Andrew Wilson and Pearl Davis clash over marriage’s role in men’s lives, with Wilson advocating for family stability despite modern risks like $200K divorce fees and 74% female-initiated splits, while Pearl frames it as a resource-extraction system. Their debate pivots to Amouranth’s husband Nick Wick Lee, who denies abuse claims during her viral 24-hour stream fight—sparked by a cigar incident—while Andrew dismisses OnlyFans-linked promiscuity as a societal threat. Ultimately, the episode exposes deep divides: Wilson’s faith-based optimism vs. Pearl’s collapse-driven pragmatism, and whether men can reclaim agency or are trapped by shifting gender dynamics. [Automatically generated summary]
Welcome to another episode of Pearl Daily here on the Audacity Network.
So, today we're having a special guest on the show.
We're bringing back Andrew Wilson.
So, as you guys know, me and Andrew Wilson did debate last week, and it was really good back and forth that I didn't really expect we were going to have.
And so, we decided to continue the conversation today.
But before we get into that, I do have a couple announcements for you.
So, the first thing is we are launching Audacity Academy.
Sorry, it's actually called Pearl Academy on Wednesday.
So, if you guys sign up for the Audacity Network now, you're going to be automatically entered into this.
It's going to be a community on school.
And all we're going to do is we're going to enter your email into the school group.
So, that's going to start on Wednesday.
So, if you want to be a part of that, it's going to be a pretty expensive.
It's going to be about a two-grand lifetime purchase because I'm bringing in really smart, intelligent men to give you presentations on how to improve your love lives, how to improve your finances, et cetera, et cetera.
And these are people that have taken me years to get in contact with.
So, it's really going to be worth your money.
And you can get it for $10 a month, $100 a year if you buy it now.
Wednesday, it's going to be very exciting.
It's funny for months.
This is going up.
It's happening Wednesday.
Okay, second thing is later in the show we're going to have on Amarith's husband.
I'm going to fill you in on that story, but that's later.
And then, third, I want to show you guys the documentary trailer.
So, I've actually Me and Andrew Wilson's debate on actually here, let me send him the Zoom.
We were kind of going back about the question, what the heck?
There we go.
What's in it for men?
So let me show you guys the documentary trailer.
I just posted it today and yesterday on Twitter.
So we're going to react to this.
Okay.
Oh, man.
Hold on a minute.
Oh, my gosh.
Hold on, guys.
All right.
Okay.
Bear with me.
Sorry, guys.
Okay.
All right.
Now let's watch the trailer together.
This clip going viral online of a dozen women being asked the following question.
Do we need men?
Most answered very quickly, no.
Because men are useless.
I mean, this headline from the hill, it caught my eye.
Most young men are single.
Most young women are not.
Young men have fallen faster than any demographic in America over the last 40 years.
It's a different world now.
Like, we don't need men the way that they used to.
The future is female.
Men and women are drifting further apart, and society is crumbling because of it.
A fascinating debate has broken out about the value of marriage.
You've kind of got the TradCon versus Red Pill thing.
This men's rights crowd that sometimes just goes too far the other way.
Oh, you need to stop acting like grown boys and infants and actually become men.
Marriage is a bond and it's a sacred bond.
It's a machine designed to extract resources from you.
Now many of the red-pilled have taken the position that it's bad for men to get married.
It's Hannah Pearl Davis or just pearly things.
One of the most controversial faces in all of the internet.
She goes on to say that marriage is a terrible deal for men.
Because if me and you were in a business contract, you would never sign a contract where I am paid to leave.
Gee, what could go wrong there?
74% or something of divorces are initiated by women.
Men have everything to lose, primarily their own children.
Men get killed by the courts and by divorce laws.
I had no idea that courts of family law were courts of equity, not courts of law.
Because in family court, you don't need evidence to accuse someone of abuse.
You need no evidence.
When you guys say get married young, a lot of these men don't know what they're signing up for, and you're not going to be there when their entire life falls apart.
I interview them on the other side.
I didn't meet my son until he was 15 months old.
How much did you spend trying to get him back?
The legal fees alone was about $200,000.
Before you know it, you're homeless.
You're literally just thrown out into the street.
We absolutely reinforce bad behavior from women.
Wives are taught to leave their husbands and then daughters grow up without their fathers.
Family is the foundation of society.
Every problem in society comes from single mother homes.
A lot of women will just chase this negative rapid hole of happiness, endless happiness.
Feminism's biggest failures is it lies to women.
We tell women to date as many guys as possible.
We tell them to put off family into marriage.
You are allowed to leave your perfect husband.
You are allowed to end a relationship with a really great boyfriend.
Oh, freeze your ex, have an abortion.
What?
You're evil.
I don't think there's anything else in life that we actually ever go into preparing to fail.
Right.
Like if you have the mentality of this is going to go wrong and be pessimistic, naturally the outcome is going to be that it's going to fail anyway.
It's self-sabotage.
And that's the thing.
Like women are so willing to leave marriages because they're not happy.
This is not about happiness.
The most important thing is the children.
And the problem is we have a modern society where it's me, me, me, my feelings, leave when I feel like it instead of doing what's best for the kids.
This myth that we live in an age of male privilege.
Where's my male privilege?
They think, well, men have all the rights.
They have all the power.
Privilege patriarchal system that we have.
Why doesn't our society care about men's rights?
I have no friends, no wife, no social life.
Men are alone in this situation.
Men are homeless.
Men are thinking about eating guns.
I've seen so many men on the brink of suicide and they didn't do anything wrong.
How are you equal if the men are the ones that have to fight and die to defend the country?
The men are the ones that build and maintain all the infrastructure.
Women are helplessly dependent upon men.
The so-called deaths of despair from suicide, overdose, or alcohol, three times higher among men than among women.
Culture is telling men, you are no good.
You got to get your act together.
I think men have failed themselves.
What kind of a man are you?
What kind of a woman are you going to attract?
If men are in trouble, so are women.
Everybody knows this is a huge problem, but nobody wants to admit it.
Every single woman at the table said they wanted a man.
500K, 500, 300K, 300K, 200K.
Am I crazy?
Everything is really set up against you to fail as a man.
If men make less than women, women don't want to marry them.
So you know who wants more economically and emotionally viable men?
Women.
I don't want to be an independent woman anymore.
I don't want to be a strong, independent woman.
I'm overage.
When is it going to be my turn?
Where are we meeting the men that don't?
I can't keep having these same conversations.
The only simp here is you, Pearl.
You sent for men.
I think you sent for women.
She's a provocateur.
She says stupid stuff, but Pearl is right about this.
It's already happening.
It's just not out in the open yet.
Now it's just hookup culture is going to be our fairy tale ending because men don't want a wife and women can't find a husband.
The future, if everybody follows your path, is there is no future.
We go into population decline and our economy goes into decline.
Civilization will crumble.
The American story does not end well.
This is an existential crisis failing young men.
So the whole idea, the whole question of this documentary is really, you know, all these commentators, and this is kind of what inspired the question I asked Andrew this weekend.
We had a debate where I just kept asking him the question, what do men get out of marriage?
And I kept seeing all these like the smartest people, like people way smarter than me, right?
And they're like, why is the birth rate falling?
Why are men dropping out of the workforce?
Why are men not going to school?
Why aren't they making as much money?
Like, and these would be people that were so much smarter than me.
And I just keep asking the question, what does he get?
And until conservatives, the right, the left, whoever can answer that question, men naturally do a cost-benefit analysis.
And the trends are just going to keep going the way they're going until they can answer this question and have a good answer.
Now, I really want to finish this documentary.
We've put together a lot of the footage the past few years.
The challenge was when we started, when we collected all this footage, we didn't really know what we were doing.
And if you go through this, a lot of this kind of looks like low budget.
And my goal is I really want to refilm this.
A lot of the interviews of guys we already had in and they'd be willing to come back, but just like a higher quality, a little bit more professional.
So it looks like a Netflix level, like a Netflix grade documentary.
The challenge is that's very, very expensive.
The quotes I've been given are half a million to a million dollars.
Now, we're considering doing it in-house, but again, you got to hire someone full-time to do that in-house.
And when we were demonetized a year and a half, to be honest, guys, it just really like.
Like, we really had to put this on pause for like a year and a half.
And we put in so much work and do it was the unfortunate thing.
But so, if you guys want to donate to this, it's the link, the GoFundMe is in the description.
If you have a big donation that you want to make, you can email me, just pearlythings at gmail.com.
Right now, we're distributing directly.
We're in talks with some people to distribute through other platforms, but right now we're just going to do it on our app, the Audacity Network.
We're open to other opportunities.
That's fine.
But a lot of people that have asked me have been asking about distribution.
But yeah, if we want to get it done, that's really what it's going to cost.
I think maybe for $100 to like $200, we could finish, like, because we need to get a full-time person on this.
And a lot of the good people are just expensive.
Yeah, so that's really what we're doing with the documentary.
I think right now we're at like $15,000.
And we had a decent donation.
Someone donated directly.
So, anyways, the link to that's in the description if you want to donate.
All right.
Now we're going to talk to Andrew Wilson, the 304 destroyer.
How's it going, Andrew?
Good.
Can you hear me okay?
I can hear you perfect.
How are you?
Good.
I'm doing really well.
Thanks for having me back.
I wanted to revisit the conversation we'd had when I went out there in person.
I thought we had kind of a bit of a spirited back and forth.
I know that we agree on a lot of descriptors, but some of the prescriptors I thought we could get into again after I was thinking about some of your points, especially.
So moving back, I wanted to start with this.
Do you agree with me that promiscuity in women is generally bad?
Sure.
You don't think that that's a good thing?
I don't really want to go down that rabbit hole because good and bad doesn't matter.
I'm in the business of predicting.
Okay.
Okay.
So if I had to predict where it's going to go, women are going to keep getting promiscuous.
Yeah, yeah, I agree with that.
Yeah.
So your predictive model, I agree.
I'm not going to get into like morals or ethics with you.
That's not what I mean by good or bad, like moral or immoral.
Right.
Right.
But like, is it bad for women generally to be promiscuous?
Like, does it lower their value structure?
You could say that, yeah.
But I don't really always see promiscuous women have bad outcomes in real life, unfortunately.
Yeah.
Well, the thing is, is like, because if it is the case that you think that men are going to check out a society, they're going to, well, they're going to check out and become promiscuous because marriage is a raw deal, right?
Then you're actually assigning.
Some men don't care enough to even like some men are just going to check out.
They're not even going to try to get sex.
Yeah, yeah, I agree.
I agree with that.
So, but wouldn't you be assigning these promiscuous women value then?
Wouldn't they actually be a valuable asset to society if it is the case that if men can't get married and can just play the field and have sex with tons of women, wouldn't they actually be very valuable to men then?
Why would they be valuable to men?
Well, because obviously men want to fuck them, right?
And if they're if they're well men need sex, right?
Yeah, that isn't me for a guy.
So then these women would be valuable, right?
Well, I think if they were valuable, they'd marry them, wouldn't they?
Well, so yeah, that's the fundamental question, though.
If you're not married, that's the whole point.
If you're not going to marry them and you're just going to have sex with them, then the value is in the sex itself.
Yeah.
I mean, men do want to have sex.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So then that would be what would make women valuable is that they were essentially that they were hoes, essentially, would make them value.
And they bring more value than the wives that are married and they don't sleep with their husbands.
Do you think hoes bring more value than wives?
Than ones that don't sleep with their husbands, which is really common.
Yeah, well, I went through and pulled a bunch of the stats, right?
So especially when it comes to sexless marriages, that usually happens years into the marriage, over a decade, in fact, before that starts.
After the youngest kid goes to preschool.
Yeah, yeah, that's often the case.
And often those are only for limited amounts of time, right?
Though not always, right?
But it's actually a more isolated case.
When I look at the, this is from Petral, I'm sorry, Petrelli Prevatira, LLC, they pulled up a, they made a study on this when you're talking about Christian marriage because you're asking, what's the incentive for men to get married?
Well, from a secular standpoint, I think I agree with you that secularist men probably shouldn't.
It looks like it doesn't matter.
Well, we're in that, but we're in a secular society, Andrew.
Not yet.
We're getting there, but we're not there yet.
You don't think it's pretty secular now?
Not yet.
Like what percent of people even attend church weekly?
Well, that's true, but 70% of the population does consider themselves to be at least identify, self-identifies as Christian.
But don't you need actions to match that?
Yeah, you do.
But interestingly enough, it must be because it's only 20 to 25% of Christian marriages which end in divorce at all.
I mean, that's, again, what you guys say, right?
I mean, that's what the stats show.
Okay.
Yeah, 20 to 25%.
But Gen Z, you don't know what Gen Z is going to be.
And that's the whole thing.
I mean, wouldn't they follow the same trends, roughly?
I would guess it would be worse.
Why?
Because Gen Z women are the first women that are on social media.
Plus, divorce keeps going up over time.
Well, divorce is lower now than it has been ever.
Right, because people aren't getting married.
Because you're kind of trying to divert.
Divorce isn't going on.
Because the thing is, you're trying to divert from the question.
If you want marriage to increase, you have to give a good answer to the question.
Because it's the only way that you can have children without single motherhood.
What do children get out of marriage?
Well, if mommy and daddy aren't married, right, then the children have very, very bad outcomes.
Single mother homes have terrible outcomes, and single father homes aren't tenable, generally speaking, because they're the working parent, right?
So the only way for me to have families is through marriage.
So what do women get out of marriage?
They generally get resources.
They generally get resources and they get access to status, social status, security, things like this.
And what do men get out of marriage?
They get children out of marriage.
Okay.
And what do they get out of marriage that they couldn't get from just a live-in girlfriend?
Mothers.
So here's, well, an intact family, in other words.
Okay.
They can't have a woman.
Here's the thing.
They can't have the woman if the woman lives with him.
Yeah.
Well, the thing is, is when we look at the- Hang on, hang on.
Well, let me respond to it.
Okay, go ahead.
If we look at the social data for what you're talking about, this happens all the time.
That's called a single mom, right?
You live with the chick, you impregnate the chick, you're not married to the chick.
Those individuals.
Crowder's in the same position.
So, are a lot of like he doesn't have children with some, no, he doesn't.
He doesn't have children with a with some live-in girlfriend, right?
Right, but he's not with the mother of his kids now.
He had a really public divorce, yeah.
But there's a different like, I know, but my point is, you can say data, data, data, all you want, but when we're like, people are witnessing conservative people that pushed a lot of this stuff getting divorced, like men are going to naturally do a cost-benefit analysis and realize there's no difference.
So, here's the cost-benefit, here's a cost-benefit analysis, Sim.
And so, if you say, if you say my other question, too, would be who do the kids belong to?
Do they belong to him or do they belong to her?
Yeah, so I believe in uh patrilineal society, I think that children belong to their fathers, right?
And always have thought so, and that would be a form of reform inside of the court.
By the way, traditionally this was always the way it happened.
But in society today, where women get custody 90% of the time, who do the kids belong to?
They do that.
That's not the case anymore, they don't get it 90% of the time.
Do they belong to her or do they belong to him?
Well, they belong to the court system, they're the ones who are making the allocation.
And where are the majority of the time who gets custody?
Yeah, that's generally speaking women.
I agree.
So, what do men get out of marriage?
Yeah, so I'm gonna say that the majority of the time the kids belong to her and not him.
Okay, but here's the thing: you got to let me actually answer.
Okay, so I'll try to answer this question, but it's comprehensive.
So, the step one: you have to reform the system, the court system.
Men have to move towards the reformation of the court system.
Um, that is that challenging, yes, but prenuptial agreements, as cited, I went and looked at the data again, they are mostly enforced.
That is the case, right?
But when they're contested, hang on, when they're when they're let me finish, Pearl, when they're contested, you know, because when they're contested, you're gonna be afraid of it.
I'm not allowed to make it.
You're still gonna get dragged to court, that's the problem.
So, a lot of guys, if the prenup is not a marriage, you're not gonna get dragged to court.
This is the issue, right?
Like, this is a performative contradiction.
Here's how.
Okay, because you say that women are reliant upon these men for resources, that's what women are getting out of it.
So, why is it if you had a prenup, they're not going to get resources, why would they drag them to court?
Why?
Because they're spiteful.
Why did Crowder?
Why did Crowder's wife, but why did Crowder's wife leak footage to the press?
She didn't have to do that.
She'd probably thought it would help her case for resources, right?
But the problem is in the court of public opinion.
Women are spiteful.
It's not always about money.
Ashley St. Clair was offered a ton of money just to shut up, right?
She didn't shut up.
Yeah, but here's the thing: right, Ashley St. Clair is going to get the money either way, right?
She has the kid in the arrangement.
That was not a marriage.
Inside of a marriage, if Crowder had signed a prenup, I bet you things would have been completely different across the board.
Same thing with most men who are wealthy who sign prenuptial agreements.
They end up women, women want the resources.
That's the whole gain, right?
I want the resources, resources, if they can't get the resources, it's an incentive for the behavior.
Not only that, but here's the other thing: if you promote against marriage, against the idea of marriage, and I'm not saying that you like this idea that I'm Michael Knowles or something, I'm telling men, just take the plunge and take the risks.
No, we're both doing risk mitigation.
Pearl's doing risk mitigation.
I'm doing risk mitigation.
What I'm saying with Pearl saying with risk mitigation is for no man is it ever worth it.
So just play the field.
I did not say that.
That's going to make that.
I did not.
I don't tell men what to do.
Okay, okay.
I don't think it's my position.
I think it ultimately reduces to that, though.
So the thing is, is that my position is just this: risk for risk mitigation.
If you want to have children in a family, the best outcome for the kids, it's going to be marriage.
Like, no matter what, it's going to be marriage.
Right.
That's risk mitigation.
That's what's in it for the kids.
And for the man.
Not for the man, because when you get married, you're just adding on another layer.
Of what?
Of now she can go for alimony.
Because a lot of times it's not about the money, Andrew.
I mean, yeah, like sometimes it is the money, but it's like men want to stop dealing with crazy women.
Like the amount of money men will pay to get a wife to stop nagging him.
And now she can contest, she can, if she chooses, contest the prenup and drag him to court.
He could agree with the terms that she like asks for or whatever just to get it over with.
But it's like the spitefulness of women.
It's not necessarily always the money.
And so, again, you're going back to, well, it's best for the kids, right?
But you don't answer the question, what's best for him?
Having a family is what's best for him.
Right.
By every single conceivable metric, having a family is what's best for men.
It lowers the rates of STDs.
It earns the earning income goes up.
Their general welfare and happiness in a happy marriage goes way up.
We can tell because we can look at the suicidality of men who have gone through terrific divorces or who stay single, right?
And their depression rates are sky high, all of these things.
Why do you think they make more money in marriage?
Well, that would be the incentive for their kids.
Well, right.
To keep up with kids, they are cheap.
It's women's spending habits that are expensive.
Right?
The Botox, the clothes.
Yeah.
We had your wife on.
We had your wife on, and she was going through the costs of kids.
It's not as expensive, seemingly, as what people say.
According to 90%, it's up to 90%.
The vast overwhelming majority of prenuptial agreements are not successfully contested in court.
It seems like a massive incentive for women, if they want to hold their resources, even from a secular side, to do this.
But if you combine this with the Christian side, the Christian ethics side of very religious women, the divorce rate goes down to damn near nil.
Okay.
Well, are most women religious in this society?
No.
Okay.
But neither are most men.
Okay.
Right.
But so now you're going into like selling your religion, right?
Well, that's what I'm saying.
If you want to have a family, if you want to have the most successful family, right?
But I mean, Orthodox is 1% of the population.
I'm not a religious show.
It's not just for Orthodox.
What I'm talking about is, and again, you're not really answering the question.
You're saying you might get your kids.
No, what I'm saying is that by every single conceivable metric which is available for men, men's, what is considered the loneliness epidemic or the number one reported mental health issue for men is that they're lonely.
They feel lonely.
If that is the case and loneliness goes away when they get married, then it seems like what would be really good for men would be to get married in a good, stable relationship.
Your counter is, but there's not that many marriages.
I agree with that, right?
So most men aren't getting a marriageable woman.
Most men never got one.
Right.
So most men, it's not marriage isn't for them.
Yeah, but you can't create the conditional.
Most men, like if like out of two men or 10 men over six aren't going to get a good deal, right?
Which did which quarterbacks were so?
Are you telling them to take a bad deal?
No, what I'm telling them specifically is very simple.
That the historic fact of the matter is that most men never got to reproduce at all.
Your chances of reproduction now are way higher than ever.
And the reason the sex drive is so high for men is because it's a biological imperative for reproduction.
Otherwise, you wouldn't get a boner and want to go have sex, right?
Especially not with good-looking, younger-looking women.
That's the whole point of it.
If you want stability in society, which is good for men, you want stability against degeneracy, which is also very good for men, then you want stable marriages for men.
What does society give men in return for producing a stable society?
What do they give men in return?
Well, society never gave men anything for the production of stable societies.
Fine.
But I'm asking today, what do they give them in return?
Yeah, I mean, do they treat them?
What men get in exchange for having a stable society is they get a stable society.
That's the exchange.
That's always been the exchange.
Like historically, men have always been fodder.
They've always been war-fodder.
They've always been basically treated poorly.
But the idea here that we have to make perfect conditionals for marriage absent any risk or mitigating risk is silly.
That's impossible.
If men keep getting married, what is the incentive for the laws to change?
Whereas, well, hang on.
They can still get married absent the state, and that would still create conditionals for the laws to change.
If men keep having children, what is the incentive for society to give them fairer laws?
Well, what do you mean?
If they have children and there's pre-nuptial agreements in place, women now have incentive to not destroy their own financial security.
But again, so you're saying, well, she won't completely ruin your life, right?
You're not saying a reward.
Yeah, but when you're in the middle of the enthusiastic, like you get enthusiastic sex with a hot wife.
But there's a lot of marriage.
You missed the point, though, that there's a lot of marriages that work.
Statistically, what about the fact that there's so many marriages that work?
Statistically, that's just not true.
Okay, let's look at the statistics.
Since you want to bring them up, you're looking at an estimate of 40%.
40% of the marriages are failing.
Okay.
The vast majority of them are still not.
And as less people get married, those marriages are actually not.
What is the obesity rate in America?
Oh, it's overwhelming for men and women.
Okay.
Are most men ecstatic to take on this enormous risk and responsibility for a fat wife?
No.
Okay.
So again, you have to answer the question, what's in it for men?
I'm answering the question.
So what's in it for men is the only thing that's ever been in it for men.
Family.
Yeah.
And I don't think it's going to be a good enough answer.
If you're right, then men are going to sign up to get married.
You don't have to convince me.
Yeah, but what about the qualifiers of men have to live in this world.
Right.
We have to live in this world.
We live in a world full of degeneracy and basically horrifying things because of the instability of society.
And you almost disempower them in a way because you're saying they don't have the power to change the nature of law.
I just want them to make an informed decision.
Yeah.
But I mean, the informed decision towards what?
Their happiness?
Whatever they want to do.
It's not my place to tell them.
Well, do you think they want to be happy?
It's not my place to tell men how to live.
Well, do you think they want to be happy, though?
Well, I think that happiness is a feeling that comes and goes.
So I don't really.
So you don't want them to be happy?
Do you just want to do what they want?
No, I didn't say that.
I said it's a feeling that comes and goes.
Yeah.
So I think studying.
I think ultimately you would want men happy, right?
I want them to do what they want to do.
Okay.
Well, do you think that most men want to be happy?
I'm not a preacher channel, right?
I'm not even saying that.
I'm not saying that you're a preacher.
I'm not preaching.
Right now, I'm just talking about the facts.
The facts of the matter are, don't you think men want to be happy?
Well, if marriage makes them happy, then I'm sure they'll sign up.
I'm sure the marriage rates will go up.
Yeah, that's not an answer to the question I asked.
The question I asked specifically is, do you think men want to be happy?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
So if you think that men want to be happy, and if we look at all of the data that we can possibly find on male promiscuity and happiness, it doesn't look very good for them.
So even if it were the case that you advocate against marriage, which is fair, especially sexuality.
