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May 17, 2019 - Project Camelot

01:28:24

ANDY LLOYD: DARKER STARS : RE PLANET X

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	Thank you.
	Thank you.
	I've interviewed him a couple of times and actually I think most of them have been in person actually, which is kind of a switch.
	He is in the UK and he's an author.
	He's the author of Dark Star and he spent 10 years, I believe, if I've got that right, researching that book.
	And it's a study of Planet X, what some people call Nibiru.
	And then he took a break from that and did fiction for several years, I believe.
	And he had...
	A trilogy, and I think only the first two books are out, and we're going to talk about what happened to the third.
	And then he made another switch and went back to nonfiction and has written a new book called Darker Stars.
	And you saw that on the banner.
	And so we're going to put the links a bit later to his book so you can purchase it and so on.
	And I don't know what the situation is.
	We'll figure out Kindle, you know, in the UK or US or whatever.
	And also, I'm sure there's a hardback as well.
	So, Andy, I'm going to bring you on the show and I want to say welcome.
	And Andy is...
	Well, he's a man of many talents.
	He's done several different kinds of jobs, and I'm actually going to let him explain that to you.
	So, Andy, do you mind if you give yourself the rest of the introduction?
	Because I know that you've kind of changed careers more than once.
	Yeah, I kind of drop and change a lot, just like writing the books.
	Hi, Carrie.
	Hello, everybody.
	So I was a scientist to start with and trained as a chemist and I was actually out in UCSD for a couple of years in California so I know California quite well and then came back to Britain and ended up working in the National Health Service as a nurse in healthcare and during that time I spent a lot of time doing research and I'm also an artist, I was painting, I do all kinds of things really.
	For the last couple of years I've been teaching nursing because I kind of got to that level where I can teach it now and I've just done an academic qualification to support that.
	And during that time I kind of realized I really got to kind of really back into science again, teaching anatomy and physiology and so on.
	I'm just about to undergo teacher training here to teach chemistry in secondary schools.
	So that's another shift.
	I've kind of gone full circle from the old UCSD days and Lancaster days right back to potentially teaching around here.
	So that's what I've been doing.
	And all the time I've been writing and researching as well as a sort of a hobby and interest, but, you know, a serious one.
	I've been kind of researching Planet X for a long time, but it's in my spare time.
	Okay, so you are, in essence, you're a scientist though.
	You have a background in chemistry, correct?
	Yeah, but I was a very strange scientist.
	I had very long hair and I was a bit of an oddball in the chemistry department.
	And I think at one point, some of my senior colleagues in the department put a poster up of me looking a bit weird.
	I think they found me a bit odd and I was a bit odd.
	And I remember being at UCSD, going up to the fantastic library they've got there in La Jolla and searching around the bookshelves.
	I was reading philosophy.
	I was reading all kinds of strange esoteric stuff.
	And that was around about the time I found Sitchin and started reading him, you know, in the same way I was reading Graham Hancock and all kinds of people.
	And I kind of got really into that genre.
	So I never really lost that.
	I sort of carried on pursuing lots and lots of reading.
	But the scientific Side of what I was doing and studying made me very, very curious about what was potentially authentic and what was bogus.
	And when I started reading, you know, Hancock, for instance, Graham Hancock's amazing at drawing together science and bringing science into his arguments.
	And I always really appreciated the sources that he had and John Anthony West and so on.
	And with Sitchin, I sort of Got into the same sort of thing.
	I got really into this whole idea of, well, how, you know, how reasonable is this about Planet X, about Nibiru?
	Is this, you know, potentially realistic in the same way?
	Hancock's theories and Beauval's theories are quite realistic based on scientific press.
	And that's how I catapulted into this particular topic.
	And, you know, 20 years on now, I'm still, you know, Involved in it and researching it and looking up stuff on the internet and reading papers and really trying to think this through, because it is a very complex topic, a very enjoyable topic, but that's where I come from.
	Okay, well, what I think would be useful would be for you to summarize your first book, Dark Star, and then from there we can go to why you wrote another book, and I am assuming that you had And, you know, I did get a chance to look at some of your book, and it appears that you've got sort of a different angle, maybe a little bit different theory than you used to have on the whole story.
	So maybe we can start with, where were you when you wrote Dark Star?
	Star, I mean.
	Yeah, so Dark Star came out of a long period, as you rightly say, a long period of research, reading and stitching, probably heading on for 10 years.
	And I set up a website back in 1999, I think, and first talking about it.
	And I got really into the idea of that time.
	And actually, it hasn't changed an awful lot, I'll be honest with you.
	It's just a nuance, really.
	But I got really into the idea that potentially, you know, this Planet X body, very substantial, large Planet X body, could be a brown dwarf star, which is what I thought of at the time.
	And around about that time, there were a couple of scientists who were coming out with papers There was John Murray in England, and there was John Matisse over in the States from Louisiana, and they were coming out with papers that was talking about this potential object,
	a very substantial sort of larger-than-Jupiter object, and that really sort of tweaked my interest in this, because one of the reasons I was really struggling with Sitchin's account, which, you know, for people who don't know too much about Sitchin, he was basically saying that, you know, it's an ancient astronaut theory, but actually...
	He was saying these particular gods, as it were, were coming down from a particular planet in our solar system.
	They weren't coming from the other side of the galaxy.
	They were locals.
	You know, they were just visiting in, dropping in from a local planet.
	But this planet is unknown to us.
	You know, this is his basic premise.
	So my issue with that, and I guess one of the major critiques of Sitchin, was that, well, OK, that's all very good.
	But if you fling a planet out into the outer solar system, everything just freezes down to the ground and there's no potential for life.
	So in the brown dwarf idea I saw a great potential because a brown dwarf is by nature dark and difficult to discover but it also is warm enough to be able to create a habitable environment on a moon.
	In that respect then you could potentially have life in the same way that around Jupiter, Europa, a lot of scientists believe or think it's very likely that below the icy sheets that surround the planet there's Warm oceans that could have alien life.
	So this concept grabbed me and I came up with this brown dwarf idea and I rattled it around for a few years.
	And somehow or other, I found a publisher and we put a book together and we put a book out and it was, you know, reasonably successful.
	And this idea of this brown dwarf Nibiru kind of took off.
	And it kind of took on a life of its own as things often do on the internet.
	And it's become, since then, Actually, the beer and brown dwarf, they're very often used as synonymous terms now.
	So I'm very pleased that that's the case, created a bit of a cultural meme, as it were, but it's become something slightly different from what I anticipated.
	So we can talk about that in a little bit.
	So that was the premise for Dark Star.
	It was an integration of Sitchin's ideas with what's actually potential from science and putting them together and then sort of Recognizing that there could be a reality behind his ideas.
	Okay, and so then you actually you wrote fiction and I guess let's cover that very briefly.
	So you've got really the beginnings of a wonderful trilogy, I guess the two books, and that's all about the return of Marduk and Anunnaki, I believe.
	You can tell me what it's really about from your perspective.
	And I do highly recommend them.
	I think this will make a great movie if you would just write the third book.
	But if you can explain to us what's going on with that.
	Okay, so there are two books.
	The first one was Ezekiel 1.
	The second one was The Followers of Horus.
	And Ezekiel 1 was effectively a story that was like a space adventure in reverse.
	It was...
	It was to kick off a trilogy, and it was largely set on Earth, and it was a sort of investigative reporter who was not really very good at being an investigative reporter, who was trying to get into the...
	He'd been given some leads, and he thought they were a bit bogus, but people kept sort of dying around him, and he started to get a bit suspicious there might be something to it.
	So he sort of pursued some leads, which led him into a bit of trouble.
	But the leads were...
	Leading him towards the realisation that there was a spaceship that was being built by a sort of a black project NASA group that had an absolutely colossal budget that was coming out of God knows where and was entirely secret that nobody knew about this thing but it was sort of way beyond anything that NASA had ever produced.
