Michael Heise and James Smith analyze the Libertarian Party's resurgence via the Mises Caucus, which grew from 3,500 to 14,000 members by rejecting "woke" identity politics in favor of anti-war and anti-Fed policies. They characterize the current climate as economically rooted fascism, citing private corporate surveillance under Biden, while detailing a conflict with Pennsylvania leadership that prompted an independent "Take Human Action Bash" in Pittsburgh on May 14th–15th to advance true liberty over internal factionalism. Ultimately, the discussion frames the caucus's growth as a necessary correction against dishonesty and systemic oppression within the broader party structure. [Automatically generated summary]
Transcriber: nvidia/parakeet-tdt-0.6b-v2, sat-12l-sm, and large-v3-turbo
|
Time
Text
Mises Caucus Ideological Shift00:09:10
Fill her up.
You're listening to the Gash Digital Network.
We need to roll back the state.
We spy on all of our own citizens.
Our prisons are flooded with nonviolent drug offenders.
If you want to know who America's next enemy is, look at who we're funding right now.
Every single one of these problems are a result of government being way too big.
You're listening to part of the problem on the Gash Digital Network.
Here's your host, James Smith.
What's up, everybody?
Welcome to a brand new episode of Part of the Problem.
I am very happy to have returning to the show the great Michael Heiss, the most important libertarian activist and organizer on the planet right now.
And it's great to have you, as well as the person who convinced me to join the Libertarian Party, which alone earns you the title that I gave you earlier.
How are you, brother?
I'm doing great, man.
We are Ron Paul revolutionizing the Libertarian Party.
It is well underway.
Everybody knows it.
Everybody sees it coming now.
And there's a lot of excitement.
There's a lot of concern, but I think it's mostly from good places.
But yeah, we're getting results and marching right through.
Yeah, it's pretty incredible, man.
It's pretty incredible.
The Mises caucus has only existed for a few short years.
And this is kind of what you said you were here to do.
I think it's, you know, there were people, you know, maybe three years ago who were laughing at you, who now they're not laughing anymore.
And I think people can really feel the energy and now they can actually see a lot of the results of what's been happening.
So it must be exciting.
I know I'm excited.
It must be exciting for you too.
Oh, yeah.
It's beyond what my dreams were when this whole thing started.
I mean, there's that saying, it's like, first they ignore you, then they laugh at you, and then they fight you, and then you win.
I might have that out of order, but we're definitely in the fighting.
We're definitely in the they're fighting us stage, which is good because they did try to ignore us and laugh at us at first.
But, you know, we've been winning at states, several states.
I mean, we had already taken several states last year, but now we've taken some what I would call highly symbolic states like Nevada, like New Hampshire.
And that has really, really gotten their attention.
And they are afraid now.
And they, meaning the establishment, not the party at large.
But the establishment of the party, the people that we are trying to replace in leadership positions, they are absolutely terrified now and encircling the wagons.
Yeah, well, I've noticed a lot of that as well.
So for people who don't know, maybe let's go through a little bit of this.
So the two big ones that you just mentioned were New Hampshire, where the Mises caucus basically took over the Libertarian Party out there.
And then just recently in Nevada, which was in many ways the sweetest one because, man, if people don't know, the Nevada Libertarian Party was really wacky.
Just like really run by, again, it's not even that they're leftists.
I wouldn't even care like if they were left libertarians.
It's that they were like deranged, woke, hate Ron Paul, consider the Mises caucus Nazis, you know, crazies.
Yeah, I mean, I've said it a million times.
The problem, the biggest problem in the party is actually not ideological.
I mean, there is some of that, but the biggest problem is not ideological.
It's character.
It's people who are willing to lie, willing to slander, willing to undermine the interests of the party to maintain their own positions and their own status within the party.
So like, you know, the Nevada Party, like you said, they hate it.
It's not an understatement to say they hated Ron Paul.
I mean, they hadn't used their own Twitter in a year.
And the last time they used it before recently was to do a I Hate Ron Paul week.
They did a whole week of just slamming Ron Paul.
Oh, he brought all these racists in and all that stuff.
And it's like, dude, Nevada was one of the states where Ron Paul did the best, as was New Hampshire.
Like, what are you doing?
And one of the things that was really gratifying about Nevada is in the process of them getting their shit in order.
We had actually made contact and formed partnerships with a bunch of the delegates, the Ron Paul delegates from Nevada and got them involved and started forming connections with them.
And a lot of these people stayed politically active the whole time and have their own networks that are now going to be integrated and worked with and recruited from.
And it's a new day in Nevada, that's for sure.
But it was also one of the states where the establishment, because of that being how they were, they would openly say that Nevada was their favorite state.
And just a little cherry on top is that the 2022 national convention is in Reno, Nevada.
So we took both the county party and the state party where the convention is.
Yeah, that's pretty nice.
And like you said, it really, it meant a lot to me personally that New Hampshire and Nevada, two of the strongest places for the Ron Paul 2012 campaign, are now in control by the Ron Paul Army, aka the Mises Caucus.
And so that just means a lot to me.
I think one of the things that I'm starting to notice, and I wonder if you're noticing the same thing, is that there are, obviously there are the critics of the Mises Caucus within the party.
They represent a very small contingency.
Very tiny.
And they have overplayed their hand for a few years now.
There are, look, we're all human beings and we all make mistakes.
We're all flawed.
And there are things you can criticize the Mises Caucus for, and there's things you can criticize me and you for.
But when you start calling everybody racist and Nazis and all this stuff, when we're clearly not, it tends to seem a bit ridiculous.
And then once you've done that, you really have nowhere left to go from there.
So it's kind of like you've emptied all of your big weaponry already and you have nothing left.
And I see a lot of people who are on the fence that were like, you know, I'm kind of happy that those guys aren't in Nevada anymore.
And I think now that the Mises Caucus is having these victories, it's like another opportunity to show people that it's like, yeah, when we do take over, we're not here to be like what, you know, the Libertarian Party of Nevada was before us.
Like, look, I may have some criticisms of some libertarians, but I'm not trying to spend a week shitting on Milton Friedman or something like that.
Like, that's not what we're about.
What we're trying to do is actually fight the state, fight for human liberty.
And I think, at least from what I've seen, a lot of people are starting to realize that the rap on the Mises caucus was just completely made up.
Yeah.
Well, first of all, racist and Nazi, that is so 2020.
The 2021 shit is anti-Semite and transphobe.
That's the new one.
That's version 3.0.
And yeah, man, I mean, and one little clarification on the takeover is one of the things that they're trying to do is to use the whole concept of the takeover.
Of course, they don't listen to your show about it.
They don't listen to our live stream about it.
They don't take any context because it's not actually about explaining anything.
It's about a club, a weapon to use for political purposes.
But the reality of it is that we're not here to take over or take anything away from people that are productive and honest.
