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Nov. 30, 2023 - Human Events Daily - Jack Posobiec
49:36
EPISODE 616: THE TRUTH ABOUT GENDER IDENTITY DISORDER

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A commentator, international social media sensation, Today is Thursday, November 30th, 2023.
Anno Domini.
Today we've got a special episode for you.
your host, Jack Posobiec.
Deliver us from evil.
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome aboard today's edition of Human Events Daily.
Today is Thursday, November 30th, 2023, Anno Domini.
Today we've got a special episode for you, The Truth About Gender Identity Disorder.
And we've got two detransitioners that are going to be joining us, Ali London and Chloe Cole.
They're going to tell you not only the truth about this movement, but they're going to tell you about how they themselves found themselves sucked into this rabbit hole, sucked into this world of likes and clicks and retweets that every time they made an alteration sucked into this world of likes and clicks and retweets that every time they made an alteration to their body in the name of gender, They were then rewarded from this toxic online community.
You know, you hear the media talk about toxic influencers and toxic internet, but guess what?
This is the truth.
And they give you two very personal and powerful interviews.
Check it out.
Oli London.
Now, you may know Oli, you may have read the book, but Oli, if you can, please introduce yourself to the Human Events audience.
Hey, well, thank you so much for having me first, Jack.
So my name's Ollie London.
I'm an author of the upcoming book, Gender Madness.
I was also previously struggling for many years with identity issues.
I was transgender and then I later de-transitioned and now I've become an ambassador, you know, fighting for gays against groomers, fighting against, you know, the gender ideology that's tearing so many communities apart.
Well, I mean, that's incredible because it's you, you've been working on all this, you've been doing gays against groomers.
Um, you've got the book coming out and then this week, all of a sudden, and I think this issue had been something that a lot of people knew about.
There was a lot of interest in, there's been a lot of discussion about, but suddenly this week here in the United States, we have this horrific act down in Nashville, Tennessee and for Christians and just for Americans in general.
And I think everyone in the West are trying to make, make some sense of, of how could something like this happen?
How could someone become so radicalized to commit an act like going after children?
And there are people questioning as to whether or not this ideology played a role in this attack in Nashville.
So let me let me ask you this first off.
Do you think it's possible?
Do you think it's possible that this ideology led to that?
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, we of course need to see the manifesto, but I really do believe that the Nashville Police Chief said there was a credible substance to the claim that this was motivated by radicalised gender ideology.
We also need to note as well, this individual only transitioned and became transgender within the last couple of years.
So their friends at high school, they described them as normal, as shy, as sweet.
So something has happened within the last couple of years that has really pushed this person To become so extreme and so radicalised that they would do that to a Christian community.
So I definitely think gender ideology.
We look at the rhetoric now, you know, we have so many trans organisations calling for retaliation in Tennessee based on the law that's banning gender affirming care that just went into law just a few weeks ago.
So we're seeing this increased hate and rhetoric coming from the trans activist community.
Not all of them, but there's a growing portion of people in that community that are calling for violence and more extreme measures.
So I really believe that has played a significant part, if not the leading factor, in what happened here.
Well, that's right.
In fact, it wasn't even anyone on the right or conservatives that started saying it.
We had ABC News and mainstream media here in the United States that in the wake of this, before we even really knew all the facts, that were clearly pointing out that this obviously took place in Tennessee just a few weeks after this law Was passed and so the heat seemed to have been on now.
We also know there's some some connection.
She went to the school.
She may or may not have known the pastor of the school pastors and just just since we're talking about the investigation the pastor's own daughter who attended the school was one of the victims and so it certainly appears that there's also a this personal element to the entire thing.
So if you can because you know this story from your own story Can you walk us through this process of how does someone first get involved in this ideology, you know, coming to it from the first place?
Because we've seen some of the photos of this Audrey Hale, and she seems to be just a sweet, young girl from, again, from Middle Tennessee, pretty traditional family, going to a Christian school.
How do you go from that to being involved in this ideology?
Right.
And absolutely.
Like most of her school friends, when she went to school, you know, they all had good things to say about her.
They said, you know, she was shy.