	And this project was just being kept under wraps, was sucking out a load of money out of America and no one really knew about this thing but he kind of picked up on it and was getting very dangerous for him so that story kind of ends with him sort of realizing that there's something afoot but never quite getting to find out exactly what it was and then that leads into a second story which moves more into actually what this spaceship was all about and it actually was a reality which ruins the first book
	of course and then the second book is about this About the flight of the spaceship, which is effectively a manned probe to the outer solar system to go to this dark star planet.
	So the problem with that is that unbeknownst to the people who are running that ship, there is another sort of subplot behind that little adventure where the people who are taking this ship out on a 10-year mission don't realise that they've got a stowaway.
	And that's the way, effectively, the whole mission is his way of getting back to his home run.
	So that's essentially the two books.
	And you're right.
	I mean, actually, I think it's a great film because it's completely, everything's turned upside down in it.
	And the third book is, they write on this planet, and the third book is in my head.
	So it's, you know, it's good to go.
	I just haven't gotten around to writing it.
	But now that I've got the non-fiction one that I've been working on for a long time out of the way, I'm seriously considering finishing it off.
	So there's a little bit of impetus now.
	Oh, very good.
	Well, very glad to hear that.
	And so that brings us, I guess, a little bit more up to date here.
	But can you then make the transition to why you decided to write Darker Stars and how long it took you to actually write it?
	I'm just curious.
	I guess when I wrote the fictional work, I had in my head the idea of trying to reach an audience who weren't really necessarily sort of technically au fait with the whole Nibiru and Sich and things, because, you know, Sich is quite an opaque writer.
	He's not an easy person to read, and he's got his critics, of course, as well.
	And I'm not particularly an easy person to read either.
	I'm quite opaque as well.
	I hope to be interesting, but, you know, I'm of the same sort of genre.
	So through my fiction, I was hoping to bring the ideas that he presented and I presented to sort of a broader audience.
	But in essence, I'm still trying to get my head around the reality of this.
	Now, two things happened.
	One of them was that, as I alluded to before, the Nibiru brown dwarf idea as a sort of cultural meme took off on the internet and created its own identity and became a sort of a more of a concept around, you know, impending catastrophe.
	Now that's been going on since about 2003 anyway, the concept of Planet X, and it's not a particularly new thing, but it would become sort of the dominant force within the Planet X subject.
	And I found myself in a situation, rather oddly, of almost sort of trying to, you know, counter my own theory, which is a little bit weird, but just almost trying to just sort of, you know, push that back a little bit.
	The realisation that there needed to be a bit of balance there.
	It's fine to talk about Nibiru coming into the solar system and the potential catastrophes that it probably caused in the past, but from everything I've looked at and read and considered and done maths on and all the rest of it, I can't see how it would be an impending catastrophe for us now.
	So that got me into a degree of difficulty, I think, with this subject, and it required me to have a bit of a rethink.
	Firstly, because I think there wasn't a book out there that integrated the kind of edgy, speculative, wonderful, let's have a go at this and try and figure out what's going on, and let's just open up the doors to all kinds of ideas, kind of stuff that I'm into, with Solid science, you know, the reality is the scientists would come along and say you can't do this, you can't do that, here's the constraint and so on.
	So I wanted to sort of try to bring those two back into alignment a little bit.
	So I set up a dark star blog about six or seven years ago and I decided that I would commit myself to writing a monthly blog On bringing in sort of the latest news out of the astrophysics community, but also, you know, integrating that with lots of my own speculation and trying to keep it interesting and so on.
	And that's been going.
	I've been pretty much religious with that.
	I kept that going.
	I think I'm on blog number 74 now.
	And, you know, it takes a lot of time and it's a lot of free information for people to look at.
	And, you know, I just do it for the love of it, really.
	But out of that, The potential for another book, because obviously I accumulated an awful lot of material, and my publisher was always saying, look, Andy, you've got some great stuff here, let's do something with it.
	But it needed a bit of impetus.
	So about, well, at the beginning of 2016, the guys in Caltech, Brown and Batagin, which we can talk about a little bit, put forward the idea of Planet Nine, which immediately sort of hit headlines all around the world, and it was on the BBC News and so on in there, because Dr.
	Brown, he might be Professor Brown, I guess he is.
	Mike Brown, he's got quite a lot of kudos within the astrophysical community.
	When he starts talking about Planet X, people can sit up and take notice.
	So he came forward and put some very compelling evidence for the existence of a Planet X body and he rebranded it as Planet Nine.
	From my perspective, this was like, wow, this is amazing.
	We're off, aren't we?
	We're absolutely off.
	And he said, look, this thing absolutely, definitely exists.
	I have no doubt whatsoever this thing exists.
	I've indirectly proven its existence to a very, very high degree of accuracy.
	I mean, there's always some doubt, but basically he said this, you know, I'm absolutely certain.
	All we've got to do is go out there and find it.
	So that generated a lot of impetus for my kind of writing, and I've been following his work for some years anyway.
	And You know, I thought, well, this is a great opportunity to bring Planet X back towards science because science is actually coming and saying, yeah, Planet X is real, you know, which they've for decades, decades, they've been saying, no, no, Planet X, whatever, she's just lunatics.
	But now they were there saying, you know, this is real, but we're actually going to make it a serious subject again and lunatics, you know.
	So I thought, well, okay, great.
	I'm going to, you know, really work with a blog with this and, you know, get seriously into the astrophysics.
	And I, you know, started reading a lot of the papers because once he'd come up with it, there were a lot of other people in the wings, all these astrophysicists interested in planet X who knew, you know, and suddenly they're out there publishing papers, putting stuff out, trying to find this thing, trying to figure out where it is.
	And of course, you know, I, you know, put myself in the driving seat as, you know, A journalist, effectively, looking at it from a science journalist's point of view.
	But at the same time, I was also deeply thinking about why it was that they hadn't found this thing yet.
	Because for the life of me, I couldn't figure it out.
	You know, if there's all these telescopes that can see right across the galaxy and can see tiny little things, you know, On other planets in the solar system now.
	And it's just amazing ability to be able to see stuff right on Earth.
	This planet X is proving so elusive.
	So I'd already started thinking, look, you know, there must be something else.
	There must be another reason why this thing is kind of remaining hidden.
	It's like they're seeing footprints in the snow.
	They know there's a bear out in the woods, but no one can find the bear.
	But the footprints are there.
	So they know there's a bear.
	They just can't find it.
	But you'd think they should be able to find a bear because it's a bear, you know?
	I like your analogy.
	Okay.
	Yeah.
	So, you know, from my perspective, I was trying to communicate this to people.
	You know, the bear isn't in our face.
	It's out in the woods.
	But I cannot for the life of me understand why we can't find this.
	You know, the scientists say, oh, well, there's this and there's that and there's the other.
	But really speaking, we're three years down the line now and we still haven't found this thing.
	And it's all mysterious.
	It's all a bit weird.
	Okay.
	Given that it's all mysterious and a bit weird, though, I guess we need to get into, I guess, the nitty gritty as to what is exactly your conclusion, if that's okay.
	Can we do that?
	That's, I guess, what some people would call a spoiler alert.
	But, you know, people will certainly, serious people, will want to see how you reach your conclusion anyway.
	And then maybe it will also incite a fair amount of controversy depending on where you go with it.
	I haven't finished your book, so I have a theory about what your conclusion might be.
	And I also have my own theories based on Camelot, because Camelot has been getting a lot of information for many, many years on this subject, and we even had our car broken into at Milan Airport over our interview with Luca Scantamberlo, who had met with...
	God, I'm going to forget his name now, but the guy who had gotten supposedly a videotape of Planet X from the Vatican, the secret Vatican service.
	And it's been a while since I've even gone back to this subject.
	So that journalist, whose name should come to me, basically went on the run.
	Cristofaro Barbato was his name.
	And so all that drama is to say that there was...
	Perhaps still is.
	A lot of controversy around the subject and so many different theories, as you say, and where is it and so on.
	So can you kind of begin to tell us the way you see that picture?
	Yeah.
	So first of all, a big hi to the Italian Planet X community because Italians are really into Planet X and fair play.
	They're amazing.
	So I just throw that out there.
	It doesn't surprise me that you're talking about the Vatican and Planet X researchers in Italy.
