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Feb. 19, 2015 - Project Camelot

01:35:11

PROJECT CAMELOT: JIM NICHOLS : MAGICIANS OF NASA

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	Okay, we're just about to go live here with Jim Nichols and this is Carrie Cassidy from Project Camelot.
	So welcome Jim Nichols and it's great to be here with you tonight.
	This is a fascinating topic and I'm sure you have all kinds of stuff to share with us.
	I've made a poster for the event and part of the poster is actually your painting.
	is worth noting and an excellent painting it is.
	Jim is an artist, for those of you that don't know that, and so I just want to draw your attention to that.
	Now, he has a very interesting background, and what I'm going to try to do...
	Let's see if I can grab it here.
	Basically, he's an artist, a researcher, and an author, as well as a filmmaker.
	You've put together a number of documentaries on the web, haven't you, Jim?
	Yes.
	And it's because of one of your documentaries that I actually have called you and tried to organize this tonight because basically you were covering some of the, well, what I call the Richard Hoagland background in terms of the magicians of NASA. That was sort of an appointment we had with Richard Hoagland that never...
	Actually got off the ground.
	Not sure why.
	And he's been invited actually to join us tonight, but was not available.
	So maybe we can get to this place at some point in the future and try to get him involved.
	because it's a very fascinating discussion, needless to say, when somebody gets into what some might call the occult history of NASA.
	And so that's what we're going to be talking about with Jim tonight.
	But before we do that, what I wanted to do was just run through your bio quickly.
	I hate having to do my own bio.
	But yeah, I've been kicking around the UFO research field since 1980.
	And I got connected with it through a UFO researcher, the late Wendell Stevens, because I was doing UFO art for him.
	And originally about the Billy Meyer UFO contact case.
	And I thought that was so fascinating.
	And I just...
	That was like taking the red pill in the Matrix, and I've been going down the rabbit hole ever since.
	So yeah, I started out doing UFO illustrations, and then I got into some TV work here with a local talk show here in Tucson for seven years.
	About UFOs.
	And then after that, I thought, well, with the technology that went through computers and so forth, I started to discover I could make my own documentaries, which has been great fun.
	And it combines my artistry and it combines creative writing and media work all in one big enchilada.
	And so that's where I've evolved to at this point.
	So I have my website.
	I've got eight videos linked on ufotv.com.
	YouTube that you can watch, or you can read the blogs.
	If you don't want to watch the videos, read the blogs.
	I've got, I think, 14, 15 blogs on my website that cover the same material.
	So yeah, it's been quite an odyssey reaching to this point now.
	Absolutely.
	And according to your bio that you've got on my website, you say you spent about 30 years investigating this area.
	So you're pretty knowledgeable at this point, I would say.
	Yes, yes.
	I had two extraordinary mentors in this field.
	One was Wendell Stevens, like I mentioned, a retired lieutenant colonel from the Air Force.
	And the other is a dear friend of yours, Bob Dean, Robert O. Dean.
	Yes.
	Former Command Sergeant Major, United States Army.
	And he's a very, very dear friend.
	I was very close with Bob for many years.
	And he was great inspiration.
	I can't tell you how much inspiration he's been for me to follow this path of research.
	Absolutely.
	Yes, he's a lovely man and he's getting up in age.
	I'm afraid that we don't get to be in contact with him as much as we used to simply because of his health issues.
	Right.
	But I know that you were a good friend of his and...
	And actually, we've gone out to dinner and sat around talking about all things UFO, you might say, right?
	Right, right.
	So that's been great.
	Well, at this moment, what I'd like to do is move over to the actual topic and talk about...
	Sort of an introduction to the topic that what you would say and and I I think that your video I do want to say that your video I think is a great introduction to this topic so we can it is linked I think I put a number of links at the bottom of your bio on my website so people can find that on the front page of Camelot but but For now,
	why don't you talk a little bit about the magicians of NASA, that topic, and how you think the whole thing started, if you will.
	How can you talk a little bit about this?
	This is such a gigantic thing.
	Before I start asking you questions, before I start cross-examining you.
	Okay, well, I invite your listeners and your viewers to go to my website and look at the...
	It's called The Aeon of Horus, The Occult History of NASA. And you can either read the blog or you can watch the video that I produced.
	Wow.
	Like I said, I've been involved in UFO research for 30 years, and it's only within the last year and a half that I stumbled onto this story.
	I saw Richard Hoagland's video that's on YouTube.
	Where he talked about this whole issue, and it was a presentation he did back in 1997, I think, when the original Pathfinder Mars mission was launched.
	And he talked all about the connection of NASA, National Aeronautics and Space Administration, with Aleister Crowley, famed Satanist, and Jack Parsons.
	John Parsons, who was the co-founder of JPL, Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena.
	And I thought, what in the world?
	How can there be a connection with Aleister Crowley, Jack Parsons, and NASA? I mean, this is just so bizarre and so far out.
	But I have to hand it to Richard Hoagland and both he and his co-author, Mike Barra, of Dark Mission.
	Well, they go into great detail about this connection.
	And this is really going down the rabbit hole because you start to look at not just NASA, not just the space missions, but the whole issue of ufology and its connection with the occult And demonology, and it gets right down to exactly what is the very fabric of reality that we experience here.
	So it's like, this is a gigantic topic.
	So what I did with the Aeon Horus and my blog and the video is kind of give you a thumbnail Disneyland version overview of what this story is really about.
	But like I said, it's a gigantic story.
	Well, wouldn't you say that, to some degree, it starts with Project Paperclip?
	Well, okay.
	To some degree, yes.
	Yeah, I mean, we're talking about, obviously, the occult was going on before NASA was created, but you've got to, for our purposes, we're starting with NASA, so we have to start at At the beginning points of when NASA was being created and formulated as an organization, it's a little known fact that NASA is actually a defense organization.
	In other words, it was planetary defense.
	It was always planned to be that.
	And many people don't know that about it.
	So do you want to kind of start off in that direction?
	And then, you know, there's no doubt that this goes back to Egypt, it goes back to the Anunnaki, Sitchin, and all of that.
	But for our purposes, at least to begin, can we start with Paperclip and how that became NASA? Ultimately, you know, those scientists went in many directions, but certainly the creation of NASA... Well,
	primarily Wernher von Braun and his extraordinary research into rocket design for the Third Reich in World War II. And what's interesting is how that whole project just got grafted onto the American Defense Department.
	We always think, well, it's just Wernher von Braun himself, but it was not.
	It was Wernher von Braun and hundreds of technicians who were designing V2 rockets for the Nazis during World War II Just packed up lock, stock, and barrel and came to work for the United States Defense Department, or more specifically, in the early years, the United States Army.
	The United States Army, the military, desperately wanted to get their hands on the V-2 rocket projects.
	And Wernher von Braun desperately wanted to build big enough rockets so he could hurl them into space.
	That was his great ambition.
	So it was a match made in heaven in that sense, but it also included, and this is very interesting, where you get into the Nazi secret society.
	The Nazi SS was a secret society, exclusive secret society, within the Third Reich.
	So it's like a breakaway civilization within the Third Reich.
	So it's like, most people think, well, you know, Nazis, Third Reich, it's all one thing.
