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April 10, 2019 - Project Camelot

55:41

ROBERT KIVIAT: TV PRODUCER SUES CIA TO DISCLOSE UFO SECRECY

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	Okay, can you hear me now, Carrie?
	Yeah, I can hear you fine.
	Okay, so I'm just going to repeat.
	I guess you asked me what my lawsuit's really about and why the news media is picking it up, right?
	Pretty much?
	That's correct, yes.
	So the lawsuit has a lot to do with my work in TV over the last 25 years.
	I had come across Ron Pandolfi years ago and knew him through Bruce McAbee, a top Navy optical physicist.
	I knew Ron had been involved in looking into UFOs and mysteries that were associated with it.
	And pretty much I picked up in 2016 That there was interest in developing anti-gravity technology.
	Many companies were looking into it.
	I was looking into it.
	I had been aware of this from interviewing people like Admiral Bobby Ray Inman, who was interviewed for my program on Fox.
	UFO is the best evidence ever caught on tape.
	And Admiral Inman, former head of the NSA, he was very interested in anti-gravity research.
	So when I picked up that other companies were getting into it back in 2016, I looked into one company.
	That led me to Joe Fermich.
	Joe Furmidge was this guy from the 1990s who had made a lot of money in the dot-com business.
	He was involved in UFO research.
	The government was interested in him as well because he was putting money into UFO research.
	I believe that's when Ron Pandolfi got associated with him way back in the 90s.
	But there it was basically in 2017.
	When To The Stars Academy was starting to get their movement going into the social lexicon or cultural lexicon with their announcements, what they were doing, apparently Ron Pandolfi was trying to get Joe Firmage back in the game and get him back into the gravity control research he was doing.
	And so I monitored this for a while and it became clear that Firmage was backed by Ron Pandolfi.
	And Ron had indicated apparently to Joe that if he developed this technology Maybe he could bring it to industry, government, whatever.
	And so Joe got very, very motivated.
	And so I asked Joe, well, what would you like me to help you with?
	If I joined your company, what would you like me to do?
	He said, well, I'd like you to build a media plan that would be the announcement of this gravity control device.
	There'd be news stories, maybe a TV series, basically explaining what this gravity control device could do for society, how it would change the world and all of that.
	And then he asked me a question.
	He said, do you know about To The Stars Academy?
	And I said, sure I do.
	What do you want to know about it?
	He said, well, what do you think?
	Do you think they're making any technology?
	And I said, well, and this was a few months before the New York Times article came out about the UFO research that they were doing with AATIP and the $22 million study Harry Reid was putting together and all that.
	So basically, and the tic-tac craft, of course, the UFOs.
	I basically was hearing about this two months before from firmage.
	Saying to me that they were trying to more or less compete with To The Stars Academy.
	Joe's company is called InterNASA, the International Academy of Science and Arts.
	Tom DeLonge's company is called To The Stars Academy.
	So there was kind of this academy connection going on.
	And then I realized that Hal Puthoff I was involved in both Joe's early company, a forerunner to this inter-NASA, called Motion Sciences, and that Hal Puthoff was now involved in To The Stars Academy.
	So there was this whole, like, connection between Hal Puthoff, Joe Firmage, Tom DeLonge, you know, Ron Pandolfi.
	I knew the connections were very, very much, you know, kind of like loose, but they were connected.
	So I was very interested, and then Joe said to me, well, if you come in and maybe work with me, I'd like you to run this studio.
	And I said, well, look, Joe, if you want to make it serious, if you want me to come and do this, tell me what you'd like me to do.
	We'll speak to my attorney and we'll see if we can create some sort of a contract and I'll work for you.
	And I said, Joe, do you have the funding?
	And he said, sure, I have a few million dollars invested already.
	I expect another million dollars by a certain date.
	That date came along around December 16th or so of 2017.
	Just about the time the New York Times article came out about to the Stars Academy and the Tic Tac UFOs and all of that.
	So it was all coming together at the right time.
	And I said to my lawyer, well, what do you think about the contract they're offering?
	And my lawyer said, well, as long as I have the funding, I'll locate you to sign the contract.
	So Joe had literally said he had the money in.
	He had indicated the money came from this congressman, Daniel Marriott, former congressman of Utah.
	But he didn't say it officially.
	He said it seems like that money is coming in.
	And I said, well, Joe, look, when it comes in, I'll be able to sign the contract.
	Well, he then confirmed the money had come in.
	He did that by telling us we could remove a line from the earlier version of the contract where it said that there's a line saying when the money comes in by a certain date.
	Once Joe had said the money was in already, my lawyer said, well, let's remove that line.
	There's no need for that line to be in there, this kind of date of expected financing.
	Joe said the money's in.
	We took out the line and therefore there was a real binding contract.
	So I signed the contracts that are working with Joe on the 1st of 2018, January.
	My first job was to get all the news media and as many people we could find in the investment community to be aware that Joe had the backing of the intelligence community.
	And so Joe authorized me to put out these LinkedIn press releases on LinkedIn that literally gave the information about who in the intelligence community or the intelligence community was behind Joe's device.
	There was going to be maybe movement into the military industrial complex with this machine.
	And of course, we were going to do an entertainment side of this as well, where we're going to bring the news media into this.
	We're going to bring TV networks into this.
	One of my jobs is to go out and more or less compete with To The Stars Academy and say to the networks, we've got a real show.
	We've got a series that's going to look into all of this disclosure, anti-gravity propulsion technology being developed by certain people, how this may all lead to space travel.
	But not do it like, you know, Two Stars Academy is doing it, where they're claiming they have all the information.
	They're going to the networks and saying they're going to do a show pretty much about themselves.
	That's what they pretty much sold the History Channel, a show about themselves.
