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Nov. 7, 2019 - Project Camelot

01:44:26

ROBERT KIVIAT, PRODUCER & PAUL PRICE, TECHNOLOGIST, WITNESS COURT CASE THAT COULD END UFO SECRECY

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	sad music sad music sad music sad music sad music sad music *sad
	music* Hi everyone.
	I'm Carrie Cassidy from Project Camelot, and we have a very fascinating show for you tonight.
	So we have two people on the air, and it's going to be Robert Kvyat, and he's a producer, a television producer, documentary maker, and writer, and director, and he is quite well known.
	He's known for A number of great shows and things that are actually available on Amazon and other networks, I think on Netflix as well.
	So Bob, are you there?
	Yes, yes, Carrie.
	Yes, yes, Carrie.
	Thank you for that.
	Very nice.
	Okay, no problem.
	And then we have with us also Paul Price.
	And Paul, are you with us?
	Yes.
	Hold it.
	Hold it.
	Okay, great.
	So, and we've got Paul Price, and now I'm going to just make sure the chat is not having any issue with the sound.
	Hopefully they can hear us.
	And just let me know, because we do have a live chat room, if there's an issue with the sound.
	That would be great.
	So, hold on one second.
	Anyway, at this point, what we're going to be talking about is a court case that Robert Kvyat is involved in.
	Robert Kvyat.
	Hello?
	Okay.
	And if we can keep each other muted at this point when you're not talking, that would be great.
	So what I wanted to say was that Robert Kvyat is involved in a court case and Paul Price is a technologist and he is a key witness in what will be the trial, assuming it goes to trial.
	And it is scheduled now for, I believe, sometime in February.
	So I'm going to let Bob Kvyat start here and he may not be able to be with us for the whole show.
	He's going to lead off by describing the case to us and getting us up to speed on that.
	And then if you go to Project Camelot.tv, my website, you can get all the paperwork that is accompanying this, including the article by Cal Korf, a journalist who has written about this story.
	And I've also got a description of the bio of the writer, Cal Korf, for people there, as well as a link to my previous interview with Bob Kvyat.
	in which he explained what he was planning to do back then to get this sort of case off the ground.
	So Bob, are you there?
	Yes, I think you introduced it.
	What I spoke to you about a while ago was in the early stages of this whole thing.
	It's reached a much deeper level now.
	Just to summarize what we're talking about, CalCOR for an article the last couple of weeks that outlined the entire case.
	My case sort of dovetails into many other things that Cal wrote about.
	But mostly at this point, the court case is to, on the surface, to be paid for, I would say, about eight months or seven months of dedicated work to try to put a focus through news media, entertainment, documentary, news programming, whatever.
	I was hired by Joe Firmage's Board of Directors back in the late December 2017.
	What Joe made very clear to me was he wanted it to be the To the Stars Academy that really wasn't To the Stars Academy.
	He felt that To the Stars Academy with his former associate Hal Puthoff I've basically stolen a concept of an academy, merging scientific theory and somewhat, I would say, pseudoscientific theory with what well could be advanced propulsion and UFO research and observations of UFOs that appear to be flying in certain ways,
	maybe using some sort of anti-gravitical, gyroscopic kind of spinning technology.
	So I thought it was interesting to get involved.
	I was hired by contract.
	My Beverly Hills attorney lawyered the contract very carefully.
	Joe had an urgency to begin right around January 1st, 2018.
	He had me talk to investors.
	He had me talk to many people before bringing in my network TV and news contacts and those type of people into the operation.
	But basically, Joe was under the impression that he had funding from a congressman, Daniel Marriott, Daniel Marriott, though he denies promising Joe the investment capital to, one, hire me and also do all the other things that Joe wanted to do,
	it's pretty self-evident that Daniel Marriott was involved from the beginning, using whatever amount of monies he could justify giving Joe, whether it be loans to cover expenses, whether it be to pay bills, including a very small amount toward my salary.
	So over the seven months or so, eight months that I was very dedicated to this operation, it became clear that Ron Pindolfi was very involved.
	And Joe had told me very much from the beginning, which is documented and my lawyer will make clear at trial, that...
	Ron Pandolfi's CIA background to being a scientist, if he was involved with Joe, that lended credibility to whatever Joe was doing.
	Joe made it very clear in the early, early stages, even before being hired officially, that Ron was directly involved in assessing his technology, trying to understand it at one point and also help nurture it at other times.
	And what's most interesting is Ron seems to have been very involved in having an individual named Kevin Alba operate like his eyes and ears, watching Joe carefully, helping Joe whenever Joe needed help.
	And basically one thing led to another, and I actually inadvertently helped this individual, Kevin Albers, show up at Joe's house in Salt Lake City because he was being sent by another one of Ron's kind of operatives named Dan Smith.
	They were sending him through bus, basically via a bus from Virginia or North Carolina.
	Basically, he was coming actually from Chris Bledsoe's house, which is pretty bizarre.
	Why would he or Ron or anybody be interested in Chris Bledsoe?
	And that's another story completely.
	Some alleged contactee, having contact with someone named the lady, maybe was some sort of angelic being, whatever.
	That individual, Kevin Albers, was coming across the country from Chris Bledsoe's house to start operations.
	But what is most important in my case, and I think it'll become very obvious at trial, is that when Joe started this whole thing and signed me up with a contract, he started off with a kind of group meeting, a video conference, where Ron Pandolfi's representative, a video conference, where Ron Pandolfi's representative, as it was presented to me, Kevin Albers, was going to be appearing at this teleconference from Ron's house.
	Literally from Ron's house, where he was apparently watching over their child, Ron and his wife's child.
	And so the initial stage for me joining this company was, I was told not to talk to Ron.
	Kevin Albers would be Ron's spokesperson.
	And Kevin went off and approved certain things via email that Ron allegedly okayed.
	And that's generally the story for me.
	That's how it all came together, and I tried my best to keep up with it from the beginning, and it took about six, seven months to become very clear that, one, Joe could not raise any money.
	A lot of people doubted his integrity.
	Doubted his honesty.
	I was not to judge that.
	I was to work with Joe and try to put the best possible communications together as I could.
	I didn't see any direct signs that Joe was lying at that time.
	But there's a real dilemma here.
	Either Ron was speaking to Joe...
	On a daily basis, and Joe was making literally mentions, oh, Ron's calling Robert.
	I've got to get off the phone.
	Ron's calling right now.
	That's Ron.
	That's Ron.
	Every day for about seven months.
	Or Joe is completely delusional and made up like somebody was on his phone when nobody was calling.
	And I guess phone records will eventually verify the amount of phone calls that were coming in, both to Joe and also this character, Kevin Oliver, who showed up at Joe's house, who was supposed to be ostensibly for one reason, to convince Daniel Marriott, the congressman who was investing in this company, to convince Daniel Marriott, the congressman who was investing in this company, that Ron Pindolfi really was involved, that Kevin really And that's the only reason Kevin ever came to Salt Lake City.
	Why he ended up being there for almost two years, one only wonders, I can't even imagine what in the world would motivate somebody to stay at Joe Furmidge's house for two years almost, you know, Truly, I did by accident fly him in on my own nickel because I wasn't getting paid anything.
	But I figured, here's this guy working with our company.
	Someone's got to get this guy there by plane, not by bus, because there was actually a snowstorm that stopped Kevin from getting across country.
	So when he was blocked in by a snowstorm, I literally put him on a plane like any good natured person would do.
	Put him on a plane and get him there.
	But I had no idea the guy would stay there almost two years.
	My understanding is he just left there a couple of weeks ago.
	I have no idea why the guy was there two years.
	And it looks to me like Kevin is sort of a ploy being utilized by Ron to be sort of the new hierarchy of the company.
	I don't even understand it.
	It's so crazy.
	Yeah.
	That's where we are.
	Now, the bottom line was they didn't pay me.
	I have a contracted agreement for not only one year, two years of employment, and the numbers are getting pretty high up there now into six figures, way into six figures.
	The weirdest thing of all, Carrie, is that they tried to settle, and Ron was directly involved in organizing the settlement with Joe.
	They wanted to settle with me back in April or May, and they made a settlement that was filed into the court.
	When I say they, it was Joe mainly, but Ron clearly was involved with all the paperwork and all the contact with my attorney.
	Ron clearly was involved in the actual settlement, and it turns out the settlement was not paid at all.
	It was like a joke.
	Joe never felt any reason to pay, I guess.
	He felt that he'll cry poor.
