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Sept. 21, 2016 - Project Camelot
01:08:27
JON GRIGGS – POLICE CORRUPTION, TERRORISM & COVERUP
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Hi everyone, this is Carrie Cassidy from Project Camelot and I have a very interesting guest this evening.
This is a very hot story.
This is someone who, as far as I know, has not come forward too much in public yet.
And that's about to change.
So hopefully this story will be picked up and he will get some support out there.
This is a whistleblower.
He is doing what you may say is...
The Serpico thing and finding it not that easy.
Times have not made it any easier on whistleblowers in the police department and in law enforcement, as you can maybe appreciate.
And it's all the more important at this time that we do have such people that are willing to put themselves on the line to reveal the corruption and things that are going on behind the scenes in areas that the average person has no access to.
So we rely on whistleblowers to tell us the truth about what's going on behind the scenes in these organizations and certainly law enforcement and this area that John Griggs, who is my guest, has a background in. who is my guest, has a background in.
And we're going to bring him on the show just shortly.
And he is going to be talking all about his experience.
And so I hope that all of you will welcome him.
And he is a member of the...
Let's see, it's called the Oath...
Actually...
John, what's it called?
The Oath Keepers.
Yeah, the Oath Keepers.
And I've had some dealings with them in the past.
So it's great to know that he's actually part of that organization.
And so what I'm going to do is put on the identifying banner here and then we'll get started.
And there is a website link on my website.
Home page for John Griggs on my home site, Project Camelot.
Obviously, and you can go over and take a look at what he's written about himself.
It's not that simple a story.
I think it's fairly complex, but it's well worth taking the time to look, and we'll get some clarity here when we talk to him.
So, John, welcome to the show, and it's great to have you on the show.
on the screen so say hello to everyone hello everyone thank you thank you for listening to me tonight and thank you miss carrie for having me on i really do appreciate it no problem uh it's you know your story is very compelling uh i think that again more people need to come forward that have experience like yours i'm sure you're not alone out there and uh They are very few and far between,
so go ahead and give yourself an introduction.
What we'd like to know is sort of the various titles you held as you went through the system, became a police officer, and then we can roll out your story as well.
Sure thing.
My name is John Griggs.
I'm 31 years old.
I was in law enforcement for the better part of about eight years.
I started my career whenever I was 21, actually about a week after my 21st birthday.
I started with the Paducah McCracken County DES Police and the unit was shut down due to funding a little while after I started.
So I began a career with the Kentucky Department of Corrections and worked at Eddyville, the Kentucky State Penitentiary.
It was a maximum security prison.
I received a lot of good training there and I was at the in-service police academy before that.
So I had a lot of good training.
I worked at Eddieville until 2012.
In 2012, my house burned down and I relocated to St.
Louis, Missouri.
I took a job with the state of Missouri as their gang task force officer for the Eastern Missouri Correctional Complex.
And I was responsible for founding their first gang task force unit, creating the SOPs and basically the policies Involved in identifying, validating, interviewing suspect and known gang members.
Okay, so in the end, you were actually, were you fired?
Yes, I was.
I was terminated.
Okay, and what was the reason for your termination?
The supposed reason?
For theft.
Okay, so Perhaps we can start in the early days, and we'll wind our way over to that last thing that happened.
And also, if you can give the chronology.
So you started out in what year in the police department?
2006.
All right.
And you had a very good rating, isn't that right, in terms of your service?
Yes, ma'am.
I received various awards and awards.
Numerous letters of commendation for jobs well done, even at my old department before I was terminated.
Okay.
And you left there, you say, because your house burned down.
Is that correct?
Yes, ma'am.
Okay.
Now, why did your house burn down?
Was that an isolated incident?
Did the whole neighborhood burn down?
Or were you attacked?
Actually, just about the whole neighborhood did burn down.
It was a newer duplex unit, and it was an electrical fire.
Okay.
And it burned down four different duplex units.
Wow.
But that was, it was unrelated.
Okay, so as far as you know, it was unrelated.
Yes, ma'am.
Yeah, that was before I came forward.
Okay, so you weren't, you were still just doing your job.
And were you, did you have a certain title, like as a police officer?
What was your, you know, is there a designation that we should be aware of at that point?
In 2012, at that point, our unit had been shut down, so I was working as a corrections officer at the maximum security prison in 2012, and then I relocated to St.
Louis three months after my house burned down.
So about January of 2013 is when I started with the Missouri Department of Corrections.
Okay, and when you went to work for the Missouri Department of Corrections, was that when you were assigned to the gang to create the gang Whatever you call it.
Yes, ma'am.
Okay.
And had you noticed anything unusual prior to that?
No, ma'am.
Not for at least a year.
Okay.
So you started this, it was in, well, was it in Missouri or Kentucky where you started this unit?
It's right outside of St.
Louis, Missouri.
Okay.
So you worked for a year, and then what happened?
Well, in January of 2014, actually January 14, 2014, I was interviewing two gang members, and I noticed that their demeanor was something was just not right, and I noticed dilated pupils, sluggish reactions to simple questions, and I suspect in narcotics use.
I ordered these guys to be submitted to a drug test, and the officer who was in charge of drug testing was stood down and told not to drug test these two.
So that was a big red flag for me.
At that point, I took another officer and a sergeant with me and went and searched their cells and discovered hydromorphone pills.
Okay, so what are those pills?
They're morphine.
Oh, okay.
And then what happened?
Well, after I discovered them, I called the shift supervisor, and she came to my location, and she looked at them, and she told me to give them back.
