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Sept. 16, 2016 - Project Camelot
01:49:12
INTERVIEW WITH PETER JANNEY: AUTHOR MARY'S MOSAIC RE JFK, CIA AND DEATH OF MARY MEYER
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Hi everyone this is Carrie Cassidy from Project Hamlet and I am here today with Peter Jenny and he has a fascinating book called Mary's Mosaic and I'm very happy to welcome him onto the show.
As usual, I'll just put the banner on here to identify the show for everyone who's watching and And then we'll get started.
He has a brief bio here, and we're going to augment that by talking to him and getting more information.
But Peter Janney grew up in Washington, D.C. during the Cold War era of the 1950s and 60s.
His father, Wistar Janney, was a senior career CIA official.
The Janney family was intimately involved with many of Washington's social and political elite That included the family of Marion Cord Meyer, as well as the high-ranking CIA officials such as Richard Helms, Jim Angleton, Tracy Barnes, Desmond Fitzgerald, and William Colby.
A graduate of Princeton, where he studied American history under Professor Martin Dubberman, Janney earned a doctoral Degree in psychology at Boston University in 1981.
He's been a practicing psychologist and consultant for over 30 years.
In 2002, he completed an MBA degree at Duke University's Fuqua School of Business, and Mary's Mosaic is his first book.
That's actually a very good bio.
I look at all kinds of bios and I have to say that's one of the better ones.
So welcome and it's great to have you on the show.
Great to be with you, Carrie.
I'm delighted to be here and I hope together you and I can give your listeners and viewers something to really think about.
Okay, well, that would be lovely and I'm sure you will because I'm more than halfway through your book and it's really excellent.
So just let me say that to begin with.
And it's great to have you on the show.
So can you give us a little bit more background about yourself personally before we get going and augment the bio that I read and probably try to answer the question as to why you wrote the book to begin with?
Well, I grew up, as you just noted, in Washington, D.C. My dad was a career CIA officer.
We were socially very close with Mary Meyer's family.
My mother actually went to college with Mary Meyer at Vassar College in the early 1940s.
They were in the same class together.
My father and Mary's husband, Kordmeyer, both worked at the CIA together.
So our family spent a lot of time together, and my best friend as a young boy up until the age of nine years old was Michael Meyer, Marion Court's middle child.
Unfortunately, Michael met an untimely death.
He was hit by a car when we were both nine years old.
And that was really a defining event for me in my life.
I proceeded to go through a very severe and acute grief reaction.
And I was very upset about losing Michael.
The problem was that, you know, given my parents' penchant for alcohol, they weren't terribly good parents.
In certain domains, in the domain of sustaining emotional intimacy and connection.
The person who really helped me the most was Michael's mother, Mary Meyer.
I spent a lot of time with the family after Michael's death.
She was really good to me in so many ways.
About, let's see, about seven years later, I came home from boarding school in the fall of 1964, not having known until it was announced at the dinner before Thanksgiving that Mary Meyer had been murdered.
And I was just bludgeoned by hearing this from my mother.
And that proceeded to sort of Resuscitate my grief and my upsetness around Mary and Michael.
And so Mary's death really started to haunt me.
I was too young to really appreciate what had really gone on at that time.
It wasn't until 12 years later in 1976 where the public at large learned That Mary and President Kennedy were having a very significant romantic relationship during the last three years of his life and her life.
And so as certain details began to come out, I really got drawn into what had actually happened.
And that's really when my personal saga For this book began.
I just started talking to people.
I started collecting information intermittently and over the years Certain things became known to me that I hadn't known before and sort of one thing led to another so briefly I That's how I got engaged with the subject matter.
I knew something was very, very wrong, that this was not just a random act of violence in terms of her murder.
I knew something unconsciously was going on, and I started digging to see if I could not find out what it was.
Well, thank you.
That's very interesting.
And I mean, it is when one sits in your place and imagines finding out that this very influential older person when you were a young person...
Who had been a friend and something of what appears to be a mentor died suddenly and was murdered, in fact.
The trauma must have been quite severe and I can appreciate that it sort of formed your consciousness from then on.
It's amazing that you had the wherewithal to even write the book all these years later.
In reading the book, I see that there had been other people that have tried to go down this road, and there's also some danger associated with it, and I wonder if you can talk about that and how it is, because I found it very interesting,
the way you kind of were bequeathed The work of other people during the years who had done some investigation and then you, in essence, kind of seemed to have taken over and really gathered everything that other people overlooked, even with the books that have been published.
So could you talk about that a bit?
Sure.
Well, the thing is that being trained as a clinical psychologist I spent a lot of time in psychotherapy as a patient.
That was part of our training.
And I spent a lot of time in psychotherapy, period, just because I found it a very interesting and fascinating exercise.
But it also allowed me, Kerry, to really deal with whatever was unresolved in my own consciousness.
I learned fairly quickly on not to run away from things that were uncomfortable, but to go deeply into them and get to the bottom of whatever it was.
That was a choice.
Not everyone enjoys doing that kind of thing, but I kind of did.
As I got more and more into this, We can get into some more details.
But the overriding element here is I had to really conquer a lot of fear and sometimes a lot of terror.
I was never overtly threatened for getting involved in this book, but I did at one point sit down with a very well-known...
A retired CIA officer.
His name is Victor Marchetti.
He's written a couple of books.
He became very disenchanted with the CIA and left and wrote about it.
He also had worked for my father.
So I knew Victor a little bit.
And when I was really starting to get into this very deeply and really getting ready to turn The last commitment key to really take this on 100%.
I asked Victor, I said, Victor, do you think the CIA is going to threaten me?
Do you think they're going to consider eliminating me?
And he just looked at me very funny.
He said, no, they're not going to threaten you.
They'll just do it.
And it was at that moment.
I think I realized, oh my God, this is real and there is a certain amount of danger here.
That was a moment in my life where I was engaged to be married and I had to break the engagement because it was too dangerous for me to be with anyone if I was going to take this on.
I had to let go of having a family of my own, having You know, children of my own because it would be too dangerous and I would never have been able to live with myself had something happen to them, for instance.
So there were, you know, a number of commitment checks here that I had to go through to be able, you know, to finally get to the place where I could write this book and do the necessary research and And bring it into manifestation.
It meant that I had to be alone a lot of the time.
It was not always pleasant, sometimes very challenging.
But in retrospect, I would not now trade what I have accomplished for anything.
It was definitely the right thing for me to do and part of my own personal destiny.
Wow, that's really extraordinary that you would, you know, change your life in essence to write the book and being so aware of the danger as we know and that gets into why Mary was killed in the first place and that all opens the whole Kennedy assassination and The fact that you came from such a close proximity to this story is really
interesting.
In other words, you are someone who Washington, D.C., the city, the town, can't not take seriously at this time.
And with your background, I'm sure that your academic background speaks to this.
As well as the fact that you've dedicated so many years to this investigation.
And I do hope that people will read your book, people that are watching this and will watch it when it goes onto YouTube, and understand that it contains It links up some things, it connects some dots with regard to not only the Kennedy assassination,
but the assassination of Martin Luther King, Bobby Kennedy, and in fact what appears to have been a coup in our government that took place around the death of John F. Kennedy.
So, Camelot has dealt with this subject for a while, perhaps unbeknownst to you.
And we had some direct dealings with regard to what might be called the estate of James Angleton.
Which may interest you.
And I'm not at liberty, because we received death threats around this, to go into more detail on that score.