	But now he's got a huge problem because in California court, as my lawyer would have explained tonight if he could have been here, I'll do my best to fill in, when you defraud the court system, When you say to the court, I can make a payment by a certain date, and you shuttle your case based on that, the court relies on your honesty.
	If you had no ability, no likely ability, as Ron is claiming now, Ron's quite a guy.
	He's saying now that whatever he negotiated with Joe, helping Joe, was all empty because he had no money anyway.
	It's a fraud on so many levels.
	But again, I want to caution you.
	I really did this earlier today with you, Kerry.
	I don't know if Ron's doing this all on his own as a private matter or whether or not he's working for the agency.
	I really don't know.
	Thank you for that.
	Now, I want to backtrack you because there's a lot of people that are going to be confused.
	That's quite a saga.
	First of all, I think people need to understand who the players are.
	So we've got Ron Pandolfi, who used to be head of what's called the Weird Desk over at CIA for many, many years.
	And before that, Kit Green was head of the Weird Desk.
	And he's also a player, although I'm not sure how involved he is in your scenario.
	And then we've also got Hal Pudoff, who has verified the technology was working at least at some point.
	In the early stages.
	And this is what they call an anti-gravity device.
	And we've got Paul Price on here to talk more about the technology later.
	And then what you're talking about is Kevin Alber, who was brought on board by Ron Pandolfi as supposedly to be the president, let's see, I was told CEO, That's ridiculous.
	Let's make it really clear.
	Okay, Kerry, I don't want you to ever give your listeners or viewers any kind of information that is patently ridiculous.
	Let's be really clear what's going on here.
	Kevin, I don't know Kevin very well at all.
	I do know that he was introduced to me as a very close confidant of Ron's, at that time living at Ron's house, and even taking care of, you know, helping Ron around the house, and his wife.
	That's fine, and I always thought that was a compliment to this guy, Kevin.
	I mean, if you put the custody of your child in his stead, you know, and you basically let him help that out, you're trusting someone.
	It's a really nice thing about somebody, right?
	Right.
	So I recognize that Kevin must have been close enough to these people to be representing them at some level.
	Kevin also has gone on GoToMeetings or YouTube events with Ron's wife and conducted court and literally organized conferences about Joe's device.
	There was one particular conference they had where a gentleman named Doug Ald conducted the master of ceremonies in a way.
	And there was Ron's wife leading Joe, leading him in kind of an interview to talk about the anti-gravity device.
	So if they had no belief in it, they didn't believe in it at all, as Ron claims now to some people, it doesn't make any sense at all.
	Ron had no responsibility at all in the company, what was going on with it, other than operating as Ron's eyes and ears and a contact person.
	Okay, now let me sort of interject here.
	And this is information that was given to me by Paul Price, who we can verify with him later.
	But what I want to say here is that I was told that not only was Kevin Albur made CEO of Joe Firmage's company, that he was also brought in to be head of To the Stars Network, To the Stars Academy, At some point, to be the head of that as well.
	And this person, Kevin, it may be ridiculous.
	It's all ridiculous.
	I know what you're talking about.
	Paul was never saying.
	Paul, you said that?
	Well, this is supposedly what went on.
	And there may be paperwork or things on the internet that back this up.
	All I'm saying, whether he's capable or not, is not the question.
	The question is...
	There's no company to talk about.
	What company are you referring to?
	You're talking about Joe Firmage.
	Joe Firmage's company.
	A couple of people around him.
	Many one, or InterNASA, or...
	Or me.
	We fed a lot of nonsense.
	I'm trying to help you.
	These are Joe's companies.
	Are you familiar with Joe's company name?
	Let's start there.
	If you want the history, I'll give it to you in a nutshell.
	It was a company called Motion Science.
	That company was headed by Joe Firmage and a guy that now owns Skinwalker Ranch.
	How he ended up being Joe's partner in 2010...
	They developed the device that you're now seeing as his present device, the early stages.
	That was put together by Joe and this individual from Salt Lake City, this other individual.
	Now, this other individual has asked me to never mention his name, so I'll continue that for tonight.
	Anyway, this individual was Joe's partner in this company called Motion Sciences.
	This company had Hal Putoff and Kit Green, formerly of the CIA, Ron's predecessor, not only advising Joe, analyzing the actual technology, and then made a video standing in front of the plane, which looks like to be owned by the Salt and then made a video standing in front of the plane, which looks like to be owned And this video is out there on the internet.
	It's gone up, it's gone down.
	Whether or not it's still up there, I don't know, but we'll surely depose it and subpoena it in court, whatever the right terminology is.
	I'm not a lawyer.
	But it will be requisitioned to come into the court, and it's a document that everyone needs to see.
	It's Hal put off.
	Kit Green, being interviewed in front of this plane, literally saying how interesting Joe's technology is.
	Kit Green was calling it fragile technology.
	Fragile in two senses.
	One, it's unproven.
	You know what I mean?
	Fragile meaning we don't know if it's real.
	And then fragile in the sense that he thought that, I'm paraphrasing Kit on that video, that basically you don't want to go public with something too early.
	So it's fragile.
	You don't want to kind of discuss it in the public.
	So the public relations of it is also fragile.
	And I thought that was a fairly good video.
	I think it was a big part of Joe's promotional campaign to get me to join the company.
	Had I not seen that video of Hal Puthoff and Kit Green standing in front of this plane giving this interview about singing the praises of Joe's technology, I probably wouldn't have been involved at all.
	But that was a very, very important video that induced me, as the legal term would be, induced me to join the company and try to bring their media to a high level.
	So all I can tell you right now is that any claim that they brought in this guy, Alba, to run the company, that would have been like a last minute attempt to get all the pressure off Joe and stick some kind of like, you know, no offense to anybody here, that would have been like a last minute attempt to get all the pressure off Joe and stick some kind of like, you It's almost ridiculous.
	It's so ridiculous I can't even tell you.
	And by the way, if people are claiming that Kevin Alba is on the board of directors and the president, well maybe my lawyer Eric Sapir might feel justified in naming Kevin in the lawsuit.
	It's interesting.
	Muted.
	So sorry about this.
	Uh, So, okay, so that was my point.
	What I was saying is Kevin Albers' name has come up as being the person that Ron assigned to take over the so-called...
	You know, where Joe Firmage becomes the founder, and this is commonly done in the software world in Silicon Valley, and the founder sort of steps to the side, and basically the CEO is someone who administers the company from then on, someone with a business background.
	My understanding is...
	And I may be wrong, but I did see some information on the web about this individual, Kevin Alba.
	His background is making pornographic movies.
	I wanted to say for the record here, to be fair to Ron, I've had a lot of talks with Ron over the last few months.
	Ron believes Joe has made up his involvement completely.
	Ron is claiming that he never backed Joe's company.
	By no means did Kevin represent him in any way.
	He doesn't have some very nice things to say about Kevin.
	So I don't know exactly what's going on with Ron, but I can tell you what I do know.
	Unless Joe is the best actor ever, beyond winning an Academy Award.
	And Kevin is also an amazing actor.
	I don't know about what you mentioned.
	We'll leave that one alone.
	But unless they're actors of the highest level, they were talking to Ron on a daily basis.
	Ron was checking in on Joe's activities.
	He did have a reason to give Joe a startup.
	And I'm sure Paul will talk about that tonight.
	Paul knows for sure, and he'll testify in court, it appears that Ron set this whole thing up back in 2016 or so.
	Maybe as a wedge against what Puthoff was planning with Tom DeLonge.
	And there appears to be this nexus between To the Stars Academy and INTERNASA, which stands for the Academy of Arts and Sciences.
	It's the same kind of idea going on here.
	So back to what Joe claimed from the beginning.
	Joe claimed that Hal Puthoff concocted this To the Stars Academy operation, got a hold of these videos somehow with Lou Elizondo.
	By the way, for the record, the Secretary of Defense's office has confirmed to me that Lou Elizondo had absolutely no involvement, and I mean zero involvement, in AATIP. And the Navy has confirmed to me in a long interview that those videos were stolen,
	taken, Without any kind of, you know, okay from the DOD. Why they're not prosecuting Lou Elizondo, why they're not looking into the Stars Academy as some kind of a tax scheme, which a congressman from Ohio, Congressman Beatty believes is a tax scheme, I don't know.
	Those are things that we'll get into much later.
	But I can tell you this right now.
	If this goes to trial, It's going to be one of the most interesting trials in the world of UFOs, aerospace, government tomfoolery.
	It's going to be very interesting.
	Kevin Alba, you say he stayed at Ron's house, and you're saying he's not involved.
	Is that right?
	I want to understand that you think that Alba is not involved.
