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Jan. 10, 2025 - Human Events Daily - Jack Posobiec
48:19
How Washington Started the New Cold War w/ Scott Horton

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This is what happens when the fourth turning meets fifth generation warfare.
A commentator, international social media sensation, and former Navy intelligence veteran.
This is Human Events with your host, Jack Posobiec.
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It's being reported that President Biden has lifted restrictions on Ukraine using U.S. weapons to strike deeper inside Russia.
Bowling down to a Russian leader, I think it's outrageous, it's dangerous and it's unacceptable.
In the updated version of the document, aggression against Russia by any non-nuclear state, but with the support of a nuclear state, is proposed to be considered as their joint attack on Russia.
Russia will also consider the possibility of using nuclear weapons when receiving reliable information about a massive launch of means of aerospace attack and their crossing of our state border.
This includes strategic and tactical aircraft, as well as cruise missiles and drones, hypersonic and other delivery vehicles.
Russia reserves the right to use nuclear weapons in case of aggression, including if the enemy using conventional weapons poses a critical threat.
All right, Jack Posobiec, here we are, Human Events Daily.
Ladies and gentlemen, we are witnessing a defining moment in history.
President Trump, with his unyielding commitment to peace, is poised to end the war in Ukraine, a conflict that was never inevitable, but rather a consequence of years of geopolitical maneuvering.
Trump's strategy is clear.
Bring both sides to the negotiation table, leveraging his unique diplomatic style to forge an end to this tragedy.
Now let's not forget, this war didn't need to happen.
It was a direct result of actions and policies that have been largely ignored or misrepresented by the mainstream media.
The United States, through its covert operations in Ukraine, has played a significant yet under-discussed role in stoking the conflict.
The New York Times this year recently shed light on this, revealing a network of 12 CIA bases in Ukraine.
These weren't just outposts.
They were training grounds for Ukrainian operatives, including a satellite.
assassination teams aimed at quote countering Russian influence, but also have conducted in fact one general recently assassinations within Russia itself.
This kind of activity hidden in the shadows has undeniably contributed to the escalation Furthermore the expansion of NATO into Eastern Europe has been a provocative move one that the Russians have viewed as an encroachment on itself.
The promise of NATO membership for Ukraine was seen as a direct threat by NATO by Moscow Echoing the concerns of many Russian leaders since the Cold War's end Yet this narrative is seldom explored in mainstream discourse, which prefers to paint a picture of unprovoked aggression rather than a complex tapestry of cause and effect.
Trump's approach to this conflict isn't about perpetuating the cycle of blame or military engagement.
It's about negotiation.
His advisors have outlined plans where the current battle lines could potentially be frozen using both incentives and disincentives to compel both Ukraine and Russia to engage in a meaningful dialogue and would include, by the way, halting NATO membership for Ukraine in exchange for peace. halting NATO membership for Ukraine in exchange for peace.
It's called a pragmatic solution.
To truly understand how Trump might end the war, we first must grasp how it began.
And the seeds of this conflict were sown long before tanks rolled across Ukrainian soil.
They were planted with every covert operation, every diplomatic misstep, every strategic expansion, the CIA bases, the NATO enlargement.
These are not just footnotes.
They are chapters in the story of how we got here.
And Trump's return offers a chance to rewrite this narrative shift from a story of war to one of peace.
His administration's focus on negotiation over hostilities.
It reflects a desire to end not just the fighting, but the underlying situation that took place.
And ladies and gentlemen, we are going to understand that situation in full detail today.
Stay tuned as Human Events brings you the truth about Ukraine. - Today, you know, they talk about influencers.
These are influencers and they're friends of mine.
Jack Rusovic.
Where's Jack?
Jack.
He's done a great job.
All right, Jack Kosovic, we are back here on Human Events.
I want to introduce you to today's guest, and we're going to be going through the entire Ukraine story, maybe a couple other stories along the way with him.
It is Scott Horton from Antiwar.com and the author of the new book, You Gotta Get This Book.
You will read it in one sitting.
It will change the way that you look at American...
Modern history, possibly even past history, it has provoked how Washington started the new Cold War with Russia and the catastrophe in Ukraine.
He joins us now.
Scott, how are you?
I'm doing great.
Thank you so much for having me, Jack.
Great to be back with you.
Well, I think it's incredible, you know, because when you and I were first chatting about this, you know, the election was still kind of going on and, you know, we weren't sure who was going to win.
Now Donald Trump has won the election.
