Dave Smith and Robbie Bernstein critique the state's expansion, debating open borders against totalitarianism while exposing the Cato Institute's alleged hypocrisy. They condemn the firing of healthcare workers for refusing vaccines as a Bolshevik-style betrayal, revealing a crony cartel prioritizing capacity over genuine emergency response. The hosts argue that Biden's 98% vaccination target requires forced injections and surveillance, creating a nightmare society worse than the virus itself, ultimately asserting that true liberty demands rolling back government power rather than complying with mandates. [Automatically generated summary]
Transcriber: nvidia/parakeet-tdt-0.6b-v2, sat-12l-sm, and large-v3-turbo
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Open Borders Debate00:11:36
Fill her up.
You are listening to the Gas Digital Network.
We need to roll back the state.
We spy on all of our own citizens.
Our prisons are flooded with nonviolent drug offenders.
If you want to know who America's next enemy is, look at who we're funding right now.
Every single one of these problems are a result of government being way too big.
Oh, yeah.
What's up, everybody?
Welcome to a brand new episode of Part of the Problem.
I am, of course, libertarian Tupac, Dave Smith.
And back with us today, we have COVID Jesus himself.
Back from the dead.
Took COVID, survived it, got AIDS, survived it, took the vaccine, died.
We buried him in the pet cemetery.
He came back.
But it's not exactly like what we put in.
But sometimes dead is better, is all I'm saying.
But here he is, Robbie the Fire Bernstein.
What's up, my brother?
And I just want to clarify that on Rebirth, I got all the mRNAs out of the system.
I didn't want them.
I held on to the AIDS.
So once again, Rob is just a man with AIDS who can't get a sandwich down the street.
That's right.
Right back to where you started.
All right.
Even with the AIDS and no sandwich resources.
But you'd be so much fatter without AIDS and the ability to eat at a restaurant.
So really, they're doing me a favor.
Perhaps.
The AIDS and the government both are doing everything they can to help you out.
There we go.
All right.
Well, that's a good start to a show.
So I wanted to start talking about a little bit of fucking, you know, I can't, it seems like I just can't help from causing a little bit of drama in the liberty world, in the libertarian.
You're putting those Twitter dukes up.
I just can't ever help it.
I don't know.
But, you know, I'm right about everything.
So it's hard not to, you know, piss people off.
We're wrong about some shit.
Which, by the way, I fucking make enemies of like all these people who was, it really wasn't ever my intention to.
But I certainly, I certainly will admit, I don't back, I don't shy away from it.
You know, like I, and I find myself in these situations quite a bit.
This fucking guy, who I think I mentioned on the show before, but the guy Alex Norwash or something like that, I might be mispronouncing his last name, but I'm not doing it intentionally.
I'm just not sure how you pronounce it.
But he's the immigration, the director of immigration studies at Cato Institute.
Fancy title.
Certainly is.
And so he was talking shit about me on Twitter a while back, saying it was after I did the interview with Reason TV.
He was saying I'm not a real libertarian.
That age-old fucking devastating criticism.
So, and it was because I said on the Reason interview that I'm not for open borders.
And he's an open borders guy.
And so I guess he had proposed, this is what people told me on Twitter.
I did not see this, but I guess he had challenged me to debate a while back, which I was unaware of.
And when he said that, that's like when he came on my radar.
I didn't really know who he was.
I think I had seen him on Tucker like years ago.
But I didn't really know anything about the dude.
And when he said that, I was like, let's debate it.
And I said, let's debate whether, like, let's debate your claim that I'm not a libertarian for not supporting open borders.
Because that actually, to be completely honest, that excited me more than the debate about open borders.
I kind of feel like my feeling going into this is that in the moment we live in right now, debating open borders versus not open borders didn't really get me out of bed in the morning.
It wasn't really like, oh, that's exciting.
When you have one of these debates, I like it to be something that gets me.
gives me a little thing of like, okay, I'm excited to argue that.
That's like an interesting thing to debate.
And that just, in the moment we're in right now, it seems like kind of like libertarians debating like anarchy versus minarchy.
You know, like, I mean, like totalitarianism has come to America.
We should probably all be focusing on that.
I mean, this is why it's funny because I've talked, I was talking to, this is like last year.
I was, or maybe more than last year, might have been like a year and a half ago.
I remember talking to Pete Konones about this on the phone, but he was saying that a whole bunch of these like libertarian podcasts were their numbers were going down.
And he was like, dude, my numbers have been going up.
And I was like, yeah, dude, I'm fucking, our show is like bigger than ever.
And a big part of it was that they weren't talking about the fucking COVID regime that much.
They would still like treat that like it was like, you know, it'd be like one episode on COVID and then like an episode on like civil asset forfeiture and like these other problems.
And you're like, dude, you can't really like, you have to kind of focus on the real crisis that's happening right now and not just on these like issues that don't really affect people in the same way and things that are these like I'm interested in abstract philosophical debates,
but it does like it feels to me right now if while the, you know, there's like lockdowns and COVID passports and all this shit and two libertarians are debating whether we should have no government or a very, very tiny government, it does seem a little bit like most normal people would look at that and be like, you guys are kind of useless.
Like while real shit is going on, you're sitting here talking about these abstractions that are very far-fetched that we'll see either of them anytime in the future.
And the idea of open borders, like just, it kind of feels like that to me.
Like, so that was kind of my take.
But I did think it was a little bit more interesting for this guy who's like got a title at the Cato Institute to say that this one position disqualifies you from being a libertarian.
And then the debate's a little bit broader.
And it's like, well, what other position do you have where you have to be 100% on your, you know, pure side in order to be considered a libertarian?
I thought that was a little bit more interesting.
Now, I was accused after saying that, that I was trying to duck him, that they were saying like, oh, you're afraid to just debate him on immigration.
So you're trying to make it about whether you're a libertarian or not and make it a personal thing or whatever.
I was like, well, my thing was like, well, he made the claim publicly that I'm not a libertarian.
So why shouldn't he debate that and step up?
Anyway, then Kennedy fucking grilled him about it, which was pretty funny.
On air?
Yeah.
On her show.
He did not see it coming.
I certainly didn't see it coming.
Oh, he was on the show?
He was on Kennedy.
And she just, she just at a certain point goes, hey, what's your problem with Dave Smith?