	They're going to produce it about themselves.
	Very non-objective.
	And so our goal, my goal as a TV guy was to bring Joe's company, whatever Pendolfi was bringing to the table, I was being told that Pendolfi might even operate in the background of the TV series we would develop, where Pendolfi would be like giving us the okay to say this TV series is done with the backing or the consultation of the Central Intelligence Agency.
	And that's a really great hook for a TV series to have.
	Well, Ron would never confirm it directly through his operative Kevin Alba.
	I tried to get Kevin to tell us, you know, be sure, will Ron be involved in this series?
	But the really bad news was, even though Kevin couldn't confirm it 100%, and I was very leery about the whole thing, And the executives that I was talking to both in New York and Los Angeles about this TV series, about InterNASA, about the entire anti-gravity device issue, and also about the disclosure period we're looking at right now with this announcement of the $22 million study, the Tic Tac UFO craft over the water in San Diego area.
	How that relates to another sighting apparently in 2015, also with a naval nuclear aircraft carrier group off the coast of Florida.
	All of that was going to be a great TV series.
	The bad news was there was no money coming into the company called Internasa.
	They didn't seem to have their funding.
	The individual that promised the money, this was a Daniel Marriott, he was not giving the money as planned, therefore there was no money to pay me.
	And I went many, many months working 15 hour days on the phone with both investors, with media people, with Joe, with Kevin, Ron's operative living at Joe's house.
	Ron Pindolfi had his operative and still has his operative living at Joe's house for all these months.
	Now going on 15, 16 months already.
	It's funny because I had to fly this guy, Kevin, in because there was no money to pay this guy.
	Apparently, nobody in Ron's world, nobody in InterNASA, Joe's world, could afford to pay for this guy, Kevin, to fly to Salt Lake City from the East Coast.
	So I eventually picked him up on his travels across the country.
	I literally flew him in on my credit card just because I wanted to help this guy out.
	But I've got to be honest with you.
	It looks like this whole thing was a ruse.
	To kind of manipulate people, to manipulate me.
	There appears to be this kind of propensity from this intelligence operative Nehran Pandolfi to do this to people, to play with people, to manipulate the UFO community.
	Unfortunately, he also manipulated me.
	Badly to the point where I worked for free for almost a year, and now it needs to be dealt with.
	So I've issued a lawsuit for my back arrears, my salary, but also as the media is picking up on it now, I'm going to use this lawsuit to get into the real secrecy of what the UFO issue is with the CIA, what do they know, what does Ron Pendolfi know, and probably bring in a lot of the people from the other side of the story to the Stars Academy.
	How put off.
	The reason why is the device that Joe is making right now has been previously developed with the former head of skin.
	The former person Joe was doing this device with years ago is now the owner of Skinwalker Ranch.
	How did the owner of Skinwalker Ranch Get ownership of that property.
	How did he utilize his contacts he made with firmage years ago with Hal Puthoff, basically?
	So there's a real interesting nexus between Skinwalker Ranch, To The Stars Academy, Bob Bigelow, Internasha, and my loss is going to bring it all together, Kerry.
	I think people are going to find this to be very fascinating.
	Okay.
	Now, before we continue, you do have a weird light that's coming in straight across your face.
	Oh, no!
	I guess, yeah, and it's kind of difficult.
	You've got sort of sunlight.
	I don't know where that's coming from.
	Yeah, it's just kind of coming overhead, but it's okay.
	If you just move a little to the right, I think you're going to be all right.
	I think I was up with the lighting here.
	Bear with me one second.
	Yeah, but that's okay.
	So what I want to do is kind of, you know, get...
	I see the light.
	I don't know what to do with it.
	It's a weird thing.
	Give me one second.
	I'll try to figure it out.
	But continue.
	I'll try to figure it out.
	Yeah, I mean, can you, you know, do that and talk at the same time?
	Because the question is that people are going to...
	I'm assuming that people are going to have an understanding of what's going on here and...
	Jesus.
	I don't know.
	I've never had this light problem before, Karen.
	It's very strange.
	I don't know what's going on.
	I've never had it before.
	I blame the CIA for this.
	Okay.
	I think that's a good catch-all right there.
	Is it a little bit better?
	Yeah.
	No, you're fine now.
	You're out of it.
	It's to your left or our right or whatever it is.
	You're good right there.
	So just stay right there and you'll be fine.
	Sorry about that.
	I didn't want to interrupt your wonderful...
	No, it's okay.
	I got it.
	Yeah, your summation there was excellent.
	So that people can understand how this thing germinated from one thing to another.
	And actually, my understanding is that Ron Pandolfi, the common thread here is Ron Pandolfi.
	So the CIA and Ron...
	He basically was very involved in the To The Stars situation, and then he supposedly backed out of that in order to do this other thing with firmage, and we don't know where that's at at this moment.
	Now, InterNASA is the name of the corporation you were part of.
	Is that correct?
	Yeah, I wouldn't call it a corporation.
	I would call it a probably doing business as, I don't even believe, they probably have an LLC, bank account or something like that.
	I don't even, I don't even call it a corporation.
	All right.
	Well, an LLC is pretty close.
	Okay, good enough.
	So at this point, who are your, you know, in your lawsuit, can you exactly tell us like, you know, how the legalities go?
	Are you actually suing Ron directly?
	And is he named?
	Is the CIA named?
	Who's named in the lawsuit?
	The Sun, the newspaper out of the UK, they definitely did a good job covering it, but I think there's two minor corrections I want to make.
	There was this kind of like loosely kind of phrased situation.
	I'm not suing the CIA. I'm suing Joe Furmich, Internasa, Ron Pandolfi, and the main investor in Internasa, Former Congressman Daniel Marriott.