His administration is coming in and, you know, the anti-war.
So anti-war has become a huge watchword of MAGA, of America First.
It's something that J.D. Vance is talking about.
David Sachs is talking about.
Tucker Carlson's in there.
I myself, of course, talk about this all the time.
I think we really are, and you have really put this book out at the perfect time to give people a true understanding of what has gone on that got us into this big mess in the first place.
Yeah, well, I appreciate you and all the America Firsters efforts.
I mean, remember that?
That phrase comes from defend America first.
That's what it really meant.
That's the great book by Garrett Garrett.
I would agree with that, and I would submit to you that Ukraine also is not America's eastern frontier.
This is 7,000 miles even from Washington, D.C., and they've essentially just wandered into a neighborhood where they have no business and got their friend in a fight in the most unfair kind of a way is what's really happened here.
Now, Donald Trump has run on peace.
Remember in the debate, they said, don't you mean you want to help Ukraine win?
And he said, I want to end it.
It's too dangerous to allow the war to continue at all.
And Jack, I'm sure you must have heard him say this.
He talks about this from time to time over the decades he has.
That Donald Trump had an uncle who taught at MIT. The greatest uncle, the greatest scientist in the world.
And he taught Trump all about H-bombs.
In a way that a lot of us don't get a real education in nuclear weapons.
Well, Trump got a real education in nuclear weapons and he is rightfully terrified of them and rightfully has decided that it just doesn't make any sense for America to have.
A contest with Russia over something as trivial as the eastern border of Ukraine and especially when the American side did so much to cause the controversy in the first place.
There must be a way that we can ramp this thing down and have a negotiated settlement and guarantee to turn the risk of nuclear war way back down towards zero again.
And what's amazing is you've got nominees up there.
Obviously, J.D. Vance is coming in as the vice president, Pete Hegseth at SECDEF, Tulsi Gabbard as the DNI, as the director of national intelligence.
And the Wall Street Journal kind of ran this, you know, the neocons at the Wall Street Journal ran an attack piece on all of them saying Trump keeps appointing angry veterans of the global war on terror to his administration.
And I said, no, that's specifically what he said he was going to do, as a matter of fact.
There are people, by the way, who saw firsthand where this stuff can go, at least on just that level, on a kinetic level, not to mention a nuclear level.
And so I think it's perfect that it's actually people that have experienced war up front, these combat veterans saying, hey, guys, we need to pump the brakes on this stuff.
And I know less about the Secretary of Defense, but I can tell you about Tulsi Gabbard.
This whole controversy about her, they claim that she's pro-Russia and pro-Assad in Syria.
Well, all that happened, Jack, was she was in Iraq War II. She was stationed at the Balad Air Base north of Baghdad at a time when they were taking fire.
They call her a combat veteran, not because she was pulling triggers, but because she was getting shelled at the base where she was in a medical unit.
So I don't know particular anecdotes, but presumably she saw boys die in there who had been fighting the Sunni-based insurgency, the vanguard of which was Al-Qaeda in Iraq.
It was just a couple of years later that Barack Obama and the rest of the Washington Consensus, led by Senator McCain on the Republican side as well, said that, no, these guys are the moderate rebels.
We like them now.
John McCain even went and met with the Northern Storm Brigade, who had told Time magazine a month before he went and met with them that they were proud veterans of Iraq, where they had fought against America, essentially under Zarqawi as part of al-Qaeda in Iraq, against the Americans in Iraq War II.
But now in Syria, they're heroes because now they're fighting the Shiites.
And so that's what Israel wants.
And so that's what the American War Party wants.
And she's saying, I'm sorry.
I can still tell you the shirts from the skins.
And I'm not switching sides in this thing after what I've seen in Iraq.
So in other words, what was the difference between her and everybody else on the political scene at that time?
She knew what she was talking about.
And they were all just bluffing and going along with, well, I guess we're supposed to all say now Assad's a dictator and whoever's fighting him is a hero.
When people who know about it know that no, the people fighting him are not heroes at all.
They're the bad guys.
And at the very heart of it, I remember her saying that if Assad does leave, then whoever takes over in his place might potentially be a thousand times worse.
And she specifically pointed to these al-Qaeda Sunni groups.
And that's exactly who ended up or seems to at least have at this point stepped in to fill that vacuum.
I said, wait a minute.
Why?
And they say, oh, well, we should be very upset about this.
Wait, I'm trying to explain it.