I see you're talking trash on Twitter to him.
What's going on?
And he was like deer in headlights.
It was pretty hilarious.
And he was like, what?
Oh, I don't know.
So he goes, he's a good guy.
I'm sure.
I just, we disagree, but libertarians disagree all the time.
And I tweeted a thing at him and I was like, oh, so I am a libertarian or something, you know, me being a smart ass.
Anyway, I don't really, we've talked a little bit of shit online.
I don't really have anything against the dude.
But so anyway, there's this company, what is it, Town Square, I think.
So this guy, Ben, who's a good dude, we interact a bunch online and we've like messaged and shit a bunch.
He works for Young Americans for Liberty.
He was out at the Mises event in Pittsburgh.
So yeah, it was Town Circle.
I'm sorry, is the name of the company.
So they do a thing where you can donate money for a debate that you want to see.
And it's, you know, you just donate the money.
And if the people agree to debate, then you have to give them the money or whatever.
You pledge the money, I suppose.
And then you have to give it if they debate.
And it goes to charity.
And this thing went to like, you know, feed hungry people.
And there was something like 10,000 meals were raised through this.
And right away, I accepted.
Without the caveat of us debating whether I'm a real libertarian, just fucking an immigration debate.
I was like, I'll fucking do it.
Like, I don't know.
If it's going to be, once they caught, I think it was right around, it was like 5,000 meals were raised.
And I tweeted, I go, if you guys make...
Can we get a few of those meals?
Just to make sure they're good meals.
I want to make sure before it goes to the poor people that they're decent.
I don't, listen, I'll give poor people food.
I'm not giving them good food.
Okay.
No, but it was like, it was at like 5,000 meals.
And I tweeted, I go, if you guys get this up to 6,000, I accept.
Which was just me accepting.
I figured I might as well, if I'm going to accept it.
Get some more meals.
And it got up to 6,000, like within an hour.
And then they told me it was up at like 10,000.
You think that it competes with the wheel people for who can provide better meals?
Well, the wheel people are going to get it there faster.
They got wheels.
You know, these guys.
Maybe they got drones.
Who knows?
Oh, these guys are pushing meals on squares.
It's a very clunky process.
But so anyway, so I fucking, I accepted like right away.
It's like, look, I wasn't like that hyped for the debate.
But if you're going to say like, look, we'll feed all these fucking hungry people to do a fucking debate.
I mean, who's not going to take an hour out of your time?
It's like, okay, to give 10,000 meals away?
Like, sure.
And also, I kind of felt like from my perspective, I was like, look, man, I don't really lose these debates.
So like, what, I don't mean to be a dick about it, but like, I don't.
I don't really lose these fucking debates.
So I'll go and fucking.
I don't know, Dave.
This guy's an expert in one topic.
He's paid by the Cato Institute.
He has all the time in the world to study one topic.
And still doesn't want to debate me on it.
And who am I?
I'm just some.
For charity meals.
That's how afraid he is.
I'm some dumbass comic who just happens to be right about everything and win all of his debates.
Anyway, maybe he hates charity meals.
And so if it was just for a different, like if it was like for dogs, then he would do it.
It's just the wrong charity.
Maybe if we give all of the meals to fucking illegal immigrants, then maybe he'll be okay with it.
I don't know.
But anyway, they just emailed me today that he didn't accept it.
And so it's not going to happen, which is fine.
Maybe he shouldn't do it.
Maybe it's like I've felt like in the past a lot of times.
And I think maybe when he called me out last time, this was the case that I think people fucking underestimate me at this shit a lot.
I know a lot of people fucking who I've gone into these debates with who are like, oh, I'll handle this guy.
And it didn't work out that way for him.
So anyway, whatever.
He didn't want to fucking do it.
So I got them pissed off of me.
I know the fucking the director of the Cato Institute guy doesn't fucking like me because I see him fucking, he was the guy who wrote that article that we tore apart.
Oh, that article sounds like that.
Yeah, the article was garbage.
I mean, it's a garbage article.
I don't know what to tell you.
Article defending vaccine mandates, full of complete bullshit, like fucking complete perversions of libertarian philosophy, along with just like bad information.
Like you remember one point in the article where he goes, he claims that it looks very much like the vaccine gives you stronger protection than natural immunity.
Novo Business Banking00:02:57
Right.
And you're like, does it look that way?
No, actually, it doesn't.
It doesn't look like that at all.
Well, if you're not reading and trying to put together propaganda.
Yeah, right.
Can look however way you want it to look.
I suppose.
But so I see him, you know, like it's petty of me to even bring this up, but I'll see people like insult me on Twitter and I see him like it.
It's like the director of the cat.
Like he doesn't say shit to me, but he'll just kind of like these fucking little twiddles.
Like a lot of shit like that.
Anyway, I tweeted this the other day and I knew I was stirring the pot a little bit when I tweeted this.
But I believe it and I think it's an important point to make.
Was it that Cato hates poor people?
Yeah.
Cato is, you know, I mean, they won't do charitable debates to get meals to people in need.
You can't let us give these fucking meals, these awful meals to these poor people.
I'm just kidding, Town Circle.
I don't know.
Maybe your meals are delicious.
I don't know.
Rob is my meals guy.
Yeah, hit me off.
I'll review the meals.
Send a meal Rob's way, and then you can debate him on how good your meals are.
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All right.
Anyway, so I fucking, let me see if I let me fucking take it.
All right, here.
I tweeted this the other day.
Again, I knew this was going to be stirring the pot a little bit.
I knew this would ruffle some feathers.
Christian Libertarianism00:15:29
But I think the people whose feathers I'm ruffling have too many feathers.
Have too many feathers.
Yeah.
I think they should be.
I think they should think about this a little bit.
So what I said was, I said social conservatism, stable families, and Christianity are all compatible with libertarianism.
Woke progressivism is not.
It has caused no end of damage to the movement that we allowed ourselves to be associated with the latter.
And I, yeah, I stand by that.
I think that's true.
And I think that there's a real problem with people, outsiders looking in about libertarianism.
And they're like, what is libertarianism?
And I think that because of a lot of say, let's say the way that libertarianism has been presented by a lot of people, and it's not, again, as I've said many times before, I like a lot of people at Reason Magazine.