I don't advocate against marriage.
I see it.
I see it disappearing.
I see it disappearing from the middle class completely.
I see it just becoming something that the rich do.
And I see the birth rates continuing to decline.
And I see marriage going away because people like you can't give men good answers on why they get married.
Should wait 100 years ago.
He cares about the decisions he has to make today.
Yeah, I know.
But he has to use the same thing.
You're like a question avoiding machines.
No, you want me to do what you do, which is prescribe.
I don't prescribe.
I'm not even asking for prescriptions.
I'm asking right now for a description.
What did men ever get out of marriage?
Well, I can think it's a stupid question.
I don't think it matters.
What did they ever get out of it?
Ever.
I don't know.
Tell me.
You don't know.
No, go ahead.
No, tell me.
Tell me.
They got the same thing I'm prescribing, which is a family.
What else would they inspire?
And again, if that's so great, then men will sign up.
If that's so great.
If a product's good, there's a big demand, right?
There is a big demand.
Men want to get married.
Sure.
Yeah, but if they wanted to, they would, right?
When we talk past each other, it's like, if you describe all the issues, that's fair, right?
But the description of the issue is supposed to be for the purpose of what men do best, which is solving the issue.
I don't mind you giving all the descriptors.
I think that's great.
But the idea of like, Andrew, what do men get right now?
That's not a good enough reason.
What did men ever get out if it's the same reason?
It must be the best reason.
Then run for office.
Run.
I mean, I would much rather run NGOs so that I could get people in key positions to change law, but the same, same principle.
Go do it.
But what I'm saying to you is like, from a descriptive standpoint, I am doing it.
I have been doing it.
Okay.
Okay, then I'm sure there'll be great change in the next 10 years.
Well, we're going to try.
And I'll be completely wrong.
Yeah.
But I mean, the trends can continue to nosedive, but let's assume for a second that like it all nosedives.
What does the future look like then?
Well, I don't think there'll be change until my prediction is we'll only see change when society crumbles enough for women to face the consequences of their decisions.
And what happens then?
Then there might be change.
That's what I'm saying.
Okay, but I would say I would predict that things go down until things are falling apart enough, and then maybe there'll be a policy change.
Maybe not.
Probably not.
Meaning we can fix the problems, right?
Not anytime soon.
No, no, but when we reach this like plateau.
Sure.
So then wouldn't it logically follow then that we should accelerate the decline as quickly as possible to reach that plateau to fix these things?
Sure.
If that's sure.
So then that's an accelerationist mindset, right?
I'm not saying one way or the other.
I'm saying I don't see them changing anytime soon.
That's it.
I don't.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I don't think in my lifetime there'll be majority.
But ultimately, do you want to see them change?
It would be nice.
Yeah.
So then if that, if that's the case, I'll just assume the position for a moment, your position of just descriptors, here's where we're going.
It would still be really wise to have men's rights advocacy groups and things like this in place for this inevitable decline so that those types of policies can then be pushed so that we're like ready for them, right?
Sure.
But the first one was in 1910.
So I don't, if we're where we are today and the first one was over 100 years ago.
The first what?
Policy?
No, the first men's right to advocacy.
I think it was around 1910.
I don't know the yeah, but they were advocating for completely different things, right?
I mean, I saw ones about divorce law early in the 1900s off the top of my head.
I don't know, but yeah, yeah, I mean, divorce, it used to be we had coverture laws.
So, I mean, coverture laws basically in that case, you had to have show cause in order to get divorce under coverture laws, things like that.
It was most of the early 1900s, I believe.
So, the thing that's interesting, though, is like my point is, I just don't see it being effective because the last hundred years, it's gotten worse, not better.
So, why would I think?
Okay, go ahead.
Yeah, yeah, but I mean, ever.
So, the thing is, is like things have gotten better.
Abortion laws have been rolled back, right?
But planning advocacy has gone up.
True, only in some states, though.
I went and checked the stats on that as well.
Sex work has gone up too.
But you know what else is going down is female promiscuity and male promiscuity over time.
And what's interesting, but STD rates are up.
So, how do you explain?
Because sex work is up.
Okay.
Well, if that's what you, if that's not what the guys dating are saying, but okay.
Yeah, because they're dating women who have only, I mean, you're talking about like one in 10 or 1 in 20 now.
It can happen to OnlyFans.
The sex work epidemic has exploded STDs.
I mean, we can look at this objectively.
When's the last time you dated?
Like, when's the last time you actually dated?
Oh, it's been fucking, I don't know, like, what, 17 years or something?
So, how do you, how do you think you know better than the guys dating?
Like, what's out there?
I mean, when's the last time you dated?
Like, um, a year ago.
Okay, so from your, so from your sample size, you think that in 17 years, the marketplace for dating has changed so much that I'm not allowed to have any input in it.
Oh, no, come.
I just don't think you really know what's on the ground if you haven't done it in 17 years because it's changed.
The advent of social media has changed the dating marketplace a lot.
Like a lot.
Yeah.
Why do you think?
Wait a second.
Back up.
I don't understand why you think that you couldn't have input and research the stats.
I'm using the same stats you're using.
Like it's not, and I have the same conversations with thousands of people you have, men and women both.
The same exactly the same amount of anecdotal evidence and statistics, right?
Sorry, what I what I could say, maybe a better way to say it is I think it's like an oversimplification of the problem when you're saying, oh, it's just like bad women that these guys are dating.
Like, I don't really think it's that.
That's not what I said at all.
Or it's what I said is that it's just sex worker women that these guys are dating, right?
No, that's that would account for one thing, STDs.
The STD rates.
Yeah, okay.
Yeah.
So what I said, what I said gave you was the answer that you're always looking for.
They men get out of marriage the same thing they always got out of it, a family.
And why is it that men are always gravitating towards family?
Well, it seems to be biologically hardwired in them because they've always done that.
Sure, it is.
So if that's the case, their happiness levels intrinsically tied to that.
It seems that if you wanted to advocate for men, then you would be advocating the most for the idea of keeping marriage sacrosanct and also making sure that these things got reformed as quick as possible.
Okay.
If someone took your prescription, what is your, can you give me like step by step your prescription for how men, if you just get married, stay married, what's your prescription?
Well, first of all, I wouldn't say you keep on claiming this as all I'm saying, take a plunge.
That's totally fine.
Tell me your, what's beginning to end?
Where should they source?
I would look at these stats.
No, not the stats.
Where should they source the women from?
Like, what state should they go to?
What church?
I'm guessing you're going to say Orthodox.
Okay.
So I'll answer your question, right?
You're not going to find huge variances state by state.
You're just not going to.
Okay.
But you can definitely upgrade the chances of you finding a woman who's not going to have these behaviors, which you and I would both consider non-optimal.
So it wouldn't just be the Orthodox Church, Roman Catholic Church, and even Protestants, as long as the worship is more than one time per week, right?
Their marriage rates significantly go down.
If you get married as a virgin, you almost never get a divorce because your sample size is super low.
So are you saying they should find a virgin?
Or do you expect, do you think that's realistic nowadays to find a virgin woman?
Yeah, yeah.
No, no, no.
I'm giving you a step-by-step prescription of all the things you can do to mitigate risk.
Right, no, but I'm not saying mitigate risk.
I'm saying, do they download a dating app?
Are they going to go on Instagram?
How are they going to do it?
Okay.
So yeah, yeah.
So I'll walk through it, right?
But what we're talking about is risk mitigation.
So let's start with risk mitigation.
I want the dating process from beginning to end.
Oh, okay.
Well, give what?
You want me to give a dating process from beginning to end for every individual man on planet or okay, if a guy wants to go on your prescription?
No, the dating process is going to be very on region.
It's going to be varied on man.
It's going to be varied on what options are available.
But what you can look at is all the signs of the universals which mitigate risk.
What you're asking is for an absurdity.
It's like me asking step by step.
Well, tell me step by step, how do I become a successful podcaster?
Oh, I can't do it.
Every man.
Every woman.
How would you become a successful person?
I could do that pretty easily.
Do it.
No, but I asked you first.
And you don't have an answer because you don't have to.
Because it's an impossible question.
No, it's actually pragmatic.
Because if you ever have to say that.
It's not even pragmatic.
If you have a real plan for men, you have to have a step-by-step.
Like, what's step one?
Yeah.
So step one would be looking at the mitigation for risk.
That would be step one.
But you have to get a girl on a date first before you even get there.
No, you don't have to get a girl on a date to mitigate risk, bro.
Okay, well, I guess there's no risk if you never get on the date.
that's right.
So the thing is, if you're talking about walk away, So walk away.
Where is he sourcing the women from?
You're asking for a step.
Stop cutting me off.
I need to.
If you're asking a question, you've got to let me answer them.
But you're not answering the question.
What's the question?
But then you have to not talk while I'll answer it.
Okay, I'll try.
I'm a woman, so it's kind of tough.
Okay, go ahead.
Step-by-step process.
How does he get a girl on a date?
Where should he go?
Oh, get a girl on a date.
He would go online.
You'd have conversations with women everywhere that you went, the various things that we've always done to get women on dates.
Okay, so you go on the dating apps and get women on dates.
No, I didn't say that.
What did I say?
Repeat back what I said.
You said go online.
I assumed you were dating apps and talk to and talk to women.
Totally fine.
Yes.
Are you ever going to get a woman on a date, Pearl, if you don't talk to any of them?
Okay, so you talk to women and are you ever going to get a woman on a date if you don't talk to her?
Okay, so I want to keep going through the process.
No, I want to keep going through the process.
So you meet them on a dating app, okay?
Or you meet them.
I didn't say meet them on a dating app.
Okay, then can you tell me where?
Yeah, I would, all you have to do to begin the initial process of dating women is use whatever connections, resources you have to start connecting with various women.
You can use dating apps, sure.
That seems to be one of the most common ways that you do it.
But you can also use friends of friends.
You can use your family members.
You can use all sorts of different ways to connect with women the same way that men and women have been connecting forever.
Sure.
Except now you have also the online component.
Sure.
Totally fine.
So then what's next?
Do you take her on a date?
Is that what you're doing?
You can take her on a date, but usually the second step would be to be in the talking phase.
And inside the talking phase, you're able to actually identify many of these risk mitigating factors, which become immediately apparent in 90% of the conversations.
They become very apparent, the red flags or the risk mitigation.
I wouldn't take a woman on a date.
I would be in the talking phase with multiple women for an elongated period of time before I ever took one out on a date.
Okay, fine.
So, how long should they talk before they get to the date?
Well, it's going to vary from person to person.
Okay, but what would you suggest?
I would suggest that you talk to them until you feel like you've gathered enough information and intel on the mitigation of these red flags, and then I would take them.
Sure, you could take them on a date then.
Okay, and what information are you trying to get from them?
Well, that's great.
Glad that you asked that question for risk mitigation.
I'd be looking for things like, were you raised by a single mom, right?
What are your goals?
What are the structure in life that you're after?
Whether or not it is the case that you have a present father in your life, how many tattoos do you have?
That would be another good one.
Your promiscuity level, I do a little intel maybe around their Facebook, things like this.
See how many male friends they have?
There's tons and tons.
Okay.
The same things you know that women do.
Yeah, totally fine.
So now you get her on the date.
Are you trying to sleep with her?
Are you waiting till you're suggesting they wait till marriage?
Is that what you're saying?
Well, yeah, only if they want the best outcomes.
Yeah.
And they don't want to create single moms that they have to take care of their children.
Yeah.
So if she's not a virgin, are you telling them they should still wait till marriage?
I still would, yeah.
Okay.
If you're interested in a woman who's not a virgin, right?
Well, that's what I'm saying.
My assumption is the man's not going to be a virgin.
95%, right?
Yeah.
And most of the men aren't going to be virgins.
You're taking those women out either.
Okay.
That's the case.
Yes.
That is the dating market.
So you want men to pay a higher price for what other men got for free.
Oh, so okay.
Well, let's just grant this.
Let's say they don't, right?
You want men to sleep with a woman on the first date?
Can you answer my question and I'll answer yours?
Okay, so the answer is in the answer.
I'll explain it.
No, so do you think you don't like the answer?
You don't have to sleep with this woman to get to know her.
If you think that she's worth the risk and you think that she's worth it to, you know, stick around to sleep with later or to date long term, sure.
The problem that you have here is if we operate.
No, no, no, my turn.
If we operate off of your logic, right?
Should they, if a woman has ever slept with a man ever, should no man ever wait to sleep with that woman?
I think that's a good idea.
Or should it be?
You can sell that.
It's a tough sell.
So then you think that the woman, if you've ever had sex as a woman, you should just give it up?
Okay, so you want guys to make a moment.
Like answer the question.
I will answer that question.
No, you're not answering the question.
I will answer that question.
If a woman's ever had sex, every man she dates, should she fuck him?
I will.
No, I don't think so.
Okay.
So then you're saying she should make him wait.
I think there's certain men you can treat special, though.
And I think most men want to be treated special and not like other men.
So is every man you've ever gone on a date with, have you slept with him immediately?
No.
How about you?
How about you?
No, I don't sleep with any men.
No.
What was your dating experience like?
Did you wait?
I mean, if you want to go personally, of course.
I like to get to know people, things like this, of course.
But the thing is, that's my point.
My point is.
I don't want to go personal, but if you're going to, you know what I mean?
No, I'm not trying to be personal.
I'm trying to demonstrate a point.
Of course, you don't sleep with every man immediately.
That would be absurd.
Right.
That's not a personal attack.
Right, but women do sleep with men faster that they like.
Generally speaking, I think the same thing with men.
They generally faster if they like it.
How would a guy know the difference between a girl that's using him for resources or like just trying to use him for what for the lifelong provisioning or that actually likes him?
Well, every woman is going to be utilizing men to some degree for resources and historically always has.
The idea, though, that you can't mitigate these risks by taking a look at the entirety of their social media, doing a little social stocking, which is you're just looking around at their connections and things like this in order to see what the general trend is.
You can basically determine this fairly quickly.
In fact, men have become so savvy to this in the dating market, they're beginning the high rates of rejection now where they're like, nope.
So there's no way that's there's no women.
There's no women that at all could mitigate any of this.
I mean, the biggest hoes that I knew in school had pretty much no digital footprint, no social media.
None.
Well, I mean, no, because it's like a strategy, actually, because they want to get around.
Well, it's really difficult now.
Well, then even if that wasn't.
So it's like a small piece of money.
I would just put that as another red flag.
Oh, you have no social media presence?
Maybe that's another red flag.
But wouldn't you say that women are developing new strategies every year to get around some of that?
Totally.
But don't you think that some of the men that you're suggesting this to are going to get got?
Just balance the probability.
Yeah, but no matter what conditionals we make in society, some men are going to get got.
There's nothing you can do about that ever.
Doesn't matter if you had the perfect utopia, some men are going to get got.
Okay, so what percent, going through all these strategies, what percent of men do you think will get got?
I think that you can get.
You think it's 0%?
I think you can lower the risk mitigation down to somewhere around 15 to 20%, which is what we see in these types of elongated Christian marriages.
So you think about 20% of men will get got.
I think that 20% of men have always gotten got.
Why would a man take that deal?
Because they want to have a family, like they've always wanted to.
Right.
But, and do you think that if people stay married, that's automatically a successful marriage if they just don't divorce?
No, that wouldn't always meet the criteria for successful marriage.
So but hang on, by the same logic, you would have to agree then that not every time women want to get divorced, it's unjustified.
True.
I agree.
So if that's the case, then you have an equal wash there.
So the idea here is what do we want for a stabilized society, which makes sense to have maximum happiness.
It seems to be marriage.
Right, but you're switching it back to what's in it for society.
And I keep trying to stick to what's in it for the individuals.
Men are society.
Right.
Men run society.
Do you really think that a 20% failure rate where a woman could potentially really ruin his life for 18 years?
Like, I mean, I've talked to like a good percentage of.
What failure rate's acceptable?
1%?
I think one is too many.
When you have a quarter of men raising kids that aren't theirs, I think one time that happens is too many.
That's utopian.
That's literally utopian thinking.
So if there's ever a case that a man can get got, then you would just recommend it.
It's so silly.
That's utopianism.
That's impossible.
It's like saying no men should ever drive cars because they might get in a wreck.
It's like it's going to happen.
I wouldn't say that's the same because I would say a car wreck, it is not likely that you're going to be enslaved to that car for 18 years.
And I think maybe I just have a different point of view because I've seen men on the brink of suicide, Andrew.
And I've seen men like, like one of the worst, I've told you this story before.
One of the worst marriage divorce stories I ever saw was a guy that took pretty much your advice.
Okay.
Which was what?
What's my advice?
What you say?
He waited till marriage.
He met a girl in a Latin Catholic mass church.
He had the temperament.
He thought she was the right person.
And she, it was actually really difficult.
She took his kid.
She was actually Eastern European.
So she was Eastern Europe.
So she was actually raised to be a wife and she came to the U.S.
He met her in California.
And she stole the kid and took him back.
She won custody.
She took him back.
And he spent $300,000 trying to get her back.
He went into a war zone trying to get his kid.
Yeah.
Now the kid is like six.
He hasn't seen him in years.
The kid doesn't recognize him and he speaks Russian.
How is he happy?
You'll, yeah, but I know, and it's easy.
I think it's easy maybe for you to like wave it away and just say, well, like that's horrible.
Men's horrible.
Men, it doesn't matter.
Like, don't even think about that risk.
But what I've seen.
No, think about that risk.
Right.
But you're saying, but do it anyway.
And I'm saying I can't tell you what to do because that is an astronomical risk that I understand is if you as a man don't want to take that, I like, I completely understand.
Another issue.
So here's the alternative.
Can you let me finish?
So another issue too is like the waiting.
Waiting until marriage.
I mean, you go on monologues too a lot too.
Not long because you gotta be a little bit of a marriage.
The other thing is one out of three women have STDs.
So you could sex work.
No, not necessarily.
Yeah, we can look at the height of the promiscuity.
The sexual revolution wasn't even close.
It wasn't even close.
Yeah, but a lot of normal women have STDs too.
They do.
Yeah.
And they all have to do.
Yeah.
True.
So to men.
They usually give it a promiscuous sex as well.
Right.
But that's back to the what about the men, though.
We're talking about.
It's not what about the men.
I'm just giving an accounting for this for how this works.
So STDs would be a good idea for not having promiscuous sex.
But if the idea is like because some men are going to have catastrophic results and we can never mitigate that, I don't care what society you're in ever.
You're not going to be able to mitigate that some men are going to have catastrophic results.
That instead they should use women, basically, Ingon, and women, them, for purely sexual hedonistic needs.
If that's the case, then the very ideology of like, look at all these STDs, that explodes under that same ideology.
That's like silly.
It's counterproductive.
Well, under your strategy, they could marry a woman with herpes.
Yeah, under your strategy, they're going to get herpes anyway.
Not really, because if you wear a condom, it's less than 1% of men that are.
Then why are they exploding?
They're getting, they're exploding because men and women aren't wearing condoms.
But if you wear a condom, it's not the great, the likelihood of you getting something, especially as a guy, is pretty low.
So men are just stupid, don't know how to wear condoms?
I mean, some men, they really, yeah, they really should.
Yeah.
No, I don't think so.
I think that.
To be honest, yeah.
I mean, a lot of guys, they don't.
What's happened is promiscuity, especially in the sex, in the sex industry where STDs are 10 times higher, has now been gravitating towards women's bedrooms on OnlyFans and things like this.
They have a continuous chain of men who come in they're promiscuous with, and this has exploded the STD rate.
And by the way, I can prove this because at home, you see these explosive rates generally in the areas where there's what?
The most amount of sex workers.
It gravitates out.
You think it's all sex work?
It's not the women in college.
No, there's always been STDs, of course, that have been in the general public.
I'm talking about the accounting for the explosion in them.
Right.
But you don't think it's common on, say, college campuses for STDs to go around.
Of course, but that's always been the case on college campuses.
Right, right.
But saying that's always, I'm trying to operate in today, not the past, right?
Yeah, but I'm trying to give you a prism so that because you're acting like this stuff is new or that the mitigate or that risk mitigation is somehow new.
This has always been the case that men had to ritigate or mitigate risk when it came to marriage.
You're only talking about the selection of, well, you could get really fucked by the courts, which is true.
And that the courts are biased towards women, which is true.
I'm giving prescriptors for how we begin the process of changing those things.
What you do is you act as though these are brand new societal issues when they're actually not brand new societal issues.
I operate in today, so I try to focus on what's going on now.
Yeah, but can't you look to the past for prescriptions?
Right, but why not if the past, not if it doesn't matter.
It matters.
Okay, well, or we can't get prescriptors.
We can't get prescriptors of the future unless we look at societies which worked.
Right, but societies that don't exist today that are different than today.
I have to operate in I have to operate.
I'm not a lawmaker, so I have to operate in the society we have today.
Yeah, you're not a lawmaker, you're an influencer.
So you influence people into lawmaking or influence people towards laws or you to influence them towards better behaviors or things like that.
Influencers that think they have that kind of sway and power are just as delusional as the women that think that they're going to get a man that makes like $5 million a year.
That's my belief.
Yeah.
So you may think different.
That's just what I think.
Go ahead.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, well, I mean, the Democratic Party and the Republican Party seem to disagree.
They're buying up influencers left and right all over the country.
And it seems to be swaying a lot of localized elections.
So I think influencers must have some kind of, I don't know, influence, right?
Otherwise, why is it that the political arms of the various parties are doing everything they can to get them under their wig?
So ultimately, I think when we're talking about your kind of descriptive world, again, I don't even disagree with a lot of these descriptions, but if we apply Pearl Davis's descriptions, which do sound more prescriptive, why should men do X, right?
Well, it's like, okay, well, here's why.
And then you say, but here's the risk for that.
Okay, I agree.
There's the risk for that.
Well, now what?
I don't know.
Is that it?
Just like I said.
If a product is good, then people are lining up to buy it.
And so what you're doing is you're saying, no, no, there's no risk.
Men are lining up to buy this, but the stats just don't say that.
They don't.
So if you're right, then you're not rejected.
If you're right, then the marriage rate will go up and traditionalism will return.
I hope you're right.
Yeah, but don't you understand that the positive of your framing is completely rejected by me?
I'm not one of these guys who's making these crazy advocations for, hey, bro, just take the plunge, bro, and hopefully things will work out, bro.
That's the con ink guys who are saying, oh, this is all men's fault, this and that.
I'm talking about prescriptive mitigations to try to fix the issues in marriage.
The very thing men are screaming that they want more than anything.
And you just say, well, kind of just do what you want.
Here's the information.
Good luck.
It's like, okay, you can do that.
But then what account can you ever criticize any of those guys in the con ink party who give prescriptions?
How can you ever do that if you don't give a counter prescription?
Well, if their prescriptions are leading men to their death and men are nine times more likely to commit suicide because they don't warn them, I can criticize them.
Then what should they do instead?
Then what should they do instead, Paul?
I think they should make an informed decision.
That's the same idea, I think.
I think they should make an informed decision.
Why is a man immoral if he doesn't choose to get married?
It's decent.
So that's not immoral.
Okay, so then why are you arguing with me?
Yeah, well, the argument here is about men's happiness and what they get, right?
Not about whether or not it's moral if they get married or not.
I'm not saying it's immoral for men to not get married.
I could be.
Okay, then what's the disagreement?
The disagreement is on the prescription of why it is that marriage.
Well, here's the disagreement.
I'm trying to explain it to you.
I'm not saying that it's immoral for men to not get married.
I am interested in the happiness and longevity of men and their overall wellness, well-being, and health in the society I have to live in because I count on them to provide the security.
I count on them to provide all luxury.
I count on them to build all infrastructure.
And so, if men aren't doing well, none of us are doing well.
And so, if we're going to associate these problems and Con Inc. says, well, just take the plunge because society continues to go.
And Pearl Davis says men can just do whatever the fuck they want.
Then it's like, well, then how do you criticize anything prescriptively?
How do we get anywhere prescriptively?
It makes no sense.
Do you think men should do what you want?
I think that if prescriptively you move towards the type of society I advocate for, I think, yes, the wellness of men would do way better.
