Jeff St. James, a Philadelphia-based therapist, debunks the "Black Pill" ideology while analyzing modern dating’s skewed dynamics—74% of women initiate divorce, 33–34% of men fail paternity tests, and Atlanta’s market favors "qualified" men (5–7 per woman). He predicts polygyny’s rise in 15 years due to declining marriage rates and critiques legal marriage as a flawed system, citing $200K custody battles and women’s transactional dating trends. St. James argues societal shifts, from OnlyFans normalization to abortion disparities, reveal deeper gender imbalances, urging men to focus on self-improvement over despair rather than embracing extremist narratives. [Automatically generated summary]
Most answered very quickly, no, because men are useless.
This headline from The Hill, it caught my eye.
Most young men are single.
Most young women are not.
Young men have fallen faster than any demographic in America over the last 40 years.
It's a different world now.
Like, we don't need men the way that they used to.
The future is female.
Men and women are drifting further apart, and society is crumbling because of it.
A fascinating debate has broken out about the value of marriage.
You've kind of got the TradCon versus Red Pill thing.
This men's rights crowd that sometimes just goes too far the other way.
You need to stop acting like grown boys and infants and actually become men.
Marriage is a bond and it's a sacred bond.
It's a machine designed to extract resources from you.
Now many of the red-pilled have taken the position that it's bad for men to get married.
Hannah Pearl Davis, or just pearly things.
One of the most controversial faces in all of the internet.
She goes on to say that marriage is a terrible deal for men.
Because if me and you were in a business contract, you would never sign a contract where I am paid to leave.
Gee, what could go wrong there?
74% or something of divorces are initiated by women.
Men have everything to lose, primarily their own children.
Men get killed by the courts and by divorce laws.
I had no idea that courts of family law were courts of equity, not courts of law.
Because in family court, you don't need evidence to accuse someone of abuse.
You need no evidence.
When you guys say get married young, a lot of these men don't know what they're signing up for, and you're not going to be there when their entire life falls apart.
I interview them on the other side.
I didn't meet my son until he was 15 months old.
How much did you spend trying to get him back?
The legal fees alone was about $200,000.
Before you know it, you're homeless.
You're literally just thrown out into the street.
We absolutely reinforce bad behavior from women.
Wives are taught to leave their husbands and then daughters grow up without their fathers.
Family is the foundation of society.
Every problem in society comes from single mother homes.
A lot of women will just chase this negative rabbit hole of happiness, endless happiness.
Feminism's biggest failures is it lies to women.
We tell women to date as many guys as possible.
We tell them to put off family into marriage.
You are allowed to leave your perfect husband.
You are allowed to end a relationship with a really great boyfriend.
Oh, freeze your ex, have an abortion.
What?
You're evil.
I don't think there's anything else in life that we actually ever go into preparing to fail.
Like if you have the mentality of this is going to go wrong and be pessimistic, naturally the outcome is going to be that it's going to fail anyway.
It's self-sabotage.
That's the thing.
Like women are so willing to leave marriages because they're not happy.
This is not about happiness.
The most important thing is the children.
And the problem is we have a modern society where it's me, me, me, my feelings, leave when I feel like it instead of doing what's best for the kids.
This myth that we live in an age of male privilege.
What is my male privilege?
They think, well, men have all the rights.
They have all the power.
Privilege, patriarchal system that we have.
Why doesn't our society care about men's rights?
I have no friends, no wife, and no social life.
Men are alone in this situation.
Men are homeless.
Men are thinking about eating guns.
I've seen so many men on the brink of suicide and they didn't do anything wrong.
How are you equal if the men are the ones that have to fight and die to defend the country?
The men are the ones that build and maintain all the infrastructure.
Women are helplessly dependent upon men.
The so-called deaths of despair from suicide, overdose, or alcohol, three times higher among men than among women.
Culture is telling men, you are no good.
You gotta get your act together.
I think men have failed themselves.
What kind of a man are you?
What kind of a woman are you going to attract?
If men are in trouble, so are women.
Everybody knows this is a huge problem, but nobody wants to admit it.
Every single woman at the table said they wanted a man.
500K, 500, 300K, 300K, 200K.
Am I crazy?
Everything is really set up against you to fail as a man.
If men make less than women, women don't want to marry them.
So, you know who wants more economically and emotionally viable men?
Women.
I don't want to be an independent woman anymore.
I don't want to be a strong, independent woman.
I'm overage.
When is it going to be my turn?
Where are we meeting the men that don't?
I can't keep having these same conversations.
The only simp here is you, Pearl.
You sent for women.
I think you sent for women.
She's a provocateur.
She says stupid stuff, but Pearl is right about this.
It's already happening.
It's just not out in the open yet.
Now it's just hookup culture is going to be our fairy tale ending because men don't want a wife and women can't find a husband.
The future, if everybody follows your path, is there is no future.
We're going to population decline and our economy goes into decline.
Civilization will crumble.
The American story does not end well.
This is an existential crisis failing young men.
What is going on, everybody?
Welcome to another episode of Pearl Daily.
For those of you that don't know, that is our documentary trailer.
So if you do want to donate, we are at, let me check, $31,967 raised.
So we're trying to raise $100,000 to put together our divorce documentary.
As you guys know, I have lost three Instagrams, seven TikToks, and I got demonetized on YouTube last year, although I am back now.
So we are raising money to finish the documentary.
So if you want to donate, the link is in the description.
All right.
So today I have a special guest joining us for an episode of the Sit Down.
So as you guys know, yesterday, we were reacting to this video of this guy just cooking.
He was just cooking these two feminists from Canada.
And I just thought, what better use of my time could it be to have him cook on an episode of the sit-down?
So welcome to the show, Jeff St. James.
We are so happy to have you here.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you for welcoming me.
So could you tell my audience a little bit about yourself?
You're relatively new on the scene.
Yeah, I actually started this podcasting journey about two and a half months ago.
And just being myself per usual, I did not anticipate a quarter million people in the last four days seeing my face and hearing my voice and having hundreds of thousands of people either loving me or hating me at this point.
So I'm here.
I'm a licensed therapist and trained certified trauma specialist.
And I've been working for over a decade in the field.
And I'm rep in Philadelphia.
Cool.
So what was it like going viral?
And because I know some people get kind of people can handle that amount of attention in different ways.
So how was it for you?
Yeah.
Honestly, I laughed at all the comments, good and bad.
Apparently, I'm Kevin Samuels 2.0.
I am gay.
I hate women.
And I'm a red pill therapist is what I've been apparently now identified as.
So apparently I'm all of these things.
But honestly, I don't take myself too seriously.
Even me getting into this space, I wasn't looking necessarily like get famous.
It was more so just bringing a slightly different perspective that I felt I wasn't really hearing in a lot of these types of conversations.
Yeah, well, you were really calm.
I was actually surprised how much they let you talk.
They never, I got to learn whatever the heck you did.
They never let me talk that much.
They always cut me off.
You know what?
I would say it's definitely the pool of the people you admire and kind of invite on at times.
They're the argumentative types.
These two ladies, they welcomed me.
They asked me, they came up with the topics.
They came up with the questions.
And I just, I just came in and did it.
Cool.
So now that you're labeled the red pill therapist, would you consider yourself red pill?
And how would you personally define it?
Sure.
Yeah.
I wasn't, I never thought I'd be identified in that way.
But in terms of all the ways in which people can kind of categorize me or categorize what I stand for in a lot of my arguments, sure.
I think a lot of what I stand for is probably red pill.
And the interesting thing is, there was a point in my life when I was definitely black pill.
And I've switched back over to the red pill side.
And I hope to convert you and all of your black pill listeners to come back over to the slightly less dark side.
Well, okay, so you want to convert me today?
Well, we'll get to that later.
So what is your opinion that on the current dating markets and intersexual dynamics between men and women?
Okay.
In terms of what's going on presently and how we got here, in my last interview, I kind of mentioned that the pill and birth control, sexual liberation, women entering the workforce in mass, and social media slash dating apps has really changed how we as human beings kind of see each other and the general trajectory of where we're heading as a civilization, especially in terms of Western cultures.
More or less, the end result is now that women have basically delayed motherhood and marriage, increased their chances of experiencing a lot of trauma and pain from the frequent relationships that don't work through their teens and 20s and possibly 30s, and also decreasing just the overall trust in each other, men and women, as well as increasing the perspective of just wanting transactional expectations on the other side.
We've now developed very false beliefs in terms of optionality of what's available whenever things don't just keep working out.
We can give up, we can leave relationships, we can get divorced.
And then that's pretty much led us to where we are, where we are declining as a civilization in terms of our birth rate.
So I think that's in essence what is going on at this point.
And do you think it's because of the pill or like, what do you think are the root causes behind it?
Each one of these things that I listed gave options to women that perhaps they didn't have or didn't have nearly as much as they did.
Sure, in the past, women could have gotten hangers and, you know, went in the back alley to kind of get that situation addressed.
But once it became more formalized in medical settings, it made their ability to be able to delay a lot of things that were typically done earlier for women and throughout human history.
They said, oh, I can wait till I'm my late 20s.
I can wait till my 30s to do this now.
And simultaneously, I can now have sex and choose my suitor.
So that was one way in which they kind of opened up the door for women specifically to start to approach dating and marriage differently.
Then when you had the sexual liberation movement, they were convinced that trying to do life like men, especially sexually, was going to have all of these significant benefits.
The consequence, unfortunately, is not only was it a rise and increase in STDs, a rise and increase in single mother households, but also probably a significant degree of dissatisfaction with women when it comes to their ability to be able to pair bond, their ability to remain satisfied, and always the comparisons of what's next or who's next or who could be better.
So yeah, I think that, you know, many of these, and then of course, we can't forget the social media and dating apps.
It's just convinced a generation of women specifically in the West that there's always a better alternative.
There's always a best option.
And that with the influx of the likes, the influx of the comments, the influx of men in their DMs, they're convinced that because there's so many of these men that want me, that I have all these options.
And the reality is they wouldn't sleep with most of those men.
They wouldn't be in relationships with most of those men.
But they've, in essence, kind of conflated all this attention I get on the outside with the reality of how few men I actually want and can actually end up with.
I think it almost reveals women don't like men as much as we originally thought.
Would you agree with that or do you disagree?
This is a tough one.
Because it's like the second you're like, do you want to kill their kids?
They're like, yep.
The second they're like, do you want to leave your husbands?
They're like, yup.
The second they're like, do you want to be moms?
Do you guys want to wait?
They're like, let me wait as long as possible.
You know, they say like revealed preferences versus stated preferences.
So like people say they want things, but if you look at like their actions, it's not like it's like the fat friend you keep taking to the gym.
And they're like, I want to lose weight.
And you're like, all right, come to the gym.
Pearl, first of all, you know, I got a job, right?
So I'm going to try to, I'm going to try to keep it.
What I would say in response to that, believe it or not, is that I do agree that with optionality, people's natures have definitely been revealed much more clearly.
But with that said, I don't know if I was a woman and I had this many options and the ability to get so much attention so early and so often that I wouldn't have potentially adopted much of that mindset too if I were in their shoes for at least a season.
The issue is, is actually not simply that it's revealed that women have the capacity to be just as grimy as men in some respects.
It also revealed that I think they saw something, it revealed something in women that I don't think most men factored in.
It was a secret before women could just say like, like that, oh, that was the women today, the past, we weren't like that.
And I'm like, yeah, grandma, because there's no smartphones.
Like, come on.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I don't buy that women.
And this is the difference.
I think the only difference between women today and women of the past is cameras, social media, and the ability for us to see it more readily available.
I think women have always done what they wanted to do and picked their best option that they thought they can get in terms of a spouse.
Very quickly might move on if a guy wasn't the right fit.
I think female dating strategies by default is definitely different than men's.
And I don't think that that changed as much as it probably got exacerbated with all these things that I mentioned.
Yeah, I agree.
The one thing I think you said that I might have a different opinion on, I don't think, I think you said women are like traumatized from sleeping around.
I don't really.
I think it's just like a get out of jail free card they use later.
I'm like, you did not look traumatized when you were like hanging out with Tyrone, Chad, Gavin.
You seem fine.
Yeah, yeah.
Then you're going to like cry later, but I think it's just so they could get a husband.
Cause like, obviously, they can't be like, oh, I really enjoyed that.