	Were you saying that Marriott is owning Skinwalker Ranch, or is that another person?
	No, no.
	That's very, very important.
	I threw a lot of information out there trying to deal with this video issue as well.
	Ron Pandolfi backed the company in his name, the backing of the CIA, whatever connections he's got with that.
	Daniel Marriott put the money up to develop the technology, the machine itself.
	There appears to be this The need for Daniel Marriott to be the sole investor.
	So he basically conflated his own investment by saying, hey, you know what?
	I'm not going to put the money in if other investors come in.
	So he sort of blocked out other investors from getting involved.
	That's his involvement.
	He sort of controlled the financial aspects and didn't pay me.
	So there's another problem there.
	But what I was referring to regarding Skinwalker Ranch is early in Joe's development back in 2009, 2010, There was another company, and that company was the early version of InterNASA in every way.
	And that company was backed by the guy who now owns Skinwalker Ranch.
	Before you continue, can we name that company or not?
	The company's called Motion Sciences.
	I mean, it's pretty much out there.
	Hal Puthoff emailed me yesterday trying to make some, you know, clarification that, no, Joe didn't pay him when he was consulting with this Motion Sciences.
	Well, it wasn't Joe.
	It was Joe's partner.
	I mean, it's really kind of, you know, splitting hairs here.
	You know what I mean?
	Okay, who's Joe's partner in this endeavor?
	Joe Furmich's partner in this endeavor then?
	Do we know that person?
	Yes, we do.
	And I think what's going to start to happen now is this individual is going to claim that if I were to name him, it's going to damage him, it's going to damage his family.
	Look, there's no doubt in due time People will know who he is, and they will know his connections to both Joe's early company, the gravity control device he created, the people that he met through Joe's association with all these, like, government guys, like general, you know, there's people involved in Joe's life that were very involved in the government.
	Ron Pandolfi, Hal Puthoff, General Wesley Clark, one of the top NATO commanders.
	These people are the people that this individual must have met.
	It's just a natural association.
	He met people by dealing with Joe and this device back in 2009-2010.
	Lo and behold, in 2016, he buys Skinwalker Ranch from Bob Bigelow.
	Well, how'd that happen?
	So these are the kind of issues we're going to get into.
	Well, yeah.
	Okay, that's very interesting now.
	Without naming that individual, is it possible to say whether that particular individual is also affiliated in some way with Bigelow?
	Yes, there's no doubt.
	He must have made a pact with Bigelow to buy the ranch.
	He gave me a lot of details about his interaction with Bob Bigelow.
	Okay, just trying to get a little of this guy's background.
	So is this guy a scientist?
	Is that his interest?
	No, he's a businessman with a very, very strong penchant for the unexplained and believes that there's going to be some kind of big breakthrough by studying Skinwalker Ranch, which to my as I told George Gnapp recently at a conference I was at at UFO Megacon, I told him publicly.
	I got up and spoke right while he was speaking and spoke to him in front of people.
	I said, really, we need to look into this objectively.
	This entire Skinwalker Ranch story from day one, going back 20 years, is filled with all kinds of holes, all kinds of problems.
	So, you know, that's my job as a journalist to always try to get to the bottom of these things.
	And I think Skinwalker Ranch is really a three-pronged mystery.
	We've got To The Stars Academy, we've got Skinwalker Ranch, and we've got Joe's Company.
	And what is going on with all these people?
	Because, by the way, they all know each other.
	They've all interacted with each other.
	It's one small group.
	Oh, yeah.
	These people have been...
	Well, it's basically the aviary for all intents and purposes.
	Behind the scenes, you know the aviary, right?
	Well, I don't think the aviary is a very clear thing.
	I think the people who really have been studying this, like you know for many years, Carrie, I'm sure, the aviary started with a guy named Bill Moore and Jamie Shondera.
	These people created the aviary.
	They gave the bird names.
	They gave the bird names for reasons to cover people's identity a little bit.
	But look, I mean, we know that, look, Kit Green, we know Ron Pandolfi, we know Hal Pudoff.
	These guys are birds, okay?
	They're all bird names, okay?
	And there are some other bird names.
	Given by Bill Moore and Jamie Chandra.
	All right, fair enough, fair enough.
	But this is just for the audience, you know, because some of the audience know...
	Of the aviary, they will know the ties here.
	And Melinda Leslie, for example, has been giving lectures sort of diagramming the connections between these groups.
	I've lived through this.
	So let's be really clear.
	Bill Moore, in the late 80s, came up with this idea.
	That to cover people's identity when you start talking about UFO and UFO research, people will give bird names.
	That people like Rompendalpia trying to usurp the aviary history and make like he's in control of the aviary is nonsensical.
	We know exactly how the aviary came together.
	We know the people that were involved in it.
	And it was never a group of people really meeting.
	They were all people that loosely knew, oh yeah, I got a bird name.
	You got a bird name.
	Yeah, yeah, we got bird names or whatever given to us by these other people, but they never really met like a group.
	There's no real like, you know, association.
	Well, I mean, that may be open to discussion.
	You can't say whether, I mean, you obviously are not party to everything these individuals do in their life.
	And whether they meet, I can tell you that Pudoff and Pandolfi and Kit Green and so on, they all do meet in person and they do meet.
	And they lie about it too, so I'm not sure what to believe anymore.
	All right, that's fair enough.
	Okay, so to get back to the main topic here.
	So your lawsuit involves very specifically this company, InterNASA.
	And Pandolfi is named.
	The CIA is kind of...
	Is it named as the CIA? Because I wonder...
	It's Ron Pandolfi known to be a CIA scientist, either formerly or presently.
