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April 25, 2024 - Human Events Daily - Jack Posobiec
48:41
EPISODE 722: ANTI-WHITE RACISM, CHRISTIAN LEADERS FOR SALE AND THE INDICTMENTS OF ARIZONA ELECTORS

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Hey folks, I want to remind you that the Turning Point Action People's Conference is coming up this June 14th to 16th in Detroit, Michigan.
Get your tickets and then go to unhumansbook.com to come to a special meet and greet for the launch party of The Unhumans Book with myself and Joshua Lysak.
I'll see you there in Detroit.
This is what happens when the fourth turning meets fifth generation warfare.
A commentator, international social media sensation, and former Navy intelligence veteran.
This is Human Events with your host, Jack Posobiec.
Deliver us from evil!
Breaking news!
The New York Appeals Court overturns Harvey Weinstein's 2020 rape conviction from the landmark Me Too trial.
The clock now ticking for TikTok to find a buyer or be banned in the U.S.
after President Biden signed into law a foreign aid package that includes a provision forcing the sale of the Chinese-owned company in the next nine months.
Justices will soon hear arguments to decide if former President Donald Trump has absolute immunity from criminal prosecution.
If a president doesn't have full immunity, You really don't have a president.
Trump says, oh, that means you won't have a presidency.
No, you just need a president who doesn't commit crimes, which isn't a hard thing to do.
When Trump claims absolute immunity, here's what that means in plain English.
I, Donald Trump, can do anything I want and the law, even the criminal law, Can't touch me.
The GDP just announces all the way down to 1.6 percent and it's heading south.
It's going to get worse.
Energy costs are going way up and the stock market is in a sense crashing.
The numbers are very bad.
This is by dynamics.
It's catching up with them.
Four more years.
Four more years!
USA!
We're beating every swing state by a lot, and we're beating the nation by a lot.
He's the worst president in the history of our country.
He makes Jimmy Carter look great.
Arizona grand jury has indicted 11 of the so-called fake electors, along with several other allies of Donald Trump, for their efforts to overturn the 2020 election, a 58-page indictment Okay, we are fraudulent electors.
There's a fraud scheme going on here.
charges related to attempts by the defendants to change the election results in Donald Trump's favor.
What are they thinking, Willie?
I can't.
I just can't.
It's such a cult.
Okay, we are fraudulent electors.
We -- there's a fraud scheme going on here.
Let's put the cameras on.
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome aboard today's edition of Human Events Daily.
We are live from Budapest, Hungary.
That's right, Budapest, Hungary.
Today is April 25th, 2024.
Anno Domini.
The fake electors scheme!
The fake electors scheme!
They're going to be screaming about that all day long.
The fake electors scheme.
Let me tell you something about this.
They're called alternate electors.
Alternate.
Not fake.
Alternate.
Because you know why?
That's the legally allowable nomenclature to go in on when there's a contested election.
And that's what was happening in 2020.
It was a perfectly legal process that everybody was following.
They didn't just follow it in Arizona.
This is also Georgia.
This is also Michigan.
But then they come to Arizona and they went and they indict Tyler Boyer.
Not only is Tyler Boyer one of us, he's my friend.
He's the co-host on ThoughtCrime.
Let me tell you something.
I have a message not for the left, not for the cultural Marxists, not for the unhumans that are bringing this indictment.
Here's my message for the people who say that I'm fighting communism.
I'm going to fight communism very hard, but don't you say anything mean.
Don't you use any mean words.
Don't be mean.
Don't be unfair.
Are you joking right now?
Why don't you people wake up and actually understand what part of the movie we're in?
Do you understand what time it is?
They are indicting people for legal activity, legal political activity.
People like Tyler, by the way, who are running the largest chase vote operations in the entire country for the ballots.
This is insane.
This is absolutely insane.
And they're not fake electors.
I don't even know why people are saying fake electors.
You should never say fake electors.
I think fake about it in any way, shape, or form.
But my message is, You people better start waking up and learning that it's time to fight back.
You better start waking up, and you better start waking up right now.
And quite frankly, if you're one of these people, these moderates, or these independents, or these, oh, I'm a centrist, this, okay, fine.
That's fine.
I'm not saying you have to endorse, you know, everything that goes on.
But I will say this.
It is time to put up or shut up.
This is gloves-off territory, and we're in gloves-off territory now.
Because you know what's going to happen?
You're going to say, oh, I'm not going to fight back now because that would be too controversial.
I'm not going to fight back now because I might get in trouble.
Well, guess what?
When they're done knocking on everyone's door because they've already indicted them, guess who's going to be getting the knock on the door next?
