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Nov. 1, 2017 - Project Camelot

01:54:39

TARGETED INDIVIDUALS & THE DEEP STATE WITH ELLA FREE, DR. AARON & DERRICK ROBINSON

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	Thank you.
	Thank you.
	I'm Carrie Cassidy from Project Camelot and a very interesting show we have for you tonight.
	It's going to be a lot of fun to talk to several people who've been involved in the whole targeted individuals surveillance, electronic and other kinds of Rather diabolical, probably scalar weapons.
	We're talking about even possibly the quantum targeting and so on.
	So tonight we have Ella Free with us, and I'm going to switch over to this other window so that we can begin to bring everyone on.
	There are some people having a bit of trouble, so there may be some drop-offs, but hopefully this will work.
	So as I said, we have Ella Free, we have Dr.
	Matthew Aaron, and we also have with us Derek Robinson.
	So what I'm going to do is I actually don't have bio information on everybody.
	I can say briefly that Ella Free is...
	She has her own show on Revolution Radio and she has a background in advertisement and promotion as well as media and became a targeted individual in 2003 and she is an activist in that area and so what I'm going to do is she also has a radio show she calls Whistleblower Nation on Revolution Radio and she can talk to us more about that Then we have Dr.
	Matthew Aaron, and he's the one on camera.
	Apparently he's the only one with a working camera, able to use a camera besides me today.
	So you can see his face there.
	And he has a Master of Science degree in Environmental Toxicology from Virginia Tech and a PhD in Neurobiology and Behavior from Cornell University.
	He was a recipient of the prestigious Fulbright Fellowship and Rotary Ambassadorial Scholarship.
	His research has been funded by the National Institutes of Health and National Science Foundation.
	He's authored 34 peer reviewed research papers on top In top science journals and he became a targeted individual in 2013.
	He has been extremely active in the community and was on the Ella Free show on Revolution Radio I guess in 2016 and has been a presenter at a conference for targeted individuals And again, these bios are on my Project Camelot website, so you're welcome to go over there.
	Derek Robinson, I don't think I got a bio for him.
	Sorry.
	And we'll ask him to introduce himself as well.
	So we're going to go one person at a time.
	Since I don't have your bio here, Derek, I'm going to click and see if I can bring you on the...
	I hope this is going to work.
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	And so I will...
	Okay.
	So, Derek, you're now live on the show.
	And I'm going to mute myself because I think we have a weird echo coming from...
	Okay.
	So I'm going to...
	That's going to be a bit difficult.
	So I don't know if you can hear me or not.
	Derek, could you introduce yourself, please?
	Derek, could you introduce yourself, please?
	Okay.
	Hi, Carrie, and thanks for the invitation to be here today.
	My name is Derek Robinson, and I'm the executive director of PACS International, which stands for People Against Covert Torture and Surveillance International.
	This is our human rights group addressing the needs of targeted individuals, and we have been around since November of 2015.
	I'm the former president of Freedom from Covert Harassment and Surveillance, a similar group, and I was president of that group for about 10 years.
	So we've been very active in this issue for about 12 years.
	Okay.
	So, wondering if you can let me know, what is your experience before we move?
	I don't know why I have an echo coming back at me.
	It's a bit difficult.
	So, Just because it might be more difficult to get back to you, Derek, if you could elaborate on your exposure to being a targeted individual.
	Okay, basically it started when I was in the service.
	Okay, I didn't hear what Matt said.
	We're getting a really bad echo, so I'm just asking everyone to mute their microphone when they're not talking.
	Right.
	Okay, so...
	Okay, can you hear me okay now?
	Yes.
	Okay, um...
	I guess my targeting started when I... Okay, can you hear me okay, Karen?
	Okay, my targeting started when I was in the Navy back in 2000, back in 1982.
	I was just nearly about ready to be discharged from the service.
	And for about the last year, I was being targeted with organized stalking by the Navy.
	And which, after I was released, it followed me back home to Cincinnati, Ohio.
	Back then, there were no support groups, and I had no idea about what I was in for for the next 20 years.
	But I was stalked and harassed, which affects everything.
	Your jobs, your social life, your family life, everything.
	So the career aspirations I had did not materialize.
	So basically, I did survival jobs.
	And until the internet came along, I thought I was really the only person being targeted.
	However, after I signed on to the internet, I discovered that there was quite a very active community of mind control victims, which, to my surprise, had a lot of similar scenarios happening around them that I did.
	Which was quite interesting and comforting.
	So I joined up with them and eventually one young lady decided to start a group where T.I.s would unite against the perpetrators.
	Her name was Sylvia.
	She was the originator of FFCHS, Freedom from Cobra Harassment and Surveillance.
	And I helped her in that effort in founding that group.
	Eventually her targeting became so severe that she stopped coming to the meetings and so I continued on myself with the group.
	And eventually we decided on the name.
	We became a 501c3 and we became active with this issue.
	We've been to Congress numerous times, which has not netted us any support whatsoever.
	We have put up billboards.
	We have had a lot of publicity, actually, about this issue.
	Jesse Ventures did an episode about targeted individuals called Brain Invaders.
	When he had his show, that brought a lot of publicity to our issue.
	The Washington Post did an article about our issues in 2007.
	Let's see, we did a couple of bulletin boards, which was not as successful as we had hoped.
	But there are a number of other things, such as Coast to Coast AM talk shows with Dr.
	Hall.
	We did a Richmond, California resolution.
	This city actually passed a resolution in support of targeted individuals in 2015.
	So we have actually And the Bioethics Commission, that was in 2011.
	And although we did not get very far with the commission, there was a lot of publicity surrounding that event, which helped our cause.
	A lot of people saw the testimonies of targeted individuals.
	And our cause grew actually from that experience, even though the Commission did not help us directly.
	These are some of the activism events that we did as a community, which brought us growth for the community and also a bit of notoriety.
	for the cause.
	And although we have grown quite a bit, we still have a ways to go until we reach a critical mass of the public so that they become aware of our issues and so that we can ultimately start to get help for targeted individuals.
	I believe that the real work for us getting assistance will be community activism.
	And there are some individuals in the community that are very involved with that.
	And we do have a number of support groups that are formulating around the country.
	And they will start to become more active in their local city councils so that they become more aware and start to address this issue of tired individuals.
	Okay.
	Thank you for that, Derek.
	Can you also explain why you think you were targeted?
	Is that basically what you had in mind?
	That's fine.
	Are you able to hear me okay?
	Carrie, can you hear me?
	Okay.
	I guess he can't hear me.
	I can hear him.
	So I'm not sure what's going on with that.
	Hello?
	Hello?
	Derek, I don't think you're able to hear her.
	Can you hear me?
	I can hear you.
	Okay, I guess Derek is able to hear us.
	Oh, wow.
	This is crazy.
	Are you able to hear me okay?
	Yes, I can hear you fine.
	Can you hear me okay?
	Okay.
	Now I can, yes.
	Yes, I can hear you, Karen.
	Okay, can you explain why you think you were targeted?
	Can you hear me?
	I can hear her and I can hear her.
	Okay, can you explain why you were targeted?
	Do you know why you were targeted?
	Okay.
	I'm gonna pause.
	That's great to see.
	Hi.
	It's like this long-distance.
	Okay, Keri, can you hear me?
	No, I can.
	Okay, I'm not sure how much that you heard in answer to your question.
	Okay, I think we're going to have too much trouble, Derek.
	I'm going to thank you for being on the show and let you go because I don't think this is going to work.
	I don't know if you can hear me.
	I guess not.
	There's such a long delay at your end.
	Okay.
	Yeah, can you hear me, Karen?
	Hello?
	Hello?
	Yes, I can hear you, Derek, but I think we have such a long delay.
	I'm going to have to hang up with you.
	And I don't know, you could try me on Skype.
	We might be able to bring you on the show on Skype, but this is not working for you.
	Sorry.
	Sorry.
	I'm not sure what to do.
	I'm going to have to actually kick him out.
	My audio is working fine.
	All right.
	Let's go on to you for now, Matthew.
	So what I'd like you to do is explain what your relationship is to the subject matter.
	I see that you have quite a bit of interesting background.
	Was your focus in this area of targeted individuals or were you actually looking to study something else and then you became targeted for whatever reason?
	I became targeted...
	Because of proximity to an organized crime group in Vancouver, British Columbia, which was right across the alley from my apartment.
	And targeting ensued as I became aware of what they were involved in.
	And they were involved in basically pervasive harassment of people in the local area of Vancouver where I lived.
	And I didn't realize the full...
	I was offended by what they were doing and I was outraged and I confronted them in person and in writing and then out came the heavy-duty anti-personnel electromagnetic weapons and it was six weeks of torture after that and I eventually fled Canada with nothing other than my passport.
	And some valuable evidence on the target.
	And so I became interested in this issue because I was targeted with what felt like essentially lethal force.
	Okay, what were you concentrating on your studies on prior to that?
	Oh, I am a neurobiologist and I studied weekly electric fish.
	From many different angles and weekly electric fish are all about bioelectricity.
	They're specialists in bioelectricity.
	So when I was targeted, I had no doubts about what was going on, that the bioelectric functions in my body were being interfered with by energy inputs to my body, high intensity energy inputs.