	So, I think the astrophysicists hunting for this thing, the locations that they've chosen to look at, this is one aspect of this.
	I'm fairly convinced that they're looking in almost the polar opposite direction of where they should be.
	That's the first thing.
	And I was pretty convinced of that right off the bat.
	The reason for that was when they first published the paper back in 2016, Brown and Vasogen, they pretty much directed their focus along a particular axis, which, you know, but basically what they were saying was there was a cluster of objects in the very outer solar system that had very extended orbits and were just behaving in very, very irregular ways.
	But if you looked at the math to do with their orbits, you found that actually there were configurations within them that are common to all of them.
	Now, it's very complex and very difficult, and I don't need to bore you with it.
	But effectively, the chances of that being the case are so remote that it becomes meaningful that something has caused that configuration.
	And that's why they were saying, you know, look, you know, for this, all of these things to be configured in space in the way they are with their orbits, something beyond them is Causing them to align in that way.
	This cluster has been caused.
	So they, at that time, they had all of the objects aligned over on one side of the solar system.
	And they assumed then that they were aligned with an object, you know, on the opposite side of the solar system.
	So it would be anti-aligned.
	And the math would work for that, you see.
	I was at the time looking at where they thought that would be and they were coming up with Orion on one end and the opposite side of the sky would be Sagittarius on the other side or roughly Sagittarius.
	Now both of those by some strange bizarre coincidence and Planet X topics are full of strange bizarre coincidences.
	Both of those opposing places are both objects which back in the 80s were Areas of interest for the iris space telescope so back in 8384 the infrared Astronomical Telescope was doing the sky survey infrared in space and Allegedly or actually they went into printing various papers discovered Effectively a Jupiter sized planet and there were two reports one of them was in Orion one of them was in Sagittarius opposite
	sides of sky strangely Planet Nine configured with those alignments.
	Never talked about in the astrophysics community, but, you know, fact, right?
	So I thought, well, that's really odd because I've always faded as Sagittarius and they're talking about Orion.
	So I was kind of looking at it thinking, right, if you read Sitchin in a certain way, it's probably going to be Sagittarius.
	And when this object comes in close to the sun, it would be in Orion.
	See?
	Now they're saying it's the other way around.
	So that's the first thing.
	The first thing is, I think, actually, they got it the wrong way around.
	And I think that there has been some shift in position with that because as they've discovered more of these objects, these clusters, they've kind of gone out into both directions and there is the potential for actually the cluster that they found by observational bias just happens to be the one that was the most difficult one.
	You see what I mean?
	Well, the easiest to find, but the most difficult one with the objects.
	And it might well be that there's more objects at the other side.
	Again, very technical.
	So that's one thing.
	The second thing, which is mostly what I'm talking about in the book on moving arguments towards and trying to suggest, is that this object is actually hidden.
	Now, a lot of people have talked about Nibiru being hidden and they've talked about Nibiru being hidden behind shields or behind, I don't know, whatever really, hidden behind the sun usually.
	But generally speaking, you know, a lot of people think, well, how on earth haven't we seen it?
	We should have been able to see it.
	It must be hidden.
	So I've been thinking for a long time, well, how can it be hidden actually using physics, using normal ways of doing things without having to get into sort of alien tech type ideas?
	So I kind of started looking at the potential for something being different with this object as a planet out in the outer solar system as a result of it being in a different part of space.
	All our planets that we know about, that we can see in the sky when we go out into the night and see them up in the night sky, all of those planets are in the solar system, as we understand it, and they are within the realm of the sun, called the heliosphere.
	And the heliosphere has got, as you know, if you look up at a solar eclipse, you can see all those lovely flames.
	Of course, you should never look at it directly, but you see those lovely flames, the ring, the corona.
	It's the sun pushing away the solar wind And throwing its great sort of particles out into the solar system.
	And that drives this bubble outwards, you see.
	And that clears dust down.
	And one of the reasons why we're not in a dusty environment is because the sun's pushing all the dust down.
	Now, Planet X, by definition, is outside that heliosphere.
	Which is about sort of 250 astronomical units out or between 100 and 200 astrophysical units out.
	Voyage has just gone roughly through that barrier and it's been traveling out there since the 70s.
	So Planet X, by definition, is beyond that barrier.
	It is in interstellar space, by definition.
	Now, people don't often think about this because people, you know, they just don't.
	They just don't consider it in that way.
	But I started to think, well, maybe there's some Something different about Planet X because of the fact that it's located in interstellar space.
	And I recognized and realized that outside the boundaries of the heliosphere in interstellar space, dust doesn't get removed in the way that it gets removed by the Sun.
	There's a completely different physical reality out there.
	And it's all to do with drag and the movement of the galactic ties and goodness knows what else.
	Again, all very technical.
	But I thought there's an opportunity here To understand that Planet X might actually have different physical attributes to it than the planets that we see when we look up in the night sky and that's simply because of the environment that it's in being different to what we're used to and we just assume because you know all the planets we know are within one environment and all the planets that we see it as extrasolar planets are also in a similar environment to the ones ours are in we just assume they're all the same but if you've got a planet in interstellar space
	it might be different and So I came up with this idea about the potential for this planet to be hidden effectively within a dust cloud.
	Alright.
	Okay.
	And this does make some sense.
	It also aligns at least with one of my witnesses, Cameron Faley, who unfortunately kind of went off the deep end at a certain point.
	I think he was targeted by the Illuminati.
	He had a background in the financial sector, and that was really his area of expertise.
	Planet X investigation became something of a hobby.
	And he reached the wrong conclusion about when we might see it and how it might affect us and these kinds of things.
	So that hasn't happened.
	However, he did have some interesting things to say about it.
	And one of the things was, of course, the dust.
	And so I see where you're going with that.
	Now, I have had my own theories based on what I've heard.
	I think.
	And that is because of the race of beings that occupy it and their technology, so to speak.
	And that planet X, as they call it, Nibiru, that planetoid, yes, circulating around a brown dwarf, but being a what I thought might be a planetoid rather than, you know, what we think of as a normal planet.
	So in other words, planet X is a spaceship and as a spaceship, not only can it go interdimensional, um, or become, you know, cloak itself in such a way to appear interdimensional.
	Um, but at the same time, it could also, uh, Change its orbit.
	In other words, change its direction.
	And that would make it even more difficult to deal with.
	But those are just theories that I came up with.
	Now, there may be not a lot of good science behind what I'm saying.
	Although...
	Anyway, so I think...
	Are you saying, though, with the...
	What you call, I guess, the...
	Being interstellar and having a dust cloud, are you saying that it would, would the dust cloud sort of dissipate at times and make it visible and then, you know, start up again?
	Or do you think that it's permanently hidden?
	And what about the, if this is a mini, I don't know if your theory is still that it's a mini solar system in essence that, you know, circulates around a brown dwarf because that kind of further It complicates the situation.
	So, the thing about the dust cloud is that it configures with the concept of the wind disc.
	Now, Sitchin was very interested in the ancient Sumerian, Babylonian, Mesopotamian, and Egyptian symbolism of the sun, as it's understood by most folk, as this sort of beautiful wind disc symbol.
	Now, if you've ever seen images of what the solar system's heliosphere is supposed to look like, it's not a sphere.
	It actually, bizarrely, looks more like a sort of croissant.
	It's sort of like this.
	Now, it has that kind of wind disc look.
	Now, if you were to take the same sort of heliosphere, but you were having a heliosphere around a fairly substantial interstellar planet, And you were to wrap that also within its own sort of dust cloud of material that's accumulated around it over time that it doesn't get rid of in any particularly easy way.
	That dust and the magnetic field combined would create something approximating a wing disc shape.
	And this is one of the reasons why I was very excited about this idea.
	Initially, back about 15 years ago, I thought to myself, well, that wing disc shape has got to come into the Nibiru story some way.
	And I sort of thought, well, you know, if Nibiru is sort of a browned wall, fiery planet, comes into the solar system, it's got a, you know, this wonderful aurora around it.