And I was completely blown away.
She told me that I couldn't identify what they were, and I would just have to give it back to them.
So I went and got online and did a pill identification.
I contacted the investigator, and I turned the evidence over to him.
Okay.
And I knew...
After that, you know, I knew there was something that was just not right.
You know, who would tell someone, especially an officer, to give back narcotic drugs to two gang members in prison?
Okay.
And was there anyone, you know, isn't there an oversight unit that when something's wrong, you go to that person or whatever?
Was this the investigator that you went to or was that somewhere else?
Yes, ma'am.
That was an investigator that I went to, but I eventually went to the Corrections Oversight Committee Chairman and the Director for the Public Safety Oversight Committee of Missouri.
And what happened?
That's a little later in the story, but...
Okay, well, before we get there, isn't there something to do with terrorism that you also noticed about these individuals?
Not these two.
This was like the breakthrough moment wherever I noticed that there was something wrong.
Okay.
So at this point, you just went back to doing your job.
And when you say you worked, were you working like on the street, so to speak?
No, ma'am.
I was working in a correctional unit, the Missouri Eastern Correctional Complex.
Okay, so these individuals who had, were they already in jail?
Yes, ma'am.
And how did you end up dealing with them if they were, you know, they were already assigned to your unit?
Is that, what was that going on?
No, ma'am, they were suspected of gang activity, so it was my job to go verify what type of gang member and if they did have any associations with security threat groups or gangs to investigate that aspect.
So did you interrogate them?
Basically, yes, and that's when I discovered that there was something wrong, that they were definitely under the influence of something.
So they were inside a jail, and they had access to drugs, is what you're basically saying?
Yes, ma'am.
That's very interesting.
Okay.
And I was told to give the drugs back to them.
I understand.
Okay, so did you do that or not?
No, ma'am, absolutely not.
I contacted the investigator and turned it all over to him.
Okay, and then what did he do about it?
Nothing.
He was told not to do anything about it.
Okay, so then what did you do at that point?
Did you continue your job for a while and come across this?
Yes, I did.
Okay, so you went back to work and just realized something was wrong, and then what happened?
A few weeks later, I found the document, and it was in a suspected...
With a suspected gang member, and I had to talk to this individual, and I was not ready for what I found.
In his possession, I found a list of ingredients that gave detailed analysis and detailed instructions on how to set off an IED, and what chemicals to use, I mean, how to build it and everything.
Okay, and an IUD, is that what you call it?
An IED, an improvised explosive device.
Oh, I-E-D. Okay.
Alright, so you found this information, and then what'd you do?
I contacted my supervisor immediately and let him know what I had, and I immediately confiscated the suspect's address book because I wanted to know who he was in contact with.
He obviously had knowledge on how to make a large steel explosive device, so I wanted to know who this guy was talking to, so I seized his contacts list.
Okay, and was this normal procedure for you to do that?
Yes, ma'am.
Okay, so you seized his contact list, and he was, again, this is an individual who's already in jail.
Is that correct?
Yes, ma'am, on weapons charges.
I see.
Okay, so you're investigating him as part of the gang activity job that you do.
So you're talking to him.
You find out that he's got these other associations.
And did you question him about that, the bomb-making materials?
I sure did, actually.
I mirandized him and read him his rights.
And he did waive his rights and talk to me a little bit.
And after I notified my supervisor and showed him what I had found and gave the material to him, he informed me to give it back to the individual and to leave it alone.
Okay, so this is the second.
Is this exactly the same person on the prior incident that told you to leave it alone, or is this a different person?
This is a different captain.
Okay, so and this person is a captain in what is capacity?
He would be the shift commander for that correctional unit.
Okay, so at this point you're told you had gotten his list of contacts, and explain what you did once you got those contacts also.
I immediately took him to a copy room and started making copies of them.
I made as many copies as I could at that time, because I knew that I had something serious, and just by looking through these contacts, I was seeing names of foreign individuals, and I knew that he was in contact with someone he probably shouldn't have been.
So I immediately started making copies of that book and distributing it to my coworkers.
My sergeant who was there, I gave her a copy of it.
And immediately, I took the address book.
It's crazy that it had to go this far, but I did not give it back to him.
I left work.
I said that I was sick.
I contacted the St.
Louis County Police Intelligence Unit, and I was there until 2 o'clock in the morning and turned everything I had over to them.
Okay, now, why did you go to the county intelligence unit?
Is it because the captain had told you to just give it back and leave it alone?
Yes, ma'am, and I was very concerned that because of the detail in this instruction list, had me very concerned that this guy possibly knew where an IED was, or that he was teaching people how to build them, or that, you know, I was worried about public safety at that point.
So I contacted the St.
Louis County Police Intelligence Unit because I had actually dealt with them before and they're pretty professional.
All right.
And you explained that your captain, what he told you to do and that you didn't do it.
Did you tell him that?
Yes, ma'am.
They wanted a detailed report on that.
All right.
So then what happened?
At that point, I got in contact with another investigator from the Inspector General's office and we began working on the case and investigating it.
And, um, he was told basically to leave the whole thing alone.
He actually contacted his friends with Homeland Security and was told to disregard it.
And that guy was fired as well.
Incredible.
So, okay.
And how, what was the period of time in this, in which this took place?
I mean, a week or a couple of weeks or?
This happened in February and we were terminated in September.
Now he will not go on the record.
Actually, he, um, We don't know where he's at.
Did he go into hiding, do you think, or do you think that something happened to him?
I don't think anything's happened to him, because I would have heard about that, but he definitely went into hiding, for sure.
