James Smith and Robbie the Fire Bernstein dissect recent riots, arguing that looting contradicts anti-racism claims while criticizing epidemiologists for ideological lockdowns. They analyze the "defund the police" movement as a push toward Rothbardian anarchism that would collapse gun laws and privatize security, potentially aiding Donald Trump by alienating the silent majority. Ultimately, the discussion suggests that replacing state monopolies with private defense firms might increase accountability but risks escalating violence if systemic issues like forced disarmament remain unaddressed. [Automatically generated summary]
Transcriber: nvidia/parakeet-tdt-0.6b-v2, sat-12l-sm, and large-v3-turbo
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Agenda Behind The Protests00:14:41
Fill her up.
You're listening to the Gas Digital Network.
We need to roll back the state.
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Our prisons are flooded with nonviolent drug offenders.
If you want to know who America's next enemy is, look at who we're funding right now.
Every single one of these problems are a result of government being way too big.
You're listening to part of the problem on the Gas Digital Network.
Here's your host, James Smith.
What's up, everybody?
Welcome to a brand new episode of Part of the Problem.
So happy to have my life partner, my brother in arms, Robbie the Fire Bernstein, back with me.
How are you, sir?
I'm still surviving.
I don't know how, but, you know, it's week 1 million and I'm still here.
Yeah, the fire is out and it looks like a little bit of a mess in the background, if I do say so.
Well, you know, I've been living in the place for a little bit.
So this is actually pretty clean.
This is like post-Sunday.
I cleaned up on Sunday.
This is clean.
You were like, I got to straighten up.
We got a podcast to do here.
Let's get serious.
All right.
So we haven't spoken since our last podcast.
And I feel like it's been one of those weeks where a whole lot of shit has happened.
It's almost like, you know, you're like, wait, where did we leave off exactly?
And where can we pick back up again?
I'll say the rioting seems to have hit its apex and started calming down a little bit since last we spoke.
It was just getting started and then it really got pretty intense and crazy and seems to be calming down a little bit.
So that is good.
And at least people finally got out there to prove that coronavirus wasn't real because we've been hearing about it for months.
And then people went to the beach and they were like, shame on you.
You're going to kill everybody.
And then they went out to do acts of violence and burns down buildings.
And people like, you're an asshole if you stay at home.
So, you know, at least they found a cause that was okay to get out of the house for and prove that this is fake.
And not just okay, but medically approved.
I got to say, this has got to be up there.
Man, I'm going to struggle to find the words for this one because I love talking about how the system is all full of shit.
And look, here's this beautiful contradiction right here.
And this kind of proves that they're full of shit.
But I've never seen anything in my life that quite gives me the feeling that seeing epidemiologists and healthcare professionals say, hey, guys, it's okay to go protest because racism is so bad.
But not the economy.
Everyone losing their jobs.
And guess what?
I'm sure if I had to guess, you think African Americans lost more jobs than white people because of the kind of labor that they do?
I wonder.
I would think with factory work and that kind of stuff, but I don't know.
I'm saying that as a theoretical, that'd be an interesting number to see as they now go, hey, there are things more important than life or death.
And it's not the economy.
It's not people not committing suicide because they don't have jobs anymore.
It's not starving families.
It's not increased reliance on the government.
It's not that we're going to have to give all of the money that's ever been in existence over to the banks.
Or just the fact that civil liberties are being encroached upon in an unprecedented way.
Like that's not a good enough thing to protest over.
We have to go march against statistical inaccuracies.
That's what we need.
But there is, I mean, it's unbelievable to see these scientists who all we've been hectored about for the last months was you got to listen to them.
You got to follow the science.
You have to listen to the experts.
Now, some brave, intelligent people like Tom Woods, who's, I just recorded another episode with Tom Woods the other day, if you haven't checked that out.
He just posted it.
But he was saying, he was making the point, and others were too, but that he was saying that, look, like epidemiologists, virologists, they might be able to tell you, they have a field of expertise, you know, and they can give their thoughts and explain to you what their projections are and things like that.
Okay, fine.
But when they start dictating policy, like when they start saying, well, this is why we need to shut the economy down, you're like, well, you know, you're not really like you, just because you're an epidemiologist, you're not an expert in weighing out the costs and benefits of different government policy.
But this is next, next level.
Now you're saying it's okay, even though we locked down the whole country, even though we told you you couldn't go out, you're still not allowed in lots of parts of the country, including where I am right now, to go about life as normal.
But you can go 100,000 deep in a protest against racism because racism is that bad or police brutality is that bad.
Now, I'm sorry, you have no position of authority from which to speak on that issue.
Also, just in terms of this idea of, listen, you have to, the scientists said it, we're saving lives here.
How dare you question it?
Their track record of lying when it comes to models and the information that they're putting forward is horrendous.
And the idea that you're not allowed to have critical thought or question it is the ultimate of mind control.
Did you see what happened last week with it was even in the New York Times.
They retracted the big piece that came out on hydroxychlorine.
Oh, no, I didn't see that.
Yeah, so maybe I did.
Go ahead.
Okay, here's the broad stroke on this.
There were like three doctors that were on this article, and that was like the big piece that was being used to say hydroxychlorine is absolutely not good for Coronin.
It's dangerous to use.
One of the professors on it finally said that the other people wouldn't give over any of their research information.
And so he needed his name to be taken off the study.
And then when they did like a second look at it, they realized that most of the information that the other scientists were using had been fabricated.
It was like hospitals that like grossly fabricated.
And so much so that the New York Times even had to go, hey, guys, we really got to take a look at what we're doing here, that these models that are totally, totally, not just fabricated.
It was fabricated evidence that, oh, this was being put forward by scientists.
And then it's going to come out more and more, but this early COVID model that said there was going to be all these deaths, it came from this one institute.
And I think it's the same guy who got like SARS wrong, got mad cow disease wrong, a ton of shit wrong.
But listen, that's what the scientists say.
You can't question this stuff.
Yeah, it's really, I mean, this stuff is being exposed all over the place.
But there's just something, there's something about the scientists who we have to listen to now saying that this protest is okay and even going out and marching with them and taking knees with them.
And it's like, okay, look, if you're a scientist and you're, can you at least like, can you put forward an argument for why racism or police brutality is so bad that it's worth essentially undoing everything we've been doing for the last few months.
I mean, let's say this COVID thing still is a really big threat.
It's going to kill a lot of people.