I say this as a guy who's a former intel officer myself.
I say, you want me to be upset that she got it right and that the very thing that she said was going to happen is in fact what happened?
That sounds like someone who should actually be in charge, not punished for it.
Yeah, well, and you know, it's funny, man.
I read this thing in the New York Times.
That is just like a public relations piece.
It's even like the Ukraine stuff.
It's like you have all the facts, but they just tell you the story backwards or something.
Right.
Yeah, exactly right.
Exactly right.
So they just say, well, look, they emphasize that Jolani, the leader of al-Qaeda in Syria, is not as psycho as Baghdadi, the leader of ISIS. Oh, good.
That's so nice.
Fewer headchoppings.
It's very special.
It's so special.
But otherwise, they're exactly the same.
Who are these guys?
They are the Bin Laden.
He hasn't chopped off as many heads as Baghdadi.
He's far, far less.
By the way, I feel like when he did that CNN interview, the puff piece on him, that they...
They must have put him through, I guess, the same finishing school as Zelensky because he's got the beard, he's got the green fatigues, he's even using that clipped cadence.
There were some people online were making memes of Jelani and Zelensky together and said, man, it's like the same exact thing.
You know, back a few years ago, sort of in the meantime, between the worst of Obama's dirty war and the current one there now, there was a time when the Turks were...
Did a push with Frontline PBS, and they had Martin Smith, the famous producer from Frontline, do this puff piece on Assad.
And I had joked at the time, they must be listening to my show, because I would always say, listen, take one look at Assad, okay?
Just look at him, Your Honor, like on Idiocracy.
Just look at him.
He wears a three-piece suit.
He shapes his chin in the morning.
And that means that he's a secular dictator and not a Bin Ladenite suicide bomber.
And in this case, that's everything, okay?
And look at the other side.
The guy's got a turban and a beard, and he's dressed up like Bin Laden, and he sends legions of suicide bombers out to do suicide bombings and chop people's heads off.
And so that's the difference.
And then what do they do?
They literally dressed him up in a three-piece suit, including the vest and everything, and had him sit there.
He didn't shave his beard off.
They weren't going to do that.
But I bet they trimmed it anyway.
And they had him sit there and essentially say he's clearly under Turkish control, i.e.
American control, that, listen, for public relations reasons, we need you to tone down the crazy so that you can get rid of the Shiites for us.
That's what you're here for, and he has gone along with that.
But the thing is, Jack, as I'm sure you anticipate as well, if he really is just going to kowtow to America and Israel for the long term, then somebody's going to shoot him in the head and replace him anyway.
These guys are head-shopping lunatics as their basic political philosophy.
They're sort of like Patrick Coburn called ISIS the Islamist Khmer Rouge.
Right?
Like, they're bananas actors.
They cannot be relied on to hold down any kind of stable regime in any one place.
So it's gonna just be chaos there.
And Christians and Shiites now might run like hell.
And for a lot, and obviously, you know, we're talking about this because it just happened, but it happened because of many of the same reasons and many of the same covert operations and many of the same lies from our government and lies about what's actually going on that happened in Ukraine.
And I do want to get into that in the book, and we'll do so in the next segment.
But, you know, obviously anyone who's trying to make sense of the Syria situation, just understand it's a very, very similar case to what happened there, to what happened in Ukraine.
And, of course, Libya.
And if you want to look at, you know, a test case for what happened here, okay, you had Muammar Gaddafi.
I'm not saying that he's some champion of democratic values or, you know, a Jeffersonian, Enlightenment, Lockean, you know, philosopher.
No, of course not.
Fine.
But what was he?
What was Saddam Hussein replaced with in Iraq?
If you really think that this is making the world better to support these movements like the Arab Spring, well, guess what?
Syria is next.
And the dirty little secret that the U.S. government doesn't want you to know is that so many of these movements, of these organizations, many of which tied to the Muslim Brotherhood, to the Sunnis there, are directly Funded and supported by our U.S. government.
It's not happening by accident.
Go look at Pakistan.
Pakistan, the CIA's secret basement where the Taliban first crawled out of in the first place.
And so you're worried about these things, ladies and gentlemen.
Don't look overseas.
Actually, the problem is right here at home.
We're on with Scott Horton of Antiwar.com.
His book, Provoked, it's about Ukraine, but it's actually about us.
Stay tuned.
Be right back.
When I'm working long hours, I'm always listening to Human Events with Jack Posobiec.
All right, Jack Posobiec, we are back on live.
