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July 31, 2015 - Project Camelot
01:37:45
INTERVIEW WITH MICHAEL SCHRATT: AN INVESTIGATION INTO BOB LAZAR & S4
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Hi everyone This is Carrie Cassidy from Project Camelot, and I am here with Michael Schrat.
We're going to be doing an investigation into the claims of Bob Lazar, and he's written a paper, and that paper is available on my website.
If you go to the projectcamelotportal.com and just click on the poster for the Bob Lazar report, Hi everyone, this is Carrie Cassidy from Project Hamlet and I am here with Michael Schrat.
We're going to be doing an investigation into the claims of Bob Lazar.
Michael?
Yeah.
And that paper is available on my website.
Are you watching this at the same time as you're...
We've got a repeat.
...for the Bob Lazar event tonight, and then you should...
You have sound...
...to his paper.
Hi, everyone.
This is Terry Clasity from Project Hamlet.
Okay, this is really bizarre.
...and I'm here with Michael Shratt.
We're going to be doing an investigation into...
Sorry.
Sorry.
I'm sorry.
Sorry.
Oh, God.
Never a dull moment.
All right.
Michael, are you still there?
Hello?
Hello?
I'm still here, Carrie.
Okay, very good.
So...
I'm not sure what happened there, but whatever.
So anyway, I'm going to stop sharing this picture.
And at this point, you should be able to see the Bob Lazar, one of the photos that Michael's using from the time of Bob Lazar.
And Michael, I don't see you on screen, so I hope you have your camera on so that we can...
Actually see you later.
I'm going to give you a short introduction here, okay?
Okay.
So Michael Shratt is a private pilot military aerospace historian.
He's lectured across the country on the unique subject of mystery aircraft and classified propulsion systems.
Very deep within the military industrial complex.
A guest speaker at Oshkosh Art Venture, 2006-2007 event, the world's largest air show, Michael has developed a number of contacts which have had first-hand experience dealing with classified black programs, including former U.S. Air Force pilots, retired naval personnel, and aerospace engineers.
Michael currently works as a solid works draftsman in Tucson, Arizona.
In an effort to expose government fraud, waste, and abuse, Michael devotes much of his free time to researching aerospace technical documents, conducting interviews, and traveling to multiple university archives.
As a concerned citizen, it is his belief that our constitutional obligation to question authority and demand an accounting of special access programs that bypass congressional oversight and public scrutiny.
So it is our constitutional obligation to question those things.
So, Michael, welcome and welcome.
I guess this will be...
I guess people can see your picture here that is from your paper, I believe.
And do you want to proceed and give yourself, I guess, a bit of a more extensive introduction to explain why you went into this investigation on Bob Lazar?
Sure, Carrie.
Well, again, three quick things, Carrie.
Thank you very much for giving me the opportunity to be a part of your program.
I really do appreciate it.
Number two, I want to make clear that this is not a personal attack against Bob Lazar.
I mean, I've met Bob Lazar personally.
I think he's a funny guy.
He's got a quirky sense of humor.
So this is not a personal attack on Bob Lazar.
This is strictly a detailed examination of his claims of what allegedly happened at S4. So I want to make that clear.
Okay.
Your volume is a little low.
Could you turn yourself a little louder?
Yep.
Let's see here.
Okay, I've got it up all the way to the top here.
Yeah.
I'll turn mine up a bit louder here.
Anyway, I hope that it's coming across.
Yeah, so I basically just wanted to say that I met Bob Lazar.
I think he's a funny guy.
And, you know, really, it's just an examination of his claims.
The third thing is, I've already gotten yelled at for being too soft on Lazar.
So anyway, I'm not gonna, you know, get into names.
But Kerry, we can proceed anytime you want to go here.
Okay, I just want to say that I am going to be inviting John Lear and Bob Lazar to counter these claims.
That's great.
That's great.
And hopefully we can get them on the show.
I would love to get some feedback.
That's fine with me.
So why don't we begin, Carrie?
I thought we would start here.
And again, as you mentioned, I created a PDF file, which everyone can follow along with the link that you provided.
And thank you for doing that.
So I figured we would start Kerry at the beginning here, and I want to basically start with Bob's claim.
This is not my claim, this is Bob Lazar's claim.
According to Bob Lazar, between December of 1988 through April of 1989, he was employed by the United States Department of Naval Intelligence to reverse engineer the propulsion systems of extraterrestrial craft at a top-secret facility known as S-4, Located approximately 12 miles south of Groom Lake.
Now that's the claim, not my claim, but that's Bob's claim in a nutshell.
So Kerry, the $74 million question is, is Bob Lazar telling the truth?
That's what we want to try to explore this evening here.
I also want to state all that glitters isn't necessarily gold.
So on the surface, it sounds great.
It's something that we'd like to believe, but maybe it's nothing more than just glitter.
We're going to look at that.
I also want to give credit to John Andrews.
He was a senior project design engineer, testers model corporation in San Diego.
He was responsible for designing the F-19 that eventually turned out to be the stealth fighter.
He's the one who conducted the interviews with Bob in the early 1990s to vet out the details of the S-4 sport model.
I want to give credit to John Andrews as well.
Okay, so according to Bob Lazar, now this is his claim, he has a master's degree in physics from MIT and also a master's degree in electronics technology from Caltech.
However, Kerry, he has never produced his original master's degree from either MIT or Caltech.
He's never produced it.
It's a no-show.
There's nothing there.
He's never been able to produce the original master's degree.
And every effort to locate those degrees has completely failed, including the research by Stanton Friedman, Also, I've got a copy of the MIT yearbook during the early 1980s.
Stan Friedman did a very investigative search of the early 80s yearbooks.
There's nothing there.
There's no name.
There's no picture.
He doesn't appear in any of the yearbooks.
So that's a red flag that we need to look at.
I've got a letter here to John Andrews from Robert Kiesler, dated March 19, 1990, talking about his efforts to find Bob's magnetohydrodynamic master's thesis from MIT. And it says, Dear Mr.
Andrews, I am sorry we are unable to locate a copy of Mr.
Robert Scott Lazar's thesis on MHD in our facility.
So let's review this.
According to Lazar then, the government not only wiped out his degrees, his both degrees, they wiped out all of the yearbooks, so in essence they had to crawl up into the dusty ceiling attics of all the graduates from MIT and steal the yearbooks out, and then they also scrubbed his magnetohydrodynamic master's thesis.
It's completely gone from every repository.
Carrie, that just doesn't sound logical or reasonable to me.
If he's telling the truth.
Okay.
Okay, so we'll continue on here.
Also, letter to John Andrews from John Orth, dated March 27, 1990, and it says, I have not been active in MHD work for several years, and I am not aware of the Lazar thesis.
I cannot imagine that MIT cannot find it.
So again, this is the second time these are the two top repositories for magnetohydrodynamic master thesis, and it's a no-show.
So they removed it from MIT. They removed it from these other repositories.
So now we've got six data points where there's nothing there.
So how do we reply to this, Kerry?
If he is a senior master physicist working at S4 and he has these credentials, how can he back it up?
Where's the paperwork to back it up?
That's something we should explore.
We should answer that.
Can someone give us an answer to that?
Okay.
What do you think, Carrie?
I can give you a couple of things.
First of all, have you heard of sheep dipped?
I have heard that term before, yes.
Okay.
And you understand, I've actually pulled up a definition here.
Someone here says it's slang.
I know it's used, they're saying it's an intricate army-devised process by which a man who is in service agrees to go through all legal and official notions of resigning from the service then is actually, instead of being released, his army, his files are pulled, etc., etc.
So that's the formal way that they sheep dip people.
But it's important to recognize, I think, that I have another whistleblower, Brian O'Leary, who is a highly respected ex-astronaut who was supposed to go to Mars, as you may recall, who has since passed on.