We actually tried to find him for this lawsuit, because he's a credible piece of this, and my attorney cannot find this guy.
Okay, so you filed a lawsuit at what point?
After I was terminated, and that...
I'll tell you what, that really, I've got the termination letters here, and that was just a, it was mind-blowing.
They actually terminated me.
It was mind-blowing.
I contacted a state representative after I contacted the St.
Louis County Police Intelligence Unit, and I told him everything.
The man who was in charge of the Oversight Committee, and this is a state congressman, And I let him know everything.
I gave him all these documents, told him how concerned I was.
And I come to find out in Discovery and in the lawsuit, he's given it back to them.
He's given it back to...
Okay, he gave it back to who?
To my supervisors.
I typed up a detailed report and sent it to him, and he gave it back to them.
Okay, and how did you find out he gave it back to them?
During discovery in my lawsuit.
Alright, so not until several months later.
Because you're saying this happened in February of that year.
What year was this?
This was in February 2014.
Okay, so in February this happened, and then You went up the chain of command, so to speak.
You didn't get any help there.
You were told basically, and they were told to forget about it as well.
Were they surprised or did they sort of communicate to you that they were surprised?
Or is this the guy who went missing?
Yes, ma'am.
When he and I were working on this whole thing together, he was just blown away by the lack of cooperation.
With this whole incident.
Okay.
He was just absolutely blown away by it.
I mean, this whole thing, there's nothing normal about it.
I understand.
Okay, now, could you describe this person that you were kind of like working with?
Was he a more seasoned police officer, or what was his title?
He was an investigator for the Inspector General's Office in the state of Missouri, and to the best of my knowledge, he had over 10 years' experience Investigating different types of negligence and criminal law violations within correctional institutions.
Okay.
Was he a lawyer?
No, ma'am.
He was an investigator.
All right.
So at that point, both of you were told to leave it alone.
Is that correct?
Yes, ma'am.
All right.
How long after you were told to leave it alone did he go missing?
In September.
Okay, so quite a few months later.
Yes, ma'am.
All right.
What happened during those months?
I was harassed at work repeatedly.
Every single day.
No matter what I did, I was wrong.
My performance evaluations...
Went from being outstanding and stellar to basically I was the worst employee ever.
Nothing I did was right.
My uniform was absolutely impeccable.
I'm very big on my uniform and my appearance.
I was written up for having a dirty uniform.
You know, I mean, little things like that that eventually led to me being attacked by two offenders with a knife.
Right.
Okay.
What month did the attack happen?
That happened on June the 28th, 2014.
Okay.
And you fought them off, is that correct?
Yes, ma'am.
Can you, you want to describe that to everyone?
Sort of how that happened and what you really thought, you know, was going on?
Sure.
I thought, well, I actually, for my life, I thought it was good.
These two guys, basically, I walked up on them and they came after me with a knife.
I knew that they were trying to hide something.
And one guy told the other guy to get that M-Effer.
That's him.
Get that M-Effer.
So immediately, you know, I looked down.
I saw the knife in this guy's hand.
I was going to go and try to grab the knife, but I don't know what happened.
You know, I've kind of got a little bit of a fuzzy memory on the incident still to this day.
But I was able to grab the guy closest to me and plant him into the wall and handcuff him rather quickly.
And then a screaming match ensued with me and the other offender.
And I was basically, you know, screaming for my life.
I was also on the radio and I was calling for assistance and other people were talking on the radio.
Like I could not get through.
I cannot get through to anybody.
I'm on the radio screaming for help.
There's two guys that are attacking me with a knife and no one came until it was over.
Okay, and so what happened with the other guy?
You got one guy in handcuffs.
The other guy you had sort of a screaming fight with, but then did the other guy go for you with the knife?
Did you take him down or something like that?
I went after the knife.
I was about eight feet away from him, and I went after the knife.
I could see it in his hand.
I was going to try to just pin the knife to him and basically try to wrestle it away from him.
But he fled.
He took off running for me.
I pursued him down a flight of stairs in the bathroom, and we were cornered in the bathroom with a knife, and he took the knife and he threw it in the toilet.
And then what happened?
He put his hand behind his back and he gave up.
Oh, so you arrested both these guys?
Yes, ma'am.
I ran out of handcuffs with this guy, but I grabbed his hands and walked him outside, and I'm not going to comment on the rest of that part, but...
He was taken to segregation after that.
He was taken to segregation after that.
Another officer actually showed up and I told him to place this guy in handcuffs and he didn't.
He did not?
No, ma'am.
He did not.
Did he say why?
No, ma'am.
Did you feel that that other person was not on your side or didn't believe you?
I immediately felt that I was being set up to die at that point.
It hit me and it hit me pretty hard.
So, um, these guys basically got taken to the prison with inside the prison.
They were taken to the disciplinary segregation unit.
And while they were down there, I wrote, you know, wrote up a big violation, wrote everything up.
You know, I knew that this was going to be a court case.
These guys were trying to kill me.
I knew that this was headed to court.
I went down there later on because we had to read them their violations and then read them their rights, you know, let them know that they do have the right to an attorney because this is a serious thing.
They're going to be criminally charged again.
Basically, the guy starts screaming at me, telling me, thank me for not stabbing you.
Stop looking all tough.
F you.
I'm a Christian.
I started praying.
I said the Lord's Prayer.
I added a few things.
I was pretty upset.
Were you in uniform?
Yes, ma'am, I was.
I actually got scrutinized for doing that.
I got in a lot of trouble.