We're talking about...
The truth about how Washington provoked a new Cold War with Russia, and we're on with author Scott Horton of the book Provoked, which essentially tells the next story.
Let's go back to really when all of these things kicked off and the wonderful end of history, the end of the Cold War.
Fukuyama's statement comes out.
The unipolar moment has begun.
The United States has won.
Democracy has won.
Communism has been killed.
Yeah, the good guys won.
Then something happened, though, where NATO, which was set up to fight the Soviet Union, had to come up with a new justification for its existence.
And a lot of people, by the way, Donald Trump himself pointed out several times, why does NATO still exist if the Soviet Union doesn't anymore?
Their enemy went away.
Well, it seems that in the 1990s and throughout that end-of-history moment, The seeds of the new conflicts that we see now were planted and have now borne fruit.
Yeah, that's right.
And I think if you go back to, and this is not the conspiracy version, this is the straight version.
When H.W. Bush announced the new world order, he wasn't really talking about one world government conspiracy stuff.
He was saying, America rules the world now.
The USA is the world government.
As we saw as the doctrine was implemented, especially by his successors, Bill Clinton and his son, and then Barack Obama as well, what that means is that the actual world law, not that I'm the greatest fan of this, but this is the treaty that everyone signed, the UN Charter, that that actually is obsolete now.
Now instead, we have the American-led order, where, as Bush Sr. said, what we say goes.
And so that means they can start wars without a UN Security Council vote or even a declaration of war from Congress or any other real authority.
And essentially, it's all built on this self-righteous justification that if we weren't holding the world down, then it would burst into flames.
It would all go to hell and it would either be us or the Russians or the Chinese or some other horrible power would take over the world.
So we have to take it over, but not call it that.
We just have to be the hegemons of the world to prevent badness from breaking out.
That's essentially the justification.
And so from the beginning, in spite of their solemn vows and promises and agreements with the Soviets and then later the Russians, they expanded their influence, not just into the Middle East, we all know that story, but expanded the NATO military alliance into Eastern Europe and right up to Russia's borders, including the Baltic states.
They did the color-coded revolutions.
Well, first the Balkan Wars, and then the color-coded revolutions.
Oh, did I skip Bill Clinton when I talked about lawless wars?
Clinton did Kosovo, then Bush did Iraq, then Obama did Libya.
No, I did say Clinton.
So anyway, the color-coded revolutions against friends of Russia in their near abroad, including Ukraine twice in 10 years, Bush Jr. in 2004, and Obama again in 2014, put America's thumb on the scale.
So what you're talking about, what you're talking about are a series of...
Color revolutions, and we've covered color revolutions here on the program a number of times, but essentially what these are, are they take these, you know, it might start out as a legitimate but, you know, small, you know, movement somewhere in one of these other countries.
In some cases, it may not exist.
The Arab Spring, by the way, I just mentioned, of course, is an example of this.
In some cases, the organization itself might have always been started by USAID or some CIA front group or U.S. front group overseas, and they are able to turn this into a national...
What they're doing really is...
I've always read the color revolutions as an attempt to recreate the end of the Soviet Union over and over and over again to say, okay, well, we don't like this government and this worked this one time, so we're just going to try it over and over and over.
And it does seem to work.
The template usually is they dispute an election and they go, well, we have exit polls.
And our exit polls say that our God won not yours.
This kind of thing.
Refuse to accept defeat.
And then, yeah, so oftentimes you're talking about a very poor country like Ukraine or Georgia.
And then these NGOs come in with tens of millions of dollars to support.
By the way, this just happened in Romania.
This just happened in Romania like last week.
It's happening in Georgia right now.
It's happening in Georgia as well right now.
Yeah, they were defeated.
The Soros candidate was defeated.
And then all of a sudden it's like, no, no, we don't like that election.
We don't like those results.
So, you know, we're going to cancel the next election.
And then in Romania, the one that drove me wild was they said, we don't like the results.
And Russia got...
You know, interfered.
How do you know?
And he said, oh, we think there were some TikTok videos.
They they promoted some TikTok videos of the candidate and therefore Russia interfered.
So they they actually canceled the election.
And I believe they're going to rerun the first iteration again of the presidential election in in a NATO EU country.
And again, as everyone is familiar, all of this is in the name of democracy.
But see, this goes to the heart of it, right?
Forget the most cynical arms dealers and the most cynical liars and whatever in the thing.
Take even the most public-spirited take on this thing.