But I can tell you that your story, within the story, you talk about the diary, and the fact that Angleton may have come and gotten the diary, or that Ben Bradley and his wife Tony may have helped him, or Something that went on there.
And I'd like to hear your take on all of that.
So let me first say thank you very much for your dedication and for going the hard road on this because not many people are willing to do that.
And most people, even in the books they wrote, seem to have been unwilling or unable to go take the seriousness of this, you know, on board.
Yes, thank you, first of all.
Yes, I knew the Angleton family fairly well.
I knew Jim Angleton's daughter, Truffey, socially.
I didn't know Jim and his wife, Cicely, all that well because I was a kid and they were parents.
And of course, they were very close with Mary Meyer.
People don't realize what a Jekyll and Hyde Jim Angleton really was.
I mean, this is a man who might be called Machiavelli in disguise.
He was a very treacherous human being in some ways, and a very disturbed human being in some ways, and very temperamentally suited For the job he did within the CIA. But,
you know, to really understand this era, you have to remember that most of these early people in the CIA, they come out of World War II. And most of them, or a great deal of them, come from pretty well-to-do families.
They're not going to starve.
Basically, they're in a position where they can go out and have a career and they don't always have to worry about money.
And I think for a lot of these guys, you know, they wanted to do something kind of new and coming out of the war, they wanted to make sure that no future world wars would take place because they would be nuclear wars and conceivably end life as we know it.
So, When the CIA was formally formed in 1947, a lot of these guys really thought this might be a very cool place to work.
And I do not think that they were aware that they were going to be seduced by this guy, Alan Dulles, who really was For lack of a better word, just downright evil.
There's a new book about Alan Dulles that just came out in the last year.
It's called The Devil's Chessboard by David Talbot.
It is one of the most incredible books I have really ever read on the Cold War era.
I mean, Mr.
Talbot, the author, goes where no one else has dared to go in this book.
And really...
It helps the reader understand who this guy Alan Dulles was and what he was doing and how he was able to seduce people like my father and Cord Meyer and Jim Angleton and a bunch of others.
Right.
Well, you know, I read that book and I found it fascinating.
I do think it's interesting because the whole Dulles question and the fact that he was allowed to continue under John F. Kennedy And then eventually fired or let go or whatever you want to say or replaced.
But in essence, he never left because he took awe.
The entire CIA continued to report to him as the story goes.
That's absolutely correct.
Yes.
And so that changes.
You see, this is where the coup in the government seems to have really taken place and what some people may refer to, even...
In these days as what we call the secret government may have had its beginnings or at least even been cemented by the actions of Dulles and whoever he was working with behind the scenes, bringing on board Johnson and so on.
So it's a huge can of worms, as they say, and this is the story that you're dealing with.
So do you want to talk about the actual, for the sake of this interview and for the sake of the listener, maybe describe briefly how Mary Meyer was killed and the circumstances surrounding it, and then...
Perhaps what your conclusions are as to if you've reached any at this time.
And since I'm not done with your book, I don't know the answer to that question.
So if you could talk about the actual murder of Mary Meyer.
Okay.
Well, I think it's important for your listeners to know that, of course, Mary was intimately involved with President Kennedy and she became...
Probably his closest ally.
In the fall of 1962, we had something called the Cuban Missile Crisis.
And at that moment, we came as close to annihilating the planet as we've ever come.
Some people regard it as literally the most dangerous moment in all of human history.
And after the Cuban Missile Crisis...
President Kennedy was very upset.
He was depressed.
And this was particularly a moment for Mary to step in and basically say, look, Jack, you've got to turn away from this Cold War mentality.
You have got to turn toward world peace.
That is the only thing that's going to save us.
And the irony here is that Premier Khrushchev of Russia was also feeling the same way.
And secretly, these two world leaders started to come together, unbeknownst to a lot of people in the CIA or the Pentagon.
They started to have a secret relationship, and they really forged a new bond of trust between one another, and they were working together to bring on a new era of planetary history.
When President Kennedy gave this incredible American University commencement dress in June of 1963, he talks about world peace as the most important issue of our day.
And he announces during that speech that he is going to pursue a limited arms nuclear treaty with Russia.
And that actually took place in less than three months.
And the reason why it happened so quickly, it was done behind the backs of the CIA and the Pentagon.
I mean, they were outraged when this thing got ratified in September by the United States Senate.
So the national security apparatus realized that they could no longer Get a grip on Kennedy.
He was going his own way and he wasn't listening to them.
And of course, Mary was right by his side assisting him in any way she could to, you know, take this new trajectory very, very seriously, which he did.
So when he was assassinated later on that year in November of 63, Mary was, of course, devastated, but she decided to devote the entire year after the assassination to really finding out what had happened,
and she had a lot of access to people in Washington, in the White House, and she put two and two together and realized that this had been a conspiracy, and that it had been a conspiracy conducted through the CIA, of which her own husband, Ex-husband Cord Meyer and Jim Angleton were involved.
And so when the Warren Commission came out in September of 1964, she bought one of the paperback copies the first day it came out, and she looked through it, read through some of the things, and realized that there was now an even bigger conspiracy going on, the conspiracy of cover-up.
And that is when she decided that she would go public.
With who she was in terms of being in President Kennedy's life and what really had happened in Dallas.
And this was not, you know, a fly-by-night floozy talking.
Mary Meyer was a very well-respected person in Washington.
She was an established artist.
She was an independent woman.
People liked her.
People listened to her.
Philip Graham of the Washington Post was a friend of hers.
Ironically, Mr.
Graham met an untimely death, allegedly a suicide in August of 63, before the assassination.
And so she was ready to go public after the Warren report came out in September of 64.
And that's when they decided that they would have to take her out.
Yeah, okay, very, very interesting, yes.
Was this information public in terms of who knew, you know, that she was going to go public?
Very few people knew that.
One CIA wife, girlfriend knew, because don't forget, Mary's phone was already being tapped by Jim Angleton.
I mean, he knew who she...
She was talking to what she was thinking.
He knew that she was keeping a diary.
He had a lot of surveillance going on with regard to her.
And so it wasn't, you know, great public knowledge that she was going to come out and talk because there were only really a few close people who even knew she was having an affair with the president.
But Her disposition toward this was that she felt this was the best thing that she could do for the public at large.
I mean, there were already rumblings going on in Washington.
You know, Mark Lane, if you remember that name, was really coming out and challenging everything about the Warren Commission report.
And of course, in the last 50 years, The whole commission has just been discredited.
I mean, we know now it really wasn't worth the paper it was printed on.
So this was in the early stages of the cover-up that was taking place.
Now, Kerry, what you haven't probably read yet and what you will read if you finish the book is that you will find out That my own father was part of the conspiracy to take Mary Meyer out.
And he was also part of the CIA's effort to cover up what had taken place in Dallas, since they were very much involved with it.
He wasn't involved with the operation at that time, but he was involved with the cover-up, particularly when Jim Garrison Came on the scene and was going to take this guy Clay Shaw to trial.
So there were a lot of holes that needed to be plugged, and Mary Meyer was one of them.
She was a CIA runaway wife, and she was courageous enough to stand up and speak her mind.
Absolutely.
Well, and she was a painter as well.
So, and of some note, I understand she had shows in, I think, the Washington area and perhaps other parts of the world.
Yes, and I appreciate you setting the scene in this way because, you know, it's very important that people understand, in a sense, who this woman was and why she was perceived as such a threat.
And this contributes to, of course, why they decided to take her out as a result.