	I also have I'm an evolutionary biologist, so I studied weekly elected fish, everything from their nervous system to their genes to their ecology.
	It was very holistic-type research in Central Africa.
	I also worked at the Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center before I went to Vancouver.
	Okay, when you say, are you seeing the fish are located in Central Africa, or you went there?
	Yeah, these weekly elected fish live in Central Africa, so you...
	They're not very commonly available.
	They're very specialist organisms.
	So we had to go on collecting trips.
	And I also did some studies in the field.
	They're located all throughout Africa.
	Okay.
	Well, that's very interesting.
	Now, in terms of being a targeted individual, so you feel that you spoke out and then you became targeted.
	Is that right?
	I was the subject of low-level harassment from the day that I moved into this apartment because of its proximity to this harassment network.
	And I let it go for a long time, just making observations on what these criminals were up to.
	And, of course, being on the receiving end of low-level harassment, which I can get into if you would like.
	But eventually, enough was enough.
	And when I saw that these people were I'm displaying images using PowerPoint projectors of other residents being photographed in the privacy of their own home.
	I basically became upset by that because not only is that wrong and violated for those people, but it was like a harassment tool.
	I felt like the message was, you know, we've also been watching you.
	We've also been invading your private space.
	And so I confronted them, telling them that if they didn't stop this harassment, I was going to try to go public on what they were doing or go to the police.
	At that time, I didn't realize how dangerous they were.
	Does that make sense?
	Okay.
	You said this apartment.
	Are you still in the same apartment?
	Oh, no.
	I had to flee that apartment because they turned...
	I can't say for sure if they turned the whole force.
	Of the harassment network on me, but it sure felt like it.
	The motive behind the targeting in my case was to drive me away from an area where I was onto criminal activities and collecting evidence of that criminal activity.
	Okay, and why...
	What is the nature of this network that would turn and then target you?
	I mean, do they have access to electronics in order to do so, etc.?
	Well, because I'm on the law-abiding side of this, I only have glimmers of insights that I made from my observations and the evidence I collected, but I witnessed some devices that That essentially looked like beam weapons.
	And I'll say that in my opinion, and based on the evidence that I have, the nature of the harassment, there were basically three modes of weapons.
	There were very powerful, what were like almost military-grade anti-personnel weapons or microwave weapons.
	I got eyewitness sightings of what I thought were those during...
	A few different attacks on me.
	And then there were smaller versions of weapons which seemed like the street-level harassers would carry around in backpacks and other kinds of hidden things that resembled other electronics.
	They would carry them around and do mob attacks.
	And then the third kind of weapon was what seemed to be Installed devices that were, even in my apartment, some devices were pre-installed, but also, for example, I went into a train station one time and was heavily assaulted there, and it seemed like the energy was coming through a wall at the train station.
	Okay.
	All right.
	Well, that's very interesting.
	So what I want to do at this time is, I guess, move on to Ella Free, and then we'll come back to you again, Matthew, obviously.
	Okay, great.
	So, Ella, if you want to introduce yourself, and hopefully we'll get some clear audio from you, and please do apologize when you get a chance, if you're possibly in contact with Derek.
	Very sorry to not be able to continue with him, but the Audio problems and the delay was just too much.
	I'm not sure why the problem was so extreme.
	But at any rate, Ella, could you please introduce yourself and how you got involved in this area of harassment and surveillance and targeting?
	Ella, can you hear me?
	Hello?
	Unmute your microphone, maybe?
	Well, she was unmuted.
	Maybe I've muted her at my end, and I need to...
	No?
	She has full sound.
	I'm not sure what has happened.
	Ella, are you unable to...
	if can you hear me and are you able to speak okay what I would suggest is I know she can't hear me maybe I can try texting her here on the screen I don't know if there's a way to do that.
	No.
	What I will do is I'll actually kick her out and then she will come back on and maybe that'll trigger her sound to work.
	And in the meanwhile, I don't know, you know, maybe this is like a Fede complete that we're having targeted individuals try to do a show together.
	And, of course, that just means we're going to be targeted.
	But one would hope that wouldn't be the case, but I'm afraid it might be.
	So not sure what happened there with Ella.
	I would hope she would try to get back in the room.
	And...
	I don't, at the moment, have a way to call back people.
	That's not how this one works.
	This particular situation is one where people have to come back in themselves of their own volition.
	It's a browser-based software, basically, and so we don't control calling people from there.
	Okay, well, you can hear me, I assume, still, Matthew, and perhaps we can get in more depth here.
	You did appear on Ella's show, apparently.
	Can you elaborate on anything that you know about Ella and even Derek?
	I'm not sure if you've been in contact with both of them for a period of time.
	And also this individual...
	Both of them have interviewed me.
	Okay, and also this individual whose last name is...
	I believe Kofran.
	I don't know Brian Kofran.
	Okay, so can you talk at all about your interactions with Ella and with Derek?
	Sure.
	So after I fled Canada, the harassment network that was after me with heavy force at that time, I mean we're talking vigilante style Terrorism and electromagnetic assaults non-stop.
	It was out of control.
	And I'm a pretty courageous and tough person, but I just felt like I had to abandon everything and flee.
	And I wasn't going to leave without taking some critical evidence, which I still have.
	I've been advertising heavily to authorities ever since.
	But I fled to Seattle.
	And this harassment network actually pursued me to Seattle, but with the help of family, I was able to break my contact with them the evening that I arrived in Seattle.
	Now, I left a consulting job.
	I had a very nice life.
	I lost everything.
	I left everything behind.
	And I was so outraged, and I still am so outraged, that I immediately set out to document everything that happened to me.
	I started that.
	I did not stop until I completed and I documented a 500-page report which I sent to the RCMP, the FBI, the Attorney General of Canada, who the Minister of Justice, I mean the Office of the Attorney General of Canada is apparently taking an interest in this issue now.
	But to answer your question, After I documented that, I sent my report also to members of the community, and that's how I met Derek and Ella.
	Okay.
	And that was about 10 months ago.
	And Ella immediately invited me to come on her show, and Derek also reached out to me.
	I'm very grateful to both of them.
	And a couple months after I Interviewed with Ella, I did an interview with Derek as well.
	I've been an active member of the community ever since.
	So, Ella, is this you?
	Can you hear me?
	I'm assuming this is Ella who's come into the room with us.
	Are you able to hear us?
	Hello?
	Okay.
	Okay, sorry everyone for the problems here.
	Whoever this person is, I guess- Yes, this is me.
	Are you able to hear me?
	Now we can hear you.
	I can hear you.
	Can you hear me?
	Yes, now we can hear you.
	So, Ella, what I was asking you before was if you could introduce yourself and explain how you got involved in this whole subject matter.
	Hello?
	Okay, I don't...
	I know she does a show on Revolution.
	I hope she doesn't have this kind of problem on her own show.
	I think she's getting a lot of electronic interference related to harassment right now.
	This is electronic interference from the people that are harassing her.
	All right.
	Ella, can you hear me?
	me I can sort of hear myself somewhere being echoing sorry I I'm going to actually kick her out again.
	Sorry about this, everyone.
	Obviously, this is a problem.
	I'm going to try to leave this unlocked and see if that helps.
	So, Derek, you know, in terms of this situation, when you've been targeted, how does it manifest?
	What are your symptoms, I guess you might say?
	Me?
	You said Derek.
	I think you meant Matthew.
	Oh, I'm sorry.
	Matthew, sorry.
	Okay.
	For me, I got, let's see, I'll just try to list the different symptoms.
	I don't like to use the word symptoms because that sounds like it's organically generated.
	These are effects, bio-effects basically.
	I got what felt like stabs of needle-thin beams that felt like thermally and electrically painful.
	At low energy they would just They could be as low as just tingling on the surface of my skin.
	But when I perceived the energy level to be higher, it actually went straight through me, into my organs, straight through my body.
	And when those beams would hit bone, for example, bone was particularly sensitive.
	Also, there's other sensitive parts on your body.
	You can just use your imagination.
	I also got...
	When the very large devices were discharged at me, sometimes a large part of my body would become sunburned, essentially.
	And at the site of impact, I would get visible bruises, welts.
	The bruises were associated.
	The bruises looked fairly minor or moderate, but they were associated with what felt like tissue damage right through my body.
	Sometimes my heart would be left feeling like it had a first-degree burn in my heart and aorta that would last a day or two.
	The muscle pain and the bone pain from these jolts of energy would also last many hours, if not a couple of days.
	I was one time assaulted face-on through my solarium window and it left very curious beam marks in my window that were concentric circles that actually matches patented technology that allows the microwaves to be focused in a beam or directed in a beam.
	And that same pattern of concentric circles was burned into my visual field.
	For an entire day.
	And then during some of the attacks, when the energy was consistent, not just a pulse of energy, but a field of energy or a beam of energy that was consistent, I would get very loud ringing sound in my ear.
	Which, looking back on it after learning more, is basically the microwave auditory effect.
	My muscles would be stimulated.
	And in minor cases, it was just like a trembling of the muscles.
	And in a major case, it would be essentially epileptic seizure-type activity.
	Uncontrolled.
	I mean, I was barely able to move.
	And moving in those cases was me always fleeing as fast as I could, running out of my apartment, hiding in the concrete stairwell.