I actually like, I don't really like know people like that at Cato, but there's many people at Cato who I really admire, particularly their foreign policy team, a bunch of very talented people.
And I'm a member of the Libertarian Party and I like the Libertarian Party.
However, I will say, let's say those three organizations for sure, there's been a lot of people who are responsible for this to some degree, and a lot of just other kind of people online, a lot of the way, let's say that the LP presidential candidates have run their campaigns in the past, that kind of lead a lot of people to kind of think of libertarians as being,
if not, you know, completely aligned with, at least to have the perception that they have a favorable view of woke progressives and a very hostile view.
Oh, we ain't the fairy party.
Well, yeah, that's kind of what we're here to say.
And a very hostile view toward social conservatives.
And my thing is like this, right?
All I'm saying is that you can believe in like human liberty, in private property rights, in the non-aggression principle.
And there is nothing that derives from that that insists that you have to have certain cultural preferences, one way or the other.
Like you could have all of those views and you could think that like, you know, if you believe in private property rights, self-ownership, and the non-aggression principle, you believe in limited government or perhaps even no government, you know, like anywhere on that spectrum, you could have all of that and think that, you know, whatever, think that there's two genders or you could think there's 72 genders.
Either of those falls within that spectrum.
Like there's no like, it's, it's not implied that you have to have one view rather than the other.
It's not implied that you have to, you know, have no feelings about, you know, whether your, your son is gay or not.
Like that's none of that comes from the idea of believing in human liberty.
Now, of course, you can't force it on other people.
That's kind of the idea.
Like, but you can have whatever views you want to.
And to me, it's kind of like you have this kind of this dominant ideology on the kind of woke progressive movement in this country.
And they are completely incompatible with libertarianism.
Now, that doesn't mean we stop talking to them or stop trying to persuade them, but let's get real.
We're persuading them that their ideas are wrong.
Like fundamentally.
Now, on the other hand, somebody who's personally socially conservative, who's a Christian, who's a family man, that is, all of that is completely compatible with libertarianism.
Now, if they're a statist, it's not, and you want to get rid of that, but there's no reason why libertarians should be spending time, you know, mocking people for being traditional or, you know, being a family man or woman or for, you know, being religious.
And it's also just really stupid if you want to actually have some success at building a large movement.
And that's the other thing that other people don't seem to really think through.
Like, I don't know.
I certainly, I'm not saying, by the way, I didn't say in the tweet, and I would never say that, like, being, I'm not saying like being socially tolerant is bad.
That's very like, that's perfectly aligned with libertarianism.
I think you can have a non-traditional lifestyle.
I mean, I don't know, you have a non-traditional lifestyle.
I suppose at this point, you say maybe I have a little bit more of a traditional lifestyle now because I got a wife and kids and stuff, but I had a very non-traditional lifestyle for years and years, and I was a libertarian for many of those years.
So it's not anything like that.
I'm just saying that you can also have the fucking traditional lifestyle.
And anyway, but woke progressivism is its own separate thing, and that is different.
Like if you believe, if you believe, let's say, let me just throw that shit on.
If you believe in equity, that is in direct conflict with liberty.
So why the hell should we, if that's the case, right?
Then why would you want to have a liberty movement that is hostile toward traditional lifestyles and religion and trying to suck up to a movement that is completely in conflict with us when the other one is not at all?
So there was a Christian, what was the other group?
It was the woke.
Woke progressives is what I said in general, but just generally referring to whatever you would take that to mean.
I mean, I would say progressives are, you know, the self-described progressives basically are always arguing for an ever-increasing governmental role in the economy, always arguing for increasing the size and scope of government.
And the woke shit is just, I don't know, like pop critical race theory, whatever.
The idea that like everything, that disparate outcomes are proof of racism, that everything that is baked into the cake of all traditions is patriarchy and racism and xenophobia and all of these things.
I think all of those views are like in direct conflict with libertarianism.
Whereas being a fucking Christian is not.
Being a Jew is not.
Now, by the way, I'll also say being an atheist is not.
Some of the greatest Jewish leaders are atheists.
However, you might notice one thing in common with the exception of Ayn Rand, but of all the, you know, the leaders, I guess Mises maybe would be a little bit of an exception towards of this too.
But like if you look at like Rothbard, Hoppe, you know, those guys were atheists.
I think Walter Block is too.
But they're kind of atheists like the way you are, Rob, which I don't even know if atheist is the way to describe you, but you're not hostile toward religion.
You're not like belittling it and being shitty toward it.
I'm also not, you know, I don't think you should be hostile toward atheists.
That's fine.
You know, you can, like, I get the atheist argument.
I do.
I was an atheist for years.
I completely get their argument.
It's a very, like, it's a very firmly rooted and logic argument that I'm not going to assume something that can't be proved and I can't be called on to prove a negative.
I think the one part of it that I kind of just formulated it is that Christianity, if your first belief is in Christianity and not in freedom, so you might come to the conclusion that, hey, if we're in control of everything, we got to dictate policies that make this a more favorable environment for Christianity, in which case that would be in conflict with libertarianism.
In a similar way, I mean, you'd have to, you'd have to have a strict definition of progressivism and wokeism, which are two things that I hate that rely on that it's a specific, because with the Christianity, yes, you can have the distinction where Christianity does not have to be in conflict with liberty in any capacity if you're okay with, hey, I just want to be able to be a Christian, but I don't want to enforce this.
So, so you're right about that.
And I should be clear on this, right?
And this is also, look, this is the...
Well, that's the difference of a tweet and how.
And the idea of a tweet is to kind of like, you know, like get a quick version of what you want to say out there, spark something or like whatever.
Like, that's what you do with a tweet, whereas this is more of a full, you know, you know, flushed out conversation.
But so you're right that there's certainly no question that a Christian could be a statist.
Like a Christian could be, and many have been, right?
Like they, you could be a Christian who justifies government authoritarianism for whatever reason, perhaps on Christian grounds, right?
But you could also be a Christian libertarian.
Like you could be a Christian family man, very personally, socially conservative person, right?
Like the type of person who would have a big family, have your wife be like a house mom.
And what's the term I'm looking for?
House mom?
Housewife.
House mom.
Why did that sound so weird when I said it?
Housewife?
Although both of those terms are equally accurate, really.
