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April 24, 2015 - Project Camelot

01:50:41

PROJECT CAMELOT: ROBERT SULLIVAN : 32ND DEGREE MASON

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	Thank you.
	This is a little unconventional because the website, as I say, is under attack.
	Okay, thank you very much for letting me know about the sound.
	It looks like we're okay.
	And Robert is not going to be on a phone line.
	It may be because I posted an article pointing to the A-list celebrities that may be leaving the U.S. There's no guarantee about that.
	We do have information.
	Alex Jones, I guess it's Paul Joseph Watson, I think is his name, if I've got it right, posted an article about that with regard to James Cameron.
	And then there is a source of mine who also I don't know if that's why this site is down all day or if it's because we're about to interview Robert Sullivan tonight,
	or if it's because we are going to interview Sophia Stewart, the real author of the Matrix and Terminator movies, tomorrow night.
	So we have an interesting lineup this week, as you can see, and I hope you'll be So, Robert, welcome.
	Are you still there?
	Yes, hello, Carrie.
	I can hear you loud and clear.
	Thank you for having me on Project Hamelot.
	It's a pleasure to be here.
	Yeah, you're coming in loud and clear on my end.
	Okay, great.
	I didn't know you were quite so controversial so maybe you can illuminate me, so to speak, about whether or not you think the website would be taken down because I'm going to interview you or whether or not you think that perhaps that's not the reason.
	Now, because I don't have my website and my information in front of me here I'm going to ask you to introduce yourself and I apologize for that, that I can't even really give you much of a background.
	I am showing your website so that is kind of useful for the viewer and I'm going to go to about the author so people can see a picture of you and put that on the screen.
	And it says here that you're a philosopher, historian, antiquarian, jurist, theologian, writer, and lawyer.
	So apparently you're quite an educated man.
	Do you want to give yourself a background?
	Yeah, sure, Terry.
	That's not a problem.
	Again, thank you for having me on your show.
	My name is Robert W. Sullivan IV, and I am the author of two books, One is titled The Royal Arch of Enoch, The Impact of Masonic Ritual Philosophy and Symbolism.
	This book came out in 2012.
	The other book is more recent.
	The other book came out about six to eight months ago.
	That is titled Cinema Symbolism, A Guide to Esoteric Imagery in Popular Movies.
	The first book, I should just point out that You know, you go to my website and read about the author.
	I'm in Baltimore, Maryland.
	I should point out to the listeners that I'm a Freemason.
	I joined a Masonic lodge here in Baltimore, Maryland in 1997.
	This was a Blue Lodge called Amicable St.
	John's Lodge No.
	25.
	I'm also a 32nd degree in the Scottish Rite of Freemasonry.
	This is the Valley of Baltimore, Orient of Maryland.
	I am a college graduate, having graduated Gettysburg College in 1995.
	I spent my junior year abroad at Oxford University studying European History and Philosophy.
	And it was really over there that I became interested in what I would call the Hermetic tradition, the esoteric, the occult, and how all this was influencing material culture.
	And I'm also a lawyer.
	I graduated law school.
	That was Widener University in Delaware.
	That was in 2000 that I graduated that.
	And the Royal Archivinath, my first book, was really the product of 20 years of research and writing that began, like I said, when I was an associate student at Oxford.
	This would have been back in 1992-93.
	I won't belabor this.
	The Royal Archivinath book It does have some controversial aspects to it.
	It is funny because, and I don't know if it's a coincidence or not, but of late I have done shows, and as I get into sort of the Enochian concept, some of the teams within Freemasonry, the lines have dropped, or the calls have dropped, or it just has been blacked out, or I've been talking and I've been disconnected and not realized it.
	So, you know, I don't know if that's a coincidence or not, but the Royal Archive Enoch And any time you want to jump in here, Carrie, please feel free and interrupt me if you've got any questions.
	Sure, don't worry.
	I'm not shy about that kind of thing.
	But I do want to hear about your book, and I'm going to put that on the screen here for people to see the Royal Arch of Enoch, or Ark of Enoch.
	Go ahead.
	Right.
	The Royal Arch of Enoch, the main thesis of that book was that within Freemasonry, You have the Blue Lodge system coming on the map officially in 1717.
	The high degree system doesn't come a little later.
	That comes out of France, out of Paris, France in the 1740s, 1750s.
	And what I was discovering was this one particular degree, which is critical within Freemasonry, titled the Royal Arch of Enoch.
	It's actually an arch.
	It is an archway.
	Yeah, it is incorporating this particular ritual, which documents what is called the recovery of the lost word of a master mason.
	This is what is lost in the Blue Lodge.
	It's recovered in this higher degree ceremonial.
	And I'm really plowing over a ton of information here.
	You can ask me specific questions.
	But in a nutshell, this ritual was incorporating elements of the lost book of Enoch, or one Enoch.
	Which, according to mainstream history, was off the history pages of a loss to Western civilization from around the 2nd, 3rd century AD up until 1773, when a man named James Bruce returned from Ethiopia with copies, and even then it wasn't translated into 1821.
	So the main thesis was that there must be this lost copy out there that someone had, that this Masonic ritual and its underlying philosophy is clearly incorporating Elements and components of the Book of Enoch.
	And this is really important within Freemasonry because the degree is very important.
	And again, just being very general here, it's a lot of the symbolism and the philosophy that is really being incorporated in things like the cultivation and the development of the United States, symbolisms in the Federal District in Baltimore and New York, the Erie Canal, that is really coming out of this Royal Arch degree.
	And just to bring it up to speed, the final chapter of this book dealt with what I would call Masonic Enochian solar symbolisms that I was seeing in popular movies, such as National Treasure, Being There, Da Vinci Code, much more than was on the surface, very adroitly hidden themes and symbols.
	And this very impressed me, and I became fascinated with this subject matter.
	And when Royal Arts came out, I really continued on Really, cinema symbolism is kind of an extension of this last chapter of Royal Arch of Enoch, where I got into mythological, alchemical, numerological, astrological.
	We get into concepts of Carl Gustav Jung and the Collective Unconscious, and just a lot of these very mystical and occult themes that are turning up in movies all over the place, but in some instances they are very well hidden by the directors and the producers.
	And a lot of religion, astrology, archetypical imagery from the tarot cards, a tarot embodiment.
	And this was really, my second book, Cinema Symbolism, was really an extension of this final chapter of Royal Archive Enoch.
	So Royal Archive Enoch came out in 2012, and Cinema Symbolism came out about six, eight months ago.
	And, you know, those are my two books, and, you know, I'll be more than happy to, yeah, yeah, go ahead.
	Oh, no problem.
	So, can you tell us why you got into all of this, and also, what, do you have a degree with, you know, what degree are you within Freemasonry?
	Sure.
	I really sort of got involved with this when I was at Oxford University in 1992-93.
	It was really over there that I got introduced to this idea of this Hermetic tradition.
	It's really the best way I can describe it.
	Things coming out of the Renaissance into the Enlightenment, carried forward by secret societies.
	Just mysticism, the occult, Kabbalah.
	And just how they were influencing society on a material level, on a political level, on a social level, on a religious level, a spiritual level.
	And again, when I was over there, I mean, I was only a junior in college, but it just always interested me.
	I mean, even as a child, I always used to watch the old In Search Of show with Leonard Nimoy.
	And it was just a subject that just really interested me.
	I came back to the States and I graduated Gettysburg.
	And it was in between when I was out of Gettysburg, but before I went to law school, I was broached about joining the Masonic Lodge.
	I wasn't broached.
	I broached someone who was in the Lodge.
	You may have heard the term to be one, ask one.
	In my family, my great-grandfathers, my grandfathers, there's a long tradition in my family of the men joining Freemasonry.
	It was always something I was interested in.
	And the opportunity presented itself in 1996.
	And it was through a friend of my mother and father.
	And I said, you know, I see your Mason.
	He wore the ring, you know, the square and compasses on it.
	And I said, I'm very interested in joining.
	He said, no problem.
	We'll start the ball rolling.
	And I joined a Blue Lodge of Freemasons.
	This is degrees one, two, and three.
	This is Entered Apprentice, Fellow Craft, and Master Mason.
	That was done in 1997.
	And then a lot of my relatives had gone into the Scottish Rite.
	There are two high degree systems in the United States, the York Rite and the Scottish Rite.
	They are not mutually exclusive.
	You can join one, you can join both, you can join neither.
	It is entirely up to you.
	And in 1999, I joined the Scottish Rite Temple here in Baltimore, and I'm a 32nd degree of that.
	Okay, so as a 32nd degree, do you feel that you're being excluded from some of the more secret knowledge, as they call it?
	No, not really.
	I've never encountered that.
	I've never felt that way.
	I think that a lot of the, within the Scottish Rite, the 33rd degree is honorary, so that's by invitation only.
	You can't solicit that.
	A lot of the esoteric wisdom, I believe, is contained within a lot of these degrees, and especially the Royal Arch degree.
	That really is sort of, it's the 13th degree in the Scottish Rite.
	That really is the end of the story of Freemasonry.
	That's really sort of the highest degree in Freemasonry, a lot of the degrees in the Scottish Rite.
	I know they're numerologically higher, but they actually take place before the 13th degree.
	So, no, I would say I've never felt like, you know, that I was excluded or anything.
	I'm not a 33rd degree.
	I never claimed to be.
	But I think there's a lot in those degrees that, I mean, I wrote the Royal Arch of Enoch book, It's nearly 700 pages, and that's just really about one degree in particular.
	So, you know, there's a lot of wisdom, a lot of wisdom hidden in those degrees, both in the Blue Lodge and the high-degree system.
	Okay, and you know that, obviously, the Masons have somewhat of a bad name at this time, simply because of the Illuminati.
	What's your feeling about all of that?
	Yeah, I mean, masonry does have, you know, I'm familiar with this.
	It can get a bad rap.
	I understand that.
	The Illuminati certainly was a real development.
	I am not convinced that it is around anymore.
	I would be highly skeptical, me personally, of any person or group identifying themselves as the Illuminati.
	I have never encountered any such group in my time with Freemasonry You know, obviously, masonry, you know, there was a massive, in the 1820s, a massive anti-Masonic movement in this country.
	And you could crack an argument that masonry has never fully recovered because of this.
	That is, you know, very, you know, I wouldn't argue with that point too much.
	I do think masonry is making a bit of a comeback.
	And I think that reason for that is, is the younger generation that is joining it It's definitely more interested in sort of the esoteric symbolism and the mystical teachings of it.