I got written up for not handling the situation properly, using too much force with two guys who were trying to kill me.
They sent that incident off.
They actually tried to, you know, I couldn't believe it.
They tried to reverse the whole situation on me and put it off on me like it was my fault.
Like I agitated these two guys.
Okay, so at the time when you...
They never criminally charged these two guys who tried to kill me.
Oh, alright.
Well, when they tried to kill you, were you on the streets?
Were you in this correctional institute?
Where was this?
I was inside of the correctional institution.
Okay.
And in that case, you were by yourself?
I mean, isn't this a public place, so to speak?
Somewhat.
I was the only officer.
That was actually inside of their little living area at that time.
And the other offenders, whenever they saw this happen, and one guy actually came down, came outside from his cell and looked up.
And I actually, I subpoenaed every one of those inmates that was living in that dorm at the time that saw the attack happen.
Okay.
So, at this point, this is the month of June, and you're still employed by this organization, and have there been any, were there any other incidents before you were, I guess, fired, or, you know, when you were fired?
Yes, ma'am.
Shortly before I was fired, I was questioned over dealing drugs, over bringing drugs in and selling them to offenders.
Okay, and was there any truth to that charge?
Absolutely not.
And my partner was questioned as well.
And I immediately said, I want a lawyer.
I want a lawyer and I want a lawyer right now.
I was told that I could not have a lawyer.
Why is that?
I would lose my job if I brought a lawyer in.
So what did you do at that point?
I hired a lawyer.
Okay.
So they let you go home, and even though they were charging you with this sort of nefarious act?
Yes, ma'am.
Okay.
And so what happened to your partner under those circumstances?
Well, he was very upset about it.
You know, he couldn't believe that we're the ones that were finding this stuff and coming forward with it, and we're being accused of dealing drugs.
I mean, he was completely blown away.
I had heard of things like this happening before.
I mean, just heard stories.
But, you know, I was not ready to experience this, and this guy for sure wasn't.
I mean, it really took him off guard.
Like, really bad.
He was really worried that they were going to criminally charge us for this.
All right.
What happened to your partner, you know, all through this story?
You kind of haven't really mentioned that you had a partner until now.
Was your partner part of the other incidents or not?
Yes, he was.
Oh, he was.
And is he going to be testifying or is he not coming forward?
No, he is.
The reason that he likes to maintain...
A lot of silence about this is because he's in the National Guard for the state, and he's a senior enlisted member with the Missouri National Guard, so he really doesn't want a lot of spotlight on him right now.
He doesn't really want a lot of the attention.
Okay, but he is going to come forward in your lawsuit, is that the idea?
He already has.
Okay.
Was he fired as well?
No, ma'am.
He left on his own.
He was worried that if he got fired from the state position, that he would lose his security clearance in the National Guard, so he went ahead and resigned.
Okay, when did he resign?
It wasn't too long ago, I believe.
To the best of my memory, it was within the last few months.
Alright, but you were actually let go in, as you said, I think September of 2014?
Yes, ma'am.
September 11th, ironically.
Okay.
Is there anything else to the story that you want to share with us before we sort of start going down some other roads?
Go ahead.
Yes, ma'am.
Absolutely.
I've got in front of me my...
The last part of my termination letter, the first part of this is just basically saying all the policies that I had supposedly broken.
But this last part, this is definitely worth reading.
This is definitely worth reading.
Oh, and I should mention that I concealed a digital recorder on me for most of this, and they're very, very upset about that.
You did what?
I concealed a digital reporter on me for most of these things and they're pretty upset about that.
They actually mentioned it as part of my termination.
So, you know, I do have extensive, I have extensive documents and extensive records because I knew that I would need them.
All right.
But if I could, I'd like to read just a small snippet of this termination letter.
Sure, go ahead.
All right.
So this will be the last page.
This is after all the policy violations that I had supposedly violated.
And there's a lot.
I mean, you can see they put three pages together.
And it's basically employee standards and this type of thing saying that I betrayed trust and that I was not honest and I did not cooperate with investigations.
That I stole an address book.
That I was a thief.
But this is really worth reading.
This is the last page, and this was one of my responses to the chief administrative officer whenever she was interviewing me.
I guess an accident interview before I got fired.
Some of the statements that I made trying to save my job, but here's one part of that.
Officer Greggs then advised me that he cannot be held accountable for his actions here because he acted in good faith.
He stated that People here could be arrested for not acting on terrorist matters.
Officer Griggs stated that he did this to protect the public and stated that he took an oath two times in his life to protect his country.
He also informed me that he is a member of the Oath Keepers.
Due to the serious nature of his actions, I have placed Officer Griggs a post where he has no contact with offenders.
I find Officer Griggs' actions not only violated our policies but state laws as well.
His reasons for taking the address book are without a doubt unfounded, and he profiled and targeted the offender who had it, without cause, based on his own distorted analysis.
Further, he lied about what he did with the address book when asked.
Officer Griggs deliberately concealed a digital recorder for the purpose of recording his meeting with me on April 18, 2014.
Officer Griggs also made markedly unprofessional comments to offender Mullins, who was already in an agitated state.
Fender Mullins is the one who attacked, one of the two who attacked me with a knife.
So you have this in my termination letter.
Okay.
Now, well, what I want to do is, though, is back up a little bit because there's a part that you were telling me about in terms of, aside from the making of the bomb and the names on the list, you believed that this individual, it's one individual, is that right?
Or is there more than one?
There's one individual and there's several names in that bullet.
Right.
Okay, so you believe that he was a good possible suspect for being involved in future terrorist activities, right?