So men should do what you want and not what they want.
No, they should do prescriptively what's best for men.
Okay.
That's not that is true that I'm aligned with that.
Okay.
But that's not doing what I want.
That's doing what's in their best interest.
Okay.
So men should listen to you and not them, not what they want for their life, but what you want for their life.
Well, what did I just say?
I just said that what they want for their life is happiness.
And if I want for my life happiness also.
And if we're, we have a combined belief on the prescriptive things that would make us happy, then that's what men, including me, should move towards.
So you're saying, I read these stats.
I read these studies.
Now do what I say because I read these studies.
Go on, and Pearl Davis is doing the same thing.
I read these stats and studies, and everything's really bad for men.
So, I mean, if you want to, if you know, if you want to take the plunge of 20%, you might get fucked here.
And is it really worth it?
I'm not sure it's worth it.
I say you're a man.
It's your house.
You get to do what you want in your house.
That's out of order.
I'm not going to tell men what to do.
Well, you're not telling them what to do, but you can still.
Isn't it true that you can offer up prescriptions in society, which are good for society and good for men without telling men that they need to do those prescriptions?
Like, hey, prescriptively, if we did X, that might be really good for men.
That doesn't mean you're telling men what to do.
I can give my opinion if somebody asks, but that's not my job.
I'm here.
Did you lower the volume a little bit?
I don't know why I can hear him less now.
No.
No?
Could you talk again?
Testing, testing, testing.
Could you turn up my mic or like my headphones just a little bit?
Sorry.
But then you would say, you wouldn't say you should do it.
You would say you could.
But once you get into should, then you're going to be able to do that.
I would say any prescription which is going to be good for the overall health of men, they should be moving towards that.
Yes.
Right.
And so if it was moving towards the overall health of men, it would be an easy sell and men would do it.
And that, well, no, not necessarily.
Men have gone along with lots of different things, which were an easy.
They get drafted, and that has been an easy sell, but it definitely was not good for men.
What is this?
I think it might be here.
Sorry.
It's like buzzing now a little bit.
Okay, sorry.
So you're saying that men, well, yeah, but men in reward for protecting the country, they got a family that actually stayed together.
But today, that's not the norm.
No, they didn't.
In the Vietnam War, they didn't get that.
That's not the case.
They'd got that maybe post-World War II.
They weren't getting it after Korea.
They weren't getting it after Vietnam.
They're drafted for both wars.
They weren't coming home to a family or coming home and getting spit on, literally spit on.
And the thing is, is like, yes, men can be tricked collectively into doing things that are really bad for men's health.
But the idea here that we should not be prescriptive is that they're not.
Do you think they did it because it was like an adventure?
That's probably why, right?
Like, no, they didn't just want to go on an adventure.
They did it for honor.
Yeah.
I mean, and I would, but I would say at one point, society rewarded them for it.
Like now, white men are the least likely to be in the military, or it's like the lowest numbers in years.
Like men are dropping out of the military because they don't see what's in it for them anymore.
And, you know, it's interesting.
I think this, like, well, that's because there's no honor.
I think it's an interesting like sell on what you're trying to do.
Meet the women, wait for a not, wait till marriage for a woman that's not, pay a higher price than a previous guy, and you'll be married for a life.
I hope men, if you want to do that, so this is again, this is for you.
If you guys want to, if you guys, if you guys want to do that, pearl framing, if you want to do that, that's not actually what I said.
I'm not, I'm offering only an alternative to black pill.
And what am I saying?
Okay.
The same thing you are.
Men should be gravitating towards things which are good and healthy for men.
Men are gravitating towards families because they want them.
But if they didn't want them, they wouldn't be having them.
Who has more information on what makes a man happy?
You or him?
Like an individual man watching yourself.
This will be trivially true about any human being on earth.
So each man has more information to make decisions in his life than you do, right?
Well, no, that's not always the case.
But I would say, generally speaking, people tend to think or know what makes them happier than some guy they don't know.
Yeah.
So my, I don't know if I want to, can I use you as an example, but not say your name?
Can I use you?
Yeah, I can.
Okay.
So my producer's watching now, right?
He's listening to me talk.
Now he's listening to you for the first time and he's hearing your strategies for marriage, right?
Who has more information on how he should make a decision moving forward in his relationships?
You or him?
Yeah, so obviously him, but I'll also have more information probably on what's better for his relationships than you because I'm a man.
Totally, totally fine, totally fine.
But so who should make the decision?
Should he listen to your advice or should he listen to himself, what he thinks is best?
Well, so I would say that you also have to take into account that there's social responsibilities and honor that men have, duties that they're supposed to gravitate towards.
There are actual duties men have to gravitate to the people.
This is just like that.
I'm just tagging the duty.
Okay.
Well, what does he get?
You don't think men don't have duties?
What does he, I mean, why would you do something?
Like, men should just do nothing or what?
Well, why should they work hard for a society that doesn't reward them?
I have no problem.
I think that society should reward men.
It should, right?
But it doesn't.
Yeah, but it does.
It does actually reward men for hard work.
It doesn't always reward men for hard work with a family, though.
That's not the reward societies have ever given men.
Men secure their own stake for a lot of people.
They have rewarded military members the last 50 years.
They have?
Yes.
Sure.
Society has rewarded military members over the last 50 years.
Yes.
There's more.
During the Iraq war, for instance, there was a lot of honor that came back to the uniform.
And then post that now, there's less.
More men have committed suicide than all of the last that, sorry, more soldiers have committed suicide in the last 50 years than all of the world wars combined.
Yeah.
So society rewarded them?
No, that's not a social societal issue of society trying to punish them.
Iraqi war veterans, we're not getting spit on like Vietnam war veterans, some of them maybe, but it wasn't the same type of contextual.
I guess if society isn't here's why this happened.
This happened because of the tour.
So it used to be that soldiers were cycled out after one tour.
What happened during the Iraq war and Afghanistan war is they were going back for four, five, six tours.
They were completely broken.
This was something the military has recognized multiple times.
Society itself, though, demanded that these wars be stopped.
Ultimately, they demanded it.
That's why they put Trump in.
When you're talking about the social duties and responsibilities of men, it is a fact of the matter they do have them.
The idea here, though, This means that society rewards men with a faithfulness.
Is it going to end?
Is it going to end?
Okay.
I just, you're doing that to me.
So I got to, you know.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Fair enough.
So you think that men have been respected the last 50 years and honored in society?
No, that's not.
I didn't say that.
We're talking about the military, a specific example.
Okay.
But in general, do men get rid of it?
No, I think that men have been completely and totally disrespected as a bygone piece of garbage.
The entire idea here is to try to change that.
But you would understand the rationale for a guy that just says fuck it, right?
Because society doesn't reward him.
I under so here we can maybe come to some agreement.
Do I understand the rationale?
Yes.
Oh, yes.
I understand the rationale completely.
Does that mean that that's good for men, though?
No.
No.
Okay.
And clearly it does.
It clearly can't be because you say it can't be my own logic.
But you know what's best for an individual.
No, no, no.
You just, you actually just gave the prescriptions.
Pretty great.
You just said, well, so society is shitting all over men, and that's really bad for men, right, Andrew?
Yeah, I want to change that.
And you go, but wait a second.
So you think you know what's best for men?
It's like, well, if we both agree that society shitting on men is bad, then it appears we both think we know what's best for men.
That society shouldn't shit on them.
They wouldn't like that, right?
Right, but I don't predict it'll stop.
I wouldn't predict that it would change.
Well, I can predict it'll never stop if we don't try to do anything about it.
Well, I can make a 100% prediction it'll never stop if we don't try to do anything about it.
And run for office, right?
Go ahead.
Well, you don't just need to run for office.
What you need to do is influence people who are in office.
That's the main thing.
People forget.
It's the NGOs and it's the lobbyists who ultimately are going to be able to make these influences for change.
All right.
In the next year, what changes can I expect policy-wise?
Probably not much.
Okay.
So my producer has to make a decision in the next year.
What's he going to do?
Yeah.
Yeah.
So he has to make, should he look at the history?
Should he look at what might happen in the future?
Yeah, so if your producer is going to make a decision on marriage in the next year, I'd give him the same advice any rational human being would ever have.
Great.
You want to get married?
Make sure all of your risks are as mitigated as you can possibly make them so that you can move towards family like men have always historically done and are now getting much better at.
And then on top of that, Mr. Producer, you can expect within the next few years that you're going to start seeing even more changes in the marriage court.
And here's my proof: the number of kids living with their fathers has quadrupled from 68 to 2020 due to men's rights advocacy groups.
That seems to be good for men.
They can get access to their kids.
Quadrupled, Pearl.
What do you think is going to affect my producer or someone similar to him more?
Do you think you saying like these stats, or do you think what he's seen in real life is going to affect his decision making and what he thinks more?
People generally, I think, intuitively go off of experience first and then they mitigate, but they often mitigate experience when they start looking for answers for why things they've experienced have sucked.
So like bad thing happens and I hate it.
And so intuitively, I don't want anything to do with this again.
But then you start looking for answers for why bad thing happened.
You listing stats and shaming men is not going to be a matter of money.
No, I'm doing your shame.
I'm not.
That's a shaming tactic, I'm telling you.
And is not going to make men want to get married, and it's not going to make them not believe what they have seen.
How is it shaming men to tell men I care a lot about men's health more than anything else and would really like to see influencers start moving towards prescriptions so that they live happier lives?
How in the fucking world could you ever say in a million years that that's a shaming tactic?
Okay, sure, you're not.
Sure.
I mean, how?
Like, how do you make that step?
Now, I would say, on the other hand, there's a lot of people who are.
You're shaming men, especially you shame men for sleeping around.
It's impossible, guys.
You're way too fluffy.
You shame men for not living the way that you want them to live.
No, you call them.
You're not telling men they have to live how I want to live.
You call them degenerates.
You call them degenerates.
Yeah, if they're gays, they're degenerate, aren't they?
Pearl.
Okay, well, no, you call them degenerates if they sleep around.
Yeah, if they're highly promiscuous, I consider that to be degeneracy.
But I think even for those degenerate men, I want the best for health and resources for those men.
So, what about men that just want to live with a woman for 10 years and have sex first?
Are they terrible idea?
Terrible idea by every single metric.
Yeah, totally.
Totally degenerate.
And it's a terrible idea.
But a better idea is to wait till marriage and give a woman the ultimate honor that you could ever give a woman.
And she doesn't comparison of those two situations.
And she doesn't even have to have sex with you to get it.
They don't have to have sex with you if you live with them either.
What's your point?
The fact that living with a woman long term without marrying her, you end up anyway with these ideas of like common law marriage.
You can still get taken to the ringer on that.
The other alternative there is that the children are generally going to have terrible outcomes.
Between those two choices, absolutely, I would prescribe that marriage is better than those.
Even bad marriage would be better than those.
Okay.
Yeah.
So again, that's a tough sell.
I hope, I mean, maybe the men in the audience will buy it, right?
No, I think that mine was the good sell.
So I think the shaming tactic comes from the idea of you saying this is how I hear it.
What I hear is men are so fucking stupid they can't mitigate their own risks.
So just check out, guys, you're too fucking dumb.
And I think the opposite.
I think men are super fucking smart, and we can definitely do something inside of the societal social field to change the conditionals for men.
Who has more legal power, men or women?
In which context?
At the mercy of the system or at the mercy of changing the system.
All right.
Who do politicians cater to?
Men or women?
They generally cater toward women and children's needs first.
Yes.
Who does the legal system cater to?
Men or women?
Generally speaking, it's going to cater to the weaker sex and children.
Yes.
Who does the media cater to?
Men or women?
Yeah, same.
I can just answer yes to all the institutions doing this.
Okay.
So how, so if an individual man is going to outsmart this billion-dollar system, so they're too dumb to do it?
I would say they don't have power.
I wouldn't say dumb, but I don't know.
But don't men collectively have powers to overthrow entire systems via force.
Okay, but I mean, when you're talking in the abstract, that's like easy.
No, I'm talking in the instructions.
I want to go specific.
So my producer, he's listening, right?
So he's going to make a decision in the next five years about what he wants to do with his life, right?
Yeah.
And so he's listening.
Now, what power does he have if a woman throws an abuse claim at him?
What can he really do?
Yeah, so he can do the same thing that men have always done during any sort of claim for abuse.
He can mitigate risk.
You can do this via security cameras.
You can do this via the Pence rule.
You can do this via all sorts of various rules that men have instituted to protect themselves from false allegations of abuse.
Talking about inside of long-term relationships, that's really hard for women to prove.
Really hard for women to prove.
Even marital rape is hard for women to prove.
Those are not the things which men are getting tossed into jail for.
They're getting tossed into jail, getting their lives ruined for false allegations generally from strangers, not from women they're with long-term.
That's just simply not true because abuse allegations are brought up all the time in family court because it's based on a preponderous, it's not, you don't need evidence.
So they can just say things.
I mean, I worked on one case where she threw a rape allegation from the first night they met, and then 10 years later, she said that he raped her.
Court tells me that she won custody.
Listen, it is the case inside a family court that women will make up all sorts of shit for the custody of children.
Nobody's disputing that.
What I'm talking about specifically is the charges of abuse, which generally happens.
So, in family court, what happens is most women are filing or divorce not under an abuse claim, but under irreconcilable differences.
And the amount of them who are reporting abuse in the relationships actually is not nearly as high as you're presenting.
The amount of men who are high status who get their lives completely fucking destroyed by false allegations from strange women is extremely high, though, usually in the workplace, if they're in any way connected in the workplace, or if it is the case that they're a high-status man who goes on a date with a woman, that's when you start to see those accusations completely level men.
I'm not saying that doesn't happen in a family court.
But it does happen, it does happen in family court, correct?
Yeah, so women, women, women can throw a beautiful, and what can he do if he gets a very feminist judge?
Yeah, he's gonna get fucked.
Yeah, I agree.
Okay, so do you think he makes him stupid if he gets fucked?
Like, he's on the right.
No, I think that the, yeah, so, but what's the prescription?
What's the prescription would be to begin the process of changing family courts so that you don't have the feminist judges that still operate under the uh under the old rules of immediately goes to tick, tick, tick.
My producer, he's got to make a decision this year.
He's got to, what's he going to do this?
He's going to do now.
Should he should he bet that Andrew Wilson's going to fix the laws for him?
Should he stay alone for the rest of his life?
Because if he ever gets married, the woman's for sure going to give him an abuse claim and throw him in prison.
I didn't say that.
Is that there's a lot of I didn't say that.
I mean, that sounds like a terrible prescription.
Yeah, if you listen to me, I didn't say that.
But the way it's mitigating all risk possible.
Okay, so Pearl Davis, good luck, you're fucked.
Yeah, so that's the distinction.
But you see, what you're doing is you're making it seem like men have two options, which is sleep around or be married, right?
That's kind of the, I don't know if that's what you mean, but that's what you're making it seem like.
No, but there's a lot of people that are in like two-year relationships with a woman.
There's a lot of people that date casually, right?
They just go on dates.
They might sleep with one or two, maybe more than that, women.
Well, that sounds like casual sex to me.
Right, but then they pick their favorite and they get into a relationship and then eventually get married.
I mean, I'm sure, and I'm not trying to go personal, but I'm sure you know most people dated before like they met their previous like partners, their wife, right?
So, yeah.
And so it's not really one or the other, right?
It's not like degenerates and not.
So when does someone become a degenerate?
Like, when does that line, like, when are they beyond the point of return?
Yeah, so.
So when you hit this idea of like, yeah, when you hit a fallacious threshold fallacy, like when does a thing become the thing, right?
We know that there's degenerates.
Can I give you the exact number of dicks a guy has to suck before he's going to?
Well, that would be just one, I guess.
Do I have to give you the exact number of chicks a dude fucks before he's considered societally a degenerate?
I don't think I need to.
I think that's pretty intuitive.
We know what degeneracy looks like.
You don't think so?
I mean, I don't think that's a good idea.
Okay.
So here, here, I'll just pose it to you if you don't think so.
I mean, there's a lot of guys.
A guy is in a gangbang.
He's in a gangbang, right?
With it's him and three of his friends, and they're all fucking one chick.
Is he a degenerate?
I mean, what is he?
Is he doing those every week the rest of his life?
No, he's just decided to go in and do it, right?
I personally, I don't tell men what to do in the bedroom.
I think I prefer the don't ask, don't tell.
Like, I just don't, you can do what you want.
Yeah, well, I mean, I prefer not to have STDs floating out of society because people are getting in gangbangs and they're maybe saved their home and the libertarian idea of like, we're not going to go to the bathroom.
That doesn't affect you.
How does that affect you?
Yeah, it affects me.
How does that affect you?
I live in this society.
How does that mean?
You don't have an STD, right?
I have children.
I have cousins.
I have family.
I've also got to do that.
And that's actually what I was trying to get at is conservatives want men to save society for their children.
And that's the point.
You don't ask what's in it for them.
Wait, wait, wait.
Wait a second.
I'm sorry.
And that's the point.
Don't you want us to save society for men?
I think people need to make decisions based on the information they have about their own life.
Yeah, so I am not.
I am not.
I'm going to finish and then you can go.
Go ahead.
I am realistic, and I think it's better to be prepared than be blindly optimistic.
So things I would personally prepare for, your kids are probably going to, like, your kids will probably go to school with women that do OnlyFans.
That is probably going to happen.
Yep.
And it's better to prepare and have a plan than it is.
And to try to stop it.
I don't think it's effective to stop it.
Oh, I don't think it's it.
I think it is effective to stop it.
Not only that, again, the framing is in.
Kazanala.
It's not that conservatives are trying to.
Sorry.
Kazanala.
Conservatives are not trying to save.
I mean, maybe the TPUSA conservatives are trying to save society for the sake of their children.
But even if that was the case, like good, that's good.
But that aside, no.
What I'm trying to do is save men in society.
Men.
I think men, the patriarchy, is the most necessary component to society's functioning.
And so if you want to have men who are in a patriarchal role who are governing society, then you're going to have to prescriptively move men towards that.
That's the only way to do it.
Can a man like social bastardization of this whole thing?
Your framing continuously goes back to, well, conservative men want to save society for their children.
Yeah.
And like, right, but what does the average man get out of that?
And that's the point.
They get a society to live in.
Right.
So I just want to know when you think about it.
Do you think men live in like bubbles in a forest or do you think that they live in societies which are governed by social relationships?
Okay, so when are these changes going to happen?
Like when yeah, but answer my question first.
Do you think that men live in isolated bubbles or they live in a social dynamic society filled with interpersonal relationships?
Well, the average man doesn't have many friends.
He's like three or less, I think.
Yeah, but they have friends and they have family members and they still have to engage in society.
You have to go buy a fucking cheeseburger, right?
They got to go buy a cheeseburger and not get pickles on it.
Every stat shows that men are actually checking out a society.
Yeah, that's bad, though, right?
That's not good.
Like we want to change that, right?
Right, but I would say it's pragmatic because they're realizing that.
Pragmatism is bad.
Okay, well, hope isn't a strategy.
And I think you're kind of trying to do is sell hope.
And I think it's better to be aware of that.
The pragmatic argument that you're making right now is like, guess what?
No men would ever be in pain ever again if they all shot themselves in the head either, would they, Pearl?
I don't think that's the same thing.
That would be the ultimate form of pragmatism.
I don't really think that's the same, but hey, you know.
No, no, that's just pragmatism taken to its logical conclusion.
So I want to stop all suffering of men.
They all go bye-bye.
They're all dead.
Now there's no more suffering of men.
I said, men, look at the facts and make a decision.
And you can make a decision for yourself.
I'm here to report the facts.
And that's the same as shoot yourself.
Okay.
I mean, no, that's not.
No, no, no.
You're making all you do.
Wait for the born-again virgin, guys.
That's totally going to get you.
Nobody made that.
That's what you said about it.
It's just lying now.
It's just reframing.
That is what you said.
Reframing and total bullshit.
Never said, guys, wait for the born-again virgin.
In fact, I'm the one wrecking those fucking broths.
What are you talking about?
The thing, I've never made any such prescription.
It's always reframing.
Can I edit it here?
Because the thing is, can I edit it where I asked you?
I could have edited it earlier because you did say that the way you would suggest men dated was to wait till marriage, even if the woman wasn't a virgin.
You did say that.
Yeah, that has nothing to do with born-again virgins.
It's just that's your pragmatism of a social mitigation for bad thing happening.
That's it.
It's all a matter of mitigation of risk.
The idea that I said that you need to wait for a born-again virgin, fucking absurd.
Never said it.
The reason you have to reframe this is because what should I call them?
Okay.
Wait for a woman that gave it to others.
I'm advocating for men's happiness, men's rights, men's health.
And the only thing you can think of to do is to consistently attempt to reframe it into somehow, I'm telling men to take some plunge with some fucking skank born-again virgin.
Fuck that.
I'm talking about the mass mitigation of risk and the change to a system.
All right, guys, I know she slept with your ex-boyfriend.
Okay.
I know she slept with her ex-boyfriend.
Here comes the straw man.
I know, I know she, okay, okay.
Should men wait till marriage?
You said yes, right?
Yeah.
Yeah, generally yes.
Even if the woman isn't a virgin.
If it is the case, so you want men to do whatever they want.
That if man really likes the woman.
Don't do whatever you want.
Do it, Andrew.
Do what Andrew says.
If it is the case.
My producer, he's taking notes now.
He's going to follow your plan.
Yeah, yeah.
So if the man really likes the woman, men should do whatever it is that they want, right?
Then under then under your feasible system, a man should just fuck a chick because he feels like it, right?
It's like, that's untenable, one.
And two, yes, is it okay for a man to hold his own integrity intact and still be in love with a woman who slept with a man before and have good outcomes?
Yes, of course it is.
So now you're shaming men for wanting to sleep with women outside of marriage.
And that's what I said.
You're the one shaming men because you're the one saying that they're degenerates if they don't have outcomes.
Even though statistics outcomes for men who maintain virginity and marry women with low body counts or virgins have really good outcomes.
I am super, you know what?
You'd have to show me the study.
I am super sure that when the woman is not a virgin and the man is, that is a recipe for disaster.
Listen, you're right that the risk is.
But it's still, but it's still mitigated.
It's still, hang on, but it's still mitigated by the fact that if they have a lower body count, right?
Within the threshold of one to three, right?
It does mitigate risk significantly.
Is it always best to have a virgin?
Sure.
But guess what?
Unfortunately, in the world that we live in, that's probably not what you're going to get.
You're probably not going to get a virgin who's a man either.
But you can still mitigate all kinds of risk.
What does he get?
Why do you think?
What does he get?
What does he get?
He gets.
So one more time, I'll explain what men get out of this.
Even though you keep asking the question, I answer it.
They get what they say.
Because you're so you get such bad answers.
You're like, here's a bad deal, guys.
You got a bad deal before.
Here's another marriage.
Not only that, here.
I say I've got a lot of money.
What have men ever gotten?
Men, you've always gotten one thing ever gotten.
You've always gotten it bad, so you should continue to get it.
Answer the question, Pearl.
Don't dodge, Pearl.
What have you made?
Men, men.
Translation, men.
Not answering.
Notice, audience, she's not answering.
Notice, audience, notice he's not answering either.
I did answer.
I answered 15 times.
Now, here's my question to you after I gave you the answer.
What have men ever gotten?
Okay, 100 years ago, average six to eight children.
I believe this is off the top of my head.
So you only care about, that's caring about children, not about me.
I'm not done.
I'm not done.
Caring about children, not about men.
He got, well, I'll finish.
He got a virgin wife who had been with nobody else who stayed with him.
Wait, I thought that women's behavior was ingrained and that they were always fucking men, according to you, and that the men just didn't know it.
They might have been.
They might have been.
But at least it sounds like if women did at the time, it was not as widely known as it is today.
If women did.
They may not have.
I wasn't there.
I'm not going to speak.
I know, but that's what you said last time.
You said, no, they were still screwing around even then.
According to the facts, well, I mean, there's genealogy records that show that women did step out.
Like, there's people that have done genealogy records, and a lot of times it was the neighbor or something like that.