	And this has been something that has been excluded, really, from craft masonry since this anti-Masonic movement of the 1820s.
	Masonry underwent a massive attack in the United States in the 1820s through something called the William Morgan Affair.
	And in order to survive this anti-Masonic furor, Masonry distanced itself from what you would call sort of the esoteric and mystical tradition, and it just emerged as, hey, we're just a fraternity, we just do philanthropic work, that's it, nothing more to the story.
	And this was really the philosophy that really carried Masonry forward through the 19th century and through most of the 20th century.
	I mean, even when I joined it in 1997, I mean, there was really no You know, discussion at all of any sort of mystical symbolism or anything like that.
	But the younger crowd coming in, you know, they're much more interested in this material.
	And again, likely because of the proliferation of the Internet and Dan Brown and National Treasure and things like that.
	So there does seem to be a renewed interest in masonry, which I think is a good thing.
	And it seems to be for this esoteric wisdom.
	And I think that's also a good thing.
	But you're right, masonry has its detractors.
	It's had it since day one, and I'm sure 100 years from now, they'll still be around.
	Okay.
	Well, do you sort of acknowledge or are you aware of Skull and Bones and organizations such as that?
	Oh, of course.
	Yes, Skull and Bones, I get into in the book.
	And, of course, you have globalist groups, certainly like Bilderberg and...
	I'm completely aware of that.
	Again, you could craft an argument, I suppose, that with Skull and Bones you could see some Illuminati influence upon that.
	You will certainly see Illuminati influences on the development of this country.
	That's very well documentable.
	Just as an organization, though, I am not convinced that the Bavarian Illuminati of 1776, they seem to have gone into extinction many moons ago.
	Are you aware of the P2 Lodge?
	Yes, I am.
	I am aware of that.
	And again, this is a Lodge of Blue Lodge Masons in Italy, which had ties to the Vatican.
	Again, I am not certain of any sort of, you know, I mean, I guess you could create an argument that the, you know, this has some sort of, you know, sinister meaning with Freemasonry.
	I mean, I don't deny that Masonry has certainly influenced many of things, especially in this country.
	But again, you know, I would say I don't know if this is the Illuminati of 1776.
	Okay.
	Well, are you aware of our interview?
	I mean, I don't know if you know Project Camelot, but for example, have you seen my interview with Leo Zagami?
	No, I haven't.
	I have not seen that.
	Are you aware of him?
	No, I'm not.
	Okay.
	Well, the P2 Lodge has a headquarters, from what I understand, in south of France.
	It may be just one of the headquarters, but maybe you're not aware of that.
	No, this is a little beyond my bailiwick of expertise.
	I've heard of the P2 Lodge, but I'm familiar with its ties to the Vatican, and of course there was a big scandal over this, and allegedly a person was hanged in London, a banker, because of this.
	But this is really somewhat beyond my area of expertise.
	Okay, well, I mean, certainly it is interesting, and I don't mean to put you on the spot too seriously here, and I appreciate that some Freemasons feel that they are trying to work on the positive side of what was the original, I guess, intent behind Freemasonry, and I'm assuming you're one of those people, correct?
	Yes.
	Well, I am a Freemason.
	I've been involved with it for 18 years.
	I can only give you my experience in the Blue Lodge and high-degree system.
	I have never seen anything negative involved with it, but I'm not going to come on here and say, it's like anything else in life, nothing is 100% positive, nothing is 100% negative.
	It's really only shades of grey.
	And Freemasonry does have a dark side to it.
	That's irrefutable.
	I don't deny that.
	And, you know, it's definitely had an influence upon my life.
	And in the book, I try to document its influence on the United States of America.
	And I think I successfully do that.
	In fact, I even have a chapter called The United States of Freemasonry where I present that the United States is really the world's first Masonic Republic.
	I am very aware of the influence of Freemasonry and the impact it has in this world.
	Has it all been positive?
	Of course not.
	I wouldn't come on here and say that's always been the case.
	Okay, and what about your understanding about the Rothschilds?
	Again, this is not anything that I really delve into in my book.
	This is, again, dealing with international banking and things like that.
	My books, The Royal Arch of Enoch, It's really about the high-degree system and this influence and this, you know, the importance of this ritual in high-degree Freemasonry and how it's really being used to formulate the United States.
	The Illuminati of Bavaria of Adam Breishaupt I talk about in the book.
	Again, I do not believe this organization as it was set up back then exists to this day.
	And I'm familiar with the Rothschilds.
	You know, their connection to Freemasonry, one could argue, is somewhat nebulous and tenuous.
	So again, that may be a little bit beyond the area of my expertise.
	Okay.
	So you went to Oxford, though, right?
	Yes, ma'am.
	And did you...
	Well, I mean, it seems hard for me to believe that you're quite as naive as you sound in this regard.
	I mean, are you, you know, because there is now they're almost inseparable.
	I mean, certainly in studying Freemasonry, you got into the work of Aleister Crowley, for example.
	Sure.
	Absolutely.
	Okay.
	And so you would understand that those rituals, well, for the most part, that's a black magician at work, right?
	I would disagree with that.
	Crowley viewed himself as a white magician.
	And I agree with you, there was a very dark side to this man.
	But there is a lot surrounding Aleister Crowley.
	And some of the rituals he was performing.
	He is a Freemason.
	This has been somewhat debatable because the lodge he joined at the time had a falling out with the Grand Orient of France.
	But I recognize him as a Freemason.
	I wouldn't deny his Masonic membership.
	And, of course, he's much more well known for these other two groups he's involved with, the Golden Dawn and the O.T.O. I really think that, you know, to understand Crowley, you know, a lot of his workings are based upon Blue Lodge and high-degree Freemasonry.
	I think that's really irrefutable.
	Do you think he was being symbolic when he talked about sacrifice?
	Yeah, I mean, Crowley definitely had a tongue-in-cheek side to him.
	And I would agree with you, by the way, on that.
	So I'm not completely critical of Crowley.
	As a matter of fact, I do believe that he was deeper than a lot of people give him credit for.
	But I also believe that there was a definite dark side to him and certainly was followed by a lot of people that sort of were, you know, Seeing him on the dark side exclusively.
	So, you know, but if you read, and I have read some of his works, and I do know that he talks about sacrifice, animal sacrifice, just at the very beginning of it.
	You know, I don't mean to be offensive here, but I think, you know, you sound like you've really gotten into this subject, you know, and obviously you've gone up the ranks.
	But it would seem if you're alive today, in the world today, and you are a person who's studying Freemasonry and Masonry, in essence you would consider yourself a magician that you have to be aware of.
	I mean, it would be extremely naive not to be aware of Of the extreme dark side of Freemasonry and Masons and what's being done with this.
	And I don't even see how you could avoid being sort of coerced and even recruited to be part of some of these rituals.
	If you indeed got into it, if you stayed on an intellectual level, that would be just a matter of study, but I don't think you can rise through the ranks at this point, and correct me if I'm wrong, without going through some of these things in the real world.
	Well, I mean, I'm a 32nd degree mason, and I haven't seen any of this stuff that is often talked about.
	I've never seen anything in masonry that I would call satanic.
	I've never seen anything within masonry that I would call Luciferian.
	I've never seen any sort of sacrifice or anything, even close to any of this.
	And, you know, I can only speak to my experiences to what I've seen.
	I have never been privy to any of this, anything like this.
	Okay, now what about this book that came out?
	Because, you know, I think I had to have to flip through websites, but there is somewhere where you referred to In reference to Dan Brown and his, you know, more popularization of this information, right, in terms of the novels he wrote?
	Are you talking about the Dan Brown material?
	Yes.
	Okay, what was the question?
	I'm sorry, I didn't catch it.
	Okay, well, for example, The Lost Symbol.
	Have you ever read that book?
	No, I have not.
	Oh, alright.
	Well, that's interesting because that's where I guess Dan Brown gets a bit more sinister than he was in the first books that he wrote, the one that's more popular, which I'm forgetting the name of it offhand now.
	I think you're talking about Da Vinci Code?
	Yes.
	Yeah, I've never read Lost Symbol, but again, that's, you know, those books are just works of fiction.
	Well, that's maybe a matter of opinion.
	You know, it is interesting.
	There is reason to believe that there is perhaps a more covert...
	I don't know, agenda behind the publishing of those books at this particular time.
	Certainly, The Lost Symbol has quite a bit of very interesting resonance.
	So, okay, well, in terms of your understanding, let's maybe start with that, because you really seem to have...
	I don't know, you became a lawyer, but you also seem to have dedicated yourself to this in a very serious way if you've written these books.
	So...
	What is it that you were trying to convey?
	Right.
	With the first book, what I would say is the primary thesis of that book, this is the Royal Archive Enoch book, was, I mean, this does get controversial, was that this Royal Archive Enoch ceremonial, it's really, sort of, I lay out in the book what's going on in the Blue Lodge as far as the ritual goes.
	And how this sort of, you know, this story in the Blue Lodge is carried forward in this high-degree ceremonial called the Royal Arch of Enoch.
	And the ritual is coming out of Paris, France in the 1740s, 1750s.
	It's controversial.
	You have, I mean, you know, you have it incorporating elements of the Book of Enoch, or one Enoch, which shouldn't be happening.
	According to mainstream history, like I said earlier, you know, the Book of Enoch is lost to Western civilization.
	But you have with Blue Lodge Freemasonry, this is coming on the scene in England in 1717, you have the high-degree system.
	This is what's called the original high-degree system that really birthed the Scottish Rite and influences the York Rite.
	It's called the Rite of Perfection.
	It's 25 degrees, comes out of Paris, France in the 1740s, 1750s.
	This is actually being developed by the Society of Jesus, the Jesuits, as part of the Counter-Reformation to undermine Blue Lodge Freemasonry in England.
	And it's really being developed as a vehicle to restore these short Catholic pretenders back to the throne of England.
	And it's because of this that these degrees really never take off in London and its environs.
	The thesis and the point of the book was, number one, was to point out this historical anomaly, and number two was then to go into just what was coming out of this ritual, how it tied into the Blue Lodge, and how it was really symbolically defining Masonry in general, but also this high degree, this Royal Archive Enoch ceremonial, being used to develop and cultivate the United States of America.
	And you get controversial things with this, where in the ritual, and I'm just plowing over this material, Amala, if you want to jump in and interrupt me, you have to really understand what's going on in the two degree systems, where in the Blue Lodge you have the word of a master mason, He's possessed by this character called Hiram Abith.