So, again, just if you don't mind, can you describe the events of the day?
And very briefly, you know, there was a young man who was mistaken for the killer and had a very good representative, a lawyer, a female lawyer who got him cleared of the charges, and rightly so.
But all she did was go on a walk in the nearby area, actually in her neighborhood.
Isn't that right?
Well, that's almost right.
Mary, as a painter, had a routine.
She would go to her studio for three or four hours early in the morning, and then after that period of time, she would take a walk On the Chesapeake and Ohio Canal towpath.
It just meant that she walked down into Georgetown Village, crossed the canal, and walked out the towpath, usually to a place called Fletcher's Boathouse, which is about a mile and a half out, and then turn around and walk back.
That was her daily routine.
So the way the operation was planned was they had her under surveillance for At least two to three weeks before the actual murder took place.
And they knew what her daily routine was.
So they waited for the particular day that they were going to do this.
Her ex-husband Kordmeyer was in New York that day, so he was out of the picture.
And it was on a Monday, October 12, 1964.
And She took her walk, and while she was at a certain point, which I identify in the book as the kill zone, someone came up behind her, grabbed her, shot her once in the head, didn't think that she would survive that, but she did, and she still was fighting.
He finally wrestled her to the ground and shot her again underneath her left shoulder blade and Of course, the bullet went right through her aorta and killed her instantly.
Right.
And the person who did the job appeared to have been a professional.
Isn't that right?
Wasn't that the conclusion?
Yes.
This was the work of a professional assassin.
When you sit down and you look at the transcript and you hear what the coroner says, In terms of the nature of the trajectory of the bullets, this is just no random act of violence.
I mean, clearly the motive here was to kill her, and it took a professional to do that.
Meanwhile, there's this guy, this itinerant day laborer, Ray Crump, down in the general vicinity.
He's having a secret tryst with his girlfriend, On the shore of the Potomac River, and he's trying to make his way back to where he came in to the towpath area, and he gets spotted by police because he looks a little suspicious, and that's when they decided to make him the Patsy.
Right.
Well, in my world, there is some question as to whether or not he was actually sort of...
He was primed to be very useful in that way and spotted ahead of time because he did have a relationship with that woman.
He also seemed to have left home that day not going to work as usual and so on, right?
He left home that day not going to work as usual because he wanted to meet up with his girlfriend.
And so that meant that they got out to the Topat area probably at least two and a half to three hours before the actual murder took place.
And you have to understand that a CIA operation of this magnitude, they do not leave much to chance.
They waited until they saw a potential patsy who they could use.
And they spotted Ray Crump, you know, Probably at least a couple of hours before the actual event.
And that's how he became and snarled.
There was never any evidence of Ray Crump being in any way connected with, you know, the CIA or anyone involved in it, you know, to set this up beforehand.
It's just...
I mean, if you've ever seen the show Mission Impossible, this is the way the CIA does certain operations like this.
They're very well planned, they're very well rehearsed, and they're very well executed.
That doesn't mean that they don't make mistakes or that mistakes aren't sometimes made, but when you look at the Kennedy assassination, for instance...
That's a very well executed assassination and there was very little left to chance in that situation and that's why it was so effective.
Right.
Well, in terms of studying false flags and I have various people who I've interviewed who, such as Ole Domogard, who have written books on this subject, and what we find are the same perpetrators are working for the company and start to show up time and time again lately.
Now, back in the day when Mary Meyer was murdered, it may have been a little bit different operation, but she was also an outspoken critic of the MKUltra You know, sort of program that was going on.
And actually, Cord Meyer was instrumental in that program, from what I remember.
And so there's no accident here that this individual, this person as a patsy, may have been spotted.
Although, from what I understand, his physical type did not match the physical type of Exactly.
It does look like the perpetrator, you know, who was a professional was probably a black man, but he was larger in stature based on the witness testimony originally, etc.
So we have a sort of...
An operation that's relying on prejudice and people having a lack of reliable witness testimony in terms of his physical stature.
One thing that helped get this other man off, I think as you said his name is Ray Crump.
Correct.
Was the fact that he was smaller in stature.
And there was even some question that Mary might have been able to overpower him because she was, if anything, taller than he was.
That's right.
And she was very physically agile.
You know, I mean, she really took care of herself.
She was in great shape.
She wasn't even 44 years old yet.
I mean, she, you know, any...
The assassin who would try and bring her down was in for a fight.
Of course, a man of her size or bigger could eventually overpower her, but she didn't go down without a fight.
I don't think someone as small and as meek as Ray Crump could have survived her wrath once She was engaged.
Yeah, well, by all descriptions, and you go into this in quite a bit of detail in the book, he was also completely clueless as to what he was supposed to even have been part of, was being arrested for, and was, you know, sort of a deer caught in the headlights type of individual at that time in his life.
So he was the perfect patsy, and we see this again and again even nowadays in False Flags.
But to get beyond this actual, now that you've more or less described the killing, can you talk about the relationship You know, with this person,
you know, with, you know, Cordmire and Mary and Angleton and how the situation could have sort of materialized to where she got to a place where what she was going to say would be so damaging that they had to take her out.
Can you address that at all?
Well, what I can say is, which I mentioned briefly already, is that she was a well-known person of integrity and she was no pushover.
She was very well-educated, very independent.
And of course, Angleton, in his wisdom of keeping her under surveillance, Knew what she was doing, knew what she was writing about, knew who she was talking to.
So they knew that should she start to talk and get an audience, it was going to create some very difficult problems for the agency and their role in this entire affair.
And it was a risk that they just could not take.
I mean, a number of books.
Well-researched books have pointed out that there's just a trail of bodies post-JFK assassination of people who knew too much and who could not be trusted not to talk.
And so a lot of people were eliminated for one reason or another.
And Mary is just part of that list.
I think what makes her such a standout Is, you know, her position in President Kennedy's life.
I mean, President Kennedy told his chief advisor, Kenny O'Donnell, that as soon as he got out of the White House, he was going to divorce Jackie so that he could be with Mary.
He was in love with her.
And really, I think Mary was the only woman that JFK could finally relate to and respect for You know, as a woman and as an equal.
I mean, this was a relationship of redemption for JFK, who we have all come to know had severe issues with emotional intimacy, had severe issues with women in general, having had the kind of relationship he had with his mother.
And, you know, he was a very wounded man.
Mary, on the other hand, is a very intact human being.
From day one, she has been encouraged to develop herself, to learn what being independent and independent as a woman really could mean in that day and age.
She was another kind of Eleanor Roosevelt type, where she She could pretty much do anything she wanted because she had that kind of true self-inner confidence in herself.
So that being who Mary was, I think, also posed some real problems because Angleton was also the godfather to her children.
Angleton and Cord Meyer were very close friends.
Cord Meyer knew that Angleton...
I was going to take Mary out, and he didn't have any problem with it.
I think he was severely depressed and alcoholic.
I don't think he ever got over the fact that Mary had left him.
Mary had initiated their divorce because she couldn't stand being around him anymore and what he had become under Alan Noah's.
Right.
Well, it is very interesting, the relationship between these various players.
Can you talk about the Kennedy assassination having happened in the same year?
In other words, you know, she was taken out within the year, so they weren't going to let her, you know, in other words, they weren't letting time go by at all.