I'm not going to go back and forth about 100 years ago because I live in men.
I never forget, Pearl.
I live in.
But that doesn't matter.
And that's the whole point.
You keep going back into, you keep going back to 100 years ago.
I live in the now.
I don't care what you're doing.
Yeah, I know.
You just asked me this question.
I don't care.
I know, but you keep, but you keep deflecting.
You say, here's the thing.
But you keep deflecting and bringing up the past.
You're like a woman bringing up the past.
You just need to answer the same question that I do.
Who cares?
Who cares about 100 years ago?
Andrew, you're not giving me answers.
Here's my answer.
Give me one, Pearl.
What did they get?
What did they ever get?
Right.
I don't care about 100 years ago.
That's right.
I care about it.
You've gotten it.
I care because you're talking about the past.
What do they get today, Andrew?
What do they get?
They get the same thing they've always gotten, which is a family, the thing that seems to make men the most happy.
Unless you can name something else that men were getting before that.
And I'm all ears.
Do women stay today?
Do women stay today?
On average, do women stay today?
At lesser rates than they used to.
For sure, they do.
But if you're asking, do women different questions.
But they don't, but they don't, but they don't get it.
They don't get it.
Yeah, but a lot of businesses.
They don't get it.
That's a lie.
They do get it.
No, they don't.
A lot of men do.
Yeah, I just gave you the stats.
And by the way, if you're talking about, again, even when it comes to guardianship, it's quadrupled.
If you're talking about marriage in a Christian sense, 25% divorce, low body counts, even less.
Are more people getting married today or less?
Less.
I'm glad.
Less secularists are getting married.
Good.
Fuck them.
Okay.
Fuck them.
I don't care if they get married or not.
Right, but this isn't a religious channel, right?
Because you're trying to.
I'm not saying it's a religious children.
You're trying to peddle your religion, right?
And that's kind of what I'm saying.
I'm trying to peddle outcomes.
Why do I care if secularist men who are hedonistic want to get married or not?
It's irrelevant.
The future belongs to those who reproduce, and it's not going to be those who don't get married because they go, well, the thing is, is that I don't feel like I'm getting anything that men haven't always gotten for this.
And the one thing you could name, same thing I could name, they get children.
When I said it, you said, well, Andrew, that's you.
Who did the kids voting?
Who did the kids belong to?
Who did the kids belong to?
Stop, Pearl, my turn.
Who do the kids belong to?
But you do.
Yeah, yeah.
You don't let me.
It's my turn.
Who did the kids?
Who did the kids kill?
Yeah, you won't even let me answer.
Who did the kids belong to?
It's a little bit more than a moment.
You're just reframing.
Stop reframing.
It's one-word answer.
It's a one-word answer.
Who do the kids?
Whatever kids belong to.
I wasn't talking.
Who do the kids belong to?
Yeah, Pearl, Pearl, one more question.
Can you answer?
Can you do it?
Can you do it?
Yeah, it goes to the state.
Right now, the children belong to the state.
Yeah, that's terrible.
That sucks.
But what did men get?
So when women get out of the way, the children belong to the state before they belong to the king.
They belong to the king.
Yeah, you say it's bird because you cut me off every five seconds.
Yeah, because you don't have a good answer.
They don't get a family.
Yeah, I gave you the same answer you gave me, which is hilarious.
Right.
By the way, same answer.
They don't get a family because women divorce.
Pearl, Pearl, can you answer my question?
Don't spur.
What's your question?
Okay.
Can you not bring up ever got it?
Can you answer my question?
Don't spurling.
Stop spurging.
Stop spurging.
I'm just going to answer the question.
Let me ask it before he starts spurging.
What have men ever gotten, Pearl?
I don't care.
I don't care about history.
Yeah.
I don't care.
Yeah.
He has to.
Men today have to make decisions off of the information today, Andrew.
It doesn't matter what they got.
It's like, what do they get today?
Yeah, they get what they've always gotten.
Okay.
Well, if you want to keep convincing men to wait for born-again virgins, totally fine.
I hope you're not going to be able to do that.
Can you ever tell me where I told any man ever to wait for a born-again virgin?
Okay.
Why do you keep making that shit up?
Like, why?
What do you want to ask?
What do you mean?
What do you want to ask for?
Okay, you want men to wait for non-virgin women, correct?
No.
I never said that either.
I'm talking about the mitigation of the bank.
Yeah, and here's the thing.
You can clip it, right?
But I'll counterclip.
You won't like what you see because I didn't say that.
I'm talking about the mitigation of risk.
And when you're talking about the mitigation of risk, it still is actually less risky.
Yes.
Right.
Less.
So I want to go to the moment.
Is that it's optimal?
No.
So you want men to find out.
Do you want to learn between optimal and risk?
Do you understand like risk mitigation versus optimal?
So you want men to find women with below, what, a three-body count?
Is that what you're suggesting?
No, just less bodies better.
Okay.
So what would you say should be the cap?
I mean, yeah, again, we're talking about risk mitigation.
Okay, sure.
You're asking for something which is a specificity, right?
Okay.
So how many, for instance, if I ask this question to you, how many women are, or should you ever sleep with a woman who's fucked 100 men?
Should a man ever do that?
Could you answer the question?
Yeah, yeah.
But it's actually answering by showing you how fallacious the actual question is.
Okay.
So the fallacious, what you're saying is, Andrew, give me a threshold.
I'm not here to give you a threshold.
I'm here to tell you about the mitigation of risk.
The less bodies, the better.
Yes.
Does that mean, though, that if you have a high body count woman, it can't work out?
No.
How would men verify that?
Well, here's the thing.
You asked me this last time.
It was kind of funny, right?
So they would verify it the same way they've always verified it.
They would look at reputation.
They would look at past history.
They would talk with friends.
And you know what's really interesting?
I went back and I took a look at this.
And it turns out that when men investigate these things and poignantly ask these questions, they actually do get a lot of these answers very quickly.
You can't actually verify this based on reputation.
Okay.
So if a woman had a past in a different city, how would the man know?
Or she does something.
She does.
Social media, families, big mouth sisters, big mouth friends, all the other ways that she would always be.
But if she downloads a dating app, how would the guy know?
Yeah, but you can endlessly reduce this hypothetical to the point where you can just continuously add variables.
Like, what if a woman was in a forest and her plane went down?
She was on a desert island for three days and the news never broadcast it.
Could she have slept with a man then?
Yeah.
But I'm saying that again, when it comes to risk and mitigation, you can do investigation the same way women do with men, by the way, to find out their body count.
And you can, in fact, suss out fairly quickly if they have a high one or not.
Does that mean always?
Right.
So you think most men, you think most men can figure it out pretty easy how many people she slept with.
Not how many precisely, but whether or not she slept with more than he's comfortable with or has a reputation of lying about sleeping around, which would be red flags, right?
Okay.
So you think that's pretty easy.
So how would he, so you, you just, you can just ask around and then men will tell him.
No, well, here's the thing about women that's great, right?
They never shut the fuck up.
So the greatest thing about them is they like to narrate their lives and they like to do that, especially with their friends.
Right.
And women also, like their friends, like to cause trouble.
If you start poking around inside of a woman's female circle, they start blabbing about all kinds of shit about exes, where they've been, where they haven't been.
They do this constantly.
Okay, so I want to get back to the because we never finished the step-by-step, so I'd really like to finish that.
So you want men to wait for the non-virgin women, correct?
No, I don't.
No.
So you want them to sleep together?
Not my position.
What's my position?
Tell me what my position is.
You said that you wanted men to wait till marriage.
I said that would be more optimal for men's health to do X thing is not a prescription that they should do X thing.
So just because it mitigates risk for you as a man to, if you fall in love with a woman, right, for her to have a low body count, that still mitigates your risk is not me prescribing that you go find a woman who's not a virgin and marry her.
That's absurd.
We're talking about the outcomes here, the pragmatic approach.
But practically, what percent of women do you think are marriageable?
What percent?
That's hard to say.
I don't know.
I mean, as a practice, as a practical person, this whole debate, and you didn't even think about this question at all.
No, I thought about the question, but it's a very difficult question to notate how many exactly.
Like, how many women have red hair?
I don't know.
How many women have red eye?
I don't know the actual answer.
You've interviewed somebody.
But I still think that somewhere around at least 20, 25% of eligible marriageable women within the element of marriageable men is a good distinct possibility they work out because that's what the stats show me.
That almost, almost 60% of these marriages actually do work out long term if they're under the right conditionals.
Well, if they're religious, right?
No, no, no.
That significantly increases it from 60%.
Okay.
Okay.
So you want men to find these 20.
So the majority of women are not going to work, right?
So you're saying to men, you get, you might find out of one out of four women, you might get a wife.
No, no, no.
I was talking about the totality of the population.
Okay, fine.
But if you insert risk mitigation for marriageable women, right?
Then your odds are actually drastically increased.
You think one out of four women have a body count under 10?
No, I didn't say that either.
But you said marriageable.
But I mean, I think men should accept.
Do you think men should accept more than 10?
Well, here, let's just be able to get a lot of money.
Do you think men should accept more than five?
Well, how many women have less than a five?
I don't.
Yeah, but I don't trust stats that women report.
Oh, okay.
So now, so now, so now whatever the data says, it's wrong, too.
I mean, if women say it, yeah.
Come on.
If it's asking women about body count, come on, Andrew.
You got to be realistic here.
Yeah, it looks like it's somewhere the average of it is about 50% of women by the time they're marriageable age have less than a five body count.
Yes, that's what I'm looking for.
But you have been out of the dating market too long, Andrew.
This is the stats I'm looking at.
All right, guys.
Yeah.
And now we're looking at marriageable age, which is going to be between the age of 19 and 29, right?
So we're looking at marriageable age for children.
Now, is that the case?
I don't know if that's the case.
But ultimately, who cares ultimately anyway?
The truth is that even if it's damaged, who cares about body counts?
That's not what I said.
Who cares anyway about the topic?
No, no, no.
At the topic at hand, the case of the matter is that even if none of them right now were marriageable and they were all fucking skanks and they all had dozens of bodies, we would still be trying to move society towards a reform of such a system and not try to blackpill a nihilism all.
That would be stupid.
Ultimately, when we look at males, men's happiness, they want to get married.
Okay, okay, fine.
I want to get back to the step-by-step.
You're happily married.
Let's get to the step-by-step.
For what?
We're getting stuck at the waiting.
So, what's after that?
So, then you marry her.
I don't understand.
What is the question you're asking me?
If you're giving a prescription, I want a detailed how to do it.
Oh, well, what you do is you get a club and you walk over to a chick and you bash her in the fucking head and you take her back to your house and you bang her, right?
That's a detailed step-by-step plan, or did you maybe want to talk about viable prescriptions rather than viable?
Andrew gives dating advice, which has nothing at all to do with the conversation moving men towards marriage ability.
Yeah, but you're okay.
So, if you want men to get married, you can't tell them how to get there?
Really?
That's fucking stupid.
What are you talking?
Why would I need to be a determining factor for every individual man on earth for a step-by-step guide of how they get married?
That's fucking retarded.
Okay, well, like that's literally retarded.
Why would you like to?
My producer's on the market, 40-year-old guy in the Midwest.
What should he do?
There you go.
Lose weight.
Okay, then what?
I would start with that.
I'm kidding.
Look, I took a cheap shot because it was funny.
I like the guy.
I like the guy.
I thought it was funny.
I forgot it was funny.
I thought you met him.
Yeah, yeah.
Look, he's skinnier than me.
I'm just joking with the guy.
I was kidding.
Okay, fine.
Totally fine.
Yes, of Jim.
That's right.
I don't know.
I don't know what the intricacies of his life are.
Every single individual is going to have a completely different.
So he should make the decision and not you, right?
No.
Based on where people are in the distinctions of their life.
Well, yeah, I mean, ultimately, everyone's going to make their own decision.
But hang on, stop.
I'm going to answer your fucking question.
Each individual person on planet Earth is going to have a unique set of circumstances, which because I'm not an omnipotent God nor psychic, have no ability at all to understand in a comprehensive way.
But I can still, even though I know that, that I'm not going to be able to tell how everybody on the road drives, I can still tell you that a stop sign fucking works.
Right.
So if that's true, why do you talk like one?
Like what?
Like you talk like you're the God that knows like the best way for people to do it.
I've never done that one.
In fact, I just told you that I would not sit here and get away with that.
I mean, you call people degenerates.
You call people degenerates if they don't live exactly how you live.
No, I'm not asking them to live exactly how I live.
That's ridiculous.
Yeah.
I mean, yes, if you're a home president, I just think people are tired of getting preached at, Andrew.
Yeah, I mean, I think that people are tired of you enabling the degeneracy of homosexuality because you won't give a prescription, right?
What power do I have to stop them?
You have the power of the vote, the power of influence.
And not only that, here's the other thing that's so funny about this, right?
Like what power do I have to do?
Asking for, when you ask for, hang on, real quick before we get to that, when you ask for these like detailed, give me a step-by-step guide.
Pearl, you have a job.
You're a podcaster, right?
Give me a step-by-step guide for how everybody on planet Earth gets to work.
As a podcaster?
No, just as anything.
Well, I don't know how to do anything.
I know how to do podcasts.
No, no, just how do people, how does every person on planet Earth get to work?
Every one of them.
I could tell you how to do it.
No, just ever.
Just ever.
Anywhere in any circumstances.
I wouldn't say that's really the same, but okay.
It's the same.
You're asking me to write a prescription for every single individualistic circumstance on earth for every man.
That's insane.
Well, I know, but I gave you like what more information?
You could ask more questions and I could give you specific answers.
I don't even have to use my producer.
I mean, why?
First of all, if I was going to give a quote, like if I was going to do the podcasting one, like I would have a set of questions that I could easily give you a step-by-step question.
So, you can't tell based you can't tell based on general circumstance, but you need to have a question.
So, then ask me individual excuse me.
So, ask me, ask me a few questions, and then I can give you an answer.
Yeah, right, exactly.
That's my whole point.
So, when you asked me for a prescription for every man on earth, I didn't say every man on earth.
I could individually ask each of them a bunch of questions.
I didn't say every man on earth, but we can do a hypothetical guy.
Then, why don't we do a hypothetical?
It should be easy.
Give me ask me a few questions.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So, here's the thing: I'm not okay.
So, I'm trying to answer.
You're not, I'm not a dating coach.
I've never said that I was a dating coach.
But the thing is, I don't build highways either, but I sure know when the highways fucked up, Pearl.
Okay.
So, you don't have any.
No, I've answered every single question.
You don't understand how fallacious even the arguments you're making are, but how absurd the questions become.
It's absurd for me to, if you're giving a prescription, which I'm not, but you are, it's absurd for me to ask questions of how to get there.
No, you can ask whatever question you want, but just understand that when I equate it to you're trying to get, you get me to give a prescription for every man on earth, which is stated multiple times, and you're then you change it to, well, this one individual man based on his unique set of circumstances is going to change and vary from person to person to person to person.
It's like asking me, what kind of car should a man drive based on his unique set of circumstances?
I don't fuck with you.
Did you?
I mean, okay, so did you meet my like dad when you were here?
Did you meet him?
I don't know if you don't know.
I don't.
So, my dad, he's worked in.
Okay, you might have maybe didn't.
He's worked in software for like 30 years.
He's a really pragmatic guy, right?
Yeah.
And the equivalent of what you're saying is like, if you had an opinion on his software breaking, I mean, it's cool.
And then you say, oh, well, this is what you should do with the software.
And he would say, okay, well, how do I do it?
And then you say, well, I can't give you an answer, you know, and then like he would just think you're an idiot.
Oh, and it's the same.
It's the same.
So like, if it's the same.
If a person was on YouTube and was like, hey, I wouldn't, I know, I know, I know it.
I know what you're going to like.
Yeah, I know what you're going to, you're going to try to equate it.
So, and that's kind of what you're doing.
You're saying YouTube should have a life.
Oh, yeah.
Do you know how to put one in?
No.
Well, then you shouldn't tell them that they should have a life.
I just, in my opinion, my opinion is you've just kind of been out of the dating game too long.
Maybe.
And I think you would get eaten alive.
Like, I think if you believe that half of women have three bodies, I don't know how you believe that for doing like whatever.
I know, but you're literally not what I said.
Why do you think that's a good idea?
Okay, okay, the body count.
The body count stats that you cited would be so to ridiculous to any guy actually.
They may be.
Listen.
They may be.
I don't really literally say just based on what I know.
I know, I know.
I know.
But I don't even know how you believe them with like being on whatever all the time.
I didn't say I believed them.
Okay.
Like, I've never said any of this.
I don't know if the best approach is going to, I don't know if your prescription is working in the modern world.
I think it's going to leave a lot of guys frustrated.
Do you, Pearl?
Do you have any prescription?
However, I do.
Do you have any prescription at all?
As I've said, I don't tell men how to live.
No, you have none.
I don't.
How do you criticize anybody for anything?
You have nothing.
I don't.
Well, what I do is I do report on the facts and the trends and where I see things going.
I'm in the business of prediction.
Yeah, that's fine to be a news.
You keep, that's what I do, right?
So I do that.
But then how can you criticize anybody's office?
I do the call-in shows.
Well, I don't criticize if you say this is a way you can do it or you could do it that way.
You mean all of that?
But when you're saying if you don't live how I live, you're a degenerate.
Never have you.
And that's what you insinuate.
You can keep saying you can't.
I will specifically say like homosexuality is degenerate.
Yes, absolutely.
If a guy chooses to live life on his own terms and not your terms, you insinuate that there's something wrong with them.
Yeah, if a man decides to live a life of promiscuity and drugs, I think he's degenerate.
Yes, that's correct.
Right, but I mean, this is all kind of like, I mean, come on, were you a virgin on your wedding day?
Like, come on.
Never said I was.
I was also deeply steeped myself in the degeneracy of promiscuity.
I know, but so the way it comes across to a lot of people is I had my fun, but you can't.
And that's how that's how it that's how it's going to come off to people.
I see.
And I like I am somehow there for you.
And I am somehow, and I am somehow morally superior because you've ever done anything wrong.
So I also smoke and tell my kids not to smoke.
What a scumbag.
I just can't believe it.
Why would I do that?
Well, that's totally fine with your mother.
I also tell my kids not to smoke.
I also tell your kids not to smoke.
I'm totally fine with you.
I would tell your kids not to smoke.
But these are adult men.
Like, they don't need to be nagged, right?
You're like turning into a woman where you're nagging them.
Nobody's the only one who's nagging them is you because you're trying to knock down every single societal prescriptor possible to help them.
That's not what I said.
I said if men want to try, if men want to try your way, I have no problem with that.
You can try it.
I don't think it's pragmatic in the modern world based on what I've seen.
But who am I to tell a guy how to date?
What is pragmatic in the modern world?
Can you tell me that?
I think it's tough.
That's not a fucking answer.
It's not pragmatic.
Well, what's pragmatic?
I don't know.
Well, I think that I think most men can come up with their own solutions better than me, a YouTuber.
Then how can you make a claim that anything I say is not pragmatic when I say, well, then what is pragmatic?
And you say, I don't know.
I wouldn't predict that it would work.
I could give my opinion, right?
Okay, so I am, but what I'm not going to do is I'm not going to label adult men as degenerate if they don't live according to my personality.
So what is the most pragmatic thing men can do?
I think the most pragmatic thing that men can do is look at the facts and make a decision based on the information he has about his own life.
I think if, but I don't think I don't mean exactly what I have been saying the entire time.
No, but you say that you have the answers, and I don't think you do because I think what answers did I say I had?
I think that the prescription you gave of a step-by-step of how to get to marriage would not work in the modern world.
What prescriptions did I give for that?
You gave a prescription on waiting for a woman that does not wait.
No.
No, I didn't give that as a prescription.
I only gave it as a contrast of outcome for men who go and hook up with those women and don't get married having worse outcomes.
That is not a prescription that you should do the thing, Pearl, for the 30th time.
Okay.
Well, it's just both things bad, one thing worse.
Right.
But the way you're talking, it's like you're the ultimate morality police of what's good and bad.
Great.
Give me would be great.
I gave you an answer.
Did you say yes or no?
Is there anything that you do sexually with people that you find degenerate?
Men are men are.
Are they fucking degenerate?
Men are responding to the rules that women made.
So if a man fucks a dog, can we call him degenerate?
That's just gross.
Okay.
Can we call it, can we at least say that's degenerate?
I mean, I would just say it's disgusting.
Like, that's nice.
But not degenerate.
You're still not willing to call that degenerate?
I mean, if you want to be the most powerful person.
If a man grabs the other man and fucks up.
If you want to essentially act as a preacher, it's totally fine.
I just think people are tired of that.
What's the preaching?
There's no preaching.
I just asked you a question.
I've never preached on this channel ever.
I'm still not preaching.
I'm just offering real-world solutions under the same very eye-ins.
I'm totally.
So my question, my question.
Men are going to totally want to do that.
You at least say that a man who fucks a dog is a degenerate.
That's disgusting.
I'll call that a degenerate.
Fine.
Okay, fucking finally.
But a man who fucks another man up as hairy asshole is not.
I mean, I just don't care if he does that.
Is that a degenerate or not?
I mean, that's gross, but you don't know.
You don't know if that's degenerate.
Okay, I'm just not here.
I'm not here to tell men what to do in their sex lives.
I think people are tired of getting policed.
And like men from the time they're really young, men.
Dogs are tired of getting men.
Men, that's not what I'm saying.
Like men from a young age are shamed for their sexuality.
They're shame from a super young age.
They're told they're they're not like they're wrong for watching corn.
They're told they're wrong for wanting to have sex with women.
They're told they're wrong for approaching.
I don't think we need another person telling them they're wrong.
Yeah, this is great.
They're wrong for all the things you think are.
They're wrong.
Stop interrupting me.
Stop.
Yeah, yeah.
All the things you think have bad outcomes for men, we should still promote.
Andrew, like, I'm trying to be, I'm trying to be nice, but like, you're on my show.
Can you stop interrupting me, please?
Yeah, you interrupt as much as I do with my mother.
Okay, I don't think that's true, but it's okay.
And by the way, who's on whose show right now, really?
You are a very big YouTuber.
Okay, you're very big.
You're very famous.
Okay.
So, but I just think men from a young age have been shamed for their sexuality.
I don't think they really need someone else doing it.
And it just comes off as like a holier than now when you're constantly calling them degenerates for responding to the environment that women made.
I don't think it's pragmatic for most men to wait until they're 30 to have sex.
I don't think that, and most women don't select most men until they're in their late 20s, early 30s.
Go ahead.
So let me get this right, just to make sure that I have this correct.
I know me, Pearl Davis, don't want to govern the behavior of men.
How dare you call men who engage in sexual promiscuity degenerates, even though that would be, you know, you governing the behavior of me, man, right?
Pure hypocrisy on display, yes.
Well, I can't control it.
I can't control anything they do.
Yeah, but somehow you can give a prescription that I shouldn't be doing that, but I can't give a prescription for what other people are doing.
Well, you can.
You totally can.
You totally can, but it's just.
But you're just saying people are tired of it.
They're tired of men saying this is really bad for men to do for their own health.
I would say that men are pretty tired of being nagged for their sexuality in general.
Oh, well, I think that men, though, by and large, are going to agree with me on this.
That degenerate behavior and honorifics in men is something which men generally tend to steer clear of, especially in honor cultures, which is the culture that we come from.
Yeah.
I don't think that that has anything to do with religion at all.
I just, I don't think what you're selling is a good sell.
So I don't know.
Well, I mean, selling something at least, right?
You're not selling anything.
Just descriptive.
Totally fine.
Like a news podcast, like the Red Pill News podcast.
I do.
I do the news, you know.
It's fine.
But yeah, I don't think men are going to really watch this and think this is a great thing.
I'm getting a ton out of this because I just, there's no selling point.
You get a ex-hoe.
That's like pretty much what you're saying.
Or maybe a girl that's fucked two other dudes.
Literally not saying any of that.
In fact, the opposite.
In fact, I'm trying to initiate inside any sort of reform so that we can get away from that.