	And then as it sort of strikes the solar wind, in the same way that comets get their tails sort of wrapped back, Then the fiery sort of wings of Nibiru would be wrapped back as well, and it'd end up looking like this big red dragon in the sky and this fiery comet and all this.
	And, you know, quite a sort of very sort of exciting visual idea.
	And I thought to myself, well, that's the winged disc in its essence as well, you see.
	But as time's gone on, I've come to realise that the problem with the Pram Dwarf idea was that although it could be quite a dark object, it's obviously very...
	Weighty.
	It's very massive.
	It's very heavy.
	And the constraints that scientists were putting upon the potential for finding an object within our sort of extended solar system heading up to sort of 15, 20 Jupiter masses was getting kind of really, really heavy.
	It would have to basically be right about a light year out for that to work.
	So that's too far for it to be meaningful for us.
	And so I've kind of had to bring that concept down now to something a little bit more practical.
	I still think there is some potential for it to be what's called a sub-brown dwarf, you know, something of a few Jupiter masses, out sort of at the sort of first comet cloud, you know, a warp cloud.
	I still think there's a potential for that.
	But most scientists would say, well, I'll be honest with you, that's not really workable.
	Mostly because of the Y's search, the infrared search that was done a few years ago.
	So that notwithstanding, let's assume they're right, and that sort of messes me up a little bit.
	Let's assume that it's something smaller.
	If we go back to Planet Nine, Planet Nine are actually talking about an object that's what's called a super-Earth.
	They're talking about something that's about 10 Earth masses.
	And that starts to correlate Quite closely with what Sitchin used to talk about.
	So the latest Planet Nine thinking is that it's an object that's roughly about 500 astronomical units out, and it's five to ten Earth masses.
	And this is starting to get, again, quite close to what Sitchin was talking about with Nibiru when he was talking about something that was about five Earth masses, and he reckoned it was about 250, 300 astronomical units out for his 3,600-year orbit to work.
	But theirs is obviously further.
	It would have a much longer orbit, maybe in the tens of thousands of years.
	But, you know, it's ballpark.
	So if we start to think of Sitchin being, you know, ballpark right and Planet Nine being ballpark right and somewhere between and there's some kind of reality, then that wouldn't be a brown dwarf.
	But if you take the brown dwarf idea and you shove it out into the comet cloud and you sort of go an extra magnitude out, then that's still possible.
	So let's go with Planet Nine.
	Let's say you've got a Planet Nine object.
	For me, that Planet Nine object at sort of 10 Earth masses is still a very substantial body.
	It would be difficult to see.
	There's a paper that's only just come out today that's talking about some sort of observational, observational, new observational method using gravity to try and figure out where this thing is.
	But it recognises in this paper, and the astrophysicists recognise it is a big ask to try and find this thing, and they are really struggling in infrared and visible, the whole lot.
	Sort of dark energy surveys look into this thing.
	You know, they've really thrown everything at it and they just can't find it.
	So for me, if it was wrapped up in some kind of nebula, which I think is entirely possible because I think, you know, again, I talk about a lot of the rationales within darker stars, you know, and I don't want to sort of go into it in too much technical detail because it's not great to listen to if it interests you that's in the book.
	But the If it is wrapped up in this cloud, then that means that its heat signature, the thing that you'd be trying to find in infrared, which is mostly what people try to use when they're trying to find Planet X, that would be messed up by the fact that it's wrapped up in this dark nebula.
	So that would effectively have blinded it to the WISE survey.
	And that would explain why WISE never found it.
	And again, even if you went up to a sort of sub-brand dwarf a little bit further out, potentially, That would also explain it.
	So you get your windus, you get your reason why it's not there, and you get a whole new way of thinking about the mechanics of interstellar planets.
	Quite a lot in one book.
	Right.
	Okay.
	Well, very good.
	Yeah.
	Very interesting.
	So what about...
	The cover-up, because, you know, you can't say there isn't a cover-up on this subject.
	In fact, there's kind of a massive cover-up, really.
	And, for example, why else would they break into our car at an airport in Milan when we had just come back from interviewing Lucas Gunton Burlo?
	And they didn't...
	Actually, these weren't just thieves.
	There was a credit card very...
	We're just sitting in this little scoopy thing in the dash, and they didn't touch it.
	They didn't take anything that we could observe, and they ransacked it.
	They broke the lock, so they weren't trying to be careful or stealthy.
	And I believe it was done by, you know, what maybe would be classified as the police or something in that, you know, some kind of, you know, body of authority, whatever, who could get away with this kind of behavior at an airport parking lot, which is...
	It's interesting.
	The parking lot is bordered by a highway.
	It's not in a rural area.
	It's not even in a city.
	It's in outer limits and all that kind of thing.
	Um, that tells me that there was still, and this was, I can't remember what year, but I've been doing Camelot for, um, since, um, 2005.
	So this probably would be, I don't know, 2007.
	Let's just say, generally speaking, I could look it up.
	You can look up my interview with, um, well, we are right after that.
	We interviewed, um, Leo Zagami, we flew to Norway.
	That's why our car was at the airport, because we went from interviewing Luca Scandamberlo in northern Italy to the Milan airport, and then flew out to go to Norway and came back to Milan.
	So that's how it worked.
	And we had a car, you know, because Bill was from England, and we drove to Europe.
	Strangely.
	So it is interesting.
	You know, they thought Luca had gotten from Cristofaro Barbato a videotape.
	This is quite a few years ago, so there were still things like videotapes going around and discs and whatnot.
	So it was said to be a videotape, as I recall.
	So that was the story.
	And by the way, for people that are interested, Cristofaro Barbato, the journalist who made all of this famous, found himself completely unable to get a job.
	I guess he was fired from his newspaper.
	I believe.
	And he was persona non grata in Italy.
	And I talked to him like a year or two later, and he simply was having a terrible time surviving.
	So, you know, all of this effort is not for no reason.
	So something, you know, where there's smoke, there's fire, as they say, so and so.
	So they were looking for something.
	There is a body, and there are perhaps many, maybe actually from, I guess, the Vatican telescope or whatever, a real, maybe there is a film that exists.
	We certainly didn't get it.
	But that's why I'm throwing out to you, saying there is a cover-up.
	We know there's a cover-up.
	So you're talking about scientists now making a very strenuous effort around Planet Nine.
	And that's all well and good.
	But I wonder, first of all, of course, you have to wonder whether they're the exact same thing.
	And I see where you're going with it.
	There sounds like there's some parallels, definitely.
	But I have heard from at least my witnesses that there are Many planetoids coming in and out of our solar system fairly often and that we simply don't know about it.
	They don't report it or whatever.
	Now, these are things that may also have to do with cover-up.
	So, end of question.
	Question, what about the cover-up?
	Well, one of the lovely things about writing fiction is you can kind of bring your ideas about what may be going on in that sort of dark realm into fruition.
	And that's one of the reasons I really, really enjoy writing the books, because you can explore conspiracy ideas.
	And, you know, there is a vast potential here for that.
	I totally get that.
	People have written to me about the work done by the Naval Observatory back in the 80s.
	Isn't that Harrington?
	Wasn't it Harrington?
	That's right.
	And so there's been a lot of speculation and there's been some people who've actually seen images that came from...
	There's one particular source I have...
	He used to know Laurie Pye, I'm not going to use his name, but I could if people are interested and put you in contact with him, who says he's got a photograph that came out of the Naval Observatory because he knew someone who worked there and they got this of Planet X. So there's the potential there from back in the 80s where Planet X was again having a bit of a heyday, a little bit like Planet Nine is at the moment, where actually IRAS spotted something, the Naval Observatory spotted something, And then it got killed.
	You know, the subject just got sort of shot in the head by the big boys in the astrophysics community.
	And, you know, in the same way that when you're sort of looking at and slightly off road here, but when you start looking back at sort of Roswell and all the stuff that happened back in the day with, you know, flying saucers and so on, the way that subject kind of got sort of trodden on and squished and all of the potentially interesting information just kind of got sidelined and And the rubbish was brought out and then debunked.
	And, you know, there's potential that the Planet X subject has suffered with the same thing.