I mean, you're going to have to scientifically take me through the numbers of cops killing black people, explain to me why this is worth the risk here.
There is, look, I'm just making the point.
Let's just say for the sake of argument, I grant you that COVID is every bit as bad as they thought it was.
I grant you that racism and police brutality is every bit as bad as they say it is, right?
Like, let's just say all of that is true.
Still, how exactly do you get to come out and say, oh, this is you going to church doesn't mean as much as this.
That's not important enough that you can risk COVID, but a protest is.
Like, what?
How do you get to make that decision for people?
How do you get, you know, I had this one guy posted the other day that I just saw, and this is just one story.
And I've heard, you know, I've heard dozens and dozens, but there are millions of stories like this.
But this one guy is like, his wife was pregnant.
At one point, she got very ill and it looked like they were going to lose the baby.
And she had to go into the doctor's appointments alone.
He wasn't allowed to go in with her.
Now, who can tell me that that's not worth the risk?
That that's not important to be there with your wife holding her hand, quite possibly as she finds out that you've lost the baby.
Now, by the way, thank God the baby was okay.
But just like something like that, the epidemiologists are going, no, you can't go do that.
But you can go 100,000 deep in protest for racism because that's worth the risk.
You can't go to church.
You can't run your business.
There was one kid that his father, who I might have mentioned this on the podcast, he was talking about his autistic son who was in this special school and had made tremendous progress.
And then they closed down the school and basically he completely reverted and all his progress was lost.
And this is an autistic kid.
He's probably a libertarian.
So we lost one of our own that day.
But I make light of it.
But it's a very serious thing.
I mean, it's tragic.
And for you to just sit there and say, oh, that's not important, but this protest is.
I'm going to need to see how you're determining that, not just say, because racism is so bad.
You know what prevents more of these George Floyd incidents than anything?
Economic prosperity.
People commit crime either because they're desperate or because there isn't that much risk on the plate for them to go to prison.
If there's economic prosperity and people have opportunity to do well in their lives, they're not going about doing crazy crimes.
And then guess what?
You end up in an environment where police can't like really treat people this way because everyone's kind of got money and people with money have power and they've got lawyers.
And so you can't put your foot on the back of their neck.
So like, you want to know how we end up in a pathway where everyone's at war with the cops?
It's when everyone's got to steal because there's no money and because government paychecks aren't showing up on time or people have been stuck in their house so long, they're going outside to loot and they're pretending that it's got something to do with a political cause.
So it's like the fact that it's, I mean, that's shameful.
The scientists should be like taking the stake for that, that they said that we have to shut down everyone.
We have to shut down the economy for death.
But then they prioritize, well, if it's a race issue, then we don't like that.
That's despicable.
The amount of harm that comes from an economic downturn will dwarf anything that could possibly happen because of a couple.
Now, I'm not saying racist cops are okay, but I'm saying if you want to evaluate risk and life and how we're prosperous for everyone, minorities included, then the scientists are fucking dumb.
We shouldn't listen to them on anything.
Yeah.
Oh, look, I mean, I'm as against the police state, the militarized police.
I mean, like, look, go policy for policy.
I'm against all victimless crimes being enforced.
I'm against all nonviolent crimes bringing down police violence on them.
I'm against qualified immunity and I'm against civil asset forfeiture.
I'm against the war on drugs.
I mean, there's like a million reforms I would have.
I'm not, if you're talking about things that are worthy of being against, I think protesting the cops or speaking out against the cops, sure, I mean, that's like a legitimate thing to be outraged by.
I'm just not okay with hearing doctors tell me that suspending the Bill of Rights is not okay to protest, but police brutality is.
And only when it's through a racial lens.
Like, excuse me, what the fuck is going on here?
That's a very weird thing for the experts to be telling you.
It's like, well, how about if the police brutality is in the form of police arresting people for going to church or temple, or if it's in police enforcing lockdowns?
I can't protest that police overreach.
I can only protest police overreach when they killed an unarmed black man.
Like, what if in the middle of the lockdown, we wanted to have a Duncan Lemp march?
I don't think that would have been viewed the same way.
You know what I mean?
It's like, why are you playing these fucking racial identity politics games that the Democrats are playing?
I thought you're a fucking doctor.
Like, why are you coming at this from a clearly ideological political point of view in ideology, which I do not agree with?
So, like, fuck that.
No, I'm sorry.
That shit has to be called out.
It shows the agenda behind this whole thing.
And what it comes down to is what Rothbard said in, what's the little pamphlet one that you gave me a million years ago?
Anatomy of the State.
Anatomy of the State.
Yeah.
It's that it's favorable and it's profitable to have the opinions that the state and the media wants.
And so the experts that we're hearing from, it's not necessarily the true experts.
It's not the people with the best opinions.
It's the ones that it favors the politicians and the people in powers they want to report.
And so this is a pretty clear example of the agenda that is something as clear as they said, you can't go outside.
It's going to be death.
And even if that means your business is going to go under, your grandparents are going to be miserable.
You're going to be miserable.
It doesn't matter.
It's death out there.
And against death, shutting down the economy into going in debt and ruining your business is the most important thing.
Wait a second.
Not if there's a race issue.
If there's a race issue.
Well, that's not a science evaluation.
It's despicable.
It just shows the agenda of the whole thing.
It's outrageous.
I remember, I know I've mentioned it on the show before, but it was my favorite little clip of Noam Chomsky when he was being interviewed by, and Noam Chomsky is like a lefty, but he's a real anti-war guy.
He's not one of the acceptable lefties, but he's brilliant.
And he's being interviewed by some mainstream media guy.
And he says, he was saying something about how the media in America is more, you know, toes the line more than state-run medias under dictatorships.
And the guy goes, he's like, oh, that's pretty insulting.
He goes, so are you saying I don't really believe the things I'm saying?
Like, I'm lying and these aren't really my opinions.
And Noam Chomsky goes, oh, no, I'm not saying you're lying at all.
I'm sure you believe everything you're saying.
Bullshitting Federal Reserve Claims00:12:44
My point is if you didn't believe that, you wouldn't be here.
And it's just like a great little point where he's like, oh, no, no, no, I'm not saying you're lying at all.
You're probably telling the exact truth.
But if someone didn't believe what you believe, they wouldn't be sitting where you sit.
And that's kind of the way the whole thing works.
No, I mean, look, I just, the thing that's so crazy is that it's so close.
It's two weeks after they're saying, look at these kids on the beach.