You know what I mean?
Here to to replace leadership that has been responsible for a complete lack of messaging on the, on the shutdowns uh, who have purposely taken the party in a in a woke direction and and like killed the membership recruitment because of that.
Like, we're we're not here to just displace everybody, say fuck everybody.
We're here to work with everybody, but we can't be expected to work with people who are fundamentally dishonest.
You know, I can't be.
I can't be expected to work with people that call me a transphobe and and and uh uh, anti-semite.
You know, I just can't um, but I will work with anybody that is that is honest and reasonable, and we do uh, and you know, and a lot of times we actually support people who are re honest and reasonable and who've been here and have worked in the party.
So um, but as to your other points yeah, that that is exactly what's happening um, the growth and and a lot of it Dave frankly, is is in such large part to you uh the, the amount of people that we have entering our group uh, entering our email list, that directly tell us that.
You know, i'm here because of Dave Smith, i'm here because of Tom Woods um it's, it's just overwhelming.
So, but the but the growth has been absolutely astounding.
To put in perspective, our email list, at the time of the 2020 convention, where we took a national convention, where we took 40 of the vote, our email list was about 3500 people large.
Now it's about 14 000.
Liberty Report Growth Explained00:06:01
Um, you know what I mean.
So like, there are now thousands of us on the ground and what that means is that real people, real people are working with our people and they're they're experiencing us and they're finding out in real time, in real life, that the, the narrative of us is very different than than the experience of us.
You know, and they're seeing young people.
It's, it's mostly people like 18 to 28.
I mean, there's people older than that, but that's like the general uh, demographic and they're very, they're very motivated, they're very enthusiastic, they're coming in and they want to work.
And people are seeing that.
Um, you know people who didn't even like me before or or had a problem with me, saying like yeah man I it's, it's all me s people stepping up.
I don't, you know, I don't know what to do, and and uh well, and then, and then our job is to kind of show those people that we're serious and we're here for the cause of liberty and that all of these um, you know uh um, all of these attacks have been mischaracterizations of us.
And let me listen, I appreciate you um giving me credit for some of the people uh, coming in.
But let me turn this back around on you and give you the credit here, and and I mean this very sincerely and it literally I I can't even explain how much it warms my heart, but you know, and and this is um a credit to you and a direct um attack of the argument that some ancaps uh, some agorists have, that political action is a waste of time or, you know, it's consenting to the state, or something like that, which is complete bullshit.
Um, but look, Ron Paul uh didn't go away.
He still does the Liberty Report and it's amazing.
I mean, if you go listen to the Liberty Report, it's five days a week.
Him and Daniel Mcadams are attacking the empire.
That's all they do.
They break down everything and both of them know everything and they're great on everything.
Like they, they'll break down what's going on in China, in Russia, in Yemen, in Syria uh, what?
What's going on in the Pentagon?
What's going on?
They're right about everything.
And then, one day a week week, I guess it's with Chris Rossini and and then attack the economics, but usually that's attacking the empire too, because it's they're all interrelated.
But he's great, but the movement was never the same uh, since he stopped running for president and it's like I think that a lot of us, after the Ron Paul days, it was like this heartbreaking thing where we were like, where is the revolution?
I mean, I i'm watching Ron Paul in 2012, talk to 10 000 young people all over the country and and and then, after he left, you're like, what happened to this movement?
And in the same way, when I was just podcasting and wasn't in the Libertarian Party, it's like the same thing as like when Ron Paul just goes and does the podcast but isn't involved in the political fight, and what you did was you gave that movement a place.
Like you were like okay, this is what we're going to do, this is the strategy.
We're going to go into the Libertarian Party and i'll tell you man, it's just, it's amazing to watch for to, to think of those years where I was like, where is the Ron Paul movement?
And then to see what happened in in New Hampshire, to see what happened in Nevada, and it's like, oh yeah, there it is.
There's the revolution 2.0, it's right here here and that's what happened.
So it's like i'm i'm good at talking uh, this liberty shit and and getting people, you know like, like motivated, but there has to be a place for them to go and that's that's what you provided and it's it's really beautiful to see it happening.
Well, I appreciate that.
Yeah my my, my observation, like in the aftermath of the Ron Paul thing, was is, it was really exciting at first uh, because there's all these things that came out of that soil, like Ben Swan, the FREE Thought Project uh, the Anti-media Cokech came out of that like uh, all these podcasts and personalities and platforms.
But there was no call to action that binded all of them together and it was basically just for the growth of those platforms.
And I don't mean that in a bad way.
I mean alternative media is is very much so needed, but it didn't.
You can only read about how the state is so awful and evil and killing all these people and cops are killing people every day.
Like you can only read about that so much, without any kind of action.
Funnel to be like it's hopeless.
You know what I mean?
Like it's, it's hopeless.
So the what i've always observed is that there was no coalescing around a strategy after the Ron Paul thing, and and not only was there not that, but if it was ever to be done again that if it was, if it could be done under the guise of an organization as opposed to a singular campaign, then it never has to die, because any one campaign win or lose is destined to die.
You know but um, if you can get that positive feedback loop going in the guise of a, of an organization, that doesn't have to happen.
You know like, and and it could just keep going on and on.
And you know, we did get New Hampshire, we did get Nevada, and there's a lot of other states that we've gotten that are not nearly as heralded as that, and and more that we have lined up that are looking very good right now.
You know, we took Oklahoma.
There wasn't fanfare there uh, we took well, we retook New Jersey.
We uh, we took West Virginia.
Uh we, we've gained substantive grounds in Wisconsin, in in Utah.
Those guys were only really organizing and for like a month and a half before the convention like, some of these things are still just getting off the ground And yeah, I've got a great team around me.
I mean, Jeff Douglas, he is our national coordinator.
He is constantly in Zoom meetings with our organizers, keeping them straight, keeping them trained, keeping them aware of the back end and all the stuff that we, that we, the tools that we have available and the leads that we have available for people.
And it's at a point now where we do our monthly team meetings.
You were in last month's team meeting and we had to upgrade our Zoom account.
You know, there was 100 people in that Zoom meeting, and that's just our organizers.
Our organizing team is like 180 people large.
And that's bigger than the presidential campaigns to have 100 organizers like across the state in one meeting.
I mean, that's happening every month now.
And it's at a point where I essentially open the meetings up and I say, hey, guys, tell me the good news of your state this month.
And I just sit back and for the next 45 minutes, people tell me about, yeah, I've got 30 new people coming in.
Massive Organizing Team Update00:02:12
You know, yeah, I've got my buddy here.
We started three new counties or, you know, or Maryland.
And we just got a city council win in Maryland.
We're going to arm him with nullification legislation.
You know, like, and it's just, it's just overwhelming.
Yeah.
So, no, it's just, it's, it's fantastic to see.