	When in fact, it's really not.
	It's much more complicated than that.
	So the Nazi SS were comparable to...
	The secret societies like the Freemasons in our own country.
	And if you dig into the origins of the Nazi SS and the origins of the Freemasons and so forth, and even the origins of Aleister Crowley's black magicians, they all have a common bond with ancient occult Egyptian mythologies.
	This is black magic stuff that they take very seriously.
	And it's not for the general public.
	You actually have a convergence of three secret societies that were pretty much on the same page in an occult sense at the very inception of NASA back in 1960.
	Right.
	And just for people, just let me say here that Jim does not have a camera.
	So if you're wondering, you know, why we're not seeing him live, I'm afraid that he doesn't have a camera activated and ability to activate that.
	But we do have his picture here.
	And so he's part of the poster as well as what I'm trying to do right now, which is bring him on The screen and make sure that we're actually live as a result.
	Yes, it's working.
	Okay, so there you are.
	So at this moment, in terms of the...
	I don't know if you knew Von Karman.
	Were you familiar with Von Karman?
	He's a player in this, a serious player, but he was kind of a mentor from Caltech for Jack Parsons, as I recall.
	Okay.
	But he was around in the early days, I believe, of NASA and specifically of Jet Propulsion Lab, possibly also Caltech.
	Let me just say from my perspective, because I do have some background here.
	Originally, before Camelot, after I left the entertainment industry, I was actually working in communications as a contractor at JPL, which is Jet Propulsion Lab.
	And I was also very fascinated by the history that involved Pasadena, the occult magicians, the practicing magicians within JPL and NASA.
	That, of course, is never talked about.
	And then, you know, the whole lineage that goes back to Jack Parsons, because even the name JPL is actually Jack Parsons Lab.
	It was something of a joke that they named it that.
	But it was all surrounding his work as a rocket scientist, which I don't know if people are familiar with that, but that was part of it.
	And he was, in a certain sense, a protege of Aleister Crowley.
	And believe it or not, also, this gets into Scientology and And L. Ron Hubbard.
	They were sort of a threesome, if you will.
	Jack Parsons, L. Ron Hubbard, and Aleister Crowley.
	They were something of...
	Jack Parsons tended to be more the protege of Aleister Crowley, but he also interacted with L. Ron Hubbard.
	It is thought that perhaps it was the Scientologists who actually got involved in the death of Jack Parsons, but this isn't known for certain.
	So there were a lot of plots going on behind the scenes, and Those three men were also dealing with a woman who, and I forget her name, but she was...
	Marjorie Cameron.
	Yeah, she was involved with all of them and was supposed to be involved in this sort of what they called a great work, which is an alchemical sort of union, sexual as well, and that was supposed to generate, really create a portal into another dimension and also create a child that would then be born out of that union, so to speak.
	So this was supposed to be a magical act that they were involved in.
	All of this is written about in, I wonder if I can remember the name.
	Do you remember the name of the book?
	Something like Sex and Rockets or something like that.
	Yeah, that's Sex and Rockets.
	That's the story of Jack Parsons.
	Yeah, I'm not sure if that's the whole title, but it's close enough.
	So it gets into that.
	But a lot of people won't realize NASA's early beginnings in this sense.
	And Wernher von Braun, of course, is not necessarily sort of the angel that he is depicted as.
	And so do you want to talk about, I guess...
	You worked at JPL?
	Yes.
	Did they talk about Jack Parsons when you were there?
	No, no.
	But, you know, I wasn't part of the in crowd.
	Even, you know, at a fairly low level, you should have been aware of, you know, some of the rumors about Jack Parsons.
	Oh, definitely.
	Yeah, absolutely, the rumors.
	And so, you know, that made, that sort of piqued my interest at the time.
	I had other reasons for also, I had studied the cult, so I I knew the history and then I also connected with some people that we were trying to actually write a story about Montauk that involved some of the history of JPL, of Jack Parsons, of Crowley, etc.
	All of that also links up with the Montauk's experiments for those of you that don't know that.
	Did you know anybody at JPL who attended the Agape Lodge there in Pasadena, the OTO? No, I didn't.
	But there you go.
	So there's that.
	There were apparently all kinds of magical get-togethers late at night in the mountains around JPL. It's built into a mountain, for those that don't know.
	Yeah.
	So, at this moment, in terms of what you know, is there a chronology that you can go through for us?
	Yeah, let's go back to JPL and the origins of JPL and Jack Parsons, because that was just before World War II. That was before Wernher von Braun.
	Jack Parsons and a bunch of his buddies there from Caltech, who earned the name the Suicide Squad, would go out there into the Arroyo Seiko and experiment with rocket engines.
	And Jack Parsons was an expert with explosives.
	They laughed and said, you crazy fool, you're going to destroy yourself all these days.
	And eventually he did.
	But Jack Parsons and they were working on a shoestring, but they had Theodore von Karman's blessing from Caltech to work on these rocket engines.
	And they were successful enough that they got the attention of the Defense Department.
	So the Defense Department took interest and started to finance Parsons rocket projects there at Caltech.
	And I don't know if you've seen the pictures of Admiral Byrd's planes taking off from the aircraft carrier.
	When they flew over the Antarctic, they had jet-assisted takeoff.
	They had jet rocket jets mounted on each side of the fuselage of the plane to assist them taking off from the aircraft carrier.
	Well, that's Jack Parson technology.
	That jet-assisted takeoff, you're smiling Jack Parsons right there.
	So anyway, that's how he got involved with JPL and that's how, you know, the connection with JPL and the rockets and so forth.
	But at the same time, this very dashing, handsome young man with the Clark Gable mustache was also fascinated by the occult.
	And so he was making rockets for the Defense Department and he was also moonlighting as an occultist.
	And he got hung up with the Ordo Templi Orientis there in Pasadena.
	And he made such an impression on Aleister Crowley, who was the founder of the Ordo Templi Orientis, that they felt like Parsons was being groomed to be Aleister Crowley's successor.
	So it's like, wow!
	So you've got Jet Propulsion Lab on one hand, and High Octane Satanist on the other hand, and this incredible convergence.
	So then along comes this young man who became Jack Parsons' protege, who went by the name Freighter H for a while.
	And Jack Parsons was just totally knocked out over this young man's abilities.
	So Jack Parsons took him under his wing and the two of them started working on something that you had mentioned earlier, the Babylon working.
	Which involved sexual rituals there in the mountains and also in the Mojave Desert with a woman who came on board whose name was Marjorie Cameron.
	And allegedly they were going to create something called a moon child.
	Which is like a Rosemary's Baby on a vehicle for demonic entities or whatever.
	So that's basically the JPL, you know, Jack Parson story.
	And of course eventually JPL was profoundly influenced or was profoundly involved in the establishment of NASA. So after the war, you have this convergence of the black magicians at JPL, and then we brought on the Nazi black magicians from the SS via Operation Paperclip, and there's this convergence.
	And, of course, we also had Freemasons, a very powerful Freemason influence at the top echelon of NASA as well.
	So you have these three secret societies being very, very cozy at the top level of NASA. And apparently, if you talk to Richard Hoagland, it's like these guys had their own plans for what they wanted to do with the space projects.
	And that's exactly what they did.