	It doesn't make a difference.
	as an individual, he's using the auspices that he has around him, the CIA connections, to build up this company called InterNASA and then very much so bring someone like me into this whole issue in this company because I believe there was credibility to build up this company called InterNASA and then very much But now Ron is claiming he had nothing to do with it, even though he was on the phone with these people quite frequently during the operation itself.
	Okay, Ron Gandolfi at this point is claiming that he has nothing to do with what, Six.
	He's claiming that he never was involved.
	He only cared about Joe as a person, cared about him as a friend.
	It's nonsensical.
	So he's not in a business?
	Okay, but he's not named in a contract with InterNASA.
	Is that what you're saying?
	No, I don't believe he has a contract with InterNASA.
	I think he operated as an ad hoc member of the company operating from Virginia or operating from the East Coast, but sent in his operative.
	Okay, and his operative is this Kevin Alver, is that correct?
	Yep.
	Okay.
	All right, so at this point, I assume you have a legal team behind you, one lawyer, several.
	I have one main lawyer prosecuting the case for my contract arrears, my salary arrears.
	I have consultants working with me on the actual issue about the government's involvement, whether or not we're going to be raising this issue with the CIA or not, I'm not quite sure yet.
	I'm trying to be as fair as I can to Ron because I do respect his work.
	I don't know.
	last couple of months and weeks after hearing about the lawsuit.
	I will never trash some of Ron's work.
	He's worked pretty hard in the government.
	He's done some interesting things for this country.
	I think his history is pretty self-evident.
	You can read about it.
	But on the other end, he really screwed around with this operation.
	And this operation left me and my family damaged by the amount of time I put in, work I put in, meetings I went to, travel expenses I went into my own pocket for, to go to New York, sit down with one of the biggest broadcast networks in the world, get one of the top people interested sit down with one of the biggest broadcast networks in the world, get one of the top people interested in making a TV series, also on the West Coast, the counterpart in that
	See, one person was in the news division, the other person was in the entertainment division.
	So I'm trying to say that I made every effort to bring this company a platform into NASA, to bring their story to television.
	And that was a big part of my job.
	What's the status of the project at this time with that particular network?
	It's sitting on hold until we can figure out what the story really is.
	And by the way, the story about To The Stars Academy, the story about the $22 million given to Bigelow apparently to study Skinwalker Ranch, The weirdness of InterNASA and how they were able to kind of use CIA connections and all that stuff to build up this guy, Joe Firmage, all of it smells really rotten.
	I mean, a lot of it looks to me like a limited hangout.
	We've heard about it for years where the government will kind of show a little UFO evidence to the public, pull it back.
	This is a real, I think, a real steroid version of that right now, Kerry.
	It's at another level.
	Okay, so have you had any dealings with Two of the Stars since they're mentioned here, but they're not really involved really officially in any way?
	They were involved with me because what happened was when I was doing this work for Firmage and Pendolfi, I reached out to Hal Puthoff and I said, look, You know, we're doing this work.
	You're aware of it.
	I'm doing my own TV work with these people.
	What's going on with these three videos?
	And how was, you know, the videos they released to the Shards Academy?
	They were not released by the DOD, Department of Defense, no matter what they claim, but no matter what Lou Elizondo claims, they were not.
	The DOD does not claim these videos came from them.
	How do you know this?
	Because that's a pretty strong accusation.
	So how do you know that the DOD did not authorize the release of those videos?
	It's in the public record.
	One of the top reporters in the East Coast.
	I won't name him today, but I will if you want in the future.
	He just contacted the DOD. Did you release this?
	No, we did not.
	Simple.
	It doesn't require a lot of...
	The New York Times and Leslie Keen and all those people, they're claiming they've got George Knapp, they've seen the documents.
	Look, if you've got documents that say the DOD released these videos and they came from certain events, great!
	But the way it's released right now is such a hodgepodge of lack of information.
	And even Hal Puthoff is trying to say to me, the New York Times did a great job, you know, researching all this material and doing all the work they did.
	Well, you know what?
	Not really.
	So the point really comes right down to what is going on with Two Stars Academy.
	Is Two Stars Academy an operation of some kind to kind of give the public information but not anywhere near the full information and kind of leave it hanging?
	Sure looks like it.
	Alright, well, I don't know.
	You know, John Lear, for example, has taken a look at the footage and said that it was cobbled together.
	Other people have analyzed the footage, if you know what I mean.
	It was pretty cobbled.
	Most people with any kind of a...
	I think the one called the Nimitz video, the earlier video, That seems to be a real event.
	I interviewed someone named Jason Turner recently at the UFO conference I went to and also for my own work.
	Jason Turner is going to come out in the next couple of months, I'm sure, very, very publicly and talk about.
	That was a seven-minute video we saw on the Princeton, one of the sports ships for the Nimitz event.
	But that video is very different than the gimbal video.
	And this other thing called the GoFast video, we don't know what those are.
	We're not quite sure what to make of it.
	And the one you're referring to, I think, that people are saying is cobbled together, looks like the gimbal video.
	The gimbal video, the fact that you even call it the gimbal, is so suspicious because that's the name of the device that the camera swivels on.
	Why would they call it the gimbal video?
	But the whole thing is such a nightmare.
	Years ago, when I was making shows for Fox, if I would have walked in with my video package of the show I want to make, and I show these videos, Fox would say, Bob, where did they come from?
	Well, I don't know.
	Good, you're not using them.
	So the point is, it's hard to use videos.
	You don't know where they came from exactly.
	All right.
	All right.
	Okay.
	Well, that's a whole mystery in and of itself and worth pursuing.
	But again, I want to bring this back to your lawsuit.
	So in terms of your lawsuit, you have, you know, I don't know, you're actually speaking publicly.
	You know, sometimes when people are in lawsuits, they're actually told they can't speak publicly.
	So as your lawyer said that the more media you have on this, the better?