It was really inspiring to be in that meeting.
I'm going to make sure I get in another one in another one soon.
All right, guys, let's take a quick second.
I want to thank our sponsor for today's show who wants to remind you that Mother's Day is coming up on May 9th.
And if you just realized that, don't worry, you still have time to get a great gift for your mother, the mother of your children, or someone who just helped you get through this crazy year.
Go to jamesallen.com.
JamesAllen.com allows you to customize the perfect piece of jewelry that works within your budget.
They have fantastic tennis bracelets, diamond earrings, diamond pendants, anniversary rings, and much, much more.
You can choose the diamonds origin, either earth-created or lab-created, the diamonds quality, the color and clarity, the metal, the carrot size, plus all the diamonds are hand-picked for maximum sparkle and brought to you online, giving you access to the best quality at the best price.
I can tell you guys, they have some really beautiful stuff.
I bought my wife her Mother's Day present there.
It's a really great experience.
Super easy.
They have a 100% money-back guarantee within 30 days.
They have 24-7 non-commissioned customer service, which is really nice.
You can talk to someone who's just trying to help you.
They're not pushy and trying to make a sale.
You can feel the difference.
You won't be pressured into buying anything.
You don't want to.
Each purchase comes with a complimentary lifetime service and that 100% money back guarantee for 30 days.
So get someone you love the perfect gift by going to jamesallen.com.
And if you use the promo code POTP30, you're going to get 30% off your order.
This is just, it's an incredible deal.
It's really beautiful stuff.
Jamesallen.com, promo code P-O-T-P30 for 30% off your order.
Open Borders Platform Debate00:09:31
All right, let's get back into the show.
So let's talk a little bit about maybe, you know, disregarding the kind of small contingent, contingency of dishonest critics that the Mises Caucus has had to deal with.
But let's kind of talk to the much larger group of people.
So I want to forget the deranged Mises critics for a second and forget the people in the Mises caucus as much as I love you, but you already know what we're all about.
So forget them for a second.
And I want to talk to, let's say, the other people, like what you were saying before when you were like, well, these guys over here, they won't even listen to the podcast.
Or if they do, they'll conveniently forget.
You know, my guess is that a lot of them do listen, but then very conveniently just like brush that aside because I know these people will go through my podcasts and they'll be like, well, Dave said this complimentary thing about the alt-right, you know, five years ago.
And I'm like, okay, if you're going through all five years of this, you definitely found the six podcasts that I did criticizing the alt-right, like where I did entire episodes criticizing the neo-reactionary right wing and stuff like that.
But that somehow those episodes never, you know, get quoted.
Anyway, but speaking to the people who will listen to this and will be honest about it, let's like get into some of the meat of what is the culture of the Mises caucus.
Because I see this, you know, very unfairly portrayed.
Like I was to his credit, the guy, I can't remember his name, but he did apologize, but he was one of the other, not Chris Spangle, but one of the other hosts on We Are Libertarians.
And it really bugged me that he, you know, was he misquoted me and then repeated it like, you know, like seven times or something like that, maybe more than that throughout the episode.
And this happened before with Chris Spangle, which he did apologize for when he came on the show and was like, yeah, I got that one wrong.
And to be fair, this guy also did apologize and said, yeah, I got that wrong.
But I see these people who make these accusations.
And there might be some other people who just assume that it's true.
And they'll say things like, you know, you get booted out of the Mises Caucus Facebook page if you say you're for open borders.
And I'm like, yeah, I think the majority of the caucus is for open borders.
Like, I've, you know, taken the stance that I'm not for open borders and it's a fairly controversial right.
And it's a fairly controversial stance within the caucus.
So no, that's not true.
It's not true that we are a culturally right-wing group.
I think it's really a mix.
And I think that the only thing that makes the Mises caucus unique in the Libertarian Party is that we are not all dogmatically culturally left.
That's my personal take from it.
But you're a little bit more connected to the party than me in terms of the on-the-ground stuff.
So what do you think about that?
Like, how would you describe the culture of the Mises Caucus?
It's very open and it is very, very mixed.
I mean, like you, I'm a private borders guy.
I have the ANCAT position.
And I personally don't believe that open borders is compatible with anarchism.
I think it basically presumes that the government has ownership of the borderlands and then treats them like the commons.
Whereas if private owners have it, that's us.
We're anarchists.
We don't believe in government, period.
So, but I also believe that they're both canon.
You know what I mean?
Anyway, but the culture is very diverse, very mixed.
I think we've done polls and stuff like that in the group before and actually found that culturally, we are more diverse within our bubble than the party is at large.
You know, we've got women on our board.
We've got, I mean, it's everybody.
And this goes right along with our platform.
You know, and we could talk about this if you want.
I think me and you might have a slight disagreement with one of these planks, but we have two planks that kind of speak to this whole thing where it's like one plank, it says it's the lifestyles plank.
And it basically just says the way that you run your life or your lifestyle or whatever is an extension of your self-ownership.
And that's on you.
Like you can be whatever you want.
Technically speaking, you can be an SJW and be in the Mises caucus, or you can be a paleo and be in the Mises caucus.
However, after that comes the identity politics plank.
And basically that is, it's pretty roughly worded.
It's basically saying that identity politics is just tribalism.
And that's true.
But what we're getting at when we bring those two things together is to say, look, you can be an SJW.
That's fine.
We don't give a shit what you are.
But you've got to put decentralization, property rights, anti-war, you know, and the Fed, all that stuff above your identity shit.
If you can't do that, we're not for you.
You know what I mean?
Like, and as long as you do that, we don't care what you are.
You know what I mean?
And it's been working out very well.
And I also think another interesting thing is when the topic of open border, like when the topic of immigration and abortion comes up in the party at large, it turns into a very nasty thing a lot of times.
I'm of the opinion that the reason it gets very nasty is because both of those things are in the Libertarian Party platform.
So like it is explicitly pro-choice.
They pay some lip service to like, yeah, this is a sensitive issue, but it is a explicitly pro-choice platform and it's also explicitly a pro-opers platform.
Well, there's an agreement going back a long way in the party saying that it's neither an anarchist or a minarchist party, meaning everybody is welcome.
Well, that means that we have to accept that there are certain small differences in first principles when it comes to the difference between anarchists and minarchists.
Minarchists do believe that the government ought to own the borders.
You know what I mean?
And so there's a spectrum there when it comes to that.
Minarchists do believe that the role of government, one of the roles of government or small government is to protect life, which I think kind of means that we have to have pro-life libertarians at the table.
If we're going to say it's this whole thing, it might not be your position, but we have to have that whole tolerance thing, right?
Like we have to, there's no consensus within the literature, within the community, within the candidates, within anything that open borders is the position or pro-choice is the position.
Both are.
Yeah.
Well, that's right.