	One time when I was walking down Burrard Street, I think they achieved these different effects by basically changing the modulation pattern of the signal.
	And one time they essentially paralyzed me, not in a way that my muscles were moving uncontrollably, but just that I was basically weakened to the point where I just had to crumple to the ground And I couldn't move.
	And I had an intense nausea.
	I felt sicker than I am.
	I felt like I had radiation sickness.
	As soon as the beam was turned off, the effects went away like a light switch was thrown.
	So you studied these electrical fish, which I'm sensing that this is something that They reflect the energies in some form or fashion.
	But did you also study how to withstand the attacks in any way?
	Have you tried to explore that angle?
	Well, the overlap between my previous research and my My studies in science and the targeting was there for sure.
	For example, during physiological recordings on electric fish, we would use a Faraday cage to basically filter out high-frequency noise.
	Now, what is that high-frequency noise?
	Well, at the time, we just called it high-frequency noise, but what it was being generated by was background radiofrequency energy.
	And also alternating currents from the electricity in the room.
	And so I had some knowledge of this kind of shielding material and whatnot, but really the overlap is minimal.
	Getting targeted with microwave weapons is really unlike anything I've ever experienced or dealt with in the past.
	So the overlap was...
	I had a head start over...
	A lot of targeted people, for sure.
	But I had to learn on the fly.
	Now, I have not been able to put that knowledge into practice because when I was targeted, they kept me on the move.
	I had no time to reflect, plan, do counter maneuvers at all.
	I was basically in flight for six weeks around town, constantly trying to avoid them.
	And since that night of leaving Canada, I have not been targeted at all.
	So if I get targeted again, yes, I have made preparations.
	I build myself a shielded clothing.
	I had it custom made.
	And I have the knowledge now that if it happens again, I will know how to react.
	But as you may know, shielding, these weapons are very, some of them are very advanced.
	And shielding is only partially effective.
	Sure.
	Well, I just wonder if you're aware of going out into nature that helps to alleviate this type of thing.
	In my opinion, the more you get away from people, the more you can protect yourself from targeting.
	Grounding makes a lot of sense.
	Being a biologist, a career biologist, I have an affinity for nature.
	So going into nature is a good idea for targeting people.
	I would agree.
	Yes, absolutely.
	Get rid of also what they call electronic smog, which is all around us, of course, for wireless and contact with our computers, televisions, fluorescent lights, you name it.
	Right.
	When you're in Central Africa doing fieldwork in a remote place, you can feel this...
	Serenity, and it comes from a lot of different things, but the electro smog is not there.
	People aren't involved in this criminal garbage.
	People still live in a society that has interpersonal interactions, so it's wonderful being in those situations.
	Absolutely.
	Now, do we have Ella?
	Is this Ella that has come into the room?
	Are you able to hear us this time, Ella?
	Hopefully so.
	Can you guys hear me?
	Yes.
	I can hear you.
	Wonderful.
	Okay, great.
	Yes, this is par for the course.
	In almost anything I do, including my own show, I've yet to have a radio show that doesn't have some kind of interference.
	So, they, you know...
	They, whoever they may be, the powers that be definitely make it very difficult.
	This is just a normal everyday experience for us as targeted individuals.
	So did you want me to go into a little bit about how I was targeted as well and how I found the community?
	Yes, Ella.
	I wanted you to talk about how you got involved in the targeting and the subject matter, as well as, of course, your own experience.
	Okay.
	Well, I'll keep my own experience short because I can summarize it really quick.
	I like to focus on the activism part and shielding and the various aspects related to that.
	But for me, you mentioned I was an advertisement.
	At one point, I'd worked at a model, well, like 20 years, but I always held another type of job.
	And during that time, you can become the object of unwanted attention.
	And what had happened, a man had kind of fixated on me, and it was an obsession.
	When we moved from California, he actually followed me up to Portland, Oregon, where I live now.
	And he had pursued me and at some point when he had started sending me emails and trying to correspond with me, he made it clear by a message in the email that he could see in my house.
	He mentioned something about the sweats I was wearing.
	And at that point, I became very alarmed and I said that you need to stop, you know, you've got to stop doing this.
	I'm married.
	Friendship's even out of the question at this point.
	And I didn't realize what this man had gone through to kind of get to me and what he was doing.
	And he's a very, very wealthy man.
	I think he's like $40 million.
	He has homes all over.
	So this man definitely has some money.
	Um, but the fact that I was aware that he could see in the house became a big issue.
	Plus I also have children and a husband.
	And so I had said that if you were not going to stop surveilling me and interfering with my life, um, I was going to go to the FBI, and I tried to, you know, I said I was going to go to the police, and I did all those things.
	And I remember getting a message saying that if I did that, you know, that I would be killed, basically, if I was going to go forward and talk to all these people.
	Because I knew a little bit of some of the people in LA. We had a common circle in Los Angeles.
	I threatened to call them and let them know what was going on, so I did all these things.
	I print screened things.
	I took notes, copious notes.
	So there was, when I did go to the FBI, they could see that something was going on.
	And they actually did try to help me, but they were not able to find traces of what was going on or to be able to tie the gentleman or the man that was doing this to me to what they were finding.
	And so, and at that point, all of a sudden, I noticed I was being followed a lot.
	And, um, And, you know, they were doing things to, this is the gang stalking phase, I call it.
	Some people have gang stalking where people are following you and mobbing you throughout their targeting.
	But for me, it was the initial part of my targeting.
	And so there was people coming up and just taking my picture, you know, everywhere I went.
	This was a really strange thing.
	And I knew it was this man because I knew he had money and how hard would it be for him to pay someone to harass me, especially because I went to great lengths to expose this gentleman.
	And so...
	And then we can fast forward to a few years.
	So I knew he was still sitting in the home because I was still getting messages and comments.
	And it seemed because of some of the messages I was receiving that he'd been watching me for years.
	He knew information from years and years ago.
	So I was still trying to stop this person.
	I had contacted his wife.
	He's married.
	Like I said, I went to great lengths.
	I didn't know that retaliation could be like this.
	I just wasn't aware of this program.
	I'd never heard about targeting.
	I'd never heard about gang stalking.
	I just thought it was a simple stalking situation that had gone really to an extreme level.
	At one point, I remember laying in bed one night, and I felt this thing.
	It felt like a knife in my thigh.
	And I didn't know what it was.
	I mean, this man had money.
	I knew he made it from technology.
	So I knew he had the wherewithal to kind of create weapons.
	And I did try to explain it to people.
	I mean, I was in shock, literally and figuratively, what was happening.
	And I felt these...
	Burning sensations, you know, all night long that evening.
	I was trying to explain it to people.
	And unfortunately, as a target individual, you don't get the support you need when such a devastating thing is happening.
	And this is extreme pain.
	This was, you know, Matthew and I understand this.
	We both have had this kind of extreme targeting.
	Just, you know, it'll stop you in your tracks.
	It's just so devastatingly painful.
	And So, I tried to go online, and I was looking up...
	The only thing I could come up with was that maybe this is laser technology of some sort.
	And so, I was researching lasers.
	I did find a lot about lasers.
	And I didn't know that gang stalking was...
	A word that was applicable.
	I might have seen that word when I was researching stalkers, but I didn't tie it in together as gangsta.
	I just thought that was like gangs, you know, like the Bloods and the Crips.
	I just somehow didn't click on it to further investigate into it.
	And then one day after, gosh, I've been going through the physical parts of this for...
	Maybe eight months by myself trying to convince people that something strange was going on.
	And, you know, people thinking that there was something wrong with me, you know, because they couldn't see it.
	This is a plausible deniability crime.
	There's no evidence of it.
	And so I went on Facebook and put in lasers, you know, stalking and...
	This man came up on Facebook profile.
	He was a targeted individual.
	And I'd never heard that term.
	And I said, and I messaged him.
	I said, oh my gosh, can I speak with you?
	I can't believe there's another person.
	I can't believe this is happening to anybody else.
	So I proceeded to call him.
	We had a great conversation.
	He put me in touch with a woman down in Los Angeles named Deedee Hall.
	And she connected me to TalkShoe, which gives live conference calls that so many of the targets get on, that Derek has on as well.
	And I was put in touch with my first targeted individual.
	The relief of knowing that, I mean, I knew I wasn't crazy, but you couldn't convince anyone around me that I was not.
	And so, oh, it was just the biggest relief.
	And finding those TalkShoe forums and connecting to all these people, I mean, I just jumped in.
	When I found the group, all I wanted to do was activism.
	We've got to stop this.
	We need to educate people.
	I'd never heard the word.
	So my mission was to make this public.
	And I had connections in Los Angeles, not many, And many of them had already heard that I was quote-unquote crazy and delusional and that I was not right and they thought something was wrong with my body chemistry or something.
	In all these years, people have always trusted me.
	I've always been straightforward.
	I've always been honest.
	It was very sad to see people turn on you.
	But with this group of people, it was just such a wonderful experience to be embraced by people who are going through the same thing.
	And I learned all the terminology.
	And I immediately started...
	I got great information.
	I educated myself.
	First thing you need to do if you realize you're a target individual, you need to educate yourself.
	And I did that with great care.