And he spoke extensively about several efforts on the part of Caltech and also, for one thing, the San Diego paper, where a journalist was actually fired for trying to cover his career as an ex-astronaut and Caltech also denied, tried to erase his records.
And he made every effort to stop them from doing so.
And he was, I believe, partially, at least partially successful in that effort.
But it is a lesson to know that if they decide they want to disappear somebody and put their records into question, they can do it.
Okay.
Then how do we explain the yearbooks, Carrie?
Because that would have been printed in the 83-82 timeframe.
How do we explain that?
Would they have gone through all the attics of all the hundreds of graduates and pulled out all the yearbooks?
How do we get around that?
I don't have an explanation for it, so I couldn't tell you.
I think Bob Lazar himself would have to address that.
Okay, fair enough.
Okay, let's move on to Bob Lazar's W-2.
Okay, so first of all, he said he worked at S-4 and I have him on record.
If you hear Lazar speak about his experience at S4, he says that he was there in 1988 and 1989, and we have him on tape from The Billy Goodman Show, It leads you to believe that Lazar was there for like years or months at a time.
It turns out, according to Bob's own lips, he was only at S4 for a total of six days total.
That's it.
Six days.
So his whole story revolves around six days.
Now we have his W-2 here from 1989.
If that's true, where's his W-2 for 1988?
It's a no-show.
Where are the pay stubs?
It's a no-show.
There's nothing there.
He also states that he was employed and paid for by the United States Department of Naval Intelligence.
If we go to the next slide, Kerry, I've got a letter from Captain U.S. Navy R.A. Jones to John Andrews, dated March 18, 1991, indicating there is no such organization as the United States Department of Naval Intelligence.
So it cannot be Lazar is getting paid for them.
Oh, well, I've heard of it, so I'm sure that it exists.
There's other names, but the United States Department, according to the U.S. Navy, there is no such organization.
Okay.
I'm not sure what you're saying.
I mean, in other words...
If I say Navy Intel and you say there's no such organization as Navy Intel, am I wrong?
I'm going directly off his W-2, United States Department of Naval Intelligence.
All right, well, this can be faked.
I mean, documentation can absolutely be faked.
I'm not sure where that document comes from or if it's even legitimate.
Okay, are you talking about his W-2 or the letter from R.A. Jones?
The W-2.
Okay.
I know you're saying that came from Bob Lazar, but as part of one's cover, right, they're going to give you fake documents.
This is obvious.
Okay, but I mean, if Lazar is trying to prove his case, you would think he'd be giving us the real W-2.
Well, you don't have the W-2 from a top secret, above top secret organization.
There's no way.
Okay, okay.
But just going by what this naval officer said, there is no organization.
The other thing is, if you look on the upper right-hand corner, it says OMB. That stands for Office of Management and Budget.
There's not supposed to be anything on that.
That's nothing but a form letter.
There's not supposed to be anything written beyond that part to the right.
So the E-67 22 MAJ should not appear there whatsoever.
In all IRS forms, documents, that area is left completely blank.
And he was only paid a total of $958.11 for work performed for W-2 1989 on the most top-secret program of all time.
He only got 958 bucks.
Actually, well, I mean, for what it's worth, my understanding is he actually went back to work for them not that long ago.
Well, it remains to be seen, but I don't know how he would get there from Michigan.
He'd have to fly.
No, he wasn't living in Michigan when, I mean, this was a few years ago, but he actually was brought back in, according to John Lear.
Okay.
According to Stanton Friedman, He only graduated 261 out of 369 of his high school class carry.
That's not good enough to get into MIT or Caltech.
You'll never get in with those kind of credentials.
You need to be at the top 10 or 5%.
You can't get into MIT when you're at the bottom one-third.
It's just not going to happen.
They won't accept you.
They only accept the best of the best.
So how could Lazar have got to MIT? It just doesn't add up.
Just doesn't add up.
Okay.
Well, I can't tell you how he would do that.
Okay.
All right.
Here.
He worked at the facility 12 miles south of Groom Lake at a place called S4. But if you look, Carrie, on this map of the Nevada test site and training range, You'll see that area S4 is actually way off to the left in Tonopah at the Tonopah test range, which is a radar facility.
S4 is not located south of Green Lake.
It's not even on the map.
And over to the left of allegedly S-4 is the atomic testing range.
That's where hundreds of above ground and below ground nuclear tests were done in the 50s and 60s.
So that whole area is contaminated with radioactive fallout.
But yet Lazar says that he was working at a flight test center at Papoose Lake where the flights of the S-4 were going on.
That whole area, Kerry, is hot.
It's radioactive.
Why would you have a top-secret testing facility in a radioactive, contaminated area?
It doesn't make any sense.
Okay, well, you know, this could be a cover story.
So, in essence, a lot of the details around it wouldn't check out.
So what's the cover story, Carrie?
Specifically, what is the cover story you're talking about?
The cover story is saying, first of all, there may well be an underground base and a base called S4. I've heard it referred to by other people besides Lazar.
And, you know, we don't know exactly what goes on in Area 51.
I do know tonopause out there.
I can tell you that there's tons of information about things going on at Tonopah, and I can say that it's very possible that S-4 is there as well.
Whether something is used as a nuclear test zone doesn't necessarily disqualify it for being occupied by the military, especially if they're using it for above-top secret projects.
Okay.
Black projects will allow them access to materials that will also decontaminate zones that have high radiation, etc.
So you'd have to actually go out there, test the radiation, and see if it's still there.
The other thing is that he may be purposely giving you misdirection.
In other words, his facts are not...
You're supposed to be Suspicious of everything he says.
That's part of the game.
True.
But he's the one who said that it was south of Groom Lake at the Papoose Mountain Range.
So I'm only going by what he said.
In other words...
Maybe it's north of Grimwike, for all you know, or west or east.
In other words, I mean, I know so many whistleblowers that will take details, and they always put the truth in with lies.
That's the way they save their own lives.
This is how they get away with doing what they do.
So he is supposed to be suspect to you and to everyone else for that matter.
Okay, now if you look at the other chart to the right, Kerry, you'll see that the restricted area of Groom Lake encompasses half of Papoose Lake.
If Lazar is telling the truth and there's test flights of extraterrestrial dish-shaped craft at Papoose Dry Lake, Why doesn't the restricted area encompass the southern end of Papoose Lake?
You'd think that it would encompass the whole thing, but it doesn't.
It cuts Papoose Lake right in half.
So if you're having a test flight and there's a malfunction and you wander beyond that restricted area, now you're in a completely restriction of airspace.
That doesn't make any sense.
That should encompass the entire southern area of Papoose Lake.
It doesn't make any sense.
Are you familiar with the Tall Whites?
I've heard the term, yes.
Okay, Charles Hall, the Tall Whites.
Okay.
He's written like four books about them.
He's not the only person to testify about the Tall Whites, but his testimony in those books, and I've met the man.
He has a handler.
I'm not going to say who it is.
He's a brilliant man, and he has written extensively about the Tall Whites and having bases in Hidden using, you know, stealth, basically masking mountainsides and so on.
So, you know, look, I don't know if that's the case.
I have no idea if they're in that.
I know they're somewhere around that area.
Let's say that.
Okay.
Again, here's the map of the Nevada test site, and you can see The atomic testing area in Area 2, Area S, and Area 9 would be highly contaminated.
Area 4, you can see, is off to the left.
That's all contaminated area.
Now, if that's true, you wouldn't want to be around there.
People who have gone there, like Jerry Friedman, he died of cancer two years later from walking through that area.
Well, Sean David Martin hasn't died.
Neither has John Lear.
I don't believe John Lear has walked across Papoose Lake.
I don't think he's walked across the whole Papoose Lake.
Well, you just said that people have gone there.
I mean, what, what, gone where?