And I think that's an important thing to acknowledge that, look, the reality is, right, that there are of the, there are great libertarian thinkers who are on both sides of those issues.
And, you know, I know where I fall on the issues.
Like, I'm a pro-life guy and I'm a private borders guy.
But, you know, for anybody who just wants to dismiss that those aren't libertarian positions, you're going to have a pretty big problem on your hands, which is that like, I've got Ron Paul on my side.
I've got Murray Rothbard on my side.
I've got, you know what I mean?
Like, it's like, I don't know, just those two names alone.
And there's a lot more you could go through.
Of course, Murray Rothbard was pro-choice, just to be clear, but Ron Paul is pro-life.
But I'm talking about like that neither of them supported open borders.
Now, I'm sorry, if I have the greatest libertarian philosopher to ever live and the greatest libertarian champion to ever live on my side, you can't just simply say those aren't the libertarian positions.
Obviously, there is debate amongst these issues and there's lots of libertarians that fall on both sides.
But we certainly aren't suggesting that those other libertarians have to get out or that they're not part of the club or something like that.
It's just like, well, listen, let's have the argument.
Let's like, this is why I'm on this side of it.
And we can, you know, like, let's figure this out together.
And what is the correct libertarian position?
And also, one of the focuses of the Mises caucus, I think, has been to say, well, listen, we can have differences of opinion on that, but let's really focus on the fact that we are together on end the wars, you know, most recently, of course, ending the lockdowns and the whole COVID regime, ending the Federal Reserve, ending the cronyism of the economy, the cartelization of the economy, decentralization, nullification, secession, like all these things that all of us libertarians are together on.
And so it seems like a pretty reasonable starting point to me.
Yeah, I mean, I think what happens in the Libertarian Party is because both of those things are in the platform, there's no the people who benefit from it being in the platform, they have no reason to have a discussion.
I'm a libertarian because it's in the platform.
You're a Republican because you have the pro-life thing.
And I'm going to use this as a club and chase you out, basically.
Whereas what happens with us, we don't have either of those things in the Mises Caucus platform.
And what tends to happen is when those conversations come up, yeah, you're always going to get somebody who's crazy with it.
But generally speaking, they are productive conversations because it's not a power play.
It's not a power play over who controls the party and what it's like, it's an actual discussion.
And I really think in the same way, so like in the same way that there are a lot of pro-there's a lot of open border libertarians, there's a lot of private border libertarians.
Like you said, we focus on what matters.
We focus on what we agree with.
Whether you're a minarchist or an anarchist, there's not really too many pro-drug war libertarians.
Shave Sponsorship Misconception00:02:30
You know what I mean?
Like, like, so you don't have that.
So by focusing on that, we bring everything together and just say, look, let the candidates sort the stuff out where there's a spectrum.
You know, if we all agree on pro-war, pro-war, Jesus.
If we all agree on anti-war, anti-drug war, you know, all this stuff, then let's focus on that and then let the candidates speak for themselves where they are on the issues where there's a spectrum.
And everybody can be represented.
There's no need to wield anything against each other.
And it all works out.
Or at least that's what happens in our little culture.
Right.
Yeah.
No, I agree.
All right, guys, let's take a moment and thank our sponsor for today's show, which is Harry's.
You don't have to choose between a great shave or a fair price.
Harry's will give you both.
And for a limited time, Harry's is offering their starter set plus free travel size body wash at harry's.com slash problem.
Everybody knows by now, but I'll tell you again, Harry's delivers a close, comfortable shave at a fair price, still as low as $2 per refill.
There's no gimmicks or unnecessary features.
Harry's design team combined a weighted ergonomic handle with a textured grip and flex hinge.
It's a smart, simple razor designed for delivering a close shave along all contours of your face.
Owning their own means of production and using only the most crucial features allows them to keep prices as low as $2 per refill.
Harry's stands behind the quality of their blades so much that they have a 100% money-back guarantee on Harry's.com.
Everybody who uses Harry's loves them.
I've gotten so much great feedback from this sponsor.
This is the place if you want to get quality razors at a really reasonable price.
This is where you got to go.
And for a limited time, Harry's has made their exclusive offer even better for our listeners.
New customers can get a special offer and a Harry's starter set and body wash at Harry's.com slash problem.
You'll get a five-blade razor, a weighted Truman handle, foaming shave gel, a travel blade cover, and a travel size body wash.
There's never been a better time to try Harry's.
Go to Harry's.com/slash problem to redeem this offer today.
This won't last long, so take advantage of it.
Harry's.com slash problem.
All right, let's get back into the show.
Cultural Marxism and Wokeism00:15:49
I think that there's, you know, to me, there seems to be this misconception.
And again, I'm not just talking about like the deranged maniacs.
I'm talking about just from, you know, like decent people in the party.
But there seems to be a misconception.
Like, I went back and forth with this guy on Twitter the other day.
I'm blanking on his name, but a bunch of people who I like were like, no, no, he's a really good guy.
He's not like coming at you in a shitty way.
And he was.
He was.
But he was saying that he's really concerned that I'm bringing a lot of social conservatives into the party.
And at first, you know, I almost have like two responses to this.
Like, number one, I go, why would you even care?
Like, you know, because that's kind of the Mises caucus attitude.
Like, you can be as socially conservative as you want to, or you can be as socially liberal as you want to.
Like, are you a libertarian?
The things have nothing to do with each other.
You can have whatever religious values or traditional values or anti-religious values, anti-traditionalist values that you have.
It's as long as you're good with freedom, then we're all on the same team.
So like, but then my other thing was I was like, where do you even get this from?
That my audience is socially conservative.
And what does this label even mean?
I mean, like, my audience is primarily built from the Legion of Skanks podcast, Joe Rogan's podcast.
Like, it's like, what about this is paleo conservative?
Like, do you even know what that term means?
Do you think like they're listening to that?
Like, it just seems very removed from reality.
And I think sometimes people who are very socially progressive find anything that does not dogmatically line up with their worldview to be conservative.
So if you're not that, then you've got to be far right wing.
But to me, the reality is that I think certainly for me, right?
I don't think it's accurate to describe me as a social conservative.
I'm a lot of my best friends are like total degenerates.
I've came up in the stand-up comedy scene.
I'm a Jew from Brooklyn.
I'm just not, it doesn't really seem like the shoe fits.
However, I also do have some critiques about our culture.
Like I don't like broken families.
I don't like that kids are watching pornography all the time.
I don't like that like Instagram is filled with like girls showing their ass all the time.
Like I got a daughter I'm raising.
I don't think that's a good culture to be for a young girl growing up in.
But it's almost like they have this thing where they call, it's like the implication is like, oh, you must, you must hate gay people or something, or you must hate trans people or you hate black people or something like that is like the implication.
But it's like, are we not allowed to have any feelings?
