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April 13, 2017 - Project Camelot

03:25:23

DAVID ADAIR - RE ALIEN TECH TWO

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	Hi, everyone.
	This is Carrie Cassidy from Project Camelot, and we are actually waiting for David Adair.
	I know that we are scheduled for tonight, so my partner is calling him and trying to reach him on his regular phone.
	I don't know if something happened.
	I don't know what's going on, but just thought I'd come online and just...
	Tell you, and I guess I can talk about some of the things going on with Camelot in the meanwhile while we're waiting for David, and hopefully he will show up.
	So basically just want to say that I have almost finished editing the John Lear, and it's going to be fascinating for people.
	And then, as everyone knows, I've also been working on the Mark Richards series, And I'm going to be recording that transcript, so to speak, that I've put together.
	And that's quite an involved task to, you know, do my total recall, to get it all down on paper, and then to actually present it to you so you have both a video transcript and a written one.
	So that's what's going on with that.
	Let's see, what else can I tell you?
	I am trying to get Jack Sarfati on the show.
	He's a very interesting physicist.
	And so we're waiting to find out if that can be scheduled sometime soon.
	I know he goes between England and America because he has an English partner, I believe.
	So I don't know if we are having any luck getting David.
	What's going on?
	No.
	He didn't answer his phone.
	Computer virus.
	He can't do it.
	He can't do it?
	No.
	You're kidding.
	Oh, no.
	He just told you that?
	Yeah.
	Is it on the phone?
	If the phone will work, he'll do it over the phone.
	Oh, well then let's do that.
	No problem.
	That's absolutely no problem.
	If the phone will stay, I... Hello?
	Cool.
	Oh.
	I don't know if this phone will stay online.
	I'm going live right now, so...
	Hello?
	I'm losing the connection.
	My phone's not going to connect.
	It's just unbelievable.
	Where my apartment is is not a good location for phone calls, but I can call him using my Skype.
	So if everyone will stand by, that's what I'll do, because his phone is obviously not going to work for me.
	There's some kind of interference where I live for my cell phone.
	Right.
	So bear with me and I'll mute myself.
	Thank you.
	Come to find out, it was done by the people that put up the firewalls for me.
	Oh, really?
	Yeah, something y'all should be aware of is a company called Avast.
	Okay.
	And they have a new owner.
	And what they're doing is they called me up and asked me, said, your computer's infected with the virus, we can fix it for you.
	And I went, really?
	Really?
	And it was.
	And I said, how do you know I have a virus?
	And it's what it is.
	They injected the virus through the tunnel they established through their software so they can make more money.
	And I called Better Business Bureau and they got thousands of complaints.
	Oh, wow.
	Watch out for that particular group.
	It's not the original owner.
	It's called a BAS, A-B-A-S-T. Okay.
	And I used to have them for years, but...
	Now they're tunneling into your computer and introducing Trojan horses.
	Okay.
	Very, very strange.
	Well, I mean...
	Make more money that way.
	So I'm glad to have you here anyway on the show.
	You know, we have an audience and they've been standing by waiting for you.
	So I'm sorry that there was a mix-up also, I guess, regarding time or something like that.
	Yeah, so we're good.
	My calendar here, 10 p.m.
	Now, I'm Eastern Standard Time, and what time zone are you in?
	California, so yeah.
	So isn't it 10 p.m.?
	It is.
	It's 10 after 10 here.
	All right, good enough.
	We're just starting here, so that would be the right time.
	All right, well, we're good.
	Okay.
	Okay.
	You know, you asked me, or you made a comment about something I was telling you about, I believe it was you, was talking about the moon, and we left packages up there of instruments, and I believe you said, why couldn't we do that remotely?
	Was that you?
	No, that wasn't me, but it's okay.
	You can answer that question anyway.
	Well, it was a great question.
	People, you know, question whether we went to the moon or not, and...
	I've heard this so many times and I just had to go back over some historical stuff I have that I'm sure very few people today are aware of with the lunar pilot landing.
	I was there firsthand with all this stuff.
	I was a teenager but I got to see a lot of this stuff and just the size of the program was amazing.
	You know, if we're going to fake something, Why in God's name did we build all that we built down there at Kennedy Space Center?
	I had forgotten about some of the size and volumes and stuff.
	The vehicle assembly building where we would assemble the Apollo moon rocket in, that thing is so big in volume, you could take five United Nations buildings, roll them up, put them inside that building and be 100 feet away from the walls.
	That's how much volume it is.
	You just can't imagine the size of everything that we dealt with down there, how big it was.
	The building itself was so big that there was an 8-acre roof.
	That's huge.
	It was so tall at 512 feet that if we didn't have special air conditioning system, clouds would form in the top of the building and rain inside.
	Right.
	That's awesome.
	You know, it's just amazing.
	And then you get into the size of the vehicles and the weights and everything.
	You know, people are interested in me, you know, seem to know a little bit about rockets.
	Well, let me tell you something about these rocket engines, the Saturn F1 engines.
	They're fuel pumps.
	I stood there and watched them work.
	Now, you wouldn't think fuel pumps would be very interesting.
	Well, these fuel pumps are moving kerosene and liquid oxygen at a rate of 5,000 gallons per second.
	Now, a gallon weighs 9 pounds.
	That's 45,000 pounds of fuel you're sucking in per second.
	And to give you an idea, they would burn for two minutes on the first stage.
	In those two minutes, we would consume 54 railroad tank cars of fuel.
	Can you imagine that?
	That's incredible, yeah.
	And we're burning up over 2,100 tons of propellant.
	People just can't get your head around something so bad.
	And these things did all that.
	I stood right there and watched them check out in test stands in Alabama and then went to the Cape and it launched.
	And it's just really amazing to think, people, we didn't do any of this stuff.
	And I stood right there and watched all this stuff being built.
	The transporter that you saw transporting the space shuttle.
	Well, it was originally built to transport the Saturn V. When the Saturn V was fully loaded, it weighed 6 million pounds.
	And it sat on top of the transporter and with the umbilical tower, the weight of the tower and the rocket and the transporter, that's a 12 million pound load that you're moving At a rate of one mile per hour for three miles down to the causeway to the pad.
	And just to give you an idea of the tracks on the transporter, the nut and bolts that hold the track on, the bolt weighs 150 pounds and the nuts weigh 75 pounds.
	And this whole thing was designed by a woman.
	Oh, right.
	So, a lot of stuff in history that you just pass over and don't think about.
	And so the thought that we would fake something like that, I mean, look at the size and the weight of stuff we had to build.
	And then comes a SLEP. Do you know what a SLEP is?
	No.
	That's the upload lunar surface experiments package.
	There was one left at each landing site.
	Now inside that SLEP, you had a lunar seismic experiment, you had a triaxus That is where we would measure the moon's internal magnetic field and the solar wind.
	We had a solar wind experiment.
	We had an ion detector and we had a lunar heat flow measurement.
	That was really interesting.
	The instrument measured the outflow of heat from the moon's interior.
	We have a low energy solar wind experiment and we had a lunar, active lunar seismic experiment.
	Well, David, I just want to ask you, though, because, you know, I have this witness, William Tompkins, who claims he was actually in a sort of an underground location in California, listening live to them, you know, landing on the moon and the whole thing.
	And he heard over the audio, this has been reported, I don't know if you've heard it, you know, that, I guess it was Neil Armstrong exclaiming over the craft that were already there looking at them.
	And I have a picture, or he drew a picture.
	It's on the internet.
	You can see the rim with the craft.
	And he said the reptilians were actually standing outside their craft waiting for them, you know, the astronauts to land.
	And so I'm just wondering if you heard that story.
	And William Tompkins, who's a disclosure witness out there that I interviewed, is talking about this.
	So have you ever heard that?
	I've heard of it, yeah.
	And it's, well, maybe you would like to hear this then.
	All right.
	I always try to avoid this in conversation because it just becomes awkward and But this would be a good time to bring it up.
	I always take the question at dinner when they start going around the room and asking, where were you when Neil walked on the moon?
	And almost everybody's called flashbulb memory.
	You know where you were when you saw those first images of them walking on the moon.
	Well, they get to me and I have a choice.
	Either A, lie, or B, tell the truth.
	Now, lying would be I was sitting at home watching it on TV. The truth is a little bit more stranger.
	The truth is when Neil was walking on the moon, I was leaning back on the knees of Viola Armstrong, that's Neil's mother.
	I'm sitting leaning against her in Wapakuneta, Ohio at their home with Neil's dad, Stephen Armstrong.
	All the original seven Mercury astronauts are on the floor in front of me, and they're watching it.
	And we were just barraged by a notion of reporters and such.
	Viola Armstrong and I, we were really, really close.
	She was like my surrogate mother.
	And when Neil was sleeping on the moon that night, I was sleeping in Neil's childhood bed.
	Right.
	You can imagine.
	I mean, you know, actually, I'm sorry to interrupt you, but we did go over that in my last interview with you.
	Now, this interview, and I, you know, I love that story, so it's no worries but telling it again, but what I want to...
	I asked Neil about that incident, and Neil was just, he always had this really nice smile.
	He just smiled at me, and he said, um...
	He said, there's a lot of stories that you're going to be hearing in the future about a lot of this stuff, and he goes, a lot of it's just classified, and I'll just keep you out of it, David, I just won't tell you.
	So something, if I've known him long enough, that's the point I bring all of it up.
	I knew these people.
	You know, I knew Neil, and I could tell something was up, but he's holding something back, what it was, I have no idea.
	But...
	Do you know, this is some pertinent information, do you know why he was picked to be the first man on the moon instead of Buzz Aldrin?
	This is interesting.
	Did you know Neil's mental profile showed that he was a hermit in nature?
	When he came back from the moon, where did he go?
	He just kind of dropped out of, after a few, you know, made his rounds and tours and stuff, after that he just kind of dropped out of public view.
	That is in his nature to do so.
	And they didn't want one human being carrying the largest title around of the century, that is, First Man on the Moon.
	So they knew that he would just kind of recluse away, and he did, and he became a professor in Lebanon, Ohio, at the University of Cincinnati.
	And that's where he stayed for a long time, but he would occasionally go out to South Dakota and work with his brother who had oil, well, rigged.
	and some of the other things he did but he was pretty much out of the public view of things that's what NASA wanted they did not want him seeking publicity and he really didn't he just kind of disappeared if y'all noticed that now Buzz Aldrin was just the option he really was going after it but that's why he ends up the second man on the moon he wouldn't carry that title and when and when Neil died do you remember what they did with his body He had them cremate the ashes
	and they were scattered at sea.
	So he didn't even want a memorial to him.
	So there's really no gravesite that you can go to to see the first man on the moon.
	And that was in his nature to be that way and that's exactly what NASA wanted.
	Oh, that's very interesting.
	You know, what I wanted, you know, I just want to say, David, that remember you just went and presented your stuff over at the UFO con that was here in California, right?
	Right.
	And so last time I had you on my show, a lot of our conversation had to sort of skirt around the real story of what happened to you.
	And so tonight, I want you to tell that story.
	All about, you know, from the beginning because you have a great, you really are great in terms of telling the story because you remember all the details.
	So can you talk about how you were, I guess, you built this rocket and then you were, I don't know, you say taken against your will is how you, I've heard you word it.
	Yeah, that's exactly right.
	So can you talk about that and go all the way to where you climb on the craft and the whole nine yards?
	I can do that.
	Thank you.
	Now people ask, well, how can he do that?
	You know, it must be a national security.
	Well, that's where Strong Thurman said to me once, I was the worst loose cannon on the deck.
	What he meant by that was that at the time all this was occurring, I was...
	15, 16, and 17 years old.
	You cannot sign a minor under a national security oath.
	It's against the Constitution.
	So, I can tell you what happened.
	Just as simple.
	Now, after high school graduation, I was taken to the military and that was a second kidnapping, actually.
	And the first time I was abducted, I went to Area 51 for one day.
	About a 12-14 hour day.
	And never worked there like other people have claimed.
	I was just there one day.
	So, you know, people were just puzzled why I didn't...
	Why are you not a UFO researcher?
	Why aren't you after this?
	It was one day out of my life.
	Like, I'm going to spend my whole life and build it around one day event?
	I don't think so.
	I had a whole life going for me in corporate America, which is where I went, with science.
	But in that one day, we did do a plot, and it's how I got there is the story.
	See, people think that I was building a fusion containment rocket engine.
	Actually, that's Technically correct, but overall fundamentally that's not correct.
	That's not what I was doing.
	I'm working on a power plant.
	I'm looking for an electromagnetic fusion containment nuclear power plant.
	That's what I'm building.
	But the only way to test the fields that can have to hold the force of a nuclear chain reaction, the electromagnetic field, the only thing I could really come up with on a way to test the field I needed a medium to test it in.
	So the only thing I could come up with is a rocket engine.
	If you build an electromagnetic fusion containment rocket engine, you still have to have the same containment field that you'd have in a nuclear fire plant.
	And the easiest thing available to me at the time was just that, a rocket engine.
	And I had been working on rockets for quite a few years before I even started that part of the process.
	So let's back up.
	It's the story.
	If I bounce around, I end up sounding like Pulp Fiction, where you're out of the timeline and you wish you could just re-edit it and put everything in chronological order.
	Well, one person did that.
	That was Art Bell in 1997.
	And it took Art from 11 p.m.
	to 6 a.m.
	in the morning.
	It took him seven hours to get my story out.
	And he rearranged his program while it was going on.
	I'm canceling everything else.
	I'm just staying with this story.
	And the thing that Art noticed that it flowed in a chronological order.
	And events that happened layered upon each other causing the next set of events to happen.
	And they're all connected.
	And Art was very cool about it.
	And there were critics coming online.
	And Art had a simple reply to me.
	He said, I want to tell you all something.
	If somebody's going to lie like this, They wouldn't make a seven-hour life with tons of characters that we can check on, hundreds of details that all connect the dots together.
	I mean, you would do something that's very simple so when you repeat it, you don't make an error.
	He said, nobody can make up something like this.
	And he's quite right.
	I was doing this recall.
	So the story that Art Bell got on 1997, that's what happened.
	Let's see where we start.
	We're not going to get it all done, but I can highlight a lot of it along the way.
	And a lot of people have a tendency to want to jump straight into the area of 51.
	And I went, yeah, I can understand that, you know, for the sake of time.
	But the problem is your credibility gets stretched out to the limit because you've got to verify how it is that what happened that got you there.
	You can't just say, oh, yeah, man, I love listening to Montrovanni music as I was flying to Venus on a UFO. You know, that doesn't make sense.
	Now, if you had an existing story with all of the details that led up to that point, then you got something.
	So, with me, it started...
	I did one lecture one time.
	I started off when I was in an all-black church in Atlanta.
	I was invited there by a really, really good friend of mine named Carl McNair.
	His brother was Ron McNair, the black astronaut to Diamond Challenger.
	But I had to address this audience and I started out.
	I was born a poor black child!
	And finally somebody, the soprano singer behind me, she got busted out laughing and everybody else laughed.
	I was quoting from the movie, The Jerk, Steve Martin.
	But the thing is, I was born very poor.
	I was born to a coal miner.
	I was born in number 10 Pocahontas Coalfields in Welch, West Virginia.
	Now, three miles from where I was born is a place called Coalwood, West Virginia.
	And there was a guy born there.
	His name was Homer Hickman.
	And they did a movie about him.
	He built rockets, too.
	And they called it October Sky.
	Oh, right.
	Okay.
	Yeah.
	Well, Homer and I often laughed about that when it came to us and we said we both were born three miles from each other, looking at our lives, and we both come to the conclusion it must have been something in the water.
	Right.
	But anyway, Homer was actually 12 years older than me.
	And he couldn't play football for squat, so he got his scholarship out of there.
	I went a different route.
	But where I really started everything was in the library in Welch, West Virginia.
	I'm seven years old, and I'm over in the corner where all the science books are.
	And the pretty elderly librarian She saw me over there and she came over she goes I see you sitting here for hours every day you're reading these books I said yeah there's no pictures in them I've got to be reading them and she said really so she picked up one of these books and just off the shelf at random and she said okay this book here it's a quantum
	theory on a singularity tell me what that is And she's looking at the book and says, oh, singularity, it's also known as a black hole.
	It's what happens when you have a star that's moving through a collapse and it will move into a neutron star and they'll go beyond that, you know, condense itself down until it becomes a singularity, which is about the most powerful thing there ever is.
	And they call it a black hole because it sucks up Even light.
	X-rays can't escape it, not even light.
	So wherever one of these flat stars moves through space, you suddenly lose all the starlight from the other stars as it passes between you and the other stars.
	So it's a black hole in space, and that's how I got its name.
	She goes, you really do read this stuff?
	I said, yeah.
	She goes, well, how many of these books have you read?
	And I said, it was probably about 400 or 500 of them, I guess.
	I said, all of them?
	And she goes, you've read all of these books?
	Why are you reading them now?
	I'm going through.
	I'm correcting the mistakes.
	And she kind of had a seat on that one.
	And she said, would you like to get other books in this area?
	I said, yeah, but look where we're at.
	We're in the middle of a Pocahont's Coalfields.
	I don't think I'm going to find them.
	She said, well, if you don't tell anyone, because I'll get in trouble with use of resources, I'll order any book you want.
	So I wrote out this grocery list, and by golly, she ordered them all!
	And I got to read hundreds of books because of her.
	And that really helped because I was able to start compiling my own thoughts and everything.
	And you've got to remember, this is back there.