Absolutely, and I'll tell you how I can link that.
I had, link it with hard evidence.
I had an address, a name, and a phone number for another individual who was incarcerated by the name of Daniel Patrick Boyd Okay, and he had that man's phone number and address or whatever?
I see.
Okay, so when you were trained at your job, was...
I mean, you were trained to sort of look into gang warfare.
Is that correct?
Yes, ma'am.
Okay, but looking into terrorism, was that also something you were...
I mean, I would assume most police officers at this point are trained in this sort of thing, but were you trained in looking for these kinds of signs?
Yes, ma'am.
I actually have a certification from the Office of the Director of National Intelligence on intelligence reporting and And anti-terrorism.
So you were trained in doing your job?
Correct.
Okay.
And you were finding, in essence, you found evidence of a person who fit the profile, so to speak, of somebody who could be a terrorist suspect.
And when you brought it to your superiors, they simply said, forget about it.
Yes, ma'am.
Fascinating.
Let me tell you, this is sort of an unusual thing for Camelot to look into, but it does fall into the notion of what we understand to be false flags and setting up individuals in various cities Who can ultimately be targeted as what we call Manchurian candidates.
And this individual sounds like he might be somebody who was either of his own volition getting involved or being set up.
So what I'm wondering is, have you been alerted to that sort of process?
And did you see any sort of Disorientation in this individual or anything that would indicate that he might be part of a larger organization of people?
I'll tell you what.
This man was crying whenever I told him that he was not getting this address book back.
He started crying and he was scared and he got on the phone immediately.
And I even tried to get the phone...
To get his phone records and to look, I wanted to see everybody who this guy was calling.
And I was told, you know, of course, I cannot do, you know, you cannot do that.
But I should also let you know, this guy has got a holistic, he's got a doctor in that address book.
When I was investigating all the names and I was running all the names and checking out everybody who was in that book, I came across a dead doctor who died under very mysterious circumstances.
And I'll tell you what, this guy, he was anything but normal.
I mean, he was anything but normal.
What do you mean by that?
He was on a few different psychotropic medications.
Due to HIPAA, I don't even know if I'm supposed to disclose that or whatever, but at this point, it's too late.
I did look into this guy's background.
He was under psychotropic medication.
He did act very strange.
I had only had one interaction with this guy before, and it was whenever I found all that stuff on him.
Okay, well that again fits the profile of what we consider to be a possible mentoring candidate.
So it's very interesting that the police would be, you know, colluding with this sort of a setup.
Did you ever get involved with the FBI or try to go to the FBI with any of this?
The FBI contacted me.
The FBI actually called me and I worked with a special agent on this.
And then whenever I went to get a hold of the special agent, whenever this was going to court, can't get a hold of him.
Really?
So the special agent was no longer available for you?
Correct.
Did you try to, you know, I know that you have a partner and he's going to testify, I assume.
And you told me that this FBI guy disappeared.
Or has become unavailable.
But then you told me this other guy who, I forget what his actual title was.
You said he was an investigator for the attorney's office.
Yes, the OICB Office of the Inspector General.
Inspector General's office.
Disappeared.
I have no idea where this guy's at.
And he's vital to my lawsuit.
Right.
Okay.
How hard have you tried to get a hold of him?
In other words, family, friends, this sort of thing?
I got a high-paid attorney who was paid to do that, and he can't do it.
I see.
Fascinating.
All right.
Do you trust your attorney?
I do.
He's an Oathkeeper as well.
Okay.
I actually met him down in Ferguson.
I was involved in the Ferguson riots, actually, from beginning to end, and I met the The founder of the Oath Keepers, Stuart Rhodes, he's in Yale.
He's actually the one who got my attorney for me.
He's a Yale lawyer.
He graduated from Yale Law School.
He looked at a few of the reports that I wrote and a few of the letters I wrote.
Actually, I'm kind of proud of this.
He told me, he said, you wrote this very well.
I was really proud of that, coming from a Yale lawyer.
He looked over all this stuff and he said, let me get you a lawyer.
Let me help you.
Let me get you a lawyer.
That was when Ferguson was burning to the ground.
It's been a pretty tense two years.
Wow.
Can you tell us anything about the Ferguson situation?
What do you want to know?
Sure.
I was there for all of it.
We can definitely go down that road.
Before we do, I just want to make sure to do justice to your story here and make sure that I've asked you and allowed you to Tell as much as you can about this incident or series of incidents and sort of outlining the negligence of what appears to be this correctional facility as well as these various departments,
including your local, if I understand, legislature or congressperson?
Is that right?
Yes ma'am, correct.
Congressman Paul Fitzwater, I personally hold him responsible.
Being the committee chairman, the corrections and the public safety.
Oversight chairman, which is his job whenever a whistleblower or anyone of concern comes to their democratically elected representative and brings this type of thing to them and they collude with the enemy.
You know, that's a subversion of democratic process.
Absolutely.
Okay, so Like I said, is there anything else that we haven't covered that covered, you know, in these kind of two, year and a half to two years that you were going through this?
You know, Ms.
Carey, I'll tell you, there's so many things that happened involving this situation, you know.
I've basically touched on the major key points of it.
You know, there's just so much that happened with this that it's kind of hard to remember everything, but...
I appreciate it.
Every day.
I was being harassed every day.
I mean, I was being stalked, harassed every single day.
I had a psychological evaluation.
Actually, right after this attack, I had to go take a psychological evaluation.
They referred me to that.
And I passed, even under all this stress.