Like we just have to accept that everything over the last 50 years has been pure progress.
Why?
Especially when it lines up with all of these other disastrous state policies that we hate.
Why can't we have some?
So again, it's like, I think to me, the Mises caucus is a mix, but I don't think it's accurate that we represent some like hard social conservatism.
It just seems like there are some people in there who are willing to criticize aspects of the culture that are pretty clearly toxic.
Yeah.
And again, that's like the complete, them taking that road is the complete opposite of what I said earlier about like what's higher or lower in the value hierarchy.
So I believe that just the same way that you can watch people's behaviors and deduce certain things about their subjective value preferences in the marketplace by watching those behaviors, you can also deduce a little something about how much they value values by watching their actions with other people.
And what essentially the people that you're describing are doing is they are they have libertarian instincts, but they are taking their identity and trying to fuse the two things as if their identity is libertarianism or that their identity is a key feature of libertarianism or something like that.
When it's actually, there's a clear delineation there.
There's our freedom, there's our relationship with the state, and then there's how you conduct your life.
You know what I mean?
And those are two different things.
But they clearly value the identity stuff above the liberty stuff.
And I think the reason for that is because we're beat down, dude.
We don't have that many wins.
You know, like, like, we've really got to get this positive feedback loop because it's the same reason why you have the mask Karens.
You know, it's pretty hard to go out there and take on the empire, but and it's often a thankless job when you do it.
But you know, you might, you will get validated if you say, hey, sir, you need to put on a mask.
You know what I mean?
Like, and it's these easy victories that, and that they, or well, victories that they, that they get to, to basically boost up their virtue and claim, like falsely claim virtue that they did not earn.
Yeah.
Yeah.
No, absolutely.
I think, okay, so one thing I will say, because look, to be like, I agree with what you said, that you are right that you could be a social justice warrior and be in the Mises caucus.
Like, we honestly really wouldn't care.
And I certainly wouldn't care.
Like, I don't, you could have any one of those cultural, you know, attitudes and say, hey, I want to end there would be nothing contradictory to having that and saying, I want to end all of the wars.
I want to end the war on drugs and demilitarize the police.
I want to audit of the Federal Reserve.
I think that states and local communities should have more power and the federal government should be shrunk and all of this.
And if there was that person, I'd go, great.
Well, let's fight together for all of those things.
But honestly, there's not too many of those people.
And sorry, recognizing patterns.
Yeah, it seems to me that the people who are on, who are really like who identify that way, they have a lot of trouble ordering the hierarchy the way that I'm outlining.
And they have a lot of trouble ordering decentralization and Austrian economics above the lifestyle stuff.
And we can't have that.
So where I don't feel that it is accurate to describe the Mises caucus as like paleo-social conservatives or something like that or traditionalists.
I just don't feel like that's accurate.
It's very diverse.
There certainly are some people in the caucus who fit that label, but I don't think it describes the caucus in general.
But I would say that overall, if we're talking about the vast majority of the caucus, I think something that I do, in terms of pattern recognition, something that I do see throughout the caucus, which is different that really makes it unique from the rest of the Libertarian Party.
And I think this is part of why people, some people have concerns about the Mises Caucus, is that there is, I believe, a large rejection of woke culture.
It's not that the Mises caucus is like these cultural conservatives who want to return to the 50s and think like a woman's role is in the kitchen and we hate homos or we're like it's nothing like that but there is a rejection of the the woke wokeism for for lack of better term And that to me does seem to be something that really differentiates the Mises caucus from the rest of the libertarian party.
It's an interesting thing to see because really wokeism as we know it is such a new thing.
I mean, it's really like the claims that are made today, if they were made seven years ago, people would be like, what are you talking about?
I mean, this would be the idea that someone should be canceled for saying all lives matter or that we really should have a discussion about whether Mr. and Mrs. Potato Head is offensive because, you know, like all of this stuff is very new.
So it's very strange that a libertarian would have to embrace it.
And then the fact that it's pushed so hard by like the CIA and Raytheon and the Federal Reserve and the Democrats and the executive branch, the Congress, like all of this, you would think that would allow libertarians to be like, yeah, we have a right to be skeptical about this stuff.
So that to me is the only area where I would give them some like, okay, there is something to the fact that our group does seem to largely reject the woke ideology.
Well, and what is the woke ideology really?
What is it?
So like, it's, if you were to ask me to kind of put it simply, it is Marxism that has traded in the economic dialectics for cultural ones whose argumentation is undergirded by postmodernism.
So, and that's, that's what it is.
Well, we are against Marxist ideology.
And we're, it's like we're not allowed to say that the wokeism is, you know, there's the term cultural Marxist.
And I know a lot of people don't like that term.
I do.
I think it's pretty accurate.
I think what I just described is cultural Marxism using agitating towards Marxist ends, but trading in the economic worker owner, you know, rich, poor dialectics for, you know, white, black, straight, or straight, cis, all this stuff.
But the ideology that under that is being agitated towards is the same.
And the, and in order to attack the, the, the truth claims that that they are addressing, they have to also implement the postmodernist thing.
And again, that might not, the postmodernist thing is kind of a little bit different, but it's also not in a way, because like the overarching claim essentially of postmodernism is that there's no ultimate truths.
Well, there's no ultimate truths and the NAP doesn't, the NAP plus property rights wouldn't be consistent and not work in the real world.
So like it is a truth.
If it really works, then it is a truth.
It's certainly logically true.
So like we have to fight for that.
And of course we would fight against Marxism.
It's just not widely recognized as being Marxism because it's being pushed out from all the institutions of society.
Yeah, well, so here to me is the problem with the term cultural Marxism.
And it's the reason why I kind of stopped using the term is that, but it's not that I disagree so much with what you're saying, right?
First off, right, it comes out of the Frankfurt School.
And then people have this kind of like this perception that what you're saying is that the Frankfurt school has taken over America, which is not exactly the case.
It's like some of these ideas have gone through a big evolution and they've gone through all of these different filters and they've kind of like, they've come out as what they are now.
I also think that there are people who hear the term cultural Marxism and because a lot of hard right wingers have used it, they think that you're talking about like interracial marriage or that you're against like, you know, stuff that I don't mean by it and that you don't mean by it.
And so it's a term that's confusing.
And the other thing about it, and this is where like, so someone like Jesse Miller, who I had on the show, who I really enjoy listening to, he constantly refers to the enemies as communists, you know, that, you know, there's a communist takeover.
All of this is communist.
And the problem I have with that is that it's really not.
It's really not.
Like this is not, J.P. Morgan Chase is not pushing communism.
That's not what they want.
Communism is dead and gone.
There is no plan in the American corporate hierarchy to push the, you know, like the seizing of the means of production by the state.
They're not trying to push a, you know, a stateless, classless society.
That's not the goal.
It is corporatism.