They did say she was an outcast and she was always different, though.
But the real issue is this kind of ideology has become a very recent phenomenon.
We weren't having these issues 10 years ago.
You know, nobody had even heard of kids being medically transitioned.
This is a very recent phenomenon that spurred on within the last five years.
We've had an increase in the paediatric clinics in America.
There's now 60.
60 plus.
There were none a decade ago.
So there's an increased rise.
There's schools teaching now this ideology, telling kids about sex education.
So there's a real cultural shift and there's a push to try and normalise this.
And, you know, many people didn't have a problem with anyone being trans, you know, five, ten years ago.
It wasn't until they started medically transitioning kids, tearing families apart, taking away parental rights, that this became an issue.
So, you know, when it comes to someone Wanting to change.
I think there are so many factors.
There are a very small minority of people that do generally feel that way their whole life, you know, since they were born.
But we have to look at the fact the majority of kids these days are going with a trend.
They're going with what's being pushed on them.
And there are also many of these kids that they may just as a teenager, they're just struggling with an identity.
You know, they might be, you know, it might be to do with their sexuality.
They might be gay, lesbian or bi.
And they're being told by adults, by teachers, That they are in the wrong gender, so they must be affirmed immediately.
So this is what's causing real harm.
And then when you're putting young people on high doses of testosterone or estrogen, when you're giving them surgeries, you know, this has a severe effect on the body.
It leads to bone density issues, heart attack increases.
It also changes the chemical imbalance in the brain.
So what will be interesting to see with the Nashville investigation Was this individual on a high dose of testosterone?
Because that can lead to severe anger issues and that could have played a factor in this person becoming radicalised and violent.
We know the fact that this Audrey Hale was under the care of a doctor for an unspecified emotional disorder.
We need to find out, was that related to them being transgender and were they being pumped with abnormally high doses of testosterone?
Because of course, you know, given the age here, this, I mean, we, we keep talking to her about her as a, uh, as a girl, but she does 28 years old.
She's, she's a, she's an adult young woman.
Um, so if those indeed procedures were going on under the current Tennessee law, her parents would not have been required to be informed of this because, because again, she's 28 years old.
She's a 20 year old woman.
Still living with the parents, so they may have known some things, but apparently she was able to hide these guns, hide this arsenal of guns that she had from them, so I don't know exactly what level of scrutiny.
It's certainly possible that all of that could have been done without the parents' knowledge whatsoever.
At 28, I mean, she could easily be able to walk into any doctor and do this.
But so, that's also kind of my question, I guess, because, you know, we talk about the targeting of children, but this wasn't a child.
This is someone who was an adult, yet somehow Targeted children, so it seems as though there's an angle of that right and yet this person herself was not a child So somehow she was she fell through and I personally believe that it's it that social media that the internet and specifically reddit there's been some Discussion that she may have had a reddit account.
They found some accounts that have similar profile names to some of the screen names that she used on other platforms.
So you can't say for sure whether or not it was her.
But we do know that certainly there's a lot of these out there.
It started with certainly Tumblr, but then with Reddit and TikTok, I think these sub communities online have become a sort of echo chamber for this type of ideology.
Would you agree with that?
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, you know, before we had social media, before we had TikTok, we didn't really have so many problems.
You know, kids, you know, always struggle with identity, but we didn't have such a severe problem like we have today.
Of course, this person, Audrey Hale, was 28.
But, you know, we need to find out what were they looking at online, because there is an increased radicalisation in the trans activist community.
There's constant calls of violence.
So when the Tennessee law was passed, there were multiple organizations that are well known that were pushing for retaliation in Tennessee.
So that's what needs to come out in the investigation, because we need to see who were these people?
Who was this person communicating with online?
Were they in these communities that were changing their mind and almost brainwashing them into having hate?
Because unfortunately, there's so much hate happening right now.
We tend to see in the news, the mainstream media, we see the extremes, you know, one extreme to the other.
We don't see, you know, what else is going on.
So I think these people in these communities, they're seeing the extremes going on.
They think, oh, trans rights are being taken away.
We're under attack.
There's a trans genocide, when really it's not.