	No, Ron is claiming to me that all these clearly circumstantial evidences, Kevin staying at Ron's house, Kevin arriving from via Chris Gletso's house, because apparently Ron and his wife...
	I felt Kevin should look into Chris Bledsoe because guys like John Alexander were already looking into him.
	Why these people from the government believe people like Chris Bledsoe is a contactee meeting with a woman and a being called a lady with no evidence at all?
	You know, guys like Grant Cameron are convinced because of what he witnessed there with a dog bleeding and whatever.
	This is what kills UFO research, Kerry.
	These are the kind of things that make regular media people, even like me, raise our eyebrows and go, what is going on here?
	If this isn't a misinformation campaign, a disinformation campaign, I guess I've never seen one then.
	This is obviously some kind of a...
	Mixed bag of confusion that is being propagated on the public by people who either were formerly in the government or presently working with the government.
	So that's why it's such an interesting case.
	I just think they didn't realize that by Joe hiring me, this is what I do for a living.
	I look into these things.
	All my shows have touched on these things.
	So why they would have thought I wouldn't look at it like an investigative journalist is No matter what my activities were, at the core, that's what I am.
	So I think what happened was they just kind of like, sometimes people just get carried away with themselves, you know, and they just, they don't realize they just went too far.
	And this is a case where they went too far.
	Okay, so somehow Chris Bledsoe factors in here, and I do know about the Bledsoe story, and I can say that it does have some possible validity.
	There were other people involved.
	It wasn't just Chris Bledsoe.
	Tell me the validity of Chris Bledsoe's case.
	I'd love to hear it.
	Well, I don't want to sidetrack this discussion, but I will say there are other people, witnesses, in other words.
	There was a whole group of people that were out on some kind of camping trip at night.
	He was there with his son.
	It's quite an involved case.
	Why they would wrap that into their dealings with you and what that has to do with anything, I don't know.
	I can tell you very clearly.
	I don't want you to be confused, Gary.
	The reason why they wanted to look into Chris Bledsoe, as far as I can tell, is that there is this idea that interdimensional portals and interdimensional activity is occurring and that Ron's wife, for some reason, has been associated with this And Ron has helped bring this to bear.
	If it was a bit of a lark, if it was all a joke, okay, he can go public now and say, look, we in the government or even us out of the government, sometimes we tell stories that may not be actually real.
	There's a reason why we do that.
	And I'm sure there are black psyops and all kinds of things that make sense to protect us as a nation and all of that.
	But to make like this is all about national security and all this other nonsense, it's such bunk that you have to call it when you see it.
	You know, you got to be honest with people.
	Okay, well, if it has to do with portals, then what you're really referring to is Joe Firmage's company was investigating portal technology.
	Who says?
	Who says that?
	Well, this is also what Paul will get into.
	Not Joe!
	Okay, Joe denies that he was investigating portal technology.
	He was told.
	He was informed of it.
	It's like, by the way, you're looking into portals, you know that?
	And mostly that was coming from Ron's camp.
	It was not coming from Joe.
	Okay, my understanding is that, as you sort of pointed out, is that Ron Pendolfi and Joe Firmage were basically in business together.
	No!
	That's not true at all.
	Ron has always been a consultant to Joe, as I can see it.
	Someone giving him scientific advice, giving him moral support.
	He's going to deny that, but I believe that's the truth.
	And that's what my lawyer believes as well.
	And we know that because when the settlement was being put together back in April and May, Ron was directly involved.
	Okay, well that could be called a business relationship.
	I'm not going to go that far.
	I'm not saying that Ron was part of the company.
	Wait a minute.
	Ron Pandolfi was supposedly trying to help Joe Furmage raise money.
	That doesn't make him part of the company.
	It's still a business relationship.
	I mean, for God's sake, anyone that helps you raise money, I mean, you've got a business relationship.
	That's not a huge deal.
	I'll leave that to you and a jury.
	You know, he's not an artist, I mean, for God's sake.
	He's a CIA agent doing business.
	But at any rate...
	I'm just trying to...
	I'm trying to be upfront with you.
	I'm not speaking as a lawyer.
	I get it.
	He might agree with you.
	He might actually be listening to this tomorrow and go, no, Bob, actually, I do think Ron worked for the company.
	I'm not willing to go there because I'm not a lawyer.
	Look, I don't know what he signed.
	I simply know that if somebody raises money for you and is involved the way Ron was said to be with firmage, That there is a business relationship there.
	What the parameters of the relationship are, we don't care.
	Whatever, the point is that he's involved.
	So what I want to know is...
	Involved, yes.
	Okay, let's find out.
	This lawsuit is not written, from what I understand, it's being reformulated at this time so that we...
	No, these are words that don't make any sense, so let me clarify what you're talking about.
	There was a complaint filed in Orange County in court in LA, California, I mean, that was going to trial.
	Joe was given some idea, I don't know whether it came from Ron, whether he made it up on his own, that he was going to be the head of the National Space Council under Vice President Pence.
	And he needed this case to be resolved quickly because they were never going to get the kind of respect and he would surely not get the position at the National Space Council, allegedly, if he had a lawsuit still pending.
	So he rushed together a settlement.
	I bent over backwards.
	I ate like $100,000 to make it work so that he would be able to settle this thing.
	We all go on our merry way.
	There were people in Joe's group who felt I worked really hard.
	Ron knew how hard I worked on both coasts, West Coast and East Coast, news people, entertainment people, trying to get Joe respected in some way, and also dealing with his investors.
	When finally Ron realized how hard I had worked, and he was convinced of it, he more or less okayed Joe to go ahead and settle.
	When Joe did not make payments, Ron came back with, Bob, come on, you know he had no money.
	What are you talking about?
	It's ludicrous, okay?
	I don't care where he gets the money.
	If he makes a settlement with the court system in California to settle, and he had no way to make that settlement, then that's fraught.
	So now the complaint was killed, the initial complaint in court, it's called the document, called the complaint.
	That complaint was kiboshed by the judge.
	The judge determined that this was a fraudulent kind of settlement.
	And now we've refiled the complaint with new people who are the board of directors.
	And in California and any other court, I believe in the country, you can add anywhere from one to 100 people as the case matriculates and you realize certain people are culpable, then you can add them.
	So Kevin Albert can be added.
	Daniel Marriott will be added back in most likely.
	Whether Ron is named, that's a tough question.
	That's Eric's call, my lawyer.
	That's where he fits in.
	Okay, but isn't Ron the one who made the deal with you?
	No!
	My contract with Joe.
	My contract is with Joe.
	So you were not dialoguing with Ron.
	You were dialoguing only with Joe.
	Is that correct?
	I was forbidden to call Ron.
	If I was to call Ron up back in November or December of 2017 before signing the contract...
	Joe would have considered that to be a backstabbing thing because Joe asked me, do you know Ron Pandolfi?
	I said, no, but I know someone who knows him very well.
	If I need to speak to Ron, I could be on the phone with him probably in an hour.
	Joe says, please do not do that.
	I said, well, I won't.
	I have no reason to talk to Ron.
	But then, upon beginning work with Joe in January of 2018, Ron seemingly was on the phone every day with Joe.
	So I was able to get information from Kevin what Ron was thinking and doing.
	So I had no reason to call Ron.
	It was only after like seven, eight months, nine months, that finally I said to Joe, you haven't paid me.
	You owe me a lot of money.
	My lawyer's ready to sue you.
	Is it time to talk to Ron yet?
	I had to write an email to Ron pretty much saying, I request to communicate with you.
	It was so ridiculous.
	By the time I got to know Ron...
	He's a pretty normal guy.
	I can talk to him about anything.
	So I have no idea why Joe is trying to keep the mystique going that I cannot talk to Ron Badoffi.
	It was just like so ridiculous.
	Okay, so there was a contract.
	It was formulated with you through Joe Firmage's company.
	Which company?
	Was it called ManyOne?
	No!
	Why do you keep calling it Many One?
	It's called InterNASA.
	Because that's one of the names and we can get to Paul to get some clarification.
	I can make it real clear to you.
	Many One is a separate entity.
	That Joe was hoping, in some way, to bring into one big tent with InterNASA, I guess the earlier version of Motion Sciences, which there is some legal debate about what Motion Sciences really is to this moment, and who has the IP control of whatever was developed with Motion Sciences.
	That's where the present owner of Skinwalker Ranch fits in, how he was able to use his contacts, because this individual...
	as I understand it, had no knowledge of anything before 2010, before he pacted with Joe to start the development on this device.
	He didn't know anything about how put off or the government or special operations.