No, really, we're just trying to spread, as George Soros calls them, open societies in the world.
We are talking about a lot of backwards, corrupt dictatorships or sort of pseudo-fake democracies and this kind of thing.
And so you might really wish that they had regular elections and an independent judiciary and an open public corruption bureau and everything is just great over there.
But imagine, Jack, really, the U.S. empire going to such lengths.
To create such democratic systems in other people's countries, but then, oh, they don't care who wins the election, though.
They're perfectly happy to see the other side win and the American guy lose or the pro-Western guy lose.
Yeah, right.
There has to be built in, no matter what, a conflict of interest in all of this stuff.
There's no way that it can be just so selfless that all they really want is the people of the world to be free.
Unless being free means...
Just like democracy means when the Democrats win and get what they want.
Otherwise, they'll frame you for treason, whether it's Trump or whether it's what's his name in Romania, and they'll depose you and cheat and do what they have to do to maintain their power.
And so that's the key.
It's just like a cop who can get away with running a red light or even killing a hooker or something.
And like the law doesn't apply to the law enforcer a lot of the times.
And in that case, it's us.
It's the middle part.
Or if you're the nephew of a wealthy and well-connected legal family in Pennsylvania and your girlfriend mysteriously stabs herself 20 times, including 10 times in the back, and it just so happens that Josh Shapiro, the Attorney General, is a family friend, that suddenly it gets ruled a suicide.
I bring that up as a hypothetical.
That's not a reference to anything that I've been covering here on the show.
I actually only just read that story for the first time the other day.
And they were talking about it like everybody knows this story.
And I was like, what?
I totally missed this.
I've been working on a book for a year or two.
I've been going down the road on that one quite extensively.
I'll have to show you.
I'll have to send you the podcast we did on it.
But, you know, again, it is the powerful...
Ellen Greenberger is a name, by the way, for folks who want to look this up.
For folks in power, they stay in power, and they attempt to expand their power.
It is something that is historic.
We've seen power act this way across centuries.
Mearsheimer talks about this, by the way, as an understanding of this is how great powers operate.
But it seems as though, and I like the way Mearsheimer frames it, because he says the United States is attempting to achieve something beyond great power status in the fact where They want to be this sort of global hegemon.
And this is why, by the way, you can go to Washington, D.C., and you'll see furious op-eds from members of both Republican and Democrat parties arguing that, you know, everyone needs to focus on some conflict or some border that is thousands of miles away.
And don't worry about the public crime issues in your hometown or the fentanyl zombies meandering around.
No, this thing that's happening in some desert or some desolate Eurasian, you know, winterized tundra is something that you should be totally focused on.
And by the way, I still do this.
I still go to newsstands.
I know nobody does it anymore.
But I go to newsstands, and I try almost every morning to look at the cover of The Washington Post and The New York Times and The Wall Street Journal.
Ukraine is on the cover almost every single day.
Every once in a while, they change it out with Syria, but then they go right back to Ukraine.
It's like, is this really the most important thing?
You wonder why nobody reads it anymore, but it's something that is really being tried so hard to be jammed down the throats of the American people.
I call it the regime.
Other people call it the uniparty.
Mike Benz calls it the blob.
Whatever name people want to use for it, you know, I think that we've all realized that, and the 2024 election was a huge part of this, that something has gone wrong and a disconnect took place between the people of this country and the people who are running it because their interests and the interests of the people who live here are simply in no way connected.
Yep.
And, you know, the real problem is that these guys are sure what heroes they are.
I mean, there's a great quote, I'm sure you're familiar with this, where someone had confronted John Laughlin, who had been the acting director of the CIA, but was a longtime CIA guy, senior official.
And someone said, you know, Donald Trump says you're all the deep state or something like that was the question.
And he says, well, thank God for the deep state.
He goes, let me tell you something.
This is at the height of Russiagate hoaxery.
I remember this.
I remember.
He says, let me tell you something.
The problem is not at Fort Meade or at the Hoover Building or in Langley.
The problem is at 1600 Pennsylvania.
Now, if Donald Trump was really a traitor and a suborn blackmailed slave of Vladimir Putin, then I guess maybe.
But you notice that the CIA and the NSA, they're completely post-constitutional national security state structures.
The FBI as a Bureau of the Department of Justice might be constitutional in a sense, but they're way outside of their writ when, as we all know now, and a lot of us knew then, but we all know now, it was the FBI that was framing him for this treason in the first place.