Nobody had an issue until they started doing this to children, you know, sexualizing children.
You know, we just had Libby Emmons on the other day talking about this.
This this transgenocide and it's you can go to wikipedia.com right now and there's a whole article with paragraph chapter after chapter of the transgenocide and you know, I'm sitting here thinking is the transgenocide in the room with us right now.
Where is the transgenocide?
I was I was completely unaware that this was going on or there are there, you know, the the anti trans death squad storming the nation right now.
I mean, what what exactly are they talking about?
I mean, they tend to use that word all the time.
They keep saying, you know, their rights are being taken away.
There's a trans genocide.
But it's really not.
Because if you look at any protest that involves trans activists and, you know, against women or people that are Christian or conservative, it's always the trans activists.
That used the violence.
It's never the other side.
So there's no transit genocide going on.
Of course, trans people struggle.
There are people that, you know, do get assaulted in any community.
Now, we saw the rise in Asian hate crimes since Covid.
So any community has violence.
Most of the violence in the trans community is actually sexual based violence.
So it's nothing to do with someone because of their identity.
So, you know, when they're saying about this non-existent genocide and suddenly, you know, six people from the Christian community had their lives taken by a trans No, that's exactly right.
We are coming up on a break.
Ali London, make sure to go to the site, check out the book.
the trans community either going on about the genocide when other people are being killed because likely of this ideology.
No, that's exactly right.
We are coming up on a break.
Ali London, make sure to go to the site, check out the book.
I want to hold you on because I want to get more into, we can speculate what Audrey Hale's story is, but you know your story, you can tell your story.
And when we come back here on Human Events, I'd like to ask you to tell your story because it might shed some light into these questions, these burning questions that so many people are asking that when we have, look, and as a Christian, as a father of two little boys, when I see a little and as a Christian, as a father of two little boys, when I see a little girl lying dead at the foot of the cross in a Stay tuned, come back, Ali London.
And we're back with Ali London, the author of the forthcoming book, Gender Madness, about this ideology, the radicalization and your own personal story.
Now, we don't know the story yet of Audrey Hale.
It is yet to be written.
And yet your story has been written.
So I was hoping that you could share that with us for our audience to understand and see if we can find any points of overlap between what's going on here.
Yes, so I wrote Gender Madness basically to help a variety of people.
So I want to help people that struggle with identity, particularly young people, because this is one of the most pressing issues of our time right now.
We're seeing thousands and thousands of young people question their identity and want to change themselves when really they should try to focus on finding happiness from within.
So, you know, part of my book covers my struggle with identity.
I've had so many struggles over the years.
What led to that?
So we look at these kids.
Many kids get bullied.
Many kids want to fit in.
Many of the kids that are being diagnosed with gender dysphoria have underlying issues.
A lot of them have autism, a lot of them have bipolar, severe depression.
So we're looking at the correlation.
So my book explores all of those subjects.
It's also exploring what is driving this growing number of young people to want to transition.
So I've got multiple chapters on the influence of TikTok, how that suddenly came about in 2018.
And then that's when we really started to see a huge rise in the numbers of kids wanting to transition.
It's almost become a trend.
So I also discussed that, the social media implications, How the education system is changing as well in particularly a lot of my book is about America.
I've spent a lot of time in America.
No, a lot of these schools now in the woke school districts are pushing gender ideology on kids and the parents have no idea.
So they're basically encouraging these kids to change their gender before the child even really has a concept of gender.
So the book explores all of that.
I also have chapters on the different state laws and the current legislation being passed.
Either banning gender-affirming care or trying to not ban it.
So I'm looking at all those different laws and how we as a society can stop this happening to children.
How we can protect women's rights, protect parents' rights, while also being compassionate.
You know, it's important to understand that many of these people, these young people, they're really struggling with their mental health.
They're struggling to fit in.
But, you know, gender-affirming care is not the solution.
Putting these kids on hormones is only going to amplify the problems they face.
So the book covers all those issues.
It's also about my faith journey, how, you know, I got to a point in life I was so obsessed with trying to look a certain way and become a different person.
I really lost my identity.