They're not wearing masks.
Oh my God, these kids in the beach.
And then all of a sudden it's okay to protest.
Now, you can say, I understand, separate for a second.
You as a person can say, well, going to the beach is stupid, but protesting police brutality is really important.
Okay, that's your value judgment.
By the way, if you're a libertarian or you believe in human liberty, it doesn't matter what your value judgment is.
You don't get to enforce that on other people.
Somebody else might, because you don't know, life is more complicated than that.
Someone else might had a really fucking, you know, horrific two months.
Both their parents lost their job.
They're not going to school.
Maybe they were really depressed.
Maybe they really needed that day on the beach.
You don't know.
You don't know what's going on in other people's lives.
But you can feel that way.
You can feel going to the beach is stupid and protesting is really noble and important.
But that has nothing to do with COVID.
COVID does not have that opinion.
COVID doesn't go, ah, you know, this police brutality is really out of control.
We'll stop spreading for you guys.
Like, no, I'm sorry.
If the whole thing was we have to all give up everything, it can't be then you can go 100,000 deep into major cities.
Sorry.
That doesn't make any sense, particularly when those cities still aren't open.
They're going into cities where they're talking about the new normal.
And maybe in some of them, restaurants could be open at 50% capacity.
A lot of them, like in New York City, restaurants still aren't open.
So it's just, it's mind-boggling that they would like even try to play it this way.
And it was amazing to watch the media just drop COVID concerns overnight, seemingly.
I mean, not even seemingly.
I posted that video of, did you see, I post this, but it was the video of it was an MSNBC reporter who calls out a guy at the beach.
He's like, this guy here doesn't have a mask on.
This was one week before the protest started.
They were calling people out.
This guy doesn't have a mask on.
And did you see it?
It was the most beautiful thing ever.
And he turns right over to the camera and he goes, your cameraman doesn't have a mask on either.
And it was like, oh, okay, whatever.
But like, that's some really deceptive shit right there.
When they're calling someone out, he's standing in front of three people who don't have masks on.
He's not worried about them.
You start to realize these people are bullshitting, man.
There's a lot of lying going on here.
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All right, let's get back into the show.
Anyway, you know something?
So I mentioned I was on Tom Woods' show, and he said something to me that really kind of threw me for a loop a little bit.
And I was like, huh, you know, I never really thought about it like that.
And then I started thinking about it more and more.
And I was like, I think he might really be on to something.
And maybe I always did kind of feel this way and just never really, you know, verbalized it or thought of it, you know, directly.
It was kind of in the back of my mind.
But he just simply said, he goes, you know, I think protests are stupid.
It's like, I think the whole thing is stupid.
And he was like, that's not to say that causes are stupid.
Your cause might be really good.
He goes, I just think protesting is kind of stupid.
It's like, I'm against the Federal Reserve, but if I were to stand outside the Federal Reserve with a sign, I would just feel kind of stupid.
Like, what is this?
And I was really thinking about it and I was like, you know, I think I might agree with that.
I remember going to a couple protest type things.
Like when I first started part of the problem, I think I've told the story before, but one of the things I went to was a protest about Khalif Browder, who was that kid.
It's a horrific story who they held in Rikers for like three years and never gave him a trial and then ultimately just dropped the charges because they couldn't put a case together.
So they just held this kid for years and he got like, it was horrible.
He tried to kill himself multiple times in Rikers.
He ended up killing himself after he got out.
And he was just broken by the situation.
It was just horrible.
Like the worst story you could imagine.
And so I was like, yeah, I mean, I'm a libertarian.
I'm as against that as anyone.
I'll go to that.
And I went there and it was a very like, it was like before Black Lives Matter was a thing, but it was very Black Lives Matter type protest.
And there was a lot of people passing out like socialist literature and Black power literature and stuff.
And I remember just being like, yeah, this is not exactly my scene.
But I do remember also just feeling kind of stupid.
Like I remember like holding up a sign and taking pictures with it.
It's like, this is kind of stupid.
And I'd much rather go do a podcast on this.
I'd rather go talk about this and talk to, you know, people who are listening in an in-depth way and go through why I'm against this and what's wrong about it, what we could maybe do about it.
It just seemed like a different energy.
And I was thinking about this more and I was like, man, I guess I've never really sat down and examined this.
But what is a protest?
Like, what exactly are you doing?
What is the energy?
Because it's not, it's not using logic and reason to try to convince someone of your argument, right?
Like, that's not what a protest is.
It's a mob mentality.
You're going to be chanting a slogan.
You're going to be walking through the streets.
What is that?
Like, what exactly are you doing?
What are you trying to accomplish?
Is it a show of intimidation?
Is that the idea?
I mean, it's not saying we can beat you at the ballot box.
That's, you know, you could take a poll and do that, right?
It's not saying we can convince you with our superior ideas.
For that, you'd have to have a conversation.
You'd have to make intellectual points.
You'd have to persuade people.
That's not going to be done with a chant, right?
So what exactly is a protest?
Is it?
And I'm just asking this question.
I'm really not asking this question in like a, I'm leading you in a direction.
I'm just, but is it just supposed to be like a veiled threat?
Like a kind of like, look, there's this many of us.
Watch what the fuck you do.
We're marching now, but this doesn't have to always be marching.
I'm just wondering.
Like, I don't know.
What is that?
Seems weird.
I listen, I haven't gone out and protested, but I think, you know, at the top of this, he said, I'd rather do a podcast.
I think we're lucky to have that platform.
And we're really lucky because like, dude, I remember before I did this show four years ago, sometimes I'd be out of date and just like be trying to convince some nice chick who thought she was buying a drink about how the Federal Reserve is ending the world.
And that's happened to me.
We go out, we meet the fans.
They don't get to talk about this shit.
And like, they just chew your ear off.
And you're like, I get it, man.
You're excited about it.
So a lot of these people, you know, they're outraged about what's going on.
And so I think in some ways it's nice for them to be able to be around other people that are outraged.
And I do think that there's something to be said for most people are lazy.
Like that's the honest truth.
Most people are lazy.
And so it does send a message of a lot of people are getting out of their homes to go, hey, we're outraged about this.
It does, I think, force the hand of politicians to at least placate to them and say, hey, we're going to make.
And the numbers do make a difference.
If you get 10,000 people that hit the streets to go, you know, the Hebrew Israelites going, I don't think the Jews should be considered the Jews anymore.