But you could write, have like a big family, raise them all very Christian, be completely traditional in all of your kind of like culture, in all of your customs.
You could have all types of like these views like, you know, you teach your kids to wait till marriage to have sex.
You could do all of that and be a libertarian.
You can do that.
And in fact, if you look at some of the absolute best libertarians we've got, it's not very hard to find examples of people who are like that, who are very Christian, very traditionalist, very personally conservative, and are great libertarians.
Like Ron Paul comes to mind, like Tom Woods comes to mind, like lots of people.
And honestly, I think almost, I'd say, I mean, maybe I'm trying to think this true, but I think probably the majority of libertarian leaders fall into that category.
And, you know, and that's fine.
And even like, I think like, I mean, I don't know his detail, like his family life situation at all, but I think Justin Amash is a fairly like personally conservative guy.
He doesn't seem like, that's just how he seems to me.
I don't know.
I might be wrong about that.
So you can find examples of that.
You can find examples of traditional, Christian, socially, personally conservative, great libertarians.
Now, find me an example of a woke progressive libertarian.
Doesn't exist.
It just doesn't exist.
That's not, it's like, it's just a different thing.
So I'm just saying, if we're going to like, I'm just saying keep that in mind when you think about these things.
If you're mocking one group that is completely like, you know, it is very possible for them to be libertarians.
And there's another group where like they would literally have to shed their ideology in order to be a libertarian.
And that's great.
Try to get them to shed it.
I've actually been, the funny thing is that I'm better at doing that than all these fucking people who criticize me.
I always, it's so funny.
Like there, there's all the, there'll be like these guys who criticize me from the Cato people and then, you know, like Loser Brigade, but like all these types who like come at me and they'll be like, oh, Dave just wants to make the Libertarian Party a right-wing party and we don't want to make it a right-wing party.
And then it'll be like nothing but like, like my tweets will just be all these responsive people like, I was a left-wing guy until I listened to Dave's podcast.
I was a Bernie bro until I started listening to Dave's podcast.
Then I started reading Rothbard because he told me about that.
Now I'm a full libertarian.
And you're like, well, if that's what you mean by making it a right-wing party, getting left-wingers to read Murray Rothbard and fucking right-wingers too, for that matter, then okay, let's make it that.
Why would we not want it to be that?
Is there any version of progressive and or woke that could fit in?
Like, is there, I don't know, is there some like, hey, like voluntarily within my business, we're not going to use the following terms because we're all quiffs here.
So, you know, we want to be respectful and forge an environment.
Could you, yes, theoretically, can you, can there be a person who starts his daily company meetings with, I want to go paging everyone's people's butt holes and making everyone feel welcome at this company.
Yes.
Okay.
So would you.
I like how I was trying to take their side at the beginning.
That's what I just couldn't.
Fell apart.
Fell apart.
Look, is there somebody out there who could have like their pronouns, you know, in their bio and be a libertarian?
Sure.
Are there people who could be against racism and bigotry and all of that and be a libertarian?
Sure.
I mean, by the way, we're all kind of that.
We're just not insane about it.
But I will say this.
The woke part, right, alone, almost always, I'd say 99.9% of the time means you're going to be a bad libertarian.
Like you're going to be a libertarian, but you're just, you're going to get caught up in nonsense constantly and never fucking really be good on the important issues.
Vast majority of the time.
Not true for all of them.
There might be a few exceptions out there.
And those people are not progressives.
If you are a progressive and you're a woke progressive, you just by definitionally, you're not a libertarian, which like is fine.
That is fine.
But I'd also say like, look, if you're a social conservative who's a theocrat, then you're by definition not a libertarian.
Now, I understand some people were criticizing me where they were saying, well, you're not making an apples to apples comparison because I'm talking about people who are personally socially conservative, whereas progressivism is a political ideology, right?
So it's not, and I get that.
My whole point is I'm not making an apples to apples comparison.
I'm talking about two distinct separate groups of people that are large constituencies in this country and how we should think about all of them.
Social Views History00:06:39
There's this weird thing.
So just to add, so in other words, progressive, American progressivism has always pushed for socialist policy which comes to the governments.
There's no version of progressives basically trying to push some version of equality that's not through government mandate.
Well, here's increasing socialism, which is the opposite of it.
So this is what I tweeted out a secondary tweet, and this was really kind of the point.
And I knew I was going to be stirring the pot a little bit with that first tweet, but the second tweet that I mentioned here, let me read it.
So I just, I'll tell you exactly what I said.
But this was kind of the point that I was making, which is what I was trying to get at because I knew there would be a certain reaction.
And I'm not trolling.
I mean, I fucking believe everything I'm saying, but I knew that there would be a reaction.
And so this was my follow-up tweet to that.
And I thought that maybe this would kind of make my point for me.
So I said, I said, progressivism, and when I say this, I'm referring to the original progressive era.
And, you know, progressivism today is following in their footsteps.
I said, progressivism gave us public schools, the Fed, the income tax, two world wars, the FBI, the CIA, and the welfare state.
Pop critical race theory claims that the free market, that free markets are inherently white supremacy.
Yet when I attack woke progressivism, some libertarians get upset.
That tells you something.
And so that is, I think there's a fair point there.
I mean, if these two ideologies are so like not like, oh, I think they might be a little bit against us.
Like they will tell you we are for everything that you are against.
And by the way, here's their track record of creating everything that is the mess of the fucking 20th century and now bleeding over into the 21st century.
If that's the case, then why on earth in liberty circles would anyone get their fucking panties in a bunch about taking shots at them?
And yet, if I were to just take shots at Christians, so many of those same people would be fine with it.
So I'm just, my whole thing is always like, and I've been on this thing for years now, man.
Like, dude, it's been fucking, I think at least back since 2012, 2013, that I've been saying it was like, first I became, like, I became a libertarian like around, I was introduced in 2007, really 2008, 2009 is when I like felt con, like all that time I was kind of reading up on it.
And then I was just at a certain point, like, yeah, I'm convinced this is fucking correct.
But it was around 2012, I think 2013, that I really started thinking, you're like, okay, well, if this is true and the whole, this whole like statist order is all bullshit.
And also they run the schools and the fucking media and the fucking just Hollywood and like everything is so, if they don't directly run it, then they're at least like all, you know, intertwined with it and shit.