So it's about finding identity and how we as a society can come together to fight this gender ideology that's harming so many people across America.
Well, can you tease that out for us a little bit?
So you say you lost your identity And then you went on a faith journey.
What does that mean?
Can you walk us through that?
So since I was a teenager, I really did struggle with myself.
So I used to get severely bullied and that was all related to my looks.
I was always a lot more feminine.
I used to prefer doing girls things like playing with Barbie dolls.
So I used to get bullied a lot because of my femininity.
And as an adult, I started having plastic surgery to just to try and improve myself.
And that kind of became an addiction because I was using that as an outlet to try and deal with my past traumas when instead I should have gone to therapy.
I should have tackled these things face on.
I resorted to, you know, going through this surgical journey, which now I've realized was like self-harming.
You know, I was enjoying at the time the pain I was going through because I felt I deserved it.
So I went through that journey.
I got to a certain stage.
That's fascinating.
So that you just equated This, this using plastic surgery as an outlet to self harm the same way we might consider, um, uh, you know, cutting that, that goes on for teens and preteens.
Um, that for you though, because they both require, or they both, um, uh, include this, this, this, this pain element to it.
So that's so interesting to me that you draw a parallel between essentially between the two.
Yeah, I mean, it was an outlet to deal with pain.
And I think that's what many young people do these days.
You know, when you see young teenage girls having double mastectomies and then proudly showing their scars on TikTok, I really think, you know, they must be struggling with a lot of mental health struggles.
And, you know, doctors have a responsibility not to do that to them, you know, because if somebody was anorexic, you wouldn't give them liposuction.
So why on earth would you give a child that's struggling with their mental health you know, a double mastectomy.
It just doesn't make sense.
So I really believe, you know, these kids, it's an outlet.
They want to almost self-harm inflict pain on themselves because they don't fit in.
They maybe get bullied and they're just trying to, you know, be included in this kind of very harmful trend of, you know, self-harming and body mutilation in the name of gender.
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I mean, look, there have been so many fads that go through.
Everyone knows that when you're in teenage years, fads are Um, are the most highly susceptible.
So that's, you know, I remember when, for me, when I was going through high school, you know, you had, you had the goths and you had, uh, or you wore flannel, you know, in the nineties because Kurt Cobain wore flannel and you were, you were doing the grunge thing and everything was, you know, baggy jeans.
And that was, those are actually coming back a little bit now.
If you've noticed that the zoomers kind of have this sort of like retro nineties thing going on the same way that in the nineties, there was a retro seventies thing going on.
And yet that didn't include these extremes of behavior that we're starting to see now.
But let me ask you as well, because with social media, it almost serves to validate those types of behaviors, doesn't it?
And in fact, reward them to some extent.
Absolutely.
I mean, I talk about this in my book.
So basically what's happening now is these kids that are struggling with loneliness, they're struggling to accept themselves.
Maybe they're getting bullied.
They desperately want to fit in.
So they go on to apps like TikTok.
They see very successful influencers like Dylan Mulvaney that gets millions of views, that gets praise.
And they want that too.
You know, what child doesn't want to fit in?
What child doesn't want to be called?
Oh yeah, gets invited to the White House!
I know, right?
And all those brand deals as well.
So, you know, so, you know, these kids want to get validated.
So when they see someone that's sharing their transition journey online, I guarantee you all those videos get so many likes, they get so many views.
It's all praise.
It's all positivity.
So the kids that are questioning themselves or have been indoctrinated to question themselves, they want that too.
They want to be validated.
So they start to slowly change.
Maybe they grow their hair, they put on some makeup.
Suddenly they get praise, that's positive reinforcement, so they continue doing more and more extreme.
And it's, you know, these days it's all about likes and views to feel good about yourself, when really we should be, you know, switching off the social media for kids, let them go play outdoors, let them go to church, you know, let them go do soccer or outdoor activities, instead of spending all the time on TikTok trying to seek validation, because it's only going to amplify the problems they already have.
No, you're exactly right this this is what they're doing is they're short-circuiting the dopamine cycle in the brain and they're creating it's people refer to this as love bombing people it can be it can be used to manipulate people in many ways and certainly with children you're already dealing with undeveloped brains developing brains this idea that you know you're going to flood so much of this at them.