	Now, you could argue, you could argue that that's actually been going on in front of our eyes for the last 15 years.
	And the subject, almost a serious sort of, a serious study that comes out of Sitchin's work as to our origins and, you know, another planet in the solar system and the correlations between What he was describing and the stuff that came out of the observatory and Planet Nine, all this stuff.
	It just gets sidelined because actually it's not sensational enough.
	It's not interesting enough for most people.
	And they just want to know when Planet X is going to be here and destroy the world.
	So, you know, I mean, I'm interested in the catastrophism of Planet X. I think, you know, it may have something to do with the Clovis Comet 13 years ago.
	And I write about that in The Darker Stars as well, because I think, you know, there's...
	There are some interesting correlations with comet swarms and catastrophism and the work of Barry Warmkessel in this regard.
	There's some interesting correlations with that and the orbit of this thing and I think there's some traction with that.
	So the thing that interests me then is why does all this stuff come out of the woodwork that just fogs it?
	You don't know what's true and what isn't anymore because there's so much nonsense out there.
	And that, for me, I look at that and I think, well, I can't say for any specific thing whether this is the case or not, but I have a fairly strong opinion that a lot of this stuff's coming from countries that are trying to mess with our heads, right, as part of a sort of a very strong disinformation campaign.
	So, you know, notwithstanding the potential for our own governments to be wanting to, you know, put things aside, there are other foreign governments that are doing a great job of it as well, just trying to confuse us all.
	So, you know, I totally get it.
	I think that there's, and that's why I like writing the fiction, because you can really start to go into this without having to say X person did this or Y person did that, which is obviously, you know, without proof, you can't substantiate it.
	I have suspicions about things, but, you know, I've got to, you know, we live in a world where people sue each other.
	So, you know, I've got to keep those to myself, because, you know, without due proper factual information to back it up, it's scandalous.
	It's libelous.
	So, yeah, I agree with you.
	I think there's great potential for that.
	I would say, though, that the guys doing the science on this, then I don't think anyone's putting any pressure on them.
	I think they're getting on with their work.
	And I think there's bona fide reasons to think that they're trying to find this thing and they haven't been able to find it.
	I don't see them as being the bad guys.
	What would interest me is what would happen at the point where they find it.
	And what happens then?
	And that was one of the things I really wanted to explore in Ezekiel 1.
	You know, if they haven't found it, there's no problem.
	You know, they can go off and look for their bear in the woods.
	It's what happens when they capture the bear in the woods.
	That's when things would get very, very interesting.
	Because I think there's great potential, great potential, for governments in the world to be very anxious about the discovery of Planet X. Because if Sitchin's right, and it's an if, but if he's right, then it He overturns the entire Apple car.
	His paradigm is so mind-wrenching that everything that we know is wrong, as Lloyd Pye used to say.
	And, you know, there's the potential there for trouble.
	So, yes, I would say to the scientists, guys, you're doing a great job.
	Go out there and find it.
	It's obviously a difficult job, but, you know, there may be consequences to finding this.
	And that's when, you know, that's when the kind of things you're talking about start to happen, I think.
	Okay, so, but let's, you know, just go back.
	So, in essence, our car was broken into.
	There supposedly was a videotape that Christopher basically lost his job over and perhaps even his reputation, I don't know.
	And Then, you know, so these two things I can't ignore.
	I have to say something's going on with that.
	There is a...
	Even back then, there was a very strenuous cover-up, at least in Italy, and you even...
	It's interesting that you sort of said that there's a very avid group in Italy that are sort of fans, if you want to call it, of the whole Planet X idea and or Nibiru.
	So...
	Those kind of things do go together.
	So what are, you know, OK, let's talk about where you might want to go from here.
	So I think for me personally, I need to explore the potential for the third book.
	And I think some of the conspiracy elements to this story, if you like, the narrative, the fanatics narrative, need exploring further.
	I'm really quite interested in doing that.
	The Italian community are very, very interested.
	I mean, you know, the Italians, obviously, they've got a kind of a very strong, you know, religious mindset, not in a sort of, not in an extreme way, but in a sort of a very sort of, it's a strong part of their cultural heritage.
	So, you know, they believe in things and they get strongly attached to them.
	And Planet X is a very strong thing.
	They're very, very interested in it.
	And they're very interested in particularly what it means in, With regards to the Bible.
	So again, I'll come back to this whole paradigm thing.
	You know, you talk about Planet X. If this object exists and if it has the connotations attached to it that many research like Sitchin and others have offered to us, then it changes everything.
	And the powers that be in this world, they don't take lightly to having their power base destabilised by something that comes out of left field that just blows everything out of the water and explains away the stuff that they've been offering to the people as part of their whole ideological framework.
	So I think the Italians are right to take this subject very seriously and they're quite devoted to it and I don't, I mean, it contrasts very strongly with my country where there's very, very little interest in the subject, I'll be honest with you.
	America, there's a lot more interest in it.
	And again, I think countries where, this is my own personal sort of thinking, but countries where there isn't a very strong religious mindset, there isn't one in the UK, they don't have so much interest in Planet X because they don't see the potential for it in terms of explaining so much from our past.
	Do you follow that, Kerry?
	Does that make sense?
	Well, that's an interesting idea and may have some value.
	Although I don't, I mean, that's, you know, I guess there are people that are sort of looking at the, if you want to call it religious for lack of a better word, but looking at ancient history is not the same thing as being religious.
	And, you know, I just got back from Egypt.
	So I lead tours in Egypt looking at ancient history.
	I'm very interested myself in it, but I'm not religious in the slightest.
	I am spiritual, if you want to call it that.
	But that's a whole different ballgame.
	So, all right.
	So now you wrote about more than Planet X in your book.
	And so now I want to ask you, and I'm going to just see what kind of time we have here.
	So we still have it.
	If you don't mind, if you're good for it, we have time for questions, a half hour in which we can do questions, and you can answer my question right now about some of the other topics and why you went into those other topics.
	I noticed that you went into Mars and the Moon and various things, and it looks like you...
	You were kind of putting, working on a sort of theory of planetoids in a sense.
	Now maybe I got that wrong and like I said I haven't finished your book so I don't know, but can you tell me something about why it is in a book about what seemed to be mainly about Planet X are these other, you sort of explored these other planetoids.
	So The reason why this is all connected is because the position that Planet X has within the history of the solar system is intrinsic to this whole narrative.
	So Sitchin's idea, coming back to him, was that Marduk, the planet Nibiru, whatever you might want to call it, was a rogue planet from interstellar space that sort of came through the solar system and messed with it significantly.
	Now, that appears to correlate with a period about 3.9 billion years ago called the Late Heavy Bombardment, which was a period of catastrophism within the solar system where the Earth and the Moon and the other planets of the solar system, particularly the inner planets, were pummeled, absolutely pummeled, by massive asteroids, meteors, whatever the heck they were, for the best part of several hundred million years.
	So this wasn't just something sweeping through like an express train causing a short period of disturbance.
	There was something that happened within the solar system that messed everything up and threw it through all the sort of plates into the air and it all just went completely messed up.
	Now we know that the late heavy bombardment is a reality and as a result of the fact that not only Earth but these other planets were affected it's clear that they're part of this story too.
	So Sitchin, again, talked about Nibiru coming through and crashing into a planet in the occupied position within the asteroid belt.
	So, that was called Tiamat, watery monster, big watery planet, was crunched into two, spliced into two.
	Lots of bits flew out into the solar system.
	Some of it became the comet, some of it became the asteroid belt, and the biggest chunk of it was sort of knocked and repelled into the inner solar system to become the Earth.
	So, with its moon.
	So, that was...
	Sitchin's concept, and Planet X then got knocked away but became part of the Sun's family, but just at a very distant location, but would continue to, you know, re-enter the solar system periodically.
	So this was his premise.
	Now, for me, if you're trying to understand Planet X, you can't just look for Planet X. You also have to try to make sense of that story and that narrative that he's put together, which he Has developed from ancient sort of Babylonian creation myth.
	So, again, it's speculative interpretation.
	A lot of people have got a lot of problems with it.