People, all right, there's 10,000 of them, or you get the 5,000 Nazis.
Oh, thank God.
Take the heat off of us for a little.
But I'm just saying you get 100,000 people there, or you get a million people, which I don't think has ever happened showing up to Washington, D.C.
They realize, like, oh, wow, there's really a consensus for this.
And then it builds momentum.
It's like, you know, you're building the show.
More people show up.
More people show up and they're congregating.
They're getting into it.
People are like, I mean, half of from what I understand, some of the Vietnam protesting was that the hot hippie chicks were out there.
So the dudes were like, well, that's where the hot hippie chicks are.
Let's go fucking protest.
And there's something to that.
But that still sounds stupid.
Like, that doesn't.
You're not convincing me that this is some noble effort.
I think that people feel very good about themselves.
They get very self-congratulatory.
They get to say, we did something, but what did you actually do?
You walked down the street chanting something.
Like, what am I missing?
What does that do?
Why is that a thing to do?
So that becomes the question, whether or not protests are effective.
And if you got to look at a world perspective or a history perspective, I got to think protests have maybe not in the United States, but like, did the protests in Egypt end up with an overthrown government?
Like, but those weren't protests, dude.
No, listen, but that's okay.
So that's the point I'm getting to.
If it is, no, that is effective in causing change.
Sure.
If you're out there, like, we're ready to drag you out of your fucking palace and rip you apart.
Sure.
This is how, you know, like governments have been toppled.
I don't know if I'd call those protests, but that's almost my point I'm making.
Is the protest in a sense a veiled threat that we're not too far away from that?
Like maybe we're just walking with 100,000 people right now, but we're kind of intimidating you into being like, look, we're this angry about this.
So you better fucking change this or else.
And I'd say yes.
If that's the case, right?
If that is the case, then in some ways, it does kind of provide a justification for violence because that's the whole point of this thing is letting you know, hey, we're fucking ready to get violent with this.
So I'm just saying you could almost see where other people would take that and go, well, fuck just chanting something.
Let's start throwing fucking bricks and really scare them into changing their policy.
I'm just kind of thinking about this shit.
I'm not even like taking a strong that, you know, I suppose I could be on board if it was a cause that I believe in or something like that, you know, like I suppose.
And look, of this protest, I certainly am sympathetic to some of the complaints that people have.
I think there are real problems with the police.
I don't know if I if I agree completely with the race-based narrative, which seems to be pretty dominant in the protest.
I definitely, it's an understatement to say I don't agree with the robberies and vandalism and assaults and looting and all that shit.
As I've covered already, I'm disgusted by all of that.
But one of the things, and this will be a transition.
I'm just going to guess, by the way, on that, the protest doesn't necessarily have to.
I think there can be that strategy where it's like, listen, we're letting you know, work together, we're united, and you keep pushing this.
There's going to be more of us.
We're going to be violent.
But there can be the peaceful protest thing where it's like, we're going to let it be known that you're the evil people here.
All of us object to what you're doing.
And so under no certain terms, if you continue doing this, can it be looked at as any other way that you're being evil and imposing upon us?
Defunding Police Anarchy Ideas00:17:03
And politicians who have to play this game of pretending like they're representing us, at some point, they either have to make the accommodations or they have to acknowledge that they're living in a reality where they're imposing upon us.
And so you are creating a tangible cost to them of, hey, listen, we're coming out here and we're making it very, we're making it very vocal that we've got a problem with what's going on.
Now, we're not going to be violent, but we want to be very vocal.
We've got a problem with this.
Now the move's on you.
It does leave it to them to go, all right, we're going to accommodate them or we've just made it very clear that we're not here to serve them.
Okay, fair enough.
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All right, let's get back into the show.
So one of the things that I've seen over the last few days get a lot of traction.
And I must say, I think it is intellectually the most interesting part of all of these protests so far has been this push to defund the police.
This hashtag was trending for the last couple days.
It looks like in Minneapolis, there's actually some energy behind a real push to defund the police.
Now, of course, as an anarchist, this makes my ears perk up a little bit and go, ooh, now that's actually an interesting idea.
It's fascinating that people on the left have almost, you know, gotten to a place where they've resorted to this idea, which is really a kind of anarchist idea of just defunding the police.
The most extreme part of anarchism is people go, well, what about the police?
Yes.
So if you take it, yeah.
That's right.
They jumped over Milton Friedman and Ayn Rand and started with the most contentious aspect of Rothbardian anarchism.
Not even like no talk.
I mean, these are the same people that if you said, like, I think we should, you know, defund the Department of Education.
If you I think we should defund the Department of Wildlife Research or whatever.
And they'd be like, what?
You can't defund it.
But they went right to cops.
This is like the thing that hardcore libertarians can't get past.
Like a lot, there's a lot of hardcore, hardcore libertarians who are like, yeah, but we still need the police.
You know, like that.
So it's, it's interesting to see that.
Now, I must say, the first thing that popped into my head was that I think it is very unlikely that we're going to see anything come of actually defunding the police for several reasons.
Did you see, firstly, they bitched out that mayor real good, and we can get into that.
Oh, yeah.
But if they were smart, they would go, yeah, we're defending, we're defunding the police, and then they would do the grand reopening.
Like every story you've ever seen that went out of business and then did a grand reopening.
Hey, we've got a new manager.
Hey, we're using the guns that only fire the beanbags now.
And look, we repainted the cop cars.
When Time Warner just became Spectrum, like something like that, you go, we're not police anymore.
Welcome to law enforcement.
You know, just something different.
The same.
It's a totally new experience from cable.
Those guys who ripped you off and cheated you, we're not even cable anymore.
We're a bigger thing.
We're a digital entity.
We're the freedom and group organizers of Minnesota.
Like, man, these people are way more fucking violent.
You go, oh, yeah, we, we defunded the police.
Us?
No, we're spectrum.
We just, we have badges and guns and we kill black people.
But we're, we call ourselves spectrum.
So there shouldn't be any problem with this.
So like, right, like there is this weird.
Now, I'll say this, right?
So I do, it seems to me to be a long shot of an idea.
That doesn't mean it's wrong.
Everything I want to see happen is a long shot and I believe in it.
So whatever.
But I did, just politically speaking, I go, oh man, this has got to be a huge gift to Donald Trump.
Like they just can't allow Donald Trump to lose.
They have every opportunity where it's like, oh, Donald Trump's going to lose here.