You will.
No more quitters.
No more cowardice.
I'm sick of it.
Fight back now or we're all going down.
You're right back.
I will.
I know what really went down, so I'm jumping on my computer, going to pre-order town.
Ladies and gentlemen, one of the best ways that you can support us here at Human Events and the work that we do is subscribing to us on our Rumble channel.
Make sure you're subscribed, you hit the notifications, so you'll never miss a clip, you'll never miss a new live episode, and we're putting them out every single day of the week.
But I got a hankering yearning deep inside for this book called Unhumans.
I just can't.
All right, folks, we're back here.
Human Events Daily, Budapest, Hungary.
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Very excited now to bring on our next guest, something we've been talking about for a while here on the program, anti-white racism.
Anti-white racism is something that's going on for a long time in the United States, but it used to be that if you talked about these things, if you talked about this topic, you yourself was branded a racist.
I would say the worm has turned on that one, and now we're finally getting a flurry of writings, and people are even going back and re-looking at old writings that were thrown to the wayside I'm great, Jack.
How are you?
And I'm not talking ancient history.
I'm talking recent history all the way from the 1960s up.
A new book that is out by Jeremy Carl.
He is a senior fellow at the fantastic Claremont Institute.
It's called The Unprotected Class.
And Jeremy joins us now.
Jeremy, how are you?
I'm great, Jack.
How are you?
Thanks for having me on.
I'm excellent.
So tell me, what motivated you to want to write this book now?
Well, it was a little bit like, I'd say, the story of Job.
Or rather not the story of Job, but the story of Jonah.
And that I didn't really want to write it.
Because for all the reasons you were just kind of alluding to, right?
I mean, you get a lot of grief, right?
And so I sort of felt, I prayed about it quite a bit, you know, I kind of felt like God was telling me to go to Nineveh and preach about this for a number of years.
And I was like, no, actually, I don't want to do that.
That's sounds kind of hard.
So I moved to Montana.
I worked at a senior post in the Trump administration in which some of my writings on this became kind of higher profile.
And I got attacked by the Washington Post and others.
And I think I was free advertising of your writing.
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, not that it was secret, right?
I mean, it was all under my own name.
I was proud of it.
But it just when you're a senior government official, it It sort of takes a little bit more notice.
So what I basically did is I said, you know, hey, like, I should just go write about this because it's an issue.
People care about it.
And, you know, I'm not going to allow myself to be silenced.
And so I kind of reluctantly went to Nineveh.
I went and preached.
And that's kind of how we wound up with the book.
And then I just briefly note, you know, like, This was, even two years ago when I started to write about this, it was much more taboo territory than it is now.
And that's thanks to you and guys like Tucker Carlson and Matt Walsh and Charlie Kirk who've been really bold about pushing on this issue and really getting it out in the mainstream.
So one of the points that you mention in the book, what are the origins of anti-white racism?
What would you describe as, where did this get started, this idea?
Because the story that we're told, and I might feed it to you a little bit, but the story that we're told is that America has been fighting racism since the Civil Rights Act, and we get taught about Martin Luther King and, you know, the content of the character, etc.
And everyone says, yeah, that's great.
That's a wonderful standard.
So how do you go from that standard very quickly to anti-white racism?
Well, I think that's a great question, and that was something that I spent a lot of time thinking about as I was writing this book, because these sorts of ideas, they don't spring like Athena, fully armored from Zeus's head just out of nowhere and ready for battle.
They have gestations, and they have reasons why they come into being.
And what I kind of fundamentally think is that this is one of the oldest Questions in politics that really motivates it, which is essentially who controls resources.
And right now in our society, white people, you know, despite having gone down on the totem pole a little bit, they still have a lot of resources.
Other groups would like those resources, or at least some members or leaders of other groups.
But in 2024 in America, you can't just come up to people and say, hey, give me your stuff.
You need to have what the late sociologist C. Wright Mills called a legitimating ideology, which means you have to have basically an ideology that says, hey, this is why it's OK, and in fact, good for me to take your stuff.
And so you come up with things like white supremacy, white privilege, critical race theory, sort of all these things, and talk about the kind of inevitable racist history of the United States to say, hey, this is entirely justifiable that we're going to take your stuff.
And I think that's really what's motivating it.
You know, it's interesting, too, because you mentioned Take Your Stuff, and that is part and parcel of Marxism.
In the Communist Manifesto, of course, the abolition of private property is sort of the central religious tenet of Marxism.
In Chinese Maoism, the actual word, I always say this on the show, but the word for communism in Mandarin translates essentially to Yeah.
collective ownership.