	This is 1961.
	So...
	In 1961, I was consuming everything it was in those areas, and it really did help quite a bit.
	And there's no such thing as internet, or sexes, or pages of modems, or any of that stuff.
	Nothing like that existed, and our internet would be an encyclopedia set.
	So, I just had to hard read stuff to gather up what I could, but it was enough.
	It allowed me to start my own rocketry research.
	And everybody thought I was just building rockets for competition or to learn about them, such as a good job that Homer did with himself with them.
	I was a little bit beyond that.
	I wasn't building them to learn from them.
	I was building them to work out theorems and see if my theorems are correct on the hypothesis that I had.
	Of theories that apply to fusion containment.
	Now, I'm only seven years old at this time, so I was really lectured to by the librarian not to tell anybody what I'm doing and what I'm reading.
	I don't think she wanted any feedback before ordering all the books, but it was why she said, don't tell anybody what you're thinking and working on.
	It's going to make it more difficult for you.
	And I think she was mean on a sociologically area, but she was right.
	Nobody's going to understand it anyhow.
	I'm going to think I'm a little freaky kid, which I was.
	But I was good at sports.
	That's what made it different, and I was able to blend in well.
	I could play really good baseball.
	I could hit the ball like crazy.
	But anyway, once I got enough there, Then a chain of events start occurring.
	It just starts correcting everything.
	It's just really amazing stuff.
	Well, you know, I want to stop you right there, David.
	I want to ask you if, you know, because later on, you have told me this story offline, and it was fascinating to listen to, and I want you to continue.
	But I want to know right now, if you look back when you were a kid, Did you feel you were in contact with something unseen or being guided when you say a series of events happened?
	Because later on you sort of intimated to me it seemed that maybe that the craft or the beings that built the craft might have been in touch with you.
	And that you even might be in touch with them now.
	So would you look back on your life and say that there was something guiding you there?
	Excellent question.
	There was something going on that I knew that we just could not pigeonhole it.
	We cannot put it in a box.
	We can't put a name or label on it.
	It wouldn't fit logically within our reasons of deduction and conclusion.
	And yeah, it's something beyond our understanding.
	Yeah, I've always felt...
	Something was out there pulling strings.
	And did you think you were unusual?
	Because, you know, it appears a librarian thought you were unusual.
	Were you at that young age?
	And I don't know how old you were exactly at that age, but maybe you can tell us.
	But, you know, were you aware that you were unusually intelligent?
	Oh, yeah.
	Even earlier, my mother even told me so.
	I was two years old.
	Actually, it was one and a half and I just learned to walk.
	I was walking and a toy of mine got away from me and it got in between the wall and the refrigerator.
	So I was standing there looking at it and my mother was watching me.
	She didn't do anything.
	So I'm looking at her and I guess she wasn't going to do anything so I've got to figure something out here.
	So I'm looking around the kitchen.
	I go over and grab this broom and I reach in Back to the back of the refrigerator, and I'll pull the toy out.
	And then I pick up the toy and take off.
	And my mother's standing there, and she tells my dad, he's not even a year and a half old.
	He's already deducted out what tool he needed.
	Went and got his toy and took off.
	And she says, my dad's name was Fred.
	He goes, Fred, there's something not right about that child.
	We've got to keep it.
	And that's one of the first...
	Things I was told that I started looking not quite a normal kid and just more things after that just went on.
	But yeah, I always knew that there was something a little bit different about me.
	I just looked at things differently.
	I felt old at times and I just seemed to Even when I play with other kids, they're going to do something to get in trouble.
	I can see it coming, and I'll tell them, we don't want to do that.
	Adults are going to get mad at us.
	They thought I was just stuffy or not wanting to do wild things.
	I said, no, I just understood.
	I guess I just had a more mature attitude on things.
	I told them, you really don't want to do that.
	You're going to get in trouble.
	That's coming from a guy that I was allowed to play with mashes, and my first rocket took off, and centered right at the yard the size of a football field, and my rocket left at about, probably reached top speed about 12,000 miles an hour, and went about 51,000 feet up, a little bit more than 10 miles.
	How old were you then?
	Let's see, that was the first serious liquid fuel, kind of cryogenic engine that I built.
	Let's see, I was...
	11 years old.
	Okay.
	So by the time you built the rocket for Area 51 or got you into Area 51, you were 17, is that right?
	Yeah, I started the designs on that particular engine design.
	I started when I was 12 and by the time I was 15, more events happened and more players get involved and I was able to start construction, and 26 and a half months later, we end up with PIFLM. That's the name of the fusion rocket that I built.
	And the word PIFLM came from my mother, who had a dream, a really cool dream.
	And she saw the name on the side of the rocket, and it said PIFLM. P-I-T-H-O-L-E-M. And it's a word that you cannot find in any known language base anywhere on the planet.
	Really?
	Yeah, it's an original word.
	Fascinating.
	Yeah, alright.
	It came from a dream.
	My mother's dream.
	So that's what I named it.
	I named it Pissom.
	And Pissom was just...
	God, it was extraordinary in the design and power.
	And it really wasn't what I was really planning on building.
	It was just, to me, it was like I built this hammer, which I call Pissom, and I'm going to use it to build something else much bigger.
	Which would be the fusion power plant.
	And that's when, you know, a ton of things happened up to this point.
	And, you know, critics, I get, they criticize crap and they haven't got a clue what you're criticizing because they don't even know the story.
	And people like Stanton Freeman, because I've investigated it.
	Oh really?
	Well, we just spent 10 years putting my documentary together and all the people we have in the film, which is all the people that, some of them are direct eyewitnesses and all the stuff we did, and I have to say, heard the name Stanton Freeman, never heard of him.
	Investigated things, why haven't these sources heard from him?
	Because he never investigated.
	He does what he blames other people doing that he does.
	He calls it Investigation by proclamation.
	Okay, well, I just heard...
	I was just listening to a Bill Cooper interview, and Bill Cooper said that Stanton Friedman was, you know, recruited by Majestic back in the day to be part of a disinfo campaign to take people off track about...
	I worked as a disinformation agent, but he's a nuclear...
	Yeah, he's got a degree in nuclear physics, and...
	But he has never worked a single day in the lab in his life.
	He's never built anything.
	Kind of odd, isn't it?
	So anyway, with me, I can show you my work.
	It's out here in my lab.
	I've been doing this stuff since I was a child.
	I have no doubt in my mind.
	I have no doubt in my mind about you.
	But why don't you tell us?
	So there was a number of things that happened that led up to you building your actual final rocket.
	Did you have help with that rocket?
	Oh my god, yeah.
	There's no way.
	You know, some of the criticism from Freeman, he's absolutely right.
	I couldn't build something like that, you know, in a whale shop that's a local corner.
	He's absolutely right.
	That's where Art Bell picked up on.
	He said, my God, the name of all the people that's involved.
	I said, well, yeah.
	It first started out, of all things, my mother.
	She was an LPN. That's a licensed practical nurse.
	And this was back in 1964.
	And something happened in Mount Vernon, Ohio that's really significant.
	They built one of the first in the state A cardio-intensive care unit.
	Now today, that's common dirt, but back in 1964, man, this is cutting-edge stuff.
	And for us to get a coronary care unit like that was a really big item.
	And my mother started off as a candy striper to volunteer in a hospital.
	She worked up to a nurse's aide, then she went on to college and It became an LPN. So they put her in charge of that coronary care unit at the graveyard shift from 11 at night to 7 in the morning.
	She loved that shift.
	And she was in charge of it.
	Well, what does this have to do with your story?
	A lot.
	It set up the next set of dots that's going to connect.
	She's sitting there every night and she has a patient there.
	And his name is Irvin.
	And Irvin is about 93.
	His wife, Arizona, was there.
	She's about 91.
	And Irvin is just mean as a snake.
	And he knocked out one of her nurses, one of the mother's nurses, with a cane.
	She grabbed a cane and went back in there and broke the cane right next to the bed rail next to him.
	He said, if you get one of my girls again, I will beat you to death.
	And so he behaved after that.
	Wow.
	Why is that important?
	Well, Irving and Arizona have a son named Curtis, and their last name is LeMay.
	These are the parents of four-star general Curtis LeMay, chief of the Joint Chiefs.
	Right.
	All right?
	Enough power for you?
	No, there's more.
	He's also the founder of SAC, Strategic Air Command.
	He's the designer of the B-52 Stratofortress.
	He's also the man sitting with the nuclear switches under his fingers for President Kennedy in the Cuban Missile Crisis.
	Well, I know something about him that I don't know if you know that Mark Richards says.
	Mark Richards says that Curtis LeMay is the one who's responsible for us having a base on the moon when they, the aliens, didn't want us to.
	He said Curtis LeMay wouldn't take no for an answer.
	I don't know anything about that part of the story, but I... That sounds like Curtis.
	Curtis, oh my god, Curtis was such a force to be reckoned with.
	He was a force of nature.
	He was standing on the flight lines at Wright-Parents and Air Force Base and the B-52s are being refueled.
	And there's standing fuel all over the place.
	And he's standing there lining up his stogie.
	So this lieutenant approached me and said, General, I don't think you should be smoking a cigar in the middle of this fuel.
	Loading of the bombers might blow up and he turned around looked at the bombers and he looked back at the lieutenant that they wouldn't dare Just a powerful individual, but See when I met up with him in 1960 while my mother meeting earlier back in 1966 and He would ask my mother You know,
	you get to know somebody.
	He has to go through my mother to see his parents.
	She's in charge of the CCU. Right.
	So, her and LeMay became friends.
	Her and Curtis became good friends.
	And he asked her about her family.
	And she said, I have three sons.
	Two of them are just normal.
	But the third one is definitely odd.
	And he goes, how's he odd?
	He goes, that's all this rocket stuff.
	Well, that caused, you know, Curtis...
	What kind of rocket stuff?
	And she started describing things and he could provide you serious.
	So he, now this is how far Curtis is.
	Does he write anything down?
	Does he have a journal or a notebook?
	And he goes, yeah!
	He's got this one book he keeps under his arm all the time.
	He even sleeps with it.
	He said that he needs to complete a fusion containment field.
	Curtis said, You couldn't bring that by one day, could you?
	So I go to bed at 11 at night.
	I'm already asleep when she goes to work.
	So she took my notebook.
	I didn't know about it.
	She went to the hospital.
	There's Curtis.
	She hands it to him.
	He looks through it.
	There's 93 pages of it.
	And he is not totally lost in it.
	He understands some of it.
	So he just looked at my mother and asked real coyly.
	Do you have a copier?
	So he copied, thank goodness, not all of it, but he copied about a third of it from the beginning.
	And then he took it to the next place in Columbus, Ohio, a place called Battelle Memorial.
	Have you ever heard of it?
	Battelle Memorial is one of the largest think tanks in the world.
	In 1964, They had 137 Nobel laureates there in science and physics.
	So it's a very powerful place.
	So he took my math there and they looked at it and they asked, is this just a bunch of chicken scratch or gibberish or something to it?
	And they said, you know, it's somebody working on a quantum level trying to achieve fusion containment.
	So it's something to it.
	He goes, yeah, it's something to it.
	We haven't seen anything like this.
	So they sent it off to another place, and they passed it around, and then some more individuals showed up.
	The point is, by the time LeMay got to me, let me bring it to current events.
	It's 1968 at this time, and General LeMay is running for Vice President of the United States with his running mate, George Wallace.
	Y'all remember that?
	Oh no, I didn't realize that, okay.
	Yeah, and you know that's where you got Hoover and all the other people, Democrat candidates.
	But anyway, he lost a race and that was in November 1968.
	Come January 6, 1969, I get a knock on my front door and I I answer the door and open up and there's this full bird colonel in the Air Force.
	He goes, hi, are you David Adair?
	I said, yeah.
	He goes, my name is Colonel Arthur Bailey Williams.
	I'm Colonel Williams.
	And I'm XO for General LeMay.
	And I'm here to offer you a proposal.
	And I said, yeah, come on in.
	And the proposal is that we've looked over some of your preliminary work.
	We'd like to fund you with everything and everybody and all the stuff you're going to need to finish your fusion containment rocket.
	And I went, really?
	Now what do you think I'm going to say?
	No?
	Now this is pulp fiction going to happen here.
	We'll jump way forward about 45 years.
	I'm in North Carolina and over the mountain from me is Tennessee.
	There's a town there named Maryville, Tennessee.
	Now, Maryville, Tennessee, there's somebody that has something to do with the story.
	There's a probate judge there, and if you call the probate judge Maryville, Tennessee, and ask who the executor was of Jan Williams, the only daughter of Colonel Williams, who was the executor of the Williams estate?
	David Tyson Adair.
	Right.
	So, how do you Photoshop that?
	That's a great line.
	That's a great line.
	Okay, go ahead.
	Well, David, my background is also nuclear physics.
	And I went, oh really?
	I said, that's helpful.
	He said, let's write up a grocery list.
	And I went, oh yeah, that's a great idea.
	So, I do.
	I'll write up my list of what we're going to need.
	As we're going through that list, there's other things coming up.
	We're going to need all kinds of shots.
	We're going to need all kinds of skilled personnel.
	And LeMay is directing Colonel Williams and saying, we're going to modularize this entire operation.
	So we send different parts off to different labs.
	People that were involved, Patel Memorial, Oak Ridge, Tennessee, National Lawrence Livermore Laboratory.
	Okay.
	Oh my God, the list goes on and on.
	And there were dozens of...
	Yeah, I'm actually looking at Battelle, and the information here, at least on Wikipedia, if it's correct, says they were managing Brookhaven National Labs, which is a pretty key place as well.
	Well, there's something else.
	Do you know who manages Area 51?
	Battelle Memorial, and that's classified.
	Oh, wow.
	Yeah, that makes perfect sense.
	They, you know, that they would be, I mean, they have their hand in everything.
	It says Oak Ridge National Lab.
	I can tell you that Lawrence Livermore, our Henry Deacon, one of our witnesses, I think I'm at liberty to say he worked there.
	So, yeah, big time.
	Yeah, very, very interesting.
	So, in other words, he farmed this out.
	There are all these different agencies, all these different groups.
	I would give specifics on machining certain items, but no one had an idea what their parts were doing.
	Some of them figured out it was propulsion.
	Others were trying to figure out something nuclear.
	And that's just their own curiosity.
	We're trying to figure out what to go to and they would get no answers.
	Just build it to the precise, to the spec that we provide you.
	And then all the parts come back and then that's when I start assembly.
	And that's another interesting situation.
	We're skipping over parts that play very important roles in this story.
	My dad and his background, it feeds directly into this, you know, because people ask, well, where'd you get all the equipment and the skills and know-how?
	Well, let me back up again.
	Here we go, Pulp Fiction.
	We'll go back to, let's see, I'm about, I still remember, I wasn't even in school yet.
	As a matter of fact, I'm still in a stroller.
	But I remember my parents, my, if you saw the movie October Sky, I did, and I love that movie.
	Okay, well, you know, Homer's dad was standing there explaining situations to an old gentleman in a black suit, and he was the mine superintendent, and he was trying to explain to him why he needed time off to machine this thing for Homer.
	That superintendent is my mother's dad.
	He's my grandfather.
	That's how tight we are in the story.
	Right.
	So, my grandfather, my mother's dad, didn't want my dad working in the mines because his grandchildren might end up having no father.
	So he wanted to get my dad out of there.
	My dad was just extraordinarily gifted in mechanics, but he never got past fifth grade because his parents pulled him out and made him work in a coal mine to make money.
	He got a garage.
	My grandfather got him a garage and it was really very successful in the first week.
	But these drivers would come in at 3 o'clock in the morning.
	I remember my parents nailing blankets over the windows of the garage because they didn't want their lights to be seen because these drivers are coming in with these really powerful cars, 392 Chrysler Hemi engines.
	And they have 200-gallon tanks in the trunk.
	And it's not gasoline.
	It's moonshine.
	These are moon runners.
	And Dad could tune their cars up until they were just like missiles.
	And it's very hard for the revenuers to catch them on the roads.
	And they're looking for garages lit up at night to tune these powerful cars up.
	And if you didn't know this, half of the drivers of NASCAR were moon runners.
	That's how NASCAR was born.
	That's very cool.
	You know, this has got to be a movie.
	Tell me you had some luck with Hollywood and this is going to be a movie.
	I don't care.
	I've turned down offers.
	I don't know.
	If somebody wants to make a movie, I guess.
	I'll make this movie.
	I can tell you this is an incredible movie.
	Okay, continue.
	Wait a minute.
	It gets way better.
	So there's my dad tuning these cars up in the middle of the night.
	And the customers are excellent because they all pay cash.
	And so Dad had a heck of a business.
	Well here, one day, this man comes in.
	His carburetor malfunctioned.
	It was a thing called a spicer carburetor with a very complicated water jacket around it.
	It takes a whole day to change the thing out.
	So the guy knew a lot about automotive stuff.
	He was telling my dad, man, it's going to take a day to do this thing.
	No, I can get it done in about an hour and a half.
	And the man said, are you serious?
	He said, yeah, I can.
	He said, well, can I stand and watch?
	He said, sure.
	So, about an hour and a half, exactly, Dad finishes it.
	And the man said, do you always work this fast?
	And he said, yeah, when I see what I'm doing, he didn't get the joke.
	Because it's a broad daylight.
	So anyway, the guy laughed and he said, look, I'm coming from Detroit.
	My car broke down here in West Virginia.
	I'm on my way to Florida.