I mean, these types of techniques work on adults too, by the way, but when you're kids, you have no defenses whatsoever to it.
So the idea that we're pushing this with kids and then rewarding it for kids, it's completely dangerous.
So how did you, and I'll ask this question, might be a little sensitive, but you know, tell me what you think, how did you pull back?
How did you begin to change?
You know, was there a moment?
Was there a pivot point?
What was it for you that led you to that inflection?
So I basically felt like I got to the end of the road.
I've been doing so many surgeries over a number of years.
I really struggled to accept myself and I still wasn't happy.
And I thought, you know, I've done all this surgery.
I've had, Um, facial feminization.
I had all my bones shaved down.
I've had six nose surgeries, three eye surgeries, three facelifts.
So I'd basically done so much extreme and I was thinking, what else can I do to, you know, make myself feel better?
And I was thinking, okay, I can either do more surgery or, you know, I was reaching a point where I was maturing and I was actually taking some time out from life.
And I was thinking, what am I actually doing?
You know, I can either, you know, the famous Robert Frost poem, um, two roads less traveled.
You can either take one road that leads to something that is unexpected or you can take the path you're already on.
I decided to go down the road that was unexpected, take a step back, go to church and just reflect on what I was doing to myself because I was harming myself, but I was also harming people that watch me on TikTok and watch me on Instagram because I get a lot of views on there.
And no, I had a duty to be a good role model for these people.
So it really made me reflect and want to actually realise I need to find the real me that's been trapped inside all these years.
That's actually incredible.
Wow.
So you just... Now, for church, was that part of your family life when you were younger?
Was there someone that was calling you there, or was it just sort of more an internal decision?
So I'd always been spiritual, but what's interesting, I was actually atheist most of my life.
When I was a kid, I did used to go to a church school in England.
So I'd been to church many times as a kid.
I had very familiar memories.
But you know, as an adult, I just kind of lost touch with that and just kind of didn't really believe in anything.
And I think, you know, the fact that I didn't believe in anything really was why I was so misguided, why I was so lost.
I was lost in the wilderness.
So it wasn't until I started going to church again that I really found some sense of purpose.
It made me think about life more, you know.
Life is more than just getting surgery.
Life is more than just trying to change who you are.
It's actually better to accept who you are, to feel good about yourself, and then to try and help other people.
That's much more important.
God bless.
Ali London, thank you so much for sharing your story with us, for your journey, and for writing the book.
Tell people where can they follow you, and how do they pre-order the book?
Thank you, Jack.
So I'm very active on Twitter, it's OliLondonTV, also Truth Social, OliLondon, Instagram London Oli, and my book is available for pre-order now, Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Books A Million and all good other book retailers.
Thank you.
All right, folks, welcome back here.
Someone that I've been meaning to have on the show for the longest time is Chloe Cole, our next guest.
She is one of the most outspoken detransitioners in the country.
She's currently suing Kaiser Permanente, which I completely support.
And please go and support that fundraiser if you can.
Chloe, thank you so much for joining us here on Human Events.
Thank you for having me.
So before we get into that, I do want to get into that, but I've got to ask you about this week.
We're sitting and we're watching this, so much going on, which seems like with this trans movement is hitting all at once.
And we were told this was the trans week of visibility, the trans day of vengeance.
There's a shooting conducted by a transgender woman in Nashville, Tennessee, attacking a Christian school.
They're storming the capitals in Kentucky, in Tennessee, they stormed the capital in Oklahoma last month.
What is going on with this movement?
How has this become such a force in America?
Right, so a lot of people are making this up to either be a gun issue or a transgender issue.
They're saying that either guns or this entire group of people are inherently dangerous.
But I think that's, I think both those arguments are pretty disingenuous.
I think that it's really a mental health issue.
This is a group of people that is being strongly misled and They're being failed by people who should be... Sorry.
People who should know better.
Right.
They're being fed the idea that not only they can actually transition to something that they're not, that they can become the opposite sex or another sex entirely, but that they're oppressed.