	Well, okay, and this gets into an interesting area.
	I'm going to pull up this sort of NASA Apollo emblem because there's a lot of occult symbolism in this emblem.
	I don't know if you can see that because...
	I don't know if you can...
	Let me see if I can share my screen.
	I don't know if that will help.
	I think that might interrupt this flow.
	But at any rate, what I'm showing people are...
	It has a big A on it.
	And it's got two planets.
	It's got the Earth and...
	I don't know what this is supposed to be.
	It's gold, but I don't know if that's supposed to be sun, the moon, or what.
	But that's one such sort of depiction.
	And then there's also an Orion emblem.
	I mean, there's a lot of symbols that go along with the occult.
	When you talk about the occult of Nassen, and I would recommend, of course, Jordan Maxwell's interview with Camelot, In which he talks about some of that and certainly Jordan Maxwell's work in general, who is dealing with the symbolism, not just of NASA, but of course the cult throughout history and all over the place, on churches, etc., etc.
	But it's really plentiful with regard to NASA, in case you don't know that.
	Are you familiar with that and do you want to talk about any of that?
	Sure, let's talk about Apollo 11.
	If you look at Apollo 11, 11, 1-1, 1-1 is like the suggestive of the Masonic pillars, Joaquin and Boaz, and you recall the lander was called the Eagle.
	And the symbol for Scottish Rite Freemasonry is the eagle.
	And of course we know that Buzz Aldrin was, when they landed on the moon, assuming that they did land on the moon, Buzz Aldrin was doing a Masonic ritual inside the eagle,
	and his Masonic apron, which is now a relic, is on display at the Scottish Rite Temple in Washington, D.C. And Richard Hogan can wax very verbal,
	go into great detail about the Stellar alignments that were taking place at this specific time when Buzz Aldrin was doing this ritual on the moon, which was alignments with Orion, which is Osiris, and Sirius, which is the star Isis.
	So Buzz Aldrin was doing a ritual to honor the goddess, the Egyptian goddess Isis.
	So, you know, there's all kinds of very interesting, you know, arcane symbology involved in this.
	It's a secret language that only the initiates themselves understand.
	The general public could be oblivious to all of this.
	Absolutely.
	Well, there is also the...
	I just was putting a picture of Buzz Aldrin on the...
	Along with Armstrong and Collins and also the Apollo 11 decal on the screen for people.
	Actually, there was also...
	There's a link-up with Inanna, she's called, I believe, in terms of the Sitchin-Anunnaki link-up to ISIS. And there is an interesting...
	That's an interesting connection, I believe, with...
	And it may come directly from that.
	Do you have some thoughts on that?
	Well, Inanna and Semiramis and Isis are all kind of representational of the same goddess.
	So depending on your point of view, it's confusing.
	You think you're talking about multiple goddesses here.
	But from, I think, your most profound occult point of view, you're just talking about the same goddess here.
	And Isis relates to the star Sirius.
	So Isis, Inanna, Samiramis are all essentially interchangeable.
	Right.
	Well, I mean, what I kind of mean by that is it's interesting when you get these guys doing any kind of a ritual And wondering whether or not they think something is going to be attained by doing this.
	In other words, are they just going through the motions or as dark magicians in theory, what a dark magician does as opposed to a light magician is work with matter and attempt to gain their own will, to have it carry out their will also that involves power over others.
	So if you buy into that and you also notice that Buzz Aldrin, for example, is doing a ritual on the moon and doing some kind of sort of ritual involving ISIS, then the idea is that they think that that's going to attain something.
	That's going to...
	Substantiate something.
	That's a way of giving a nod in the direction of what, in Camelot's sense, might be considered at least one race that intends to try to rule Earth.
	And so you could say that they're giving a nod to their masters, not just to a particular woman, but to a whole race of beings.
	And if you look at it that way, it becomes...
	Quite a mystery and quite an interesting twist on what's really going on on planet Earth.
	Absolutely.
	And I think you've really hit on something here because at the heart of these secret societies, if you go back into the history of the Hermetica and so forth, it's that they understand that there is a universal...
	You know, quantum physics is just now starting to acknowledge that.
	But this is what the ancients knew.
	As a follow-up research, I started digging into the history of the Hermenica and the occult.
	I picked up a copy of a book by Manly P. Hall, The Secret Teachings of All the Ages.
	I'm just absolutely astounded how the ancients, the ancient civilizations, had such a profound understanding of quantum physics.
	They understood that the entire universe was a, and they referred to it as ether, an etheric energy field, and that you could manipulate this energy.
	You could, with rituals and sounds, And symbols and so forth, you could interact, you could manipulate this energy field to serve your own ambitions or your own interests.
	And, you know, in Western civilization, we've been taught that this is just nonsense, this mythology and so forth.
	But when you look at how much money was laid out, To send rockets to the moon.
	And it's like...
	This is such a huge, huge project.
	It tells me that somebody somewhere is taking this etheric occult energy concept very, very seriously.
	That this is real stuff.
	This is real magic.
	And it really works.
	And it's best to only...
	It's best that only the highest initiates of secret societies know about this stuff.
	Okay, well, there also is the link up between what is in essence the A for Apollo, apparently standing in for Asar.
	Which is, I guess, a designation for Osiris.
	And Osiris getting into Orion, getting into the Egyptian pyramids, where they're said to be a reflection of the belt of Orion, I believe, and so on.
	So there's an occult, even an energetic connection between space travel...
	To certain points and these...
	These points on Earth.
	And there's a triangulation.
	There may even be a torsion physics, that 19.1 connection that Richard Hoagland always refers to.
	Yeah, 19.5.
	And also having to do with the tetrahedron.
	In other words, we're talking about the things that make such travel possible within the matrix as we understand it.
	And occult magicians become aware of physics and the energetic connections between worlds, between dimensions, etc.
	So space travel is integral to this concept and so that's where it all reaches back to.
	In terms of your understanding, have you delved into the occult significance of Of, you know, of space travel, how they use these particular symbols, and what they believe they're going to sort of achieve by it.
	That's a good question for Richard Hoagland.
	I wish we had access to him tonight, because next year, in 2016, they have planned a robotic mission to an asteroid, and that mission is called, you know, just right up front, right in your face, it's called Osiris-Rex.
	Okay.
	You're calling this mission King Osiris.
	I mean, it's like, how subtle can you be here?
	But my question, especially for Richard Hovland, what would be so powerfully significant about landing a robotic probe On an asteroid, why would you call that Osiris-Rex?
	I mean, this is the king of the gods here.
	And so, well, what is so important about this particular asteroid?
	Or is it the asteroid itself?
	Or is the asteroid in some kind of really powerful configuration or lineup with the stars and so forth?
	Why would you call that Osiris-Rex?
	It's like, wow!
	If you start to get any concept of what Osiris means to these occult societies, it's like, this is the god of gods.
	And so, there has to be something powerfully significant in that.
	Right.
	And, you know, it is a bit strange.
	I mean, what I wonder is, what is the link-up also with the Nazis, for example?
	Because there's said to be, I guess, three factions that we're involved in, in terms of when you look at NASA, what I think Richard Hoagland refers to even, and did in one of my interviews with him, one that I do recommend highly if you haven't already seen it, But the magicians, the masons, and the Nazis.