That's quite a large area.
What are you referring to exactly?
Gary Freeman has personally walked across Papoose Lake.
He walked all the way across it.
He was tracking the trail of the 49ers, and he walked across that whole area, and he was never stopped by security.
So where is this oppressive security that Lazar talks about?
If that's true, he would have been stopped in his tracks.
Who is this person?
Is he a well-known person?
George knows him, and I have him in the book.
I mean, well-known to the public.
I couldn't say that he's well-known to the public.
He's an archaeologist.
He's an explorer.
Okay, well, all I can say is, look, if you're hiding something and you're surveilling that area, who they let in, why they let them in, et cetera, et cetera, you know what I'm saying?
In other words, I appreciate your logic and I think you've done a good job here.
So continue.
Thank you.
Go right ahead.
Hello?
Hello?
Michael hello Okay.
Unbelievable.
Michael?
Hello?
Hi, everyone.
It looks like we're once again being knocked off the air by Google Hangouts.
Same thing happened to me the other night, so I don't know.
I guess we're really pushing the envelope here.
Sorry, I'm going to try to get us back on, so stand by, please.
Thank you.
Michael.
Yep, I'm here.
Oh my god.
Okay, great.
What happened?
There was a huge lightning strike here.
Oh, no kidding.
Yeah, it sounded like a sonic boom.
And was that knocked off the air?
It kicked off my internet.
Are you having a storm, or is this a lightning strike reserve?
It's a very light storm, but it was a very powerful thunder lightning strike.
But it looks like we're still on for now, though.
That's good.
Wow.
Okay.
Hold on one second.
Hopefully we didn't totally lose our audience.
Okay, Michael, can you get your stuff back up there so that people can see what you're presenting?
Okay, I've got it.
I've got the whole thing up here.
Can you see that, Carrie?
I've got the PowerPoint up.
Okay, there might be a delay.
I'm not seeing it at the moment.
I don't know if I've got to share.
Share, start share screen.
How about now?
Yes.
Okay.
Excellent.
All right.
So let's continue, Kerry.
Now this is something that even Bob questioned as well.
He said that when he saw the one and only test flight of the sport model at Papoose Lake, there was a guy with a two-way communication radio who was allegedly speaking to the disc.
Now, if that's true, and the sport model creates its own artificial gravitational field, how can radio waves penetrate and get into the sport model as it's flying?
How do we answer that, Carrie?
Okay, hold on one second.
I'm waiting to see if we're actually broadcasting.
Okay, I'm checking with somebody who's watching this, hoping that we're broadcasting.
Okay, yes.
Okay, I guess we're back on.
All right.
I'm just going to go over that point really quickly then.
Do that again, please.
Okay, so this is something that even Lazar questioned, Kerry, in multiple interviews.
He stated personally that when he saw the one and only test flight of the sport model at Papoose Range, On the dry lake and this craft hovered off the dry lake bed and he was in full view of this and saw the whole thing happen.
He noticed that in the very near vicinity to him there was a gentleman with a two-way what he believed to be a two-way radio communication walkie-talkie type device Allegedly in contact with whoever or whatever was in the disk.
Now, if this is true and the sport model creates its own artificial gravitational field, how can the radio waves penetrate that field to contact whatever was in the disk, Carrie?
How do we answer that?
Well, I'm not a scientist, but I'm not sure why there's a problem.
I mean, radio waves, how do we know what radio waves can penetrate in terms of Well, Lazar himself said that that's impossible.
There's no possible way for radio waves to penetrate an artificially created gravitational field.
There's no way.
Even Lazar states that.
Well, maybe he's mistaken.
I mean, you know, need to know.
Okay.
Well, I mean, that's something that should be addressed.
The other thing, too, is he said that when he was going through the S4 facility, when he saw the S4 sport model for the very first time, he said that there was an American flag on the craft itself.
Whether it was painted, it was a decal, Regardless, there was an American flag on the sport model.
Now, if that's true, and he also said that there was a very high voltage electrical corona discharge, like a blue colored corona that encompassed the sport model as it was powered up and went into flight, that coronal discharge would fry carry that decal right off the top surface of that disc.
There's no way that thing would stay on there.
Well, then how do you explain it?
I explain it by it can't be.
There can't be a flag on that thing.
It can't be painted on.
It's just not going to happen.
It would be burned off, Carrie.
Have you read Sean David Morton's Sands of Time?
I have not read that book, no.
Okay.
Well, it is actually the testimony of a whistleblower who ran Area 51 and also the Dulce Base.
Way, way back in the early days and has died.
His family are still living.
His lawyer, when he died, contacted Sean David Morton and gave him all of his information about the time that he served.
And that's what comprises what is fiction, which is fact written as fiction, Sands of Time.
It's an excellent book.
I highly recommend it.
And it is literally that testimony of that man.
Now, there were, and he writes about those so-called sports models, keeping in mind that our military was working avidly to basically back-engineer the technology.
So whether you're looking at a sports model that is ours or a sports model that is theirs is also something to question.
Okay, that sounds good.
That sounds good.
I mean Either way, we're talking about huge claims here.
We are talking about extraordinary claims, and they do require extraordinary evidence.
And if you really look at the evidence or lack thereof that Bob Lazar has presented, it would never stand up in a court of law, Carrie.
There's no...
He's a disinfo.
You know, by nature of what he does, he has to give a certain amount of disinformation.
I mean, you know, this is what whistleblowers do, again, to save their lives and to keep their...
Sort of relationship with the dark side, you know, the black projects, healthy and alive, and so they don't get killed for coming out and saying anything.
So it is a combination of information that is correct and disinfo.
And you may be accurately pointing out the areas of disinfo.
And, you know, so kudos to you for that.
Continue because it's very interesting and probably entertaining to some.
Okay, I just want to know what the bottom line is.
Now here's the other thing, Carrie.
If this is true and they really were testing extraterrestrial craft at S4, where are the support vehicles, Carrie?
Where are the emergency response vehicles?
Where are the fire trucks?
Where are the ambulance craft?
Where are the supporting vehicles?
He never mentioned that there were any fire engines in any of the nine hangar bays, and there were never any other hangar bays that led outside either.
So are we to believe, Kerry, that if an American pilot was test flying one of these craft and it had a malfunction and crashed at the southern tip of Papoose Lake, the nearest ambulance, Kerry, would be over 12 miles away.
Response time would be upwards of 30 minutes.
By the time the ambulance got there, the pilot would be already dead.
Okay, but from my point of view, they're definitely going to be using an underground base to hide all this stuff.
Okay, so the fire engines come from an underground facility?
Is that what you're saying, Carrie?
Absolutely.
Everything.
They would be totally equipped.
There's no doubt.
Okay.
Well, that's something we've never heard from Bob.
But, you know, I suppose we couldn't totally rule it out.
Then they'd have to have another hangar bay that was completely built into the side of some mountain that no one has ever seen.
But you'd see tire tracks, Carrie.
You'd obviously see tire tracks.
Gordon Novell talked about a...
I think it was called the Venture Star that came up out of the ground the entire...
Ground lifted up, and it was seen to fly out of it.
And so on the top of the ground is what you normally would expect in the area where it comes from, which is Utah, which has desert and sagebrush and all that kind of stuff.
So it looks normal, but actually this is how they operate.
Yeah, but Kira, during like auxiliary tests then, the tire tracks from these vehicles would show up on satellite imagery.
They'd show up.
How could they cover that?
Have you heard of stealth technology?
I mean, you know.
Look, this is what they do.
I appreciate the logic.
Continue, please.
Okay.
This is just kind of a cutaway that I did a while ago about the childlike seats, gravity amplifiers, the control councils, the antimatter reactor, and the waveguide.
So the waveguide is something...
Okay, let me just say that I have a person who...
I have people, you know, texting me and all this during this, which is kind of fun.