It was a lot of fun.
So yeah, as a trauma, yeah, sorry to cut you off.
As a trauma therapist, I actually know what trauma is.
So it's very fascinating to see women and people specifically that overuse trauma and everybody that I was with in the past as a narcissist.
Like I actually know what these terms mean and know how to measure them.
So when I mean it, what I actually mean is that, yeah, they actually increase their chances to experience trauma because you keep dealing with so many men who you haven't probably vetted properly.
So yeah, but a lot of times when they're using those words, it's not actually applying to the case.
I know they don't want to vet them properly.
You know what I mean?
They just want six pack hats.
Okay, so tell me what you mean by qualified and unqualified men.
So yeah, in my last interview with the ladies at a Sharing My Truth podcast, I had mentioned that there were men that were considered qualified and there were men that were considered unqualified and that their experiences with women tends to be radically different.
The men that I would say are qualified are typically men that have good to great income.
They meet a certain height requirement, typically six feet or above.
They're in fairly decent shape, fairly charismatic, confident, desired by multiple women and respected by multiple men.
Those are the men that I would say, and most people would kind of identify as quote unquote qualified to have options with women, to be able to push off commitment, to be able to sleep with multiple women simultaneously at the same time and never have to lead towards marriage.
These are the quote unquote men that qualify to get access to women's sex, softness, love, intimacy, et cetera.
Whereas the men that are quote unquote unqualified, they're usually missing multiple of those checkboxes, if not all of them.
So, yep, go ahead.
Where would you put men like, because there's certain men in just certain environments where they're broke, but they get a lot of women.
Like, you know how it is, the salsa instructor, like the club promoter.
You know what I mean?
Where would you put them as qualified or unqualified if like they don't have the money, but they still get women?
You know, the bartender in LA, they got all the actors.
But yeah, sorry, go ahead.
Yeah.
For men that don't check off all the boxes, you typically have to be exceptional, at least one or two.
Okay.
The men that are unqualified are pretty much not doing anything in any of these areas significantly to like kind of stand out.
So for instance, the guy that's really, really tall and is like pretty charismatic and has nothing else of the things I kind of listed, he'll do well because he's exceptionally tall and he knows he's a good talker, right?
So we see it.
Whereas the guys who can't talk to women, the guys who are not that tall, the guys that don't make any money, the more it gets to a point where she either friends ones you or doesn't even acknowledge you.
Yeah.
You ever meet a guy that gets a girls to pay his rent?
I've seen that.
Oh, I'm jealous of them guys.
Jealous.
Can you talk more about attraction triggers and define what they are?
Yeah.
So they're different, obviously, on an individual by individual level, but the things that I just listed are typically from the female perspective, typically some of the key cues that they're looking for.
So from an attraction trigger perspective, women typically don't want to get with the guy that they can't sense that other women also think is attractive.
So the problem that we're kind of having in terms of like this whole topic and this discussion that's going on when you think about it is like these women are only picking men that they believe other women want and trying to ensure and guarantee that that guy is going to be monogamous and with them for the rest of their lives.
So their attraction triggers are putting them in a small pool, dealing with a small pool of men that they're often being disappointed with as a result.
Whereas on the flip side with men, many of their attraction triggers, a lot of women confuse that because they assume that they would be the same.
Oh, I make so much money.
I make this much money.
I have this degree.
I got one car.
I got this.
I got that.
None of those things apply to men, especially men that have those things.
So men, many of our attraction triggers are softness, femininity, nurturing, the desire to potentially start a family, a willingness to be able to listen and learn from him and not feel like she has to constantly lead or dominate.
Those are a lot of the things that men are typically looking for and particularly attracted to.
So for whatever reason, it seems like men, a lot of men aren't checking off the boxes in terms of attraction triggers that women are typically looking for.
And unfortunately, in the West, that's probably true to an extent because a lot of the women, unfortunately, in this country and in Canada and in UK and in Australia and other Western countries, they don't desire the need to develop those things that men are attracted to.
They just project what they want onto the man and expect him to expect the same from them.
You know what's interesting?
Because I've interviewed a thousand women on my show.
And the women that I met that I would say had the highest femininity, there was always like a reason.
There's always a but.
Like it was very necessary.
Like they either highly struggled with weight or had children.
So it seemed like it was kind of made out of like necessity.
And I was in London, so I was interviewing women from all over the world.
But I would find if there was ever like really, really high femininity, there would always be a catch.
Is that what you're seeing?
Is that what you've seen?
Or maybe you've seen other things.
It's a mix.
It's a mix.
So sometimes it's actually because of religious upbringing and them being very sheltered and still sheltered.
Because typically, and you'll see it, and you've probably talked about it on your show.
There's definitely instances where they had a great father that was very caring and very protective.
And, you know, before you knew it, they ended up going to college and all of that went out the window.
Right.
So yeah, sometimes life, life humbles them.
Sometimes it's because of their background and what they're still remaining in.
I definitely agree that it's rarer to find in Western countries for sure.
But I've also experienced women who tend to stay to themselves and are not really in the mix.
And I don't want to say that they're female loners, but they normally won't catch the eye of most men unless they just happen to be in the second proximity.
Yeah.
Of the men that you said are like able to cheat in your experience, what percent do?
So not what you've read, not what you've seen online, like in your personal, what you've seen in real life.
If I had to put a genuine true number on it, I would think 30 to 40% of men probably have cheated.
And this is going to be one of the first shocking things I'm going to say on your show.
I think women cheat far more.
Oh, yeah.
Far more.
They're better cheaters.
They're more secretive about it.
They don't get the same punishments for doing that, doing it like men will.
So yeah.
And even when they do cheat and they admit it to each other, they don't view their cheating the same way they view men's cheating.
So this is why they can still remain friends with homegirls that they knew were doing all this stuff on the side.
Whereas for a man to do it, they had to destroy his entire life and character and legacy as a result.
So yeah, and this is the other thing.
When you're a guy that other women, when you're young or older, that's pretty attractive enough to kind of be around women enough, you'll be the guy that they're cheating with.
And you'll start to be like, oh my gosh, like this, how common is this?
And you always feel bad and you're like, man, I hope I'm never that guy.
And you learn like these guys will never know.
A lot of these guys would never, ever, ever know.
So I absolutely think that probably 30 to 40% of men cheat or have cheated.
And I think that number is probably 50 to 60% of women.
And I'm honestly probably being conservative when I say that.
Yeah.
And that doesn't include like messages and like, like, I'm assuming you're just limiting it to physical cheating, right?
If you included women having like a work husband or something else, it would probably be even 80 or 90 percent.
I don't know about 80, 90 percent, but what I have observed is that there are other things that I've seen the double standard when the things that they will go off on a man for in terms of cheating or looking for attention validation outside the relationship, they have no problem receiving it on their end.
If they see that their man, their boyfriend, their husband is liking another woman's picture, they will freak out.
But the idea of them making their profile private, they're like, why would I do that?
He's controlling.
So they just see these things like totally different.
Like people liking their bikini pictures that are not women, they just was like, that's just normal.
But him liking a woman who's half naked or in a bikini, it's a problem.
So I don't think that they typically see their cheating and their seeking validation outside the relationship in quite the same way.
So that's why I actually think the numbers are somewhat skewed to be a little bit higher.
And in your experience, who's more likely to forgive cheating, men or women?
Women, but I think women and men are in similar territory with that.
I think it's only the men who aren't operating from a scarcity mindset that have no problem with being like, get out.
I'm good.
I will never see or talk to you again.
Only the men that know that they can easily replace her typically will do that.
Most men, if they know, you know, it's going to be very difficult to replace her.
I have all this other stuff going on.
They'll just kind of endure and try to go to therapy and try to work it out.
Whereas a lot of women, despite the horrible stats in terms of how much they initiate breakups and divorces, oftentimes it's not after the first time.
It's usually after repeated offenses that they eventually get to that point where they get jaded, they change their feelings, and then they start planning their escape when the whole guy thinks that we've moved on from it.
I think that there, and I want to see if you agree.
I think there's alpha and beta cheating.
There's women that get cheated on by guys with options and they'll usually stick it out, but there's nothing worse than a woman getting cheated on by a guy who she thinks, who she thinks can't.
Those are like the biggest crash outs I've seen.
And I want to know if you agree or disagree.
I never, listen, I never described it or conceptualized it in that way.
But now that I think about it, it does make sense that there seems to, why is it that so many of her exes that are the cheaters and the abusers, she'll go through all this stuff with these guys.
And then it's the guy that's the good guy, one infraction, and he's gone.
She's done.
Yeah.
So there, yeah, I didn't describe it in that way.
I think I'm going to steal that from you.
It's like Jeff Bezos's wife.
Like, because she, like, obviously, you know, when they were, they got together, he was like the nerdy kid.
You know, and now he's cheating.
She's like, no, because she doesn't see who he is now.
Like, she doesn't see who he is now.
Like, she sees, she still sees the guy she, like, started with.
I don't know.
Yeah.
Is, is the woman he's with now, is that his current, is that his first wife or is this the second wife?
No, this is the second.
He cheated on his first wife with her.
Okay.
So the second wife, all I, the only image I have of her, forgive me for this, but like it was when they were on a red carpet and Leonardo DiCaprio was standing in front of the two of them and seeing her face marveling at this man in front of her boyfriend slash husband was like fascinating man.
I'm like, he is a billionaire and she's still gawking at this other dude.
I'm like, oh, ain't none of us safe, man.
That woman has to be studied.
Like it's just Will Smith, Jeff Bezos, Steph Curry.
It just doesn't seem to matter how high a guy gets.
A woman will humble him by accident, by accident sometimes.
It's amazing to see.
No, if you look at the last wife's dating history, it's like had a kid with an NFL player, then broke up with him, married 100 million, then broke up with him and married a billionaire.
And I'm like, she still has the ability to secure rings, even though she has two different baby daddies and she's like 55.
She collected them rings like Infinity Stones.
Yeah, that's what I said.
I said, you know what?
There's some women that you don't know what the hell they got because they're clearly, she must gluck or something.
I don't know.
She got that thing on her.
That's all I'm known.
She got that thing.
I don't know.
Okay.
So the next topic we're going to talk about is passport, bros.
What is your opinion on men that go overseas to date?
Do you think that's a good idea, a bad idea?
What's your general take on it?
I'm actually, believe it or not, fairly neutral because first of all, these are grown men that can do whatever they want with their money and their time and their energy.
But with that said, I want men that are doing it to be very intentional and cautious with the countries that they're doing that in.
Because a lot of times when men put themselves in these situations, I know that men are going for all hosts of different reasons.
Some to find a feminine woman who they can build a life and family with, some because they just want to do sexual tourism, some just for the sake of being able to have fun during trips.
I get the whole nine, right?
All these different reasons and rationales and justifications for doing it.
Cool.
My issue and concern is twofold.
One, men have to recognize that what do you think the men that are in some of these countries, especially the countries where your dollar goes further, how do these men feel about you?
And you have to be cautious as more and more men that are coming from your area are doing the same thing.
These men will start to get more tribal and possessive about seeing all of these foreigners coming into their territory.
It's almost like a sexual form of gentrification.
Like it's a thing where people start seeing you creeping in and you could actually start putting yourself a little bit at risk.
So make sure that you're kind of being safe with the areas and environments that you're doing and putting yourself in.
And then number two, although it's fine to do that, and it is what it is, I do wonder if there's men that haven't figured out how to get some of the experiences that they're getting over there back here.
My issue is, is like, I'm in the camp that like, I've learned that if you can, if you can talk to the most beautiful women in one country, you can effectively do it everywhere.
The difference is really just the expectations of what is granted.
So these women in other countries can actually be just as forward and straight up front about what it is from a transactional standpoint they want from you.
The difference is they're just softer and more feminine when they do it.
They still want something from you.
They're not just having sex with you guys for free.
They're not like, oh, he's American.
Cool.
Let me let you smash.
It's really about like you're still paying in some way, shape, or form.
I'm not going to use Myron's quote of the whole was that all women are gold diggers necessarily, but they all, 99% of them don't want you to come with nothing to the table when you're approaching them.
So if you're going to do that abroad, be safe about it.
Be smart about it and do you.
Could you argue, and I just have, I'm just, this is a thought I'm playing with.