But the second I do, you call it, you say, how dare you preach about degeneracy?
Okay, isn't it?
And it's like, well, wait, you can't have high body counts if they're not fucking them, Pearl.
And they can't have high body counts if they're not fucking.
One thing called social shame, which leads to degeneracy, is that.
I don't think anything you're saying is very realistic.
I think it kind of sounds like...
You just switch between these two arguments.
Is it that I call it degenerates or that you think it's not realistic?
Well, I think there, yeah, I think there's two parts to it.
The one is that you're shaming men for their behavior and their sexuality.
And two is that I think that None of the changes that you're talking about really are realistic anytime soon.
And so men have to make decisions on marriage today.
And unfortunately, the value prop you're saying just isn't great because at the end of the day, men's kids don't belong to them.
Women have more power in the media, in the state, and in society in general.
And so I don't really see this men rushing to sign up to get married.
Great.
So tell me again, what's the most pragmatic thing men can do right now then?
It depends on the guy.
I can't speak about men as a clinician.
I can't speak.
Okay.
The most pragmatic thing that men can do, I don't know.
Depends on the guy.
Andrew, walk me through dating.
Well, I don't know.
It depends on the guy.
Because you were giving a prescription.
But it's a- Not only that.
I do have another guest coming, so I do have to go.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But I got one last second, just real quick.
Okay.
Okay.
To summarize this.
I'm going to send it.
I'm listening.
I'm just sending it.
Yeah.
My interest is in men's health and men's welfare and men's well-being ultimately.
I've given nothing but great prescriptions towards that.
You've given nothing towards that.
Instead, you just offer epistemic nihilism over and over and over again.
And he can't actually refute any of the points without telling me what I should be doing.
It's like a performative contradiction on his face.
Okay.
Now, listen, here's the thing that's funny about this.
I won't go on a monologue for a closer here.
I did enjoy the conversation ultimately.
And I know, as heated as this got, I want my entire chat to know, Andrews, too.
I don't have any problems with Hannah.
Never will.
I don't have any problems with Pearl Davis.
All right.
I've always respected the work that she does.
But sometimes this kind of like in-house slug fest is necessary and good for all sides.
And I still consider her to be a friend.
I know that this was a very heated debate, ultimately, but I don't have any bad blood towards you.
I just want to let you know that.
I have a lot of bad blood towards you.
I'm never talking to you again.
That's fair.
I'm just kidding.
That's fair.
Anyway, hold on.
I think that this sort of thing is good, ultimately.
Yeah.
Have you debated, like, who have you debated in the red pill space?
I don't know.
A lot of them.
I was just curious.
Okay, well, thanks for coming on.
We have Amaris' husbands on next.
Do you know who that is?
Oh, yeah.
Oh, that's going to be wild.
I'll do a raid over to your channel, too.
Okay.
Because that's going to be a fucking wild one.
But look, really, there's no bad blood.
I know that my job is to debate my worldview the best I possibly can.
Sometimes that has created conflict with people like you who are friends of mine in the past.
I definitely don't want that.
And I am very much a supporter of the types of work that you do with the descriptors that you put out.
I think that they're golden, many of them.
I've used many of those stats myself.
So there's no bad blood here.
Never think for a second there is.
Okay.
All right.
Thanks for coming.
You know what?
The funny thing is, I always am hesitant to use your first name because I forget yours is public.
Yeah, no.
Because so many people in this space are like not public.
So I always have to like think about it first.
But I'm like, wait, no, I don't have to call you the crucible.
Thanks for coming, Andrew.
All right.
Thank you, Pearl.
Have a good day.
Okay.
Bye.
All right, guys.
So next we got Amarith.
And then I'm going to read super chats.
Okay, we got over a thousand people.
Do you want to actually, Doug MPA?
Can you send him the link?
Yeah, because I want to see if he has any thoughts on the conversation.
Actually, it would have been interesting.
I should have brought both of them up.
I feel like Doug MPA would have loved this.
Okay, so let's do supers.
All right.
Andrew is completely out of line.
Most things he says are usually on point, but his homophobia is on full display at this time.
Look at I'm kind of homophobic, too.
I just like, I just don't care.
Andrew's stepdad are men that women wouldn't date if they have kids.
Andrew, Andrew's a stepdad.
Pearl, your value, pragmatism, and happiness above any other outcome.
Zero moral ground, the same as your liberal and feminist followers.
Pearl sounding like a modern 304.
I guess so.
Pearl versus Pale Man from Pan's Labyrinth.
Oh my gosh, Peter.
I made love to my first wife.
She passed away.
I married again and made love to her.
What does that make me?
A degenerate, obviously.
Yes, and this is my point.
They peddle religion.
So, like, you just, every time someone's trying to sell you something, they're always going to like push things like towards their worldview.
And that's the problem.
Yes, we are peddling religion.
If you don't believe in any higher purpose, then there's no reason to get married or have a family or do anything except party.
Yeah.
And I think that's the other point.
Most people aren't that religious.
Marriage is a sacrament of the church and not a piece of paper.
Also, I forgot he met you, so I'm sorry you got dragged into this.
I forgot he met you in person.
You were this like fantasy guy.
I was like, no, don't roast my producer.
Don't do that.
He's innocent in this.
History, they got a real possibility of family.
Democracy's design has been failings.
We've reached it.
You can't stop what people believe in, good or bad.
Collapse is likely the only option left.
You guys are talking past each other.
Andrew cares about higher meaning and purpose in his worldview, one of the Christian ethics.
Pearl is strictly sticking to the material in here and now.
The parasocial weirdo Gen X fans, only subscribers are mad.
They're daddies.
They live vicariously through getting wrecked.
Get a surrogate.
Men's reward is further out of reach than in history.
This is the point.
The nonsense, if the product is good, people will line up is historically and evidently not true at all.
It's called getting a surrogate, destroys his argument.
Kids raised by a single father do just as well as a two-parent household.
Don't need real marriage.
Ask if things have gotten worse.
I should have asked that.
Good question.
He can't acknowledge it's gotten worse.
What men get in family and children in a lifetime commitment, being a father and raising children with a mother is its own reward.
It fails a base.
Women either ignore nests or denied exists.
Women could fix all of this if they wanted to.
They created the system.
They have votes.
Men didn't break the social contract.
Women did.
And since they're so smart, why don't they fix this?
Urban families are non-existent.
People don't communicate anymore just looking for that money.
Yes, men get what they always got for marriage and kids, but the risks and costs for the gambler way up.
A thousand times in the past years, Andrew, you're arguing against the rational analysis of billions of men.
Men get a family which gets destroyed.
It's easy to make silly OF girls look bad, but when Andrew is over his head dealing with Pearl, men garnered authority and respect from their wives.
That was their benefit.
Egalitarians will never allow married authority.
The allure in history of the possibility of getting a family was much higher and reasonable.
He can't acknowledge it's getting worse from history.
Oh my gosh, there's so many.
Shuts up, everyone.
I really enjoyed seeing Andrew and Lauder with Crowder.
For me personally, seeing Andrew getting on bigger outlets, I'm predicting eventually a collision course with Andrew and Matt Walsh.
Prescription isn't the problem getting there.
Is OMG from the Cade?
The dude reminds me of an apocalypse giving the gospel.
I'm going to have to change my day off evening plans now.
Women's influential control politics, aka government and companies for advertisement.
They have the power over propaganda and try convincing power to give up power.
Great prescription, but you can't make it.
Look at the support we are.
Oh, wait, I read this one.
Okay, let me refresh.
and then Doug MPA can give his points.
Okay.
Doug MPA, how are you doing?
Hey, Pearl, how are you doing?
I'm good.
What's going on?
So I like Andrew Wilson.
I'll as V Team Pearl because I've been supporting you since before you got famous.
My biggest thing with Andrew is he keeps doing the whole men owe society.
And one of the best quotes I've ever heard is: women change the social rules to the 20th century and the 20th century.
And the 21st century is going to be men responding to it.
And men like Andrew does not, they do not, men like Andrew don't like how men are responding to how women rewrote society.
And he makes a false dichotomy between you're either virtuous and you're a man in a marriage or you're banging a bunch of whores.
And that's not true.
The red pill never says just bang a bunch of whores.
Guys, you don't have to be a pack bull for some woman.
You just don't.
And men don't get anything out of the average man doesn't get anything out of marriage.
I'm sorry.
And also with religious prescriptions, we all know that religious women can be as big of whores, if not bigger whores, than secular women.
There is a social infrastructure in place to reward women being not having virtue and not being virtuous.
So Andrew says, look for virtuous women.
Okay.
What incentive do women have?
Okay.
For a woman to be virtuous, she has to act in a virtuous way.
Right?
Like Christians.
You have to choose to be a Christian.
You labor yourself as one and you choose to live that lifestyle.
If a woman is to be virtuous, she has to exist in a virtuous way.
In modern society, women aren't virtuous and they are celebrated for not being virtuous.
So there's no point in men getting married if they don't get anything.
Women will divorce you.
They'll take your kids.
And here's the thing.
The only thing worse than being lonely and men being loneliness and being unhappy is getting your family ripped away from you, paying alimony and child support while your wife bangs her personal trainer on your dime.
And the red pill, the worst thing that could happen is usually that.
So I'd rather be lonely by myself than be a guy that bought a bad deal, and now his wife gets the benefit, his ex-wife gets the benefit for the rest of his life while he's in poverty.
And so I like the fact that Andrew is so hopeful and so optimistic, but you got to live now, guys.
Your emotional, mental, spiritual, and monetary health is at stake.
And no one is going to care about you unless you care about yourself.
And here's the thing.
What a lot of these trad cons don't realize is that us red pill people, we can say don't get married all you want, don't have kids all you want, but men are going to keep doing, men are going to keep making decisions because that's what men do.
We're cost-benefit calculators, we make decisions.
The red pill is just about awareness.
We want men to make the best decision possible because no matter the decision, whatever the outcome is, it's your fault.
You have to take responsibility for it.
And there's been 40, 50 years of unadulterated, unfiltered, unchallenged misandry in this country.
And also, one last thing.
Anything that's taken for granted, take it away.
Take it away from the person and see what happens.
That's what men are doing right now.
Men have been taken for granted for the past 50 years.
Men have been women's little, you know, little golden shiny toy that they've been tossing around and kicking around and throwing in the mud and stuff.
They've been taking their shiny little toy for granted.
Men are saying, if you think you're so strong and independent, go right ahead and see what happens.
And so I'm all for men unplugging, minding your own business.
Don't get married, don't have kids.
Men, most of the people alone throughout history have been men.
Now we can see what happens when it's women.
Women think they want the smoke of being a man, but they don't know what that entails.
Being a man is a long, hard road.
It's not fun, but it's also the greatest responsibility and the greatest gift that you could possibly have is the journey of a man.
Women think they want the smoke, so let them find out.
Live life on your own terms.
As long as you're not a terrible person, you're not harming others.
So I just don't like what, especially with religious people.
I'm not religious, but these religious prescriptors, Pearl tries to make her content relatable to all men, not just Christians, Muslims, or whatever, because all men can get God.
All of them can.
So Pearl is trying to appeal to as many men as possible.
And so anyway, so I just, I like Andrew.
He's my favorite debater right now.
I like watching him cook these hoes.
But when it comes to modern dating and what men have to go through, it's rough out here, man.
It's rough out here.
I'm going to read from the website.
If you guys have anything on the website, you do get unlimited super chats on theaudacitynetwork.com.
The link is in the description.
We are on both app stores.
It was a good heated debate.
It got very heated, but I enjoyed it.
I think you should continue this with him, but maybe have Rachel on at the same time.
Okay.
Yeah, probably.
We can do it again.
Okay, I didn't see Andrew was talking about.
What do you think about the argument, Doug, that he was saying how it's best for men to get married?
And he just does what's best for men.
So the biggest, I don't have any children, right?
And my parents say, oh, why don't you have any children?
I say, because I'd have to have a children.
I'd have to have a child with one of these modern women.
Modern women have no duty to anything.
What is more important to women and what can get women to care more about anything except their own selfish desires?
What?
What?
Nothing.
How can you, I think that men in their DNA still have strive for what's best for society, God, country, family.
But women don't have that same responsibility and that same duty.
You always say on your channel, Pearl, people have this misnomer and make the mistake that women are the more nurturing gender in 2025, but they're not.
They're simply not.
Men are more nurturing than women.
Tell me I'm lying.
And I think that one of the main Motivations and tactics of modern women is they want to take a successful, ambitious, God-fearing man, and when they get married, have that man set aside his ambition, his desires for her selfishness desires.
A woman could have a husband, have a family, and still be thinking about herself.
The man is planning for the wife and the children, and the woman is planning for herself.
Nothing in 2025 is more important to women than their own selfish desires.
And that's what guys look like Andrew don't put into the equation.
You give them prescriptions for men, but they still have to deal with these women.
Yeah.
I just would never, like, if someone took his prescription and ended up committing suicide, would he feel responsible?
Well, I mean, and that's, and I'm not trying to like be a doom and gloomer, but it's like I would feel responsible if someone took my advice and they went, like, that's why, you know, you have to make the decision because the responsibility for it's on you.
It's not on me.
Like, I don't have to deal with it.
It's easy for an influencer to say what you should do with your life.
And like, why did he keep saying that I didn't, that he didn't say to wait for a non-virgin woman?
Like, did I miss something?
He did say that, did he not?
Well, I mean, there needs to be another term besides a born-again person.
Oh, he just didn't like the term.
I'm like, what else are you going to call it?
Like, it's like a woman that's not a virgin getting virgin benefits.
Like, what else are you going to do?
And to people that are from Andrew's channel on here, you want to be the guy that the woman sleeps with on the first date.
You do.
Because most, I said 90% of women have slept with a guy on the first date.
You want to be that guy.
You don't want to be the guy that she makes weight.
Because then, I mean, come on now.
All right.
So that channels in.
Then you become this guy.
All right.
Have you seen the Amarith beef yet?
Uh-uh.
Okay.
I want to show you.
So this guy's coming on.
So Amarith is like a big OnlyFans model.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I know who Amaranth is.
Okay.
And she's going viral right now because she was arguing with her husband for 12 hours on stream.
Oh my God.
I couldn't believe it.
And allegedly he's coming on today, but this guy is summarizing the beef.
Do you have any other final thoughts on the debate?
Because the guy is going to come out soon.
Go ahead.
I respect Andrew Wilson.
I think he's great.
If I were to ever, I'm an agnostic.
If I were to ever, you know, look into Christianity, I would literally hit him up.
I like the way that he navigates his religious beliefs and all that stuff.
But I mean, it's really good to say certain things, but he's not out here, man.
He's not out here.
He doesn't know.
He'd get eaten alive.
What guys like him basically say is take the risk because it could work out for you.
But the stakes are so high now, like the L that she can take from marriage is worse than it's ever been.
And it's only getting worse each year.
And they're saying in the chat, they're like, she's scared to give prescriptions.
Shouldn't you be scared that a guy could potentially commit suicide?
Like, this is a real thing.
Like, it's not like.
You've always said that women.
This is not like some of these women do evil things to these guys.
And it's really easy to say, like, you know, she can just pray, but, you know, any women that try to tell men what to do are feminists automatically.
Yeah.
That's what liberal and feminist women do.
And I like the fact that you avoid doing that.
Now, I think we're in a climate where we're so used to women, especially on the conservative side, like Tommy Lawrence saying, you need to be real men.
That when a woman doesn't want to do it, they're like, what's going on?
She's weak and she's not.
No.
Like, the Tommy Lawrence should be keeping their mouth shut, not pearl talking more.
Understand I'm saying, yeah.
So, Amaranth basically is accusing her husband of abuse, and this guy's gonna summarize it.
You wanna react with me?
Sure.
Okay, Glenn Lawrence says, let me call in.
Yeah, make it quick, but you can call in.
I'm gonna play this video to give people a summary of the stream.
Amaranth has been fighting with her husband live on air for over 24 hours straight.
What started as a dispute between how to- I'm gonna say one last thing.
Okay, so some of the best advice I ever got in my life, guys.
If you're thinking about if you don't like your job or you're in a tumultuous relationship, the best question you can ask yourself is, is this working?
And you have to answer yes or no.
If you're sitting at your job and you're hating life, you know, if you're with some woman who's freaking getting up your ass and stuff, ask yourself, is this working?
The answer needs to be yes or no.
If the answer is no, all the rest of it is easy.
You have to make a change.
Men have been looking at the last 40, 50 years and they're asking themselves this question: Is this working?
And the answer is no.
Guys, wait, I want to play the before Nick.
How's it going?
Hey, how's it going?
Good.
How are you?
I'm pretty good.
We were having a little tech issue, I guess.
I was about to play your live stream fight first.
Is that okay?
Can I do that first?
Just so the audience knows what we're like talking about.
Yeah, yeah.
Okay, so I'm going to play this real quick.
So this is obviously like a leftist like YouTuber, but let me play this.
Amaranth has been fighting with her husband live on air for over 24 hours.
my gosh no it's the sometimes my computer does this Hold on, guys.
Husband live on air for over 24 hours straight.
What started as a dispute between how to take care of their seven dogs has escalated into a multi-day long argument with at one point her husband bringing up how she kisses black men while they're dating.
Of course, naturally, people think this is fake given that there was the whole drama with her husband a couple years back.
The same one that she originally accused of forcing her to do things like OF, etc.
Regardless, the fight is insane to watch, and you don't have to be a fly on the wall because the whole thing is live streamed for us.
Well, it hurts when Yi tweets out this clip with the caption.
Amaranth and her husband, Nick, have been fighting for hours on kick.
Still happening now, if you're interested.
No, I'm an insane one, Nick.
You were in an insane mindset.
No, you're just, something is mentally unhinged for you right now because normally...
No, it's literally you!
You are on in.
This is hilarious.
Normally, when you know that we're being swatted, you're at least concerned for the dogs.
And you're almost.
I was not concerned in this case because one, I know that the dogs aren't in here, so there's nothing for me to be concerned.
And I know that they are free.
Yeah, they're like on the patio and then Trump trumps.
Either on the patio can see them.
Trumps can jump over.
I don't have to be concerned if I didn't hear a shot go off.
What the fuck?
I'm sorry.
First of all, no, this is you being retarded because here's the thing, right?
You're being super flippant and you're not even making any sense.
You just said you're not concerned because no shots are fired.
Bro. Hoodie replies, I'm going to be real.
They both sound like shitty human beings after all this shit.
Nathan replies to the clip by saying, bro, she is like fucking dumb.
Bend over says, y'all so dumb if you believe this real.
All that these streamers do is content.
It's all scripted.
Everything is staged.
Iku replies, is this the same husband she had this nervous breakdown over one year ago and said that he practically forced her to prostitute herself online, etc.
Are they back together?
What kind of sick shit is this?
And Anica Enigma says, yes, it is.
They never separated.
This whole thing is a circus show.
Jake coaches the clip by saying, Kids used to watch Nickelodeon.
Fearbuck tweets out, Amaranth's husband pressed her about giving a HJ to Aaron Pogson, a producer from Fresh and Fit in a parking lot, and attaches this clip.
Can we talk about you kissing black men momentary?
That is not even true.
I was.
Oh my god.
Oh, we don't want to talk about that one.
We can talk about that, sure.
Okay, let's talk about it.
You had me go on tender dates that I didn't want to go on.
And then you started calling me while we were at the karaoke bar a lot.
That is no.
Oh, you didn't?
You were wanting to open stars.
No, did you?
Did you ask that, okay, maybe I will sleep with Aaron?
Did we did we?
No, that is not.
No.
Did you ever ask that?
No, I did not.
Oh, okay.
We're going to lie to your chat now.
Okay.
We're literally not lying.
And you didn't give him a hand job in the parking lot.
I did not.
Oh.
Correct.
I didn't drive up on you guys together, you giving him a hand job in the parking lot, dude, in Chinatown.
Date, these men can't even find that would make us money of such s acts that you are claiming right now.
Yet you're saying I would do it off-stream for no money?
Yes.
You're saying you're retarded.
Oh my god, because stars never have all fucking.
Action Man says, I mean, a little HJ, no big deal.
But let's be honest, though, nobody is usually just giving an HJ.
It's possible, but unlikely.
Essence replies, poor guy.
He looks like a sweet husband, but that's one of the cons when dating an OF bitch.
They're fucking retarded.
Rello replies, well, clearly she wants a D from someone who's actually fresh and fit.
Because what the fuck is this?
Attaching this picture of her husband's shoes.
Mighty Keith quotes this clip by saying, What am I hearing right now?
And Anastasia replies, Dude is married to a corn star and then gets mad she does corn star stuff?
Bro, grow up.
Design tweets out this clip with the caption, Amaranth is seemingly accusing her husband of wanting to have her killed after a 12-plus hour argument.
It all started when the husband complained about a dog chores and quickly spiraled into a massive on-stream airing out of all their dirty laundry that seemingly has no end.
When this fight started till now as today, you said you were on this face.
I'm sorry.
You know, it's so messy.
Every guy has made that face in his life.
And honestly, you may say, why is she live streaming all this?
You want to get all this stuff on camera, man.
Because this, anything you can't, anything she says or anything they say can be used.
Get as much of this stuff on camera as possible.
I'm going to play like a couple more minutes and then I'll cut it off.
Unhappy long before I ever said, you know what, I could see it if you did want me killed.
I could see that.
He's so dumb.
You weren't happy before.
So you know what?
No, I say I'm unhappy.
Have you plotted a kill?
No, it's me thinking about all the shitty things you say to me.
Like the last.
Did you say he wanted you killed?
Now it's thinking of all the shitty things you say to me.
Last time we argued, you said, I wish I hadn't saved you.
So you wouldn't attack.
But maybe I was actually plotting.
Yeah, so you're threatening to divorce the women that you claim to love so much that you're.
If I was plotting, I wouldn't divorce you because then I wouldn't get anything.
You want to get no sense of it.
You prefer a financial split, though.
You want spice.
And you're like, that's what you're getting this.
Because it's outlined.
Look, right now, if we get a divorce and you die, your parents get your half.
If we're together and you die, I get it.
So then I would never say that if I was trying to have you killed!
They continue to their trick by saying, There's the moment that started the whole 12-plus-hour altercation between Amaranth and her husband.
Attaching this clip.
What?
What the fuck was that?
Oh, here we go again.
Oh, is our life just dog chores now or what?
No, we haven't done any all day.
I know, but we gotta do like fucking seven in a row at night.
I'm only kind of a fucking fence right now.
Otherwise, it would be out of the way.
Things you've got to put up with for a nine, like a 9.5.
In their yard, more.
Why do you just complain?
You don't have to help me if you don't want to.
You can go smoke with them on your lounge and I'll deal with it.
I complain in order to make things better.
Well, we're already in the past in making things better than what they have to do this.
Terrence replies, fake.
She pulled this shit a year or two ago.
And Design says, if anything, this person is.
Okay, they're saying she's not a nine.
Then give your rating, guys.
Come on, she's like the top.
She's at least an eight.
The drama from two years ago was real.
Who's posting the live stream fail subreddits?
Amarantha calls the police on her husband live.
Okay, fine.
Fine.
We'll say eight.
Fine, fine.
I'm media relevancy.
She even had wreck is beyond me.
Oh my gosh, it does this sometimes.
It's the tough life living in Texas, man.
I am phlegmatic replies.
From Dobby Free to calling the police live.
Some things never change, huh?
And they do says, They are very bad con artists.
And Miss Rising replies, but very good actors.
Because I don't think any of this shit is real.
Not from what I've read.
Key Appointment says, It's crazy how you can make this insane amount of money and still be so emotionally unstable, illogical, immature.
Like two adults who haven't developed the logical communication skills.
Imagine being so materialistically rich and still being bogged down by these silly problems.
And Fogatika says, At this point, I'm heavily suspecting it's all for drama and clicks.
And Fresh Wealth says, seems like it worked.
We all clicked, didn't we?
Apollo Tiger Wolf replies, gonna need some context.
And Cookie Waffle95 replies, Her husband is saying she killed her brand by saying anti-trans/slash Jewish stuff.