And now you're telling me in the middle, like you're telling me that the silent majority, as they're known, is going to sit back watching mobs destroy cities and then go, hey, let's get rid of cops.
Like, really, how is that really going to play?
Aren't most regular people going to look at this and go, that's kind of the last line of defense.
And if it wasn't for them, the cities would be burning up all over the country, even more so than they are.
Now, by the way, that again, not saying that it's not even a good idea to defund police.
In fact, I'm interested.
I'm very interested in the idea.
But it's just, I'm just thinking how this is going to play to normie America.
And I can't imagine that's going to be something that they go.
Look, if I was trying to, one of the things, I've talked about this before on the show.
I think Hans Hermann Hoppe said this in a speech that he gave a couple of years ago, but he was basically saying that libertarians, like anarcho-capitalists, Rothbardian libertarians have a beautiful philosophy.
And he's like, this is like the most brilliant political philosophy that's ever been devised by man.
Like it's understanding of economics, society, law, morality, all these things.
It's perfect.
And he kind of goes through it briefly.
And he goes, but the questions that libertarians generally don't have great answers on is how do we get from where we are now to a libertarian society?
And if we were to get a libertarian society, how do we maintain a libertarian society?
And the truth is, I think that we've been so far from that that we're just trying to spend our time convincing people that that is the goal rather than trying to even, you know what I mean, think about like, well, how do we actually get there?
And that's, that is in many ways a more challenging question.
But if I were to talk about how to get to an anarcho-capitalist society or even a more libertarian society, I doubt the first step I would pitch to normie America would be, let's get rid of police tomorrow.
Like even me as an anarcho-capitalist, I go, well, we kind of got to have got to have a little bit of time.
We got to set up some systems.
We have to, you know what I mean?
Like we have to have some type of private arbitration, some type of private court systems.
We have to have private defense agencies and all this stuff.
But okay, you don't always get to pick how you transition into something.
So whatever.
Now, a lot of right-wing people are naturally knee-jerk.
Like, this is the most batshit, crazy left-wing proposal I've ever heard.
And I will say, I sympathize with them.
I understand where they're coming from.
I understand if you're not reading a lot of anarchist literature and you're just seeing violent crime and then people saying, We got to get rid of the cops, that you'd go, well, as bad as the cops may be, it's better than nothing.
I get where they're saying.
However, on the other side, I really wonder how much people on the left who are advocating defunding the police, how much have they really thought this through?
And are they actually okay with what the implications of that would be?
So I, you know, I've talked to some people on Twitter.
Like I've gone back and forth with a few people.
One thing that I think is really interesting is that if you, they like to say defund the police, but what does that mean?
I mean, it essentially means abolish the police, right?
If you're talking about defunding something, then you're, you're abolishing it.
There's no more money for them.
So that's.
You let them earn their own money by really ticketing cars and walking around and taking wallets.
They just got to fund themselves, man.
Well, that's, that's interesting, but I mean, like, are you, is that kind of what you're like, like, let's be clear about the details of this plan, which I don't think people on the left are who are advocating that have been clear, but I think it's important.
But, you know, so like, if you're saying we're going to abolish the police, right?
Which is the same thing as defunding them.
I mean, essentially, right?
And they've talked about some ideas.
Well, we could have like community watch, you know, neighborhood watch kind of type things that will police around and stuff like that.
It's like, okay, but how, like, like take me through this.
How exactly are you planning on doing this?
And are you actually okay with all of the implications?
Now, by the way, if you were to say, they don't really like to say abolish the police, although I have heard a few in that video that you talked about with the mayor of Minneapolis getting, you know, kicked out during the walk of shame.
The black woman who was yelling at him, she did say, huh?
Get that lady to run every debate ever.
Oh my God.
I want a yes or no.
Yes or no.
And if you give the wrong answer, we're kicking your ass out of here.
Yeah, no, but that was great.
She fucking pinned him like, I want a yes or no on this one.
He was an idiot for showing up to that thing.
It was a cheap police rally.
It was so funny, though.
He thought he could spout a couple milquetoast progressive lines and the crowd would be on his side.
And then he'd be the hero for coming down there.
And he tried to put his best, you know, passionate political speech.
And I'm outraged by the racism in our society.
And then, nope, sorry.
Biggest mistake was he wasn't even on the stage.
So he was like placating to them with like almost one knee down, like, please accept me.
And they're like, well, we'll accept you, but you got to take this radical line.
And of course he can't say I'm going to take, you know, unless he went with mine.
The thing is that really, it's like, you know, I think that it's funny because we live in a space where we've thought about these type of issues for a long time in abstractions and in hypotheticals.
Like we've been like, okay, well, what?
How theoretically, if this were to work this way and there wasn't the government, how could the market take care of this?
And a lot of these people just haven't.
So they haven't thought about all of this.
And I've seen it even a couple of them get questioned.
They're like, oh, but what do you do if somebody like murders somebody else?
And they're like, well, that's an interesting question.
Yeah, that's something that we have to think about.
But, you know, the cops are so racist.
And it's like, well, you got to have an answer.
You can't just say, oh, what if someone murders themselves?
I mean, you should have something, you know, to say about that.
So anyway, you're like, okay, so you want to abolish the police.
Now, I'll tell you what they don't like to say.
You can say defund the police.
Some of them even say abolish that woman.
The reason I brought her up is because she did say, We don't want no cops no more.
That was her line.
Like, we don't want any cops.
So, I think she's okay with abolish the police.
But you know, it'll really piss them off is if you say privatize the police.
Now, that they don't like.
They're like, wait, what?
Private?
No, We can't have any cops.
And you're like, okay, well, how about protection, defense?
You know what I mean?
Like, obviously, if you abolish the police, there's going to be a market for protection.
Now, what's happening right now, now, now a lot of stores have security guards, a lot of people have security, but in general, the cops are kind of there right now as this monopoly security force.
If someone steals from you, you can call the cops.
If someone assaults someone, you can call the cops.
Now, they don't do a great job and they are aggressive themselves a lot, but people still do have that there as like this security blanket.
So, obviously, if you remove that, there's going to be a big market for people like, okay, well, I can't call the cops anymore.
I need more security.
I need more defense.
I need, right?
I mean, this is just obviously going to happen.
So, whether you like the word or not, that's what you're doing is privatizing it.
By the way, of course, I'm all for that.
I think that's a great idea.
But I wonder if people on the left are actually thinking through the implications.
What you're talking about is anarchism.