And that's actually really fascinating because in a certain sense, she, along with other people, and I don't have a list of all the other people that have died, but I know that there is a list of potential witnesses that could have come forward in the years after the Kennedy assassination,
etc., And I know that, I don't know if you knew about the investigator Mae Brussel, but she was famous for being, she was a radio talk show host who did a great deal of investigation on this subject.
And she died.
I'm not sure whether there was suspicion around her death or not.
But in terms of the Kennedy assassination and the plot to take out Kennedy, the information that you have, as well as Martin Luther King, And it all seems to circulate around what was at that time a push of both Kennedys to move into peace,
to bring race relations into balance, and to change the world in ways that were certainly considered to be unacceptable to a certain group, a certain cabal.
So can you go even into the executive branch and talk about where you think beyond Dulles?
Because Dulles...
Is a character that we now, at least if you've read The Devil's Chestboard, you certainly get a large exposition on where he was coming from, his years sort of basically working with the Nazis very closely.
So anything to do with any of the other branches of government that you think might have been involved in all of this?
Well, I think the biggest thing to mention here Is that Kennedy planned to neuter the CIA. He was going to take away the operational arm to keep them from doing these covert operations where they would overthrow governments, where they would assassinate other political leaders of one kind or another.
He was just flabbergasted that Alan Dulles and his crew had been able to get away with this as long as they had.
He was really, you know, taking steps to, you know, take away a big part of their power.
And, of course, that was a very big threat at that time.
You also have Kennedy, you know, wanting to put a stop to things like the oil depletion allowance and really, you know, stepping on a lot of toes of very wealthy individuals Who stood to lose a lot of money should Kennedy have his way.
He wanted to make all kinds of changes in the Federal Reserve.
And then there was this fear of an emerging Kennedy dynasty.
There's no question that had Kennedy lived, He would have been re-elected in a landslide.
And the first thing he would have done is that he would have completely eliminated the war in Vietnam, or what war there was.
That was going to be...
That would never have happened.
The war in Vietnam would never have taken place had Kennedy lived.
And he had already put into force, through his National Security Action Memo 263, Very famous memo that he wrote that he wanted 1,000 soldiers out of Vietnam by the end of 1963 and the rest out by 1965.
That was part of the memorandum.
Within 48 hours, Lyndon Johnson shreds that memo and creates his own that immediately starts to escalate the entire Vietnam conflict.
There are just two things right there.
Very good point.
They had to get rid of him.
He was onto their game.
He was not going to allow himself to ever be manipulated by the CIA again, which they had done very early on in his presidency in the Bay of Pigs fiasco in Cuba, where they wanted him to bring in the military to Overthrow Castro, and he wouldn't do it.
He took the rap for that, but people were actually glad that he stood up and took responsibility for this operation.
And it was after that that Kennedy and his advisors realized, my God, what have we gotten ourselves into?
I mean, these people like Alan Dulles, they are running the country, and if we don't align with them, all hell is going to break loose.
They And that's what got him killed.
Okay, well, yeah, and I have to say that's a very good analysis.
It does appear, though, that we are at the same juncture.
As I read your book, I saw that you were describing the Cuban Missile Crisis and the plans of the Joint Chiefs, if I remember.
At that time was to actually create a nuclear war.
They were planning to attack Russia at that time, which is, it just boggles the mind.
But the strange thing is, and why this book is so timely right now, Is that we are at a juncture where this sort of thing is being contemplated again, or at least that's the way it looks in the news.
And this is actually quite shocking.
It also has to do with what was, in essence, becoming a build-up of nuclear warheads, etc., etc., and so on.
Kennedy was somebody who was perhaps the last president that they realized that they had to keep complete control of that office lest that person who perhaps they counted on as being able to manipulate from behind the scenes normally We're good to go.
That any new incoming president, right actually after he takes oath of office or she, is shown the Kennedy assassination, the Grutter film, and basically the lights come up and they ask any questions.
In other words, that's a very famous joke of George Carlin and very appropriate because it appears to have been the case.
And I have to say, Camelot has some insider information about this sort of thing from whistleblowers.
And so, you know, there's no doubt about it.
This is what we're talking about.
We're talking about what I see as a coup, as sort of the final...
I guess you might say the nail in the coffin to where this particular secret government decided that they had to take over in a big way and that that office would never again be subject to the whim of the people and or the person who held the office.
So and this is very dangerous stuff in our country, this this kind of consciousness.
So my question to you is, how has your book been received in the greater sort of milieu out there, especially the mainstream press?
How has it been treated, et cetera?
It's been completely ignored.
And, you know, The murder of Mary Pinchot Meyer in 1964 remains today Washington, D.C.'s most famous unsolved murder.
And along I come and write what I would consider a pretty definitive account of what actually took place and who was involved, particularly my own father, And the Washington Post won't touch it.
In fact, no media venue in Washington, D.C. will touch me.
What this tells us, Kerry, is our media has failed our democracy.
Right.
What I mean by that is not only was the American experiment in democracy, did it end in November of 1963 in a coup d'etat, But we no longer have the kind of freedom of press where we have real investigative journalism as one of the mainstays of our media.
We don't get real investigations in the New York Times or the Washington Post or on cable news.
It's all...
Cowering water for the national security apparatus, what the government wants the people to believe.
I mean, on the 50th anniversary of the JFK assassination, no major mainstream media outlet would even talk about there being a conspiracy theory.
I mean, I just found that utterly outrageous, given all the great material that citizens who love this country and who have dedicated their lives to uncovering bits and pieces of truth here and there have brought forth.
I mean, it's just astounding to me.
But again, there's only one thing to do, and that's for people To use the resources that they have, to step out of their ignorance, to become aware, to become enlightened.
We do have this wonderful tool called the Internet.
There's not always the complete truth out there, but there are more bits and pieces.
And if you're willing to do the work, you can get to the bottom of something.
And you sure as hell aren't going to get it from the mainstream media.
So...
This is where I think we're kind of in a transition phase right now where we need millions of more citizens of our democracy to wake up and stand up for what living in a democracy really needs to be about.
Absolutely.
It's very, very important that people start to realize how crucial this is and that this is not just a history lesson per se, but this is actually the beginnings of where we are today and what is really going on.
And these people are still alive.
These people are still operational.
And the people that have passed on, like Angleton, their sort of dastardly deeds, if you wish, whatever you want to call them, are still being covered up.
And people are being threatened.
Camelot has been threatened along these lines.
So this is not idle chatter, and it is extremely important for people to recognize that this is where our Absolutely.
Absolutely.
Yeah, and I mean, without people like you who are willing to put themselves on the line, you know, and risk their lives, really, to tell the truth about things that they are close to.
And, you know, we have so many people out there that are very close to many of these things that go on.
People that are like you, raised, you know, in families that are part of these things.
This is really a question.
What is What people need to do has to be, first and foremost, speak out.
And this is the one thing that people are not doing for fear of losing their lives, for the repercussions.
In other words, we're at a juncture where we're living in what is, in essence, Nazi Germany.
And the bringing over of the paperclip scientists and what, in essence, turned into The Secret Space Program is really an indication of all of this.
That's right.
So, in terms of, you know, when you did your investigation for this book, you had to talk to a number of people and there were a few people who refused, as I recall, to talk to you.
There is one woman, if I remember, who was quite close to the situation and Who then kind of suddenly moved away and has since, other than talking to one person, and I'm not sure what the outcome of that was.
I don't remember her name.
Yes, yes.
So can you talk a little bit about, you know, the nature, not only her, but the fact that there are witnesses alive today who know a lot more than they're saying about these events and others?
Well, I think that's very true.
