already happening.
It's just not out in the open yet.
Now it's just hookup culture is going to be our fairy tale ending because men don't want a wife and women can't find a husband.
The future, if everybody follows your path, is there is no future.
We go into population decline and our economy goes into decline.
Civilization will crumble.
The American story does not end well.
This is an existential crisis, failing young men.
What up, guys?
What's going on, guys?
Welcome to another episode of Pearl Daily here on the Audacity Network.
Today, we are going to be reacting to Andrew Wilson on Pierce Morgan, which is kind of a fun, fun, chill Sunday.
But before we do, I wanted to thank the people that have donated to the GoFundMe.
So as you guys know, we were trying to raise $100,000 to put together this divorce documentary.
And we just hit the $37,000 mark.
Yes, guys, $50 15 hours ago from Juan Ignatio, $10.
Anonymous, $10.
So thank you guys for getting it to the $37,000 mark.
Now we're almost to $40,000, which is pretty cool.
So all super chats also go to the divorce documentary.
So today we're going to be reacting to Andrew Wilson.
I'm talking about the Sydney Sweeney debate.
Andrew Wilson, Sidney Sweeney.
And so basically, there was a tweet that was put out there saying that Sidney Sweeney is somehow involved in racist campaigns.
And it's just amazing how much society does not like when a pretty blonde girl, how much they hate pretty blonde women.
I do not know why.
I do not get it.
All right, let's see.
So apparently there's like white supremacy over an ad.
So let's watch this.
Sidney Sweeney has Bert Keene.
I was frankly angered.
The ad is racist and you've been exploded.
Oh my gosh.
Okay.
Well, everything Nazism and say everybody's a Nazi except for the actual Nazis.
Historically, we have only normalized white people.
And so we've made white women's, white women's bodies the norm.
Why can't you have good genes, Mark?
Sidney Tweeney is a sexable.
She is a young, hot woman.
That is all this ad is about.
American Eagles Sidney Sweeney has great jeans campaign has unleashed a Hitlerian hysteria not seen since the U.S. election.
Case you'd be living under a rock this week.
This is what the fuss is about.
Jeans are passed on from parents to offspring, often determining traits like hair color, personality, and even eye color.
My jeans are blue.
Sidney's tweeny has Bert Keynes.
She's got a banging body.
She's got a grape.
Sidney Stweeney has her jeans.
Well, half of the adverse viewers see a cheeky ad with an attractive actress flogging jeans.
The other half apparently see a subliminal propaganda campaign for eugenics, fascism.
Eugenics.
You've got to be kidding me.
And white supremacy with a dash of Nazis thrown in for the mix.
Those Sydney Sweeney American Eagle ads are weird, like fascist weird.
Did American Eagle just run an ad for eugenics?
The attractive white woman with blonde hair, blue eyes is talking about just her, just the genes she gets from American Eagle.
You see a blonde-haired, blue-eyed white woman and think that is an all-American woman?
That is the exact problem with this advertisement.
Hey, American Eagle.
Now do black and brown women.
Hey, you are.
There's so many.
It's like, how many ads do you guys want?
There's so many ads with black and brown women.
You know, I don't even like.
Do you know what I mean?
It's like, how many we put a blonde girl in there getting mad.
Oh, I can't go in there because I'm black.
All right.
That's a bit of an exaggeration.
I think we should just start shaming them instead.
You are an embarrassment, Sidney Sweeney.
It's not just excitable people on social media who are losing their minds on this one.
Even Good Morning America is wondering whether Sydney's great genes may herald the onset of a new Fourth Reich.
We begin with the backlash of our new ad campaign featuring actress Sidney Sweeney.
Yeah, the ads are for American Eagle, and the tagline is: Sidney Sweeney has great genes.
Now, in one ad, the blonde-haired, blue-eyed actress talks about Jeeves as in DNA being passed down from her parents.
Okay, she's hot, though.
I mean, you could say that about Beyoncé or something.
You know, I mean, it's just.
A on words is being compared to Nazi propaganda with racial undertones.
So is Sidney Sweeney the new poster girl for white supremacy, or is it all, as one commentator put it, just ugly girl jealousy?
Well, turning to my panel now, I'm away from my usual studio working on a slight delay.
So I'll begin with a polite request for everyone to take it in turns and allow the audience to enjoy all of your insights.
I'm joined by Jedediah Beela, the host of the Jediah Beela Show, by the conservative influencer Deborah Lee, academic and host of Bet News, Mark Lamont Hill, and the author of Cultural Intelligence for Marketers, Dr. Anastasia Gabriel.
Well, welcome to all of you.
Okay, let me start with you, Dr. Anastasia.
What's your problem with this ad?
I mean, I just saw Sidney Sweeney looking hot selling jeans.
What memo didn't I get?
I would love to live in a world where more people would have the privilege to look at this ad and simply see an ad for great genes, but that's not the world that we live in.
And we live in the world that is marked with a lot of cultural baggage.
So when I saw this ad as a marketer, as somebody who works with agencies and brands on issues of culture and cultural relevance, I was frankly angered.
And the reason for that is that the ad is racist and eugenics-coded.
And I have to be clear that when I say that, I don't mean to talk about the intent of the creators behind this ad, but rather the impact that it has on audiences and particularly on younger audiences.
And here we need to remember that the target audience of American Eagle is the most racially and ethnically diverse consumer group in the history of the United States.