I mean, that's what they're pushing.
Now, it may have originated some of these ideas from neo-Marxists, but that's not real.
So in that sense, it's not Marxist, right?
In the sense that the plan is for Bank of America and J.P. Morgan Chase to keep all of their profits.
That part of it ain't Marxist at all.
However, the part of it that does kind of have its roots in Marxism and that is similar is that Marx's philosophy was basically that you have that, and this is his words.
I'm not overstating this.
He said that all of history can be summed up as a class struggle.
Basically everything that's happened is a battle between classes and everything comes down to the proletariat versus the bourgeoisie.
Like that's what everything is.
And this has been adopted and applied to the cultural elements.
So everything comes down to racism.
Everything comes down to sexism.
It's black versus white.
It's men versus women.
It's straight versus gay.
It's cis versus trans.
And everything can be reduced to this.
This is the kind of woke intersectional mind state.
And the truth is that it's really, really stupid.
This does not describe the world that we live in.
And it's stupid and it's also incredibly divisive and incredibly destructive.
And of course, I mean, you can just think of a million examples where it's like, yeah, no, some poor white dude in Appalachia is not the oppressor and the Obama daughters are the oppressed.
Like that's just not reality.
There are white homeless people and black billionaires in this country.
And it doesn't help anybody to think of them in these simple groups as oppressed versus oppressor because it's just not the reality.
On top of that, it pits people against each other and it is clearly being used as a distraction from the issues that matter.
And so it just reminds me, and to me, this is like the damage of wokeism and even in the libertarian world.
This quote that the guy on We Are Libertarians was pulling from me.
So what he kept saying on the show, he said over and over and over, maybe 15 times or something like that, as he goes, Dave Smith's out there on Twitter saying trans rights are some shit.
He keeps, he says trans rights are some shit.
And you don't have a problem with that?
Now, first off, I would think any honest person listening to that is like, well, what's the rest of the quote?
I mean, I didn't just tweet trans rights or some shit.
Obviously, there's something else being said there.
And then, of course, I didn't even say trans rights or some shit.
I said transphobia or some shit.
And the comment was, if libertarians are focused on war and slavery and debt and taxation, how do we get distracted by transphobia or some shit?
That's the comment.
Now, you can judge that or try to pick it apart, but at least deal with what that is.
But the response to that isn't like people going, oh yeah, you know, I guess genocide is a lot worse than some people having icky feelings about trans people.
The response to it is like, oh, Dave's being transphobic.
And you're like, dude, I mean, if you now, I should say, that's only the response from a few people, but the point is, this is what we reject about wokeism.
The fact that it prioritizes that somebody might have the wrong thoughts about some other group of people over policies that actually screw over real human beings.
That's what needs to be rejected.
And I think that's where the Mises caucus, how the Mises caucus sees these issues.
Rejecting Transphobic Narratives00:11:21
Yeah, absolutely.
And I also agree that, and I guess I misspoke a little bit there because I totally agree that what we're looking at is fundamentally fascism.
And it always has been.
This isn't a new thing.
This isn't a Trump thing.
This isn't a Biden thing.
This is going back.
You know, ever since the banking system took over is where the fascism really started to creep in.
But yeah, and I think we're in a moment where the word fascism is so not understood.
Like people understand the authoritarian aspect of it, but they certainly don't understand the economic aspect of it.
And I think it's a lot more difficult for us as libertarians in real time as it's unfolding to deal with, like, to argue with fascism because it's dealing with quote unquote private business, you know, that's in many cases private in name only.
And that's, I think, the challenge that we've got before us as these vaccine, you know, mandates roll out and all of that.
Yeah, no, I completely agree.
And the fact that you do start to get into these areas that are, by the way, it's intentionally designed because even though they don't follow a lot of them, there are still some constitutional restraints put on the government.
And so many times now they have these.
There was just a piece out the other day about how the Biden administration is using these private companies to surveil Americans now because they don't want to be like, eh, okay, maybe technically it's illegal for the government to do it.
So we'll just have these private companies do it.
And then look, it's a private business.
But the libertarian response to that can't be, well, they're a private company.
They're allowed to do what they want.
We have to point out that this is the government, essentially.
The libertarians didn't argue that with Blackwater.
You know what I mean?
Like they didn't say, like, oh, well, you know, we can't have the army, we can't have the army torturing, you know, Iraqis, but private companies, they would do that.
You know what I mean?
Like, it's absurd.
All right, guys, let's take a moment and thank our sponsor for today's show, which is Bambi.
When running a business, HR issues can kill you.
Wrongful termination suits, minimum wage requirements, labor regulations, and HR managers, their salaries aren't cheap.
An average of $70,000 a year.
What a waste.
Bambi, spelled B-A-M-B-E-E, was created specifically for small businesses.
You can get a dedicated HR manager, craft HR policy, and maintain your compliance all for just $99 a month.
With Bambi, you can change HR from your biggest liability to your biggest strength.
Your dedicated HR manager is available by phone, email, or real-time chat from onboarding to terminations.
They customize your policies to fit your business and help you manage your employees day to day, all for just $99 a month.
It's month to month.
There's no hidden fees.
You can cancel anytime.
You didn't start your business because you wanted to spend time on HR compliance.
Let Bambi help.
Get your free HR audit today.
Go to bambi.com/slash P-O-T-P right now to schedule your free HR audit.
That's bambi.com/slash P-O-T-P, B-A-M-B-E-E dot com slash P-O-T-P.
Get your free HR audit today.
All right, let's get back into the show.
Again, in the spirit of what we were saying before of talking to kind of like the reasonable people who are maybe not members of the Mises caucus, but who also see, because I see a lot more of these, who also go like, they may not be members of the Mises caucus, but they go, yeah, some of this criticism is a little bit ridiculous.
Like, I'm sorry, the people who are trying to like call me alt-right, you know, or something like that, right?
Like, I debated one of the leaders of the Prague caucus who called me alt-right.
I mean, I think it's just really hard to make that stick.
Like, go watch my three-hour, you know, interview on Rogan's podcast.
It's like, like, where's the alt-right part of this?
Where's the racialist in me?
Like, I'm clearly not that guy.
I'm just a libertarian who's pushing all of these libertarian things.
But so, talking to those people, you know, you may disagree.
Maybe you have a different take on some of this stuff, but I'm just trying to be like, let's have a discussion about who we honestly are and what we honestly believe.
And this is why we largely reject the woke stuff.
And this is why we largely don't obsess over thought crimes.
We don't believe in this idea of like denouncing people for having a tweet that was, you know, like politically incorrect or was offensive or even maybe like shitty.
Maybe they said something shitty a few years ago.
It's not our job to denounce those people.
It's our job to like try to push everybody to be more libertarian.
We don't believe in this kind of like witch hunt thought crime mentality.