You know, I mean, Anne Chamberlain, for instance, was a journalist, and she was also one of Mary Meyer's dearest friends.
And she was actually part of Mary's LSD cell group.
You know, Mary, who was a student of Timothy Leary, knew Timothy Leary really well.
Mary had this idea of She was a big believer in the power of hallucinogenic drugs like LSD and psilocybin.
And she had experimented with them herself, and she had just found it amazingly helpful.
And she wanted to turn on high-level people in government to help them see what real possibilities for life in the world were all about.
She did it with President Kennedy.
There's a significant amount of evidence in my book Jack Kennedy and Mary Meyer did a mild psilocybin session several weeks before he gave this beautiful American University commencement address.
And of course, Anne Chamberlain knew some of the details, but she wouldn't talk to me.
She wouldn't talk to anyone.
She was terrified after Mary was murdered because she put two to two together and She fled to Maine for a while.
She finally did talk to one other author who I befriended.
His name was Leo Damore.
And she spilled some of the beans to Leo.
And, of course, eventually Leo came around and told me what had been said.
But I could never get Anne to talk to me.
You know, she was a very close friend of my mother's.
That was probably one reason why.
But she was just livid.
Every time I asked her.
And of course, those little anecdotes are in the book.
Right.
So the LSD, the role it plays also of Timothy Leary, who becomes a very interesting character in this scenario.
And I am wondering, you know, because a lot of people have said that he was an agent working with the CIA, Which is, you know, something that I've heard over the years.
And yet, the way you paint him in the book is rather different than this.
Can you talk about that?
Well, you know, I really feel like Timothy Leary has gotten a very bad rap in this culture.
I think he was an extraordinary individual.
It doesn't mean he didn't have flaws, but I never found any credible evidence That Tim Leary was knowingly working for the CIA. Now, there may have been some projects that he was undertaking that were ultimately funded by the CIA, but I don't think he knew about it, if that was in fact the case.
Right.
Well, in essence, she approached him and she wanted to put a group of women together in Washington because she had found the benefits of, in essence, using LSD. And how it changed a person's consciousness.
And then, you know, this is during the 60s.
So, you know, this was a consciousness that was very common back then.
It's interesting how everything has changed in regard to all of that.
You know, people are not so willing to...
To talk about it, although a lot of people are willing to talk more than they used to, I guess, about things like DMT and so on.
But in essence, you know, this sort of thing of raising consciousness was really what she was all about.
And I think that, in essence, Kennedy agreed with her.
And so you had a simpatico going on there.
This does seem to have factored in and Leary did have a number of interactions with Mary Meyer.
Isn't that right?
Yes, that's absolutely correct.
And he actually, I mean, Tim was very taken with Mary, but this was during a time where Tim was so overwhelmed by the demands of his own work at Harvard and what he was doing.
It's not like he was talking to Mary every week or every day, anything like that.
She would come up to Cambridge, Massachusetts where he was teaching at Harvard and they would spend a little time together.
He would give her some things to read and they'd talk about.
She was very cryptic with Tim about what she was actually doing.
Tim kind of got the general gist of it, but He kept saying to Mary, look, why don't you bring your boyfriend up here?
We'll do a session together and he can really see what's going on.
Mary said, no, that won't be possible.
It wasn't until several years later that Tim realized who Mary was in terms of what she was actually up to and that her boyfriend was the President of the United States.
Absolutely.
Well, it is interesting that, you know, the mind-expanding qualities of LSD and the notion that ultimately it was used as a tool to, you know, in other words, if a person takes it knowingly and understands what they're doing, then they can have a positive trip and they, in theory, continue.
Certainly reach some very enlightening experiences, but if they're given it clandestinely, which is how it was used in MKUltra, it's quite the opposite.
In other words, people feeling that they have no control over themselves or their lives, etc., And who aren't used to mind-expanding experiences can completely freak out over it.
So it's a really interesting tool.
And it is fascinating that it had a role in this whole story that's really been underplayed.
I wouldn't be a bit surprised that Kennedy...
Explored this because he was much more open-minded than any of the people around him, strangely.
That's right.
And this is why I really carry out my next project.
I am going to reignite my push in Hollywood to make this Either a miniseries or a full feature length film.
You know, this is a story that does not need any Hollywood embellishment.
It's all there.
That's for sure.
And it just needs to be told in such a way that it is true to the historical truth of what actually happened.
And I think it would become not only a great film, a riveting film, But a tremendous educational tool for people to understand what really took place in that era and why we are where we are today.
Absolutely.
Well, I would be happy to try to help you if I can do anything in that regard.
I still have very strong desire to make movies in Hollywood that matter.
Under the circumstances, we are actually very close to being on the verge of being, as I said, in the same position as where they were in those days.
And the strange thing that we never expected is this sort of resurgence of what appears to be a sort of a Cold War, but maybe being manipulated because, you know, without an enemy, then militaries stand around with very little to do.
That's just the fact of it.
If you want to maintain and continue to raise a huge military budget, you have to find something for these people to do.
Unfortunately, making war on each other seems to be their objective.
You know, it goes deeper than that, but that seems to be the result of it.
So this is perfect for a movie.
There's no doubt about it.
I think, if I'm correct, you have approached Oliver Stone, but it doesn't appear you've gotten anywhere.
Anything to say about that?
Well, I know Oliver.
I've met with him a number of times.
He wrote a very nice blurb for my book.
But he's past this now.
He's doing other things.
And of course, he's coming out as we speak.
I think it's released today, his film on Edward Snowden.
I think it's going to be the best picture of the year.
I've seen the previews of it.
It's extremely well done.
But, you know, were I able to get Mary's Mosaic into development, I'm sure he would lend his name as an executive producer if we didn't ask him to do very much.
I mean, he really does support the foundation of stories like this, and particularly this one.
You know, I met with Oliver Very early on, back in 2000, because I had communicated with him before I had really, you know, stepped into the realm of commitment here.
And he invited me out to talk to him and I met with him and we had a really nice conversation.
So he was instrumental in helping me just You know, mobilize myself to, you know, really make a decision to do this.
But, you know, I think he's just a superb filmmaker and, of course, an outstanding artist, one of the best of our day.
Right.
So it would be, well, you know, I appreciate that he may be on to other things.
I know that, you know, it takes a long time to get a movie off the ground.
But it does also seem that he is sort of the perfect guy to pick up on something like this.
So, you know, maybe that will change.
Going, you know, and making a movie about Snowden in these, you know, this environment that we find ourselves.
I mean, this story is right along those lines as well.
Since we're really talking about a man who wanted to dismantle the entire CIA and the NSA was created as a sort of competitive agency in a sense.
And from what I understand, the competition goes back Many years between the two agencies.
But at the same time, we've got, in essence, another runaway agency in the NSA. And the surveillance technology, of course, that has been able to take hold of America.
And other countries around the world as well.
I mean, we're really talking about a surveillance society that came to the fore.
I have a whistleblower who said that he knew that Kennedy was on the way to Dallas, and one of the things he was going to do in Dallas was going to reveal the extent of How mind control was being put into the colleges and universities and that he wanted to warn the people that this would not be acceptable on his watch and that he did not want this surveillance society to manifest and have
its way with the United States.
As we see, unfortunately, that hasn't happened.
We are under this circumstance at this time.
So, in light of all that, I'm sure you deal with a lot of surveillance in your own life at this time.
How do you feel about the shutdown in Hollywood, but the media around your book and the fact that you're dealing with surveillance probably increasing?