	We're going to go to a town called Daytona, and we're going to race on the beach.
	I want to hire you as my mechanic.
	And Dad said, really?
	He said, yeah.
	And he sticks out his hand and goes, hi, my name is Lee Petty.
	He has a son later named Richard Petty.
	You ever heard of him?
	I guess so.
	I'm not.
	Yeah, okay.
	They're the most famous NASCAR drivers in history.
	All right.
	Very cool.
	They're the most prolific racing family that ever lived.
	Right.
	Well, my dad was Lee Petty's mechanic, so we moved to Daytona Beach out of West Virginia.
	I'm about two years old.
	And later, they built a Charlotte Motor Speedway and we come to live in North Carolina, where I am now.
	And we moved to Salisbury, next to Randleman, and that's where the Petty Enterprises are.
	So, what's this got to do with your story?
	Well, hold on.
	It's all connected.
	I left back at that assembly shop, right?
	Well, we're leading up to that.
	It turns out I'm really good at all mechanics.
	So the first engine I built for my dad was a 426 Chrysler Hemi engine with three deuces, that's three two-barrel carburetors.
	And on the dyno test, it was 975 horsepower I got out of that thing.
	And I did some different designs on the interior part.
	So it won the Grand National, that engine did.
	So my dad was really happy about it.
	He said, boy, wait until the world hits about my 12-year-old son just built a Grand National engine.
	And me, Patty, and Richard said, wait a minute, Fred.
	We can't say anything about it for two reasons.
	One is they got to think of child labor laws, and you're going to be happy about a 12-year-old.
	And the other one is that man standing over there.
	His name is Bill France.
	He's chairman of NASCAR. He'll hang us all from the trees.
	I agreed.
	They said, you understand, David?
	I said, yeah, no problem.
	I won't say a word to anybody.
	Well, Richard's looking at me and he tells his dad.
	I said, Dad, wait a minute.
	You can't just take that engine and leave David just standing here?
	I mean, that's not right.
	What do you want, David?
	Or anything you want?
	I said, yeah, can I work in these shops at night?
	And they said, you got it.
	And they gave me the keys and the code to the plate.
	And I said, if you don't find anything you need, you just write it down in order.
	Well, I don't know if you know this or not, but a NASA speed shop and a NASA rocket shop, they're mirrors of each other.
	Both shops are designed to produce speed, the ultimate speed.
	And we had drag racers in that building.
	So our fuels were liquid oxygen, liquid hydrogen.
	So we had cryogenic fluids on hand and all the special equipment that you need to handle it with.
	And then we had nitro.
	They also had exotic metals, titanium, aircraft aluminum, all kinds of high-stress, lightweight materials.
	And we had all the bender machines and the shears and the presses and just everything you would need.
	And so from that shop, I built my first rocket.
	Excellent.
	And it was an eugenic liquid fuel rocket engine.
	And that's how they would build something like that.
	I had a state-of-the-art NASCAR shop to work with.
	So you were doing that before Curtis LeMay showed up at your door, is that correct?
	That is correct.
	So I had all that built up.
	All right.
	My dad retired, he got injured, but he retired.
	But all that equipment of his came with it.
	So when we bought a house in Ohio, there was a house and then on the far end of the property, What used to be a dealership garage.
	Imagine how big those are.
	And all my dad's equipment was in there.
	And that's when I started building my rockets.
	I could really go to town.
	But then when LeMay showed up, everything went to steroids because he brought in a lot of Air Force personnel.
	And we reconstructed that entire garage into a state-of-the-art rocket assembly building.
	And Pissom was that big as far as rockets go, but I had everything I needed, and the first thing they did was they boarded up all the windows so you couldn't see in.
	They built this fake wall that covered the entrance port where we pulled the rockets in and out, and the entire shop was hidden from view.
	And we had a, in the showroom, was my museum of all these models and rockets had up front, and nobody had a clue what the hell was going on behind that fake wall.
	That's how we did operations.
	Okay, but when you started building this rocket, this is your final rocket, is the one that actually ends up at, I forget, was it White Sands?
	Is that where it ended up?
	That's right.
	How long did it take?
	I was just curious, how long it took from the day he showed up at your door and then got things going for you to actually build this then?
	26 and one half months.
	Oh, all right.
	Yeah, wow.
	And that's a long time.
	That's two and a half years.
	And it was just amazing, all the stuff that went on.
	Well, that still might beat NASA and maybe Elon Musk.
	I beat everything.
	I beat everybody on the planet.
	I didn't beat them just by a few months.
	I beat them by 45 years.
	Right.
	Because I achieved fusion containment.
	It didn't last very long.
	I was able to sustain 4.5 seconds of a field.
	Now, that might not sound like much, but it's enough to work with a controlled detonation process.
	And just to speak up for myself, I guess, NASA has spent $14 billion at.00786.54 of one second.
	I'm at 4.5 seconds.
	That's an eternity.
	And so I got there in 1971, and they're still back at that percentage at 2017.
	So I think I was ahead a little bit.
	Okay, yeah.
	Well, the NASA being broken off from the secret space program is still trying to reinvent the wheel.
	Okay, fair enough.
	That's so amazing.
	They're just...
	I can't say there's an alternative space program.
	I haven't seen it.
	I haven't touched it.
	I haven't met anybody who worked there.
	Well, wait, wait, wait.
	If you went into Area 51, you sure as hell did at that time.
	Isn't that an interesting take?
	And you're grounded in that way.
	And you're right.
	Coming from me, that's a real odd thing to be saying.
	But you've got to remember, I only saw very precise things that only dealt with me and what I was working on.
	Although I did see some strange other things down there.
	But I didn't have...
	You did.
	And I want to get to that part of the story because, you know, we don't have all night.
	I'm going to stay with you as long as it takes, though.
	Let me say that.
	So now at this point, let's just bring the story.
	So you're at the point where you're actually building your rocket, right?
	Yeah.
	What we've done now is we've ran it through all...
	Of the different mechanical phases, and I wasn't alone.
	I had mathematicians helping me.
	I couldn't do all of those by myself, just too much.
	But I was the only one that knew how all the final assembly goes together.
	So that still kept me in charge.
	But LeMay and actually Colonel Williams, they were the faces and eyes and ears, voices of the project.
	They kept me buried away because of a very simple reason.
	Who's going to want to work with a teenager?
	And this is 1966, 67, 68.
	Do you know what, remember how, you might not even be old enough to remember this, but they talked very condescendingly to teenagers, not like today.
	I mean, they were really down on you back then.
	So we decided to be a very wise thing not to let anybody know I was Really, the guy's putting it all together.
	For better or lack of terms, my brainchild is what I came up with.
	So they were smart.
	He was very smart.
	I mean, LeMay was just a very shrewd, clever man.
	So anyway, he's running this operation and then other people get involved.
	Congressman John Ashfoot.
	That's the local congressman.
	He's now involved in this thing.
	Now, is he still alive or not?
	No, he died.
	He was poisoned to death by Dr.
	Rudolph.
	That's the other character.
	That's another character that gets involved in the story.
	Okay, so what was his name?
	Was Congressman what?
	John Ashbrook.
	He ran for President of the United States in 1972.
	And he was poisoned by this guy Rudolph, huh?
	Yep.
	They won't admit that.
	Boy, the family members are still pissed off about that.
	We have him on the biography that we're making.
	We have him on camera.
	And the relative's family of John Ashbrook is so mad about the situation.
	He got sick.
	And I mean, he got sick really fast.
	And this is an Ohio farm boy.
	They don't get sick.
	But he got sick in the stomach and he died so fast.
	They didn't have time to sanitize his congressional records.
	And that brings another big point up in the story.
	Cindy Pruitt, who is the producer of Human Race Productions in Agorah Hills, California, she is making the biography on me.
	So she takes a camera crew and she asks me, where do we go first?
	See, I think nobody's ever came to me, unlike her, willing to put up the money and time and effort to go because we went to seven different states 2,500 miles and four and a half decades back in time.
	I'm the only person knows where all this stuff is, where it was done.
	So I said, the first place we're going to go is Ashland, Ohio.
	Well, why is that?
	Well, that's the library of Congressman John Ashbrook.
	We're going to go to his library.
	And we did.
	And so the camera gets out of the car and it walks up and walks right into the building and there's a curator waiting for us.
	He goes back to the vault, spins the wheel, opens up the big door, and he brings this tray of letters out.
	The first letter he lays down, the camera zooms right into it, and I said, read that letter.
	And she does.
	And it says, I'm paraphrasing the letter, while John Ashbrook is out of the office running for president, we are in the process of obtaining the Titan missile for you.
	Now hold on a minute.
	You're what?
	You're attaining a Titan rocket for me.
	The letter is dated 1970.
	I was born in 1954.
	How old am I? I'm 15 years old.
	And this letter of Congress with your stationery letterhead and stamp on it, Congress is in the process of handing over an ICBM Titan missile to me.
	That's a 130-foot-tall rocket, stay-the-art intercontinental ballistic missile.
	It takes a military escort to move it.
	And you're handing that over to a 15-year-old?
	Don't you find that a little strange?
	And I asked any of that questions.
	Her mouth is hanging down looking at the letters.
	She goes, what in God's name is going on?
	I said, it's something that is part of this project.
	I built the engine, but I don't have a rocket body.
	So I asked General LeMay, what's the most powerful rocket body you've got in the entire arsenal?
	Well, that's a Titan missile, ICBM. So he said, do you need one?
	I said, I don't know.
	I have to look at it.
	And so the letter is starting the approval process of handing me an ICBM Titan missile.
	Yeah, that's amazing.
	Yes, absolutely.
	Well, it gets better.
	There are 13 more letters behind it.
	Remember they didn't have time to sanitize his records?
	He died so quickly.
	Right.
	My story is in those letters documented by the United States Congress.
	And you can go up there for yourself and ask to see the letters and they'll show them to you.
	So anyway, so what happened was I looked at the rocket and I examined it and General LeMay came to me and said, well, what do you think about the rocket body?
	I said, I said, let me answer your question with a question.
	What's the last thing going through a mosquito's mind when he hit the windshield at 80 miles an hour?
	His butt.
	He goes, what?
	That's what happened to your rocket.
	That rocket engine will rip right through the rocket.
	It'll be traveling so fast, that rocket will just come apart like a styrofoam cup.
	And so General Mates sits down and says, what are we going to do?
	I said, it's obvious.
	I'm going to have to build a rocket body around the engine, one that's designed to take the force of this type of acceleration.
	And, you know, Freeman chimed in to somebody, he said, well, that kind of rocket engine won't work in Earth's atmosphere.
	Well, you know what?
	He's absolutely right.
	That's correct.
	So, you know, give him a little brownie point.
	That's okay, because I'm not really planning to fly the damn thing.
	What I want to do is do a control burst.
	Now, a control burst, if I can get the thing to hold together, will tell me if my fields are sustained.
	And it's very simple how you know that.
	How do you know your field is sustained?
	Very simple.
	Me and Colonel Williams and Rudolph and everybody else at White Sands are not going to be shadows on the wall because we'll be staring at a thermonuclear blast only a mile away.
	So, if it holds together, the rocket will launch and we'll still be there.
	And that led to another whole scene that was just crazy.
	That's what all that was about with the ICBM and the letters of Congress.
	And once again, there's the letters of Congress in the Congressional Library.
	And do you know what the job was of Congressman Ashbrook?
	He was head of internal security of Congress.
	He was the chairman.
	Can you imagine the power that guy wielded?
	How do you Photoshop that letter?
	I've had idiots tell me, that's a Photoshop letter.
	So anyway, now we're into a whole other task of things to do.
	We have got to build a body.
	And so, I designed a rocket.
	It's unlike any rocket you've ever seen.
	The rocket that you see in the newspaper clips, In my stories, it's all over the place.
	Internet, YouTube, all that stuff.
	That is actually the rocket we drug around.
	I've won so many awards for that rocket engine.
	It was a flyable rocket.
	It was using standard cryogenic fluids and engines.
	But it was the perfect thing to drag to state fairs and national science fairs and all that stuff.
	So when they see us moving rockets around at my place, big ones like that, They wouldn't even notice Pifflin.
	It just looked like, oh, that's David and his rockets.
	LeMay loved it.
	He said, what a perfect smoke job.
	My God.
	He said, did you come up with this?
	I said, yeah, I just had to think we need to drag something around as a decoy, but it needs to be functional.
	So we had two of them.
	But no one's ever seen Pifflin.
	You're about to because an artist named Mark McCandless I have partnered up with, And his story is interesting in itself.
	But his understanding of airspace and aviation in the real world is amazing.
	So he's going to be perfect to draw everything that I'm talking about.
	He'll draw my engine.
	He'll draw the rocket.
	He'll draw the alien engine.
	Okay, now I thought he was going to have some of that stuff at the conference.
	So you're saying that stuff wasn't done?
	No.
	Sam, you people have no idea how complex this is.
	We have spent 110 hours just working out the plasma ducts of the alien engine.
	Right.
	It's not something you just whip off in a day.
	Oh, look what I thought.
	Look what I meant.
	You know, this is really hard work.
	Right.
	And it's lucky that I was born with this stupid, eidetic memory, and I'm just like a camera, I remember everything, and it's taken...
	Hours and hours and hours of details and Mark asks so many questions, but he's closing in on it.
	We, after about a hundred hours, we now have the Plasma Doctor coming into view and I'm starting to see, for the first time, it's a trip for me, for the first time in my life, outside my head, I'm starting to see images of this one coming back, thanks to him.
	Oh, fabulous, yeah.
	It's amazing.
	Wait till you guys see this stuff.
	Well, I think I should have Mark back on my show.
	I've had him on my show.
	We've interviewed.
	I've met him in person as well.
	You think he'd be willing to talk about this?
	Is he able to?
	Absolutely.
	I tell him, feel free to talk all he wants.
	It's some things we can't talk about for proprietary reasons.
	All right.
	And that right there brings home, if not fantasy, it's real.
	So they've got patent concerns on some of this stuff.
	All right.
	But anyway, yeah, he can talk about it.
	He's a great little narrator and just a sweet guy.
	Just a really nice man.
	Yeah, he's a very nice man.
	Absolutely.
	And I've talked to him.
	That makes it even easier for me.
	But yeah, he's really getting a handle on this thing.
	All right, so...
	So you're going around, you're going around, and you've got a faux rocket, so to speak, that's sort of pitch hitting for you at these fairs, I guess, whatever.
	And meanwhile, you've got your actual rocket.
	So the rocket is done.
	What happens, okay, you know, to move the story along, what happens next?
	Okay, well...
	We skipped thousands of details, but we only got some...
	Well, you know, I'd love to hear those details.
	Are they going to be in your documentary?
	Yeah, they are.
	And there's another tape we're making where I will take time to explain all the details, just short of proprietary stuff.
	But Mark's job is very simple.
	I just told him, draw everything that's in my head.
	Can you imagine how much that is?
	So, he's working on it.
	He's going to be a partner for years with me to get all this done.
	But in the end result, every one of you out there is going to get to see all this stuff.
	And the way he draws, it looks like a photograph.
	Oh, very good, yeah.
	So you'll see all the detail.
	That's why it's taking so long.
	It's just the detail.
	Not airbrushing anything.
	We're putting a plumbing in this thing.
	So, anyway, just to get the story rolling, I finished assembling I build a body for Pifflin.
	It's built around the engine.
	And when I got through with it, oh, my God, you're to see this rocket.
	It's like nothing.
	It does not look like a rocket that you know.
	It looks like something.
	I mean, it looked like it would leave Star Trek in the dust, and it would.
	Really?
	So, it's so fast.
	But anyway, we get it assembled.
	We get it put together.
	We put it in a...
	What's that?
	Oh, man.
	Lawson's Milk.
	Really big in Ohio.
	So we put the rocket in a Lawson's Milk truck, a real big one.
	It's like a transfer truck.
	But it has the commercial Lawson's Milk signs on it.
	And there were some other things we had.
	And every vehicle we had was just disguised like that.
	That's what LeMay wanted.
	So we drove to Wright Patterson Air Force Base.
	And when we get there, there's this plane called a Starlifter.
	It's a C-141 Starlifter.
	And there's this ring of heavily armed airmen around this thing.
	And when we pulled up, they parted and we drove in and loaded the rocket.
	And I'm just standing there looking around.
	It really freaked me out.
	All of this military might and hardware and this base is all for my rocket.
	And I'm going, this is a trip, man.
	I had no idea it was going to go like this.
	I don't know what I was thinking.
	I'm just so busy building it.
	But we get on the Starlifter and we leave and we fly to White Sands Missile Testing Ground.
	We land there and we Roll Piflum out of the Starlifter into a hangar.
	And that's where we start prepping everything.
	And then this next day, this black DC-9 lands.
	And I made a joke about where's the white bunny head?
	Now, if you don't know that, at that time, in 1971, Hugh Hefner had a black DC-9 with a white bunny head on it.
	Ah, okay.
	I was making a joke.
	I thought it was pretty good.
	I looked up at...
	Colonel Williams, and he ain't smiling.
	He just looks really worried.
	And I said, something I need to know.
	He goes, yeah.
	He said, do you remember a guy that Dr.
	Von Braun told you about?
	I said, yeah, the guy that was at Pinamundi, responsible for 100,000 people being murdered in the slave works of Metalworks, where they built a B2.
	And they said, yep.
	He just showed up.
	Are you serious?
	So out came these guys in black suits and mirrors and glasses.
	They'll help me in the middle of the desert.