They're saying holograms.
And that's correct.
I mean, we have evidence of holograms, and this is one of the ways that they can cover what they're doing.
Okay.
Lazar never mentioned anything about dose badges being supplied to the 22 scientists.
If there really is a facility at Papoose Lake, and if it really is hot and radioactive, then everybody should be issued a dose badge.
Lazar never mentioned anything about that.
Go ahead.
Something that really should be considered because you don't want to be having dust come into the hangar base where all the scientists are working.
They'd have to be some kind of monitors if this is true and if it's really there.
Okay, now here's the thing.
Lazar states that once you put the element 115 into the antimatter reactor, you put the half dome cover back on And then you attach the waveguide on.
How is this true, Kerry?
I don't know if you can see this, but this is a replica of the antimatter reactor.
According to Lazar, once you put the element 115 into the antimatter reactor, it's already on, Kerry.
And it's already creating the artificial gravitation field.
How do you put the half-dolled puck back on it?
You can't.
You can't even touch it.
So how do we explain this?
It doesn't make any sense.
Okay, I'm not sure because you're talking about if you're constructing a UFO, how do you get the top back on?
I'm just going by exactly what Lazar said.
He says you take the element 150, you load it into the antimatter reactor, and then you put the half dome cover back on.
But according to Lazar's own words, he said the very second that you put the element 115 into the reactor, it's already operating right now.
How can you touch it?
It's already operating right now.
First of all, what makes you think that our people are doing this work?
This is what Lazar said himself.
He personally says that.
He said that he put the garbage out.
What if I have a robot that does that for me?
What if I have an arm of a robot?
Like an extended arm.
Aren't they using these kinds of tools and type of thing?
Plus, I think that they're doing a lot of anti-gravity work.
They can move things around.
Look at John Hutchinson's work.
He proves that you can actually move...
It moves things from point A to point B without touching them.
Okay, but according to Lazar, his quote-unquote buddy, Barry Castillo, showed him a demonstration on a desktop where the antimatter reactor was there, where Bob Lazar could not touch the dome.
He saw a demonstration of a candlelight And then he bounced the golf ball off it and it knocked out the ceiling tile.
So they were there, according to Lazar.
So it wasn't like this is something that happened far away with a robot.
They were in the same room and this is going on.
So somehow, if this is true, Okay, so that's a technical question, and it appears that he left that up for grabs.
I would love it if I could get Rob Lazar to talk about all of this.
So would I. And again, I'm not attacking Bob Lazar.
No, I know.
It's all cold.
It's all cold.
And I would like to hear his explanation.
I'd like to hear, you know, if he changes it.
Because it's very likely that, again, he was giving you fragments of information.
I suppose that's possible.
Okay, here's another thing, Gary.
When Lazar first saw the sport model, He said that one childlike seat was missing and one of those control councils was missing as well, although he never explained how they were removed.
I mean, would the government ruin their most prized possessions if this is an extraterrestrial craft?
Would they take a plasma cutter or a chainsaw and just roughly chop off the seat in the council, not having known what those effects might be to the craft?
It just doesn't make sense.
Well, why wouldn't they remove the seat?
I mean, that's completely believable.
Well, they've got eight other craftsmen.
Why not do it with those?
Why do it with this one?
Well, why are you assuming they'd only had one?
What do you mean?
You're acting as though they had only one sports model.
Well, Lesnar said there was only one sport model there.
The other eight angles were of eight separate different craft.
Lazar never said he saw two support models there.
He never made that point.
Okay, well, you know, I mean, a lawyer would tell you that just because he didn't say he saw more than one or that there wasn't more than one.
In other words, you can't necessarily, one doesn't necessarily follow from the other.
I say something, but he specifically named and gave names to the other eight cramps, like the top hat, the jello mold.
He gave names to the other eight.
He never said there was another support model in hangar bay number two.
That was a different craft altogether.
Okay.
Again, how did Lazar said that he was somehow able to obtain a piece of element 115?
How did he get it, and where is it now, and how did he let it get out of his hands?
If this is the one piece of physical evidence that could support his claim, where is the element 115?
It's gone.
Well, actually, John Lear has some kind of model like that in his house, in his study, that we showed in our interview with him.
I think it was one of the first interviews with him.
And I'm not sure whether it's actually got the real element there, but he refers to it in our interview.
And we might ask John Lear that question.
I did send him an invitation.
I did send him an email, but he hasn't replied, and so I really have to call him.
Okay.
Logic would tell you that here's the biggest story of all time, and here's the one piece of physical evidence that could buttress his case, and yet he never allowed it to be examined by the scientific community.
That's just so far beyond logic.
Well, not really, not if you have a black project and a guy who's kind of a loose cannon.
Well, I mean, even a sliver, even a sliver sent anonymously to the scientific community would have been enough to start conversations, but that was never done, and he lost it.
It's gone now.
What happened to it?
Well, how do you know he lost it?
He said he no longer has it.
Oh, well, that doesn't mean he lost it.
Okay.
Maybe he gave it to John Lear.
It's possible.
It's possible.
Okay, here's another thing I thought was interesting.
According to Lazar, the interior of the sport model looked as though it was made out of wax and then slightly heated and allowed to melt.
Causing every area that was a corner to be a smooth fillet contoured radius.
That's basically what Lazar said.
The entire interior looked like it was made out of wax, melted, cooled, and everything had this smooth radius.
If that's true, Terry, why does Lazar always show the antimatter reactor with the sharp 90 degree corners?
How's that possible?
This should be all smooth and contoured in to the upper deck and the mid-level escort model.
Not straight performers as Lazar talks about.
Okay, I'm not clear about this.
So I, you know, again, disinfo.
It's possible.
I can tell you that they told Anthony Sanchez if he revealed anything that he had been told about the aspects around the nano satellites that he would be killed.
And I was the one who had to deliver that message to him.
It was delivered to me by an agent.
So what does that mean?
That means that if you give out technical details and you work on black projects or you get access to that information and you reveal it, that not only is it considered to be a breach of national security in the USA, but basically certain people can kill you.
But Kerry already broke national security.
Look how much disinfo he gave you.
Okay.
Look, Kerry, on the first day he was there, according to his own word, he said that he had to sign a 10-10 agreement and he had to get an allergy test.
That was the day one.
He already signed the 10-10 agreement.
$10,000 fine, 10 years in prison.
If his story is true, why isn't he in jail?
Why didn't he have to pay a $10,000 fine for coming forward and revealing the biggest story of all time?
He never went to jail.
But again, he left out all these details and he gave you some wrong directions in that he did what he was supposed to do, probably.
Possible, possible.
Okay, we talked about...
Wait, what was that picture that you just showed just a minute ago?
Which one?
This one?
This one.
Yeah, this talks about the element 115, the antimatter reactor.
We talked about how it got away from him.
How did it get away from him?
We talked about how the reaction takes place the second you drop the element 115 into the reactor.
That means you can't let the dome back down.
It's already operating.
There's no on-off switch.
How do you turn the thing off?
Okay, now the person that he was looking at, this anti-reactor, this element 115, where is he now?
We don't know.
Neither does Bob.
We don't even know if he actually exists.
Okay, so this guy, what was his name?
Okay, here's the funny thing, Carrie.
The information regarding Bob Lazar's quote-unquote buddy known as Barry Castillo was brought out by Lane Tech, a clinical hypnotherapist.
It was brought out under hypnosis.
So are you willing to trust the testimony from hypnosis on the world's biggest story?
Sure.
Barry Castillo?
Yes, Barry Castillo.
No one can find him, Carrie.
Not even Lazar.
Okay, very interesting.
I'm sure he is hard to find.
If he exists.
According to Lazar, you're not allowed to speak to anyone other than your buddy.
If that's true, how did Lazar get the name of the other 22 scientists working on the program?