When women are the most valuable, they almost gold dig the least because that's when women will sleep with like anybody when they're young, like the bartender.
It's like when we get older, then we have like money standards.
But like what 18 year old really um I don't see them gold digging as much or do you see something different?
No, no, and this is kind of relates to like Rallo and other podcasters, the Manosphere, uh, mountaintop uh perspective of like women don't typically truly understand what a decline from the mountaintop where on the mountaintop, they start at the top, uh, 18 years old, men their age, men in their 20s, men in their 30s, and potentially men in their 40s are all of a sudden checking for her.
She didn't have to do anything to earn it.
She's just now seen as valuable.
She could put it, depending on how beautiful she is, she could get access to athletes, doctors, lawyers, celebrity men, really wealthy people, and she didn't have to do anything to accomplish it.
And when you're born into something like that and it's reinforced for your first 10 to 12 years worth of adulthood, I'm not shocked that many of them struggle with not seeing, it takes them a while to realize like it's not, I'm not getting as much attention as I used to.
And as I'm getting older, many of the men that are younger than me, I don't want.
And many of the men that are my age are starting not to check for me.
It takes them a while for it to really, really click and hit in.
And usually it's when men stop offering drinks as much, when they stop approaching them as much.
And probably in the, I know, I know the telltale sign when they are in a room and a younger, more fit, beautiful woman walks in the room and she no longer exists to the men, the other men in the room.
That is usually when it starts to hit them.
Yeah, I agree.
So tell me the story of your dating apps in Atlanta and Chicago and how many likes you got.
And what does that story tell us about modern society?
So this story I have, I don't know why it's blowing up so much, but back in 2020, I was on a couple of dating apps.
I was on Bumble, which is how I ended up meeting my wife.
But at the time, I think we were only two weeks into knowing each other.
I still had BLK, which is a black dating app up on my phone as well.
And early, early 2020, I had to do a layover flight to Chicago.
And I had to fly to Atlanta, sat in the airport for two hours, and then ended up in Chicago and got off the plane.
And so this was only about two and a half hours of downtime.
And when I got in the car, I turned my phone on and I actually checked the app and the app I forgot was on and it was going by my geolocation.
And when I opened up my phone and opened up that app, after two hours in Atlanta and about 20 to 30 minutes in Chicago, I had about 72 to 74 women that had initiated and matched up with me from those two cities within two and a half hours.
Almost 75 women.
And that is a reflection of two things.
One, the market is skewed for men that meet and check off certain requirements.
If a lot of women think that you're fairly educated, if you carry yourself a certain way, if your profile, if you know how to dress your profile up a certain way, and if they can glean what you say you do for a living and potentially how much you make, if you land in a city, God forbid, if you stay in the city, you have a massive advantage over 80 plus percent of the men that's already there.
So just landing in the airports, not even walking around, I had almost 80 women within a two and a half hour time span.
Now, mind you, I'm not a celebrity.
I'm not a model.
I'm not rich or even super rich.
And if those are my numbers, can you imagine the guys that actually live there?
The guys who are wealthy, the guys who are athletes, it's probably in the thousands.
And the reason why that story is so interesting is because as women become more selective and believe that their optionality is unlimited of all the options and choices I have, they don't really realize that when you're not your best version of yourself, the guy who gets that type of attention doesn't have to tolerate it, doesn't have to commit, and will very quickly replace you with no hesitation or trouble.
And they don't realize that often until it's too late when they're at a space and point where they're going to have much more difficulty having children, not having access to the same men that they may have had before.
And worse, they may be in a position where for the first time they have to reevaluate if I am going to get married, if I am going to settle down, it has to be with a man that wasn't my first, second, or third choice.
And how did your matches compare?
Because I think Tinder's been on the market for 10 years now.
So how did your matches compare from like today or Ben, when you said you were 30 to like when you were 20?
Or would that have been before?
Were you on the apps before that?
No, no, I actually, I had come out of a previous relationship before that.
So I, you know, I had gotten married around 25, gotten divorced around 29.
And 30, I'm back out there in the streets.
And, you know, I hadn't been on dating apps before that.
So this was my first time really trying dating apps.
And I'm 30 by this point.
And I was like, whoa, I didn't realize it was this easy.
But what I didn't realize is that my experience wasn't every man's experience.
I learned that over time with observation that some guys got way crazier numbers than me.
And women, by doing this, where men didn't have to pay a dowry, they don't have to meet your family.
They don't have to go to your church or your religious synagogue of some kind.
They have to do almost the bare minimum of nothing other than being funny, sounding cool and looking good to get access to your body and potentially get you to give them a kid.
They created a market, probably unknowingly, where men that can do that are now, men that look like me are now having body counts and men that look way better than me are now having body counts that's rivaling kings during medieval time.
Yeah.
And you're expecting those men, all of those men that you want to want to be not only with you, but only you for the rest of your life and theirs.
Interesting.
And so what was that like for you?
Because I'm sure getting out of a, and I don't know, I'm not going to put words in your mouth.
So I'm not going to say this was your experience, but I know it's common for men to be taken for granted in their marriages.
And so I always wonder what it's like to like almost beg or like, you know, not maybe I don't want to say that, but like be in a position where you're trying to work it out with a woman that doesn't appreciate you to going to the streets.
And it's like, all these women are ready to go.
I don't know if that was your experience so you could correct me, but I'm curious what that would be.
I honestly genuinely look at it through the lens of, and, you know, to protect her and how that past went.
I look at it.
I look at the past so much in terms of my fault, my role and how things unfolded.
I look at it now through the lens of I ignored red flags, both in herself and me.
And I was kind of that guy in college and settled with somebody who I thought I could be a good guy with and I could be the dutiful guy.
And the thing that a lot of men is terrified about with marriage, unfortunately, happened to me.
You get into these relationships and the version of woman that you thought you were getting, they change.
And, you know, before you know it, I had the experience that a lot of men unfortunately ended up experiencing, which is the loneliest I ever felt in my life was when I was married.
And was it like a weight off your shoulders when you got divorced?
Like, did you feel free?
Oh, God.
I will touch on that and definitely my own content for sure, but no, it was, it was the opposite.
Because when you go from trying to be a city boy and doing your thing and having fun and it's different women every week to, all right, now I'm married and, you know, stuff hits the fan, you functionally feel like you were robbed of what you thought you were going to get.
You thought you were going to get this.
And I'm like, wait a minute.
So when I'm single, this is how women treat me.
This is how often I get sex.
This is how nice they are to me and how flirted.
Like I'm getting all these great things that comes when I'm single.
And then when we get familiar with each other and it's the everyday routine, things just shift and change.
And like me and many friends that I knew, for whatever reason, we didn't pay attention to certain social cues and patterns and history to recognize that that was potentially something that could happen.
So when I came out, I was actually devastated.
I don't think men or women, well, there may be some women that approach marriage specifically with a plan in mind to leave and get certain things as a result of it.
But I don't think almost any man goes into it thinking like, this is going to end in three or four years.
So when I came out, it wasn't a sigh of relief.
It was, it was brutal.
Because for us, we don't view it as some milestone or doing divorce parties.
We see it as a failure on our part.
So I looked at it as a season in my life when I didn't live up to my potential.
I probably put myself in that situation too soon.
And in hindsight, it was like, yeah, I was devastated.
I contemplated a lot of things about what the hell am I going to do with my life going for.
I felt like life was over at that point.
So it was brutal.
But luckily, you know, we were both still younger.
We didn't have any children.
We didn't have any major assets.
So it was a pretty clean, even split.
But no, Do you think men can have that lesson without going through it?
No.
Like, yeah, that's it.
I don't, because if you try to explain that to a younger, like, I don't know if you've ever, and I'm not saying this is your situation, but just a common situation I've seen.
It sounds like yours was different, but when guys like, they like the guy who married, let's say, Riley Reid or a guy that wants to simp or whatever, it's like they can't learn unless they go through it.
Would you agree with that or disagree?
I do.
And I think that actually shockingly enough applies to both men and women more often than not.
People tend to operate where they truly do believe that they need to know why they should do or not do something.
They have to, they have to get it.
And it's just, I almost want to say it's like a rite of passage where the difference.
Now, what I will say is the difference of how it typically impacts men and women.
Men, where it impacts them to the degree where they can't recover from it, usually take themselves out of this life.
Yeah.
Men who go through it and overcome end up being much better, much more accomplished, much more driven versions of themselves.
Women who typically go through really, really bad situations, especially if it happens multiple times, they become worse versions of themselves where they become so jaded, so pessimistic about men.
And before you know it, they become this shell of themselves where they're no longer happy.
They're always nagging.
They're always complaining.
And then before you know it, they're like a miserable person to be around.
Whereas the men who tend to be like that, they don't want to be around people.
So that's kind of some of the key things I've kind of noted.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Women crash out.
You know what that means to crash out?
Listen, I have crashed out.
So I'm a crash out king.
So I've been there.
I've definitely been.
Listen, with me going viral.
Listen, with me going viral, I'm waiting for my crash out moments of people with screenshots to come back.
So I noticed it's coming.
So I'm probably going to beat him to the punch and just, you know, when I do my first intro video to my podcast to say, hey, everybody, it's me.
I'm probably just going to cover it all, get it out the way.
That's actually a good idea.
Okay.
So let's talk about paternity tests.
So you mentioned a stat that one in three paternity tests come back with the men not being the father.
How did you research that?
And what has the impact of that been on society?
And do you think it's always been this way?
Has it always been this way?
I just don't think we have enough data to go back that far to truly, truly know or determine that.
I will say that I have noticed in a lot of black families, there's always that one or two cousins that don't look like everybody else, right?
And you always, I don't know, you always, you always kind of wonder that.
But no, so yeah, stat after stat, study after study kind of is saying the same thing.
About 33, 34% of paternity tests are always coming back as not the person who was tested or the supposed to be father who was tested.
If that's the numbers because of who's been tested, can you imagine what the numbers and percentages would be if all women were tested and paternity tests were mandatory?
I'd envision it maybe.
So this is why I say what I said about cheating being so high.
If a third of women that are getting the ones that's just getting tested are showing that they're not the man that may potentially have been tested and thought he was the father.
It's not if a third, one in every three women are showing this, this results.
And I'm saying their cheating stats may be as much, if not higher than men, especially depending on the age range.
I wouldn't be shocked at 40 to 45% of all men that are probably not the father of the child that they're raising.
So you actually think, because I always hear feminists are more like left anti-man, I guess, leaning folks.
They argue that, well, it's actually, I even hear conservatives argue this because they can't believe women are that slutty.
That like they think it's because the people that are getting tested are going to be like a worse sample size because they're the ones getting tested.
Like that's always the pushback I get.
Do you think that's a valid pushback or like, why do you think it's higher?
Because the cheating rates are higher.
Okay.
Sometimes we try to act like we don't see what's really there.
Yeah.
If the if the cheating's higher, yeah, more than likely the paternity test situation is probably a little bit higher as well.
Yeah.
That's a good answer.
I wish I came up with that.
I don't want to take that one.
Sometimes I give guests arguments that I haven't been able to answer.
And I'm like, maybe they can come up with something better.
Okay.
So, tell me about the mountaintop analogy.
Yeah, well, as I had mentioned before, 18-year-old men and 18-year-old women start diametrically a post with women typically being at the top and men typically being at the bottom.
The only time men that are that young will be at the top is typically they have to be very exceptional at something.
You were either born and you got the genetic lottery where you were born into a wealthy or rich family, you were a really high-profile athlete that's about to go pro.
Things of that nature would kind of increase his chances to kind of make the major jump and start off from the top.
Everybody else, most guys are at varying degrees of very, very low.
And the reason is because the things that women are looking for in comparison to all the men that are approaching them, you don't match up or have you haven't done and accomplished most of those things or become most of those things at 18 years old.
You probably aren't making little to no significant money.
You potentially haven't built up your physique and actually grown into your man body.
You don't own a home.
You may or may not have a car.
You don't have much to show for what women that are dating and being approached by all these men, especially ones that are older than you, would already have.
So as time goes on, 18 to 25, she's hovering in that top tier area.
And only the women that are exceptionally beautiful will typically stay very high up there post-30.
Everybody else, women-wise, start to make the steep decline.
And whereas men, at 18, you're at the bottom.