Well, you know, I think surveillance is something that every citizen has to examine, because it's real, it's ubiquitous, you know, and again, thanks to Edward Snowden, we now know so much more than we ever did, and that has had profound repercussions in terms of an awakening.
So, like you, I applaud whistleblowers who are willing to take these kinds of steps in the service, really, of being a patriot to the true values of what it means to live in a democracy.
I mean, that's the only way a democracy is going to survive.
And, you know, unless we as citizens have access To bigger and bigger pieces of the truth.
Our country cannot grow.
Our country cannot evolve.
Individuals cannot truly grow or evolve unless they know the truth about themselves.
It's the same thing as a country.
It's the same thing in a democracy.
A democracy is always a work in progress just like people are.
And until people realize that Not only are they going to buy a house and have a mortgage and make a family, they also have to be citizens.
They have to realize that some part of their life must be given to ensure the vibrancy of the democracy that they're living in.
Absolutely.
You know, I've kept you for a while here.
We do have a chat room, and we may have some people who would like to ask questions.
So I'd like to give them a chance to do so if they do have any questions.
I don't know if any of our chat room have read your book, but they certainly are familiar with the Kennedy assassination.
And...
Becoming more aware of just how instrumental Mary Meyer was in the life of JFK is fascinating on a human level, but it actually portends more because we're getting to a time when actually but it actually portends more because we're getting to a time when actually the female energy coming into our planet is actually changing this sort of male paradigm that has been dominating this planet now
And I think And I think many people are aware of it.
And here was a woman who was really in the avant-garde of this movement, so to speak.
And we have a person who's highly respected by people who was very influenced by her.
And then she was murdered as part of an overall agenda.
So, you know, this is what we're talking about.
You know, this is very important.
And I note that there, I don't know if you're aware of it, there is a Kennedy assassination, I don't know, conference, I guess you call it, going on in Texas, from what I understand, around the, sometime, I think it's in the middle of October.
November.
Oh, November, okay.
And I was wondering whether you'd been invited to speak there, because, with how important your book is.
I was invited, and I did speak there, when the book first came out, the first edition came back out, which was in the fall of 2012.
So, you know, the third edition of my book has just been released, and it contains one last final chapter with regard to the so-called mysterious runner on the towpaths.
On the morning of the murder, this was a man by the name of Lieutenant William L. Mitchell.
And I'm not going to spoil it for you or your readers, but this last chapter examines in some detail and depth who Lieutenant Mitchell really was.
And he was more than just an army lieutenant.
We can leave it at that.
Okay, well, that's very fascinating.
What I am wondering is if you knew, you know, in other words, if you understand the cover-up and you're looking at people like one of the questions in the chat is asking about her children.
In other words, people that would have a vested interest in seeing You know, what they say justice done in searching for the killer, etc., etc.
Are there any of these people out there?
Are they making waves?
Are they trying to get your book sort of front and center with particular people, etc.?
Well, I mean, my book has sort of been...
It emerged and sort of become a little cult.
There's sort of a cult following of Mary's Mosaic.
And of course, it's really, in one way, as a one-woman friend of mine said, this is a chick flick book.
And I said, yes, it is.
It's the story of a very courageous woman who was not willing to just sit down and allow her government to ride roughshod over everyone.
She really wanted the truth to come out and she you know gave her life unknowingly that didn't think that that was going to happen but you know she was serious she was a serious enough person so that you know you know it did probably have to happen in her case.
I think you know if I Begin to get somewhat successful here, Carrie, in terms of getting this film project off the ground.
I have to find someone in Hollywood who has a lot of moral courage, who really gets what this story is about.
In fact, the film may not even be able to be made in the United States.
We may have to go to Europe to make it.
But it really...
I think the impact of the story in this day and age needs to be seen on screen, in addition to being in a book form.
It's just that, you know, less and less people read books now.
They want to go just, you know, see the movie, that kind of thing.
I appreciate that.
Well, along those lines now, someone is asking if her children have tried to pursue who killed their mother.
She did have a couple of children, didn't she?
Yes.
Oh, okay.
I'm sorry.
I missed that part of your...
No, that's okay.
I know the other two Meyer boys very well.
They won't speak to me.
They haven't spoken to me in years when they found out This book was coming out.
I think if you want to know my personal opinion about this, I think it's just profoundly, profoundly upsetting for them to even consider the fact that their mother was murdered by the agency that their father worked for and that,
in fact, their father Well, let's talk about that a little bit.
How did you become aware of your father's role?
Well, it sort of came through a little premonition one morning, which I write about in the book.
If you read Ben Bradley's 1995 memoir, he says in the book how he first learned that Mary might have been murdered.
And he gets a call from my own father, from while my father's at the CIA that morning.
And my father asks Ben, he says, Ben, are you listening to the radio?
And Ben says, no, Wister, why would I be listening to the radio?
I'm at work.
There's been a shooting down on the canal.
A woman was murdered.
Do you know where Mary was?
And it was sort of like, you know, it's kind of hint, hint.
This was all planned, of course, that my father would take on this role to call Ben Bradley.
And, of course, this is what begins...
The saga for Bradley realizing that his sister-in-law has just been murdered.
But it is done at a very specific time after the murder.
Ray Crump has been arrested.
But the police still don't know who the woman is.
She wasn't carrying any purse.
She wasn't carrying any identifying clothes with any name tag except for the gloves that she was wearing.
There was a tag inside one of the gloves that said Meyer on it.
And it was only going through the phone book later on that day that they isolated Mary Myers' residence at Georgetown.
And they drove by it.
There was no one home.
And they went to the Bradley residence, who just lived right around the corner.
And my father's phone call, plus the police showing up at his doorstep later on that day, was how The Bradleys found out that Mary was this woman lying in the morgue waiting to be identified.
Well, that is highly suspicious, but I don't understand what was the role of Ben Bradley.
That, to me, is also suspicious as well, having to do with the diary, where they went back, apparently, to the residence.
They went, first of all, somehow immediately to get the diary themselves.
The evidence, I guess, being that James Angleton might have gotten there first.
I'm not sure.
You know, in other words, Ben Bradley's role in this is also highly suspicious.
It does appear that your father was setting him up, and I'm not sure why or how that factored in.
He was a person in the media, you know.
This was someone that they were very close to.
His wife was her sister.
So, that's very strange that your father would call him out of the blue, just saying somebody's been murdered and then thinking, you know, where is one of their friends?
I mean, it doesn't, you know, obviously he had to know more than he let on to even make such a call.
It also seems, of course, being part of the CIA, that this type of thing would be premeditated.
So, Tell me about Ben Bradley's role in your view.
Have you come to any conclusions?
In the end, was he covering things up even when he wrote his book?
Well, let me answer your question indirectly.
I do not think Ben Bradley knew that the CIA had actually murdered Mary Meyer.
I... I just don't think that they...
In an operation like this, it is so highly compartmentalized that only a few people really know what is going on.
And even though Bradley had prior associations with the CIA in the 1950s, which he, of course, always wanted to deny, but there are documents showing that he was indirectly connected with the CIA, I... Really don't think he was implicated or had foreknowledge...
That the CIA was going to take Mary out.
Well, that being the case, why would he search so diligently for her diary when he must have known, you know, they knew about the relationship with Kennedy, and so they must have known that she was a threat, that what was in that diary was something that whoever killed her, if they hadn't gotten hold of it, that the CIA would want it.
Isn't that right?