	Yes, I think the idea is we want the court of public opinion to kind of weigh in on this stuff early.
	We want people who are involved in the lawsuit to realize it's serious.
	We're not backing off.
	We're not going away.
	This isn't a publicity stunt to sell a TV series for me or something like that.
	This is a real, serious allegation.
	When you employ people with a contract and you promise to pay them the money that's in the contract and you don't pay them, you're stealing their services.
	It's like stealing.
	And so what they did was...
	So there's a monetary...
	This is a funny thing.
	He actually made jokes about it.
	I don't think it's pretty funny.
	Okay, so it's a monetary thing.
	But then to get over to the secrecy issue and the fact of the whole UFO secrecy, how are you wrapping that in?
	Do you think just by default and, you know, that it gets exposed?
	No, it's a fabulous question, Carrie, and I'm glad you're asking it the way you did because the reporters from The Sun did it the best they could.
	They did.
	But I think the issue is simple.
	When you get into a court case like this and you're trying to figure out why you weren't paid, who made the promises to begin with, Where was the motivation to steal my services?
	You're looking into everything.
	You're not just looking into one thing.
	You're looking into everything.
	You want the jury.
	This will be a jury trial.
	We want the jury to understand the modus separandi.
	What occurred here?
	What was the timing of this event hiring me?
	What were they trying to achieve?
	Why did Joe Firmish want to compete so much with To The Stars Academy?
	I felt it very, very strange in the early, early phone calls.
	Joe asked me two main questions.
	Bob or Robert, what do you know about To The Stars Academy?
	Are they making any real technology?
	And that was like November of 2017, before the New York Times' Oracle eBay came out.
	He was asking me about what technology they'll be making, and he didn't even know anything about the videos they were releasing.
	I said, I don't know much about them other than what we know.
	There doesn't seem to be any real technology being announced or being developed at all.
	So we assume it's an entertainment company, the way it looks.
	They're going to come out, make TV shows, try to use this Lou Elizondo guy as a DOD guy, all secretive and everything.
	Sounds nice for television, but it doesn't sound like it's going to be a technology company.
	And then, right after that, of course, when they came out, Joe was asking me, what do I know about Ron Pindolfi?
	And I said, well, what do you mean?
	I know who he is.
	I know what he's about.
	He goes, well, don't call Ron.
	I said, why would I call Ron?
	He said, well, just don't call him.
	I said, okay, I won't call him.
	Within a matter of weeks, it became very clear that Ron was the one who was giving Joe the idea that he could say to the investment community and to the media and to me and anybody that Ron Pandolfi and the CIA were behind this technology.
	And that was always the operating kind of modus operandi.
	Okay, what I want to know, though, at this point, and I think the listeners are going to want to know as well, is what technology are we talking about?
	Because this is kind of fascinating, and I'm going to be a little full disclosure here.
	I have some background on this story, okay?
	I have a contact, and I think he's a mutual contact.
	You know who he is.
	I'm not going to name him here, just not to get him involved by name here at the moment.
	But basically, he has told me You know, he has reason to know that Pandolfi has been working with Firmage.
	Pandolfi works with all these people, Bigelow, you name it, Rudolph, all these people, right?
	Because that's kind of what a CIA agent does.
	But at the same time, it does appear, this is just my take, and you can weigh in on it, that what they did is they created two competing companies, if you will, to the Stars Academy on the one hand, and Joe Firmage's And then they also went after some major financing.
	Both parties did, okay?
	In different ways, but you got it right.
	Yes.
	And then at the same time, and there's something with a UA, the funder of one of these entities, there's an oversight, a larger corporation called Starts Initials or something like UAM or something like this.
	I don't know what the...
	I don't know.
	Maybe you don't know what I'm talking about.
	I'll find it.
	I have notes on it.
	I don't think that's necessarily connected the way you said it.
	Okay.
	Well, from what I understand, there are financiers somewhere behind the scenes of one of those companies.
	Now, the thing is that you've got two competing companies.
	They're both supposed to be doing technology.
	So my understanding is Vermidge was working on portal technology.
	Correct me if I'm wrong.
	And that the two of the stars were supposedly supposed to be Creating like reverse engineering a UFO which is of course already been done We know this in the secret space program years ago But nonetheless they're reinventing the wheel because they want to bring it into the public domain They want to make money off it and they want to bring free energy in essence to the public zero point whatever you want to call it whatever Fancy name you want to give it so both companies had
	kind of a little bit similar approaches and In the sense that they're both creating technology.
	Then they were competitors.
	That's why Vermidge, the first thing he wanted to know is how much he knew about To The Stars.
	He wanted to know if you were in bed with them, basically.
	That was probably his way of sussing you out.
	A lot of that's probably true, too, I would say.
	But you just gave a very, very lofty, I must say, very view of what they're trying to achieve.
	I would say, a little more simply, they created two companies.
	However, they, being they, I would say, people like Pandolfi, he must have some connection to this guy, Simi Van.
	They have some kind of a mutual kind of direction where, you're right, so the Stars Academy is talking more about physical UFOs, UAPs, coming into our military, you know, exercises, being filmed by military craft, being shown to the public, okay?
	That's one thing.
	Then we have Joe Furmich's company that, for whatever reason, Ron wanted people to think that Joe was making a device that can open up a portal.
	That never was what InterNASA was.
	For the nine months I was directly involved from January to about September, Of 2018, Carrie, that was not what Joe was working on.
	So what was he working on?
	Literally, what was Joe working on, if not that?
	My lawyer and I are very careful on one thing.
	We're not going to give away Joe's Technology, but it's pretty safe to say.
	People have gleaned what it is.
	It comes off of years of research dealing with gyros.
	There is a very unique...
	I mean, it's not a secret.