	He's building Solomon's temple.
	The word that he has is the name of God.
	It's what's commonly referred to as the Tetragrammaton.
	And it's through the possession of this word that all wisdom is made possible.
	This comes out of Masonic lore.
	He's killed.
	These three assassins want the word.
	He won't give it to them.
	He's killed.
	He's ultimately resurrected in the Blue Lodge ritual.
	It's very Gnostic.
	It has a very Gnostic theme to it.
	The entire ritual is solar in nature.
	It's really a retelling of the Osirian cycle in Egypt.
	But then you fast-forward to this high-degree ceremony of the Royal Arch.
	This word that Hiram of Beth had is recovered, and the candidate recovers it, and in doing so becomes this sort of symbolic Enochian Pythagoras Hermes Trismegistus character.
	And it's really, in the United States, the way it's being set up originally, it was really the highest degree of Freemasonry.
	And even in the Scottish Rite, really, and even in the York Rite, it's really the end of the Masonic story.
	A lot of the degrees that come after this ritual take place chronologically before the Royal Arch.
	So the whole book was this gigantic study on this degree, How is incorporating these books of Enoch, or excuse me, the Book of Enoch, and how this was influencing material culture in the 21st century, in the 19th century, 20th century, 20th century.
	Okay, well, then the Book of Enoch has been found, right?
	Correct.
	It's published.
	I mean, I have a copy.
	Right.
	So when you say it was lost, and then you're saying that it's being...
	What would you say is the key then to the Book of Enoch that it brings forward into Freemasonry and what you call these blue degrees, which I see have something to do with what they consider to be perfection.
	Right.
	Well, the Blue Lodge is just the first three degrees of masonry.
	The idea of perfection, that comes into the Scottish Rite.
	That's the Lodge of Perfection.
	That ends with the Royal Arch Ceremonial.
	In the York Rite, this is called exaltation.
	It's the same thing.
	It's interchangeable words for the same thing.
	The Book of Enoch, of one Enoch, is off Western civilization.
	It's lost to Western civilization until essentially 1821.
	But what my book documents is this high-degree ritual is incorporating components of the Book of Enoch in this high-degree ritual as far back as the 1740s, 1750s.
	So it's an anomaly is really what's going on.
	And where the book came from, I've been asked that before.
	That's an interesting story as well, of potential sources of this lost book.
	The ritual documents the recovery of this name of God.
	This comes straight out of the Book of Enoch, where Enoch beholds the Hebrew Kabbalah, which has an emanation of the name of God.
	And it's through this that he's able to restore the two pillars of Enoch.
	And this has to do with the Book of Enoch and this wisdom that Enoch is given in the Book of Enoch from these series of archangels and watcher, quote-unquote, demon entities.
	And what Enoch does in the Masonic lore and the ritual, when Enoch gets back down to earth with this wisdom, he catches word that the flood of Noah is coming.
	And in order to thwart, in order to basically trick God and thwart, you know, the flood of Noah, Noah, excuse me, Enoch takes this wisdom that he's learned in the afterlife in the Book of Enoch Conceals it on two pillars, buries it in the subterranean vault with this secret name, the secret word of God, and it's through the correct pronunciation of this word in the Masonic lore and ritual that these two pillars are restored.
	So you have this very, you know, symbolic ritual going on, and again, it's probably the premier ritual Okay, but the pillars, in other words, there is controversy as to the idea that the pillars even exist, whether they've been found and all of this sort of thing, right?
	Well, right.
	It's a symbolic ritual.
	Whether it's actual real history, that's debatable.
	I agree with you there.
	It could be.
	It could be.
	When you really get into this, when you really begin to research it, and you really begin to see some of the symbolisms coming out of this ceremonial and who's developing it, you really do begin to question, is this really trying to convey some sort of lost history?
	It's a fascinating study.
	I get into it much more in the book.
	In the ritual, for example, in the ritual, as it exists today, it's generally this subterranean Enochian treasure vault It's discovered by temple builders who are constructing the second temple, which is known as the Second Temple of Zorobabel.
	The first temple is the Temple of Solomon.
	The second temple that they're building is called the Temple of Zorobabel.
	That name literally means the path to Babylon.
	The Jewish governor who is building it is named Zorobabel.
	He's dispatched by a Persian emperor named Cyrus the Great to reconstruct the second temple.
	At any rate, in one of the earlier workings of this ritual, this secret treasure vault is discovered by a coterie of Roman Catholic Knights Templar.
	And this is actually where the Scottish Rite gets its name from.
	The Scottish Rite is actually French in origin.
	It gets its name from this degree, this early working of this thing called the Scotch Master's Degree, where this treasure vault is discovered by a coterie of Roman Catholic Knights Templar.
	At any rate, one begins to wonder, is this ritual trying to convey some sort of lost history?
	Is this potentially what the Templars found in their time in the Holy Land, excavating the Temple Mount?
	It's certainly possible.
	I wish I could give you a definitive answer for that, but it's a fascinating study and it's definitely a possibility.
	It's in play.
	Okay.
	Now, did you pursue all of this to become, you know, in other words, to sort of go on a path to enlightenment or what you might call perfection, although I think that's maybe the wrong use of the word.
	But for whatever purpose?
	In other words, I understand that you had an intellectual interest, but was it also because you were looking for some kind of spiritual path to enlightenment type of thing?
	I guess that's certainly one way, I guess, to look at it.
	I became, like I said, this has just been a subject matter that sort of always fascinated me, just for whatever reason.
	And I guess, you know, when I began researching this, And doing the research and this and that, I mean, of course, back in the day, I wasn't as cognizant of this material as I am today.
	But I guess, you know, when I was researching this and doing the work and reading the books and going through the different materials, You know, and again, like I said, I don't think this book, I don't think either book, if I can state this emphatically, I can tell you that neither book would have been possible but for my Masonic membership.
	I would not have been able to write either one of these books if I had not become a Masonic Freemason.
	That I know for certain.
	But I guess when I went through the degrees, you know, the way it is for a lot of Masons, and it was for me too, when you go through these degrees, you go through somewhat shell-shocked, I mean, it is sort of an odd ritual.
	I joined a fraternity house at Gettysburg, and the rituals actually parallel themselves, to be honest with you.
	But again, you're not ready for it, and you're paraded around the lodge, and you're half-naked, and you're blindfolded, you can't see.
	But when you step back and then you start reading the works of people like Albert Pike and Manly P. Hall and Albert Mackey, you really get a greater grasp of the idea I think this is going to answer your question, that these rituals are really containing a lot of deep symbolism and have a lot of ulterior meanings to them.
	And that really fascinated me.
	And I guess I just started this quest to write these books.
	And The Royal Archive Enoch was the first one, and it literally was 20 years of research.
	And I took that 20 years and turned it on Hollywood Next, which is cinema symbolism.
	And I'm actually writing another book on Freemasonry right now.
	We're going to provide more backstory, just with the history of Freemasonry and its importance within the United States culture.
	Okay, so you went through all these levels, and may I ask if you have had any sort of realizations along the way, and did you have any assistance with,
	say, opening your third eye and becoming aware of, I'm not sure what they call it, but kundalini energy, opening the chakras, depending on how you want to say it, That sort of thing.
	I don't know if I'd go so far as to say that.
	I definitely feel like I had epiphanies along the way.
	I definitely had your Pythagoras eureka aha moment, I have found it, sort of thing, where I was able to understand, and especially with the Blue Lodge, I was clearly able to see...
	Through just the research, through writing it, and through going through the ritual, the idea of the Osirian cycle from Egypt, the entire idea of the solar history, and maybe that's not the right word, the solar iconography, that's a better word, that's going on inside the Blue Lodge,
	the parallels between this solar iconography and what I would even call, you know, astrology, astrotheology, within, you know, the Abrahamic faiths of Christianity and Judaism and even Islam, I had a much better understanding of that.
	And I saw this symbolism even being carried forward, you know, the solar iconography going forward even in this royal arch ceremonial.
	I mean, you even get into the Book of Enoch where there's an astronomy book, you know, an astrology book where, you know, he's taught, you know, hey, if you want to, you know, be like God, quote-unquote, study the sun and the moon and the stars, essentially.
	So, I definitely had, along the way, epiphany moments, you know, epiphanies and eureka moments, and that definitely happened, and, you know, I think I'm better off for it, and it definitely made the writing of this book, I had a much more greater understanding writing this book than I did,
	say, even 10 years ago, you know, 15 years ago, and, like I said, you know, just joining the temple and seeing the rituals and going through the rituals, Definitely, I had my ah-ha moments, and I put them in the book, and it's out there for anyone to,
	you know, like I said, just to sum up real quick, it was definitely being able to not only see this material, but forge links, forge nexuses to things that at first I did not have any clue were Masonic, per se, or solar in nature, or were containing esoteric symbolisms.
	That now I have a much greater level of understanding on.
	So I guess if you want to say, you know, maybe my third eye has been opened, that I'm more symbolically adroit or alert.
	Yeah, I mean, I guess there's maybe something to that argument.
	Okay, well, let's just take your photograph on your website, for example.
	It looks like you didn't just take any old photograph here.
	You've got a book in your hand, a certain book, and you've got What appears to be something of a wand in your hand, is that right?
	And you're also showing the ring, is that right?
	I assume you were talking about the me where I'm in a black suit sitting down?
	Yes.
	Okay, it is a cigar in my one hand, and I'm wearing a couple rings.
	I believe in that photo, I don't have it in front of me, but I believe two are Masonic and one is my family crest or coat of arms.
	Okay, and your father, let's see, your Sullivan is the last name, right?
	So your family line is what we would call loosely Illuminati.
	Not to my knowledge.
	My name is Sullivan.
	My father is not a Freemason.
	My grandfather, and I've had grandfathers who were, they are long deceased.
	But at no time have I, do I now or have ever considered myself to be Illuminati.
	And again, I would be, in 2015, I would be, Robert W. Sullivan IV would be highly skeptical of someone identifying themselves as Illuminati in 2015.
	That's my understanding.
	Okay, alright.
	So, are you aware of the work of Jordan Maxwell?
	Yes, I am.
	Okay, and you know that he was in touch with Manly P. Hall before his death and that he also gave him his remaining books and memoirs, so to speak.
	Absolutely.
	I think Manly P. Hall is great.
	I rely on him heavily.
	I've read all his books.
	Okay.
	But you don't see an overall control agenda in the overall Masonic tradition?
	I'll answer your question this way, because I've been asked this before and I don't mind answering it.