And you're like, so what the fuck else have, what else are they telling me that's fucking not right?
You know, like how propagandized have I been in other areas and in all of this shit?
And like to see something like that, I go, man, if like taking shots at progressives upsets libertarians, that's maybe that has something to do with why this movement hasn't achieved more than it has.
Like why the hell on earth would that be an issue?
So anyway, that's just that, that's it.
And the woke shit is just like, you know, it's funny because someone else, one of the other guys who I fucking debated once and smoked, was fucking tweeting, talking shit about me today.
And he said, he said, if Mises were alive today, that Dave would denounce him as woke, which is really just like, it's like where these guys are at and how much they just fucking miss the mark and just don't, they don't, first, I think it's just very dishonest.
I don't think they even actually believe this, but the idea of like, he says Mises is woke.
And what he used to back that up was that he said Mises was a liberal and an anti-racist, he claimed.
And it's like, well, yeah, I guess by the standards of 1921, yeah, like, yes.
And so am I.
And so are you.
He was just in line with freedom.
So in that time period, that made him those things.
Exactly.
We live in Looney World.
Yes, like the terms had different meanings back then.
And like, yes, all of us would fucking agree with that.
Yes, all of us would be considered fucking like liberal anti-racists in 1921.
But the thing is that in fucking 2021, that just has a different fucking, it just hits a little bit different.
It's not the exact same thing.
And so, yeah, actually, the reality is that if Ludwig von Mises was alive today with the exact same social views, these guys would consider him a fucking reactionary right-wing like Nazi.
Even though, of course, he was a Jew who fled from the Nazis, that wouldn't stop him.
They'd still be like, you were a Jew, you were a Nazi running away from other Nazis.
If they knew his fucking social views, to just be like, they're like, well, he referred to himself as a cosmopolitan or something like that.
Like, yeah, okay.
I mean, he also said public housing was like causing more homosexuality.
It's like, I don't know if you really want to go through all of his social views.
They hit like something written in the 20s, you know, the 1920s.
Like, you know, that's what it is.
This is real life.
So to pretend that like, you know, and this is the crazy thing that like kind of woke ideology does is that they pretend almost like that, this thing that just started last year like you're on the wrong side of history, always if you're against that.
So again, it's not about, it's not saying that like tolerance is bad or that being against racism is bad.
I'm for tolerance and against racism, but i'm telling you, the fucking woke progressives are the least tolerant, most racist motherfuckers out there.
So i'm still in in the miscession camp.
I'm still that guy like I, I don't know.
Um anyway, just thought i'd open on that, clarify some of that shit a little more.
Sheath Underwear Sponsor00:02:34
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First gig we got on the books is october 7th.
We're going to be back at Old Man Hustle.
We played that venue twice, three times actually.
We had great shows over there.
We're going to be doing a live part of the problem podcast and we're going to do some stand-up on on the show as well.
A little stand-up and fans of the show are gonna enjoy the venue.
I'm not gonna broadcast why, but for obvious reasons, if you follow the show, i'm not, we can't.
We can't say anything out loud.
But if you're like oh, I thought you'd never play a venue, that was part of this blah blah blah, i'm just saying they're cool, so cool venue, so show up.
Uh, that is gonna be october super cool, I mean, there's air conditioning cool.
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We really got to come up with codes uh stand-up show followed by a live part of the problem.
And then I personally am going to be doing the Take Human Action event, which is this weekend, october 7th, in Fair Vaccs uh, Virginia.
And then uh, next week, i'm down uh, near Austin with Kyle Ruff doing a gig on the 9th.
Uh, those links are in the episode description.
Come out for it.
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So, one thing that I wanted to talk about, which had really caught my eye, I'm sure you had read about this as well.
Healthcare System Power00:12:21
And I'm sure a lot of people who listen to the show have, is this really unbelievable move of firing healthcare workers over not getting vaccinated.
Well, it's funny and it's a little bit like I don't even know how to describe it, but it's one of those things that, yeah, it's funny because it's so absurd.
Can we start with the funny part?
We sure can.
Go ahead.
Yeah, I mean, you spend a year and a half talking about how we have to save lives and how the healthcare system is being overrun and every life matters.
And then you are willingly creating a situation where you won't have enough healthcare providers.
You guys are the ones preaching about things getting overrun and the importance of good health care.
And now you are creating an environment where you're openly saying, hey, we're going to have shortages.
So, I mean, maybe I didn't just say it in the funniest terms, but that's fucking hilarious.
Oh, yeah, no, it's really funny.
And it's really, it's like it's hard to not be taken back.
We don't have enough health care.
People are going to die.
And we're getting rid of healthcare workers because it's an emergency.
You know what I was?
What I was thinking of, right, is, you know, Jeff Dice said something to me on when I was guest hosting the Tom Woods show recently, like maybe a month and a half ago or so.
And I had him on and I was interviewing him.
And he said something, God damn, Jeff Dice is such a fucking brilliant guy.
Like every Jeff Dice, he's the president of the Mises Institute.
He, every speech he gives, every podcast he's on, everything he writes, it's always, I'm just like totally captivated by what he has to say.
It's never just like the kind of boilerplate, like repeating talking points.
It's never, even though you know kind of where he ideologically comes from, he's always got something really thoughtful and kind of a unique perspective on everything.
Anyway, so he said at one point that I, and this really stuck with me, where he was like, you know, when you're living through a revolution, you don't exactly know that you're living through a revolution.
He goes, you know, it's not like somebody goes, comes up to you and goes, hey, just so you know, the revolution started today and it'll be over in three months.
And then we'll look back at this and be like, this is a revolution.
It kind of happens.
And then afterward, you're like, oh, you know, looking back at that now, that was a revolution.
And then, and he didn't say this, but just adding that, I think you could argue that there's been some revolutions where the people living through it never even really recognized it as a revolution.
It just kind of happened.
I mean, like, let's say like the Constitution.
I mean, like, we had the Articles of Confederation.
They were kind of overthrown in a coup and then the Constitution was installed.
But when we talk about the revolution, we really just talk about the Revolutionary War and overthrowing the British control.
You know, so anyway, but you know, he kind of said that, and then you're like, oh, wow.
So what have the last 18 months been?
I mean, I'm not saying it's a revolution, but I don't know.