	Just Joe sitting there talking about his device.
	Right.
	I mean, there are videos of this.
	He's talking about something.
	But the specificity of what he's dealing with is a device that can actually lift off of a table, lift off the ground...
	Using no known technology or propulsion systems that we're aware of, creating some kind of interplay between these spinning apparatuses, if you will.
	And it's very fascinating.
	It doesn't mean he's achieved it yet, but he's very, very far along in evaluating what this is.
	There are people who say that, oh, it didn't work in 2009, 2010.
	We proved it doesn't work.
	That's how it put off.
	That's the guy who used to run this company, Motion Sciences with Joe, who now owns Skinwalker Ranch.
	They're both adamant.
	They proved Joe's technology doesn't work.
	Really?
	Well, that's not what Ron Pandolfi seems to feel.
	So it's a very interesting story when you hear Hal Puthoff, now very much to the Stars Academy, is putting down Joe's device.
	When there's a video that exists between you and me, Kerry, it has Hal Puthoff, Kit Green, standing up, And saying, literally on video, how much they believe in Joe's technology in 2009-2010.
	So what happened?
	Keith Green, former head of the weird desk in the CIA, Ron's predecessor, and Ken Hal put off?
	One moment they really believe in it, and now they don't believe in it.
	That's really funny.
	I'd love to get Keith Green and Hal put off on the phone right now and say, guys, what happened after that video you shot in 2010, this testimonial that we all have seen, What happened?
	When did you decide that it doesn't work and Joe's full of baloney?
	This is a very interesting story.
	All right.
	Now, what is Joe's, just out of curiosity, is Joe upset at the lawsuit?
	Is he, you know, is he cheering you on?
	Where is he with this?
	because he we're talking about a lot seems to have a very much Teflon kind of like you know exterior where things just kind of slide off of doesn't seem to care if people sue him a lot I know that he's been sued before right I don't care As far as my lawyer and I are concerned, we look at Donald Trump.
	Here's a guy who's had all kinds of financial problems in New York.
	I grew up in New York.
	I've witnessed it in Atlantic City.
	I witnessed it in New York.
	He's not considered to be the best businessman ever.
	You said what you wanted by Donald Trump.
	Four, apparently, corporate bankruptcies.
	Many people affected by this.
	He's still president.
	Joe's had a couple of problems in business too.
	He's also raised millions of dollars, made millionaires out of many people in the company he worked with back in Silicon Valley in the 90s.
	These are people who are millionaires because of Joe.
	So this is a fact.
	Joe's made many millionaires, but...
	In this particular regard, he didn't take care of his business.
	He didn't make sure he got the investment from this Daniel Marriott.
	Daniel Marriott dangled the investment for months, telling us he put the money in.
	If this happened, that happened.
	When all those things were resolved, he still wouldn't put the money in.
	So my lawyer feels it's a bit of a fraud technique.
	It's a maneuver by these people collectively to utilize me, my contacts in Hollywood, my experience in doing these type of, you know, projects where you get the information out to the public and all that.
	Not a good thing.
	They just didn't take care of their business, Carrie.
	I hear you.
	Now, in terms of this sort of overall thing, and I know we've got limited time.
	I don't want to take you longer then because I assume we had something else going on.
	Basically, what I want to say here is You know, if all things were equal, is there any way that these people could come around to you?
	Because a lawsuit can't be, you know, I mean, maybe they don't give a shit, but, you know, or whatever, excuse my language, but, you know, or maybe they do.
	In other words, are you, the damages that you're asking, are you at liberty to say what the damages are?
	Yeah, the damages are close to $300,000 now.
	I wouldn't have given up my Hollywood work for a year or more.
	It was a two-year contract.
	It was a guaranteed two-year contract.
	With very clear stipulations of the increase of salary and whatnot.
	My job was, I fulfilled all my obligations.
	I could document that in court, no problem.
	All the meetings, all the work, all the phone calls, everything right up down the line.
	I think what their issue is, they have a limited amount of time when you file a lawsuit.
	If they don't act on that lawsuit, defend it, you get a default judgment.
	So right now the judgment could be as high as $300,000 or more.
	If they want to settle this, I'm amenable to a settlement recognizing their own problems in setting up their company.
	Understanding maybe that Joe, maybe he was screwed by Marriott a little bit.
	That's okay.
	I understand that too.
	But the point is, there might be a way to resolve it if they just get their investment community, the people that were involved in this company, to realize they gotta pay me.
	It's an employment legal contract.
	It's not like, you know, a handshake.
	It's a serious contract.
	Right.
	Absolutely.
	And you're a professional guy.
	And that should be...
	I have two kids going to college, Kerry.
	You know, one more to go to college, one soon to go.
	I can't afford to have a year of my life be stolen from me that way.
	And there's also one last thing I want to make sure we're clear about today.
	This is a pattern.
	A pattern.
	There are people who are going to call up on the stand in court that are going to recognize and tell to the jury, this is not the first time this has happened.
	There appears to be this propensity for the intelligence community to meddle in the research in the UFO community that we call UFO community.
	And they seem to want to kind of like screw people around and kind of put them backwards and maybe put them under very serious duress even.
	Right.
	Absolutely.
	To me, I'm the wrong guy because I'm documenting it.
	Okay, now just out of curiosity, you're a member of a company called InterNASA.
	And it's kind of interesting.
	I don't know why they're calling themselves InterNASA, for example.
	I told you.
	International Academy of Science and Arts.
	I see.
	That stands for InterNASA.
	Okay.
	Okay.
	It's just that intern and then NASA, you know.
	Yeah.
	If you actually look at it, it's actually fairly clear that the name matches this International Academy of Science and Arts.
	It kind of works.
	Okay.
	Fair enough.
	It also matches...