	The way I can best describe it is this, and I'm going to do my best not to dodge your question.
	When it comes to Freemasonry, a lot of people have been members of it, and a lot of people have been influenced by it, myself included.
	And I think what is happening is that people such as the Founding Fathers and people like DeWitt Clinton are using the teachings and moralities and lessons and symbols of Freemasonry and using them to craft society.
	And I believe they are doing this unilaterally because they are so impressed with it.
	I have never, like I said, I can only speak from my experience.
	I have never seen or been part of any sort of secret organization, Luciferian, evil, devil-worshipping cabal within Freemasonry.
	I'll answer your question this way.
	If it's there, I've never seen it.
	I'm aware of the works of Manly P. Hall.
	I know he talks about this, you know, in his books.
	I mean, I even used the one quote in Royal Arch.
	And Hall, I think, is great when it comes to symbolism.
	I know from being a Freemason, Hall does kind of lose a lot of Freemasons when he gets into this.
	And he's clearly getting this material when he gets into this sort of, you know, this idea of the unknown philosophers and this secret group of unknown philosophers.
	He is clearly picking that up from Madame Blavatsky.
	And I don't have a problem with it, per se.
	I don't know if I'd necessarily agree with it.
	I will answer your question this way.
	I mean, Freemasonry is very important, and a lot of people have used its teachings To craft the modern world and craft the United States.
	Could there be potentially a hidden hand in all of this?
	I think you will find Illuminati footprints and fingerprints of the development of this country.
	You will find a ton of, you know, Masonic icons, you know, whether it be the Erie Canal, the Statue of Liberty, the Federal District.
	You'll find it in Baltimore, Maryland.
	You'll find it on College Seals, California.
	So, you know, I mean, this isn't a coincidence.
	I mean, this is definitely bare intentionally.
	I don't dispute that.
	I just, what I would say is I don't necessarily see this evil hidden hand behind all this.
	I think the problem with it is that there was no transparency with any of this.
	What I mean to say is that, like, say, for example, with the federal district, Clearly, there are very noticeable Masonic templates with the Federal District.
	All the architects who worked on it were Freemasons.
	I think if it's 1791, George Washington had published treaties of some kind saying, hey, listen, I'm a Freemason.
	We're using Freemasonry.
	We're using its tools and its tools.
	To craft this federal district, here's what we're doing, you know, have a nice day, read this at your will, sign George Washington, countersign Benjamin Banneker, you know, countersign Benjamin Franklin.
	My gut feeling is probably 95% of the population probably could have cared less.
	I think the sentiment would have been, as long as you're not interfering with my livelihood and my family, go right ahead.
	Unfortunately, this wasn't done.
	It was done in secret.
	There was no transparency.
	And it's viewed as evil.
	I don't believe the intention behind any of this is evil.
	In fact, you could actually argue it the other way, that it's very spiritual.
	It's very divine in nature.
	I understand the paranoia.
	I understand the anti-Masonry.
	I get it.
	Like I said, I just don't happen to necessarily agree with all of it.
	Okay.
	Okay.
	Now, what about the Templars?
	Okay.
	Well, that's very interesting.
	This week we'll talk about the Templars.
	They factor into Freemasonry in a unique way.
	And what happens is I'm going to have to just go back in time a little bit and just give the listeners just a brief history of Freemasonry here.
	And what we have going on is we have Blue Lodge Freemasonry.
	This is Craft Lodge Freemasonry.
	This is degrees 1, 2, and 3, officially coming on the scene in England in June of 1717.
	This is when it's officially on the history map.
	I do not dispute that the Masonic Lodge and Temple existed before this in some form or fashion.
	This is evident from writings of people like Elias Ashmole, who is an Oxford lawyer who flirted with the Rosicrucians.
	But it officially comes on the scene in 1717.
	Shortly thereafter, I want to say it's 1721, a Presbyterian minister writes something called the Constitutions of the Freemasons.
	And this book Traces the legendary history of the Freemasons all the way back to these Biblical stoneworkers who are building things like the Tower of Babel.
	He hints at Egypt.
	Then he gets into the Gothic cathedral builders of Europe.
	And it's this legendary history.
	Years later, a very interesting character named Andrew Michael the Chevalier Ramsey comes along.
	He is very interesting.
	He is a Roman Catholic, English Jacobite.
	Universalist who's living in France.
	He's a Freemason.
	He has an honorary degree from Oxford University.
	And in 1737, he writes this thing called The Oration of Chevalier Ramsey.
	And what he does is, he gives this alternative history to Anderson.
	And what Ramsey says is, he says, Anderson, you know, I don't necessarily disagree with you on the stone building.
	Obviously, there's operative Freemasonry.
	You had the, you know, actual stone cutters incorporating these, you know, components of sacred architecture, Vesica Pisces, Golden Ratio, yada, yada, yada.
	I don't dispute that.
	He said, but the real history of Freemasonry originates with this group called the Knights Templar.
	He said, and Freemasonry is Roman Catholicism.
	He said, and Freemasonry comes from when the Templars were over in the Holy Lands on the Crusade.
	They came in contact with these remnants of the mystery tradition.
	Things like the Sufis, Mithraism, Zoroastrianism, Pythagoreanism, the Egyptian mystery.
	The Templars came in contact with all this, brought it back to Europe, and incorporated it, and this is where modern-day Freemasonry comes from.
	So you have within the high degree, and it's Ramsey's Oration of 1737 that really births, is really the thing, the firing shot that births the high degree system.
	And this is really one of the differences within Freemasonry, where you have in the Blue Lodge, you have themes of democracy and egalitarianism and equality and brotherhood.
	When you enter the high degree bodies, you will definitely find elements of apotheosis, becoming divine, papal monarchy, things that sort of run contradictory to the Blue Lodge system.
	And when you understand that this was being cultivated originally as part of the Counter-Reformation, as sort of a vehicle of the Jesuits to undermine England, which was their modus operandi since the Council of Trent, it begins to make more sense.
	But you will have this very sort of split between the high-degree system and the Blue Lodge, just symbolically and philosophically, where you definitely get into these much more ideas of papal monarchy, Okay,
	well, what about your understanding of Lucifer?
	What is it that you, how do you characterize this individual?
	Sure, when it comes to Lucifer, I'm your Huffleberry.
	Lucifer comes into Freemasonry from the works of of a Freemason named Albert Pike.
	Manly P. Hall also picks up on this, and I talk about it also.
	Albert Pike is not the originator of the Scottish Rite.
	I hear that all the time, Albert Pike is the inventor of the Scottish Rite.
	Anyone telling you that is 100% false.
	Albert Pike isn't born until 1809.
	The Scottish Rite is set up by a man named Frederick Dalcho in 1801, years before Pike's even born.
	Pike is an odd fellow years before he becomes a Freemason, but he becomes the sovereign grand commander of the Scottish Rite at the outbreak of the American Civil War in 1859.
	It's a position he holds his entire life until his death in 1891.
	In 1871, he publishes a book called The Morals and Dogma of the Scottish Rite of Freemasonry, which, if you have read it, has nothing to do with Freemasonry.
	It's the first book published in the United States about comparative religion.
	Complete rip-off.
	Most sections of the works of a French transcendentalist magician named Elathus Levy.
	Pike quotes in verbatim at some points.
	And what you have comparatively is Pike comparing the planet Venus to Lucifer.
	The nexus is that Venus occasionally rises in the east as false-like.
	And this is its connection to Lucifer as a false sort of deity.
	Venus is a false light.
	However, Venus or Lucifer, being the light bearer, announces the coming of the true light of the world, the sun, which is the, you know, which is really what I would call in the royal arch, which I, you know, first portion of the royal arch, the sun is the most important symbol of Freemasonry.
	I mean, even the blue light is set up based on the sun.
	So really what he's doing is he's using Lucifer as a parallel to the planet Venus, As a herald of the coming light of the world, the sun.
	I mean, he says it.
	Is it Lucifer that bears the light?
	Doubt it not.
	I mean, he's absolutely right.
	If he said, is it Venus that announces the sunrise?
	Doubt it not.
	I mean, he's right again.
	It's the same thing.
	Manly P. Hall uses this iconography a few years later in a book he writes called The Lost Keys of Freemasonry.
	He talks about the seething energies of Lucifer being in your hands, you know, once you become a Freemason.
	And again, what he's really talking about is When you're getting into the Blue Lodge, you're using the sun as the source of light or enlightenment.
	So what he's talking about is when you join the Lodge, the seeding energies of wisdom, of Luciferianism, or solar energy are in your hands, and you do with it as you please.
	I do not believe in any way, shape, or form any of these men, and myself included, were referring to Lucifer as some sort of evil demonic entity.
	It's a parallel To esoteric wisdom and solar energy and solar light and, of course, the sun being the light for enlightenment.
	I mean, it's the premier icon within Freemasonry.
	I mean, in fact, it's the way I opened up the Royal Arch of Enoch book.
	So, you know, when Lucifer comes into Freemasonry from Albert Pike, I talk about it in the Royal Arch.
	And you'll find it in Manly P. Hall as well.
	You go through the Blue Lodge or you go through the high-degree system, either in the York Rite or the Scottish Rite, the word Lucifer is not mentioned one time.
	It's just a symbolic reference in a book referring to the sun and the light of the world.
	Okay.
	Now, are you aware of the Anunnaki and, let's say, Sitchin's work, for example?
	I am to an extent, but, you know, I think, I don't want to anticipate your question or put words in your mouth, but, you know, if it's the whole idea of Enoch going into heaven and these are not angels, these are competing extraterrestrial races, I'm familiar with it, but it's not something, I don't hold myself out as an expert on this, and it's really not my daily week 100%.
	I don't mind talking about it, but I'm not 100%.
	I'm not sure I'm the guy you really want to ask about it, but I am familiar with it.
	Okay.
	Well, now, actually, you know, I'm interested from your point of view of what you understand about the Anunnaki and the idea that, you know, that the secret societies and especially possibly Freemasonry were infiltrated at a certain point.
	And perhaps Albert Pike was the instigator on some level, but it appears to have happened even earlier than that.
	And I wonder if you appreciate sort of some of the references that may be referring to so-called God that aren't really talking about the Creator per se, but talking about an Anunnaki person.
	Well, within Freemasonry, I would say, I don't know if I'd go so far as to call it an infiltration.
	I guess you could.
	When you get into the high degree system, the original high degree, the intent was to destroy England.
	Like I said, it's being cultivated by the Society of Jesus to put the stort pretenders back on the throne of England.