I mean, the CIA started it and the FBI really continued the whole thing of framing of the president on this ridiculous hoax.
And then...
They use that to say, John Laughlin is just perfectly proud to say, listen, we're the secret police.
We do what we think is right.
If the president, we decide as a national...
There is a whole...
There is a whole media infrastructure of Hollywood and books and TV shows that are pushed everywhere in our society, every single airport you walk through, to lionize the FBI, lionize the CIA, lionize these agencies and act as if they are some sort of secret superhero when in fact what's being done is that fantasy is being pushed so you don't pay attention to what the real ones are actually doing.
Right back, Scott Horton.
And Jack, where is Jack?
Where is Jack?
Where is he?
Jack, I want to see you.
Great job, Jack.
Thank you.
What a job you do.
You know, we have an incredible thing.
We're always talking about the fake news and the bad, but we have guys, and these are the guys who should be getting politicians.
All right, Jack Posobiec, we are back here, Human Events Daily.
Folks...
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So, Scott.
We've been talking about the U.S. government and this mentality that you see within the intelligence community.
I say that as a recovering intelligence officer, as I like to say, that I certainly knew people like this.
And I still know people like this, friends I know who stayed in.
And I'm like, guys, you know, why do you care this much about Syria?
This does not affect the homeland in any way.
And, you know, no amount of Charles Lister articles are going to change that.
Walk me through then how these heroes decided that Viktor Yanukovych was someone who couldn't possibly be allowed to continue on his presidency in Ukraine in 2014. Okay, so this is a very interesting question.
This comes down, this is the Maidan revolution of the Obama-Biden period there.
And so what happened essentially was, and Jack, I'll recommend to you, you watch.
This great interview with Paul Manafort, the falsely accused handler of Trump for Putin in the Russiagate hoax, same guy who is Trump's campaign manager.
He did an interview with Patrick Bette David, who is a pretty famous and prominent podcaster now, and it's a really insightful interview.
Where he explains that Yanukovych wanted to move west.
People say, oh, he was just Putin's puppet.
Not true.
And certainly Manafort wasn't, if anything.
And I don't know this, but I'm saying it would fit.
If anything, Manafort was CIA. He certainly had the cufflinks and the hairstyle and whatever to be like their kind of guy, I think.
But if he wasn't CIA, he certainly was not operating contrary to their interests or America's interests whatsoever.
People may have all different opinions about Manafort, but I'm telling you, you watched that interview with Patrick Bet-David.
Believe it or not, we've actually had Manafort here on this program, and he said very much the same thing.
It was a while back.
I'll have to make a note with the producers to re-up that one, because he said the very same thing when I asked him about Yanukovych.
I was like, look, I've got to ask you about Ukraine.
We do geopolitics here.
What was the deal with Yanukovych?
He said, no, Yanukovych wanted to move west, but...
As Ukraine is this, in Russian means at the border.
It is the frontier land.
It is that bridge between East and West.
And so what he was saying, what Manafort, the way he explained it was, he wanted to open up to the EU, but didn't want to completely shut off Russia either.
Right.
And yet the EU insisted.
That it has to be one or the other.
And I think ultimately Putin did too.
Putin sent mixed signals about this, but I think he was pretty stern on it as well because he was worried about Russia, you know, protectionist reasons.
He was worried about Russia being flooded with cheaper finished goods from Europe through Ukraine and undermining, you know, Russian industry that way.
And people in the East were quite a bit concerned about that as well, at least some of them.
But so I would cite actually George Soros.
He himself said to The Guardian that it was all Angela Merkel's fault, that she ruined the negotiations because she was just a bad negotiator, and she played too hard of hardball.
Essentially, Russia was willing to offer, I think, $15 billion worth of loans, and the West, five.
And it was barely enough for them to roll over their debt and just pay their interest on their debt from last time.
And meanwhile, they're going to have to slash pensions, slash subsidies for fuel.
This is a very poor country.
Slash pensions and subsidies for poor people so that they can balance the budget on their back and pay.
The West and Putin was just offering a sweeter deal, essentially.
And they make all their money off of Russian gas coming through those pipes.
So they're already, you know, pretty dependent on him economically.
And so Merkel blew it.
That was the way George Soros took it, was that Merkel had blown the thing up.
So he didn't actually even officially cancel the deal.
By the way, this is an association agreement with the EU, not full membership.
But what he did was he postponed it.
But that was enough to set off.
Many genuine believers, right?