You can't talk to him.
How do you get the names of the other guys?
I don't know.
Did he publish them?
Nope, he's never published the names of the other people.
He kept that as a way to verify people who were contacting him.
He kept that information private.
So maybe that's his get-out-of-jail-free card.
That's it.
Hello?
Hello?
Come on, I didn't blow the fucking...
Oh, God.
Incredible.
Michael?
Right.
You were hit by lightning again, right?
It's just a riot.
Okay, everyone.
Well, it looks like Michael's...
His picture is still up there, but his audio has disappeared, just like what happened with Courtney Brown the other night.
See, it's interesting.
Google Hangouts has, like...
I just think the military industrial complex really has their hands in Google Hangouts big time.
So they can switch off little parts of it.
Unlike Skype where they just have to knock you off.
Okay.
Okay, now you're back.
What happened?
I don't know.
I can hear a little bit of you.
The last thing you said was F something.
That's the last thing I heard.
- Okay. - All right, so-- - What did I say to you, Michael, before we started?
The last thing I heard was F something.
No, that's not what I mean.
Before we did this whole presentation, didn't I warn you we had to have a backup?
Yes, correct.
And didn't you laugh at me and say, no, it's going to be fine?
No, we have the backup.
We're good.
Yeah.
Okay, go ahead.
Okay, so we'll move on.
Now, This is Bob Lazar's original sketch.
This is not my sketch.
This is Bob Lazar's original sketch.
Now, according to Lazar, the hangar bays at S4 measure 40 feet across.
That's a total of 360 feet.
Yet, the finished sport model from John Andrews measures 52 feet in diameter.
That means Bob Lazarus cannot exceed 36 feet in diameter, allowing 2 feet on either side.
That's a discrepancy, Kerry, of 16 feet.
How could a senior master physicist be off by 16 feet?
It doesn't make sense.
Again, you know, I mean, classified information.
He's going to lie.
Okay, he's going to lie.
Now, here's the other thing.
If he's on hangar bait 1, and all...
The hangar bay connecting four ways are open, Carrie.
The minimum distance to the far wall of that last ninth hangar is 360 feet.
How in the world are you going to see anything 360 feet away?
How are you going to get any details of that last crap in that hangar?
It's too far away.
It's too far away to make out anything.
Okay, I really do want you to read Sands of Time to get a description of the same place.
And I also, I don't want to drive you crazy here or the audience, but as it happens, even before Camelot, I actually remote viewed S4 and I wrote a screenplay about it and I actually visualized the whole place for what it's worth.
Okay, okay.
That's certainly a possibility regarding what might be there.
It's what you call a coincidence or synchronicity.
But go ahead.
Answer this, Kerry.
In order for Lazar to be correct in what he stated, remember when he said that all the Hangar Bay doors were open, the connected doorways were open one time, allowing him to see all the way down?
They would all have to be pulled back from the door for him to see through there.
There's no way.
If those craft were pulled forward, his people would be obstructed at about Hangar Bay 4.
It would have to be the perfect situation to see that far hangar.
Okay, well, you know, I don't know.
You know, there's a lot of different ways in which he could give you that information and not be in the place that he said he was when he gave it to you.
You know, when he described it.
So, I mean, I appreciate that logic.
Again, heavy-duty logic, Michael, and that's fine.
There's nothing wrong with that.
Go ahead.
Okay.
Now, Lazarus states that he originally put his upper torso Through a square doorway in the deck of the mid portion of the sport model, giving him the gravity amplifiers below.
He later said that he crawled onto the lower area.
Now, if that's true, Jerry, how did Bob Bazar, who's a lot taller than me, get through a 16-inch square cutout in the mid portion of the floor of the sport model with curved floor at the bottom?
It'd be very difficult.
Beside the aliens, I'm probably the only one that could hold that off.
Okay.
Again, you know, it appears that what we've got is a lot of misdirection here.
But, you know, some testimony.
I mean, this is hard to...
Al Bazar and John Andrews.
He said that there was a 16-inch square cutout in the floor near the rim of the disc that allows you to go down into the lower area, but it's only 16 inches across.
You can take a tape measure, Perry, and measure out 16 inches.
It's going to be very hard to fit back through there when the floor is curving.
Very difficult.
He never explained how that happened.
Okay.
Okay.
We talked about the discrepancies in the dimensions.
He said it was 40 feet across for the hangar bay, yet the finished product of the Sport model is 52 feet across.
That's a huge discrepancy.
If that logic is true, Lazarus Sport model cannot exceed 36 feet in diameter.
You've got to allow two feet on either side for the hangar bay doors.
Sure.
Okay.
Here's something, Kerry.
If you look at this drawing that I put together, notice the location of the hatch to get into the sport model, Kerry.
It's at the mid-portion of the rim of the disc.
Very crucial.
Extremely crucial.
Now, if this is true, which Bob Bazar said it was, he said that the rim of the disc was over his head.
The entire craft is at least 16 feet to 18 feet high, so we're talking at least 8 feet at that mid-portion.
I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt.
I'm going to say that the rim of the disc was at the 7-foot-mile hatches that these small alien greys are only 3 1⁄2 to 4 feet tall.
That means, by default, the hatches located 2 feet above their heads carried.
How did the aliens get to the craft?
Well, now you want to know what an alien is capable of, and I can tell you that tall whites skim across the ground at a high level, according to Charles Hall.
So what grays are capable, they move through walls.
For God's sake, I'm sure they can get into their craft.
Okay, I mean, if that's true, then there'd be no reason for a hatch, right?
Why would you have a hatch if you can go through walls altogether?
Maybe other beings can't and you want to pick things up.
You know, there's a lot of different means and options for these things.
I mean, the only way that this would work is if they could levitate up into the craft work.
Exactly.
Well, I'm sure that they could, but the point is that they also do go through walls.
It's significant.
Maybe when it's in flight, they can't go through the wall to get to it, you know, like when it's in motion.
But maybe when it's parked, they can.
Okay.
We kind of touched on this.
This is a drawing done by Mark Dickinson, who worked at the Tester's Model Corporation.
Carrie, you can see, directly behind the sport model, that little door there, Carrie.
Notice how the sport model is obstructing that door?
How could Bob Lazar see the other eight craft if the craft are obstructing the doorways?
You can't look beyond there.
It's just not going to happen.
Okay.
I mean, that is a possibility for him to give any details of those far craft if they're all blocked.
You can't see it.
Okay, and that's a good depiction of that, the problem there.
Yeah, it shows you.
I mean, the only way that Lazar's theory could be true is if those disks were pulled all the way beyond that doorway.
And they might hit the hangar door, so there's definitely a distinction there.
Here's the other thing, too.
How did Bob Lazar You get a top secret queue clearance in only eight days.
It takes between six months and a year to get a queue clearance.
According to who?
According to Edgar Foucher.
Okay, well, look, I mean, I can tell you that they're waiving rules and regulations constantly.
Mark Richards, Captain Mark Richards of the Secret Space Program that I've interviewed now, Three times and experienced this attack on my face on the fourth time that I was supposed to meet with him when I was on the way there.
So it indicates to me that they're trying to hide something and that the man is actually telling the truth, which I already know.
But...
The point I'm trying to make here is that he was a renegade.
He was part of the secret space program.
He was never following rules.
They're going to waive every rule and regulation when they want somebody in that program.
This is not the military.
This is not the military, okay?
This is not the conventional military.
These people have to be trained to think outside the box.
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
But generally, acute clearance, it could take up to a year to get it, but yet Lazar got it, boom, top secret acute clearance.
Well, that might explain why I also attended MIT in a way that is unconventional.
I mean, look, they're bending rules, they're doing all kinds of things with getting people to point A to point B, et cetera, et cetera.