	That's really part of the modus operandi of the high degrees.
	Once all notions of stort restoration or stort Catholic restoration had passed, the high degrees, you know, begin to flourish.
	And of course in the United States, France Was our chief ally, so it's really no surprise that the French degree system really takes off here.
	When you get into Freemasonry and deity, Blue Line Freemasonry is deism, in a nutshell.
	Meaning, in order to join, you have to believe in a Creator God or a Supreme Being.
	They do not, you know, you can be Christian, you can be Muslim, you can be Hindu, you can be Buddhist, you can be Jewish.
	What you can't be is really atheist or agnostic.
	Those are really the two no-no's that you're not supposed to, you know, you can't have that.
	The idea of what this God is to you is left to the individual nation.
	I would say that, you know, this entity in Freemasonry, the term that's generally given is Great Architect of the Universe.
	This is just the title assigned to God.
	Also, the Grand Geometrician, you'll hear that from time to time.
	You know, it's a supreme being.
	How you get there personally is sort of left up to you.
	I would say, I wouldn't go so far as to say some sort of an Anunnaki reference.
	I don't know if that's really salient or anything like that.
	I would say, you know, where this can get controversial is when you get into the idea, and it's not really the deity per se, But you get into the whole idea of this royal...
	I mean, this is what's gotten me in trouble.
	You know, when I... Most Freemasons who have read the book love it, but there are some that don't.
	Of course, I'm not about criticism.
	The knock on the book is...
	And what is not like is the idea that This Royal Arch Ceremonial, the idea that the wisdom that is restored is coming from this idea, it's coming from a group of fallen angels or watchers.
	Right.
	Right, so you have in Freemasonry, technically, you have Freemasons being sort of the preservers of antediluvian quote-unquote demonic wisdom that God was trying to eradicate with the flood of Noah.
	That's gotten me into a little bit of trouble, not too much, You know, if you read the Old Testament, the wisdom is considered, you know, evil.
	This is what God is trying to eradicate with the flood.
	In the Book of Enoch, despite the book, or excuse me, despite the wisdom coming from these deities, or excuse me, these entities, the wisdom is still considered divine.
	So it's almost, this is going to sound very oxymoronic, it's almost sort of the divine origins of evil, if that makes any sense.
	But you have the idea of Freemasons being the preservers of this sort of lost, you know, antediluvian wisdom.
	I mean, this is part of the crux of anti-Masonry, that Masons are the protectors of wisdom that God was trying to eradicate with the flood of Noah.
	And I talk about this much more in the book, but I would say, you know, that would be definitely a controversial aspect of the Royal Archive Enoch book.
	And probably it's been, when it comes to other Freemasons, I guess that would probably be The criticism that has been laid against me more than any other.
	Okay.
	Now, in terms of your own family history, you say you don't have any Illuminati in your family line as far as you know.
	Is that correct?
	Yeah, yeah, I hope not.
	Okay.
	Not to my knowledge.
	I appreciate that, but I'm just curious, have you investigated your family line?
	Well, I've taken it back, not back to the beginning of time, I've taken it back to a certain extent, not that far, but I mean, I can tell you as I sit here, my father is not a Freemason.
	My grandfather, this is on my father's side, my grandfather, Robert W. Sullivan Jr., was a Freemason and was what was called a past master.
	That's someone who ruled over a Masonic Lodge for a year.
	That's called a worshiper.
	He's called a passmaster.
	His wife, her father, so this would have been my great-grandfather or my grandmother, he was also a Freemason, he was also a passmaster.
	So I've had some relatives who have been, you know, involved with Masonic rulership, leading Masonic lodges and things like that.
	I mention in the book, I give a brief history of this in the book, in Royal Arch of Enoch, But no, as far as I can tell, no one in my family has been in the Illuminati.
	And I have never traced my family back to colonial era or anything like that.
	But to my knowledge, no one in my family has been a member of the Illuminati.
	Okay.
	Thank you.
	And, you know, I just want to say that, you know, I really appreciate all your...
	um sort of sincerity in answering my questions uh i know i'm sort of jumping all over the place here but i i think that people we have a sort of we're going to have a very uh a varied audience i guess you might say and some will have knowledge of these areas and some will have none
	so um i'm sort of trying to link a few things that uh sort of stay separate normally maybe in people's minds and try to try to weave a connecting through line in in using my questions to do so so i do have some method to my madness here um What I want to know, and I do want to get into symbolism in cinema.
	If you want to.
	Yeah, and I worked in that area in Hollywood for 20 years, so I have some background there, but I also would like to first ask you, in terms of Freemasons and You know, you haven't gone back into your family line.
	I assume you've been looking at the symbolism within Washington, D.C., for example, right?
	Yes, I have a whole chapter on it.
	Okay.
	And so you know what these symbols mean, but do you understand what they mean energetically?
	Are you aware of things like ley lines and that sort of energy?
	Yes, I am.
	I am familiar with that, and I do believe, I do not dispute really what you're saying.
	I mean, I do believe that the incorporation, I think this is what you're sort of asking me, I think, you know, this goes back to some of the origins of where this comes from.
	You know, the idea of incorporating this arcana, it definitely has an esoteric impact, and I think it is symbolically important, and there is I don't think if it was the case, I don't think it would be as prevalent as it is.
	And I do believe that the incorporation of this material is very powerful and it is trying to convey powerful imagery.
	Okay, but what about as a control mechanism?
	No, I don't necessarily see it as a control mechanism.
	The idea of incorporating alignments to stars and dropping a cornerstone on a certain date and using Masonic symbols and doing alignments to different constellations and things of that nature, it's a form of Christian mysticism.
	It's Christian Kabbalah is what it really is.
	It's Kabbalah spelled with a C instead of a K. And this comes out of the works of a man named Raymond Lully, who is a medieval Renaissance Kabbalist.
	And what he talked about was incorporating these symbols, these astrological icons into buildings and symbols and alignments.
	You're turning the building into a forever memory temple.
	And this is picked up on, you also find this in the works of people like Giordano Bruno.
	And the idea is by doing this, the motivation is that by aligning the building to certain stars and things of this nature and the symbolism, since the stars are closer to God and Heaven, you're symbolically drawing down divinity onto Earth.
	And you're tapping into the spirituality of that particular star system, Or constellation, or planet, or something to that effect.
	Well, isn't there a predominance of focus, correct me if I'm wrong again, but on Orion?
	Yes.
	Well, it's interesting that you mention that, because within the Blue Lodge ritual, you are actually, the constellation Orion, It was in the Egyptian pantheon was Osiris, and the virgin consort is Sirius, which is Isis.
	And this plays a huge role, what you just mentioned, in the third-degree ritual of the Blue Lodge of Freemasonry.
	This is the third-degree master mason ritual, which, for lack of a better word, is a retelling of the Osirian cycle, where the candidate plays Hiram of Bith, Hiram Abyss is just a solar icon, and it's really just a retelling, it's just another name to give to Osiris.
	And you will find references to the virgin mother Isis as well within the Blue Lodge.
	You know, Albert Pike talks about the blazing star of Freemasonry being Sirius.
	This is, of course, a reference to Isis.
	This, in Freemasonry, is what's called a pentagram.
	And, you know, this is symbolized in Freemasonry in the Blue Lodge as a pentagram, Sirius.
	And, you know, this is why the candidate, when he's resurrected from the dead, as Osiris is, is brought back to life on the five points of fellowship.
	And, of course, five points form a pentagram.
	And the candidate has this substitute word whispered in his ear.
	It's not the real word of God, it's a substitute word.
	The word is lost when he dies.
	And this is a complete parallel to Isis, who possessed this secret word, the secret name of Amun-Ra, which he used to resurrect Osiris to Sire-Horus.
	So you'll find this very deep Egyptian parallel, and you get this idea of the candidate being this, you know, now that Osiris is dead, His solar replacement is Horus, who is the solar replacement for Osiris, and of course he birthed, he's the son, he's the child of Isis, who is now widowed.
	I'm sure you've heard the term, son of a widow, the widow's son, Freemasons are son of a widow.
	That's the widow they're referring to, is Isis, who is the widow of, who is widowed upon the death of Osiris.
	And symbolically, on a symbolic level, all Freemasons are symbolically Horus, or Horai.
	The son of Isis.
	And of course, Horus is a solar deity.
	And of course, since Isis only birthed the sun, which is masculine, Isis never birthed to the moon, which is feminine.
	This is why only men can become Freemasons.
	So you will find this astrological story being told in the Blue Lodge.
	And yeah, I mean, within Freemasonry, I mean, within architecture, you will find alignments Okay, and I take it you aren't aware of the symbolism that had to do with the Anunnaki, the return of Horus, basically said to be the return of Marduk.
	Are you familiar with that link-up, and also in terms of I guess a lot of secret societies surrounding all of this that certainly involves Masons, or a portion of the Masons,
	having to do with the return of basically the New World Order, the Rising Sun, and Horus being the Rising Sun, therefore being synonymous with Marduk, the son of Enki.
	And consider it to be the New World Order.
	Have you heard these link-ups?
	Well, you have definitely parallels within the Egyptian and the Babylonian, and of course you have a Babylonian intrusion into Freemasonry, like I mentioned earlier, with this second temple being rebuilt, which is, you know, I'm writing another book on Freemasonry right now called Freemasonry and the Path to Babylon, which Which gets more into what you're talking about, which I get more into the Egyptian in Royal Arch.
	But I would say regarding a new world order, it's something I talk about in the Royal Arch of Enoch book.
	And really what it is is, in my opinion, at any rate, the idea of a new world order is just that, the United States of America.
	The United States was a complete departure from the old world order, which was European monarchy and Vatican rule.
	So, to me, the New World Order really is the United States of America.
	That's my opinion in the book.
	Okay, but the United States of America was already formed, long formed, actually, when George Bush Sr.
	referred to the New World Order.
	I'm sorry, when who?
	George Bush Sr.
	made a famous statement referring to the New World Order.
	Right, right.
	I mean, this is like, you know, is George Bush talking about a new world order, a one world government, things like that.
	Right.
	I mean, I don't have a crystal ball in front of me.
	I can't tell you whether or not that's coming down the pike or anything like that.
	But my take on a new world order is really the United States of America.
	I guess you could craft an argument that, as far as a one world government is concerned, I guess you could kind of maybe draw a parallel and say something to the effect of this could be, if we're leaving the age, if astrologically we're leaving the age of Pisces right now and we're heading to the age of Aquarius,
	and you have the idea of Aquarius being this very, you know, egalitarian, excuse me, society sort of embracing the principles of Freemasonry.