By the time you get to about 30, if you have not put yourself in any significantly stupid situations, having to pay alimony, having to pay child support, having a record that prevents you from being able to get into a lot of fields to be able to make really good, decent money.
If you've built up your money, if you built up your body, if you've avoided some of those financial pitfalls, by the time you reach 30, you're now the guy that can date 30-year-olds, 20-year-olds, and even the 19, the 18 and 19-year-olds, if that's your thing.
So, over time, we get to a point right around 30 where now, I think for a lot of women, because they're so used to being up there, they assume that the guy that's 30 that now checks off all those boxes, him and her are now equals.
No, you're not.
He's up here, he now sees you as middle-tier down here.
If he's up here, he's comparing you to all the women that look like you, all the women that are your age at 30, and all the women that are a little bit older and a little bit younger, but potentially have had less negative experiences and more positive attitudes towards men.
So, for whatever reason, men don't know that their value tends to mature later on, and women lose sight of what they're being valued for until it's often too late.
I almost think it's uh sooner these days than 30.
Like, but no, I'm serious.
I'm like looking at Gen Z. They're like tatted up and fat.
I'm like, Yeah, I even, I even have a little sister.
She was tatted up by like 22.
I'm like, why would you do that?
And it's like, um, but it's so common in their age group, like they all do it.
Yeah, now the thing that the women who, in terms of this mountaintop analogy, because many of them aren't truly aware of what men use as distinguishing tools, tools to kind of discern between the woman I'm going to have fun with, uh, recreational sex with, and the woman I'm probably going to take seriously, they don't know that overt sexuality is one of the worst things you can do to prevent men from wanting to see you in wife material.
There is a reason why men are not lining up at the strip clubs with engagement rings saying, I'm ready to find my wife in here.
Like, we're going for entertainment.
We're going to have fun.
We're not going in there because we're looking for our long-term, lifelong partner, but you're doing and acting and displaying all the same things we're seeing in those settings.
And then you're shocked when that decreases the pool of men that would be willing to see you differently.
So, the women that are doing OnlyFans, they're not factoring this part in that the men that typically are going to be okay with that are the men that most other men don't respect and most other women don't want.
Now, you can get the simp that got the money.
You say, Well, I got the lifestyle.
I tricked him into marrying me and he still lets me do what I want.
That's cool, but we all know that you're with a loser.
We know it.
We did it.
And nobody would trade places with you, regardless of how much he got going on.
So, when you do these type of things that kind of harms you, before you know it, men are not only not seeing you on a pedestal, they're not even seeing you at their level, especially if he's done well over the 18 to 30, 12-year run.
So, a lot of times they don't realize.
I've gone through it where when I was younger, I would try to shoot my shot and try to chase after certain women or whatever.
And then, when I got to that 30-ish, 29, 30-ish range, I started seeing the woman that I was so sprung for when I was younger.
I now don't see them the same way.
The thing where I would tolerate the bad attitude, the inconsistency, the flightiness, the ghosting, and all of that.
Now that I'm older and making a little bit more money and having more options and traveling, you think I'm going to tolerate that?
You think I'm even going to respond back to you?
And they don't know that when that switch happens, that whole saying of if she didn't accept you in her prime, don't marry her in her decline.
That's a real thing that men who start to level up will absolutely embrace without anybody having to teach or tell them that.
So, for a lot of ladies, it's highly, highly important for them to try to take advantage of, like you said, when you're your youngest, most fertile, most desired self, be smarter and get out the game as soon as you can.
The strip club is almost better than church these days.
Oh my girl, what I'm gonna say: listen, all I'm gonna say is, is King of Diamonds in Atlanta got the best chicken wings and they got great brunch on Sundays.
Okay, but but but I'm not gonna say it's better than church, I'm not gonna say it's better than church, but I will at least the at least the strippers are up front.
They're like, I'm a whore.
They just go to the church after and put a dress on.
What's crazy?
You know, what's crazy is when you are when you're younger and you go to those type of environments, if you spend enough time and you have enough charisma, when you get to know a lot of those women, many of them aren't what people think they are.
We assume it's only the women who are posting their cash apps in strip clubs and OnlyFans that are obviously doing this stuff.
The women who are doing it all were never on stage, they were never on stage.
It was fascinating to see that a lot of the strippers and dancers and professional dancers, many of them have the skill set of being able to almost compartmentalize what they're doing.
And for some of them, they're like, I literally just dance and that's it.
And I go home.
That's the end of it.
I make great money.
I'd be stupid not to make this money.
And then their perspective is, is like, when, when this is over, I'm done with this lifestyle.
And that's it.
Now, obviously, that's not the case with all strippers, but many of them, they actually aren't doing a lot of the stuff that maybe your homegirls are doing that you may have no idea.
Why is so-and-so always going out on trips every two months?
And she, and she, and she works at a job where she can't afford to do that.
And she's not a dancer.
She doesn't have OnlyFans, but she's traveling all the time.
And you start to put two and two together.
Many of the common normal girls are doing way more than the women that's more overt about it.
I think that OnlyFans women, as someone who's spent time in like a Protestant church for a few years and also interviewed OnlyFans women, I think OnlyFans women have a better shot at getting married than the awkward girls in church because they're hotter.
And there's hotter, number one.
And two, the church girls just end up like basically married to the pastor.
Okay.
Yeah, they basically marry the pastor and then they just go on like their whole social life becomes the church.
And then there's like two Chads in church that the girls all wait for and then they just reject everyone else.
And then like, like, I've met women that are 30-year-old.
I mean, allegedly, right?
I don't believe anybody, but allegedly 30-year-old women in church telling me they rejected a guy because he's not holy because he tried to smash.
I'm like, virginity doesn't count after 25.
They're just going to assume you do something.
It doesn't.
It does not count.
Virginity doesn't count after 25.
Oh, my God.
No, I don't think it does because like it's only valuable if you're young.
Like, like, cause it went.
The guys aren't going to wait.
You have to be pretty hot.
Maybe if you're really, really hot, they'll pretend to believe you.
But I'm talking most of the church girls that I met.
This is the archetype.
Fives.
Slightly chubby, usually very awkward.
Celibate for like, allegedly celibate for two, three years.
Cooked.
Done.
The girls just coming up front and saying, I'm a whore.
Use me.
They have a better shot.
They have a better shot, my opinion.
Go ahead.
I'm going to tell you this about this whole everybody supposedly was a virgin thing.
I did not learn until college about these women that were claiming to be virgins and putting it in other holes.
And I'm like, you do know that still counts as sex, right?
No, but I'm not, I'm still a virgin.
I was like, ma'am, like, you don't see like the ability to compartmentalize how they can excuse their behaviors is fascinating to me.
So, yeah, so I've experienced that.
I've seen it.
I've heard, like, I've literally been told by women, especially when I was in college, that that was a thing.
I even knew women that were doing that.
And that was, that was a thing.
And for whatever reason, they, they, they, and you're right that there's all there almost always will be a guy that will be willing to still accept the lies and the delusion.
Well, and the other thing, too, is it's gonna, we can't really predict how normalized some of this stuff is gonna be.
Like, we have to think back 100 years ago.
I mean, a woman was expired at like 23.
Now, no, I'm serious.
So, we have no idea.
Like, I think when you said like men won't accept the OnlyFans, I think men will accept the OnlyFans, unfortunately.
I don't wish it, but I've been to places with high-level like guys that I would say that women would want to be with and like most men would respect.
I don't, and I asked them, I'm like, hey, would you overlook an OnlyFans when she was younger?
Like, she did it two years, no on-camera corn.
And I couldn't believe how many guys said, yeah, they would accept it.
Yeah, I could get past that.
Guys that say, oh, I won't do the tat.
Like, that was the one thing I learned interviewing people is I thought guys, when they said that, like, their standards, they meant it.
Yeah.
And then I would look and I'm like, I knew your girlfriend before she met you and she was not the thing you're saying.
You know what I mean?
So I'm a little bit more black pilled.
I think like, I think you're going to see a lot of like guys end up accepting OnlyFans, unfortunately.
But, and it's partially because women are so fat because they're like, you know what?
If I have to deal with it, they have to like weigh it.
They're like, if I have to deal with the fat woman or a bipolar, like it's like, okay, the fat girl, the bipolar hot girl, or the girl that's nice, but with an OnlyFans.
I think now, obviously, the choices are going to vary for each guy, but I just think at some point a guy is going to say good enough.
Unfortunately.
So go ahead.
There are men.
So a lot of the men that you're describing, I would argue, are Simpson disguised.
Okay.
These are individuals who may have been late bloomers financially, physically.
And because they weren't used to being able to pick a better caliber of women, when they finally start getting attention to it, they just almost like gravitated and formed an attachment with one of the ones that kind of was quick enough to get to him.
She's pretty.
She's beautiful.
She's feminine.
She treats me well.
Five years ago, 10 years ago, I wasn't getting this and she's hot.
I'll accept her pass.
That happens all the time.
What I'm suggesting is, is that the guy, the guy that every woman wants is the guy that won't actually accept it.
The guy who has stand, what I'm basically saying is a lot of the women that say they want a certain type of caliber of man, they wouldn't even know where to find him if you pointed him out.
They don't know what lounges to go to.
They don't know what events.
They don't know what conferences.
So they assume that the gym or at work or just, it's just going to find me or he's going to pull up in my DMs.
The man that every woman wants, he's typically not doing most of those things.
He's going to a private gym.
He's going to a social club.
He's going to conferences.
He works 70 hours a week.
This individual is so hard to actually come into the same spaces with.
And if you weren't raised by a mom or aunt or somebody to put you on game, you're just going to be going by trial and error through man after man after man.
So unfortunately, yeah, there are men that's going to accept it.
The women who see those men that accept women that live that way or have acted that way or are still doing it, they don't even want those men.
But wouldn't your grandfathers call you guys all Simpsons disguised?
Imagine a guy from the 1920s, right?
And he said, like, you were accepting a non-virgin woman as a wife.
Do you know what I mean?
Like, then either.
We got to stop.
We got to stop.
Well, stop.
I mean, whatever damage.
Okay.
But whatever damage they did, like my grandma was married at like 16, I think, 18.
So, I mean, okay, there might have been, you know.
Bro, if grandma was getting, if grandma was getting married at 16, she was putting out at 15.
You hear me?
No, I know.
Everybody was no virgin 40, 60 years ago.
Okay, but you could still say that with the eight.
They could say, like, you know, the list is going to go on and on.
Like, the women of the past were in better shape.
They married younger.
They knew how to do more.
And what we've seen is every generation of guys just keeps accepting it.
Like, I don't know.
Well, well, with that, you say that if marriage rates are declining and men are also going overseas, then maybe this generation of men isn't as simpy as we're making them out to be.
MACTOW, men going their own way actually is something.
So if men are going their own way, there's a male loneliness epidemic and men are going abroad, then a lot of men actually aren't signing up to get married, period, let alone to the women in the States.
Right.
But I wish men were going abroad, but the stats don't really say that in mass.
Like the women, the women are the ones that are mostly female travelers.
Like women are like 80% of solo travel.
It's not really like it's more women that do it than men.
Yeah, that's the thing.
Yeah.
And like, you know, I'm with you.
I'm just, I don't, I just foresee like marriage getting pushed to be like older and older and older in the future.
I think it's going to be like 35, 40.
I think it's not going to be, I think like the OnlyFans is going to bleed even into like business settings where like, yeah, I think like you're going to fret like even in business settings, there might be like a wife or two there where like she did OnlyFans when she was young.
Do you know, I want to predict, I'm going to predict something as well.
And tell me what you think about this.
Go ahead.
I predict that it's going to be polygyny and polygamy is actually going to be as normalized as OnlyFans the next 15 years.
I agree.
Two ways though.
And the reason why I say the whole all these men can't be simps is because there's too many women complaining about where's the good men.
If we're all projecting out, then in 2030, a huge percentage of women are going to be childless and single.
And a lot of men is a male loneliness epidemic.
Then a lot of people actually aren't getting married or staying married.
So my view is, is that actually all these women are not going to stay single for the rest of their lives.
They're actually going to start sharing.
What you think?
I agree, but they'll share until they get married.
Like I think.
I think I'm talking about openly.
Like Atlanta, Georgia, two years ago, a friend of ours, she had a little house get together for a birthday and a girlfriend of hers that was living and staying in Atlanta had flown up.