People always say, oh, you're denying the agency of the locals.
But listen, the truth is, and Jack, I'm sure you understand this better than most, that America's done something like 50 coups or something.
I have a ridiculously long paragraph where I list politicians in the third world, especially who've been overthrown by the United States since World War II. And in every single case, of course, there are locals who are willing and ready and able.
And with some of these guys, you're lucky if all they do is overthrow you, by the way.
Well, that's right.
Yeah, it can be much worse.
But there's always, of course, a local team of people who are willing to accept the power.
It's always on behalf, not of just America, but on behalf of one faction over the other, the faction that we favor over the one that we don't.
Which, by the way, this is the same thing that the British Empire used to do, and if you go all the way back, it's what the Roman Empire used to do.
It's how Julius Caesar took over Gaul.
Yeah, and so...
You know, in this case, essentially what happened was that there are people who, in the east of the country, pardon me, especially in the west of the country, but really anywhere but maybe the far east of the country, who very much wanted to be out from under Russia's shadow.
So when the trade deal was canceled, they took that as total capitulation to Russia and the further enslavement of Ukraine under Russia.
And they really rebelled about that.
They had their own opinions about that.
But then the Americans came in and dumped tens of millions of dollars to support them.
And it was all American NGOs and officially USAID and NED, IRI and NDI. But then also many different George Soros-backed and Pierre Omidyar-backed NGOs that came.
And they were the ones who supported the whole movement, which is essentially this giant carnival that lasted for almost three months.
Throughout December, January and February of 13 and into 14 there, until essentially what they were trying to do was push through a deal.
The protesters really wanted the president to quit, but the Americans and the Europeans decided what they wanted to do was at least agree to early elections and put their guy in as prime minister, which is itself a form of coup, whatever the French call it exactly.
It was the American superpower forcing him to capitulate.
And fire his prime minister and hire their guy and agree to early elections that he would be sure to lose.
But then what happened was the Nazis in the street refused to accept the compromise.
And they said, the president doesn't leave town by 10 a.m.
We're going to put a bullet in his head.
And it was a credible threat.
Andrew Kramer from The New York Times said, this is a credible threat.
The crowd said, yes, yes.
And we know now, Jack, that the guy who jumped up on the stage and declared that the deal is null and void.
We're going to murder him tomorrow.
His name was Paris Yuck.
And he was the same guy who led the sniper team at the music conservatory that got the whole shootout started the day before.
And that's widely reported.
BBC, foreign policy, Alger, whatever you call it, the German one, and also BNE and Telenews.
They all have that.
That Paris Jouk was the leader of the sniper team in the music conservatory.
Same guy jumped up on the stage and said, I'll kill the president tomorrow morning if he ain't gone by then.
And he was.
He took off and fled the country.
So it was a street butch in the end.
And then after this, you essentially get a...
A small group of ultra-nationalists who are installed.
You have the Azov battalion that's brought in as their street arm, so the street violent arm, the shock troops of all of this, and that leads to the current regime and the breakup of the breakaway provinces and the Russian-speaking areas in Jack
is a great guy.
He's written a fantastic book.
Everybody's talking about it.
Go get it.
And he's been my friend right from the beginning of this whole beautiful event.
And we're going to turn it around and make our country great again.
Amen.
So Jack Posobiec, here we are.
Scott Horton, final segment of this provoked how the West really led to a new Cold War with Russia and the catastrophe in Ukraine, which broke out because Russia decided to not keep the war simply cold after what happened in Ukraine was,
in fact, a coup spurned on by the US. So, Scott, in the midst of all of this, essentially, you have Kamala Harris and Joe Biden and so many others, they were running over to Europe saying, guess what?
The final stage of it is going to be NATO bases inside Ukraine.
And the Russians, and you hear any of the interviews they give, they constantly say, we...
Are worried about military invasion from the West.
Why?
Because it's happened over and over and over in our history.
And, well, I'll say this as a guy of Polish descent, they do not respond lightly to said invasions and are known for their own provocation as well.
And so, you know, I always kind of sit there and say, why would you want to pick a fight with those guys?
Have you seen what they do when they start marching?
It's not pretty.
And why would you want to do that when they have more nuclear weapons than anyone else in the world?
And I do want to go back to that as we wrap up because I think you're right in what you said about President Trump and his understanding of nuclear weapons really is what just kind of...
Pushes through so many times when he's speaking about Russia and he's speaking about this.