We don't believe in isolating quotes from the last six years, giving them the least generous interpretation and then going on a witch hunt about them.
It's just not like that's that's not what we're about.
You can disagree with us on that, but the truth is that there's nothing there that is suggesting that, well, we've all got this secret bigotry.
We don't like bigotry.
It's really funny.
Like everybody in the Mises caucus, what they can never do is point to one leader in the Mises caucus and go, this guy's a racist, because that guy doesn't exist.
And in fact, I know, because I've talked to you and a lot of different people in the Mises caucus, we are very concerned with the plight of inner cities in this country and how shitty the conditions are for disproportionately people of color and things like that.
And it's part of, not solely, but part of the reason why we oppose all of the things that fuck over the black community more than anything else, namely the war on drugs, the military-industrial complex, the Federal Reserve boom-bust cycle.
I mean, this is the stuff that really fucks over the poor and in many cases, you know, minorities.
So it's just, you know, like, let's at least, if people are going to have disagreements with us, let's at least make them based on what we actually are and what we actually believe.
Yeah, I mean, the way I see it when it comes to like the different people in the party, it's like you've got us on one side.
You've got this small number of the establishment that is poisoning the well on the other side.
And then you've got what we call friendlies on the outside circle or, well, I would say they're inside the circle.
And these are people who like, they're down with us.
They like us.
They just don't want to associate with the caucus.
You know what I mean?
They like what we do, but they don't want to associate with the caucus.
Then you've got, you know, the middle after that.
You know, you've got the uncaucus people, the people in the middle.
Then after that, you've got the middle that has been poisoned.
And then you've got the poisoners.
And it's really important to delineate and identify the middle and the people who have been poisoned that you can still talk to, hopefully, and reason with.
And then the poisoners.
And these people all need to be treated differently.
And that's what makes this very, very complicated.
But I mean, one thing that gives me encouragement is I'm pretty good friends with the vice chair of the Libertarian Party.
And, you know, he's somebody who's been involved in the party for 20 plus years, has done a lot of work on the tech side of things.
The new CRM project that they're using is his baby, which is data management, customer relationship.
You know, it's a really, really important tool.
And he's basically been blackballed recently and it's because of certain factions playing games with him.
So this guy is the exact kind of guy that you were describing, the vice chair of the party.
Like he is in the middle.
He's not in a caucus.
He doesn't give a shit about the caucus.
He doesn't give a shit about the fighting between the caucuses or even necessarily.
Well, I shouldn't say he doesn't care about why.
Some people don't care about why, and that gets frustrating.
But basically, he's just like, look, dude, I just want to see good things happen.
And that's all these people want.
That's all they want.
They just want to see people getting to work.
And the more that we do that, the more we can win over the middle and cure the poisoned.
Whereas it will, as the poisoners get more out of control, it will expose them as what they are.
Because again, we are now working with people in a number that we've never had before.
And that narrative is falling apart.
So we have to be mindful of that.
And if there's one criticism that I would accept of the caucus or our people, it's that, you know, we can be quick to be defensive sometimes, you know, and I'm not immune to that.
I certainly can be very quick to be defensive sometimes.
I think it's to be expected when we've gotten the treatment that we've gotten.
But at the same time, out in the wild, people can't account for all of that when they just see you being defensive.
And if they don't understand all that context, being defensive can be very easily interpreted as being an asshole.
Yeah.
Without the context.
I agree with you.
And I think that that's something that's, I said that when I had Karen Ann Harlos on my show, and that that would be one of the criticisms.
I've seen that from people in the Mises caucus where they treat people.
I think it's usually because there are like a group of people who are viciously attacking them.
And then when someone else comes along and maybe just asks a question, they treat it as if that person was viciously attacking them when that person wasn't necessarily doing that.
And so my message to the Mises Caucus members is treat everybody with the presumption of innocence.
I think that's how we should, you know what I mean?
Like the same kind of legal value that we have.
Treat people in your regular interactions.
Give everybody the presumption of innocence.
And if they show you reason to not believe that, then fine.
But make sure that you start with that presumption.
I think it's really important right now.
And that's why I've been pushing the kind of liberty unity stuff, is that I think it's really important right now to let people know that anybody who's of that mindset, anybody who's of the mindset of like, look, we don't care about the petty shit.
We want to get good things done.
We are with you.
We are more than happy to work with those people.
Absolutely.
This is not like we've, we, this, this fight over all this internal fighting shit, this is not what we're here for.
This is what we've had to go through to get to what we're here for.
But what we're here for is the revolution.
And so all of that stuff, you know what I mean?
Like we're, we will be very willing and very happy to brush a lot of this stuff away and move toward what our common goal is, as long as our common goal is human liberty.
So I do want to talk now because we're coming up toward the end of time.
We got an event coming up in Pittsburgh.
I will be speaking on May 14th.
I apologize because I've told several people that I've been promoting it as May 15th.
I mean, I am, just so you guys know. just promoting Jeff Dice.
I'm just in the game of promoting Jeff Dice.
Pittsburgh Convention Plans00:10:02
I'm stupid.
And most people who listen to this podcast should have figured that out by now.
You are following a borderline retarded person around.
I booked the flights the wrong date.
I had the wrong date for everything.
But I will correct that and rebook all of that.
I will be speaking May 14th.
The event is May 14th and May 15th.
Tell me what's going on in Pennsylvania.
Why are we having this Mises caucus event?
What do people need to know about Pennsylvania?
So Pennsylvania, I'm going to give some numbers rundown to kind of set up the context here.
But Pennsylvania is perhaps the most strategically important state that we're going to have in the entire convention cycle this year.
And to put it in perspective, Josh Smith, I had mentioned earlier that we had 3,500 emails at the time that Josh Smith was running at that convention.
That's quadrupled.
We were making like $5,000 a month.
Well, less than that.
We were making like $4,000 a month.
I had a $17,000 budget that produced that 40%.
Now we're at almost $14,000 a month and we're going to have a much larger budget.
So Pennsylvania is the fourth largest delegation.
So like the state parties elect delegates.
Those delegates go to the national convention and that's who votes for the leadership, the changes to the national platform and the bylaws and all that stuff.
So California, Josh did very good in California.
He took 60%.
And that was a very good result.
However, Josh wasn't from California.
He had moved there.
He didn't have super deep roots there the way that Angela does.
And Angela is the chair of Los Angeles County, which is bigger than many state parties.
And so saying that to say, we have very good reason to believe that Angela is going to do well in California.
Second largest delegation, Texas.
We got obliterated in Texas last year.
We got basically nothing.
Part of that was not our fault.
They basically, they didn't have elections.
The board selected delegates.
So we got pretty much nothing.
So if we even get 20 delegates out of Texas, which I think is very reasonable, that's a huge improvement.
So then Florida, the third largest delegation.
We are very, very strong in Florida.