And the psychologist couldn't figure out why I was there.
She could not figure out why I was there.
She said, I actually don't know why you're here.
They just want me to check you out and see if you're okay, I guess.
So I gave her all these documents, too.
I went over all this stuff with her, and I said, I want to get back to work, and I want to investigate this, and I want to finish this before I get fired.
So she helped me do that, and I went back to work.
I was placed on a desk, and the only thing that did was give me access to their records all day.
All right, and how did you make use of that in any way?
Oh, absolutely.
For sure.
I got into their drives and printed off a whole lot of stuff and sympathetic staff commanders would actually bring me one of my jobs after they put me on a desk, as the meaning as it is, was to sit and shred paper all day.
That's all I was allowed to do was sit and shred papers.
So a few staff commanders who were sympathetic to me, you know, they would bring me documents to shred That are part of my lawsuit right now.
Oh, excellent.
Okay, so when they finally fired you, what was the excuse?
I mean, you know, all of a sudden, just that day.
I mean, why, you know, it sounds like it would have been six months later or more.
Sure.
Actually, you know, this is how cowardly these people are.
I was supposed to be given the right to appeal to My termination to the director, to the state director, and whenever I drove three hours to meet with this man, I was told that he was unavailable and I can only fax my concerns to his office.
So I wasn't even allowed to properly appeal any of this.
Wow.
Okay.
So, thank you very much for coming forward and for sharing your story.
What I'd like to do at this point is, first of all, we do have a chat room associated with the show, so I want to encourage anyone with questions to put them in all caps, and we'll try to get to those questions and ask you directly.
But aside from that, since you were in Ferguson and since there's...
Actually, I think there's been another incident today.
I forget where it was.
Of some kind of killing of a young man or something, I think.
I saw it in the news really briefly today.
What was your understanding about the Ferguson situation?
Do you feel that it was provoked?
Or do you think it was legitimate?
Did you have any thoughts about that?
Well, I'll tell you.
The whole Ferguson thing, I believe that that whole thing was Okay,
so...
When you were in this situation, you had some sympathetic individuals come in your direction, but did anybody try to go to bat for you, so to speak, or did they all sort of keep their distance, you know, in that organization that you worked in, the Correctional Institute, I guess?
Sure.
There was a few people that did.
One of my sergeants actually did, but, excuse me, Fear for his job, you know, these people were...
My friends were actually being harassed at work.
Excuse me, I'm sorry.
So they eventually stopped associating with me.
Only a few still, you know, associated with me.
No one really did go to bat for me.
Okay.
Very interesting.
So, at a certain point, you were let go.
Did you...
What did you do at that point?
You know what I mean?
Did you try to go up higher channels other than get a lawyer?
Were there any other...
Did your lawyer advise you as to going to take your case to anywhere else?
No, ma'am.
My lawyer, he's basically handling the litigation side of this.
Basically, I'm coming forward...
To expose the democratic process side of this.
I know that I'm going to win this lawsuit, so I'm pretty happy about that.
I know how that's going to end, but he hasn't really given me a lot of advice on pursuing this congressman or pursuing the subversion of the democratic process.
I mean, I'm actually a little more interested, to tell you the truth, in this terrorism aspect.
And I'm wondering if there is any places you could go with regard to that side of things.
Because it is obviously of concern that...
Police officers would be pursuing a person who was doing the investigating of a possible suspect as opposed to looking into the suspect themselves.
So, you know, is there anything that you've found out about or looked into or other organizations that can help you in this respect?
Basically, all the law enforcement agencies that I contacted on this have I've been blackballed from any type of investigation whatsoever.
I've contacted numerous.
What do you mean by blackballed?
I mean, what have they told you?
Basically, that this is going to go nowhere, that there's no additional information on it.
Okay.
So, in other words, did they try to take it up channels or anything?
Sure, sure.
Now, the St.
Louis County Police Intelligence Unit...
I don't exactly know what they did with the rest of this, but I do know that they used this address book for a few of their investigations with their counterterrorism guys.
I know for a fact that they...
Okay, and are you going to be able to get one of them to vouch for the fact that they might have found it helpful?
Absolutely.
That's what's going on in my lawsuit right now.
All right.
And I did forget to say...
That I was actually charged.
I was actually criminally charged for theft of that address folder.
For taking it and giving it to a police intelligence unit, I was charged criminally for theft.
Okay.
Well, I mean...
I'm not sure about people's rights in this regard, but the individual was arrested for having weapons.
Is that correct?
Yes, ma'am.
And he had this book on him, so one would think it would become part of the evidence, backing up, you know, being put into police evidence or whatever, wouldn't it?
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
Actually, whenever we did a discovery, whenever we were looking to see all the records, my attorney noticed that the other party, my old department, they didn't submit any of the chain of custody records and we had every good of them.
Okay, and is that a violation on their part?
Oh, absolutely.
Very interesting.
So, is the notion here that this is an old boys network that is operating basically under its own idea of what's legal and what's not?
I mean, I think it's got to be more sinister than that.
Because a good old boys organization, you know, I'm from Kentucky, and I learned from a lot of good cops in Kentucky.
I was trained very well down there on doing the right thing.
And I'll tell you what, there's no law enforcement officer or law enforcement professional in the entire world who would think that it was a good idea to disregard something like this and to basically stop all investigations on it.
So there is something nefarious that is going on that I still don't know about.
Would you consider this to be something that is isolated to Missouri or have you ever tried to go out of state with it at all?
Sure.
One of the doctors in that address book, I'll release her name.
I'll let you know her name.