They're an oppressed group and they should fight tooth and nail for the rights.
It's like, and you hear this and it seems like it's happening more in conservative states, right?
And because these bills are being passed and they're being told not that, not that, oh, this is a new bill.
They're actually being told that this is a genocide, that this is the stripping of rights, that this is the taking away of health care.
And what kind of emotion does that elicit from a person who's told those things and believes them?
Right, they think their lives are being threatened because they're being told that their rights are being taken away, that their health care is being stripped of them, stripped from them.
And obviously, this is not true.
Chloe, we have to understand that there's something driving all of these events that we're seeing, whether it's in Tennessee at a Christian school or the Tennessee Capitol or in Kentucky or in Oklahoma last month, that there is a movement behind this.
And we're trying, we're struggling to understand what is this movement?
Who is behind it?
Who are the people benefiting from it?
Right, it's very ideologically driven.
They push transition as the only means of treating gender dysphoria and anything else is conversion therapy.
It's genocide.
And because legislators, especially in these red states, are trying to stop practice of childhood transition and improve the model of care for these kids, they are painting it as something As a human rights issue that these kids are having their livelihood, their health care stripped away from them.
And I have one thing that I've noticed.
I travel around a lot and I travel around a lot and I testify on legislature across the US and a lot of these in a lot of these red states that I've testified in.
The activists during these hearings are a lot more desperate.
They're a lot more vocal.
They often interrupt the hearing by making a show of themselves, by shouting, by laughing.
And I often get shouted at when I'm leaving the room.
And I think part of that is because they're more desperate.
Their ideology is losing.
No, when they target you in these events, have you been personally threatened by this movement?
Have they passed credible threats to you in any way?
Yeah, I actually hosted a rally earlier this month at the California Capitol.
In California, right.
Yeah, it wasn't political in any way.
It was just about people like me who had been harmed by the affirmative care model and detransitioned.
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It's a great gift and something that will keep on moving throughout the year.
Antifa had to step in and make it a political thing, and I got dozens of threats over Twitter.
Luckily, police kept the riots away from the actual event, but they showed up at a local park and they actually destroyed media equipment and assaulted several people.
Outside of that, I've gotten... I can't even count the number of threats that I've gotten online.
Threats of physical assault, of rape, and I've been doxxed.
Chloe, we're coming up on a break right now, but I'd like, if we can, for in the next segment, because we do have you for one more segment, I'd love for you to share that story with us and to tell our audience your story.
Because I think, as we look into what happened with Nashville, we don't know all the details, but your story might be able to show and shine some light on it.
Stay tuned, folks.
We'll be right back with more with Chloe Cole.
And we're back with Chloe Cole.
Chloe, in our last segment, you know, you shared with us some very powerful testimony, and I would say that that was testimony about what this movement is doing to this country, the radicalization of the youth in many cases, but also other members of society like this Audrey Hale down in Tennessee.
But I wondered if you can, to share with us your story for the audience, We know about the law that you're suing Kaiser Permanente now, but take us back to when you yourself first encountered the transgender movement, transgenderism online as an ideology, and walk us through what that was like for you.
So my first exposure to it was through the internet, through social media.
I got my first phone when I was 11 and the first social media app that I really used was Instagram and I'd say that I was a pretty vulnerable kid in a lot of ways because I was a little bit more on the gender non-conforming side.
I was more of a tomboy and I had some body image issues.
I started puberty pretty early and I became pretty conscious of that from a very young age and I was being Fed a lot of these images of women that I just, I felt like I couldn't match up to.
And on top of that, I was in the communities that, um, that I would browse, um, on things like video games and shows that I watched.
There were a lot of other kids and young adults who identified as either gay, lesbian, bisexual, or overwhelmingly transgender.
A lot of them were non-binary or they identified as the opposite sex and I started seeing a lot of posts that were specifically about transitioning and gender and sexuality and because I was at a pretty, I was at an age where naturally I would start to wonder like about myself, where I stood in the world, where Who I was attracted to and what role I would fill in the world.
And after being exposed to stuff for so long, I started to wonder about my own sexuality and gender identity.