And she was telling us that the dating market was so lopsided because so many of the men down there were gay or bi that the ratio of men was anywhere between five to one to seven to one in terms of women to straight men.
So she was saying there were men who were going out on dates with three women.
That's awesome.
Like right now, right now in Atlanta, there's men going out on dates with multiple women.
Normally.
So they're not going to wait for marriage.
They're going to go, many of them are going to go.
If you get to 35 to 40 in this culture where everything's on social media and everybody wants to show that they got the ring and everybody wants to show a certain lifestyle, you're either going to settle for a guy you really didn't want, you're going to stay single, or you may potentially be girlfriend number two, three or four.
Yeah.
So I agree with you, but But they do that in their 20s.
Like Dan Bolzarian, they all follow all his ex-girlfriends and they're all married now.
But they're sharing Dan Bolzarian in their 20s.
Oh, yeah.
They're like, they're on the jets.
I can't.
Yeah.
And so women are, but this idea that women will be happy with the alpha guy, like I do alpha, beta.
I hate the terms.
I just can't think of a better, you know, term, but women aren't happy with anything.
So like, you know, for example, I'll take, yeah, no, like this idea that like, because the thing is, when you date a guy with options, women take that, in my opinion, you could disagree if you want, but the women can take that for so long, but sometimes most women crash out because the anxiety just gets to them.
A case I think of is Katy Perry, Russell Brand.
You know, she, yeah, she had, you know, she had Russell Brand.
She was super happy.
Then she crashed out.
Then she married Orlando Bloom, did the beta thing for a while, crashed out again.
Now she'll be back.
You know, I mean, we've seen Rolo's charts.
Just, you know, women, the most uncomfortable thing is women are kind of designed to be passed around.
It's just, yeah.
Hold on, wait, Pearl.
Oh my God.
I wouldn't, their biology, I actually don't think that's true.
If anybody's biology is designed to be passed around, it's men.
Well, okay.
Yeah, our biology is literally designed for us to not.
Well, then why aren't women with one?
Why aren't women with one man for life?
Why did women have to like, well, you have to understand if I was married to someone on the tribe and my guy got killed, I had to get past.
Like, I had to get past to survive, you know?
Victims of war.
Every guy that's married, you're like, every guy that's married, your wife most likely belonged to someone else before you.
It's like everybody.
So like, listen, I get the passed around.
Like, my view is like when I, what I'm coming from is through the lens that our biology is hardwired for men to be able to have meaningless and commitmentless sex.
I think women are trying to match our energy and it's ending up poor for them.
I don't think that they're designed to do it.
I think that's why for them, you know, so many other physiological things are going on during sex and when they're climaxing and how they'll react and respond as a result of it in comparison to us.
Men, we don't have to know your name.
We don't have to know who you are, ever see you again.
Now, there are women that move like that, but the majority of women do want to feel safe, feel like they, you know, that there's some type of form of connection, feel like he's fairly charismatic.
There's all these other hoops that women have to think through to get to that point to do that, especially if they're not doing like my view is this.
Women, women that try, women that can match men that have a very, very high body count, more often than not, there's usually something wrong.
They end up having to either working in an industry, the sex industry, they're crashing out, they're spiraling.
And for a woman to have sex with a different man every week, something is wrong.
Well, for a man to do, hold on, for a man to do that, he's rich or he looks good.
That's it.
Well, I'm not saying that maybe women have the same sexual variety as, say, like men.
I'm not saying we're the same.
But if women were designed to be monogamous, why is it when we unleashed all the freedoms, women fought for nothing more than to be whores?
Even when women get, even when women, even when women get the top guy, they leave him anyway.
You know, it's like, I won't use that word in terms of whores, but I'll give you several points in response to that.
Number one, in order to have choice and be able to grow, we must be allowed to make mistakes.
So the problem is, is that we, I think for whatever reason, we assume that every, you literally said it yourself earlier.
Men and women typically have to make mistakes in order to kind of learn from them.
Right.
The issue is that what if I was to say that I actually don't think it's necessarily about women wanting to be whores as much as they want the freedom to choose, but also the freedom from the consequences of that choice when they've chosen poorly.
That's very different than all women want to be whores.
What I'm distinguishing is, no, there's certain women that do that as a lifestyle, but in terms of just having sex with rampant men, a huge percentage of these women that are racking up 10 guys, 20 guys, 30 guys, even 40 guys, they're racking it up because they want the freedom to be able to choose the guy that they think that they can latch on to and connect with and build with potentially long term.
But when it doesn't work out or he cheats, I'll say it this way.
On the Sharing My Truth podcast, I basically said something along the lines of, I noticed this pattern with women coming in and out of relationship, in and out of relationship, in our relationships.
And most of them are always the ones that's initiating the breakup.
And a lot of times it's about cheating.
And I'm saying, wait, wait a minute.
And I'm talking to the one-on-one and I'll say things like, wait, let me get this straight.
You don't want the man that most women don't want and ignore.
You don't want to date women.
You don't want to stay by yourself.
You only want to date the men that all other women are also attracted to and want.
And you keep leaving him every time he does the thing that attracted you, which is messing around with other women.
And I asked them this simple question.
If you had to choose between one man and giving him 20 choices or 20 men and giving them one chance, which would you choose?
Woman after woman after woman.
I don't tolerate cheating.
First or second time, I'm done.
And my argument is, wait a minute, that's how you're building up the body counts.
That's how people like Pearl and people in Black Pill are calling y'all whores and all this other stuff.
It's actually because you want the freedom to choose and you want the freedom to leave, but you don't want to deal with the consequences that comes with constantly going from man to man to man.
You don't want to deal with the labels.
You want to deal with the stigma.
You don't want to deal with the judgment.
So I wouldn't say that by and large, all women are in America are trying to be whores.
I think it is that they want the freedom of not their father, not their mother, not the church, not anybody else being able to dictate who they have access to, who they want to pursue, who they want to date, and who they want to marry.
They want the freedom to choose that, but they actually want the freedom from the consequences once they've chosen poorly.
What do you think?
Well, I think it goes back to revealed preferences versus stated preferences.
So I can only watch what we're doing.
So, you know, you could say that like women want to be in relationships, but I don't think women do.
I think men want relationships more than women, to be honest.
And the truth is, right now we have Hinge.
And even an average girl on Hinge, you can get like, I know overweight women with like five, six, seven, 10,000 matches.
You can filter by age.
You can filter by height.
Now, I'm not saying like, obviously, there's going to be a percentage of guys that smash and pass.
There's going to be a percentage of guys you don't like.
But I mean, out of like 10,000, come on, there's somebody in there that'll date you and it'll work out with.
If women wanted it, they would do it.
And we're releasing all the restraints.
And what I'm seeing is that women would rather be whores than wives.
And I see this based on, um, I think 20% of women in Gen Z are on OnlyFans.
So when women have the most choice between 18 to 25, and that's when I think when you have the most buying power, that's when you see what people really want to do.
You know, like it's like the billionaire, the millionaire, you know, they get money and they start doing this crazy stuff.
Well, they always wanted to do it.
They just couldn't, they didn't have the money.
So that's why I just think there's something in our biology that we're not as monogamous as we originally thought, unfortunately.
Listen, it's definitely possible.
I don't know that the evolutionary psychology really truly backs that up as much as are women in modern times using sex as a strategy up front instead of later as an incentive to convince these men to try to get with them.
I think that's also happening too.
I think a lot of times there's women, it's not even about like going through a million men on hinge as much as when it is the guy that they want, this is what I have to give what any guy has expressed interest in me before.
So I need to kind of present this early and upfront as soon as possible.
And then he doesn't want it because he's like, man, she smashed me on the first night.
How often is she doing this?
She's on OnlyFans 2.
I'm out.
And now she's like, all right, let me try to use sex again.
And a lot of times it's like, what it is, is I'm not always, I'm not an eternal optimist.
Again, people call me a red pill therapist.
It's just that human psychology is sometimes a little bit more complex than we try to reduce it to in terms of black and white stuff.
And I know that a lot of women are using sexuality as the mating strategy to try to lock these men down.
Don't women use kids to try to lock men down?
Yeah.
So why wouldn't they also, many of them try to also use sex?
But what happens if the thing that they keep displaying up front and early is the actual thing that's the deterrent once he has post-nut clarity?
And they're not making that connection.
So when you go through a decade worth of doing this and you're in your and now you're 30 and things still haven't worked out and you're like, I know guys like sex.
They want sex.
I'm giving it up front and it's still not working out.
What am I doing wrong?
They're not working with a therapist to kind of point them through that loop.
So that's really, you know, now is that the case for all women?
Of course not.
But that's where it comes from where some in my field and discipline, I have to look at all these different motivating factors for why we get stuck in these type of loops.
Right.
But it's always like convenient that they start like they start looking for solutions when they have less choice.
Do you know what I mean?
Like it's like if you really wanted to be in a relationship, like you, you would have done it, you know?
No, there's a difference between being in an A relationship and being in the relationship you want.
They're using sex to try to lure and get the men that they want to want them long term.
They're using sex and the men that they want, other women want.
And these men are like, nope, Actually, y'all, I'm not getting married at all.
Like that also, that's happening a lot.
So, you know, I get it.
I get that people, you know, feel like the women of today are probably the worst ever.
And there might be some evidence to that, but my view is, and you're right, they do tend to start to level out and start to wake up once they hit that 30, 35-ish.
Well, I just, I don't think women are as monogamous as people previously believed.
That's really my opinion.
I think women are like, I don't really buy that, like, women are as monogamous as we thought.
Would you say it's not that they're necessarily as monogamous as they are possessive?
Can you say the question in a different way?
I don't really understand what you're asking.
What I'm asking is, are we confusing women being monogamous with being possessive of men?
So, what I'm basically saying is, what is it about women breaking up relationships when he steps outside of the monogamy?
So, she's punishing him for not being monogamous.
That's often the case with most relationships.
That's why a lot of women are leaving because he's stepping outside of the monogamous agreement.
You said earlier, though, what I'm saying is that, but what if it's more so that actually they're not necessarily monogamous by nature?
They're possessive by nature.
When he's mine, he's mine, and I don't have to share him.
So, I'll agree with you.
Maybe women aren't necessarily, maybe we're confusing monogamy with possessiveness once they've locked a guy down.
Maybe they're not as monogamous as we thought.
They're actually possessive once they believe a man belongs to them.
Women are definitely possessive, but no, I still don't think women are as monogamous as we thought.
Yeah, maybe let's say I grant you that.
I agree with you.
And let's take out the word monogamous and say possessive.
Women are actually very possessive of the men that they want and are with, but maybe they aren't as monogamous as we used to think.
And I could say, you know what?
There's probably some significant data I haven't looked into that probably reflects you being actually right about that.
I mean, it's not data.
I just look outside.
You said yourself, that's what I was going to say, that women cheat more than men.
So I just look at what's going on.
Nah, nah, nah.
It's definitely fair.
Yeah, I think that they're more possessive.
So that makes sense.
Okay.
So why do you see men sticking it out in relationships and women not in your field?
Oh, yeah.
The number one central reason is the elevation or centralization around happiness.
Men will stay in undesirous marriages and relationships for a whole host of reasons.
It could be because of that's what he's used to, for the sake of the kids, for the sake of finances, for the sake of his name and his brand and his legacy and a whole host of things, even when he's not getting sex.
You know, whereas on the flip side, person after person after person that I talk to, women are kind of being reinforced this thing that the most important thing is your happiness.
And I've asked women flat out, if you had to choose between your own happiness or the happiness or the happiness of your family, nine out of 10 times, they're choosing their own happiness.
So that's what I think is, believe it or not, the answer.
It's they have a higher elevated view of the importance of happiness than oftentimes their male counterparts.
Because if men prioritize happiness, how about this?
If men reacted to women, the way that women react to their channeling and responding to their happiness and to men cheating, if men responded and had the same expectations with women in regards to sexual fidelity in a relationship, you've made this man commit to you and made sure that he's to be sexually exclusive and monogamous with you.
And you've said the only, if you're going to get sex, it's going to be through me as your wife or girlfriend.
And when you opt and choose for weeks, months, years to not offer this man sex when he can supposed to only get it from you, you're being as unfaithful as he is when he cheats.
It's just that he'll oftentimes still stay and endure it, and you'll leave when he's unfaithful.