So this idea that all property will be owned in a pool, all property will be owned by a collective.
But we see how this works out in practice.
It's not that it's all owned by in a pool.
It's that it goes from the people who have it to the government, to the corrupt class.
And there is one group of people that's always scapegoated whenever one of these things comes in.
And of course, in the United States, we know which group that is.
That group predominantly has been white people, even if those white people weren't the ones who had the most to begin with.
Oh, absolutely.
I mean, white people to kind of use, you gave a great Chinese analogy, and I know you have a lot of experience in that part of the world.
You could also talk about the kulaks among the Soviet Union.
They were the sort of wealthier peasant farmers who were always blamed for when the five-year plan didn't get hit.
And so whites are sort of a convenience scapegoat.
And what happened is, as they've gone, because we haven't controlled our border, Since the 1960s, particularly under Biden, from a kind of large supermajority to 58% of the population, and just another minority among the under 18 crowd, the entire dynamics of this issue have begun to change in some kind of disturbing and potentially dangerous ways.
Well, it's, you know, it's funny, a couple of points there, by the way, when they ever say they say peasant farmer, I always say with the Kulaks, I always point out that, you know, when we hear peasant farmer, it's kind of confusing.
What's a peasant farmer?
But you know what we'd call that in America?
A small business owner, right?
So someone who's got like, you know, you've got like a little bit of land, you got maybe one storefront, but that's it.
You're not like some oligarch.
It's like a small business owner.
Someone who's got a couple of Airbnbs and you see what they do with the squatters and all the rest of it.
And so it just means you're not a member of like the heavily landed class, but you know, you got some area.
When you talk about the demographic change, though, in what ways would you say that it has shifted the opinion on this issue?
Well, I think as long as whites were sort of a big supermajority, and even before the Hartzeller Immigration Bill of 1965 that began radically transforming our demographics, and I talk about this quite a lot in the book, you know, we were essentially a white and black country, to kind of oversimplify, and we were overwhelmingly within that white.
And really, the status of whites, even if they were challenged, or if some people were kind of going to criticize whites, Wasn't really under extreme threat in any particular way.
But as the demographics have changed, there are a lot of groups that have simply, you know, overall, again, I'm speaking very generally, I'm talking about political leadership, obviously not every member, they've allied against whites.
And so you have a very bizarre situation in America, which I am not aware of in any other developed democracy, in which the white Americans who have made up a super majority of the presidential election electorate in every election, And that's a great point.
history, they have not voted for the Democrats since 1964 when Johnson beat Goldwater.
And yet the Democrats regularly win presidential elections because the minority vote tends to be much more consolidated on the other end of the spectrum.
So, I mean, that's kind of how the political dynamics, I think, a lot of this work.
And that's a great point, you know, something that I think a lot of people don't always understand, and it is generational too, because I
I talk about this issue so many times, and typically when you get with folks that are, shall we say, that remember America from pre-1960s, to them that's sort of their set view of America, and it's almost hard to get it across to them that actually America isn't like that anymore, America doesn't function like the 1960s anymore, and it certainly doesn't even function like the 1980s anymore.
No, absolutely.
And it's funny you mention that, because I was chatting with Charlie Kirk on his show about a week ago, and he said that when he talks about this issue with sort of his older donors, they kind of are trapped in, oh, you know, like, even is talking about this issue racist.
But when he talks about it with those students, who he spends, of course, probably just about more time with than just about anybody else in the movement, they're all like, they get it immediately.
They're like, oh, yeah, of course, this is a huge issue, and we should really be talking about it.
Yeah, Charlie and I, and of course we have our show, Thoughtcrime, tonight where we commit all sorts of thought crimes and, you know, it's been a topic that comes up again and again.
And what's great about that show specifically, and we'll come up on a break here in about a minute, but what's great about that show is we deliberately tell people up front, we are going to discuss verboten topics.
This is the forum for that.
So if you don't want to watch it, you don't have to, and you can check out.
Meanwhile, of course, the mainstream media and these left-wing groups and the Media Matters types always go after us.
Oh, look what they said here.
I said, well, wait a minute.
The whole point of this is to give ourselves a space whereby on a weekly basis we can sort of unplug from the news cycle and then actually discuss some of these topics that we're told we're not allowed to bring up because it's very naughty to even discuss these things.
Quick break here.
We're on the on the show here today.
Jeremy Carl, his book is Unprotected Class, all about the anti white racism that is going on in the United States.
It is prevalent.
It is unspoken of.
And now.
We are speaking.
I'll be right back here, live from Budapest, Hungary, Jack Persova, Cuban Mets Daily.
Hidden tales of the communist history.