To think that you're going to go by conventional reality and explain the secret space program is not really logical in itself.
Now, Kiri, according to Lazar, he had a top-secret Q security clearance that was 38 levels above a Q clearance.
However, according to multiple people who are familiar with the higher archive of security clearance, It doesn't work that way, Gary.
There is no 38 levels above top secret.
It goes unclassified top secret, and then you go SCI or SAP. It doesn't go 38 levels above top secret.
That's generally how this is.
I mean, it sounds very likely that that would be something that he would say just for the hell of it.
But aside from that, again, I would still say that he can basically say whatever he wants, and it may be partially true.
When I interviewed Noren Berggrim, for example, who was like 85 when I interviewed him, and then he's actually disappeared off the face of the earth and been brought back in to work on black projects since I interviewed him.
And the fact is, he was telling me what he was allowed to do and what he wasn't allowed to do, how he was kept in this underground base.
You know, they really do whatever they want to do.
Okay.
This is something that Lazar has never addressed.
He was given the opportunity in January of 1990.
This comes from Jim Ragdale, who worked for Lockheed in Burbank under Kelly Johnson and Ben Rich.
Bob was out in a personal invitation by the Aero Club of Southern California to speak to a group of his peers, aerospace engineers, aeronautical engineers, physicists, scientists, test pilots, the kind of people he was speaking to.
Not ufologists.
People of his caliber.
Yet he declined the opportunity.
Why would that be, Kerry?
Here's a group that could possibly support him in his claims, and he never took him up on the opportunity.
Well, why does Dr.
Anderson withdraw from one of my conferences and call me ahead of time and tell me that he's afraid to fly into L.A. because he is worried about being attacked by the program?
You know, the bottom line is that they're not allowed to do this kind of thing.
They're not allowed to speak in public and certainly wouldn't be allowed to out something to To a group of their peers.
That's the whole idea is to keep him away and isolated.
You will get people like John Lear who very likely, his father was part of MJ-12.
There's evidence as far as I'm concerned that John himself is part of MJ-12.
Yes, Bob can go and talk to John and together they can concoct all kinds of stuff.
And tell us.
But we don't know.
It's very hard to trace the truth.
I agree that this logically sounds like a wonderful opportunity for Bob.
But actually, if you're part of a black project, this is the last thing you want to do.
But in the early 90s, Bob Lazar went to the Little Alien Inn and gave a huge lecture there.
So he spoke there, but that was just to a bunch of UFO people.
Yeah, because plausible deniability.
Have you ever heard of it?
Yes, I have.
Okay.
Okay.
All right, so Carrie, I thought a lot about this.
According to his own words, He was at S4 for a total of six days.
Okay, that's beyond question.
This is his own claim.
The first day he was there, he took it at an allergy test and signed 10-10 agreement.
So that's one day.
The next two days, according to the czar, he spent reading the blue folders that contained information on the greys and the religious implications.
Then he also stated that there were two days that he couldn't remember anything.
The only thing he could remember was getting on the Janet flight at McCarran and then coming back home and getting off the flight back going home.
So that's five days.
So really his whole story, the biggest story of all time, hinges on only one day of practical application at S4 working on the sport model.
The whole story hinges on one day.
Okay, I think he was there for a much longer period of time, but I'd have to get John Lear to attest to what that was.
Carrie, even John Lear will agree that Bob Lazar was only there for six days.
That's it.
I have him on tape.
He was there for six days.
That's it.
My understanding is that Bob Lazar went to work for Los Alamos.
That's not S4. Maybe not, but nonetheless.
In other words, so, you know, S4, maybe he went to Area 51 and worked there instead.
I mean, you know, we're splitting hairs here.
Again, he's going to lie.
So that's got to go with the territory.
Now, what he did want to tell as truth...
And the pieces of truth and what's disinfo?
At this late date, it would be interesting to revisit the story with Bob Lazar and with John Lear and see where they were telling the truth and where they were fudging.
But it's very likely that we still won't get straight answers.
Unfortunately, because they're hiding all of this to this day.
But why would John Lear be hiding?
Sorry?
Sorry?
Why would John Lear be hiding behind him?
Because I just told you he might be part of MJ-12.
Oh, okay.
I mean, the heat's on Bob Lazar.
It's not on John Lear.
It's on Bob Lazar.
He's been making the claims.
Yeah, well, okay.
I'm not going to get into the relationship between those guys and who reports to who, et cetera, et cetera.
Okay.
Okay.
Here is Jerry Friedman.
George Knapp discussed him.
He walked all the way across Papoose Lake.
He was unchallenged.
He was not stopped by security.
If this is a top secret, ultra-top secret facility, why security guards?
There's no way he could walk.
Uh-huh.
And what year did he do that?
This was in 93.
Okay.
George Knapp confirmed.
And what year was Lazar claiming to be there?
88 and 89.
So we're talking about, what, you know, four or five years?
Correct.
Not only that, but what does it say?
That he died of cancer two years after he...
That's correct.
So he did die of cancer...
That's from George Knapp as well.
Okay.
But that sounds like he was eliminated for a reason, right?
You didn't think he died of natural causes, did you?
Why not just stop him when he got to Papoose Lake Restricted Area?
How could he walk all the way across?
Because if they stopped him, maybe he would be able to report more information.
Look, I don't know.
I can give you some plausible reasons why they do what they do, but You know, who they stop, why they stop somebody, why they let somebody else go, you know?
Who knows?
Okay.
They're always doing experiments.
Tavistock, Rand Institute, this is the name of the game.
Go ahead.
Greenpeace also did a demonstration at Patrice Lake, and they were allowed to do their demonstration at Patrice Lake.
Why weren't they stopping us?
Okay, what year did they do it?
They were there in 93.
All right.
So apparently they were letting people in at that time, weren't they?
Well, I mean...
Maybe Bob Lazar was lying about Papoose Lake being the location of the base.
That's a possibility.
If I were there, I'd probably tell you it was located, you know, five miles the other way.
Okay.
I mean, it makes sense, doesn't it?
If you're working out...
Can't rule it up.
So here, Carrie, here's the satellite imagery of the Papoose area.
And according to Lazar, we've got the location of where the hangar bays are located.
And Carrie...
There's nothing to carry.
You can look at the satellite imagery from 80s...
Okay, but if there's a hologram there, you're not going to see it.
If there's a hologram there?
Yeah.
Okay.
Well, I can only go by the satellite imagery, and even the conspiratorial community within the UFO group that want this to be true, they're begging to see something here.
Even they have to admit that the pixels are completely consistent with an actual photo.
There's no tampering whatsoever of any of these photos.
They're the real raw images.
There's nothing there, Kerry.
Where's the road going up to the S4 facility?
There's nothing there.
Where's the road that scientists there?
There's nothing there.
I can't explain it, but other than saying that it's very likely, if there really is a base, that it is hidden by a hologram.
Yeah, but you'd still have a road going up there so the scientists could get off the bus and go into the hangar.
Where's the road?
Why are you assuming that they have to have a road and a bus?
They could go by Maglev train.
I mean, nowadays they go by Maglev train from Vegas.
I'm not the one saying it, Carrie.
It's Bob who said he went on a bus with Dennis Mariani, who was his boss, and he took the bus, a blue-colored bus, to the hospital facility.
He's the one who said it, not me.
When is this, you know, when is this picture of, in other words, what was going on when he was there?
Were they taking, you know, was the evidence out there at the time?
There was a blue bus that went between McLaren Airport, I think it was, and certainly Area 51.
And S4 is not that far, so maybe there was, you know, he's basically using that example.
But how they really get to the base, do you think he's going to tell you?
Well, I'm just going to read what he said, Kerry, and he said that his boss, Dennis Mariani, was also on the bus as well.
He's the one who said it.
Okay.
Yeah, absolutely.
Okay.