And after a while, it just made sense that as a very masculine girl who never fit in, never really felt very pretty, It just made sense that this whole time I was a boy.
And I started to change myself in pursuit of that.
I started to cut my hair short.
I started to wear different clothing.
And I tried to act more like the boys at school and even change my name.
I came out to my parents when I was 12 going on 13 and their reaction was to take me to a therapist because they didn't know how to handle this.
They didn't know anything about this and they thought that it would be best to get a professional involved.
But what ended up happening was that my Delusion of actually being the opposite sex was affirmed.
I was treated as if I were a boy.
They only referred to me by my preferred name, by my preferred pronouns, and they didn't go by anything else.
They never even went into the underlying issues that I had.
And what they knew of, they didn't address.
It was just treated as a completely standalone issue from my gender dysphoria.
And they told my parents later that in an appointment they had, I don't think I was there for this actually, so I couldn't really refute anything that was, that was said.
And I didn't, I didn't know what they were, what they were telling my parents at the time, but they told my parents that if I wasn't allowed to transition, then it was very likely that I would kill myself.
And this was when, at the time, I was starting to ask my parents to take me to an appointment to put me on hormones, because I thought that that was the natural progression of things, that it was the only means of treating gender dysphoria, and that I should be on these treatments, ideally as early as possible, because that was how the trans community represented things, that was how
The research that I did, both from the community and from official medical resources, seemed to point to this as the only way of treating my condition.
Did your parents question the doctors at all?
Did they ever have a time where they pushed back and said, this seems extreme?
And of course, you want to trust your doctor.
But obviously, some of the things that you're talking about here are quite extreme.
And certainly, Uh, shall we say not, not, not exactly commonly, you know, commonly understood.
I mean, I, I don't think people are used to, and certainly at that age, these types of procedures going on.
So was there any, was there any level of pushback like that?
Yeah, there, there was actually, they, they were okay with me changing the way I dressed and they tried to go along with my name change, but they didn't want to, they didn't want me to be making Any permanent decisions.
They didn't want that on their hands.
They didn't want me to make any choices that I very well could regret as an adult.
And they told this to the doctors.
They voiced their concerns and they were just ignored.
And so at that point, I know at some point, and obviously you've told the story before, at what point did they go from not just blockers and hormones but to actual surgery?
Right, so just About half a year after I was diagnosed with gender dysphoria was when I was put on blockers.
And a month after that was when I was put on testosterone.
And they actually broke their protocol for gender dysphoric children.
That seems so fast.
I'm sorry, that's shocking to me.
That seems so fast.
That seems extremely aggressive.
Yeah, it was actually pretty similar with the surgery even.
I started treatment at 13 and two years later, after my sophomore year, was when I underwent surgery.
And my first appointment for that was roughly around the same time period.
It was about half a year before that went.
So it's half a year, it's half a year.
And then, so at this point, you know, you've undergone all this.
Are you feeling though, at some point, you talked about the feelings that you had when you were online, you were interacting with this content online, other users, and that you were feeling these feelings of not fitting in.
At any point, did you feel those feelings go away?
Did you start to feel like you fit in?
Did you start to feel like you were actually becoming your true self?
With each treatment, there was like a honeymoon period.
Once I started on testosterone, which I was in my eighth grade year and I hadn't really come out to anybody yet.
I wasn't initially accepted by my peers when I started transitioning because I mean, I mostly attribute it to the fact that I was in middle school and people just aren't nice, especially towards kids who present differently.
But once I was in high school, I was on testosterone for long enough that my voice was fairly deep.
Deeper than most boys my age at the time, actually.
I appeared to be just like any other boy my age.
And nobody other than people who I went to elementary and middle school with knew that I even was a biological female.
And there were a few instances when I was outed behind my back.
But for the most part, nobody knew and they just saw me as another one of the boys.
And there was kind of that comfort of being able to make male friends and be as part of a group.
And seemingly be accepted for who, at the time, who I thought I was.
But that went away after a while.
Reality started setting in and my relationships weren't as close anymore.
I didn't really have a lot of room to talk about my feelings or my personal struggles and my dating pool was really severely limited by this.