I want to know the truth, what really went down.
So I'm jumping on my computer, going to pre-order town.
It's in a mystery.
The hidden tales of the communist history.
I want to know the truth, what really went down.
All right, Jack Posobiec back here live, Budapest, Hungary.
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All right, we're speaking today with Jeremy Carl.
He's the author of the new book, The Unprotected Class, all about anti-white racism in the United States.
Jeremy, I've got to ask you, we talk about it a lot on the program.
Human events listeners have heard about it, but I've got to hear what does the book say specifically about quote-unquote white flight and the idea that that the reason that whites were forced to flee their towns and cities and this this you know I thought it was just in the Northeast like I experienced as a kid when I was about 11 years old and this was in the 90s but it's been going on throughout the entire country all the way back to the 1960s
How did this get started and how did we lose those towns and communities through the point of the bayonet of the government?
Yeah, well, it's a great question, Jack.
And this, as you said, it goes back well before the 1990s.
And I was, we were saying just during the break, I was saying that one of the things I talk about in the book is that white flight is really the only form of ethnic cleansing in which the victims were blamed for it.
And really they were, and they were called kind of middle and working class whites who were put in a situation in which things just became untenable for them.
I mean, the crime was too much.
The schools weren't functioning, and they had to leave because of that, and then they were kind of turned around and tarred as racists.
And I really kind of get into this, and I start by kind of, I have a chapter on crime, and then I kind of talk about how crime sort of leads to white flight, and then I talk a lot about so-called blockbusting, which was kind of ways that people got
Well, and it's interesting with the blockbusting that you mentioned as well, because the blockbusting didn't even work out well for the speculators, because what ended up happening—this is how you get the slums, right?
Because what ended up happening was that they would break up the block, they would tell people that all the criminals are coming in, that Section 8's coming in, etc., and they could see it happening in other parts of town.
So the speculators would come in, buy up the real estate from these terrified families, and then when they couldn't turn them into rental properties or investment properties, they would just cut their losses and then they'd abandon the property.
They'd get money from the government for this.
And this is how you ended up with towns all across America that have just completely ghosted And you get these, in some cases, I gotta say, and I'm from the Northeast originally, it's how I can speak to this, these beautiful homes built turn of the century in many cases, post-war in other cases.
That are just absolutely gorgeous, and they're abandoned, they're run down, they're trashed.
And we have towns like this all over America, which, and of course, my producers are hitting me with the Pizza Hut ad.
That's what I always go for.
They always know how to twist the knife on me.
Because I can remember growing up in a town like this, a town that my family lived in since we came from Poland almost 100 years.
And what people don't understand, Specifically about this, it's those, those, they say, oh, the white people left because they're racist.
And it's like, you lose your, your churches, you lose your family ties, your connections, you can't, it's all scattered to the wind.
You can't just build that by fiat, no matter how many times the, the government tries to come in and do it, or like a community, like a hoa, nobody likes hoas, you know, it's all, it's all top down pressure, you know, pressure and textualization.
And so, It's amazing to me.
There's a book I've got to get you that I read some excerpts of recently, where there were some of these social scientists talking about a town that was experiencing this through the 60s and 70s.
And they would actually talk about the horrific crime that was going on, but then they would turn around and just blame it all.
They would say, well, these attitudes are clearly just part of the latent racism that exists in this community.
It's like, no, they're actually responding to things that are happening in their own town.
It isn't perhaps about the reformers.
They just can't get past it.
It wasn't left behind in Roseville, was it, by any chance?
It was left behind in Roseville.
That's exactly what it was, yes.
Yeah, I actually quote that a lot in the book.
It's a horrifying story, or you could read the Saturday Evening Post.
Tanya, my wife Tanya Tay, comes in because I got just like a couple of chapters of it and I sat there for hours.
I sat there for hours and I went and had to get the whole book and I'm reading this like going out of my mind.
Explain to people what it is, who don't know what we're talking about.
Well, Roseville is a fictionalized, I mean it's a real Texas town, but it's fictionalized.
I'm not sure what the actual town was and it kind of describes this town that was essentially You know, kind of the white flight occurred.
And for those whites who stayed, particularly the older ones who didn't want to give up their community, I mean, endless home invasions, endless rapes, murders.
It just becomes, you know, horrifying.
And then often if perpetrators were caught, you know, they would claim that it was like a racist cop who did it.
And so, you know, everybody who could get out did.
And the people who didn't have any money, who didn't have any income, like elderly people, were sort of Stuck in Roseville to become, you know, victims of predation, essentially.
And it's a really, it's a really horrifying story.