Now, I'm all for that.
I'm an anarchist.
This is what I want.
But I'll be interested to see as people on the left start to actually think this through.
Look, lots of examples that you can think of, but like gun laws, they're all gone, right?
I mean, if you abolish the police, there are no more gun laws.
You can have the law, but there's fucking, there's no one to enforce it.
So it's essentially basically me and you are the same as the government if there's no cops.
So none of you are allowed to have guns anymore.
I mean, I just said that.
That's a law, but that's not going to be enforced.
So who cares, right?
So now it's just what is the state, you know, resorted to just saying things.
How are you going to enforce every little fucking, I don't know, restaurant code violation?
I mean, it's weird that the same group of people who were just lecturing everybody about how you have to stay inside are now going to say no more of these government rules.
Now, I think that would be amazing, but I'm just, it's interesting to see how this is going to play out as the people advocating for defunding the police, if this gets any traction, which I'm not sure it will, but if it does, I think they're going to be staring in the face of what the implications of all of that will be.
The other just issue with these kind of more emotional-based decisions is that if they go that route, you're going to get footage of some private security guard doing something that's equally as horrendous as the cops.
You're going to have an incident of the white neighborhood protecting its area or the black neighborhood protecting its area or now gangs taking over private security.
Whatever it is, you're going to have some fallout.
And the overall structure might turn out to be way better or might take a year before it's better.
But the point is, everything's got risk to it.
And when you highlight the risk, or if you highlight one person getting struck by lightning, people might all of a sudden get really scared.
Like, shit, I better not go out in a lightning storm.
People get struck by lightning.
So it'd be interesting to see that first terrible event and how quickly everyone's like, well, we need some fucking police in this area.
Well, look, I mean, one of the things that I'm most outraged about the police response to all of this, the rioting that's been going on.
And it's like, look, and don't get me wrong.
And I know there's, you know, there were a few people who have given me shit over my last couple of episodes.
And I understand where, you know, people go like, well, you should be criticizing the police for X, Y, and Z.
And it's like, look, I always criticize the police.
I will continue to.
It seemed like the more, and I mean, seemed like I think it was, the more important thing to criticize while cities are being burned down are the people burning them down.
Because that in the moment seemed to be the bigger, you know, violation of liberties, at least at that moment.
But the thing that's so outrageous about the cops is that you see all of these images about them.
They're like pushing old men down on the ground.
They're slamming, they're slamming women on the ground.
They're doing, they're pepper spraying people.
Like the peaceful part of the protest gets the iron fist of the cops.
And then when they're looting these fucking stores, they step back and let them fucking do it.
They stand down to the mob and stand up to the protesters.
And on top of all of that, they've, at least in New York City and a lot of these other cities, they've essentially disarmed the population, right?
Lucy Nicotine Quit Solution00:03:45
So they're all disarmed because you can do decades in prison if you don't have a permit, which is next to impossible to get in New York City, for example, and lots of other cities.
And then you're really tied down what you can do.
Like, I don't know what the what the laws exactly are.
It's like state by state, but I know in New Jersey, you have to, if someone breaks into your house, you can't just shoot them.
Like you, if you shoot someone in New Jersey, you have to demonstrate that you were defending your life.
So them just breaking into your house and taking your shit, that's not enough.
So my point is that a lot of the resistance to aggression is really, really handcuffed by the state and the enforcement wing of the state, which is the cops.
So I'm just saying, you get rid of all that.
Here's what's going to happen.
I mean, this is just, I can guarantee you, this is what would happen if you defunded the police.
Gun sales are going to go through the fucking roof.
People realize there's not someone right on the other line with guns that I can call whenever I want to.
So they'll go through the fucking roof.
People are going to arm themselves.
And people are going to fucking start taking matters into their own hands.
And I don't think that's a bad thing, but I don't know if it's exactly what Black Lives Matter is going to be looking for once this comes in.
However, the benefit of it would be that, yes, you guys can police your own communities now and you don't have to, you know, and you can defend your own communities from outside invaders, which, you know, many of you see the cops as being.
I see the cops as being that as well.
I do think that right-wingers should seriously think through the implications of this policy and that there might be something you can come together here with.
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Power Grab Or Real Service00:15:18
You know, I've been arguing with people about this on Twitter because I posted this Murray Rothbard piece from For New Liberty about privatizing the police.
And, you know, it's funny to get the right-wing response from it because, you know, it's like all of these kind of defenses of a government monopoly.
And it's like, well, no, you can't have this because if this is left in private hands, then, you know, there'll be competing defense agencies and how will they work out their arrangements?
And the wealthy people will have good defense and poor people will have shitty defense.
And, you know, it's like, I'd say this, number one.
Isn't it a little bit strange that you are defending socialized defense?
Like, you know, in every other area, you'll be like, socialism just doesn't work, right?
Isn't that always kind of the standard right-wing talking point?
Socialism just doesn't work.
Well, look around.
Look at what's going on with policing in America.
I don't think it's working so well in this area either.
And if you're for the market in all of these other services, right?
Like all a million different services that we all use, we support there being a free market in those services.
Yet this one service you're saying needs to be provided by the state.
Well, why is that?
Is it because it's such an important service?
If it's such an important service, then wouldn't it be even more important to leave it to the best mechanism?
You know, like if it's if the most important service needs to be provided by the state, then why don't we just provide all services by the state since they do the best job at the most important thing?
Now, what is it?
Because it's a service of force.
Okay, but wouldn't having a monopoly on that by the government be kind of problematic as well?
Look, I just think that, you know, people, this is what would happen, right?
You'd have, like, this might be, listen, I don't think that the Black Lives Matter people have worked out a smooth transition to defunding the police.
But if they were to get it done tomorrow, there might be problems.
I'm not saying there wouldn't be, but you would have gun ownership go up.
You would have people start defending their own property.
And look, if it hasn't been made clear already, the cops aren't going to do that shit for you.
You wouldn't be relying on calling someone who's going to come hours after you're robbed and write a report and say there's nothing we can do to help you.
That's not going to happen.
You're going to have people defending their property right there on the spot.
It actually might do a lot to, you know, like control the violence much quicker.
And then you're going to have a huge market for defense protection, property protection, you know, all of these things.
And you're going to have companies come in and start competing and providing these services.
Now, you're going to get a lot of benefits of the market here.
First off, it's not going to be worth it for these private companies to spend their own money and time and resources on going after petty victimless crimes that don't affect anybody because they don't have like a tax pool to pull from.