Now, I'm going to read this word for word so that people don't think I'm making this up.
You're fading in and out.
Your audio is fading in and out.
I don't know if that means you're moving away from the mic a lot or what, so just FYI. Okay, I'm right here.
So, this is from Bob Lazar's own words.
It says, in a 1990 documentary titled Greenland, Lazar made the following statement.
Quote, on the first occasion I drove out there, all the hangar doors were closed, but at close range you could tell that they were doors and they would open.
We drove around the left side of the installation, and there was the main entrance in there, and we went through some gates and a security checkpoint inside, and it seemed like a typical government building.
Now, Lazar said that you had to enter the gate or you entered the S4 facility.
Jerry, there is no evidence of any security gate outside S4. There's nothing there.
There's nothing there.
Fair enough.
You know, I mean, that's a big point right there.
He says there's a security gate.
There's nothing there on any platforms.
Nothing at all.
I get it.
Okay.
Again, this is the restricted area here.
We kind of already talked about that.
Now, personally, Kerry, I trust the word of well-documented, qualified people.
U.S. Air Force military pilots over the word of Bob Lazar.
Now, I've got statements from Colonel Barry McKean and Colonel Don Emmons.
SR-71 pilots that flew over Area 51, Papoose Lake, everything, for decades.
Their assessment is there is absolutely no facility at Papoose Lake.
There's no buildings there.
It's a myth.
That's their statement, Kerry, right from the SR-71 pilots.
You know what?
That might be true.
It may be a myth, and Bob Lazar may be putting that out there on purpose, but they may also be doing a damn good job of hiding it.
Hiding it where, though?
Take, again, you've heard of stealth, you've heard of, you know, holograms.
The tall whites have been living in that area, and nobody detects them for ages.
They're doing a damn good job as well.
Okay, but we're still doing about...
What we're really talking about is conventional reality and the party line and what people believe is conventional reality versus the secret space program and what they have, the kind of technology they have access to.
There really is a secret space program and they really do have advanced technology, which I have whistleblowers that say is at least 10,000 years in advance of us.
Or there isn't.
So I think you have to really come to terms with whether or not you can acknowledge that there is a secret space program.
And the next step is to determine how many years in advance of our technology are there.
And then a lot of these questions will probably go away because they don't make sense if you're trying to talk about a completely different paradigm.
And on top of it, you're talking about disinfo and you're talking about individuals who are telling lies, couched in truth or vice versa, in order to basically get away with their lives and also put information out there to awaken the public.
And, you know, in dribs and drabs.
So this is what we're dealing with.
We're dealing with this, not just in this situation, but in all situations and all the information coming out in the UFO, so-called UFO community.
And it goes on every single day.
And this is the kind of testimony I get constantly from whistleblowers and from people that are attempting to find out the truth.
Layers of the onion.
Right.
Kerry, I'm not disagreeing with you regarding technology being way in advance.
I've already got Ben Rich's statement that you know, plus Jim Goodall as well, so I'm not minimizing that.
I'm just going by Bob Lazar's thing alone.
That's all.
I hear you.
No, it's good.
I mean, it's great.
They call him out on it.
It's absolutely cool.
When Bob Lazar filed for Chapter 7 bankruptcy, he never included his employment at Los Alamos in the IRS paperwork.
Why didn't he put that on there?
Why didn't he put it on there?
Why didn't he put on that he was employed at Los Alamos when he declared bankruptcy?
You have to, by law, put down where you work.
That's like saying, why didn't Mark Richards use the point that he was actually off the planet when he was supposed to be committing a murder that they framed him on?
You've got to answer those questions, absolutely.
Okay.
I'm not going to get into too many details on the Honeysuckle Ranch other than to say that, again, you're hiring someone Who's working at the Honeysuckle Ranch or is associated with this ranch on the most important, top-secret program of all history.
Would that have even gotten by the security checks?
That's the thing.
No, I'm sure they're aware of it.
But would he be hired?
Because of it.
In other words, they've got to renegade.
Look, I can tell you that we were at a conference in, I think it was either Laughlin or Vegas, and a guy came to us who was working at, he claimed to be working at Area 51.
The conferences ended, we were all together hanging out in a room, and this guy just walked in, and he was an interesting guy, and he basically said that he told us that he was working at Area 51, that they rolled cocaine in on tables, that they gave him all this stuff, and that we wouldn't believe what they were given in order to keep them sort of on the line and on the hook.
Okay.
So, if you were representing Bob Lazar, what evidence would you bring personally to prove his case?
I think I've already alluded to these things.
Mainly, you know, most of our testimony about Bob Lazar comes from John Lear.
I can tell you that.
Okay.
But that wouldn't be enough to prove his case in a court of law, though.
Well, since courts of law are part of what is called surface Earth, and the underground bases and off-planet bases, etc., etc., are part of the secret space program, our courts of law don't really apply to what goes on there.
And they're always acting outside the law.
In fact, they're acting outside the law even...
I mean, at the very least...
I was just going to say, at the very least, you would need his degrees, you'd need his pay stubs, you'd need any kind of photographic evidence, and you'd need supporting witnesses.
He doesn't have any of those.
He doesn't have even one of the 22 scientists.
He has nothing to stand on.
Absolutely, and that's the way they want it.
Well, I mean, there's just not enough there, Kerry, to prove it in a court of law.
It never makes sense.
Alright, fair enough.
So those are basically some of the points I wanted to consider.
It's not an attack on Bob Lazar, it's strictly an examination of his claims.
That's all this is.
Okay, now I think we might have some questions.
Did you have some more things you wanted to talk about?
Well, here's the other thing.
Sure, sure, why not?
If Lazar is speaking the truth, and if you...
Top secret clearance that's 38 levels above top secret.
He's cleared to work at S4. He's cleared to see the outside of a hangar base.
Then why is he riding a bus with blacked out windows if he's cleared to see everything there?
Actually, those buses, as far as I know, are more so people don't see them rather than them seeing you.
You know, whatever.
Again, you know, I've made my point.
I think that your points are good in terms of logic, you know, absolutely.
Yeah.
I mean, I invite Lear and Lazar to come on or to respond.
I absolutely invite it.
That's fine with me.
I want to have an energy, encouragement, and I just would like to get some kind of feedback, good or bad.
The point of the paper was to be unbiased.
Okay.
Are you there?
Yep, I'm still here.
You're fading in and out a lot.
Hello?
I'm still here, Perry.
Okay, very good.
So one person that is...
I believe that we will have some questions, but if anyone who is helping me on Skype can find the questions from the audience that might be on my Google page, I'm looking for them now, but otherwise I'm going to ask you a couple that came in the Skype.
But if you can paste them into the Skype, that'd be great.
Okay.
And if not, then we're probably going to have to go without asking most of the questions because I can't find them.
And I don't have any real technical assistance tonight.
Let's see.
One person wants to know that they said you did a presentation on Dan Veerish and they wonder if you changed your mind on that.
That's a very good question.
I presented the case as it was presented to me By Dan Burrish personally.
That's what I presented.
There was no physical evidence to back up that case as well in the form of photographs, in the form of physical evidence.
So as of right now, I don't think I can support that either.
Okay.
All right.
Fair enough.
Okay, I'm still looking for these questions, so bear with me here.
That's okay.
I'm going to just try one more angle to try to locate the questions.
And again, if anyone's listening and can help, that would be awesome.
So you presented this paper to...
Didn't you present this to MUFON recently?
I did, yes.
And how did they take it?
It was a small group, and I think it was received low, and I don't think it went any further than that.
Okay.
And what are you doing lately as far as, you know, Your research because you did this paper a while ago and I know you're always doing amazing work and actually you and I had a meeting in which we were pretty sure we had some nice agents sitting right next to us observing us and so on.
We never got to do a show on what you covered at that meeting.