Her name is Dr.
Leslie Cargill.
She was killed in Texas.
They said that it was a suicide, but they found 22 drugs injected into this woman and a handgun and $1,200 cash in the hotel room with her husband, who was dead, too.
Wow.
That was one of the first contacts that I came across in this address book.
So how was it that this young man, was he young or old?
How old was he?
He was in his early 30s.
Okay, how was it that he would have these very interesting people in his address book, I wonder?
I have no clue, but he had her last known contact information out of North Carolina where her practice was.
She died in Texas.
She went from North Carolina to Texas, and they found her dead in Texas.
So her name was Leslie Cargile?
Correct.
Okay.
And she died under suspicious circumstances.
And the police had no interest in the address book.
So you have the young man.
He gets arrested for weapons.
He has bomb-making instructions on him.
As well as an address book with these interesting individuals.
Was he well-educated, this guy?
He was.
He was.
He had a Koran in his cell, and I talked to him about that.
He was a devout Muslim.
Uh-huh.
Okay.
Very, very strange circumstances.
All right, well, this is...
He was Caucasian.
He was Caucasian, but he was a Muslim.
Right.
Right.
Okay.
And do you know, was he from Missouri or was he from somewhere else?
He's from here, but he has family roots in Bosnia.
Bosnia.
Hmm.
All right.
Did you ever contact the CIA? No, ma'am.
And you got nowhere with the FBI, correct?
Correct.
I can't even talk to the agent who I worked with.
Um...
And Homeland Security also was not interested.
Actually, Homeland Security, my buddy, the investigator, who no one knows where he's at now, he was friends with some guys in Homeland Security, and they were interested in this, and they wanted to talk to me.
And I asked him about that, and he told me that they were not allowed to talk to me.
Not allowed?
Correct.
They could not come to that institution and speak to me about this.
I've got the voicemails from him and everything about that.
Why?
I mean, did he explain further?
I mean, what was the reasoning there?
To the best of my knowledge, I'm guessing that they would not allow them on site to do the investigation to interview me, which these people have got to have some serious power because this is Homeland Security.
Right.
Really?
Okay.
And your congressman was completely not helpful either.
Yes, ma'am.
He was colluding with the enemy.
All right.
So...
I'm not sure where we can go with this other than if you have anything more to say.
I'm looking to see if there's any questions.
I don't see any obvious questions directed at you here in the chat.
This will go on YouTube.
People will be able to hear your story.
Do you want to make yourself available so that if other cops, other people that work in correctional institutes that are finding some nefarious things going on, Can contact you?
Do you have an email address or anything of that nature you'd like to share?
I do, I do.
And I want to let those other people know, too, that you guys aren't alone.
You guys are not alone.
There are people out here that are doing the same thing as you guys.
And I know that it is a very lonely road that you're about to go down.
And you need to be aware that, you know, this may not turn out how you want it to.
But the truth is more important than anything you will do.
And I'll tell you what, Ms.
Carey, to be honest, I don't know if I would do this again.
I cannot hold a steady job, a good job, because my termination records, yet they reflect that.
Okay.
I can't hold a good job, but if anyone would like to contact me, it's KY L-A-W-M-A-N-K-S-P and that's on Twitter.
Okay.
You want to say that again slower?
Sure.
It's K-Y-L-A-W-M-A-N-K-S-P and that's on Twitter.
Okay.
So that I'm putting that in the chat so people can see, uh, and we'll, um, I guess there's not really any other way to put that on here, uh, at the moment.
Uh, so someone, uh, someone here is asking, uh, why you think the higher ups are covering up this, uh, this incident and, um, um, What is the motivation, do you think?
I mean, I know what I think it is, but what do you think it is?
I think it's sleeper activity.
I really do.
I think it's sleeper activity and that these guys...
You know, as you know, there was IED attacks in New England and New York just over the weekend.
And we've never seen IED attacks in the United States on this scale.
So I believe that this is part of a sleeper unit and that this guy is waiting to be activated.
Okay.
Fair enough.
I mean, let me just say that if there's anyone...
You know, who watches this or hears about this and ends up watching it, that this is someone who you can help.
And if you are concerned about your local law enforcement, the correctional institutes that are around the country, that they may be colluding with various sectors, that it looks like in your case...
The FBI, the congressman, the attorney general's office, wow, the Correctional Institute.
I'm trying to figure out who's not working together.
All these organizations appear to be colluding to keep you...
Sure, this is the prison industrial complex.
I mean, this is a vast system that we're going up against.
You know, this is basically the bread and butter for a lot of politicians, this prison industrial complex.
That's right.
This is what keeps the gears moving.
And, you know, I was trained very early on, whenever I took the gang task force position, to look for radicalization, to look for jihadi and Islamic radicalization within the correctional institutions.
Because a simple Google search, if you just Google If you were just to get on your computer and Google radicalization in prison, you will see numerous articles.
National Institute of Justice, Department of Homeland Security, every one of the state police agencies around the country, they're very concerned about radicalization within the prison.
And then whenever radicalization within the prison is found, I mean, it's just like, you know, oh man, discredit this guy, shut him up.
You know, we can't have this given out.
This is real.
Alright.
Someone wants to know if you were trained in forensic linguistics.
I was not trained in forensic linguistics, but I was trained in behavior analysis and forensics involving crime scenes.
Okay.
Yeah, I mean...
The person who disappeared, who was an investigator, did he communicate to you, lead you to believe in any way that he was going to have to disappear?
No, ma'am.
So you had no idea.
And was he somebody...