According to Ben, And, you know, we have to take this with a grain of salt.
He always maintained that he didn't really know that Mary was having an affair with JFK. And it was only on the night of the murder when Ben got a call from another very dear friend of Mary's, Ann Truitt, who was in Japan at the time.
Now, Ann and her husband Jim did know about Mary's affair because Mary had shared it with them.
So it was Ann Truitt who was calling up Bradley's and saying, look, you've got to find the diary.
It's explosive.
And of course, Jim Angleton was at the house when Ann Truitt called.
And that was, I think, also a set up call, although I could never prove that.
But it was right after that telephone call.
That Ben Bradley and Jim Angleton went into Mary's studio.
And that's where I think Angleton made off with the diary.
I think that's where the diary was.
And he took the real diary on the night of the murder.
The whole thing about this artist's sketchbook was really a ruse.
You know, yes, Mary did have an artist's sketchbook.
It had little cryptic comments in it about her affair with JFK. But it was not her real diary.
The real diary contained quite a bit of information about her affair, about what they had been doing together, what they'd been talking about.
It contained information about her own research, about what had taken place in Dallas.
Mary was a journalist after she got out of college.
She knew how to write.
She knew how to put things together.
This diary was a very real thing to her and it was really one of the few ways she had during that final year of her life of really putting her thoughts together because this is not a cocktail party kind of conversation you can just have with anybody.
She was using her diary as a vehicle To put her own thoughts together and come to a deeper understanding of what was taking place.
But I know you say that Bradley supposedly didn't know about the affair, but I find that nearly impossible to believe.
Knowing husbands and wives and the fact that he was married to her sister.
And she was also, you know, she was used as kind of a double blind, I'm not sure what you want to call that, if I recall correctly.
You talk about them going on boat trips together, you know, social events where Kennedy would pretend to be after Tony, her sister, instead of her sister.
In other words, and yet it was clearly a setup, and that was used to misdirect people who were sort of on to their relationship.
Plus, wasn't it Catherine Graham's husband, who kind of went off the deep end, was something of an alcoholic, if I recall, and had sort of a breakdown.
But nonetheless, he went to a party, and he announced the relationship at this party.
It was very important.
Well, it wasn't a party, it was a news gathering.
I mean, there were several hundred people in the audience.
But it was some kind of roast or something, you know, wasn't it?
It was a newspaper convention that he went to in, I think it was in Texas.
Right, but this is much prior to all of this happening, in which Ben Bradley, I believe, and his wife were present.
Right.
Right.
No, you raise a very important point, Kerry.
And, you know, there are so many little unresolved details here.
As a writer, I really wanted to stick to what I could prove or, in a sense, what I could substantiate.
In retrospect, do I think Ben Bradley knew about the affair?
Yes, I do.
I don't know whether...
His wife knew.
You know, I interviewed Ben.
Ben gave me the only interview after shutting down the subject matter for over 25 years.
He agreed to talk to me because I brought up the fact that he had said that my father was the first one to tell him with his phone call.
So when I told him I was writing something, he agreed to sit down and talk with me.
He was on the verge of having some dementia at that point, but he was still pretty damn coherent.
And I really don't have the sense that his wife, Toni, knew about the affair.
I do think, as I continue to mull this over all the time, I do think it's probably pretty likely That Ben was aware of what was going on, but he never said anything to anyone about it as far as I know.
Yeah, that's very interesting.
I mean, all of this sort of lends itself to a movie because there are so many small plot lines that one could follow out.
There's also the ET question because I have a witness called Bill Holden who rode on Air Force One with Kennedy.
And they exchanged some sort of small conversation in which Kennedy actually acknowledged that he was aware that ETs existed and that he was very interested in them.
But he was very carefully, he did it in a very careful way with Holden.
And, you know, again, Holden was part of the staff on Air Force One at the time.
So, had you heard anything to do with the ET question?
Because there is an organization, MJ-12, I don't know how much you're aware of it, that was put together by Truman to investigate this story.
Angleton and others have been very involved in the cover-up with this story.
So, Mary Meyer, you know, when you get into LSD, you get into opening your mind about these kinds of things.
It's quite possible that she and Kennedy discussed this question as well.
Did you ever hear anything about that?
Well, you're bringing up a dimension of which I am very well aware of, and you're quite intuitive.
The answer to your question is just, you know, I interviewed Bill Holden.
I also interviewed this other guy, Brigadier General Steve Lovkin.
I know...
A fair amount about the UFO phenomenon.
I've read a number of books.
There's one guy in particular, Richard Dolan, who is a friend of mine.
I think he's the most articulate person on this subject matter because he is an Oxford University trained historian.
He's done a lot of very credible research in this arena.
So, the answer to your question is, I do believe that Kennedy was aware of the UFO phenomena, and I think it's probably highly likely that he and Mary talked about it.
But, you see, I was in a difficult position, Kerry.
I couldn't just write, you know, little snippets like this.
I had to write a credible book That was diligently researched.
And so I did not bring that dimension of the story into this book.
But I do believe that Kennedy was aware of the phenomenon.
And I think there's some very credible evidence that he wanted to make the American public aware of it.
And that was another reason why the CIA felt like they had to get rid of him.
You know, they do not want this information coming out.
Yeah, and I appreciate that.
I appreciate your candor in this case because I know it's difficult to, you know, as an author and certainly investigating this very confusing story, it brings one more aspect that, of course, deepens the conspiracy.
So to speak.
And yet it is actually front and center in the research that I do, which involves the secret space program and the reason for the coup.
In other words, we know there was a coup at the time with the death of Kennedy, actually both Kennedys, and Martin Luther King.
And, you know, the entire country took a turn.
And it seems to have been also aimed at following the money.
And I've interviewed Catherine Austin Fitz as well, who was a former housing secretary, who has gone down this rabbit hole and was also invited to see, you know, the body of an ET. You may have heard that story.
She declined, but she was, you know, very involved in government at one point.
And she is a very serious financial investigator and advisor, even to this day.
And so you understand where she...
I know Rich Dolan very well.
I know I've read his books.
He's an excellent historian, absolutely.
And he has also been instrumental in giving Katherine Austen Fitz information to help her on her quest to figure out where the Black, what we call the Black Project money goes.
And the fact that, you know, for example, we have Rumsfeld announcing that $3 trillion has just disappeared.
You know, this is the kind of thing when you start following the money and you look at the Vietnam War, what was the reason for the Vietnam War?
What was really going on there was an incredible drug trade that was financing.
As Afghanistan also does to this day.
In other words, we're talking about a funnel of money that is going down the drain, going into this, what has in essence become the secret space program.
So that there was a purpose behind the coup that involved putting together a very serious, very secret plan Secret space program that involves a lot more.
And, you know, it's not the purpose of this interview to go into all of that, but the ET question and even defending the Earth against what they, you know, what the military mind perceives as a potential threat is involved.
And so Kennedy's role here would have, again, been...
As an obstruction to what their plans were, and their plans were more far-reaching than most people realize.
And this is important when you're looking to explain a story as to why these individuals took over our government and why to this day they're going down the road they are.
Yes, and it also reiterates what you and I talked about a little while ago, which was that President Kennedy He is the only president since Franklin Roosevelt, I think, who really stood up on his own two feet and would not allow the national security apparatus to manipulate it.
And that's what got him killed.
Right.
So, just, I don't want to keep you too much longer, but I do have a couple other questions coming along here, and I think it's very important that we, you know, that if people have questions, we try to get at least a little bit of feedback from you.