	In other words, all three groups are involved in secret societies, and they're all intersecting in this one organization, which we call NASA, or know as NASA, for which Orion seems to be a primary sort of focus, and as such, Osiris is the god of That seems to supersede all others, as you're calling it.
	And Isis is the goddess.
	But nonetheless, what is the point?
	I mean, in other words, are they paying homage to a ruler?
	Because these are not deities.
	Certainly, the whole idea of deities is a strange one.
	Now, at least one of my whistleblowers, and actually a few others...
	Do talk about, for example, as many people will refer to the Earth, Gaia, as a being.
	Well, it is said that the other planets are also beings.
	And as such, they must be sort of talked to as beings in and of themselves.
	And so it could...
	I'm just sort of extrapolating here.
	It could reach back to something of that nature.
	Where we're actually drawing on that energy...
	People are, you know, magicians that are in NASA that are sort of naming their vehicles, stamping their vehicles with its various symbols, etc., etc., all to pay homage to this energetic and possibly this ruling race of beings is what it comes across as.
	Now, I don't know if it's that literally or not, but it certainly leans in that direction.
	What would you say to that?
	Well, you have to ask, and I don't have an answer for this, but we can both speculate together here that the gods and goddesses of Babylon or ancient Egypt or whatever are analogs to a civilization or an alien presence or alien intervention on planet Earth that's way older, that's far older than Egypt or Babylon.
	And if you get into the research of Manly Hall, he talks about The Egyptians and the Babylonians were actually recreating or trying to recreate a civilization that had destroyed itself thousands of years before Babylon or Egypt even existed.
	So these are like analogs to some extraterrestrial deities or whatever that have had a profound influence on planet Earth even before, you know, Recorded history altogether.
	Right.
	Well, possibly what one might think of as the father race.
	In other words, the founder race for humanity, or at least one of the founder races for humanity.
	That much seems very possible.
	It also sounds, at least for me, it sounds as though some of those beings are still sort of alive and And some of them are being communicated with directly in terms also with regard to, again, the planet themselves.
	In other words, the Orion constellation, a number of planetoids in that constellation, and so on.
	Well, you mentioned Orion.
	Yeah.
	You asked about the Nazis, and the Nazis were obsessed with the Aryan race.
	Well, is Aryan just a variation of the word Orion?
	Is the Aryans actually Orions, the parent race that actually came here long before Egypt and Babylon and originally established some kind of human civilization here?
	That they may have genetically engineered our civilization.
	Right.
	Well, also the notion that, in other words, if you plan to go out and terraform a solar system and stake your claim or put your flag in the ground, it behooves you to honor what the Native Americans call the ancestors, so to speak.
	So it appears that perhaps that's a kind of...
	Sort of energetic that they're trying to placate or pay homage to in order to make their mission a success.
	And also to say hello out there, we're your brothers, so don't shoot us down when we approach this planet or attempt to do some kind of landing or something.
	Or better yet, look at us, we are doing your bidding.
	What we are fulfilling here was originally your bidding from centuries before.
	And it's like we are honoring you by doing this.
	So I think you have to factor that in also.
	Absolutely.
	So, yeah, I mean, that gets into a whole other can of worms.
	In terms, I mean, certainly von Braun was at least ostensibly a Nazi, I believe, and von Karman may as well have been, of German descent, certainly.
	And what we're looking at are other scientists as well that are part of NASA, that have always been part of NASA. Some that may still be living today, and that gets into a whole time travel issue that I've had a whistleblower talk to me about.
	So it kind of is very fascinating in that regard.
	But in terms of your own video that you put out there, because I wanted to touch on some of those topics that you cover there, can you talk about some of the things that you cover in the video and areas of special interest to yourself?
	Well, okay.
	One of the things that I thought was fascinating was the Egyptian connection within NASA and a gentleman by the name of Dr.
	Farouk El-Baz.
	He was taken on board.
	This is the man that actually became one of the most powerful individuals within NASA concerning the Apollo landings.
	He was an Egyptian.
	He came on board with Belcom, one of the subsidiaries of NASA, I think in 1967, and then he worked his way into NASA, and he became the man,
	the single individual who picked out all the landing sites, who approved that final approval on all the photography, He was also a geologist, so he went out and trained the astronauts out in the field for the kind of rugged terrain they would have to deal with on the moon.
	And by the merest coincidence, his father, Dr.
	Farouk El-Baz, his own father, He was an expert in the ancient religions of Osiris and Isis.
	I said, you couldn't have picked a guy, you know, more in tune with the ancient Egyptian mythologies and the occult than Dr.
	Farouk El-Baz.
	So once again, you have this absolute honor for the Egyptian gods here at the highest levels of NASA. Right.
	Now, Dr.
	Farouk El-Baz is...
	I'm actually doing a search online while we're talking about him, and I am familiar with him.
	I've heard references to him.
	Apparently, in a sense, he would be the man who could...
	Possibly trump Jordan in terms of symbolism, if I understand it correctly.
	And he is the one who's responsible for all the symbols in NASA and sort of safeguarding all of that and deciding which symbols to use where.
	So that's an interesting connection.
	But on top of it, he's involved in something called the Center of Remote Sensing.
	I don't know if you are aware of that.
	He might be a very...
	I don't know if he's still alive.
	He was born, it says, in 1938, so that makes him quite elderly at this time, but it looks like his email and everything you could want to know about him is here.
	Kind of an interesting...
	You know, in other words, he's made a transition into the area of remote sensing, what I would call probably...
	In essence, remote viewing, etc.
	Well, I would say, you know, considering who his father was, he was probably already into that from the get-go.
	And that's why he was so valuable to the three occult societies at the highest level of NASA. He would have been the go-to guy for talking to the Egyptian gods right there.
	Right.
	And then it gets into his own lineage, and what is the symbolism of that?
	And how that fits into the story.
	In terms of NASA and what goes on there, I mean, you know, when you're dealing with the occult, you're not dealing with just one thing.
	So just because they use the occult, let's say, in symbolism, you know, they paint symbols, they pay homage, they do these rituals when they land somewhere, etc.
	It actually starts to, it's inevitable that it would pervade the agency itself.
	In all aspects, and that some of the top echelon would probably be, without question, people that were trained, for example, in remote viewing, that were, you know, possibly psychics in their own right,
	and that they're also doing magical rituals in association with some of the work they do, because we're dealing not just with the third dimension, And the material reality we recognize here, but we're also dealing with the fourth going into the fifth.
	So what we're talking about is sort of dealing with entities, demons, ETs of numerous races of ETs, and you're basically having to You're not just putting astronauts in a tin can and flying them out there.
	There's ample...
	I mean, of course, we're not even touching on the secret space program here.
	But the indications are that NASA has been, at least in the last 20, 30 years, pretty much a front organization, right?
	Well, I think the subtext here is that, yeah, what we see on the television, you know, Neil Armstrong stepping on the moon and so forth, that is for the public entertainment.
	And the subtext here is that, yes, there is a secret NASA, and it's of, by, and for the secret societies themselves, and whatever they find is strictly for their own, the satisfaction of their own secret societies, I guess.