	I can't believe it.
	And I told him, I thought, you know, he should dress a little lighter.
	And the one guy came out behind him, had khakis on and shorts and kind of looked like a He looked just like somebody off of Mutual Walmart or Wild Kingdom.
	He looked like Jim.
	And I said, that guy doesn't have a dress.
	And that's when Colonel Williams said, that's him.
	And I got a good look at him, and I went, oh my god, there's a guy in the photograph that Von Braun showed me, and it's Arthur Rudolph.
	Arthur Rudolph is not even a real doctor.
	It's just an honorary title.
	But he was brilliant.
	He was really brilliant.
	Propulsion.
	He designed the F1 Saturn V moon rocket engine.
	Quite a bit.
	Now, just earlier in the program, I was telling you about them, how powerful they were.
	So that is quite a brilliant person coming off that plane.
	But he walks up to me and I asked him, who are you?
	And he goes, oh, I'm just a guy that goes around looking at propulsion systems.
	That are worthy to look at for the government.
	Really?
	Okay.
	He said, I understand that you have a unique propulsion system.
	I said, yeah, it's in the hangar.
	You want to look at it?
	He said, sure.
	So we walked in.
	He went on one side of the rocket.
	I was on the other side.
	And we're looking at each other.
	And he asked me to open it up.
	I said, sure.
	So he thought, well, what are you doing?
	I said, I'm going to open it up for you.
	He said, well, don't you need tools?
	No, I just need this block of metal.
	He goes, what are you talking about?
	Watch.
	So I rub the block of metal down the side of the pism, and the panel raises up and moves to the side.
	He goes, what is that?
	I said, it's called a disengler metal lock.
	It's old technology.
	It's actually from World War II. What, you don't have anything like it?
	Oh, man, did he get upset.
	So he now got his head down in the engine bay.
	So, I don't even know where I thought this would be a good time telling something.
	So I got right by his ear.
	I said, do you know what you're looking at?
	That's a power system that has a million times the power of your F1 engines, Dr.
	Rudolph.
	And he raises up.
	He is red as a tomato.
	He is so pissed.
	And he asked me, who are you?
	And I went, I'm just a kid that launches rockets in the cow fields of Ohio.
	And So it went downhill from there.
	But he took over instantly.
	He took over the project.
	Von Braun said he would.
	And even Colonel Williams said that's going to happen.
	And he had Colonel Williams arrested and house arrest in his quarters.
	You're kidding.
	Yep.
	So he's taken over complete control.
	So anyway.
	Well, what happened to you when he did that?
	Well, he just looked at me and he told me, you will finish prepping the rocket.
	You will get it ready for launch.
	You will change the landing coordinates to exactly what I will give you.
	And he gave me different coordinates.
	I said, but wait a minute.
	I can drop this rocket right back down on top of us.
	We won't even have to walk a mile or two and pick it up.
	You're wanting this thing to go down, I guess, I'm just guessing 456 miles northwest of here.
	In a place called Green Lake.
	Why in God's name do you want to drop my rocket in a dry lake bed?
	And he said, just do it.
	And so I knew things were not going well.
	So I had to make a phone call to my parents.
	And Rudolph said, okay.
	But they're listening in on the phone.
	But that's okay because my dad and I figured out something long ago.
	This thing might go south.
	And it did.
	So I told my dad, who always smoked a doctor, Garbo pipe, Omega pipe, Brent.
	I told him, if I call and tell you to light your pipe and enjoy the smoke and sit back and relax, I want you to go in the lab and burn everything there is.
	Burn all the rockets, burn all the designs, burn the papers, burn my math book, burn everything.
	And so I'd call him and tell him, light your pipe and sit back and relax.
	He said, are you sure?
	I went, yeah.
	So that comes back in a big way later.
	So anyhow, now with everything back at home burnt, the only thing left is me and Pissom.
	And I knew that we were going somewhere, but I don't know where.
	And I knew Colonel Williams has been pretty much contained And I asked Colonel Williams, have you gotten to a phone or radio or anything to tell General May what's going on?
	He goes, no.
	He said they got me on a short leash.
	So I went, damn.
	So anyhow, we prep and we launch.
	And I could go into tons of details and launch.
	You had to see this thing to believe it.
	First of all, No one's ever seen the launch of an electromagnetic fusion containment rocket.
	Not even today.
	No one has ever heard one.
	That was something I forgot about.
	I didn't think about it.
	The sounds are just like something of another world.
	It's not like a rocket engine sound.
	But anyway, keep on moving here.
	The rocket goes up and it hits an altitude of about 122 miles.
	662,000 feet up.
	And with that, I didn't need any engine power.
	I just glide slope.
	And I glided back to an area called Groom Lake, Nevada.
	And that's the only name I ever knew that place by.
	Never heard Area 51 uttered by anybody.
	It's 1971.
	So...
	We leave to join the rocket.
	Okay, does Williams come with you then?
	No, he's locked up.
	Oh, wow.
	That really bothered me when I heard, no, he's under, he's just being detained.
	I said, for what?
	He said, well, he's not allowed to go where we're going.
	So he just tells me to get on board, and I'm going, why are we going to a dry lake bed?
	So when we get there, and this is an interesting thing.
	If you check all my tapes, which I'm sure a lot of you will, you'll see I say they're twin 10,000 foot runway.
	But you never hear me say anything about operational and that we ever landed on this runway.
	They weren't done.
	They were chopped out, staked out, stringed.
	What we landed on was a partially finished What I think would be a taxiway later for the big runways.
	And I'm looking at that, and the first thing I thought about was, why would they want to build such massive runways on a dry lake bed?
	It's not bedrock.
	You're going to have problems with your runway, but it wasn't my business.
	But obviously, we didn't have any trouble landing the DC-9.
	It just landed right on the small, I guess, taxiway, whatever.
	They landed just fine.
	And I understand somebody told me that John Lear had a problem with me.
	Yeah, because I just talked to John Lear and he said, well, he doesn't believe you because there wasn't two runways at that time when you were there and so and so.
	He said one of them, in fact, had a big break in it or something like that and it was still being constructed.
	But you basically knew that.
	Yeah, he's right.
	And odd, he makes statements like that and doesn't even bother asking me.
	Nobody asked me for details about the runway.
	And he knows you.
	He knows you, right?
	No, I've never met him.
	Oh, you never met John.
	I thought you guys had talked.
	No, I've never met him.
	Well, I can put you in touch with him.
	He's a great guy.
	I just did a five and a half hour interview with him.
	Yeah, well, somebody just enlightened him about the runway.
	Find me a tape where I said we landed on the runway.
	We never did.
	It's just, they were just mapped out, staked out strings, chalk, as all it was.
	And a lot of, you could tell, they were getting ready to do a lot of construction there.
	So it's something they were planning to do, but no.
	See, I'm told and asked by a lot of people, don't give details.
	See what happens when you don't give details?
	John Lear, don't believe me.
	That's okay.
	I'll keep my point about details.
	We're going to set them straight, so don't worry about that.
	Well, it won't make critics shut their stupid mouths.
	Right.
	Because I've got the answers.
	I just don't...
	I'm told not to give out all the details.
	If you live it, you've got thousands of details in your brain.
	That's right.
	You know, God, am I... And I will say something in defense of John.
	If that's all the issues he's got with me, God bless him.
	Well, we'll find that out because I'm going to talk to him about that.
	So it's all cool.
	Let's continue.
	So you land at this Groom Lake.
	How many other people are with you?
	Is it just this Dr.
	Rudolph or how many other people are part of the team?
	No, he's got black suits with him, three or four of them people.
	You've got the flight crew.
	Several people jumped on board catching a ride from White Sands to there.
	They wouldn't say a word to me.
	They wouldn't even talk to me.
	I'd ask them, hi, who are you?
	I'm not a word.
	They just stare out the window.
	I was asking, do you work?
	Where are we going?
	Not a word.
	So I don't know who they all were, but no, we were not alone.
	Okay.
	And when we get out of the plane, they all take off in different directions.
	They had people meeting them, so they knew they were coming in.
	But anyway, we stopped at the center hangar.
	There's three hangars at the time.
	There was a water tower.
	There were several other offices buildings off to the right if you're facing the center hangar.
	And there's some interesting stuff that, you know, here's more detail.
	The lights on the top of the roof, they had louvers where the lights would shine down right where you're at, but from a distance, you'll never see those lights.
	They're hiding their lights, which I thought that was odd.
	Why would they hide their lights on these aircraft hangers?
	So they were worried about that for some reason.
	Anyway, I didn't know what this place was.
	I hadn't a clue.
	Just look like some kind of Air Force Base.
	A lot of construction is being planned.
	There was construction sites mapped out, all kinds of stuff planned.
	So you can tell there was a lot going on, going to happen there.
	So I just thought it was just...
	I actually thought it was part of an Ellis Air Force Base, which I guess it is, but actually it's not.
	I don't know how it's structured, but I didn't think much about it.
	You know, I'm what?
	I'm 17 years old.
	I'm more interested in what's going on with my rocket and me.
	So anyway, they pull up in these, I don't know what they were, golf carts?
	I can't describe them.
	They look like big golf carts you see at an airport where you can set, you know, eight or nine, ten people.
	But they had some kind of power system on them things.
	I just, I don't know what they are.
	It had an intake like a jet engine.
	There was a light recessed in the back, and whenever they would power up, the light would get brighter like on a rheostat.
	I didn't see any fuel tanks, no propane, didn't have no type of internal combustion engine.
	I don't know why it was just this weird hum that it would make.
	And they were fast.
	I mean, them things were really fast.
	So I have no idea what that was about.
	And that was the beginning of the whole thing.
	There was so much stuff I saw there, I didn't have a clue what They just shouldn't be there.
	So we go to the center hangar.
	We get in the golf carts.
	We get in the center hangar.
	We're just sitting there.
	And I'm just waiting.
	Okay, I'm looking around.
	Everybody's like they're waiting for something.
	So out of the floor comes these little pipes with chains hooked to each pipe.
	So it makes a parameter of the hangar.
	And this hangar is huge.
	I mean, my God, you could put a football field in this hangar.
	It's really big.
	So, while these little chains and stuff come up out of the floor, it feels off the floor area, away from everybody, and they had a good reason for doing that, because then next thing, the floor just dropped out from under.
	It's not that big.
	The size of a football field.
	Imagine what an elevator that is.
	That's incredible.
	So, going down, the first thing that hit me was, well, you can't have chains or cables that Just the concrete floor alone would be too much.
	So what is the lifting device here?
	Well, we got down, dropped down about, I don't know, 20-30 feet and then you could see it.
	There are worm screws in the walls.
	And a worm screw is like the screw you see in a garage door opener, the big bar that just turns and turns and turns, and it raises the door up and down.
	Okay.
	Worm screws are the most heaviest load-bearing things you could possibly ever build.
	But the size of these worm screws were the size of sequoia trees.
	Wow.
	Gigantic.
	There's like 12 of them.
	And I thought, man, just one of those worm screws would be enough power to lift that concrete floor.
	What's the other 11 for it?
	Whatever they're picking up and down there, it must be really friggin' heavy.
	I mean, super heavy.
	So I thought, that's interesting.
	So we're riding down, we go down, and I'm trying to count off the feet that we're moving, and I think we go about 200 feet down.
	And it flushes down at the floor, and three sides of us are walls of the elevator, and now straight out front.
	I don't know what you call it, a causeway.
	It's just a giant causeway.
	It's an arcing roof that looks like an arch.
	It goes down to about 50 feet from the ceiling, so maybe 75 feet.
	And then the walls counter straight down so they're perpendicular to you.
	And I thought, wow, that's pretty neat.
	But here's the thing.
	As far as the human eye can see, I had good vision back in.
	You can't see the end of it.
	It just goes like out into infinity.
	But you can see a curve in the floor.
	It's curving with the curvature of the earth.
	That's how big this place is.
	And so I had a natural question.
	I asked everybody on the golf cart.
	I went, man, what did you guys do with all the dirt?
	And they got so damn mad about that.
	They just did not like that question at all.
	And I just made it as a joke.
	But they were very sensitive.
	And every time we drive in the Southwest, we always joke about that.
	Because we see these big old mounds of dirt that are just, you know, they're supposed to be mountains or natural mountains or whatever, but they're not.
	They're just mounds of dirt.
	And that's what they did with the dirt.
	Yeah, I asked them, but they got really mad about it.
	I didn't see any dirt up above other than just normal piles of dirt moving stuff around.
	So I said, just looking straight ahead, you know, you've got a couple of mountains somewhere.
	And boy, they got annoyed by that.
	And I think I hit a nerve on that one.
	So I just sat back in the seat and I stick my arm out.
	Because I noticed something else.
	Here's the next crazy thing.
	The luminosity there is absolutely perfect.
	It's got to be registered with the retina of the human eye.
	It's just perfectly illuminated everywhere.
	There's no bright spots, no hot spots of light.
	And I stick out my arm and look at the floor and there's no shadows.
	So?
	So there's no light fixtures.
	How the hell is the place lit up?
	It's lit up so perfectly with no shadows.
	None.
	Anywhere.
	Not on anything standing on the floor, the golf cart, nothing.
	And I'm going, how are they doing it?
	And there's no indirect lighting.
	It's just lit.
	I still like to know how they did that.
	Over the years, the only thing I could theorize is somehow the atmosphere itself is the luminosity.
	You're breathing your own light.
	I don't know how they could do something like that.
	But we go down the causeway and we're moving along.
	We have a pretty good clip.
	You can see along the walls, there's shops, there's offices, there's labs, there's hangar bays paced every so often.
	And in the hangar bays, they have sliding doors, but some of the doors were open, you know, maybe 40, 50 feet, which going by at a pretty good speed.
	I'm still able to make out what's going on in some of the hangar bays.
	And man, there were some aircrafts, I don't know, aircrafts, spacecrafts, I don't know what they were.
	One of them looked like a big teardrop.
	And the teardrop, the front of it was glass with pained off sections.
	So it's a cockpit window of some kind.
	You can see a seat in there.
	And the thing tapered back to where it looked like a manta ray.
	It's really strange.
	And there was a square design at the very center in the back, which I would assume that's exhaust.
	And the only thing I can think of at that time, anything close like that, that might have been a pulse engine.
	I don't know.
	But anyway, Mark McCann was listening to it, and I was describing it, and he said, I think you just saw the first-generation Aurora.
	I went, really?
	You got me, bud.
	So anyway, and these were not models.
	Because there were power units.
	I'm familiar with the units called NC8s.
	And they supply electrical power to aircraft when they're being worked on.
	There was also air conditioning.
	So there's somebody inside that thing working that needs air.
	What about UFOs?
	Did you see a round craft?
	You know, a UFO? Traditional?
	Nope.
	Didn't see anything like that.
	Alright.
	There were drip pans under this I did see something I did recognize.
	Not exactly the same way I remembered it.
	But anyway, do you remember the Valkyrie?
	The XB-70.
	All right.
	I'm not an expert at this kind of thing, but I'm going to look it up.
	Yeah.
	Well, the XB-70 was sitting there, or something looked extremely close to it.
	But it had some other designs in the air ducts, and the exhaust area was different.
	Now, I know there's only two built.
	One of them was destroyed in a crash in the desert on test flight.
	The second one was shipped off to my parents and Air Force Base, where it's set today.
	You can see it.
	I don't know what this thing was, but it looked same size and configuration of the Delta Wing of seven six engines.
	Of an XB-70, but it looked like it had some kind of modification.
	Oh yeah, that's a very beautiful plane.
	It's considered by aviation experts the most beautiful plane ever created.
	Yes.
	It's an interesting story in itself if you're not familiar with it.
	It can cruise at 85,000 feet at 2,000 miles an hour.
	We don't have anything today to touch that in altitude or speed.
	And it was designed in 1958.
	Where did they get that technology?
	Well, it went black is what that means.
	I personally know something about the Valkyrie while it was built.
	You know who the original designer of the Valkyrie was?
	No.
	General Curtis LeMay.
	Oh, right.
	Cool.
	He designed it to replace the B-52s.
	He wanted the 45 of them built to replace the B-52s and he'd have his fleet of Valkyries.
	Him and Robert McNamara.
	Remember that name?
	Yep.
	That's the Secretary of Defense.
	They went into a huge fight over it.
	And eventually McNamara fired LeMay as Joint Chief and threw him out.
	LeMay was the one that said to Hanoi in North Vietnam, if you don't come to the Parents Peace College and talk to us, I will bomb you back into the Stone Age.
	And that got him fired by Robert McNamara and started him in my direction.
	But anyway, his nickname is Bombs Away LeMay.
	Yeah, okay.
	Anyway, what later the Valkyrie is designed will come back and hook more dots together.
	I didn't know it at the time, but I did later.
	Anyhow, we're still going on down the causeway.
	We go for a while, and this place is huge.
	When we got down to where we were, and you look forward, still no end in sight.
	I don't know how many miles that thing went, the causeway.
	That's very cool.
	All right.
	Can I ask you, because you're actually saying it goes indefinitely forward, but what about the width?
	The width, it had to be I'd say about 150 feet wide.
	Okay.
	Is that...
	Pretty big.
	I don't know.
	Is that the width of a football field or less?
	A football field...
	You know what?
	Now think about it.
	300 feet.
	Twice that time.
	It was over 300 feet wide.
	You could put a football field down through there.
	All right.
	So, whatever they were moving up and down through there, it was big.
	Or it could accommodate some really big things.
	Okay.
	Uh...