So they're having a painful convo about it on stream.
Dark, that's the same stuff you say to me.
I'm telling you.
Stop.
And Theo Golf says, Ah, yes.
Seems like a very valid reason to call police and totally not a waste of their time.
Kick clips tweets out.
Full.
Amaranth calls the cops on her husband after he charged at her during a 20-hour stream argument and attaches this club.
That's fine.
I'm not okay with.
I'm not unokay with being observed.
Okay, great.
I'm unokay with you pointing the camera.
Well, then leave.
I'm not going to follow you.
So you're literally just going to be super defiant.
Is that right?
Talk about problems, hey?
What the fuck is wrong with you, bro?
Leave.
You can lose.
You're trying to leave.
I think he's trying to end the stream.
I wasn't in camera view.
You moved the camera view to me.
What is wrong with you?
You've got to go.
Maybe I'm partial to Redheads.
I'd say eight.
Whatever.
Whatever.
We'll do like another minute and then we'll...
Yeah, okay.
That's fine.
That's fine.
Bro, the police came.
I didn't see this part.
Oh, they actually came.
Yeah.
You wanted me to end the video?
Oh, man.
Oh, man.
They continue the thread by saying, moments before attaching this club.
Was it because he tried to went in front of her?
Women always overexaggerate the abuse.
It's like, really?
That was the.
So, Nick, over here, we have what's called the female-friendly version of the story.
And what that is, is it's the story where the woman is the hero and the victim in the story at the same time.
And I think that you, from what I saw, you literally lived that out on a stream for 12 hours.
Yeah, it's pretty rough.
Ended up being uh, probably closer to 24 when all is said and done.
You guys can hear me right, just making sure yeah, I can hear you.
Okay cool cool, cool.
I think we can end the.
I mean, you get the idea guys, from the video.
Um so hi, welcome to the show.
First hello, I know it's been a rough you.
When did this happen?
Was this like?
Two is super fresh?
Um, I think it was like saturday late night, and then sunday was like the the, the cop thing yeah, so everyone's saying this is staged for?
Absolutely not.
I know this is hard to believe, but we have never staged any drama like all the dysfunction is perfectly real.
Really, I wish uh honestly yeah like, so I i'm just gonna say this because like, i've wanted to say it for a bit I guess um, it's like the 2022 drama right, where she kind of had this thing and I was calling her right like uh, I mean look, the words I was saying was absolutely true, but I, I got kind of like uh, surprised at like um, kind of, how far she took it.
Like, I yell at her, she yells at me.
I always assume that um, if you can't dish it, then you know you shouldn't do it either right um, and and like, the biggest thing that used to get me was like she would play this game where we'd be arguing at room temperature voices right, and then uh, she would start raising her voice and then drowning me out, and then i'd raise my voice and she'd raise her voice and I raise my voice generally to match, and then, at a certain decibel, she would say, why are you yelling at me?
It got me every time um, and so like.
In that particular case, I was pretty sleep deprived um, it was like a tax snafu where uh, she kind of it was a relatively small amount um, but like a big enough amount that the IRS would care about.
So she had this uh, what was it?
Cash app right, and she was so big at that moment that, like she just merely having a cash app um, meant people were sending money right, I think that cash app was clearing sixty seven thousand dollars a year um, and you're not getting anything like.
It's just literally, her cash tag is available on one of her social media podcasts, and then sixty thousand dollars.
Now, my gripe of it was when I asked her, you know, do you want to put my cash app in the street, just post, do a community post or something.
I'm just kidding sorry, keep going.
So no okay uh, when I got around um, like to ask her like uh hey um, give me all the income sources that you know, you know of obviously, I know of some, and then you know i'll do the taxes.
And so she didn't tell me about that one um, because she was using it to buy, like some uh, horse supplies on the side, it's like a little slush fund for her, which I don't really care about.
But then like, the IRS sent me notices that were like hey, you've unreported income, and I was like, what are they talking about?
And it was just like this 67 000.
And then I remember saying like well, I guess we forgot about it.
I know it sounds bad, but like, and then they're like well, you couldn't have forgotten, because you're spending it like, because it's being spent down too right um so yeah, like that's kind of the thing.
Uh, i'll just bulletpoint it now just for brevity's sake.
Uh, i've actually never asked her to wear skimpier clothing ever.
Like that whole Dobe is free thing, the Harry Potter reference that she says, because now she can wear shirts without cleavage.
The funniest part of that is, I have never asked her to dress Skimpier.
In fact, the only thing I've ever asked her to do is not dress a skimpy.
Like, it was totally the opposite of what reality was for that particular claim, right?
In fact, five years ago, she had a drama where she flashed her vagina on Twitch.
And like, everyone thought it was a stunt, but actually, it was, I was downstairs and she was walking upstairs.
I look up and I said, Hey, you need to wear something else because I can see, you know, whatever.
And then she was like, No, no, I'm not, this is fine.
And she goes on script stream and then, you know, flashes, everyone instantly gets banned.
And so that one surprised me a lot, saying that I moderated her clothing choice.
Like, I know nothing about women's clothing.
Like, she wears what she wears, and that's what it is.
And sometimes I say it's too much for Twitch.
I'm like, pretty concerned about the moderation thing.
The other thing is that, like, I've never financially controlled her.
Like, literally, for the entire time we've been together, which is like 10 years, which is kind of nuts.
Every bank account we have, she's either primary account holder or joint primary.
I cannot, like, if she went right now, like at this minute to the bank and you know, moved $2 million, I could not, they're not even going to call me.
Like, I can't stop that.
And so, the financial control thing was wild to me, too, because like the thing I'm guilty of is absolutely yelling.
But financial control and making her dress a certain way, making her do things on OnlyFans that she didn't want to do, that has never happened.
I've never done that.
Like, literally, at that point in time, when she made that complaint, I was removed from the entire OnlyFans side of the operation.
It was literally staffers who would draw up ideas, present her the ideas, she would circle the ones that she was comfortable with, and then they would film the ideas.
I wasn't part of the entire chain of making content whatsoever.
And so, that was also another thing.
And, like, my biggest gripe with her at the time was like, if you have such a legitimate grievance, then why did you make up the three big ones that are headlining?
But, like, I'm a pretty realistic person to a fault.
And so, when that happened, and I talked to her about it, you know, after she came down a little bit, she'd already done two streams basically canceling me, right?
She was like, Well, I can do a third stream and correct the record.
And I was like, No, no, no, we're not going to do that.
She was willing to at that moment, but I was like, We're not going to do that because right now you've killed my reputation.
And if you go and you backtrack, it's not coming back, right?
It'll just kill your reputation as well.
Little did I know, you know, people just started saying it was fake anyways.
So, you know, that's all moot.
Uh, but sorry, I'm sure you have like questions and stuff.
I didn't want to be recognized.
I'm kind of, well, I'm kind of curious.
Um, I don't follow the OnlyFans women too closely, the streaming stuff.
So, some of this I might.
How did you guys meet?
Like, were you there before she did the OnlyFans?
So, you guys met in like college or something?
So, ironically, it was on Tinder.
I was kind of a fuckboy back then.
And so, I was on Tinder a bunch.
And then, one day I matched this girl.
And, like, I remember when I matched her, I was like, okay, well, great.
Like, another fake profile.
Because, like, this is like 2014 or 15, right?
So, it's early.
And Tinder was still legit.
You could actually meet people on Tinder back then.
And so, like, all of her pictures were super professional model pictures or super professional cosmetic pictures with like photo editing.
And so, I was like, this is not a real person because it's 10 photos like from the studio, right?
They're advertising something.
But, you know, as a guy, you know, you always, you know, play the odds.
And so I messaged her.
And then, like, the thing that kind of piqued my attention was that she would, how we met.
And I guess the genesis of our streaming career was that she had a business at the time that did party planning.
And I was basically the one who kind of accidentally figured out that in those days, 2014 and 2015, Facebook advertising was such a good deal.
No one believed in Facebook advertising.
So, to compete, you know, Zuckerberg lowered the price to such a low CPM that I remember for a brief period of time, you could literally advertise your YouTube channel, get more from ad revenues than you're spending on Facebook, right?
And so, there was like this perpetual motion machine briefly, ever so briefly.
And so, we used that to make her party planning business, you know, go from like a startup to six figures.
And then I stopped and I said, wait a minute, like, I feel like we're taking too many steps to do this thing because our only edge is we're good at social media.
So, why are we running a party planning company?
Like, you know, we're able to market it very well, but we should probably do influencer stuff.
And at the moment in time, I had more followers than her on Instagram, right?
I don't even have that Instagram anymore.
I deactivated it.
And I remember thinking, like, this is weird.
Like, I'm a guy, right?
And she's a hot girl who does cosplay in 2014.
Like, how do I have more followers than her?
And I, you know, checked out her page and I was like, oh, she's doing all this wrong.
Like, yada, yada.
Like, and that, so then I said, we kind of, you know, were newly married at the time.
And so we hatched this plan where she thought I was going to be an influencer.
And I said, no, no, no, I don't want to do that.
I don't want to be in front of a camera.
I don't want to do all that.
How long were you guys together before you got married?
How many years?
One and a half.
Okay.
Okay.
Go ahead.
Continue.
Yeah.
Feel free to interrupt me anytime for questions because I can scramble a little bit.
Yeah.
So, you know, and then she started doing it.
And then, you know, like, there were days, like back then, like, I had the Instagram algorithm kind of figured out to a T. Like there was all these little growth hack tricks that you could do.
And so I remember there were days when she would grow 10,000 followers on Instagram in like 2015.
And then she started streaming.
And then I remember partly it was my idea.
I was like, you should probably do YouTuber streaming, you know, like, you know, an additional kind of tangent or a place that your viewers can come find you for more engagement.
And then I'd buy her, you know, the laptop.
And at that point in time, I was a sole breadwinner, right?
I had a nice cushy white collar engineering job.
And, you know, I'd bought a house.
And so she just lived at home, you know, rent-free, obviously.
And then just kind of like, she could fill her day with whatever she wanted to.
And I went to work, you know, roughly 9 to 6 p.m.
So that was how it was back then.
And then so I bought her a laptop and then bought her like the stuff she needed for streaming.
And then she started streaming.
I remember telling her, like, be understand this.
It's that like, if you turn it on, it's going to take a while.
You might be streaming to zero viewers for a bit.
Right.
But as it actually turned out, she started out the gate with 30 viewers.
So it's kind of a moot there too.
And then, you know, within a couple months, it was like 100-something.
So I'm kind of off the races.
Okay.
So close my door so we don't get noise pollution.
Yeah, totally fine.
Yeah, go ahead.
Bro, what do you always say that all these women have a man behind them?
Every single one of them.
I know everyone.
Every one of them.
And I know who Amaranth is, man.
You know, she's in like the top 0, 1% of earnest in all this.
And I knew that there is a man behind her.
I knew it.
I mean, I'm a casual.
I don't do Twitch.
I don't do kick anything like that.
But I always knew that as successful as she was, that there was a guy guy, her career.
Yeah.
Because what do you always say about that, bro?
Well, I just always say whenever there's a woman that's making a lot of money online, there's always a guy behind them.
Because we just don't make money on our own.
We just lose it or spend it or say something dumb.
That's why I was kind of joking with Doug MPA because the stuff you were telling her not to say is stuff he told me not to say.
So, wait, so when did it become like OnlyFans?
Like, was that, you know, because we always wonder, like, and I'm just being honest here, like, why would a guy put up with his girlfriend or wife getting naked on?
Was it just the money or what?
And also the perception is, you know, OnlyFans is like a line that's crossed.
Understand what I'm saying?
Like once you start doing OnlyFans, the perception changes.
Does it change the dynamic?
Did it change?
Was it a lot?
Was it like a wall that you had to climb over?
And you guys, you understand what I'm saying?
Were the repercussions to starting OnlyFans in you guys' wives?
We started on Patreon before OnlyFans.
And ironically, we were kind of late to the OnlyFans game.
It wasn't until, I think, at the onset of COVID that we made an OnlyFans, right?
And that's a big mistake.
In fact, I remember years later, like in the heyday of 2021, 2022, when she was like making $2 million a month on OnlyFans, I remember searching OnlyFans in the emails, looking for some email, right?
And then I scrolled to the bottom just curiously.
And I saw that in 2019, they had offered, if she made a profile, that they would slice the rates in half perpetually.
And I remember sitting there thinking, holy shit, like the amount of money left on the table because we didn't click that link in 2019 is like insane, right?
It's like, you know, almost $10 million on its own.
And so once we start doing OnlyFans is pretty tame stuff.
Pictures of bikinis and stuff like that.
Right.
For me, I'm generally pretty self-assured.
And so like I have some rules and boundaries, but like as long as those are followed, it's fine.
And I don't know if y'all are probably not familiar, but like the perception of her is that she's this porn star.
And I won't necessarily disagree with that, but like she has never had sex with another guy or anything like that.
In fact, like her page is pretty tame.
In recent years, there have been like very liberal uses of cartoon filters and AI.
So like it's actually really, like the closest she gets is like, it doesn't even show the action, but like implies there's action.
That makes sense.
So are her like boobs on the internet though?
That is, yeah.
And that was mainly just because she's comfortable with that.
You know, because like even when she was modeling, you know, like models kind of do really artsy risque shots that are like naked, oh, but there's like paint or something dripping down or whatever.
Is like her like vagina, is that on the internet too?
Ironically, unintentionally from the leaked streams, where I would tell her not to wear the thing.
Yeah.
I was just wondering like how, like, what it didn't bother you at all that like other guys were jacking off to, you know, your girl's boobs.
I mean, it's okay if it didn't.
I was just, you kind of wonder the psychology.
So you have to understand to the average person, this is like insane, you know?
Yeah.
And also, just a quick, so the future is going to be young boys in high school are going to have friends whose moms are on OnlyFans, right?
And college guys are going to be in college with women that have done OnlyFans.
So like, what?
Well, you can answer Pearl's Inquiry first, but I have one after that.
Let me go ahead and answer Pearl's Inquiry first, and then I'll follow up with what I want to say.
I apologize for interrupting.
Yeah, so no, no, you're good.
Basically, you know, I was a fuckboy on Tinder kind of before.
And so like, there are all kinds of girls on there, right?
Like, I don't think I've ever done a match with a porn star or anything like that.
But like, there are girls who are like in various stages of like, we didn't even know it at the time, but becoming an influencer, I guess is what you call it, right?
Like, like, no one knew what was going on at the time.
Just like, oh, I have a lot of followers.
And so, like, I was kind of used to a lot.
And then I'd kind of, you know, fooled around with like party girls and stuff.
And like, that, that was always kind of like crazy because like, I remember once getting invited to go to Vegas, right?
I have to pay my own flight and then we'd get a penthouse suite.
And it was like four girls who invited me to go on this trip.
And I remember like, it's in the wind.
And I was like, I was in the room.
And I was like, holy fuck, like this room must cost like $10,000 a night at least, right?
How are you guys paying for this?
And they're like, oh, yeah, this guy online paid for it.
And I was like, oh, that's crazy.
And then she told me that I am not allowed to appear in any of the photos.
But so I've seen a lot of that stuff.
And so by relative comparison, Amaranth Kate, people will never believe this.
Fresh and fit, you know, did not believe it when she was on them.
But like, she was a virgin when I met her, right?
And she's only, you know, how old was she?
She's now 31.
No, no, when you met her.
Oh, 20.
Wow, that's kind of crazy to say.
Okay.
Yeah.
It's 20 and 25, I believe.
Yeah.
Wow.
Yeah.
We were young and I never intended to get married.
But like, you know, she kind of in that moment.
She didn't blow one other dude.
Not one.
Supposedly, you know, not okay.
But you have to understand, okay, like the thing about her is like no one will, again, no one will kind of understand her or know this, but like she had just started.
Like, so, you know, like, it's not that she was unattractive.
It's just that she didn't really lean into like being more feminine until like right around the time right before I met her.
Right.
Go back and you look at like her 2000 or like her 19 year old, 18 year old photos.
Like, you know, she's a, she's a cute girl, but like, it's almost like it's like a cute girl, like diamond in the rough type thing, right?
Yeah, was she one of those cosplay, nerdy kind of because those are the best kind of women, the ones that are attractive, but they don't know that they're attracted.
Because I was like, why would you marry her after a year and a half?
But I can see the appeal behind that.
She's attractive and she doesn't, because there are some women out there, especially in nerdy spaces, where they have no idea how attractive they are.
It exists.
I've seen it.
It's absolutely true.
And for her, she spent most of her adolescence being obsessed with portraying guy characters.
So cross-playing is what they call it, right?
And but it was like kind of feminine guy characters, but nonetheless, it's like Peter Pan, you know, Link from Zelda.
And she'd make great costumes, but it's like, I could believe it because like I took her for a word on it, but I believed it because it's like, well, you know, every other convention, she's been a guy.
And so like, you know, it kind of, you know, to me, hedged the chance that, you know, she was lying.
And she was pretty socially awkward at the time, like, kind of like how she just newly started looking really good in very recent years.
And so then she was like socially not very well adjusted.
And so a lot of that led to me believing.
Okay.
Yeah.
I mean, fair enough.
20 isn't unbelievable.
When guys tell me 25, I'm like, yeah, okay.
20, I mean, I kind of don't believe it, but it's like curfew and we're dating.
It was like home by nine.
Oh, she lived at home too.
Okay.
Yeah, yeah.
So like it was believable to me.
And then like the boyfriends was like a guy who like, like, I think she had like one or two real boyfriends, but like nothing happened.
It was like a guy who wanted to be a professional League of Legends player, but he was Bronze League.
Okay.
So the OnlyFans, like at first, it was just bikini photos and that sort of thing.
Yeah, bikini photos.
I wanted to ask, I want to ask because this is what I wanted to bring up earlier.
Once again, there are going to be young boys in high school who have, whose friends' moms aren't OnlyFans.
You're going to go to college.
You have to factor in that you may be presented with an opportunity or you may be dating a girl that you like who's been on OnlyFans or is doing it.
How would you recommend a guy like navigate that whole thing?
Because you wouldn't, you wouldn't, I would think that from your situation, you wouldn't say that being on OnlyFans would be a disqualifier if you have the right boundaries, correct?
So like, If a guy were 27 years old, you know, just graduated college to be like an engineer, and he were to meet an attractive woman and she would be on OnlyFans.
What would you say to that guy?
If you were to say, Nick, what do I do?
I'm not sure.
What would you say to him?
I love that question because, like, I've contemplated it just kind of as a hypothetical for so long.
I guess for starters, I would hate to be a young guy today in the dating scene, right?
Because when I was there, it's like, okay, cool.
Like, you know, like everyone's in college, everyone's broke.
Like, it's, it's fine, right?
Even footing.
I can't even imagine trying to date a girl who's like, oh, yeah, I make $500,000 a month.
Like, in college, like, college age, I'd be like, I'd probably be just super intimidated.
Like, what?
You know, and so, like, to touch on your question now, and this is going to sound kind of like hypocritical, but like, I don't think I could certainly not marry like just, you know, the normal stereotypical OnlyFans girl that you might read about, right?
I think the line where I draw it is like, if you've had sex on camera with multiple different people, that would be probably a no-go for like a long-term relationship for me.
Whereas it's like if she had a boyfriend for a few years and then they did it, it's a little less because it's like, yeah, I mean, like, most girls have boyfriends and they have sex, right?
Like, it's kind of like that, right?
And certainly nothing like crazy, like group sex or whatever.
That's kind of where I would draw the line.
The advice I would give to him, it's just it's going to be very tough.
Like, set the boundaries early.
And ideally, you found you find the girl when she's not particularly big on OnlyFans because like it is, I can imagine, I mean, I've lived some of it, but I can imagine it would be really, really, really hard to kind of reign a person in who is like living kind of at that level.
I experienced it in my own life because she was dirt poor and broke when I met her and then I moved her in.
And like, even now, there are moments where it's like, she would not have talked to me like that, like, you know, nine years ago, right?
Like, it's not that I was a mean guy.
It's just that, like, there's a lot of like little things.
Like, she now walks away from every argument.
Back then, she wanted to finish every argument and resolve it, right?
Because she was living in my house and she was afraid to be kicked out, even though I never threatened that.
And so you see a lot of things where it's like, wait, this is not good enough for you anymore.
It used to be fine, right?
And that's kind of the biggest challenge.
And if she's already making a lot of money and you weren't part of that journey in any way, and you don't have something like kind of crazy going on, like you're like a sports star on the football team or something like that, it is going to be really hard.
Obviously, try it.
But you're going to have to be very secure and you're going to have to be somewhat unbothered, even with the caveat of set strong boundaries early and kind of set the expectation.
So do you regret making her such a big star now?
Or maybe the money was worth it?
It's hard to say that.
I've looked at it both ways.
Like, I'm generally a person who kind of moves forward in life and I don't look back.
And so like, I don't think I would change, you know, like making her a star.
I'll share a little bit of drama though.
Like me doing a little bit of streaming on my own has really angered her.
In fact, when I went to go close the door, it was because she was trying to gain entry because she did not want this conversation happening, which is crazy because I told her I'm not going to say anything.
I'm not going to say anything that's not true.
But she's always afraid of that.
And it's like, it's funny because it's like, I'm not even as big as she was in her peak by any means, right?
But like in her peak, it's funny because she will do that power every day, right?
She could go on stream and cancel meets 10,000 people, which she did at one point with, you know, things that were not true.
And now I have a tiny fraction of that power and like it's a problem.
And she wanted to sit in like right here.
Yeah.
So she canceled you the first time.
Was it like a year ago?
I think I missed that call.
October.
Okay.
And what did she say on the call?
I think I heard about it.
Like they kind of framed you.
What I remember, it was like they framed you as like making her do it or something.
Was that it?
Yeah.
Okay.
Well, because she implied it, right?
Okay.
That was so crazy for me because like in that entire scenario, right?
Like the only thing I was guilty of is yelling at her.
That's it.
Right.
Like, in fact, the news media focused in on this thing, but it was actually pretty crazy.
It was like she says he threatened to kill my dog, right?
I have never threatened to kill her dog ever.
Like the closest she, and she cites this as being threatening.
We used to have these, I don't know if you've seen them.
There's these like vertical things that you put or like diagonal things you put against your door to prevent a thief from being able to gain entry.
Have you seen those?
Like it's a doorstop thing.
Yeah.
Yeah, we had one of those.
And like what happened was she was threatening to run away from home.
And so I grabbed the doorstop thing, opened the door, said, go right ahead.
And then she's like, oh my God, are you going to hit me?
Or I hit the dog?
I'm like, oh, I was holding it up, you know, like, because I moved it.
And that's the closest she can say to like, oh, he is going to hit my dog.
I didn't touch the dog.
You know, it was just merely I was standing there holding it.
And she was like, I don't know, 40 feet away, right?
Like with the dog.
And so that's like the closest it got.
I believe that night on the phone, she misheard what I was saying.
And then like it kind of spiraled out of control.
And then like the additional charges tacked on were like, you know, obviously financially controlling her, making her do sexy stuff and all that, which is like basically trafficking.
Like it was kind of nuts to me because I was like, you know, we have entire employees whose job it is to actually ask you what you want to do.
And like, if I'm trafficking, it's going to look like, even though I had no oversight into her own offense at that point, it's going to look like that I told these people to do it.
And so you're going to have this problem.
And we did because a lot of people resigned, you know, because they're like, okay, well, we really can't be implicated here because they were the ones who actually asked her what they wanted, she wanted to do.
And she was saying that I forced her to do it.
And then so it's like that thing where it's like they're kind of in the middle.
And so those people all left.
Are you worried about potentially like being charged with something in the future?
Like you see, like, because I think like Andrew Tate, right, he's getting charges from girls, like cam girls he managed like 10 years ago, five years ago.
Does that worry you at all or no?
I don't think so, just because like, although I once did own an agency, I never really did any of the direct work.
I was just mostly just strategic and advising.
And in her case, I mean, anything could happen, you know, because she's obviously made stuff up before.
But like, I don't know, we have a post nump and there's like stipulations in it that we have to be amicable to an extent.