So men are not prioritizing their happiness, and that's why they're being left when they could be unhappy the whole time as well and will choose and opt to stay versus their women female counterparts.
So I think it's centralized in happiness, honestly.
I'm pro more men divorcing.
I think it'd be a better place if more men put their happiness first.
I would agree with you if we put that up front instead of after the marriage has started and kids are involved.
I actually would prefer that if you're going to move like women and prioritize your happiness over your kids' happiness, over the stability of the home, over all these other things.
If you're going to start moving like that, if you're going to start thinking like that, I would much rather you move and think like that, not being married.
Because it's just, because again, if you do that, it doesn't matter if you initiate it.
How does the family court see you?
You know what I'm saying?
So that's the thing.
But an unhappy woman will just destroy the kids anyway.
And she'll destroy and she'll destroy him if he initiates too.
So my perspective is as a man, if you're going to move that way and try to match her energy, and if you think you're going to move in that approach, first of all, don't get married.
And then number two, I would highly, highly, highly suggest that you figure out a way to decrease her propensity for being stuck on.
And so for instance, guys will, we do this to ourselves.
I did this.
We start the process off wrong when we elevate these women above our purpose.
So when you elevate women above your purpose and you put her on a pedestal, she believes she and her happiness is always central and the most high ideal of what we need to work towards.
Happy wife, happy life, that concept.
So when you've started off the dating and marriage component with her and her happiness being the most important thing in this relationship, you're now just getting the consequences of something you set up from the beginning.
So if you, if you sense her as a woman, it's only, it has to be her way.
It's always what she wants.
It's always going to, the last thing you better do is give that woman kids or a ring.
So when you see a Telsa, when a woman starts, a grown woman starts referring to herself as a princess, run.
When a grown woman is idolizing all these famous celebrity women, run.
When a grown woman is saying and constantly comparing what she's doing in her relationship with you with what she's seeing with her friends and on social media, run.
Because she's elevating happiness as the highest ideal and not commitment, not longevity, not her oath.
It is her happiness.
I'm going to say something, and I know I'm going to get killed for this.
And I'm just starting with a podcast.
Women are not loyal to you as a man.
Women are loyal to their feelings.
And if their feelings are positive about you, she'll be positive towards you.
But if her feelings are negative towards you, she will not be loyal to you.
So if you look at it through that lens, the woman who has an elevated view of her feelings and emotions and her happiness, she'll never be loyal to you.
She never was.
She was loyal to her feelings about you.
Does that make sense?
Oh, it makes perfect sense.
Whenever we say anything, I just add like right now.
You know, I love you right now.
I think this right now.
So, yeah, no, I totally agree with you.
What do you think about the married men are happier stat?
Do you think that is true?
Conservatives always cite that married men are happier.
I personally think that their wives are sitting next to them.
So they got.
Oh, no.
I don't believe any of these stats when it comes to happiness scales.
And part of the reason is because there's too many variables that are not being included.
These are oftentimes simple yes or no questions.
That's a little bit more complicated than I think we want to acknowledge and realize.
So for instance, all these women that are claiming to be happy when they are single.
I'm like, well, at the same time, I'm seeing all this data that's saying the highest level of diagnoses for anxiety and depression is in this population.
The highest level of prescription, antipsychotics, and antidepressants is in this same population.
And they have the high student loan debt.
They're leading the lead in consumer spending.
They have these mortgages that they're trying to shoulder by themselves.
And yet they're the happiest people on the planet.
That's not adding up to me.
So that's why these stats, this data about who's the happiest and all that, if anything, I think all of these things are a lie because it's convincing women you are your happiest when you're by yourself in perpetuity.
And men are their happiest when they put themselves in marriages, especially in the West.
And I'm like, who's pushing, who's pushing these articles?
Who's pushing these studies that's telling men to keep getting married and telling women you're your happiest when you're single?
And I'm like, I don't buy it.
I don't buy it.
And plus pulling women on happiness, it's like one day we're happy, one day we're not.
You know, it's like, what day did you take the study?
Literal neuroticism is more expressed in.
So sorry for the fans, everybody watching.
Neuroticism is the wide range of expression of emotions and feelings.
Women seem to display more emotions, good and bad, both extremes, in the female population than in comparison to men or males.
So like you said, day in and day out, it depends on the day.
It depends on the day.
So I'm like, no, I don't buy it.
Don't buy it.
Women cope with not being happy with student loan debt, consumer spending, alcoholism.
So why do you think that is?
Two of those, you said consumer debt, student loan debt, and alcoholism?
Yeah.
Because these are three easy things that they have very easy control over.
Like, for instance, it's extremely difficult to really put anything else in those areas that can't continue to sustain the lifestyle that they're trying to live.
So for instance, when I'm alone, when I don't have much going on, I can always fall back on my degree.
I can always fall back on my job.
I could always fall back on the things that kind of help self-soothe me to make me feel like, because what it's doing is reinforcing my ability to be able to still live the lifestyle I want, even if there's some drawbacks to it.
So for instance, you know, if, you know, in this most recent administration, As DEI and other things have kind of happened, you're seeing a kind of change in tone with certain populations within the female population because a lot of them started getting layoffs.
Now, that whole I can cope with my job thing, or I don't need a man thing, we're not hearing that as much as we was hearing it in November.
So, a lot of times it's because you have it and you can do it, and it can allow you to still live the lifestyle that you want.
But if that job gets lost, if that field gets standardized by AI, all of a sudden you're looking back at the other half that you said you didn't need.
So, because they have it, that's why they use it.
Yeah, I agree.
So, I think we're going to go to the next part of the show.
Will you give me therapy on some of my black pill ideas?
I got you.
I got you.
Okay.
All right.
So, I'm going to read them to you.
I'm going to go through them all and then you can tell me which ones you want to address.
Disagree, agree.
Okay, so one idea I have is that marriage is not a good deal for men.
And it's stupid for men to get married in 2025.
The reason I think this is just because it's an unfavorable deal if someone's paid to do something bad.
I can't really be shocked when they do it.
So, unfavorable.
I'd say it's not going to get better.
So, I had a lot of more happiness in my life when I stopped being upset about things or the way things are going.
But I think women are going to keep being whores.
I expect really, like, if you have kids, I really think you should expect that their peers, there may be a mom or two with an OnlyFans or an ex-only fans.
And that's just going to be more normalized in society.
Like, for example, I have a younger sister.
She's going to school with someone, and this girl has OnlyFans.
She just met her in her class.
I think, I think, yeah, it's bleeding.
It's bleeding into the middle class, going to be in the upper class.
Women are going to keep killing their kids and having abortions.
There's nothing you can do about it.
I used to be very pro-life.
I still would say I ideologically am, but I give up.
You guys win, kill your kids, move on.
Abortions never going to go away.
Move on.
10%, 90% is the new norm.
Women are going to keep banging and having kids with Chad, Tyrone, Glocktavius, and Gavin, the starving musician.
Average men, average men are going to keep getting iced out of the sexual marketplace.
It's going to get harder and harder for men to get laid.
Meaning, those men will accept the OnlyFans and the fat women later.
As we've, that trend we've really just kept seeing.
Women's debt and spending is only going to increase, especially student loan debt.
Somehow, men will end up paying for it.
And there's no such thing as a good woman, just the right circumstance.
So I think a lot of women, and I even like, there's a point where I would think to myself, well, you know, I've never been on a yacht.
I've never done the Dan Bolsarian thing.
I wouldn't do any of that stuff.
And then I thought about it like really in depth.
And I think it's really easy for like men that have like never cheat or never had the option to cheat to say they wouldn't cheat.
And I'm like, I was never invited on any of these yachts.
And I was like, you know what?
I don't know what I would do because I never got that invite.
And so it made me think even further that really a lot of women's behavior is just circumstantial.
Because at the end of the day, if you were as a woman, your husband died and you had to hop on the next guy in order to survive, you'd probably do it.
And we've seen that in all of history.
And most men, she's not yours.
It's just your turn.
Whoever, yeah, whoever you married, someone had a turn.
Not, I didn't mean that towards you, but you know, in general for men, sorry.
Someone will turn before you, most likely.
Someone will have a turn after you, whether that's in death or her leaving.
So, yeah, and that's that's my black pilled ideas.
Are there any you disagree with?
You think I'm wrong?
Okay, I'm gonna have so much work to do in this conversion process.
All right.
All right.
So, for starters, let's agree that marriage, although you say marriage is a bad deal for all men, I absolutely think it certainly is probably not a good deal for most men.
But I'm going to argue from the lens that throughout human history, when did all men get entitled to marriage and women and children ever?
Never.
Never.
Well, never, never.
There was never a civilization where all men were always entitled to have a wife and kids.
So the first thing is, as a man, most of you don't deserve a wife and don't deserve to even be, it's the idea, literally what you said.
You're discussing something that isn't even meant for you.
Every civilization, there were men that had to meet certain prerequisites before you were even in discussion.
All men, all men talking about marriage and how unfavorable it is, and I would never do this, never do that.
That's like me talking about I would never date Beyonce.
That's never on the table for you, bro.
There's there's a in every civilization, the one percenters, the one to five percenters today are the equivalent of dukes and monarchs and kings in previous civilizations.
A very small substrata of men.
If marriage was ever on the table, it was actually meant for them.
Number two, I view marriage today as the way in which many of us that's really been big into music.
Like as you see, I got Stevie Wonder behind me.
I'm back in the day, old school music just had something, right?
You had the Stevie Wonders, you had the Michael Jacksons, you had the Princes, the Whitney Houstons.
You just had an era of the 70s and 80s and part of the 90s where it was like music was music.
And everybody knew and recognized and said, that's a hit.
And it was like, it was something that came over you where music was amazing.
And then today, when we talk about music today, what's the big complaint?
Everybody say music sucks, right?
And we still call it music, but we say it doesn't even compare.
That is how I would kind of view marriage in a modern sense, especially in westernized countries.
Marriage, we associate the modern adaptation and implementations of what the American government and Westernized governments have done with marriage.
Marriage originally was just an agreement between two individuals, potentially their God, their family, and their community.
Everything else, everything else Was adding family court, signing paperwork at the courthouse, all that other stuff is a modern adaptation of what we're adding on to it.
My view is: you know what?
Granted, divorce rates are crazy.
Family courts are insane.
There's a lot of really, really bad incentives that women who are on their way out can try to strive to get and extract from this man.
I get all of those things.
If the biggest hurdle for you is the family court process, the child support, and all this other stuff, you can come up with a life contract where it's just between you two, and you can cover every single domain of what your life would normally have been impacted if you two got married and have it in a contract.
But because it's a life contract, you can set it up to be renewed every three to five years.
So if she's on her good behavior and she's on her last year of her lease, you get to renew that contract.
We can make some new changes.
But when you put it in the state's hands, no wonder your view of marriage is what it is.
And I agree, like I, from a logical standpoint, I agree with you.
I agree with all these men.
Well, adapt instead of being like, I quit, I won't deal with women, I won't do this, I won't do that.
Unless you want to be a genetic dead end, this is a potential alternative that perhaps you haven't thought of.
Um, what you think?
Well, I think that modern marriage is just cosplay.
Pearl, I just spent some jewels just now that you said cosplay.
No, no, I'll get to him.
I'll get to him.
Okay, okay.
Because why is the bride in white?
Uh-huh.
But I don't really see the because the life contract, you know, I mean, that's not going to hold up in court.
No, a lot.
So when I say lifestyle contract, everything that we're contractually agreeing to in terms of assets, finances, who's paying for health insurance, these are things you two as individuals can just do.
We can establish a contract with lawyers over anything.
Yeah.
I'm just the only thing, the only caveat with that idea, believe it or not, is you have to factor in common law in every state.
And you're probably still going to have to have two residences where two to three times a week, you do not stay in the same residence.
But other than that, you do everything else together.
Yeah.
I mean, you can develop strategies, but then the law will just like you can't really predict the laws that will be implemented in the future.
And women are getting more political power, and women are the major voting block that politicians are catering to.
So you can't really predict the future.
The other thing is, too, just so you know, I've interviewed men that have had just every type of strategy imaginable.
Like that's how a lot, I don't know if you saw the intro, but like the divorce documentary.