And somebody who has spent a lot of time studying semiotics and the way that meaning is encoded in various forms of media and cultural artifacts, it becomes very clear to me that when we take apart this particular ad campaign, it marries certain concepts and certain words that carry cultural baggage for people.
And if that wasn't enough, we can go back and look to the source material for this particular campaign, which is a Calvin Klein ad from 1980 that uses very explicitly the same kind of rhetoric of, and even more so rather dramatically, natural selection, survival of the fittest, selective mating, the superiority of dominant groups, etc.
And from a perspective of media and cultural studies, when we look at this particular campaign, we can see how meaning travels from the source of inspiration to this particular narrative structure that we see in this ad.
And so it is no surprise to me that it was picked up by audiences that reacted in the way that they did.
And research shows, even though obviously Gen Z are in themselves a diverse group, they're also generally on average more progressive-leaning and, of course, chronically online.
Crazy.
You mean crazy?
Anastasia.
Anastasia, we haven't had you.
We haven't had you on censor before.
I didn't really understand a word of what you've just said.
Are you this much fun at parties, or do you have a different perspective?
I would love it if you weren't disrespectful to me.
It's a pleasure to join you today.
Gaslighting.
That's what we do.
It's like our default.
Our default is gaslighting.
Yep.
And I look forward to exchanging opinions.
Oh, wait.
Whereas Andrew Wilson isn't in this one.
Am I in the wrong one?
Okay.
Andrew Wilson, Sidney Sweeney.
I am so sorry.
Okay.
I thought it was.
Oh, it's this.
My bad.
My bad, guys.
I don't know.
Woman in me.
Do you want these people to destroy your theology if you're Catholic, sir?
They're going after your theology.
What am I missing?
Andrew Wilson, Sidney Sweeney.
On Pierce Morgan?
Okay, hold on.
Wait, take my screen off for a second because I think it was texted to me earlier.
So just I don't want other.
Wait here.
Get a life.
Oh, no, that's not it.
I wanted to see one with Andrew today.
Okay, guys, you vote.
I guess I thought Andrew was in this.
I guess he's not.
I was frankly angered.
Natural selection, survival of the fittest, selective mating, the superiority of TV just picks stupid people, so it's more entertaining.
Oh, my God.
Okay.
Marlon Monhill, let's look at an earlier American Eagle ad, which was in the middle of the whole Me Too campaign and stuff.
Do you have any problem with the lady on the left there?
Do I have a problem with her?
No, I don't have a problem with her.
Yeah.
I don't have a problem with her.
You're not offended by that image.
I'm not.
Fascinating.
No, no, no.
You do have a problem with the woman on the right.
No, Hold on.
Two things.
One, you specifically said, let's not interrupt each other, and I haven't been able to articulate one sentence yet, and I've been interrupted twice.
So let's follow your own rules.
I'm not offended by the woman on the left.
Let me complete the sentence.
I am not offended by the woman on the left, nor am I offended by the woman on the right.
The aha that you're going for isn't there because I'm saying I'm not offended by ego women.
Please, I'm asking respectfully.
Allow me to finish a thought.
Two people have spoken uninterrupted for three minutes.
I haven't gotten 10 seconds out.
What I'm saying is, the problem is not either woman.
The problem is how we're narrating the commercial.
That's what people are concerned about.
Several things have been said that I'd like to respond to in direct response to what you're asking me, Piers.
The first thing, and I'm glad the last woman who spoke mentioned that she's Jewish because I think that's really important.
Historically, there have been lots of anti-Semitic images, narratives, tropes that are used that non-Jews don't see.
could you let an ad affect your life?
I don't understand it.
I don't.
See, and many times someone will say, oh, wait a minute.
They showed that person playing into the cabal narrative.
They showed this person as a rodent, or they showed this person with changing their name to this or that.
And the average person may not intend to be anti-Semitic, although some people are anti-Semitic, but it's still there and Jews recognize it.
So I don't want to presume that because a white person doesn't see it, that that means that it can't be racist.
Or if a black person doesn't see it, you know what I'm saying?
We have to think about those on all levels from multiple audiences.
You used the word normal and talked about it in the context of this white woman.
White women are normal, but so are other people.
The problem is, historically, we have only normalized white people.
And so we've made white women's, white women's bodies, white male bodies, the norm.
and we've made everything else less human, less beautiful, less real.
And so when we say good genes are the ones that- What a load of crap.
Honestly, I'm sorry, Mark.
If I may jump in on my own show.
What a load of crap.
I saw Beyonce do a genes ad.
Everybody drooled over it.
That's what I mean.
Why do you, there's some people that just shouldn't have microphones.
I loved it.
Thought she looked hot when she did.
Right?
I mean, what are you talking about, man?
This is...
Can you imagine?
He's employed for his opinions.
He's paid.
Pierce Morgan pays.
He's paid for this.
And there's people that are subject matter experts and like academics.
And I'm Pierce Morgan.
They have like this guy.
And then a bunch of blonde e-girls.
And then some Jewish lady that can't do a coherent thought.
It's like, all right.
Ask a great question.
Let me ask you a straight question.
Does Sydney Sweeney, does Sidney Sweeney have bad genes?
Yes or no?
No.
I don't think she has bad genes.
Does she have good genes?
Does she have good genes?