	And I read everything and was able to kind of sift through it.
	It's such a broad topic that it's difficult to...
	Figure out exactly what's going on with you, as you know, Carrie.
	You know, there's the mind control aspect as well.
	There's V2K, which I do get.
	And it's a very difficult thing to live with.
	That came, that was like the third phase, I believe.
	So there was the directed energy weapons, then the V2K. In some mind influencing, I call it brain influencing technology because these microwaves can basically be geared to do anything.
	And Matthew knows a lot about microwave technology, so he might be able to kind of articulate on that topic.
	But so, you know, I immediately started, you know, getting the best information I can working with a gentleman named David Voits who's walking across America on behalf of target individuals.
	he taught me a lot and he basically was sharing the story by walking across America that there was a group of people called target individuals and he also specialized with brain human machine interface testing and so you know that was a piece that was very interesting to me and and I knew that it could influence your mood you know new my voice could somehow you know because you see the dynamics in your own family and you know your own self and you know that it can it can influence you the
	These microbes can basically do anything.
	So you pinpoint them just right.
	And it's an art form at this point because they've been doing it since at least from World War II with Project Paperclip.
	They were doing this with the concentration camp survivors.
	And so a lot of these scientists, these Navaria scientists, were sent to either Russia or to America under Project Paperclip to work for the government and to help them to Fine-tune this science and to weaponize it, basically.
	And to influence, too.
	And then this Delgado's Bull.
	Are you familiar with that, Carrie?
	I don't know by the name Delgado.
	I'm not sure what you're referring to.
	Well, he's very interesting.
	It's something people can go on YouTube and see.
	He researched...
	He was a very...
	What's the word I'm looking for?
	He was not a well man, in my opinion.
	He was...
	He was experimenting on animals.
	He took a bowl and he was able, with microwaves, but attached.
	What would you call it, Matthew?
	What do you call it when it's attached?
	In that case, he used, he put an implant into, I can't remember which part of the bull's brain, I think the thalamus of the bull.
	And he did brain surgery on this bull.
	And then he performed this Yahoo stunt where he went into the bullfighting ring.
	He was His name is Jose Delgado and he had a remote controller and as the bull charged him he pressed a button and the bull basically dropped to its knees.
	Yes, now I recall hearing this.
	That's a cruder version of what they're doing nowadays because that required an implant but these kinds of attacks that I've experienced that Ella has experienced and others don't require that any longer.
	It doesn't require it.
	It can just beam the energy at you and create various kinds of effects.
	Yeah, that was in the 40s, so they've had a long time to prevent this.
	Okay.
	Ella, can you...
	No, it's okay.
	I just wanted to ask you, you talked about a sort of trajectory of a number of experiences.
	Can you put a date on them, like when it started, and then when you became aware and started to...
	Sure.
	It seems that the stalking started in 2004, from what I understand.
	He made it known that that's when he had seen me, and when he'd quote-unquote fallen in love with me, or whatever the case may be, this obsession had started.
	So that started in 2004, and...
	When I confronted him, not physically, just, you know, through communications, internet communications, and then in 2011 is when the gang stalking started, and the harassment, and even going on a family vacation, you know, and all of a sudden these people come around, you sit around and start taking pictures, and it's unnerving.
	It's kind of a psyops.
	They call it psyops, which is trying to antagonize you.
	And so then in 2000...
	What year did the physical part begin?
	The electronic harassment, I believe, started in 2013, near the end of 2013, that December.
	And so...
	That's when that started.
	The V2K, which I wasn't, it was already happening before it became audible.
	When they're training you for your mind for V2K, and maybe Matthew can touch upon that a little bit and give a little scientific information on that.
	It's almost in your own voice, except it says things all of a sudden that you start in your own voice.
	You hear things that you would never say, you know, like it will say, Really crude things like fucking, sorry, you know, calling you names and things like that, that you just don't talk.
	And I'm like, oh my God, what is going on?
	This is like science fiction, you know?
	And so that's kind of how it starts.
	And it's so sneaky because you don't realize that, you know, someone can do this to you and they could be influencing you in ways you're unaware of.
	And they could be saying things to you and you think it's your own thought, which is a very, very scary thing to do and to experience.
	Okay, so you're talking about voice to skull.
	Is that what you're talking about?
	Now, Matthew, she was saying you had some background in that area.
	Do you want to elaborate?
	Well, I can elaborate partially.
	I know how the microwave auditory effect works, and I definitely got the microwave auditory effect, but personally they never used voice-modulated microwave signals on me.
	So I never got voice to skull.
	But the microwave auditory effect that creates the ringing sound in your ear, it's based on the same principle.
	The only thing I would add, I think what Ella was alluding to, she and I had many discussions on this, and I believe when they do voice to skull at a very low intensity, The recipient of that can start to mix that up with their internal voice a little bit.
	And so it's kind of like what they would call maybe subliminal suggestions can be done that way.
	Would you agree with that, Ella?
	100%.
	And sometimes it's interesting when I reflect back on it, being a very reflective person anyway, and I was thinking back to thoughts I'd had that were so not thoughts I normally would have.
	Just The way that we talk to ourselves.
	We're used to our own type of dialogue.
	We use our own words.
	And there were really crude words.
	And I'm like, my God, that wasn't even me.
	But now it's very obvious.
	But I still check I call that silent B2K and it's the training.
	I think that's how it originally starts.
	And so, but then it, you know, now it's progressed to sounds and it's really awful.
	They do in the middle of the night when you're trying to sleep, you hear all these loud noises or maniacal laugh, you hear a blow horn, you hear unbelievable things.
	And it's, you know, you can't get away from it.
	It's, I don't really know which is worse, dealing with that or dealing with the physical aspects of this.
	It's really difficult to talk about that as well because people think you're schizophrenic, except schizophrenics don't hear the terms that most of us hear, which are usually derogatory comments.
	Many of us will report the same things that they say to you.
	They're trying to break you down.
	They say awful things to you.
	It's not like you have a friend.
	The other thing is to touch upon the mental health field that Obviously, it gets involved with almost every target individual I know.
	And when I had tried to express my concerns and what I was experiencing, and I didn't have the terminology, if I had the education that I have now, maybe I could have kept myself from ending up in a mental health facility for a week.
	So, you know, it's very difficult.
	So you get to the point where you're afraid to speak on anything.
	Oh, I hear an echo.
	Did Derek come in or something?
	Okay, well that's interesting.
	No, actually nothing changed on our end.
	I'm going to mute you, Ella, right now and see if that helps and I'll let you back in in a minute.
	So I'm just trying to see.
	Okay, is this Derek back in?
	Okay, that's what it is.
	It doesn't work for Derek to be on this call.
	I'm very sorry.
	That just isn't working.
	So I can...
	Let me see.
	Let Ella back in because I didn't realize that was Derek coming in.
	Okay, so obviously the problem we're...
	The biggest problem we're having today is with Derek.
	Derek, yeah.
	So...
	I hope he will not try to get back in if you have a way to text him on his phone or something like that and let him know we cannot have him on the show just because of the logistics of the very big problems we're having.
	Maybe he could come on my show by himself.
	We can try maybe another technology.
	Maybe it will work better for him.
	Sometimes people have very strange things go on with their computers as well.
	Okay, well, I myself have been targeted, but I am a sensitive and an intuitive, and I do know, for example, when my neighborhood and when the whole area is being microwaved, I can tell When they turn harp on and that sort of thing.
	But I also know when they are aiming things at me and various things like that.
	So I have had some targeting.
	I've also been able to circumvent it to a large degree for various, you know, exercising certain things because I was, you know, I started Camelot and I've been doing this for now.
	I don't know, 11 and a half years.
	And we were prepared for that kind of thing early on.
	And also because of our whistleblower testimony was telling us about these kinds of weapons and so on.
	And of course, being Camelot, we were a centralization place where people would come.
	So people wrote to me from the very early days saying they were targeted.
	And this was happening.
	That's incredible.
	So you got some...
	Inside information early on.
	Yes.
	What year was that?
	Well, I mean, we started Camelot.
	I started it first in 2005, and then Bill joined me in 2006.
	So this is 2017.
	So however you want to say, 11 and a half years.
	But prior to that, also doing a lot of research.
	But because, again, Camelot was such...
	A centralization place.
	Even today, people write to me, I would say, almost every other day saying they're targeted and in what ways and so on and so forth.
	But I myself was aware of this sort of thing as an intuitive because I also know through...
	I know this doesn't get talked about, but I know about remote influencing.
	So you will get remote viewers who are actually Sometimes as a group of viewers, or you might even say a coven, a black magic coven, can target you.
	So targeting is actually...
	I mean, electronic is new, but the targeting idea goes back to witchcraft and voodoo and various things of this nature.
	So I was aware of that phenomena, and also, as I say, was...
	I became aware that I wasn't what you call an Earth-sensitive and I could sense when there would be an earthquake.
	I could also tell when the electromagnetic energy around me changes and something is going on.
	And my body, I don't appreciate this, but the sensitivity is very intense.
	So my body starts to reflect this stuff and when it's, you know, it can be very, it can be pretty disabling.
	There are things that happen where you can be completely exhausted like Matthew was saying.
	You can have a muscle, you know, Your muscles are all in pain for no reason.