I had a guy literally go to his like secretary of state or I don't know, whatever it's called, where however you get a law changed in the state, and his kid got transitioned, like his kid, like, and he did.
And so, yeah, I just would feel bad almost encouraging men to get married because you know there's a percentage of them that aren't going to make it out alive.
There's just, it's just going to happen, you know.
Listen, I'm, I'm, as a person who's gone through it all and is married now, I'm the first to say marriage isn't for everybody.
Marriage, I would even argue, isn't for most people, men or women.
Um, but the secondary uh thing that I didn't bring up is a lot of women associate.
If you mentioned the abortion rates being as crazy high as they are, a lot of women will not give men access to children without marriage.
So, men that are choosing to opt out of marriage and still figure out a way to have children, I feel like you're statistically setting your child up for every major disadvantage.
Um, that doesn't mean that you're guaranteed with it being in a marriage, but you're just almost guaranteeing every statistical disadvantage when you skip the marriage step and say, But we're still going to do the kid thing.
So, there's definitely pros and cons, but you know, I'll let you have it.
Well, I just think you're not that guy to her.
Like, every girl has a guy she would have a kid for outside of marriage.
And if you're a yeah, like believe me, I know, yeah, so yeah, so it's like you know, um, the other thing I wanted to, sorry, um, do you still want to go on with that or did you want to go to another black pill?
No, you can go to another one, it's fine.
All right, so, all right, out of a grade, I'm probably gonna give myself a D because I didn't really hit you.
All right, I'm gonna go to some, some, some more heavy, heavier, heavier stuff.
This whole entire interview that we've had together so far, black pill from a male lens, it's like they almost can't find almost anything positive or redeemable about women, especially in the West, right?
They, they, they feel like we're cooked, society is crumbling, we're just waiting for the species to die off, and women are a huge part of the blame for it.
Fair one of the biggest gripes from myself and men that are pointing out about third and fourth wave feminists and feminism is that the representatives of it, the women that identify with that, can't see any good in men.
They say men are dogs, men ain't worth nothing.
Um, if I choose a bear, but if I was in the woods, I choose a bear over a man.
They will mentally jump through hoops to always believe all women, which means by default men are guilty always.
Like they will basically see only the worst in the entire male species, and they'll take the worst examples of what men are capable of doing or doing and project that onto all men.
What if black pale male thought processes about women?
What if y'all are twins?
Think of how you feel.
What you think of how extreme how these feminists, especially the extremist ones, how they think and talk about men.
They don't see no value.
They see no purpose.
They only look at us through the lens of what they can use us for, and that we're only good for resources.
And that's it.
When men or people who have a black pill mindset basically say women are only good for the holes that they have and nothing else, I think we've morphed to a point in this conversation where black pill is starting to look and sound like the equivalent of third and fourth wave feminists with how they see men.
What you think?
I agree.
It's the same.
I just think the feminists are wrong and the black pill is right.
Because I, you know, I think women just have a naturally evil nature.
Okay.
Okay.
I think women like, I think when women are good, they got it from their dad.
So, oh, okay.
Yeah.
So like it comes from a man.
It's like if a woman's really good at something, a man taught her.
Like, but you put a group of women on an island together, they'll just kill each other.
Well, to be honest with you, I think they would die off from not being able to do a whole host of things to survive, but that's neither here nor there.
The main point I was trying to drive home is when we do this with men and we do this with women, me coming into this space, I like to believe that a lot of the stereotypes that's typically associated with my community, black community, I'm not currently displaying.
I don't know if you feel that way.
A lot of people feel like in my community, we don't read, we're overly emotional, we're irrational, we are ghetto, we're hood, we're uncouth, we have no class, and I like to believe that somebody like me is displaying the total opposite.
And my view of my argument is there are people on both sides that don't display the worst aspects of said group, and whether that's black people, whether that's Indians, whether that's women, whether that's men, yes, even with this, there's reasons for the stereotypes to exist in the first place, and there are people that are living it.
I don't know that when we say all women are, all men are, all black people are, that we're actually truly hitting home to the reality of a situation.
No, I do not think gangbangers and gangsters are the true representation of all black people.
So, no, I don't think all women are the worst, the worst species ever.
I don't think all men are.
But if it doesn't apply, let it fly, you know?
Yeah, But it doesn't make it like untrue.
You know, I just, you know, like if a third of men were murdering people, I'd be pretty afraid of men.
But a third of women are killing their own children.
And we're like, eh, they're not so.
I'm like, I don't know.
And you know what?
Before I get back to the black people, I want to, I'm going to share with you the one thing that me and you are in agreement on for sure when it comes to black people because I'm not red pill about this at all.
Okay.
When it comes to abortion and in my community, black community specifically, we have the highest rates of abortion to live birth ratios.
Nearly one abortion for every two births.
One abortion for every two births.
Oh, yeah.
Seven.
Some stats are saying it's over 7 million abortions have occurred in the black community.
So when you factor in the Klan, the Ku Klux Klan, and you factor in the CIA, the greatest, most dangerous age, the most dangerous place for a black child in America is not in Chicago.
It's not in Philly.
It's not even in Compton.
It's in the womb of a black woman in modern day America.
And I'll agree with that.
That is black.
That's where I'm going to be like, we've moved so far from is it saving the life of the mother to like, we're treating this like we're going to get our nails done.
I'll be back in a second.
Oh, yeah.
And like that, that I will 100% acknowledge that is, and it's at its worst in my community.
So I'm going to be like, there is no more dangerous place to be.
Remember, I said one in every two births.
One abortion for every two births.
So you're statistically most likely in terms of danger, the most dangerous place is in the womb of a black woman today.
Yeah, but I don't blame the CIA or Sanger or any of that.
I just think women want to kill their kids.
No, like, I think it's very simple.
Like, everyone tries to put it on some grand plan or whatever.
But I've shown women abortion videos and been like, hey, it's pretty gross.
This is wrong.
Don't you think?
Showed them the whole video.
They don't care.
Well, you know what?
They do not care.
And if it was up to them, if it was up to them, they would kill the kids after birth.
Oh, they would.
If it was up to them, I bet you women, if they could vote, if a woman had 100% voting power, they could kill the kid a year after birth.
And I looked this up because I was when I really gave up on the abortion thing, I looked up the infant mortality rate in the 1800s.
And look, this is me speculating, but I just think it's too convenient that a third of kids died before the age of five in the 1800s.
And then magically, when abortion's legal, it's the same rate.
It is the same rate.
Too big of a finding out, like the nuns, they just found like 200 babies killed in a nunnery.
And I'm like, if the nuns were doing it, we're done.
So we are cooked.
We're done.
I'm losing this debate right now.
Well, that's not really a debate.
I mean, I say, no, no, I get you.
I get you.
I say enjoy the decline, but like my baseline when I meet women is I'm kind of scared of them.
Like, I don't know what they're because as soon as I talk about this stuff, remember, they treat me like they treat a lot of you guys.
And there's nothing like a scorned woman.
So my baseline is you guys are, you got, and even, you know, I'm not saying I'm perfect either.
Like sometimes I'm like, I'm like, damn, you know, I got to talk to my dad more, my boyfriend more, you know, because they, I'll have an idea and they'll just tell me it's stupid, you know.
And like, so I had three arguments, right?
Go ahead, listen.
Listen, and even up 75% of violence towards children perpetrated by women.
Like even the elderly, they can't even take it easy.
They can't even take it easy.
We can't even take it easy on the elderly.
So I, you know what?
I came to this conclusion because I really spent a lot of time trying to find one thing we were good at or like one stat or one observation about society that just made us look good.
And I couldn't, I couldn't find anything, even like raising the kids.
The men do that better too.
I'm like, we can't even say, I find no evidence that women are nurturing at all.
I think men are the nurturing gender.
And the men, yeah, I think women, like, like, I think men are tricked.
Like, the women trick them and say that women are natural mothers and all this stuff.
And I'm like, well, if you were natural mothers, then why do we keep killing the kids?
You know, doesn't make sense.
But go ahead.
Oh, my gosh.
I'll have to go back to my wife and our one-year-old.
Like, after this, this is going to be crazy.
Like, this is going to be crazy.
Yeah, be like, watch out.
Like, what I only go upstairs and the house is empty.
It's going to be horrible.
So, all right, I'm going to give myself a D for that because you clearly killed me with that.
So, I got one that I know.
I know this is the black pill.
This is the ultimate critique of the black pill.
The greatest argument against black pill, believe it or not, is you and me.
You, what country were you born in?
USA.
USA, America.
Yeah, you were born in America.
You own a business and a brand.
You're primarily surrounded by not only men for your work, but surrounded by the worst types of caliber women when they come on your show.
And yet, in my first time meeting you, everything that you said about women, you were the polar opposite.
And my view is that if you were born in a culture working, because we're told that, oh, the reason why I'm so masculine and so this and so that and so negative and why I is because and why I'm so disagreeable and so this or that.
It's because I work so much.
Your ability to be able to still respect people, your ability to love the people around you, you're probably great in your relationship.
You're probably really well with your genuine friends.
I don't get, I don't get any of the, you're in this space.
This is what you do for a living.
And a whole lot of negative animosity comes your way.
And if everything you said was as potent as it was, it's almost like seeing you as an example, the way in which it comes off, it almost comes off like you're an anomaly and God must have took a day off when you was born.
No, I don't think I'm special at all.
No, I think there's a lot more pearls than not.
Actually, I actually believe that.
And in fact, I interact with them and most of them are black.
So there's a hell of a lot of pearls that I know that are just genuinely dope, good-hearted people who, you know, can keep it real and may have their moments here and there because they're human, but for the most part, they're not like assholes.
Yeah.
And I think like that's, that's a lot of people.
Yeah, but I got to look at choices, right?
And, you know, my life choices are pretty similar to most women.
So yeah, I don't think I'm special or different.
So how is it if your life choices are similar, but your attitude and your mindset is totally different?
What I'm basically suggesting is a whole lot of women are also like you.
Well, they're probably surrounded by men and like good men, but like, that's what it goes back to.
I think the nature of women is evil.
And if we have good, if we, yeah, like if we're left to our own, like, you know, you put women together, we become like, yeah, the only way you can have good women is like they learn from good men, but that's it.
That's it.
That's fair.
Yeah.
The second piece.
Second piece.
Go ahead.
Remember, I said, not only are you a great argument that there's women like that that do exist and we can find them even in the States and they have jobs.
The reason why I said I'm also a really great argument about it.
If we took black pill ideology and mindset to its furthest conclusion, ultra pessimistic, super negative, it's beyond just being objective.
There is no hope.
I lived that.
I experienced the final form of black pill, which is what's the purpose for why I'm still here?
What's the purpose?
And when my last relationship ended and I'm literally looking up at the sky and trying to decide, like, I'm screaming to this being that I don't see and saying, what the hell is this?
And trying to decide if I'm going to look down and end it.
And I literally, there is no light, Pearl.
There was no light.
It was all dark.
I saw no future.
How can life get any worse than this?
And what I'm saying is, is in my lowest, darkest point, I literally just decided I'm going to stay and I'm going to work on trying to make progress even when there's no light to walk towards until I do.
And when you take Black Pill to its final form and you get to that end point where you have to decide if you even want to still be here and you decide to stay and then you decide to put some work in and eat and you're walking towards a light that you don't see, eventually the light shows itself and eventually you learn from your mistakes and you start to become a much better holistic person.
And what I'm saying is there's examples of you as a woman in modern culture who's running a major big platform like this with employees, et cetera.
And somebody like me who lived out Black Pill to its furthest extent and was there.
Everybody bitching and complaining and talking about women ain't this, men ain't that.
Y'all not really as pessimistic as you think you are.
There is another level to this.
When you get to the point where you don't want to live or exist anymore, that is black pill.
You don't see value not in just women or men.
You don't see value in life.
That was me.
So for me, so I'm saying this for me to come from that to marrying my wife, having my child last year, buying her home, she could leave tomorrow.
The difference is, is this go around?
I have radical acceptance.
I have radical acceptance about what I have control over and what I don't.
And I have, and I learned about all the things that I have control over, how I can push it to its furthest extreme.
Working out, building up my network, building up my finances, choosing better in terms of how I'm interacting with people.
A lot of men aren't doing that work.
And I'm like, if you did that, it's impossible for you to stay Black Pill.
It's impossible.
But what you're describing is still objects.