No.
Again, you're trying for these gotchas if you're not.
The whole point is to argue that good and bad genes itself is a bad idea.
It's a race.
Why can't you have good genes, Michael?
They just pay him to argue with them.
Sometimes they just put like dumb people on shows just to argue with them.
All right, I'm going to respond and I'm going to hope that you don't interrupt me as I answer.
Okay, because again, no one else has been interrupted except the people who disagree with you.
What I'm saying is, the word eugenics.
Listen, listen, listen.
The word eugenics literally means good genes.
It literally means it etymologically.
The point here is to judge human beings based on their genes and to decide that you have good genes and you have bad genes isn't in and of itself a racist project.
That's the point.
So, no, it's not that I think that I have good genes and you can't say anyone else is good genes.
I'm saying, let's get rid of the good genes narrative, particularly when it's based on hair and eyes and body type.
Why?
Because those things are racially coded.
In other words, if I say that straight hair is good genes or blonde hair is good genes, and no, I'm not after watching an ad Googling someone to figure out their natural roots.
You'd be shocked to know how many people don't do that.
If I'm doing these things and I see blue, your eye color and your hair as a sign of your good genes, then that means someone who has a different hair or eye color doesn't have good genes.
And if you, the last thing I'll say is, if you look historically at ads, it doesn't though, does it?
Calm down.
Calm down.
It doesn't actually mean that.
No, hang on.
Hang on.
No, no, I will speak on my own show.
So just calm down.
I'm asking you not to be condescending.
Stop being so precious.
My instruction about shouting was between the three four of you, not me.
It's my show.
I do what I like.
I don't care if it's a good thing.
My point is this.
If you interrupt me in the first minute, it's bad form.
I'm saying that if you let the guest who agreed with you talk for three minutes, then don't allow me to talk for more than one second.
You literally did not even finish the person.
He's crashing out.
He is crashing out.
It's such when you're in these environments, it's such like, it's such a weird setting.
I kind of hate, so I don't really take these panels anymore because I just hate talking like that.
I want to talk to you like a normal person.
You know, I don't want to talk to you like this scripted monologues.
I want to like have a back and forth and understand where you're coming from.
Literally, you have literally done more talking than all three other guests put together, multiple or three.
So my issue with you interrupting when it was at the first 10 seconds.
My point was just don't interrupt me in the first 10 seconds.
So I'm not angry.
I'm not angry.
I'm talking over you.
Right.
Can I tell you?
I have blue eyes.
Right.
I also have good genes, particularly on my mother's side, because my skin is surprisingly good for a person of my age, because my mother's side all had good skin.
You got a problem with that?
Mom?
Is that for me?
You got a problem with that?
Yes.
If I say I've got good genes from my mother, because I have good skin and I've got blue eyes, so what?
So what color eyes are bad genes?
If someone has bad genes, what would their hair or skin look like?
I don't think any of bad.
I didn't see anybody from American Eagle saying that anybody else had anything.
No one said anything.
Just to be clear, hang on, hang on, hang on.
He's rewarded for being an emotional man.
It's unfortunate.
Nobody from American Eagle was making any comparison.
Nobody said somebody else's eye color or skin color was wrong or bad or anything negative.
All they said in an amusing pun is that Sidney Sweeney has good genes and is wearing great genes.
That's it.
There was no negative about anybody else.
And here's why I disagree with that.
Because if I were to stand on here and say, oh, she's from a good background, she's Gentile, then we would all say, well, wait a minute.
I didn't compare to anybody else.
No, by saying that Gentile is the good background, I would be implicitly saying that the others are not.
If I say, I have a good body, I'm skinny, then I'm saying the other bodies are not good.
It's an implicit comparison, but it's not out of context.
Historically, in this country and in the West, we've always said that white bodies are more beautiful.
So it's not like we're coming out of nowhere here.
This is at a Zeus's head.
We're starting from a place where we've already presumed white supremacy.
I actually think black women have the best bodies.
I really do.
They just that waist to hip ratio.
I do think blonde women have the best like features here.
Sometimes blonde women, a lot of blonde women have nose jobs.
So I don't think they normally like the kind of the crooked like nowadays.
Most women, it's so common to get nose jobs.
I like Latina.
Do you see what I mean?
I feel like there's different things that each race has that look really good.
I've heard Jewish women are really pretty.
I've never, I've never, I only know one or two, but I've heard they're, I've heard the girls in Israel are like beautiful.
Have spent the last 10 years.
All right, Jedediah.
The last 10 years, if you look at all of the marketing campaigns, all of we have done how many segments on television about the elevation of obesity?
You see people who are massive.
Now we're saying it's a good thing, right?
It's great.
Let's celebrate everyone who's unhealthy and obese.
If this ad was an African-American, if this ad was a Hispanic girl, no one would be saying a peep.
Frankly, I think if this ad was a white girl like me with brown hair, brown eyes, I got a little Spanish in me, I got a little Italian in me, I'm Sicilian, I got some African in me.
I don't think anyone would be saying anything either.
This is utterly ridiculous.
The only people who are offended by this ad are people who choose to be offended by everything.
Either you choose to see racism in everything or you choose to see sexism or misogyny.
I noticed that a whole lot of women online were mad about this ad because they were jealous.
It was so obvious.
Now they're saying that this woman is against the body positivity campaign because she's skinny.