	However, if you wanted to say there was a dark side to this, I guess Aquarius' dark side is it would be The polar opposite house is Leo, which is ruled by the sun.
	So you can kind of create maybe an argument that in 150 years, the Aquarian age will birth a one-world government.
	That's certainly possible.
	Whether that happens or not, I don't think I'll be around to see it.
	But it's definitely possible.
	I don't have a crystal ball in front of me.
	Well, I mean, you don't really need a crystal ball to hear about the Patriot Act.
	I mean, you do live in this century, right?
	So you're aware of the encroachment on our personal freedoms, are you not?
	Yeah, I mean, I'm aware of the Patriot Act.
	I would say, me personally, my life hasn't really changed too much.
	Prior to that act being passed, and as far as the Patriot Act is concerned, I mean, I understand that, you know, we have all the cybersecurity issues and things like that.
	I do not see any necessarily nexus between that and Freemasonry.
	But yes, I mean, I'm fully aware of, you know, that we have, you know, now the, you know, NS, whatever it is that Ford Meade is, NSA is listening on in our emails and things like that.
	Right.
	But, you know, if they want to follow me on Facebook and follow me on Twitter, they can go right ahead.
	I don't think I'm doing anything that, you know, I'm not worried about it.
	I mean, I haven't had any men in black yet.
	show up on my doorstep.
	So when that happens, my opinion will drastically change.
	Okay, well, I mean, I think your awareness of maybe the implications of what you're talking about will have to change first before that's going to happen.
	But let's make that transition now to basically the symbolism in Hollywood and why you were interested to write a book about that.
	Yeah, absolutely.
	This was something that I was seeing When I was writing Royal Arch, when I was doing the final chapter of Royal Arch of Enoch, I was seeing sort of these Masonic, solar, you know, storylines, these veiled, you know, thieves going on in movies.
	I knew previously about George Lucas with the Joseph Campbell monomyth, but it was really...
	It was really, you know, when I was doing Royal Arch, like, for example, I mean, this is something I take on in the final chapter, the National Treasure movie with Nicolas Cage.
	I mean, that has some very overt Masonic overtones in it, but that movie is a Masonic ritual.
	If you want to see the Royal Archive Enoch ceremonial played out on TV, on your high-def television, Throw a national treasure.
	I mean, that's the Royal Arch of Enoch ritual.
	Okay, can you explain that?
	Go ahead.
	Yeah, no, please.
	Can you explain that in more detail?
	Yeah, absolutely.
	The Royal Arch of Enoch ceremonial, the ritual, the high-degree ritual, this is the 13th in the Scottish Rite, this is the 7th in New York Rite, is they're building the...
	It's the recovery, it's the discovery of the Masonic treasure vault beneath the holy ground.
	The Jews have returned...
	from Persia to build the second temple.
	Solomon's temple's been destroyed.
	They're clearing the rubble out of the way, and a keystone is found in the ground, and a trapdoor is sprung, and the sunlight penetrates this trapdoor, and this secret underground treasure vault is discovered with, in it, namely the pillars of Enoch and this lost word of a master mason, this name of God.
	Well, this is the exact national treasure movie.
	I mean, it's the recovery of the treasure of Freemasonry, In a subterranean vault beneath the holy ground.
	You know, that's exactly what the movie is.
	It's a Masonic ritual.
	You have it in the movie, the holy ground, the church, is in New York, which is a clear reference to a man named DeWitt Clinton, who is really, after the death of Washington, The real progenerator of transforming the United States into a Masonic Republic.
	I mean, this is why New York is the Empire State.
	I mean, it's the Masonic Empire.
	You have the Erie Canal, which is a Masonic icon.
	Union College, as connected to New York, is a Masonic icon.
	DeWitt Clinton was one of the early Royal Arch Grand Masters.
	You have the cultivation of the York Rite in New York.
	So the placement of the Holy Ground in New York City I thought was very interesting.
	So really, if you want to watch a Masonic ritual in cinema, it's the first National Treasure movie.
	National Treasure 2 also has some very veiled Masonic references in it as well.
	For example, and you just jump in if you want to cut me off or anything.
	In Part 2, you know, and again, this ties into the Da Vinci Code also, the Da Vinci Code movie, where in National Treasure Part 2, You have the Royal Arch of Enoch Ceremonial, which, again, is the recovery of this treasure.
	It's the restoration of all this antediluvian wisdom.
	The candidate possesses the name of God and becomes a symbolic restorer of the Pillars of Enoch and the wisdom contained thereon, which is the seven liberal arts and sciences and mathematics.
	So in National Treasure II, when they need wisdom, where do they turn?
	Well, they turn to Chapter 13 in Riley's book, For wisdom, and again, this is referencing this 13th degree.
	It's the 13th degree in the Scottish Rite, and it was the original 13th degree in the Rite of Perfection.
	You will find this ad nauseam in the Da Vinci Code movie.
	This is the one with Tom Hanks, where every time they need wisdom or a clue, the number 13 comes up on the screen.
	I remember the Mona Lisa is kept in Hall 13, the time when the keystone is in the back, my goodness gracious.
	I mean, you're talking about a royal arch symbol, a keystone.
	Without a keystone, you can't have an archway.
	This is when it's in the back of the van and they're leaving the Swiss vault.
	He says to the guy, he says, oh, you're wearing a Rolex.
	Why is a...
	A security guard wearing a Rolex, and they flash to it real quick.
	The time on the Rolex is 1.12.
	1 plus 12 is 13.
	So you'll find this in the DaVinci code as well.
	And this impressed me.
	And I was seeing enough of it that as a lawyer, you know, I live by the maximum of when in doubt, throw it out.
	And as a lawyer, I was seeing enough of this that I was completely convinced this was intentional and was going on.
	And I really wanted to bring Royal Archive Enoch up to the 21st century, and I completed the book, I ended the book on this, you know, talking about some of this Masonic and Enochian, what I would call solar symbolism in the movie.
	And I really liked it, and I continued on.
	I wrote Cinema Symbolism, which like I said earlier, excuse, was a continuation.
	No problem.
	No, here we go.
	And I would be interested if you looked into the movies of Spielberg in this regard.
	Some and not all.
	If it's a movie that I haven't seen, I will be the first to tell you.
	I get asked all the time about movies I haven't seen, and I would not mumble through a movie and try to analyze a movie I haven't seen.
	So I'd have to hear what movie it is.
	But just to wrap up, What you were originally asking me, I was very impressed with this.
	I wrote Cinema Symbolism II, which just got into more mythology, numerology, astrology, archetypes, tarot embodiment going on in these popular movies.
	And there's even more movies I'm talking about.
	I'm actually writing Cinema Symbolism II right now.
	I'm doing this concurrently with this other book on Freemasonry I'm writing.
	When I was doing Cinema Symbolism, I wanted to get into the Harry Potter material and the C.S. Lewis material.
	It was too daunting.
	It was too much.
	The book would never have ended.
	So I excised that out and I'm doing Cinema Symbolism 2.
	But Cinema Symbolism 1 is out right now.
	Okay.
	So are you able to take any of the, in other words, which Spielberg movie did you study and would you be able to talk about?
	I mean, are we talking about as a producer, a director?
	I'll just give you the movies that I go over in Cinema Symbolism.
	It might save some time.
	I do The Exorcist.
	I do The Omen Trilogy.
	I do some of the Egyptian symbolism and some of the numerology of Back to the Future.
	The James Bond material, which is all Aleister Crowley.
	What's some of the other ones I do?
	Wizard of Oz, which is very Gnostic and secret society.
	Alfred Baum, who wrote that, was in Madame Blavatsky's Theosophy Movement.
	And you have a lot of political allegories going on in that.
	Black Swan, very alchemical, some unique numerological reference in that as well.
	That's just some right off the bat.
	There are others I talk about just in general.
	Horror movies, you know, Dracula, which has some very deeper meanings to it.
	Frankenstein monster, which is Hebrew Kabbalah.
	Okay, and in terms of Dracula having deeper meanings, what deeper meanings are you referring to?
	Well, with Dracula, Bram Stoker was a member of, I mean, you get into the whole Vlad the Impaler thing, and Dracula being this, you know, this somewhat is well-known, and Dracula being the symbol for the transmission of disease and, you know, the exchange of bodily fluids, that's somewhat well-known.
	Bram Stoker was a member of a secret society called the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn, and what you had going on with Dracula is you had this deep undercurrent This ties into Blavatsky's Theosophy, which was very popular at the time at the writing and publishing of Dracula.
	You have the entire idea of Eastern mysticism Intruding on Victorian Christianity.
	That's really the underlying theme going on in Dracula.
	It's very subtle, but you have Dracula as this emblem of Eastern mysticism, and of course Blavatsky was from Russia, and you have the idea of theosophy intruding and attacking What about just the notion, pure and simple, of power over others through the drinking of blood?
	Well, right.
	With the vampire, this ties into the You know, the exchange of bodily fluid.
	It was rumored that Stoker had syphilis, and he was angry about it.
	So you have, you know, Dracula, you know, transforming the people, the English Victorian Christians, into vampires and making them, you know, part of his little coterie.
	And it's really, the idea behind it is, it's the attack.
	To me, at any rate, the idea was what I think Stoker was trying to convey.
	He does this very well.
	Again, it's Eastern mysticism coming into and intruding on Victorian Christianity and Victorian values.
	Okay, what about Indiana Jones?
	Did you look at those movies?
	Yeah, I mean, the Indiana Jones movie is kind of unique in that it's not one that I took on in cinema symbolism, but I found it unique in that, and someone else was asking me about this not too long ago, the idea of the Ark of the Covenant being placed in Egypt.
	I thought that was kind of unique by Spielberg that, you know, and Lucas, I think Lucas also was involved with that movie.
	The idea of the Ark of the Covenant Which, you know, which is critical, believe it or not, is actually in part of the royal arch ceremony on the York Rite, the lost word of a master mason is actually on top of the Ark of the Covenant.
	But you had the Ark of the Covenant in Egypt, and I couldn't help but start to speculate on this, that maybe, you know, there's this whole theory of thought, and I get into it in the Royal Arch of Enoch, and I get into it in cinema symbolism, with the whole Judaic Christianity origins being Egyptian in nature.
	In fact, the Judaic Christianity is just a parallel of the ancient Egyptian religion.