	And you were on this very, this small little, you know, golf cart thing, but you said it goes really fast.
	How fast did it go?
	Well, I found out later when we were out there with Petswim how fast.
	You know, we had to be doing about 60 or 70 miles an hour, not in the calmest way, but when they were running away from Petswim that was about to detonate, we had to be doing about 60 or 70 miles an hour.
	This thing was just Touching the high spots on the ground.
	We were flying.
	Okay.
	And how many people were on this thing when you were on it?
	There was me, the driver, Rudolph, four other personnel, which they were Air Force.
	Their uniforms were very strange.
	They didn't look like Air Force uniforms.
	They were some kind of uniform, but I just don't recognize any uniform like that.
	And the other thing that was interesting, no name plates.
	We have uniforms today, everybody has a name plate, right?
	You could see the holes in the shirt where they've taken the name plate off.
	What about upside down triangles?
	No, I didn't see any emblems or logos.
	Okay.
	They were like jumpsuits, you know, one zipper and a belt.
	What color were they?
	Royal blue, really deep blue.
	The hats were strange, well, they were beret type hats.
	Oh really?
	In colors and uniform.
	And you could tell they had emblems at one time because you could see shadows of where they, it looks like they removed a lot of things.
	So these, I don't know, maybe it's just for the day for me, but they just really Pretty much blanked out these uniforms so you couldn't tell what emblems or what relationships they had.
	So could you tell rank?
	No, rank.
	That's the other thing.
	The rank pin for missing off the collars.
	Okay.
	Except for the colonel of the base.
	He was there and he had his bird on the collar.
	But everybody else didn't have any insignias.
	Okay, the colonel of the base, do you know who is?
	No, not that time.
	And I'm only assuming he was a commander because he had his insignia zone and everybody that was in uniforms was constantly obeying his instructions or whatever.
	And he was very quiet.
	He didn't say much at all.
	Can you describe him?
	The reason I'm asking you is because Sean David Morton has a guy who was running that base who was in charge and it's possible he was in attendance that day when you were there.
	And he joined us when we were in the hangar sitting there waiting for the floor to drop.
	That's when he showed up.
	Right before the floor went down he got in Came out from the hangar area, office area, and walked out and got in the cart with Rudolph.
	And those two sat side by side.
	Okay, would Rudolph report to him or vice versa?
	Vice versa.
	Oh, yeah?
	You kidding?
	Rudolph was running the show.
	And...
	Whatever he said, that's what everybody did.
	So I know you remember conversation, but so on the way to the vehicle, there's no conversation, or what would you say about that?
	No, they were very quiet, and they were watching me back there, and when I was waving my arms around, they knew I picked up on the lighting.
	So I think they realized for a 17-year-old, I might have been a little bit sharper than they were used to.
	And they started to be very careful.
	The driver stopped the vehicle and he jumps off and he goes over to...
	Now, all the doors that we have been seeing at this point are sliding hanger doors.
	And they enter layers, you know, like in different sections.
	Standard doors of hangers.
	But not this door.
	When we got up to it, the first thing I noticed was, oh man, you've got to be kidding.
	This thing is over 100, maybe 130 feet in diameter.
	And it's an iris, like a camera lens.
	An iris.
	And I thought, my God, imagine the expense it takes to build an iris door of that size.
	That thing caught my attention.
	So the guy jumps out and goes over to the wall and he puts his hand on this glass Plate thing and he looks in this, you know, visor looking thing like a tonk coming out of the side of the wall.
	There's a flash of light and the iron store opens.
	So he's getting back in the buggy and I'm watching this and I'm going, what the hell did I just see?
	Was that a retina scanner and a palm scanner?
	We don't have anything like that.
	We don't even have, there's no faxes, no modems, no pages, no Those laptops, those cell phones.
	We didn't even have a handheld calculator yet.
	They'll come years later with Texas Instruments.
	At that time, all I had was two slide rulers.
	And this guy's looking at a retina palm scanner.
	Don't you find that a little odd?
	I sure did.
	And I started asking, what's up with the door locks?
	And nobody had said a word.
	So the iris opens up, and this plate slides across the floor once the iris clears, so you have a solid floor to drive over.
	And we roll into the room, and the room's pitch black.
	But when we start going in, the lights come up.
	So I'm thinking, all right, we might see some light fixtures.
	I'm looking around everywhere, lights are coming up, no light fixtures.
	Stick out my arms, no shadows.
	Perfectly illuminated.
	I'm like, man, how do they do that?
	They just drive me nuts.
	And I ask them, what's up with the lights?
	Nobody's answering anything.
	Okay, and is there any sound?
	I mean, you're going into this place.
	Is there any sound?
	That's that weird hum on that golf cart thing.
	When we come in, we drive to the end of the room.
	The place is big as a gymnasium.
	And we go to the far end and there's this Steel structure, cross beams, with a stage.
	It's built like a big, all steel platform stage.
	And there are these weird-looking curtain-type things hanging down off of cables.
	The cables go up in the ceiling, but they just disappear into the ceiling.
	I don't know what's going on with them things.
	So, when I say curtains, I don't mean a cloth curtain you could run up and pick up and look under a skirt.
	These are like rubber semis with the big mud flaps.
	Do you ever pick up one of the flaps?
	They will surprise you.
	They weigh about a hundred pounds each.
	They're extremely heavy.
	This is the same kind of material as rubber, but the size that they were, it must have been 30 feet tall.
	They've had to weigh tons.
	So, nobody's going to run up, you know, not even if you're the Hulk.
	Maybe the Hulk could, you know, pick it up and look under and see what's in there.
	So, obviously, they don't intend to have anybody sneaking a peek with these curtains.
	So, I'm sitting there, and I'm looking at Rudolph, and he motions me to step out, and I do.
	And then the driver is over at this panel, and he...
	Rudolph just...
	Gives him a wave and he raises the curtain and the curtain goes up and I was excited and disappointed at the same time.
	I was excited to see what they had sitting there but I was disappointed because I thought I was ahead of everybody.
	What is sitting there is now my engine, an electromagnetic fusion containment engine is about two feet long and probably about 15 inches in diameter.
	This thing is an electromagnetic fusion containment engine the size of an 18-wheel semi with a cab.
	It's over 70 feet long.
	It's got to be about 15 feet high and about 22 feet wide.
	And the reason I know those dimensions is I actually stepped them off when they weren't looking.
	That'll come later in the story.
	But anyway, I'm trying to get an idea.
	Okay, so wait one second, because you said he lifted the curtain.
	How did he lift the curtain?
	Well, he flipped a switch and the cables go up in the ceiling and he pulled the curtain with it.
	All right, okay.
	You know, it's just a simple raising curtain.
	So I'm looking at the thing and Rudolph's looking at me and he asked me, what do you think?
	And I went, damn, it's...
	It's sophisticated beyond my design.
	He goes, yeah, but you share the same power, Hart.
	I went, yeah, I do.
	Wait, wait.
	I want to slow you down just a minute there because how can you look at something and know it shares the same power as yours?
	That's so simple.
	So simple.
	You could take a Model A, not even a Model T, you could take a Model A Engine out of the Ford Model A and set it down next to a Lamborghini.
	And you can look at both of them and tell they both are internal combustion engines.
	One's just way more powerful and way more sophisticated, but they both share the same heart.
	They are internal combustion four-stroke engines.
	And if you don't understand mechanics and everything from my point of view, For us, it's just super easy to look at.
	So, I have the Model A in this case, and they've got the Lamborghini.
	Right.
	Both of them are electromagnetic fusion containment engines, and you can easily tell by the plasma decking.
	For one thing, in the twin, cyclotrons are involved.
	So they're going to have very similar signs, and it's just easy to tell.
	But, there are so many different things on this one, It's so much bigger.
	Some of the stuff on this thing is so big you can stand on a walk across, where in mine it's so small I had to use a microscope to assemble some of the stuff together.
	So it's kind of a really mind stretch for me to see something I've built so small and here this thing is so big you can walk down in it.
	It's just nuts.
	So from that angle, from that angle, can you see the hole in it where you said, you know, you thought it was shot down?
	That's the first thing.
	Well, it's sitting on the platform, and the way it's positioned, they've got where the hole is right in the middle, right in front of you.
	You can't miss it.
	Okay.
	So they put it there in a reason like that, obviously, so they can have access to that damaged area.
	So that led me to the first questions like oh your engine appears to be damaged and it's broken right at the place for if you're going to damage this engine that's the perfect place to do it and it's right where the plasma fields cross each other and that's what Mark has been having such a hard time with what you have is an octagon double mosaic design I'm
	trying to describe this thing.
	Is it in a figure eight?
	The plasma ducts will run in a figure eight, but you have to see how they're not just...
	It's the twisting that is so important and is a key to this whole thing of fusion containment.
	It's how the magnetic coils are twisted.
	And not just twisted in the main trunks, but the way it's twisted with inside each twist, it's inside each twist, it's inside times eight.
	Now you see why Mark is having a hundred hours on this thing?
	I'll show you how smart he is, and he's a smart cookie.
	He went and got two rubber balls and some yarn and cut eight strips and hooked them together and twisted them and that's when he's starting to figure out where does one duck start and where does it end up and how does it twist through the figure it out and I was having a hard time trying to describe that to him but you can now see it once we're done you'll look at it and you'll wonder well what's the big deal drawing that thing yeah well when you got nothing
	in front of you but air it's a really big deal because you got to figure this out okay so now tell us what what happened next well I'm standing there looking at it and I'm just amazed I'm downfounded by the design of it I could tell there's so many different configurations and in the actual construction of attack now there's where you really get it on mine I have a Nuts,
	rivets, bolts, weld lines, seam lines, wiring up, yin-yang.
	I mean, it's convoluted and complicated.
	This thing, as big as it is, not one single bolt head, not one screw, not one rivet, not one seam line, not one weld.
	It looked like it grew like a damn eggplant.
	Wow.
	I have no idea.
	First thing I turned around said, Alan, God's name, did you guys assemble this?
	Where's the hardware?
	And now they're all looking at each other.
	And the Air Force people are looking at Rudolph, like, I don't know, for direction or something.
	He just said, yeah, what do you make of that?
	I said, man, you've got some kind of crazy manufacturing technique I'm not familiar with.
	It looks like it grew.
	It looks more...
	That's nothing.
	It looks...
	I can't tell whether it's organic or inorganic.
	It's very confusing.
	Rudolph, that's the only time I ever saw him smile.
	He smiled.
	He said, yeah, it's a real brain twister.
	I said, yeah, like the coils.
	So anyway, I'm just trying to make sense of all this.
	And then I asked, can I go up on the stage?
	Air Force people all say one time, no.
	Yeah, go ahead.
	And Rudolph turns around and looked down and everybody's just quiet.
	So I go up the steps and I go up onto the platform and I walk up to this thing.
	Now there's something else.
	You have the massive basic construction of a fusion attainment vessel, but on the out, it's got an ectoskeleton body.
	What?
	What the heck is that?
	It's a machine, but why does it have an ectoskeleton on it?
	Suddenly it looks like a crustacean.
	They told me that it was their device.
	That's why the conversations really go crazy.
	Anyway, so inside the ectoskeleton structure, which has a complete set of dual ribbing that starts off from the top which i think is the top up there it looks like a giant vertebrate with rib cages coming off of it and they're proportionally correct shaped where it encases this thing perfectly and then there's another spinal column running on the bottom so it's
	like encasing this thing and uh i just thought Boy, this thing could take a really heavy beating and roll, and it's not going to damage the internal areas.
	Well, so does it look like, I mean, does it look like a whale?
	What color is it?
	That's a good question.
	That's something that Mark, the only person who really got into it, detail.
	He wants to know colors.
	I said, man, where do we start with this?
	I said, you might want to start with the big round spheres have a smooth texture to them when you put your hand on it.
	It feels just like a dolphin.
	Because I've played with dolphins at SeaWorld and that's how I know why dolphins feel that way.
	Also in the wild, I've met up some dolphins, but another story.
	But anyway, It feels like a dolphin to the touch, but it's soft until you press in, and then all of a sudden it's like steel underneath, just so rigid and solid, not moving.
	And the color.
	When it's sitting there, as it was, it's kind of like a bluish aqua color.
	Really pretty.
	But there's multiple colors because of other things going on with it.
	But that's some of the basic color that you see overall.
	It's got the aqua blue look of it.
	And when I got closer to it, to where I'm about, I don't know, the length of an arm, about two feet, three feet maybe, from it, My shadows on it.
	Now what have I been saying through the whole story?
	There's no shadows anywhere.
	So why are there shadows on this thing?
	My shadow.
	So I turn around and look up above me and I see maybe there's a light fixture shine.
	No light fixtures anywhere.
	And I'm going, man, what is this?
	So I stick out my arms where I'm making like a...
	I look like a T. And I move my arms up and down and guess what?
	My shadow's about a split second behind me in movement.
	So the shadow is slow.
	And I'm going, what is this thing doing?
	So I'm sitting there.
	So you're looking at this thing, you think it might be partially alive, even at that time you thought it might be alive.
	Does it have like a head?
	Does it have like a place where you're looking where you think it's got a head?
	No, no, no.
	It is following the true design of an electromagnetic fusion engine.
	No, there's no...
	There's no head or, you know, it's not going to look like some kind of animal or something.
	Okay, so the reason you can see inside is because it has a hole in it.
	Yeah, that hole is big.
	Now, that's a problem in itself.
	Anyway, there's a lot of detail here, if you want to hear the details.
	Well, I remember you told me that the hole in it, I'd like you to say how big it is, but you said that what made that hole was not a technology that we had to your mind.
	No.
	There's no way.
	I don't know of anything.
	Well, first of all, the hole was probably about, I don't know, five feet in diameter.
	Pretty big.
	But compared to the size of the vehicle, it's not that big a hole, but it's big enough where you can, at that time, I could easily crawl down into it.
	It's really big enough to go through.
	But it's the exterior or interior of the walls of the hole.
	Now that is something to pay attention.
	If it's metal, And you blow out something like that or blow into it or just damage it.
	The metal is going to be really rigid.
	It's going to be sharp.
	It's going to cut you if you, you know, grab hold of it as any ripped up, you know, device would be.
	But that's not the case in this case.
	It looks like, and I've seen pictures of it, it's horrible.
	When they fire a harpoon, a harpoon It has an explosive grenade in its head.
	And when it goes into the well, it detonates and blows a big hole inside the well and that's how they kill it.
	Which is just barbaric.
	But anyway, the hole of a well that's had a warhead, you know, an explosive head, harpoon head go in it, the hole that's left in it, the big gaping hole, but, you know, the blubber is torn.
	That's what just...
	It looked like torn flesh rather than shards of metal.
	I don't even know how to describe it.
	Did the color change at that place?
	Was it red or irritated?
	No, it was pretty much the same color inside and out.
	Except it did have around the edges of the flesh or whatever it was.
	It had the same color as that was in the...
	I didn't even tell you about this part.
	Cascading from the spinal column down the sides of this thing to the bottom and running back up was all this fibrous tubing.
	Like...
	I don't know for better descriptions, almost like fiber-like, fiber-optic material.
	And it had a distinct pattern cascading all around this thing.
	And if you step back and look at the tubes, the way they're cascading, it's really a twin copy of a neural synaptic firing order system, like in the human brain.
	And these tubes have a liquid inside them.
	And inside the tube, the liquid looks just like, I'm going to date myself here, methylate.
	How many people remember methylate?
	I don't know if you can still buy it.
	I think you can buy mercurochrome.
	Methylate was stuff that we put on our cuts and scratches when we were kids.
	And you see your mom come at you with that damn pile of methylate.
	It's going to burn.
	Like liquid fire.
	But you know what?
	Never got an infection after you put that stuff on you.
	But you blow on it and it would stop burning.
	That's where you have a lot of people blowing on things.
	That's where we learned it from, man, the methylate.
	But if you hold the methylate up the bottle to the sun, it was incredible.
	It's an iridescent rainbow color.
	It's all the colors of the rainbow.
	Green, orange, blue, and it just glowed like iridescence in the sunlight.
	That's exactly what it looked like in these tubes.
	And in a damaged area, it had the look of methylate.
	Okay, like one of the, I'm looking it up, one of the predominant colors in methylate looks like it's red.
	Yeah, yeah.
	But it's not an ordinary red.
	It's like a magenta red or a poppy red.
	Okay, yeah.
	Actually, they still sell it at Walmart, it looks like.
	Get you a bottle and hold it up to sunlight.
	It's incredible.
	The only thing metallic I can compare it to is burnt chrome.
	You ever seen chrome burnt on a tailpipe?
	It has that iridescent color in it.
	So, it actually sounds a little like, you know, some kind of advanced form of blood.
	Could be.
	I don't know.
	All right.
	So, this is what you can also see.
	Somewhere in there, you also see a seat.
	Isn't that right?
	What seat?
	I've lost you now.
	What?
	You also see a cockpit-like seat.
	No, that's back to the hole where the damage is.
	Yeah, there's...
	A very pretty blue light down in there.
	And I could see, when I crawled down the side, hanging onto the ectoskeleton latticework, I got down to the blowed out area.
	And as soon as I got down there, I could see a blue light.
	Almost like it's coming on.
	It's just illuminating.
	And I asked Rudolph, I said, can I step inside this hole and take a look in there?
	Air Force people said, absolutely not.
	And Rudolph said, yeah, go ahead.
	And there was something that we skipped over some details, you know.
	All right.
	Something happened when I was on the floor and I saw my shadow.