So let's just say the truth.
Sidney Sweeney is a sex symbol.
She is a young, hot woman.
She is objectively attractive.
That is all this ad was about.
Now, why has the stock skyrocketed for this company?
The reason this ad has done so well is, yes, because it creates controversy and we all talk about it and we debate.
And American Eagle is very smart and they knew that, but also because there is a growing segment of the population just like me that is saying that is so tired of walking on eggshells to cater to people like Mark's sensitivities.
Frankly, I don't care if you're offended.
You can put an ad out and offend this person over here or that person over there.
Everyone is always going to get offended by something.
Who cares?
Here's the bottom line.
Stop getting so offended.
If you see everything through the lens of race, that's your problem.
That's not Sidney Sweeney's problem.
I agree with Jedediah.
Getting offended, the way I think, even if somebody's insulting you in your face and yelling at you and screaming, getting offended says more about you than them, because their anger is their problem, but your anger is also your problem.
That's not American Eagles' problem.
If you see everything through the lens of misogyny, it's the same conversation over and over again.
You know what?
I agree with you.
Don't all talk at once.
Don't all talk at once.
No, I'm going to come to Anastasia.
Anastasia, here's the problem.
The Democrats have just pulled record loads, right?
They are incredibly unpopular.
And I can tell you one of the reasons why.
It's things like this.
The reason Donald Trump got re-elected is partly the economy, partly immigration, but also partly the culture wars, which the liberal left, the woke left, tried so dementedly to fuel and fire for so many years, behaving like a bunch of insane fascists.
And it comes down to stuff like this, where most people watch this ad and see it for what it is.
A harmless ad with a hot actress selling jeans.
But in the prism of the woke left, which I assume you would identify as, but correct me if I'm wrong, you look at it and see it as an obvious example of Nazism, eugenics, white supremacy, and you hate it and despise it.
And anyone who likes it must be cancelled.
And that's the problem with the woke left.
That's why nobody wants to vote for anyone who identifies with the woke left.
That's why Trump won.
And no one on the left in the woke left seems to understand that it's exactly this kind of thing that is the reason that nobody wants to vote for you.
Over to you.
Yeah, I hear where you're coming from.
And I think that kind of strong narratives between, you know, woke left, kind of hijacking everything is part of a narrative of labeling people and not allowing nuance and context of what is actually happening here.
So I'm not really interested in being inflammatory around the subject.
Neither do I think that this particular campaign is a propaganda campaign for eugenics.
But I am interested in thinking about the power of media and representation in our culture and what it means for somebody who engages with this ad who doesn't look like me.
And as a marketer, I know that actually it is American Eagles problem that that is a reaction of their customer base, which is younger people and particularly younger girls.
And as a marketer, I know it's the responsibility of the brand to understand their audience, to understand their worldview, the way that they form their associations and connect with them.
Women just say a lot of words, but say nothing.
Nothing at all.
speak to them in a way that resonates so it's absolutely respond to that Today's show is brought to you by Oxford Natural, makers of the Optimum Day and found out.
One model's picture wearing a colostomy bag.
Another was photographed with her arm in crutches.
One woman posed in her wheelchair.
And it did nothing for sales.
So from a marketing point of view, it didn't work.
Now you have a hot woman who is none of those things, who is just a hot woman, like the old advertising used to use all the time along with hot men.
I remember the Calvin Klein gene ads with men.
Yeah, you know, I want to go to a movie or see a models and I want them to make me feel bad about myself.
I want to look at them and say, wow, I am not shit.
And that's how I used to feel as a kid.
But nowadays, I guess it's kind of nice.
Women complain so much that they're putting ugly people as models.
What a time.
Topless, selling buckets of jeans.
And guess what?
Sales are up 30%.
So you as a marketer should say, well done, American Eagle.
You've stopped being ridiculously woke, you know, trying to sell to very small groups of people and ignoring the mass majority who are going to buy your genes.
And now you've gone root one using sex and femininity to sell genes.
And by the way, they don't care if she's white or black or anything else.
They just care that she's hot.
And Beyonce sold jeans.
That was a great campaign.
That worked really well because she's a hot black woman.
And the moment you try and read in all this other stuff, I mean, you say you don't want to be inflammatory.
You literally said it was one of the most outrageously racist marketing campaigns ever.
What could be more inflammatory than that?
Well, let me correct you, Pierce.
I feel like this is just like a Twitter space argument in real life.
It's like people arguing over nothing.
I said that I've seen in recent years.
I'm very careful with my words.
So I did not paint this picture of this being a racist ad, you know, ever.
But I do think, and I think I've explained the way that representation works and the way that I see it working within this ad.
Now, I would love to see the evidence for the 30% sales spike.
I personally have not seen it.
Neither I have seen anyone in the marketing community share it.
So I would love to see it and the source for that.
However, there is a question of ethics and there is a question of ethical guardrails in marketing.
I understand that in 2020 or whenever, brands were responding to the cultural moment of post-2020 impulse to increase representation, diversity, etc.
And perhaps those campaigns were not commercially successful.
Now, do I think that commercial outcomes justify any kind of campaign that implies anything out there just because it drives sales?
Well, no, as a marketer, I am interested in driving business results.
Can you imagine?
There's people starving right now watching people complain about NAD.
There's people like dying in other countries.
They're like in war zones.