	You know, you just wake up.
	You don't have the flu or anything.
	But you're suddenly in a great deal of pain.
	It's because of the electronic targeting during the night, that sort of thing.
	There are various things.
	I also...
	There are ways that people can target you.
	You felt like a knife, like feeling on your body.
	That can also be done mentally.
	It's not only...
	Through lasers and electronics and so on.
	So I sort of have a different...
	I don't know, experience with all...
	It's the same and yet different.
	It has different aspects.
	So I have heard some voice-to-skull stuff and was able to determine that that was what it was.
	I mean, I think I'm quite lucky in the sense that I also always went in nature almost every day of my life, and partially because most of my life I had a dog, so I would go walking in nature as just exercise or whatever.
	But I also began to see that there was a marked difference.
	For example, in the early days, Bill Ryan and I would go on vacation to Africa because he came from there.
	And I would see that we were out from under the matrix electronically in a major way when we went to places like that.
	And you could tell you were off the grid because you were not feeling the kinds of things you feel in cities and so on.
	So this kind of thing, you know, Matthew was also alluding to that, is something I'm also very familiar with.
	And I think it's an important component.
	For people to know about to try to safeguard themselves.
	But the targeting has certainly compounded and increased and become much more sort of group oriented, I think, a lot.
	And I'm not sure people are, you know, some people feel it and are awake and understand what's happening to them.
	Other people may just feel irritable.
	They may not know that they're being targeted.
	They may just be watching a football game like they normally do.
	But, you know, they have to drink twice as much beer to get, you know, relaxed or whatever they do, right?
	So, yeah, so I think it's an important component.
	And I think that our society, because of the electronics and because of what's going on, there's been a lot of experimentation on populations and on individuals.
	There's also an ET component, which I'm not sure whether you guys are aware of, but gray ETs can also do this and change the frequency in a room, target you, and so on, as can reptilians.
	They can erase your minds, etc.
	There may even be people that are attributing their targeting to The powers that be are somebody sitting in an office when in reality it might just be a gray that's in their room or their house or whatever it is.
	Sorry to say.
	Anyway, this kind of thing does go on.
	But to get back to everything you guys are saying...
	I guess, Ella, you say you got involved in activism.
	Can you say what you're doing in your case?
	Are you working with...
	I know Derek got cut off, but he was trying to explain some various groups he was part of and some efforts that he had made on behalf of his own activism.
	Are you involved with him?
	Did you do your own type of thing?
	And what might those things have been?
	Well, after being introduced to...
	Oh, I'm getting a little bit of an echo now.
	I'm going to mute myself, so hold on.
	Go ahead.
	So, when I first found the group, which was about a year and a half ago, through a conference call, I started connecting to individuals, and I just decided pretty much off the bat, I'd just fallen in love with this concept of people connecting on these podcasts, you know, these conference calls, and so, and of course, I listened to Derek.
	Derek has one twice a week.
	At that point, I think he had one a week, and I And so there was a movement going.
	He has done a lot of wonderful work.
	And so when I met Matthew, Matthew came into the mix.
	So I started my own podcast.
	It was called Triumph Over Targeting.
	And it was on this conference call, this group, and it became a large, large conference call.
	Some of them get, you know, 150 some nights.
	And then it goes to YouTube and you can get thousands and thousands.
	And so we were having some success.
	I started bringing people in to interview.
	And there's two gentlemen, Bill Finney and Kirk Wiebe.
	They are government whistleblowers, and I had brought them in two months after I started my podcast.
	I found them, and then I also discovered after reaching out to them that they had already been in contact with a wonderful woman, probably one of the biggest activists.
	I'm going to give her most of the credit for everything that gets done on this show.
	In this whole arena is Kate Ryan.
	She is a woman in Massachusetts and she is responsible for doing so much great work.
	She doesn't have an organization per se, but she approached Bill Benny and they were in another country and brought up target individuals and he met Magnus Olsen, who is also a very, very well known mind control victim as well as a target individual.
	And so They had further discussions about maybe creating, you know, Bill Benny believed it, and so they decided to do a symptom survey with Kate and Carla, a woman that works with Kate Ryan as well.
	And so they created this survey and they sent it out.
	So they came on to my podcast and she discusses this survey they would like to send out to all the targeted individuals because they want to validate what's going on to the rest of the world.
	And so, and the objective is to maybe, first to bring some awareness to this topic, but these two incredible men, and Bill Binney is probably, he's like my hero.
	I'm sure you know who he is, Gary.
	He's just an unbelievable person.
	I mean, if ever there was like a hero, an American hero, it would be Bill Binney.
	And everything Edward Snowden did was because of what Bill Binney did.
	He was like the original Edward Snowden.
	And there was all these great whistleblowers in the 90s, or actually just turn of the century, I'm sorry.
	And so, He's just, we're so grateful as a community to have these men on board to help us.
	And so this survey went out to, you know, hundreds of targeted individuals.
	And so, and the deadline was just recently, actually, like a week ago or so.
	And so they're going to compile that data and make it public and hopefully get a re-education for the doctors and the mental health system.
	And, you know, because targeted individuals are treated so poorly.
	You can't go to a doctor.
	They think you're Crazy.
	They can only treat the symptoms anyways.
	You know, mental health can't even support you.
	Just across the board.
	So they're really hoping that there's going to be this opportunity now to do a re-education and also to go to the press.
	You know, of course, that's on their agenda.
	And then to go to Congress and, you know, have a congressional hearing.
	And that's the ideal situation.
	So as it starts to occur, and it's already halfway there because we've done all the surveys, this will be such a great opportunity for this to become more public.
	And so...
	Anyway, so having those guys on the podcast brought a lot of attention to the conference calls and we just kind of picked up steam from there and then I met Matthew.
	He came to the call.
	He had seen a YouTube video and I'm I'm in contact with another scientist who's also a target individual, a really incredible guy, Dr.
	Shawn Andrews.
	And so Matthew had come on the call one night and shared his testimony and his experiences.
	He'd never talked about it.
	He wrote a wonderful, I want to use the right word.
	What should I call it, Matthew?
	You should call it a long, you should call it a report.
	He did a 500 page report before he ever spoke to anybody and he just researched everything and he came on the call and so he had this idea to do an umbrella organization to kind of work unified with all the different organizations because the only way we're going to combat this is for everyone to come together and to work together in a unified group and movement and so we're really just trying to support all the different groups out there and I hope everybody can work together and And unfortunately,
	you may know this, Carrie, from speaking of the target individuals, this is a level of paranoia.
	It's very hard to trust people because you don't know if someone's set up.
	You don't know if they're there to take all your time and to give you disinformation or whatever the case may be.
	So it is hard.
	But my thought is, if they're not doing anything, That seems like a threat to the movement.
	It's okay with me.
	Like you, I'm very, very sensitive.
	And I think some of the paranoia is just that.
	We all carry justified paranoia because we've had experiences of people put in our life that are not there for genuine reasons.
	But To get back on track, it's just, I think there's some more people working together to expose this and to try to educate one another in a way that is manageable for people to understand.
	You know, we take a simplified message, or I do, because I want, you know, to be able to go next door and share this and have them believe us.
	And now I have a message that I can do that.
	But I actually think targeting is much more complicated than the message I give.
	But I kind of look at it as, we're teaching a language.
	You know, so I want to give them the ABCs, you know, to start.
	Kind of work them into it.
	Because most people, like myself, I had never heard the term target individual.
	I didn't know that, you know, and this is another topic we should touch upon, you know, that there is government involvement sometimes.
	There's retaliation not only from individuals, from criminal groups, and these criminal groups that are also associated with the government.
	And so, and even in my case, even though this is an individual, I see black cop helicopters all the time.
	In action, when I'm walking with my children, I can look up and it's hovering above my head.
	So this might be some subcontracting going on and that's just pure speculation.
	I don't really know.
	So...
	Anyway, so I just became, every day I just live and breathe this.
	This needs to get exposed.
	We have children.
	There's future generations coming.
	We have to do this.
	And so I live every moment as if this is my last day and I'm going to do as much as I can in one day.
	You know, I've got to put, you know, I have targeting, I have family, we have everything else going on.
	But there's such an incredible group of people out there caring and loving Wonderful and you know some of the I've made friendships out of this that I can't I would never would have been a normal that's the silver lining of this all is the relationships that you develop out of this and we recently had a conference and maybe Matthew can touch upon that was our first annual unity and hope conference for target individuals and it was a huge success and Derek was there as well he presented and Matthew was there so do you want to touch upon that because that was a huge success Okay,
	that's great.
	I just want to draw people's attention just before we move on to Matthew here.
	There's a person called Dr.
	Catherine Horton that I did a show with.
	So I'm just going to see if I can put a picture of the video here on the screen.
	And maybe it's not that easy to do.
	But if I... Try to do that.
	I'll do that while Matthew's talking.
	So I just want you to be aware that she's in Europe, as is your other individuals.
	Melanie Berchan.
	Melanie, yeah, who I've interviewed Melanie actually several times.
	And I think Magnus was on one of the shows with Melanie as well.
	But Dr.
	Katherine Horton is someone that I think perhaps Matthew might be interested in communicating with her.
	Because she is a similar person like you.