	But if there's any kernel of truth to it, then there should be clues with the other planets in the solar system and with our moon and Mars and so on that would enable us to say, well, actually, that's interesting because that kind of fits with this whole catastrophism thing.
	Now, astrophysicists, they say, yeah, that catastrophism took place, but it was because there was this great migration of the planets.
	And they have this thing called the Nice model where they discuss movement of the big planets and the movement of the planets causes everything to get shoved about and therefore you get this heavy bombardment.
	But it's just as easy to say, actually, maybe something came into the solar system and caused some serious problems and catastrophism in its own mind.
	So when I start looking at things like what's going on on the Moon, I start looking at what's going on with Mars and its strange orbit and its bizarre climate and the fact that it's got like water potentially moving across its surface and it somehow got killed at some point but may have been a sort of life-bearing planet at one point in the past.
	These are all parts of me trying to put together a gestal or a jigsaw or trying to picture the solar system as described by And the reality that we see in front of us, but it's not understood because his paradigm isn't in any way accepted.
	So that's why I bring those in.
	But by doing so, you start to then get wrapped up into the mysteries of each of those planets.
	So by exploring those, you start to realize, well, hey, what's going on with Mars is just frankly bizarre.
	And that's worth a chapter in a book, because let's look at that, because there's all this stuff that's just totally anomalous and bizarre, and they're all scratching their heads trying to figure it out.
	And that's worth exploring.
	And if, again, you bring in the Planet X notion, maybe there's some reasons why this happened.
	What's happening with the Moon?
	Why is, you know, there's water on the Moon?
	You know, the water is the same type of water we've got on Earth, which turns out to be the same sort of type of water they have in the asteroids.
	But hold on, where did the water from the Earth come from?
	Wasn't it supposed to be from the comics?
	Now it's from the asteroids.
	How could it have come from the asteroids?
	How did water get here in the first place?
	When you start to look at the Earth and the Moon system, Then you start to realise that actually Earth's in the wrong place.
	Earth shouldn't be here.
	Earth should be out near the asteroid belt because of all the water that's here.
	But these topics get quite complex.
	So it isn't a case of just being able to say, oh, that's proof of this or that's proof of that.
	That needs exploring a little bit in depth and, you know, exploring the potential science angles that come out of it.
	And, you know, I talk a lot about Pluto and the Kuiper belt.
	Because clearly, the further you go out into the outer solar system, the closer you are to planet X, the more those objects out there may be defined in some way by having this large outer neighbour.
	And I think it's worth exploring the science of those things in order to be able to better understand the overall picture.
	So that's why, you know, I've put those chapters in.
	But I've also brought it back home in terms of the catastrophism on Earth that has occurred previously.
	You know, in the past and occurred maybe sort of 15-20,000 years ago with the Clovis comment and so on.
	So, you know, there's the potential there for, you know, significant, as you say, sort of new understandings about ancient history.
	Okay, so I appreciate that.
	I think that's actually, you know, wonderful to hear that you did all that, and that you looked at it from that perspective and continue to do so.
	Just in the interest of time, I do want to open this up to the chat room, if you don't mind.
	How are you with that?
	Are you okay?
	Okay, so people that are in the chat, if you want to ask Andy some questions, please put them in all caps.
	And thank you for the person that, I guess, donated some money here in the chat.
	To Camelot.
	I apologize.
	I don't quite know what that all entails.
	So if that person wants to ask a question, be sure to put that in the chat as well.
	And I'll try to find it.
	But please, if you've already asked a question, the trouble is that we have...
	Quite a substantial chat room, and I can't go back over all the past stuff because it would take me too long.
	So if you can put your questions in the chat at this moment, it would help.
	Someone wants to...
	I don't know what they're actually...
	I'm not sure about the wording.
	Something about being led astray with respect to Anunnaki...
	Do you think this is possible?
	I don't know if they're talking about the cover-up, or whether they think Nibiru is leading people astray, or maybe they could frame that question a little more clear, but Andy, do you want to take a stab at it?
	Otherwise, I can ask another one.
	Well, you know, this is a subject dear to my heart, and one of the reasons I wrote the books, the Ezekiel 1 and Follows of Horus, and hopefully a third one as well, Because I was very interested in...
	I mean, you mentioned the word Illuminati earlier on.
	And my son, the other day, when we were chatting, I mentioned something about the Anunnaki.
	And of course, you know, my boys have grown up with this for 20-odd years.
	And he says, oh, BTEC Illuminati.
	I was like, what do you mean by that?
	Well, anybody living in England might understand what he means by BTEC Illuminati.
	So the Anunnaki are potentially...
	If they are what Sitchin explained them to be, and again, it's a very speculative topic, but if they are what he suggested they were, which is effectively people who, you know, figured out how to live forever, basically, or live very, very extended lifetimes through manipulation of DNA and so on, then, you know, Who's to say they're not hanging around?
	Who's to say they're not still the puppet masters pulling the strings within our society?
	Again, it's very speculative, can't be proven, but there's a potential, if that paradigm has some reality to it, that they are still essentially somewhat in control.
	They may have cleared off and left us to it, but they may still be in some control.
	So I wanted to explore that in my fiction writing.
	And it was fantastic.
	I had the opportunity to do so.
	And again, I don't want to spoil the story.
	I've already spoiled it plenty as it is.
	But, you know, part of that fiction incorporates the Anunnaki and incorporates figures from ancient Sumerian Babylonian myth because I wanted to explore that.
	And obviously, if I write the third book, that's going to be based on, you know, their world and their politics and what happens to our world as a result of That's finding out about them and all kinds of stuff.
	So, yes, I think there's the potential for that if the paradigm is true.
	So I can't say that it's true, but I can say that if it were true, then, you know, that puts him in a substantially powerful position and, you know, opens up the gate to all kinds of ideas, really.
	Sure, absolutely.
	And, well, for what it's worth, of course, Project Camelot has multiple information from various above-top secret witnesses all about the Anunnaki.
	And yes, indeed, as Bob Dean says, they're walking the halls of the Pentagon.
	So, and that's from a very well-known interview we've done.
	So let's say...
	And I guess to take the first part of that question, let me say that I think perhaps what they're indicating there is that That the cover-up, it might be controlled, in essence, by the controllers among who might be Anunnaki.
	And then the next question by the same person is why the several observatories were shut down in September 2018.
	And that was quite a mystery.
	You and I went back and forth on email a bit about that.
	I did quite a bit of investigation around it.
	And so on.
	And that gets into a whole Eamon Ansborough, a person who's an astronomer, actually from Ireland, and my interviews with him.
	So if you're interested in that, you should also see those.
	And he's been trying to find, basically, communicate with the, you might say, outer solar system, interstellar, finding beings and consciousness, even AI, out in the outer solar system.
	And to jump, leapfrog, if you want to call it that, over the secret space program to try to do it in a peaceful way and so on and so forth.
	He has had a lot of problems with his efforts.
	So the Sun Observatories appears to have been, at least from my background and contacts, certain things.
	But do you want to address it from your perspective?
	Or did you get into it at all?
	I did read about that story and the explanation that was given for the fact that they shut that down was a very odd story.
	So what do you think they couldn't make it up really?
	But, you know, there may be some underlying reality to that.
	I would argue that to try and find this particular object, if it's where I think it is, which is, you know, 500,000 astronomical units away, you'd need something different to the kind of scope that was shut down.
	So you'd need something either using an infrared or a space-based telescope like Hubble or something.
	Well, Hubble looks for specific areas.
	You need something that does a sky survey.
	So, you know, it's more likely that this object would get picked up by something doing the big sky surveys.
	And now they're using these big arrays and they're using space-based telescopes and stuff like that.
	So that's more likely where they find it from.
	And even citizen science, actually.
	You know, there's sort of quite a big crew of people who are trying to find Planet Nine using sort of digital technology and going through all the books and so on.
	Now, let's say they find it.
	Let's say they find it.
	So anyone who finds this object then has to sit on it for a little while.
	Because if you go too fast to publish, if a member of the astrophysical community decides that they're going to put this out straight away without having gone through peer review or gone through due process, and this happened just before Brown made his thing, It might have even triggered him to do it, actually.