It feels something huge has changed.
We are certainly in a, you know, it might still be called the United States of America and a lot of the same people might be in power, but man, something here has happened.
And it just makes you kind of think of things in a different way.
And it's a revolution and taking away freedom.
Well, right.
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, not a technical revolution per se, but I'm just saying that when you start to think about like, what are we really in the middle of and thinking about what a revolution is or maybe a revolution even coming, you know, kind of in the near future.
Maybe around 2024, motherfuckers.
Anyway, what I was thinking about as I was reading this stuff about all of these healthcare workers being fired was how after the Bolshevik revolution, some of the first people who got executed by the commies were the most loyal communists.
Like these were the people who got put up against the wall first.
And, you know, part of you would almost think you'd be like, whoa, well, why not, you know, just kill all your enemies first before you start turning on your own.
And don't get me wrong, I mean, they did kill some of their enemies too, but they started killing a whole bunch of people from within the revolution.
The ones, the same ones that they were championing just a few, you know, months earlier were now dangerous threats.
And a big part of that is because, well, look, it's easy to rail against the power structure when you're trying to take them out and gain power, right?
And you could point out all the ways that they're corrupt and exploitive and all this shit, right?
And then you take them out and you become the power and you're exploiting people.
You got to get rid of the people.
And now you look at that other guy.
You look at that other guy who's fucking, you know, is willing to fight and die to overthrow someone powerful who's exploiting people.
And some of those people were true believing communists, you know?
We're like, wait a minute, this was the revolution of the proletariat.
What do you mean you're fucking taking power and living in a palace and all this shit?
And so a lot of those people were the ones who had to die.
They had to go right away.
And I just, that's what comes to mind because it's not just like you were saying, Rob, like, by the way, excellent point that you're making.
And it is very funny.
Just the idea that we're like, oh my God, the healthcare system's being overrun.
But what I was thinking about more is just, hey, do you remember March 2020?
Because it wasn't that long ago.
Who were the heroes?
Yeah, we'd watch these people.
Who were just dance on tier?
You literally, we'd watch nurses dancing on TikToks and everyone was instructed to pretend that you were watching, you know, people fucking planting that American flag on a picture.
You had to go out and bang pan like it made a difference.
Yeah, literally.
There were in this city the weirdest fucking thing, which I remember, and I wasn't really, you know, here that much through it, but when I was, because, you know, I still, you know, my mother lives here when I got family.
I'd be in the city and stuff.
And that thing at like five o'clock or whatever where everyone starts clapping out their windows.
Now, I know maybe this is just my contrarian asshole personality, but while everyone else is like getting emotional and teary-eyed, I'm like, yeah, give it up for the healthcare workers.
I'm like, this feels like a cult to me.
Why are we all doing, you know, but anyway, regardless of that, these people were like, they are the greatest Americans out there.
They're basically what the soldiers are during wartime, according to the regime, you know, the most noble people.
And now, you know, not that long, you know, not even two years later, it's like, oh, no, fuck you.
You're fired.
We're ruining your livelihood because you wouldn't take the fucking vaccine.
And that is, there's something about that that I just, I see a parallel, you know, a logical analogy, maybe, to the fucking shit that I was talking about with the revolutionaries being killed by the successful revolution.
Like you, okay, you served the revolution well when we could make you the heroes and the frontline workers and, well, we got to do everything we can to protect these people, right?
I mean, they're risking their lives to save other lives, right?
But now all of a sudden, this, this just doesn't really look so good when we've got large amounts of healthcare professionals who don't want to take the vaccine.
There's something about that that's a little bit more powerful than just say like truckers or postal, you know, post office workers or NBA basketball players or something like that.
There's something a little bit more powerful about healthcare professionals saying, no, I don't want to take the fucking vaccine.
Well, because, yeah, I mean, anyone, you're talking about a group of people that are highly aware of the risks and at least have some sort of an education about health and medicine.
So, you know, if they're saying, I'm not interested.
Well, not, and not only that, right?
So it's that for sure.
And then on top of that, you'd have to think, you know, in general, this isn't true for every single healthcare worker, but in general, you'd think are at more of a risk.
Like at more of a risk.
Well, in this case, I would say actually less of a risk because like, what are the chances they weren't exposed?
Well, okay, right.
So that's fair enough, but I'm saying almost like according to the regime logic, you're going to be around other people who might in a hospital environment around other sick people.
But yeah, I think you're absolutely right, actually.
You're right when you say that.
Look, these people have been through the COVID pandemic, whatever it is since March of 2020.
And they were at least while we were home.
So even if it's like the hospital is a safe setting, they were still more out and about, more getting to work.
You have to think at this point that there's probably a lot of them who are like, look, at this point, I fall into either category A or category B. Category A being, I already got this shit.
Category B being, I've figured out how to protect myself from this shit.
Right?
Like, if you've had it already, then you fall into the natural immunity category and that might be why they don't want to get it.
And if you're, if you haven't had it already, then you're like, I've figured out kind of how to really minimize my risk of getting this.
That seems to be the case.
However, to your point, which is what you started with, which is not just funny, but also very revealing and interesting.
And we're far from the first ones to make this.
A lot of people have been making this point, but it's worth repeating.
That, man, it's just like one more thing.
There's like been so many things that almost gets you like exhausted.
So many of these, like I've never seen a narrative, like a propaganda narrative that contradicts itself more than the COVID regime.
Like it's just, I mean, like, okay, our hospitals are overrun and we're so concerned about the strain on the healthcare system.
Also, we're going to lay off a whole bunch of fucking healthcare workers.
How can both of those things be true?
Like, how do you expect me to believe that you really believe the first and are still going to do the second?
I am sorry, but if you have a pandemic that is so bad that we must alter society forever, I'm talking lockdowns, fucking checking vaccine status before you go into a fucking restaurant.
All of this shit.
If that's all happening and necessary, you're not in the business of laying off healthcare workers.
You're just not.
That's not the time that you're turning people away.
Yeah, because it's an emergency.
You need to go to the bottom.
It's an emergency.
Yeah, come on.
That's where all of a sudden you're going to war and one guy's got like two stubs, but he wants to fight.
You're like, we'll figure it out.
You're coming with me.
Yeah, right.
Exactly.
We absolutely need people right now.
Do whatever.