	In her case, she worked for CERN and became a targeted individual after leaving CERN. But because she was a scientist, she was able to sort of observe her own reactions to the targeting and also document that.
	So that video is on my website, on my YouTube channel.
	You just do a search under Horton, H-O-R-T-O-N. We're a step ahead of you.
	We're in contact.
	I've interviewed her twice, and I think I'm going to be interviewing her Friday with Melanie, and I'm not sure if you know what's going on with her.
	It's just a heart-wrenching thing about her and her child was taken from her, and so we're going to hopefully things work out.
	It's going to be Alfred Lamont Weaver.
	It's And it's going to be Melanie.
	In my heart, the whole community, our heart just goes out to Melanie.
	It's just heartbreaking.
	I just get chills thinking about it.
	So the focus of the community really has been on Melanie as of the past week.
	We're all rooting for her and for her baby and we're trying to support her and raise money so she can get her input back as soon as possible.
	Okay, great.
	So Matthew, just also encouraging you to maybe get in touch with Catherine if you're so moved.
	So do you want to talk about, I guess, maybe a little bit about the conference and, you know, have you gotten any Because this information is good, but it is not really necessarily getting to the root of the problem.
	As you can appreciate, the people are being targeted.
	This is coming from the victims.
	It's not coming from the perpetrators.
	So it is important that we go in that direction.
	So...
	As a scientist, there may be ways you can make connections with certain people to go down those roads to get more information about just how these things are happening and who's involved.
	But I don't know if you've been able to do that.
	So can you elaborate on that?
	And then perhaps also the conference that Ella was suggesting you speak about.
	Sure.
	Yes, we...
	We have a big challenge in front of us, so I'll just speak on these different topics that you just mentioned.
	So I have a lot of respect for Katherine Horton.
	I have spoken with her briefly on Ella's call.
	I know she's very busy, so I haven't yet done a brainstorming session with her.
	That day may come, but it's like we're...
	She and I and Ella were kind of busy in different directions, but certainly I have a lot of respect for her.
	And I'm really encouraged to know that there are multiple people on different continents and in different countries and in different parts of our country that are starting to work on this.
	I've only been in the community a short time, but it feels like there's momentum in the right direction.
	I would like to also mention Mr.
	Terukatsu Ishibashi from Japan.
	He's the president of Asia's largest activist and human rights group for targeting.
	He happens to be in Japan.
	I'm in touch with him.
	And he has sent a bunch of testimonial videos translated into English from Japanese people that I'm going to try to put into a video.
	And I'll say a couple words on the conference.
	Actually, I'll start by saying in terms of how do we tackle this problem.
	Actually, I am a scientist.
	I think scientifically.
	But I've come to the conclusion that it's really grassroots culture that's going to be our biggest asset here.
	And we have movement in that direction.
	But basically, we just need to hit a critical mass of people In the culture that need to be talking about and concerned about this issue.
	Because tackling it technologically is very difficult unless you get the weight of the FBI. And individuals have an almost impossible time tackling this.
	We need government institutions, social institutions, and to be involved with all of their resources To tackle this problem.
	The only way that's going to happen is if there's enough of a cultural voice demanding that this happens.
	So I see the real effort that's going to pay off is going to be movement where targeted individuals get out of their own communities and reach out to the non-targeted society and get cultural change.
	So there was this conference, and at the conference, the conference was a really big success.
	That was two weekends ago.
	But it was mostly targeted people at the conference.
	However, some of the people did bring their loved ones who were being introduced to this issue, and I think maybe getting moved by the fact that there's this whole community of people there, and many of them are speaking in a way that's down to earth about this subject.
	There was also...
	One person, a journalist that was there, so that was encouraging.
	But what I'm really excited about is a week after the conference, last weekend, there was an event in Pittsburgh where some local artist did an art show that was dedicated to this topic, and it was highlighting actor and filmmaker and artist Stephen Schellen.
	I wanted to cover that event and make a video on it, but I also need...
	I can't do that because the people at the event were not ready to have their stories openly told, and I respect that.
	But I was really encouraged to see, really, their art and culture are going to play a big role, if that makes sense.
	We're going to keep thinking about this scientifically, And I will say that I can't say much on this, but there's also a class action lawsuit that I know about that I'm one of the plaintiffs of.
	And the effort in that lawsuit, which I can't really get details on, but that lawsuit is aimed at the police for not assisting targets.
	And I think that's an effective strategy.
	We can't really go after the perpetrators, but we've also been let down by social institutions And, in fact, we pay their salaries to keep the public safe, to protect human rights, and to protect the rule of law.
	And when we're let down, we know, we can point the finger.
	In fact, not only have they let us down, they sometimes move to incarcerate victims in psychiatric hospitals.
	And that is just, that is such a human rights violation.
	So there's all these different movements.
	I think we still have a tough road ahead, but I see culture and grassroots as being where we might get the biggest payoffs.
	Okay.
	What I want to do is, we've been going for a while here, and I wanted to give the audience, we have a chat room alongside the show, and so if you have a question, if you could put your question in all caps, and then I will try to see your questions and speak your question out here to the audience, and then we can get our guests to answer your questions.
	If you're interested in having some questions answered.
	So I'm just opening up the floor for that.
	And then in the meanwhile, perhaps we can also talk a little bit about, let's see, Ella, in terms of your own experience, And Matthew can address this as well.
	So the solutions that you are going through to protect yourself, because I think that that's usually a very common question that I get all the time.
	And so I'm sure people would be happy to hear the things that you're doing.
	And I guess there is a question in the chat.
	Along with that, people want to know as to why you think you're being targeted.
	So I kind of already asked Matthew that question, and he had a very specific answer.
	It is interesting whether the targeting continues and whether it's very focused.
	Usually, I can say this, that I've interviewed a lot of people who have Claim to be targeted, sometimes in the midst of other testimonies, so they're not...
	It doesn't say targeted individual on their video, but they will say to me that since they did such and such, they took an action in public.
	And Dr.
	Catherine Horton apparently...
	Attended a trial actually in the UK. She thinks that's the place that her targeting, at least last time I talked to her, that she said that that was where it started for her.
	And you, Matthew, have said that you specifically got involved in a sort of a community where some kind of targeting seemed to be going on and then you protested against it.
	And then you became targeted.
	So, in other words, to answer the question in the chat, in your case, Ella, it appears that you were targeted certainly by one rich man, but one assumes perhaps your targeting goes beyond that at this point.
	So, you know, do you feel it's because of your activism at this point or you do want to elaborate on that?
	Well, because I really think it's here to be a lifelong or a result.
	Sometimes these people targeting have an objective.
	I know a woman...
	Her ex-husband paid to have her targeted.
	When she gave up custody to the children, she was no longer targeted, which has recently become targeted by trying to help Brian Coffrin, who we discussed before.
	And so sometimes just by, you know, she put herself in a situation where she became targeted.
	Hopefully she won't be targeted any longer now that he's no longer there.
	But in my case...
	You know, you just know when you put the pieces together, you know, if I think, maybe I'm not listening to, not hearing the question right.
	So in 2004 is when I know that this person was starting to follow me when he started surveilling me.
	And so, but I knew I was, I would say that targeting overtly started in 2011 because all of a sudden I had people following me around.
	So that would be a good indicator that that was targeting.
	And then the electronic devices and the B2K. So did I answer the question?
	No, not exactly.
	The question that I was seeing in the chat and relating here was they want to know why you're targeted.
	In your case, anyone can understand people becoming infatuated with somebody and then targeting them.
	That's You called it gang stalking.
	That kind of obsession, somebody becomes obsessed with somebody else.
	That's understandable.
	But in a more general way, if you felt that you were being targeted beyond that individual for other reasons and that sort of thing.
	And this kind of gets into the idea of whether or not you are...
	For example, in my case, of course, it's a political targeting because I'm basically going up against the system in the kind of whistleblowers I bring to the fore, etc.
	So whether or not you're feeling that same kind of targeting as a result of the work you do and also the other people that you've encountered, and that goes for Matthew as well, people you're encountering They feel they're targeted for what reason like the reason they're targeted and in my case as I was kind of saying in the question that a lot of people come to me saying they did something like Katherine Horton attended a trial As a certain kind of
	person who is a CERN, you know, ex-CERN employee, whatever, or current, I can't remember whether she worked for the company at that time, and then got targeted from then on as a result of placing herself in a position.
	I understand.
	Yeah.
	So for me, maybe I failed to mention that I took great action.
	Once I realized that I was being surveilled by this gentleman, I went to the FBI. I called up his wife.
	I did all these things.
	So it became retaliatory.
	And in the process of doing activism, I can't say...
	I believe there's more groups interested in me now.
	I don't think it's just this man in his independent group or whoever he's paying to do this to me because I have interference like you wouldn't believe.
	I can't even have a conversation on the phone.
	So I do think that I'm being watched by multiple groups.
	It's unbelievable.
	So...
	I don't know if my targeting is worse because I'm doing activism.
	I just think it was part of the original plan.
	I think that these were the stages I was going to go through, and it's just a progressive thing in my particular case.
	If I look at the past decade or so and look at what's happened, and since 2011 when it became overt, it just seems progressive in my case.
	But who knows?