	I thought that could have been a very unique esoteric homage by Lucas and Spielberg by putting the Ark in Egypt as this premier icon of the Jewish religion, as maybe an esoteric reference to Christianity and Judaism's true Egyptian roots.
	Have you ever heard of the Ark of the Covenant being referred to as actually a portal?
	I'm sorry, I didn't catch that.
	Say again, please?
	Have you ever heard of the Ark of the Covenant ever being referred to as a portal?
	Well, not necessarily.
	I know in the movie, they open it and all hell breaks loose.
	But in traditional history, it's allegedly the contents.
	The contents are the smashed tablets and Moses' staff.
	Whether the thing even actually existed, that's even debatable as well.
	Certainly, yeah, I mean, you could definitely craft an argument that it's a portal, and I mean, that was part of it in the movie, wasn't it?
	He wanted to use it to try to communicate to God.
	Certainly possible.
	Okay.
	Okay, well, let me see.
	Now, I know we've been going for about a little, almost a little under like an hour and a half or so, and I do have some people in the chat with questions, so I will encourage the people who are listening live to put their questions in the chat, and I will see if I can ask them.
	Do you mind taking questions from the chat?
	I have no problem with it whatsoever.
	Okay, great.
	Uh, and, um, actually I wanted to ask you about one last movie before I do that, which, um, I'm trying to remember the name of it.
	It, it's, uh, it has to do with, um, it's, it's shot in England and, um, gosh, I'm, I'm trying to remember the name of it.
	Uh, but I guess I'll have to go to the questions and then maybe I'll, it'll occur to me, but it's a, It's a very recent movie, and I just want...
	So do you go to movies often?
	Do you see the updated movies and so on?
	Yeah, I go to the movies occasionally.
	I'm much more a fan of home entertainment.
	I have a Blu-ray player here and a huge TV screen.
	That's how I do most of my movie viewing.
	And certainly, when I'm analyzing these movies, I can tell you, Carrie, that it's more than one viewing, and it is constantly pausing it, going backwards, forwards...
	Making notes, things that happen at the end can refer very subtly to something at the beginning.
	And it definitely takes me more than one viewing.
	If I go to see the movie in the theater, I'm usually just watching it for an enjoyment.
	If I'm analyzing it, I've got to have, you know, a legal pad in front of me and, you know, put it on Blu-ray or DVD or something and pause it, go back.
	And, you know, even when I'm writing this, I'll be writing and thinking, wait a minute, did this person say this correctly?
	Or am I, you know, do I remember this correct?
	So I'll have to go back, throw the movie in, you know, and start watching that scene again or something like that.
	So it's, you know, just, you know, for what it's worth, it takes me more than one viewing.
	But yeah, I do most of my movie-wise.
	I like going to the movies, but I do most of the analytical part on my Blu-ray player and my flat screen.
	Okay.
	So have you been analyzing any recent movies?
	It depends on how you define recent.
	You know...
	21st century, sure.
	Recent, 10, 15 years, sure.
	Something that may have come out last week, maybe not.
	I haven't seen it yet.
	But I try to keep up and I try to keep it timely.
	I'm doing the Hobbit movies in this new cinema book.
	So I've seen the first two of those.
	I haven't seen the third one yet.
	I did all the Lord of the Rings material in Cinema Symbolism 1.
	So yeah, I mean, I watch recent movies.
	I try to incorporate them if I find something.
	But again, you know, I would have to see the movie in full and watch it several times to, you know, be convinced that perhaps this is conveying something more than meets the eye.
	Okay.
	What about the James Bond movie?
	So it appears that I'm not sure if this is correct, and actually the movie I was looking for was Kingsman, The Secret Service.
	Have you looked at that?
	I know what movie you're talking about.
	I have not seen it.
	Okay, well, it would be very interesting to hear your take on some of the symbolism in that movie.
	But since you haven't seen it, in terms of the James Bond movies...
	You know, your worldview seems to exclude sort of a darker agenda on the part of people who are Freemasons and are Masons and members of secret societies, it seems.
	Would that be accurate?
	No, I'm aware of it.
	I don't exclude it.
	I just don't buy into every person coming along saying they're Illuminati and this and that and reptile people and this and that.
	You know, if I see hard evidence of it, I talk about it.
	And, you know, I've got to do research on it, and, you know, I'm certainly aware of it.
	Okay.
	You know, but like I said, you know...
	Well, the reason I ask that question is because I wanted to ask you about the James Bond movies and whether or not, you know, the symbolism that you see within the James Bond movies indicates any particular sort of...
	Is there any revealing aspect that Ian Fleming might have been trying to tell the public using that symbolism?
	Oh, sure, sure.
	Ian Fleming during World War II worked in British counterintelligence, and one of the people that worked for him was Aleister Crowley.
	Aleister Crowley, his whole life, was a double agent for the British Crown.
	This is why Crowley is so hard to pin down, because you don't know what's an act and what isn't.
	And Fleming, I mean, there's all kinds of tales with Fleming and Crowley.
	Crowley wanted to interview Rudolf Hess.
	When Rudolf Hess flew to Scotland on the Bosch peace effort, Crowley went to Fleming and wanted to perform Goetia magic in front of him and said, hey, let me conjure some demons in front of this guy.
	And, you know, You know, we're scared as kind of getting to talk about the Nazis, you know, fascination with astrology, maybe we'll figure something out.
	Fleming was very impressed with this idea and went to Churchill with it and was put down, it was vetoed.
	But you get into this again with Crowley, you know, and you get into this whole dark thing with this.
	I mean, Crowley, you know, used to throw these dinner parties.
	I'll get to the James Bond in a minute, but this is really fascinating.
	This is coming out more and more.
	I mean, this is fascinating.
	Crowley used to throw these dinner parties For people, and what he would do is he would cook these really hot Indian foods like curries and vindaloo's, and he would spike it with mescaline and psychotronic drugs, LSD. This has always been written off as Crowley being Crowley, and this is the great beast being the great beast being 666 and Crowley's shenanigans and this and that.
	It turns out that Crowley was actually being put up to this I was recording the reactions of these people, and was recording the reactions of an unsuspecting dinner crowd on psychotronic drugs.
	And the person that actually seems to be behind this was none other than a Freemason named Winston Churchill.
	So, I mean, if we're getting into the dark side of things, I mean, there is part of it for you.
	I mean, and again, another thing is, when Crowley was in America, the FBI, J. Edgar Hoover, who was a high-breaking Freemason, refused to investigate Crowley.
	I mean, you had Crowley doing all this espionage activity For the British.
	I mean, he claimed to be working for the Germans, but he was actually working for the British.
	And Crowley, of course, was bisexual.
	And Hoover actually refused to investigate Crowley.
	And the theory is that Hoover was going to be outed by Crowley as a closet homosexual.
	So you had Hoover.
	I mean, you know, you want to get into the dark side of Freemasonry.
	Look no further than J Edgar Hoover.
	I mean, this was a guy who was in the Scottish Rite.
	I mean, let's be brutally honest.
	I mean, this guy's...
	You know, record on civil rights is dubious at best.
	So, I mean, I'm very, very cognizant of all this.
	Getting back to Fleming and Crowley, I mean, Fleming was heavily influenced by the occult via Crowley.
	I mean, you have another guy involved in this circle, I mean, Dennis Wheatley, who was also involved with counterintelligence during the war.
	Wheatley wrote a book, a novel called The Devil Rides Out, and in this, There's a black magician in this named, excuse me, Mokata.
	And there's a movie made by it.
	Hammer Studios makes a movie with this, starring Christopher Lee and Charles Gray.
	Charles Gray plays the Mokata character.
	And it's clearly Crowley.
	I mean, it's without question.
	Years later, Ira Levin in Rosemary's Baby actually pays homage to Wheatley.
	You know, he names the black magician in Rosemary's Baby Mercado.
	It's the same name frenetically.
	It's Mercado, Mercado.
	So you have that going on.
	So with Fleming, with Crowley, you have this whole thing with James Bond, with the 007 being the reference to John Dee.
	This is the sigil that Dee used to sign his signature to, of course, espionage correspondences to Queen Elizabeth I. It was two circles with a line over and down.
	It was supposed to symbolize eyeglasses.
	It's 007, meaning he was her eyes in the field with his correspondence.
	His correspondence was for her eyes only.
	And then you have, I mean, you have, you know, within James Bond, a lot of these Bond stories are based on Fleming's work in the war.
	I mean, you have very alchemical and occult themes going on in these stories.
	I mean, you have the Illuminist You have Blofeld, who wants to take over the world.
	You have the guy who wants to perfect alchemy Goldfinger.
	I mean, his first name, Ark.
	AU is the chemical or alchemical symbol for gold.
	He has the symbolic Philosopher's Stone, which is the nuclear dirty bomb that he's going to detonate in Fort Knox and transmute the gold to be worthless, thereby making his gold worth more.
	You've got the dragon, Hugo Drax.
	Yeah, I mean, then you've got Thawne, who gets the piece of wisdom from the Hermes Trismegistus wizard, which is Always, you know, the miraculous gadget that winds up saving his life.
	Bond, of course, encounters the evil villain.
	Can't defeat him until he has the...
	This is what the Rosicrucians call the alchemical wedding of the sun and moon.
	He always has the hookup with the Bond girl.
	Then he's equipped spiritually to go on and defeat the villain.
	I mean, it's the same story over and over again.
	So, I mean, yeah, I mean, you know, you really have a lot going on in the occult world of Ian Fleming, influenced Hello?
	Hello?
	Hello?
	Okay.
	Never fails when we talk about James Bond that we get cut off.
	As people will know when I talk to...
	To Mike Sparks, who is something of an expert on those stories as well.
	Well, let me try to get him back on the phone.
	Hold on.
	I believe I'm still online.
	Yeah, it looks like the men in black got me.
	That's right.
	Well, the minute you start talking about...
	Ian Fleming and James Bond, they seem to want to interfere.
	I've got another witness, Mike Sparks, who talks about these stories and the link-ups.
	I'm just looking in the chat to see if there's anything here, and I want to make sure that if someone could type into the chat that you can still hear us and that we are still live now that I've called.
	Robert Back, if you could just let me know that you can hear us and that we are still live.
	Okay, so it looks like that's okay.
	So, in terms of Ian Fleming, James Bond, all of those stories, Do you take anything with you?
	Because I can't help but feel that if you have this kind of knowledge that you're writing books, that there's a certain level of responsibility in light of what's really going on on planet Earth.