What you're describing, though, is depression.
Black pill just means I think the world's going south.
Like, I think this is the same thing.
Yes, but what I'm basically saying is in the final form.
Yeah.
Yeah, but I'd say like that's a personal choice, what you have to do with the information.
You know, like if you get depressed about the information, you know, that's, that's like a personal choice.
I'm not depressed about the information, right?
I just, I take it for what it is.
You know, women have an evil nature.
Any woman can destroy me or you at any time.
we'll probably statistically me and you will both be single parents at like 45 um like but the difference i hope you and i hope not I hope I would really rather not do that.
But, you know, I can't control the universe.
You can't control the universe.
So the difference is you have radical acceptance.
I have radical acceptance.
And like you said, we both just have to choose how we're going to approach the things that we know we can't control that potentially could or could not happen.
For me, I'm at a space where this is even why I'm standing in front of you.
Like I was starting to feel that way even when I wasn't depressed.
I was starting to go into that space in that zone.
And that's why I'm kind of saying where it's like, I know what this mindset leads to for men who can't get a girlfriend, for men who are seen as genetic dead ends.
And that end that I had or soon to be in, that's why do you think we lead the race that we do in terms of taking ourselves up out of here?
So the reality is, like a lot of the things that you're pointing out and we're all believing that is functionally true.
The lack of radical acceptance and the unwillingness to try to do what we can for what we have control over is why I think some people get stuck.
You're not stuck.
You're still working.
You're still moving.
You're still dating.
You're still living life.
A lot of these men that are receiving this information are not.
And that's my challenge.
Well, what are you challenging men?
I'm challenging men to be more like you.
Well, if a guy is a genetic dead end, isn't it like, isn't it better he just accepts it?
Like if that's his fate?
No.
Because the meaning, like the meaning of Blackpill is just accepting the futility of fighting against a feminist system.
It's like learning the rules of the game so you can play it better.
So for example, accepting abortion.
Yeah.
No.
That's a red pill mindset, right?
No.
I mean, red pill is like the forums.
So red pill is like it's the study of human behavior.
So it's all the guys that were in the forums for like 20, 30 years and like the notes that they took.
But yeah, like I don't think it's got to be hopeless.
It's just like, yeah, women are going to kill kids, unfortunately.
OnlyFans is going to keep going.
It's all going to get worse.
And let's just, you know, but like, it's not, I don't want to sell hope.
Like it's say you probably are going to stay married.
Like I, if I had to guess, most people will get divorced or, you know, yeah.
Yeah.
Even as a therapist, I don't, I don't personally sell that either.
I, especially when talking with men, I actually want them to have a similar mindset to what you're saying.
Statistically, the odds are against you.
These are the pros and cons.
You need to go into go into this with your eyes wide open.
But there are options of how you can approach life that potentially you're choosing not to that can lead you to feeling hopeless and feeling like all is lost.
Like, no, what you said as an alternative is, I think they should be passport bros.
I'm like, oh, there's hope.
Oh, there are women.
Well, no, no, I just think it'd be cool for a guy to get a couple years of a good woman before she ruins his life, you know, but at least he'd get that like few years while she's waiting for her visa, you know.
But and the other on the bright side, you know, guys, if you're a single dad someday, women love single dads, so you can just still date 22-year-olds forever.
So I'll tell you this, Pearl, after this interview, once it goes live and my wife leaves me, I'm going to hit you up.
Then you're going to bring me back home my baby.
Nah, but all talk.
So A, those are my black pill talking points.
I wanted to thank you because, you know, I'm a therapist and most therapists stay out of these type of spaces.
And it's because we, a lot of them only have the talking points of feminists and they wouldn't be able to give you any type of adequate pushback or even be able to enter these type of spaces with the feedback and the comments and people blowing up their personal lives.
I'm at a place of peace in life where I'm like, you know what, man?
People have been telling me this for years at this time to get in this space that they think that a lot of things that I know is just interesting in different ways to view it.
And I genuinely, genuinely appreciate you and your staff for giving me this crazy opportunity.
Yeah, you're going to do great.
I'm excited.
Are you going to do like a therapy call-in show?
I think that'd be awesome.
Eventually, that's the goal.
That's the goal to have to get to get people into side-by-side where they're talking to me or do a panel of different people and see their thoughts and give some pushback.
But yeah, I'm excited.
Yeah, that'd be great.
To end the show, though, we're going to, I want to read you the modern woman life cycle.
And I want you to say if you think this is true or untrue.
For each pointer at the end.
At the end.
So I'll read it.
And then you can just say if you think this is the true life cycle.
So number one is modern women go to a high-priced institution to get a degree that nobody cares about to put themselves in a whole bunch of debt that will be a burden for the rest of their lives.
All they learn in school is how to be disagreeable, how to use men, and how to be a whore.
Number two, modern women will get a job that's too stressful and that does not care about them.
In reality, the job is not that hard or stressful, but the women will convince themselves, all of society, that it is.
That's kind of why you see all the teachers striking and not the coal miners.
It's like, you know, modern women feel entitled to a certain lifestyle when they begin their careers and will buy houses and cars they can't afford, spend all their money on travel while ignoring student debt.
Modern women will wake up between the ages of 33 to 37, rush to have a kid, find a husband or both.
Modern women will hit their late 30s and early 40s and try to get pregnant by some loser or go through IVF.
You know, that's when like the, you get like the 38 year old pregnant by like Pookie, Ray Ray, Nug Nug or Gavin the starving musician.
Modern women will start at antidepressants and become alcoholics because their beauty is fading faster than they like and they don't know what to do.
And then last but not least, buy a dog or a cat and die alone.
I really, really hope I still have a job after what I'm about to say.
The only I disagree with the dog, I think it's mostly cats.
No, I'm going to say this.
I do think most of what you're saying is much more descriptive, much more descriptive of millennials and Gen Z than the other older demographics.
Because number one, the older demographics didn't have the student loan debt.
The older demographics didn't purchase homes as women on their own.
The older demographics statistically did get married early.
Now, they may have gotten divorced, but a lot of the things that women that you're describing now in terms of the life's journey, this has really been a phenomenon that's really started to pick up in the late 90s and early 2000s.
That's the main, main distinction I would make is that it is true that there are a lot of women who get themselves into a lot of debt, don't think about the career that they're picking and whether or not it's going to actually pay for both the debt and the lifestyle and the home that they want.
And they also want the man that comes in to be able to offload that onto him.
And they don't typically, when talking to them, want to work at the same establishment for 40, 50 years.
So there is a lot of truth to what you're saying, but I do say that I would draw the line between women who didn't do that either because they didn't have the opportunity to or it just wasn't available versus the women where by default everybody else is going to school, everybody else is doing this, everybody else is traveling each year.
So I got to do the same.
That really is a phenomenon that's kind of really, really shown itself with social media and with the explosion of the student loan costs.
That's my feedback.
You said, I thought Gen X women met their husband, their husbands in college.
Did they not?
Yeah, but they didn't have the student loan debt.
A lot of them went to school for free.
Oh, okay.
I didn't know.
I mean, yeah.
And then, and because they met their husbands earlier and sooner, they didn't, they weren't buying homes the way that women are buying homes and outpacing men today.
So that's why I'm saying, just from a historical data standpoint, we got to draw that line between women that are 20 years older than us and everybody that's in our age.
Well, because there is that lady that was going on the college campuses who went to school in the 70s and said she was a whore at college.
You know, you know what I'm talking about?
Nah, but.
Yeah, she just goes around telling girls not to be whores with a mic.
It's so funny.
She's like, I was a whore.
It's so funny.
But, but, but, but the um, what I was going to say, though, in a way, they kind of just hop off because they, they went to college and maybe didn't get the debt, but then they got the house and divorce.
So they just like entered it later.
Listen, they didn't get into unnecessary debt.
They, they, they, they, you know, they, they, they were lucky enough to not have the additional options that modern women did.
So they avoided some of the pitfalls other women are currently making now.
Okay.
Okay.
Yeah.
But I'm glad to see we mostly that it's pretty, I'll make a note.
Um, I um banned from the internet after like a week of people knowing I exist.
Hey, yeah.
Oh, um, Doug MPA is putting one more note he wants me to put in.
Red pill is learning the nature of women.
Black pill is accepting the evil nature of women and moving on with your life.
You know what?
MPA got he got a point, man.
Maybe you're converting me in some ways.
I'm not gonna say women are whores.
I'm not gonna say all women are whores.
I'm just letting your audience know I'm not saying women are how many, how many bodies tell the whore?
I mean, like, come on.
Like, most guys say, most guys say what?
Let's just do the women's.
Let me do the math on you guys as wives.
Strippers, you got to remember the strippers and the professional dancers are to be honored because they are providing a service that many of these women are not willing to offer once they get married.
So that's why I will never use that term because there are women that will do the dirty work.
We got to remember that.
Well, they like being called whores.
They even tell the men in like sex to like, you know.
Maybe I was not that guy because nobody's ever told me to say it.
You see like Bonnie Blue and like Lily Phillips.
They're like going on the podcast saying, yep, I am a whore.
Bonnie Blue, I seen her recently.
Was she on with Tate recently?
Oh, it's Doug MPA saying women have more homes because of divorce.
It's a lot.
A lot of them, they are winning them.
They are winning the homes.
That's the thing.
And I'm going to come way more prepared if I get invited on.
Oh, you can come back.
It's whatever.
I mean, we do call-ins like a few days a week.
So if you ever like a topic, I mean, we'll give you preference.
We can let you up.
It's cool.
Well, I think that's all of his notes he had here.
There's like a Google Doc.
So sometimes a lot of stuff.
Well, thanks so much for coming on.
I had so much fun.
Did you have fun?
Amazing.
I had a question.
Could I say how people can find me?
I was about to ask you.
So yeah, go ahead.
All right.
I'll do closing remarks.
So, hey, everyone, thank you, Pearl, for allowing me on your platform.
It's kind of crazy to go from starting this two months ago to now meeting you and one of the biggest, most influential voices in our culture right now.
In terms of how I see myself, I'm a normal guy who just works for a living, and I think I have an interesting perspective.
I don't think I have the argumentation skill set of Andrew Wilson.
I don't think I have the person capacity of Andrew Tate.
I don't even think that I have like the clinical background and depth of like Dr. Jordan Peterson.
I definitely don't have that swag of the guy fighting.
Kill this Kevin Samuels.
So honestly, I'm just Jeff.
I'm me.
And if you want to follow the journey, my podcast is Ask a Brother podcast on YouTube, Instagram, TikTok.
And, you know, I'll do collabs and I work with like-minded people that not only agree with me, but people who don't.
And my goal is just to get us to become thinkers and readers again and make thinking, reading, and becoming better versions of ourselves cool again.
So thank you for the opportunity and looking forward to y'all joining me in this journey.
Awesome.
And Doug MPA, if you could put his links to his stuff in like the comment section in the description, that'd be great.
I'm going to read the super chats really quick before we close out.
80s nostalgia guy says you can know how much a woman truly loves you by how generous she is with her money.
In my experience, the women who were the most attracted to me were more happy to take turns paying for dates.
True or false?
True 100, the camp, the camera i'm looking through.
My wife bought me for father's day all this stuff that you just see behind me.
I have set up nothing.
My wife didn't.
So when he's 100 right, and that's the whole distinguishing good versus bad women.
The Women that want you and love you, genuinely want you for you, they don't hold money back for nothing.
They will support you and your endeavors and figure out how they can add to your life.
And I bet a man made her good.
Yeah, me, me.
Yeah, you see, somebody did, and it wasn't herself.
Yeah, yeah.
I'm going to claim the credit.
All right.
Someone, KW says, accept my OnlyFans pronouns or else.
Okay, well, we're very excited for you to start your call-in show.
If you're ever looking for editors or stuff, I have recommendations I can give you.
So, yeah, totally.
I can't do nothing right now.
I don't know how to do anything.
I need help immediately.
Okay.
Okay, I will.
All right, guys, make sure you like the video on your way out and go check out his channel.
Go subscribe.
Are you monetized yet on YouTube or no?
No, because I literally just started two months ago.
Not even close, but I think once this goes up and I put some stuff out soon, who knows?
I think it'll change up.
Okay.
Well, guys, make sure you go subscribe to it.
And let's try to get him to a thousand subscribers.