	Maybe there's other groups that are also doing this to me because it's a very, very high level with me.
	It's very high.
	But again, I don't want to attribute that to doing activism.
	I'm I think the physical stuff is just part of the original plan.
	They want to take you down.
	It's a slow kill.
	They want to destroy your life, every aspect of it.
	They were unsuccessful in some areas.
	When I came to my family, there were things that were set up to appear a certain way and almost dissolved my family, but we were able to get through it.
	It's hard to say.
	I can't clearly see Who's doing what to me?
	You know, this is an invisible crime.
	And so, but I think, regardless if my activism is playing a part or role in the targeting that I get, I'm still going to do it.
	You know, someone's got to do it.
	You know, I have children in this house, and I don't want them to grow up in this world.
	You know, so I'm going to continue to talk.
	I think talking got me into trouble.
	That's what it is.
	I talked to everybody once I found out.
	Okay.
	So in the case of you, Matthew, do you want to say, you know, again, I think what happens, there seems to be at least the audience listening kind of wants to also see the perpetrators of the targeting.
	There can be an individual, again, or sort of small, I guess, group of like a gang, if you want to call it that, but the targets.
	So whether they have very sophisticated equipment or not is certainly, I think, open to discussion, because I question that myself.
	But, of course, if you have somebody who's very wealthy, they have access to high-tech weapons and people that operate them.
	But, for example, Matthew, in your case, you did speak of a specific situation you were in.
	You got out of that situation and You say you moved from Canada to the, if I understood it correctly, to the U.S. And that you haven't been targeted since then.
	And so you actually got away from a very specific group that were targeting you.
	And they were a neighborhood group.
	Is that what you were kind of trying to say?
	It was way more extensive than a neighborhood group.
	It was a community group.
	And in fact, because it...
	Followed me seamlessly to Seattle.
	It actually seemed to be like a Pacific Northwest group.
	It's very easy for people to pass across the border with small versions of these devices because they essentially just look like electronics.
	That's my feeling.
	So a neighborhood group would be downplaying.
	It's out of control in Vancouver, British Columbia.
	I am in touch with many People who have been victimized in Vancouver.
	But to your point about the sophistication of the weapons...
	Well, before you go there, you say it's out of control in Vancouver.
	And I'm wondering, what are you saying with that?
	I mean, in other words, who is responsible?
	Are you looking...
	To see the higher-ups.
	Where is this going?
	Because, you know, I know that...
	I'm sorry, I don't have his whole name.
	Brian Kofron, is that his name?
	Was the person who I think I was contacted about, but then he hasn't been able to come on the show for whatever reason.
	He was made homeless, according to the story, if I understand it correctly.
	And then targeted because of certain things he did, again.
	But in other words, it appears to be institutionalized in some cases, and it also goes, you know, in terms of it could be, even the police could be involved as far as turning their back.
	On individuals who are being targeted.
	I can say that again, the gray ET aspect of this is also involves, you know, the military, the MyLab situation, and so on.
	So there's that aspect.
	There's also the secret government And the experimentation as Ella was talking about with the paperclip Nazis, the mind control.
	This is a...
	Targeting is also...
	You can't divorce it, in my view, from mind control.
	The effort, in other words, to damage a person or to attack a person is involved with a kind of...
	You might even call it a Pavlovian approach to treating the person like they're a guinea pig and that they are an experimental subject and therefore if you do this they do that and you may get this result and this is a scientific exercise on the part of the people that are targeting doing the targeting and I was targeted I was hit with with a scalar weapon at one point I was Told by four separate psychics who weren't in contact with each other.
	It came from an underground base in Oakland that I was specifically targeted, you know, that it came from what one might say is a secret government.
	I was trying to interview a certain witness, and I was on the way to see that witness, and I was hit by a very, in the middle of the night, some kind of very heavy-duty person.
	Scalar weapon on the right side of the head and so on and so forth.
	And I know that Rents was run off the road.
	Actually, we were both targeted at the exact same time during the same night.
	I don't know what was going on with that.
	And he ran off the road and was hospitalized in his case.
	So, in other words, there's the government or secret government side of this.
	In your case, you're talking about Vancouver and And you're saying it's prevalent there, but where are you seeing it?
	If you look above, if you follow the trail or as much as you have, have you tried to see where it might be coming from?
	What's going on in Vancouver that this would be across the board?
	Well, I can give informed speculations on that, but I did make some relevant observations.
	I And I will say these as allegations because, you know, I have all these little observations that I make, but they're not going to stand up as proof.
	But in my opinion, and I stand behind these allegations, there were some police officers were directly involved, not just turning a blind eye, but were directly involved in the targeting.
	There were a whole cluster of paramedics in the In St.
	Paul's Hospital who were actually using electronic devices on me inside the hospital.
	And then this building across the alley from my apartment was 1190 Hornby Street.
	It turns out to have the HR department of Providence Healthcare, which runs the hospital.
	And I... I know that the person who owns that building, I have a photograph of that person on the roof of the building with people that I recognize as part of the stalking network.
	So it seems to be a criminal elite that is running this program, and probably for any number of racketeering purposes, And I can't say with certainty, but my speculations could be anything from keeping those hospital beds full in the psychiatric ward of the local hospital because in Vancouver, who's being defrauded there?
	It's the provincial government and ultimately the taxpayers who are paying for the provincial-provided health care.
	That's who would compensate the hospital for having those psychiatric beds full.
	And that's fraud.
	And that's racketeering.
	And what about the notion that you're talking about a hospital?
	So there's also the aspect of, again, this is addressing the chat and the chat question in an overall way, but it's logical to think that big pharma may be involved because what do people do when they feel targeted?
	Maybe aware people like you guys don't resort to drugs and drink and all kinds of so-called big pharmaceuticals, but certainly that has always been a motivation of companies such as one would think Monsanto and other companies as well.
	Has that occurred to you?
	Absolutely.
	There's any number of routes to Pervasive racketeering and organized crime.
	We can't rule out the involvement of pockets of government but I work for a government agency and I feel that the majority of the government is not aware of this problem and if we could get them to understand this problem they would be They would be appalled by this problem because this is a very destructive problem.
	But there's a lot of reason to believe that secret government programs might have kick-started this.
	But now I believe that this concept and homemade versions of these devices are now being used in any number of ways by different groups.
	And so there is not one program.
	It's basically now a criminal issue that's That's manifesting in a variety of ways.
	That's my personal view.
	Okay.
	Okay, Ella, did you want to address those questions at all from your point of view?
	That's okay.
	I'm sorry.
	I was distracted.
	I was reading the chat, so I'm sorry.
	I'll just...
	Oh, okay.
	I don't advise reading the chat because, unfortunately, we don't have mods, any moderators for the chat.
	So there's a lot of targeting going on in the chat and a lot of trolls.
	And there are good people in there as well.
	But, unfortunately, I can't pay somebody.
	Of course not.
	Yeah.
	So on.
	I do think...
	You know, I'm not sure if the question was exactly.
	Well, the question has to do with the higher levels of why people are targeting.
	The end game, as someone put it in the chat, they're interested in that.
	Really seeing what you think, if you've done an investigation or you've had people come to you and talk about this, where they think it's coming from and why.
	Well, Matthew and I devied a little bit in our opinion in this way.
	I do think that they are wanting to know what's on.
	It's almost control.
	I think they want control over humanity, over our thoughts, our influencing, our purchasing power.
	How to influence us to purchase certain items or whatever the case may be.
	So I do think that there is experimentation in some regards.
	They want to basically steer humanity is what I think it is.
	But as far as some of these harder targeting cases, I think it's just a way to make someone...
	Like I said, I think that in my case, they just want my life to be very difficult.
	They want...
	They want you to suffer.
	Unfortunately, that's what a lot of this is.
	These are retaliatory.
	This is criminal.
	This is such a criminal element.
	Whether it's the government or whether there's these rogue groups, it's still criminal.
	I think there's no one answer, but I would say on the broader spectrum, when you get into these high-tech groups, like I suspect involved with me, I think they are...
	They are trying to influence humanity as a whole.
	Okay.
	Thank you for that.
	As far as the people that are in the chat, I really haven't seen any other questions.
	I'm trying to scan for the questions.
	Maybe what we could do at this point is...
	Someone's asking, Dr.
	Aaron, something about technologies associated with patents being used today.
	I'm not sure whether you are familiar with that, but did you want to speak to that?
	I have come across patented technology that was relevant to me.
	As I briefly mentioned before, I discovered these beam marks that were sort of burned into my window.
	And that matched what's called a concentric ring resonator, a patent for a concentric ring resonator, which was actually based on or co-sponsored by the Department of the Army.
	Go figure there.
	But when it comes to Patents, some people in the community feel we have to be careful using patents to try to support our claims because things can be patented that don't actually have working devices.
	Now, I bet if you go digging around in patents, once the investigations that we hope are coming, we will find the patents that relate to how we're being targeted.
	But it's really hard to identify those from the victim's side because we just don't have enough information.
	I realize that was a vague answer, but I'm kind of giving a yes and no answer.
	There will be information in patents because people, what they're doing for sure is they're victimizing us with technology, but they're also making money off that technology at the same time.
	That's another thing that there's a lot of money to be made because we all know that whether it's in the deep state or one of these dark operations, You know, they need to be spending money, you know.