The book, it just, it utterly blew my mind that something like that could be written with, and with a straight face.
These social reformers keep just blaming it all on racism.
It's just all racism.
I even found, I looked up the Amazon reviews for this crazy book, and it's written by the Libs, so people understand what we're talking about.
That the Amazon reviews even one there was one from a professor.
I can't use this in my class anymore because this is dated language and and they're Source, it's a primary source and you're not you're gonna refuse to use it because you don't like the language and this really is the issue When it comes to these things and by the way, we're not talking about ancient history here or something We're talking about things that happened in most people's lifetimes.
I Absolutely.
I mean, you talked about your family.
My family came to Cleveland in the 1840s, and some of them still live in that area.
And it's the same sort of thing, right?
Like, they didn't want to leave their community.
They had all sorts of institutions.
They had cultures.
They had schools.
But it just became too violent.
The education system collapsed and, you know, they didn't have any choice.
And I kind of tell the story in the book of Michelle Obama kind of complaining about white people fleeing from, you know, when her families like her moved into her particular part of Chicago.
And then I recount a kind of article written by my Claremont colleague, William Voegeli, where he shows that it wasn't because they were sort of blindly racist, but because As the demographics of the neighborhood turned, it became one of the most dangerous and least functional neighborhoods in the city.
And people did try to stay around, but then, you know, a popular toy store owner is murdered, and at some point, people just give up.
But the result, of course, the way this is told in history, is that this is white people's fault.
They not only lose their entire communities in the way that you've described, Jack, but they're blamed for it.
No, and it's it's taken me a long time to kind of come to terms with it because but but I mean I can never even I will never for my entire life I'll never forget the day that we were moving and we were leaving from this this this Where you know, I was like related to half the people on the block.
And we knew all the kids who the neighborhood kids who I played with were the kids of the neighborhood kids that my father had played with.
It was the same house my father grew up in that we lived in.
I mean, because that's how it was, right?
That's just how it was in those types of neighborhoods.
And And now that I'm older, I understand better, but it's still something where the emotional impact never, ever leaves you, because these were homes and communities that were stolen, and they were stolen by the power.
So let's go to this, because there's only a couple of minutes left.
What are some of the, I dare say it, but are there solutions to any of this?
Where do you come down on that in the book?
Absolutely.
So I talk about a lot of solutions.
And I mean, I think some of them are we got to fundamentally reconceptualize civil rights law in some very fundamental ways.
Because right now, civil rights law is functionally used to discriminate against white people.
That's thing one.
Then you also have to look at affirmative action.
You have to look at the way the government categorizes people by race.
You need to look at restoring freedom of association.
You need to look at new inter-ethnic political alliances between a lot of groups, particularly Asian Americans, for example, a lot of Hispanic Americans, other people who are not being served well by the current system.
I have in my book 12 different proposed solutions, and I think this is not hopeless.
I mean, it's a difficult situation, but America has tackled much more difficult situations before in the past, and we've come out on the other end as still the greatest country in the world.
I just think we have to have some bravery, and that's what I've tried to do here in setting this up.
I couldn't agree more.
You're being extremely brave for putting this out and speaking about these topics, because even now, of course, you'll get labeled something or other, but hey, I mean, I'm here at CBAC Hungary, and I was just speaking with some of the delegates here from South Africa, and I said, boy, those guys, I said, are you sure you even want to go back by choice?
And they say, of course, it's our home.
It's our home, and there's a power in home, and this is something where I think the right has been very deficient, has been very deficient in saying, oh, well, you should just go somewhere else, go where the jobs are, go where the capital is.
How about I don't want to?
How about I want to live in the place where my family resides, and where, you know, Tucker's great line, where my family is buried, the graveyard that my family has used for 100 years.
Why should I be forced to leave that?
Jeremy Carl, amazing book, man.
We should get you on.
I want to read this thing cover to cover.
I love it.
Thank you for doing this.
Thanks so much for having me.
I appreciate it.
God bless, man.
The book is The Unprotected Class.
Everybody, if you want to understand what's going on, go get yourselves a copy of this book.
We'll be right back.
Megan Bosham joins us next.
I'm going to jump in on my computer.
Going to pre-order town.
Pre-order in the U.S.
Can't wait to get my hands on that book.
Going to dive into his pages.
Take a closer look from the Russian Revolution.
All right, Jack Bersovic, we are back here live.
Budapest, Hungary, working on getting Megan Bosham, will be our next guest, all about her new book, But first, I wanted to give you guys a quick update.
We all know President Trump's presidential immunity hearing was held earlier today at the Supreme Court.
Mike Davis, of course, the great Mike Davis, has this incredible tweet.