	There was an ALMA observatory down in, I think, Chile, and some guys down there did some work, and they thought they'd found Planet X.
	In fact, they found two Planet Xs.
	But they hadn't done the maths right.
	The chances of them making this discovery were too ridiculously high, and they just hadn't thought it through.
	So they put the paper out real quick because they were so excited they'd found Planet X, and they got absolutely tramped within the community.
	And it was a very, I should imagine, a very dispiriting thing for them.
	So say you were one of the big boys, you found this thing, and you tried to keep it quiet for a while while it goes through peer review.
	Firstly, it's such a big discovery, how on earth is that not going to leak out?
	Your great fear would be that it leaks out, someone else gets it, they get all the credit for it.
	It must be terribly difficult to be worried about that.
	All this stuff's digitised anyway.
	But the government, I mean, frankly, the government can go into whatever the hell they want.
	All the governments in the world can go into whatever they want.
	God knows who can go into whatever they want.
	You know, it's open season out there electronically.
	So if someone finds Planet X and there's even a hint of that, then, you know, various agencies, various foreign governments are going to be all over it.
	And that's the point where, from my perspective, there's a certain naivety within The scientific community, I would imagine.
	Maybe they thought this through and just keep it quiet.
	But, you know, is this really just going to happen?
	Is it really going to happen?
	I guess from the scientist's point of view, they don't have the baggage.
	You know, from their perspective, it's just a planet.
	You know, it's the big deal.
	It's just a planet.
	But when Planet Nine was first discussed, there were so many attributes to it that correlate with sitch and stuff that, again, that's just, for me, that's just way beyond coincidences.
	And admittedly, there were things that didn't, but there was enough stuff that did that makes you think...
	So, what was the question again?
	Okay, well, it's interesting.
	I mean, you're indicating, you started to answer the question at any rate, and you went off in a very interesting direction, so I appreciate that anyway.
	The sun observatories that were shut down around the planet, and it actually...
	If I recall, there were seven of them.
	And the one in particular that was, I think, if I recall, was in New Mexico, was shut down for quite a while.
	I think they might have reopened it, but there was, you know, troops showed up and all this kind of thing.
	I mean, it was quite a, you know, thing.
	And they tried to pan it off as, I think, you know, That they found pornography or something.
	Being traded amongst...
	You know, it was really stupid.
	I just didn't even pay attention because it was such nonsense.
	Now, I have somebody who...
	I have to be a bit careful here.
	I've talked about this before, though.
	I have a contact who has the tech to be able to...
	What you call...
	I don't know, hack might not be the right word, but he was able to look at the situation from the inside of where the scientists were having a dialogue about it, what was going on.
	And I have to open the door for my dog.
	But at any rate...
	And he gave validity to the fact that there was something a lot more substantial going on there that may have had to do maybe more with contact, maybe even contact with an AI or something, something of this nature, information that was being traded.
	I don't know the nature of what they found, but there was something among scientists going on that was quite substantial there.
	And this was what the shutdown was about.
	But at least to my knowledge, it wasn't about Planet X. And you're saying, which is quite interesting to me, that the technology of the observatory itself Isn't able to do the kind of tracking in the sky that would be necessary to discover such a thing.
	Now, just out of curiosity, is it possible, let's just throw everything out and say that the telescope at the, you know, down in Antarctica that was established, that it did pick up Planet X and that this somehow became known to some of the Sun Observatory.
	And that also it's a lot closer than we think.
	I mean, this is just a hypothetical idea.
	Now, again, this would have to do with the ability to go interdimensional.
	But first of all, you'd have to accept...
	See, this Planet X thing is very complex because there has been so much stuff go into it over the years.
	And you may know about the Wingmakers material.
	I don't know if you know, but wingmakers.com is a very famous cult website that had a book called The Ancient Arrow Project.
	I represented the movie rights for a while.
	To Hollywood, trying to get the movie made, but then, you know, reached a lot of roadblocks, although Spielberg was interested in it initially, so that's a pretty high level.
	So, but the story had to do with, you know, a race of beings that came to Earth and established these certain installations, if you want to call it that, for lack of a better word, and There was a component that had to do with CERN and it had to do with A race of beings that were on their way here, a race of robots, in fact, that were going to discover Earth in a certain year.
	And back in those days, I think the year was 2011, and that CERN was working very hard to devise a technology that would allow the Earth to go temporarily interdimensional so that when they drove by our solar system and took a look, Looking for Earth-like planets, they wouldn't find Earth and therefore we wouldn't be invaded by this race of robots.
	I know it sounds very sci-fi, but this was supposedly based on truth, okay?
	Now it's, you know, this is a long time ago and I was quite involved in that group and talking to the person who actually brought the information forward, who said he was from Lyra and so on.
	Now It's interesting to contemplate.
	So if there was such a thing, and if it did go interdimensional, in other words, if we were trying to go interdimensional, cloak our planet in such a way, and then it's possible...
	See, again, you have to link all these things together, and this is the kind of thing you might do in fiction, but...
	You could say that if the Anunnaki are here, if they come from the planet Toy, that again, along my lines, would be driven, in essence, could even change direction, could cloak itself, could go interdimensional.
	At will and so on.
	There are a lot of people saying we have a second sun.
	They're taking pictures.
	I know a lot of them get debunked as Venus or sun dogs and all these.
	But I've got people, you know, people are really rabid when it comes to the photographs they take, indicating there is a second something.
	And there's a lot of secrecy around the, you know, Southern telescope in Antarctica and so on.
	So, I know this is long-winded.
	It's just that when you get into this subject, there are so many aspects.
	So I'm just saying, if the Anunnaki are here, and they're trying to keep people's attention away from the return of this particular planet, You know, I guess this is the question.
	You know, what would they do?
	What would be their efforts?
	And also, it's interesting to me, you don't talk about a periodic return.
	Wasn't the periodic return around 12,000 years?
	Or do I have that wrong?
	So, the concept of Nibiru is slightly complicated by the fact that The word Nibera itself means a ferry.
	Now, if you use the word ferry, the Sumerian word ferry, then it gives the impression that you're ferrying between one place and another.
	So the ferry itself isn't the destination.
	It's a means of getting to the destination.
	So a lot of people have speculated, and I'm kind of one of them really, that you might have this dark star object, you might have this second sun, this object that's out in the outer solar system that is effectively its own little solar system, but a very dark one, and as I've described, potentially wrapped up in a sort of a nebula, which makes it very difficult for us to be able to spot.
	So this particular solar system then, If you're going to travel between it and us, and again, it's in our backyard, literally, but if you're going to travel between it and us, then there are a number of ways of doing it.
	And some of the things, Kerry, that you've described are options to describe Nibiru.
	So Nibiru, for instance, could be a spaceship.
	It could be just a colossal spaceship.
	Now, many moons ago, Carl Sagan, that very celebrated astronomer who was actually...
	Quite into ancient astronaut theories in his early days, strangely.
	He threw the idea out that if you were going to go to another solar system, another star system, you could do worse than to put a colony into a comet, an interstellar comet, and just let the comet take you there.
	Now recently, within a couple of years ago, we had a visitor from interstellar space called Uumuamua, which was a messenger, a Hawaiian messenger name.
	And it kind of had a hyperbolic orbit to the solar system, whipped out, but it was very controversial.
	It was exciting because it was the first interstellar object that had ever been found, but it was controversial because it didn't have the proper cometary properties.
	It would seem to be more like an asteroid.
	And yet, when it moved away from the sun, it seemed to be moving away with a degree of propulsion.
	So you couldn't see a tail coming out of it, which might have propelled it along, but it seemed to be somewhat accelerating in one direction.
	Yes, I remember that.
	Yeah, so then there was a lot of speculation that perhaps that was a spaceship, you know?
	that it was then, I think Arthur C. Clarke wrote a book, "The Problem with Rama" or something many years ago, and he described this great big spaceship type thing in very similar terms, and it seemed almost prophetic for Uumuamua.