	That this information and this knowledge is being used in a very dark way, devious way.
	And so I'm wondering, how is it that you sort of, you know, how do you sleep at night?
	How do you figure that knowing this information intellectually and yet knowing that there's a great portion of, say, the ruling class, if you will, and maybe you just don't agree with this, so that's That's basically sort of more a denial that allows you to kind of have an ease of mind.
	But in essence, you know, is there no responsibility involved in what you're doing?
	And with this level of responsibility, because knowledge brings with it responsibility, are you sort of only seeing this as something for yourself?
	Are you disclosing information because you feel that if you disclose this side of it, That you will help people understand it?
	You know what I'm saying here?
	I think so.
	I sleep very well at night.
	I wrote the book.
	It was 20 years of my life.
	People have asked me, how can you write a book exposing all this?
	Don't you get in trouble with the Freemasons?
	No.
	You can write books about the history of Freemasonry.
	It's symbols.
	It's symbolic interpretation.
	The only thing they frown upon is they don't want you talking about the past words and past scripts.
	Things like that, tokens of recognition of what they are called.
	So, I mean, I was very happy with the way the book came out.
	I, you know, wanted to share this information that I was finding out.
	I sleep very well at night.
	I don't dispute that there can be a dark side to this.
	I think there can also be a light side to it.
	And certainly dissemination of wisdom I think is always a good thing.
	And, you know, it's the same thing with the movies.
	I mean, I'm fascinated by history, both light and dark.
	I don't censor it.
	I take it all together.
	And I think, you know, I guess for me personally, just being involved In Freemasonry for 18 years, you know, I understand the skepticism.
	I understand the knocks against it.
	I really do.
	I just don't see this overarching sinister hand involved with it.
	Certainly people have used it for dark purposes.
	People who have been Freemasons have been pedophiles, have been evil people.
	I do not dispute this.
	And, you know, when you have a group with 6 million people, bad apples are going to get involved with this.
	This is irrefutable.
	You would find this with any group under the sun.
	And it's the same thing with the movies.
	When I was doing this, I was just fascinated by what I was seeing on the screen.
	I just couldn't believe that these movies and some of the lengths these directors and producers would go to to incorporate this stuff.
	You know, it's like playing, for me personally, I mean, I don't know if it's the answer you're looking for, but when I watch a movie and I begin to pick up on this stuff, for me, and this is the way I've answered this question before, it's really like, for me, playing a game of symbolic chess I feel like I'm being challenged by these guys.
	And I'd really like to try to decode the movies and break them down and find out if it's alchemical or if it's mythological, if it's numerological.
	But even doing this, I mean, I don't necessarily, you know, ascribe, you know, just because something's incorporated, it's encoded, it's somewhat being kept secret.
	I just don't necessarily...
	You know, unilaterally ascribe a sinister motive behind it.
	There can be, of course.
	But, you know, I think some of it's very beautiful and sublime, personally.
	Okay.
	Okay.
	Fair enough.
	All right.
	Have you ever heard from anyone that Crowley may still be alive?
	No.
	That's a new one on me.
	I mean, if he's alive, he's going to be up there.
	My understanding is he died in 1946-47, around the age of 75.
	I have no knowledge that Crowley is still alive.
	I mean, my goodness gracious, he'd be...
	I don't know how old he'd be at this point in time.
	Okay, well, you're not aware that the Nazis might have perfected reverse aging?
	No, I'm not aware of that.
	Okay.
	And have you studied things like the Fourth Reich?
	Are you aware of Jim Mars, for example?
	Yes, I know who Jim Mars is.
	I have several of his books on the Kennedy assassination, and I am familiar with some of the interest in Nazi Germany, in the occult and mysticism and things of that nature.
	Okay, but have you ever gone down that road in terms of study?
	I mean, I've studied...
	I guess, have I studied the Nazi fascination with the occult and mysticism?
	My answer to that is, yes, I have.
	Oh, you have?
	Okay.
	Are you aware of the works of Joseph Farrell?
	That name does not ring a bell to me.
	Okay.
	Okay, well, if you studied, you know, the Nazi sort of preoccupation with the occult, what do you make of it?
	Oh, I think that they were, especially people like Himmler and, you know, some of the hierarchy weren't so much as interested, but clearly Hitler was interested in this.
	Himmler was probably the main driving force with it.
	Yeah, I mean, and they definitely seem to have somewhat twisted the teachings of Madame Blavatsky around to fit this Aryan ideology, that there was this master race.
	This comes clearly out of the world of Blavatsky.
	I don't think it was what Blavatsky intended.
	I know she's controversial, but I can't imagine she ever imagined what the Nazis did to it.
	I mean, a lot of her works were twisted by German occultists like von Liszt, von Liebenfeldt, people like that.
	And then you had Goebbels, who was really into Nostradamus, things like that.
	So yeah, I mean, you know, a lot of the whole SS thing with the skull and crossbones, that's very occult in nature.
	The whole black, you know, uniform, you know, Himmler was basing the temple, the Okay.
	What about in your own practice?
	I wouldn't know exactly what you guys do, but based on the work of Crowley, the idea of conjuring a demon, for example, to do your will.
	Do you get involved in doing something like that?
	I have never performed magic of that sort.
	I know I have studied it.
	I have researched it very extensively.
	Me, personally, I have never attempted to conjure a demon, and I wouldn't recommend it based upon what I have read.
	I know Crowley was into it, and I am very familiar.
	I have researched this extensively, but, you know, it's not something I've ever done.
	Okay.
	Alright, well, I think that that kind of covers, at least for the moment, all the questions I can think of.
	And I do see a couple questions in the chat, but I think we've already answered them, so I hesitate to ask them again.
	Someone is asking, you know, do you need permission from them to write the...
	Well, you didn't really write the Ena book, but I guess what they mean is to write the book you wrote.
	And you kind of just answered that, but do you want to elaborate on that?
	Did you get any kind of permissions whatsoever?
	Right.
	No, I'll go over it.
	No, I did not get any permission whatsoever.
	When you join...
	The Truth of the Matter, Terry, in 2015, these rituals...
	The monitors that contain these rituals are online.
	You could find this with a simple Google search.
	I'm sure Duncan's Masonic Monitor is online.
	You could find this stuff out, these passwords, these grips, things like this.
	I would even go so far as to say this is all public domain at this point in time.
	But when you join a Blue Lodge and you go through the rituals, you take an oath and you promise not to divulge what's going on in the ritual.
	You know, the past words and the past scripts.
	You've had Masonic writers, such as Albert Mackey, say, look, we need books on Freemasonry.
	It's okay to write about the ritual.
	It's okay to write about the symbolic interpretation.
	It's okay to write about the philosophical, symbolic interpretations in the history, and yada, yada, yada.
	What is frowned upon is they don't want you giving away, like, the passwords and the handshakes, things like that.
	These are called tokens of recognition.
	That's frowned upon in Masonry.
	When I wrote the book, I did not mention any of the passwords or the handshakes.
	There are a couple times when I have to mention the substitute Word of God and the Word of God, which is recovered in the Royal Archivianoth Ceremonial, which is completely ceremonial.
	It's not the real name of God.
	It's just used for ceremonial purposes.
	But I didn't write it down.
	I just used the initials.
	That's as close as I got.
	But again, this material in 2015 could be routinely found online.
	But just because of my Masonic oath, I did not divulge it in the book.
	But I do get into the symbolic interpretations of the ritual and the histories and the philosophies and things like that.
	Okay.
	Let's see.
	Someone's asking, are Enoch's pillars the pyramids?
	No, not that I don't think so.
	Someone heard this before.
	The pillars of Enoch are two pillars that he inscribes sacred wisdom on.
	This is at least in the Masonic tradition, that he inscribes this wisdom on, that he gleans from these interactions with archangels and watchers from his journey in the afterlife.
	One pillar contains the liberal arts and sciences, and the other pillar contains mathematics.
	In the Royal Arch, I guess you would call it the underlying history of it.
	In the ritual, this treasure vault containing the pillars and the sacred word is discovered by temple builders.
	In the underlying philosophy, the vault has already been penetrated by two people.
	The first person is a Hellenistic wizard known as Hermes Trismegistus, who penetrates the vault, pronounces the name of God correctly, and restores the seven liberal arts and sciences back to mankind.
	The other character is a Greek mathematician known as Pythagoras, who goes in and has his eureka model.
	Eureka, I have found it, right?
	Pronounces the name of God correctly and restores the mathematics pillar and mathematics back to society, back to the world.
	So the pillars within the Masonic tradition are two pillars that contain esoteric wisdom.
	And I'll just add real quick that this is not to be confused because I specifically get into this in the book.
	This is not Yachin and Boaz, the two pillars of the Blue Lodge, J and B pillars.
	The pillars of Enoch are something else.
	Okay.
	Well, at this moment, I think we have been going for two hours, and that's usually the length I try to keep to for these interviews.
	But I do want to give you a chance to talk about anything that we haven't touched on that you would like to say.
	and you've been really excellent at replying to every question and seem like you've got a really good, open sort of, at least intellect towards everything that you're doing and a positive sort of approach.
	Is there anything you'd like to say about anything?
	Well, first off, I'd like to just say thank you, Carrie, for having me on Project Hamelot.
	I really appreciate you having me on.
	I thought it was a tremendous show.
	I try to give honest answers as best I can.
	And, you know, I thought you were very fair, and I appreciate it, and I'll gladly come back on if you ever wanted to have me back on.
	Perhaps some of my other books come out.
	Just to finish off, again, thank you.
	And if you're listening and you were interested in what I had to say and you're interested more in my books and about me, just please visit my website.
	It's www.robertwsullivaniv.com.
	My name is Robert W. Sullivan IV. So my website is robertwsullivaniv.com.
	Links there to my YouTube channel, other podcasts I've done, social media, Twitter.
	You know, if you have any questions about me or you want to know more about me and my books or links to buy them, please just go visit that.
	Visit that website.
	That's really the easiest way.
	And thank you, Carrie, for having me on Project Camelot.
	I thought it was a tremendous show and I would have no problem coming back on if you ever wanted to have me back on.
	Okay.
	Excellent.
	Thank you so much and it's very likely we will have you back.
	So...
	So thank you again, and thanks everyone for listening, and this will go on to YouTube sometime between today and tomorrow, all things going as planned, and they stop the attacks on my website, hopefully.
	So, anyway, take care.
	Thank you again, Robert, and thanks everyone for listening.
	Thank you, Carrie.
	Okay, bye-bye, and good night.

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