I want to read it for you.
That's me.
because he really goes through everything.
Bottom line, he says likely five to four, but that's only if Justice Amy Coney Barrett joins the three liberals.
And I have to say it, folks, I have to say it.
At this point, it seems like Amy Coney Barrett is pro-life, but liberal on almost everything else.
So what Mike David, that's me, that's not Mike saying that.
So it says that the Supreme Court, his view is that they will narrowly hold the President of the United States.
Any president, keep in mind that's any president going forward or in the past, of course, is immune from criminal prosecution for official and not personal acts.
Again, Additionally, or alternatively, the court will reaffirm criminal statutes do not apply to the president unless they are explicit.
The court will then remand Jack Smith's January 6th case to D.C.
Obama Judge Tony Chutkan for an evidentiary hearing.
What does this mean?
This means essentially what the Supreme Court would do, and this is me talking now, is create a new specific and explicit standard regarding presidential immunity from criminal prosecution.
Then using that standard, they would kick it back down to the trial judge in that case to make a decision based on that new standard.
So they wouldn't be deciding it.
The trial judge would.
And this, of course, is Tanya Chutkin, not exactly a Trump fan.
Her decision is back to Davis would then be immediately appealable to the D.C. Circuit.
And then, of course, if the D.C. Circuit doesn't rule for Trump, that decision could be appealable yet again to the Supreme Court.
So the Supreme Court could take that case up even before trial.
All of this means what's extremely likely is that it would delay the January 6 case.
And here's something that's very interesting.
Their holding would even substantially affect Fannie Willis's January 6th case down in Georgia, as well as, of course, the Presidential Records Act case regarding Mar-a-Lago.
I'm told we have Megan.
We do.
Hey, Megan!
Very excited to have you on.
Thanks for having me.
It's great to be here.
Super excited.
I'm so happy that you wrote this book.
So folks, we're talking with Megan Basham.
She's a reporter for Daily Wire and she's written this new book, Shepherds for Sale, How Evangelical Leaders Traded the Truth for a Leftist Agenda.
That's a pretty strong charge, Megan.
I hope you have some receipts to back that up.
I have so many receipts.
This book is chock full of receipts.
And, you know, I mean, it's a big topic and I think it flew under the radar for a long time because It makes people uncomfortable, right, to investigate their church leaders, to question what they're doing.
So I think it's one of those things where people were noticing trends coming out of ministries, maybe Christian publications, and for a long time they didn't really want to ask questions.
So it got to the point, when I started looking into it, that it was at some pretty epidemic levels of what's been happening behind closed doors.
So we can see, and I'll say this, and you know, speaking from someone who is, you know, not evangelical, I'm a Catholic, so when I look at, but you know, I do a show with Charlie, so I have a lot of plug-ins with the evangelical world, that not his side, I would say, but among many others, you know, or you just see videos online, this type of stuff, and it seemed to me like a bunch of wokeness was like running into Uh, into the evangelical church and I was like, wait a minute.
I thought the evangelicals were like the more based ones, the more conservative ones.
Who are these types?
So tell me how this got started.
Right.
And, you know, that's what a lot of people have been noticing.
And I think the first thing you have to do is differentiate the evangelical leaders from the rank and file.
And, you know, if I could just sidetrack before we get into that really quick and explain, if you are not an evangelical and maybe you're Catholic, maybe you're a Latter-day Saint, maybe you're something else and you go, why do I care about what the evangelicals are doing?
Let me explain why you care really quick, because they are 32% of the U.S.
electorate And they have rightly been called the last bastion, the lone holdouts.
They are really the main obstacle.
Every time the left wants to do something, that 32 percent, which trends, overwhelmingly conservative, they vote GOP.
They are the ones throwing a wrench in the works.
So, you know, if you look at any issue like open borders, amnesty, anti-human fossil fuel legislation, all of that, your evangelicals are the ones who are typically standing in the way of the left getting their way.
So when you ask, why did this happen?
Well, you have a captive audience of people then who trust their church leaders, they trust their ministries, and they want to follow their faith, right?
They want to do what God wants them to do.
So that makes them a really appealing target audience to some nefarious actors.
So if we go back to around 2012, I would say right about then is when your George Soros, your Rockefeller foundations, organizations like that started to recognize these people are constantly a problem in the fact that they get in the way of our agenda.
So, I mean, there are internal documents that you can now see right around 2012-2013, where people who work in George Soros' foundations, who are leading some of those U.S.
programs, say, what are we going to do with these Christians?
How do we get them on board with our immigration, our LGBTQ rights, our abortion rights, quote-unquote, priorities?