Stub arms.
We'll figure out how to pull a trigger.
Oh, my God.
This fire is going to kill everybody.
And you go, I got a hose.
You go, I don't like that model, actually.
I was waiting for a different hose.
Oh, is that green?
Just your standard green hose?
Yeah, I don't think so.
It also puts us in a weird spot where you kind of have to root for enough death now that they go, ah, shit, we really need those employees.
Well, I don't know because they'll just blame it on the fucking unbalanced.
They're so mean that they're not.
I don't want to root through death.
But it's, it's, yeah, it's, it's, um, but it's really something.
And, and it's going to be interesting to see what type of, you know, what type of effects this has because the truth is that our healthcare system is by design always, and this is way before COVID.
This is just the way that our kind of, you know, like it's the whole thing is a fucking crony cartel system, and it's designed to always be pretty close to maximum capacity.
You know, like that's kind of how it's designed to work.
Grove Collaborative Products00:02:37
And now, you know, look, you're firing like nurses and shit.
And that's not, you know, that's not a job that it's like, oh, you come in here, there's a two-week training period, and then you fucking get to work.
Like, there's nurses are very skilled.
I mean, I know some nurses.
My mother-in-law is a nurse, and like I know a few of them.
They're a you have to know a lot to be a fucking nurse.
And this is a very important job.
I mean, don't get me wrong, doctors have like more education and more specialized knowledge.
But if you've ever like been to a hospital, nurses run that shit.
Nurses are the ones who like make everything fucking happen.
Like it's just, it's always the fucking case.
The nurses do everything.
They know everything about the fucking patients.
They're the ones who are actually there like day to day, hour to hour, like know what's going on.
The doctor pops in.
The nurse gives them all the fucking information about what's going on.
And then the fucking doctor has like their expertise to say whatever we need to do next or make recommendations.
But like nurses are very fucking important.
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Biden Vaccine Refusal00:14:24
And there's been a lot of them, a whole bunch of nurses who have just been let go.
Now, here in New York and in other parts of the country as well, they're now saying that they're going, they're bringing in, actually, I believe today in New York, where it was supposed to happen, because it was supposed to be at midnight yesterday that they all got fired, that they're bringing in medically trained National Guard to take those jobs.
So there you go.
Sounds like a great plan.
Couldn't possibly go wrong.
Weird fucking times, man.
Weird times.
I don't know that that lasts indefinitely.
It's like we're kind of at the bluff, the bluff stage here.
Yeah, it does feel that way.
But it's just another one of those things where you're like, could you imagine that?
Could you imagine that in like March or April of 2020?
We'd be firing nurses.
Like imagine being that nurse, you know, who was like being fucking praised as a hero that whole time and now is like, you know, oh yeah, that's a now you're fired for not taking the fucking vaccine.
And I'll tell you, at least I think, and this is maybe a little bit of a white pill, a little bit of a case for optimism, that I think a lot of people, that's really bothering them.
I know a lot of people who are really upset about that shit.
And because understandably, and not just because they fucking, you know, like fell for the fucking, you know, all like the propaganda, although I'm sure some of them did fall for some of it, but I think that there's a lot of people who really did buy into the like, hey, these healthcare workers are heroes.
Now, what we really need, but it's not going to happen, is the way that the news can go on and on with sad stories, like the way that CNN will do a special after a school shooting.
And like they try and make, you know, they try and pull every emotional cord that they possibly can.
How many news stories can be done tomorrow of some nurse who not only did patients love her, but is caring for a family, caring for a mom, doesn't have money for rent?
I mean, how many stories exist right now of people that don't know what the next month of their life looks like?
And if that was the coverage, if over the next month, like if this was Donald Trump who just made that order and everyone wants to go, how come this evil person doesn't care about these frontline workers?
If there was the political will to just smash somebody and make them look bad, this would be done in two weeks.
You know, this is one of Michael Malice's central points that I don't know if I completely agree with him, but he really does have a strong point where he has more contempt for the corporate press than he does for politicians.
And I don't know, like, I don't know.
I'm a little bit split on that one.
But there certainly is an argument to be made that if the corporate press, because like the point you just made made me think of this, if the corporate press were the good guys, we would shut this whole thing down in a fucking day.
Like, just think about it like this.
If the corporate press reported on the fucking babies that are murdered in our wars, the way they reported on Joe Biden's disaster pulling out of the war, if they did that, we'd shut, like, they could easily generate outrage.
They're very good at generating outrage.
And if they had ever pushed that into the right areas, we could, so many of these policies could just be walked back because they like, it's like just universally like fucking loathed.
But yeah, yeah, I really do think if something like that happened, they could put enough pressure on him to back it up.
I mean, look, do you remember the whole separating families thing at the border?
They got Trump to back off of that like pretty quick.
Because Americans can only see fucking little kids in cages for so long before they're like, whoa, what the fuck?
Like, even border hawks are like, look at that and go, like, whoa, no, I don't know.
Like, whatever we got to do to not make that happen.
Okay, whatever.
Whether we're letting them into the country or not letting them in, like, there's a four-year-old, that's his mom.
They stay together.
We're not separating them.
Like, we're just like any fucking any person with a shred of humanity would fucking agree with.
So, like, you can, there's a lot of this shit that you could do, but they won't because they're in service of the regime.
And so, I, I get where Malice certainly has a very strong point that even if you don't go all the way and say you have more contempt for them, that they should be right there in the fucking, in the conversation.
But you're right.
The other thing that really like kind of stuck out to me about it was that you just, and I know there's been a lot of examples like with things like this.
And I suppose people like me and you are very lucky.
I look, I remember this being one of the things that I thought about right away at the beginning of the pandemic.
And don't get me wrong, I lost a lot of money due to the COVID regime.
I mean, I lost a lot of like, there were a nice amount of money that I would have much rather had than not had if there hadn't been lockdowns and restrictions and all of this shit.
You know, a couple corporate gigs, skank fests, festivals, whole lot of road work, whole lot of stuff that I was like, would have been nice.
Would have been nice to have.
But I am in a situation where it wasn't a major problem.
Like, or I say it wasn't a devastating problem for me during the lockdowns and all of that other shit.
Like, it was like, okay, well, I can still make my fucking podcast.
I can still put that out.
I can still support my family and all this shit.