I mean, it seemed like you were working with him.
He had really bought into your story and wanted to help you investigate it, right?
Sure.
He saw all these things firsthand.
He saw everything that I had firsthand.
And he was really...
He was really...
Trying to get to the bottom of this.
And he was in a position to where he could turn over a lot more intelligence and information than I could.
So he was very interested in getting to the bottom of this.
And we were in contact almost every working day that I had.
All right.
And up until when he disappeared, do you mean?
Yes, ma'am.
Okay, so he was outraged by what had happened to you, correct?
Yes, ma'am.
And did he indicate that he'd ever come across people being treated the way you were when, you know, under the circumstances where, you know, you came forward with evidence and so on, being brushed aside and ignored?
I mean, vaguely.
Just, I guess, light conversation about it, but nothing like...
Nothing like what happened at all.
I mean, I know that he had definitely never seen anything like this before.
Well, when he disappeared, did you try to contact his higher-ups?
No, ma'am.
No, I didn't try to contact them, but I tried to contact his family.
I tried to call him.
I tried to get in contact with anybody who knew him.
Okay, but what about the Attorney General himself, if he worked in his office?
Well, the Attorney General actually is, that's who is representing the state of Missouri in their lawsuit.
So he's on the opposite side of the aisle, so to speak, from you?
Correct, yes ma'am.
The Attorney General's office, that's who represents state employees whenever they're being sued.
Okay.
And state organizations?
Because are you suing individuals or organizations?
I'm suing the state of Missouri.
Okay.
But you're saying that this guy who disappeared worked for the Attorney General's office.
Isn't that what you said?
Correct.
Yes, ma'am.
And there is also an auditor who audited the Missouri Department of Corrections He shot himself under mysterious circumstances in his backyard here in St.
Louis.
He was the chief auditor for the whole state.
Incredible.
And how long ago was that?
A year ago.
Wow.
So there's something very twisted in the state of Missouri, it sounds like.
That's for sure.
Sure.
And we just found out that 200...
That there is a lot going on with their execution process in the state of Missouri right now.
And we found out that there has been the discovery that their executioners are being paid $250,000 in cash stuffed envelopes to perform executions in the state of Missouri.
Wow.
So that's just to give you an idea.
That just came out recently in the news.
So that's just to give you an idea, you know, How corrupt these people really are.
Absolutely.
Okay, well, we're putting this out there.
Certainly, people can try to get a hold of you, and they can try to get a hold of me, and I'll send on their email addresses if you'd like, in case they don't get a hold of you directly on Twitter.
I think maybe not everyone uses Twitter, but I'll give you my email too.
I'll go ahead and I'll let you have my email.
Go ahead.
It's going to be K-Y-L-A-W-M-A-N-K-S-P at gmail.com.
M-A-N-K-S-P at gmail.com.
That's me.
K-Y-Lawman-A-S-P at gmail.com.
Lawman then K-S-P at gmail.com, correct?
kywallmanksp at gmail.com.
You got it.
Okay.
Hopefully I got that right.
So I put that in the chat as well.
All right.
Well, thank you so much for coming forward.
I think, you know, you're a very brave man, and we need more people like you out there.
These organizations are working together actually against, you know, the American people at this time, and And there's a lot of nefarious things going on in the prison system, as we know, as well as in having to do with the police departments, the Justice Department, etc., etc.
Thank you.
You know, it's not an easy road.
And I guess individuals like you are very few and far between.
So if there are other people out there, I suggest you guys all get together and maybe the Oath Keepers can also give them advice if there are other people and certainly talk with you too.
I also think that your investigation has a relationship to Scott Bennett's story, as I mentioned.
I don't know if Scott was able to get a hold of you or not, but I did give him your contact information.
I'm hoping he will try to get a hold of you.
Because Scott Bennett is someone who has worked on a high level for Booz Allen Hamilton, I believe is the name of the organization that's basically, you know, sort of...
That's who Snowden worked for them, too.
Exactly.
And he has followed the money in terms of funding terrorism.
So, in your case, you're...
I listened to that.
That was a very good interview that you two did.
I listened to that.
That was very good.
Thank you.
But you see, he's really making some waves out there and he's not going to let go of that.
The fact is that he has found...
Evidence of Swiss bankers and also evidence within the United States that they are turning a blind eye and that they are funding terrorism.
So what you're talking about is an even lower, you know, closer to the ground, so to speak, aspect where law enforcement and various organizations, including legislatures, governments, Are involved in covering up what appears to be a plot to create terrorism and to allow it to happen in America as well as elsewhere.
This in itself is a form of terrorism.
So we find that the very organizations that are supposed to be fighting it are the ones creating it, and that's what's really going on.
So thank you for coming forward, and let's stay in touch.
I want to hear more about your story.
I'll be glad to have you back on the show if there's a good reason, you know, if any new developments happen.
If the person who's disappeared decides to come forward or Happens to see this interview.
You know, he has an open invitation.
I can go live on a dime like any moment of any day.
So, you know, feel free to, if there's some urgent need, to get something out there publicly to let me know.
Yes, ma'am.
Thank you very much, Ms.
Perry, for having me on.
I truly appreciate it.
Absolutely.
It's a pleasure.
And thank you, everyone, for listening tonight.
This is a really important, crucial thing.
We do see them manufacturing terrorism in our midst.
Whether there's any real terrorists, most of these guys appear to be patsies and appear to be hired and trained and paid by the United States government and Saudi Arabia and various other colluding organizations and countries.
So thank you very much.
Thank you.
All right.
Good night.
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