And what gets airtime is a NAD.
On top of this, this is a low-cut top for TV.
Women just have the audacity.
She's beautiful, to be honest.
She's a very pretty woman.
I see why she's there.
She's barely talked.
She doesn't have to, right?
That's an upper-tier e-girl in terms of looks.
I would put her as like whoever this is, I deem her the new hottest e-girl on the right.
I deem her.
But also thinking about the ethics of representation and what kind of messages are young girls and children, frankly, consuming when they log on to their Instagram or TikTok and keep swiping.
And again, I said I take a more balanced approach to this.
I do not think it was intentional propaganda, as I have already said, but I do think that there are some codes within this marketing media communications, which is a unit of media, that are concerning in the way that they are implying that good gray genes are represented by someone like Sweeney.
Now, other co-panelists mentioned if another particular model of other kind of background or maybe multiple models were featured, there's likely would not be an uproar.
And that is because that kind of messaging carries cultural baggage, as I've mentioned.
What is cultural baggage?
I'm German and Irish.
What would be my cultural baggage?
Is reflective of the history of racism in this country?
And the way that she's been.
Because she's hang on, hang on, hang on.
Because she's white.
Hang on.
Hang on.
Because she's white and got blue eyes.
Is that why?
Because the verbal cues surrounding this terminology that carries a lot of cultural weight, such as offspring, gray genes, are paired with these other signifiers that are very specific: blue, blue eyes, blonde skin, etc.
And you have to understand that this is just a reality of how our brains work.
We move through life and we develop these conceptual and mental maps.
So you don't like it because she's white and got blue eyes.
All right.
That's not very dismissive.
Hang on, hang on.
Yeah, because if it was a black girl, they wouldn't care.
They'd be like, yes, Queen, especially if she was fat.
If she was fat, she would be on like the cover of a magazine.
Hang on, we're going to go in the right order.
I'm going to ask Deborah Lee.
Deborah Lee, I mean, ultimately, we got to the real problem.
She's white and got blue eyes.
Since when was that a crime to use a white blue-eyed woman who's hot and an actress to sell products?
Happens all the time, as it does with black actresses, all the time.
I'd say somewhere in the last five to six years, the oldest marketing ploy from the beginning of time is sex sales.
Every single person knows that.
And the problem with the left and everybody who's offended by this is they extrapolate.
It's not just this situation.
They hear somebody say, I love being thin.
And they go, oh, so you hate fat people?
Sidney Sweeney is saying she has good genes, which there's a lot that goes into having good genes we don't know about.
Maybe she doesn't have any history of family illness.
Maybe she has very low visceral fat.
Like you said, Pierce, great skin, didn't need braces.
It's much more than just having blonde hair and blue eyes, okay?
But to say that Sidney Sweeney has good genes means now we're saying that all these other people don't have good genes.
Relax.
Why do you have to always get offended by every single thing?
Nobody's saying that.
And let's just go back to what was it, Abercrombie that had the shirtless models outside of all of their offices.
It's the same people that are offended by the Sidney Sweeney ad that were dreaming and praying to end up with one of those shirtless models.
Society has progressed too far in the sense where now every single person is doing everything to find value.
Okay, Marna Monhill.
I remember a model called Tess Holiday being the cover of Cosmopolitan magazine.
She was 305 pounds and five foot two.
And the whole piece was about how incredibly empowering this was and what an example of body positivity it was.
When in fact, it was an unbelievably dangerous promotion of morbid obesity.
That's what it was.
Because if you're 305 pounds at five foot two, you are dangerously fat and you are more likely than not to die from the repercussions of being that size.
And yet the woke left went, look at this.
Isn't this fantastic?
And yet here you have a model who's not super slim, Sidney Sweeney.
She's got a very rounded, normal body, right?
She's not like a sticking sex supermodel.
And she looks hot and she's wearing jeans and she happens to be white and happens to have blue eyes.
To try and turn this into a racial thing or to compare it to the Nazis, even by woke standards, seems to me ridiculous.
Okay.
first, just for clarity, Sidney Sweeney is a size zero.
So even when we say that someone is a normal size, that suggests that the- Yeah, but what's wrong with being a size zero?
It's better than being a size 14, which is like the average dress size of American women.
Average person is a size zero.
The average person, the average woman in this country is not.
So at all moments when we make these observations that seem neutral, we're actually assigning a value.
So if I am a size eight as a woman and you just said on national TV as the most important, coolest, most handsome host in the history of television, if you say that it's normal to be a size zero, then yeah, when I'm a size eight, now I feel like something's wrong with my body.
Similarly, so she doesn't look normal to you, Sidney Sweeney.
She looks normal.
38 seconds, by the way, for interruption.
Great.
You're on a new record.
I think she looks normal.
You're really touchy today.
I think.
Okay, Piers is kind of gaslighting this guy.
I hate it.
I've gone to the opposite panels.
They don't let you talk.
I've had, you know, similar experiences.
Teasing you, Piers.
I'm just very, very upset about the world, you know, and I need a hug from you, and you're not in the studio with me.
Well, there are more important things to be worried about than Sydney Bloody Sweeney.
Trust me.
Honestly.
There is war raging around the world.
There is famine.
Right.
And you're getting your knickers in a massive twist about Sydney Speaker.
That's actually where I'm going.
Piers, that's actually where I'm going.
Right.