I mean, everybody, a lot of my other friends were getting into relationships and getting girlfriends and boyfriends, but I I was somebody who appeared to outwardly be male, but I was still attracted to males, and this proved very difficult.
There were a few people, there were a few guys who expressed interest in me, but it often felt like, if anything, I was just an object of A fetish mostly.
You mentioned being on testosterone.
What did that feel like?
What changes did you notice when you're on testosterone?
Yeah, so I was on the blockers first.
And I was already about like three or four years into puberty before I started on them.
And I'd already been having the period for almost two years by that point.
So it basically sent me into a state of menopause.
I had pretty much no sex hormones in my body.
My sex drive went all the way down.
I was very lethargic and I was getting hot flashes and itching all over my body and I felt pretty depressed.
I just wanted to move on to the next step.
And so once I started on testosterone, naturally, I felt great.
All my energy was back and I had a massive spike in my sex drive and I felt I started to develop a competitive streak and I became more confident.
But at the same time, it was a little bit more difficult to regulate my emotions, particularly My anger.
Yeah, and you mentioned this this aggression they and they they've said and they showed study after study shows this that testosterone of course increases aggression.
It's something by the way that men deal with at an early age that we You know, we are prone to anger a lot more because of men's physical stature, even when you're young, right?
That's why there's a lot of fistfights that go on.
I've got two little boys, you know, I've got to pull them apart from time to time when they want to They're both going for the same toy or something and and then even that continues on into you mentioned middle school then even high school to some extent and and you learn that you have to you have to regulate that yourself right because you don't want to just go through life um answering everything with aggression and anger and physical uh you know physical um you know violence in some cases but but we also and I think Jordan Peterson even mentions this that he talks about how all
All male-to-male relations have this sort of underlying subtext of, you know, we could do this another way, but we're going to, you know, we're going to do this through talk and speech, but I can't even imagine that if you're just being Yeah, and I didn't grow up with that.
It just came on suddenly.
in an aggressive way, very, sounds like very ramped up and straight surgery, that there's no explanation whatsoever about how to deal with these things or what changes to expect or how you should act because there's no playbook whatsoever.
Yeah.
And I didn't grow up with that.
Yeah.
It just came on suddenly.
It was very abrupt.
Yeah.
So how would you know?
Because I'm sure, are they sitting there talking to you, explaining to you that this is how you have to deal with it?
Everything that they talked about with me was in very vague terms.
And of course, it was being given to me.
It was the The prescription for these things were given to me by a female, so she wouldn't understand.
I don't mean to laugh.
I'm just saying, of course, right?
Because that's ridiculous.
Because someone who has no idea what any of these hormones even feel like.
So you've got to the point where you've launched this lawsuit, and I apologize because we're coming up on time, but tell us a little bit about the lawsuit.
What specifically are you seeking here, and how can people get involved?
Yeah, so Harmeet Dhillon with the Center for American Liberty is my attorney, and
We filed the suit recently, just a few weeks ago, and the parties that we're suing are my surgeon, the hospital that I had surgery at, my gender specialist who referred me to surgery, and an endocrinologist who put me on hormones, as well as Kaiser Permanente, which is both my healthcare provider and my insurance provider.
So it's a pretty huge undertaking, but My hope in this lawsuit is that not only that I can get justice for myself and get the care that I need, because I haven't gotten any help with any of the complications that I've had with transitioning or even with going through detransition.
But I also want to, I hope that I can create a precedent for other deep conditioners and other people who have been harmed through these treatments to be able to get justice for themselves as well.
That's absolutely great.
Where can people go to find out more about that and where to follow you?
So my lawsuit, the information and the fundraiser for my lawsuit is available on the Center for American Liberty website.
And I, I'm active on Twitter and Instagram at C-H-O-O-C-O-L-E.
Chloe Cole, God bless you.
Thank you.
Seriously, thank you so much for sharing so much of your story with us.
That was incredible.
And I know for the folks back home who want to get involved, please go follow Chloe.
Please donate to her lawsuit.
We need to share this story with as many people as possible so we can understand what's going on and help other people that are caught in the same situation.
Again, God bless you.
God bless your family.
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