	Oh, right.
	Okay, yeah.
	Well, I asked Rudolph, can I climb up on top?
	And he said, sure.
	Air Force people said no.
	So I just went on up.
	And as soon as I put my hands on the ectoskeleton, I started pulling myself up.
	It's just like a big latticework.
	You just crawl right up the thing.
	But I put my hand past the ectoskeleton and onto the smooth dolphin-like surface.
	And as soon as my skin touched that thing, off came this radiating waves of blue and white Cascading down the hull of this thing.
	I pull my hand back off and it dissipates very quickly.
	Put my hand back on it.
	There it is again.
	I'm going, man, what is this thing doing?
	I thought it must be heat-sensitive recognition alloy.
	That was my guess.
	But come later to find out that's not it at all.
	It's doing something else.
	So I thought, wow!
	And I turned around and looked at Rudolph, and I'm leaving my hand on the hall.
	It's making his waves.
	And the Air Force people and Rudolph are looking at it with their mouths hanging open.
	And I take my hand off of it, and they look up at me, and I put my hands back on it, and the wave starts, and they look back at it again with their mouths hanging open.
	And I knew right then and there, they have never seen that.
	They have never seen that kind of...
	I don't know, interaction or reaction.
	But I could tell they didn't know that things could do that.
	And that started telling me there's something going on with it.
	There's a lot more of this story than I'm getting.
	So I kind of crawl up on top.
	And we all said, absolutely.
	Now the Air Force people are just quiet.
	They're no longer saying no.
	So I get up on top and I'm stepping over the vertebrates.
	And that's when I notice the tubes.
	and the liquid that was in them and so but that was something then when I went down over the side into the hole I could tell by the way the blue light was coming up there was a mumbling down there and I think they've never seen a light before like that so there's more reactions they haven't so at this point Nobody's told you that this is alive,
	but it's starting to sort of activate.
	Are you thinking in your head that it's coming alive or something or that you're triggering it?
	Are you thinking any of this stuff?
	Not at the time.
	I'm just more...
	See, I built one, so I'm not really relating my engine to something alive.
	It was just a whole bunch of metal parts and components.
	I put it together and did get a very similar look, but...
	Now, I knew there was something up with this device.
	It's like it's reacting to certain stimuli when I touch it.
	So, I thought it was some kind of radiation-sensitive recognition alloy, but as I continued climbing all over this thing, I'm starting to pick up something else that this thing may not be just a machine sitting here.
	It might be an ascension entity.
	It might be totally aware, knows what's going on.
	Were you ever...
	I mean, during this time or even later, once it really does seem to exhibit some kind of awareness...
	Because artificial intelligence, I don't think, was around during the 70s.
	So you might not have been thinking about artificial intelligence, but if you thought it was...
	Responding to you, in essence.
	Were you ever afraid?
	That's an excellent question.
	Only the second person ever asked me that.
	The first person to answer me that was David Wilcox.
	That's a great question.
	And a logical answer should be, hell yeah, I was scared to sit.
	But I wasn't.
	I was scared of Rudolph and the Air Force people.
	That's what I'm scared of.
	I knew they were running some kind of agenda, and I don't know what, but I know I'm right in the mix of it, and I have no say about it.
	They scared me, but the device didn't.
	I just got more and more curious about it because of the way things were happening.
	I don't know.
	To answer your question in a single word, no.
	I was afraid of it.
	I was afraid of the humans.
	Okay, can you tell me how tall were you and how much did you weigh then?
	Excellent question.
	At that time, let's see, I was 5'10", and I weighed 175 pounds, probably 180.
	Okay, and when you walked on it, did you feel there was a reaction?
	No, it was very firm.
	I was actually walking on the better part of the ectoskeleton.
	It had plates up on top in between the vertebrates.
	So it felt like you were walking on a floor, a solid substance.
	No give, no sway, nothing.
	And this thing must have been really heavy because it felt no different than if you were walking on a concrete floor.
	It was just very solid.
	Okay, but how high were you when you were up on top?
	Would you say, how high were you?
	At least 15 feet.
	Five feet higher than a basketball goal.
	So the length of a person...
	So the Air Force and everybody is just...
	They're looking up at you.
	Right.
	And I'm looking down at them.
	And that's important because later I get into a really intense argument with them.
	And...
	That was a great place to be standing when you get into an argument like that.
	Because you're elevated way above them.
	And plus it just felt, I don't know, I felt safer up on top of this thing than I did on the floor with them.
	Okay.
	And I don't know why they did it, but I did.
	So you were then propelled to climb into it?
	Is that what happened?
	Yeah.
	I was curious what that...
	I was down in there to see outlines of stuff and it's in the same blue light as the color of bug zappers that insects fly into and they get zapped.
	There's a blue light inside that thing.
	The blue light is what's drawing the bugs in.
	Well, this light was the same color.
	I looked down and I was climbing inside thinking, Oh God, I hope I'm not attracted to this blue light and this is a bug zapper.
	I'm going to just be zipped and I won't be here anymore.
	But anyway...
	But you were thinking that, but you weren't afraid.
	No.
	All I was saying is, I hope this is not a bug zapper.
	You know, this is I'm on.
	So anyway, I get in there and then, as I suggested to the light, man, you can clearly see what the heck went on.
	There was a blast.
	Now this thing is an engine where it snaps in place in an engine bay of some really large craft of some kind.
	So what happened, this thing was locked in its cradle of some big craft.
	Some kind of blast of some kind had to come through the wall of the craft and then hit this propulsion system right perfectly dead center of the you know when when you have a figure eight and where it's the smallest at the very center yeah that area I refer to as the eye of the hurricane and if you know how this engine plan
	is laid out you'll see why that makes so much sense but this thing was hit dead center in the eye of the hurricane And that's really good because it's good and bad.
	It's really good and really bad.
	It's really bad because it will shut the engine down instantly.
	And I'm talking picosecond, a trillionth of a second.
	Because if it doesn't shut down that fast, you lose your containment fields, then the entire metal of this device It's staring at temperatures in the plasma field of 50 million degrees centigrade.
	That's about 10,000 times hotter than the surface of the sun.
	So it would just be disintegrated.
	It would just vaporize.
	But shutting down that fast would save it from damage from its own heat.
	And you've got to remember, everything's moving at the speed of light inside this engine.
	You've got to be aware of that.
	That's 186,756 months.
	Okay, and how do you know that?
	Well, it's the way I built mine.
	It's working, operating on the principle of the speed of light because you are in the process of colliding, speeding up particles and fuel pellets in my case.
	You're speeding them up to the speed of light and you're crashing them into each other.
	So you're looking for fusion.
	Alright.
	That's how detonate your fusion containment.
	So I know that this thing is running on the same principles and it's got to be operating under the same limitations and capabilities as mine is.
	So, except it's just on a bigger scale.
	God almighty, giant scale.
	So anyway, the kind of power that this thing can produce, let me give you an idea.
	We can take an aircraft carrier, a typical aircraft nuclear carrier, and send it to, and we've done this in the Navy, we pull up to Beirut.
	Beirut's infrastructure has just been decimated.
	And you've got people who need help, you know, hospitals and food, water, and all that stuff, and they need power.
	So we can pull a carrier up to a city like that, run these big power cables, giant cables, straight into the city, into their distribution plants, And the nuclear power of that carrier will power that city up.
	That's what we did for Beirut, so they could get things built back and have power to do it.
	And the carrier will sit there for, in this case, almost a year doing that.
	So that's kind of how this system would work.
	Except it's a little bit bigger in power structure.
	So, but this thing...
	This can land on a planet.
	A planet.
	This power unit can disconnect itself out of its cradle bay and be set outside and could even be left.
	And you could power a planet with this thing.
	An entire planet like Earth could be powered by this one thing.
	All right.
	But, you know, when you said it got hit by something that was almost otherworldly, in other words, in all, you know, you didn't know what they had.
	But later on you're going to sort of say that you thought that perhaps the craft itself was hit and crashed and that they discovered it already crashed on the ground.
	But I'm wondering if they aimed something at it, I don't know, like a particle beam weapon or a scalar weapon, I don't know if they had such technology back then as possible.
	I'm telling you right now, there is no power that belongs to man.
	That could blow a hole like this in this thing is because there was all this details.
	What happened was the blast came through the hull of the craft, came through the hull of the power plant, came in at the point of the eye of the hurricane, and it came through this room, which I believe the diagnostic center, There's another one exactly like it, not damaged on the other side.
	So it's got left and right diagnostic centers.
	And there was a chair.
	The chair is gone.
	It just remains of it because the blast came through, went through the chair, disintegrating everything in its path, hit the bulkhead just to the right of the seat.
	And when it blasted through the bulkhead, The next thing it encountered was the plasma containment fields.
	And let me tell you, the power it would take to knock out the plasma containment fields and something like this, there ain't nothing on earth I know of that could do that.
	Nothing.
	You could use a hundred nuclear weapons, this thing would eat them.
	Okay?
	It'd be lunch to this plasma containment field.
	Okay, but they managed it, whoever it was, right?
	Whoever it was and whatever they used, it started to penetrate the containment field, and that's when it shut down, saving the rest of the entire engine.
	Okay, so once this thing...
	I don't know, when you're on it, at a certain point, does the plasma containment field start running again?
	No, not one minute.
	It'll never run again because the bulkhead was damaged as part of the...
	They, you know, you bring up a technical question.
	The way the plasma travels through this engine is different than mine.
	I wonder why.
	It's alien.
	I used these, something really trying to get across to Mark as he draws and stuff.
	I had these plasma things that I could use in the magnetic coils to shape The direction of the plasma I wanted to go in.
	In this case, it was an infinity pattern.
	Theirs did the same, but on the inside of the plasma chamber, I could slid on down further into the plasma chamber and walk through it.
	I built mine with a microscope.
	Now I can walk down standing up.
	You've got to imagine what that's like.
	Did you do that or you didn't do that?
	No, I didn't do it.
	I was having enough to deal with.
	Would it have been dangerous, residual plasma or something?
	No, because it has shut its main drive down and it's not going to start it back up and it won't because and that's what I'm getting to.
	There were these stations of some kind That look like giant crystals.
	I don't know how to describe it.
	It's like giant crystals.
	They were white and green.
	And they were directed in line of sight of each other.
	And I believe the plasma were controlled by these crystals.
	And that's how they controlled their plasma flow.
	I use magnetic fields to move mine.
	They're using some kind of crystal So with the plasma, the plasma would not dissolve the crystal?
	No, because they're encased in their own electromagnetic field.
	They are the originating force of the magnetic field.
	That's what my point is.
	The one crystal section right by the diagnostic station was vaporized.
	So you can't ever turn the engine back on because you've got to replace that crystal section.
	Whoever built this thing, they would have to do that because otherwise they're not going to have continuity.
	And you've got to have continuity in the fields or you're not going to have an engine.
	And that's where everybody stuck today.
	See, what we're talking about is the holy grail of physics on Earth.
	If you can get fusion containment, man, you've got Star Trek, you've got unlimited power, all kinds of things happen.
	Okay, when you say fusion, are you talking about cold fusion or not?
	No, no.
	I just said the temperature these engines run at is 50 million degrees centigrade.
	Does that sound cold?
	No, but...
	Right.
	Well, cold fusion is full.
	Until you show me a running cold fusion process, it's not possible.
	Okay, so it's another kind of fusion.
	Right.
	It's a plasma fusion.
	You can tell you hit a nerve with me.
	I get irritated with this.
	I'm not talking about cold fusion.
	It has nothing to do with it.
	All right, I'm just clarifying.
	That's all right.
	Right.
	I'm working with an orange.
	Cold fusion, an apple, something else.
	I have nothing to do with that.
	All right.
	But the fusion containment, it's hot.
	God Almighty, it's hotter than any sun in nature.
	And that's what gives you such power, too, by the way.
	But...
	Okay, now I want to ask you something about this.
	Isn't it possible?
	I mean, I know that what happens here is this engine even turns on a little more when you put your hand somewhere on the...
	Yeah, well, there's these diagnostic pods.
	I don't know what else to call them.
	And it's got a certain shape of digits that you can emulate with your hand.
	There are...
	A total of four digit places.
	Three of them are for fairly long flanges with an opposing digital thumb, I guess.
	I guess that's what they had, I don't know.
	But if you take your hand, the human hand, and hold it up, you're looking at the back of the hand right now.
	Take your ring finger and your middle finger and put them together.
	Hold them tight.
	Then spread your little finger and your index finger out and move your thumb.
	Stick it straight out.
	That is what I was looking at on those pods.
	If you set your hand down in those grooves, which are recessed down into the pod, your hand will fit.
	Okay, but it's not made for a human hand.
	No.
	It doesn't have five digits.
	It's got four.
	It's got three big digits.
	Okay, so you put your hand down there, right?
	Yeah, it really wasn't smart, but I stick my hand down in there, and these are definitely diagnostic ports.
	It's designed for somebody, and also whoever's interacting with this thing, they're bipedaled at your point, because the chair told me that, the remains of it.
	It has a seat, A cutout where you drop your legs and feet to the floor, and then a back of the chair.
	That means that whatever's sitting there is a bipedal answer point.
	Is there a height?
	Do your feet reach the floor?
	Yeah.
	As a matter of fact, it fit in the chair.
	What was left of it, it fit in just perfect.
	You're looking at a 5'10 bipedal answer point.
	Okay, could...
	When you went to sit in the chair and put your hands there in the controls, I guess, is everybody able to see you still?
	Can they see what you're doing?
	No, they can't see a thing.
	I'm down recessed inside the engine.
	I'm out of sight.
	But occasionally, Rudolph would ask, you okay?
	And I would say, yeah, so they could hear me.
	And...
	That's how he kept track.
	I mean, if I stopped answering, I'm sure they would have come running.
	So I sit down, I put my hand in the groove, and that really wasn't smart.
	Now think about it.
	Because as soon as I did, these rings, sleeves, come interlocking up from the bottom to the top, all the way up to my knuckles.
	It's just these sleeves went over each All four digits were just covered by sleeves at really super speed.
	They're up to my knuckles.
	And then they start tightening down.
	And that's when I'm about to freak.
	Because I don't have one, I have both hands, one on each pod, left and right, and opposing thumbs.
	And if things are locking down and they're getting so tight, I think they're going to cut all ten of my fingers off.
	So I start to scream, and all I get is that I hear something, but I don't know if I'm hearing it through my ears.
	All I hear is Lauren Bacall's voice, very sultry, just saying, you know, shh, be quiet.
	I'm sitting there going, okay.
	And the grip lightened up just a little bit, but it's still pretty tight.
	I'm definitely not going to be able to pull my fingers out.
	So I just had to sit there and see what happens next.
	And at this point, I'm going to skip what happens next.
	It's just for my own personal reasons.
	But anyway...
	Wait, wait, wait, wait.
	So are you saying that you're going to skip whatever this is for personal reasons because you never did reveal it so far or what?
	I have off camera with certain people I have.
	Alright.
	But I'm not going to go into it in detail.
	Alright, so this thing spoke to you in your head or somehow, some way, and you sort of obeyed it in sort of the loose sense of that word.
	Yeah, what are you going to do if your fingers are trapped in a...
	Yeah, I appreciate that, but you stopped screaming or whatever you were going to do.
	I said, calm down, and It's got hold of you like a Chinese handcuff.
	Yeah, no, I appreciate that.
	So then were you scared at that point, or did you really calm down immediately?
	I think my heart was beating so loud I could hear it.
	But I figured if there's anything malice with all this, there's nothing I could possibly do about it at this point.
	But I didn't think I've been through all of this, got to this point, and it's going to be malice.
	I never felt malice at any time, at any point.
	Except for the people outside.
	Right.
	They always worried me.
	Okay, so you're in this thing, you've got your hands in, and then what happens?
	Well, there's some interaction that goes on.
	And the pods release my hands.
	Now I crawl out.
	And there's an entirely different attitude with me about things.
	Because I get up on top, I crawl out of the hole, get up on top of the, I don't know, the exoskeleton plate.
	Okay, but I have to stop you again.
	Did you think it was alive at this point?
	I didn't think, I know.
	Okay.
	Yeah, this thing, this thing is, it's an ascension entity.
	And this is where it's me and you.
	And it knows exactly what's going on, and it's running its own agenda, which I happen to be totally okay with.
	And it absolutely dislikes the people down on the floor, every single one of them.
	It knows them all personally.
	So you know this because it was telepathically communicating with you, this information?
	Or do you think that suddenly you were in sort of a symbiotic...
	You know, entrainment with it where you were kind of almost part of it.
	Well, let's say I can describe some things in better detail than I could before.
	For instance, the power plant and the spacecraft and the crew, all three of them are separate ascension entities, all three.
	But they all three will connect to each other when they're in operation in a symbiotic system.
	Which is the greatest way imaginable to travel through space.
	It's in a symbiotic relationship.
	So your power plant, your craft, and crew all know each other.
	All know what's going on.
	And if you're ever in a battle situation, if you've ever been in the Navy like I have for 11 years, we have, in our situation, we have something called damage control.
	And damage control reacts as if the ship is alive, and the people who are at damage control, they're acting as if they are the ship, and they tell the captain, what's damage, how bad, how quickly can we get underway, how fast can you repair this?
	So, but yet, it's actually everybody's separate entities.
	But now, let's redefine that, where the ship and the power plant and the crew are all symbiotic, and they get hit by something You don't even have to ask for damage control.