I mean, this conversation started with.
How'd you know her dress size, but not her hair color?
Because I just Googled it when he said it and it thumbs up because I just typed Sidney Sweeney dress size and it says Sidney Sweeney typically wears a size 23, which is equivalent to US size zero.
I looked it up to make an argument while he was talking.
Google is amazing in that way.
I had no desire to do it with the ad because it wasn't my point.
As a scholar, my point was to see how the audience receives something, not how I at a meta level can look.
She's not a size zero, by the way.
She's definitely not.
As a woman, she's not a size zero.
She is not a size.
Yeah, I would have guessed like a four.
Zero.
No, do you know what?
She might be because they've been making the sizes bigger for fat women because fat women can't cope.
They keep getting fatter.
And so instead of losing weight, they make the sizes.
They like inflate the sizes.
So now I'd like to respond to the actual point.
I concede.
Whatever size she is, my point is to say any woman has a normal size.
It assigns a value.
And I'm not saying.
White guilt is millennial BS.
Right or wrong about your value.
I'm saying we're always articulating values when we say things.
Putting a 300-pound woman on a cover is not in and of itself a problem.
If I put a 300-pound woman on a cover and say, that's the healthy body, I'm implicitly saying that other bodies are not.
And to your point, I think that might be problematic.
At the beginning of this conversation, Deborah, I think your name is Deborah.
Forgive me if I got your name wrong.
I think you're even polite to the haughty.
He would bitch out Jedediah, but the hot girl, like, look at her.
Look at her.
She's so pretty.
He's, he's the men are charmed.
That's why we start to hate these young broads.
I mean, I hate her.
You know what I mean?
Because I got to go through all this work of being nice and like, you know, learning to debate and all this stuff.
Look at her.
Look at that smile.
Look at it.
I mean, she looks beautiful.
It's like, yeah, screw you.
The river to the sea, right?
The river to the sea is not in and of itself.
Those words for me are not genocidal.
I know they're not genocidal, but to you, you hear it differently.
Why?
Because you're looking at history.
You're looking at context.
You're looking at intent.
You're looking at action.
And you're making a different judgment.
Your judgment's wrong.
That statement is absolutely not.
God's needs to be free.
No, it's not.
It comes from the literal Hamas.
But I'm going to see my friend aside all Jews.
No, I'm not looking at context.
I'm looking at the literal Hamas charter and what these people do.
That would be context.
Deborah.
Okay.
Again, allow me to finish.
I never interrupted you.
The Hamas charter would be context.
That's my point.
You're not looking just at the words.
You're looking at other pieces of evidence.
That's called context.
You're literally making my point.
My point to you is.
Words have meaning.
Words don't have meaning.
And so do, listen to me.
Words do have meaning.
And the meaning isn't just about literal decoding.
It's also about the meanings that are encoded into words.
It's about the history.
It's about other factors.
And I'm telling you, the same way you're telling me as a Jewish person, there are certain words, certain images, certain tropes that impact you because of the history of anti-Semitism.
I'm telling you that that same history of white supremacy that makes anti-Semitism so ugly also makes anti-black racism so ugly.
I didn't tell you I was offended by this argument.
You keep saying, you say, get a job and stop being offended.
I think we all have jobs here.
And I don't think any of us are offended per se.
I think.
I wasn't speaking just to you.
I was speaking to the people offended by this.
If you're time to sit and make TikTok videos complaining about a woman in an ad, you probably don't have bigger things to care.
I like that comment.
I like her.
She's spicy too.
She's got a little sass.
There's much bigger problems.
I agree.
All right.
Let me bring it.
Let me bring in Jenna Diet.
Let me bring in Jenna Diet for the final word on this.
It seems to me, you know, if I honestly, if I was running a marketing campaign for a big company now involved in, I don't know, leisure or beauty or fashion, whatever, I would just be deliberately goading the woke left now in a smart, funny way.
I would just do it.
I would do it all the time.
I would let them throw all their toys out of the stroller and then just increase sales and just laugh my head off because this censorious puritanical bullshit is over.
I've written a book called Woke is Dead, which is coming out in October.
I think it'll be a massive bestseller because you know what?
People are sick of it.
They are sick of being told what they can laugh at, what they can admire.
They're sick of being told they can't look at a beautiful white woman without being accused of being a Nazi.
It's ridiculous.
You are 100% correct.
And every company should do that because there is a group of woke leftists who are outraged by just about everything that sit on the sidelines and they just wait.
They wait for an opportunity and then they jump and they go completely insane.
And the vast majority of the country does not feel that way.
The vast majority of the country does not see everything through a lens of how they can be offended.
They looked at the ad, they saw a young hawk girl.
They said, oh, she does have good genes.
They laughed about it.
They went and had a day.
They went and had a normal day.
They didn't get all the dance sit inside.
And the bottom line is it's so interesting to me because these people think they're somehow these woke leftists think they're winning.
They think that by getting all riled up, they are winning the game and they don't realize that they're constantly.
Well, you know the irony.
You know the irony, Jennadiah?
Here's the irony.
The irony is in their attempt to portray everybody as white supremacists, the woke left have an inbuilt superiority complex.
They think they are better and superior to everybody else, right?
And it doesn't matter whether the woke left or white, black, whatever.
They have an inbuilt superiority.