	So what you're describing about intergalactic or intragalactic spacecraft moving between solar systems, that's what you do.
	You put a colony inside a comet, which has got all the metal resources, all the water that you need.
	And it just moves between the solar systems and it was, you know, the kind of ua mua mua type thing that comes through.
	You know, who's to say that that's not a spaceship that's, you know, What's the word?
	Scouting?
	Well, yes.
	And also, let's also say that the moon is said to be hollow and ring like a bell and that it possibly was put in place, the understanding that we have.
	And I think John Lear agrees with this.
	It was towed into place is how he put it.
	So, you know, in other words, planetoids are a great place to a way to not only move between solar system, as you call it, but also, Hide, because the outside, you wouldn't know what it contained, and it looks like an organic thing, right?
	That's no moon, as they'd say in Star Wars.
	Okay.
	Well, I'm wearing a Chewbacca t-shirt.
	Oh, all right.
	That's what I thought that was.
	I was trying to determine.
	Okay.
	So, yeah.
	So, I mean, it's very interesting.
	By the way, about Sagan.
	Now, he actually became a kind of a debunker.
	As time went on.
	But I believe what happened is he actually joined the, you know, the secret space program and then was read in, which has happened also to Arthur C. Clarke.
	In fact, there's a history of this.
	And, you know, in a certain sense, you could be one of them in another time, you know, not now, but let's, you know, just in another time.
	What they have been known to do is to buy off authors and to actually get them read in on a lot more than what is out in the general public.
	And then allow them to write their sci-fi novels as those jumping off points.
	And it is said that Philip K. Dick, for example, was one of those people.
	And once you sign one of those diabolical non-disclosure agreements, or you're alive.
	The Official Secrets Act.
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	And it's very true that Stanley Kubrick was among these, obviously, and that's a fascinating discussion in and of itself.
	And they have a current exhibition of his work in London, which I went to, which is great.
	Quite fascinating.
	Also fascinating for the fact that they avoided everything that what his movies meant as opposed to just what was shown in them.
	So they were very material and very literal, but they never got into the fact that he was actually pointing the finger at the Illuminati and the Dark Magicians all through his work.
	So that's...
	I digress.
	So anyway, to come back to the subject.
	So...
	Okay, so you're taking on board the possibility of a planetoid being driven, being propelled, however you want to look at it, and you're saying this amumu, however they say it, was possibly one of those.
	And I agree, I think, you know, and I thought at the time that that absolutely seemed to be the case.
	Now...
	But again, with the 12,000 year return, you don't seem to...
	I thought there were ice samples, you know, showing this kind of thing.
	So you don't buy into the 12,000.
	Do you buy into any rate of return with regard to this?
	Well, I think that if this object is a very substantial planet, I think that it basically lives beyond the Kuiper Belt.
	It does not come back into our solar system.
	But that is not to say that it doesn't have, in the same way that it affects these Kuiper Belt objects and it clusters them and it causes, it has an effect on other bodies in the solar system, there is quite a good strong possibility that it has that same effect on comets and other types of objects within the solar system.
	So this is what I'm saying about Nibiru.
	So Nibiru It's some kind of ferry.
	Now, it might well be that it might be a comet that's got, say, a 3,600-year orbit that stretches out towards this dark star solar system and effectively acts as a jumping-on point for a spacecraft or whatever, shuttling between the two systems.
	And in that respect, then, you would have a return because you would have a periodic return.
	It's like, I don't know, a...
	Well, a very long period flight coming in, which is just a shuttling that was going forward.
	And you can imagine...
	Right, and that would shuttle beings, and in essence, a ferry, which is very apt, if that were actually the case, right?
	You ferry people from one shore to another, so to speak.
	Yes, exactly right.
	So it's a boat, it's a craft, and this is what is all over, by the way, of course, the temples of Egypt, you know, constantly...
	A boat-like craft surrounded by stars, giving the idea of a ship.
	So this ship, the theme that we're developing between this here, Carrie, is that this ship could effectively be a planetor.
	Sure.
	Right.
	So it's kind of acting as a shuttle between.
	It doesn't exactly go from one point to the other point, because I think physically that probably wouldn't work.
	But as a planetoid, another planet X object effectively.
	And when we've seen sort of spreads that were written by the guys back in the 80s and before that, astronomers, they were considering this kind of solution.
	They were considering a planet X object that's like a comet that goes through our solar system that's, you know, a moon-sized or maybe a small terrestrial body like Mars.
	And then...
	Which could be Nibiru, the red sort of planet that's moving between them, and then something out 50 billion miles away, something extraordinarily remote, which acts as a homeworld, a survivable location for this group of beings who visited us God knows how long ago.
	Yeah, okay, very interesting.
	Well, I mean, thank you for going down that road with us.
	We could keep you here all day, I'm sure.
	So I hope you've got to get some kick.
	I appreciate that.
	So, you know, and I know it's much later where you are.
	So I'm just really quickly scanning to say if there's anything, any, you know, burning questions here that want to be answered.
	And I'm not sure that I see anything.
	So at any rate, we've been going.
	I try to keep these shows around an hour and a half simply because people don't take, you know, their attention span is limited.
	And there's so much out there at this point.
	It'd be great to have you back.
	I highly want to encourage you to finish book three.
	And I hope we're setting up an audience that's going to be receptive to that.
	And do you want to say where people can get your books, all of your books, and how?
	And keep in mind that we have an international audience, so maybe different ways they can come across them.
	Well, it's the book Darkest Stars, which is the new book, is out through Amazon.
	Look for Andy Lloyd, Darkest Stars.
	I'm on Twitter.
	I'm on Facebook.
	Timeless Voyager Press is the publisher.
	Amazon's probably your best bet, I would say.
	It's now available on Kindle.
	The Kindle copy is going to have some absolutely magnificent images.
	I really did my homework on the images.
	There's about 100 full-colour images in the Kindle book.
	It makes it a very special piece of work.
	Awesome.
	So, yeah.
	Okay, very good.
	And go ahead, give your website, don't you, and you're in that blog you were talking about, if you still have that blog available where you had a conversation going about this.
	Yes, so darkstar1.co.uk is my sort of regular routine website.
	It's now pretty much a 20-year-old website.
	But look for my, if you Google Andy Lloyd Dark Star Blog, The Dark Star blog is on andyloy.org and it's loads of stuff on there.
	So I'm pretty easy to find with a Google search, I'll be honest with you.
	And I've got all of my pages that have got links to the book.
	So once you're into anything that I've written, you should be able to find the book easily enough.
	Wonderful.
	Okay.
	So, well, it's been fascinating talking to you.
	And I think you've simulated a lot of our chat.
	It indicates that, you know, that's just a sort of a small portion of who is listening and then, of course, and watching.
	We'll be putting this.
	This will stay on the same link, and it will be available right after we close this down as well for people to watch.
	So thank you so much for coming on the show, and it's great to catch up with you, and good luck in your endeavors, and keep me posted about this third part of the trilogy, okay?
	Thank you, Kerry.
	It's been a wonderful experience to speak with you.
	Once again, always a pleasure for me.
	All right.
	All right.
	You take care.
	Okay, bye-bye.
	So, I'm going to close that down and figure out how to do this.
	So, anyway, just want to say thank you for listening and watching.
	Today is Friday, so have a great weekend.
	And I'll be back next week with some fascinating shows.
	I want to say that the Colin Wolford alien autopsy...
	I got the date wrong, actually.
	We had to...
	Move it to next week.
	So it's actually...
	Oh, this...
	Okay, sorry about this.
	My phone is hooked up to my computer.
	So anyway, I want to say that the Colin Wolford show will be next week.
	I think it's Wednesday, the 22nd of May.
	And I have some other shows coming up as well.
	I think Tuesday we're going to be talking to Deborah Tavares, who is a wonderful researcher.
	She's been in England, and she was speaking at a conference there.
	And we did an interview with the person who's running that conference, whose name is Ian Crane.
	Very interesting interview.
	So if you go to recent interviews, you can see what he had to say.
	Very well-researched guy as well.
	So thanks for watching again, and we'll be back.
	Take care.

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