Fire away.
One person wants to know if you think that Angleton Burned Memo is genuine.
I'm not sure...
What they mean by the burned memo.
Well, the burned memo refers to a memo where Kennedy tells the space program that he wants them to share information with the Russians on extraterrestrial phenomenon.
I think that's what this person is referring to.
All right.
Fair enough.
Yes.
Okay.
And there is a memo that With scribblings with Angleton about it, and the memo, as far as I can tell, is very legitimate, which brings us back again to, you know, was JFK going to be the disclosure president?
Was he going to bring out to the American public and the world the fact that, you know, we have been visited for years Probably thousands of years in one form or another.
Certainly, this was President Eisenhower's experience.
I interviewed a guy by the name of Brigadier Steve Lufkin.
I don't think he's alive anymore, but we had a fantastic interview in which he told me that he worked in the White House Signal Corps, and he worked With Eisenhower, who of course was very intrigued by the whole UFO question, and it was one of his favorite subjects, and then they took away his assets, and he was very upset about it.
That was, I think, partly the reason that Eisenhower gave the speech that he gave when he left his last speech, when he warned American citizens that the military industrial complex was for real and was very dangerous.
Right.
Yeah, very, very interesting group of information.
And all of this really requires more investigation.
I have to say there are lots of loose ends here, you know, that we're kind of highlighting.
One of the things in the chat room somebody wants to know, have you ever researched the Black Pope and the Jesuit order of Vatican assassins?
No, I haven't.
Okay.
I wonder if you're aware of...
Oh gosh, what's the name of this...
Oh, there's another group of assassins that are also well known.
In other words, you know, what it reminds me of to some degree is Three Days of the Condor, one of my favorite movies ever.
Yes.
Great film.
Great film.
And I think that that points up the situation that we're involved in here.
And this is a kind of thing where someone like a Snowden kind of reminds me of what went on back in that time, right?
So we're talking about a person who is working at a lower level in this military-industrial complex who becomes aware Of something going on in, you know, on a very high level, a takeover, in essence, of the government.
And then he himself gets involved and becomes, in a sense, the prey.
But, you know, it is very interesting.
This is what we're dealing with.
We're dealing with people that know what's going on, who refuse to come forward because they're free for their lives, and yet The result of what's happening is that these people who have taken over America are very well ensconced in their control positions.
So if people don't speak up, what are we left with?
That's really the question.
And so I hope this video will go out.
I hope many people will see it.
I want to ask you if you have any...
Let me say, any last minute things that you might want to add that we might not have touched on in terms of this story and your wonderful book?
Well, we've covered an amazing amount of ground today.
I want to commend you as an interviewer for the questions and the trajectories that you've chosen.
I think my My parting words to people is, look, don't give up hope.
The thing that you can do is never stop educating yourself.
Don't allow the mainstream media to dictate and tell you what's real and what isn't real.
Don't take anything at face value.
Again, we have this wonderful tool called the Internet.
And there are places on the internet that are extremely valuable.
You know, the really good investigative journalists who are doing what I think are outstanding work in this day and age, Robert Parry, John Pilger, Seymour Hersh, these are the people who I think are dedicated to giving us a bigger piece of the truth every time they write something.
And it's worth the effort in terms of reading what it is they are giving us.
And it is worth the effort to keep oneself informed and aware.
Absolutely.
Well, one last question and then I'm going to let you go.
What about, because we're really in a time when there's a very probably going to be a financial reset of some kind, and Kennedy was also very involved at that time with the possibility of changing, you know, our currency and And changing all of that and getting away from fiat currency, from what I understand.
And that may have also contributed to why he was killed.
Did you ever investigate that angle and did you ever talk to any bankers, etc?
Well, I did some investigation of that, but I started to run into deadline problems, truthfully.
And so that was an arena Of Kennedy that I did not seize upon.
But, you know, he wanted definitely to get rid of the Federal Reserve and give those powers back to the United States Treasury.
And, of course, move from the gold standard into silver.
And I think, again, this was a move where he was really stepping on a lot of people's toes.
And it was one more reason that the bankers got together and basically also said to Alan Dulles, you've got to do something here.
You've got to take this guy out, which he did.
Right.
Well, because we know we're run by corporations in the end, global corporations.
So this is not just the United States we're talking about.
We're talking about, well, it's a world takeover scenario that does involve what we know as the New World Order.
Right.
Thank you so much for coming on the show.
We benefit from the sort of neglect that the mainstream media has given you, and I do commend you again.
for your courage because I know that this area of investigation is fraught with threats and added surveillance and all kinds of things so I want the viewers to be well aware that you have put yourself on the line in a very serious way And that you've done this on behalf of justice and the American people and, you know, the democracy that we wish we had but no longer appear to.
As well as to the memory of both JFK and Mary Meyer, I would assume, because this appears to be more than an intellectual pursuit in your case.
Much more.
And I really, again, thank you, Carrie.
For this time today, you were just outstanding in terms of interviewing and pulling all the really juicy, important material Out of this story.
And I hope your readers will consider buying the book and reading it.
I think they'll be in for a great ride.
Absolutely.
And I also hope that it gets made into a movie.
So let me tell you that.
And if I can, I will certainly spread the word in any context that I have to try to get the ball rolling for you.
And if I come across anyone who does have interest, I will let you know from my angle.
Because I do live in L.A. area and I do have some dealings there.
So thank you again for coming on the show.
And I'd love to have you back if there's any new developments.
If you even just like to come back and talk more in more depth about the book, you have an open invitation.
Thank you so much.
I really appreciate it.
All right.
So thank you, everyone, for listening.
And again, thank you, Peter, Jenny.
And please do read the book.
I'm going to let you go, Peter.
Put the credits on the screen.
And thank you again.
Good enough.
Take care.
Okay.
Bye-bye.
So this is what's going on here.
We're very happy to have been able to have Peter Jenny on the show.
This is really a groundbreaking story, and it is very important that the story get out, that more people become aware of Of this portion of the story of what went on with Kennedy.
And so I encourage everyone to read his book.
Mary's Mosaic is the name of the book.
We will also, if it hasn't happened already, we do have the Camelot store and we're starting to put Amazon Books in there linked through an affiliate program into our Camelot store.
So again, you can go to my website at projectcamelotportal.com And look for Mary's Mosaic.
Hopefully it's been put into my store.
If not, you can certainly go directly to Amazon.com.
And the other thing is that Peter Jenny has a website.
I believe the website is called Mary's Mosaic.
I have linked it on my page where I have the announcement for the show.
So if you can You can go there and find it.
Yeah, it's called marysmosaic.net.
That's his website.
So I'm sure he has the book for sale there.
And I think he will probably have some additional information available for those of you who are researchers and want to learn more.
This is fascinating.
There is insider information to do with the death of Martin Luther King.
As well as Robert Kennedy.
And, you know, I have to say that there's a lot more research that can be done and getting these people to also together to talk with each other, these investigators, into these sort of diabolical, you know, assassinations, into these sort of diabolical, you know, assassinations, the false flags going on around the globe, obviously, some very key ones that have happened in the United States as well.
This is really where it's at, because in understanding, you know, the motivations, the way they're operating and what they may do in the future can help prepare you and your loved ones for for these eventualities as to what may go on.
And standing up for the truth is is really important.
And I have to just say that this is a very brave man because Camelot knows firsthand that What doing what he's doing entails.
So thank you for listening and have a great weekend.
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