They have to actually get their customers to pay them.
And they're also going to be accountable to their customers because that's where they get their money from.
They need their customers to pay them.
And I would just say that for a lot of people who, you know, there's a lot of these problems that people go like, oh, but what if like you have defense agency A and I have defense agency B and someone else has defense agency C and we all get into conflict and then all three of these defense agencies are called and what are they going to do?
Just go to war with each other?
And I would just say that this shit like that happens in the market every day and is peacefully solved and none of us even think about it.
I remember one example that Malice used that I just think is a great little like example for this.
He goes, it's like if you were sitting back in theory and you were going, well, what if you have AT ⁇ T and I have Sprint?
Now we just can't call each other.
We can't talk on the phone because you have one company and I have the other.
I mean, it couldn't work because they're different companies and who would pay the bill?
Who pays when someone from AT ⁇ T calls Sprint?
And the answer is, I don't know, but they figured it out because it was more valuable for everybody if your phone can call all phones.
It's just a better product than otherwise.
And so it's worth it for all of them to come together and figure it out.
And obviously, it would be a problem right away if you had competing security forces to go like, okay, well, obviously a situation could come up where you have to work with these guys.
And they just went, well, we don't do that.
Be like, well, that's not a very good security agency.
And someone else has said, oh, well, we'll call those guys and we'll work out a deal with them and we'll adjudicate it in a third party.
This shit happens all the time in business.
And I think very quickly this would be worked out and figured out.
I actually think a smooth transition would be very good.
And that doesn't seem likely.
But defunding the police, even right-wingers out there, I think you should think it through.
It might be a much better deal than you think.
Like my personal feeling is that the initial reaction from the left to defund the police is like, yeah, excellent idea.
And from the right, it's like you have to be bat shit insane.
And I understand where both of them are coming from.
But the more you think about it, I feel like the right wing would be like, oh, yeah, there's actually a lot in that for me.
And the left would be like, oh, I'm giving up a lot.
That's just my take.
Anything else?
Ian, I agree with everything you said.
I find one of the aspects interesting where they were even saying like, listen, we don't know what's on the other side of defunding the police, but we'll come up with something.
And the current system is so morally outrageous and is leading to an imposition force that's paroling, you know, patrolling our neighborhoods and killing us.
So that's just morally outrageous.
But that's so interesting to see because we've been on that side before where it's like, I don't know that I've got a perfect solution for you, but I know that this is morally outrageous.
So let's explore what else might be there.
So even though you'll never be able to explain to them in a different circumstance, well, you can see that this is a rational argument to go, let's explore a different option because the first one's morally outrageous.
Yeah.
You see what I'm saying?
Like they're not coming at this from a solution standpoint.
They're not going, hey, I got a perfect alternative solution.
They're just saying we can't do this anymore.
Yeah.
No, I just wonder, you know, like, no, listen, I actually do think that that is valid and that there's it's actually impossible for anybody to tell you exactly how every market solution is going to work out because it's a lot of people coming together and cooperating.
The thing is just that I wonder, maybe I don't want them to think this through.
Maybe I just want the left to go ahead with this and be like, yeah, yeah, no, I'm with you.
We'll figure it out.
It's just, it's hard for me to not wonder out loud.
Leftists, any leftists listening, I want you to plug your ears for a minute because I don't want you to hear this.
But it's like, do they realize?
It's like, okay, so how about the minimum wage?
I mean, that's not going to be enforced anymore, right?
How about every FDA regulation, every EPA regulation, every like everything.
How is any of this going to be enforced?
You're kind of giving up the whole big government thing, which would be really fucking amazing.
And I think that it would right away what I think the beauty of defunding the police, aka privatizing the police, which is all, it really is the same thing.
The beauty of it would be right away, you go, okay.
So, you know, whatever.
Let's say me and you are running like a business of some sort.
I mean, I guess we are, but let's say it's like a storefront or something like that.
And you go, okay, well, the police are gone.
So now we got to hire security and everybody's kind of in this situation.
Well, now all of a sudden we become voluntary consumers of a service rather than slaves forced into, you know, paying for a service.
So you'd right away go like, oh, okay, well, what do we need?
Well, what we need is to make sure people aren't murdered, raped, assaulted, and property isn't stolen.
That's like the need, you know, all these other little nonviolent crimes and bullshit regulations and all like that.
Are people really going to pay for that to be enforced if they're not forced to?
I highly doubt it.
I highly doubt it.
I just had a thought.
I'm betting that that lady, because she was kind of slick who was yelling at him.
I bet these are union people.
And what they're really advocating while they're saying to fund the police, here's what you'll end up seeing is, no, we want a community protection agency and we want the funds going here and there's going to be some sort of a union that you got to be accredited for and taxes are still going to be funding it.
It's probably more of a power grabber.
It's like what I was saying with the rebranding.
It's like, yeah, the police department's closing, but the new sheriff department, which is really only going to be people from our clan, you know, or our, you know, our union or our this, that's going to be the people that we're going to enforce within our community.
That's what the real, I'm going to guess.
And if they do, if they do something like that and they're still trying to enforce all these bullshit rules and they still have arresting power and they still have guns and they still have all of this, you're just a new police department.
Then, right, then you've basically accomplished nothing.
And then I think we're going to end up finding ourselves, you know, back in the same place because the truth is, at least this is my take, is that the problem with Black Lives Matter and the problem with so many of these protests is that they're just not focused on the real root of the problem.
And they think the problem is racism.
And you would think that there would be enough things to kind of signal that it's a little bit more than that.
I mean, it's like they know that it's racism and they know it's the system, you know?
That's why it's always like systemic racism and, you know, all of this shit.
But, you know, what was it like in Baltimore?
I remember when that Freddie Gray guy was killed in the back of the police van.
It was horrible.
What happened there?
They put him in there unrestrained and he broke his neck.
It's like a rough ride type thing.
And it was like the police chief was black and the mayor was black and the whole like community board was black.
And, you know, it's like, it's all black Democrats were like the dominant force there.
All that shit still happens.
It's not like so much of a race issue.
It's, it is a system issue, but it's a system of forced monopoly.
Like these people are kind of, you know, it's, they're in the business of enforcing the laws.
You have no choice who else you can have enforcing the laws.
And they can enforce whatever laws the politicians decree.
So they can be laws that initiate violence, or they can be laws that arrest peaceful people or whatever.