And it is, and it is, now I'm afraid it doesn't work because we've now seen Donald Trump get re-elected by defying everything they stood for.
But not only that, Piers, what's important to note is that the people who created this ad were not creating a racist ad.
But the people who saw racism and eugenics and Nazism in this ad, maybe they should self-examine.
Why do they see everything through the lens of race?
Why are they outraged by this ad with a blonde-haired, blue-eyed girl?
But if you put, you know, a black girl, if you put a Spanish girl, there would be no outrage.
Why is everything that they see?
No one in the history of the West has ever argued that black people have superior genes.
The Enlightenment era was still on the people.
People have been arguing.
have superior genes, the impression of aesthetics is good on the idea that wet people have superior bodies, every piece of aesthetics of philosophy Mark is untrue.
What you're saying is untrue.
There has been a massive, hold on a second.
There has been a massive battle in this country about obesity for the longest time.
You now have the condemnation of thin people.
You have the elevation of obese people.
You have campaigns, Cosmopolitan Magazine, magazines across the country saying fat is healthy.
Fat is the new skinny.
All the time.
No one says a peep.
People in your camp do not say a peep about that because it's not a list of things that outrages them.
This annoys all the right people.
This is a thin woman.
It annoys me.
I'm not talking about skinny, man.
Man, ma'am.
Just hear me out.
I'm not talking about it.
I'm not afraid of the same conversation, Mark.
You just happen to be outraged about something different today.
Today, it's about race and eugenics.
Tomorrow, it's about obesity.
There's always something for the woke left to be outraged about because they're always offended.
They've always got some fannies in a bunch because they're so dawn-sensitive about everything.
They are not representative of the public.
Last word to you, Mark Lamont Hill, otherwise you'll be supporting me.
I'm not outraged.
Number one.
Number two, I point out a history of white supremacist logics in cultures that show that white lives, white bodies, white experiences are better.
And you pointed to the recent influence.
Please let me finish.
You pointed to the influence of fat people on ads as a piece of counter evidence.
I'm not disputing your argument about fat people.
I'm not disputing your argument about scat people.
All I'm saying is that I know what you're saying.
You said it.
I'm saying, no, let me say it.
I'm saying that there's a history of white people being superior in terms of how we understand them in this country.
So you're only mad at Sydney's wife.
Let me ask you this question.
Let me ask him a question.
If a group of people had said, hey, I believe that this ad is anti-Semitic, would you have said, similarly, get over yourself, stop fighting anti-Semitism everywhere?
Would you have said that?
Yes.
I would have said that.
100% I would have done.
Would you say?
You're just cooking them.
They're just cooking.
This is the dumbest argument.
I hate that this stuff gets views.
There's some stuff as a YouTuber you have to cover.
And you just think, who cares?
Do you know what I mean?
You're like, all right, this is trending.
I got to do it.
But who cares?
If anything, I think Sidney Sweeney wasn't hot enough.
I think we need to get Megan Fox's back.
Said I would have done.
We've got to leave it there.
I think you're consistent and wrong on all the issues.
I think you're consistent.
You're wrong all the time, but you're consistent.
All right.
Let's see.
I think there's one more debate panel I wanted to see.
Let me see what the, let me go to his page and see the most popular clips.
Let's do this one.
Why do you want these people to destroy your theology if you're Catholic, sir?
They're going out of your theology on the public stage.
What is wrong with you?
You're not a Catholic.
You're a pretender.
What is wrong with it?
Give me a break.
What is wrong with you that you're Sydney left?
Ernest Owens off the charts woke.
Wow.
Okay.
That just made me laugh.
I shouldn't probably have read that out, but it was very funny.
That's how you're all seen.
That's how you're all seen.
And it made me chuckle.
Let's start with you, Andrew Wilson.
So from a musical perspective, I've read a lot of reviews this morning about this.
Full disclosure, I'm good friends with Andrew Lloyd Weber.
I think he's a complete genius.
Jesus Christ Superstar, when it came out in the 70s, was deliberately designed to be very provocative, as we know, but it's never been as provocative as this performance.
What is your response to it?
I mean, from a musical perspective, it's been heralded as a great triumph, but obviously many feel it's crossed the line.
Oh, and I've seen that play.
Oh my gosh, my friend directed this play.
Oh, it's been heralded as a great triumph, has it?
When are they going to do Muhammad on ice?
So what they do is they're banking on the fact that there is Christian pacifism and that we won't give the sorts of violent pushback that they would get if they were mocking other religions.
So they kind of bank on that.
What this is, is this is homosexual infiltration, once again, of the church.
This is what they do.
This is all they do.
This is a glad award, nose Ferratu looking chick.
And here's what they did.
They didn't just get everything wrong.
They didn't even include the resurrection, any of the Christian themes.
The whole thing is a total mockery.
And who cares if it is kind of woke?
Friend of mine directed it, so he's really cool, but yeah, it's pretty woke.
Bunch of liberal, you know, a bunch of liberals write up.
Oh, this was great.
This was a musical masterpiece.
Of course they're going to say that.
That's what they do.
That's how propaganda works.
This entire thing was designed to attack Christianity, and it's always that way.
That's the way it always is.
Ernest, I saw you perform one of the great eye rolls in uncensored history just then, but I do think Andrew has a point.
There's absolutely zero chance that Hollywood would have staged a musical like this, which openly mocked the tenets of Islam, for example.