	But let's go back and talk a little bit more about Aleister Crowley, because he's really the linchpin to all this.
	Because he was the one that claimed to make contact with extraterrestrials or extradimensionals.
	Way back, I think it was in 1909, when he and his wife Rose had a ritual inside the Great Pyramid.
	And that's what kind of kicked this whole thing off.
	Crowley He made contact with an extra-dimensional, extraterrestrial entity called IWAS, who dictated to Curley the Book of the Law, which was, you know, Curley's His book of Thelema.
	Anyway, so here you have Aleister Crowley believed that the only way that humanity was going to develop or advance was by contacting these kind of extraterrestrial entities.
	And so he did that, and Awos dictated the Book of the Law, and Crowley's whole The chat is saying that they are seeing us now.
	So hold on one second.
	I'm going to make sure that...
	Yeah, it looks like we are up online again.
	Okay, so we were just about to, I think, answer my question.
	So if we can just back up for one second.
	And in essence, you were saying that the information you have is that Crowley described the ET he was dealing with and that the description matches...
	Exactly.
	Right, right.
	Okay, now in terms of that, do you know how detailed he was about the description and can you actually cite where that is mentioned?
	Well, he did drawings of them.
	You can go online and find the drawings that Alistair Crowley did, and they look very, very strangely similar to your basic gray.
	Okay.
	Yeah, that's great for people, and actually I'll see if I can do that while we're talking here.
	So what else about possibly even, if you're aware of it, the relationship of Wernher von Braun, what he brought to NASA... And how he might have factored in with the magicians.
	Are you aware of his involvement in the occult, for example?
	Von Braun specifically?
	No, I can't.
	I have a different perception of Von Braun in that they said that, well, he was a Nazi, that he was an SS officer, but I dare anybody to find a picture of Wernher Von Braun in an SS uniform.
	Anywhere.
	I mean, there's so many photographs of von Braun throughout the war, and you just don't see him in an SS uniform.
	You have to understand that von Braun was what the Nazi SS wanted to be.
	Wernher von Braun was an Aryan-German aristocrat.
	He was already there.
	He says, I don't need to dress up in these silly black uniforms.
	I'm already what you think you want to be.
	I am that.
	And he struts around in his silly little hat and his leather coat, and you can see all kinds of pictures of him.
	Out there watching his rockets, and he was obsessed with creating rockets.
	If anything, Wernher von Braun was obsessed with putting men in space.
	He was obsessed with that before the war ever started, and he saw the Third Reich and building rockets for Adolf Hitler as a stepping stone to that ambition.
	And after the war, when he was project paper-clipped into the United States, that ambition did not stop.
	That continued.
	And he actually got to live out his dream, almost.
	Almost.
	His dream was not to go just to the moon.
	Warner Von Braun's dream was to go to Mars.
	So is there a connection between what Aleister Crowley was getting through his aliens about artifacts on Mars, or was it that Von Braun just wanted to go to Mars for the hell of it?
	I don't know.
	I don't have an answer for that, but I don't see Von Braun as so much the occultist as the other magicians within NASA. Von Braun was obsessed with just putting a man on Mars, and maybe he did.
	Maybe the secret NASA actually achieved that, I can't say.
	Yeah, well, according to my witnesses, certainly, not only did they achieve that, but we're there now and we have underground bases, etc.
	Now, I can say that there is the occult connection to Mars and to the Anunnaki and also to what Clark McClelland would talk about, which is the race from Aldebaran.
	And so it's often said that the Nazis were helped by a race of beings from Aldebaran.
	And I'm sure you're familiar with that history.
	Absolutely.
	But again, the race from Aldebaran, these are humanoid, sort of Nordic-looking, your typical Nazi type.
	At least that's how they're depicted.
	And so his drive to go to Mars may have been linked to being involved or interested in the Anunnaki roots of humanity and our relationship a la Sitchin, if you will.
	Right, right.
	But have you delved into that area?
	Yeah, funny you should ask.
	I just completed a second video and a second blog called Atlantis Rising.
	If you go to UFO TV, they have it listed as Ancient Alien Mystery Rise of the Anunnaki.
	I guess there was some kind of a problem with the title I had for it.
	Anyway, which is all about this.
	I got so involved with the secret societies and so forth and NASA, I said this has got to be just the tip of a much, much bigger story.
	And so sure enough, I've done additional research, which...
	You really need to talk to Joseph Farrell.
	Joe Farrell has done just a marvelous and incredible amount of research to put this together, but essentially what he's saying, I've tried to encapsulate in Atlantis Rising, is that there has been throughout the entire human history an attempt to recreate To recreate the high-civilization,
	the high-tech civilization that the Anunnaki had thousands of years before Babylon and Egypt.
	And that is what the whole epic of the human race is all about, is to recreate that society.
	So I generically call it Atlantis.
	I don't know what it was really called, but if you say Atlantis, people have a general idea what you're talking about.
	What I put forth in this new video and this new blog is that we have literally Literally recreated right now Atlantis here in the 21st century with our technologies, our mass weapons of destruction, our super-secret space technologies, transhumanism.
	The whole enchilada is actually A recreation of what the ancient Atlanteans had already had on this planet thousands of years ago.
	Okay, well, there's no doubt whatsoever that, you know, it's even said that there are many of us are reincarnated from Atlantis, from those times, and that we are at a critical juncture.
	In fact, Similar to Atlantis and simply the destruction of Atlantis.
	And we have some choices to make right now that surround all of that.
	So I would agree with you.
	I, you know, and someone I'm actually I've got a chat room going here.
	I'm able to see some of the questions people are asking.
	Someone is asking, why are we assuming the mystery school magic is black?
	And actually, we're not assuming that, or at least I'm not.
	I don't think you are either.
	But we are talking about some black magicians that are involved in some pretty dark areas.
	And I think that Aleister Crowley himself would refer to himself as a dark magician out of choice.
	Let me just define that.
	Sure, go right ahead.
	If you read the history of secret societies by Manly Hall, the original secret societies, the original esoteric teachings were not black.
	They were the highest aspirations of humanity.
	These are the highest esoteric spiritual aspirations of the human race, and it was the secret societies who took it upon themselves to protect and guard those secrets.
	However, the original Anunnaki were not such nice folks.
	And they knew how to manipulate the energies of the universe for dark purposes.
	So it's not that esoteric teachings in and of themselves are dark.
	It's just that a particular group that got involved, the planet Earth here, It was totally dedicated to dark manipulation of these energies.
	And so that's why we see a lot of that spillover in our contemporary society.
	And it's like we have to learn to recognize that.
	Discern the difference between light and dark so we can get back to accessing the lighter side of this energy.
	And it's like, you know, there's a yin and yang, there's a good side, the dark side, and you have to be able to discern the difference.
	Sure.
	Well, there are always two paths, and it is a sort of a union of opposites, in essence, on this planet.
	We do have black magicians and we do have white magicians, just like we have dark witches and white witches.
	We're really talking about a war between good and evil and a choice between a certain path versus another path.
	There are secret societies now that, in fact...
	Some of the magicians of NASA may be fully, you know, fledged, involved in those, which involve ruling the planet and ruling it in the sense that we know of as the traditional Illuminati that involves the Rockefellers as the front men, in essence, the Bushes, and so on.