And so that's really where it started.
Which, and you know, if you're a committed political revolutionary like those types, it's from a tactical perspective, it's actually very smart.
It's very smart to say rather than attack the church, right, rather than attack people for their religion, because that's going to initiate an immediate response, you know, this is what we do.
So I'm working on a book on anti-communism and we saw in Spain they attack the church, people respond.
In France they attack the church, people respond.
In Russia they attack the church.
And it turned into the Bolshevik Revolution, one of the most bloody revolutions in history.
And so they come to America and they realize, hold on a second, if we attack the church, if we attack Christians, people are going to have that immediate response.
So what's the smarter play to get inside the church and then start subverting it slowly by slowly, little by little, bit by bit?
What are some of the issues that they focused on early?
You know, early on, immigration has been a major issue.
Climate change has also been a major issue, but, you know, because we don't have all the time in the world right now to cover everything, I mean, I can give you just some of the examples of what's been happening in the issue of immigration, is that you have a very large organization, a sort of acknowledged left-wing foundation called the National Immigration Forum.
Well, you know, they are known as a left-wing actor, so what they did is they started a program called Bibles, Badges, and Business, Which was specifically designed to say how do we get at those more conservative constituencies and sort of come in the side door so that they are not on their guard?
And what they did was they created kind of an astroturf front group called the Evangelical Immigration Table.
And what that group did was it brought in leaders, not the rank and file, but the leaders of these various organizations, these various ministries, like, for example, the Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission.
If you're not familiar with that, it is the lobbying arm of the largest Protestant denomination in the U.S., the Southern Baptist Convention.
So that became a very ripe target for this kind of work.
So they brought in their leaders and they got their leaders to sort of put out what you might call Bible study curriculum, to put out talking points to say, God wants you to welcome the stranger.
And so they abuse scripture and say, welcome the stranger means we have to have amnesty policies.
We have to raise the cap on refugees.
We have to allow these very loose asylum policies where pretty much anybody who can get across the border is able to say, I'm an asylee.
And they're doing this in partnership, in this particular case, with groups like World Relief, who are NGOs that get a lot of money, tens of millions of dollars from the government, in order to facilitate bringing all of these people illegally across the border.
So you have ministries claiming to be working for the church, contributing to this chaos that we're seeing at the border.
And then, you know, the big headline about this group, the National Immigration Forum, who created this evangelical front group, they are taking millions of dollars from George Soros.
So, and that's what nobody knows, that, you know, that these things are not being done because people are trying to follow Scripture, that they're trying to, in the best way, practice their faith.
It's being artificially manufactured.
Precisely.
And quick break here.
And I'm going to say it because I don't want people to think that we're like, I'm just coming down on evangelicals or something.
I call out Catholic charities for doing the exact same thing all the time because it is not what we are called to be doing to facilitate breaking the law and breaking into our country.
No, absolutely not.
And no Catholic should be supporting such thing either.
Stay tuned.
We'll be right back.
Pre-order town.
Pre-order in the human.
Can't wait to get my hands on that book.
But I got a hankering.
Yearning deep inside.
For this book called Unhumans I just can't hide.
All right, Jack Posobiec, we are back live.
Megan Basham is our guest.
The book is Shepherds for Sale, all about how wokeness infiltrated the evangelical church.
Wokeness is infiltrated financially, George Soros, but Megan, what you've outlined here, and this is something I'm very interested in, how this messaging has taken over and really turned these ideas in, just gone into Scripture, sort of inverted so many of the meanings.
It's kind of like, it kind of reminds me of like when you're arguing with a leftist and they go, they like Google and cherry pick some, some Bible verse and they throw it at you as if it's like some gotcha.
Aha, now I've tricked you because I've said the verse, but that's not how we're supposed to interact with scripture.
That's not how we're supposed to do.
So you're supposed to interact with anything, by the way, because you can cherry pick any quote to make it seem And you know, I always tell people, here's one way you can know when they're doing it, is they'll have one verse.
And it's not even really an entire verse.
But what you've identified and what you go through in the book chapter and verse, unintended, is that it is part of a political agenda.
Right.
And, you know, I always tell people, here's one way you can know when they're doing it is they'll have one verse.
And it's not even really an entire verse.
It's just love your neighbor.
And I go, OK, can you tell me anything else?
And they just kind of repeat it over and over.
Right.
Love your neighbor.
I mean, to the point that we have even seen, like, Gavin Newsom put love your neighbor on billboards in relation to abortion, which is appalling.
Like, come to California, get your abortion, love your neighbor.
I mean, this is a thing that I think he learned from evangelical leaders because they were using it that way all through COVID.