I think that Jesus Christ superstar in its creation, the whole title, the whole have you ever seen it?
Have you actually seen it, Andrew?
Like, if you actually seen it, everything that you're saying would actually be argued that it's already been done.
Like, no, no children are watching this to learn about Christ.
The type of people that you're thinking of that would be offended by this would probably not even spend the kind of money to watch this show live and would not have the interest to watch it just because they know that it is an adult-themed musical that is meant to be provocative since it was in its inception for decades.
It's meant to mock Christianity, right?
I mean, you can say that's meant, it's meant to mock Christianity.
Just be honest about it.
Just be honest and say, Andrew, it's meant to mock Christianity.
It's not for you Christians to watch.
We're mocking you.
That's what we're doing.
That's what the point is.
Well, I mean, if you have a taste for satire and humor, you didn't think it was mocking when I saw it.
I can't remember being offended.
I just remember the music was really good.
Maybe it was a different one.
I don't know.
Appreciate that as a Christian.
I think a lot of people who know Cynthia Rivo sings gospel phenomenally well.
She's an incredible singer and she's done several different types of shows, and she has a range of that.
And so, for anybody who wants to take this seriously and make a culture war out of it, I mean, is this the case for council culture?
I don't think the argument here is that Christians are allergic to humor.
I think the argument here is that it's clear, it's clear that you would never do this with the Dalai Lama, for example, or with Muhammad, and because you'd get killed.
There's one group, I've pissed off a lot of groups in my day, but if there's one group that I am not a fan of pissing off, that's I'm not even going to say their name because you guys scare me.
You do like religion, they're like, We're the religion of peace.
And I'm like, Then, why am I scared?
Why am I getting death threats?
Why am I scared?
Uh, for the fun.
Thank you, Corey.
I appreciate the donation.
I appreciate you.
So, I think that's where people take issue with it.
And actually, the original, the original Jesus Christ superstar was quite consistent with what happened in the Bible in terms of the theology behind it.
Um, this is just basically a bold black one.
I mean, they could have at least put a wig on her.
It's so weird seeing her put the crown of thorns on her head, and it's just based on this bold, shiny head.
Uh, they're clearly taking the mickey out of what actually happened.
And on the point about the homosexual infiltration, I'm sorry, I just thought I think the Catholic priests uh beat this this play there a few decades ago on that front.
Oh, did they?
Yeah, I don't know.
You know, they beat it like the public schools, like the public schools beat it, who have 10 or hundreds of times the rate of sexual molestation of children.
So, I, I, you know, when you, when you talk about uh, predators, for instance, guess what?
Predators go where their children are.
This is no exception for secular institutions like public schools.
So, I don't know why you people use this as a talking point, it's a terrible one.
That was really funny.
True, all right, Mike Nettis.
Let me bring it, let me bring in Mike Nellis.
I'm gonna say this: you know, as a as a they're claiming white people can't say great genes is exposing their inferiority complex.
YouTube won't let me put white plus guilt together.
Wow, that's bullshit as a Christian.
I'm a Catholic, right?
I do think one of the best things about my religion is that we can laugh at ourselves, right?
We can self-lampoon.
I often laugh at some of the absurdities of my own church, for example.
And the fact that Christians have a better tolerance level for mockery than other religions is something to be proud of, isn't it?
Well, I think all the comparisons to Islam are really silly stuff.
And I'm going to say this as a practicing Catholic: if your faith is so fragile that you're offended about a black woman playing Jesus Christ and Jesus Christ superstar, you've got bigger problems than what was going on in the culture war.
Second, we've heard a lot of, you know, frankly, some really weird comments about like homosexual infiltration of American society.
Like Andrew over there is complaining about people praying on children.
I haven't seen Andrew say anything about Donald Trump being in the Epstein files or releasing the Epstein files on here.
So I don't really think that's a red herring.
It's a little red herring.
Why do you want these people to destroy your theology if you're Catholic, sir?
They're going after your theology on the public stage.
They're taking out the resurrection, a romantic relationship between Jesus and Mary.
What is wrong with you?
You're not a Catholic.
You're a pretender.
What is Catholic?
Give me a break.
What is wrong with you that your faith is so weak that a play in high?
That's going to be commanded to defend your faith, sir, as a Catholic.
I'm defending my faith.
You're going to defend it by rolling over and letting them kick you while you're down, huh?
That's you.
That's you defending the faith of Christ.
My faith is in practice.
And my faith is not going online and complaining about musicals and making you're online complaining.
You're online complaining.
I was like, what are you doing now?
Right now.
And the thing is, you're a cat.
How dare Christians be offended?
What's wrong with you?
You're a cat.
God, Andrew, he can beat anybody at a debate.
Supposed to defend the faith?
Defend it.
I'll defend my faith.
Andrew, Andrew, let me jump in.
Let me jump in, Andrew, Andrew, did you...
Hang on, Mike.
I'll come back to you.
But just life of Brian, Andrew, Monty Python.
Did you find that funny?
Today's show is brought to you by I just thought we'd watch that for a little bit.
But we got through the reaction kind of quick today.
I wanted to think about any other updates.
Not really.
If you guys have any requests for stuff to react to this week, we're going to go back to normal programming tomorrow.
So we'll do like a call-in show.
It'll be at seven.
Thanks to everybody that donated today to the divorce documentary.