	He got to know all those people and those ideas from Joe.
	And And eventually he pacted with Hal Puthoff it looks like, from what I'm learning lately, that Hal Puthoff was helpful in getting the purchase from Bob Bigelow of Skinwalker Ranch.
	So how does Joe's former partner become the owner of Skinwalker Ranch?
	Crazy.
	For sure.
	Well, all these guys are, in my world, the terminology might be in bed together.
	So, at any rate, do you have more that you want to talk to us about?
	Because I want to keep in the parameters of what you wanted, how long you want to stay on the show.
	I decided to give an extra half hour to that.
	I told Paul I would stay on as long as I could.
	So what I think we should do is turn it over to Paul, and I'll stay with you another 20 minutes.
	But remember this, though.
	Paul has witnessed, way before he ever got to know me at all, on the phone, he witnessed things that go back to 2016 and well beyond.
	But most importantly, Paul knows for certain that Ron helped create This new version of Motion Sciences, which became this InterNASA, which essentially is taking the same gyroscopic research and trying to build a better machine.
	But Motion Sciences established that back in 2010, and now Put-Off and Kit Green were very helpful in promoting that prior company.
	That's a company that we're going to be looking at very heavily in our court case, as we will be looking at To The Stars Academy.
	What is the link between Hal Puthoff, Joe Furmidge, Tom DeLonge, this individual at Buskin Walker Ranch?
	We want to bring them all to the court and get the jury to look at this.
	We really do.
	So let's do that.
	Let's bring Paul on the screen here.
	And Paul, are you there?
	I'm here.
	Okay.
	Can you hear me?
	Yes, we can hear you.
	So now we're going to mute Bob.
	Paul, are you there?
	Yeah, I'm here.
	Yeah.
	Okay, great.
	I'm here.
	Can you hear me?
	Yes, I can hear you.
	Can you hear me?
	Hello?
	You can hear me.
	Great.
	Okay, your sound is not great.
	So go ahead.
	Paul, can you sort of put forward your understanding that may be slightly different, at least according to the conversations we've had?
	I assume you were able to hear Bob's testimony there.
	Yeah, I heard everything and Bob only has a cursory knowledge as to what happened in 2015 or actually 2014 until today.
	And he came in, I guess, at the latter end of all this.
	I was the individual who...
	Was to go between everybody.
	Joe Furmich to Ron Pandolfi.
	Ron Pandolfi to Kevin Albert.
	Kevin Albert to Ron Pandolfi.
	And Joe Furmich.
	And I was the guy that at the time was the nexus point of all those conversations.
	And so I have a detailed knowledge because I'm the one that they actually...
	I came to try to connect calls and messages with the other parties.
	And including, in some instances, Dan Smith.
	And what I saw happening, and I even sent documentation to you at one time, It was said that Kevin Alba, and this came directly from Ron, that he was going to be the president and CEO of, and it's not motion science, Bob, correction, it's motion physics, Mini-1, and InterNASA.
	And in motion physics...
	Reportedly, Brandon Fugel had actually helped to start a finance that particular arm by giving not only him, but a man by the name of Frank Cutler, giving a Thank you very much.
	Since back when Joe started his very first company back in 1998 or so, when he became the tech guru that he became known for later on.
	And these people were financing along with other people that were giving money, and Joe even pointed up money himself to help put off and others.
	When it came to the fields of anti-gravity, alternative propulsion, and alternative energy, that's the best way of putting it.
	And what happened was they sponsored how people at Sarah Incorporated, a defense contractor in Canoga Park, California, was given a contract.
	John Deering was a part of this, where Joe Fermich had paid them to do research into Nazi technology, and they were able to get it done Successfully at that point, I've talked to John one-on-one about it.
	And Joe was funding all these particular projects, not only with his own money, but when he ran out of his own money, due to what Ron has put off,
	taking $80 million of what It used to be Joe Firmage's money, and I was coming with it and putting it into foreign bank accounts so that he could tell Joe that something's being done but wasn't.
	And that he was pulling the wool over Joe's eyes and stealing money from him.
	That's what Ron had stated to me, not once, not twice, but on several different occasions.
	Point blank.
	Just to slow you down a little bit, what are you saying?
	Who is stealing money from Joe?
	I'll put on...
	Hal Putoff and other members, Hal Putoff kicked green and there was a third person that Ron had indicated was part of the scam.
	Now here's the issue.
	Kid Green and the two, and also I think possibly John Alexander.
	And I'm not trying to, I know John, he's a friend of mine.
	I don't want to say anything that is despairing towards John or John Alexander at all.
	Whether you believe he's Dr.
	Death or not, everybody has the right to have their day in court.
	And to confront their accuser.
	And this, in my opinion, is the most important reason for Bob Kivy's court date and for the hearing.
	Is that Ron has been making all sorts of accusations against everybody.
	He's insulted me.
	He's defamed my character to you as well as to others.
	He's done that about Bob.
	He's done that about Kevin.
	However, back to the point which Bob Kvyat does not know, Kevin, by all means, and forgive me for saying this, but it is the God's honest truth, Kevin Alba is a buffoon.
	He's an idiot.
	And if he wants to confront me about it right now, and if he's listening to the broadcast right now, I'll call it to him.
	I've told him this to his face.
	He's a buffoon and an idiot.
	And he's what I would call a useful idiot because of the fact that they want to find a way to cover...
	Any of their wrongdoings, bottom line, regarding illegal circumvention of any monies that may have originally was supposed to go to Joe Firmage to help him support himself and his pro projects.
	And somehow that money was sent elsewhere.
	And there is a particular thing that I would question as to the veracity of the Kashmir World Foundation, as well as other...
	Paul, bear with me one second.
	I'm listening to everything you're saying, but I know that as a TV producer and a writer and making shows, people need to understand what Paul's talking about.
	So let me just kind of help Paul for 15 seconds here or whatever, maybe a minute, and maybe make some sense of what Paul's saying for those who don't know, because Paul's very, very close to this story, and sometimes he probably assumes everybody seems to know what's going on.
	To simplify what Paul is saying, and he'll correct me if I'm wrong, first of all, number one, I have to correct Paul.
	Motion Sciences was the company...
	That was put together by Joe Firmage and his real estate Salt Lake City buddy that Paul mentioned.
	I did not.
	As a fairness to this one guy, I keep telling you, I've been protecting this guy, trying to protect him, trying to tell him that he's probably in over his head, doesn't know what's going on exactly.
	He came back and told me that Skinwalker Ranch is a big black operation, black ops operation, black budget operation, and we'll never know whatever the details are.
	But whatever.
	The point is that Motion Sciences in 2010, backed to some degree by Hal Puthoff and Kit Green, was the forerunner of InterNASA in every way, shape, and form.
	In fact, the only thing different about the two companies are some of the players and the way the machine has been augmented.
	That's about the only difference.
	So I want Paul to know that the other individual he mentioned Joe is extremely nervous that his name will be mentioned in relation to Joe because it looks like he was involved in a scam earlier.
	And what's even more interesting is this individual, Joe's former partner that Paul mentioned tonight, that guy had a paper written back in 2010 roughly claiming that Joe did not have any kind of technology worth anything.
	So it's like at the end of the line when it looked like everything was going asunder, They wrote a paper saying, you know what, after all, Joe's machine will not work.
	But it's all such nonsense because they were already promoting it for about two years.
	Why would they all of a sudden claim there was nothing to it?
	It's just such a squirrely kind of connection.
	So what Paul's really trying to say is this is a long-running connection between Hal Puthoff, Kit Green, and Joe Firmage, many other people, and Paul, of all people, knows it from the beginning because he was involved.
	Well, let me just make a statement here.
	Wait, the person we're talking about is written up in the article that's on my page where this video is taking place on my site, projectamalot.tv.
	You can read it to get some of the details that are not completely all correct, but have a lot of sort of the details of the case.
	And this guy is a Brandon or Brandon Fugle.
	Is that the correct name?
	Paul, you know his name.
	Yeah, that's Brandon Fugle.
	And he bought Skinwalker Ranch, correct?
	Correct.
	And he's a Utah real estate entrepreneur.
	Okay.
	And he's the one that was...
	I would like it if one of you can name the millions that went into Joe Firmage's company ostensibly, named in this article, that millions, and I believe possibly Marriott was one of the contributors, but there are others.
	And if they are being sort of on this side of the defendants, in other words, with I'll help you, Gary.
	It's not that complicated.
	Paul was just trying to give a backstory of how far back this goes, and this idea of trying to focus on an anti-gravity machine, the players that were involved, and I think we're getting probably many more names here that people can't really get their head around, but it's okay.