And I don't see that changing.
So then that brings us to Pennsylvania.
If we do very well in the first largest and third largest delegation and then also take the fourth largest delegation state, that could very well be a backbreaking moment, especially considering that we've already taken all these other states on the margins or at the very, very least have made substantive gains on other states on the margins.
So like I said, we took Nevada, we took New Hampshire, we took Oklahoma, we took West Virginia.
Delaware looks very good.
Arizona looks good next year.
Like there is a lot there.
So saying that to say, they know this.
They know the calculus.
They know the game.
They know what's going on.
So I have been in a, unfortunately, I've been in a conflict with my state leadership for about two years now.
It has its roots in the Maj Tour campaign.
They attempted to chase him out of the party.
I have that dude's back.
I fully believe in Maj and what he does.
And when I did that, my relationships, my friendships that I had for years, I mean, the one guy, I won't name names, but the one guy, I had known him since the Ron Paul days, man.
You know what I mean?
But as soon as I questioned these guys and as soon as I took Maj's back publicly against them, friendship's over.
And it hasn't been the same ever since.
So it's gotten pretty nasty here.
And up to and including we tried to give the state party certain speakers.
We tried to get Michael Rechtenwald in there because he's from Pittsburgh and that's where the convention is.
We tried to get you, tried to get Scott Horton.
And basically the only one that they were interested in was Scott Horton.
And we were offering to pay for everything.
And I'm handling the booking for all of this.
And essentially, it was, you know, you're not going to disrespect Dave and get Scott.
And especially if you're also going to say, no, we don't want Rechtonwald, who's right here in town, and it's all for free.
You know, it's not like they had a huge budget.
So essentially, they deemed you divisive and problematic.
And what I mean they, again, this is also a very small number of people who happen to occupy certain positions.
This is not indicative of the ground troops or the majority in any way, shape, or form.
But yeah, so you are problematic because, you know, I think the one guy who said that quoted the trans shit or whatever that misquote was.
And, you know, I mean, there's been claims from these people of homophobia of you and no receipts, nothing.
How could you accuse me of homophobia when I host the Legion of Skanks podcast with two flamingly gay guys, Jay and Lewis?
I mean, like the gayest people you know.
There's a video of them making out around me.
Because none of this has anything to do with facts.
It has to do with power and position.
You know what I mean?
Like that's it.
And they won't admit it.
And that's another thing that makes us, the Mises caucus, unique.
We are open in saying, hey, we're not happy with the leadership.
We're not happy with the messaging.
We want to change it.
These guys already have the control and they're not willing to say, well, that control is our motivation.
So they wrap that motivation up in some grand narrative of, I don't want control.
I'm saving the party from homophobia.
You know what I mean?
Or some nonsense.
So anyway, long story short, we tried to put these speakers in.
They didn't want them.
So that's not acceptable to us.
And, you know, we're not going to try to tear their shit down.
We're not going to try to hurt them.
We're just going to do our own thing then.
So we've got our own event.
It's, like you said, the 14th, Friday, and 15th Saturday.
It's the Take Human Action Bash in Pittsburgh.
It's going to be featuring Val Finnell, who is the Gun Owners of America state chapter head here.
It's going to feature Scott Horton on Friday.
It's going to feature you as a headliner on Friday.
And then Saturday, we've got Anthony Samaroff coming in.
We've got Michael Rechtenwald.
And I'm really happy that Jeff Deist is coming.
Jeff Dice doesn't do Libertarian Party events.
You know what I mean?
So how cool was that that we got Jeff Dice of the Mises Institute to come and headline on Saturday as well?
And the entire event is free if you're a member of the Libertarian Party of Pennsylvania.
So if you, and we've got people coming from Maine, Michigan, Texas, all over the place to Pittsburgh for this.
So if you want to get tickets for that and become a party member, go to lpmisescaucus.com slash bash.
Yeah, man.
Make sure you go there and make sure if you can come out to this event.
Look, for all the people who are really excited about me considering running, if you can help the effort here in Pennsylvania, this is a really, really important step, as Michael was outlining, to get all of these things going.
Listen, we're handling this, I think, in the most libertarian way you could.
It's like, hey, if they don't want to have me speak there, that's fine.
That's their right.
They have their freedom of association.
But we also have the right to go have our own event and say what we want to say.
And if they want to turn away, like I don't mean to be a dick about this, but I'm sure I'm the biggest draw that would be at this event.
If they don't want to have me bring all these people to them, then okay, we're going to bring this somewhere else.
And it's a toss-up.
It's a toss-up between you and Starwork.
Yeah, right.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So there you go.
So anyway, look, man, we got to wrap up here.
But dude, you're a fucking inspiration.
The work you've been doing is incredible.
I know you've taken a lot of shots.
You've taken a lot of incoming fire over the years.
As a great libertarian said once, It may prick a little bit, but it is a badge of honor.
And I really appreciate everything you're doing.
You inspired me to join the party.
You inspired me to continue working with the party.
It's funny, I used to get criticized by the Libertarian Party.
The only criticism from Libertarians I ever used to get was from LP members who would say, Why don't you?
How come you're not in the party?
And now I've joined and I'm trying to push my sizable audience into the party.
And now we got to hold our own events.
But you know what?
We're going to hold it.
It's going to be an awesome fucking event.
Make sure you're there.
It is on May 14th, I will be speaking.
May 15th, the event continues as well.
So if I pushed anyone there, I hope you can make it on the 14th to see me.
But we're going to have a real fun time in Pittsburgh.
I'm looking forward to this.
Absolutely, man.
And I'm having a blast.
I mean, the bullshit can be old sometimes, but the truth of it is I'm having an absolute blast doing this.
I'll be doing the most traveling I've ever done in my life this year, going to all these Liberty events to table, to recruit, to fundraise, to network.
This is about to become my full-time job come June 1st, which is just unbelievable.
I can't believe that.
And yeah, so if you like what you hear, if you want to be a part of the takeover, if it, well, one last thing I'll say on the Pittsburgh thing: they don't actually believe that you're homophobic, dude.
Here's what it is: they know that the crowd that you bring and the crowd that we will bring, if they were to go over to that convention as members and vote, aren't going to vote the way, most likely they are not going to vote the way that they're supposed to vote.
That's what this is about.
That's why they didn't want you.
That's why they underestimated our resources.
And they'll never admit it, but that's what it's about.
So if that sounds like bullshit to you, takehumanaction.com, sign up for our email list.
We'll get you connected to our organizers, lpmisescaucus.com/slash bash to get your tickets for the event.
All right, man.
Hell yeah.
Thank you, Michael, so much for taking the time today.
We'll do it again real soon.
We'll keep updating you guys on the state of the Mises Caucus throughout the next year.
I told you guys this year was going to be a big one, and it is shaping up to be every bit as big as we had hoped.