	NASA, right?
	Yeah.
	And the idea is Joe feels he has a device that could be utilized in space travel.
	Yeah, exactly.
	Okay.
	And they have made some, actually, advertisements about the company.
	You can actually go on YouTube.
	The company is a real ongoing concern.
	Oh, the latest is, Ron confirmed it, his operative, Kevin, has been now named the head of the company, living at Joe's house.
	Okay, but isn't it Joe's company?
	Am I wrong?
	They slid Kevin in somehow.
	Kevin now is now the...
	Oh, right.
	Yeah, I think I did hear that detail a while ago.
	Okay, that's a whole other thing.
	So, yeah, I mean, now I wanted to ask you, did you have colleagues that you were working with Who are also not paid what they were owed?
	Who are working for the company even today?
	My understanding was, and this is very clear, Marriott was putting in some seed money to pay certain bills along the way.
	So he didn't put his full investment in it.
	He claimed he dangled a few million dollar investment.
	He also wanted to make sure that if his investment would only go in, If there were no other investors.
	So it's sort of like a cash 22.
	Imagine you say you're going to put your money in, but you have to have a few things worked out.
	And then on the other hand, if other money comes in, you're going to leave and pull out anyway.
	So it was a real kind of maneuver he pulled on the company.
	And then on top of that, he did put some money in to keep the machine development going.
	He gave me a small check.
	He recognized my contract had to be affected somehow.
	So he threw me a check like in the middle of May or April of last year just to kind of pacify me, I guess.
	His lawyer told my lawyer, oh, just to be nice.
	To be nice.
	Alright, well, I mean, I have a bit of background in entertainment law, and my understanding is if money changes hands with regard to a contract, that actually solidifies the contract.
	So it's a good thing that they paid you something.
	It was.
	In fact, I think there was some concern at the InterNASA company that that was a problem, and they're right, it is a problem.
	They admitted, because if they did not pay me that little $5,000 check in April, The only monies I received against $300,000 they owe me.
	If I had received that, Carrie, I would have went probably to the court at that stage.
	I probably would have went in May.
	They knew they had a problem.
	They didn't pay me something.
	I was going to take action anyway.
	So in other words, it was a way to kind of stall and stall and keeping me working too, by the way.
	The idea is, Bob, keep working and maybe you'll get paid.
	It's a terrible situation.
	All right.
	So in terms of what's going on behind the scenes, do you have any, I guess what I'm trying to say, are there any players from either team, whether it be to the Stars team or the Firmage team, coming to you and supporting you behind the scenes?
	So you don't have to name names.
	Obviously, we're not going to do that.
	But I'm just saying, are there other people, corroborators or, you know, The only people that would be corroborating my story would be all the documents, recordings that were done just to keep my company work going.
	I had to record things.
	Joe would want me to make certain exact press releases or LinkedIn releases, so I would record some of those conversations.
	They were never recorded for any other purpose, just for my own needs, for my own writing, to be able to write down things.
	Okay, well you've got television executives.
	Hours and hours of conversations.
	Okay, what about the television executives that were involved in these discussions?
	Every one of them would be called to trial.
	Every one of them would be asked to come in.
	Think of this, Gary.
	It would not be very good for my career to call up a top executive I know and say, hey, by the way, would you come to my lawsuit, please?
	But I'll do it.
	I gotta do what you gotta do.
	Okay, very good.
	Now, I'm curious, how did those journalists decide to print this story?
	Because this is kind of the...
	The kind of thing where maybe you get the publicity and maybe you don't, or maybe they screwed up.
	In other words, you got The Sun.
	There's some other papers out there that are picking it up, from what I understand.
	Oh, please tell me about those.
	I don't know about the other ones.
	Okay, I thought there were more than one.
	I'm sure there are, but The Sun does germinate these stories.
	They go everywhere.
	Right.
	So I just wondered, did you go to The Sun or did they come to you?
	The sun came to me.
	One of the writers heard about...
	I have a GoFundMe.
	I want to make this clear to your listeners and your viewers.
	I have a GoFundMe.
	GoFundMe.com.
	This is a campaign to raise money to prosecute my lawsuit.
	It's going to cost me a lot of money to do this.
	So I have a lawyer working fairly with me, but I'm still going to have to do all kinds of depositions and all kinds of things that go along with the trial.
	So if you go to GoFundMe.com and just put in Robert Kiviet, it pops up.
	My GoFundMe page.
	You know, you put in $20.
	You put $10.
	At least I'll know who you are.
	I'll be able to get back to you as the lawsuit progresses.
	I may even look at things down the road, like maybe even looking at public service.
	I'm looking a lot at maybe getting more into politics myself.
	So these are the kind of things that I want to build a kind of a group of people, a constituency, if you will.
	So if people go to my GoFundMe page, put in $10, you know, and see who you are.
	I'll be able to thank you and help me with my lawsuit.
	I would appreciate it.
	Okay, do you know anything about...
	To answer your question, they heard about the Sun has reporters and stringers in England.
	They heard about both the GoFundMe campaign and the lawsuit and contacted them.
	Oh, very good.
	Okay, so I was just curious, are you aware of the current state of the technology that Firmage is involved in?
	Yes, I think it's safe to say we're talking about a very Intuitive idea that he had years ago.
	He said he got it from an experience he had, like an experiencer would have.
	Some kind of event occurred.
	He's not quite sure what to make of it.
	He was able to get some kind of inspiration to create this gravity control device.
	The gravity control device is built on some principles that some other physicists over the years have tried to work with.
	It's not like such out there stuff.
	It's really very...
	Balanced, if you will, research done over many, many years.
	Have you been in the presence of this technology?
	No, I've not been to the location.
	I was actually kept from the location.