	So, you know, we might be on terrorist lists.
	You know, there might be groups of people that are targeting individuals who may be considered terrorists.
	You know, you need to be spending money to get more money in.
	There's a lot of money to be made.
	You know, they have to spend that money somehow.
	And so, I think a lot of this is defense spending and it's like people who are putting on the terrorist watch list.
	As far as the patents go, I mean, I thought, and maybe you can correct me on this, I thought they could make a patent unless they had a prototype.
	Am I wrong, Matthew?
	It's not really my area of expertise.
	I think there's some wiggle room on that.
	You have to demonstrate a sufficient...
	Amount of the working concept, but it's not really my area of expertise.
	Okay.
	What I'd like to do at this point is, we need to close the show down.
	Because I try to keep things under two hours, if at all possible, humanly.
	So can you each give me some closing statements?
	Why don't we start with Ella?
	Why don't you give us a few closing statements, anything that you want to talk about?
	And also, again, please do give the information about the upcoming show that you're going to be doing as well.
	Okay, great.
	Number one, I wanted to give Alice in Ireland credit for that conference.
	She did that single-handedly, so I'm just going to give her name out, put it out there, because she did an amazing job in this conference.
	So I think the most important thing is...
	You know, public awareness is the key to bringing this whole program down, all the various aspects of it.
	We have got to educate the public, whether it be handing out flyers, whether we do things like this, what we're doing right now, doing interviews.
	Anything we can do to bring public awareness is...
	I personally feel is what's going to bring this down.
	People need to know.
	People are not going to be outraged if they know nothing about it.
	I think the public at large would be...
	I'm outraged if they knew that was happening to citizens.
	I mean, just outraged.
	This is just so criminal.
	It is literally, I've heard it referred to as a concentration camp.
	It is.
	Anyone who's experiencing this would agree with that.
	Of course, the concentration camp was horrible, but that's what it is.
	You're living in a virtual concentration camp.
	You can't get out of it.
	And it's heinous on every level.
	And then...
	So, the other thing I want to say is, if you're a non-TI, what you can do for us is have these discussions.
	You know, there's a lot of great information.
	You know, there's a lot of information that's not so great out there, because again, this is such a broad subject, but if you're a non-TI, please have conversations with people about this topic.
	It is real.
	I'm telling you, I've talked to thousands of people.
	I myself am experiencing it.
	This is real.
	This is very real.
	If you ever hear someone say that they're a targeted individual, Listen to them.
	You know, we all guess how it's happening, what methods are being used, whether it's being, you know, if Wi-Fi is sending the signals or cell phones or someone's device or satellites, you know, we can only speculate that.
	But this is happening.
	That is important.
	So, you know, if you think how it's happening to them, just listen to their message because there are people hurting people and making money off us.
	So that's just something.
	So please, I encourage everybody to have this discussion And you'll be helping out humanity at a great level.
	And then also, if you guys want to come Friday, hopefully it'll work out with these three great people coming on to talk about Melanie, Richan, and talking about trying to get her baby back to her.
	So it's Whistleblower Nation.
	It's at TruthSlips.com.
	It's on Revolution Radio.
	And it's at Fridays, 6 p.m.
	Eastern Standard Time, 3 o'clock Friday.
	3 o'clock p.m.
	Pacific Standard Time.
	And I also have a channel, Ella Free channel.
	It's on YouTube.
	Lots and lots and lots of targeted individuals, testimonies, and people like Matthew and scientists and doctors and psychologists and lots of great advice.
	So you can always check it out there.
	And on the YouTube channel, you can also find how to join us live.
	We're live every Tuesday and Thursday.
	You can come on the call and talk to people and connect.
	And there you have it.
	Okay.
	Well, thank you very much, Ella.
	And so, Matthew, do you have some parting remarks and possibly also maybe talk about anything where you might be appearing in the future and that sort of thing?
	Okay, great.
	Yeah, I have a few different comments.
	And first I'd like to make a plea to the normal state.
	So we have the deep state, which we might think, you know, is not...
	I mean, it's absolutely not serving the people and the Constitution.
	It's basically pockets of criminals that are after power.
	And then we have the regular state.
	And eventually we will need to appeal and get the help of institutions because this is a massive problem.
	And if you are part of the government and you happen to be listening to this, I would like you to consider The cost of this problem.
	This is a massive problem that has hidden costs and if not taken care of, if a crime like this continues to grow powerful, it will completely rip our country apart.
	So this is a serious issue and it's not something that should be neglected just because it's difficult or looks bad politically.
	And then I would like to echo Ella's comments that I basically see Our biggest movement as being from the grassroots up and culturally and to non-targets and to young people, I would like to say get on board with this.
	This is actually An underground, edgy issue that will be like...
	It's actually a cool issue.
	It's not just an issue that the tinfoil hat-wearing people are talking about, something to not talk about.
	This is something that you can get on board with.
	And I'd like to give props out to the people in Pittsburgh who put on the art show, because basically, this happened last weekend.
	That's the approach they took.
	And as we see more of this, I think...
	This won't be an issue that is shameful to talk about.
	This will soon become an issue that is all the rage to talk about.
	And I hope we get movement in that direction.
	And I'd like to give props to one of our best grassroots activists.
	His name is Terry Brewer.
	I love Terry, yes.
	He works with Ella to a certain degree, but he has his own website, Stopgangstalkingcrimes.com and this man hits the pavement and talks to people and passes out flyers and Terry's example and to an extent my example, I wear my targeted individual shirt around in public.
	I talk about this a lot.
	I even talked about this to colleagues at my work.
	At a government agency, I have to do so carefully.
	There's a strategy to doing that, but it is safe to talk about this.
	Terry is empowered by talking about this.
	In fact, he's actually caused his stalking to go down.
	I'm not targeted.
	I may become targeted because I'm being very vocal about this.
	I'm expecting targeting to start.
	I'm being also very careful But the point is that I'm being very vocal about this and I'm not being thrown into a psychiatric hospital.
	I'm not losing my job.
	So this is an issue that we can start talking about.
	Yes, just intelligently.
	One more comment is that the Hope and Unity Conference, the first annual Hope and Unity Conference, actually the Unity and Hope Conference, which happened two weekends ago, this is an event that we're going to do Every year.
	And it's probably going to be in October.
	And as we do this event and as it grows, this will also make a big contribution.
	Alice in Ireland gets a whole lot of credit for organizing this.
	But we should already be looking towards the second one, October 2018.
	And as you can imagine, a conference, which might even become a convention, growing every year when it gets to the point of having like 500 people attending.
	It will get media coverage.
	It will be hard for politicians to ignore.
	So I see movement on many fronts.
	Now, as for me, I don't have any more planned appearances.
	I'm kind of an activism partner with Ella.
	I'm editing a lot of videos.
	And I love opportunities like this to speak.
	So thank you for inviting me on the show.
	I really appreciate it.
	I'm going to continue to be vocal and I have some secret activism projects that I will reveal once I know that those are going to become serious.
	One quick thing, Keri.
	If there's someone listening and you're targeted, you can come to the...
	Matthew and I and several other people have the freedomfortargetedindividuals.org.
	That's the site.
	It says freedomfortargetedindividuals.org.
	On there, you can find every call, every group, all around the world, so you can connect with people because I think that's part of the solution.
	There's the shielding aspects, but there's also connecting with people.
	By connecting, you can get all the information you need.
	And don't be afraid.
	Don't let fear drive you away from doing the things that we need to do, no matter what it is.
	And thank you, Carrie, for having a venue like this and for doing what you do.
	You know, you put yourself out there and you're at risk yourself.
	So I'm really appreciative of you and what you do and your work.
	Thank you.
	Thank you very much.
	And if I could say one more quick thing, just because Derek was supposed to be part of this call and it was unfortunate that he dropped off.
	But I believe Derek's organization...
	Between Derek and our organization, Freedom for Targeted Individuals, we can put you in touch with, if you're new as a new victim, we can put you in touch with someone from your state.
	I know that PAX International is making a push towards having a representative from each state, but between those two organizations, the community of victim activists has grown really large, and we're A lot more effective than before I joined.
	I mean, it's been growing more effective every five years, and I see it as a pretty professional endeavor at this point.
	Yes.
	Okay.
	Very good.
	All right.
	Well, thank you for both of you, and please pass on thanks to Derek, and I'm sorry that he didn't get to spend as much time We can try to have him back in the future and also revisit this topic in the future as well.
	So thanks everyone for listening.
	I'm going to close this window down and say goodnight, alright?
	Goodnight everybody.
	Thank you very much.
	Thank you.
	Alright, goodnight.
	And so that's the show for tonight and thanks everyone for listening.
	Just want to let people know that tomorrow night I'm going to be doing a roundtable It's going to be with Cliff High and Paladin and myself, and we're going to be discussing the cryptocurrencies, whether or not they can be controlled.
	And some of the tech behind that and what's really exploding in those areas.
	That includes IOTA as well, you know, and the Internet of Things as they call it.
	And we will also look into AI and hopefully the quantum aspect of all of this and the changes in the financial system.
	So that's tomorrow night at 7 p.m.
	So thanks for watching and have a great night.
	Take care.

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