Me and you are both kind of lucky in the sense that we can still, we both have careers that we can navigate around this shit.
It's not, now, it's not, it's not that there's no sacrifices and like, you know, whatever, like you, you can't fucking go to certain places now and I can't go to certain places now.
But I remember thinking right away in March of 2020, like you go like, fuck, man, like, what if you got like three kids and you, you're a cook at a restaurant?
You know, what if you got three kids and like you and your wife just opened a store, you know, and like, that's your, that's it.
And now you're literally kids to the Bidens.
Yeah, well, you got to sell what you got to pick your least favorite kid real quick and or just lease him for sniffing, you know?
Um, but you know what I'm saying?
Like there's like all these people who have this real, and so I guess I've, I've not exactly been in this situation, but to see people like this go, no, like I'm not getting this fucking vaccine.
And like I don't, I don't believe in it for whatever their reason is.
It might be like a purely fucking scientific reason.
It might be a fucking, you know, a dumb reason.
It might be like some irrational fear of the vaccine that doesn't isn't actually warranted.
I don't even know.
I'm just saying to have the fucking like conviction to go, no, I will lose my job over this shit is something to say.
And there's been a lot of that.
I mean, there's also been a lot of compliance for those reasons.
And I understand that.
I'm not like, I'm not going to judge anyone who like, You know, maybe you got a fucking family to support and your job's making you get the vaccine.
And maybe you're like, look, I just can't fucking, I can't just lose my job right now.
Like, it's, it's more important to me to fucking make sure my fucking kids are taken care of than to fucking, you know, not take the vaccine.
I, I understand that.
I'm not going to judge that person, but there is something pretty incredible about the people who are willing to just be like, no, I, like, I won't bend the knee.
Even if they were completely wrong, let's say the vaccine was 100% protection and 0% risk.
Maybe it's just my personality or whatever, or my philosophy or my ideology or whatever.
But I admire the person saying, like, I will not bend the knee.
Like, I will not be forced into doing something I don't want to do.
You know what we need?
I just realized this.
The current numbers is 90 million people.
Or at least last I saw it was 90 million people unvaxed, which is like in some of these industries, it's like 20% of the workforce.
So if everyone, if all those people hold out within a month, that's not going to work, right?
But here's what we really need actually: is that everyone who vaxed, who now is looking at this and going, like, what the hell is going on here?
We need those people to not be willing to show their cards.
That's the game changer.
That's what destroys all the numbers is actually, if everyone who is vaxed, who starts looking at this situation and realizing, like where the hell is this thing going?
Like I don't, I don't think you should be forcing people out of their jobs we actually we need to educate people about that is, if you are vaxed and you're now realizing people should not be fired over this, refuse to give your office your vax card.
That's how we ruin the system.
Like still have this like, like thing.
Like no you yeah, like you're gonna fire these people because they didn't get vax.
That's not their choice.
I'm not showing you my card, i'm standing with them.
Make them figure out who does and doesn't have a vaccine card.
Put, put it on them to figure it out.
We need everyone to just be like i'm not, this is a corrupt system and i'm not complying with it.
Look I, I love that, love that, and I 100 agree with you.
And I also think part of that, part of getting to that, is convincing those people, even the ones who are vaccinated, how ugly a path we're going down and we need and why they need to fight against this.
Look dude, has the organized commitment to know like, i'm not going to be the one person to lose my job.
50 of the workforce is saying no to, yeah to the force thing, that then it just goes away.
There's strength in numbers.
And well look, i'll say it like this right Biden said the other day, and sure, Biden's a senile old man and he says stuff, but he's also, i've been told, the president of the United States Of America.
I'm not completely sure, but that seems to be what is being printed in the newspapers that Joe Biden is the president of the United States Of America.
I even, as I hear the words come out of my mouth, it sounds ridiculous, but he said the other day that we need uh.
In his estimation did you hear this?
Uh 97 to 98 percent of the population vaccinated before this thing is is over.
Okay, so Now, of course, also, by the way, Biden just took his third shot with a big mask on.
Doesn't that, that really, nothing says you really want to get your third shot other than seeing a couple of masked people getting their third shot?
Anyway, Joe Biden said we need 97 to 98% of the population vaccinated before this is over.
Well, I just want to say, I want people to think about this.
What level of totalitarianism do you think is required to get 97 to 98% of people vaccinated and then vaccinated again and again and again?
And I guess every six months that you're going to need to do this.
I mean, what there is, even with fucking companies forcing it, the federal government forcing it, the state governments, the city governments with the vaccine passports, with everything, there is no chance of you getting to 97 to 98%.
What you would need to do to get 97 to 98% of people vaccinated, I'm not exaggerating when I say this.
You would need to have a complete database with everybody who's vaccinated.
You would need to locate and track the people who are not vaccinated, bust down their doors, hold them down against their wills, and shoot them with this shit.
That's what you would need.
And let me just say this.
If you get to the point where we're doing that, COVID is no longer your biggest problem.
Now your problem is that we actually live in a fucking nightmare society.
And you would take something five times worse than COVID over living under that tyrannical of a government.
So that's what people got to realize is that the president of the United States laid out his benchmark and his benchmark will not be achieved unless we go in a brutal direction from even where we are now.
Sorry, go ahead.
Say what you want to say and we'll wrap up.
Oh, I was just going to say it'd be great if that third booster shot gave him Alzheimer's and then the White House had to be like, well, he always had it.
That's not the vaccine.
Vaccines are great.
That would be great.
Joe Biden.
I had dementia the whole time.
But I got to say, even me and you would be like, that's plausible.
That is totally plausible that that was him the whole time.
You're like, go like, well, Joe Biden took the vaccine and look, he can't even finish a sentence.
They go, it was always a problem here.
Yeah.
And touchey.
Or if he got real sick and they're like, well, he didn't get that booster soon enough.
We could have saved him if he just got the booster a little bit earlier.
I will also say I find something, I know I've said this before, but I'll say this and we could wrap up.
I just find it so weird, the fucking televised getting your shot.
It's a weird thing.
It's just, doesn't that just feel like something a creepy society does?
Like, I will now get my shot in front of all of you.
Like, this is like a doctor's appointment.
Do it in private.
Like, and Joe Biden's like, here now I'm going to pee in a cup for everyone to see.