	What Paul's really saying is, and I agree with, is that there was an earlier version of this about nine years ago that fell apart.
	The number that I'm hearing is somewhere between six and seven million dollars was generated from investors.
	I'm not going to get into where those investments came from.
	It's not for me to say, but I heard directly from the people involved.
	We'll leave it at that.
	The principles involved in Motion Sciences, the former company that led to enter NASA, that that was somewhere between six and seven million dollars.
	Now, that seven million dollars was gone.
	Forget it.
	Nowhere to be seen.
	Joe went off years later and got motivated somehow, according to Paul, which I do value his opinion.
	Ron decided to restart the Joe's initiative.
	And I think, Paul, if you could help us here, tell us the initiative that Ron started with Joe back in 2016, as you remember it, because that's the most germane issue to my lawsuit.
	Before he does that, Kerry, just to answer your question, in my involvement with Joe Firmage and all the other players as an employee of InterNASA in the media communications area, I can tell you that there's one individual who I
	don't think it's my place to do this.
	He says, oh, this guy is lucky to have spent over a million dollars just to meet Ron Pandolfi or talk to Ron Pandolfi.
	It's so ridiculous, but there is indeed this individual that Dan Smith refers to, that I've spoken to, and he confirmed he put in close to 1.2 million or more, and he doesn't yet want to take anyone to court because he believes there's still some merit to this technology.
	Dan Marriott put in probably in the, I would say, hundreds of thousands of dollars, not millions, but he promised to put in millions, and he asked Joe to not take any other investments in until he could figure out if he wanted to back the whole company, back it financially in every way.
	But he kept that carrot hanging for like 12 months while bills were not paid.
	Guys like me were issuing lawsuits.
	So Dan Marriott is quite creative in how he's trying to operate here.
	But unfortunately, I think his lawyers would tell him he's doing some things that just aren't right.
	So the bottom line is millions have been invested in Joe over the years.
	Where that money is, Paul may have some ideas.
	I could speculate, but Ron's even chimed in where some of that money is, but it's not for me to say right now.
	Okay, so Paul, can you please reply to what has been said here then about the actual monies that were invested and the fact that these, at least as far as we can tell, these players are not not named in the lawsuit?
	Well, there were several millions of dollars that were funneled into Joe's company.
	This is where, and I'm going to correct Bob on this, this is why Ron put Kevin Albert in charge of Of all of the day-to-day operations of Joe Furman's companies.
	One of the excuses Ron made was that Joe has a quote-unquote from Ron, not me.
	The statement he made is that Joe has an alcoholic problem and he's got a daily addiction to...
	That came from Ron, not me.
	And reportedly, the reason why...
	Kevin Auber was given control over the day-to-day operations of Joe's companies is because Joe couldn't do it himself.
	Not at all.
	The man was so drugged up and drunk that he really couldn't Okay, but before we continue, and we do have disclaimers.
	No, listen to me, Paul.
	Before we continue with this, you're saying Kevin Alber was brought in to run Firmage's companies by Ron, who's playing quite an advanced role in this company that he supposedly isn't signed on as a member of the board who's playing quite an advanced role in this company that he supposedly isn't signed on But what I want to know is, have you seen paperwork, signed paperwork,
	Is that going to be an exhibit in court showing that Albur is and was, from what I understand still is, although I don't know that for sure, the CEO of one of those companies that Firmage supposedly owns?
	Well, there is an email thread that I was a part of.
	Where even Ron acknowledged that they were going to do a party on Kevin's promotion.
	I happen to have been the witness to those phone calls where even Ron said that Kevin was sent there by Ron To take over the day-to-day operations of Joe's companies.
	Not only one, but all three.
	Okay, but you have not seen a signed document.
	You have not seen a signed document.
	Is that correct?
	Other than the email threads and the connections that I've had with Ron, the email is basically out of the doubt that yes...
	Ron put Kevin in charge of Joe's company with Joe's blessings.
	And this is the argument that Ron always makes.
	What about the idea that he, Albert, was also put in charge of To the Stars Academy?
	Well, I had talked to Joe...
	Affirmage about that, as well as a couple of other people, and I have found, first of all, through a second-hand source, that that person had talked to Ron directly, and Ron said that he had been involved in the founding of To The Stars Academy.
	However, three key individuals kicked...
	Reportedly, quote-unquote, kicked him off the board of directors of that company, and that happened to be Hal Putoff, Kit Green, and I do believe...
	There was a third one.
	I can't remember the name of the man.
	But reportedly, they told Ron that they didn't trust him there, and therefore, he was kicked off of the...
	Okay, and Ron Pandolfi was also involved in, behind the scenes at least, running to the Stars Academy as well as Joe Firmage's company.
	That's what we've got here, right?
	Correct.
	Correct.
	He was playing two wins against the middle, bottom line.
	And to me, in my opinion, and I've had enough of a history with these people right now, Kerry, that I believe that this has all been a ploy.
	Nobody would ever...
	Unfortunately, in my opinion, we'll ever get the proper funding.
	There will never be disclosed.
	Not as the UFO community would like.
	Okay.
	And there will not be any release or advancement in technology because the government doesn't want us.
	All right.
	That's fine.
	Now, here's the one thing that I can say.
	I can say...
	I could state right now, and I don't know if Bob's still with us or not.
	I think he might be.
	No, I am.
	I am.
	I'm listening carefully.
	But here's the issue.
	I mean, whether or not First of all, you brought up arguments even in your article, Kerry.
	And I want to touch on this right now.
	We say, well, that's what the CIA does.
	You can't expect them to do anything less.
	However, there are laws in our country.
	Several laws that I know because of my interaction with Pendolfi and several individuals within that search that they have willfully violated Laws that would put you and I and Bob Kvyat to prison for many years.
	Multiple feelings.
	Now Bob is just saying I want to get my money back.
	And I understand that.
	And I sympathize with him.
	And I have empathy towards him.
	But I've been dealing with these shenanigans with all of these people.
	Since 1998.
	That's been 21 years ago.
	Paul, let me help you here.
	Paul's personal story, Kerry, is a very, very, in some ways, heart-wrenching if you really get into it.
	But the main thing is this.
	He's making the connection that To The Stars Academy might be linked to Joe's operation.
	There is no doubt there appears to be some tangential connections between them, mainly between Hal Puthoff.
	That's all you need to know is Hal Puthoff is the nexus between what Joe was trying to create in 2010 with his former partner, and Kit Green was assisting in this, and what they're doing now, this To The Stars Academy kind of nightmare,
	which, by the way, if anyone's interested in UFO research, which, by the way, if anyone's interested in UFO research, like I am for so many years doing TV shows, this To The Stars Academy bonding with some alleged government connections that Lou Elizondo likely arranged, at the same time that Lou Elizondo is being called more or less,
	if not a criminal, pretty close to that by the Navy and the Secretary of Defense, I don't know why they're not going after that organization and really looking into it, but it does have connections to my case.
	Right, Paul's correct.
	It's not that I'm going after my money.
	I'm going after my services.
	In the state of California...
	Employment law is very serious.
	When people take advantage of employees, the California court is very, very angry, very, very protecting of employees, even to the point of bending over backwards to make sure that employees are not taken advantage of.
	I guess what happened was they kind of screwed the wrong guy and I work in California.
	I was hired to work from California in the Utah-based company, but the case is filed here in California.
	And I think the Utah laws are pretty similar.
	But I think what Ron is concerned with, Ron is running some kind of an operation.
	Paul has been involved since God knows how many years.
	Why he stays connected to people like Paul, previous to Paul, a guy named Gordon Novell, Why he does that, I don't know.
	And that's something that we should be looking into, I think, as a country.
	Okay, that's true.
	Okay, Paul, did you want to say something?
	Go ahead.
	Yeah, I wanted to clarify something here.
	I've been witness to potential criminal malfeasance within that group.
	For many years.
	Now it all started, and I've talked to Bob about it, with an innocent request of Ron to get funding for my research.
	And I've even told people, I don't really care about getting money.
	If I could get money to buy materials, fine.
	But if I could get materials, even scrap materials that I could repurpose, I would use that too.
	And it would cost nobody, it would cost nothing to get those materials.
	Oh, okay.
	But when I went to Ron, can I finish here?
	When I went to Ron, I asked him for help.
	He sent me directly to Gordon.
	And I'm telling you this from the bottom of my heart.
	You and I both know that Ron screwed Gordon over big time.
	Ron made promises to cover Cat.