	You already know where you're hit, how bad you hit, where the enemy is, where the location.
	All instantaneously.
	You can retaliate back at them without even having to ask.
	Damage control, give me a report.
	Fire control, lock on.
	Get target acquisition.
	Okay?
	Proprietary fire.
	None of that crap goes on.
	It's all instantaneous.
	Okay, so suddenly those men on the floor were the enemy.
	Is that correct?
	As far as that thing was concerned, yeah.
	They did not like that crowd at all.
	And there was an impression.
	They had a name for it.
	And they just refused to work with black arts.
	Which I thought, interesting term.
	I don't know if that's for the benefit of interactions with Sapiens or what that was about.
	Okay, black arts?
	Black hearts.
	Black hearts, okay.
	And did you think that this...
	They had black hearts and they just don't want to talk to them.
	Did you think the craft was female?
	Absolutely.
	And I don't know how a gender base would work in a situation like that.
	Because if you have a gender base, you open up a can of worms to a lot of things.
	Because that means there's different male-female species.
	That means there's population.
	That means...
	They have some kind of way of reproduction.
	I mean, just all kinds of things.
	And it's just...
	I don't know.
	I'm left more...
	I'm left more with more questions than I can.
	Okay, so...
	But at that moment, also, this craft or being was able to calm you down?
	You were calm?
	I was calm through the whole thing until I crawled out and got up and started talking to those people on the floor.
	And then I just...
	They must have knew something happened because I had suddenly become really hostile and aggressive with them.
	Actually, I was just fed up with them because the condescending was so sticky, kind of nice.
	I asked them, I said, so this is yours, really.
	I'll tell you what, this thing's not from the neighborhood, is it, boys?
	It's not ours.
	It's not theirs, the Soviets.
	This thing's from somewhere else.
	You didn't build it.
	You ain't got a clue how it works.
	And I asked you where the people built it, and you tell me, well, son, you know, you're on summer vacation.
	They're on summer vacation.
	I asked you, did they leave any notes?
	And you say to me, well, boy, you know, you have homework.
	Well, they took their homework with them.
	But wait a second, you skipped over something because I remember you telling me that when you came up out of that chamber, so to speak, onto the top, at some point you touched something again, like the skin, and then it gave off a different color.
	That's later.
	That's later?
	Yeah, your brain has not got that register right.
	You're out of sequence.
	All right.
	We're still heading toward that.
	So are you still, when you're talking right now, this conversation you're having, is it, are you standing on top of this craft still?
	Yeah, I'm standing on top of this thing, and this power plant, and I'm looking down at them on the floor, and we are in one pitch argument.
	Oh.
	And they realize that I just, like, put all the dots together.
	And Rudolph is very smart.
	He's figured out something else.
	He's figured out somebody has told me...
	They gave me the key to the answers quiz.
	All of a sudden, putting it all together.
	And so when I told them, I said, it's not from the neighborhood.
	So, how'd you get this device?
	Did you shoot it down?
	They're looking at it.
	Did you dig it up when you were digging this place out?
	And they really got angry on that one.
	I went, oh, so now I hit another nerve.
	So you guys probably dug this thing up when you were building this giant whatever it is underground you got here.
	Maybe this is why you decided to build this groomed lake place to begin with.
	Because you found this.
	Where's this craft that this thing was setting in?
	Where's the crew that's with the craft?
	Did you pickle them in jars?
	Boy, they really got mad on that one.
	Okay, let me ask you, were you communicated with, did you suddenly know, did you visualize at all, were you shown a story in which this thing was actually maybe sent you a visualization of it being shot down and what its actual craft looked like on the outside?
	No comment.
	Okay.
	So it did.
	And so, in essence, you saw the crash.
	You saw the attack that it went through.
	But did you get a picture of who shot it down at that point?
	Because it wasn't probably us?
	No.
	It's something else.
	Did you get a picture of that something else?
	No.
	No, I don't have any visuals of it.
	It's just very big and aggressive.
	It's also very, very old.
	Not thousands, not billions, multiple billions years old.
	The thing that shot it down?
	And the thing that got shot down.
	It's old.
	Okay, alright.
	So, I really don't know all what.
	It's hard to make sense of everything and floods in and, you know, you gotta remember, You're probably dealing with an intellect where I'm probably a beetle trying to understand a nuclear power plant.
	You know, it's kind of that situation.
	All right, well, you don't seem to be doing so badly.
	Okay, so let's continue the story because, you know, we don't have that much time.
	I think people are getting tired.
	Anyway, I came out and I'm arguing with these guys.
	And finally, really nasty, they tell me, get down off of the device.
	And I said, fine.
	I'm so pissed off.
	What I'm pissed off about is that they have this kind of technology, you know, in their control.
	We know nothing about it.
	They're not sharing it with no one.
	Who the hell are these people to make that kind of decision?
	It's like one percenter.
	How do you get to control so much?
	This is the kind of stuff that every person on the planet needs to know about because it affects us all.
	And I don't care whether you're a Russian or Chinese or Korean or whatever you are.
	It doesn't matter.
	Everybody should know about this because this affects us as a race.
	And they're making decisions on who gets to know about it and who doesn't.
	Okay, what about the race that drove it?
	Did you get a visual on those people?
	But I got a feeling, you know, there's something you should be.
	Consider this.
	Not every species in the universe runs on a Julius Caesar calendar.
	And not every species runs through time in a chronological order.
	He may be the only one that does that.
	Matter of fact, there's other species out there that probably refuse to believe that such a creature could exist as a human being does on a timeline.
	So the problem is, is that they're...
	In the Navy, we have a pilot that goes down.
	I'm telling you, it is just maximum priority to go get that guy.
	And we move instantly.
	As fast as human beings can move and equipment, we are in motion to go get that pilot.
	Okay?
	I think everybody understands that and agrees with it.
	So, imagine you've got a ship that's down with a crew.
	They're missing.
	And what may be, what, 45, 55, 60, 70 years of our time may only be one day to these things.
	And their rescue crew is en route.
	So, I'm going to be really pissed off if somebody shows up and they get really angry because some idiots of our race decide to pick a crew, tear up the ship, cut things up, Alright, so you seem to have also gotten the conclusion that the beings in there were pickled, as you call them, and so you actually, I'm getting that you actually have a sense of what they even look like.
	Would they look like greys, Nordics, a reptilian, any idea?
	Not really, just kind of a shadow of a bipedal anthropoid of some type.
	But I know this, I sure hate to be sitting here at my home and our planet suddenly gets vaporized without us saying a word over something that these dummies have done and we never, and I get evaporated for it.
	I mean, I'm going to be really pissed off about that.
	Right.
	You and I and the rest, we're not responsible for this and if we had a chance to approach it, I think we'd do it In a more humane way than the way they're carrying on.
	All right.
	Well, but on the other hand, at least based on what you're saying, it wasn't us that shot it down either, right?
	I hope that intelligence is big enough to figure out that the rest of us had nothing to do with it.
	We don't even know what's going on.
	Well, I mean, but our military didn't shoot it down either, if I understand what you're saying.
	But the fact that they're keeping something like that contained, that's not good.
	That's not speaking well about the race for those individuals.
	And they don't know if they speak for all of us.
	I mean, it's a dangerous situation.
	Okay, so you had all this consciousness when you were coming down and it made you angry.
	And on top of it...
	Yeah, let me tell you what happened.
	I'm on top of it.
	I'm coming down.
	And that's where a lot of dots suddenly come together.
	I'm coming down.
	I'm at the other sphere now.
	It's a twin sphere.
	I'm at the other sphere.
	When my hand hits the smooth surface, it's no longer the blue-white cascading waves going down the hall.
	It now looks like red-orange flames.
	And I take my hand away and I'm looking at it and put it back on.
	And I'm going, what is this?
	So as I am trying to figure out what's going on with this thing, the orange-red flames give way back to the soothing blue-white waves.
	I jerk my hand back and then I realize this thing is alive.
	It's a sentient and it's not heat-sensitive recognition alloy picking up on radiation.
	This thing is picking up on my feelings and I am totally pissed off and it could read it and I'm showing it.
	Then to calm down, it also reflected it.
	So what it's doing, it's reading me like a meter.
	It knows how I'm feeling and reacting and that opens up a tremendous amount of, you know, possibilities of this thing doing so many other things.
	So it's, It's just...
	I mean, you're now looking at something that's not just a machine.
	It's organic.
	It's inorganic.
	It's both.
	It's sentient.
	It's symbiotic.
	It's used to interfacing with other organisms of different backgrounds.
	I mean, my God, what a piece of technology.
	And these dummies just stand there.
	So does this have...
	Does this...
	For you, does this mean that at this point you must know that you're not going to be able to stay there?
	In theory, maybe you know that you're not going to be able to stay in contact with this machine.
	Is there a sense of, you know, maybe anger mixed in with the idea that you're going to be having to leave it?
	Yeah, well, it's...
	I think the biggest joke is going to be on those guys back at Area 51 when they figure out everything.
	But I have other fish to fry at this moment because I'm now thrown into the golf cart and we're leaving the area and the curtain comes back down.
	I know, but before that happened, didn't the machine shut down?
	Yeah.
	No comment.
	Okay, because you told me off the record that you don't think it would ever power up again after you left that machine.
	That was kind of what you at least communicated.
	It can.
	It can for a very simple reason, but to answer your question, it can never power up ever again where it's setting.
	That's actually a very good thing.
	And they thought they got away with something and they really didn't.
	They lost everything.
	But when we were on our way back up to the surface, that's when my problems were just about to go as complex as it could because the real question is this, why did you bring me here?
	Well, Might be because we wanted to show you this electromagnetic fusion containment engine.
	And second reason is damage.
	You might be able to tell us how it works.
	And thirdly, you built one almost just like it and it's up on the desert floor and that one works.
	And that's where the problem is.
	Because as I'm riding back to the surface, I can hear them talking up in front of me and air carols, air carry sounds.
	So they're whispering, but the whispers are coming right back to me sitting at the back seat.
	The cart and I'm listening to them and they said if we don't get him to help us figure out how this engine goes, we're never going to get first strike.
	And I'm sitting there going, why are they playing baseball?
	I never heard that term.
	What is first strike?
	It's 1971.
	No one's ever heard that term before.
	So I'm sitting there and I'm thinking, first strike, why are they going to strike?
	And then I realized And then I just got this impression, and you remember LeMay designed the Valkyrie, the XB-70?
	Yeah.
	XB-70 travels at 85,000 feet at 2,000 miles an hour.
	Makes the B-52 look like an old wheelbarrow.
	And what you do, you put inside the cargo nuclear bay of the Valkyrie, You put in Pithlam with its incredible speed.
	So you're coming in at 2,000 miles an hour, you go through failsafe where you are entering the Soviet airspace, and then you drop Pithlam out, and Pithlam cuts across the sky into their silos so fast that they'll see a streak on their radar and they'll ask, what's that?
	By the time they get what, there's a flash and they're gone.
	So all of a sudden, it all makes sense why the Valkyrie was built, why LeMay got this thing involved, got me involved, and they're looking for a first strike counter weapon for a thermonuclear war.
	The only way you can win MAD, which is what we live under even today, called Mutual Assured Destruction, is to win it by first strike.
	Striking so fast, the enemy has no time to retaliate, and you win.
	Well, I asked LeMay about all this, and I said, What about the submarine, the Soviet sub?
	Oh, we'll estimate we'll lose about 30%, but we find that, you know, acceptable.
	And I'm going, not if you're in the 30%, you won't!
	You know, this is just madness, every bit of it.
	So anyway, that's the problem I had.
	So now we're on our way back up the surface, and I've done figured this out, and what they're wanting, and I'm not going to help them.
	And the problem I'm faced with It's how do you blow up your rocket at a top-secret Air Force Base and all you've got is just yourself?
	So how do you do that?
	A bit of a problem, don't you think?
	So, we get back up to surface and I've got to figure out something.
	I cannot let them have my rocket in its engine because they will figure out the fusion containment drive in fairly quick order.
	So, I'm sitting there.
	Actually, I'm sitting in a golf cart.
	And Rudolph is out talking to the Air Force people and some other guys in Black Foods.
	And I thought, I've got to get out to Pislen as fast as I can.
	So I look over at the hangar door and I go, oh man, there's just one I need.
	So I go over to the hangar door and slide down and sit on the lip of the hangar door right next to the big hub wheel.
	I reach inside the hub wheel and grab a big glob of graphite grease.
	So, I start yelling, screaming, none of this would irritate Rudolph.
	I want to see my rocket for you, take it and all that stuff.
	And he said, just get him out of here.
	So, he puts the two guards, me and the golf cart, and off we go.
	So, we get out to the desert area where it landed and its parachutes were there.
	And it really looked good.
	It was such a pretty thing.
	So I had to...
	I opened up the doors and I told the guards, stand back, the thing might be leaking.
	Now they're more than ready to comply.
	So I take the graphite grease and slide into the induction chambers and start off the cyclotron.
	Ask anybody what happens when deuterium and graphite run into each other in the cyclotron status.
	It's going to be one violent reaction.
	Kind of like nitro and glycerin.
	So anyway...
	But how did you get that grease into your...
	Did you put it in your pocket?
	I mean, was it all over your hands?
	How did you manage that?
	It's just a glob that's in the center of my palm and you just close your hand lightly.
	So it's not very big?
	No, I don't need...
	My God, I just need a speck.
	I don't need much, but More than enough.
	Anyway, I closed the doors and set the ignition process to 90 seconds.
	Then I didn't think about something.
	I tell the guards, if things leak and I think it's going to explode, we better run for it.
	So we get in the car and we're going really fast and then the guy asked me a really good question.
	He said, what is the safe distance?
	Well, I hadn't thought about it.
	If it goes nuclear, Oh God, I told him, Chicago?
	They didn't like that answer.
	So I was hoping it doesn't go nuclear, because if it does, you're not going to have Green Lake, not as you know it.
	It's going to be gone.
	So fortunately it didn't go, it just went conventional.
	Boy, it really blew up.
	I think the biggest thing they ever found was about the size of my thumb.
	So, that was the end of that.
	And that's why the name of my story and the book, people wonder, when are you ever going to put your book?
	I've had a book inside your computer.
	It's a 400-page book, and it's called America's Fall from Space.
	Because on June 20th, 1971, America fell from space.
	It could have been that you basically lost Star Trek.
	Okay, but you at this point, what you've done in your mind is you have sort of saved the human race from destroying itself by a first strike using your technology, right?
	No, that sounds very highfalutin and noble and everything and me, wonderful, me, great.
	No, not really.
	Maybe you can see it.
	I never saw it that way.
	I just saw it as I just had to prevent From something I built.
	I was trying to build a power plant for you.
	And then along the road, I got, you know, detoured and derailed into something perverted where you want to build a weapon system.
	And I never, I never, never in my thoughts, I never thought about building a weapon system with it.
	Okay, but at 17 years old, this is a very sophisticated line of reasoning that you actually had to come to this conclusion right after leaving this alien craft, in essence.
	And do you think that the craft itself had a role, maybe in, you know, in a sense, were you in communication with it in such a way that it planted that thought for you to do that to your own rocket?
	Or do you think that it was only your idea?
	That's an interesting question.
	Really, I don't know how to answer that because I don't know.
	One part begins, the other one's ways off.
	Can't tell anymore.
	It's kind of blurry.
	It was very hard to imagine this.
	26 and a half months, 24-7, seven days a week is all you ever did.
	Very difficult to go to high school and be doing this at the same time.
	And you've created something that doesn't exist at that moment.
	And the potentials of it is just unlimited.
	And it would mean so much good for so many people and for the entire planet.
	It would really change a lot of things.
	But yet, because powers involved have an entirely different agenda, Which is not healthy for most of us.
	They force me into a situation where I have to destroy the very thing that took me 26 and a half months to build.
	And it's one of the finest pieces of work I've ever done in my life.
	And I'm going to have to just disintegrate it.
	There's no difference than asking a parent to put a gun to their child's head and blow their brains out.
	You're going to have to kill the very thing you created.
	Right.
	So you did this, you know, in really a very short period of time between when you left that craft and when you actually...
	I mean, you were already reaching the surface.
	You already planned this event.
	This destruction of your own baby, so to speak.
	Right.
	So...
	At this time, you know, I talked to Mark Richards, Captain Mark Richards, who is a captain in the Secret Space program, who actually was a little bit taken aback by the story, because he is one of the few people who is able to fly An artificially intelligent craft called Minerva.
	That is female.
	That comes from another race of beings.
	And he describes that and his being having special abilities to connect with this craft that very few other humans have.
	And it's a very similar story to what you're talking about with this damage craft.
	And so it's really a fascinating kind of situation we've got here.
	Well, I don't know his story personally, but I don't consider myself anything special.
	I consider myself as common as dirt.
	And just, you know, for God's sake, I'm a West Virginia hillbilly, for God's sake.
	Yeah, but, you know, you're a very smart one.
	Now, this also destroyed your career.
	I mean, did they try to grab you and throw you in jail?
	I mean, they must have...
	This Rudolph guy must have been livid when this happened, right?
	Oh, man.
	That's...
	I get back to the hangar.
	He sees a detonation out there.
	And it looked like a mohawk going off.
	It's such an explosion.
	And, um...
	This just tells you how smart Rudolph is.
	Not a word.
	He's just looking at me.
	He's looking out there.
	He looks back at me.
	He's looking at my body from the top of my head to my feet.
	And then finally he walks over and he grabs my left hand and he rolls the palm over and he looks at the grease.