With climate change, now with immigration.
So they will repeatedly sort of use these just very cheap catchphrases, use really deep theological truths and just employ them as just sort of cheap slogans to get the policies that they want.
And really what this is created to do is it's created to convince the people who vote for Republican legislators that, hey, your largest voting base really wants you to do this.
So it is a way to give them cover to enact policies that, in fact, the rank and file don't want.
Now, sometimes it has worked and sometimes it has not worked.
But I mean, if you'll just look at just recently, last month, those same evangelical groups, the Ethics and Religious Liberty Center, were touting, polling, supposedly showing evangelicals want to back Lankford's border bill.
Well, that just flew in the face of all the, you know, actual sentiment we were seeing out there.
So you had to believe that evangelicals didn't really know what they wanted until they talked to pollsters.
So that is how this game works.
It's not just about, hey, let's minister to the poor and needy, because we can have good faith debates on what our scripture, what our God, what Jesus Christ requires of us when it comes to policies like immigration.
But it wasn't a good faith debate.
It was a way to say, hey, you have to get out and lobby for this.
This is not just about ministering to the people in your community.
It's about making sure that your legislators vote the way we want them to vote.
And so that's another sort of tell when you see this particular material is the upshot of it is it's not really a discussion of scripture.
Ultimately, it always leads to Call your senators.
Call your congressmen.
Make sure that you're letting them know that this is what you want to see in Congress.
Well, and that is politicking.
That's just very obvious politicking, because now instead of informing your congregation of, say, the typical one is, are they pro-life or pro-choice?
Well, here they are on this issue, here they are on that issue.
So it's not advocating, it's educating.
But what you're describing is advocating, and it's advocating for specific issues using the scriptural text as some kind of leverage point.
And it really, it seems to me like some of these guys, what they're doing is they're conducting liberal activism and they're using the church as basically like a tax haven for it.
That's very much what they're doing.
And I do want to stress that when we talk about these scriptural discussions, they're not using, like, a deep study of, okay, what does the Hebrew mean?
What does the Greek mean when we're talking about, you know, illegal aliens?
There are different words in scripture to refer to foreigner, other words that mean, you know, stranger, and those can have different implications.
So it's not that.
It really is just sort of a cheap slogan to say, if you want to be a good Christian, you better back amnesty sort of thing.
So I don't want to come off like I am against doing deep studies on how our politics should be informed by our faith.
This is very much not that.
And then I think we have to look at how, you know, the reward system works, because then you have some of these leaders, a guy like Russell Moore, who now is the head of Christianity Today, sort of the flagship magazine of evangelicalism established by Billy Graham in 1953.
He is now using that podium to demand these kind of policies on behalf of evangelicals, and at the same time, he gets all the rewards of, hey, now he's a fellow in these very prestigious think tanks, and he's cited favorably in, you know, the Atlantic and the New York Times, and he now makes, you know, all the talking circuits, and he'll show up at, you know, Faith Engel Forum and these other very sort of prestigious getaway think tank events.
So there's very much a sort of There is a circulation of favors that go on.
There is a reward system.
And so the rank-and-file, they don't see this happening behind closed doors.
All they know is, gosh, I don't know, all of a sudden my pastor is preaching that it's really important for me to welcome the stranger and love my neighbor.
And at the end of this, there was a Bible study that told us we have to learn how to advocate for these policies.
I mean, when you see that, you should absolutely start asking questions of your pastor and go, why are you bringing in curriculum from Russell Moore into my church?
And so just one minute left.
What are some of the solutions, real quick, that you put out in your book?
So one of the biggest things that I talk about is really just first being aware of it, that this is happening, that it is, you know, it's not an accident, because a lot of people want to go, oh, well, it happens on the right, too.
I would say that there is, one, there is no moral equivalency between the policies of the Biden administration and the policies of the Trump administration.
First of all, that's a false talking point.
From a Christian perspective, these things are not morally equivalent.
And then the second thing is, is I think we got to this place where, you know, they joke amongst the Southern Baptists, they call it the Eleventh Commandment.
Thou shalt not talk badly about other Christians publicly, your Christian leaders publicly.
I think we have to move past that, and we have to start doing what we saw Paul do to the Apostle Peter when he was in the wrong.
He could still be a brother, but somebody needed to go, hey, you're wrong here, and you need to repent and stop doing this.
And I think we've gotten far beyond the point where we need to do that.
Amen.
The great Megan Basham, thank you so much.
Honored to have you on.
Go follow her on X, by the way.
One of the best follows you will find out there.
Go get the book, Shepherds For Sale.
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