	And the same process is happening over again.
	Now, let me be honest with you.
	Joe, I don't put him mainly because of the fact that he has hit hard times.
	And I believe he's being taken advantage of.
	The purpose for Kevin Albert being there, and I don't have direct knowledge of this, but I do know about certain facets of the case that not even Bob knows, because that was the in-between guy, the gopher, to use the proper term.
	I was the guy that everybody went to to contact everybody else.
	So I was in that nexus.
	Paul, can you tell Kerry some of that, Paul?
	Tell Kerry.
	Well, in 2015, not 2016, correction, Bob, in 2015, Joe Firmage reached out to me on LinkedIn.
	And I kind of thought, because Ron told me in previous conversations that he would try to contact Joe Firmage and see if he could make a connection between he and I. Well, Joe connects with me on LinkedIn.
	However, I didn't have any money to pay for any research at the time.
	I was poor.
	I didn't have a dime that I could use to pay anyone to do the work for me.
	And so that's why I was asking Ron for help.
	And however, Joe contacts me and says, oh, we can help you, but you need $25,000 in order to get us partially funded services.
	So that way we can help you with your prototype.
	And then on top of that, he wanted a percentage of the prototype after somebody would pay him, you know, the IP on it.
	And to me, you know, and I told him, I said, Ron didn't tell me that.
	Ron told me you could fund me.
	And all throughout that time, Ron knew that Joe Permage had lost all of his money, was poor and indigent.
	And barely able to make buy.
	But he didn't tell Joe that.
	He told Joe that I had money I could give to him.
	But he told me that Joe could give me...
	There is...
	And here's the other thing.
	He's told Bob Kibriot, and he's told everybody else that not only I, Bob, Kevin Albert, Joe Firmich, Dan Smith, and the list goes on, are either crazy, inept, buffoons, thieves, and techno-scammers.
	And here's the argument I'm making.
	What happened to all that money since Albert took over the day-to-day operations of Joe's camera?
	Whatever happened to that money?
	Joe didn't see it, and I know that for a fact.
	You know what I think happened?
	Yeah, go ahead.
	I think what happened is somebody absconded with the money and maybe put it into their non-profit wildlife foundation using drones.
	I don't have direct proof of that, but with my own knowledge as to what happened...
	More than likely, Joe didn't use all of that money.
	If he would have gotten that money, he would have at least made sure that his mother and his family's home would have bought and he would have paid off Frank Cutler, the money that he owed him.
	So that way, Frank Cutler would not have foreclosed on the property because Joe, and here's a bit of information, Paul, let me help Kerry here.
	I know Paul's so close to this, but that's why I've stayed online tonight beyond my ability to, really.
	I've got a lot going on here, but here's the bottom line.
	Paul went through a period where Ron apparently was trying to get some kind of activity going between Paul, who's a theoretician of certain types of physics, Joe Firmage, who wants to create an anti-gravity device.
	Ron was more like the conductor in a symphony, trying to get everybody to be connected.
	Once it was connected, apparently Grant Cameron was planted with stories through Dan Smith that Ron was involved in portal technology, maybe his wife was as well.
	Maybe Joe Fermage was creating an anti-gravity device, but really was a...
	Actually, back in 2017, Grant Cameron was actually giving lectures at UFO conferences that Joe was creating a portal activation device.
	So there was no truth to that at the time.
	But that was sort of a meme that was thrown out there to confuse a lot of people.
	And even when I brought it up to Joe early on in my work with him, he was like, that's nuts.
	That's not true.
	So it all boils down to what kind of game is being played?
	What kind of game is being played?
	I appreciate that, but it's important to realize that this stuff is being investigated, and if they lie to you, it's simply because you're not in a need to know from their point of view.
	So when Furman denied that, behind the scenes, he was actually acknowledging that.
	And this, I have been...
	I have not only this source, which is Paul, and I've known Paul for many years now, by the way, and we've been having very long conversations about these subjects.
	So most of the players I do know that he's mentioning.
	And I will say that they have been very hot on the heels of portal technology.
	That's one of the key things.
	Sort of elements has to do with going interdimensional, letting in ETs and so on.
	Sorry?
	What are you talking about?
	Portal technology.
	It has to do with creating portals.
	Yeah, there's a quark glue-on device that's part of the linear accelerators.
	This is information that is known by a writer called J.B. Michaels, who investigated this many years ago.
	Brookhaven Labs has been heavily involved in it.
	We know that the secret government, secret space program, is heavily involved in investigating, creating portals, being able to travel interdimensionally, both as an individual with equipment going back and forth, as well as space travel.
	So this is a major, major aspect of all of this.
	If you say so.
	If you say so.
	It absolutely is.
	I've got so many witnesses and so much information on this.
	You know, it's the whole backbone of Camelot.
	So what I'm saying here is just because he denies that to your face doesn't mean it's actually the truth.
	As a founder and an investigator, basically, Firmage would be protective of his investigations.
	And I do know that Ron Pandolfi, Kit Green, Hal Pudoff, all of these people are very interested in basically portal mechanics, whatever you want to call it.
	And, of course, anti-gravity, which is, you know, the basis for UFO propulsion, etc.
	So, I mean, these things are not separate.
	They're all together.
	They're all part and parcel of what they do investigate.
	Now, the interesting situation we've got here is that we've got Hal Pudoff on the line approving and saying in documentation in Furmage's, related to Furmage's company, And I don't know if he was an employee, per se, when he did it, but whatever.
	He's a well-known physicist, and he isn't always involved in the CIA, and has been for many, many years.
	He's also a pivotal person and key player in To The Stars Academy.
	And they say they are also trying to investigate, from a commercial standpoint, to bring out of black projects this technology, which involves anti-gravity, Portal technology.
	So it's the exact same thing that Firmage is trying to investigate.
	And all of this is a dog and pony show that the CIA is very involved in making sure that the public thinks and invests their money.
	That's what we talk about techno scam.
	So in essence, what we're talking about is a techno scam that to the STARS Academy It's doing something similar to what Joe Firmage's company was doing.
	And Pandolfi was the head on a very high level of both of those operations.
	And what it is about is trying to get the public to get involved as investors.
	In their commercial investigations of something that has already been more or less completely investigated and is in constant use in the secret space program.
	So it's bringing it into the commercial sector.
	We can't wait for you to come to trial.
	I can't wait to have you come to trial and tell us that story, Kerry, because between you and me, to tell your listeners or your viewers that that's factual is not responsible.
	Well, I've only spent the last 15 years investigating this story, and I can tell you, I have countless number of witnesses, and witness testimony, witness testimony to this, so what can I tell you?
	And listen, I'm not the one on trial here, but I do want my audience to understand the backbone of what this is about, what, too, the Stars Academy is about, what Vermage's company is about, what the Skin Rocker Ranch and why this guy, Fugle, got involved in buying it, and why the CIA is all over this stuff from many, many different angles.
	Kit Green is CIA, Pal Pudoff is CIA, Pandolfi is CIA. All of the players are CIA. Okay?
	So this is what we're talking about.
	Carrie, you're making these statements and I appreciate it, but you know what?
	If you tell a courtroom that and a jury that, they'd love to hear all that.
	I'm sure they would, but they're probably not really read in, are they?
	So they're not really going to understand much.
	We'll bring you to trial and you can tell the jury that.
	I can't wait to hear that.
	I appreciate that.
	You're welcome to do it.
	At any rate, maybe you should sit down and watch some of my videos so you know who the hell you're talking about.
	By the way, with all due respect to you and your listeners, a lot of times, Carrie, you say things as if you're asserting a fact.
	I'm telling you what I've got.
	Look, if 10 people tell you there's a train coming, do you believe there's a train coming or do you think they're all lying?
	I don't know their credibility.
	Oh, they're all lying?
	No, we're talking about government witnesses.
	People have worked in black projects for over 40 years.
	Whistleblowers, okay, from black projects.
	Those are my witnesses.
	Their backgrounds are documented.
	Their backgrounds are documented who they are.
	They're just as much a valid witness as Paul Price is, who's on the show with us, and as you are and as I am.
	Okay, these people have documented backgrounds of having worked in these projects and coming out from under that veil and coming forward and telling the truth.
	So that's what's happening.
	Now, let's continue this.
	So, Paul, do you want to continue to talk about what the real technology is that you believe they were trying to investigate and why it is that suddenly Hal Puthoff turned tail and decided that it was not working and that there was no real technology there?
	Do you understand that transition that was made?
	Can you hear me?
	Yes, we can hear you.
	Okay, can you hear me now, Gary?