As you said, I was there when he met with Putin and held the Helsinki Summit back in 2018 in Finland at the presidential palace.
And, you know, he didn't say it, but you could tell that he deals with Putin and Xi Jinping and even Kim Jong-un, as we saw on that 101 level, in a different way that he deals with other world leaders.
And partially that's because he understands.
That a powerful nuclear-armed nation is not a—it's like dealing with another CEO that you can't just push around.
And look, I should have said this at the beginning, Jack, and I'll go ahead and say it now so that your audience understands real well.
And I know they already know you, and they know Donald Trump and all of that.
But I'm an American patriot.
I'm a Texan.
And I don't know really much about Russia or give a damn about Russia.
None of what I say here has anything to do with— Talking points that I learned or got paid to say or any of these silly kind of tropes or even do I have any particular sympathy toward Russia at all?
It's the same thing that my previous book is about how America provoked Al-Qaeda, their own mercenary terrorist force, into turning around and attacking the United States of America and kicking off the whole war on terrorism.
Nobody even bothered accusing me of simping for bin Laden then.
I was simply explaining why he did what he did and how he was able to convince people to do what he wanted them to do.
And it was by citing Bill Clinton's sins.
It's the same kind of thing here.
I'm not here to argue a brief.
For the Russian side of the story.
But the thing is, we're not talking about Stalin and Khrushchev and the Red Army and Soviet enslavement here.
We're talking about essentially center-right conservative Russia that...
Has no real need or want to recreate the Russian Empire, certainly not at the expense of their entire relationship with the West, as the current crisis has cost them.
They only did this because the Americans made them choose to do this now or do it never.
Now, I'm not justifying it.
The book is called Provoked, Not Justified, and I think that Putin did have other alternatives.
But I also think that Joe Biden is a really lousy president and that he spent the first year of his presidency in 21 acting all tough while actually demonstrating that he's not tough and not smart at all.
You look at his...
Absolute catastrophic failure and decision-making that really was just him.
It wasn't like it was just guys on the ground.
It was his decision to postpone the withdrawal from Afghanistan by four months that led to that catastrophe.
That's a whole other interview.
I could explain it.
But it was his fault that the withdrawal from Afghanistan went completely to hell the way it did.
And then he's telling Putin, you better not do it.
But he's not willing throughout the fall and the winter of 21, he's not willing to really negotiate.
If you look at his phone call with Putin on the 30th of December, he's conciliatory.
He says, Vlad, listen, man, I'm not going to bring Ukraine into NATO, not any time in the next decade, and I'm not going to put missiles in Kharkiv and threaten Moscow.
What am I, crazy?
And I have to tell you, I think that was true.
I believe that.
But he wasn't willing to put it in writing.
He wasn't willing because then that's appeasing Hitler.
That's giving in to the bully.
You can never do that.
So we're just going to have to shout at him that NATO is a defensive organization and we would never attack you.
And he's just going to have to accept that.
And all of his protestations about how his security concerns negate that possibility and that he is actually not going to let that happen, notwithstanding.
And, you know, as I talk about in the book.
And Biden was clear about this even in his spring interview, this last recent early summer interview with Time magazine.
He said, I'm the guy who said we're not bringing Ukraine into NATO. We're not bringing Ukraine into NATO. We can't.
They're way too corrupt in their democracy and their economy.
Forget about it.
We're not bringing them in.
But, and this is the same thing he said in 22, right before the war.
We're not bringing them in.
But you can't tell us we're not bringing them in.
Only we can say we're not bringing them in and no other nation's security interests can ever be taken into account.
That would be a violation of the sacred principle of the open door, which is just some made-up crap that they said in 1999. It's just jargon.
It doesn't mean anything.
They could close the door.
Donald Trump could close the door six weeks from now and it would be closed.
There's not even really a door, Jack.
It's just made-up crap.
And they said, no, but the principle is no one can tell us that no one can join.
So as far as that goes, we insist that Ukraine will become a member of NATO. And that's the war.
And this is the mentality.
This is the mentality.
That sets this up.
This is the mentality that pushes so many people in the intel community or in the government or the State Department down these lines.
It is a form of hubris.
It's a form of self-worship.
And it's a form of delusion.
It's just an absolute delusion.
And it's gotten so many people killed.
Folks, the book is Provoked, How Washington Started the New Cold War with Russia and the Catastrophe in Ukraine.
Scott, thanks so much for being here with us and breaking down this information that many people may not have heard.
Thank you, Jack.
God bless.
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