And so I don't think there will be any additional things.
That's what I hope.
Right.
But like, there's no evidence of me having done anything, though, is a thing other than her saying it on that stream.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Never underestimate the power of a spiteful woman.
Don't scare them.
Sadly, I'm learning.
Don't scare them.
I'm just kidding.
I'm just kidding.
Okay.
So then, so how did this fight start?
I mean, I'm sorry, I was not going to watch 12 hours of streaming.
I just wasn't going to do it.
So like, it's really messy right now because I've kind of moved all my stuff up here now.
Are you in the same, you're in the same house as her now still?
With an asterisk, this is, there's two properties on this complex.
Okay.
And like this one that I'm in is like this house used to belong to a car collector.
And so downstairs is like a multiple bay garage with a bunch of cars.
Her studio is downstairs in this building too.
And then obviously this used to be like an in-law suite or house, guest house.
And so I turned it into a cigar lounge plus just cut the bedroom the way it was basically.
And currently I've moved all my stuff from the closets in the house to here.
I don't know what's going to happen next, but I'm just kind of like, you know, so it's super messy.
But I was here smoking a cigar because there's filtration and all that.
And I just lit the cigar.
It's three.
It's like 2:50 a.m. or something like that.
Right.
I'm lighting the cigar and then she comes up.
And then I should have picked up on it, but she was in a clearly not a happy mood because she was like, hey, can you help me with the dogs?
And I was like, and I was like, no, fine, fine.
Like, I was just kind of like, you know, like groaning and feigned whatever.
Right.
And so then I'm walking with my cigar and I'm walking downstairs and she basically says, hey, you can't have that out there.
And I was like, why?
And she's like, you know, Ryder, one of the dogs might jump up, grab it from you, and eat it.
And I was like, he's never done that before.
And she goes, there's like a 10% chance.
And I was like, okay, I put it down.
We walk outside.
We're outside.
You know, we're doing the dog stuff, right?
You know, I'm helping when needed, but mainly she just has me there to hold the camera so that her kit contract is like fulfilled and all that.
And then I entertain chat with like jokes and stuff like that.
Right.
And then obviously, like, you know, if she needs a hand with the dogs or if one's like, you know, like, I guess getting into a tussle with another one, I help separate and all that too.
She separates.
It's just kind of like an extra hand.
And so I'm there doing it.
But like on this particular day, you know, which is like technically Sunday already, but late, she, the first dog we let out was like the German shepherd, one of the guard dogs.
And she was very hyper.
And this dog is like a six-figure dog.
And so it should be immaculately trained.
And it was kind of like not responding to commands.
It was like super hyper, right?
Very friendly still, like to us, but like just running all over the place, you know, jumping over stuff.
And like, that's a concerning thing because like this dog is friendly to us, but like, you know, in the event that like, you know, someone else is here, like a construction person or a contractor, like we don't want anything happening.
And so it being so high energy and able to jump over like the lower, lower gates was a problem.
And I was like, what the heck's going on?
And then the next two dogs, also hyper energetic and like, I think almost getting into a fight at one point.
And so I'm like, it's like a lot more work than the typical dog thing.
And then I just kind of errantly mentioned we have a full-time person who does animal stuff.
Like, why are they so high energy?
Like, did he come today?
Did they get taken out?
And she was like, no, he came today.
And I was like, okay, well, do we need a second person?
You know, because like these dogs are super hyper.
It's like they haven't been, you know, walked or whatever or something like that.
And then she suggested, no, let's just ask the first guy, the guy we've already hired, to come at the 3 a.m. shift.
I don't know why there needs to be a 3 a.m. shift.
That's kind of crazy to me.
The guy comes twice already a day, right?
Like 9 a.m. or 10 a.m.
And then like in the late afternoon.
And then she wanted a 3 a.m. shift for them.
And then, you know, obviously she's kind of an animal hoarder.
But like, because we have a full-time animal person and a lot of resources, they're all living quality lives.
But like, we don't even see them that much.
It's like 40 animals, seven dogs.
And I've allowed it, which I probably shouldn't have, because like I want her to be happy.
And like, it's like, if I can throw money at the problem, like, sure, why not?
Right.
Yeah, let's fucking give you my hand.
Your first mistake thinking women can be happy.
That was a mistake.
Keep going.
Sorry, keep going.
And so at this point, like, you know, like, so I say, like, you got to hire another person because if you get Chris to come at 3 a.m., 9 a.m. and like 3 or 4 p.m., he's going to burn out.
And that's not just speculation.
Our previous pet person who was really good, literally that exact thing.
She added the third shift, the third shift per day.
And we're talking seven days a week.
Like, like, and then the person just like fucking like basically broke.
And we paid good money, right?
That's why they voluntarily took that many shifts because they really wanted to up their income.
And like, but like coming three times a day, seven days a week, like literally, that person we had to let go because they literally lost one of the animals.
And when I talked to them about it, I was like, hey, we have to find it.
Like, you know, blah, blah, blah.
They were like, I really don't want to.
And so it's kind of like, okay, they're done, basically, right?
Like, they're just mentally, they can't keep doing it.
They don't even register that they lost one.
And so I didn't want that to happen with this current guy who's actually pretty good.
And so I said, we need to hire an additional person if we need a 3 a.m. shift.
But also, I don't think we need that.
I think we can shift it to where, like, I feel like most people don't have 3 a.m. shifts for their dogs, right?
And we have seven of them.
So 3 a.m. shift is like an hour to 90 minutes, right?
Like, it's like, it's like now it's like 4:30 a.m., you know?
And so, like, she's like, you're just complaining now.
And I was like, okay, you know, like, you know, I wouldn't be if like, you know, I could have my cigar out here, you know, like, I at least have something to do and like, you know, de-stress.
And that was the fucking powder pan.
Like, I still don't understand it.
I'm still trying to get her to tell me, like, can you explain like what exactly?
Like, I was complaining.
And then I mentioned a cigar.
And the closest I can approximate is this.
She actually says this, right?
She goes, because you're, you know, putting the dogs at risk of death.
And I was like, really?
Like, how?
She goes, Tobacco is very toxic.
I go, it was like one small cigar, right?
I was like, how much tobacco is toxic to dogs?
I looked it up, right?
A certain amount of milligram of nicotine is kind of the issue.
It would take, I believe, 16 cigars, him eating them at once, right?
For him to.
Nobody's going to think you could have killed the dog from a cigar.
Just so you know, right?
We're saying over here.
Yeah.
And plus, I keep holding it in my hand.
You don't have to, you don't have to.
You can.
It's fine.
Yeah.
Okay.
And so is that what started the fight?
When she was nagging about like the cigar.
It's crazy because I didn't even take a cigar out.
I just said, I wish I could have a cigar.
And then it was just like, oh my God, you want, you know, you want to kill dogs?
That's when that started it.
And I was just like, oh, no, like you hate them, don't you?
I was like, here's the crazy part, right?
I don't hate the dogs.
If she let me and we got a divorce, I would take some of the dogs, you know, one in particular, right?
And then in the past, and this is the craziest part to me, okay?
I spent nine months taking care of her dog that had cancer and then, you know, cooking a steak for it every day, nine months straight until it passed away, right?
And because it was such a heavy dog, she couldn't lift it.
And so I took it to the vet and lifted it up into the Jeep.
And this is like a, you know, before it got cancer, it was like 150 pound dog, right?
It became like a 110, 90 pound dog, but like, you know, and doing all that for it.
And so it's like, I've literally like, you know, sweat and bled for the animals on her behalf.
And so to say that I hate the dogs because I suggested I would smoke a cigar is kind of like, and so that's why I was just kind of like, and basically the rest of the fight was just me trying to say, I want you to tell me why you were so angry.
And she goes, isn't it obvious you're retarded?
Like, again and again.
And so like, that's the closest I can approximate.
Hopefully at some point she'll give me an answer or if she was like mad about something else or something like that.
Yeah.
That's usually what it is.
When someone picks a fight, they have because that back and forth, some people like to start that back and forth to be able to, because a lot of women, they want to start a fight, then tell you what's on their mind while you're already reacting, and then shame you for acting in a negative way.
So don't ever get that twisted.
Whenever a woman picks a fight like that, usually she's going to say something that's on her mind, but then it absolves her from accountability for anything that happens in the fight.
The smart, the smart one.
Sorry, I'm getting the water.
Thank you.
So how does that snowball?
So it started with.
Yeah, so how did that lead to 12 hours?
Wait, 24 hours total and the police?
So, a lot of people, like at least lately, when I started becoming a character on stream after the home, oh, actually, can I touch on one point?
Yeah, sure.
Like, I don't know if y'all saw it, but like, about early March, we had a home invasion.
Okay.
Oh, yeah, I did see that.
Yeah, I did.
Three armed gunmen, right?
And then, you know, I shot one and then like she was being held hostage.
I saved her.
My biggest gripe through this whole thing was like, I saved your life like a month ago.
Like, are you seriously like gonna like, and here's my bribe?
She did the first time she did not call the cops.
What happened was we were trying to grab the, I believe it's the camera, right?
And she had it on a tripod.
So it's not like I'm even grabbing her.
I'm grabbing the camera, right?
And so I'm grabbing the camera.
She grabs the camera too.
And then, you know, briefly we pull at it.
And then eventually I just give it back to her, right?
It was like the stream turned off for like 10 seconds.
And I gave it back to her.
And we're back there.
And then, you know, and everything's fine.
So like, and then someone called in to the cops basically.
And so here's the thing I learned.
Multiple people called it, right?
Because I got four or five different things.
Because when I was so, so they came and it's surprising because we get swatted a lot.
And so now it's generally just pretty chill.
And then they come up and they make sure everyone's okay and they check IDs and they're good, right?
This time it was a heavy knock on the door.
It's like the traditional SWAT, which I've also experienced.
And then I was like, who is that?
And I go to the door and through the frosted glass, I can see, you know, it's black uniforms.
I already know what's happening.
I was like, okay, open the door.
And I'm just like that.
I'm just preempting it.
Right.
And then two galucks in my face.
I was just like, okay, you know, like this turn around, they handcuffed me, which is really rare because it's like the fourth time I've been handcuffed, even though I've been swatted like 20 plus times.
And then they went real tight.
And then they also used a military zip tie.
And then they carted me away and threw me in the back of a squad car, which is not nowhere made out of plastic because I've never been in a squad car.
And so, and then I'm in here.
And then it's a lady cop, luckily, because she was more chatty.
And I was like, why am I in here?
Like, what did they call in?
I just had a curiosity.
And then she's, she, she called, you know, and asked.
And then she said, it's a few different calls, actually.
I was like, oh, okay.
I go, okay, well, what was the, what was the worst one?
And they're like, one viewer called in and said, on camera, you beat her unconscious.
And that, you know, they, you know, you might do worse.
And then, and then, you know, that's why the gun's a blazing thing, right?
And then there was some benign as like, we need a bonus check, right?
Which is fine.
But like, all these people called within like 10 seconds of the stream being offline, which is kind of crazy.
And so that was kind of the deal.
And we're very friendly with PD locally.
But like, I feel like when they call Houston just without really specifying, like, it's like police from like all these different boroughs coming in, which is, I believe, the case.
And so then the cops came, they checked it out.
They, you know, she didn't lie or anything.
She told the truth and said, no, like there was no physical thing whatsoever.
Right.
Also, also there's a live stream.
So it's like you can basically prove it with security cameras.
And that was at the end of the, that was at the end of the 12 hours of fighting or like 24.
Okay.
Yeah.
But then the part that incensed me was after I got swatted, I came back.
Right.
And then like, you know, we're going to be able to do that.
Oh, so the cops come?
I thought she called the cops on you.
No, so she was.
Oh, my.
Oh.
Yeah.
It's a three-day day.
This is a long day for you.
Yeah, no, it was, it was very long day.
And so like, then we sit down and we start arguing.
And like, I was like pretty shooken because like it's been a while since I've had a gun pointed in my face.
Well, other than the break-in, but like, I think those guys barely got it to, like, they're turning around to shoot me.
And so it wasn't literally like, you know.
And so I remember saying, like, that was crazy.
And then I was like, I looked at it, I was like, you should probably condemn whoever in chat did that.
And this is where like, I kind of like really got mad because she was like, she was like, why?
And I was like, why should we condemn the person who just did the swatting?
And she was like, yeah, why?
And I was like, I don't know, because it puts us at mortal risk.
You know, you're not even riskless.
Like, you know, if I was at the doorway standing in front of you, like, they could shoot a bullet through me, right?
Like, it's like it's dangerous for everyone, also your dogs.
I made that point in the thing.
I was like, your dogs, she's normally nervous when we get swatted because, oh, no, don't shoot my dogs.
And she runs, you know, secure the dogs, right?
No, no reaction this time, right?
Like, like, my cigar is fucking deadly, but the fucking cops running around is like fine, apparently.
Like, it's just selective.
Um, and so then, uh, you know, basically, she wouldn't condemn it.
In fact, she actually said this on stream.
She was like, you know, between you, me, right, and the guy who called in the beat her unconscious thing, I'm the one who's at fault for the swatting, not the swatter.
I was just like, my brain was like exploding because I think about it and it's like, I don't even have to know a person.
Like, I could just read about another streamer being swatted and I'd feel bad and say, obviously, it shouldn't happen.
Like, it's deplorable.
She couldn't say that for someone on this journey alongside her.
That was like inconceivable to me, right?
And then, you know, we argued for a bit longer and then she got upset and then she called the cops.
That call, she had muted them up.
And so that call she kind of made pretty serious because she, nothing new had happened at that point between the first cop showing up and then the second time where she called.
And so she decided that she was going to list all the things that happened earlier in the day, such as like the, you know, the stuff that should have already been covered because the cops came.
And so obviously they asked her questions and then they didn't find anything wrong.
So they left.
I feel like if she's going to call the cops again, it had to be something after the first call, before the second call.
But she just started talking about yesterday and earlier, just to try to make it a lot a laundry list of things.
Luckily, she didn't really lie.
It's just like, oh, I feel threatened.
I feel threatened, which she does not, you know, like, like, like, literally, I saved her life.
And like, you know, like, like, she came to me in that moment for me to save her.
And so then, you know, they didn't come then.
And then she got upset and called them a third time, or I guess the second time, which is the third time that they would have come.
And then this time I was like, hey, it's kind of weird that for everything in this thing, because she's the one who streamed this fight.
Okay.
Like, I kept asking her because usually when we fight, she mutes it and she goes off camera, right?
Like, like a sane person would, right?
This one, for whatever reason, she never wanted to mute it and she wanted to stream the fight.
And so like, that obviously also contributes to me being swatted because her fans, you know, might want to get rid of me.
So basically, she calls them a third time.
And this time I say, no, no, no, I want the stream on this one.
And so we put it on with audio.
And then she says the most true version of any of the calls she's ever done.
And it's just like, literally, the cop told her straight up, ma'am, we cannot get involved because there is no issue.
Y'all are arguing, right?
It's on stream, so there's evidence.
He's never hit you.
You know, she's yelling more than I am.
It's like, she's like, this cop was just like, ma'am, like, this is not what you call this fan.
I know.
I was like, that clearly, like, exoneration.
The clips that I was watching, she's like screaming, and then you talk back, and she's like, oh, my God.
I was like, poor guy.
I learned that if I yell, I'm an abuse her.
If she yells, I'm also an abuser.
So, okay.
So then she called the cops and they basically said it's nothing.
Yeah, so they would not come out.
Okay, when did the stream end?
Like, what was the so ironically, she kind of storms off at one point.
Um, and then I actually sit there and stream an extra eight hours telling my side of the story.
No way.
Well, at least you got your side of the story out there because not a lot of guys had that chance once allegations are made.
And I'm pretty sure in those eight hours, you gave every single little detail because the worst thing, you know, women are really good at getting their side of the story out there.
And then, because men aren't on social media as much, so you're on defense.
People have heard her version of the story, and you're constantly backpedaling and ducking and dodges.
So, good job with that.
Thank you.
Yeah, I'll never convince them that the 2022 incident, though, you know what I'm saying?
Like, like, it's like that old quote: like, uh, the lie gets around the world seven times before the truth gets out of bed.
Like, yeah, I get what you're saying.
Like, luckily, right after I had the chance to talk about it, because like it feels like a week, a month, like that degrades the value of it so much.
Yeah, so um, like, where are you guys at now?
Yeah, what's the current state?
I think this call might have pissed her off to the point where maybe, I mean, we probably could have been already had a divorce.
Maybe this also does it.
Well, what, like, what do you want?
Like, what's who cares what she wants?
What do you want?
Honestly, if I got I'm willing to apologize for yelling because, like, fine.
Uh, but like, if I got an apology for her saying that it was she didn't say exactly it was okay, she just said, like, between the guy who swatted you and you, it's it's you who deserves the blame for the swatting.
Uh, and like, I would like an apology for that.
So, you want to work it out, and then like, you just want an apology, and then I'm fully okay with both at this point.
Like, at this point, it's so crazy.
Like, the kind of tipping off point for me was like, I just risked my life to save her life, like, a month ago.
Like, what in like, and I've never hit her, and so it's like, what in the world happened that, like, you're this mad about me suggesting I smoke a cigar?
I have a cigar lounge, and you interrupted me trying to smoke one for, for you know, I don't want to cuss, uh, for heck's sake.
Um, so, like, it just blows my mind.
Like, I feel like it's like the most natural thing ever because I was already smoking a cigar.
Um, I don't know, like, she has her good moments for sure.
And, like, here's the sad part, right?
I am almost 100% certain that if we quit this online career, that it would be fine.
It's the need to get a story out to talk to all of her fans and make sure they don't think a certain way of her.
She won't ever admit it, but like, it affects a person.
This fight would not have happened if she wasn't like intent on streaming it, right?
Because it's just not enough to set anything off, right?
I still to this, I can't figure out why this was such a crazy thing.
Like, um, I continue the conversation mainly just to find out because I was like, did something crazy happen that you're not letting me in on?
And I did wrong, and that whatever.
But, like, yeah, so I'm okay with either.
Like, this is probably I've been here before, but I feel like the difference here is we're both here at the same time, where I think we're both ready to be done, but also at least somewhat open to working it out.
Um, and so I don't know what's gonna happen, honestly, but uh, I'm sure this interview did not help.
So, what happened over here?
I'm sorry, go ahead, Brad.
What happened with the producer?
So, did she not see that?
She's hooking up Daquan.
I don't know.
Do you know who spread that version first?
Because I don't know.
I just saw a clip on X.
Yeah.
You can.
Oh, because they're saying it's the guy from Fresh and Fit.
And that's absolutely not.
Like, that's not what I was inferring.
It was just another.
Yeah, I mean, like, I don't even know that guy.
Obviously, she met that guy because she took a photo.
But, like, it wasn't that guy that I was even referencing.
Yeah, it was a guy who's not really a social media person.
So it's like someone like one of the crazy.
You don't have to say his name.
Was it like someone a guest on the crew or something?
Like, was it just a shit?
No, it's nothing like that.
It's like, it's nothing to do with Freshman Fit.
That was like a weird.
And I apologize if I wasted your time because this is like the red pill titan that y'all care about.
But like no one on Fresh and Fit has been with her, although Walter tried.
I think he tries with a lot of people.
But no, I guess my question is: so did she cheat or did she not cheat?
Like what happened?
You can be honest.
It's all right.
Like, you know.
She will murder me in my sleep if I don't tell her version of it.
But basically, so she used to.
Oh, yeah, she did.
You're not, you're hesitating too much.
She did something.
Well, so look, I drove up and like all the information is like terrible, right?
Like, I drove up, it's 2 a.m.
She's not answering her phone, right?
Now, she's not at his house, but like, she's in a parking lot in a dangerous part of town.
And her Jeep is there with its doors wide open.
And I drive up and from a distance, I can see she's standing, he's standing there embracing.
Okay.
She maintains that nothing happened.
He just hugged her and then he tried to kiss her, but she pushed away.
That's her version.
But when I drove up, they were very closely embraced.
Okay.
And I thought I saw, which I might have saw, but I'm just going to say I thought I saw that her hand was down his trousers.
She maintains that her arms were out of her jacket sleeves and just hanging at that level.
Don't let her gaslight you, King.
Don't let her gaslight you, King.
It would look like hands, you know, kind of going in, right?
Like, don't let her gaslight you.
I've heard this before.
But when I showed up, right, she jumped back from him.
And like, he's a way bigger guy than me.
Okay.
Like, like, the dude is like 6'162 and like super jacked.
And so I show up.
And it's weird because I do conceal Carrie, but I had no intention of using my gun whatsoever.
She calling?
She calling.
Yeah.
And she basically doesn't say anything and correct the story.
And so this guy thinks that she's divorced and I'm stalking her.
We're very much married.
And so then he threatens to fucking pulverize me.
And I was, you know, if you started hitting me, I don't know if I'd pull my gun out because I just don't think that's a warrantable situation.
I guess it probably is, but like, and then he threatened to call the cops.
I go, go ahead and call the cops.
Right.
Like, and then he was like, you know, or, you know, I might take care of this on my own.
Right.
And then he just, we just kind of squared off for a bit.
And then he eventually left.
Like, he didn't do anything.
I didn't do anything.
Right.
And then, you know, we got her home.
You know, and then that's when she told me her version of it.
It's kind of how it goes.
Yeah.
Okay.
So you basically.
So you didn't see her doing it for sure, but you're pretty sure you saw it.
I was driving up from a fair bit of distance.
And so it's like, but like, you know, I mean, she's embracing the guy.
She's not pushing him away at that point.
She says that she pushed him away when you tried to kiss her.
They weren't kissing.
So it's like, but then you have to go to go like this, right?
Like, okay, so you're saying.
What are you doing in the parking lot at 2 a.m. with another dude?
Like, what are you doing?
Also, you pushed him away, we try to kiss you.
So now you know his intentions, right?
And then y'all hug again.
Like, that's kind of weird.
You know?
Yeah, don't let her gaslight you.
I've heard this before.
Okay, so they're saying in the chat that Chris said he there's nothing with Chris, though.
They're saying in the chat that he did it.
I don't know.
I think they're jumping onto a good story.
I'll take your word.
I don't know.
Just looking at the chat, okay.
So, from what I've seen, the social dynamic and the social contract of you guys' marriage has completely changed over 10 years, man.
Oh, yeah, right.
Now, now, over here, we say that men would ideally men would want their wife to stay the same as when they got married, like the day that they got made for the rest of their lives.
But you're in a completely different universe, man.
So what are you going to do with?
Are you going to be able to stay in this dude dynamic?
Like, have you thought about how you're going to navigate this dude?
Because you said that she walks away from you now, like she's the one who resolved the argument.
She walks away from you.
She's hugged up with Tyrone Maximus at two o'clock in the morning.
Like, this is a question.
I mean, how are you going to handle this new dynamic?
And is this something that you're willing to put up with?
It's kind of like, well, I mean, obviously, I can do something, but we have a post-nump.
So, like, the asset part of it is like, you know, knock on wood.
It's fine.
But, like, ball is kind of in her court because it's like, I'm not, I need her to walk back to the swatting thing.
Like, it have to be at least starting from there.
Yeah, like, the dynamic has changed.
Like you said, like, basically, when I met her, and like, people will say this is like power dynamic, blah, blah, blah.
But, like, it's like I had all the cards, right?
I had a good job.
She was living in my house, you know, using my stuff, blah, blah, blah.
Right.
And back then, she was different.
And everyone would be, right?
Because now, whether she's actually accurate or not, she doesn't think she needs me financially whatsoever.
Right.
Like, and maybe that's right, but I do a lot of back-end stuff too, you know, like taxes and all that.
And sure, you could hire a tax person, but like, like, I don't know, I feel like I do a pretty bang up job.
I don't want to say what it is, but it's like a lot of accelerated depreciation stuff on real estate.
Like, I feel like I've added on my own 20 million to the net worth just from tax savings via legal strategies.
But, you know, she doesn't think she needs me financially.
Right.
And right at this moment, I don't think she thinks she wants or needs me personally.
I just, the main thing for me is this, right?