	Okay, good.
	What's going on right now in the technology front?
	Here's my overriding thoughts on the matter.
	Now, the technology is already out there, but it's not out there in the public domain right now.
	Classified projects are using that technology.
	Whether or not you believe we're going to end the space or not, let me preface that to your listeners.
	If you're putting in over $5 trillion a year in black budget programs, They don't put money into a program if it doesn't bear fruit.
	So what's happening here?
	Tutors Academy may have access to materials and technology that we don't have.
	I'll give them that.
	Joe Furman spent over $80 million of his own money and several million on top of that of other investors' money trying to crack the gravity code.
	Build a device that not only could levitate, but could mechanically interact with the gravitational field and generate electricity.
	That is the holy grail.
	It's not flying from point A to point B. And the military vantage point here, that's going to come into any discussion or conversation.
	That we currently have.
	If you're a military planner and you have a system that can do point-to-point transport instantaneously, if you look from the viewpoint of the Secretary of Defense,
	whatever, that gives you first strike capability and no one on earth unless they have A comparable technology could fight against you on that.
	Which gives you command and control power over any point on this planet.
	Okay, Paul.
	I appreciate it.
	Wait, wait, no.
	That's off the topic here.
	We need to stay on topic.
	Let's talk about the technology that Joe Firmage was supposed to have That this company was based on and that Bob Kvyat was brought along on board to basically sell as more or less a PR guy through various media devices this idea and this technology.
	So what's the technology?
	Let's talk about the technology, the anti-gravity machine or technology that supposedly...
	Again, that Pudov approved and then changed his mind in midstream.
	What technology is being talked about?
	I would like Paul because he's the technologist.
	Well, it's a gyroscope within a gyroscope within a gyroscope.
	And if you have rapidly rotating gyroscopes in the minds of some people, you can cancel out the effect of gravity.
	However, you can make a hypothetical argument about that.
	However, in reality, when you've got a device that only generates vibrational effect, then you can't say for certain that that device is really doing what you claim that it's doing.
	Any good scientist worth their weight in salt will tell you.
	That if you really want to observe a phenomenon, you have to cancel out every variable.
	Vibration being one of them.
	Okay, but you're not explaining why did Pudov change his mind on the technology?
	Why don't you ask me when Hal Puthoff told me?
	Okay, all right, Bob.
	If Hal Puthoff talked to you about why he changed his mind, go ahead.
	I only have five more minutes.
	I do have to go.
	I stayed a long time because I wanted to help Paul articulate how Paul was trying to articulate what his experience is and how it matches against the lawsuit that I filed.
	All I can ever say about this gyroscopic technology is what we know.
	The Russians were trying to develop this stuff.
	According to Ron, that was usurped by Hal Puthoff, delivered to Joe around 2010, 2009, whatever, and Joe was reworking the techniques and the technology that the Russians were developing with this gyroscopic kind of, as Paul sort of explained, gyroscope and a gyroscope, whatever.
	Now, according to Ron, that is all bullshit.
	That is just a waste of time.
	And the supposition is that Hal found a way to kind of like get that money and send it other places, wherever that may be.
	Now, Hal told me himself that even though he was behind the technology in 2010 with Kit, they determined eventually that it was not going to work.
	Now, they literally backed it, helped Joe get financing, and then at the very end, oh, wait a minute, there's no proof this has any veracity or scientific tenability at all.
	And the individual that Paul mentioned, the real estate partner of Joe's, laments endlessly how they wrote a paper proving at the end that Joe's technique would never work and his device would never be viable.
	What kind of nonsense is that when you were the people behind it and then all of a sudden at the very end you go, you know what?
	We were kidding.
	What?
	So this is a problem we're dealing with.
	People that seem to think they can kind of change history with a little snap of their finger and all of a sudden what they did previously has no merit.
	And that's what we're going to call into court now.
	We're going to get all these people, Kerry, to explain themselves, including Hal Puthoff, including Kit Green, including Tom DeLonge.
	What does he know about any of this?
	Why did Bob Bigelow sell his Skinwalker Ranch to Joe's former partner?
	What was that all about?
	Now, according to some people, you can almost guess who, Hal Puthoff was the go-between to get Joe's former partner to buy Skinwalker Ranch.
	Why would that be?
	So, the whole thing is crazy.
	I have to go, but I'll do my best to listen.
	Paul, thank you so much for being kind of like the person who knew how early Ron was trying to bring Joe Furmidge back into prominence when Kit Green and Al put off and other people were trying to bury Joe.
	And for some reason, Ron wanted to bring him back into the forum.
	So anyway, Paul, thank you so much.
	And Kerry, thanks for having me.
	Even though I don't agree with some things that you say about portals, I know you're trying to do your best.
	I don't see any evidence of any portal technology, and if you want to show me that evidence ever, I'd love to see it.
	Well, for one thing, you can find the natural portals in places like Sedona, and you can go and stand in them.
	I'm sorry if you don't feel this.
	I'm a sensitive, I can feel portals.
	Portals are the basis of basically everything that goes on.
	It's the spiral, and that's why Native Americans use the spiral.
	As on their cave paintings, etc.
	But, you know, you can educate yourself about portals, Bob.
	I'm willing to go.
	Hey, listen, I'm willing to go without a camera crew.
	I'm willing to go literally...
	And you know why they want to keep Skinwalker Ranch in the family?
	Why Fugle is now involved as a former partner of Joe Firmage is because it's full of portals.
	And that allows ETs to come in and us to go out.
	Boy, that sounds so declarative.
	I want to get my cameras over there as quickly as possible.
	Unfortunately, all our research shows that nothing happened at Theon Walker Ranch, but if you want to prove that out to me, I'd love to see that.
	I would love it.
	But thank you for having me.
	I appreciate it.
	Paul, good luck with everything.
	Good luck explaining more tonight.
	I appreciate it, Paul, a lot.
	Thank you.
	Thank you for being on the show, Bob.
	Thank you.
	My pleasure.
	Paul, take it away, Paul.
	Go ahead.
	Okay.
	Well, I don't have a...
	We've already been on here for over an hour, so let's...
	You know, I think...
	I don't know about you, but I don't know if there's a whole lot more I can say at this point.
	But what I will tell you is that Ron talked about the Portal Princess.
	His wife, Aaliyah Nyssa Pandolfi.
	And that she reportedly came here through a portal, through a pod, in a portal.
	Okay, look, it's perfectly possible.
	And to me, and I'm not saying it isn't, but from a scientific standpoint...
	You know, science is so fucking stupid that saying that...
	Just saying that is like an oxymoron.
	Scientific principle, you know, how behind the times real science, regular science is, mainstream science...
	It's nonsense.
	You know better than anyone.
	But at any rate, let's move on.
	I want to pose this, and I hope that Bob Kvyat will be listening to hear this.
	There is such a thing as creating a spec platform.
	Movie team, okay?
	So when they're going to make a movie, they get investors involved.
	They get actors involved.
	They say, in essence, they've got a workable screenplay and that it's going to make a movie.
	It's all speculative.
	And until they start, you know, even when they're doing the master filming of the movie, they still don't know if it's going to go in the can and whether or not it's going to sell and make it to the theaters and actually have legs, as they call it.
	So this is a speculative venture.
	Investors often go into speculative ventures, including technological speculative ventures.
	So what this can be sort of, you know, diagrammed out as to the Stars Academy, Joe Firmage, Bob Bigelow, any commercial operation, you know, probably Elon Musk, his company, everything they do at a certain point is going to be speculative until it proves itself to be horrible.
	You know, in sort of a repeated experiment where science can say, yes, it's real.
	So we're at the stage with certain aspects of this technology where it hasn't necessarily been proven.
	But the fact that they give it their stamp of approval and then withdraw it can be something of a problem, especially for the investors, number one.
	And certainly for an employee like Robert Kvyat, who spends hours and hours trying to get the word out of what they're doing and this great technology when they find out partway through that it's actually supposedly not workable.
	Now, there is something that goes on in black projects and in the secret space program with technology is that they take it to the point where it becomes workable, then they tell the public it's not workable, and they take it black.
	And that happens all the time.
	Some of the best technologies that are developed even in the commercial sector eventually go black.
	And I have been working For example, in the aerospace community, when that happened to the team I was with, that was part of a Boeing operation that was working on a Starship Enterprise-type vehicle, and that whole section went black literally overnight.
	And they left the Boeing location, and they were relocated All together in a way that corporations never, if anyone who works for corporations know how slowly they actually move normally.
	This happened literally overnight.
	And I was a contractor at the time.