So if you don't cut that out, you're going to have the same problems.
And the fact that you're like, well, a disproportionate amount of black people are stopped or shot or anything.
Well, that's not going to stop if people are still enforcing.
The law in, in from, from a monopoly, because for for one, or possibly even in a market situation, for for one simple reason, which is that a lot of these high crime areas are black neighborhoods, and that's just a reality.
You know, I again I was getting some shit for talking about this on on the last episode and i'm just not, i'm sorry, i'm not gonna like, not tell the truth as I see it and uh, that's just, that's just not gonna happen.
But you know I, I was looking um, and I don't want to give too much information away, I won't name any names or anything because this is a private facebook group, but I was looking in the um, the Mises Caucus uh, of the, the Libertarian Party.
They have a facebook group and there was one person who we know is a friend of ours I won't say his name because again, this wasn't a private facebook group, I don't want to out anybody but he, he brought up the um, the disproportionate amount of crime committed by uh, black people compared to white people, and he was basically saying he was like well, you know, like a disproportionate amount of black people uh are, you know, shot by the police.
But if you look at the disproportionate amount of crime and the fact that they're more likely to be stopped by police.
It doesn't really seem to indicate that there's any racial.
You know the racism going on here.
That was more or less the point.
It was making something along those lines and I saw that and this is the Mises Caucus.
This isn't like these bullshit, like fucking fruitcake libertarians.
These are like the hardcore guys, you know.
And there was two different people in the in the chat who were going.
They were going, I don't, I don't think there's actually any uh evidence that there's more violent crime in the black community.
And people were like, well no, I mean, look at all of this evidence.
And they were like, oh well, you know, like whatever, you're just relying on on police reports.
The police don't know what they're talking about and like how many of these crimes are non-violent crimes that aren't, you know?
Like libertarians don't even consider crimes?
And they're like, no no no, we're talking about murder rape, violent assault, like these are the numbers.
It's like, you know whatever, like black people committed 52 of the homicides last year and they're 13 of the population, whatever the exact numbers are.
And this guy was like, yeah, but I don't know about that.
I mean white people probably commit these crimes and they just don't report them.
It's like no no no no, like look, here's the total number of of homicides, here's the total number of unsolved homicides.
Like you can look at all these numbers like it's not like people are just dropping dead and people are fucking ignoring not dropping dead, getting murdered and people are ignoring it.
Like, and it just kind of struck me that it's like, look, if you're, if you're saying you don't know if there are is a higher rate of violent crime amongst black people than white people.
It's really one of two things, either you are so ill-informed on this subject that you really shouldn't be commenting on it, because you haven't done the most basic you know research into this um, or you're just like lying because it's a more comfortable narrative and either way, you really shouldn't be commenting on on this stuff.
Look, you can believe and and I tend to that there are reasons for the high crime rate in the black community.
I don't think it's a uh, you know the color of their skin that makes them violent, or something like that.
And there's lots of nonviolent black people.
That's really great black people.
But there is a violent crime problem in the black community.
And everybody knows this.
I mean, maybe not everybody, but most people know this.
People who live in big cities definitely know this.
They know this.
There are very high crime areas that tend to be black neighborhoods.
And this is going to be a problem no matter what type of policing you have, whether it's from the state or it's private police or it's or you're just looking the other way, in which case that's going to be a problem on its own.
Colin Powell Neocon Types00:03:21
So now I do think repealing the war on drugs, there's a lot of things you could do.
I think abolishing welfare, I think a lot of those things would help the situation.
But ignoring that problem or denying that problem definitely isn't going to help that situation.
So anyway, back to the point you were making, if this is just a bullshit power grab and we just switch to a new police, if we just switch to spectrum, but it's still the cops, that's not, you know, that's not going to solve anything.
And that actually might be worse than just having some meaningful reforms, you know, just end qualified immunity, end the war on drugs, end civil asset forfeiture, and, you know, a bunch of like policing for profit and shit like that.
That might actually be way better than spectrum police.
I don't know.
Any thoughts?
We're going to burn it down.
Burn it all down.
Burn it down.
Nice indeed.
All right.
Well, listen, we're going to call that an episode.
Republicans.
What about them?
They're flipping parties.
It's starting a new pro-war party.
Well, listen, you're talking about Colin Powell and some of the Bush people coming out and endorsing Joe Biden.
Yeah, well, listen, that's something that's been happening since 2016.
And we're just seeing another chapter in that book.
The Never Trumpers are much more comfortable with the Warhawk Democrats than they are with Donald Trump.
And I know from a lot of libertarian perspectives, you're going to be like, well, we think Trump's a war hawk too.
And he is.
And he's continued a lot of wars and hasn't come through on his promises.
But you know, that's not really how these blood-soaked monsters look at it.
They're like, Trump hasn't gotten us in a new war.
And he's had opportunities too.
What's up with this guy?
You know, like, what is he, a Russian asset or something?
So they're fucking, you know, these people like Colin Powell, but the thing that, and I tweeted something to this effect the other day is it was like Mattis and Colin Powell and these people.
I go, the idea of these like fucking neocon types, and I maybe not by the literal definition, but you understand what I'm saying.
These like neocon types, the nerve of them to claim some moral high ground of like, oh, you know, I just don't, I think he's dividing the country.
I think Colin Powell said, I just, I think he lies too much.
He lies.
Colin Powell, who went to the United Nations to convince them that we had evidence beyond a shadow of a doubt that Saddam Hussein had mobile WMD sites and went there with diagrams and drew it out.
Wouldn't you think that guy at the very least would be shamed anywhere he went if he were to say, you know, I fucking, I'm just concerned about this guy lying.
Like, how could anyone even take him seriously?
The idea that these blood-soaked monsters are going to lecture anybody about what's good for the country, we need to unite the country.
No, we united around neocons after 9-11 and they ruined the 21st century.
So fuck you.
We don't need to unite around you guys.
I'd rather be divided than unite around neocons.
I'll say that.
Unite Around Blood Soaked Monsters00:00:34
All right.
There's our episode.
I love you, Robbie Bernstein.
Run your mouth podcast.
That's Rob's podcast.
If you're not listening to it, you have to.
If you're not following Rob on Twitter, it's at RobbieTheFire.
If you're not, you're just not doing life the right way.
So go check him out.
And I have a feeling sooner rather than later, me and you are going to be doing a show live together in the studio.
So we'll jump on the phone in the next day or two and figure that shit out.