Do you still want to do a show on that sometime?
I suppose we could do it, Kerry.
Absolutely.
Still building scale models.
I don't know if you can see this, but this was...
Okay, we're not...
We still see the final word slide.
Yeah.
Okay.
So I think you have to take that down and then put something else up.
Okay, so is it possible to unshare the screen or no?
Yeah, I mean, you should have stopped it.
There should be a green thing across the top that allows you to stop sharing.
Let's see...
Anyway...
Or just start sharing again and see how that goes.
Well, I think it'll just go back to that, right?
You are screen sharing.
Stop.
Okay, I've stopped sharing the screen now.
Okay.
So first, you need to put whatever it is you're going to share on your screen.
Like, they give you, like they say, share your screen.
Right.
I mean, I just want to...
Kind of hold up these scale models here that I showed you at our...
Oh, you mean to show yourself like on video?
Yeah, right.
Okay, well, I'm not sure why you're not on video.
Ah, there you go.
Yeah, there you are.
The models that we discussed at our meeting...
This is seen by a group coming out of a Fleetwood Mac concert.
This came out of a misty cloud, hovered over this gentleman's car, and he saw a superstructure on the bottom section here with what looked like human pilots looking back at them.
It's about 200 feet per side.
And we've got the whole description from David Marler, who is the world's foremost leader on triangular UFOs.
Okay.
Also, I guess, isn't it Ed Fruchet who says that the triangular UFOs are ours?
That is correct.
That is correct.
Okay.
I'm not sure why he's so attached to the fact that they're only ours.
Well, he had a personal encounter with Area 51 in 1979, so he has a personal involvement in this type of field.
I also have these, Carrie, I'll make them available to the general public as a free PDF download.
This is the 2001, March 5th, 2000.
We're at least eight separate counties.
Six different police officers saw a triangular-shaped craft.
One gentleman, Mel Knoll, saw this single-story ranch with a penthouse.
He saw the whole thing.
This is something that you can build, too.
In 1999, Colin Saunders saw this craft.
This is overseas.
A very interesting flight profile on this particular craft that had raised on the upper portion of the craft.
This is something that you can use the blueprints for as well.
March 13, 1997, the Phoenix Lights craft, which happened on a Thursday, the same date that top secret aircraft are generally tested, at least 1,500 feet across.
And then the losing competitor, The Have Blue Lockheed Skunk Works product was something called Northrop XST. That's the losing competitor to Lockheed's product.
This is something that people can build as well.
Okay, you mean as a model?
Correct.
Okay, I did find the chat on Google, so I'm going to see if we've got some questions.
It looks like they might have some questions in here.
So let me see if I can...
Someone wants to know where you see humanity in the future.
Good question.
If the black world continues on its course, We're just going to be spending additional billions of dollars on weapons programs.
That's kind of where I see it going.
However, if we can abide by President Eisenhower's thesis of being aware of the military industrial complex and keeping them in check, maybe we fund them for the improvement of all mankind.
Okay.
Your audio, for some reason, is fading in and out again.
Do you have an unstable internet connection, or are we just being subjected to the secret space program, having an issue with some of the things you're saying?
No, the connection is holding up.
Your connection is normally decent, huh?
Yep.
Holding up.
Okay, someone else wants to know why you didn't talk to Bob Lazar before alleging publicly that he's making things up.
Did you try to talk to him?
I talked to him years ago on the phone.
I met him personally with John Lear.
I actually did send him an email with an article about Edward Teller.
I never got a response.
He doesn't want to talk of it.
He's out of it.
And that's just his prerogative.
He's out of it.
Well, I invited him for an interview, too.
And actually, I did get an answer on LinkedIn.
I believe he said that he doesn't want to do interviews anymore.
That's okay.
Well, it's okay, except that I think it defeats the purpose.
I think it would be a lot of fun if he would do interviews.
But they probably have to give him, like, a clearance to allow him to do it, so...
He's made his case for 25 years now.
I don't know what else he could add in this.
He still brings back.
Alright, hold on.
I'm looking for some more questions.
What is element 115?
Someone wants to know.
Element 115 is the alleged fuel for the anti-meta reactor, according to Bob Lazar.
He's not 100% sure what the origin of it is, but according to him, they have 500 pounds of fuel at Los Alamos in the triangles, according to Bob Lazar.
Okay.
Let's see.
Okay.
I can't see any other questions.
I see chat going on, but if you do have a question, could you put it in all caps?
Otherwise, we're going to let Michael go for the evening and thank him very much for his fascinating presentation.
But if you would like to ask a last-minute question, if you can type in all caps...
Thank you.
He doesn't know the status of Dan Beerish.
I do, however, for what it's worth.
Do you, Michael?
I do not.
Okay.
I do not.
The last I heard from Dan Beerish is he took over for Mike McConnell as head of MJ-12.
Okay.
Well, then let's roll.
So that's what I heard.
Anyway, let's see, what else?
I guess there's no new...
Someone wants to know, how did he know about Element 115 before everyone else?
Well, he was part of the Secret Space Program, so that's where he found out about it.
Michael, you got a comment?
You could also say that element 116 would be synthesized before it was, and then years later it actually is.
They've synthesized it now.
You could just say element 117 really exists when it doesn't, then years later we can synthesize it.
That's exactly what happened.
Somebody else is saying, I heard only aliens can make element 115.
I don't think you make an element.
I think the element just exists.
Well, you can synthesize it.
The only question is, what's the half-life of it?
How long does it last?
Fill it or make it useful in some way?
You have to make it useful, right.
Uh-huh.
So, somebody here is saying CERN is making element 115.
They're not making it.
They may be synthesizing it.
Let's try to be correct.
I can't answer that.
I appreciate that.
Okay.
Well, let me see if there's any other questions.
I invite feedback from the PDF file, Carrie.
Anyone who wants to download the report for free, please do so.
I invite all feedback.
Okay, did you want to give your email address or anything like that?
It's in the PDF file.
Okay, so that's on my website at the front page and you can find the link to get the PDF. All right.
Well, thank you so much, Michael.
It's been fascinating as always, and thank you for being a good sport, and I appreciate all the information.
I appreciate your line of logic.
I do, however, have a different point of view on all of this, partly because I deal with over nine years with whistleblowers.
And who come from all kinds of walks of life and all kinds of craziness.
So it does widen the perspective, I guess you might say.
But anyway, you've talked to some wonderful aerospace engineers, and I can say that Michael is a stellar researcher that we were followed and we were heavily observed when Michael and I tried to meet last.
Which was several months ago right before I went to or tried to go interview Richard, Mark Richards, back in April, I guess that was.
So why would those agents be hanging around if Michael didn't have something good to say?
Who knows?
Right?
And why would they be interrupting this broadcast even with lightning, huh?
Pretty good.
All right, so Michael...
Carrie, if they can direct thunder and lightning, then you must be very important.
One of us is anyway.
All right, look, have a great night.
And everyone who's listening, I'm sure you're equally important.
Otherwise, they wouldn't try to keep the truth from you.
So keep that in mind.
And they just go home and run their own business, wouldn't they?
But they care about you and they want to know what you're thinking.
And you're the most fascinating thing on the planet.
So keep that in mind as well.
I'm doing a seminar tomorrow, by the way.
So if you want to hear me.
Go on about everything under the sun, including kundalini activation.
Then stay tuned and tune in to a...
Go to the events.
I guess, you know, go to events on my webpage.
Click there and you'll find the seminar I'm giving tomorrow, Saturday.
I think it's a two-hour seminar online and you can register.
So we're doing that for Portal for Ascension.
So that should be interesting.
Thank you again, Michael, for being on the show.
And why don't we have you back and we'll talk about those things that we were talking about several months ago.
Great.
Thanks, Karen.
Sounds good.
All right.
Take care.
Good night, everyone.
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