	So I was witness to the process, okay?
	But this is a very common practice.
	So what I would say with Joe Furmage and this whole sort of dog and pony show that Ron Pandolfi has been orchestrating, also through To The Stars, is to find technology and to find possibly technologists such as yourself, Paul, in which they will attract you, wine and dine you to a certain point.
	And then when you give them what they want, they will suddenly turn around and tell you you're an idiot, discredit you, and steal your ideas.
	This is just par for the course.
	This is how the black projects, the secret government operate.
	And you should know this better than anyone else.
	What I would like to say before, or have you say before you leave, is I'd like you to tell people What has been seen by these guys?
	Why they wasted their time on you, supposedly, when you were supposed to be so inept?
	And I've already got an interview with you where we go into this in depth, but I think you could put it in a nutshell as to how you were basically told what your future has been seen to be and why they're still trying to keep you on the leash.
	Could you please tell people what is going on with you in that regard?
	Well, I'm going to segue back to over 43 years ago.
	It kind of started then, but didn't, if you understand what I'm talking about.
	I was seven years old.
	I got bored with school, and I wouldn't do my homework.
	I was more interested in staring out the window than what it would be for me to just sit there and do the math work I was doing at board me.
	And there were a lot of kids at that time, or not a lot, but a few of us, that were bored and just didn't want to do the work.
	I had better things to do with my mind and my time than to sit there and do, even in my mind at the time, was elementary school Mathematical equations.
	One plus one equals two, and so forth.
	And it didn't pique my interest.
	So, they actually thought that there was a, quote, problem, so they sent me to a research project that I have since found out was being funded in part by a CIA grant that was given to the so they sent me to a research project that I have since found out was being funded in part by a CIA grant that was given to the
	And at that time, they ran tests on me, physical tests, psychological tests, IQ tests, and even psychic testing.
	And that's kind of strange for a seven-year-old boy to be sat down on a seat with a table in front of him, having one guy show him cards with symbols on it.
	He showed...
	Takes the card deck and then shuffles them.
	Puts it with the backward-facing part of the card where you can see the other side and asking which symbol it was.
	Only to come to find out after the results were done, I happened to have missed every one of them, but here was the strange part about it.
	I was five ahead in the sequence.
	Now, where this goes to what I'm going to tell your listeners is Is that where did they get the idea to test me at that time?
	Why?
	Fast forward to 1990.
	This was 73 at the time when I was a young boy, but back to 1990.
	I went to work for the Johnson Space Center.
	I was working on a device that I was...
	I had a vision in my head about a device that I wanted to build.
	I didn't think the idea would work, but it was called the electromagnetic pulse reaction engine.
	And I worked at the Johnson Space Center in the cafeteria at that time.
	I told an engineer about my idea and asked him if it would work.
	And within three weeks I was terminated.
	From employment for being, what I found out later was because I spoke about sensitive compartmentalized information, which had to do with a NASA and U.S. Air Force project dealing with pulse detonation magnetic plasma engines.
	Okay, and that's all I'm going to get into right now.
	Fast forward to nine years after that.
	In 1998 to 1999, 2000 range.
	I was going to school taking computer science courses at the San Antonio College in San Antonio, Texas.
	And I happened to meet a professor.
	His name was William Rose, or Billy Rose for short.
	He was a psychology professor, the second chair in the psychology department at San Antonio College.
	He had heard about me and went to my friend Don Pipkin asking to meet me.
	And I had no idea why this man wanted to meet me.
	You know, I had never heard of him.
	Well, we met, I took a class of his, and we became very close friends.
	Now, I feel comfortable talking about William's work right now.
	He was one of the original technicians on the Operation Looking Glass project.
	And by the way, do I need to go into detail with your listeners about Operation Looking Glass?
	Okay, well, assuming it's what we know and that we did an interview with Dan Beerish about, if it's the same looking glass, then it basically sees the future.
	So, in terms of probabilities.
	And they have read your future on Looking Glass.
	Let's cut to the chase, because we don't have a lot more time, so I just want to make sure.
	And basically, you have been seen to be someone who contributes a great deal of technology to humanity.
	Is that not true?
	That's...
	That's part of it, but it also, what Billy told me that before, one of the last times I talked to him had to do with geopolitical issues.
	In other words, they see me in a leadership function as well.
	Now, we look at that, and we can go back to the point whenever I started the conversation about when I was a boy.
	They already knew that.
	Billy had been the original, one of the original three technicians on that program, or that project.
	And they knew then, and the two people who ran the psychic test on me, and I know for a fact who they were, Russell Karg and Dr.
	Hal Puthoff.
	Why am I breaking them up?
	Who am I connected with now?
	Right.
	Absolutely.
	Well, so it's, you know, in a sense, it's all in the family.
	So this is what we're talking about, okay?
	People that are listening so they understand where Paul's coming from, why Paul is even involved as this Sort of pivotal individual in the Bob Kvyat case, for one thing, as a witness, and also other things that will be coming forward in the future,
	and also being very involved with, basically, Joe Fermage, Hal Pudoff, Ron Pandolfi, Kit Green, all of the players, and as well as the To The Stars Academy players.
	And many other players, as well as Bledsoe and so on, who was mentioned earlier.
	So this is what we're dealing with here.
	So those that are interested in disclosure, those that follow the story and are picking up the pieces and want to understand how these things relate to each other, this is what it's all about.
	And Paul has really been very much involved both behind the scenes and And really one-on-one with some of these heavy-duty players for many, many years of his life.
	And they have been messing with him, very specifically Ron Pandolfi and very directly Ron Pandolfi.
	But there's a bigger story here that has to do with what is his contribution eventually going to be to humanity and whether or not Pandolfi, Pudoff, Russell Targ, and the whole team Behind the scenes, as well as Michael Aquino,
	And you've got to listen to my prior interview with Paul to get all the details of his life as to what they do, because they do chart all of us, especially when we become sort of put our head above the paraffin, however you call it, to see who we might potentially become, to see who we might potentially become, who we might be in the future of Earth, let's say.
	So it's worth understanding that.
	Listen, Paul, I'm going to let you go.
	I think we've gone on long enough.
	It's been quite a confusing show, I think, to people.
	But I hope some more clarity has come out because of this show.
	And I'd love to have you back in the future.
	Let's see where all this goes.
	Do you want to say maybe your predictions on whether you think this will ever go to trial?
	Well, if Bob gets his way, he really, I don't think, wants it to go to trial.
	I think what he really wants is that he gets paid what he's owed.
	And I don't fault him for that at all.
	I mean, my goodness, I was probably getting funding many years ago from Ron and Associates, but Ron has went out of his way to keep me from getting the funding I need.
	And then not only that, but to defame my character and libel me and slander me as well.
	And I hope beyond belief, I hope that this case, if it does go to trial, will open up people's eyes that, you know, Pandolfi's not a god.
	Put-Off is not a god.
	Kit Green is not a god.
	People in the UFO community need to understand that don't worship them as gods.
	They're human beings.
	They have the same frailties as you and I have.
	They put on their pants one leg at a time.
	They go to sleep, take a shower and do the other stuff that we all do.
	They may have a higher position than we have currently but it does not mean that they're any better than any of us.
	In fact With some of the issues dealing with the sociopathic nature of what they are doing, whether or not they're ordered to do it or not.
	We need to just stand firm.
	Don't always believe the hype.
	That's what I want to tell your listeners.
	Just because it's a Ron Pandolfi telling you something, a Hal Puthoff telling you something, a Joe Furmidge telling you something, or anyone else connected within that group.
	Remember one thing.
	People in the intelligence community, how do you know when they lie?
	They move their lips.
	I'm not saying all the time, but I mean, in this particular situation, you can't believe what you're being told, and you always question it.
	What it is you're being told by these people.
	Because there's always an agenda that they're working on.
	And I hate to say it from my experience, it doesn't always have, it won't always be for your benefit.
	It's for their own benefit.
	And I think that hopefully that this will shed some light on To the actual goings on and maybe stop some of this really negative behavior.
	All right.
	And that's all I'm going to say at this time.
	Thank you very much, Paul Price, for coming on the show, for arranging the show, you know, to make it possible for us to have Robert Kvyat, a wonderful producer, on the show.
	And, you know, and everyone...
	Thank you for watching.
	I encourage you to read the article on my site that tells more details in a bit of a more linear fashion, although not much, and gather some information there.
	And you can follow the story, and if it goes to trial in February, well, we'll see.
	So thanks again for watching and listening, and I want to say goodnight to everyone, and take care.
	Bye-bye.

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