	They wanted me to more or less do it from afar, do my media, my public relations, my communications work, whatever, not on site.
	I asked several times to come.
	They made it clear to me that they were in deep research on a device, didn't really necessarily want me there, so I never really saw it.
	But I've seen videos of it, and I'm sure people have seen videos of it, and I've been kept very close to what is going on, but I'm not going to say things like, the machine has floated off the ground and I've seen it.
	No, I've not.
	Okay.
	All right.
	Have you talked to any other scientists within the company who have also seen the same thing?
	Yes, I've talked to the engineers that are working on the device.
	I know they're also somewhat been paid.
	I indicated before that Marriott, Daniel Marriott, paid some money to me a little bit and paid a little more to those people doing the work on the device because Pindolfi and Kevin They were trying to get Joe to get this thing done.
	Get it done by May.
	We're getting a big conference going in Colorado in May.
	We're going to show this to some very important people in May of last year.
	That was a big date.
	Get ready for May.
	So they were trying to get this device up and running and do everything they could.
	And they were disappointed when Joe could not seem to perform and get it ready and that caused like a schism in the company and they decided to go dark for like two or three months and just work on the device when I headed to New York and LA out here to try to get the networks to do a TV series because I realized Tom DeLonge's out there trying to get his alleged series made and I'm trying to do a show like I'm known for making these shows.
	Tom DeLonge was playing in his rock band when I was making these shows for Fox and So to me, it's like, this is my area, you know?
	So we tried, but at the end, they got their show on history.
	We're not quite sure what that's going to look like.
	And we're still trying to get my show on.
	I might drop the international part out of the show, but I wouldn't drop the part about Joe out of the show.
	Joe is a fascinating guy.
	Joe is absolutely creating something he believes in.
	And by the way, to answer your question, there are other scientific people around the world That have tested the similar devices that Joe is doing.
	So there's like a little race around the world right now to take the general processes that Joe is working with and come up with the one device that's going to work.
	So it's not like he's the only guy out there developing similar technology.
	He's developing something that a few other people are developing as well.
	Okay.
	Well, I want to thank you so much for coming on my show, talking about this so candidly.
	I want to say that we do have a disclaimer.
	We're not responsible for, you know, any individuals who wish to.
	We also have no money, but you know, when I have an issue with any anything that we've said here.
	And so I am the investigator and and I see that you're basically telling everything as you understand it.
	And so we're going to leave it like that.
	And I think that this does pertain directly to what goes on in the UFO community.
	And that's a loose, you know, sort of category, if you want to call it that.
	If I can, Carrie, can I just follow up something you just said?
	Sure.
	You're taking a chance every time you do a story that you're going to break some kind of information that maybe shouldn't get out and someone's going to get angry or whatever.
	I think when we as journalists step forward and take it personally and we put our butt on the line, the people in the UFO community should say, you know what?
	They're not just talking.
	They're not just giving lectures.
	They're not just reading books and giving anecdotal stuff.
	They're living it.
	So if you have any kind of compassion for people like me and Kerry, in my case, go to my GoFundMe thing.
	Help me out a little bit.
	If you don't, I wonder what kind of commitment you really have to this because I put my life into this thing.
	The UFO, by the way, mystery...
	Carrie, you and I, last time I was on, debated a little bit.
	I'm sorry we got a little bit, you know, a little heated.
	We can all debate, but we're trying to get to the truth.
	That's the one thing about you and me I know is the same.
	And if people out there hear this today and watch this today and go to my GoFundMe thing and see the way I presented this whole thing, just remember, this comes out of all the work I did at Fox, all the exiles type specials I did.
	This is not a joke to me, so help me out if you can.
	Wonderful.
	Okay, very nice to talk to you again, Bob, and good luck with everything.
	Let's see how this progresses, and I hope you'll come back and share with us, you know, next steps, okay, when things do progress, and you'd like to have, you know, this audience and get our attention, please let me know.
	Will do.
	Thanks a lot, Carrie.
	Take care.
	All right.
	Take care.
	Bye-bye.
	Okay, bye-bye.
	So that is really very, very fascinating.
	And it's great to have him on the show and to be able to do this.
	And just so people know, it was a little unorganized in the beginning.
	I just got off a plane, literally.
	I had to walk into a house and set myself up with a computer that's completely foreign to me.
	And I had some help and we did the best we can.
	So I think that we got the audio sorted.
	And I think that I'm not sure what's been recorded on YouTube.
	I'm also recording a simultaneous audio.
	So we won't lose anything.
	So we've got it.
	And I think this testimony was really important from Robert Kvyat.
	So, and please do support his drive to get paid, basically, and also to, you know, out what is going on behind the scenes with some of these players.
	Kind of taking people for a ride, it appears, and maybe also trying legitimately to out this story, which is a huge story, which I've been covering now for over 14 years, night and day.
	And as you can see, Bob Kvyat, he even precedes me.
	He's been doing this longer than I have, so...
	It is a labor of love, but it's not easy to stay with it, and there's a lot of interference of all kinds.
	So I want to thank you for watching today, and I will do some more broadcasts as the situation permits with other things.
	I had a very fascinating discussion, I think it was yesterday, although I think I lost a day, so that was Monday, with With Nick Begich and asked him some very hot questions and got his response on that.
	So I think it's worth taking a look at.
	And there have been some other recent videos that I've been doing, interviews, etc.
	And we'll see what we come across.
	I'm on my way to lead a tour in Egypt starting on the 16th of this month.
	And will be gone for 11 days.
	So during that time, it's highly doubtful that I'll do anything, but it's possible.
	Because I always like to, you know, I'm an investigative reporter, and this is my life.
	So if something breaks, I'm going to be on the story, regardless of where I am in the world.
	Thanks a lot for watching, and take care.

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