	He turns and looks at the hangar door hub.
	He looks back at me.
	He looks back at the fifth one.
	Then looked me right in the eye and says, very clever.
	Very clever.
	He said, that's going to cost you the rest of your life.
	And then he told me how he has a cadaver there.
	That's a 17-year-old.
	They're changing his dental records.
	Master's going to burn the body.
	Send it back to White Sands, who will send it to my parents, and say I died in an explosion, a mishap at White Sands, and I will be there for the rest of my entire life.
	And this is a guy that killed thousands of people in Meadowberg.
	So these blue eyes I'm staring into is a pure sociopath.
	He's a costanto.
	Right.
	And I'm sitting there going, oh God, I am in such trouble.
	But, well, I had some colorful metaphors for him.
	He hits me.
	He hits me so hard that my lower teeth come through my lower lip.
	And I hit the ground, and I'm spitting blood everywhere.
	And I have this interesting scar on the inside.
	But anyway, I hear all these guns cocking, and I'm thinking, oh, great, you know, everybody wants to shoot me dead, probably.
	So I look up, and guess where all the gun barrels are pointing?
	At Rudolph.
	Think about it.
	This is a German Gestapo.
	These are U.S. Air Force personnel.
	They themselves, if they're old enough, or their fathers, fault this guy.
	Now, this guy just smacked the living daylights out of a teenager from Ohio.
	How do you think these Air Force people are feeling at this moment?
	And I'm looking up, and I'm spitting blood, and I tell Rudolph, You know what?
	I don't think World War II is over with, is it, guys?
	They went, no, it's not.
	So Rudolph had a real problem at that moment.
	And I thought, how interesting that this is developing the way it is.
	Anyway, I get drug off to a room by the black suits, and they locked me in this room, and I sit there and wait.
	Seemed like I was there forever, but I probably wasn't there for maybe eight hours.
	And it's just a room with one door and a light bulb hanging from the wire.
	And I'm really seriously thinking about, how can I kill myself?
	Because the plans are burned up back home.
	I just blew up pits from them.
	If I do myself in, they've got absolutely no way of reconstructing nothing.
	So I got them.
	So I've got to figure out how to take myself out.
	And then things are changing.
	There's a big ruckus in the hallway.
	Door flies open.
	And they're tailed by the frame, square-built frame.
	And this big stogie going back and forth in the mouth, that is General Curtis LeMay standing there, and he's got this full colonel that was in the golf cart by his tie, and he's banging from wall to wall.
	And I don't know if you know this or not, but the way things are structured with the Air Force Ellis and Area 51 come under the jurisdiction of SAC, Strategic Air Command, and who was the head of SAC? LeMay.
	Who put these commanding officers at these bases?
	LeMay.
	That's why he's up there.
	He had flew.
	What happened was, I didn't tell you why all this was going on, Blue Beret Colonel Williams escapes He gets to a radio and calls LeMay and tells him, Rudolph tucked me somewhere and tells him where.
	So LeMay gets in his private jet, a saber liner.
	It's like a Lear.
	Bigger than a Lear.
	And he flies straight into Area 51 to pick me up.
	That's how I get out of there.
	So he puts me...
	Okay, now I want...
	That's great.
	But I want to ask you something, which I don't know if you've ever thought about this.
	Because, yes, you got your father to destroy the plans and you destroyed the rocket.
	But is it possible that you might have been mind-controlled, taken, maybe even abducted at a later date, and gotten your information in your head downloaded?
	I know this sounds a little bizarre, but...
	You know what I'm saying?
	In other words, you might have gotten away then or even then.
	If it did happen, how would I know?
	I'd be mind controlled.
	Right.
	No, I don't feel anything like that.
	Nope.
	That's why I just don't give a crap about Area 51, this story, or anything else that goes with it, because I've had a really good, happy life in corporate America.
	I did really well.
	I retired when I was 50.
	Between my portfolio, my full Navy pensions, all the other stuff, I've been doing great.
	And, you know, I'm not going to burn my life up trying to figure out what did, why, who was wearing, what's going to happen next.
	I just don't care.
	You know, I have a life, and I went on and lived it.
	And it's been a pretty good life.
	It's not what I wanted.
	What I wanted was not to get abducted, which comes right after this part of the story.
	The next time I get abducted...
	Oh, right.
	You were put into, what, the Army?
	No.
	They first...
	Well, LeMay flew me back to Wright-Patterson.
	Then he had his car and driver take me back to Mount Vernon, where I lived, and I was delivered back home.
	And he told me that he's going to burn the paper trail as best he can.
	Mainly because he's trying to cover his own butt.
	That's what it is.
	Because all this was illegal.
	And it was left to have a whistle blown on him by Congressman John Ashbrook.
	He was very much left of the Boy Scouts.
	And he said it was illegal what they're doing with a teenager, a minor.
	You know, running through all these operations and brain draining and all that stuff.
	He got mad and he was going to turn them all in and have a Senate hearing committee, congressional hearing, and that's when Rudolph started doing his thing.
	What I wanted was, I went back to high school, a rising senior.
	That story I just told you is how I spent my summer vacation of my junior year in high school.
	So anyway, and sure enough, we were asked, what did you do for the summer?
	And they wanted to know what happened with me and the English teacher, and I just wrote, I worked at Pizza Hut.
	It's just an absurd and insane thing.
	Okay, but at a certain point, they basically got you again, right?
	Yeah, what happened was, LeMay said, he warned me, he said, You're going to go back to high school, you can graduate, but I'll tell you, they are not through with you.
	I will try to do what I can to help you, but you are.
	One thing that you can do, don't ever agree to build another rocket of any kind and do not work on fusion containment for most of your life.
	And I said, okay, great to see that.
	So, I'm in graduation now.
	It's June 4th, 1972.
	I'm in the front of the high school with all my fellow friends, classmates, shaking hands with the parents as they go by.
	I've got a scholarship.
	I have a scholarship to anywhere I want to go.
	Anywhere.
	And so I thought, man, this is exactly what I want.
	I want either particle physics or maybe theoretical physics.
	Get my PhD and go into an institution of some kind and teach.
	I just want to teach kids all this stuff that we could do.
	That's what I wanted.
	However, there was a little different plan.
	And I'm standing there with shaking hands of parents and it's about 90 degrees, so hot.
	I'm in cap and gowns.
	And I reach over and I grab this hand.
	I'm not even looking at it.
	But the first thing I noticed, I thought I was some mother because the hand was ice cold.
	And I turn my head and look at them.
	There's two guys standing there in black suits with mirror sunglasses.
	And they hand me this letter.
	And I step back and I open up the letter and it says, Greetings.
	Do you know what that means?
	I'm drafted.
	I am drafted right on the spot.
	It's 1972, drafted and shut down in 1975.
	So they grab me, still in my cap and gown, we go flying across the parking lot.
	And what's interesting is that on this biography, we have my classmates that this producer found.
	She found my classmates.
	And they're all old adults now.
	We all are.
	But they'll tell you, yeah, we wonder what happened.
	You just disappeared in that station wagon.
	You're gone.
	And your parents were screaming and crying.
	And somebody yelled, legal conscription.
	And I went, that's exactly right.
	What that means is that you are legally kidnapped.
	There's nothing you can say about it because the draft is on.
	I'm a 1A and my draft number was, I think, 16.
	So they had me.
	So off we went.
	And we drive for about an hour and a half to Port Columbus.
	We go down to the military air transport section of the airport.
	You see them at all airports.
	Where you see the military planes, that's Mac.
	So, we get out and there's a jet waiting for me.
	A little private jet.
	So, starting to get in the head toward the jet and out of the hangar comes a truck and all these Air Force people come piling out and they've all got M16s And everybody's cocking their guns.
	The black suits pull out their MPK-5s.
	Everybody's cocking guns, pointing at each other.
	And there's going to be one gun battle that you're not going to believe.
	And I thought, God almighty, I don't believe this.
	So the Air Force people are claiming me.
	They want me to go where this plane's going, which is heading toward Langley, home of the CIA. So...
	I go to Colonel Williams, who's obviously standing there with his guns, and I just asked him, his name is Arthur, and I said, Arthur, please let me go with these guys.
	Look at everybody.
	You know, the MPK-5 fires 35 rounds every five seconds.
	The M16 is about the same amount.
	It's going to be a firefight.
	A lot of people are not going to go home.
	I said, let everybody go home with their family.
	I'll just go home with this guy and let's just Go at it, okay?
	Just let it go.
	And he finally did.
	But you've got to remember, Wayne was really kind of attached to me.
	He thought I was just a nice kid, I guess.
	He just liked me.
	He didn't want to see me going, but I just begged him to let it go.
	So I get on board and we fly away.
	And no time at all, I'm there at Langley.
	I mean, this Langley building has changed so much over the years.
	It's just crazy how many times they've rebuilt that building.
	But at the time I was there in 1972, I was in a wing of a building where I could see the main body of the building.
	And this wing was set up.
	It looked just like a hospital.
	It was a hospital room with a hospital bed and all the oxygen hose and all that stuff.
	So I thought, I wonder what this is about.
	The door opens up.
	In walks Rudolph and other guys, his friends, in white coats.
	And they drag him to this table and they throw back the cloths.
	And there's all these needles and bottles and stuff.
	And I'm trying to read the labels quickly on the bottles.
	And sure enough, sodium pentothal, sodium barbitol, all the sodium families.
	And I thought, God, he's really trying to rip my brain apart.
	So I try to do fighting when there's too many of them, and you're stripped naked.
	I know how a woman feels when examination.
	They put you on a cold stainless steel table.
	Just awful.
	And strap down, can't do anything.
	And then on my left hand, I'll never forget to have a really good-sized vein on my left hand.
	That needle went in, and it felt like liquid fire coming up my arm.
	And when it got to my neck, to the coronary artery, that's the last thing I remember.
	Oh, so they did get, they actually did exactly what I said.
	Yeah, they did.
	And anyway, I remember coming around, I don't know, a day or day and a half later, I didn't even open my eyes, and I could hear him talking, and there was arguments going on between Rudolph and the other people, and he said that he's been under almost two days.
	You're not supposed to put a person under studying barber tunnel.
	Penicill and any of that stuff for more than 30 minutes.
	I've been under two days.
	And they probably still hadn't gotten what they wanted.
	And Rudolph, they said, he's going to be a vegetable.
	And he said, I don't care.
	You know, pumped in again.
	And they did, and I went out.
	So another day goes by, I wake up, and I'm a mess on that table.
	And I remember a big argument out in the hallway, people yelling stuff, and some guy came in and said, well, you're going to go to the Army.
	We're going to send you to Vietnam.
	I thought, oh, they're going to kill me.
	Good.
	I'm all for that.
	And then he said, would you work on rockets?
	I said, never.
	So, big argument out in the hallway, he got cuts back.
	And he says, how do you feel about jet engines?
	I went, those are defensive.
	I could work on that.
	So I goes back out.
	Moore comes back in and says, you're going to the United States Navy.
	And I was with the Navy for 11 years.
	Oh, right.
	All right.
	Yep.
	So, anyway, that, yeah, and it's Moore's story.
	It was Navy that got Rudolph, they removed Rudolph out of my life.
	After they found I was really handy in the Navy.
	So, the second time they grabbed me didn't cost me one day.
	It cost me 11 years.
	I never got to go to universities like I wanted to and get the PhD.
	However, once I got out of the Navy, the Admiral asked me, these pile of papers.
	I said, yeah, what is that?
	They said, it's you.
	I said, what are you talking about?
	These are job offers from the aerospace companies that's worked with you for the last 11 years.
	They all want you.
	Who are you going to work for?
	We've got a pool going.
	I said, really?
	And I said, can I look through the stack?
	He said, they're yours.
	Take them with you.
	So I looked through them, came back, and Adam said, well, who are you going to work for?
	So we know who wins the pool.
	And I said, all of them at the same time.
	I'm going to open my own company.
	called Intersect Incorporated and I'll just become a consultant and I've worked for everybody.
	Adam smiled real big and said, Dad, I won!
	He goes, that's what I said you would do.
	And so for the next 35 years, that's what it did.
	And it did really well.
	You already see some stuff in the spin-off division.
	My gosh.
	You really should let me give you I have a whole program called Spinoff, and I'll show you some of my work I've done.
	All right.
	Now we're going to have to close this down.
	This is fabulous.
	You did a great job.
	Everyone's been hanging in the whole time.
	So thank you so much.
	But this is like the longest interview we've done online in a live setting.
	You sound like Art Bell.
	And everything hung in there, and I'm so glad for that.
	I do want to thank you so much for doing this.
	It's just extraordinary.
	I'd like you to wrap it up and give me some parting words.
	Let everyone know.
	I just want to let everyone know tomorrow at 1 p.m.
	I have Catherine Austin Fitz.
	She's going to talk about the global financial situation.
	And so tune in back in for that.
	But tonight, David Adair, you are an amazing guy.
	And this is a A phenomenal story, and I sure would like to see it made into a movie.
	There's a reason to have you back, so we'll do it.
	And if I ever get to see you in person, it would be great to do an in-person interview as well.
	So, thank you.
	Is there any parting words you'd like to say to the audience?
	Yeah.
	Obviously, I'm a science guy, but I'm a contradiction in the area because I'm a People-powered science person.
	You don't get that every day.
	Right.
	I just love people.
	I really do.
	All kinds of whatever country.
	It doesn't matter.
	You're a human being.
	I just really care about you people.
	Everything I've done in my entire career, I have done stuff that's made its way into the public service.
	You use so many things I've created, you have no idea.
	That's me that did it.
	And that was the whole idea.
	The only way I want to be remembered is, oh, he's so great, he's so wonderful.
	No, that's not how I want to be remembered.
	All I want to be remembered as, people would say, James Adair, man, he was a good and faithful servant.
	That's how.
	Fair enough.
	Now I'm going to leave people with a bit of a cliffhanger here because I know that you also were part of the Stephen Greer Disclosure Project.
	I read about that and I saw that you were kept in a room and not allowed to testify and that Greer was basically in on the cover-up and that somebody told him not to allow you to testify.
	And I'm very glad that you're talking.
	You're out there talking nowadays.
	But we're going to revisit that.
	I'm going to have you back on the show, and we're going to talk about all of that, okay?
	Sure.
	That'd be fine.
	Yeah, there was a lot of crap that went down that area.
	Sherry, Adam, Act, that whole crowd of God of mine.
	And, well, it's important to know that, you know, the cover-up is still in force and there are plenty of people that are, you know, have tried to shut you up and probably are trying again right now.
	And I know that we've been shot with all kinds of weaponry, electronic and otherwise, while I'm doing this interview.
	And I can tell you that because I'm I can feel it.
	And that's just what goes with the territory.
	But, you know, it's just wonderful that you're out on the circuit talking about the truth about what happened to you.
	Yeah, I'm just doing it for...
	Just to show y'all, you know, you can go through all this stuff.
	You can still have a normal life.
	You can still raise a family.
	All that kind of stuff is still possible.
	They have won everything like they want you to think.
	And it's not true.
	I'm a walking day every example of it.
	I mean, for 11 years, I was with that crowd.
	And I worked for them, did so many projects.
	Now, unfortunately, I can't tell you a single thing about it because I'm under a national security oath because I was an adult when they did that one to me.
	But too bad because some of the best stories I've got is in that world.
	But the whole thing is I still was able to serve.
	That's why I stayed 11 years, because I was actually doing some really good, making a difference for you guys.
	But I just like people.
	I would always want to do something for all of you.
	Well, that's a wonderful thing, and obviously you're quite a high-level soul, and that's wonderful to see and to hear.
	Yeah, I don't want people to think, don't ever say, Oh, he's so wonderful.
	He's so great.
	He's amazing.
	I could care less.
	I don't even care if you remember my name.
	Just know that this stuff has been done and you can stand up against the force and just by sheer standing, it just drives them crazy.
	They just can't stand it.
	So, I'm still here.
	I'm not dead.
	I haven't been threatened or coerced.
	I have been visited.
	But that was by former bosses and stuff.
	They advised me certain things to do and I've always been a good little sailor and I comply.
	And that's why I'm still here.
	Alright, well, fair enough.
	Listen, I want to thank you again.
	I'm going to let you go.
	I do want to have you back on the show.
	You know, it's been fabulous, and I think everyone will agree.
	So, everyone, thanks for listening, and I want to say goodnight to everyone.
	Goodnight, David, and thank you again for coming on the show.
	I don't know what other people think, but I think very highly of you.
	I appreciate that, and I just hope y'all feel a little bit better about things.
	It's not all that gloom and doom out there, y'all.
	Just don't let them overwhelm you.
	It's just...
	I lived a happy, normal life despite all the stuff that went on with me.
	And I had a terrific wife who died 14 months ago.
	But I had 20 fabulous years with her.
	And since she's not here is why I'm talking to y'all again.
	Because...
	Otherwise, I would have stayed right next to her and not moved anywhere.
	All right.
	Okay.
	Thank you so much, and take care.
	Be safe, okay?
	All right.
	And we'll be back in touch with you, okay?
	Okay.
	Appreciate it.
	Take care.
	Bye-bye.
	Quite an extraordinary man, no doubt about it.
	So we will have him back to get some more of his story in the near future.
	And thanks for listening and for supporting Camelot.
	And please do tune in to see Catherine Austin Fitz tomorrow at 1 p.m.
	Pacific time.
	And of course that will go on my YouTube channel as well.
	So take care and have a great night.
	Good night.

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