	If you look at the original Freemason...
	Founders of our country.
	The United States was founded right at the cusp between the time when Freemasonry, which had very high ideals, was taken over by the Illuminati.
	The Illuminati was a perversion of the ideals of Freemasonry.
	And George Washington, President George Washington, was the last Freemason president All the Freemason presidents that preceded him or followed him were Freemason Illuminati, that the Illuminati had managed to take control of Freemasonry all throughout Europe and eventually all throughout the United States.
	Well, I mean, there is also the role of the Vatican and the Catholic Church in getting involved in Freemasonry and taking it over and so on.
	Yes.
	So there's a long history there.
	The purposes of this particular conversation is not really to go into the history of Freemasonry or the Templars, although that would be a wonderful topic for a future conversation.
	Because that does directly involve all these secret societies.
	Yes, and what really goes on there?
	Part of the problem, I would venture to say, is that humans haven't completely got their spiritual act together, and that often they choose the dark path, sometimes even thinking they are on the light path, simply because they fall prey to more of their base desires and end up getting swayed.
	I think we're good to go.
	If you look at it, human ego is very, very easily seduced by the dark side.
	If you're coming from ego, you want to use whatever powers you can to gain whatever occult activities you want to involve yourself in to gain personal power.
	The whole thing is about personal power.
	Right.
	Although it doesn't need to be.
	In essence, the notion of an illuminated one is supposed to be a person who has reached enlightenment.
	Enlightenment is not involved in ego, and that would be actually transcending ego, but not discarding it either.
	So there's some confusion on that level.
	We have actually been going for about an hour and a half now, and so I know we schedule a certain time.
	We've got about a half hour to go, and we could ask...
	Answer some questions here from the chat if you'd like to.
	Jim, it's up to you.
	I can go back through and see what kind of questions were typed there.
	I can also ask the people that are here participating to put things in caps if you want a question answered by Jim.
	Is that alright if I start going down that list?
	Or do you have anything you want to add to this overall sort of discussion about the magicians of NASA? One thing I could say is, we're not naming names right here, but I can assume that some of the top leadership even to this day is heavily involved in being magicians, right?
	I would not be surprised.
	Okay.
	So is there any last things you'd like to add about this before we go to the questions?
	Yeah, one last thing, one last thought about the Nazis in Germany.
	You're aware of the Annenerbe Society?
	Yes.
	It was formed during World War II, which was a state funded, was funded by the Third Reich.
	It was an organization designed to study metaphysics for the purpose of gaining power.
	And if you want to really give yourself, it really gives you an idea of what the The flavor of what the Nazis within NASA were likely all about was a combination of technology and black magic.
	They wanted to use everything at their disposal, be it black magic or sophisticated super rocket technology.
	The Nazis wanted to use anything at their disposal to gain absolute power.
	And you think about Operation Paperclip and you say that mentality was grafted on to the American Defense Department that we will use the occult, we will use technology, we will use whatever it takes to gain absolute power.
	I would even extend that because it involves the secret space program and what their purpose is in going out into outer space.
	And one of the things that they decided was that they have a perspective that involves rule or be ruled.
	And so clearly they decided they wanted to be the ones who were in control and ruling.
	So they're all about sort of developing themselves in every way.
	And that involves creating what is in essence a humanity 3.0 with super soldier capability as well as the bells and whistles that are involved in technology.
	Superior technology, being able to stand up to any ET race to go out and, in essence, if we desire to, to take over planets on behalf of our race, whatever race they think they are part of.
	And that gets into a whole discussion in and of itself, because it's not all humans, okay?
	Well, that obsession with power, it really kind of defines the original attitude of the Anunnaki.
	And in my Atlantis Rising video, it puts forth the theory that The Anunnaki were in fact, are not indigenous to this planet, that they were marooned here, that they crashed and burned here, and they have been quarantined here ever since that original colony existed.
	And the whole point of, the whole arc of advanced technology, advanced weaponry and so forth, is to get themselves back to where they had the level of technology and weaponry that they had when they were originally isolated here or marooned here.
	So they can fight their way back into space and get back into the galactic war game that they were involved with to begin with.
	And so what you're saying is about rule or be ruled.
	That sounds exactly like the mentality of the original Anunnaki that came here.
	Okay.
	Now, thank you for that.
	Let's see.
	We've got some people who are asking questions.
	I'm going to just grab a few here if I can.
	What do you have to say about the developing discrimination between light and dark?
	It's always been, there's always been, I'm sure this is a strange kind of wording of a question, but I'm not sure what they mean there.
	I would assume, I mean, light and dark have always been at war with each other.
	That's the nature of the union of opposites.
	And there is a purpose behind it.
	I'm not sure what you mean by discrimination.
	So I'm not sure.
	Maybe the person could explain in another way.
	I don't know that we're discriminating, but even if you go back to the Bible, it says in the book of Corinthians, there is a constant war between light and dark here, and that we are just caught in the middle of it.
	And I think that's something to be said for that.
	Right, and developing ability to determine what is light and what is dark is certainly very, very important.
	That's the challenge, right.
	Yeah, that's part of the learning experience of even having a light and or dark sort of dynamic, good versus evil, however you want to frame that.
	Someone wants to know, how accurate is Jupiter Rising the movie?
	Is it any closer to reality than by how much someone is seeing?
	Have you seen the movie?
	That's a good question.
	I can't comment on that because I've not seen the movie.
	I know a lot of people are really excited about it.
	Have you seen it?
	I have.
	Actually, I was not that thrilled with it.
	I didn't think it really went to me.
	To too many places, I felt that there were some things in there that I thought were very heavily manipulated.
	It does show grays abducting and stealing energy and fluids from humans, so on that score it was accurate.
	And, you know, there's a heavy emphasis on a particular woman who's supposed to own Earth, possibly being symbolic of ISIS, if you will.
	I don't agree with that premise anyway, so that doesn't really float my boat, but, you know...
	I think there was a lot of fun graphics, you know, a lot of fun action scenes and whatnot.
	But I didn't think it was very deep, actually.
	But, you know, that's just my take.
	Let me see what else.
	I've seen the trailer a couple times.
	I wasn't terribly impressed, actually.
	Yeah, but in all fairness, you have to see the movie to really discuss it.
	But it's a good question.
	I mean, a lot of people are asking that.
	Let's see.
	Secret technologies that NASA might have traded for with ETs by chance.
	I think it says here.
	Wait, by channeling them with magic.
	So possibly the idea that NASA has been...
	In contact telepathically with various ETs and trying to channel technology.
	Any thoughts on that?
	No.
	That's purely speculative, but
	To be really specific though, it was in one of Curly's channelings with IWAS and LAM, the extraterrestrials, they made specific reference to what sounded like an artifact that was on Mars that shines like the sun on water and it was supposed to be somehow like an egg or something that they needed to recover or it was somehow linked to Horus,
	the Egyptian god Horus.
	It sounds vague enough to say, well, is this just a metaphor or is there actually some physical object on Mars That we need to go and recover.
	So then, lo and behold, in 1997, we send the quote-unquote Pathfinder probe to Mars, and Pathfinder just happens to be the Tibetan word LAMP. It means pathfinder, and LAM was the name of the entity that Aleister Crowley channeled that was talking about this.