The glue for me is this, right?
I've been with this person for 10 years.
And no one I ever find is going to have an understanding of the journey that I went through during this period other than her.
And it's vice versa, too.
I don't know if she cares about that.
And so like part of me is like, man, dude, I don't want to explain myself to another person.
I don't know if I'd ever even settle down with another person if we split, right?
Like, I always thought it was going to be a bachelor for life.
But like, yeah, the dynamic has changed and it's kind of balls in her court.
I hope that if we stopped doing this, you know, career, that like things would go back to some semblance of whatever, because we never fight when it's not about work or while one of us is working, right?
What would life after this career, this quote-unquote career look like?
Do you have any idea what that would look like at all?
It's kind of funny because it's like her idyllic life, right?
She wants to buy a huge swath of acreage out in the middle of nowhere, you know, probably Colorado, and then just build a house and then, you know, put up a horse stable, right?
And that's like within the realm of reach pretty easily.
And so, yeah, I mean, like, that's what it is.
And I don't, you know, I'm more of a beach house person, but like, I'm a guy.
And so, like, I really don't care about my surroundings as long as I get to do what I want, right?
Like, like, you know, if I can shoot guns on my own land, that'd be kind of cool.
But yeah, that's kind of how I feel about it.
It's her preference for the lifestyle that we live, right?
And I was willing to, you know, still am maybe leaning in my resources to kind of help make it happen because that's the thing.
You split this net worth in half.
Like she probably has enough to kind of run all the crazy stuff that happens here in terms of the costs because there's a lot of house staff, right?
Three cleaners three times a week.
Um, and then pet people and like uh personal assistants who book trips, and there's a lot of like overhead costs, right?
And so she could maintain it on her half.
Um, if you look at the residual income that that half spins off, but I don't think she would be able to buy this ranch and then also the residual costs that it's going to cost.
And so, like, it's kind of like the thing, but I don't know if like I want her staying for that reason, you know.
So, it's I'm out of impasse.
So, has it been kind of awkward the last few days in the house?
Absolutely.
Are you kind of scared?
Are you kind of scared for after this stream?
I think she just kind of stonewalled me, honestly.
Um, it's funny because, yeah, like when I started streaming and talking a little bit, like she hated that, like, she was mad about it all day today.
Like, in the morning, she was like neutral-ish.
It gives you more power, that's why, yeah, yeah.
In the afternoon, she was just like very clearly mad.
And I tried to be like a decent person yesterday because both of us hadn't eaten 36 hours.
I ordered her food too.
And, you know, as a statement of defiance, not defiance, but just like just to make a statement, she chose not to eat it.
It's like her, what she usually likes to see.
And then today, she did ask me to go and get her something, and I did get it to her, but like, it didn't chill the icy demeanor whatsoever.
She's, I don't know, how often do you guys fight?
Like, just normally there was a time, and ironically, it coincided with when she was making like obscene amounts of money, like two to 2.5 a month, where it would be like almost weekly, right?
Because the stakes were so high.
And then, like, I get it.
It's like it is a lot of money.
And so, then, like, tempers go for the smallest thing, right?
Because it used to be like, you know, maybe one wrong typo on a tweet could be like cost 50,000 of opportunity costs.
And so, it's, it was a crazy time.
And so, we used to fight a lot, but now it's mellowed out so much that I'm so surprised that she's just angry, right?
We fight, like, in my opinion, like, if we're talking an actual fight, like not even necessarily of this caliber, like a fight where we're actually both like, this is a fight, right?
Probably every two months.
Is there like another guy, maybe in the because sometimes women will like pick fights if they want to leave and they want to like like because women were so fueled by our reputation that if like if we want to leave and not look like the bad guy, we have to figure out a way to make you the bad guy.
Got it, yeah.
So, is there like a potential?
I mean, I don't know if you'll even say it if there is on street, but like, is there someone else?
Is she talking still talking to Daequan?
Or no, she hasn't talked to that guy since that night.
Um, and then, like, I know there's not another guy because she streams so goddamn much.
Like, I think she's averaging like 15 hours a day because of the way her kick contract is structured.
She's like in a quarter an hour, and so it's been uncapped, right?
So, she's been spamming the hours.
Um, well, but yeah, but you could still message someone on Instagram, you could, but she doesn't even run her own Instagram.
Oh, so she doesn't, okay, yeah, yeah, like she doesn't run her own socials like by choice, right?
Because we have people who do that.
Um, she takes pictures, obviously, but then like they figure everything out.
Sometimes she reads the proof and whatever.
I can give you a little red meat ancillarily.
I know exactly what you're talking about, though.
Like, we did a show once, I'll even name drop the person because I don't care.
We did a show once, a big produced show that costs like 700 grand to throw.
And a streamer, a fairly popular name to Linity, was at this thing.
And she kind of regaled everyone with stories in the back of the bus when we were going to this event.
And like, it's so crazy because she said this to a bus full of other influencers.
Like, it was like the most natural thing.
She was like, I really like the lifeguard at the event place, but I have a long-term boyfriend who runs my OnlyFans, right?
And then everyone's like, Yeah, it's tough, right?
And then she imagine if a guy, a guy, imagine if you said that.
I like the look.
Like the hot girl at the event.
You know what I mean?
I have a streamer.
Go ahead.
Go ahead.
She straight up says, like, almost like villain monologuing to an entire group of people who are probably going to gossip.
Like, she literally says, you know what?
I bet I could call them right now, get into a fight with him.
And then we're broken up.
I'm going to sleep with this guy tonight.
And then tomorrow I can wake up.
Oh, she said that.
In front of you?
In front of you?
Like, in front of like 10 other influencers in a bunch of stuff.
Oh my God, you're cooked.
Oh, my God.
Like, it's another thing to be like, it's okay to talk about them.
I really hope you're not cooked.
You seem like a very nice guy.
I gotta, I do predict for a living.
It's not looking good.
This is not.
So I have a question.
So I have a list of things that are just one and done.
If a woman calls the cops on me, I'm done.
I'm done.
Like, you know, if a, you know, if a woman, it's just so have in your head, have any lines been crossed where you're tolerating stuff that you never thought that you could tolerate?
I mean, like, have any of your one and done's lines been crossed?
And you're trying to wonder if you want to keep.
You understand what?
I'm going to ask you.
For that moving the goalpost, two of them, right?
Easily two of them.
The cancellation stream in 22 was one, right?
And then the second one was the swatting thing.
Like this one, but you know, also like we got pretty close to a few other times too.
And so obviously these are like really, really bad.
But like there is a little bit of solace, which maybe I shouldn't have, but it's like, you know, when she did the dispatch call, she didn't lie.
And so she called the cops twice.
They didn't come for her.
It was the viewer that called the crazy thing that got them to come.
so it's kind of a gray area you know um so they're really telling me you're lying about this About what I'm saying.
No, no.
She's texting me to say that, and this is true.
It's a linity and not her on the bus story.
Yeah.
Who's a Linity?
Oh, it's a big female streamer on Twitch.
One of the OGs, kind of.
Yeah.
Yeah.
They're saying that you like or fake the fighting.
Absolutely not.
Like, like the swatting was so surprising because after the robbery, we have, we hire cops to be security.
And like the guy who was on duty, they're humans.
And so they have to go and grab lunch.
And so they take a lunch break.
And so it was during this lunch break that like our cop wasn't out there because that would have been very helpful.
You know what I'm saying?
Like our cop talking to the cops that are coming.
We'd be like, no, no, there's nothing that crazy happening here.
You know, but he was out and hence why the knock on the door was actually like cops had no idea of anything.
Right.
Absolutely not.
They're always going to say it's fighting.
They said the robbery was fighting and I shot a dude and four guys are facing two counts of five to 99 years.
Right.
And they're in prison right now.
Right.
I'm talking to the DA all the time.
Like, so like they don't always say that because they think for whatever reason that she is a liar.
But like, I don't know, like the 22 situation, like, obviously there was a lot of overstating.
Right.
But like her feeling was real.
Like she was upset.
And she did, you know, I claim misconstrue what I'm saying.
And so like, every fight has been real.
There's never been a stage fight.
But as is the nature of social media, like, you know, it kind of benefits from entropy.
All movement is good movement, right?
Like, it's like all publicity is good publicity.
What would prevent her from doing this again?
Like, what would be if you guys do work it out?
Like, wouldn't the same thing like because you because you're showing that you would accept it, right?
If you like, so what would stop her from doing this to you in like six months?
And also, the certain things.
So, if you're in a married situation, once you say the word divorce, you can never put it back in the bottle, or you know, you don't have guys, you don't have any kids.
But, example, if you're a man and you're with your wife and she says, Well, you have kids, well, the kids ain't yours.
You could never put that back in the bottle.
And I think a couple of things that you can't have happen where you can't put it back in the bottle.
Understand what I'm saying?
You're saying, What do we have in that?
I mean, yeah, the saying of divorce, because we've both said it, uh, probably me a little more so.
Okay, definitely more so.
Um, there's that.
I mean, it's tough, right?
Because uh, I would love for it to be like this hard policy of like, if we're having any kind of discord, that like it does not be made into content.
I actually don't want the drama out there, right?
People saying it's fake.
I would rather take it all back.
We were making great, we were making two to 2.5 before the first drama ever hit before that first 2022 call.
No one is doing it for that.
Like, I mean, I'm sure you understand this.
It's like if you're making 2 to 2.5 million a month, you're not going to rock the gravy train to get more famous.
You're going to milk it as long as you can.
That was our plan.
And we milked it for up to already a year and a half at that point, right?
Every month, 2 million plus.
And so, we were not trying to change any formulas.
That's like the best proof that there was nothing.
And honestly, other than we signing Jainon's kick deal, we actually lost money other than that very first month.
That first month was weird.
People like joining an abused person's own fans or the perceived being abused person's own fans.
And it was like the highest month ever.
But then every other month after that was lower than two, but not by that much, but still, like, we lost money for that.
I know everyone thinks we made money.
It did not happen.
And this drama will probably make us lose some amount of money as well.
Well, yeah, it's like it's short-term versus long-term, right?
Because if you have enough of this stuff, people kind of tune out.
You know, if you guys did like another one, like, no one, you know, it's like at some point.
I think we're going to pass that point, honestly.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, not completely.
I have a lot of people watching right now.
Okay.
I'm going to do the super chats real quick.
If they roast you, I'm sorry, but I tell them I read them always.
So they roast me sometimes too.
I'm okay with being roasted.
Okay.
I have this playing in the background, but don't care much.
Looks like Amaris sent in the simp squad, which is entertaining.
Vincent said years ago when the outcomes for marriage were the opposite.
It was if we use your view of the world, why would we take such a shit deal and reverse it to why wouldn't men take such a good deal?
How did society change prescripts?
Women who also want to change society, they also need them.
Biblical patriarchy is greater than red pill.
Allowing your spouse to do OF means there's a level of acceptance.
Where's the cutoff to the behavior?
What percentage of marriages survive shades of infidelity?
And how what percent of marriages end due to infidelities?
$5 shamelessly foisted upon to pearl for other than the fact that I want more pearly things in my life.
Damn, I guess that makes me a simp.
It really does.
Yeah.
If five men try soggy soyo just one time, it makes it a degenerate.
This woman is not pretty enough to be this exhausting.
Thanks for debating 07, LOL.
Advocating men to check out will leave to more men on aliving yourself.
Are you reasonable?
Follow your own logic.
And no fault, divorce and Mary, there is a separation of church and state, but not for marriage.
Next time, ask him what gender roles between men and women have been broken down.
If so, with propaganda, women could control the fix divorce.
Glenn, let me call in.
I think that's all.
Some of them were for the last guest, not you.
So if they didn't make sense, that's why.
Okay, well, I'm glad you got your side of the story out.
I hope you guys figure it out.
Doug MPA, do you have any other questions for him?
I think I really went through everything I had.
You built one of the biggest people in your space.
I'd say the biggest.
Pearl always says that there's a man behind every successful woman on these platforms.
I do.
And maybe you're struggling with that.
What's that cost fallacy where you sunk a lot of costs into a situation and a person?
But, you know, I don't know what's going to happen.
But in general, if things end, men are generally more successful at the divorce and women are not.
So, you know.
Plus, all the girls will be at them.
They'll be like, make me famous.
Or like, come up like a line of like 22-year-old OF girls.
You're probably struggling with what you, you know, doing the right thing or what you have to do.
Man, you don't have to do nothing, man.
You know, figure out what you want to do.
Just do it.
You know what I'm saying?
Like, you don't have to put up with disrespect.
You don't have to put up with someone talking back.
Like, and most of the time, you're going to think that someone is.
Oh, yeah, it's the cost fallacy.
You'd be surprised.
You think that, you know, having been married and divorced myself, you think that that person has something that nobody else has?
Like, oh, my God, they're so special.
There's no one like them.
Then on the other end, you find out and you realize that they're just like everybody else.
No, I mean, I do need to hear some.
I've been so, you know, stuck in this world and the grind that I haven't really stopped to think about it.
I definitely hear what you're saying, though.
Yeah.
I appreciate the wisdom.
Yeah.
And you know what?
Hey, there's this red pill space.
We need more voices, man.
Come on over.
Stories for another time.
I got a seat for you.
Have a seat, man.
I swear, he got divorced.
All the girls would be chasing him down.
I have so many people, my DMs, asking me to manage their OnlyFans and telling me I'm hot.
Like, literally.
I know.
I'm like, that's okay.
Why do you think they like she hates you streaming?
When men stream, they get bitch.
Yeah, well, men act a little bit different when they have 20 other girls that you like.
And also, look at your results, man.
Look at your results.
Not only you're confident, competent, capable, and you're streaming, and you have results to back up.
I mean, come on, man.
You just have to figure out what's best for you because you always say when men win, everyone wins.
And when women win, they win for themselves.
And a lot of successful, ambitious men, the modern women pathologies, they want successful, intelligent, ambitious men to set their desires aside to help them win in their own selfish desires.
Anything you do is going to benefit everyone around you, whereas most women, anything they do only benefits themselves.
So, and I think maybe the dynamic changed and she started talking to you crazy when you started putting your desires aside and helping her achieve her selfish desires because that's usually one of the first indications that you're putting your ambitions and success aside for the sake of hers.
Does that make sense?
No, that does.
I've always assumed that generally speaking, you know, men, even ones that make a lot of money, it's like, obviously, like, I mean, the wife still makes a lot of purchasing decisions, right?
Like, the wife benefits to echo what you're saying.
Like, yeah, when men win, like, the women also come along for the ride, but it doesn't always happen not nearly as frequently in reverse, unfortunately.
Yeah.
Yeah, when women win, we just divorce.
Sadly enough.
That's all I got, Doug, MPA.
You got anything else?
Yeah, I'm just really glad that your story out there and just keep you keep control of the narrative, man.
Until the dust settles, however, because over here, we're not saying, you know, pull the trigger on breaking up or divorce or whatever.
Only you can determine that.
But the fact that you're helping control the narrative hasn't gotten away from you is big, man.
That is big.
So you keep telling your story, man.
Keep telling it and keep saying your side of the story.
I appreciate the other perspective.
Well, thanks so much for coming on.
Do you have anything you want to plug?
I mean, I guess I'll plug my Twitter.
Sure, sure.
It's one word, Nick Wick Lee.
Wick, like John Wick, Wick.
Oh, I thought what account did I follow?
I think you messaged me there.
Or is the Instagram?
Oh, oh, it's oh, okay.
I didn't realize the title is Amaris Husband.
Okay.
Yeah, I see it.
Yeah.
I'm going to put it in the chat.
I appreciate that.
But, you know, this was great.
I'm glad I got to talk.
And, you know, I made sure, you know, everything I said was truthful.
She was fact-checking me some.
Probably a lot.
Amarit, shut up.
Stop nagging him.
You called the cops on him.
You should be on your knees right now, lady.
I know.
And you think you owe your career to this man right here.
Come on.
I hope she.
I hope you, you know, she's watching.
If you think like your success was you, you are, please, God.
I know so many women that are flat broke that have had the same, like, that had your following or whatever.
You would not be where you're at without the guy behind you.
You would, like, there's no way.
I don't know a single woman that's done it.
None.
Zero.
In fact, zero.
I'm an expert in this industry.
Go ahead, Doug.
Pro did a reaction where Megan Kelly and Anna Kasperian were talking about, oh, yeah, men don't want to date women who work and this and that, whatever, or don't appreciate women's careers.
I have it all.
I have it all where Megan Kelly's first husband was a surgeon, and then her second husband was a CEO worth like $80 million.
So while she was building her career, she was with these successful guys who were able to facilitate her going to law school, facilitate when she got into media, right?
And then she divorced those two guys.
Now she's with this guy, and she had her three kids through, I think she spent like $80,000 on IBF three different times.
And now she says she has it all, but it was on the backs of the two previous men.
Yeah.
Sorry, go ahead, go on down to MP.
But she's built her career off your back, dude.
Yeah, and he can do better.
You know, men, if they can get you, they can always get someone hotter than you and 10 years younger.
It just says what it is.
It's the life of a woman.
So, you know, if you're not, if you're not going to treat him right, someone else will, lady.
Stop texting him.
So, thanks.
Leave the poor guy alone.
He's been through enough.
Enjoy those cigars, man.
Enjoy those cigars.
Come on.
Smoke 10.
I just want one last word, Doug.
That story of Megan Kelly, there's like a slightly better one, which is you should look into Lauren Sanchez, the girl that's with the lady that's married to Jeff Bezos now.
Like, that is the Olympics of not gold digging, but like NFL player, Patrick Whiteselle, which is like the biggest co-owner of the biggest agent in Hollywood.
Jeff Bezos.
Yeah.
What do we call her, Pearl?
The mythical mid.
Remember, she's the mid that's wanted all.
She's the success story of just how far a mid can go.
We don't cover a lot of success stories here for women, but occasionally, you know, most of the time when there's a breakup, the women do worse and the men do better.
But occasionally, there's a woman that beats the odds, and Sanchez really did.
She really did.
Her case should be studied by freaking sociologists and anthropologists, bro.
I don't know how she did it.
Wow.
Like you said, NFL player Pete Whitesell and then Jeff Bezos, man.
Yeah, and you don't get any purity.
The other thing she's got to realize, if she's out on the market, you're not going to get, she might be like only one guy or whatever.
No man's going to view her like that.
You'd have to go, oh my gosh, you'd have to go the streamer route.
Oh, and I know I'm a streamer.
What?
The shitty part is she met Jeff Bezos because Patrick invited Jeff Bezos to a party.
Yeah, that's true.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I'm just saying, Amara, I would start being nicer instead of nagging because I'm telling you, the other side, if you guys break up, she's probably watching.
The other side of this isn't going to be fun for you.
It's really not.
Women never appreciate all the things men do.
You're probably not going to be as good at managing your own money.
A lot of guys, like the guys interested in you are really going to be entertainers.
That's a shit show of date.
Good luck with that.
Like this is, you know, so I would try to, I would try to maybe, because I don't know why she's nagging you on stream.
I mean, instead, you should be trying to make up for it.
But hey, you know, lady.
Here's the thing.
You guys have emotional investment.
You're the last vestige of her having any kind of normal relationship dynamic.
After you, it's going to be nothing but other people in the industry.
Yeah, I'm telling you, dating as a public figure, you don't.
It's as a guy, it makes his life way better as a woman.
Guys don't like that.
I could say this.
Yeah, so I don't know.
Maybe think of ways to make it up to him instead.
I'd recommend that, but do as you will.
Yeah, Doug MPA, you got anything else?
Nope, that's it, man.
Well, thanks for coming on.
I really appreciate it.
I appreciate the opportunity.
Yeah.
And you always have a platform here.
So if anything pops off, you want to get your story out.
Yeah.
Hit us up.
I appreciate that.
Thank you.
All right, guys.
Let me see if there's any more super chats.
She made her.
How much money is she worth?
She's worth like 20 million.
I'll look it up.
Women, we never appreciate what we have, huh?
We really do.
I'm like, do you know how many girls I know in that same position that are like flat broke?
Like 25 million.
Yeah.
I'm like, most, yeah.
What a cool guy, man.
He's a cool guy.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's what I'm saying.
I'm like, if they break up, he'll be fine.
There'll be like 22-year-olds lining up.
Her, on the other hand, who would she go for?
She'd have to literally, she would have to go for a streamer because like any semblance of guys that have normal jobs would not touch her.
And then from what he was saying, she's had, you know, she hasn't been out here thoughtting it up.
Oh, well.
She has the image of being a thought.
Yeah.
So that's going to conflict.
Is she going to be dating with that image?
It's just a disaster.
Let me show you your dating pool, Amara.
I know she's watching.
These are the types of guys that date OnlyFans models.
I'm sorry, Neon.
You seem like a nice guy.
Oh, shit.
I unplugged this earlier.
This is your future.
Can they see it?
Yeah, this is your future.
Now, let me continue.
Maybe you might get like, because you're, I mean, she's got like.
What about Destiny?
Yeah, Destiny would do it.
Yeah, Destiny.
Here you go.
Yep.
Amory, like, this is what's on the other side.
Yep.
There are guys.
I'm not going to lie to her.
She's good looking enough.
There's guys that are going to accept you.
I'm not going to, I'm not one of those.
But the types of guys, like any semblance of like normal corporate American.
It's just, I'm hoping that Nick knows that he doesn't have to put up with this respect.
Here's another one that I think would do it, you know?
If he ever gets divorced, yeah, he'll do it.
Who else?
Who else could her date?
Bevo.
Who?
Bevo.
Bevo.
So I'm putting Bevo.
No, it's.
How do you spell his name?
This guy?
Oh, Bevo here.
No, no.
Bevo.
Are you sure?
It says B-E-V-A.
It's B-E-A-V-O.
B-E-A-V-O.
Oh, this guy.
That guy.
Yeah, he'll do it.
I mean, you might be able to look at it.
Lauren Sanchez did win.
There are women that do it and win.
I'm not going to pretend.
I don't know if I know.
She would have to.
Do you know the other group of men?
You're going to have to go younger than you.
Yeah, you're going to have to go trap a guy that doesn't know better.
Like that's what Michaela Peterson did.
She went for a young guy.
So yeah, your options in the future are probably going to be like five to ten years younger than you.
She might be able to get like a trainer with like no jobs.
She's 31 years old.
Yeah, but like the 25-year-old, I mean, lately, they've been doing it.
I'm just telling you trends I've seen.
You could maybe trap them with a kid if you're lucky.
I would just work this out and I would maybe she doesn't seem like the type who cooks, but maybe like Gluck Gluck or something.
You got to make up for it.
Yeah.
Or just stop talking.
How about that?
Just shut up.
Say nothing for like two weeks.
Say nothing.
She's right.
Yeah, I know.
I know.
Nice and easy solution.
What else could she do to make up for it?
I know nothing, but like, let's say hypothetically, because right now she's going the nagging route, and that does work until the guy gets too tired.
So, what would you suggest instead of the nagging?
Well, that's what Nick just sounded like.
He just sounded like he just tired of the whole thing, just sick and tired.
You know, you can get tired, but when you get sick and tired of being tired, that's when it's over.
And I think he's almost itchy.
Yeah, I don't think he's there yet, though.
You might have a shot.
Work it out, Amarith.
Work it out.
Yeah, but I would recommend she work it out because, once again, this is your Amarith.
If you're listening to this, you're a man right now.
Your husband is the last semblance of a regular relationship dynamic.
You are done.
You're going to end up in line with Brittany Renner.
And it's unfortunate.
You might have the body count on one.
I doubt it.
But, hey, if he believes it, I guess for shits and giggles we can say that.
But you're going to have to put some numbers out to really get another relationship.
Yeah.
Yeah.
There's a CDs on the market.
I mean, there's a lot of problems out there you don't want to deal with.
I would work it out.
I'm hoping that Nick finds out, does what's best for him.
And if anything else pops off, he calls into the show.
Yeah.
All right.
Well, thanks again, Doug MPA.
Any final thoughts for today at all?
Nope, this is a long one.
You know, Andrew Wilson, he's great.
You know, I'm glad that you two went back and forth.