	So he kind of put two and two together, so were they specifically going to look for this object that Aleister Crowley had channeled from LAM? Okay, very interesting.
	Yeah, quite an interesting distinction there.
	I'm not sure.
	It's not clear.
	As far as this very shines-like-the-sun kind of object on Mars...
	Have you heard anything more specific about the object?
	Is this something familiar to you?
	Have you ever heard of that reference?
	No, but if you look through some of the photographs of objects on Mars, there is one photograph that shows on a distant hillside, there isn't a shining object there.
	So I was like, okay, maybe that's what they were looking for.
	Possibly.
	All right.
	But also, if you go back and look at the Brookings report, the Brookings report, of course, suggested that if we discovered artifacts or extraterrestrials, that Western civilization would collapse because we couldn't emotionally handle it, which is kind of absurd.
	But then on the other hand, it goes on to specifically say artifacts on the Moon, Mars, and Venus.
	As if they already knew there were artifacts on the Moon, Mars, and Venus that they would like to go looking for.
	So it's like you have to kind of read between the lines and say, oh, what's really going on here?
	Yeah, absolutely.
	There are no aliens, therefore we can't discuss them kind of thing.
	You know, it's...
	How do you define aliens?
	I have a saying on my email that says, they said it was classified...
	But they couldn't classify it because it doesn't exist.
	And yet they classify it.
	So it's crazy.
	Okay, so let me see what other questions here.
	And just in reference to the channeling with magic, certainly if you've got magicians, they're harking back to the Nazis.
	We know that the Nazis...
	We use the Vril, you know, the sisters, you know, the very long-haired women who were channeling technology, in theory, from the Aldebaran to the Nazis.
	There's no reason to think they stopped there.
	In other words, once NASA got their hands on it, also got their hands in some of the...
	Scientists who were involved back in those days who might have been even part of those rituals.
	In other words, there's certainly a drive to pick up technology and get it wherever you could, crash retrievals here on Earth, or through telepathy, etc.
	So no doubt that this would certainly be an effort if you're involved in that, and you're involved in remote viewing.
	Absolutely, right.
	So all of those things go hand in hand.
	I think that's a Perfectly logical place to go and what they probably were involved in.
	Someone is asking, what lodges, images, or organizations have inspired the private space programs?
	I haven't done any research in that area, so I really couldn't address that.
	Right.
	Okay.
	Well, there is...
	What's his name?
	Robert...
	Oh, God.
	You know the guy in...
	I forget where he is.
	I forgot his last name.
	Anyway, yeah, I mean, there's more than one.
	There's also, of course, the guy who's involved in Virgin.
	I mean, there are a lot of private space programs.
	I don't know what they're using.
	Oh, Robert Bigelow, that was the person.
	He was very involved in a private, wealthy man who wanted to be involved in the secret space program and also in probably a corporate kind of enterprise of some kind.
	Probably doing it as well.
	We don't have access to their imagery, so I'm not sure.
	Does Jim have any personal experience with ETs that inspire your art? - No, not really.
	I was, especially at the outset, I was totally enchanted by the Billy Meyer story and the stories of the lovely lady from the Pleiades that visited here.
	I'd much rather investigate Pleiadians who seem to be much more friendly than these other aliens, the gray aliens or the extraterrestrials or the demons.
	I've gone down a path here in research that I never expected to pursue.
	No, I still like the Billy Meyer story.
	Whether it's true or not, that would be my ideal kind of extraterrestrial contact case or contact experience.
	And I'm still waiting for that one.
	Okay.
	Let's see.
	I'm supposed to ask you here, what do you think of Admiral Byrd and his diary?
	Did he go into Hollow Earth or a dimensional doorway?
	Well, speaking of secret societies, you know Admiral Byrd was a 33rd degree Freemason.
	And it's very interesting that all of his explorations, except for the Operation High Jump, were financed by the Rockefellers.
	And he took with him, he always had a contingent of people with him who were Freemasons, who were also Freemasons.
	And also in 1938, Admiral Byrd was invited to join the Nazis in their Neuschwanland expedition, which he declined.
	So I've always kind of wondered, was Antarctica, was that a competition between the Nazi SS and the American Freemasons?
	Because they both wanted to go down there to rediscover Atlantis.
	And whether they did or not is anybody's guess.
	But I don't know if you've ever seen the film, the documentary, The Secret Land, that was released by MGM in 1948, which covers the entire story of Operation High Jump.
	And in that documentary, there's absolutely no mention whatsoever of Nazis down there, or that Admiral Byrd, you know, had contact with inner-earth beings.
	However, in Admiral Byrd's diary, he says that on his last flight over the Pole, he was abducted for three hours by Nordic-looking entities from the inner-earth or the hollow-earth who spoke German.
	Now if you watch the movie, The Secret Land, on his last flight, he was delayed for three hours due to engine trouble.
	So what actually happened is anybody's guess, but I know that all of Byrd's records since 1947 have been classified.
	Okay, very good.
	So basically that's a movie called The Secret Land, 1948, and that's Admiral Byrd.
	So if people want to look that up, sounds like well worth the time.
	Without the Nazis, it's still an extraordinary video.
	It was a harrowing experience to go to the South Pole.
	Okay, let's see.
	How do you tell the difference between light and dark?
	someone wants to know?
	Oh, good question.
	You have to develop some intuitive skills, I think.
	If you can read energies, and I'm sure, Carrie, you can do that.
	I think...
	With a certain level of maturity with that, you can recognize light and dark energy.
	Yeah, I think that most people have an intuitive sense of what that is and what that means.
	What looks like light, if we're talking what looks like light and what looks like dark, can often be deceptive.
	So it's not just relying on the eyes, for example.
	Okay, let's see.
	Someone wants to say here, or is saying, Horus is the Egyptian equivalent to Apollo.
	Do you want to make any remarks regarding that?
	Hmm.
	No, I have not researched that.
	But Horus is the child of Isis and Osiris.
	So I'm assuming that, you know, Apollo is the son.
	You know, there may be a correlation between Apollo and Horus indeed.
	And for that, I think we need Jordan Maxwell and or Richard Hoagland to really say the symbolism.
	But assuming that Apollo starts with the A and so on, there is a reference certainly also to Marduk.
	And so there's also that sort of side.
	The whole pantheon of gods, you have the Egyptian gods, the Babylonian gods, the Greek gods, the Roman gods, which were all analogs of the same entities, right?
	Right.
	Yeah, no doubt about it.
	Okay, so let's see.
	Do you believe NASA has a lot of star childs as astronauts and rocket scientists?
	Yes.
	Could very well be.
	Could very well be.
	Yeah, I mean, again, that would be conjecture, but it makes logical sense if you want to call star childs.
	I mean, we're all star childs, you know, so I have to take issue with that particular phrase.
	But I appreciate if what someone is trying to refer to is somebody who is recently come onto the planet, a younger person, because you can obviously only be an astronaut candidate if you're young, under a certain age, then, you know, I guess because you can obviously only be an astronaut candidate if you're young, under a certain But as such, you know, in other words, it just depends what generation you're kind of talking about.
	I'm sure that, you know, the astronauts of the past thought they were star children as well.
	Well, you could ask yourself, too, one of the profiling and the profiling of astronauts or potential astronauts.
	did they look for individuals that have particular psychic skills who might be good remote viewers?
	Getting back to the Ananerba Society of the Nazi SS, they were profiling individuals within Germany.
	For those specific skills, they wanted to find people who were like the ladies of the Vril.
	They wanted to find people who were gifted at remote viewing.
	So I would think if those particular skills are valued by NASA and the astronaut training team, I could certainly see that that would be an asset for an astronaut to have.
	No doubt about it.
	In fact, there's documented evidence that the Secret Space Program recruits the best and the brightest in all aspects of the military, all aspects of the Secret Space Program, not just astronauts.
	That is a common component and a skill set that is also involved in many of the The scientists, engineers, super soldiers, etc.
	that I've interviewed, all of them have skills, would score high in those areas.
	And those are also the skills that would be valuable for higher ranks of secret societies.
	Sure.
	I mean, you know, it kind of goes without saying.
	And these are our skills that are sort of native to humans, even though we don't necessarily always acknowledge that for what it's worth.
	Someone wants you to elaborate on the Palladians.
	I'm not sure.
	That's fairly general.
	In what sense?
	Yeah, it's a bit too general, you know, because we have limited time here.
	Let me see.
	The person you should ask that is Simon Parks.
	I really enjoyed your...
	I loved your interview with Simon Parks.
	And I hope you get him on again very soon.
	But he seemed to be very knowledgeable about the Pleiadians.
	And one of the...
	One of the myths he kind of exploded is that we're all about peace and love.
	And he says, no, the Pleiadians are very skilled warriors.
	And as I understand it, they have been in conflict or battling with the reptilians and so forth for centuries.
	So it's like, yeah, that's like light and love.
	But on the other hand, it's like I think they could handle themselves pretty well in a fight.
	Absolutely.
	Well, I think whether people have read the Billy Meyer stuff very closely or not, that information is contained there.
	And I have other information in that regard as well that, you know, in essence, they are not all about necessarily love and light, although they're supposed to be sort of six-dimensional things.
	But in essence, so are we.
	It just depends which part of your being you're sort of actualizing at any given time and so on.
	So it's kind of complex.
	But let's see.
	Somebody else wants to know where Ra sits in the hierarchy.
	Hmm.
	Ra is the sun god.
	Ra is, you know, he's right up there.
	I don't know if Ra is analog to Osiris or not.
	That kind of caught me unaware on that one.
	Rai is a particular entity that would be a step down from certainly Osiris, but was also, I mean, it's too complex.
	There are too many conflicting views of Rai, I would say that much.
	It depends whether you're getting your information from the raw material, RA material.
	And so if you go there, in essence, it's a conglomerate being, a group soul.
	So, you know, it's not just one being either, but, you know, so...
	And that may be true of a lot of these so-called entities that are given one name.
	You have to keep in mind what you might actually be talking about.
	Let's see.
	What do you think magical significance is of the NASA logo, the Red Stream, etc.?
	Yeah, there's a special significance to that, to what looks like an A, but it's kind of like a slash that is in the shape of an A. Actually, if you flip it on its side, it's a 7.
	It's a magic 7.
	Okay, that's one of them, but there's also more to it.
	It has a name, and I don't know the name of what it's supposed to be.
	Do you know?
	Yeah, I knew it, but it doesn't come to me offhand here.
	Okay.
	There's a special occult significance that actually has to do with a kind of travel or a means of travel through the solar system.
	And I'm not sure.
	I forget what it is.
	You can look it up.
	I can research it.
	You could research it online and probably find the answer.
	Okay.
	I think we've been going for a while now.
	So I guess I'll sort of try to wind this down, and I think I've gotten to almost all the questions that I could see offhand.
	Is there anything else you want to add in terms of your own investigations?
	You've talked about going down the road recently with regard to the Anunnaki and also Atlantis.
	Do you want to talk a little bit more about that or of anything to do with the magicians of NASA before we close this down?
	Well, just on a personal note, I wanted to understand...
	What it is that the secret societies know?
	What do they know that the rest of us don't know?
	Because they obviously make decisions based on a body of information that the rest of us simply do not have access to.
	That's why so much of what the government does, what NASA does, just makes no sense whatsoever.
	But it makes perfect sense to them because they're coming from a totally different body of knowledge, a body of information.
	So it's like, that has kind of pushed me into a study of what the hell is the secret, what are they all about?
	What is the history of the secret societies?
	What is hermeticism?
	What is the occult?
	Trying to understand this.
	And so I've kind of looked into the history of hermeticism and so forth.
	And like I said, I got this book by Manly P. Hall, The Secret Teachings of All the Ages.
	And it's like, oh my God, I wish I had started this research 30 years ago.
	It's like so late in the game for me to try to grasp this because it is such a huge, gigantic topic.
	It's the whole history of the human race and what we're all about and what we're doing here and the hyper-dimensional energy fields that we're interacting with constantly and we're not even aware of it.
	And it's a study that you can see like the Egyptians that you started as a child.
	You began as a child to understand this incredible science.
	And it's a combination of astronomy, astrology, and alchemy.
	And it's like these things that we have really kind of lost contact with in our modern material society.
	I'm just in awe.
	I'm just, Carrie, I am just totally in awe of how brilliant the ancients were in what they understood that we are just now beginning to rediscover.
	Absolutely.
	Well, it has to do with the secrecy, and we live in a culture of secrecy that's been sort of orchestrated for quite a while now, and I think we're breaking through now because of the advent of the internet.
	We're able to talk to each other.
	We're able to do instant research.
	You can do it from your computer, as everyone knows.
	And also, you can always read books, and people were researching things back in Throughout the ages, we've had the sort of beacons of light, who've written books, etc., and sort of kept the light burning.
	But I do think we're at a time when people are really coming on board in droves and starting to recognize this fabulous knowledge.
	And that it shouldn't be hidden and that it needs to be out among the people.
	So, you know, thank you for working in that regard, Jim.
	And, you know, it's lovely to have you on the show.
	Thank you so much.
	Thank you, everyone, for listening.
	Thank you for all the good questions in the chat.
	Let's see where things go.
	They're obviously going to get your links that we all put on your bio that's on my website.
	So, again, go to Project Camelot.com.
	or ProjectHamlotPortal.com They go to the same place.
	Click on Jim Nichols.
	This interview will go onto YouTube tomorrow sometime if all things go as planned and be accessible there indefinitely.
	So thank you again for listening and we can reconvene at another point.
	Maybe we can manage to get Richard Hoagland to join us sometime in the future.
	I know people would love to hear His take, since he has spent many years investigating this, certainly it'd be lovely also to have Jordan Maxwell.
	So let's try to get something going with all of you guys.
	Yeah, and also, if our discussion this evening has interested you, I certainly invite you to...
	Read my blog, Atlantis Rising, or go watch the video, Ancient Alien Mystery, Rise of the Anunnaki, which just continues this same line of thought, you know, further down the rabbit hole.
	And I think, hopefully, it will provoke, you know, your own interest in researching these mysteries.
	Okay, thank you so much, and take it easy and good night.
	Thanks, Gary.

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